Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Aspen Education Group => Topic started by: Troll Control on July 08, 2009, 08:54:05 AM
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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previous discussion on this topic here:
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26615 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26615)
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
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For Those Requesting a Picture of TheWho (http://http://www.plaxo.com/directory/profile/60131056381/36823d1b/John/Reuben)
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TheWho's Current Business (http://http://www.vendisys.com/index.html)
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Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
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TheWho's Current Business (http://http://www.vendisys.com/index.html)
He left this job after less than a year, right after Mikey killed OD'd.
TheWho's Professional Profile (http://http://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-reuben/0/38b/2aa)
He did mention several times here that he is not good at "holding down a job" and that appears to be true. The longest he ever held a job was five years and that was twenty years ago. Since then he hasn't been able to keep a job longer than three years.
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The identity, significance, and activity of this person has been known by others on this forum for quite some time.
The actual larger circumstances and tragedy in this family is far more complex and tragic than you apparently have any clue about, maybe something you would know if this fictitious roommate you bring up were actually real.
While the circumstances certainly warrant - and would not have escaped - discussion on fornits, there is such a thing as "appropriate timing," even if for no other reason than to honor the memory of Mike Reuben, who did love his dad, btw. The kid is barely cold in the ground and already you are castrating the father.
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I understand what you are saying, but his father deserves no quarter. He has relentlessly harrassed many survivors of programs he refers children to on this site, as if the pain and torment of losing one child couldn't sate his appetite for destroying other children's lives through railroading them into the TTI. So, regardless of how people feel about his topic, it's important to understand this man and why he has spent over four years here trying to revictimize people who have suffered the same abuse as Mike did.
This really has nothing to do with Mike, it is all about this father, TheWho, who feels such strong compulsion to abuse abuse victims. What on God's earth possesses this man to spend quite literally thousands of hours over half a decade making fun of tortured and abused people here? What gives him the right to degrade survivors while he pushes more kids into the sausage grinder that tore up both of his boys and killed one of them?
I'm sorry, but in my eyes, this man is sociopath that needs to be kept away from children, not feeding them into The Machine.
TheWho should have thought about this as an eventuality rather than a slight possibility.
If pointing this out is disrespectful to Mike, how would you characterize John's behavior then?
All we can hope to do now is to honor Mike's death by preventing John's being an accessory to further abuse, torment, suffering or death.
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http://www.myspace.com/savingteens (http://www.myspace.com/savingteens)
Here's their MySpace page, run by John's sister, a partner at SavingTeens.org.
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From: John Reuben [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:16 PMTo: [email protected]
Subject: Passing Away Of My Son Michael
Friends & Associates,Many of you may have already heard about the passing of my son, Michael, this past weekend as the result of substance abuse related issues. As much as I have tried these many years, I could not help Mike escape the grip of his drugs of choice. And now I am faced with a void in my life that will be impossible to replace.Substance abuse is a horrid disease, a plague on our society. In 2004 I realized that my son had this problem and looked for a constructive way to channel my energies from worrying about my son. I formed a non-profit called Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (STICC) to help disadvantaged families with their children.
This is when TheWho's research into teen programming really began. He trolled Fornits as a way to avoid "worrying about (his) son." Somehow I doubt all of this trolling will bring any kind of resolution for TheWho.
Anyway, this is the timeline for TheWho's arrival on Fornits, which became full-blown incessant, vapid trolling soon thereafter, culminating in directly attacking a kid who was abused at HLA, a favorite program of his key associate, Martha Kolbe, who continues to refer children to the abusive teen shitpit to this day.
Personally, I wouldn't be seeking help from a man with no conscience or morals, like John. Reading his posts here make me cringe and some make me feel sick to my stomach from the rationalization of hurting kids to 'help' them.
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The identity, significance, and activity of this person has been known by others on this forum for quite some time.
The actual larger circumstances and tragedy in this family is far more complex and tragic than you apparently have any clue about, maybe something you would know if this fictitious roommate you bring up were actually real.
While the circumstances certainly warrant - and would not have escaped - discussion on fornits, there is such a thing as "appropriate timing," even if for no other reason than to honor the memory of Mike Reuben, who did love his dad, btw. The kid is barely cold in the ground and already you are castrating the father.
How did you know this? Why didn't you say something before?
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John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
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Can we just add, we don't know that this boy killed himself because he failed to get help? In all likelihood, he killed himself because he was abducted, imprisoned and tortured and brainwashed for many years. Any "normal" person would be profoundly dehabilitated by this lobotomization, deprivation and torment and whether he failed or succeeded to get help would not be the mortal wound.
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John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
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Can we just add, we don't know that this boy killed himself because he failed to get help?
No, it was his father's responsibility to get him real help. Medical and psychological help, but daddy was too busy trying to break himself into the Teen Hurt business. So he sent Mike to SUWS and ASR, both of which are abusive programs populated by staff with no education that act basically as correctional officers.
Just look at daddy's words above. He wanted to forget about his son's problems, not get involved with them. So he sent him to a behavior mod facility instead of a treatment center or outpatient center. Believe me, TheWho is all about himself and nobody else. Here, look at this shamelss plug and product placement. Plugging SavingTeens.org on an orthodics website?
TheWho's shameless plug (http://http://www.correlsense.com)
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The identity, significance, and activity of this person has been known by others on this forum for quite some time.
The actual larger circumstances and tragedy in this family is far more complex and tragic than you apparently have any clue about, maybe something you would know if this fictitious roommate you bring up were actually real.
While the circumstances certainly warrant - and would not have escaped - discussion on fornits, there is such a thing as "appropriate timing," even if for no other reason than to honor the memory of Mike Reuben, who did love his dad, btw. The kid is barely cold in the ground and already you are castrating the father.
I think pounding his fist again and again while shouting a dozen times at RB to "Post Mike's obit, then!" was a fine opening and the appropriate timing, IMO. It's not my fault that he didn't like what he asked for after he got it.
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John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
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Can we just add, we don't know that this boy killed himself because he failed to get help?
No, it was his father's responsibility to get him real help. Medical and psychological help, but daddy was too busy trying to break himself into the Teen Hurt business. So he sent Mike to SUWS and ASR, both of which are abusive programs populated by staff with no education that act basically as correctional officers.
Just look at daddy's words above. He wanted to forget about his son's problems, not get involved with them. So he sent him to a behavior mod facility instead of a treatment center or outpatient center. Believe me, TheWho is all about himself and nobody else. Here, look at this shamelss plug and product placement. Plugging SavingTeens.org on an orthodics website?
TheWho's shameless plug (http://http://www.correlsense.com)
I see your point. Yes, it makes sense to get medical help, not quack help.
I am saying that deaths post-program are usually caused by the after effects of torture, and long term imprisonment, not because of a past failure of appropriate psychological intervention. With the exception of medication to control hallucinations, psychiatry is not as effective in helping people as people think. It's friends, life opportunities, leaving an abusive house, etc, that "helps" "troubled" teens, and people in general. Studies show, actually, that psychiatry is pretty ineffective, in general
I am also saying that "quackery" and medical help are not as diametrically opposed as you think. Some of us, me for example, were referred to torture chambers by psychiatrists, and a lot of these places have educated (though insufficiently educated) “therapists” on board. Having "qualified" people on board is no indication that a program is not a torture chambers. The torture (behavior modification) simply continues around them,(without their knowledge, or with their knowledge, but not censure) or they over see it in an "official capacity."
I don't thinkp arents should feel that they need to "act now" and get “medical help” when their son starts skipping school or whatever lest their kid wdie. That is the unintentional suggestion if we say because Thewho failed to get his son psychiatric intervention, thewho's son died. :peace:
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John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
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Can we just add, we don't know that this boy killed himself because he failed to get help?
No, it was his father's responsibility to get him real help. Medical and psychological help, but daddy was too busy trying to break himself into the Teen Hurt business. So he sent Mike to SUWS and ASR, both of which are abusive programs populated by staff with no education that act basically as correctional officers.
Just look at daddy's words above. He wanted to forget about his son's problems, not get involved with them. So he sent him to a behavior mod facility instead of a treatment center or outpatient center. Believe me, TheWho is all about himself and nobody else. Here, look at this shamelss plug and product placement. Plugging SavingTeens.org on an orthodics website?
TheWho's shameless plug (http://http://www.correlsense.com)
Sorry! The above link points to Whooter's employer.
Here's the shameless plug I was referring to. (http://http://www.bostonpedorthic.com/satisfied_running.asp)
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....TheWho, who feels such strong compulsion to abuse abuse victims.
Many of you know one of the top issues I have with the posters here was their definition of abuse. Many say they were abused by a program. But, you claim that my arguments and questioning is abusive to you. This is why we question whether or not you were abused in the program because you don’t understand what abuse is. By your own definition I have suffered more abuse than any of you, through the name calling and harassment, continual attempts to find out who I am etc. So by “Your” definition since I am here and still posting I am a survivor. But I don’t consider it abuse I consider it debate/ argument, but being the opportunists that many can be you like to feel if you lose an argument then you must have been abused. RobertBruce is a prime example. He feels I have abused him here. So when he turns around and says he was abused in a program what are we to think? That he lost an argument to a staff member? Someone called him on a lie?
You are doing a big disservice to children who actually do suffer child abuse throughout this country by redefining it the way you do and watering down its impact.
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....TheWho, who feels such strong compulsion to abuse abuse victims.
Many of you know one of the top issues I have with the posters here was their definition of abuse. Many say they were abused by a program. But, you claim that my arguments and questioning is abusive to you. This is why we question whether or not you were abused in the program because you don’t understand what abuse is. By your own definition I have suffered more abuse than any of you, through the name calling and harassment, continual attempts to find out who I am etc. So by “Your” definition since I am here and still posting I am a survivor. But I don’t consider it abuse I consider it debate/ argument, but being the opportunists that many can be you like to feel if you lose an argument then you must have been abused. RobertBruce is a prime example. He feels I have abused him here. So when he turns around and says he was abused in a program what are we to think? That he lost an argument to a staff member? Someone called him on a lie?
You are doing a big disservice to children who actually do suffer child abuse throughout this country by redefining it the way you do and watering down its impact.
Log in, shitbag. And cut the sanctimonius bullshit. Your legacy is cemented. And I'm going to distribute your "work" to everyone who associates with you and your business.
You're a survivor? You're the fucking cause.
Are you forgetting the obvious glee you have gotten from taunting people here who have been through abusive programs? Are you forgetting that you tried to publish RobertBruce's true identity and items from his alleged 'treatment plan'? You are a disgusting piece of garbage. You can't polish that shitpile, Whooter.
I warned you several times not to open the can clearly marked "Do Not Open," but in your smug arrogance you opened up that can on yourself. Now you will take responsibility and deal with the fallout. Nobody will ever Google "John Reuben" or your child abbatoir 'STICC' again without seeing how hard you worked on degrading and debasing abused children. Every time someone does a search on you they will see you here calling children 'dog fuckers' and accusing them of having 'gay issues.' Tough luck, lightweight. Fuck with the bull and you get the horns.
Personally, I'd like to bash your fucking face in, but this will have to do.
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I warned you several times not to open the can clearly marked "Do Not Open," but in your smug arrogance you opened up that can on yourself. Now you will take responsibility and deal with the fallout.
What exactly does this mean? How is that some people "knew" thewho's identity?
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I'm only speaking for myself. I told this guy several times not to trifle with me, but he did it anyway.
Apparently some people here either knew or suspected "who" he was but lacked the testicular fortitude to buck up. I do not suffer from that shortcoming.
John David Reuben posted for nearly five years here, mostly anonymously, taunting and degrading people who suffered at the hands of people just like him.
People like John David Reuben, a.k.a. TheWho, believe children are commodities and any business that can raise its earned value added assessment by exploiting their vulnerability for financial gain is a good business. For people like John, children have no rights and no say.
To add insult to injury, he then claims to be a "survivor" because people loathe him here and told him so, as if he had no choice but to stay and take it.
He could have left by his own volition at any time to stop whatever discomfort he may have felt (which I suspect is none anyway; he got off on it), a luxury not afforded to privately incarcerated children like his sons, Mike (RIP) and Max, whom were both forced into programs against their will and forced to stay there until they turned 18 or until daddy gave their jailers the OK to cut them loose.
Therein is the crux of the argument. He railroads children into virtual private kiddie jails where they have no choice but to cope with the abuse and neglect, but poor little Johnny paints himself as a victim here, like a fucking impotent crybaby.
This is a man who doesn't deserve to have children in the first place. And I'm going to spend every minute of my spare time educating anyone who will listen about what a twisted little psychopath this scrawny little bastard is.
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Here's a fine example of debate/argument from the deviant:
"Re: Just Because I Don't Know What It Is, Doesn't Mean I'm Lying
by Guest » Fri May 01, 2009 10:57 pm
I am not suppose to say this but personally I would recommend Calgary, at this time, because the kids get a little more one on one attention there. AARC is at capacity right now and has just lost a key staff person. Their quality hasn’t suffered but Calgary can offer more attention at this time until Alberta can get new people in."
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27459&p=331467#p331467 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27459&p=331467#p331467)
He's taken the time to pretend to be somebody he's not, and can't even learn a few basic facts before he unleashes his incompetently prepared scheme. AARC has only one facility, it's in Calgary, a city within the Province of Alberta. But this intellectual giant, striving to help us all gain a higher level of undertanding, didn't know any of that before he shit the bed.
Like I said, shuffle off to the drawing room, and take a long look down the business end of a revolver. The world will be a better place for it.
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Log in, shitbag. And cut the sanctimonius bullshit. Your legacy is cemented. And I'm going to distribute your "work" to everyone who associates with you and your business.
You want me to log-in, “Guest”. Kind funny coming from the shadows. At least you know who I am.
You're a survivor? You're the fucking cause.
By your definition, yes I am. So is it okay to make fun of me. Think about it. Is it okay to taunt me? Threaten to expose me? My family? Is that abuse or not? I think that is the issue.
Are you forgetting the obvious glee you have gotten from taunting people here who have been through abusive programs?
I guess I must have. Why not update all of us.
Are you forgetting that you tried to publish RobertBruce's true identity and items from his alleged 'treatment plan'? You are a disgusting piece of garbage. You can't polish that shitpile, Whooter.
I believe it was Zen Agent who was an admin here who was publishing peoples identities. You may want to check on that. Seems I am taking the rap for alot here are you trying to clean the closet?. I would be pissed too if people were trying to reveal my personal stuff!! Oh wait they are doing it now!!!!
I warned you several times not to open the can clearly marked "Do Not Open," but in your smug arrogance you opened up that can on yourself.
{Link placeholder} I dont recall receiving any warnings. I think that may be the advantage of having a login name, I dont have a PM account. You must have sent them to someone else.
Now you will take responsibility and deal with the fallout.
Finally you get to the meat of the issue. You want me to take responsibility for what? For debating you? For calling you on your bullshit definition of abuse? Be more specific. What do you want someone else to take responsibility for?
Nobody will ever Google "John Reuben" or your child abbatoir 'STICC' again without seeing how hard you worked on degrading and debasing abused children.
All my kids are doing fine, thank you. I am not this guy John Reuben. But I think this has been a good demonstration of mob mentality. You are ready to take out the whole family. ... put your torches and pitch forks away before RobertBruce sends out another one of his NAMBLA brochures Ha,Ha,Ha,
Every time someone does a search on you they will see you here calling children 'dog fuckers' and accusing them of having 'gay issues.'
Those that have seen me post, know I don’t call people “dog fuckers” and Bruce is the one who brings up the “Gay” comments. You should go back and read it again. Most of that stuff comes from your end.
Tough luck, lightweight. Fuck with the bull and you get the horns.
Unless I am the one playing the part of the Bull, Then it is defined as abuse? Are you starting to see my point?
Personally, I'd like to bash your fucking face in, but this will have to do.
Whoa, I have never been that harsh on any of you. I am surprised you still don’t see the double standard. So abuse is okay as long as “you” are the one dishing it out. Interesting point of view.
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What was your point here?
"Re: Just Because I Don't Know What It Is, Doesn't Mean I'm Lying
by Guest » Fri May 01, 2009 10:57 pm
I am not suppose to say this but personally I would recommend Calgary, at this time, because the kids get a little more one on one attention there. AARC is at capacity right now and has just lost a key staff person. Their quality hasn’t suffered but Calgary can offer more attention at this time until Alberta can get new people in."
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27459&p=331467#p331467
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What was your point here?
"Re: Just Because I Don't Know What It Is, Doesn't Mean I'm Lying
by Guest » Fri May 01, 2009 10:57 pm
I am not suppose to say this but personally I would recommend Calgary, at this time, because the kids get a little more one on one attention there. AARC is at capacity right now and has just lost a key staff person. Their quality hasn’t suffered but Calgary can offer more attention at this time until Alberta can get new people in."
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27459&p=331467#p331467
Who knows? Its a guest post. Let me ask you, why would a person's wifes' weight issue have anything to do with AARC? I have seen you post such bazaar stuff like that and it doesnt even relate to the argument. It is just strange. I have read posts from you about Vauses son playing hockey. How could that possibly relate to how AARC is run whether he played hockey or joined the service or played piano. Would AARC be a better place in your mind if his child played football? Just weird, brother. So get things straight in your own head before trying to figure out why other people post what they do.
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You posted that. So what was the point? You're lying again too. I have never made reference to Dean Vause's son. Ever.
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You posted that. So what was the point? You're lying again too. I have never made reference to Dean Vause's son. Ever.
Lying again too..meaning also. So you admit that you lied.
What was the point of bringing up someones wifes weight issues? If her weight changed would that make AARC a better place. I didnt catch the relationship there.
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You made this post:
"Re: Just Because I Don't Know What It Is, Doesn't Mean I'm Lying
by Guest » Fri May 01, 2009 10:57 pm
I am not suppose to say this but personally I would recommend Calgary, at this time, because the kids get a little more one on one attention there. AARC is at capacity right now and has just lost a key staff person. Their quality hasn’t suffered but Calgary can offer more attention at this time until Alberta can get new people in."
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27459&p=331467#p331467
Why?
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Oh, this is rich. Not only are you "this John Reuben guy" you have now seen how it feels to be corned and held to account.
I hope you've learned a valuable lesson here, John. This is a stain on your reputation that won't fade.
No matter how you try to rationalize, you've behaved like a petulant child here, smug and secure you could get away with it in your anonymity. Sadly, for you, your bubble has burst. Now deal with the consequences like man, chicken-neck.
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Oh, this is rich. Not only are you "this John Reuben guy" you have now seen how it feels to be corned and held to account.
I hope you've learned a valuable lesson here, John. This is a stain on your reputation that won't fade.
No matter how you try to rationalize, you've behaved like a petulant child here, smug and secure you could get away with it in your anonymity. Sadly, for you, your bubble has burst. Now deal with the consequences like man, chicken-neck.
What are you talking about? We are "all" anonymous here. In case you havent noticed you posted as a guest!! Ha,Ha,Ha Are you going to post your name and number now to try to prove a point? Ha,Ha,Ha
If you feel I am this guy "Reuben" and it makes you feel good then go for it. People were happy when I was Alan Newman and Peter Dunbar also. But aside from all of that it is important to keep the discussion going. A big point was that there are posters and readers who feel I have been abusive with my posts, yet they feel justified returning the same language torwards me. This has always made me curious on how many here define abuse differently and have found that it is an individual definition here.
One person would define it as being called a liar on the internet while another may see it as being forced to do their homework, build a stone wall or placed in isolation (confined to their room)
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"Re: Just Because I Don't Know What It Is, Doesn't Mean I'm Lying
by Guest » Fri May 01, 2009 10:57 pm
I am not suppose to say this but personally I would recommend Calgary, at this time, because the kids get a little more one on one attention there. AARC is at capacity right now and has just lost a key staff person. Their quality hasn’t suffered but Calgary can offer more attention at this time until Alberta can get new people in."
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27459&p=331467#p331467
Why did you make that post?
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"Re: Just Because I Don't Know What It Is, Doesn't Mean I'm Lying
by Guest » Fri May 01, 2009 10:57 pm
I am not suppose to say this but personally I would recommend Calgary, at this time, because the kids get a little more one on one attention there. AARC is at capacity right now and has just lost a key staff person. Their quality hasn’t suffered but Calgary can offer more attention at this time until Alberta can get new people in."
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27459&p=331467#p331467
Why did you make that post?
Go back and read my response. Maybe you missed it. I had a question or two for you.
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Why did you make that post?
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Why did you make that post?
Go back and read my response. Maybe you missed it. I had a question or two for you also that you skipped over.
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You made this post.
"Re: Just Because I Don't Know What It Is, Doesn't Mean I'm Lying
by Guest » Fri May 01, 2009 10:57 pm
I am not suppose to say this but personally I would recommend Calgary, at this time, because the kids get a little more one on one attention there. AARC is at capacity right now and has just lost a key staff person. Their quality hasn’t suffered but Calgary can offer more attention at this time until Alberta can get new people in."
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27459&p=331467#p331467
It is a deliberate attempt at deceit. So why did you do that?
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You made this post.
"Re: Just Because I Don't Know What It Is, Doesn't Mean I'm Lying
by Guest » Fri May 01, 2009 10:57 pm
I am not suppose to say this but personally I would recommend Calgary, at this time, because the kids get a little more one on one attention there. AARC is at capacity right now and has just lost a key staff person. Their quality hasn’t suffered but Calgary can offer more attention at this time until Alberta can get new people in."
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27459&p=331467#p331467
It is a deliberate attempt at deceit. So why did you do that?
Go back and read my response. Maybe you missed it. I had a question or two for you also that you skipped over.
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I read your response. You have not offered any explanation as to why you would post something so bizarre and deliberately deceitful. The question you asked, you've asked many times in the past, in order to divert attention away from whatever specific issue is being discussed. The question was never legitimate, because you already knew the answer. The specific instance to which you repeatedly referred was when I postulated that Judge Cooke-Stanhope's obesity was reflective of mental instablity. Since the original statement outlayed her relationship to AARC and the context in which I referred to her obesity, you didn't have a real question.
Which brings us back to why you made that completely deceitful post. Why did you do that?
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First this:
You want me to log-in, “Guest”. Kind funny coming from the shadows. At least you know who I am.
Then this:
I am not this guy John Reuben.
Now, if you had the guts to log in, John, you could have edited this post as is your normal custom. So, here we have an admission from John that he is TheWho, but then a very weak denial. In the same post, no less.
John, how many kids can you really be 'helping' when you're busy here all the time? You've got easily over 8000 posts. This is pretty much all you do.
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First this:
You want me to log-in, “Guest”. Kind funny coming from the shadows. At least you know who I am.
Then this:
I am not this guy John Reuben.
Masterful! I suppose everyone does indeed know "Who" you are now, John. Nice to meet you!
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You made this post.
"Re: Just Because I Don't Know What It Is, Doesn't Mean I'm Lying
by Guest » Fri May 01, 2009 10:57 pm
I am not suppose to say this but personally I would recommend Calgary, at this time, because the kids get a little more one on one attention there. AARC is at capacity right now and has just lost a key staff person. Their quality hasn’t suffered but Calgary can offer more attention at this time until Alberta can get new people in."
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=27459&p=331467#p331467
It is a deliberate attempt at deceit. So why did you do that?
It's because, Ajax, he is a big, fat, lying phony.
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He doesn't look fat in his picture, but he sure is a lying phony. I am curious to know whether he was trying to derail discussions about AARC because AARC has recently been exposed publicly as a fraud and the dismantling of AARC posed a threat to the public perception of his own personal scam, or if it was done simply because, as a sociopath, he enjoys manipulating people.
I'm still a strong advocate for theWho to do the honorable thing and cast himself into the great unknown, but failing that, I hope his behaviour with regard to this forum spills into the rest of his life.
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First this:
You want me to log-in, “Guest”. Kind funny coming from the shadows. At least you know who I am.
Then this:
I am not this guy John Reuben.
Masterful! I suppose everyone does indeed know "Who" you are now, John. Nice to meet you!
I can see why your recent career path didnt work put for you. You are not very good at reading people or their comments. You should continue to search for your strength and persue that path, DJ.
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Lols. I've been with the same firm for thirteen years, my friend. Once more, your MTBF (mean time between failures), was what? Two years? Tisk, tisk. You shouldn't be pointing fingers, should you? :beat: :agree: Try to relax, will ya? You had a bad few weeks here and should slow down a tad.
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Tisk, Tisk....Seems our friend DJ has some honesty issue he needs to work on. So you have been at the same job for 13 years? So which is it? Still in the business or retired. either answer and you lied Dysfunction Junction
Guest wrote:
Believe it or not the above poster (Dysfunction Junction) claims to be a mental health professional himself. If this is true imagine how many patients walk out the door after hearing his thrashing and foul language everytime you question his opinion or hold a different point of view. He has very little tolerance for debate or open minded discussions. I wouldnt let this guy near my kid let alone allow him to be in a room alone with him/her giving advice to them.
This is why it is always important (along with credentials) to listen to your gut feel about people especially where your children are concerned.
[/i]
Nah, I'm retired from that business.
[/i]
Original Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=335461&sid=0604143b4a16cbf36498591e063a3682&sid=0604143b4a16cbf36498591e063a3682#p335461)
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Can you smell the desperation? This guy is too much! Dude, I'm not kidding, you're frayed. Take a week off. Go do something away from the computer.
I "retired" from the TBS/RTC business, John. I think you've just gotten lazy. Don't you know anyone who left one type of job for another? I guess nobody has ever changed jobs before? Oh....wait. Yes. You have changed jobs every two years for your entire adult life. Not a very good record, John.
Seriously, man, take a break. I like the old Whooter, the one that actually tried to argue over legitimate topics. What'd you do with that guy? The NewWho is the lamest of trolls. I guess when we know who you are it takes some of the fun out of it. :heartbreak:
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Can you smell the desperation? This guy is too much! Dude, I'm not kidding, you're frayed. Take a week off. Go do something away from the computer.
I "retired" from the TBS/RTC business, John. I think you've just gotten lazy. Don't you know anyone who left one type of job for another? I guess nobody has ever changed jobs before? Oh....wait. Yes. You have changed jobs every two years for your entire adult life. Not a very good record, John.
Seriously, man, take a break. I like the old Whooter, the one that actually tried to argue over legitimate topics. What'd you do with that guy? The NewWho is the lamest of trolls. I guess when we know who you are it takes some of the fun out of it. :heartbreak:
nice try ... "...claims to be a mental health professional himself"... and you stated ....I'm retired from that business.. So what you are saying is you are no longer a mental health professional?
If this is true you have been lying to all of us. If it is not true then you have lied still.
Can everyone see what he is doing?
Visual (http://http://scottjberry.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/backpedaling3.jpg)
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You are so desperate to shift the focus, John, and I don't blame you. These past weeks under the microscope have really taken a toll on you. It's not pretty to look at. Go for a run or something. Go outside. Come back when you're fresh. G'nite, sport!
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You are so desperate to shift the focus, John, and I don't blame you. These past weeks under the microscope have really taken a toll on you. It's not pretty to look at. Go for a run or something. Go outside. Come back when you're fresh. G'nite, sport!
Ha,Ha,Ha Sting!! DJ you step in it every time. Facts just seem to be your down fall. You cant have it both ways. If you want to post that your a mental health professional then you need to stand by that. You cant be a professional one day and not one the next. (well in your case maybe).
Hopefully tomorrow will be a better day for you.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
Original topic for most recent readers.
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Thank you.
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He feels I have abused him here. So when he turns around and says he was abused in a program what are we to think? That he lost an argument to a staff member? Someone called him on a lie?
HAHAHAHAHAHAH.
Peter I have never claimed you abused me, nor do I feel you have. The obvious reason being you arent capable of it sport, you're just too pathetic. I don't deny that I've abused you, but you deserve it and it's funny so I'm okay with it. To answer your other questions regarding my time in HLA, no I never lost an argument with a staff member, in fact I was given a work assignment once for winning one. Nor did any staff member ever catch me in a lie. Looks like you have something in common with them Pete.
Now whether I'm right and you're Peter Dunbar, or Elvis is right and you're John Reuben, both individuals seem to be horrible people. Again, I can understand why their sons killed themselves. Afterall who would want a life spent with you?
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For Those Requesting a Picture of TheWho (http://http://www.plaxo.com/directory/profile/60131056381/36823d1b/John/Reuben)
Well this guy certianly does like a raging dooche. Any pictures of Peter found yet?
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Robert Bruce you are arguing off topic with Pete in the wrong forum. Slap that pig around elsewhere.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
Original topic for most recent readers.
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I believe it was Zen Agent who was an admin here who was publishing peoples identities. You may want to check on that. Seems I am taking the rap for alot here are you trying to clean the closet?. I would be pissed too if people were trying to reveal my personal stuff!! Oh wait they are doing it now!!!!
Reconsider this comment very, very carefully Peter. You have a very limited time to both link up your posts, and retract and apologize for this comment. If you don't more and more secrets are going to come to light all proving you to be an unmitigated liar. Funny how PM's can't be edited isn't it?
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
Original topic for most recent readers.
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I believe it was Zen Agent who was an admin here who was publishing peoples identities. You may want to check on that. Seems I am taking the rap for alot here are you trying to clean the closet?. I would be pissed too if people were trying to reveal my personal stuff!! Oh wait they are doing it now!!!!
Reconsider this comment very, very carefully Peter. You have a very limited time to both link up your posts, and retract and apologize for this comment. If you don't more and more secrets are going to come to light all proving you to be an unmitigated liar. Funny how PM's can't be edited isn't it?
Tick,Tick,Tick I guess PM's can be edited. Never thought about it. So what your saying is any PM which is posted out on the forum can be changed to say what ever the person wants it to say.. in other words they cannot be a very reliable source of information. I guess I can see your point.
I dont post PM's on the open forum anyway otherwise they would not be "Private Messages"
still pedalling?
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I will, and I don't need to edit them. You can claim I have after I post it, but who' going to believe you at this point Pete. There really isnt anything you can say or do to surprise people, save acting like a human being. You have no credibility on here Pete.
While you're deciding what to do show the post where you gave Psy permission to link up all your guest posts. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
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I will, and I don't need to edit them. You can claim I have after I post it, but who' going to believe you at this point Pete. There really isnt anything you can say or do to surprise people, save acting like a human being. You have no credibility on here Pete.
While you're deciding what to do show the post where you gave Psy permission to link up all your guest posts. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
Of course!! If they have been altered I will point out the errors. The important thing is that we are all enjoying ourselves. Once you start taking this too seriously like you have in the past it becomes unhealthy for you, like when Function Junction was posting.
I dont expect to be let off the hook for anything. But you should not expect others to do what you dont want to do yourself. You should have learned this earlier but in some people it takes longer.
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Wait...your kid is dead and you come here for enjoyment? I just want to get that straight.
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Wait...your kid is dead and you come here for enjoyment? I just want to get that straight.
Nah, My kids are doing well. My daughter graduated from ASR and has moved on with her life and she is on a good path. Collecting names of dead people is very strange enjoyment for some people. But if it makes then happy then they should persue that path, although it doesnt seem too healthy to me.
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Wait...your kid is dead and you come here for enjoyment? I just want to get that straight.
Nah, My kids are doing well. My daughter graduated from ASR and has moved on with her life and she is on a good path. Collecting names of dead people is very strange enjoyment for some people. But if it makes then happy then they should persue that path, although it doesnt seem too healthy to me.
:roflmao: Ficticious daughter graduates her pwogwam. :beat:
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Wait...your kid is dead and you come here for enjoyment? I just want to get that straight.
Nah, My kids are doing well. My daughter graduated from ASR and has moved on with her life and she is on a good path. Collecting names of dead people is very strange enjoyment for some people. But if it makes then happy then they should persue that path, although it doesnt seem too healthy to me.
:roflmao: Ficticious daughter graduates her pwogwam. :beat:
Ficticiously dead kid's dad gets NAMBLA package. Classic
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Wait...your kid is dead and you come here for enjoyment? I just want to get that straight.
Nah, My kids are doing well. My daughter graduated from ASR and has moved on with her life and she is on a good path. Collecting names of dead people is very strange enjoyment for some people. But if it makes then happy then they should persue that path, although it doesnt seem too healthy to me.
:roflmao: Ficticious daughter graduates her pwogwam. :beat:
Ficticiously dead kid's dad gets NAMBLA package. Classic
You sent NAMBLA packages to kids, Whootie? You're SICK!
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You sent NAMBLA packages to kids, Whootie? You're SICK!
Great interpretation ! Next, I guess you will try to convince everyone that you were abused in a program !!! Keep that credibility up there Ha,Ha,Ha
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
Please stay on topic.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
Please stay on topic.
Is there any evidence that this I.D. is accurate?
Not saying it's not. It definitely fits, as does theit's response. But, help us out here, provide some evidence b4 we start distributing this ID to it's contacts, or waxing philosophic on how its situation contributes to it's insane behavior. Not 5 minutes ago the word was this person was Peter Dunbar.
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oh why let facts stop us! it hasn't before! lets smear every ASR parent in Massachusetts!
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It is impossible to "smear" an ASR parent as anyone stupid enough to send a child to ASR deserves whatever they get.
If there is a full list of ASR parents floating around somewhere, it should be posted.
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right. ALL program parents are evil. even michele suttons. who cares who they are just post the addresses and RobertBruce can send more NAMBLA packages. What a team!
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
Please stay on topic.
Is there any evidence that this I.D. is accurate?
Not saying it's not. It definitely fits, as does theit's response. But, help us out here, provide some evidence b4 we start distributing this ID to it's contacts, or waxing philosophic on how its situation contributes to it's insane behavior. Not 5 minutes ago the word was this person was Peter Dunbar.
This post doesn't try to "ID" anyone it seems. It looks like it's just calling attention to John Reuben and his merry band of child abusers (Lon Woodbury, Leslie Goldberg, et al). I don't see anywhere in this post where it says "TheWho is John Reuben." What it does say is that John Reuben, instead of helping his sons, sent them to kiddie jails to be warehoused and only one survived the experience. It also says that he refers to the same programs that devastaed his own family, which is is pathological IMO.
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This post doesn't try to "ID" anyone it seems. It looks like it's just calling attention to John Reuben and his merry band of child abusers (Lon Woodbury, Leslie Goldberg, et al). I don't see anywhere in this post where it says "TheWho is John Reuben." What it does say is that John Reuben, instead of helping his sons, sent them to kiddie jails to be warehoused and only one survived the experience. It also says that he refers to the same programs that devastaed his own family, which is is pathological IMO.
Good point, Guest. Just a few added thoughts:
I would also submit that most parents would naturally be inclined to refer other kids to programs once they see the effect it has on their family and child. Many of the posters here are kids who didn’t do well in programs and therefore see the system as evil. Talk to any kid who dropped out of highschool and get "his" opinion of school and then talk to a kid who graduated,moved onto college and compare opinions.... same school system.. vastly different opinions.
The childs suicide that you speak of ,I would gather, is unrelated to the program that he/she attended otherwise the parents would not be still supporting the program. Maybe the kid just broke up with his girlfriend or found out some bad news or was recently diagnosed with depression. I am sure the parents, family and friends are a little closer than we are to what lead up to his death.
I do understand why you jump quickly to blame the programs, but the truth is we don’t know. Only those close to him do.
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This I don't buy. True-blue died-in-the-wool program parents like yourself are uniquely able to discard science and reality simultaneously. Only real dumb-fuck would send a second kid to a program after the first one was killed by it. But you dumbasses do exactly that.
It's like when a kid puts a nickel in the gumball machine and nothing comes out and then the kid does it again expecting a better result, only to lose another nickel.
Only with you, you put a live kid in, get a dead one back and then put another one in expecting a better outcome. Play with fire and you get burned.
Unfortunately for parents like you no amount of dead kids is enough. You just keep dropping them in the hopper expecting you won't see sausage coming out the back end. It's terribly sad, really.
As for Reuben's kid, his friends say that if he had proper treatment instead of kiddie lockup, this wouldn't have happened. They say he turned harder drugs because of the damage done to him at ASR and neglect by his father.
RIP, Mike. Dad let you down, but your friends lift you up...
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This I don't buy. True-blue died-in-the-wool program parents like yourself are uniquely able to discard science and reality simultaneously. Only real dumb-fuck would send a second kid to a program after the first one was killed by it. But you dumbasses do exactly that.
It's like when a kid puts a nickel in the gumball machine and nothing comes out and then the kid does it again expecting a better result, only to lose another nickel.
Only with you, you put a live kid in, get a dead one back and then put another one in expecting a better outcome. Play with fire and you get burned.
Unfortunately for parents like you no amount of dead kids is enough. You just keep dropping them in the hopper expecting you won't see sausage coming out the back end. It's terribly sad, really.
Really, so your logic concludes that every kid who enters a program comes out and kills themselves. Hmmm. And who is the stupid one? What are we all ghosts here?
As for Reuben's kid, his friends say that if he had proper treatment instead of kiddie lockup, this wouldn't have happened. They say he turned harder drugs because of the damage done to him at ASR and neglect by his father.
RIP, Mike. Dad let you down, but your friends lift you up...
Actually, his friends and family worked together and tried to help him as well as ASR and they couldn’t. He had a very tight support system and he loved his family very much as they did him.
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Truth be told, his dad says that he wanted to "forget about Mike's drug problems" so he founded STICC to help other kids. Plain and simple English. "I saw my son in deep trouble, so I turned away so as not to have to look at it." His friends, yes, they tried to help. His dad did not. Don't take my word for it, just read his dad's postings on various sites and advertisements. He's the one who said he turned to other kids when his was drowning. John David Reuben is a scumbag and neglected his son when he needed his dad the most.
Then he used paid obits across the country to elicit donations to STICC. Who the fuck would use his own child's obit as an ad for the services that killed the boy? Only a money-grubbing attention whore like John David Reuben.
Not to mention he shoved his other kid in a program too. But that's another story.
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Truth be told, his dad says that he wanted to "forget about Mike's drug problems" so he founded STICC to help other kids. Plain and simple English. "I saw my son in deep trouble, so I turned away so as not to have to look at it." His friends, yes, they tried to help. His dad did not. Don't take my word for it, just read his dad's postings on various sites and advertisements. He's the one who said he turned to other kids when his was drowning. John David Reuben is a scumbag and neglected his son when he needed his dad the most.
Then he used paid obits across the country to elicit donations to STICC. Who the fuck would use his own child's obit as an ad for the services that killed the boy? Only a money-grubbing attention whore like John David Reuben.
Not to mention he shoved his other kid in a program too. But that's another story.
It's a story worth telling. One that ought to be known.
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Truth be told, his dad says that he wanted to "forget about Mike's drug problems" so he founded STICC to help other kids. Plain and simple English. "I saw my son in deep trouble, so I turned away so as not to have to look at it." His friends, yes, they tried to help. His dad did not. Don't take my word for it, just read his dad's postings on various sites and advertisements. He's the one who said he turned to other kids when his was drowning. John David Reuben is a scumbag and neglected his son when he needed his dad the most.
Then he used paid obits across the country to elicit donations to STICC. Who the fuck would use his own child's obit as an ad for the services that killed the boy? Only a money-grubbing attention whore like John David Reuben.
Not to mention he shoved his other kid in a program too. But that's another story.
It's a story worth telling. One that ought to be known.
Please share.
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When he saw how much money was coming in from the publishing of his sons obit he immediately enrolled his second son in the hopes he would follow in his brothers footsteps. The logic was if he lost one son to the industry think about how much he could make by losing two sons. Plus he wouldn’t have any college payments.
More detail and posts from various roommates will be posted here soon. I have to run out for awhile.
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Truth be told, his dad says that he wanted to "forget about Mike's drug problems" so he founded STICC to help other kids. Plain and simple English. "I saw my son in deep trouble, so I turned away so as not to have to look at it." His friends, yes, they tried to help. His dad did not. Don't take my word for it, just read his dad's postings on various sites and advertisements. He's the one who said he turned to other kids when his was drowning. John David Reuben is a scumbag and neglected his son when he needed his dad the most.
Then he used paid obits across the country to elicit donations to STICC. Who the fuck would use his own child's obit as an ad for the services that killed the boy? Only a money-grubbing attention whore like John David Reuben.
Not to mention he shoved his other kid in a program too. But that's another story.
To tell you the truth, you don't really know. But who would use some child's obit as a means for revenge against someone you think might be this man? You'd step on anyone to reach that goal. How many survivors have you stepped on while posting here?
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Survivors? None. Just you (TheWho). I'd step right on your neck if I could. BTW, what killed your wife? Don't tell me you put her into SUWS and ASR, too? Or did she off herself to escape you? Maybe you snuffed her? Do tell, please.
You demanded for two days that we post Mike's obit. Now that it's posted you get mad? Pick a position, son.
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When he saw how much money was coming in from the publishing of his sons obit he immediately enrolled his second son in the hopes he would follow in his brothers footsteps. The logic was if he lost one son to the industry think about how much he could make by losing two sons. Plus he wouldn’t have any college payments.
More detail and posts from various roommates will be posted here soon. I have to run out for awhile.
What a poser. Michael Reuben just died a few months ago. Read the obituary. He was 22. His brother is probably in college by now. You need to run along and actually do your research.
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Survivors? None. Just you (TheWho). I'd step right on your neck if I could. BTW, what killed your wife? Don't tell me you put her into SUWS and ASR, too? Or did she off herself to escape you? Maybe you snuffed her? Do tell, please.
She was too old for SUWS or ASR. There is a program called ARHW (At Risk House Wives). Which is an Aspen beta overseas project for women struggling with household issues. Women who are at-risk of filling for divorce can be enrolled in Bahrain where they start out in an orange burka and move through various stages until they finally get to call home when they are about half way thru the program. This usually takes 8-12 years before they get their first phone call.
Her peer group counselor just called to tell me that she dropped down a level so I wont be hearing for awhile.
You demanded for two days that we post Mike's obit. Now that it's posted you get mad? Pick a position, son.
Thanks, that is the first I have actually had time to read it.
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When he saw how much money was coming in from the publishing of his sons obit he immediately enrolled his second son in the hopes he would follow in his brothers footsteps. The logic was if he lost one son to the industry think about how much he could make by losing two sons. Plus he wouldn’t have any college payments.
More detail and posts from various roommates will be posted here soon. I have to run out for awhile.
What a poser. Michael Reuben just died a few months ago. Read the obituary. He was 22. His brother is probably in college by now. You need to run along and actually do your research.
^^TheWho quoting TheWho^^^. Why do you talk to the voices in yer head, John? Why would you make a joke about your son's passing like this, John? You disrespect him more now that he's dead than you did while he was alive, John. Why would a father joke about his dead son, John?
"Poser"? I can tell you never spent time with your sons. If you had you would have known that nobody has used the word "poser" since the 80's. 0/10 on trolling. 10/10 for post mortem disrespect.
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Survivors? None. Just you (TheWho). I'd step right on your neck if I could. BTW, what killed your wife? Don't tell me you put her into SUWS and ASR, too? Or did she off herself to escape you? Maybe you snuffed her? Do tell, please.
She was too old for SUWS or ASR. There is a program called ARHW (At Risk House Wives). Which is an Aspen beta overseas project for women struggling with household issues. Women who are at-risk of filling for divorce can be enrolled in Bahrain where they start out in an orange burka and move through various stages until they finally get to call home when they are about half way thru the program. This usually takes 8-12 years before they get their first phone call.
Her peer group counselor just called to tell me that she dropped down a level so I wont be hearing for awhile.
You demanded for two days that we post Mike's obit. Now that it's posted you get mad? Pick a position, son.
Thanks, that is the first I have actually had time to read it.
This was printed in jest, possibly by theit, but it is actually the perfect equivalent of a "program."
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When he saw how much money was coming in from the publishing of his sons obit he immediately enrolled his second son in the hopes he would follow in his brothers footsteps. The logic was if he lost one son to the industry think about how much he could make by losing two sons. Plus he wouldn’t have any college payments.
More detail and posts from various roommates will be posted here soon. I have to run out for awhile.
What a poser. Michael Reuben just died a few months ago. Read the obituary. He was 22. His brother is probably in college by now. You need to run along and actually do your research.
^^TheWho quoting TheWho^^^. Why do you talk to the voices in yer head, John? Why would you make a joke about your son's passing like this, John? You disrespect him more now that he's dead than you did while he was alive, John. Why would a father joke about his dead son, John?
"Poser"? I can tell you never spent time with your sons. If you had you would have known that nobody has used the word "poser" since the 80's. 0/10 on trolling. 10/10 for post mortem disrespect.
Didn't wanna tackle this one, eh? Bet you don't.
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"Poser"? I can tell you never spent time with your sons. If you had you would have known that nobody has used the word "poser" since the 80's. 0/10 on trolling. 10/10 for post mortem disrespect
Didn't wanna tackle this one, eh? Bet you don't.
