Fornits

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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Perhaps I have been going about a couple things wrong. My intention is not to be an apologist. My heart is aimed at presenting the truth. let me state beforehand that there are two people who I have been focusing one, you and Michael Kincheloe. Michael, I believe, is not so much focused on exposing a corrupt program as he is at sticking his middle finger up at the staff of Southern California Teen Challenge. I base this not only on his topix.net discussions and those he has engaged on here, but on some of the other things he has engaged in which I prefer not to mention. Suffice it to say, in my opinion, he represents a segment of students who have failed in TC and feel a need to excuse their own behavior and failure... but you... you are somewhat of an anomaly to me. For some reason I am inclined to think you have your own personal reasons and you are probably a decent person who wants to help people...so here is my proposition...

Not a debate, but a discussion.I openly talk about the sores as well as the successes of Teen Challenge with you. And Yes--there are sores, some of which Michael has exposed, although only for his selfish reasons, some which he knows nothing about. Let me offer the olive branch first by saying--I left Teen Challenge angry and bitter. Furthermore, I have not attended a church regularly since leaving Teen Challenge. Teen Challenge would have difficulty categorizing me a success or failure. I have your curiosity, don't I?

I'll add more. We can talk about directors who have fallen, we can talk about scandals, we can talk about anything you want to. We can talk about the reasons I left. I am dying to discuss that. We can talk about whatever you want. And then we can talk about why, after it all, I would still endorse this program and would donate to it, as well as believe wholeheartedly in the effectiveness of it.

Let me also state that I have not been involved with or talked to anyone in the Teen Challenge program since June of 2000. The only thing I ask is that you and I be the only ones to respond to this and that anyone else who has comments or questions would pm one of us to add as part of the discussion. This is simply to keep us on topic and avoid confusion.... I would ask everyone to respect that request.



I wonder.....would you have this conversation

How do you know he doesn't know you if you won't post your name? Seems like a small thing to ask. What are you afraid of?  :question:

Just wondering.

I was gone from teen challenge for 3 years before Michael entered the program. By the time he came around only staff members would have known me. Michael already posted the personal phone number of some poor shmuck he thought was me, showing his immaturity. I could only imagine all of the stupid things he would do if he had my name. So, no, he will not be getting that. Besides, it's driving him crazy.

Point proven!  YOU NEED YOUR HEAD EXAMINED!!!

I think it's really cool the way you avoid my argument.

You call Teen Challenge's 12-18 month stay "temporary" custody?  You need your head examined!

Uh, yes, 12 to 18 months out of a lifetime of 70 to 80 years would be considered temporary. But, that's not my point. My point is that any time a parent turns their hild over to any agency, whether it be a school for a field trip , summer camp, 6th grade camp, little league baseball or 8th grade washington DC trip, they must sign a parental release form virtually just like that one.

Here is the history of Teen Challenge and Bush's faith based initiative. It is an interview with the very man who advised Bush about this when he was governor of Texas. Also notice that, despite claims by some of the anti-tc ranters, Teen Challenge does not qualify for funding under the Faith based initiative.

http://www.religionandsocialpolicy.org/ ... de=general

Obviously, Karly is not a parent.  If she were, she would know that parental liability release forms are used by every school in the country when your kid is going to be taken on a field trip. They are used by summer camps, church youth groups going on mission trips, basically any organization that would have to take temporary custody of your child for any reason.

NO, Michael, you are wrong. Call the number. This is laughable. I shouldn't be surprised, tho. You did put a couple quotes form me, but for some reason have me as posting from downey or Irvine. The others are absolutely not me. I've never lived in Seal Beach, I've never worked in Downey or Riverside. Sorry, Bud. I live in Anaheim. Can we get back to the topic?

I'm the one who asked you to clarify about a staff member threatening to kick your ass, in your own words.
I asked a few other questions and rather than answer them, you ran away. I believe you are dishonest and a fraud. Otherwise, you would address those questions.

Here is a link to a Teen Challenge FAQ available on the website of the Rehresburg, Pennsylvania facility. Rehresberg is the central TC facility in the country. It is where most people on the east coast will probably find themselves for the phase 3 of the Teen Challenge program. It answers someof the questions some of you have.
http://www.teenchallengetc.com/resource ... tm#Scene_1

Buzzkill, I understand where you're coming from. In fact, I can't say I've seen anything in any of your posts I would disagree with. See, I believe that some of the ones here who would call TC a cult use the synanon model as a comparison and in their minds they read everything I write with that preconception in mind.