I’ll give it a shot.....
It wasn’t me. Its funny because you just disrespected a fellow survivor without even knowing it. I don’t use “poser” either. But thanks for the 10/10 for the post mortem disrespect. Not anyone can throw their own kids under the bus like that for the sake of a good trolling. I think 10/10 is a good post.
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"Poser"? I can tell you never spent time with your sons. If you had you would have known that nobody has used the word "poser" since the 80's. 0/10 on trolling. 10/10 for post mortem disrespect
Didn't wanna tackle this one, eh? Bet you don't.
I’ll give it a shot.....
It wasn’t me. Its funny because you just disrespected a fellow survivor without even knowing it. I don’t use “poser” either. But thanks for the 10/10 for the post mortem disrespect. Not anyone can throw their own kids under the bus like that for the sake of a good trolling. I think 10/10 is a good post.
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Does any one know the actual date Michael died.
Peter had been up until that point posting fairly reguarly ever day with a few misses here and there. Yet on the 6th he doesnt say a word. Coincidence?
Also Peter I'm still waiting on you to show that post where you gave Psy permission to link up all your guest posts. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
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Does any one know the actual date Michael died.
Peter had been up until that point posting fairly reguarly ever day with a few misses here and there. Yet on the 6th he doesnt say a word. Coincidence?
Also Peter I'm still waiting on you to show that post where you gave Psy permission to link up all your guest posts. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
I am not one to let anyone off the hook either. Once we get conformation that your posts are all linked together, from psy, I will get mine done. Let me know when you feel comfortable letting everyone see how much you post from the shadows. When you feel you are ready send psy a PM asking him to link your guest posts together and then ask him to confirm it on the forum.
We will work from there.
Pete
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So now then you're back peddaling on your earlier claim of having already asked him? You've been caught in yet another lie Pete, and you're being stupid on top of that. I've already shown you two seperate postings where I requested my guest posts be linked together. I've explained to you on multiple occasions, that I so rarely guest post and new postings would make only a negligble difference. I dont even remember the last time I did post under a guest name. That being the case why would I be so willing to link my guest posts, if the situation is, as you believe, only going to highlight my playing games and "attacking you from the shadows". I have nothing to hide Peter, to date you've been the one refusing to get on board. But I'll tell you what. Acknowledge for me right now that you are TheWho, and I will not only send Psy a PM asking him to link my guest posts, but I'll show it to you on here and ask him or Ginger to confirm it. Once that's done you agree to link up all your guest posts, and from there I will do my utmost to only engage you in civil, polite discourse. I've offered this to you before, and each time you've gone back to your usual M.O. You don't have any credibility on this, but I'm offering you another chance. I will fully listen to all you have to say and will respond to you with the same respect you show me.
Do we have a deal?
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
This is the topic, please.
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So now then you're back peddaling on your earlier claim of having already asked him? You've been caught in yet another lie Pete, and you're being stupid on top of that. I've already shown you two seperate postings where I requested my guest posts be linked together. I've explained to you on multiple occasions, that I so rarely guest post and new postings would make only a negligble difference. I dont even remember the last time I did post under a guest name. That being the case why would I be so willing to link my guest posts, if the situation is, as you believe, only going to highlight my playing games and "attacking you from the shadows".
Whoa, Bruce!! If you want to attack people from the shadows that is your deal. You don’t have to prove anything to me. If you get off on that its fine.
I have nothing to hide Peter, to date you've been the one refusing to get on board. But I'll tell you what. Acknowledge for me right now that you are TheWho, and I will not only send Psy a PM asking him to link my guest posts, but I'll show it to you on here and ask him or Ginger to confirm it. Once that's done you agree to link up all your guest posts, and from there I will do my utmost to only engage you in civil, polite discourse. I've offered this to you before, and each time you've gone back to your usual M.O. You don't have any credibility on this, but I'm offering you another chance. I will fully listen to all you have to say and will respond to you with the same respect you show me.
Do we have a deal?
No, look Bruce. If you have nothing to hide then you would have had your posts linked together days ago. I have had my posts linked together a few times. You have never done it because you have stuff to hide. True? True,okay. You have 3,248 posts right now. We will see how much it changes when you link them together. Once that is done we will talk. Remember, I have agreed 2 to 3 times in the past to have my posts linked together and it was done for all to see. You on the other hand have never done it. Let me know when yours are linked together, point me to psy's confirmation and we will go from there. If you want to start talking civil with me you can start now. Most people here know I am not into name calling but you are. So you can start by changing your tone if you are sincere.
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
a sick murderer
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Just for factual information purposes, Max Reuben is a survivor of HLA.
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Whoa, Bruce!! If you want to attack people from the shadows that is your deal. You don’t have to prove anything to me. If you get off on that its fine.
Is that your motivation for attacking people from the shadows? I mean you are the guy posting as a guest right now, talking to the guy who's logged in. So what's your motivation?
No, look Bruce. If you have nothing to hide then you would have had your posts linked together days ago. I have had my posts linked together a few times. You have never done it because you have stuff to hide. True? True,okay. You have 3,248 posts right now. We will see how much it changes when you link them together. Once that is done we will talk. Remember, I have agreed 2 to 3 times in the past to have my posts linked together and it was done for all to see. You on the other hand have never done it. Let me know when yours are linked together, point me to psy's confirmation and we will go from there. If you want to start talking civil with me you can start now. Most people here know I am not into name calling but you are. So you can start by changing your tone if you are sincere
:rofl: You're conviently ignoring the fact that I asked Psy to link up my post, twice, two weeks ago. Long before any of this began. So if I actually had something to hide why would I have done that?
Things will change when you finally accept respondsibility, and are honest. Remember, you brought all this on yourself.
Show me the post where you gave Psy permission to link up your guest posts. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
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Is that your motivation for attacking people from the shadows? I mean you are the guy posting as a guest right now, talking to the guy who's logged in. So what's your motivation?
Finally you are logging in. It is difficult responding to all these guest posts, Bruce. I sold my identity to Ursus. What is your excuse?
You're conviently ignoring the fact that I asked Psy to link up my post, twice, two weeks ago. Long before any of this began. So if I actually had something to hide why would I have done that?
Oh, Bruce don’t get upset. I have had them linked up plenty of times. Now it is your turn.
Things will change when you finally accept respondsibility, and are honest. Remember, you brought all this on yourself.
Thats the difference between you and me. I have always taken responsibility for my actions. You have yet to do so.
Show me the post where you gave Psy permission to link up your guest posts. I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
No
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Just for factual information purposes, Max Reuben is a survivor of HLA.
I suspected this, but now it explains why TheWho, aka John Reuben, is so interested in defending HLA.
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John Reuben posted 4/26/04 5:01 PM
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I just enrolled my son there and am interested in contacting any other parents who have children there or have had kids there. Have heard good and bad but was very impressed when I went down there. My son had not thrived either at home or in a normal boarding school environment.
Damn, John. Why would you send both of your kids to CEDU-clones ASR and HLA? Was max allowed to go to his mom's funeral, or did HLA say he had to stay there?
I'd like to know why you chose these two particular CEDU spinoffs?
So, it looks like before Mike was able to get out of ASR, Max was stuffed into HLA. Way to keep your family split up, John. I'm sure isolating the boys from eachother and keeping Max locked up while his mom was dying was the right thing to do. :o
This does explaon why TheWho, aka John Reuben, is so vehement about both of these programs and why he's gone hard after survivors of these shitpits.
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John Reuben posted 4/26/04 5:01 PM
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I just enrolled my son there and am interested in contacting any other parents who have children there or have had kids there. Have heard good and bad but was very impressed when I went down there. My son had not thrived either at home or in a normal boarding school environment.
Damn, John. Why would you send both of your kids to CEDU-clones ASR and HLA? Was max allowed to go to his mom's funeral, or did HLA say he had to stay there?
I'd like to know why you chose these two particular CEDU spinoffs?
So, it looks like before Mike was able to get out of ASR, Max was stuffed into HLA. Way to keep your family split up, John. I'm sure isolating the boys from eachother and keeping Max locked up while his mom was dying was the right thing to do. :o
This does explaon why TheWho, aka John Reuben, is so vehement about both of these programs and why he's gone hard after survivors of these shitpits.
This makes more and more sense as the facts come out. Keep digging, people. Get to the bottom of it!
No wonder Whooter (Can I call you John?) has such a hardon for Robert and HLA detractors. Looks like he made a bad investment there and doesn't want to face the facts. No surprise there, though. There's one born every minute...
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John Reuben posted 4/26/04 5:01 PM
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I just enrolled my son there and am interested in contacting any other parents who have children there or have had kids there. Have heard good and bad but was very impressed when I went down there. My son had not thrived either at home or in a normal boarding school environment.
Damn, John. Why would you send both of your kids to CEDU-clones ASR and HLA? Was max allowed to go to his mom's funeral, or did HLA say he had to stay there?
I'd like to know why you chose these two particular CEDU spinoffs?
So, it looks like before Mike was able to get out of ASR, Max was stuffed into HLA. Way to keep your family split up, John. I'm sure isolating the boys from eachother and keeping Max locked up while his mom was dying was the right thing to do. :o
This does explaon why TheWho, aka John Reuben, is so vehement about both of these programs and why he's gone hard after survivors of these shitpits.
This makes more and more sense as the facts come out. Keep digging, people. Get to the bottom of it!
No wonder Whooter (Can I call you John?) has such a hardon for Robert and HLA detractors. Looks like he made a bad investment there and doesn't want to face the facts. No surprise there, though. There's one born every minute...
I would like to know how Max is doing. Is he still talking to his dad? Does anyone know if he is working for his dads edcon business? That would be a slap to the back of the head. You got the RobertBruce backwards, he has a hardon for thewho always had.
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Any answers, John?
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You got the RobertBruce backwards, he has a hardon for thewho always had.
and Dysfunction Junction and his 'testicular fortitude'!! ;D
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John D. Reuben's Facebook Page (http://http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1412787778)
Max Reuben's Facebook Page (http://http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=1245660039&flid=0&view=search&q=reuben&nt=0&nk=0&s=0&st=0#/mreuben?__a=1) Have a look at TheWho!
Max is going to college at Curry and should graduate in '11, which makes sense, since he "graduated"(LOLS) HLA in '08. Interesting to know that John kept him locked up at HLA even after the suicide attempts, rapes, beatings, etc became public. He obviously doesn't give a fuck about his kids' welfare.
Mike Reuben's Facebook page, RIP. (http://http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=1245660039&flid=0&view=search&q=reuben&nt=0&nk=0&s=0&st=0#/profile.php?id=552748588)
John is one sad sack of shit. He absolutely destroyed his family. John, was Max allowed to go to the funeral or not?
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You got the RobertBruce backwards, he has a hardon for thewho always had.
and Dysfunction Junction and his 'testicular fortitude'!! ;D
Got it right!! The two of them cant get enough of this who guy.
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Max is going to college at Curry and should graduate in '11, which makes sense, since he "graduated"(LOLS) HLA in '08
So much for the argument that programs are ineffective or abusive. Max is headed down a healthy path. We read so much negativity here on fornits its refreshing to hear this story. We should all be happy that he is doing well and his dad had the foresight to intervene at the right time. I wish them both my best.
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John D. Reuben's Facebook Page (http://http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1412787778)
Max Reuben's Facebook Page (http://http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=1245660039&flid=0&view=search&q=reuben&nt=0&nk=0&s=0&st=0#/mreuben?__a=1) Have a look at TheWho!
Max is going to college at Curry and should graduate in '11, which makes sense, since he "graduated"(LOLS) HLA in '08. Interesting to know that John kept him locked up at HLA even after the suicide attempts, rapes, beatings, etc became public. He obviously doesn't give a fuck about his kids' welfare.
Mike Reuben's Facebook page, RIP. (http://http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=1245660039&flid=0&view=search&q=reuben&nt=0&nk=0&s=0&st=0#/profile.php?id=552748588)
John is one sad sack of shit. He absolutely destroyed his family. John, was Max allowed to go to the funeral or not?
Can you answer about his mom's funeral, please? Was he prevented from going?
Wouldn't you also say Mike was "on a good path" too? He's dead now.
Just look at the Reuben family for some down and dirty numbers: Two kids go into programs and within four years one is already dead. That's a 50% fatality rate. Max has two more years to go to make it to four. Maybe he makes it, maybe he doesn't, but the numbers don't look good for the Reuben family.
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You got the RobertBruce backwards, he has a hardon for thewho always had.
and Dysfunction Junction and his 'testicular fortitude'!! ;D
Got it right!! The two of them cant get enough of this who guy.
Check their profiles-- most active topic is........ The Who.
Big program fighters! :rocker: :rocker:
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John D. Reuben's Facebook Page (http://http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1412787778)
Max Reuben's Facebook Page (http://http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=1245660039&flid=0&view=search&q=reuben&nt=0&nk=0&s=0&st=0#/mreuben?__a=1) Have a look at TheWho!
Max is going to college at Curry and should graduate in '11, which makes sense, since he "graduated"(LOLS) HLA in '08. Interesting to know that John kept him locked up at HLA even after the suicide attempts, rapes, beatings, etc became public. He obviously doesn't give a fuck about his kids' welfare.
Mike Reuben's Facebook page, RIP. (http://http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=1245660039&flid=0&view=search&q=reuben&nt=0&nk=0&s=0&st=0#/profile.php?id=552748588)
John is one sad sack of shit. He absolutely destroyed his family. John, was Max allowed to go to the funeral or not?
Can you answer about his mom's funeral, please? Was he prevented from going?
Wouldn't you also say Mike was "on a good path" too? He's dead now.
Just look at the Reuben family for some down and dirty numbers: Two kids go into programs and within four years one is already dead. That's a 50% fatality rate. Max has two more years to go to make it to four. Maybe he makes it, maybe he doesn't, but the numbers don't look good for the Reuben family.
I see this is being strictly avoided. Must have touched a nerve. Still would like an answer here.
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John D. Reuben's Facebook Page (http://http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1412787778)
Max Reuben's Facebook Page (http://http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=1245660039&flid=0&view=search&q=reuben&nt=0&nk=0&s=0&st=0#/mreuben?__a=1) Have a look at TheWho!
Max is going to college at Curry and should graduate in '11, which makes sense, since he "graduated"(LOLS) HLA in '08. Interesting to know that John kept him locked up at HLA even after the suicide attempts, rapes, beatings, etc became public. He obviously doesn't give a fuck about his kids' welfare.
Mike Reuben's Facebook page, RIP. (http://http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=1245660039&flid=0&view=search&q=reuben&nt=0&nk=0&s=0&st=0#/profile.php?id=552748588)
John is one sad sack of shit. He absolutely destroyed his family. John, was Max allowed to go to the funeral or not?
Can you answer about his mom's funeral, please? Was he prevented from going?
Wouldn't you also say Mike was "on a good path" too? He's dead now.
Just look at the Reuben family for some down and dirty numbers: Two kids go into programs and within four years one is already dead. That's a 50% fatality rate. Max has two more years to go to make it to four. Maybe he makes it, maybe he doesn't, but the numbers don't look good for the Reuben family.
of course. If you step real close it is 100% failure rate. If you step further back and look at "all" the graduates the failure rate is a fraction of what kids experience in the public school system. Programs and private schools are considered the safest place for kids at-risk and in their teens. You need to just look at the data correctly.
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I hate to burst anyones bubble but the kid wasnt even in a program when he took his own life. Everyone should check the dates before spouting off, it makes us all look really stupid. I am just as against what this family did as everyone else but the kids deaths was not program related.
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This view that the parents are to blame for everything in the childs life is typical and most parents take it with a grain of salt because they/we remember when we were kids. This is merely a maturing process. Once the kids reach their early 20’s they take more responsibility for their actions and they look back on their difficult teen years with a more realistic view point.
...and kill themselves.
Nobody said he was in a program when he died. TheWho said kids get a realistic idea of what happened to them in their early twenties. Mike offed himself at 22. This must have been due to his reflection on the abuse, according to TheWho's reasoning.
I guess we can also expect Max to do himself in in a year or two as well. As soon as he has a realistic idea of how his dad abused and neglected him.
This thread is about a disaster called "John D. Reuben's Family" not some 30,000 foot view of the teen hurt industry. This man has been complicit in a 50% death rate of his own kids, and maybe 100% when Max gets some "realism" going.
Did Max attend his mom's funeral, John? Or did you force him to be punished while she died? Just answer the question.
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This view that the parents are to blame for everything in the childs life is typical and most parents take it with a grain of salt because they/we remember when we were kids. This is merely a maturing process. Once the kids reach their early 20’s they take more responsibility for their actions and they look back on their difficult teen years with a more realistic view point.
...and kill themselves.
Nobody said he was in a program when he died. TheWho said kids get a realistic idea of what happened to them in their early twenties. Mike offed himself at 22. This must have been due to his reflection on the abuse, according to TheWho's reasoning.
I guess we can also expect Max to do himself in in a year or two as well. As soon as he has a realistic idea of how his dad abused and neglected him.
This thread is about a disaster called "John D. Reuben's Family" not some 30,000 foot view of the teen hurt industry. This man has been complicit in a 50% death rate of his own kids, and maybe 100% when Max gets some "realism" going.
Did Max attend his mom's funeral, John? Or did you force him to be punished while she died? Just answer the question.
**reposed for attribution of original quote to TheWho.**
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Did Max attend his mom's funeral, John? Or did you force him to be punished while she died? Just answer the question.
He was beaten for thinking he ever had a momma.
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Nobody said he was in a program when he died. TheWho said kids get a realistic idea of what happened to them in their early twenties. Mike offed himself at 22. This must have been due to his reflection on the abuse, according to TheWho's reasoning.
There was a kid in my highschool who offed himself and never went to a program so that kind of blows that theory. I don’t see and credible way to tie this back to any specific event unless there was a note left. It could have been early onset of depression, a girlfriend who left him, his mothers passing away etc.
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He had one until 2005. I just want to know if he was allowed to go to her funeral or not. It's not a tough question.
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If a kid is hell bent on hurting himself he/she is going to do it. The early 20’ can be a difficult time because this is the time that they pull away from the safety of their parents and in this boys case the safety of the program he was in also. If he rejected or wasn’t receiving ongoing support forhis difficulties then this may be why he was so vulnerable and wasn’t around the right people who could have read the signs.
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I hate to burst anyones bubble but the kid wasnt even in a program when he took his own life. Everyone should check the dates before spouting off, it makes us all look really stupid. I am just as against what this family did as everyone else but the kids deaths was not program related.
Someone read the information too fast thats all. The mother died while the kid was in the program. The kid didnt die in the program, this wasnt a program death, he died years later. It can get easily confused with all these posts going back a forth.
Someone should work on a time line to help those who are just reading this.
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If anything the father is probably greatful that ASR was able to help the child thru his teen years. It seems that things started to fall apart for him after his mother died and subsequent to leaving ASR. That whole time period must have been difficult for the whole family. Hopfully most of that is behind them now.
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If a kid is hell bent on hurting himself he/she is going to do it. The early 20’ can be a difficult time because this is the time that they pull away from the safety of their parents and in this boys case the safety of the program he was in also. If he rejected or wasn’t receiving ongoing support forhis difficulties then this may be why he was so vulnerable and wasn’t around the right people who could have read the signs.
Your daughter's in her early twenties now. Do you worry this could happen to her? Did she get accepted into college after ASR? If so, was it "less competitive" or in another state? I can't see Mass. colleges accepting an ASR kid that had no valid diploma. Out of state, maybe.
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If a kid is hell bent on hurting himself he/she is going to do it. The early 20’ can be a difficult time because this is the time that they pull away from the safety of their parents and in this boys case the safety of the program he was in also. If he rejected or wasn’t receiving ongoing support forhis difficulties then this may be why he was so vulnerable and wasn’t around the right people who could have read the signs.
Your daughter's in her early twenties now. Do you worry this could happen to her? Did she get accepted into college after ASR? If so, was it "less competitive" or in another state? I can't see Mass. colleges accepting an ASR kid that had no valid diploma. Out of state, maybe.
its safe to say, thewho has no daughter
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Someone should work on a time line to help those who are just reading this.
C. 1963 AD---Birth of John D. Reuben to Oliver "Kidfucker" Reuben and some whore named Rosie.
C. 1972---John D. Reuben successfully toilet trained.
C. 1979---John D. Reuben has first sexual experience, in an outhouse, with some whore named Rosie.
C. 1999---John D. Reuben pays to have his kid mindfucked
C. 2002----John D. Reuben begins career as shill for teen torture industry
C. 2005--Present----John D. Reuben spends most of his time reading survivors' accounts of abuse and masturbating to them.
Hope this helps!
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Your daughter's in her early twenties now. Do you worry this could happen to her?
After reading here I initially did worry, but when I took a closer look I found that kids who attended programs had a lower rate of suicide than those in the public sector. I wont bring the information out because it tends to rub people the wrong way on this forum. But to answer your question no.... I am less worried than if she never received any help at all.
Did she get accepted into college after ASR? If so, was it "less competitive" or in another state? I can't see Mass. colleges accepting an ASR kid that had no valid diploma. Out of state, maybe.
She was accepted to one state school here in Massachusetts and 2 others out of state. I would rather not mention the school by name. As far as the high school diploma goes most colleges look at SAT scores. 98% of all kids don’t even have a high school diploma when they are accepted to college so that doesn’t come into play. ASR does have valid diplomas in case anyone is wondering.
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Someone should work on a time line to help those who are just reading this.
C. 1963 AD---Birth of John D. Reuben to Oliver "Kidfucker" Reuben and some whore named Rosie.
C. 1972---John D. Reuben successfully toilet trained.
C. 1979---John D. Reuben has first sexual experience, in an outhouse, with some whore named Rosie.
C. 1999---John D. Reuben pays to have his kid mindfucked
C. 2002----John D. Reuben begins career as shill for teen torture industry
C. 2005--Present----John D. Reuben spends most of his time reading survivors' accounts of abuse and masturbating to them.
Hope this helps!
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Your daughter's in her early twenties now. Do you worry this could happen to her?
After reading here I initially did worry, but when I took a closer look I found that kids who attended programs had a lower rate of suicide than those in the public sector. I wont bring the information out because it tends to rub people the wrong way on this forum. But to answer your question no.... I am less worried than if she never received any help at all.
Did she get accepted into college after ASR? If so, was it "less competitive" or in another state? I can't see Mass. colleges accepting an ASR kid that had no valid diploma. Out of state, maybe.
She was accepted to one state school here in Massachusetts and 2 others out of state. I would rather not mention the school by name. As far as the high school diploma goes most colleges look at SAT scores. 98% of all kids don’t even have a high school diploma when they are accepted to college so that doesn’t come into play. ASR does have valid diplomas in case anyone is wondering.
Thanks. You once mentioned that she kind of stayed away from the family when she got home. Does that mean her entrance into college was delayed or was she squared away by the fall and went right to school? If sh edidn't go right to college how long before she did go? And did you advise her to stay close to home or to move out of state? Did she take your advice?
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Your daughter's in her early twenties now. Do you worry this could happen to her?
After reading here I initially did worry, but when I took a closer look I found that kids who attended programs had a lower rate of suicide than those in the public sector. I wont bring the information out because it tends to rub people the wrong way on this forum. But to answer your question no.... I am less worried than if she never received any help at all.
Did she get accepted into college after ASR? If so, was it "less competitive" or in another state? I can't see Mass. colleges accepting an ASR kid that had no valid diploma. Out of state, maybe.
She was accepted to one state school here in Massachusetts and 2 others out of state. I would rather not mention the school by name. As far as the high school diploma goes most colleges look at SAT scores. 98% of all kids don’t even have a high school diploma when they are accepted to college so that doesn’t come into play. ASR does have valid diplomas in case anyone is wondering.
Thanks. You once mentioned that she kind of stayed away from the family when she got home. Does that mean her entrance into college was delayed or was she squared away by the fall and went right to school? If sh edidn't go right to college how long before she did go? And did you advise her to stay close to home or to move out of state? Did she take your advice?
^^^TheIt, having a conversation with Itself. John D. Reuben can't have a conversation with his son ever again, because he had him tortured and imprisoned at Academy At Swift River, a CEDU- Synanon division. I wonder if he minds, now that his body can be a marketing tool for his cult?
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Thanks. You once mentioned that she kind of stayed away from the family when she got home. Does that mean her entrance into college was delayed or was she squared away by the fall and went right to school? If sh edidn't go right to college how long before she did go? And did you advise her to stay close to home or to move out of state? Did she take your advice?
I am not sure who you are but if you understand a little about programs you will understand that the kids live inside a bubble, insulated from the outside world. They are kept safe from having to make decisions which may harm them so they feel very secure. When she returned home she was curious as to where her friends where after a year and a half. She wanted to explore which is natural. She started seeing her old friends again, smoked pot and drank a little. I was worried and a little upset at first but we had this new found communication and she was able to talk openly about the decisions she was making and we worked thru them together. Anyone who has read my posts know I am not against smoking pot although it is tough to watch your own kid take it on I must admit. She quickly tired of her old friends because she had out grown them emotionally and was mature beyond her years at that point, which programs tend to do.
She was stranded which means she left the program at the end of the summer. It is advantageous to leave the program and go directly into another school setting (public or private) so that there isn’t much idle time between schools. So we spent the time looking at colleges....she finished highschool and went on to college. I left the college decision up to her and she chose to be closer to home than further away.
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Did she actually graduate college? Or is she still going? Did she drop out?
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Did she actually graduate college? Or is she still going? Did she drop out?
Sorry I just noticed you said she finished high school after she came home from her program? Or did she graduate from the program's school?
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Did she actually graduate college? Or is she still going? Did she drop out?
She has graduated now,but she did dropped out for awhile to get a job working with veterens to help them get benefits or something like that. A boyfriend got her into it I think. She tired of it and went back to school and finished…took her 5 years.
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I am not sure who you are but if you understand a little about programs you will understand that the kids live inside a bubble, insulated from the outside world. They are kept safe from having to make decisions which may harm them so they feel very secure. When she returned home she was curious as to where her friends where after a year and a half. She wanted to explore which is natural. She started seeing her old friends again, smoked pot and drank a little. I was worried and a little upset at first but we had this new found communication and she was able to talk openly about the decisions she was making and we worked thru them together. Anyone who has read my posts know I am not against smoking pot although it is tough to watch your own kid take it on I must admit. She quickly tired of her old friends because she had out grown them emotionally and was mature beyond her years at that point, which programs tend to do.
She was stranded which means she left the program at the end of the summer. It is advantageous to leave the program and go directly into another school setting (public or private) so that there isn’t much idle time between schools. So we spent the time looking at colleges....she finished highschool and went on to college. I left the college decision up to her and she chose to be closer to home than further away.
Did she actually graduate college? Or is she still going? Did she drop out?
Sorry I just noticed you said she finished high school after she came home from her program? Or did she graduate from the program's school?
John Reuben's conversations with himself about his imaginary daughter being "matured beyond her years," "like many" people who spend a lot of time institutionalized, represent the state you might be reduced to, if you join a cult like the one connected to Academy at Swift River, an extension of CEDU, Synanon.
Too bad John Reuben's son committed suicide because of the trauma of torture and imprisonment at Academy At Swift River, instead getting matured. Or maybe he got so matured he was accelerated in old age, and then into death?
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Did she actually graduate college? Or is she still going? Did she drop out?
She has graduated now,but she did dropped out for awhile to get a job working with veterens to help them get benefits or something like that. A boyfriend got her into it I think. She tired of it and went back to school and finished…took her 5 years.
QFT for prosperity.
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Did she actually graduate college? Or is she still going? Did she drop out?
She has graduated now,but she did dropped out for awhile to get a job working with veterens to help them get benefits or something like that. A boyfriend got her into it I think. She tired of it and went back to school and finished…took her 5 years.
Well, at least she graduated. I'm worried about ASR academics. Was she there when it was bad? I heard it was worse around 2003-2004, but has gotten better.
Do you honestly feel anyone is stupid enough to believe an anonymous bystander interested in the academics at Academy At Swift River, CEDU extension, would question "thewho" about his "daughter" in this thread, dedicated to John D Reuben's son's suicide?
All you succeed in doing is exposing the Academy at Swift River cult members as the dishonest, child corpse treading ghouls that they are.
I guess we will not be told if Mike Reuben was released to attend his mother's funeral.
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Did she actually graduate college? Or is she still going? Did she drop out?
She has graduated now,but she did dropped out for awhile to get a job working with veterens to help them get benefits or something like that. A boyfriend got her into it I think. She tired of it and went back to school and finished…took her 5 years.
Well, at least she graduated. I'm worried about ASR academics. Was she there when it was bad? I heard it was worse around 2003-2004, but has gotten better.
2001/2002 it wasnt bad. They had some certified teachers and were creating a connection with the local schools system and state. Peter Stevens was running the academics at that time. I think was his name. But for many parents the academics are secondary, most kids had dropped out anyway prior to ASR and were at risk for other reasons so just getting your kids to open a book was a huge leap.
Not sure how they are now but I do know they have improved tremendously in their successes. They have adopted a more clinical approach and the kids see a better transition upon graduation instead of an abrupt end.
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Thanks, i feel a little better. How old is your daughter now? Is she married? Kids? I hear a lot of these kids have problems with relationships. Did she graduate college yet?
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Do you honestly feel anyone is stupid enough to believe an anonymous bystander interested in the academics at Academy At Swift River, CEDU extension, would question "thewho" about his "daughter" in this thread, dedicated to John D Reuben's son's suicide?
All you succeed in doing is exposing the Academy at Swift River cult members as the dishonest, child corpse treading ghouls that they are.
Was Mike Reuben was released to attend his mother's funeral when detained?
Why are you avoiding the question?
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Do you honestly feel anyone is stupid enough to believe an anonymous bystander interested in the academics at Academy At Swift River, CEDU extension, would question "thewho" about his "daughter" in this thread, dedicated to John D Reuben's son's suicide?
All you succeed in doing is exposing the Academy at Swift River cult members as the dishonest, child corpse treading ghouls that they are.
Was Mike Reuben was released to attend his mother's funeral when detained?
Why are you avoiding the question?
It was Max Reuben, his other detainee..errr...son that was held at HLA when his mom died. I don't believe he was allowed to leave the facility for her funeral.
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John must be too busy enSlavingTeens right now to answer.
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John must be too busy enSlavingTeens right now to answer.
Yes, he takes gubmint dollars (your tax dollars) and uses them to imprison youths privately at various quack-holes.
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John must be too busy enSlavingTeens right now to answer.
Yes, he takes gubmint dollars (your tax dollars) and uses them to imprison youths privately at various quack-holes.
Why is that a crime? They use tax dollars for far worse things than imprisoning youths. At least they are kept safe here. Imagine if they were shipped overseas with private funding where people hate Americans. You would see abuse on a whole new level. All my work stays within the confines of the US borders... no 2nd rate programs.
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John must be too busy enSlavingTeens right now to answer.
Yes, he takes gubmint dollars (your tax dollars) and uses them to imprison youths privately at various quack-holes.
Contact the IRS...and point out any financial impropriety
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Do you honestly feel anyone is stupid enough to believe an anonymous bystander interested in the academics at Academy At Swift River, CEDU extension, would question "thewho" about his "daughter" in this thread, dedicated to John D Reuben's son's suicide?
All you succeed in doing is exposing the Academy at Swift River cult members as the dishonest, child corpse treading ghouls that they are.
Was Mike Reuben was released to attend his mother's funeral when detained?
Why are you avoiding the question?
It was Max Reuben, his other detainee..errr...son that was held at HLA when his mom died. I don't believe he was allowed to leave the facility for her funeral.
And this creep is thewho, the weirdo fixated on Robert Bruce? That makes sense. His son is no longer around to abuse. And the rage he feels about the whole situation misdirected onto robert...
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Do you honestly feel anyone is stupid enough to believe an anonymous bystander interested in the academics at Academy At Swift River, CEDU extension, would question "thewho" about his "daughter" in this thread, dedicated to John D Reuben's son's suicide?
All you succeed in doing is exposing the Academy at Swift River cult members as the dishonest, child corpse treading ghouls that they are.
Was Mike Reuben was released to attend his mother's funeral when detained?
Why are you avoiding the question?
It was Max Reuben, his other detainee..errr...son that was held at HLA when his mom died. I don't believe he was allowed to leave the facility for her funeral.
And this creep is thewho, the weirdo fixated on Robert Bruce? That makes sense. His son is no longer around to abuse. And the rage he feels about the whole situation misdirected onto robert...
All right Bruce... we all know it is you,Bruce, who is following thewho around when he posts. Try to lay off for a day and we will see who is fixated on who. This whole thewho thread would not even been started in the first place if it was not for Bruce.
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Do you honestly feel anyone is stupid enough to believe an anonymous bystander interested in the academics at Academy At Swift River, CEDU extension, would question "thewho" about his "daughter" in this thread, dedicated to John D Reuben's son's suicide?
All you succeed in doing is exposing the Academy at Swift River cult members as the dishonest, child corpse treading ghouls that they are.
Was Mike Reuben was released to attend his mother's funeral when detained?
Why are you avoiding the question?
It was Max Reuben, his other detainee..errr...son that was held at HLA when his mom died. I don't believe he was allowed to leave the facility for her funeral.
And this creep is thewho, the weirdo fixated on Robert Bruce? That makes sense. His son is no longer around to abuse. And the rage he feels about the whole situation misdirected onto robert...
All right Bruce... we all know it is you,Bruce, who is following thewho around when he posts. Try to lay off for a day and we will see who is fixated on who. This whole thewho thread would not even been started in the first place if it was not for Bruce.
I guess this is also how you defend programs, who? Stalk, insult and troll a 20something survivor of HLA? Digusting. You refelect very well on HLA.
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You must be new. Stick around and see bruce at his finest.
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Thanks Pete, I'll do my best.
All right Bruce... we all know it is you,Bruce, who is following thewho around when he posts. Try to lay off for a day and we will see who is fixated on who. This whole thewho thread would not even been started in the first place if it was not for Bruce.
Interestingly enough I didn't start posting on "TheWho" thread until well after its inception. Another interesting point to note, I did lay off for a day. You just still can't accept that I'm not the only one willing to hold you accountable, or that you aren't always talking to me when you assume you are.
Speaking of which.
Where is the post where you gave permission to have your guest posts linked up? I'm not letting you off the hook Peter.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
I'd love to hear more from this boy's roomates... :peace: Is Jogn Reuben even sad his son is dead? Does he share what is perhaps his avatar's sunny view that, hey,one kid survived HLA and Academy at Swift River, and now everything is behind him?
Honestly, I don't think a lot of people like John Reuben care when their kids commit suicide. Not like a normal person would, anyway.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
I'd love to hear more from Mike Reuben's roomates... :peace: Is Jogn Reuben even sad his son's dead? Does he share what is perhaps his avatar's sunny view that, hey,one kid survived HLA and Academy at Swift River, and now everything is behind him?
I don't think a lot of people like John Reuben care when their kids commit suicide. Not like a normal person would, anyway.
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@ New readers:
Now keep in mind as you read thru this thread that none of the posters has ever met this John Reuben or the family from the thread on swift river. They make up the stories as they go along to try to discredit him and his family.
Now the kicker:
These same posters plead emphatically that they were abused in a program. (They just lie about everything else) Where does the lying end and the truth begin?
Hmmm. makes one wonder, doesnt it. Does everyone see the credibility of the posters here going
Down
Down
Down?
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@ New Readers
Now keep in mind as you read thru this thread that the above poster (TheWho) has never met any of the posters from this forum. He makes up the stories as he goes along because he has a vested interest in this abusive industry.
Now the kicker:
These same posters he lies about constantly, were abused in programs. (He just lies about everything else) Where does the lying end and the truth begin?
Hmmm. makes one wonder, doesnt it. Does everyone see the credibility of the posters here going
Down
Down
Down
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@ New readers:
Now keep in mind as you read thru this thread that none of the posters has ever met this John Reuben or the family from the thread on swift river. They make up the stories as they go along to try to discredit him and his family.
Now the kicker:
These same posters plead emphatically that they were abused in a program. (They just lie about everything else) Where does the lying end and the truth begin?
Hmmm. makes one wonder, doesnt it. Does everyone see the credibility of the posters here going
Down
Down
Down?
Put a sock in it who :twofinger:
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
I'd love to hear more from this boy's roomates... :peace: Is Jogn Reuben even sad his son is dead? Does he share what is perhaps his avatar's sunny view that, hey,one kid survived HLA and Academy at Swift River, and now everything is behind him?
Honestly, I don't think a lot of people like John Reuben care when their kids commit suicide. Not like a normal person would, anyway.
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I agree. He uses the "blame the child" approach to family systems.
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Blame the child first...? Hmmmm...'who' has that same philosophy here? Lemme think...
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Honestly, I don't think a lot of people like John Reuben care when their kids commit suicide. Not like a normal person would, anyway.
Even so called normal people dont care very much these days. Many families barely notice until they see a decrease in their tax return due to a lost dependent claim. Its the direct we are all heading.
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Blame the child first...? Hmmmm...'who' has that same philosophy here? Lemme think...
Quite a few parents...errr...trolls. Well...really just one troll posing as many parents, kids, edcons, therapists, admissions people, staff, etc. etc. etc. AKA "Whooter".
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^^Whooter^^ I can tell it was the Whooter because he left out child molester and murderer. He hates to be called that. He is even trolling himself now!!!
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^^Whooter^^ I can tell it was the Whooter because he left out child molester and murderer. He hates to be called that. He is even trolling himself now!!!
Ah, Whootie, always seeking to dissemble. One more, facts are facts. Rueben sends kids to programs like HLA where sexual predators roam the grounds with more-or-less regular kids. HLA takes court-ordered offenders and convicted sexual predators. Yet Reuben still sent his kid there and refers others there as well. What does that say about Reuben?
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John sent his own kids to three of the worst of the worst - SUWS, ASR and HLA. Now he has only one kid left. What would possess any parent to let John place their kid when he has a 50% death rate for his OWN kids? Makes no sense.
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:guesswho:
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John sent his own kids to three of the worst of the worst - SUWS, ASR and HLA. Now he has only one kid left. What would possess any parent to let John place their kid when he has a 50% death rate for his OWN kids? Makes no sense.
"Hi! This is John speaking. I have imprisoned both of my kids and one died. Would you like me to place yours? Programs are safe!"
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John sent his own kids to three of the worst of the worst - SUWS, ASR and HLA. Now he has only one kid left. What would possess any parent to let John place their kid when he has a 50% death rate for his OWN kids? Makes no sense.
"Hi! This is John speaking. I have imprisoned both of my kids and one died. Would you like me to place yours? Programs are safe!"
Easy one.... :guesswho:
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John sent his own kids to three of the worst of the worst - SUWS, ASR and HLA. Now he has only one kid left. What would possess any parent to let John place their kid when he has a 50% death rate for his OWN kids? Makes no sense.
"Hi! This is John speaking. I have imprisoned both of my kids and one died. Would you like me to place yours? Programs are safe!"
Easy one.... :guesswho:
Very easy one. STICC and john reuben should be avoided like the plague. Half of John's kids are dead due to placement at ASR. The other half are mentally maimed by placement at HLA.
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John sent his own kids to three of the worst of the worst - SUWS, ASR and HLA. Now he has only one kid left. What would possess any parent to let John place their kid when he has a 50% death rate for his OWN kids? Makes no sense.
"Hi! This is John speaking. I have imprisoned both of my kids and one died. Would you like me to place yours? Programs are safe!"
Easy one.... :guesswho:
Very easy one. STICC and john reuben should be avoided like the plague. Half of John's kids are dead due to placement at ASR. The other half are mentally maimed by placement at HLA.
Not a good track record to run on, eh?
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Wow, just checking in, I can see Bruce and company are still working Damage control. So now all kids that went to HLA and ASR are all dead? You really know how to push it. Go for the sky I guess, bro. Nothing to lose at this point.
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Wow, just checking in, I can see Bruce and company are still working Damage control. So now all kids that went to HLA and ASR are all dead? You really know how to push it. Go for the sky I guess, bro. Nothing to lose at this point.
Can you cite where anyone said this? Where is the evidence[/i] this was said? :beat: :beat: :beat:
So, douche, let's do a word problem: If John Reuben had two sons and he sent one to ASR and one to HLA and one is dead, what's the program death rate at the Rueben household?
A: 50% and not a good track record.
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^^Whooter^^ I can tell it was the Whooter because he left out child molester and murderer. He hates to be called that. He is even trolling himself now!!!
Ah, Whootie, always seeking to dissemble. One more, facts are facts. Rueben sends kids to programs like HLA where sexual predators roam the grounds with more-or-less regular kids. HLA takes court-ordered offenders and convicted sexual predators. Yet Reuben still sent his kid there and refers others there as well. What does that say about Reuben?
John, this isn't going away. Why did you send your boys to ASR and HLA, two of the worst-of-the-worst programs out there? Why should anyone believe you when you recommend placements at holes like ASR and HLA?
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Geez, John. Even run-of-the-mill, unconnected, not-in-the-business-type parents know what HLA is all about. If they know, why wouldn't you? You're in the business of referring kids to places like HLA, but you seem unfazed by the facts that HLA abuses children and places them in a dangerous mix of pedophiles, rapists, sociopaths, etc.
Why would you send your kid there and recommend that other parents do the same in light of this very serious report?
Parents, don't let John David Reuben of "Saving Teens In Crisis" get hold of your kid!
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
We now know John sent Max to HLA, a confirmedly abusive facility with over 2500 pages of violations on ORS files. Why, John? Why did you send Max there? Also, why was Max disallowed from leaving HLA to attend his mother's funeral? Is that someone's idea of therapy at HLA?
These are tough questions, but many people would appreciate an answer, John.
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John David Reuben of Saving Teens In Crisis did this to his own child? These circumstances make one wonder about John David Reuben’s judgement. How does the man behind STIC explain his inability to research the truth behind the program he condemned his own child to?
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Let's give him the benefit of the doubt - he knew. And he put his kid there anyway. Either way, he's responsible for hurting his kid by proxy.
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Let's give him the benefit of the doubt - he knew. And he put his kid there anyway. Either way, he's responsible for hurting his kid by proxy.
Who is everyone talking to? Has anyone notified this Reuben guy to let him know people are posting about him here? I have never seen him respond here.
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John Reuben is The Who, in case you're not up to speed. He posts here plenty.
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John Reuben is The Who, in case you're not up to speed. He posts here plenty.
Well, I guess you could call me John or Peter or even Alan Newman if you like. I am called all three... also previously went by "thewho".
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John David Reuben of Saving Teens In Crisis did this to his own child? These circumstances make one wonder about John David Reuben’s judgement. How does the man behind STIC explain his inability to research the truth behind the program he condemned his own child to?
Back on topic, please.
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I wonder why Jon chose ASR. There seem to have been many deaths of kids from the period when Mike was there. There is a large cluster of deaths around that 2000/2001 enrollment class. It appears that out of 30 or so enrolled that year, at least 5 are dead. This represents a pretty high death rate, IMO.
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I wonder why Jon chose ASR. There seem to have been many deaths of kids from the period when Mike was there. There is a large cluster of deaths around that 2000/2001 enrollment class. It appears that out of 30 or so enrolled that year, at least 5 are dead. This represents a pretty high death rate, IMO.
so far we have identified 3.... if we raise it to 5 then we are looking at a 99.5% success rate down from 99.7%
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I wonder why Jon chose ASR. There seem to have been many deaths of kids from the period when Mike was there. There is a large cluster of deaths around that 2000/2001 enrollment class. It appears that out of 30 or so enrolled that year, at least 5 are dead. This represents a pretty high death rate, IMO.
Five out of thirty is not very good.
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I wonder why Jon chose ASR. There seem to have been many deaths of kids from the period when Mike was there. There is a large cluster of deaths around that 2000/2001 enrollment class. It appears that out of 30 or so enrolled that year, at least 5 are dead. This represents a pretty high death rate, IMO.
Five out of thirty is not very good.
No it isnt, 5 out of 5 is even worse... but 3 out of 1,000 is a 99.7% success rate.
That is where we are today. If you post the names and obits of the other 2 I will adjust it to 99.5% for you which is a step down and will benefit your cause.
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But ASR hasn't "graduated" 1000 kids. It's more like 100 or less. They have a 65% drop out rate. And of the kids that are left, only a few graduate. A handful at most. Please post the names of 1000 graduates to support your cause.
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I wonder why Jon chose ASR. There seem to have been many deaths of kids from the period when Mike was there. There is a large cluster of deaths around that 2000/2001 enrollment class. It appears that out of 30 or so enrolled that year, at least 5 are dead. This represents a pretty high death rate, IMO.
I think as more peer groups come out this number will go up.
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But ASR hasn't "graduated" 1000 kids. It's more like 100 or less. They have a 65% drop out rate. And of the kids that are left, only a few graduate. A handful at most. Please post the names of 1000 graduates to support your cause.
Greater than 95% of the students who start out at ASR finish the program. 4% end up being asked to leave for rules infractions or unsafe behavior and the other 1 % are pulled by their parents for various reason..ie. economic, social, other.
They house 90 students who graduate every 12-16 months. So looking at roughly a snap shot of 12 years and taking the conservative number of 16 months for each student we see a total graduation population of 860 students.
Looking at a total loss of 3 students the success rate would be closer to 857/860 == 99.65%
If we were off by 100 students then that would bring the success rate to 757/760 == 99.60%
So even looking at the worst case scenario ASR is experienceing a better than 99% success rate.
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Greater than 95% of the students who start out at ASR finish the program. 4% end up being asked to leave for rules infractions or unsafe behavior and the other 1 % are pulled by their parents for various reason..ie. economic, social, other.
Cite this for us please, otherwise your facts are meaningless.
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But ASR hasn't "graduated" 1000 kids. It's more like 100 or less. They have a 65% drop out rate. And of the kids that are left, only a few graduate. A handful at most. Please post the names of 1000 graduates to support your cause.
Greater than 95% of the students who start out at ASR finish the program. 4% end up being asked to leave for rules infractions or unsafe behavior and the other 1 % are pulled by their parents for various reason..ie. economic, social, other.
They house 90 students who graduate every 12-16 months. So looking at roughly a snap shot of 12 years and taking the conservative number of 16 months for each student we see a total graduation population of 860 students.
Looking at a total loss of 3 students the success rate would be closer to 857/860 == 99.65%
If we were off by 100 students then that would bring the success rate to 757/760 == 99.60%
So even looking at the worst case scenario ASR is experienceing a better than 99% success rate.
Ha, ha, ha. This is funny. BIG BOLD TYPE does not a substitute for facts and sources!
Let's start with 65% of kids who go to ASR are pulled out by their parents before completing the program, much less grasduating. A 35% retention rate just doesn't add up to what your peddling here, so maybe you should try backpedaling again.
More realistic numbers are about 200-300 kids who completed the program, maybe 50% with a diploma, so that's down to 150 kids, max. Out of that 150 at least 5 are dead, and 75% are back to their old ways. your talking about a 5% "success rate" from enrollment to graduation.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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Hey does anyone have a current subscription to a criminal background check service? If so, I'd like to run a query on "John David Reuben" from Mass. for an arrest record. Please, if you can help me out, this will go a long way, I promise. I believe he does have at least one arrest and would like to verify that.
Thanks!
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Hey does anyone have a current subscription to a criminal background check service? If so, I'd like to run a query on "John David Reuben" from Mass. for an arrest record. Please, if you can help me out, this will go a long way, I promise. I believe he does have at least one arrest and would like to verify that.
Thanks!
:cheers:
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It looks like a "disorderly conduct" arrest. Anyone have any other info on what this guy did to get arrested for DC???
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Here's why TheWho is so interested in HLA and how he got RB's treatment information from HLA:
http://http://www.plaxo.com/directory/profile/214749268482/b8f0863f/Jeff/Holloway
TheWho IS John Reuben and John Reuben is deeply connected to HLA professionally as well as locking his kid up there.
Now, Who, please explain exactly how Holloway came to give you RB's privacy law-protected information.
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John, why do you send kids to places like HLA where your own child was prevented from visiting his dying mom and not allowed to go to the funeral either? Why should anyone trust you? Please explain yourself.
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John, why do you send kids to places like HLA where your own child was prevented from visiting his dying mom and not allowed to go to the funeral either? Why should anyone trust you? Please explain yourself.
I would really like to hear this answer.
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John, why do you send kids to places like HLA where your own child was prevented from visiting his dying mom and not allowed to go to the funeral either? Why should anyone trust you? Please explain yourself.
I went back thru all the posts and I dont see where it says the kid wasnt allowed to go to his moms funeral. This is so frustrating. Can someone please provide a link?
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John, why do you send kids to places like HLA where your own child was prevented from visiting his dying mom and not allowed to go to the funeral either? Why should anyone trust you? Please explain yourself.
I would really like to hear this answer.
It says it right here. And many other places.
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John, why do you send kids to places like HLA where your own child was prevented from visiting his dying mom and not allowed to go to the funeral either? Why should anyone trust you? Please explain yourself.
I would really like to hear this answer.
It says it right here. And many other places.
I did read that one. But how do we know he wasnt allowed to attend the funeral?
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John, why do you send kids to places like HLA where your own child was prevented from visiting his dying mom and not allowed to go to the funeral either? Why should anyone trust you? Please explain yourself.
I would really like to hear this answer.
It says it right here. And many other places.
I did read that one. But how do we know he wasnt allowed to attend the funeral?
Max went to the funeral, no need to worry. They are just trying to make programs look bad. Keep in mind you are on fornits.
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Max went to the funeral, no need to worry. They are just trying to make programs look bad. Keep in mind you are on fornits.
Ya know you people suck. We know his kid probably went to the god dam funeral. We were posting that to try to smoke out this Rueben guy and get him to respond here on fornits. Why cant people just shut the fuck up and post in other threads. We sent him emails letting him know about fornits so he is probly reading this shit right now. Fuck, I cant believe you ruined it like that. Are you retarded? Or what?
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HLA does not allow kids to go for visits to sick loved ones or to their funerals. This kid was not allowed to go to his mom's funeral. It's the HLA way.
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Max went to the funeral, no need to worry. They are just trying to make programs look bad. Keep in mind you are on fornits.
Ya know you people suck. We know his kid probably went to the god dam funeral. We were posting that to try to smoke out this Rueben guy and get him to respond here on fornits. Why cant people just shut the fuck up and post in other threads. We sent him emails letting him know about fornits so he is probly reading this shit right now. Fuck, I cant believe you ruined it like that. Are you retarded? Or what?
This is funny. There would be no need to email Reuben, as he posts here every day and has for many years. ^This^ is him, aka 'TheWho.' John, people just want to know why you sent your kid to a program that amassed nearly 3000 pages of ORS violations, and, considering that fact, why anyone should let you tell them how to handle their kid.
Just shoot us straight, Johnny.
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Max went to the funeral, no need to worry. They are just trying to make programs look bad. Keep in mind you are on fornits.
Ya know you people suck. We know his kid probably went to the god dam funeral. We were posting that to try to smoke out this Rueben guy and get him to respond here on fornits. Why cant people just shut the fuck up and post in other threads. We sent him emails letting him know about fornits so he is probly reading this shit right now. Fuck, I cant believe you ruined it like that. Are you retarded? Or what?
This is funny.
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Max went to the funeral, no need to worry. They are just trying to make programs look bad. Keep in mind you are on fornits.
Ya know you people suck. We know his kid probably went to the god dam funeral. We were posting that to try to smoke out this Rueben guy and get him to respond here on fornits. Why cant people just shut the fuck up and post in other threads. We sent him emails letting him know about fornits so he is probly reading this shit right now. Fuck, I cant believe you ruined it like that. Are you retarded? Or what?
This is funny. There would be no need to email Reuben, as he posts here every day and has for many years. ^This^ is him, aka 'TheWho.' John, people just want to know why you sent your kid to a program that amassed nearly 3000 pages of ORS violations, and, considering that fact, why anyone should let you tell them how to handle their kid.
Just shoot us straight, Johnny.
Great question. I'd like to hear the answer to this.
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Max went to the funeral, no need to worry. They are just trying to make programs look bad. Keep in mind you are on fornits.
Ya know you people suck. We know his kid probably went to the god dam funeral. We were posting that to try to smoke out this Rueben guy and get him to respond here on fornits. Why cant people just shut the fuck up and post in other threads. We sent him emails letting him know about fornits so he is probly reading this shit right now. Fuck, I cant believe you ruined it like that. Are you retarded? Or what?
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Anyone who sends their child to HLA knowing what Mr. Reuben knows (and knew about HLA before he sent Max) is patently insane.
I find it amusing also that every time Mr. Reuben responds to this thread he intentionally misspells his name, as he knows it won't hit that way in a search engine. He's an internet marketing guy, after all.
Let me also say that these threats of suing are idle. If Mr. Reuben were to file suit, he would be subject to discovery and all of his posts here as "TheWho" and his other "guest" posts would become documented fact in the public record and his little referral/kickback business would be drowned in the bathtub.
By not suing and instead trolling he maintains "plausible deniability." If he were to bring suit, he would be identified and officially and indelibly "outed" as it were, and I assure you, he does not want what he's done here to be tied to his reputation. Because he sold his account and posts only as a "guest" he also cannot delete the record of his actions.
Mr. Reuben is in a terrible pickle of his own design and therefore will do nothing (except carp, gripe and troll).
Just my two cents.
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The problem is that Mr.Reuben hasnt responded here yet. We dont even know if he is reading this stuff. Has anyone emailed him? I dont think anyone is going to sue over an internet site. Plus the only reason he would sue was to recoup damages, but there havent been any damages. He can still refer to HLA and ASR all he likes. fornits hasnt made a dent in that business as far as know.
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Hi Mr. Reuben,
Does being a soulless program pimp ever get you down?
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Hi Mr. Reuben,
Does being a soulless program pimp ever get you down?
I dont think he meant here on fornits. Try emailing him at STICC and see if he comes here to post.
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I’ll take that as a no. Mr. Reuben (may I call you John?). Could you enlighten everyone on what it’s like to be you…You know having a limited spectrum of emotion and all.
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Hi Mr. Reuben,
Does being a soulless program pimp ever get you down?
I don't think it does.
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Maybe ISAC can add SavingTeens.org and STICC to the list of known ed cons who refer to abusive programs, along with PURE where it belongs.
There is a rumour that John D. Reuben's dead son was gay and that was the real reason for shipping him to ASR. Why did John D. Reuben refer to his son as his daughter? Was it a cruel homophobic jibe? How aware was his son of his dad's postings on here and did John D. Reuben's work as the who contribute to his son's death?
When you see that John D. Reuben posted non stop even on the days immediately following his son's death, you know his problem goes deeper than a "limited spectrum of emotion". He's emotionally dead.
John D. Reuben's work as the who needs to very publicly linked to STICC and Lon Woodbury, so people can see the essence of a program parent.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
bump
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Mr. Reuben is busy right now. He is determined to save AARC, although he isn't sure where AARC is, or what it is.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
bump
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Aspen Education Group Continues to Provide
Unflagging Support
Aspen Education Group has placed a “Saving Teens ~ Donate Now” button on their Alumni Website, and has also made a very generous donation to STICC in the names of 80 individuals as thanks for their participation in an Aspen survey to improve services. STICC thanks everyone Aspen Education Group for their enthusiasm, collaborative spirit and support of the Saving Teens methodology and mission.
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Ha,Ha,Ha
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STICC Receives $100,000 Grant from the Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention
To Our Schools and Programs: Be a part of helping teens and their families, and share in that public recognition and prestige through the Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative network of contributors, providers, referring parties, parents, and the government institutions that support us. Please click here to view our Press Release on StrugglingTeens.com.
Many thanks to Congressman Ed Markey of Massachusetts for his support of Saving Teens methodology, and the opportunity to apply for our federal grant!
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Ha,Ha,Ha
John David Reuben destroyed his son Micheal by torture at Academy at Swift River, SUWS wilderness program, thought reform, cultic gulags formed by disciples of CEDU - Synanon.
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It's obvious John "thewho" D. Reuben is Lon Woodbury's boy and has been doing his bidding here, if Lon himself wasn't logging in as theWho. Everybody noticed the weird "shifts" in theWho's style, maybe John and Lon shared duties logging in as theWho. Everyone from STICC probably took turns logging in as theWho, and it explains why theWho's posts continued even on the days surrounding his son's death.
Either way, the conglomerate known as "theWho" was a piece of shit, and John D. Reuben is in denial over the utter failure of his son's program. This is why he pushes programs so hard - he can't admit to his failure as a parent and the death surrounding his inept job of "fathering". Fornits is Reuben's "whipping boy" because it's a constant reminder of his failure, the truth he doesn't want to hear and doesn't want anyone else to hear. He has to believe programs work to keep his guilt from eating him alive.
Weak, pathetic, monstrous motherfucker, and he must be stopped.
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It's obvious John "thewho" D. Reuben is Lon Woodbury's boy and has been doing his bidding here, if Lon himself wasn't logging in as theWho. Everybody noticed the weird "shifts" in theWho's style, maybe John and Lon shared duties logging in as theWho. Everyone from STICC probably took turns logging in as theWho, and it explains why theWho's posts continued even on the days surrounding his son's death.
Either way, the conglomerate known as "theWho" was a piece of shit, and John D. Reuben is in denial over the utter failure of his son's program. This is why he pushes programs so hard - he can't admit to his failure as a parent and the death surrounding his inept job of "fathering". Fornits is Reuben's "whipping boy" because it's a constant reminder of his failure, the truth he doesn't want to hear and doesn't want anyone else to hear. He has to believe programs work to keep his guilt from eating him alive.
Weak, pathetic, monstrous motherfucker, and he must be stopped.
That was a very interesting and revealing post, Ajax13. A shrink would tell you that with all that passion and if you rearrange a few words you actually just described yourself and your reason for being here.
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That was a very interesting and revealing post, Ajax13. A shrink would tell you that with all that passion and if you rearrange a few words you actually just described yourself and your reason for being here.
It says more about your paranoid obsession. It ain't Ajax 13, and what "passion" are you prattling about? I merely stated the facts for those unfamiliar with John D. Reuben's background. There needs to be accurate information available, the guy does not provide it himself.
Look at the body language in this picture:
(http://http://www.savingteens.org/images/MikeandJohn1.JPG)
The young man is defensive and guarded, trying to distance himself from Reuben. Based on Reuben's postings as the who and his comments about the appearance of many Fornits posters, I can see Mike and his bastard father butting heads like rams. Mike looked more like a Fornits poster...he should have been.
You are a pig fucker, John. Karma will creep up and settle old debts with you, but we should speed the process along a bit.
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Don't forget that John placed his other son, Max, into HLA which has been shuttered due to losing lawsuits, public pressure and hundreds of ORS violations. HLA was even more abusive than ASR, but that didn't stop John from placing his son there long after HLA's abusiveness was widley publicized.
One egomaniac parent did so bad of a job raising his kids he put both into programs and one is dead. The one that isn't dead believes John killed his wife (the boy's mother) which Max has stated to many people at HLA and home. John today says that HLA and ASR saved his family, despite half of his children being dead.
Best case: John is an awful parent who can't admit this or how wrong he was about programs so he promotes them and calls them 'family savers'.
Worst case: John had a hand in killing his wife and sent his kids to programs so they couldn't be witnesses.
We report, you decide.
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If this guy ever really shows up here he is going to wonder WTF is going on. This is up to 15 pages and growing.
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If this guy ever really shows up here he is going to wonder WTF is going on. This is up to 15 pages and growing.
IF Reuben hasn't personally seen this thread his good friend Lon Woodbury has and informed him. He's seen it, though, I emailed him about it at STICC when it started. Hi John. Ha, ha, ha.
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If this guy ever really shows up here he is going to wonder WTF is going on. This is up to 15 pages and growing.
IF Reuben hasn't personally seen this thread his good friend Lon Woodbury has and informed him. He's seen it, though, I emailed him about it at STICC when it started. Hi John. Ha, ha, ha.
He must be thinking WTF.
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He is smart by not posting here. That would turn this place into a side show for sure!! Lordy!!!!!!
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He is smart by not posting here. That would turn this place into a side show for sure!! Lordy!!!!!!
Uh-huh. That's one way of looking at it. Another is that he lacks the clackers to address it without turning it into a side show. Figure the latter.
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He is smart by not posting here. That would turn this place into a side show for sure!! Lordy!!!!!!
Uh-huh. That's one way of looking at it. Another is that he lacks the clackers to address it without turning it into a side show. Figure the latter.
There is nothing to address. He never posted any info here or asked anyone their opinion. There could be thousands of people talking about his business positive and negative. We cant expect him to seek them all out and respond.
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Ridiculous. Even Ken fucking Huey posted here. John IS posting here, formerly under the name TheWho, and now as an anon. He will never confront anyone at this site, because to do so would be to admit he's TheWho and then there would be no deniability for TheWho's awful and stupid commentary here. It would drive a stake thru the heart of his cash cow. So he continues to post anon. It ain't that deep. If any of this was UNTRUE, he'd be suing, guaranteed. Or at the very least denying. That ain't happening.
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Ridiculous. Even Ken fucking Huey posted here. John IS posting here, formerly under the name TheWho, and now as an anon. He will never confront anyone at this site, because to do so would be to admit he's TheWho and then there would be no deniability for TheWho's awful and stupid commentary here. It would drive a stake thru the heart of his cash cow. So he continues to post anon. It ain't that deep. If any of this was UNTRUE, he'd be suing, guaranteed. Or at the very least denying. That ain't happening.
Yeah, If John Reuben was not theWho he would have sued by now.
Obviously, there are reasons people decide not to pursue libel suits for the printing of negative, nonfactual info about themselves, but none of them are present in this case.
He could prove he is not thwho simply, cheaply, and conclusively through legal means. And to sue for libel he wouldn't need to prove financial loss
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Ridiculous. Even Ken fucking Huey posted here. John IS posting here, formerly under the name TheWho, and now as an anon. He will never confront anyone at this site, because to do so would be to admit he's TheWho and then there would be no deniability for TheWho's awful and stupid commentary here. It would drive a stake thru the heart of his cash cow. So he continues to post anon. It ain't that deep. If any of this was UNTRUE, he'd be suing, guaranteed. Or at the very least denying. That ain't happening.
So if you post something about someone here on the forum and it goes unchallenged then it becomes fact? Hmmm. So we can conclude that Ajax13 is guilty of abusing his son sexually as has been posted several times here. He never denied any of the postings. (We all assume it is true anyway, but since he never denied any of it we can conclude it is factual)
Thewho is a nice guy and tells the truth about everything. So now we wait and if thewho doesnt deny this statement then it becomes factual. Interesting rules.
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Ridiculous. Even Ken fucking Huey posted here. John IS posting here, formerly under the name TheWho, and now as an anon. He will never confront anyone at this site, because to do so would be to admit he's TheWho and then there would be no deniability for TheWho's awful and stupid commentary here. It would drive a stake thru the heart of his cash cow. So he continues to post anon. It ain't that deep. If any of this was UNTRUE, he'd be suing, guaranteed. Or at the very least denying. That ain't happening.
Yeah, If John Reuben was not theWho he would have sued by now.
Obviously, there are reasons people decide not to pursue libel suits for the printing of negative, nonfactual info about themselves, but none of them are present in this case.
He could prove he is not thwho simply, cheaply, and conclusively through legal means. And to sue for libel he wouldn't need to prove financial loss
That's true, but he won't do it. Why? Because there would be a subpoena for this website's records by the defendant to prove what s/he says is true, that thewho is John Rueben.
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Q
Ridiculous. Even Ken fucking Huey posted here. John IS posting here, formerly under the name TheWho, and now as an anon. He will never confront anyone at this site, because to do so would be to admit he's TheWho and then there would be no deniability for TheWho's awful and stupid commentary here. It would drive a stake thru the heart of his cash cow. So he continues to post anon. It ain't that deep. If any of this was UNTRUE, he'd be suing, guaranteed. Or at the very least denying. That ain't happening.
So if you post something about someone here on the forum and it goes unchallenged then it becomes fact? Hmmm. So we can conclude that Ajax13 is guilty of abusing his son sexually as has been posted several times here. He never denied any of the postings. (We all assume it is true anyway, but since he never denied any of it we can conclude it is factual)
Thewho is a nice guy and tells the truth about everything. So now we wait and if thewho doesnt deny this statement then it becomes factual. Interesting rules.
So since Ajax hasnt tried to sue fornits its pretty clear that he has been abusing his kid sexually. We all saw the postings and the laws. Why would he just let it go like that without any denial if it were not true?
He is a sick person and he should be trying to get his son help instead of covering it up. Does anyone know him? Can they contact him directly and see if they could reason with him outside of this website? At least try for the kids sake.
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Use ajax's real name while saying he molests his son, and see what happens.
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Use ajax's real name while saying he molests his son, and see what happens.
No one knows anyones name here. We are only guessing that thewho is John Reuben. No one knows for sure.
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Use ajax's real name while saying he molests his son, and see what happens.
He couldnt sue anyway because if he tried then the authorities would have to investigate the allegations to prove validity and then after they talked to his son (without Ajax in the room) he would end up in jail when his son told the police what goes on at night. So there would not be any lawsuit. Thats why he is laying low on this one.
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Use ajax's real name while saying he molests his son, and see what happens.
No one knows anyones name here. We are only guessing that thewho is John Reuben. No one knows for sure.
No. It's been said positively, John. You are the Who.
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Here's some questions, John. Did you think ever think it could be harmfully abusive and dangerous to have Michael kidnapped, then imprisoned in a closed institution ungoverned by any legal body and without authentication of the “therapy” it claimed to offer.
Do you feel responsible at all for what became of Micheal? Do you feel remorse? You said an ASR victim’s description of its abusive “therapy” synched with your own son’s description, but that your son benefited from it.
Considering your son is dead, would you like to reconsider the logic behind that statement?
Was posting his photo along with the message "addiction was the disease that took him" a way of postmortemly "winning," of “proving” that he was an addict, the position you and ASR, fought to make him accept for a long time.
Personally, I'd say "memorializing" him as an addict and everlasting example of how bad teens can end up humiliates him. Id say using his corpse as an ad for your business exploits him.
I’d say humiliating and exploiting him is something you rationalize as love. I’d say you’ve been doing that for a very, very long time.
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Use ajax's real name while saying he molests his son, and see what happens.
No one knows anyones name here. We are only guessing that thewho is John Reuben. No one knows for sure.
No. It's been said positively, John. You are the Who.
No. It's been said positively, Ajax. You are the Who
or
No. It's been said positively, John. You are Ajax
See what I mean? This abstract thinking just sails right over your head, Ajax, every time. You have no facts... you never do.
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Ridiculous. Even Ken fucking Huey posted here. John IS posting here, formerly under the name TheWho, and now as an anon. He will never confront anyone at this site, because to do so would be to admit he's TheWho and then there would be no deniability for TheWho's awful and stupid commentary here. It would drive a stake thru the heart of his cash cow. So he continues to post anon. It ain't that deep. If any of this was UNTRUE, he'd be suing, guaranteed. Or at the very least denying. That ain't happening.
So if you post something about someone here on the forum and it goes unchallenged then it becomes fact? Hmmm. So we can conclude that Ajax13 is guilty of abusing his son sexually as has been posted several times here. He never denied any of the postings. (We all assume it is true anyway, but since he never denied any of it we can conclude it is factual)
Thewho is a nice guy and tells the truth about everything. So now we wait and if thewho doesnt deny this statement then it becomes factual. Interesting rules.
Sorry, but you'll have to show us some proof TheWho is not John Reuben. Prove he isn't.
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Sorry, but you'll have to show us some proof TheWho is not John Reuben. Prove he isn't.
Sorry it doesnt work that way. Otherwise we would have to prove that thewho isnt Ajax13 or Robertbruce, or psy or antigen or Ursus etc.
Plus I emailed him and he said he wasnt.
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Wait...I'm confused. For several years you have been saying we have to provide evidence that programs don't work. You were fine with having us prove a negative.
Now you do it. John Reuben is TheWho unless you prove he isn't. We're just playing by your own rules, Who. Now show us some proof.
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Wait...I'm confused. For several years you have been saying we have to provide evidence that programs don't work. You were fine with having us prove a negative.
Now you do it. John Reuben is TheWho unless you prove he isn't. We're just playing by your own rules, Who. Now show us some proof.
Exactly, just provide proof of what you say, whether it be a positive or a negative. Simple. Otherwise anyone could just reword everything to be positive or negative to avoid the rules. So if you feel Reuben is thewho then provide your proof. If you feel strongly he is not thewho then provide proof also.
Until then we really dont know.
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Yes, so unless somebody can prove otherwise we all agree John Reuben is TheWho.
Thanks for agreeing with me guest!
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Yes, so unless somebody can prove otherwise we all agree John Reuben is TheWho.
Thanks for agreeing with me guest!
Exactly!! I think you see what I am saying. Anyone can make a statement and believe it all they want like your statement says. But until they provide some proof very few other people will be onboard with your beliefs...
See this:
John Rueben "is not" thewho. So unless someone can prove otherwise we all agree with this!!
So we are back to the point where we need to provide proof from either perspective (or vantage point) if you may. The burden of proof lays heavily on both perspectives.
This is a good discussion. I hope Ajax13 and Bruce are reading.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
:bump:
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Yes, so unless somebody can prove otherwise we all agree John Reuben is TheWho.
Thanks for agreeing with me guest!
Exactly!! I think you see what I am saying. Anyone can make a statement and believe it all they want like your statement says. But until they provide some proof very few other people will be onboard with your beliefs...
See this:
John Rueben "is not" thewho. So unless someone can prove otherwise we all agree with this!!
So we are back to the point where we need to provide proof from either perspective (or vantage point) if you may. The burden of proof lays heavily on both perspectives.
This is a good discussion. I hope Ajax13 and Bruce are reading.
So we are back to this? I do see what you are saying, but good luck, Ajax and Bruce do not discuss anything they just attack, derail or ignore questions and discussions. Dont even bother and dont start that here.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
:bump:
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Yes, so unless somebody can prove otherwise we all agree John Reuben is TheWho.
Thanks for agreeing with me guest!
Exactly!! I think you see what I am saying. Anyone can make a statement and believe it all they want like your statement says. But until they provide some proof very few other people will be onboard with your beliefs...
See this:
John Rueben "is not" thewho. So unless someone can prove otherwise we all agree with this!!
So we are back to the point where we need to provide proof from either perspective (or vantage point) if you may. The burden of proof lays heavily on both perspectives.
This is a good discussion. I hope Ajax13 and Bruce are reading.
My vote is for each person to provide proof of what they state. whether that be positive or negative. That seems to be more fair then having one side being the one with the burden of proof.
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The burden of proof is on the one making the statement period.
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Exactly correct. So now we're waiting to see proof that any programs work and to see proof TheWho is not John Reuben. Until someone shows some real hard evidence to the contrary, this is where we are.
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Exactly correct. So now we're waiting to see proof that any programs work and to see proof TheWho is not John Reuben. Until someone shows some real hard evidence to the contrary, this is where we are.
Exactly and since we dont have any proof we just dont know who TheWho is or how effective programs are.
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Exactly correct. So now we're waiting to see proof that any programs work and to see proof TheWho is not John Reuben. Until someone shows some real hard evidence to the contrary, this is where we are.
Exactly and since we dont have any proof we just dont know who TheWho is or how effective programs are.
This is great we are getting right down to the foundation. It seems we agree on a very fundamental level.
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You know, if John D. Rueben doesn't read Fornits someone is doing it for him, otherwise there wouldn't be this strenuous and desperate effort to disconnect thewho from John Reuben.
It doesn't matter if Reuben is thewho or not - Reuben is evil on his own merit. He remains on this Ahab-like quest pushing the Great White Whale of Aspen even though his son died despite being shoved through the program system. Reuben should realize how ASR would rationalize his son's death if they were asked why he died after their treatment: He didn't make use of the program's "tools", or his parents didn't follow through on maintenance. In other words, John Reuben and his son are failures in the eyes of ASR.
Nothing changes the fact that John D. Reuben cannot say "without ASR, my son would be dead or in jail". Michael died, despite the programs. It sounds cruel to put that so bluntly, but John Reuben is backing people like Lon Woodbury who use the dead or in jail cliche as a selling tool. Reuben knows firsthand that a program is no guarantee that a child won't end up dead or in jail, yet he persists in program mongering. For that he should be held accountable.
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You know, if John D. Rueben doesn't read Fornits someone is doing it for him, otherwise there wouldn't be this strenuous and desperate effort to disconnect thewho from John Reuben.
It doesn't matter if Reuben is thewho or not - Reuben is evil on his own merit. He remains on this Ahab-like quest pushing the Great White Whale of Aspen even though his son died despite being shoved through the program system. Reuben should realize how ASR would rationalize his son's death if they were asked why he died after their treatment: He didn't make use of the program's "tools", or his parents didn't follow through on maintenance. In other words, John Reuben and his son are failures in the eyes of ASR.
Nothing changes the fact that John D. Reuben cannot say "without ASR, my son would be dead or in jail". Michael died, despite the programs. It sounds cruel to put that so bluntly, but John Reuben is backing people like Lon Woodbury who use the dead or in jail cliche as a selling tool. Reuben knows firsthand that a program is no guarantee that a child won't end up dead or in jail, yet he persists in program mongering. For that he should be held accountable.
I have been reading thru the posts here and I dont see the connection between this program he attended and his sons death. How were they connected? Wasnt his son like 30 years old when he died?
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You know, if John D. Rueben doesn't read Fornits someone is doing it for him, otherwise there wouldn't be this strenuous and desperate effort to disconnect thewho from John Reuben.
It doesn't matter if Reuben is thewho or not - Reuben is evil on his own merit. He remains on this Ahab-like quest pushing the Great White Whale of Aspen even though his son died despite being shoved through the program system. Reuben should realize how ASR would rationalize his son's death if they were asked why he died after their treatment: He didn't make use of the program's "tools", or his parents didn't follow through on maintenance. In other words, John Reuben and his son are failures in the eyes of ASR.
Nothing changes the fact that John D. Reuben cannot say "without ASR, my son would be dead or in jail". Michael died, despite the programs. It sounds cruel to put that so bluntly, but John Reuben is backing people like Lon Woodbury who use the dead or in jail cliche as a selling tool. Reuben knows firsthand that a program is no guarantee that a child won't end up dead or in jail, yet he persists in program mongering. For that he should be held accountable.
I have been reading thru the posts here and I dont see the connection between this program he attended and his sons death. How were they connected? Wasnt his son like 30 years old when he died?
RIP - Michael Joshua Reuben (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26615), age 22.
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If there was any real evidence that programs were damaging then it would be presented. But since evidence is lacking many here work to exploit events that are unrelated to the programs themselves. This lack of evidence actually strengthens the common belief that programs are extremely effective otherwise there would not be a need to present events which occurred years after graduation.
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I have been reading thru the posts here and I dont see the connection between this program he attended and his sons death. How were they connected? Wasnt his son like 30 years old when he died?
The program the young man attended was ASR. The program is sold to parents as the only option to keep their children from ending up "dead or in jail". One would hope the treatment would have a lasting effect, but alas, there is no proof programs have any long-term beneficial value or any worth at all. Call ASR or any other program for information on the number of post-treatment suicides and criminal convictions, they'll be happy to share their failure rates with you.
Reuben placed his son in ASR to keep him from dying or ending up in jail. The program failed and Michael died of an overdose.
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Imagine if we used this same rationale at our own highschool if a classmate died?
Jim Remnal died last Thursday from an overdose in his home. He attended Ridgemont high school later attended Yale University and completed his post graduate doctorate work at Harvard. He started up and ran his own research firm.
Conclusion: Ridgemont high school must have been too tough on him, wasnt very effective and let him down!! Ha,Ha,Ha
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This lack of evidence actually strengthens the common belief that programs are extremely effective otherwise there would not be a need to present events which occurred years after graduation.
Years? Michael Reuben was 22 yrs. old, for God's sake. He was barely a year past the drinking age when he died of an overdose. How long had he been shunt of ASR? Long enough for the PTSD to set in?
Poster, do you believe that what happens to kids post-program is in no way connected to the treatment they received? Interesting, because by that logic you can't cite any "successes" years after graduation. Don't most programs parade out old alumni to impress potential paying parents? Show them the other side as well, then, and don't let what happened to Michael Reuben get swept under the rug or exploited by his father.
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If there was any real evidence that programs were damaging then it would be presented. But since evidence is lacking many here work to exploit events that are unrelated to the programs themselves. This lack of evidence actually strengthens the common belief that programs are extremely effective otherwise there would not be a need to present events which occurred years after graduation.
Michael was just 22 when he died. This is barely after program.
Psychological effects from programs last long past the time the kid is actually IN the program, especially in cases where outright abuse occurred. Otherwise, you wouldn't have people here still posting about the experience in negative and angry terms, decades later. This, in and of itself, is evidence enough that programs can be quite damaging.
Seems to me that posting on forums about one's experience isn't the only way that such effects manifest themselves. Dysfunctional relations with family, friends, and the rest of society is another. So is resumed or increased drug abuse. So is suicide.
I think you can safely assume that Michael Reuben's preexisting dysfunctional family relations, presumably preexisting heroin abuse, SUW and ASR experiences all played a factor in his premature demise.
One thing is for sure: his program experiences do not appear to have helped matters!
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Drug addiction is a life time struggle. The best any of us can do is to stablize and educate people on the dangers of addiction. The rest is up to the person themselves on how (and if) they wish to apply it.
Is anyone aware of other methods which are more effective?
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Drug addiction is a life time struggle. The best any of us can do is to stablize and educate people on the dangers of addiction. The rest is up to the person themselves on how (and if) they wish to apply it.
Is anyone aware of other methods which are more effective?
Quitting.
Why is what happens to an in individual post-program not an indicator of the program's efficacy? Are the deaths and criminal convictions brushed aside as the failures of the individual, but "successful" alumni are proof of the programs success years after graduation?
Why don't programs allow parents to know the potential dangers of program placements, ie., the risk of physical harm and death, psychological damage, and the very real possibility the program will have no effect if the child doesn't "apply it". (Nice program-speak there)
STICC tells folks all the good things programs promise. Fornits shows the harsh reality of program failure.and incompetence.
Parents should be able to make a decision based on all the information, yes? Why do programs demand 100% compliance and blind faith when they don't present all the information available?
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Why is what happens to an in individual post-program not an indicator of the program's efficacy? Are the deaths and criminal convictions brushed aside as the failures of the individual, but "successful" alumni are proof of the programs success years after graduation?
Every business puts their best foot foward. Car dealerships hardly ever have pictures of car accidents on the wall or warn you of recalls on the car you are considering. It stands to reason that the program would like to show parents the successful side.
Why don't programs allow parents to know the potential dangers of program placements, ie., the risk of physical harm and death, psychological damage, and the very real possibility the program will have no effect if the child doesn't "apply it". (Nice program-speak there)
They do, to some extent. There are no promises. They dont promise to cure addiction and if the risk of harm or death was a greater risk than anywhere else then the parents would be warned. But I have never seen any info which shows programs to be a higher risk to kids. Most programs supply a lower risk environment than the one they are coming from.
STICC tells folks all the good things programs promise. Fornits shows the harsh reality of program failure.and incompetence.
Parents should be able to make a decision based on all the information, yes? Why do programs demand 100% compliance and blind faith when they don't present all the information available?
Probably the same reason that fornits doesn’t make a huge effort to present the successes of programs. We dont get all the information here on fornits. We mostly see just the failures and incompetent or under qualified staff.
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Poster, do you believe that what happens to kids post-program is in no way connected to the treatment they received? Interesting, because by that logic you can't cite any "successes" years after graduation. Don't most programs parade out old alumni to impress potential paying parents? Show them the other side as well, then, and don't let what happened to Michael Reuben get swept under the rug or exploited by his father.
Interesting question. If you have a child who has dropped out of school and has no interest in returning or interest in living by the basic family rules and then post program you have a child who completed college and has rebuilt their family ties then this could be considered a turn around by the program he/she attended.
On the other hand if the child is struggling with the same issues and also has a family history of addiction then the child may get turned around and placed on the right track but the addiction is going to always be with him/her. The family and child knows this. This is why a return to drugs or an overdose cannot be tied back to the program as a cause. It is something that has always been there which there is no cure for.
People who attend AA meetings and then years later return to drinking cant stand there and blame AA for their regression. I dont see how the 2 are tied together in that way, as one being the cause of the other.
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Poster, do you believe that what happens to kids post-program is in no way connected to the treatment they received? Interesting, because by that logic you can't cite any "successes" years after graduation. Don't most programs parade out old alumni to impress potential paying parents? Show them the other side as well, then, and don't let what happened to Michael Reuben get swept under the rug or exploited by his father.
Interesting question. If you have a child who has dropped out of school and has no interest in returning or interest in living by the basic family rules and then post program you have a child who completed college and has rebuilt their family ties then this could be considered a turn around by the program he/she attended.
On the other hand if the child is struggling with the same issues and also has a family history of addiction then the child may get turned around and placed on the right track but the addiction is going to always be with him/her. The family and child knows this. This is why a return to drugs or an overdose cannot be tied back to the program as a cause. It is something that has always been there which there is no cure for.
People who attend AA meetings and then years later return to drinking cant stand there and blame AA for their regression. I dont see how the 2 are tied together in that way, as one being the cause of the other.
Alright. So it's individual initiative, then? That begs the question whether "successes" have anything to do with the program at all. Some teens get through their difficult periods without being sent to programs through a unique method unknown to you - they mature, and they do it on their own.
People who attend AA meetings and then years later return to drinking cant stand there and blame AA for their regression. I dont see how the 2 are tied together in that way, as one being the cause of the other.
People (hopefully) attend AA of their own free will, and AA doesn't charge thousands of dollars. If it fails you blame yourself, and I've never heard of anyone being killed in a restraint during an AA meeting. You said it before, programs are businesses and people have a right to complain when a service they paid for kills or fucks up their kids. Don't you agree? Programs put their "best foot forward" to attract customers, but the foot they are hiding is crippled and gangrenous.
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Alright. So it's individual initiative, then? That begs the question whether "successes" have anything to do with the program at all. Some teens get through their difficult periods without being sent to programs through a unique method unknown to you - they mature, and they do it on their own.
Long term, it could be an argument. When does the program responsibility end and the childs begin? Interesting question. Placing the kid back on track is 100% the programs. Whether or not it sticks is up to the child. If the kid comes out and goes back to school and then heads off the path again then that was the choice of the child to go back to their old ways.
People (hopefully) attend AA of their own free will, and AA doesn't charge thousands of dollars.
So cost is a big issue with you.
If it fails you blame yourself, and I've never heard of anyone being killed in a restraint during an AA meeting.
No I haven’t either. But there are plenty that overdose a few hours later, killed in car accidents after leaving the bar etc. In a program you dont have that type of access to substances which could harm you. Those decisions are taken off the table while you are there.
You said it before, programs are businesses and people have a right to complain when a service they paid for kills or fucks up their kids. Don't you agree?
Of Course they do and if the child is harmed by the program the parent should sue and have the place investigated or shut down.
Programs put their "best foot forward" to attract customers, but the foot they are hiding is crippled and gangrenous.
Could be, depending on the program. This is why I always say the parents should always look deeper...ask for references, speak to other parents. Read up and get local opinions from therapists and schools.
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Long term, it could be an argument. When does the program responsibility end and the childs begin? Interesting question. Placing the kid back on track is 100% the programs. Whether or not it sticks is up to the child. If the kid comes out and goes back to school and then heads off the path again then that was the choice of the child to go back to their old ways.
Someone needs to do a 10 yr. study, then.
So cost is a big issue with you.
Now, now. I was merely pointing out AA is not a business interested in exploitation for profit. My views on finances are not an issue and not being discussed, right?
Could be, depending on the program. This is why I always say the parents should always look deeper...ask for references, speak to other parents. Read up and get local opinions from therapists and schools.
You forgot the simplest method: run the program name through an internet search engine, or is that something you would encourage parents to avoid?
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Someone needs to do a 10 yr. study, then.
I agree, the more studies the better
Now, now. I was merely pointing out AA is not a business interested in exploitation for profit. My views on finances are not an issue and not being discussed, right?
No it isn’t for profit. Your point wasn’t clear, thats why I made the comment. I dont see how the cost plays into this.
You forgot the simplest method: run the program name through an internet search engine, or is that something you would encourage parents to avoid?
That too. I would encourage parents to gain as much information as possible. I know that many here are against parents branching out and doing this but I believe the more information they get the better equipped they will be to make a decision.
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No it isn’t for profit. Your point wasn’t clear, thats why I made the comment. I dont see how the cost plays into this.
Let me break it down simply for you: tuition for programs can run $100K and up. Cost is a factor to families who aren't as privileged as yourself, especially those who mortgage their homes to pay for what they are led to believe will save their child. Imagine the horror of a family hocking all they own to pay the cost of program tuition only to have their child be killed by staff.
Simply being able to afford to put a child in a program is no reason to do it.
I would encourage parents to gain as much information as possible. I know that many here are against parents branching out and doing this but I believe the more information they get the better equipped they will be to make a decision.
Then you would encourage them to come to Fornits, correct? It may be an error in perception, but you seem to view the posters on Fornits with extreme distaste. Do you consider Fornits to be without merit when it comes to researching a program?
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Let me break it down simply for you: tuition for programs can run $100K and up. Cost is a factor to families who aren't as privileged as yourself, especially those who mortgage their homes to pay for what they are led to believe will save their child. Imagine the horror of a family hocking all they own to pay the cost of program tuition only to have their child be killed by staff.
Simply being able to afford to put a child in a program is no reason to do it.
I think losing a child would be a horror even if it were free. Trying to place a price on a child doesn’t work for me. The cost of the programs are determined by the families not the programs.
Then you would encourage them to come to Fornits, correct? It may be an error in perception, but you seem to view the posters on Fornits with extreme distaste. Do you consider Fornits to be without merit when it comes to researching a program?
I feel parents should have access to all the information they can to make their decision (fornits included). From what I have read posters here would rarely suggest parents gather information outside of anti program sites and I think that is wrong. People should be open to make up their own minds.
Would you direct a parent to Struggling teens site or to the individual program sites to get their questions answered?
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I think losing a child would be a horror even if it were free. Trying to place a price on a child doesn’t work for me. The cost of the programs are determined by the families not the programs.
You'll have to explain your business model, then. How do families determine the cost, or is this some reference to what you do with STICC? Losing a child is a horror, but you miss the point: families are trying to save their children by paying for the most expensive program thinking they are saving their child, they want protection. In light of that, your inability to understand how the extraordinary costs of programs conflict with the treatment looks like a dodge.
I feel parents should have access to all the information they can to make their decision (fornits included). From what I have read posters here would rarely suggest parents gather information outside of anti program sites and I think that is wrong. People should be open to make up their own minds.
Would you direct a parent to Struggling teens site or to the individual program sites to get their questions answered?
ST has a history of not tolerating opposing viewpoints - they couldn't censor their forum enough so they locked it down. I would not encourage any parent to visit a site that still allows military-style boot camps for teens to advertise. At least on Fornits you are here to provide the opposing view, right? ST does not provide the same. Despite your criticism of Fornits, you are here and sharing your views. Program survivors aren't allowed at your table.
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You'll have to explain your business model, then. How do families determine the cost, or is this some reference to what you do with STICC? Losing a child is a horror, but you miss the point: families are trying to save their children by paying for the most expensive program thinking they are saving their child, they want protection. In light of that, your inability to understand how the extraordinary costs of programs conflict with the treatment looks like a dodge.
I dont do anything with STICC nor am I associated with it and I dont have a business model for programs. The price of anything you purchase is determined via supply and demand. If everyone stopped buying weed the price would drop to pennies. If we found out that weed was a wonder drug that preserved life then demand would out run supply and you would pay thru the nose for a single blunt. The same with programs... the more they build the lower the cost will be. There are many people who cannot afford kidney transplants because there are not enough to go around.
ST has a history of not tolerating opposing viewpoints - they couldn't censor their forum enough so they locked it down. I would not encourage any parent to visit a site that still allows military-style boot camps for teens to advertise. At least on Fornits you are here to provide the opposing view, right? ST does not provide the same. Despite your criticism of Fornits, you are here and sharing your views. Program survivors aren't allowed at your table.
So your tried to rationalize your answer , but it is still no. So one of the differences between us is I direct and encourage parents to learn as much as possible from all perspectives and you do not.
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I think losing a child would be a horror even if it were free. Trying to place a price on a child doesn’t work for me. The cost of the programs are determined by the families not the programs.
You'll have to explain your business model, then. How do families determine the cost, or is this some reference to what you do with STICC? Losing a child is a horror, but you miss the point: families are trying to save their children by paying for the most expensive program thinking they are saving their child, they want protection. In light of that, your inability to understand how the extraordinary costs of programs conflict with the treatment looks like a dodge.
I feel parents should have access to all the information they can to make their decision (fornits included). From what I have read posters here would rarely suggest parents gather information outside of anti program sites and I think that is wrong. People should be open to make up their own minds.
Would you direct a parent to Struggling teens site or to the individual program sites to get their questions answered?