When I was trying to decide what program was best for me, I was seeking advice from my parole officer. He was a big fan of the Phoenix House--which is a Synanon based program. In fact Phoenix House had come to interview me over a year before when I was facing my third state prison sentence and was hoping to get in a program ( of course, the state parole board ruled that out in very heated morrissey hearing).

I already knew Phoenix House's reputation as a tough, hardcore program, but the interviewer wanted to talk about beach trips( later I learned that they get everyone excited for these trips, then cancel at the last minute as some attempt to help them deal with disappointment, bure bs i fyou ask me), their vocational programs--decent careers actually, like offset printing, and the assurance that they wouldn't fail me because they would require me to have my own apartment for a year, be fully employed and have at least $2000 in the bank before I graduated. No mention at all of the hot seat sessions, the degradation techniques meant to break you, like forcing a disobedient student to wear a toilet seat around there head. No mention at all of the first 90 days of the Phoenix House model.

My parole officer, however, had sat on their board before and was a strong advocate. He explained to me the model--the first 90 days was dedicated to completely breaking you down and the following 21 months was dedicated to rebuilding you into a typical briefcase carrying robot model. I interviewed with Phoenix House in Santa Ana and told them about my jail interview. This interview was quite different---The lady would calmly ask me a question about my drug history and every answer I gave would be met with her yelling at me " what's wrong with you" or "when will you learn". She was basically gauging my reactions. My parole officer had told me of this stuff, so I tried my best to answer as humbly as possible and to express my desperation---and I was desperate. I had spent my life abusing every drug imaginable and had become a hype shooting meth in my veins and my mind had long succumbed to speed psychosis. I was very scared that I had gone too far and that my mind may not make it back this time. I was in a very vulnerable state and Phoenix House had the reputation for being extremely successful for those who actually finish it. I was also uneasy by a program that I felt would try to rob me of my identity. I also worried that I wouldn't be able to make it thru that first 90 days without stringing a staffmember up by their nuts--I was an ex-con who had committed all sorts of violence and had a fairly uncontrollable temper.

The tale of how I found out about Teen Challenge was quite interesting and would amaze most Christians at God's power, but the average person here would doubt it, call me a liar and laugh. But let me just leave it with this--there was about a 30 day period where it seemed there was a conspiracy coming at me from all different angles pointing me toward Teen Challenge. So while I was waiting for Phoenix House to call back, I went to a Turning Point meeting, This is where TC usually conducts interviews.

 I sat thru a Bible study and was pretty impressed with this guy conducting it. He was just this friendly guy who told us about how God had changed him from his former life of addiction. Afterwards I asked to be interviewed and he explained ot me what Teen Challenge was about. He pulled no punches on what they expected and gave me an application as well as a full physical form to be signed by a doctor before I could be admitted. To make a long story short I chose Teen Challenge.

My experience at Teen Challenge was nothing like what the Phoenix House would have been. There was no tearing me down model and rebuilding me. There was no group therapy session where everyone would tear into me. Counselling was one on one and only used to gauge my progress and help me thru any struggles I was having ( at my request). This progam was not centered around a model of counselling. From the get-go it was about Discipleship in the Christian faith. Picture daily Sunday School and you'll get the idea.

Staff members eschewed the role model philosophy of Synanon as well, telling the students not to follow them, but to follow God, because they would most assuredly let you down. This was a very common TC theme thruout Teen Challenge. Oh I came across staff members and especially interns who were hot-headed. Never once did I ever in over 7 years involvement see a staffmember threaten violence or act in a threatening manner to a student, tho. That is grounds for dismissal and in another discussion i asked Michael Kincheloe aboout some of the charges he made regarding that and whether or not he reported the staffmember for threatening him and he refused to answer the question--puzzling since every student in TC knows that such behaior by staff is unacceptable.

Teen Challenge did not try to turn me into a robot like Phoenix House felt like it would. Teen Challenge did not degrade or use any abusive techniques to rehabilitate me. As someone who went thru extensive staff training and served as staff for 5 years, I can tell you that kind of stuff is strictly frowned on. Teen Challenge did not self-aggrandize, there were no instances i nall of my years with TC where they tried to convince people that TC was the only chance they had--TC instead puts that responsibility on God's shoulders. TC does not encourage people to stay indefinitely and join their communal fellowship. They encourage people to get out of the progam and get involve din theor local churches and live productive lives. There is a big focus on following God's call on your life, but they do not attempt to tell you what God is calling you to do. They leave that between you and God. Their concern is simply that you follow His desire for your life.