ST has a history of not tolerating opposing viewpoints - they couldn't censor their forum enough so they locked it down. I would not encourage any parent to visit a site that still allows military-style boot camps for teens to advertise. At least on Fornits you are here to provide the opposing view, right? ST does not provide the same. Despite your criticism of Fornits, you are here and sharing your views. Program survivors aren't allowed at your table.
Well said! But :wall: You're dealing with TheWho, aka John Reuben of STICC, here. He's conceded your argument already by resorting to ad hominems. :beat: He's already moved beyond the realm of sound argument and he ain't comin' back, baby!
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He's conceded your argument already by resorting to ad hominems.
He has argued clearly and there have been no personal attacks of any kind from him. Why do you troll this thread?
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He's conceded your argument already by resorting to ad hominems.
He has argued clearly and there have been no personal attacks of any kind from him. Why do you troll this thread?
It doesn't matter about the who; he's a non-issue. His trolling has gotten flabby during his hiatus and it's obvious he didn't spend his down time self searching or researching. John Reuben is a monstrous asshole on the level of Sue Scheff and the topic of this thread. However, if it can be proven he did post as the who, his STICC will be up his ass. While Reuben may not profit from STICC, Lon Toolbury and Aspen do. STICC's non-profit status is a little questionable, too. Contact the IRS, put every type of heat on Rueben's STICC. Have the IRS investigate parents who wrote off a program on their taxes - someone is telling the fools it's legit to get them to sign the admission papers. AUDIT! AUDIT!
And fuck the who/John D. Reuben/programees as a whole. There is only one programee, with many names and faces.
(He is pissed off, though. See above post and ignore him. Sweetness.)
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While Reuben may not profit from STICC...
Are you sure about that? :D
I kinda like how Whooter explained it in these four posts from the Triple the Fraud at AARC thread (May 28-29, 2009):
#1: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26946#p332439 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26946#p332439)
In all likelihood the money is off-shored. The Caribbean is my best for the final destination of the "Miracle". The Bahamas, Barbados, Bermuda or the Caymans seem likeliest. Any AARColytes travelling to Vanuatu recently?
Nah, he can keep all of it he likes. There is no law against getting rich off of a company you started. The donors dont care because they get their tax cut no matter what is done with the money. Take a look at the drug companies (or drug dealers!!) and what they are putting in their pocket or the oil companies. The Wiz doesnt even come close to their profit margin.
#2: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26946#p332444 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26946#p332444)
AARC is not a company that the Wiz started. He is not entitled to take whatever lucre he can from the organization. It is a registered charity, originally funded by the Rotary Club and the Provincial Government of Alberta. AARC operates in an industrial park out of a former warehouse joined to a former seismic shop. The facility does not operate specialized medical equipment, nor does it have residential services. It keeps between thirty and sixty people during daylight hours. The staff, aside from the two nurses, are not professionals. There are teachers, paid for by the Calgary Board of Education. Thus, in a setting equivalent to a school with sixty students, AARC takes in six or so million dollars a year, but unlike a school, AARC does not have to pay the salaries of professional staff. Millions upon millions of dollars are disappearing into this black hole every year. This money is, as stated above, likely ending up in an offshore tax haven.
No, I am sure it goes to the board members. They are the ones running the place, after expenses they are entitled to their share. Look at the bonuses the banks in the states are giving out. A few million a year isnt much compared to what most other places are getting.
Salaries before bonuses.
Charities:
World Vision
http://www.worldvision.org (http://www.worldvision.org)
Richard Stearns, President: $407,799
Children International
http://www.Children.org (http://www.Children.org)
Jim Cook CEO: $365,700
Save The Children
http://www.savethechildren.org (http://www.savethechildren.org)
Charles MacCormack, President: $336,335
Christian's Children's Fund
http://www.ChristianChildrensFund.org (http://www.ChristianChildrensFund.org)
John Shultz President: $290,799
#3: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26946&start=15#p332477 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26946&start=15#p332477)
They money is very likely being offshored. AARC wages to employees account for less than two million per year, out of the six million taken in by AARC each year. The original Forge Rd building was paid off long ago, and the expansion into the digs formerly occupied by AARC parent Peter Boyd's AARCIS was entirely funded over two years ago. Thus, each year, millions of dollars are vanishing through AARC.
It could be going off shored if the board members felt more comfortable with that, but after all expenses, expansions etc. the remaining money goes to the board members to do with as they please. Some may send it off shore (as was suggested). Others may choose to invest it in the market or summer/ investment property, upgrade their existing residence etc.
Check some of the leading charities' financial reports and compare them to AARC. You will see they keep the books pretty much the same. Charity or non profit doesnt mean the employees and board members dont make a profit. It means the company (or entity) doesnt grow thru increased profit each year. The money gets spent.
#4: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26946&start=15#p332481 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=26946&start=15#p332481)
A nonprofit organization is an organization that does not distribute its surplus funds to owners or shareholders, but instead uses them only to help pursue its goals. If an organization is to qualify for tax exempt status, the organization must specify that no part of its assets shall benefit any of it's members, directors, officers or agents (its principals). Misappropriation of funds is a.) fraud, and b.) a felony.
Sure, but if the nonprofit is nearing the end of the fiscal year and see that they are in a strong financial position for that year then they can distribute funds in the form or bonuses or "one-time wage adjustment" to employees of that nonprofit, but they need to avoid the term bonus when recording these into the books. This is legal as long as the employees of the nonprofit are motivated by the pleasure of their work and not the money.
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Wow, good find, Ursus. Wish I could use the search function that well. I used this to explain non profit to Ajax13 at one point. Although I am not familiar with Canadian law so it may be a little different.
But basically Rueben can make a profit but STICC’s cannot. At the end of the year they have to have a zero balance. So as the end of the year comes around and there is still a million or two in the non profit businesses account then the board is faced with the dilemma of putting an addition on his summer home, handing out one time salary adjustments to employees or sponsoring a few more kids to programs or both so that all the money is spent by the end of the year.
Similar to your local government…if it doesn’t snow a lot this year they can’t carry over the snow removal budget to next year they need to spend it. They cant give out bonuses but they can buy new equipment or desks for the school etc. to spend down the excess so that the town isn’t making a profit.
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TheWho claimed no income from programs, but his words don't mean shit. How's the daughter?
John D. Reuben is the ultimate program parent: not one but both sons were packed off to programs. Reuben is the ultimate narcissistic personality, the kids hit their teens and interfere with him, off they go. When all your kids end up in programs, it is a good indication there's a problem with the parenting.
Death and misery follow this guy. What role he played in his wife's death is unknown but Max held it against him. Despite the failure of the programs Reuben cannot accept blame or failure and continues to push his Aspen. Typical narcissist. Look at what John D. Reuben did to his family, folks. Why would any parent look to this guy for advice? What "success" stories does he have?
It is obvious why Lon Woodbury and John D. Reuben are in bed together (STICC, don't you know), they are obsessed with "parental rights" in placements. They assume all parents are sane and reasonable. Look at what Reuben did, does it look like he should be making choices for vulnerable teens? Look what he does now, does he appear sane and rational? He is a victimizer and he reaped the bitter fruit of his actions and he still has blinders on to the horrible end he brought to his family. Bastard. Don't let him sway other parents to duplicate his "success".
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When all your kids end up in programs, it is a good indication there's a problem with the parenting.
I see what you are saying, seems we agree somewhat. So when the other siblings are doing okay and its just the one kid that needs a program then its a good indication it is just the kid who has the problem. This has actually been my argument also.
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When all your kids end up in programs, it is a good indication there's a problem with the parenting.
I see what you are saying, seems we agree somewhat. So when the other siblings are doing okay and its just the one kid that needs a program then its a good indication it is just the kid who has the problem. This has actually been my argument also.
Unless the kid has a parent like John D. Reuben who is not competent enough to exercise parental choice. If he had only one child the situation would have been the same. There are various grades of bad parents, with Reuben and his ilk being the worst. It is a shame programs will admit any child as long as the parents present the money. Once someone like Reuben puts a kid in a program, the program lets them dictate the treatment.
Was Reuben's son Max sent away to silence the boy? It points out another misuse of parental choice - what better way to stifle a child who has information that could put you in jail than putting them in a program, where the cardinal rule is to say the kids are lying about everything? A kid in an RTC is not going to be considered credible, and any parent can buy their kid's silence from a program. The program may even help cover up if the money is there. How many kids end up in programs because their parents viewed them as liabilities or potential witnesses?
Parental choice over clinical necessity is bullshit, especially when the parent(s) are mentally FUBAR like John D. Reuben.
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When all your kids end up in programs, it is a good indication there's a problem with the parenting.
I see what you are saying, seems we agree somewhat. So when the other siblings are doing okay and its just the one kid that needs a program then its a good indication it is just the kid who has the problem. This has actually been my argument also.
This typifies program parent thinking and is of course profitable for the programs. Many parents are convinced that their child is the problem. A problem parent cannot or will not accept personal responsibility, and will outsource their child. It’s about mitigating their own awareness of their failings and it prevents the family any opportunity of honest dialogue and authentic changes from within the family as a whole.
It's sad that a parent would sacrifice a child to maintain such a self serving family narrative. It's The bad seed myth they're buying into.
In doing so, they cost their family dearly.
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When all your kids end up in programs, it is a good indication there's a problem with the parenting.
I see what you are saying, seems we agree somewhat. So when the other siblings are doing okay and its just the one kid that needs a program then its a good indication it is just the kid who has the problem. This has actually been my argument also.
Unless the kid has a parent like John D. Reuben
Yes there are exceptions. I would agree that if all the kids in the family needed to be placed then there is something going on with the entire family or parenting. But if all the kids are doing fine and there is one who is struggling then it is clearly not a parenting issue. You dont need a professional to figure that out.
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When all your kids end up in programs, it is a good indication there's a problem with the parenting.
I see what you are saying, seems we agree somewhat. So when the other siblings are doing okay and its just the one kid that needs a program then its a good indication it is just the kid who has the problem. This has actually been my argument also.
Unless the kid has a parent like John D. Reuben
Yes there are exceptions. I would agree that if all the kids in the family needed to be placed then there is something going on with the entire family or parenting. But if all the kids are doing fine and there is one who is struggling then it is clearly not a parenting issue. You dont need a professional to figure that out.
No, no, no...that's Lon Woodbury logic, and the point is ALL placements need to be done out of clinical necessity, not parental choice. The "one kid" thing doesn't hold water. What if the one kid is a step child being ousted by a new step parent? (Stephen Fredricksen, the young man in the TB documentary, for example) Or the one kid is the whipping child for the dominant parent.
No, you are wrong. You need a professional opinion, it's the only way to protect the child's rights. This forum is rife with stories of kids farmed out to programs by abusive/narcissistic parents. Any parent who is reluctant to get a professional opinion should set off alarms. You need to break out of the ST group think about parental rights and learn more about demented parents like John D. Reuben. There is the prime example of a parent abusing his parental choice, with a dead son being the horrible lesson. Reuben didn't learn from it, so we must make sure others learn from his folly.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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What if the one kid is a step child being ousted by a new step parent? (Stephen Fredricksen, the young man in the TB documentary, for example) Or the one kid is the whipping child for the dominant parent.
Of course there are exceptions and I understand what you are saying. We cant sit here and say the problem is with the parents or with the child. This can only be determined by a third party......... there are tons of probabilities....What if the other kids in the family are doing fine and the parents treat all the kids equally but this one child just acts out? What if the parents are as engaged as can be but the one child just heads down a destructive path?
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What if the one kid is a step child being ousted by a new step parent? (Stephen Fredricksen, the young man in the TB documentary, for example) Or the one kid is the whipping child for the dominant parent.
Of course there are exceptions and I understand what you are saying. We cant sit here and say the problem is with the parents or with the child. This can only be determined by a third party......... there are tons of probabilities....What if the other kids in the family are doing fine and the parents treat all the kids equally but this one child just acts out? What if the parents are as engaged as can be but the one child just heads down a destructive path?
The parents should seek help from licensed healthcare providers using proven treatment for their child's previously medically diagnosed issue for which they got second opinions before they engaged any services. Duh.
Only people like John D. Reuben think "This kid is ruining my life. Where can I send him to to keep him from cramping my lifestyle?" is the correct answer to your question.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
John D Reuben killed his kid, and he's after more. Saving Teen In Crisis Collaborative is John d reuben's vampiric suck of life blood, and attempt to leave more victims as dead as his own son.
Aspen Education Group does not provide a genuine therapeutic milieu that is conformative to standards set by any medical body for their "patients," as Aspen's own lawyers have successfully argued.
Aspen education group informed the police about the details of one of the confessions it mandates made by one "patient." The "patient's" parents sued for Aspens failure to provide a clinically valid therapeutic milieu, for failing to conform to medical standards, for violating the confidentiality of the patient/ therapist relationship, and for subjecting their "patient" to "therapy" from a group of people who were not licensed therapists.
Aspen Education Group's defense was that, yes, they failed to provide therapy that conforms to standards of medicine, but that was OK because they ONLY agreed
to provide...
"group and individual counseling as dictated by
PROGRAM design......NorthStar did not promise to do the things that plaintiffs
complain they failed to do, such as provide counseling by a
LICENSED counselor,2"
Aspen education Group argued that Expert the confessions the "patient" was expected to make was NOT part of a therapeutic treatment program, and that NorthStar was NOT a drug and alcohol or mental health therapy program.
Aspen Education Group argued largely SUCCESSFULLY that because their "patient's" therapist was unlicensed and because their employees were not actual medical personnel HiPPA statues did not apply to them
"Because she is not a licensed counselor and there is no evidence she is an employee of a
licensed counselor, Harless is not subject to confidentiality laws applicable to licensed counselors and their employees."
"There is insufficient evidence to conclude that there are no disputed issues of fact as to whether information conveyed by Harless to police was protected health information within the meaning of HIPAA, and whether NorthStar is a covered entity within the meaning of HIPAA."
http://www.websupp.org/data/DOR/6:05-cv ... 80-DOR.pdf (http://www.websupp.org/data/DOR/6:05-cv-06199-80-DOR.pdf)
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The parents should seek help from licensed healthcare providers using proven treatment for their child's previously medically diagnosed issue for which they got second opinions before they engaged any services. Duh.
Only people like John D. Reuben think "This kid is ruining my life. Where can I send him to to keep him from cramping my lifestyle?" is the correct answer to your question.
Exactly, we agree (smile). I have always been a strong advocate of parents getting a third party professional to sign off on any placement and that programs should be viewed as a last resort.
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Sooo... About John Reuben's connection to Aspen... John D. Reuben of STICC (an Aspen "feeder" organization) sends children to Aspen programs where they receive no treatment, as stated by AEG's attorneys, on public record, under oath, at trial.
Ladies and Gentlemen, please be duly advised that John D. Reuben and STICC knowingly and willfully send your children to Aspen programs where they will, by definition, not receive any treatment whatsover.
My bold prediction? There will be Whooter and maybe a few other die-hards here shortly arguing that the above facts don't make AEG's programs "bad," but rather they have been "proven effective" using their untrained, uneducated, unlicensed "counselors" despite the "legalese of the lawsuit" and many, many more parents, after having read said facts above, will send their kids to Aspen programs anyway.
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:bump:
This needs to stay near the top for a while. Aspen Education Group is nothing more than a bunch of con artists.
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Sooo... About John Reuben's connection to Aspen... John D. Reuben of STICC (an Aspen "feeder" organization) sends children to Aspen programs where they receive no treatment, as stated by AEG's attorneys, on public record, under oath, at trial.
Ladies and Gentlemen, please be duly advised that John D. Reuben and STICC knowingly and willfully send your children to Aspen programs where they will, by definition, not receive any treatment whatsover.
My bold prediction? There will be Whooter and maybe a few other die-hards here shortly arguing that the above facts don't make AEG's programs "bad," but rather they have been "proven effective" using their untrained, uneducated, unlicensed "counselors" despite the "legalese of the lawsuit" and many, many more parents, after having read said facts above, will send their kids to Aspen programs anyway.
Good point!
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What if the one kid is a step child being ousted by a new step parent? (Stephen Fredricksen, the young man in the TB documentary, for example) Or the one kid is the whipping child for the dominant parent.
Of course there are exceptions and I understand what you are saying. We cant sit here and say the problem is with the parents or with the child. This can only be determined by a third party......... there are tons of probabilities....What if the other kids in the family are doing fine and the parents treat all the kids equally but this one child just acts out? What if the parents are as engaged as can be but the one child just heads down a destructive path?
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What if the one kid is a step child being ousted by a new step parent? (Stephen Fredricksen, the young man in the TB documentary, for example) Or the one kid is the whipping child for the dominant parent.
Of course there are exceptions and I understand what you are saying. We cant sit here and say the problem is with the parents or with the child. This can only be determined by a third party......... there are tons of probabilities....What if the other kids in the family are doing fine and the parents treat all the kids equally but this one child just acts out? What if the parents are as engaged as can be but the one child just heads down a destructive path?
We can sit here and talk about kids and parents with problems all day, but the one thing that has become abundantly clear is no troubled teen will get help with their troubles from any Aspen program. They are not able to provide treatment and there are much better private boarding schools available. Don't you agree?
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What if the one kid is a step child being ousted by a new step parent? (Stephen Fredricksen, the young man in the TB documentary, for example) Or the one kid is the whipping child for the dominant parent.
Of course there are exceptions and I understand what you are saying. We cant sit here and say the problem is with the parents or with the child. This can only be determined by a third party......... there are tons of probabilities....What if the other kids in the family are doing fine and the parents treat all the kids equally but this one child just acts out? What if the parents are as engaged as can be but the one child just heads down a destructive path?
Then obviously the cause isnt the parents. The at-risk child needs to get help locally first to see if they can get them back to school.
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What if the one kid is a step child being ousted by a new step parent? (Stephen Fredricksen, the young man in the TB documentary, for example) Or the one kid is the whipping child for the dominant parent.
Of course there are exceptions and I understand what you are saying. We cant sit here and say the problem is with the parents or with the child. This can only be determined by a third party......... there are tons of probabilities....What if the other kids in the family are doing fine and the parents treat all the kids equally but this one child just acts out? What if the parents are as engaged as can be but the one child just heads down a destructive path?
We can sit here and talk about kids and parents with problems all day, but the one thing that has become abundantly clear is no troubled teen will get help with their troubles from any Aspen program. They are not able to provide treatment and there are much better private boarding schools available. Don't you agree?
Yes, I do agree. Very good point. Since Aspen admits that they don't offer treatment, there wouldn't be any use in sending my son there. Their lawyers probably saved us a lot of headache, heartache and wasted time and money.
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]
Yes, I do agree. Very good point. Since Aspen admits that they don't offer treatment, there wouldn't be any use in sending my son there. Their lawyers probably saved us a lot of headache, heartache and wasted time and money.
There you go, good question. To be honest with you these kids don’t need treatment. Most parents have tried all of the local options and they didn’t work. What their kid needs is structure, solid routine and some people to listen to them. They need to get their butts back into the classroom and give up the drugs for awhile until they mature enough to make a mature decision and balance their daily habits. They need to give their families a break so they can get back to a sane household again and focus on their other kids who haven’t had much attention lately due to the upheaval.
Aspen doesn’t need to offer treatment, they need to offer results! The studies indicate that better than 98% of all graduates move on to the college of their choice and integrate back into the family. The other 2% either don’t graduate and leave early or end up posting on fornits all day trying to justify that their parents fucked up or the program fucked them up but it wasn’t their own fault.
Treatment? pppfffsst.... controlled studies??? ppppfsst... by the time they are completed your kids will be finished college and you will have a little grandson bouncing on your knee.
I say let’s stop pussy footing around with all this crap and get your kid started on the path to success!! Please speak with our bursar (2nd door on the left) prior to filling out an application.. no sense wasting both of our times!!!
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First off, it wasn't a question, so your opening line was just dumb. Wish you'd get back in to a classroom, save us all a lot of annoying replies, but as I mentioned earlier, I am feeling charitable towards you tonight, so I will do my best to give you the endless attention you crave. You know, someone to just listen and talk to you.
The poster was making what is known as a statement. That because of the revelation that Aspen provides no actual therapy or professional counseling, parents seeking such, as they were, are happy to know about Aspen's lack of an actual program for treatment before they spend thousands on something their child does not need.
You see, what parents are looking for is help and the best possible advice they can get. Advice our parents did not receive before sending us off to these fix-all programs. And though this site isn't primarily about giving advice to parents, we are more than happy to share our personal experiences with them. Not yours. We don't speak for you, we speak based on our experiences, and that is clearly something difficult for you to accept at your age. As you get older and develop some maturity, this will not be such a problem for you to spot. I can see you still have that teenager awkwardness when communicating with adults, and that is fine. It is natural and you should not feel bad about this. And some day when you attend college, you might be able to take some real courses that Aspen probably did not provide you, such as Speech and Debate. Such a class would be extremely helpful to you.
Though you were obviously a failure in school, failing to attend and using drugs as your last post suggests, many of us did not have such problems. And there were quite a number of students at my school who actually needed real psychological counseling and treatment related to mental illness and in some instances dealing with issues of being molested as children, or abandoned. What the parents above was commenting on was that if the parent needs actual licensed, professional counseling and treatment for their child, Aspen, which does not provide this, is not a good choice. Your position that all kids need is a little structure and a kick in the ass that will somehow catapult them in to maturity, miraculously bequeathing the power to make strong life choices all on their own, is silly. Of course teenagers often retain a certain Superman-complex well in to their twenties, believing simple solutions, usually involving violence or instant achievement with no work involved is a the best course of action. As adults, we have to look at things with a little more depth and thought, especially where our children are concerned.
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Aspen doesn’t need to offer treatment, they need to offer results!
Yes! And under your logic, I could get you to stop posting by punching your face in so bad that your skull caves in. Problem solved!
So, what you're saying here is that any means necessary is fine with you as long as there are results. Aspen thinks the same way. Anyway, by your admission that Aspen doesn't provide treatment we can invalidate any claims you made about studies of treatment outcomes. Thanks for the admission, even if it took you five years to tell the truth.
You must really hate children to subject them to this quackery.
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John Reuben and Saving Teens send kids to Aspen programs. Why does John Reuben do this when Aspen has admitted their programs offer no treatment of any kind under any legal or conventional definition? None. They said they offer "no treatment, medical or psychological." Why then is John Reuben and Saving Teens sending kids there? Must be THE MONEY.
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Well, it's sure not for the welfare of the kids. Why send them to Aspen if they won't get any treatment for their issues? Seems silly to me to spend hundred of thousands of dollars for nothing.
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Sooo... About John Reuben's connection to Aspen... John D. Reuben of STICC (an Aspen "feeder" organization) sends children to Aspen programs where they receive no treatment, as stated by AEG's attorneys, on public record, under oath, at trial.
Ladies and Gentlemen, please be duly advised that John D. Reuben and STICC knowingly and willfully send your children to Aspen programs where they will, by definition, not receive any treatment whatsover.
My bold prediction? There will be Whooter and maybe a few other die-hards here shortly arguing that the above facts don't make AEG's programs "bad," but rather they have been "proven effective" using their untrained, uneducated, unlicensed "counselors" despite the "legalese of the lawsuit" and many, many more parents, after having read said facts above, will send their kids to Aspen programs anyway.
I hope any parents offered 'help' by John Reuben and STICC read this and understand he refers kids to programs that practice therapy without a license. It's criminal
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ASR, an unlicesned treatment center run by Aspen Education, killed John Reuben's son by neglect. They offered him no treatment for his drug habit and he got out and overdosed and died. Now John wants to send your kid there, too. He's a very sick individual.
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THIS is the thread TheWho REALLY wants to go away. He spends days arguing with RMA survivor derailing some other thread for fun while he watches this one sink down the list. No worries. I'm here to bump it back up where it belongs. He won't even troll this thread because to troll it means to keep it at the top, something he's desperate to avoid, lest Fornits cut into his kickback scheme with Aspen. I'm onto you, Whooter.
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Are you saying my endless argument on other threads are messing with the program?
In all seriousness I agree that there are a number of recent threads that are far more important and should remain current topics, especially for parents who visit. On the one hand this site serves to help survivors tell their stories, and on the other, many of us really want to expose the programs for what they are and hopefully save a few teens from going to them along the way.
Though I have never heard of this John Reuben fellow, he sounds like a carbon copy version of Lon Woodbury. Paid by the system to sell the system.
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One of his partnes IS Lon Toolbury. He's sneakier than Toolbury though. He dresses up as "nonprofit" but sends kids to Aspen programs on a kickback schedule.
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Sounds typical of this industry.
--Using small one liners to keep this thread on top so nobody can claim I don't do my part! :twofinger:
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Maybe we should start a post about Lon Woodbury and his connection to these programs as well. A background of who he is would be valuable and would complement this thread.
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Somebody posited a while ago that Reuben's disinfo tactics indicated an intelligence background. His colleagues certainly fit the bill:
http://www.correlsense.com/company/team (http://www.correlsense.com/company/team)
"Oren Elias, CEO
Earlier, while serving in the IDF Intelligence Corps, Oren participated in the development of knowledge management systems."
"Lanir Shacham, CTO
Lanir is a graduate of the MAMRAM IDF computer academy and holds a degree in Computer Science (B.Sc.) and Physics (M.Sc) from Bar Ilan University."
"Amir Gabrieli, Director of Customer Operations
Earlier, while serving in the IDF, Amir held key architectural and implementation positions in the Israeli Air Force R&D center. Amir is a graduate of the MAMRAM IDF computer academy and holds a degree in Computer Science (B.Sc.) along with a Master of Business Administration (MBA) from Bar Ilan University."
"Alon Bar-Lev, Director of R&D
Mr. Bar-Lev is a graduate of the MAMRAM IDF computer academy and the MLP program of the Technion Institute for Management."
"Nir Livni, Director of Product Management
Earlier, while serving in the IDF, Nir held a key position in architecting the infrastructure and leading the infrastructure development team of a flagship project. Livni is a graduate of the MAMRAM IDF computer academy and holds a degree in Economics and Computer Science (B.Sc.) from Bar Ilan University along with a Master of Business Administration (MBA) from Tel Aviv University (magna cum laude)."
http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf (http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf)
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Ha. If you google John D Reuben this is now the 1st search result you get.
Pretty shameful, John. Killing your kid and trolling a forum for abuse survivors to pimp the program that put that nails in Michael's coffin. The only way out is suicide. Do the world a favor.
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Ha. If you google John D Reuben this is now the 1st search result you get.
Pretty shameful, John. Killing your kid and trolling a forum for abuse survivors to pimp the program that put that nails in Michael's coffin. The only way out is suicide. Do the world a favor.
Oh boy here we go. When he gets hold of this site and reads what people have been saying , you think Sue S. was angry you havent seen anything. He will be calling the new fornits server ,New Dream Network, LLC, looking for answers and IP numbers I am sure.
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This is all probably just a misunderstanding.
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This is all probably just a misunderstanding.
Thats Funny!!
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....TheWho, who feels such strong compulsion to abuse abuse victims.
Many of you know one of the top issues I have with the posters here was their definition of abuse. Many say they were abused by a program. But, you claim that my arguments and questioning is abusive to you. This is why we question whether or not you were abused in the program because you don’t understand what abuse is. By your own definition I have suffered more abuse than any of you, through the name calling and harassment, continual attempts to find out who I am etc. So by “Your” definition since I am here and still posting I am a survivor. But I don’t consider it abuse I consider it debate/ argument, but being the opportunists that many can be you like to feel if you lose an argument then you must have been abused. RobertBruce is a prime example. He feels I have abused him here. So when he turns around and says he was abused in a program what are we to think? That he lost an argument to a staff member? Someone called him on a lie?
You are doing a big disservice to children who actually do suffer child abuse throughout this country by redefining it the way you do and watering down its impact.
Log in, shitbag. And cut the sanctimonius bullshit. Your legacy is cemented. And I'm going to distribute your "work" to everyone who associates with you and your business.
You're a survivor? You're the fucking cause.
Are you forgetting the obvious glee you have gotten from taunting people here who have been through abusive programs? Are you forgetting that you tried to publish RobertBruce's true identity and items from his alleged 'treatment plan'? You are a disgusting piece of garbage. You can't polish that shitpile, Whooter.
I warned you several times not to open the can clearly marked "Do Not Open," but in your smug arrogance you opened up that can on yourself. Now you will take responsibility and deal with the fallout. Nobody will ever Google "John Reuben" or your child abbatoir 'STICC' again without seeing how hard you worked on degrading and debasing abused children. Every time someone does a search on you they will see you here calling children 'dog fuckers' and accusing them of having 'gay issues.' Tough luck, lightweight. Fuck with the bull and you get the horns.
Personally, I'd like to bash your fucking face in, but this will have to do.
It seems jd has been informed about this topic, several times.
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Log in, shitbag. And cut the sanctimonius bullshit. Your legacy is cemented. And I'm going to distribute your "work" to everyone who associates with you and your business.
You want me to log-in, “Guest”. Kind funny coming from the shadows. At least you know who I am.
Isn't this an admission on the part of JD?
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Many of you know one of the top issues I have with the posters here was their definition of abuse. Many say they were abused by a program. But, you claim that my arguments and questioning is abusive to you. This is why we question whether or not you were abused in the program because you don’t understand what abuse is. By your own definition I have suffered more abuse than any of you, through the name calling and harassment, continual attempts to find out who I am etc. So by “Your” definition since I am here and still posting I am a survivor. But I don’t consider it abuse I consider it debate/ argument, but being the opportunists that many can be you like to feel if you lose an argument then you must have been abused. RobertBruce is a prime example. He feels I have abused him here. So when he turns around and says he was abused in a program what are we to think? That he lost an argument to a staff member? Someone called him on a lie?.
I have to agree with this post. I have read posts where they say they were abused but never name the staff member. Why wouldnt they? I know I would. I would name the friggin guy and then post his picture and then drive to his house with the cops by my side and arrest him. But we never see that here why? Sometimes you need to read between the lines and when a poster says they were abused but fails to name names it could mean they were self abused or cutters as they call themselves. This way they can make the statement with a full conscience that they were abused in the program without having to reveal that is was self inflicted thereby giving the impression that the program was at fault.
Something to think about.
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Maybe we should start a post about Lon Woodbury and his connection to these programs as well. A background of who he is would be valuable and would complement this thread.
That wou;d be very helpful, rma.
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Many of you know one of the top issues I have with the posters here was their definition of abuse. Many say they were abused by a program. But, you claim that my arguments and questioning is abusive to you. This is why we question whether or not you were abused in the program because you don’t understand what abuse is. By your own definition I have suffered more abuse than any of you, through the name calling and harassment, continual attempts to find out who I am etc. So by “Your” definition since I am here and still posting I am a survivor. But I don’t consider it abuse I consider it debate/ argument, but being the opportunists that many can be you like to feel if you lose an argument then you must have been abused. RobertBruce is a prime example. He feels I have abused him here. So when he turns around and says he was abused in a program what are we to think? That he lost an argument to a staff member? Someone called him on a lie?.
I have to agree with this post. I have read posts where they say they were abused but never name the staff member. Why wouldnt they? I know I would. I would name the friggin guy and then post his picture and then drive to his house with the cops by my side and arrest him. But we never see that here why? Sometimes you need to read between the lines and when a poster says they were abused but fails to name names it could mean they were self abused or cutters as they call themselves. This way they can make the statement with a full conscience that they were abused in the program without having to reveal that is was self inflicted thereby giving the impression that the program was at fault.
Something to think about.
Of course you agree because you rarely read posts in detail, you always look for the easy way out by finding the most insignificant part of any post and using it to construct poorly-based arguments.
Obviously for many survivors, the abuse happened long ago, and statute of limitations are extremely short. Most people understand this, but I am guessing you don't think too deeply before you rattle off another pro-program message. Just a robot.
Survivors have named names on endless occasions. On every one of the various school sites listed here on Fornits. But you seem to be the only one intent on not seeing that. Gee, I wonder why? And your statement that the abuse was self-inflicted causes you to lose all credibility. But it was certainly a part of all of these programs to make the teens believe that everything was their fault, whether it be parents getting divorced or someone being adopted, a girl being raped or a person molested as a child. I certainly bet you think those people were all guilty of causing those events in their lives with your narrow view on things.
And as for people feeling abused because they lose an argument? There is no name for such a low level of stupidity as the kind you display here. Your argument is totally lacking in any real thought or reflection or insight. In these programs you were punished for arguing or defending yourself at all. Few here would disagree with that, except of course you. So teens were unable to win any arguments or allowed to argue at all. The abuse was in being forced to accept guilt for things you had no association with. Guilt for events you had no part of. Screamed and yelled at and disciplined until you accepted full blame for things you didn't do. But to you, everyone is guilty. And that you are now suggesting everyone who has claimed abuse is lying... all of them, everyone on this site? That is so very, very staff-like. That you believe everyone is just a cry baby and a whiner and not owning up to everything you think they should feel horrible about, forever, is a cruel thing to consider though you do seem to be a sadist. What pathetic, insensitive drivel you spew at others expense.
Were you fired from your position as a staff member somewhere? Because it sure seems like you haven't abused enough people already that you need to come here to get your fix. Go take yourself and your bizarre accusations and simple-minded all-encompassing notions and shove off to a site where people care. I suggest some kind of English as a second language site. Not MENSA. We would not welcome you there either.
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Somebody posited a while ago that Reuben's disinfo tactics indicated an intelligence background. His colleagues certainly fit the bill:
http://www.correlsense.com/company/team (http://www.correlsense.com/company/team)
"Oren Elias, CEO
Earlier, while serving in the IDF Intelligence Corps, Oren participated in the development of knowledge management systems."
"Lanir Shacham, CTO
Lanir is a graduate of the MAMRAM IDF computer academy and holds a degree in Computer Science (B.Sc.) and Physics (M.Sc) from Bar Ilan University."
"Amir Gabrieli, Director of Customer Operations
Earlier, while serving in the IDF, Amir held key architectural and implementation positions in the Israeli Air Force R&D center. Amir is a graduate of the MAMRAM IDF computer academy and holds a degree in Computer Science (B.Sc.) along with a Master of Business Administration (MBA) from Bar Ilan University."
"Alon Bar-Lev, Director of R&D
Mr. Bar-Lev is a graduate of the MAMRAM IDF computer academy and the MLP program of the Technion Institute for Management."
"Nir Livni, Director of Product Management
Earlier, while serving in the IDF, Nir held a key position in architecting the infrastructure and leading the infrastructure development team of a flagship project. Livni is a graduate of the MAMRAM IDF computer academy and holds a degree in Economics and Computer Science (B.Sc.) from Bar Ilan University along with a Master of Business Administration (MBA) from Tel Aviv University (magna cum laude)."
http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf (http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf)
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This is all probably just a misunderstanding.
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R.I.P., Mike. Your Dad failed you, but we'll never forget you...
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Nobody else will forget Mike either. Because his father uses him as a marketing tool. John Reuben literally capitalized on his son's death by exploiting him in a series of death notices asking for donations to STICC. Think about the craven type of sicko 'who' would do something like that...
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
Topic refresher...
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"John David Reuben, VP Sales
John Reuben manages worldwide sales operations for Correlsense. John Reuben has more than 20 years of sales, operations and management experience at global software and technology companies offering enterprise-level solutions. Prior to joining Correlsense, Mr. Reuben was vice president of sales for Prolify, a Netanya, Israel business processmanagement software developer. He also held the position of vice president of sales and marketing at Kintana, a provider of IT Governance software and helped grow that company from $0-24M in less than three years. He was also a worldwide sales director at Oracle Corporation and founded one of their first application regions. John also held sales and sales management positions at Andersen Consulting, iSpheres, and System Software Associates. John founded Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org)), a non-profit organization formed in April of 2004 to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. John manages this as a volunteer."
"REUBEN--Michael Joshua. Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was."
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Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
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Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
That is despicable.
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Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
That is despicable.
Damn, that really is. How does he sleep at night?
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Somebody posited a while ago that Reuben's disinfo tactics indicated an intelligence background. His colleagues certainly fit the bill:
http://www.correlsense.com/company/team (http://www.correlsense.com/company/team)
"Oren Elias, CEO
Earlier, while serving in the IDF Intelligence Corps, Oren participated in the development of knowledge management systems."
"Lanir Shacham, CTO
Lanir is a graduate of the MAMRAM IDF computer academy and holds a degree in Computer Science (B.Sc.) and Physics (M.Sc) from Bar Ilan University."
"Amir Gabrieli, Director of Customer Operations
Earlier, while serving in the IDF, Amir held key architectural and implementation positions in the Israeli Air Force R&D center. Amir is a graduate of the MAMRAM IDF computer academy and holds a degree in Computer Science (B.Sc.) along with a Master of Business Administration (MBA) from Bar Ilan University."
"Alon Bar-Lev, Director of R&D
Mr. Bar-Lev is a graduate of the MAMRAM IDF computer academy and the MLP program of the Technion Institute for Management."
"Nir Livni, Director of Product Management
Earlier, while serving in the IDF, Nir held a key position in architecting the infrastructure and leading the infrastructure development team of a flagship project. Livni is a graduate of the MAMRAM IDF computer academy and holds a degree in Economics and Computer Science (B.Sc.) from Bar Ilan University along with a Master of Business Administration (MBA) from Tel Aviv University (magna cum laude)."
http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf (http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf)
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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so. no lawsuit from john David Reuben. yet this is the second search result that comes up when you post his name. (it was the first-- i guess internet marketer that he is, some google bomb trick knocked it down a notch) I'd say its safe to say his identity is indeed that of theit.
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Face it, he loves the attention! :twofinger: :twofinger:
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R.I.P., Mike. Your Dad failed you, but we'll never forget you...
don't worry, buddy. your dad is busily setting up the next round of child suicides so you'll have company in heaven.
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
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so. no lawsuit from john David Reuben. yet this is the second search result that comes up when you post his name. (it was the first-- i guess internet marketer that he is, some google bomb trick knocked it down a notch) I'd say its safe to say his identity is indeed that of theit.
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Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
-
John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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This topic won't go away, John. No matter how much you flood with useless nonsense.
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This topic won't go away, John. No matter how much you flood with useless nonsense.
:beat: :cheers: ::unhappy::
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From: John Reuben [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:16 PMTo: [email protected]
Subject: Passing Away Of My Son Michael
Friends & Associates,Many of you may have already heard about the passing of my son, Michael, this past weekend as the result of substance abuse related issues. As much as I have tried these many years, I could not help Mike escape the grip of his drugs of choice. And now I am faced with a void in my life that will be impossible to replace.Substance abuse is a horrid disease, a plague on our society. In 2004 I realized that my son had this problem and looked for a constructive way to channel my energies from worrying about my son. I formed a non-profit called Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (STICC) to help disadvantaged families with their children.
This is when TheWho's research into teen programming really began. He trolled Fornits as a way to avoid "worrying about (his) son." Somehow I doubt all of this trolling will bring any kind of resolution for TheWho.
Anyway, this is the timeline for TheWho's arrival on Fornits, which became full-blown incessant, vapid trolling soon thereafter, culminating in directly attacking a kid who was abused at HLA, a favorite program of his key associate, Martha Kolbe, who continues to refer children to the abusive teen shitpit to this day.
Personally, I wouldn't be seeking help from a man with no conscience or morals, like John. Reading his posts here make me cringe and some make me feel sick to my stomach from the rationalization of hurting kids to 'help' them.
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great quote, guest. this guy has serious problems.
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From: John Reuben [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:16 PMTo: [email protected]
Subject: Passing Away Of My Son Michael
Friends & Associates,Many of you may have already heard about the passing of my son, Michael, this past weekend as the result of substance abuse related issues. As much as I have tried these many years, I could not help Mike escape the grip of his drugs of choice. And now I am faced with a void in my life that will be impossible to replace.Substance abuse is a horrid disease, a plague on our society. In 2004 I realized that my son had this problem and looked for a constructive way to channel my energies from worrying about my son. I formed a non-profit called Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (STICC) to help disadvantaged families with their children.
This is when TheWho's research into teen programming really began. He trolled Fornits as a way to avoid "worrying about (his) son." Somehow I doubt all of this trolling will bring any kind of resolution for TheWho.
Anyway, this is the timeline for TheWho's arrival on Fornits, which became full-blown incessant, vapid trolling soon thereafter, culminating in directly attacking a kid who was abused at HLA, a favorite program of his key associate, Martha Kolbe, who continues to refer children to the abusive teen shitpit to this day.
Personally, I wouldn't be seeking help from a man with no conscience or morals, like John. Reading his posts here make me cringe and some make me feel sick to my stomach from the rationalization of hurting kids to 'help' them.
Yes, this is cringeworthy. First his wife dies mysteriously, then his son ODs and his solution is to fund programs, like the one he put his other son in, HLA, which has closed due to legal problems stemming from fraud and abuse. I think I can raise my family without John's 'help' as the only help he seems to offer is how to die sooner.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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Bruce has finally snapped under pressure. He is obsessed with this Reuben guy.
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great quote, guest. this guy has serious problems.
Yes, he has a few screws loose. It's the same guy as TheWho.
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Is John Reuben paid to troll fornits?
He doesn t just shill for Aspen, but for CEDU, the AARC...?
Very weird
What gives?
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"I am not suppose to say this but personally I would recommend Calgary, at this time, because the kids get a little more one on one attention there. AARC is at capacity right now and has just lost a key staff person. Their quality hasn’t suffered but Calgary can offer more attention at this time until Alberta can get new people in."
JD
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John D. Reuben lists his religion as "Jewish" on his Zoom profile and he sends kids to camps where they could be killed or abused. How ironic that a Jew has no problem with people being abducted from their homes in the middle of the night and shipped to camps where they face death and torture if they resist. And who wouldn't resist kidnapping?
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it, Reuben. Maybe you should talk with a Holocaust survivor and see how similar your "life saving" programs are to the Nazis' Final Solution.
You're a subhuman, John D. Reuben. You wanted to compete with Sue Scheff, now you are on her level.
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Bruce, calm down, the only reason you are taking it this hard and personally is because this guy, John, owned you for so many years. Try renting a movie or taking a walk. It is quite possible that this guy could be a non practicing jew who doesnt believe the holocaust occurred which would mean history would not be repeating itself in his eyes. So it is all a matter of perspective and this "final solution" could be new ground for him.
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Bruce, calm down, the only reason you are taking it this hard and personally is because this guy, John, owned you for so many years. Try renting a movie or taking a walk. It is quite possible that this guy could be a non practicing jew who doesnt believe the holocaust occurred which would mean history would not be repeating itself in his eyes. So it is all a matter of perspective and this "final solution" could be new ground for him.
My name isn't Bruce and I have no relationship with Reuben other than reading the forum, so he has no ownership of me. As a parent I find Reuben deplorable, an opportunist on the level of Polly Klaas' father, who exploited his daughter's murder for gain.
Why are you people so interested in defending John Reuben? Why is he valuable to you? The usual threads I read on Fornits are cluttered with posts like yours above. You make fun of these kids who claim they've suffered and defend a guy who shows no concern for the safety of other parents' kids.
The topic of John D. Reuben needs to be on other forums other than Fornits, like FICAN and CAFETY, so parents can be made aware of what Reuben promotes and his horrible "proof" that it works. All of these things his defenders are saying need to be included in any discussion of Reuben to show how evil and heartless these people are. There certainly are a lot of people speaking for Reuben, like the cad above. You must know him really well. This does remind me of Sue Scheff and her backers. Now some of Scheff's backers are here, or they were sued by Scheff.
"Perspective"? I guess John D. Reuben puts a positive spin on the Holocaust now? I'm not Jewish and I consider the Holocaust an abomination. How do you expect to sway parents to put kids in an AEG school when you behave like the worst juvenile delinquents, defending your programs by insulting and further abusing kids you do not know? Isn't it bad enough John D. Reuben lost his son, despite the obviously futile programs?
What is perfectly clear is that John D. Reuben and his AEG cohorts make it obvious they have an Achilles' heel and the people who suffered in the programs he sells have found it and the screaming and profanity out of AEG and Reuben have been shocking. Reuben and AEG would have been better served by silence rather than attacking kids who were abused.
Poster above: Have any children suffered abuse or death in an Aspen program? A "Yes" answer means you are aware of the problems inherent in your system and you still promote it. I've seen no statements from AEG announcing a ban on corporal punishment, or even the introduction of legitimate treatment.
John D. Reuben and STICC, you have some media attention coming to you, and it will not be the type you want. You can refuse to participate but you lose the chance to rebut. Based on the information on this forum and your alleged activities as a troll called "the who", you might want to get your foulmouthed fanatics to take time out and work the spin machine. Miller Newton is the only other person who comes to mind as evil and without conscience as John D. Reuben and his cohorts at AEG.
RIP, Michael Reuben. A lot of people are speaking for your father, how sad no one can speak for you.
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John D. Reuben lists his religion as "Jewish" on his Zoom profile and he sends kids to camps where they could be killed or abused. How ironic that a Jew has no problem with people being abducted from their homes in the middle of the night and shipped to camps where they face death and torture if they resist. And who wouldn't resist kidnapping?
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it, Reuben. Maybe you should talk with a Holocaust survivor and see how similar your "life saving" programs are to the Nazis' Final Solution.
You're a subhuman, John D. Reuben. You wanted to compete with Sue Scheff, now you are on her level.
You got that right. John Reuben is definitely SUBhuman. One son thinks he killed his own wife. His other son is already dead. Maybe this is John's own personal "final solution" to his family problems? One thing's for sure - nobody should take parenting advice from someone who is as miserable a failure as John Reuben at parenting.
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My name isn't Bruce
Wiggle, wiggle, Bruce, as thewho would say. You have been owned for years by this guy and you just cant let it go. I have watched this guy string you along and make you jump thru hoops, Bruce. The last straw was when he got the ear of a staff member from HLA and found out you had issues about being a coward. You should try to change your writting style if you really expect to anyone.
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Bruce, calm down, the only reason you are taking it this hard and personally is because this guy, John, owned you for so many years. Try renting a movie or taking a walk. It is quite possible that this guy could be a non practicing jew who doesnt believe the holocaust occurred which would mean history would not be repeating itself in his eyes. So it is all a matter of perspective and this "final solution" could be new ground for him.
My name isn't Bruce and I have no relationship with Reuben other than reading the forum, so he has no ownership of me. As a parent I find Reuben deplorable, an opportunist on the level of Polly Klaas' father, who exploited his daughter's murder for gain.
Why are you people so interested in defending John Reuben? Why is he valuable to you? The usual threads I read on Fornits are cluttered with posts like yours above. You make fun of these kids who claim they've suffered and defend a guy who shows no concern for the safety of other parents' kids.
The topic of John D. Reuben needs to be on other forums other than Fornits, like FICAN and CAFETY, so parents can be made aware of what Reuben promotes and his horrible "proof" that it works. All of these things his defenders are saying need to be included in any discussion of Reuben to show how evil and heartless these people are. There certainly are a lot of people speaking for Reuben, like the cad above. You must know him really well. This does remind me of Sue Scheff and her backers. Now some of Scheff's backers are here, or they were sued by Scheff.
"Perspective"? I guess John D. Reuben puts a positive spin on the Holocaust now? I'm not Jewish and I consider the Holocaust an abomination. How do you expect to sway parents to put kids in an AEG school when you behave like the worst juvenile delinquents, defending your programs by insulting and further abusing kids you do not know? Isn't it bad enough John D. Reuben lost his son, despite the obviously futile programs?
What is perfectly clear is that John D. Reuben and his AEG cohorts make it obvious they have an Achilles' heel and the people who suffered in the programs he sells have found it and the screaming and profanity out of AEG and Reuben have been shocking. Reuben and AEG would have been better served by silence rather than attacking kids who were abused.
Poster above: Have any children suffered abuse or death in an Aspen program? A "Yes" answer means you are aware of the problems inherent in your system and you still promote it. I've seen no statements from AEG announcing a ban on corporal punishment, or even the introduction of legitimate treatment.
John D. Reuben and STICC, you have some media attention coming to you, and it will not be the type you want. You can refuse to participate but you lose the chance to rebut. Based on the information on this forum and your alleged activities as a troll called "the who", you might want to get your foulmouthed fanatics to take time out and work the spin machine. Miller Newton is the only other person who comes to mind as evil and without conscience as John D. Reuben and his cohorts at AEG.
RIP, Michael Reuben. A lot of people are speaking for your father, how sad no one can speak for you.
John calls everyone who nails his ass to the wall "Bruce" - it's like a nervous tic he has. This is how you know you got to him. He calls you "Bruce" and rambles on about how he was able to get some unprofessional hack at HLA to divulge confidential information on its patients. He's actually PROUD of that! HLA is out of business, BTW, like many more to follow soon, like STICC. John gets furious when he's outed as a liar and fraud though! Funny to watch.
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John calls everyone who nails his ass to the wall "Bruce"
Its Still......Wiggle, wiggle, Bruce, as thewho would say. You have been owned for years by this guy and you just cant let it go. I have watched this guy string you along and make you jump thru hoops, Bruce. The last straw was when he got the ear of a staff member from HLA and found out you had issues about being a coward.
You should try to change your writting style if you really expect to fool anyone.
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My name isn't Bruce
Wiggle, wiggle, Bruce, as thewho would say. You have been owned for years by this guy and you just cant let it go. I have watched this guy string you along and make you jump thru hoops, Bruce. The last straw was when he got the ear of a staff member from HLA and found out you had issues about being a coward. You should try to change your writting style if you really expect to anyone.
Anyway an admin can confirm to this confused person I am not his friend "Bruce"? Psy will know my IP in a second.
I guess I'll call you "Wiggler". Your "writting" style is no more distinctive than any nine year-old's. Were you in a program, Wiggler, or did you only pay for one?
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My name isn't Bruce and I have no relationship with Reuben other than reading the forum, so he has no ownership of me. As a parent I find Reuben deplorable, an opportunist on the level of Polly Klaas' father, who exploited his daughter's murder for gain.
Why are you people so interested in defending John Reuben? Why is he valuable to you? The usual threads I read on Fornits are cluttered with posts like yours above. You make fun of these kids who claim they've suffered and defend a guy who shows no concern for the safety of other parents' kids.
The topic of John D. Reuben needs to be on other forums other than Fornits, like FICAN and CAFETY, so parents can be made aware of what Reuben promotes and his horrible "proof" that it works. All of these things his defenders are saying need to be included in any discussion of Reuben to show how evil and heartless these people are. There certainly are a lot of people speaking for Reuben, like the cad above. You must know him really well. This does remind me of Sue Scheff and her backers. Now some of Scheff's backers are here, or they were sued by Scheff.
"Perspective"? I guess John D. Reuben puts a positive spin on the Holocaust now? I'm not Jewish and I consider the Holocaust an abomination. How do you expect to sway parents to put kids in an AEG school when you behave like the worst juvenile delinquents, defending your programs by insulting and further abusing kids you do not know? Isn't it bad enough John D. Reuben lost his son, despite the obviously futile programs?
What is perfectly clear is that John D. Reuben and his AEG cohorts make it obvious they have an Achilles' heel and the people who suffered in the programs he sells have found it and the screaming and profanity out of AEG and Reuben have been shocking. Reuben and AEG would have been better served by silence rather than attacking kids who were abused.
Poster above: Have any children suffered abuse or death in an Aspen program? A "Yes" answer means you are aware of the problems inherent in your system and you still promote it. I've seen no statements from AEG announcing a ban on corporal punishment, or even the introduction of legitimate treatment.
John D. Reuben and STICC, you have some media attention coming to you, and it will not be the type you want. You can refuse to participate but you lose the chance to rebut. Based on the information on this forum and your alleged activities as a troll called "the who", you might want to get your foulmouthed fanatics to take time out and work the spin machine. Miller Newton is the only other person who comes to mind as evil and without conscience as John D. Reuben and his cohorts at AEG.
RIP, Michael Reuben. A lot of people are speaking for your father, how sad no one can speak for you.
My name isn't Bruce
Wiggle, wiggle, Bruce, as thewho would say. You have been owned for years by this guy and you just cant let it go. I have watched this guy string you along and make you jump thru hoops, Bruce. The last straw was when he got the ear of a staff member from HLA and found out you had issues about being a coward. You should try to change your writting style if you really expect to anyone.
That's all you have to say to all that? Pretty lame, dude. You was owned like a dog.
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I am not his friend "Bruce"?
Look, nice try, Bruce, but read the last line in my post. You are really bad at this buddy, everyone here knows.
Its Still......Wiggle, wiggle, Bruce, as thewho would say. You have been owned for years by this guy and you just cant let it go. I have watched this guy string you along and make you jump thru hoops, Bruce. The last straw was when he got the ear of a staff member from HLA and found out you had issues about being a coward.
You should try to change your writing style if you really expect to fool anyone.
-
My name isn't Bruce and I have no relationship with Reuben other than reading the forum, so he has no ownership of me. As a parent I find Reuben deplorable, an opportunist on the level of Polly Klaas' father, who exploited his daughter's murder for gain.
Why are you people so interested in defending John Reuben? Why is he valuable to you? The usual threads I read on Fornits are cluttered with posts like yours above. You make fun of these kids who claim they've suffered and defend a guy who shows no concern for the safety of other parents' kids.
The topic of John D. Reuben needs to be on other forums other than Fornits, like FICAN and CAFETY, so parents can be made aware of what Reuben promotes and his horrible "proof" that it works. All of these things his defenders are saying need to be included in any discussion of Reuben to show how evil and heartless these people are. There certainly are a lot of people speaking for Reuben, like the cad above. You must know him really well. This does remind me of Sue Scheff and her backers. Now some of Scheff's backers are here, or they were sued by Scheff.
"Perspective"? I guess John D. Reuben puts a positive spin on the Holocaust now? I'm not Jewish and I consider the Holocaust an abomination. How do you expect to sway parents to put kids in an AEG school when you behave like the worst juvenile delinquents, defending your programs by insulting and further abusing kids you do not know? Isn't it bad enough John D. Reuben lost his son, despite the obviously futile programs?
What is perfectly clear is that John D. Reuben and his AEG cohorts make it obvious they have an Achilles' heel and the people who suffered in the programs he sells have found it and the screaming and profanity out of AEG and Reuben have been shocking. Reuben and AEG would have been better served by silence rather than attacking kids who were abused.
Poster above: Have any children suffered abuse or death in an Aspen program? A "Yes" answer means you are aware of the problems inherent in your system and you still promote it. I've seen no statements from AEG announcing a ban on corporal punishment, or even the introduction of legitimate treatment.
John D. Reuben and STICC, you have some media attention coming to you, and it will not be the type you want. You can refuse to participate but you lose the chance to rebut. Based on the information on this forum and your alleged activities as a troll called "the who", you might want to get your foulmouthed fanatics to take time out and work the spin machine. Miller Newton is the only other person who comes to mind as evil and without conscience as John D. Reuben and his cohorts at AEG.
RIP, Michael Reuben. A lot of people are speaking for your father, how sad no one can speak for you.
My name isn't Bruce
Wiggle, wiggle, Bruce, as thewho would say. You have been owned for years by this guy and you just cant let it go. I have watched this guy string you along and make you jump thru hoops, Bruce. The last straw was when he got the ear of a staff member from HLA and found out you had issues about being a coward. You should try to change your writting style if you really expect to anyone.
That's all you have to say to all that? Pretty lame, dude. You was owned like a dog.
Yes, but his only motive is to change the subject from John Reuben's dealings with abusive programs for kickbacks. Funny though, by responding he keeps his thread at the top. His ego is too fragile not to respond, even though responding only damages him worse. And so it has gone for almost six years now with this same guy.
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I am not his friend "Bruce"?
Look, nice try, Bruce, but read the last line in my post. You are really bad at this buddy, everyone here knows.
Its Still......Wiggle, wiggle, Bruce, as thewho would say. You have been owned for years by this guy and you just cant let it go. I have watched this guy string you along and make you jump thru hoops, Bruce. The last straw was when he got the ear of a staff member from HLA and found out you had issues about being a coward.
You should try to change your writing style if you really expect to fool anyone.
Yes, but his only motive is to change the subject from John Reuben's dealings with abusive programs for kickbacks.
Thanks Bruce, for admitting that you have been exposed. No one is changing the subject on you, dont get upset. Look at the title of the thread... now see, it is still at the top and your goal is being accomplished. You can still pursue this guy Reuben to your hearts content. But we all know that you have been owned by thewho and are doing the best you can to counter that... keep posting (bumping it up) and I will do my share to help you as long as you stay honest and know that I will be here to keep you accountable for your posts.
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lol I feel bad for RB he gets exposed everytime. He makes a shitty troll.
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My name isn't Bruce and I have no relationship with Reuben other than reading the forum, so he has no ownership of me. As a parent I find Reuben deplorable, an opportunist on the level of Polly Klaas' father, who exploited his daughter's murder for gain.
Why are you people so interested in defending John Reuben? Why is he valuable to you? The usual threads I read on Fornits are cluttered with posts like yours above. You make fun of these kids who claim they've suffered and defend a guy who shows no concern for the safety of other parents' kids.
The topic of John D. Reuben needs to be on other forums other than Fornits, like FICAN and CAFETY, so parents can be made aware of what Reuben promotes and his horrible "proof" that it works. All of these things his defenders are saying need to be included in any discussion of Reuben to show how evil and heartless these people are. There certainly are a lot of people speaking for Reuben, like the cad above. You must know him really well. This does remind me of Sue Scheff and her backers. Now some of Scheff's backers are here, or they were sued by Scheff.
"Perspective"? I guess John D. Reuben puts a positive spin on the Holocaust now? I'm not Jewish and I consider the Holocaust an abomination. How do you expect to sway parents to put kids in an AEG school when you behave like the worst juvenile delinquents, defending your programs by insulting and further abusing kids you do not know? Isn't it bad enough John D. Reuben lost his son, despite the obviously futile programs?
What is perfectly clear is that John D. Reuben and his AEG cohorts make it obvious they have an Achilles' heel and the people who suffered in the programs he sells have found it and the screaming and profanity out of AEG and Reuben have been shocking. Reuben and AEG would have been better served by silence rather than attacking kids who were abused.
Poster above: Have any children suffered abuse or death in an Aspen program? A "Yes" answer means you are aware of the problems inherent in your system and you still promote it. I've seen no statements from AEG announcing a ban on corporal punishment, or even the introduction of legitimate treatment.
John D. Reuben and STICC, you have some media attention coming to you, and it will not be the type you want. You can refuse to participate but you lose the chance to rebut. Based on the information on this forum and your alleged activities as a troll called "the who", you might want to get your foulmouthed fanatics to take time out and work the spin machine. Miller Newton is the only other person who comes to mind as evil and without conscience as John D. Reuben and his cohorts at AEG.
RIP, Michael Reuben. A lot of people are speaking for your father, how sad no one can speak for you.
My name isn't Bruce
Wiggle, wiggle, Bruce, as thewho would say. You have been owned for years by this guy and you just cant let it go. I have watched this guy string you along and make you jump thru hoops, Bruce. The last straw was when he got the ear of a staff member from HLA and found out you had issues about being a coward. You should try to change your writting style if you really expect to anyone.
That's all you have to say to all that? Pretty lame, dude. You was owned like a dog.
Yes, but his only motive is to change the subject from John Reuben's dealings with abusive programs for kickbacks. Funny though, by responding he keeps his thread at the top. His ego is too fragile not to respond, even though responding only damages him worse. And so it has gone for almost six years now with this same guy.
Thanks for exposing this person to the light of day, people. He has some serious, serious problems to say the least.
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Excerpt from an email received from a parent that used STICC:
Oh my God. My wife's sister had her son "placed" by this person into a highly abusive facility. She ended up getting her son out (which this guy fought along with the program) and suing them. I had no idea he had this type of history with his own children and his wife. This is scaring me now. I'm going to call my sister and aske her if her attorney knows about all of this.
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John D. Reuben lists his religion as "Jewish" on his Zoom profile and he sends kids to camps where they could be killed or abused. How ironic that a Jew has no problem with people being abducted from their homes in the middle of the night and shipped to camps where they face death and torture if they resist. And who wouldn't resist kidnapping?
Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it, Reuben. Maybe you should talk with a Holocaust survivor and see how similar your "life saving" programs are to the Nazis' Final Solution.
You're a subhuman, John D. Reuben. You wanted to compete with Sue Scheff, now you are on her level.
You got that right. John Reuben is definitely SUBhuman. One son thinks he killed his own wife. His other son is already dead. Maybe this is John's own personal "final solution" to his family problems? One thing's for sure - nobody should take parenting advice from someone who is as miserable a failure as John Reuben at parenting.
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http://www.sticc.org/pages/home.php (http://www.sticc.org/pages/home.php)
I hope they sue you John. Better yet I hope they give ya one.
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Oh my God. My wife's sister had her son "placed" by this person into a highly abusive facility. She ended up getting her son out (which this guy fought along with the program) and suing them. I had no idea he had this type of history with his own children and his wife. This is scaring me now. I'm going to call my sister and aske her if her attorney knows about all of this.
Biz-umpety!
Keep the sunlight on this vampire.
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From: John Reuben [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:16 PMTo: [email protected]
Subject: Passing Away Of My Son Michael
Friends & Associates,Many of you may have already heard about the passing of my son, Michael, this past weekend as the result of substance abuse related issues. As much as I have tried these many years, I could not help Mike escape the grip of his drugs of choice. And now I am faced with a void in my life that will be impossible to replace.Substance abuse is a horrid disease, a plague on our society. In 2004 I realized that my son had this problem and looked for a constructive way to channel my energies from worrying about my son. I formed a non-profit called Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (STICC) to help disadvantaged families with their children.
This is when TheWho's research into teen programming really began. He trolled Fornits as a way to avoid "worrying about (his) son." Somehow I doubt all of this trolling will bring any kind of resolution for TheWho.
Anyway, this is the timeline for TheWho's arrival on Fornits, which became full-blown incessant, vapid trolling soon thereafter, culminating in directly attacking a kid who was abused at HLA, a favorite program of his key associate, Martha Kolbe, who continues to refer children to the abusive teen shitpit to this day.
Personally, I wouldn't be seeking help from a man with no conscience or morals, like John. Reading his posts here make me cringe and some make me feel sick to my stomach from the rationalization of hurting kids to 'help' them.
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Oh my God. My wife's sister had her son "placed" by this person into a highly abusive facility. She ended up getting her son out (which this guy fought along with the program) and suing them. I had no idea he had this type of history with his own children and his wife. This is scaring me now. I'm going to call my sister and aske her if her attorney knows about all of this.
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:bump:
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
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Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
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Bruce, calm down, the only reason you are taking it this hard and personally is because this guy, John, owned you for so many years. Try renting a movie or taking a walk. It is quite possible that this guy could be a non practicing jew who doesnt believe the holocaust occurred which would mean history would not be repeating itself in his eyes. So it is all a matter of perspective and this "final solution" could be new ground for him.
My name isn't Bruce and I have no relationship with Reuben other than reading the forum, so he has no ownership of me. As a parent I find Reuben deplorable, an opportunist on the level of Polly Klaas' father, who exploited his daughter's murder for gain.
Why are you people so interested in defending John Reuben? Why is he valuable to you? The usual threads I read on Fornits are cluttered with posts like yours above. You make fun of these kids who claim they've suffered and defend a guy who shows no concern for the safety of other parents' kids.
The topic of John D. Reuben needs to be on other forums other than Fornits, like FICAN and CAFETY, so parents can be made aware of what Reuben promotes and his horrible "proof" that it works. All of these things his defenders are saying need to be included in any discussion of Reuben to show how evil and heartless these people are. There certainly are a lot of people speaking for Reuben, like the cad above. You must know him really well. This does remind me of Sue Scheff and her backers. Now some of Scheff's backers are here, or they were sued by Scheff.
"Perspective"? I guess John D. Reuben puts a positive spin on the Holocaust now? I'm not Jewish and I consider the Holocaust an abomination. How do you expect to sway parents to put kids in an AEG school when you behave like the worst juvenile delinquents, defending your programs by insulting and further abusing kids you do not know? Isn't it bad enough John D. Reuben lost his son, despite the obviously futile programs?
What is perfectly clear is that John D. Reuben and his AEG cohorts make it obvious they have an Achilles' heel and the people who suffered in the programs he sells have found it and the screaming and profanity out of AEG and Reuben have been shocking. Reuben and AEG would have been better served by silence rather than attacking kids who were abused.
Poster above: Have any children suffered abuse or death in an Aspen program? A "Yes" answer means you are aware of the problems inherent in your system and you still promote it. I've seen no statements from AEG announcing a ban on corporal punishment, or even the introduction of legitimate treatment.
John D. Reuben and STICC, you have some media attention coming to you, and it will not be the type you want. You can refuse to participate but you lose the chance to rebut. Based on the information on this forum and your alleged activities as a troll called "the who", you might want to get your foulmouthed fanatics to take time out and work the spin machine. Miller Newton is the only other person who comes to mind as evil and without conscience as John D. Reuben and his cohorts at AEG.
RIP, Michael Reuben. A lot of people are speaking for your father, how sad no one can speak for you.
:bump:
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
This marketing spin makes me nauseous. We're talking about HUMAN BEINGS here, John. I know the conscienceless, like yourself, see children as commodities, but this is WAY out of line. You disgust me, sir.
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
This marketing spin makes me nauseous. We're talking about HUMAN BEINGS here, John. I know the conscienceless, like yourself, see children as commodities, but this is WAY out of line. You disgust me, sir.
Of course you are nauseous. That is because you are weak and lack foresight like most people. See the problem is you miss the bigger picture. You think small and think problems can be solved by hugging people. People and kids dont need hugs they need solutions, they need to know someone is in control and can make them feel safe. Most parents jump in and try to save their child by getting involved in their lives. But the truth is it is too late at this point to save them by this approach because they have traveled too far down the path. The parents should have been more involved all along. So instead of taking the road everyone else was taking another option was to start a business around the problem. This way you not only get help for your child but you find you are able to raise money for other kids to be placed and after the smoke settles 2 things occur:
1. It doesn’t cost a dime for treatment and
2. You can actually reverse the flow and have a few coins end up back in your pocket to boot.
You need to always keep a level head and look for opportunity when others are panicking. This is key and is the Hallmark of successful people. Whenever something is going terribly bad try to think about how you can profit by it and turn it around into something good. I have always been a firm believer that there exists a silver lining in every situation. It is our jobs to find it and utilize it or someone else will.
As far as trying to find something scientifically proven, that is hogwash. By the time any good set of studies are completed the treatment is outdated and people have moved on to something more "leading edge". Hell they still cant figure out how bees fly but that doesnt prevent us from enjoying the honey.
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But the facilities you refer to don't offer treatment (see Aspen lawsuit where they admit offering 'no treatment, medical or psychological'), so that's a non-starter. Based on that it looks like you're just out to make a buck off crippled families that need real help, from educated, licensed professionals, unlike those that Aspen offers.
And what about outcomes? Your kid is dead, along with many others. Didn't exactly work out as you planned with your experimental 'treatment' of your child, did it?
About the money issue - How much savings is a dead child worth? 100k? 50k? What?
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But the facilities you refer to don't offer treatment (see Aspen lawsuit where they admit offering 'no treatment, medical or psychological'), so that's a non-starter. Based on that it looks like you're just out to make a buck off crippled families that need real help, from educated, licensed professionals, unlike those that Aspen offers.
And what about outcomes? Your kid is dead, along with many others. Didn't exactly work out as you planned with your experimental 'treatment' of your child, did it?
About the money issue - How much savings is a dead child worth? 100k? 50k? What?
Doesn’t matter what they offer as long as the kid is kept safe and gets placed back on the right path. Some families require licensed psychologists and others do not. If it were one size fits all then Ed-cons would not be needed. As far as kids dying, all people die. Show me a long term outcome study where everyone lived. They don’t exist. Finally there is nothing wrong with making money. Show me someone who is happy and well developed that is not making money. They don’t exist.
So you see you get yourself caught up in all the details..."This lawyer said this in that lawsuit".... "This child died 3 years after eating at a McDonalds"....."That child committed suicide because he was denied entrance into a program"...... etc. These are all individual data points which lead to no conclusion. If you step back and look at the larger picture, like I suggested earlier, you will see the benefit the industry provides.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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But the facilities you refer to don't offer treatment (see Aspen lawsuit where they admit offering 'no treatment, medical or psychological'), so that's a non-starter. Based on that it looks like you're just out to make a buck off crippled families that need real help, from educated, licensed professionals, unlike those that Aspen offers.
And what about outcomes? Your kid is dead, along with many others. Didn't exactly work out as you planned with your experimental 'treatment' of your child, did it?
About the money issue - How much savings is a dead child worth? 100k? 50k? What?
Doesn’t matter what they offer as long as the kid is kept safe and gets placed back on the right path. Some families require licensed psychologists and others do not. If it were one size fits all then Ed-cons would not be needed. As far as kids dying, all people die. Show me a long term outcome study where everyone lived. They don’t exist. Finally there is nothing wrong with making money. Show me someone who is happy and well developed that is not making money. They don’t exist.
So you see you get yourself caught up in all the details..."This lawyer said this in that lawsuit".... "This child died 3 years after eating at a McDonalds"....."That child committed suicide because he was denied entrance into a program"...... etc. These are all individual data points which lead to no conclusion. If you step back and look at the larger picture, like I suggested earlier, you will see the benefit the industry provides.
No, the lawsuit specifically goes after Aspen for NOT providing treatment. Aspens DEFENSE was that they do not provide treatment and never agreed to do so. That's the "larger picture."
Show a long-term outcome study that shows these quacks to be helpful. That's your burden. You're the seller.
So, if money's not an issue, just shoot us straight. How much savings is worth letting you and STICC destroy our children? Put a number on it.
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No, the lawsuit specifically goes after Aspen for NOT providing treatment. Aspens DEFENSE was that they do not provide treatment and never agreed to do so. That's the "larger picture."
If you want your kid to see a licensed therapist you need to pay for it. Nothing is free. The parents dropped the ball and never signed up for treatment.
Show a long-term outcome study that shows these quacks to be helpful.
I asked first. Show me a study that indicates the programs to be in effective
That's your burden. You're the seller.
Actually, I believe you were to sell the readers on the idea that the programs are ineffective. So we would like to see the study. Dont give us a survey either. We need a long term peer reviewed published study that is done independently by someone who has never been in the field.
So, if money's not an issue, just shoot us straight. How much savings is worth letting you and STICC destroy our children? Put a number on it.
I dont think anyone could put a monetary amount on a child, shame on you.
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Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
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I asked first. Show me a study that indicates the programs to be in effective
Bullshit!!!! Listen carefully as you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. THE BURDEN OF PROOF FALLS UPON THOSE CLAIMING SUCCESS. Drug companies have to prove their drugs' effectiveness. They don't toss out a product and say "prove it doesn't work". It's not the burden of the consumer, or anyone else to prove a negative. You're claiming you have a program that "works" and is safe. Prove it.
You guys made the claim, now back it up. A "study" done by an employee of AEG does not scientific data make.
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I asked first. Show me a study that indicates the programs to be in effective
Bullshit!!!! Listen carefully as you seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. THE BURDEN OF PROOF FALLS UPON THOSE CLAIMING SUCCESS. Drug companies have to prove their drugs' effectiveness. They don't toss out a product and say "prove it doesn't work". It's not the burden of the consumer, or anyone else to prove a negative. You're claiming you have a program that "works" and is safe. Prove it.
You guys made the claim, now back it up. A "study" done by an employee of AEG does not scientific data make.
wow!! you seem pissed that I exposed the fact that you have no facts to back up your claim that programs are ineffective. Thanks for making my point! The burden of proof is on those that make the claims. If you were quiet you would not have to provide anything, but you made the claim (no one else did). If you feel they are ineffective then you need to back it up. You can just say that aspirin doesn’t work or causes people to speak Spanish uncontrollably. You need to base that on some sort of study.
Otherwise we need to rely on the studies on the table which state that the programs are extremely effective. Let me know when you come up with something tangible by and independent source.
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Lols. The "BS Detector" has Whooter in a frenzy of illogic. Allegedly, this retard (TheWho) has a BA in philosophy, but now I think it may be a "BS" not a "BA".
It's so funny to watch Whooter tell everyone that the world is upside-down and backwards. I got to hand it to you, Whooter, they rarely come as dumb or as persistent as you. You're in the 99th percentile of "stupid and dogged". Congrats.
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So by your silence I take it that you cannot provide a study to back up your claims. So we can establish as a minimum that programs are “not” ineffective (We can tag this as worse case scenario). So looking at the studies we do have available, and on the table, we can conclude that programs are highly effective.
I think one of the core issues surrounding this disagreement is the instances of children being abused in these facilities which is always a present risk where children are concerned whether we are talking about daycare, babysitting or local public institutions of learning. Although we have read about occurrences of abuse they are almost always isolated cases, in line with what we see in other institutions and nothing points to a systemic problem with this particular industry.
So all in all we can conclude that the industry provides what they market to the public....... a safe environment for the children to grow, learn and get back on track in. There has been no evidence to the contrary and heavily loaded on the end of success.
I hope this helps to clear up any misconception on my part.
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Lols. The "BS Detector" has Whooter in a frenzy of illogic. Allegedly, this retard (TheWho) has a BA in philosophy, but now I think it may be a "BS" not a "BA".
It's so funny to watch Whooter tell everyone that the world is upside-down and backwards. I got to hand it to you, Whooter, they rarely come as dumb or as persistent as you. You're in the 99th percentile of "stupid and dogged". Congrats.
You got that right. I don't believe he got a philosophy degree. Nobody who even took PHI101 would make an argument that says someone is required to prove a negative. It's against all rules of logic.
Programs claim to help kids, but not one shred of empirical or clinical evidence supports that claim, ergo no studies exist that show veracity of the claim.
I know Reuben is a business school dropout (never got his degree, quitter), but I think he's lying about having a philosophy degree, because his argument is so abjectly stupid.
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So by your silence I take it that you cannot provide a study to back up your claims. So we can establish as a minimum that programs are “not” ineffective (We can tag this as worse case scenario). So looking at the studies we do have available, and on the table, we can conclude that programs are highly effective.
I think one of the core issues surrounding this disagreement is the instances of children being abused in these facilities which is always a present risk where children are concerned whether we are talking about daycare, babysitting or local public institutions of learning. Although we have read about occurrences of abuse they are almost always isolated cases, in line with what we see in other institutions and nothing points to a systemic problem with this particular industry.
So all in all we can conclude that the industry provides what they market to the public....... a safe environment for the children to grow, learn and get back on track in. There has been no evidence to the contrary and heavily loaded on the end of success.
I hope this helps to clear up any misconception on my part.
I have run across the same thing here myself. There are posters who talk alot about programs being ineffective but I have never seen one produce any evidence. Not even one study since I have been reading here.
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I have run across the same thing here myself. There are posters who talk alot about programs being ineffective but I have never seen one produce any evidence. Not even one study since I have been reading here.
Psst...hey Jimmy lad...here ya go. The Surgeon General disagrees with you and John Reuben about uncontrolled studies, by the way. Discuss at length, ye members or the Aspen/STICC goon squad.
Concerns about residential care primarily relate to criteria for admission; inconsistency of community-based treatment established in the 1980s; the costliness of such services (Friedman & Street, 1985); the risks of treatment, including failure to learn behavior needed in the community; the possibility of trauma associated with the separation from the family; difficulty reentering the family or even abandonment by the family; victimization by RTC staff; and learning of antisocial or bizarre behavior from intensive exposure to other disturbed children (Barker, 1998). These concerns are discussed below.
http://www.enterthefreudianslip.com/sur ... ential.htm (http://www.enterthefreudianslip.com/surgeon_general_mental_health_ch3_treatment_interventions_residential.htm)
Treatment Interventions
Residential Treatment Centers
Residential treatment centers are the second most restrictive form of care (next to inpatient hospitalization) for children with severe mental disorders. Although used by a relatively small percentage (8 percent) of treated children, nearly one-fourth of the national outlay on child mental health is spent on care in these settings (Burns et al., 1998). However, there is only weak evidence for their effectiveness.
A residential treatment center (RTC) is a licensed 24-hour facility (although not licensed as a hospital), which offers mental health treatment. The types of treatment vary widely; the major categories are psychoanalytic, psychoeducational, behavioral management, group therapies, medication management, and peer-cultural. Settings range from structured ones, resembling psychiatric hospitals, to those that are more like group homes or halfway houses. While formerly for long-term treatment (e.g., a year or more), RTCs under managed care are now serving more seriously disturbed youth for as briefly as 1 month for intensive evaluation and stabilization.
Concerns about residential care primarily relate to criteria for admission; inconsistency of community-based treatment established in the 1980s; the costliness of such services (Friedman & Street, 1985); the risks of treatment, including failure to learn behavior needed in the community; the possibility of trauma associated with the separation from the family; difficulty reentering the family or even abandonment by the family; victimization by RTC staff; and learning of antisocial or bizarre behavior from intensive exposure to other disturbed children (Barker, 1998). These concerns are discussed below.
In the past, admission to an RTC has been justified on the basis of community protection, child protection, and benefits of residential treatment per se (Barker, 1982). However, none of these justifications have stood up to research scrutiny. In particular, youth who display seriously violent and aggressive behavior do not appear to improve in such settings, according to limited evidence (Joshi & Rosenberg, 1997). One possible reason is that association with delinquent or deviant peers is a major risk factor for later behavior problems (Loeber & Farrington, 1998). Moreover, community interventions that target change in peer associations have been found to be highly effective at breaking contact with violent peers and reducing aggressive behaviors (Henggeler et al., 1998). Although removal from the community for a time may be necessary for some, there is evidence that highly targeted behavioral interventions provided on an outpatient basis can ameliorate such behaviors (Brestan & Eyberg, 1998). For children in the second category (i.e., those needing protection from themselves because of suicide attempts, severe substance use, abuse, or persistent running away), it is possible that a brief hospitalization for an acute crisis or intensive community-based services may be more appropriate than an RTC. An intensive long-term program such as an RTC with a high staff to child ratio may be of benefit to some children, especially when sufficient supportive services are not available in their communities. In short, there is a compelling need to clarify criteria for admission to RTCs (Wells, 1991). Previous criteria have been replaced and strengthened (i.e., with an emphasis on resources needed after discharge) by the National Association of Psychiatric Treatment Centers for Children (1990).
The evidence for outcomes of residential treatment comes from research published largely in the 1970s and 1980s and, with three exceptions, consists of uncontrolled studies (see Curry, 1991).
Of the three controlled studies of RTCs, the first evaluated a program called Project Re-Education (Re-Ed). Project Re-Ed, a model of residential treatment developed in the 1960s, focuses on training teacher-counselors, who are backed up by consultant mental health specialists. Project Re-Ed schools are located within communities, facilitating therapeutic work with the family and allowing the child to go home on weekends. Camping also is an important component of the program, inspired by the Outward Bound Schools in England. The first published study of Project Re-Ed compared outcomes for adolescent males in Project Re-Ed with untreated disturbed adolescents and with nondisturbed adolescents. Treated adolescents improved in self-esteem, control of impulsiveness, and internal control compared with untreated adolescents, according to ratings by Project Re-Ed staff and by families (Weinstein, 1974). A 1988 followup study of Project Re-Ed found that when adjustment outcomes were maintained at 6 months after discharge from Project Re-Ed, those outcomes were predicted more by community factors at admission (e.g., condition of the family and school, supportiveness of the local community) than by client factors (e.g., diagnosis, school achievement, age, IQ). This suggested that interventions in the child’s community might be as effective as placement in the treatment setting (Lewis, 1988).
The only other controlled study compared an RTC with therapeutic foster care through the Parent Therapist Program. Both client groups shared comparable backgrounds and made similar progress in their respective treatment program. However, the residential treatment cost twice as much as therapeutic foster care (Rubenstein et al., 1978).
Despite strong caveats about the quality, sophistication, and import of uncontrolled studies, several consistent findings have emerged. For most children (60 to 80 percent), gains are reported in areas such as clinical status, academic skills, and peer relationships. Whether gains are sustained following treatment appears to depend on the supportiveness of the child’s post-discharge environment (Wells, 1991). Several studies of single institutions report maintenance of benefits from 1 to 5 years later (Blackman et al., 1991; Joshi & Rosenberg, 1997). In contrast, a large longitudinal six-state study of children in publicly funded RTCs found at the 7-year followup that 75 percent of youth treated at an RTC had been either readmitted to a mental health facility (about 45 percent) or incarcerated in a correctional setting (about 30 percent) (Greenbaum et al., 1998).
In summary, youth who are placed in RTCs clearly constitute a difficult population to treat effectively. The outcomes of not providing residential care are unknown. Transferring gains from a residential setting back into the community may be difficult without clear coordination between RTC staff and community services, particularly schools, medical care, or community clinics. Typically, this type of coordination or aftercare service is not available upon discharge. The research on RTCs is not very enlightening about the potential to substitute RTC care for other levels of care, as this requires comparisons with other interventions. Given the limitations of current research, it is premature to endorse the effectiveness of residential treatment for adolescents. Moreover, research is needed to identify those groups of children and adolescents for whom the benefits of residential care outweigh the potential risks.
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Interesting that they were never able to identify which program they based their studies on....Hmmmm. Anyway lets take a closer look:
The attorney General admits that these results are old and there isn’t any data on Therapeutic Boarding schools:
The evidence for outcomes of residential treatment comes from research published largely in the 1970s and 1980s
So published in the 1970's means the data came from the 1950's and 1960's if in fact they were long term studies as stated.
Although even in the 50's and 60’s:
An intensive long-term program such as an RTC with a high staff to child ratio may be of benefit to some children, especially when sufficient supportive services are not available in their communities
The study goes on to say:
Despite strong caveats about the quality, sophistication, and import of uncontrolled studies, several consistent findings have emerged. For most children (60 to 80 percent), gains are reported in areas such as clinical status, academic skills, and peer relationships.
So we can see the gains over the last 50/60 years (since the study) and this number is probably now closer to 98%.
……
Moreover, research is needed to identify those groups of children and adolescents for whom the benefits of residential care outweigh the potential risks
Based on the success we are see today it seems they are better able to identify and target those groups of children who benefit from individual programs.
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That's your take. The Surgeon General doesn't share your enthusiasm for program's chance of success. Sorry, I share the skepticism of the Surgeon General about the efficacy of programs. Unless you have a financial stake in programs you can only view the SG's report as a warning.
Glad they pointed out the problem with willy nilly admissions, John Reuben's son Michael is a case in point. Michael obviously had severe mental health issues and his father placed him in Aspen programs which offer no mental health treatment, as we all know. Had Michael gotten appropriate treatment for his mental issues instead of detention he might be alive and well. There is a strong argument to be made that John D. Reuben is a terrible parent for not doing his homework, but Aspen should have referred Reuben to more suitable treatment.
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SG says:
Residential treatment centers are the second most restrictive form of care (next to inpatient hospitalization) for children with severe mental disorders.
Almost missed this. It is obvious that this report didnt include Therapeutic boarding Schools (TBS) because they didnt exist when the studies were done. I think if we dont agree on much we agree that the kids in programs are not severely mentally ill. (At least not before they were placed, Ha,Ha,Ha) In fact most fornits posters beleive the kids to be a perfectly normal cross section of children.
So that sort of blows that whole theory out of the water as far as the report relating to present programs.
Hooter, you can thank me later, you were sleeping on that one. You like my Ha,Ha,Ha?
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SG says:
Residential treatment centers are the second most restrictive form of care (next to inpatient hospitalization) for children with severe mental disorders.
Almost missed this. It is obvious that this report didnt include Therapeutic boarding Schools (TBS) because they didnt exist when the studies were done. I think if we dont agree on much we agree that the kids in programs are not severely mentally ill. (At least not before they were placed, Ha,Ha,Ha) In fact most fornits posters beleive the kids to be a perfectly normal cross section of children.
So that sort of blows that whole theory out of the water as far as the report relating to present programs.
Hooter, you can thank me later, you were sleeping on that one. You like my Ha,Ha,Ha?
No, you miss the point. The fraudulent misrepresentation used by programs leads parents to believe the child is getting mental health care. Otherwise they could not write a boarding school off on their taxes, could they? Aspen misled parents until they were forced in litigation to define the nature of their programs. Once clarified, Aspen was revealed as nothing but detention centers with high mortality rates.
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Glad they pointed out the problem with willy nilly admissions, John Reuben's son Michael is a case in point. Michael obviously had severe mental health issues and his father placed him in Aspen programs which offer no mental health treatment, as we all know. Had Michael gotten appropriate treatment for his mental issues instead of detention he might be alive and well. There is a strong argument to be made that John D. Reuben is a terrible parent for not doing his homework, but Aspen should have referred Reuben to more suitable treatment.
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SG says:
Residential treatment centers are the second most restrictive form of care (next to inpatient hospitalization) for children with severe mental disorders.
Almost missed this. It is obvious that this report didnt include Therapeutic boarding Schools (TBS) because they didnt exist when the studies were done. I think if we dont agree on much we agree that the kids in programs are not severely mentally ill. (At least not before they were placed, Ha,Ha,Ha) In fact most fornits posters beleive the kids to be a perfectly normal cross section of children.
So that sort of blows that whole theory out of the water as far as the report relating to present programs.
Hooter, you can thank me later, you were sleeping on that one. You like my Ha,Ha,Ha?
No, you miss the point. The fraudulent misrepresentation used by programs leads parents to believe the child is getting mental health care. Otherwise they could not write a boarding school off on their taxes, could they? Aspen misled parents until they were forced in litigation to define the nature of their programs. Once clarified, Aspen was revealed as nothing but detention centers with high mortality rates.
So we agree that the report references kids who are severely mentally ill and that the kids in programs are merely a normal cross section of kids. So the report doesnt apply in this case regardless of the tax deductions people are taking or poor marketing practices. Program kids dont fit within the boundary conditions defined by the Surgeon General. So the report doesnt apply to TBS's.
Note: Tax deductions, by the way are handled by another branch (IRS I believe)
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So we agree that the report references kids who are severely mentally ill and that the kids in programs are merely a normal cross section of kids. So the report doesnt apply in this case regardless of the tax deductions people are taking or poor marketing practices. Program kids dont fit within the boundary conditions defined by the Surgeon General. So the report doesnt apply to TBS's.
Note: Tax deductions, by the way are handled by another branch (IRS I believe)
No, we do not. The report begins:
Residential treatment centers are the second most restrictive form of care (next to inpatient hospitalization) for children with severe mental disorders
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The TTI has always billed itself as "treatment" - R "T" C- despite Aspen being forced out of that market. Because Aspen was fairly recently forced to admit it does not provide mental health treatment in no way excludes them from the SG's report. I also wonder how they can get away with being called a TBS, actually.
Note: RTC investigations (and the investigators have a sharp eye on Aspen and their marketers), by the way are handled by another branch (GAO I believe)
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Glad they pointed out the problem with willy nilly admissions, John Reuben's son Michael is a case in point. Michael obviously had severe mental health issues and his father placed him in Aspen programs which offer no mental health treatment, as we all know. Had Michael gotten appropriate treatment for his mental issues instead of detention he might be alive and well. There is a strong argument to be made that John D. Reuben is a terrible parent for not doing his homework, but Aspen should have referred Reuben to more suitable treatment.
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The TTI has always billed itself as "treatment" - R "T" C- despite Aspen being forced out of that market. Because Aspen was fairly recently forced to admit it does not provide mental health treatment in no way excludes them from the SG's report. I also wonder how they can get away with being called a TBS, actually.
The term "therapeutic boarding school" has been created but recently. However, there have been such entities in existence since at least the mid 1960s. Before that they were called reform schools.
These places have historically called themselves by a plethora of names, depending on the pertinent audience in question.
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The TTI has always billed itself as "treatment" - R "T" C- despite Aspen being forced out of that market. Because Aspen was fairly recently forced to admit it does not provide mental health treatment in no way excludes them from the SG's report. I also wonder how they can get away with being called a TBS, actually.
The term "therapeutic boarding school" has been created but recently. However, there have been such entities in existence since at least the mid 1960s. Before that they were called reform schools.
These places have historically called themselves by a plethora of names, depending on the pertinent audience in question.
...Or the current legal troubles afflicting them, right, Ursus?
The Guest argument about the SG report not being applicable, etc., is absurd considering the thread it is posted on. John Reuben's son had mental illness, that is a given, and he was placed in Aspen programs, received no legitimate treatment, and sadly died from his troubles. Did John Reuben think his son would get mental health treatment at Aspen, and why?
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It is obvious that this report didnt include Therapeutic boarding Schools (TBS) because they didnt exist when the studies were done. I think if we dont agree on much we agree that the kids in programs are not severely mentally ill. (At least not before they were placed, Ha,Ha,Ha)
Good point! A lot of kids, exhibiting behavior entirely within the "normal" range for teenage comeuppance, but not within the range of their parents' tolerance, enter TBSs as pretty typical adolescents. No alarm bells here.
After a year or two of brain salad surgery, however, all in the name of fixing that teen with Shame & Blame™, some of these same kids exit their TBSs with severe depression and PTSD. Some even as victims of physical assault, injury, and rape. And some, tragically, even in a casket.
Doesn't sound like these kids got "fixed." It sounds like some kids get destroyed by their TBS experience.
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The term "therapeutic boarding school" has been created but recently. However, there have been such entities in existence since at least the mid 1960s. Before that they were called reform schools.
Before that they were called "cults."
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It is obvious that this report didnt include Therapeutic boarding Schools (TBS) because they didnt exist when the studies were done. I think if we dont agree on much we agree that the kids in programs are not severely mentally ill. (At least not before they were placed, Ha,Ha,Ha)
Good point! A lot of kids, exhibiting behavior entirely within the "normal" range for teenage comeuppance, but not within the range of their parents' tolerance, enter TBSs as pretty typical adolescents. No alarm bells here.
After a year or two of brain salad surgery, however, all in the name of fixing that teen with Shame & Blame™, some of these same kids exit their TBSs with severe depression and PTSD. Some even as victims of physical assault, injury, and rape. And some, tragically, even in a casket.
Doesn't sound like these kids got "fixed." It sounds like some kids get destroyed by their TBS experience.
So we can see the surgeon Generals study doesnt apply to these places. They referenced RTC which took in severely mentally ill kids. They never studied TBS's. This was outside their scope.
We also dont know how many kids came out feet first in a box or PTSD because that study hasnt been done either.
What we have are the studies before us on the table by Canyon research and Colgate University.
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The term "therapeutic boarding school" has been created but recently. However, there have been such entities in existence since at least the mid 1960s. Before that they were called reform schools.
Before that they were called "cults."
Ha,Ha Exactly!! Back then they tried to get the whole family involved, give up your worldly possessions and they would keep you as long as they could.
The programs today cant be called that because they have a predetermined beginning and end period, fixed costs and the rest of the family is left out of it. You dont have to sell flowers at the airport!!! (Unless you want to).
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Why was John Reuben's son admitted to ASR with the mental troubles his father claims he had at the time?
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It is obvious that this report didnt include Therapeutic boarding Schools (TBS) because they didnt exist when the studies were done. I think if we dont agree on much we agree that the kids in programs are not severely mentally ill. (At least not before they were placed, Ha,Ha,Ha)
Good point! A lot of kids, exhibiting behavior entirely within the "normal" range for teenage comeuppance, but not within the range of their parents' tolerance, enter TBSs as pretty typical adolescents. No alarm bells here.
After a year or two of brain salad surgery, however, all in the name of fixing that teen with Shame & Blame™, some of these same kids exit their TBSs with severe depression and PTSD. Some even as victims of physical assault, injury, and rape. And some, tragically, even in a casket.
Doesn't sound like these kids got "fixed." It sounds like some kids get destroyed by their TBS experience.
So we can see the surgeon Generals study doesnt apply to these places. They referenced RTC which took in severely mentally ill kids. They never studied TBS's. This was outside their scope.
We also dont know how many kids came out feet first in a box or PTSD because that study hasnt been done either.
What we have are the studies before us on the table by Canyon research and Colgate University.
Aspen has never made claims of treating mental illness, is that what you are saying? Because your answer is very important.
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What we have are the studies before us on the table by Canyon research and Colgate University.
...Which are, if anything, more like "consumer satisfaction surveys" of a highly pre-selected pool. They are not "studies" according to commonly accepted rigorous scientific standards. I believe the Surgeon General's report euphemistically referred to this type of reportage as "uncontrolled studies":
The evidence for outcomes of residential treatment comes from research published largely in the 1970s and 1980s and, with three exceptions, consists of uncontrolled studies (see Curry, 1991).[/list]
Moreover, the Surgeon General goes on to say:
Given the limitations of current research, it is premature to endorse the effectiveness of residential treatment for adolescents. Moreover, research is needed to identify those groups of children and adolescents for whom the benefits of residential care outweigh the potential risks.[/list]
Funny, I don't recall either the Canyon or Colgate University "studies" discussing these potential risks. Shouldn't that have been part of the overall picture that a bona fide study -- of scientific merit -- would seek to address?
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Despite strong caveats about the quality, sophistication, and import of uncontrolled studies
"uncontrolled studies" would include paid advertising like Ellen Behren's. See, the SG report is still contemporary!
Given the limitations of current research, it is premature to endorse the effectiveness of residential treatment for adolescents. Moreover, research is needed to identify those groups of children and adolescents for whom the benefits of residential care outweigh the potential risks.
Note the report does not cite mentally disturbed teens, it uses the all encompassing "residential treatment for adolescents".
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Given the limitations of current research, it is premature to endorse the effectiveness of residential treatment for adolescents. Moreover, research is needed to identify those groups of children and adolescents for whom the benefits of residential care outweigh the potential risks.
I tend to agree. It would have been premature to endorse the effectiveness back in 1970. So we see the study didn’t find the programs to be ineffective and they go on to say that if the children are selected properly then the benefits would outweigh the potential risks.
Note the report does not cite mentally disturbed teens, it uses the all encompassing "residential treatment for adolescents".
Lets look at the full quote again:
Residential treatment centers are the second most restrictive form of care (next to inpatient hospitalization) for children with severe mental disorders.
They didn’t look at Residential Treatment for kids with cancer or blood disorders or mild cases of mental illness, but they targeted RTC’s for kids with Severe Mental disorders. I think we all can agree that the kids in programs dont suffer from extreme mental illness.
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AuntieEm2 wrote:
Before that they were called "cults."
Ha,Ha Exactly!! Back then they tried to get the whole family involved, give up your worldly possessions and they would keep you as long as they could.
The programs today cant be called that because they have a predetermined beginning and end period, fixed costs and the rest of the family is left out of it.
Twisting words again. Thearapeutic boarding schools today still operate as cults.
In my experience with my niece, there was no predetermined beginning and end period--or more accurately, the beginning and end dates we were given were lies. We were told three months. Then six months. Then a year. Then a year and half. Then two and a half years. Then she'd be graduating any day. Then she graduated, but no, could not come home until she had completed a life skills program. (Life skills? Wasn't that what her parents had just spent a half a million dollars to teach her? Half a million dollars and she can't do algebra or cook a meal or shop for groceries or write a resume?)
Three months was the lie. Three years was the fact. Fixed costs were anything but.
I realize that no one working for or affiliated with a program would want to see themselves as connected to a cult. But the evidence is there.
It is well-documented that programs have their roots in the notorious Synanon cult and other cults. The "raps" and confrontational group therapy models used in programs are cult-perfected practices. As in cults, children have no liberty to leave when they've had enough. And like cults, the main purpose of the organization is to separate people from their families and families from their money. Follow the cash; it's a short distance to a cult.
You are so right about one thing: the family is "left out of it." Yes, these cults do keep the entire rest of the family far, far away from the child. They are exceptionally anti-family.
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AuntieEm2 wrote:
Before that they were called "cults."
Ha,Ha Exactly!! Back then they tried to get the whole family involved, give up your worldly possessions and they would keep you as long as they could.
The programs today cant be called that because they have a predetermined beginning and end period, fixed costs and the rest of the family is left out of it.
Twisting words again. Thearapeutic boarding schools today still operate as cults.
In my experience with my niece, there was no predetermined beginning and end period--or more accurately, the beginning and end dates we were given were lies. We were told three months. Then six months. Then a year. Then a year and half. Then two and a half years. Then she'd be graduating any day. Then she graduated, but no, could not come home until she had completed a life skills program. (Life skills? Wasn't that what her parents had just spent a half a million dollars to teach her? Half a million dollars and she can't do algebra or cook a meal or shop for groceries or write a resume?)
Three months was the lie. Three years was the fact. Fixed costs were anything but.
I realize that no one working for or affiliated with a program would want to see themselves as connected to a cult. But the evidence is there.
It is well-documented that programs have their roots in the notorious Synanon cult and other cults. The "raps" and confrontational group therapy models used in programs are cult-perfected practices. As in cults, children have no liberty to leave when they've had enough. And like cults, the main purpose of the organization is to separate people from their families and families from their money. Follow the cash; it's a short distance to a cult.
You are so right about one thing: the family is "left out of it." Yes, these cults do keep the entire rest of the family far, far away from the child. They are exceptionally anti-family.
Thats unfortunate AuntieEm. We had a totally different experience. We were told 12 to 16 months and we finished up in 14 months. We knew the costs up front. It was transparent and the therapists inside the program communicated to the kids therapist outside. We didnt see any evidence of cultish behavior. This says 2 things to me: That programs have changed since your niece attended or there is variation from program to program.
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The "predetermined end" was supposed to be 18 in a worst case scenario, when a kid could shirk the yoke. Programs got greedy and encouraged parents to seek extended guardianship of their kids past 18 to keep them confined.
There is no predetermined beginning and end in a program. Just like a cult, you are trapped with no control over your life and the decisions affecting you.
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1
The "predetermined end" was supposed to be 18 in a worst case scenario, when a kid could shirk the yoke. Programs got greedy and encouraged parents to seek extended guardianship of their kids past 18 to keep them confined.
There is no predetermined beginning and end in a program. Just like a cult, you are trapped with no control over your life and the decisions affecting you.
I am glad our place was not like that. It goes to show that the parents really need to do their homework before placing their kid.
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AuntieEm wrote:
You are so right about one thing: the family is "left out of it." Yes, these cults do keep the entire rest of the family far, far away from the child. They are exceptionally anti-family.
That is terrible. I read a few horror stories here on fornits with places like straight where they were anti-family. I feel bad for families who had to go thru that. We experienced just the opposite. The goal was to bring the family closer together which they did and it was in shorter time then they originally thought it would take.
I hope they put all those places out of business and expose their business model and make it illegal.
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1The "predetermined end" was supposed to be 18 in a worst case scenario, when a kid could shirk the yoke. Programs got greedy and encouraged parents to seek extended guardianship of their kids past 18 to keep them confined.
There is no predetermined beginning and end in a program. Just like a cult, you are trapped with no control over your life and the decisions affecting you.
I am glad our place was not like that. It goes to show that the parents really need to do their homework before placing their kid.
The subject of this thread didn't.
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I hope they put all those places out of business and expose their business model and make it illegal.
Perhaps you would like to start with this one:
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28474&start=0 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28474&start=0)
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x
I hope they put all those places out of business and expose their business model and make it illegal.
Perhaps you would like to start with this one:
http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php? ... 74&start=0 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28474&start=0)
I am not going to work to put places out of business. I wouldnt be very good at it. But the place you chose, Sagewalk, has predetermined end points and I havent read where they encourage families to be apart. This was a poor example of a cult, I just dont see it. Are there any programs left which try to drive a wedge in-between family members and extend stays from a promised 3 months to 3 years? I havent heard of a place that is presently up and running.
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x
I hope they put all those places out of business and expose their business model and make it illegal.
Perhaps you would like to start with this one:
http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php? ... 74&start=0 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28474&start=0)
I am not going to work to put places out of business. I wouldnt be very good at it. But the place you chose, Sagewalk, has predetermined end points and I havent read where they encourage families to be apart. This was a poor example of a cult, I just dont see it. Are there any programs left which try to drive a wedge in-between family members and extend stays from a promised 3 months to 3 years? I havent heard of a place that is presently up and running.
That is actually a valid point. The programs of today dont try to drive a wedge between the kid and his/her family. They may not be effective but I dont think they can be called a cult. They just dont have any of the lasting attributes which define a cult. Those places are long gone.
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x
I hope they put all those places out of business and expose their business model and make it illegal.
Perhaps you would like to start with this one:
http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php? ... 74&start=0 (http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=28474&start=0)
I am not going to work to put places out of business. I wouldnt be very good at it. But the place you chose, Sagewalk, has predetermined end points and I havent read where they encourage families to be apart. This was a poor example of a cult, I just dont see it. Are there any programs left which try to drive a wedge in-between family members and extend stays from a promised 3 months to 3 years? I havent heard of a place that is presently up and running.
That is actually a valid point. The programs of today dont try to drive a wedge between the kid and his/her family. They may not be effective but I dont think they can be called a cult. They just dont have any of the lasting attributes which define a cult. Those places are long gone.
Well, SageWalk just had a kid that was killed. That is worse then being in a cult!!!
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Well, SageWalk just had a kid that was killed. That is worse then being in a cult!!!
Well that is a different subject. The places could be filled with axe murderers and still not be a cult. The programs that I have read about that are operating today dont try to stretch out the stay from 3 months to 3 years like that lady was saying. The programs try to bring families together as a goal instead of driving them apart. People are confusing todays programs with those of the past. That lady might have had her neice in a program years ago who knows?
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Well, SageWalk just had a kid that was killed. That is worse then being in a cult!!!
Well that is a different subject. The places could be filled with axe murderers and still not be a cult. The programs that I have read about that are operating today dont try to stretch out the stay from 3 months to 3 years like that lady was saying. The programs try to bring families together as a goal instead of driving them apart. People are confusing todays programs with those of the past. That lady might have had her neice in a program years ago who knows?
"That lady" was talking about Boulder Creek Academy, the incident in question happened within the past few years (niece got out about 6 months ago, if I'm not mistaken), and yes, they are still in operation, obviously.
Recent enough cult for ya, Whooter?
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Well, SageWalk just had a kid that was killed. That is worse then being in a cult!!!
Well that is a different subject. The places could be filled with axe murderers and still not be a cult. The programs that I have read about that are operating today dont try to stretch out the stay from 3 months to 3 years like that lady was saying. The programs try to bring families together as a goal instead of driving them apart. People are confusing todays programs with those of the past. That lady might have had her neice in a program years ago who knows?
"That lady" was talking about Boulder Creek Academy, the incident in question happened within the past few years (niece got out about 6 months ago, if I'm not mistaken), and yes, they are still in operation, obviously.
Recent enough cult for ya, Whooter?
We should try to identify these places and flag them. I dont think it is right that they tell parents 3 months and then it turns into 3 years. some of the info did seem cultish to me. All the more reason to try to seperate them out. My experience was anything but cultish so there are large variations from program to program which tells me that the cults are on the way out and that people have a choice. The parents need to get better informed somehow before making a decision.
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Well, SageWalk just had a kid that was killed. That is worse then being in a cult!!!
Well that is a different subject. The places could be filled with axe murderers and still not be a cult. The programs that I have read about that are operating today dont try to stretch out the stay from 3 months to 3 years like that lady was saying. The programs try to bring families together as a goal instead of driving them apart. People are confusing todays programs with those of the past. That lady might have had her neice in a program years ago who knows?
"That lady" was talking about Boulder Creek Academy, the incident in question happened within the past few years (niece got out about 6 months ago, if I'm not mistaken), and yes, they are still in operation, obviously.
Recent enough cult for ya, Whooter?
We should try to identify these places and flag them. I dont think it is right that they tell parents 3 months and then it turns into 3 years. some of the info did seem cultish to me. All the more reason to try to seperate them out. My experience was anything but cultish so there are large variations from program to program which tells me that the cults are on the way out and that people have a choice. The parents need to get better informed somehow before making a decision.
You need to be a little careful. people here will take one experience and try to sell it as the norm for an entire industry. Dont get too bogged down with a single event. I have seen stories of someone who attended CEDU being reprinted and applied to programs which are not even operating in the same decade. This sends a clear message that most programs are safe, but there are a few rotten apples that need to be avoided.
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You need to be a little careful. people here will take one experience and try to sell it as the norm for an entire industry. Dont get too bogged down with a single event. I have seen stories of someone who attended CEDU being reprinted and applied to programs which are not even operating in the same decade. This sends a clear message that most programs are safe, but there are a few rotten apples that need to be avoided.
Reprogramming a kid's self concept, especially when the process entails a "break them down, build 'em back up to desired specs" modality ... is never safe.
Put that process into the context of a dearth of experienced therapeutic personnel doing the breaking down, not to mention the "Lord of the Flies" milieu (peer culture), all driven by a righteous agenda of "save the kids at any cost" (the ends justify the means), and you have a diabolical stew of thought coercion and thought reform.
This is not just "a few rotten apples." This is the underlying premise of the whole industry.
Whatever happened to, "First, do no harm?"
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That is actually a valid point. The programs of today dont try to drive a wedge between the kid and his/her family.
Wrong. As of today I know of one kid not allowed to speak to a parent at all. You've said not to criticize the entire industry due to a few "rotten apples" (people who kill kids through negligence or abuse are worse than rotten apples), and then you make a broad statement about the whole industry? "The programs of today" include all in operation, including your "rotten apples". Not very logical.
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That is actually a valid point. The programs of today dont try to drive a wedge between the kid and his/her family.
Wrong. As of today I know of one kid not allowed to speak to a parent at all. You've said not to criticize the entire industry due to a few "rotten apples" (people who kill kids through negligence or abuse are worse than rotten apples), and then you make a broad statement about the whole industry? "The programs of today" include all in operation, including your "rotten apples". Not very logical.
So as a minimum what we know is that not all programs are alike. There are programs which work with kids and families to bring them closer together,my daughter being an example and thousands of others.
I know a child who was abused by their parents but I dont dislike "all" parents because of it Nor do I feel "all" kids should be taken away from their families because of this one event.
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That is actually a valid point. The programs of today dont try to drive a wedge between the kid and his/her family.
Wrong. As of today I know of one kid not allowed to speak to a parent at all. You've said not to criticize the entire industry due to a few "rotten apples" (people who kill kids through negligence or abuse are worse than rotten apples), and then you make a broad statement about the whole industry? "The programs of today" include all in operation, including your "rotten apples". Not very logical.
So as a minimum what we know is that not all programs are alike. There are programs which work with kids and families to bring them closer together,my daughter being an example and thousands of others.
I know a child who was abused by their parents but I dont dislike "all" parents because of it Nor do I feel "all" kids should be taken away from their families because of this one event.
We haven't reached any conclusions together, please stop the sweeping and childish generalizations. The parents not allowed to communicate with their children are not abusers or even alleged abusers, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed contact unless certain DCS rules are followed. This is a decision made by the programs when the parents or a parent disagrees with the program's methods. Typical cult behavior. Rather than attempt to gain the parent's confidence, they cut them off.
"Rotten apples"? Aspen is an orchard of necrosis, start chopping.
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That is actually a valid point. The programs of today dont try to drive a wedge between the kid and his/her family.
Wrong. As of today I know of one kid not allowed to speak to a parent at all. You've said not to criticize the entire industry due to a few "rotten apples" (people who kill kids through negligence or abuse are worse than rotten apples), and then you make a broad statement about the whole industry? "The programs of today" include all in operation, including your "rotten apples". Not very logical.
So as a minimum what we know is that not all programs are alike. There are programs which work with kids and families to bring them closer together,my daughter being an example and thousands of others.
I know a child who was abused by their parents but I dont dislike "all" parents because of it Nor do I feel "all" kids should be taken away from their families because of this one event.
We haven't reached any conclusions together, please stop the sweeping and childish generalizations. The parents not allowed to communicate with their children are not abusers or even alleged abusers, otherwise they wouldn't be allowed contact unless certain DCS rules are followed. This is a decision made by the programs when the parents or a parent disagrees with the program's methods. Typical cult behavior. Rather than attempt to gain the parent's confidence, they cut them off.
"Rotten apples"? Aspen is an orchard of necrosis, start chopping.
You have described one experience and I have experienced others. I think what parents need to do better is identify those programs which focus on bringing families together vs moving them apart.
Some areas I suggest to look at is whether the childs therapists are licensed and if they are willing to work with the childs therapist at home. Does the program encourage communication between parent and child. Does the program have set end points on when the child will come home. Do they have a trransition program which will help the family and child come together easily when the program is over.
If a parent gets positive feedback and asks the right questions there is a good probablitity the program may be a good fit.
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You have described one experience and I have experienced others.
The guest described a current situation and you are recounting a past experience. You put much emphasis on current events in programs.
Some areas I suggest to look at is whether the childs therapists are licensed
You are no longer discussing Aspen when you mention therapy. They do not provide any by their own admission. Are you trying to get them into more litigation?
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You have described one experience and I have experienced others.
The guest described a current situation and you are recounting a past experience. You put much emphasis on current events in programs.
Some areas I suggest to look at is whether the childs therapists are licensed
You are no longer discussing Aspen when you mention therapy. They do not provide any by their own admission. Are you trying to get them into more litigation?
I think it is important to discuss the industry as it is today. I recall my own experiences as well as kids who are emerging from programs presently. Being exposed to kids from the past as well as the present gives me a sense of how the industry has grown and changed over the years.
As far as litigation goes. I dont think you or I could effect that here on the forum. If Aspen chooses to not provide therapy then that is their choice. They were backing out of the therapist business quite a few years ago as I remember (in a few programs of theirs) and were subing it out to local therapists instead. I believe this keeps their liability and esposure down and still allows them to market as a therapeutic school.
Many school systems are starting to do this also to keep the towns from getting sued.
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It does appear Aspen is being deceitful. Their old websites indicate the outdoor programs DID provide therapy. This is the kind of fraudulent advertising and misrepresentation the FTC is looking for in this terrible industry.
http://web.archive.org/web/200112051226 ... r-edu.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20011205122603/aspeneducation.com/Outdoor-edu.html)
Outdoor therapy programs, sometimes referred to as Wilderness programs, have proven themselves to be exceptional catalysts for change in troubled children and teenagers. Because of our reputation for quality, safety and longevity, many of Aspen's programs have been highlighted in TV documentaries and written about in the national media. This unique experience can be described as a "rite of passage," a transformational process that is difficult to find in our fast-paced, modern society. Our therapists and counselors guide teens toward self-reliance and self-respect. The impact of these programs on troubled teens with such behavioral problems as low self-esteem, poor school performance, defiance of authority, depression, and drug or alcohol abuse has been well documented. Parents can feel confident that their children will get the treatment and care they need at Aspen's Outdoor Therapy Programs.
Parents can feel confident that their children will get the treatment and care they need at Aspen's Outdoor Therapy Programs.
The above statement is troublesome, very troublesome indeed. This is a matter needing official investigation and no doubt you concur, since transparency in the TTI is a priority with you. A shocking discovery, considering Aspen's definition of their services.
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Let's look at a more contemporary archive:
http://web.archive.org/web/200802241410 ... r-edu.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20080224141058/www.aspeneducation.com/Outdoor-edu.html)
Aspen Achievement Academy - Loa, Utah
Located in Southern Utah, Aspen Achievement Academy is a flexible length of stay program for adolescents 13-17, emphasizing therapy, experiential learning and behavioral change. As one of the few licensed and accredited outdoor treatment programs, AAA has a decade of history in providing high impact professional staffed treatment to adolescents and their families. As a clinically based program , Aspen Achievement Academy is contracted with a number of insurance companies and EAP's to provide treatment for mental health and substance abuse.
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Again. This is not a few years ago, this is last year, we should take another look at the dates on the lawsuit. It seems we may be able to encourage if not effect litigation on this forum.
http://web.archive.org/web/200802241410 ... r-edu.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20080224141058/www.aspeneducation.com/Outdoor-edu.html)
SUWS of the Carolinas - Old Fort, North Carolina
SUWS of the Carolinas is a therapeutic wilderness program with a focus on clinical intervention and assessment. The program uses the outdoors as an alternative to conventional treatment environments, while engaging students using traditional therapeutic methods. The wilderness setting removes modern distractions, simplifies choices and teaches valuable lessons. As a result, students begin to accept responsibility for personal decisions, address individual and family issues, and become invested in their own personal growth. Since 1981, SUWS programs have provided essential guidance and support to thousands of misdirected and at-risk adolescents. SUWS of the Carolinas specializes in the assessment and treatment of students ages 13-17.
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Again. This is not a few years ago, this is last year, we should take another look at the dates on the lawsuit. It seems we may be able to encourage if not effect litigation on this forum.
http://web.archive.org/web/200802241410 ... r-edu.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20080224141058/www.aspeneducation.com/Outdoor-edu.html)
SUWS of the Carolinas - Old Fort, North Carolina
SUWS of the Carolinas is a therapeutic wilderness program with a focus on clinical intervention and assessment. The program uses the outdoors as an alternative to conventional treatment environments, while engaging students using traditional therapeutic methods. The wilderness setting removes modern distractions, simplifies choices and teaches valuable lessons. As a result, students begin to accept responsibility for personal decisions, address individual and family issues, and become invested in their own personal growth. Since 1981, SUWS programs have provided essential guidance and support to thousands of misdirected and at-risk adolescents. SUWS of the Carolinas specializes in the assessment and treatment of students ages 13-17.
Great post, thanks. This is what I am talking about, this is current information. I believe they also have a better than 90% success rate at SUWS of the carolinas. Many of these kids are turned around within a few weeks which is great option for many families and kids who do not need the benefit of a longer termed program or boarding solution.
Link (http://http://www.suwscarolinas.com/)
While you are on-line check out their independent studies on Wilderness programs. It is quite impressive.
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Quit muckin up this thread with off topic jibberish. Finish your argument Here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=349007&sid=dbf40d7f0fcce7e582e7abc6c223caee&sid=dbf40d7f0fcce7e582e7abc6c223caee#p349007)
Thank you
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Again. This is not a few years ago, this is last year, we should take another look at the dates on the lawsuit. It seems we may be able to encourage if not effect litigation on this forum.
http://web.archive.org/web/200802241410 ... r-edu.html (http://web.archive.org/web/20080224141058/www.aspeneducation.com/Outdoor-edu.html)
SUWS of the Carolinas - Old Fort, North Carolina
SUWS of the Carolinas is a therapeutic wilderness program with a focus on clinical intervention and assessment. The program uses the outdoors as an alternative to conventional treatment environments, while engaging students using traditional therapeutic methods. The wilderness setting removes modern distractions, simplifies choices and teaches valuable lessons. As a result, students begin to accept responsibility for personal decisions, address individual and family issues, and become invested in their own personal growth. Since 1981, SUWS programs have provided essential guidance and support to thousands of misdirected and at-risk adolescents. SUWS of the Carolinas specializes in the assessment and treatment of students ages 13-17.
Thank you, Carpenter, for bringing up these facts. Aspen clearly advertises falsely, promising therapy but delivering none. Many kids have died.
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Great post, thanks. This is what I am talking about, this is current information. I believe they also have a better than 90% success rate at SUWS of the carolinas. Many of these kids are turned around within a few weeks which is great option for many families and kids who do not need the benefit of a longer termed program or boarding solution.
Link (http://http://www.suwscarolinas.com/)
While you are on-line check out their independent studies on Wilderness programs. It is quite impressive.
Independent studies? Either you don't know the definition of "independent" or you are simply obtuse. Who paid for these uncontrolled studies the Surgeon General issues strong caveats about?
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(http://http://archives.stuffonmycat.com/media/2/20051022-ROMARIO.jpg)
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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I'm only speaking for myself. I told this guy several times not to trifle with me, but he did it anyway.
Apparently some people here either knew or suspected "who" he was but lacked the testicular fortitude to buck up. I do not suffer from that shortcoming.
John David Reuben posted for nearly five years here, mostly anonymously, taunting and degrading people who suffered at the hands of people just like him.
People like John David Reuben, a.k.a. TheWho, believe children are commodities and any business that can raise its earned value added assessment by exploiting their vulnerability for financial gain is a good business. For people like John, children have no rights and no say.
To add insult to injury, he then claims to be a "survivor" because people loathe him here and told him so, as if he had no choice but to stay and take it.
He could have left by his own volition at any time to stop whatever discomfort he may have felt (which I suspect is none anyway; he got off on it), a luxury not afforded to privately incarcerated children like his sons, Mike (RIP) and Max, whom were both forced into programs against their will and forced to stay there until they turned 18 or until daddy gave their jailers the OK to cut them loose.
:notworthy: :notworthy:
Therein is the crux of the argument. He railroads children into virtual private kiddie jails where they have no choice but to cope with the abuse and neglect, but poor little Johnny paints himself as a victim here, like a fucking impotent crybaby.
This is a man who doesn't deserve to have children in the first place. And I'm going to spend every minute of my spare time educating anyone who will listen about what a twisted little psychopath this scrawny little bastard is.
:notworthy:
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John sent his own kids to three of the worst of the worst - SUWS, ASR and HLA. Now he has only one kid left. What would possess any parent to let John place their kid when he has a 50% death rate for his OWN kids? Makes no sense.
"Hi! This is John speaking. I have imprisoned both of my kids and one died. Would you like me to place yours? Programs are safe!"
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Sounds suspiciously like the grant that The Seed received http://http://www.thestraights.com/people/medical-doctors/medical-research.htm
STICC Receives $100,000 Grant from the Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention
To Our Schools and Programs: Be a part of helping teens and their families, and share in that public recognition and prestige through the Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative network of contributors, providers, referring parties, parents, and the government institutions that support us. Please click here to view our Press Release on StrugglingTeens.com.
Many thanks to Congressman Ed Markey of Massachusetts for his support of Saving Teens methodology, and the opportunity to apply for our federal grant!
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Here's some questions, John. Did you think ever think it could be harmfully abusive and dangerous to have Michael kidnapped, then imprisoned in a closed institution ungoverned by any legal body and without authentication of the “therapy” it claimed to offer.
Do you feel responsible at all for what became of Micheal? Do you feel remorse? You said an ASR victim’s description of its abusive “therapy” synched with your own son’s description, but that your son benefited from it.
Considering your son is dead, would you like to reconsider the logic behind that statement?
Was posting his photo along with the message "addiction was the disease that took him" a way of postmortemly "winning," of “proving” that he was an addict, the position you and ASR, fought to make him accept for a long time.
Personally, I'd say "memorializing" him as an addict and everlasting example of how bad teens can end up humiliates him. Id say using his corpse as an ad for your business exploits him.
I’d say humiliating and exploiting him is something you rationalize as love. I’d say you’ve been doing that for a very, very long time.
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When all your kids end up in programs, it is a good indication there's a problem with the parenting.
I see what you are saying, seems we agree somewhat. So when the other siblings are doing okay and its just the one kid that needs a program then its a good indication it is just the kid who has the problem. This has actually been my argument also.
http://http://tinyurl.com/y89lwwt
Arletha Schauteet attended a sibling interview on Oct 23, 1981 in order to see her brother. She was held against her will until April 21, 1982. At one point she had escaped only to be kidnapped, in a violent 30 minute struggle, by her mother, two adult males, and a woman and taken back to Straight. At one point she says Miller Newton told her that if she persisted in saying she was held against her will, "the state of Florida would take over and put my mother in jail for kidnapping." Detective Brown from the Sanford, Fl Police Department secured her release. [Judge C. Vernon Mize signed a preemptory Writ of Habeas Corpus in the interest of Ms. Schauteet, the date is smeared, but appears to be 1982.] On Jan 19, 1983, an 18 year-old student intern in the Seminole County's sheriff's office named Hope Hyrons (photo top next page) attended a sibling interview so she could visit her brother. They tried to make her sign herself into Straight. She resisted, and she was made to walk and hitch hike back to Longwood, Fl--a 2 hour drive away. A month later she was kidnapped by her mother and father and two strange men and carried to Straight. She fought to get out of the intake room and was restrained. When she told her captors her legal rights were being violated, she says Rev. Miller Newton walked in and said, ""Well, I don't give a damn about your legal rights." Two days later a social services official secured her release. Newton and Straight settled out-of-court with her in 1983.(10) On June 19, 1982, Fred Collins, Jr, a B level engineering student at Virginia Polytechnic Institute, (Fred now has a Ph.D. in mathematics) attended a Straight sibling interview in order to visit his brother. Fred was detained in a room with guards at the door for 7 - 10 hours, refused permission to go to the bathroom by a group of kids who related to him their stories of perverted sexual activities and drug addiction, trying to persuade him to admit to same. He finally consented to sign in for a 14 day observation period. [Thirteen years later, Marilyn Kearns' intake at Kids of North Jersey sounds remarkably similar to the experience of Fred Collins, Arletha Schauteet, and Hope Hyrons. Ms. Kearns alleges that when she was 23 years old, she attended a sibling interview at Kids, preliminary to visiting her sister. She says she was held in an intake room for hours until she agreed to sign up for treatment herself! [from author interview] ] Four and a half months later, 20 - 25 pounds lighter, Fred escaped from Straight. In a 1983 trial in which Miller Newton testified, Fred was awarded $220,000 for false imprisonment.(11)
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John sent his own kids to three of the worst of the worst - SUWS, ASR and HLA. Now he has only one kid left. What would possess any parent to let John place their kid when he has a 50% death rate for his OWN kids? Makes no sense.
"Hi! This is John speaking. I have imprisoned both of my kids and one died. Would you like me to place yours? Programs are safe!"
Sad, but true. Equal parts of both.
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Whooter is a loser. Look at this book review:
Link (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
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Ya know....this is not posting. This is nothing but pure spam, shilling for that HUGELY BIASED BOOK, written by a man who gets PAID BY ASPEN ED. Does anyone REALLY think he's gonna be objective when they're supplying his income???????
Ginger, Psy etc......isn't it time that the abuse of this board stop?? Are we seriously gonna let this sick fuckwad advertise for programs????? He's already been profiting from his own son's death. Enough is enough.
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Ya know....this is not posting. This is nothing but pure spam, shilling for that HUGELY BIASED BOOK, written by a man who gets PAID BY ASPEN ED. Does anyone REALLY think he's gonna be objective when they're supplying his income???????
Ginger, Psy etc......isn't it time that the abuse of this board stop?? Are we seriously gonna let this sick fuckwad advertise for programs????? He's already been profiting from his own son's death. Enough is enough.
We looked into it and found that the links are leading the reader to a "blog site" which talks about a book on the industry. He is not shilling any programs or spamming. We do the same thing with our book list at the top of the page.
The Whooter is harmless, just ignore him.
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Ya know....this is not posting. This is nothing but pure spam, shilling for that HUGELY BIASED BOOK, written by a man who gets PAID BY ASPEN ED. Does anyone REALLY think he's gonna be objective when they're supplying his income???????
Ginger, Psy etc......isn't it time that the abuse of this board stop?? Are we seriously gonna let this sick fuckwad advertise for programs????? He's already been profiting from his own son's death. Enough is enough.
We looked into it and found that the links are leading the reader to a "Blog site (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)" which talks about a book on the industry. He is not shilling any programs or spamming. We do the same thing with our book list at the top of the page.
The Whooter (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) is harmless, just ignore him.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
John Reuben is a seriously troubled parent.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
John Reuben is a seriously troubled parent. For more info:
Whooter (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
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Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
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Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
If you dont feel up for donating then get yourself some unbiased information (or at least check out an opposing view):
Independent "Book" on the Industry (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic:
Whooter (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)?
John, is this one of the "SICCy (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
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Ha,Ha,Ha
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From: John Reuben [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:16 PMTo: [email protected]
Subject: Passing Away Of My Son Michael
Friends & Associates,Many of you may have already heard about the passing of my son, Michael, this past weekend as the result of substance abuse related issues. As much as I have tried these many years, I could not help Mike escape the grip of his drugs of choice. And now I am faced with a void in my life that will be impossible to replace.Substance abuse is a horrid disease, a plague on our society. In 2004 I realized that my son had this problem and looked for a constructive way to channel my energies from worrying about my son. I formed a non-profit called Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (STICC) to help disadvantaged families with their children.
This is when TheWho's research into teen programming really began. He trolled Fornits as a way to avoid "worrying about (his) son." Somehow I doubt all of this trolling will bring any kind of resolution for TheWho.
Anyway, this is the timeline for TheWho's arrival on Fornits, which became full-blown incessant, vapid trolling soon thereafter, culminating in directly attacking a kid who was abused at HLA, a favorite program of his key associate, Martha Kolbe, who continues to refer children to the abusive teen shitpit to this day.
Personally, I wouldn't be seeking help from a man with no conscience or morals, like John. Reading his posts here make me cringe and some make me feel sick to my stomach from the rationalization of hurting kids to 'help' them.
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Ha,Ha,Ha (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
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From: John Reuben [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:16 PMTo: [email protected]
Subject: Passing Away Of My Son Michael
Friends & Associates,Many of you may have already heard about the passing of my son, Michael, this past weekend as the result of substance abuse related issues. As much as I have tried these many years, I could not help Mike escape the grip of his drugs of choice. And now I am faced with a void in my life that will be impossible to replace.Substance abuse is a horrid disease, a plague on our society. In 2004 I realized that my son had this problem and looked for a constructive way to channel my energies from worrying about my son. I formed a non-profit called Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (STICC) to help disadvantaged families with their children.
This is when TheWho's research into teen programming really began. He trolled Fornits as a way to avoid "worrying about (his) son." Somehow I doubt all of this trolling will bring any kind of resolution for TheWho.
Anyway, this is the timeline for TheWho's arrival on Fornits, which became full-blown incessant, vapid trolling soon thereafter, culminating in directly attacking a kid who was abused at HLA, a favorite program of his key associate, Martha Kolbe, who continues to refer children to the abusive teen shitpit to this day.
Personally, I wouldn't be seeking help from a man with no conscience or morals, like John. Reading his posts here make me cringe and some make me feel sick to my stomach from the rationalization of hurting kids to 'help' them.
Apparently, TheWho thinks this child's sad death is funny. I don't. Please don't degrade his memory with childish link-spamming.
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From: John Reuben [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 10:16 PMTo: [email protected]
Subject: Passing Away Of My Son Michael
Friends & Associates,Many of you may have already heard about the passing of my son, Michael, this past weekend as the result of substance abuse related issues. As much as I have tried these many years, I could not help Mike escape the grip of his drugs of choice. And now I am faced with a void in my life that will be impossible to replace.Substance abuse is a horrid disease, a plague on our society. In 2004 I realized that my son had this problem and looked for a constructive way to channel my energies from worrying about my son. I formed a non-profit called Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (STICC) to help disadvantaged families with their children.
This is when TheWho's research into teen programming really began. He trolled Fornits as a way to avoid "worrying about (his) son." Somehow I doubt all of this trolling will bring any kind of resolution for TheWho.
Anyway, this is the timeline for TheWho's arrival on Fornits, which became full-blown incessant, vapid trolling soon thereafter, culminating in directly attacking a kid who was abused at HLA, a favorite program of his key associate, Martha Kolbe, who continues to refer children to the abusive teen shitpit to this day.
Personally, I wouldn't be seeking help from a man with no conscience or morals, like John. Reading his posts here make me cringe and some make me feel sick to my stomach from the rationalization of hurting kids to 'help' them.
Apparently, TheWho (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) thinks this child's sad death is funny. I don't. Please don't degrade his memory (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) with childish link-spamming.
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Try not to get upset on what is being said so much. Lets just try to maximize the number of hits on Dave Marcus' (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) blog. You wouldn’t believe how this has increased (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) over the past 2 days.
Lets all try to keep this thread at the top (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) (or at least top 10). If you don’t have anything to add just type Bump (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book).
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic:
Whooter (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
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The depths of your callousness and deflection never cease to amaze me. I hope that this shit is so tagged that anyone looking up this cold, opportunistic asshole sees him for what he is. A calculating businessman willing to exploit his own sons death to his financial advantage. How much lower can you go?
I don't think the question was ever answered as to whether or not this kid was allowed to attend his mother's funeral. Was he? What is the status of the other kid?
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The depths of your callousness and deflection never cease to amaze (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) me. I hope that this shit is so tagged that anyone looking up this cold, opportunistic asshole sees him for what he is. A calculating (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) businessman willing to exploit his own sons death to his financial advantage. How much lower can you go?
I don't think the question was ever answered as to whether or not this Kid (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) was allowed to attend his mother's funeral. Was he? What is the status of the other kid?
Its great that we are working together on this. You want to keep it tagged so that people will see his name on the Google search and enter this thread. You may even get Rueben himself to visit fornits which would be interesting.
But I have recently found that the top threads under the “new posts” button get an incredible number of first time hits so I will be tagging your posts with the links back to DaveMarcus.com. This will not interfere (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) with your quest and will in fact help move this thread further up the Google chain (win,win), you help me I'll help you. Lets try to keep this in the top 10 and I'll count the hits I get on the other end against how high it is on the "New Post" list.
As far as the kid attending the funeral a friend mentioned that he did attend. It was in the HLA forum I believe.
http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
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What does Dave Marcus have to do with John Reuben's son killing himself after attending ASR? I believe he was there at the same time as Marcus. That makes two kids during Marcus' stay at ASR that ended up killing themselves. I wonder how many more of that ASR class are dead?
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What does Dave Marcus (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) have to do with John Reuben's son killing himself after attending ASR? I believe he was there at the same time as Marcus. That makes two kids during Marcus' stay at ASR that ended up killing themselves. I wonder how many more of that ASR class are dead?
I think Dave Marcus (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) might have had something to do with it (you are pretty smart). Maybe all the kids died after leaving ASR. I think if they all died we could safely assume it was the programs fault, Wouldnt have to wait for a long term study, peer reviewed, clinical and independently conducted over a period of 10 years to satisfy our requirements.
I think this Dave Marcus thing is the tie in we have been looking for.
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I'm not looking for a 'tie in' of any sort. The Marcus book has been discussed in detail for years here and everyone agrees it's a shill piece bought and paid for by Aspen Education which now hires Marcus to do lectures and facilitate groups of some sort.
What's clear is that Marcus is paid by Aspen and that all of the kids he followed failed, with one ending up dead. Marcus I guess is the 'tie in' to Aspen's abject failure rate, 100% in the case of the kids Marcus watched.
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I'm not looking for a 'tie in' of any sort. The Marcus (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)book has been discussed in detail for years here and everyone agrees it's a shill piece bought and paid for by Aspen Education which now hires Marcus to do lectures and facilitate groups of some sort.
What's clear is that Marcus is paid by Aspen and that all of the kids he followed failed, with one ending up dead. Marcus I guess is the 'tie in' to Aspen's abject failure rate, 100% in the case of the kids Marcus watched.
Exactly, that is why it is important for people to read the Book (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)!! To get a first hand account of what it is like inside these evil places. If we can get people to just read it then that would be getting the word out.
Then they can google his name and find out how he is tied in with Aspen (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)... its all great stuff!!
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I wonder how Marcus feels now after learning that all four of "his kids" at ASR failed with one ending up dead? Even though it's a small sample, it tells us that ASR has a 100% failure rate and a 25% death rate. I think a bigger. less biased sample would make these numbers go even higher (Marcus' subjects were hand-picked by Aspen based on the probablility odf success). Funny how they picked their sample to prove effectiveness and it proves the exact opposite. Too bad nobody is allowed to do a clinical trial on ASR. If it were allowed, there would be no more denying Aspen's utter failure to help any kids.
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I wonder how Dave Marcus (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) feels now after learning that all four of "his kids" at ASR (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) failed with one ending up dead? Even though it's a small sample, it tells us that ASR (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) has a 100% failure rate and a 25% death rate. I think a bigger. less biased sample would make these numbers go even higher (Marcus' (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) subjects were hand-picked by Aspen based on the probablility odf success). Funny how they picked their sample to prove effectiveness and it proves the exact opposite. Too bad nobody is allowed to do a clinical trial on ASR. If it were allowed, there would be no more denying Aspen's utter failure to help any kids.
These are very good points. I think this is why the book has been so successful. Everyone (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) likes to read about scandal and the next program to be exposed. Thebook was heart churning and I couldnt put it down. I dont know how any of the kids survived? I guess that is why they call them survivors.
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At what point does this asshole's flogging of his butt buddy's book become commercial spam/flooding?
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I wonder how Dave Marcus (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) feels now after learning that all four of "his kids" at ASR (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) failed with one ending up dead? Even though it's a small sample, it tells us that ASR (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) has a 100% failure rate and a 25% death rate. I think a bigger. less biased sample would make these numbers go even higher (Marcus' (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) subjects were hand-picked by Aspen based on the probablility odf success). Funny how they picked their sample to prove effectiveness and it proves the exact opposite. Too bad nobody is allowed to do a clinical trial on ASR. If it were allowed, there would be no more denying Aspen's utter failure to help any kids.
These are very good points. I think this is why the book has been so successful. Everyone (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) likes to read about scandal and the next program to be exposed. Thebook was heart churning and I couldnt put it down. I dont know how any of the kids survived? I guess that is why they call them survivors.
Any book to be successful has to have at least one death in it. So I would say that the death aspect of it is what makes it a good book. I was going nuts trying to figure out which one of them died. I couldnt put it down ... was it the "Southern girl"' or "the self-destructive son of teachers" or "the black kid from a tough New York neighborhood" or "the high-achieving Florida girl "broken" by the death of her mother". I wont tell you which one but it definitely fooled me.
You can catch the book here:
Dave Marcus (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
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I wonder how Marcus feels now after learning that all four of "his kids" at ASR failed with one ending up dead? Even though it's a small sample, it tells us that ASR has a 100% failure rate and a 25% death rate. I think a bigger. less biased sample would make these numbers go even higher (Marcus' subjects were hand-picked by Aspen based on the probablility odf success). Funny how they picked their sample to prove effectiveness and it proves the exact opposite. Too bad nobody is allowed to do a clinical trial on ASR. If it were allowed, there would be no more denying Aspen's utter failure to help any kids.
I agree wholeheartedly. This industry survives on anecdotes of "success" but they really don't deliver any quantifiable results. They practice pseudo-therapy and publish quasi-scientific "research" which consists of surveys of cherry-picked samples to claim "success." In reality, they offer no proof, or even any quantifiable evidence, that programs do any good for any person. Great post.
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I wonder how Dave Marcus (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) feels now after learning that all four of "his kids" at ASR (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) failed with one ending up dead? Even though it's a small sample, it tells us that ASR (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) has a 100% failure rate and a 25% death rate. I think a bigger. less biased sample would make these numbers go even higher (Marcus' (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) subjects were hand-picked by Aspen based on the probablility odf success). Funny how they picked their sample to prove effectiveness and it proves the exact opposite. Too bad nobody is allowed to do a clinical trial on ASR. If it were allowed, there would be no more denying Aspen's utter failure to help any kids.
These are very good points. I think this is why the book has been so successful. Everyone (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) likes to read about scandal and the next program to be exposed. Thebook was heart churning and I couldnt put it down. I dont know how any of the kids survived? I guess that is why they call them survivors.
Any book to be successful has to have at least one death in it. So I would say that the death aspect of it is what makes it a good book. I was going nuts trying to figure out which one of them died. I couldnt put it down ... was it the "Southern girl"' or "the self-destructive son of teachers" or "the black kid from a tough New York neighborhood" or "the high-achieving Florida girl "broken" by the death of her mother". I wont tell you which one but it definitely fooled me.
You can catch the book here:
Dave Marcus (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
I have to admit that the book (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) was a page turner. I gave it to a friend and they couldnt put it down either. I thought it was the "Girl from Florida". My friend thought it was the "Black kid from New York".
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You couldn't wait to find out which kid dies? That's sick.Truly, deeply, sick.
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I wonder how Marcus feels now after learning that all four of "his kids" at ASR failed with one ending up dead? Even though it's a small sample, it tells us that ASR has a 100% failure rate and a 25% death rate. I think a bigger. less biased sample would make these numbers go even higher (Marcus' subjects were hand-picked by Aspen based on the probablility odf success). Funny how they picked their sample to prove effectiveness and it proves the exact opposite. Too bad nobody is allowed to do a clinical trial on ASR. If it were allowed, there would be no more denying Aspen's utter failure to help any kids.
I agree wholeheartedly. This industry survives on anecdotes of "success" but they really don't deliver any quantifiable results. They practice pseudo-therapy and publish quasi-scientific "research" which consists of surveys of cherry-picked samples to claim "success." In reality, they offer no proof, or even any quantifiable evidence, that programs do any good for any person. Great post.
Well, I certainly see your point. Why is it that after 30 or more years of this industry that there has never been a clinical trial? Obviously, if the industry players thought it would help their claims, it would have been done long ago. Since they know it will undermine their business, they don't allow it.
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Funny thing, I read Dave Marcus's book and noticed that the student who died was not part of the four featured in his book. There was a student from that group who did die but not one of the four. It amazes me how you all talk thoughtfully about a book which most of you have never read or even held in your hands. And it is general knowledge that ASR does not even use the program mentioned in that book. And no, I do not work for ASR though I am in the field.
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Funny thing, I read Dave Marcus's book and noticed that the student who died was not part of the four featured in his book. There was a student from that group who did die but not one of the four. It amazes me how you all talk thoughtfully about a book which most of you have never read or even held in your hands. And it is general knowledge that ASR does not even use the program mentioned in that book. And no, I do not work for ASR though I am in the field.
One of the book's subjects did indeed die. After the book was written, but dead nonetheless. And you're saying another kid died also? So 2 kids from "peer group 2" died then? How many in the peer group? 10? So, 20% of the kids at ASR at the time ended up dead? SCARY.
So, if ASR doesn't use the program in the book, the author was making it all up? Lying?
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I wonder how Marcus feels now after learning that all four of "his kids" at ASR failed with one ending up dead? Even though it's a small sample, it tells us that ASR has a 100% failure rate and a 25% death rate. I think a bigger. less biased sample would make these numbers go even higher (Marcus' subjects were hand-picked by Aspen based on the probablility odf success). Funny how they picked their sample to prove effectiveness and it proves the exact opposite. Too bad nobody is allowed to do a clinical trial on ASR. If it were allowed, there would be no more denying Aspen's utter failure to help any kids.
I agree wholeheartedly. This industry survives on anecdotes of "success" but they really don't deliver any quantifiable results. They practice pseudo-therapy and publish quasi-scientific "research" which consists of surveys of cherry-picked samples to claim "success." In reality, they offer no proof, or even any quantifiable evidence, that programs do any good for any person. Great post.
Well, I certainly see your point. Why is it that after 30 or more years of this industry that there has never been a clinical trial? Obviously, if the industry players thought it would help their claims, it would have been done long ago. Since they know it will undermine their business, they don't allow it.
If there were a need it would have been done. But the industry expanded by an order of magnitude over the past decades. Why would anyone want to spend money on clinical trials?
Would you call DSS to come over to your house to inspect how you are raising your kids? Would you want them to perform a clinical trial to see if you are doing a successful job? Not punishing too much or too little? I dont think so. There are over 500 programs today... with only a 100 graduating each year thats 50,000 kids a year coming out of programs.
How many do you think dont do well? The success rate is dam near six sigma 99.99995%.
If the business is doing well and thousands of kids are getting the help they need every year why muck it all up?
Think about it from a business perspective? Most people wouldnt toss money after a clinical trial to prove what they already know works well.
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g
John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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Funny thing, I read Dave Marcus's book and noticed that the student who died was not part of the four featured in his book. There was a student from that group who did die but not one of the four. It amazes me how you all talk thoughtfully about a book which most of you have never read or even held in your hands. And it is general knowledge that ASR does not even use the program mentioned in that book. And no, I do not work for ASR though I am in the field.
One of the book's subjects did indeed die. After the book was written, but dead nonetheless. And you're saying another kid died also? So 2 kids from "peer group 2" died then? How many in the peer group? 10? So, 20% of the kids at ASR at the time ended up dead? SCARY.
So, if ASR doesn't use the program in the book, the author was making it all up? Lying?
Funny. Now that the Marcus book proves to be an embarrassment to the ASR (100% failure rate and 25% death rate) the trolls pivot to "ASR doesn't even use the program in the book. Marcus is a liar!"
If my success rate were 0%, I'd try to distance myself from it, too.
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Funny thing, I read Dave Marcus's book and noticed that the student who died was not part of the four featured in his book. There was a student from that group who did die but not one of the four. It amazes me how you all talk thoughtfully about a book which most of you have never read or even held in your hands. And it is general knowledge that ASR does not even use the program mentioned in that book. And no, I do not work for ASR though I am in the field.
One of the book's subjects did indeed die. After the book was written, but dead nonetheless. And you're saying another kid died also? So 2 kids from "peer group 2" died then? How many in the peer group? 10? So, 20% of the kids at ASR at the time ended up dead? SCARY.
So, if ASR doesn't use the program in the book, the author was making it all up? Lying?
Funny. Now that the Dave Marcus (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) book proves to be an embarrassment to the ASR (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) (100% failure rate and 25% death rate) the trolls pivot to "ASR doesn't even use the program in the book. Dave Marcus (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) is a liar!"
If my success rate (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) were 0%, I'd try to distance myself from it, too.
Great stuff, Check out the book and see for yourself. Do the kids die? or do they move on to happier times? This book will walk you thru the world of programs and you'll get an inside look. Are we all living a lie? The book has the answers (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book).
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book). Your dad let you down, but your friends love you (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) to this topic:
Here. (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
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Ha,Ha,Ha (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
Lets keep it going!!! Talk more about "Death" and I will supply the links.
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Have at it asshole. All you're doing is providing proof of what we've been saying all along. You're a sick fuck who is cashing in on his own son's death. A death that you greatly contributed to. You don't get any lower than that.
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Have at it asshole. All you're doing is Providing proof (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) of what we've been saying all along (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book). You're a sick fuck who is cashing in on his own son's death (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book). A Death (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) that you greatly contributed to. You don't get any lower (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) than that.
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Have at it asshole. All you're doing is Providing proof (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) of what we've been saying all along (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book). You're a sick fuck who is cashing in on his own son's death (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book). A Death (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) that you greatly contributed to. You don't get any lower (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) than that.
Look calm down. By keeping this at the top you get what you want which is to move it up on the google search which may attract this Rueben guy here or get prospective parents to read it.
My agenda is different. I will just add links to your posts. This way I dont have to think up something to say everytime and I wont be interfering in the other threads. This is a win/win for both of us
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My agenda is different.
Yeah, no shit. Your agenda is to push programs. Mine is to try and help kids.
I will just add links to your posts. This way I dont have to think up something to say everytime and I wont be interfering in the other threads.
Of course you will. Because you're a cold, soulless freak who profits off of kids' pain and death. How proud you must be!
This is a win/win for both of us
Too bad it's the kids who lose.
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Yeah, no shit. Your agenda is to push programs (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book). Mine is to try and help kids
Apparently you haven’t been reading the links (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) like so many others have. See the book (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) doesn’t push programs and neither do I. If you took time to educate yourself you would see I am the one helping kids.
Of course you will. Because you're a cold, soulless freak who profits off of kids' pain and death. How proud you must be!
Hmmm.... Not sure what that means.
Too bad it's the kids who lose.
This where we both agree and is the reason I am here. Unlike you I am interested in getting kids the help they need (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) (you could care less about them). You seem to be angry at programs (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)and industries. Try thinking of someone besides yourself, it may help you feel better.
Just stay focused on keeping this thread at the top (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book). I will handle the rest.
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Funny thing, I read Dave Marcus's book and noticed that the student who died was not part of the four featured in his book. There was a student from that group who did die but not one of the four. It amazes me how you all talk thoughtfully about a book which most of you have never read or even held in your hands. And it is general knowledge that ASR does not even use the program mentioned in that book. And no, I do not work for ASR though I am in the field.
One of the book's subjects did indeed die. After the book was written, but dead nonetheless. And you're saying another kid died also? So 2 kids from "peer group 2" died then? How many in the peer group? 10? So, 20% of the kids at ASR at the time ended up dead? SCARY.
So, if ASR doesn't use the program in the book, the author was making it all up? Lying?
Funny. Now that the Marcus book proves to be an embarrassment to the ASR (100% failure rate and 25% death rate) the trolls pivot to "ASR doesn't even use the program in the book. Marcus is a liar!"
If my success rate were 0%, I'd try to distance myself from it, too.
This is a great point. This book has been held out as "proof" programs work, but now someone who currently works in the industry is claiming the Marcus book is actually full of lies; that ASR doesn't even use the program described in the book. So who's lying? Is it ASR? Is it Marcus? They can't both be true stories.
Either way, ASR has a lot of dead kids associated with it. They die at arate of 25%. This is an unacceptable risk especially since Aspen has admitted they don't even provide treatment. So you're taking a 25% chance your kid will die at Aspen while knowing with surety there's a 100% chance of you kid getting no treatment.
Aspen is lose-lose for the parents and the kids.
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Funny thing, I read Dave Marcus's book and noticed that the student who died was not part of the four featured in his book. There was a student from that group who did die but not one of the four. It amazes me how you all talk thoughtfully about a book which most of you have never read or even held in your hands. And it is general knowledge that ASR does not even use the program mentioned in that book. And no, I do not work for ASR though I am in the field.
One of the book's subjects did indeed die. After the book was written, but dead nonetheless. And you're saying another kid died also? So 2 kids from "peer group 2" died then? How many in the peer group? 10? So, 20% of the kids at ASR at the time ended up dead? SCARY.
So, if ASR doesn't use the program in the book, the author was making it all up? Lying?
Funny. Now that the Dave Marcus (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) book proves to be an embarrassment to the ASR (100% failure rate and 25% death rate) the trolls pivot to "ASR doesn't even use the program in the book. Marcus is a liar!"
If my success rate were 0%, I'd try to distance myself from it, too.
This is a great point. This book (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) has been held out as "proof" programs work, but now someone who currently works in the industry is claiming the Marcus book is actually full of lies; that ASR doesn't even use the program described in the book. So who's lying? Is it ASR (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)? Is it Dave Marcus (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)? Is it fornits (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) posters?They can't all be true stories.
Either way, ASR (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) has a lot of dead kids associated with it. They die at arate of 25%. This is an unacceptable risk especially since Aspen has admitted they don't even provide treatment. So you're taking a 25% chance your kid will die at Aspen (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) while knowing with surety there's a 100% chance of you kid getting no treatment.
Aspen is lose-lose for the parents and the kids.
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Christ!!! With how much time you spend altering everyone's posts, you've GOT to be getting paid by Aspen or Reuben. Do you have a job or is this it?? Do you sit there all fucking day, watching and waiting for a post to pop up so you can fuck with it?
Classic program tactics. As I said, have at it asshole. Keep proving our point.
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Christ!!! With how much time you spend altering everyone's posts, you've GOT to be getting paid by Aspen (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) or Reuben (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book). Do you have a job or is this it?? Do you sit there all fucking day, watching and waiting for a post (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) to pop up so you can fuck with it?
Classic program tactics. As I said, have at it asshole. Keep proving our point. Keep posting.
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Christ!!! With how much time you spend altering everyone's posts, you've GOT to be getting paid by Aspen (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) or Reuben (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book). Do you have a job or is this it?? Do you sit there all fucking day, watching and waiting for a post (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) to pop up so you can fuck with it?
Classic program tactics. As I said, have at it asshole. Keep proving our point. Keep posting.
Dont get upset. Your message is still getting out. That is the important (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) thing.
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This is part of It's obsession, folks. It needs to needle. It needs to make others feel bad so It can feel good. If It wants to spend It's days and nights posting obsessively, let It. Keep posting your thoughts, opinions and references. If It wants to spend all of It's time editing your posts to insert It's links, that's It's business. In my experience, you can keep It busy through It's own compulsion to get the last word. Keep It up all night replying. Keep it busy doing It's stupid little project. It gets no results from It's efforts, so why bother trying to curtail It's actions? The longer It's tied up here doing useless busywork the less It's available to weigh in in other threads. Remember, you are controlling It's behavior. You are making It do the things It does. It has no control and you have all the control. Keep up the good work! Force It to continue your busywork.
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This is part of It's obsession, folks. It needs to needle (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book). It needs to make others feel bad so It can feel good. If It wants to spend It's days and nights posting obsessively, let It. Keep posting (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) your thoughts, opinions and references. If It wants to spend all of It's time editing your posts to insert It's links, that's It's business. In my experience, you can keep It busy through It's own compulsion to get the last word. Keep It up all night replying. Keep it busy doing It's stupid little project. It gets no results from It's efforts, so why bother trying to curtail It's actions? The longer It's tied up here doing useless busywork the less It's available to weigh in in other threads. remember (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book), you are controlling It's behavior. You are making It do the things It does. It has no control and you have all the control. Keep up the good work! Force It to continue your busywork (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book).
Good Point!! (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
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This is part of It's obsession, folks. It needs to needle. It needs to make others feel bad so It can feel good. If It wants to spend It's days and nights posting obsessively, let It. Keep posting your thoughts, opinions and references. If It wants to spend all of It's time editing your posts to insert It's links, that's It's business. In my experience, you can keep It busy through It's own compulsion to get the last word. Keep It up all night replying. Keep it busy doing It's stupid little project. It gets no results from It's efforts, so why bother trying to curtail It's actions? The longer It's tied up here doing useless busywork the less It's available to weigh in in other threads. Remember, you are controlling It's behavior. You are making It do the things It does. It has no control and you have all the control. Keep up the good work! Force It to continue your busywork.
Yes, I thought this was a good point as well when I wrote it.
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This is nothing more than a father who has an incredible amount of guilt for what he did to his kid and is now scrambling to convince himself that what he did was right.
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This is nothing more than a father who has an incredible amount of guilt for what he did to his kid and is now scrambling to convince himself that what he did was right.
Oh, I disagree. This is a person who views people, even his own son, as commodities or as a means to an end. He's a bit of a sociopath who objectifies people and treats them as "product." He views his son's death as a means to an end: MONEY. If he can profit from his own child's death, he'll do it. If he can convince others to send their kids to the same fate as his in order to make money, he'll do it.
This is a deeply disturbed person, not a guilt-ridden one.
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It's sad, but true. DJ is right on about this.
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This is nothing more than a father who has an incredible amount of guilt for what he did to his kid and is now scrambling to convince himself that what he did was right.
Oh, I disagree. This is a person who views people, even his own son, as commodities or as a means to an end. He's a bit of a sociopath who objectifies people and treats them as "product." He views his son's death as a means to an end:MONEY (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book). If he can profit from his own child's death, he'll do it. If he can convince others to send their kids to the same fate as his in order to make money, he'll do it.
This is a deeply disturbed person, not a guilt-ridden one.
Actually you are all wrong. All my kids are doing fine, but it is fun watching you run in circles... who am I today? Alan Newman? John Reuben? Peter ? So many I cant remember. Sociopath says the so called mental health professional.. which speaks volumes. I remember the same crowd calling foul when professionals would place kids into programs without meeting them and diagnosing them over the phone.
I think we can agree that if I can help a child attain the same fate as my children then we are all doing good. So even through all of this there is some consensus.
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Lols. Whooter, you're a lousy parent and a lousy human being. You can't clean that up!
Whover you may or may not be, your obsession here is on display for all to see.
Don't take my word for it, just read the thread entitled "TheWho" and you will see for yourself how disturbed this person is. He's here day and night, day after day posting, posting, posting, but never exhibiting any substance, just trolling.
I can't imagine how you have any time for a family or kids when you're here up to 16 hours each day. Maybe you have imaginary children spawned from your dozens of imaginary identities? Hell if I know. I don't care either.
All that's important to me is that any reader with a modicum of interest can clearly see you are a huge liar with an agenda to fill beds at programs.
I can see how frustrated you are by having your ass handed to you yet again in debate, so you skulk here and announce "My kids are great! You'll be lucky to have great kids like mine!" trying to puff up your deflated ego. But nobody's buying it, so why bother. Get a hobby, champ.
Or maybe if you're such a tough guy, I'll box you (or kickbox or MMA, you choose) for charity. If I win, all money goes to anti-program activists. If you win, it all goes to STICC. What do you say? Let's rock and roll. I'll enjoy bashing your face in for a good cause!
[EDIT: I have to run, so I can't stick around for the excuses, but I'll predict Whooter will pansy out of a charity slugfest, because he's a weak, chickenshit, powerless little internet troll and will instead try to spin this as me threatening him with violence.]
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Or maybe if you're such a tough guy, I'll box you (or kickbox or MMA, you choose) for charity. If I win, all money goes to anti-program activists. If you win, it all goes to STICC. What do you say? Let's rock and roll. I'll enjoy bashing your face in for a good cause!
Sorry you are so frustrated, DJ, but when you are wrong your wrong. I do get enjoyment at your expense and I am surprised that a mental health professional cant resolve conflict in a better venue than bashing someone’s face in. Maybe a debating course may help you to hone your communication skills, DJ, or a different profession.
Try to not take life so seriously and focus on getting these kids some help instead of protecting your ego. Who cares if you win an argument or not? Try to put energy onto helping the kids you claim are being damaged by these programs.
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First off I’d like to say you post a good argument and if you are the same poster on the other threads I agree with you mostly. But I would like to say that I have been reading here awhile and know for a fact that Dysfunction Junction is a good guy at heart. He just gets out of hand sometimes when he loses an argument. He worked in a program years ago and believes them to be abusive but isn’t articulate enough to express what he is feeling so he resorts to violence and name calling when he loses an argument. I saw the post where he wanted to punch you out, but again this is a result of his frustration in lack of communication skills. He has gained credibility here by telling everyone that he is a mental health professional but we all know that professionals in this field don’t resolve their differences through violence and name calling.
Give the guy some space and understand that he is frustrated and angry towards the industry.
He is not a bad guy and is just looking for people to understand what he went thru.
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Well, RobertBruce was indeed right about Whooter. He's a coward.
He has a chance to earn some money for a charitable cause, but he's too afraid of big, bad, DJ (a bookworm) to have a fight in the ring for charity. Whooter is simply a message board bully and a real-life coward. It's not like anyone would really get hurt and it's for a good cause, but, alas, Whooter is too afraid to step up.
It tells al ot about his character. This is why his kids had to go to programs. Whooter couldn't man up and be a good parent. He chose the easy way out.
When it comes time to put up or shut up, he runs away. Why not put your money where your mouth is so DJ can put his fist in your money, little coward?
I think we all knew this is how Whooter would handle confrontation. Ha, Ha, Ha.
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Well, RobertBruce was indeed right about Whooter. He's a coward (sting!!).
He has a chance to earn some money for a charitable cause, but he's too afraid of big, bad, DJ (a bookworm) to have a fight in the ring for charity. Whooter is simply a message board bully and a real-life coward (Sting. Sting!!)!!). It's not like anyone would really get hurt and it's for a good cause, but, alas, Whooter is too afraid to step up.
It tells al ot about his character. This is why his kids had to go to programs. Whooter couldn't man up and be a good parent. He chose the easy way out.
When it comes time to put up or shut up, he runs away. Why not put your money where your mouth is so DJ can put his fist in your money, little coward(Sting!!,Sting!!,Sting!!)?
I think we all knew this is how Whooter would handle confrontation. Ha, Ha, Ha.
RB, you came came up for air finally..... Ha,Ha,Ha Kind of stings for ya? Bring back memories Sting,Sting!! You have been chompin at the bit to use the word, but it comes with a price (sting!!, Sting!!)
Sorry, RB, Couldnt resist ..... dont take it personally.
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First off I’d like to say you post a good argument and if you are the same poster on the other threads I agree with you mostly. But I would like to say that I have been reading here awhile and know for a fact that Dysfunction Junction is a good guy at heart. He just gets out of hand sometimes when he loses an argument. He worked in a program years ago and believes them to be abusive but isn’t articulate enough to express what he is feeling so he resorts to violence and name calling when he loses an argument. I saw the post where he wanted to punch you out, but again this is a result of his frustration in lack of communication skills. He has gained credibility here by telling everyone that he is a mental health professional but we all know that professionals in this field don’t resolve their differences through violence and name calling.
Give the guy some space and understand that he is frustrated and angry towards the industry.
He is not a bad guy and is just looking for people to understand what he went thru.
Thank you Peg, I think you nailed him, although, I dont think he is a mental health professional as you stated. He may work in the field but not in a professional capacity which is obvious by the way he handles conflict and communicates. He is just upset because no one wants to meet him in California, the job market is down, most people disagree with him and HLA is coming back under a new name. So, I agree with you that we all need to give him some space to vent and he then he will go back to his job search soon enough.
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Well, RobertBruce was indeed right about Whooter. He's a coward.
He has a chance to earn some money for a charitable cause, but he's too afraid of big, bad, DJ (a bookworm) to have a fight in the ring for charity. Whooter is simply a message board bully and a real-life coward. It's not like anyone would really get hurt and it's for a good cause, but, alas, Whooter is too afraid to step up.
It tells al ot about his character. This is why his kids had to go to programs. Whooter couldn't man up and be a good parent. He chose the easy way out.
When it comes time to put up or shut up, he runs away. Why not put your money where your mouth is so DJ can put his fist in your money, little coward?
I think we all knew this is how Whooter would handle confrontation. Ha, Ha, Ha.
Funny. This is true. It was even said prior to proposing a charity boxing match that Whooter would tuck tail and squeal he's been threatened with violence :waaaa: . He did.
Personally, I think Whooter has such big issues with DJ because DJ is all of the things Whooter will never be - highly educated, honest, hard-working, self-made, a great dad and built like an Adonis. Since Whooter has been owned by DJ for years, his natural reaction is to run away and try to attack from the shadows with many of his phony identities to try to make it seem like he's not irrelevent, but he is. He had a chance to be relevent, to help kids and raise money for a good cause, but he was too chicken to help the kids. Par for the course with this extreme coward. Whooter is just staying the course that was laid for him. He's a trust fund baby whose mommy and daddy made every decision for him right up until they passed away and that's when Whooter really fell off the tracks. Faced with the reality of having to do things for himself and raise his kids without grandma and grandpa, he failed miserably and his kids ended up in two of the most notoriously abusive kiddie jails, ASR and HLA. He continues to be a petty, bitter little weakling here and in the real world. It's a sad life, but he's too weak to change. If he can somehow grow a set of balls I bet DJ would still have the charity event, but I doubt Whooter will ever have any balls. :rofl:
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And, by the way, my name is spelled "Pegg" with two "g's" so please stop trying to hijack my identity and put your words in my mouth, Whooter. For the record, it was Whooter posing as me in the past few posts and I did not say those things. It's just another example of how cowardly he is when he can't use his won name but tries to steal other people's identities. I support the idea that Whooter and DJ settle things in the ring, like men, to raise money for the kids, but I think Whooter is really genuinely afraid of it.
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First off I’d like to say you post a good argument and if you are the same poster on the other threads I agree with you mostly. But I would like to say that I have been reading here awhile and know for a fact that Dysfunction Junction is a good guy at heart. He just gets out of hand sometimes when he loses an argument. He worked in a program years ago and believes them to be abusive but isn’t articulate enough to express what he is feeling so he resorts to violence and name calling when he loses an argument. I saw the post where he wanted to punch you out, but again this is a result of his frustration in lack of communication skills. He has gained credibility here by telling everyone that he is a mental health professional but we all know that professionals in this field don’t resolve their differences through violence and name calling.
Give the guy some space and understand that he is frustrated and angry towards the industry.
He is not a bad guy and is just looking for people to understand what he went thru.
Thank you Peg, I think you nailed him, although, I dont think he is a mental health professional as you stated. He may work in the field but not in a professional capacity which is obvious by the way he handles conflict and communicates. He is just upset because no one wants to meet him in California, the job market is down, most people disagree with him and HLA is coming back under a new name. So, I agree with you that we all need to give him some space to vent and he then he will go back to his job search soon enough.
A friend of my son was this way. He always wanted to settle an argument by hitting people and this carried over into his adult life. To this day he cannot handle it when he is proven wrong or when people disagree with him. Violence is just ingrained in some people. Like I said I dont think this Dysfunction Junction is a bad guy he just doesnt know what to do with his anger or how to properly direct it. It is good to see people like you on here who can keep their cool.
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First off I’d like to say you post a good argument and if you are the same poster on the other threads I agree with you mostly. But I would like to say that I have been reading here awhile and know for a fact that Dysfunction Junction is a good guy at heart. He just gets out of hand sometimes when he loses an argument. He worked in a program years ago and believes them to be abusive but isn’t articulate enough to express what he is feeling so he resorts to violence and name calling when he loses an argument. I saw the post where he wanted to punch you out, but again this is a result of his frustration in lack of communication skills. He has gained credibility here by telling everyone that he is a mental health professional but we all know that professionals in this field don’t resolve their differences through violence and name calling.
Give the guy some space and understand that he is frustrated and angry towards the industry.
He is not a bad guy and is just looking for people to understand what he went thru.
Thank you Peg, I think you nailed him, although, I dont think he is a mental health professional as you stated. He may work in the field but not in a professional capacity which is obvious by the way he handles conflict and communicates. He is just upset because no one wants to meet him in California, the job market is down, most people disagree with him and HLA is coming back under a new name. So, I agree with you that we all need to give him some space to vent and he then he will go back to his job search soon enough.
A friend of my son (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) was this way. He always wanted to settle an argument by hitting people and this carried over into his adult (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) life. To this day he cannot handle it when he is proven wrong or when people disagree with him. Violence is just ingrained in some people. Like I said I dont think this Dysfunction Junction (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) is a bad guy he just doesnt know what to do with his anger (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) or how to properly direct it. It is good to see people like you on here who can keep their cool.
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Awww...Whooter is too afwaid of big bad DJ the bookworm to raise money for STICC.
Sorta fits his moniker of "coward" huh? Big and tough on message board but tucks tail and slinks away from real confrontation, even to raise money for the kids he claims to want to help. He'll help as long as he doesn't actually have to DO anything. True colors revealed again. Whooter is a fwaidy-cat!
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Awww...Whooter is too afwaid of big bad DJ the bookworm to raise money for STICC.
Sorta fits his moniker of "coward" huh? Big and tough on message board but tucks tail and slinks away from real confrontation, even to raise money for the kids he claims to want to help. He'll help as long as he doesn't actually have to DO anything. True colors revealed again. Whooter is a fwaidy-cat!
Probably afraid some of the kids he gave the STICC to will be there, looking to return some "charity".
You have to understand Reuben. He was sent to military academy as a kid and thinks the best way to raise a teen is to send them away, it's family tradition. Look what the family tradition has done to Reuben, and he still keeps telling himself it is a good thing. Loser.
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Yeah, I think we all knew in advance that when the rubber hit the road Whooter would punk out. I'm still up for a charity boxing match though and have gym space on reserve and a state licensed referee and physician (required by law to have a fight) ready to go if he decides to man up for the first time in his life.
I'm actually nursing a broken left hand currently from a recent kickboxing bout, but I'd be willing to fight one-handed to get this match going.
"The Bookworm vs. The Joggernaut" can only happen if Whooter finds a way to overcome his cowardice (shout out to RobertBruce for nailing that on the head repeatedly).
Well, you know where to find me, weakling, if you grow some stones and really want to help some kids.
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Yeah, I think we all knew in advance that when the rubber hit the road Whooter would punk out. I'm still up for a charity boxing match though and have gym space on reserve and a state licensed referee and physician (required by law to have a fight) ready to go if he decides to man up for the first time in his life.
I'm actually nursing a broken left hand currently from a recent kickboxing bout, but I'd be willing to fight one-handed to get this match going.
"The Bookworm vs. The Joggernaut" can only happen if Whooter finds a way to overcome his cowardice (shout out to RobertBruce for nailing that on the head repeatedly).
Well, you know where to find me, weakling, if you grow some stones and really want to help some kids.
Now, how many would have guessed that DJ would react this way to losing an argument? He wants to punch people out or get them mad like him so that they will fight. Stooping to RobertBruces level of calling people a coward as an attempt to get a reaction.
Is this how a professional mental health person would suggest dealing with conflict? Does a lack of debating skills really need to be handled this way?
I have to side with whooter on this one. I agree with almost nothing whooter says but at least he keeps his cool and is able to communicate how he feels and poses a good argument most of the time.
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
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Geez, Whooter, you can't even man up enough to personally say you are afraid to do it. You have to pull out a sympathetic anon "guest." I always knew you weren't much of a man, but I didn't think you were this weak. RobertBruce has had your number for a looooong time. No wonder it stings so bad when he calls you a "coward." The truth hurts the most.
I think everyone knew this is how it would go.
And yes, I'm so unable to communicate that I've been published in several major magazines, notably over a dozen times in Rolling Stone. If you knew my identity you could easily verify this through a quick Google search of my very unusual surname.
Let me know when you grow some onions, Whootie. I'll be here.
In the meantime, I'll be mass emailing all of my regulatory contacts with the great news about Oregon's DHS findings that Aspen's programs are by definition child abuse.
Which parts of the Aspen program did you feel were most beneficial to your kid? The simulated-fellatio-on-underage-boys part or the humiliating dress-up-like-a-hooker-and-get-called-a-slut-and-whore-by-staff-while-forced-to-lapdance-for-the-underage-boys part?
You are one seriously sick individual to support this nasty sexualized serial child abuse.
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Yeah, I think we all knew in advance that when the rubber hit the road Whooter would punk out. I'm still up for a charity boxing match though and have gym space on reserve and a state licensed referee and physician (required by law to have a fight) ready to go if he decides to man up for the first time in his life.
I'm actually nursing a broken left hand currently from a recent kickboxing bout, but I'd be willing to fight one-handed to get this match going.
"The Bookworm vs. The Joggernaut" can only happen if Whooter finds a way to overcome his cowardice (shout out to RobertBruce for nailing that on the head repeatedly).
Well, you know where to find me, weakling, if you grow some stones and really want to help some kids.
Now, how many would have guessed that DJ would react this way to losing an argument? He wants to punch people out or get them mad like him so that they will fight. Stooping to RobertBruces level of calling people a coward as an attempt to get a reaction.
Is this how a professional mental health person would suggest dealing with conflict? Does a lack of debating skills really need to be handled this way?
I have to side with whooter on this one. I agree with almost nothing whooter says but at least he keeps his cool and is able to communicate how he feels and poses a good argument most of the time.
I knew this side of him early on when I witnessed him losing an argument over in the HLA forum years ago. He threatened to clean someone’s clock when someone produced evidence which showed Dysfunction Junction has fabricated some of the facts on one of his posts. When he was caught he wanted to meet the other person and fight him the same way he is dealing with this whooter guy. Its a frustration level along with an inability to articulate ones feelings which leads to violence. I believe if Dysfunction Junction could learn to utilize his voice better to back up what he believe in then he would win more arguments and wouldn’t have to resort to violence all the time.
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Link?? And since when is a charity boxing match considered "settling scores with violence"?
I understand you want to shift the focus off being punked and sending your kid to serial organized child abusers, but we are smart enough to carry both conversations at once.
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Geez, Whooter, you can't even man up enough to personally say you are afraid to do it. You have to pull out a sympathetic anon "guest." I always knew you weren't much of a man, but I didn't think you were this weak. RobertBruce has had your number for a looooong time. No wonder it stings so bad when he calls you a "coward." The truth hurts the most.
I think everyone knew this is how it would go.
And yes, I'm so unable to communicate that I've been published in several major magazines, notably over a dozen times in Rolling Stone. If you knew my identity you could easily verify this through a quick Google search of my very unusual surname.
Let me know when you grow some onions, Whootie. I'll be here.
In the meantime, I'll be mass emailing all of my regulatory contacts with the great news about Oregon's DHS findings that Aspen's programs are by definition child abuse.
Which parts of the Aspen program did you feel were most beneficial to your kid? The simulated-fellatio-on-underage-boys part or the humiliating dress-up-like-a-hooker-and-get-called-a-slut-and-whore-by-staff-while-forced-to-lapdance-for-the-underage-boys part?
You are one seriously sick individual to support this nasty sexualized serial child abuse.
This is hilarious!! But not the part about how TheWho sent his kid into a an abusive facility. Now I can see why RB always calls him a coward. He's a natural pantywaist!!
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Yeah, I think we all knew in advance that when the rubber hit the road Whooter would punk out. I'm still up for a charity boxing match though and have gym space on reserve and a state licensed referee and physician (required by law to have a fight) ready to go if he decides to man up for the first time in his life.
I'm actually nursing a broken left hand currently from a recent kickboxing bout, but I'd be willing to fight one-handed to get this match going.
"The Bookworm vs. The Joggernaut" can only happen if Whooter finds a way to overcome his cowardice (shout out to RobertBruce for nailing that on the head repeatedly).
Well, you know where to find me, weakling, if you grow some stones and really want to help some kids.
Now, how many would have guessed that DJ would react this way to losing an argument? He wants to punch people out or get them mad like him so that they will fight. Stooping to RobertBruces level of calling people a coward as an attempt to get a reaction.
Is this how a professional mental health person would suggest dealing with conflict? Does a lack of debating skills really need to be handled this way?
I have to side with whooter on this one. I agree with almost nothing whooter says but at least he keeps his cool and is able to communicate how he feels and poses a good argument most of the time.
I knew this side of him early on when I witnessed him losing an argument over in the HLA forum years ago. He threatened to clean someone’s clock when someone produced evidence which showed Dysfunction Junction has fabricated some of the facts on one of his posts. When he was caught he wanted to meet the other person and fight him the same way he is dealing with this whooter guy. Its a frustration level along with an inability to articulate ones feelings which leads to violence. I believe if Dysfunction Junction could learn to utilize his voice better to back up what he believe in then he would win more arguments and wouldn’t have to resort to violence all the time.
Hey, I remember that post too. I knew Dysfunction Junction had a short fuse but I was surprised that he wanted to fight the guy because he was proven wrong. I thought he had matured since then,that was years ago. He cleaned up his image here on fornits since those times. Telling us he went back to school and all. But I doubt it now based on how he is carry-on, calling people cowards and wanting to fight them.
Is this how a mental health professional acts? I think this may be why he seems to be always looking for work.
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No link, because it never happened. This is pretty sad that you accuse DJ of these things, but have no evidence of it. I guess when you're a total coward, this is all you have.
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No link, because it never happened. This is pretty sad that you accuse DJ of these things, but have no evidence of it. I guess when you're a total coward, this is all you have.
This is his M.O. He wants desperately to avoid the fact that yet another Aspen program was cited for child abuse and forcibly closed. Oh, and also that he's proven RobertBruce to be correct about his cowardice. He is also avoiding his new claims today that there have been multiple university studies performed on programs and that they showed programs were effective and that these studies were published in the universities' science journals - an obvious whopper of a lie.
He's just spinning his wheels, desperate to change the subject from his own cowardice and lying and Aspen's proven child abuse.
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I'll find the link, don't worry. It seems a lot of people remember DJ's violent threats. You all become so upset when the simple truth is presented: programs are effect (period)
And.
Oh God, I just had the most terrible revelation: I'm an asshole and programs don't work! Shit, look at what happened to my family and don't place your kid in ANY program. Forgive me for the evil I have done.
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I'll find the link, don't worry. It seems a lot of people remember DJ's violent threats. You all become so upset when the simple truth is presented: programs are effect (period)
And.
Oh God, I just had the most terrible revelation: I'm an asshole and programs don't work! Shit, look at what happened to my family and don't place your kid in ANY program. Forgive me for the evil I have done.
Ha,Ha,Ha, Thats funny!!!! As I was reading I could figure out what was going on... then I realized "it was me!!" lol. I am glad we can all keep a sense of humor through all of this.
@ DJ, I am glad the urge to beat someone up has subsided a bit. you are still making personal attacks but I take it as a big step. I noted in another thread that you were actually using documentation and facts to support your argument. I think you will see the discussion is much more productive that way for both sides. Stick with the study for awhile and see how you make out. I think you may be surprised by what you read and discover.
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I'm only speaking for myself. I told this guy several times not to trifle with me, but he did it anyway.
Apparently some people here either knew or suspected "who" he was but lacked the testicular fortitude to buck up. I do not suffer from that shortcoming.
John David Reuben posted for nearly five years here, mostly anonymously, taunting and degrading people who suffered at the hands of people just like him.
People like John David Reuben, a.k.a. TheWho, believe children are commodities and any business that can raise its earned value added assessment by exploiting their vulnerability for financial gain is a good business. For people like John, children have no rights and no say.
To add insult to injury, he then claims to be a "survivor" because people loathe him here and told him so, as if he had no choice but to stay and take it.
He could have left by his own volition at any time to stop whatever discomfort he may have felt (which I suspect is none anyway; he got off on it), a luxury not afforded to privately incarcerated children like his sons, Mike (RIP) and Max, whom were both forced into programs against their will and forced to stay there until they turned 18 or until daddy gave their jailers the OK to cut them loose.
Therein is the crux of the argument. He railroads children into virtual private kiddie jails where they have no choice but to cope with the abuse and neglect, but poor little Johnny paints himself as a victim here, like a fucking impotent crybaby.
This is a man who doesn't deserve to have children in the first place. And I'm going to spend every minute of my spare time educating anyone who will listen about what a twisted little psychopath this scrawny little bastard is.
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I'm only speaking for myself. I told this guy several times not to trifle with me, but he did it anyway.
Apparently some people here either knew or suspected "who" he was but lacked the testicular fortitude to buck up. I do not suffer from that shortcoming.
John David Reuben (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) posted for nearly five years here, mostly anonymously, taunting and degrading people who suffered at the hands of people just like him.
People like John David Reuben, a.k.a. Thewho (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) , believe children are commodities and any business that can raise its earned value added assessment by exploiting their vulnerability for financial gain is a good business. For people like John, children have no rights and no say.
To add insult to injury, he then claims to be a "survivor (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) " because people loathe him here and told him so, as if he had no choice but to stay and take it.
He could have left by his own volition at any time to stop whatever discomfort he may have felt (which I suspect is none anyway; he got off on it), a luxury not afforded to privately incarcerated children like his sons, Mike (RIP) and Max, whom were both forced into programs against their will and forced to stay there until they turned 18 or until daddy gave their jailers the OK to cut them loose.
Therein is the crux of the argument. He railroads children (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) into virtual private kiddie jails where they have no choice but to cope with the abuse and neglect, but poor little Johnny paints himself as a victim here, like a fucking impotent crybaby.
This is a man who doesn't deserve to have children in the first place. And I'm going to spend every minute of my spare time educating anyone who will listen about what a twisted little psychopath this scrawny little bastard is.
-
I'm only speaking for myself. I told this guy several times not to trifle with me, but he did it anyway.
Apparently some people here either knew or suspected "who" he was but lacked the testicular fortitude to buck up. I do not suffer from that shortcoming.
John David Reuben (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) posted for nearly five years here, mostly anonymously, taunting and degrading people who suffered at the hands of people just like him.
People like John David Reuben, a.k.a. Thewho (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) , believe children are commodities and any business that can raise its earned value added assessment by exploiting their vulnerability for financial gain is a good business. For people like John, children have no rights and no say.
To add insult to injury, he then claims to be a "survivor (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) " because people loathe him here and told him so, as if he had no choice but to stay and take it.
He could have left by his own volition at any time to stop whatever discomfort he may have felt (which I suspect is none anyway; he got off on it), a luxury not afforded to privately incarcerated children like his sons, Mike (RIP) and Max, whom were both forced into programs against their will and forced to stay there until they turned 18 or until daddy gave their jailers the OK to cut them loose.
Therein is the crux of the argument. He railroads children (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) into virtual private kiddie jails where they have no choice but to cope with the abuse and neglect, but poor little Johnny paints himself as a victim here, like a fucking impotent crybaby.
This is a man who doesn't deserve to have children in the first place. And I'm going to spend every minute of my spare time educating anyone who will listen about what a twisted little psychopath this scrawny little bastard is.
I have read his posts and this is true.
-
G
I'm only speaking for myself. I told this guy several times not to trifle with me, but he did it anyway.
Apparently some people here either knew or suspected "who" he was but lacked the testicular fortitude to buck up. I do not suffer from that shortcoming.
John David Reuben (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) posted for nearly five years here, mostly anonymously, taunting and degrading people who suffered at the hands of people just like him.
People like John David Reuben, a.k.a. Thewho (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) , believe children are commodities and any business that can raise its earned value added assessment by exploiting their vulnerability for financial gain is a good business. For people like John, children have no rights and no say.
To add insult to injury, he then claims to be a "survivor (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) " because people loathe him here and told him so, as if he had no choice but to stay and take it.
He could have left by his own volition at any time to stop whatever discomfort he may have felt (which I suspect is none anyway; he got off on it), a luxury not afforded to privately incarcerated children like his sons, Mike (RIP) and Max, whom were both forced into programs against their will and forced to stay there until they turned 18 or until daddy gave their jailers the OK to cut them loose.
Therein is the crux of the argument. He railroads children (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) into virtual private kiddie jails where they have no choice but to cope with the abuse and neglect, but poor little Johnny paints himself as a victim here, like a fucking impotent crybaby.
This is a man who doesn't deserve to have children in the first place. And I'm going to spend every minute of my spare time educating anyone who will listen about what a twisted little psychopath this scrawny little bastard is.
I have read his posts and this is true.
I agree This is true. (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
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Yeah, I think we all knew in advance that when the rubber hit the road Whooter would punk out. I'm still up for a charity boxing match though and have gym space on reserve and a state licensed referee and physician (required by law to have a fight) ready to go if he decides to man up for the first time in his life.
I'm actually nursing a broken left hand currently from a recent kickboxing bout, but I'd be willing to fight one-handed to get this match going.
"The Bookworm vs. The Joggernaut" can only happen if Whooter finds a way to overcome his cowardice (shout out to RobertBruce for nailing that on the head repeatedly).
Well, you know where to find me, weakling, if you grow some stones and really want to help some kids.
:notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book), when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
-
John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
-
John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
I'm only speaking for myself. I told this guy several times not to trifle with me, but he did it anyway.
Apparently some people here either knew or suspected "who" he was but lacked the testicular fortitude to buck up. I do not suffer from that shortcoming.
John David Reuben (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) posted for nearly five years here, mostly anonymously, taunting and degrading people who suffered at the hands of people just like him.
People like John David Reuben, a.k.a. Thewho (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) , believe children are commodities and any business that can raise its earned value added assessment by exploiting their vulnerability for financial gain is a good business. For people like John, children have no rights and no say.
To add insult to injury, he then claims to be a "survivor (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) " because people loathe him here and told him so, as if he had no choice but to stay and take it.
He could have left by his own volition at any time to stop whatever discomfort he may have felt (which I suspect is none anyway; he got off on it), a luxury not afforded to privately incarcerated children like his sons, Mike (RIP) and Max, whom were both forced into programs against their will and forced to stay there until they turned 18 or until daddy gave their jailers the OK to cut them loose.
Therein is the crux of the argument. He railroads children (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book) into virtual private kiddie jails where they have no choice but to cope with the abuse and neglect, but poor little Johnny paints himself as a victim here, like a fucking impotent crybaby.
This is a man who doesn't deserve to have children in the first place. And I'm going to spend every minute of my spare time educating anyone who will listen about what a twisted little psychopath this scrawny little bastard is.
I have read his posts and this is true.
I agree This is true. (http://http://www.davemarcus.com/content/what-it-takes-pull-me-through-about-book)
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."[/quote]
This is sad : (
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I'm only speaking for myself. I told this guy several times not to trifle with me, but he did it anyway.
Apparently some people here either knew or suspected "who" he was but lacked the testicular fortitude to buck up. I do not suffer from that shortcoming.
John David Reuben posted for nearly five years here, mostly anonymously, taunting and degrading people who suffered at the hands of people just like him.
People like John David Reuben, a.k.a. TheWho, believe children are commodities and any business that can raise its earned value added assessment by exploiting their vulnerability for financial gain is a good business. For people like John, children have no rights and no say.
To add insult to injury, he then claims to be a "survivor" because people loathe him here and told him so, as if he had no choice but to stay and take it.
He could have left by his own volition at any time to stop whatever discomfort he may have felt (which I suspect is none anyway; he got off on it), a luxury not afforded to privately incarcerated children like his sons, Mike (RIP) and Max, whom were both forced into programs against their will and forced to stay there until they turned 18 or until daddy gave their jailers the OK to cut them loose.
Therein is the crux of the argument. He railroads children into virtual private kiddie jails where they have no choice but to cope with the abuse and neglect, but poor little Johnny paints himself as a victim here, like a fucking impotent crybaby.
This is a man who doesn't deserve to have children in the first place. And I'm going to spend every minute of my spare time educating anyone who will listen about what a twisted little psychopath this scrawny little bastard is.
This John D. Reuben guy sounds like a major-league psycho.........
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
-
John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
-
Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
This Reuben guy gives the sandwich a bad name. He's a fucked up person.
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Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
This is disgusting. John Reuben is a vulture circling the dead carcasses from Aspen Education's fresh kills, which are plentiful these days.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
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TheWho's Current Business (http://http://www.vendisys.com/index.html)
He left this job after less than a year, right after Mikey killed OD'd.
TheWho's Professional Profile (http://http://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-reuben/0/38b/2aa)
He did mention several times here that he is not good at "holding down a job" and that appears to be true. The longest he ever held a job was five years and that was twenty years ago. Since then he hasn't been able to keep a job longer than three years.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
-
"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
-
John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
-
"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
-
I was arrested several times in Boston...
Funny, so was John Reuben. He was arrested several times in Boston as well. On the same dates TheWho was arrested. Coincidence? Hardly.
Anyway, why would any parent entrust their child's welfare to John Reuben, an admitted criminal with an extensive arrest record including public intoxication and destruction of property, who openly refers to the most abusive family of programs, Aspen Education, who had half of their programs in Oregon forcibly shut down by state investigators for murdering, abusing and neglecting children in their care, including sexualized humiliation by forcing little girls to give lap dances to and perform simulated felatio on their unlicensed, uneducated couselors?
Think about this, parents, before you make the biggest mistake of your and your kid's life.
Finally the proof we've all been waiting for... Jig's up, Johnny, errr, Whooter.
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That is correct, but the situation was much funnier. Thewho was arrested for working a Glory Hole in a Boston bar. He was drunk while he was doing it, hence the DIP. He was charged with destruction of property because he still had the drill and the bore bit he used to make his Glory Hole.
You have to read those arrest reports carefully.
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All I'm saying is, whatever the underlying circumstances of TheWho's many arrests, is that he's a complete fraud. He wants people to believe he's some kind of child care expert, but what he really is is a convicted criminal. He doesn't tell people that. He's a complete fraud. Why would anyone believe anything this guy has to say when he's not even honest about the real extent of his long record of deviant behavior.
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I think fornits was the last place on earth where TheWho's criminal record didn't follow him, but now it's out there. I hope he can be honest like he demands of everyone else and explain his loooong arrest record and several convictions which resluted in his having an FBI number and disallowed from owning firearms. Until he cops to his guilt, he's gonna get the chair. He's a liar and a mianipulator.
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Yes, he is. He has also been very busy lately changing quotes to make it look like he had a point, but he's just altering other people's posts, something he threw a hissy about when he accused Deborah of it. Bu tit turned out that he did it to his own posts just so he could try to blame "Fornits". He's doing the same thing now while avoidong responsibility for his criminal history.
-
John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
-
Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
-
John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
-
The tide is turning (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29431#p352639) on aspen Education. Now even very, very conservative EdCons are saying the type of program Aspen runs and John D. Reuben refer to, are abusive and should be shut down. This is big news. STICC has a lot of explaining to do about why they send kids to these places when everybody, including their most loyal EdCons, now call them abusive and call people like John Reuben "apologisys" for abusive programs. Long, long overdue.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
-
"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
-
Using Mikey's obit as a marketing tool for STICC:
REUBEN, Michael Joshua Age 22, of Sudbury, MA. Beloved son of John D. Reuben. Brother of Max H. Reuben. Musician, artist and sales executive. We will miss our child and the young man he became. Addiction was the illness that took him, but never the essence of who he was. Also survived by his loving grandmother, and numerous dear aunts, uncles, cousins and friends, including the Abreu and Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson. Donations may be made in his memory to: Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative, a non-profit organization founded by John Reuben to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org) <http://www.savingteens.org/> P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144
John ran several paid obit's accross the country, each one used as a donation portal for the TTI.
-
John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
Max was at HLA, a confirmedly abusive, now extinctified shit-pit in Georgia.
Joel, have you read this thread?
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Joel, I have given everything I know about this business to these forums already. All of my insight and experiences are already posted.
I find it interesting that you call pointing out the obvious lies of Whooter and his attempts to rope in unsuspecting marks for Aspen as "repetitive whining, " and advising me to "move on." You must not care about the kids he sends off to be abused at the duck farms. If you did, you'd try to put a stop to it here, because this site should never be used to send more kids into the hands of hacks and quacks like Rudy Bentz, whom Whooter believes is a great guy. If he wants to process referrals and post disinformation on StrugglingParents, that's fine, but I will always try to insure he or anyone else doesn't do it here, for the sake of the kids who would be harmed by it.
If you don't like what I post, don't read it. Just "move on" and quit your "repetitive whining" about how a scumbag like Whooter gets treated here.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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You must not care about the kids he sends off to be abused at the duck farms.
I, like yourself, worked at a program..
There's a shocker!!! ::)
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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I really don't have any questions for you Joel. I've been researching this for the better part of a dozen years now. I've heard all the differing perspectives, believe me....more than I ever wanted to.
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Joel, I have given everything I know about this business to these forums already. All of my insight and experiences are already posted.
I find it interesting that you call pointing out the obvious lies of Whooter and his attempts to rope in unsuspecting marks for Aspen as "repetitive whining, " and advising me to "move on." You must not care about the kids he sends off to be abused at the duck farms. If you did, you'd try to put a stop to it here, because this site should never be used to send more kids into the hands of hacks and quacks like Rudy Bentz, whom Whooter believes is a great guy. If he wants to process referrals and post disinformation on StrugglingParents, that's fine, but I will always try to insure he or anyone else doesn't do it here, for the sake of the kids who would be harmed by it.
If you don't like what I post, don't read it. Just "move on" and quit your "repetitive whining" about how a scumbag like Whooter gets treated here.
Joel is the troll "randy jackson" aka "exposecedu" who was banned for flooding. He has reappeared under this new name. He has impersonated survivors before. Now he appears to be impersonating Che's brother. Correct me if I'm wrong, Che. He has impersonated the survivor and poster Bob Peterson before.
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
:peace: :bump:
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It is time to move on DJ. I know this may be difficult for you to do but it would benefit fornits in the long run. Honestly, there are people whether they choose to admit it, who don't care about your endless whooter posts. You have a valuable insight about ASR. Perhaps you can build on that, post online articles etc.
Joel, DJ is beside himself that he has to log in to troll me now. When I first started posting on fornits I held Dysfunction Junction accountable for his posts. He couldn’t back up what he said with links or facts and eventually we all had to dismissed his posts as unreliable. When I eventually held his feet to the fire he went underground and started guest posting so he could attack from the shadows. I respect other peoples opinion, but I couldn’t tolerate him trying to pass along his opinions as fact.
Now that we forced him back into the light again (by requiring him to log in) he is having a difficult time finding his place again. I expect he will continue on this path until he gets use to having all his posts laid out for all to see. It is interesting how he cant seem to contribute on any one topic on his own yet. Your idea about posting on line articles may be a good first step for him. But we will have to be diligent in requiring him to provide links to his source, at least initially.
...
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Ha Ha Ha. Whooter lives in Bizarro World. Just replace "DJ" and "Dysfunction Junction" in his previous post with "Whooter" and it will conform to reality.
Whooter loves to project his own shortcomings onto others. Look at how he accused Anne Bonney of being "completely uneducated" when Whooter never even graduated college - more projection. Go back and read any of the old threads about Whooter and you'll see he's just a plain old liar. Not to mention he is now very upset that he has no supporters whatsover (because he can't post anon supporting himself). He's isolated and is just lashing out that his carefully crafted facade has been demolished and he's exposed for what he is. Oh well!
I wonder why, since Whooter denies being John Reuben, he would take my bumping of the John Reuben thread as trolling him? A little slip there, Whooter? :rofl:
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Not to mention he is now very upset that he has no supporters whatsover (because he can't post anon supporting himself). He's isolated and is just lashing out that his carefully crafted facade has been demolished and he's exposed for what he is. Oh well!
Oh, that's right!! I forgot about the no anon posting rule. That's it! You hit the nail on the head!
I wonder why, since Whooter denies being John Reuben, he would take my bumping of the John Reuben thread as trolling him? A little slip there, Whooter? :rofl:
Good catch!
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Bumped for educational purposes.
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Translation: I am a Fornits Loser obsessed with Whooter and want to let everyone know this.
From this point on, Dysfunctional Junction, Anne Bonney and Ursus shall officially be known as "WHOOTERS CHILDREN".
Fucking losers.
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Easy, now. They have legitimate concerns and a long history. I understand you may want to move on to another topic, and that's perfectly fine.
Auntie Em
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"SUCK IT" is just one of Whooter's many logins. It can be ignored.
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Translation: I am a Fornits Loser obsessed with Whooter and want to let everyone know this.
From this point on, Dysfunctional Junction, Anne Bonney and Ursus shall officially be known as "WHOOTERS CHILDREN".
Fucking losers.
:shamrock: :shamrock:
I second this.......
Danny
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Easy, now. They have legitimate concerns and a long history. I understand you may want to move on to another topic, and that's perfectly fine.
Auntie Em
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Can I ask one question without sounding like I am baiting, who has the legitimate concerns just the three being admonished or everyone in this debate. Sounds like your only talking about Ursus, Anne and DJ. not included was Whooter. I could be wrong though just asking.
Danny
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Translation: I am a Fornits Loser obsessed with Whooter and want to let everyone know this.
From this point on, Dysfunctional Junction, Anne Bonney and Ursus shall officially be known as "WHOOTERS CHILDREN".
Fucking losers.
:shamrock: :shamrock:
I second this.......
Danny
Easy, now. They have legitimate concerns and a long history. I understand you may want to move on to another topic, and that's perfectly fine.
Auntie Em
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Can I ask one question without sounding like I am baiting, who has the legitimate concerns just the three being admonished or everyone in this debate. Sounds like your only talking about Ursus, Anne and DJ. not included was Whooter. I could be wrong though just asking.
Danny
Lol. Considering that I've probably contributed all of a half-dozen posts to this thread of close to 600, I'm flattered that you believe I effect so much bang for my buck... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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John D. Reuben is a wanna-be EdCon 'who' started a business making referrals to known abusive programs. He has linked up with some of the most familiar bogeymen of the TTI such as Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and many others, like NATSAP and Aspen Education.
John's son, 'who' was forced into two abusive programs, SUWS and ASR, did not receive the help he desperately needed from the unlicensed, unseducated staff of SUWS and ASR, but he was able to make it through, getting out at age 18. Since the boy's legitimate psychological issues were never addressed while he was detained by for-profit quacks, his family bond was destroyed and when he came home from ASR he estranged himself from John and went back to his old behaviors (as almost every teen does after being detained by quacks) and got much more deeply into much harder drugs, turning to heroin to get his fix and escape from his terrible problems that his father refused to seek legitimate treatment for.
Eventually Michael Joshua Reuben overdosed on heroin and died due to his father's neglect in his time of need.
John's son Max H. Reuben is also a program veteran, but John declines to say which program.
Please lend your support in researching John's connections to the TTI and those of his firm STICC.
John, if you had followed sound medical advice, Mike would still be with us today. Max, although still living, is deeply scarred by his experiences that you forced him into. Now you want other people to follow your example which leads to psychological destruction or even death. John used paid death notices in newspapers accross the country to draw attention to STICC and to get donations to send other kids to SUWS and ASR, a particularly misguided and disgusting thing to do.
Thank you to Mike's roommate [name withheld] who sought me out to tell Mike's story here and ask us here at Fornits to try to cripple STICC as a referral source to programs that verifiably kill children and are 100% ineffective.
R.I.P., Mike. Your dad let you down, but your friends love you eternally. :peace:
Please add your thoughts to this topic.
:notworthy: ::puke::
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Reminder: John Reuben and STICC are still out there trying to incarcerate children in abusive programs like Aspen Ed. Let's not forget.
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Oh my God. My wife's sister had her son "placed" by this person into a highly abusive facility. She ended up getting her son out (which this guy fought along with the program) and suing them. I had no idea he had this type of history with his own children and his wife. This is scaring me now. I'm going to call my sister and aske her if her attorney knows about all of this.
Wow, this brings back memories. This woman was so upset and kept posting in different threads that her nephew was placed into ASR and was being abused there.. I have to give DJ credit this was a good troll. I never thought this was Dysfunction Junction. I really believed this woman and that DJ convinced her that ASR was abusive.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=348270#p348270)
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And, by the way, my name is spelled "Pegg" with two "g's" so please stop trying to hijack my identity and put your words in my mouth, Whooter. For the record, it was Whooter posing as me in the past few posts and I did not say those things. It's just another example of how cowardly he is when he can't use his won name but tries to steal other people's identities. I support the idea that Whooter and DJ settle things in the ring, like men, to raise money for the kids, but I think Whooter is really genuinely afraid of it.
I dont remember what this conversation was all about, but it sounds really funny. I think this was a woman DJ was pretending to be. Pegg Sympson I believe. She had a son in a CEDU program as I remember or at least that is what her posts said.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=350083#p350083)
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Well, RobertBruce was indeed right about Whooter. He's a coward.
He has a chance to earn some money for a charitable cause, but he's too afraid of big, bad, DJ (a bookworm) to have a fight in the ring for charity. Whooter is simply a message board bully and a real-life coward. It's not like anyone would really get hurt and it's for a good cause, but, alas, Whooter is too afraid to step up.
It tells al ot about his character. This is why his kids had to go to programs. Whooter couldn't man up and be a good parent. He chose the easy way out.
When it comes time to put up or shut up, he runs away. Why not put your money where your mouth is so DJ can put his fist in your money, little coward?
I think we all knew this is how Whooter would handle confrontation. Ha, Ha, Ha.
This was DJ posting as "Jake Rios". I always thought Jake Rios was RobertBruce (sorry Bob). Jake (DJ) was a busy poster for awhile there and was a survivor. You can see the name in the thread I captured underneath this one when you click on the link. Wow DJ really trolled the bejesus out of me. I thought I had him good a few times when I was trolling him, but he did more posting than I thought.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=350044#p350044)
...
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:roflmao:
Those are some really funny finds there. I'm still waiting for all the fornits regulars to get as upset with DJ for lying, and pretending to be other people, some people about had a meltdown when I created that posterX thread and the admin decided to out me against my will. I think Whooter is right, DJ appears to be obsessed with him. Funny stuff!!
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Your will is utterly irrelevant.
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Oh my God. My wife's sister had her son "placed" by this person into a highly abusive facility. She ended up getting her son out (which this guy fought along with the program) and suing them. I had no idea he had this type of history with his own children and his wife. This is scaring me now. I'm going to call my sister and aske her if her attorney knows about all of this.
Biz-umpety!
Keep the sunlight on this vampire.
I like this one. The guest post he is commenting on is one that he wrote. I remember that besides my posts this whole thread was mostly guest posts. I didnt know that they were almost all penned by DJ. I got trolled good on this one.
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
This marketing spin makes me nauseous. We're talking about HUMAN BEINGS here, John. I know the conscienceless, like yourself, see children as commodities, but this is WAY out of line. You disgust me, sir.
Of course you are nauseous. That is because you are weak and lack foresight like most people. See the problem is you miss the bigger picture. You think small and think problems can be solved by hugging people. People and kids dont need hugs they need solutions, they need to know someone is in control and can make them feel safe. Most parents jump in and try to save their child by getting involved in their lives. But the truth is it is too late at this point to save them by this approach because they have traveled too far down the path. The parents should have been more involved all along. So instead of taking the road everyone else was taking another option was to start a business around the problem. This way you not only get help for your child but you find you are able to raise money for other kids to be placed and after the smoke settles 2 things occur:
1. It doesn’t cost a dime for treatment and
2. You can actually reverse the flow and have a few coins end up back in your pocket to boot.
You need to always keep a level head and look for opportunity when others are panicking. This is key and is the Hallmark of successful people. Whenever something is going terribly bad try to think about how you can profit by it and turn it around into something good. I have always been a firm believer that there exists a silver lining in every situation. It is our jobs to find it and utilize it or someone else will.
As far as trying to find something scientifically proven, that is hogwash. By the time any good set of studies are completed the treatment is outdated and people have moved on to something more "leading edge". Hell they still cant figure out how bees fly but that doesnt prevent us from enjoying the honey.
Truly disgusting. I've said before, if Whooter is in fact John Reuben, there isn't a hell torturous enough for him. Profiting off the back of your dead child who, at the very least, wasn't helped at all by the program(s) he was sent to and more than likely (especially since it was an Aspen program that uses attack therapy to break the kids down) contributed to the feeling of desperation enough that suicide became his 'salvation' is truly sickening. Literally sickening.
Children are not commodities. They are not ours to "control". Our job is not to mold them into what we want them to be, but to help them realize their own hopes and dreams, not ours for them.
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I KNEW it and called it! Marketing.....no wonder he's so good at the spin.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26615#p323338 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26615#p323338)
Dad helps others after son's struggle with addiction (http://http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/x72907923/Dad-helps-others-after-sons-struggle-with-addiction)
By Kathy Uek/Daily News staff
The MetroWest Daily News
Posted Sep 24, 2008 @ 01:13 AM
Last update Sep 24, 2008 @ 04:26 PM
SUDBURY —
Many people don't talk about the struggle over addiction.
Michael Reuben, 22, a successful sales professional, musician and artist, did. He also talked about his recovery and his day-to-day struggle to fight a drug relapse.
The Sudbury native died from a heroin overdose Sunday. After Reuben's death notice - which told of his addiction - was published, total strangers called to speak about the struggles of their addicted brothers, mothers, sons or themselves.
"I got so many e-mails telling me how courageous we are for even admitting this," said Reuben's father, John, of Sudbury.
People identified with Michael's life. "One man called to say, 'I've been sober for 45 years and I'm still struggling,"' said Michael's aunt Catherine Reuben.
"This isn't a kid who died in some shooting gallery surrounded by addicts," said his father. "That wasn't him. When people think of heroin addiction, they think of someone living this horrible dysfunctional life completely clouded by drugs. For most, like Michael, it's a battle against relapse. When Michael wasn't relapsing, he was living a normal life. He was a kid taking accountability for the disease, managing his life and supporting himself."
Reuben worked as a sales executive in Prescott, Ariz., for Lincoln-based Vendisys, a marketing firm his father owned. "He was one of our top performers dealing with high-level executives and working long hours. He had a lot going for him."
Michael was a good student, maintaining a 3.5 grade point average at Lincoln-Sudbury Regional High School until he got into drugs. Reuben's troubles with drugs began in the middle of his senior year with drinking, then marijuana and ultimately progressing to intravenous heroin, his father said. He left school before graduation and received his GED, said his father. His drug addiction progressed to intravenous heroin.
"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them.
"My son was in this situation and I knew I could only do so much," said John Reuben. "I used whatever resources and talents I have to help others."
Since losing his son, after the anger, anguish and remorse, John Reuben has poured himself into his nonprofit organization to provide resources to families, who fight a similar battle. He does it "to get something positive out of this tragedy and let people know this happens in fortunate and unfortunate families, in Malden, Somerville, Sudbury and Los Angeles," he said.
And he and his family remember the essence of Michael. "He had very good insight and a way of relating to people so they felt comfortable and could tell him anything," said John Reuben. "When Michael talked to you, he gave you his full attention and listened intently. I'm devastated he's gone. There's a hole in my heart that will never come close to being filled."
When his aunt Cathy thinks of Michael, she thinks of his dry wit and the fantastical places and creatures he painted.
Michael Joshua Reuben leaves his brother, Max, his grandmother and several aunts, uncles and cousins, including the Reuben/Glanzman families of Somerville and the Frias family of Hudson.
Memorial services are incomplete.
Memorial donations may be made to Save Teens in Crisis Collaboration, P.O. Box 441363, West Somerville, MA 02144.
Copyright © 2009 GateHouse Media, Inc.
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::puke:: :jawdrop:
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I know....pretty fucking sick, huh?
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I KNEW it and called it! Marketing.....no wonder he's so good at the spin.
John Reuben has a loooong history of sales and marketing experience. From Correlsense's website:
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John David Reuben, VP of Sales and Marketing (http://http://www.correlsense.com/team.html)
Mr. Reuben manages worldwide sales operations for Correlsense. John Reuben has more than 20 years of sales, operations and management experience at global software and technology companies offering enterprise-level solutions. Prior to joining Correlsense, Mr. Reuben was vice president of sales for Prolify, a Netanya, Israel business process management software developer. He also held the position of vice president of sales and marketing at Kintana, a provider of IT Governance software and helped grow that company from $0-24M in less than three years. He was also a worldwide sales director at Oracle Corporation and founded one of their first application regions. John also held sales and sales management positions at Andersen Consulting, iSpheres, and System Software Associates. He holds a B.A. from the University of Massachusetts. In 2004, John founded Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org)), a non-profit organization formed to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. John manages this as a volunteer.
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I KNEW it and called it! Marketing.....no wonder he's so good at the spin.
John Reuben has a loooong history of sales and marketing experience. From Correlsense's website:
-------------- • -------------- • --------------
John David Reuben, VP of Sales and Marketing (http://http://www.correlsense.com/team.html)
Mr. Reuben manages worldwide sales operations for Correlsense. John Reuben has more than 20 years of sales, operations and management experience at global software and technology companies offering enterprise-level solutions. Prior to joining Correlsense, Mr. Reuben was vice president of sales for Prolify, a Netanya, Israel business process management software developer. He also held the position of vice president of sales and marketing at Kintana, a provider of IT Governance software and helped grow that company from $0-24M in less than three years. He was also a worldwide sales director at Oracle Corporation and founded one of their first application regions. John also held sales and sales management positions at Andersen Consulting, iSpheres, and System Software Associates. He holds a B.A. from the University of Massachusetts. In 2004, John founded Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (http://www.savingteens.org (http://www.savingteens.org)), a non-profit organization formed to assist troubled teens and their families struggling with substance abuse and other emotional issues. John manages this as a volunteer.
Fucking salesman. Figures. ::puke::
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But... he tests his product thoroughly. Gotta give him credit for that. Puts his own blood right on the line.
Two kids. Both were sent to at least two programs each:
- Michael: SUWS, Academy at Swift River
- Max: Outback, Hidden Lake Academy
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But... he tests his product thoroughly. Gotta give him credit for that. Puts his own blood right on the line.
Two kids. Both were sent to at least two programs each:
- Michael: SUWS, Academy at Swift River
- Max: Outback, Hidden Lake Academy
Ah, I wondered why the interest and inner knowledge about HLA. Wasn't it shut down?
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But... he tests his product thoroughly. Gotta give him credit for that. Puts his own blood right on the line.
Two kids. Both were sent to at least two programs each:
- Michael: SUWS, Academy at Swift River
- Max: Outback, Hidden Lake Academy
Ah, I wondered why the interest and inner knowledge about HLA. Wasn't it shut down?
If you have read anything about his business he tries to help families come up with the funds to be able to afford TBS's so he would naturally have an interest in many of these places and how they operate.
...
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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pretty twisted. How many times do we hear someone justifying all manner of self-indulgence because they had to do it "before someone else does". There is indeed always a way to capitalize off of someone else's misery. When the Glass-Steagall act was killed Wall Street figured they had to get in there and rope in some suckers with their usurious, crappy mortgages, chop them into bonds, sell the bonds around the world (bonds like the ones that bankrupted Iceland), creating a world financial crisis "before someone else does". Then they had to sell credit default swaps as insurance against the bonds "before someone else does". and whaddya know? The cockroaches crawled out of the woodwork to rip off the
poor suckers in foreclosure "before someone else does".
If I sent my kid to a program and it did not work I would want to burn the place down, not line my pockets by sending other kids to their doom.
:-[
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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But... he tests his product thoroughly. Gotta give him credit for that. Puts his own blood right on the line.
Two kids. Both were sent to at least two programs each:
- Michael: SUWS, Academy at Swift River
- Max: Outback, Hidden Lake Academy
Ah, I wondered why the interest and inner knowledge about HLA. Wasn't it shut down?
If you have read anything about his business he tries to help families come up with the funds to be able to afford TBS's so he would naturally have an interest in many of these places and how they operate.
Yeah, yeah.....we know....you're just a simple program parent trying to help. No monetary interest in the industry at all. ::)
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But... he tests his product thoroughly. Gotta give him credit for that. Puts his own blood right on the line.
Two kids. Both were sent to at least two programs each:
- Michael: SUWS, Academy at Swift River
- Max: Outback, Hidden Lake Academy
Ah, I wondered why the interest and inner knowledge about HLA. Wasn't it shut down?
If you have read anything about his business he tries to help families come up with the funds to be able to afford TBS's so he would naturally have an interest in many of these places and how they operate.
Yeah, yeah.....we know....you're just a simple program parent trying to help. No monetary interest in the industry at all. ::)
Yeah, yeah.....we know....you're just a simple survivor parent claiming to have raised an at-risk teen. ::)
...
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Yeah, yeah.....we know....you're just a simple survivor parent claiming to have raised an at-risk teen. ::)
And my monetary motive would be....what?
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Yeah, yeah.....we know....you're just a simple survivor parent claiming to have raised an at-risk teen. ::)
And my monetary motive would be....what?
You are the one who brought up the money I didnt. Maybe you would deny your daughter help because you want to protect your retirement nest egg and denied her help hoping she would make it through somehow on her own, who knows, you may be selfish. Many parents don't want to gamble on their childs outcome and seek help for them proactively. But you brought it up not me.
...
...
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Yeah, yeah.....we know....you're just a simple survivor parent claiming to have raised an at-risk teen. ::)
And my monetary motive would be....what?
You are the one who brought up the money I didnt. Maybe you would deny your daughter help because you want to protect your retirement nest egg and denied her help hoping she would make it through somehow on her own, who knows, you may be selfish.
Well, that might explain a decision not to place her in a program (although that wasn't it...I wasn't about to subject her to the bullshit that I was), but it sure wouldn't explain my continued posting here - unlike you. If you are John Reuben, then you have a monetary interest in staying here to defend the industry itself because you've decided to make your living off of it, even though it at the very least, it didn't help your son and at the worst contributed to his despair. How sad for him.
Many parents don't want to gamble on their childs outcome and seek help for them proactively. But you brought it up not me.
Oh, it wasn't a gamble. I knew damn well that placing her in one of those shitholes would do much more damage than good. That's probably the one good thing that came out of my time at Straight.....I definitely knew what NOT to do.
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Well, that might explain a decision not to place her in a program (although that wasn't it...I wasn't about to subject her to the bullshit that I was), but it sure wouldn't explain my continued posting here - unlike you. If you are John Reuben, then you have a monetary interest in staying here to defend the industry itself because you've decided to make your living off of it, even though it at the very least, it didn't help your son and at the worst contributed to his despair. How sad for him.
I think it is probably good for him to keep busy with his business and trying to help other kids. I am not sure what I would do in similar circumstances. Having a child die before you do must be hard, I cant imagine going through that.
Oh, it wasn't a gamble. I knew damn well that placing her in one of those shitholes would do much more damage than good. That's probably the one good thing that came out of my time at Straight.....I definitely knew what NOT to do.
...and I think that is what all parents need to do is go with their experiences in life when it comes to raising their children. No two circumstances are the same. You swear by your decision not to send your child while others swear by their decision to send their child. Some parents who decide not to send their child is the right decision and others turn out not to be. The same with programs, some kids are helped by them and others are not.
...
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Well, that might explain a decision not to place her in a program (although that wasn't it...I wasn't about to subject her to the bullshit that I was), but it sure wouldn't explain my continued posting here - unlike you. If you are John Reuben, then you have a monetary interest in staying here to defend the industry itself because you've decided to make your living off of it, even though it at the very least, it didn't help your son and at the worst contributed to his despair. How sad for him.
I think it is probably good for him to keep busy with his business and trying to help other kids.
Help them how? Aspen obviously didn't help Mike Reuben, yet his father insists on shilling for the very programs that not only didn't help, but more than likely contributed to his despair. To subject a truly "troubled" child to the kinds of attack methods and LGAT psycho-babble sessions that Aspen uses is like pouring gasoline on a fire. Hell, Aspen even stated that they provide no treatment so why send someone who honestly IS troubled into a mindfuck like LGAT attack "therapy" sessions that are specifically designed to break a kid down.....yanno, for their own good. ::)
Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. ~~ C.S. Lewis
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Maybe these (http://http://www.sticc.org/pages/home.php) are the "STICCy results that last a lifetime" that Reuben offers to these kiddies?
The Sexually Transmitted Infections Community Coalition (STICC) is a partnership of over thirty public and private stakeholders in the metropolitan area who have a common interest to reduce the impact of sexually transmitted infections (STIs)*, including HIV, in the community.
I guess "itchy and burning results that last a lifetime," too.
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Help them how? Aspen obviously didn't help Mike Reuben, yet his father insists on shilling for the very programs that not only didn't help, but more than likely contributed to his despair. To subject a truly "troubled" child to the kinds of attack methods and LGAT psycho-babble sessions that Aspen uses is like pouring gasoline on a fire. Hell, Aspen even stated that they provide no treatment so why send someone who honestly IS troubled into a mindfuck like LGAT attack "therapy" sessions that are specifically designed to break a kid down.....yanno, for their own good. ::)
Its very clear to his father and anyone else that his time at ASR helped him very much. He moved on to become very productive after leaving ASR. You should read the kids Bio, Anne. I think you sometimes rely too much on what other posters here write.
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John, John, John, here you are yet again playing your games. No your son didn't benefit from his time locked up in ASR. Despite the fact that you refuse to recognize it, he killed himself because of you. He didn't benefit from any of it, and he's only further proof of the ineffectiveness of this industry you love so much.
That being the case it looks like we're back to where we were last week. You have 24 hours to either back up your claims regarding me, or retract them. One minute after and another email goes out. I'll get back to you on who it's going to this week.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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John, John, John, here you are yet again playing your games. No your son didn't benefit from his time locked up in ASR. Despite the fact that you refuse to recognize it, he killed himself because of you. He didn't benefit from any of it, and he's only further proof of the ineffectiveness of this industry you love so much.
That being the case it looks like we're back to where we were last week. You have 24 hours to either back up your claims regarding me, or retract them. One minute after and another email goes out. I'll get back to you on who it's going to this week.
There are people who fly off the handle half cocked and blame programs/parents for children for killing themselves without looking at the whole picture. :D
Whatever the picture is doesnt change the fact that ASR proved in effective for John's son.
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John, John, John, here you are yet again playing your games. No your son didn't benefit from his time locked up in ASR. Despite the fact that you refuse to recognize it, he killed himself because of you. He didn't benefit from any of it, and he's only further proof of the ineffectiveness of this industry you love so much.
That being the case it looks like we're back to where we were last week. You have 24 hours to either back up your claims regarding me, or retract them. One minute after and another email goes out. I'll get back to you on who it's going to this week.
There are people who fly off the handle half cocked and blame programs/parents for children for killing themselves without looking at the whole picture. :D
Whatever the picture is doesnt change the fact that ASR proved in effective for John's son.
Are we not supposed to do this anymore here, why are you talking about another persons son for anyway ( dead son). What ever rational you have is just plain wrong, Robert.
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The conversation already existed upon my arrival. The question was how effective was ASR for John's son. He attempted to claim that it was effective but the fact that he just a few short years later killed himself would suggest otherwise. I was simply pointing out that fact.
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The conversation already existed upon my arrival. The question was how effective was ASR for John's son. He attempted to claim that it was effective but the fact that he just a few short years later killed himself would suggest otherwise. I was simply pointing out that fact.
So what, the conversation already existed. There are a lot of conversations on this site that exist, that are completely despicable, you really want to be associated with a post about a fathers dead son and you were harassing the father.
This whole topic since I have heard about it just makes me sick, I am a parent of a son. God, I would loose my mind if I lost my son never mind hear you harassing me about it.
What difference does it make what Whooter or anyone else said or did not say, you really think this is a humane topic to be harassing them about. Is nothing off limits????? Does it matter if someone did bring it up, that gives you the right to use this info anyway you want. You just have to continuously point out that a fathers son died. All in the effort to make your point.
Just think about it, don't you think this is a bit callous.
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Again, my treatment of John is no different than the treatment he swears by that happens every day to 1000's of kids who are locked up. Forcing him to be accountable for his actions is something he has to accept.
Now the topic at hand is was ASR affective for John's son. What are your thoughts?
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
This marketing spin makes me nauseous. We're talking about HUMAN BEINGS here, John. I know the conscienceless, like yourself, see children as commodities, but this is WAY out of line. You disgust me, sir.
Of course you are nauseous. That is because you are weak and lack foresight like most people. See the problem is you miss the bigger picture. You think small and think problems can be solved by hugging people. People and kids dont need hugs they need solutions, they need to know someone is in control and can make them feel safe. Most parents jump in and try to save their child by getting involved in their lives. But the truth is it is too late at this point to save them by this approach because they have traveled too far down the path. The parents should have been more involved all along. So instead of taking the road everyone else was taking another option was to start a business around the problem. This way you not only get help for your child but you find you are able to raise money for other kids to be placed and after the smoke settles 2 things occur:
1. It doesn’t cost a dime for treatment and
2. You can actually reverse the flow and have a few coins end up back in your pocket to boot.
You need to always keep a level head and look for opportunity when others are panicking. This is key and is the Hallmark of successful people. Whenever something is going terribly bad try to think about how you can profit by it and turn it around into something good. I have always been a firm believer that there exists a silver lining in every situation. It is our jobs to find it and utilize it or someone else will.
As far as trying to find something scientifically proven, that is hogwash. By the time any good set of studies are completed the treatment is outdated and people have moved on to something more "leading edge". Hell they still cant figure out how bees fly but that doesnt prevent us from enjoying the honey.
Confession #2 for the week. whooter now admits he never paid any money to the TTI, but did make money from it. I knew it.
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Whenever something is going terribly bad try to think about how you can profit by it and turn it around into something good.
Just that right there says quite a bit. Sorry Whooter, but if I had a child die, by whatever means, (and that's what we were talking about, whether it's you or somebody else doesn't even matter) my first thought would not be of how I could profit from it. I don't think it would be my one millionth thought. But, I guess that's a fundamental difference between you and I. I wouldn't view my child's death as a business opportunity.
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It takes a heartless and callous profiteer to raise funds off his dead kid while "fabricating" a whole new family to hold out as a "program success story." It's disgusting.
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It takes a heartless and callous profiteer to raise funds off his dead kid while "fabricating" a whole new family to hold out as a "program success story." It's disgusting.
Yup.....and I really do think this is a huge part of why he keeps up so strongly. I wouldn't view my child's death as a business opportunity. He really seems to.
Whenever something is going terribly bad try to think about how you can profit by it and turn it around into something good.
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First off I’d like to say you post a good argument and if you are the same poster on the other threads I agree with you mostly. But I would like to say that I have been reading here awhile and know for a fact that Dysfunction Junction is a good guy at heart. He just gets out of hand sometimes when he loses an argument. He worked in a program years ago and believes them to be abusive but isn’t articulate enough to express what he is feeling so he resorts to violence and name calling when he loses an argument. I saw the post where he wanted to punch you out, but again this is a result of his frustration in lack of communication skills. He has gained credibility here by telling everyone that he is a mental health professional but we all know that professionals in this field don’t resolve their differences through violence and name calling.
Give the guy some space and understand that he is frustrated and angry towards the industry.
He is not a bad guy and is just looking for people to understand what he went thru.
Thank you Peg, I think you nailed him, although, I dont think he is a mental health professional as you stated. He may work in the field but not in a professional capacity which is obvious by the way he handles conflict and communicates. He is just upset because no one wants to meet him in California, the job market is down, most people disagree with him and HLA is coming back under a new name. So, I agree with you that we all need to give him some space to vent and he then he will go back to his job search soon enough.
A friend of my son was this way. He always wanted to settle an argument by hitting people and this carried over into his adult life. To this day he cannot handle it when he is proven wrong or when people disagree with him. Violence is just ingrained in some people. Like I said I dont think this Dysfunction Junction is a bad guy he just doesnt know what to do with his anger or how to properly direct it. It is good to see people like you on here who can keep their cool.
Whoops! Whooter has another son! This one must be the real one. Unless he fabricated two of them.
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Another son, huh? Well well well. What do we have here?
:roflmao:
First off I’d like to say you post a good argument and if you are the same poster on the other threads I agree with you mostly. But I would like to say that I have been reading here awhile and know for a fact that Dysfunction Junction is a good guy at heart. He just gets out of hand sometimes when he loses an argument. He worked in a program years ago and believes them to be abusive but isn’t articulate enough to express what he is feeling so he resorts to violence and name calling when he loses an argument. I saw the post where he wanted to punch you out, but again this is a result of his frustration in lack of communication skills. He has gained credibility here by telling everyone that he is a mental health professional but we all know that professionals in this field don’t resolve their differences through violence and name calling.
Give the guy some space and understand that he is frustrated and angry towards the industry.
He is not a bad guy and is just looking for people to understand what he went thru.
Thank you Peg, I think you nailed him, although, I dont think he is a mental health professional as you stated. He may work in the field but not in a professional capacity which is obvious by the way he handles conflict and communicates. He is just upset because no one wants to meet him in California, the job market is down, most people disagree with him and HLA is coming back under a new name. So, I agree with you that we all need to give him some space to vent and he then he will go back to his job search soon enough.
A friend of my son was this way. He always wanted to settle an argument by hitting people and this carried over into his adult life. To this day he cannot handle it when he is proven wrong or when people disagree with him. Violence is just ingrained in some people. Like I said I dont think this Dysfunction Junction is a bad guy he just doesnt know what to do with his anger or how to properly direct it. It is good to see people like you on here who can keep their cool.
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Another son, huh? Well well well. What do we have here?
:roflmao:
First off I’d like to say you post a good argument and if you are the same poster on the other threads I agree with you mostly. But I would like to say that I have been reading here awhile and know for a fact that Dysfunction Junction is a good guy at heart. He just gets out of hand sometimes when he loses an argument. He worked in a program years ago and believes them to be abusive but isn’t articulate enough to express what he is feeling so he resorts to violence and name calling when he loses an argument. I saw the post where he wanted to punch you out, but again this is a result of his frustration in lack of communication skills. He has gained credibility here by telling everyone that he is a mental health professional but we all know that professionals in this field don’t resolve their differences through violence and name calling.
Give the guy some space and understand that he is frustrated and angry towards the industry.
He is not a bad guy and is just looking for people to understand what he went thru.
Thank you Peg, I think you nailed him, although, I dont think he is a mental health professional as you stated. He may work in the field but not in a professional capacity which is obvious by the way he handles conflict and communicates. He is just upset because no one wants to meet him in California, the job market is down, most people disagree with him and HLA is coming back under a new name. So, I agree with you that we all need to give him some space to vent and he then he will go back to his job search soon enough.
A friend of my son was this way. He always wanted to settle an argument by hitting people and this carried over into his adult life. To this day he cannot handle it when he is proven wrong or when people disagree with him. Violence is just ingrained in some people. Like I said I dont think this Dysfunction Junction is a bad guy he just doesnt know what to do with his anger or how to properly direct it. It is good to see people like you on here who can keep their cool.
It appears to be another child; a son. We're not sure yet if it is a flesh and blood child or another fabricated one.
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Another son, huh? Well well well. What do we have here?
:roflmao:
First off I’d like to say you post a good argument and if you are the same poster on the other threads I agree with you mostly. But I would like to say that I have been reading here awhile and know for a fact that Dysfunction Junction is a good guy at heart. He just gets out of hand sometimes when he loses an argument. He worked in a program years ago and believes them to be abusive but isn’t articulate enough to express what he is feeling so he resorts to violence and name calling when he loses an argument. I saw the post where he wanted to punch you out, but again this is a result of his frustration in lack of communication skills. He has gained credibility here by telling everyone that he is a mental health professional but we all know that professionals in this field don’t resolve their differences through violence and name calling.
Give the guy some space and understand that he is frustrated and angry towards the industry.
He is not a bad guy and is just looking for people to understand what he went thru.
Thank you Peg, I think you nailed him, although, I dont think he is a mental health professional as you stated. He may work in the field but not in a professional capacity which is obvious by the way he handles conflict and communicates. He is just upset because no one wants to meet him in California, the job market is down, most people disagree with him and HLA is coming back under a new name. So, I agree with you that we all need to give him some space to vent and he then he will go back to his job search soon enough.
A friend of my son was this way. He always wanted to settle an argument by hitting people and this carried over into his adult life. To this day he cannot handle it when he is proven wrong or when people disagree with him. Violence is just ingrained in some people. Like I said I dont think this Dysfunction Junction is a bad guy he just doesnt know what to do with his anger or how to properly direct it. It is good to see people like you on here who can keep their cool.
Just more lies and fabrications from Whooter.
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"In 2004, when I found out Michael had drug problems, I founded Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative to help disadvantaged youths participate in programs too expensive for them."
John, when you discovered Mike had a drug problem, instead of founding STICC to help other kids, you should have supported your son by getting him medically-based treatment for his drug problem. Why would anyone faced with this situation start a business instead of focusing on their own child's problem? Don't you see that your refusal to get directly involved in Mike's life is what drove him to drugs in the first place? Then your solution to this was to have him locked up instead of put into scientifically proven therapy?
John, is this one of the "STICCy results that last a lifetime"? I guess it is if "lifetime" means "22 years."
This marketing spin makes me nauseous. We're talking about HUMAN BEINGS here, John. I know the conscienceless, like yourself, see children as commodities, but this is WAY out of line. You disgust me, sir.
Of course you are nauseous. That is because you are weak and lack foresight like most people. See the problem is you miss the bigger picture. You think small and think problems can be solved by hugging people. People and kids dont need hugs they need solutions, they need to know someone is in control and can make them feel safe. Most parents jump in and try to save their child by getting involved in their lives. But the truth is it is too late at this point to save them by this approach because they have traveled too far down the path. The parents should have been more involved all along. So instead of taking the road everyone else was taking another option was to start a business around the problem. This way you not only get help for your child but you find you are able to raise money for other kids to be placed and after the smoke settles 2 things occur:
1. It doesn’t cost a dime for treatment and
2. You can actually reverse the flow and have a few coins end up back in your pocket to boot.
You need to always keep a level head and look for opportunity when others are panicking. This is key and is the Hallmark of successful people. Whenever something is going terribly bad try to think about how you can profit by it and turn it around into something good. I have always been a firm believer that there exists a silver lining in every situation. It is our jobs to find it and utilize it or someone else will.
As far as trying to find something scientifically proven, that is hogwash. By the time any good set of studies are completed the treatment is outdated and people have moved on to something more "leading edge". Hell they still cant figure out how bees fly but that doesnt prevent us from enjoying the honey.
Let's be honest, people. These programs are very profitable. Why you get upset that I make money is beyond me. I don't begrudge you your living. lol Your lives went down the toilet and made programs necessary. Just because I choose to turn that need into a great living doesn't give you the right to lie about me all the time.
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