Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.

Messages - Firebird81

Pages: [1] 2 3
Teen Challenge / So, Karly....
« on: May 18, 2007, 02:42:25 AM »
Perhaps I have been going about a couple things wrong. My intention is not to be an apologist. My heart is aimed at presenting the truth. let me state beforehand that there are two people who I have been focusing one, you and Michael Kincheloe. Michael, I believe, is not so much focused on exposing a corrupt program as he is at sticking his middle finger up at the staff of Southern California Teen Challenge. I base this not only on his discussions and those he has engaged on here, but on some of the other things he has engaged in which I prefer not to mention. Suffice it to say, in my opinion, he represents a segment of students who have failed in TC and feel a need to excuse their own behavior and failure... but you... you are somewhat of an anomaly to me. For some reason I am inclined to think you have your own personal reasons and you are probably a decent person who wants to help here is my proposition...

Not a debate, but a discussion.I openly talk about the sores as well as the successes of Teen Challenge with you. And Yes--there are sores, some of which Michael has exposed, although only for his selfish reasons, some which he knows nothing about. Let me offer the olive branch first by saying--I left Teen Challenge angry and bitter. Furthermore, I have not attended a church regularly since leaving Teen Challenge. Teen Challenge would have difficulty categorizing me a success or failure. I have your curiosity, don't I?

I'll add more. We can talk about directors who have fallen, we can talk about scandals, we can talk about anything you want to. We can talk about the reasons I left. I am dying to discuss that. We can talk about whatever you want. And then we can talk about why, after it all, I would still endorse this program and would donate to it, as well as believe wholeheartedly in the effectiveness of it.

Let me also state that I have not been involved with or talked to anyone in the Teen Challenge program since June of 2000. The only thing I ask is that you and I be the only ones to respond to this and that anyone else who has comments or questions would pm one of us to add as part of the discussion. This is simply to keep us on topic and avoid confusion.... I would ask everyone to respect that request.

I wonder.....would you have this conversation

Teen Challenge / Teen Challenge and the Better Business Bureau
« on: May 16, 2007, 09:35:23 PM »
Debrah, actually, that is wrong. The BBB reports on individual businesses. Each Teen Challenge center is an individual business. If they were meaning it to apply to the entire organization, then they would put it unanimously on every center's report. Instead, most of the centers are reported as satisfactorily meeting the standards of the BBB and some are listed as members. Only 31 centers are actually listed there, which is interesting since there are about 200 in the U.S. alone. I do know that LATC, OCTC and Riverside Teen Challenge all had BBB membership plaques on their walls, yet none of them are even listed at all. Perhaps the webist isn't all conclusive or only reports on businesses that people have specifically requested.

I also know that on the walls of LATC were commendations given by the City of Los Angeles and the State of California. Teen Challenge is also a member of the ECFA, which is a Christian financial accountability organization that reports on Religious charities. You cna go to the link below to see the ECFA's website, it's listed standards of compliance and information on any numbe rof religious charities, including Teen Challenge.

Quote from: ""Growler Sandue""
How do you know he doesn't know you if you won't post your name? Seems like a small thing to ask. What are you afraid of?  :question:

Just wondering.

I was gone from teen challenge for 3 years before Michael entered the program. By the time he came around only staff members would have known me. Michael already posted the personal phone number of some poor shmuck he thought was me, showing his immaturity. I could only imagine all of the stupid things he would do if he had my name. So, no, he will not be getting that. Besides, it's driving him crazy.

Quote from: ""Michael Kincheloe""
A man who hides for a year in a program to avoid a year in county jail isn't tough.

He's smart. A man who is afraid to post his real name when challenged to do so is a coward.

What is your obsession with my name? I already told you, you don't know me.

Keep puffing your chest up, Michael. Every post you make I see exactly the person I first thought you were. I fyou were going to spit in someone's face you would have done it when they offended you. You are nothing but an immature little boy hiding in a man's body.

Yes, you are a fraud. You entered a program under fraudulent circumstances, remained in that program under fraudulent circumstances, had no intention of trying that program, just used it to stay out of jail ( like all tough guys, do, right, Michael?), celebrated completing it by getting drunk, and then 3 years later created a website to attack that program, declaring that it doesn't work because you got drunk the first day afterward, when you had no intention of quitting to begin with. You then presented yourself as representing all fo the people who had suffered at the hands of that program, as if you had an S on your chest.  You are a fraud.

I asked you a number of questions on your thread and you ran. You have yet to answer those questions. When I asked them over there you reacted the same way you have here. You puffed out your chest and screamed insults. "we're playing by MY rules now". Isn't that what you said? You can't stand being challenged without resorting to empty threats. AM I to believe you spent an entire year with people in your face threatening violence and worse and just took it? Like I said--a fraud.

Quote from: ""Karly""

I think it's really cool the way you avoid my argument.

Quote from: ""Michael Kincheloe""
You think I'm dishonest and a fraud? Whao cares what you think? Fuck you and the slut you're married to.

What good would it have done to tell someone what Randy said my very first week at Shafter? It was just he and I; there were no witnesses. I didn't even know who Rod Tidwell was until I was at fire camp a month later, when pinche bruja Christie Luna said "Rod Tidwell said hello." Who is that? "He's the director." Oh. I thought Ruben Heredia was the director. Rod wasn't involved in the day-to-day activities, just as Dennis Griffith was rarely seen at Riverside.  

I ran? From your punk ass? I ignored you. I don't have to answer shit to a take-it-in-the-ass punk bitch like you. If you want to call me a liar and a fraud to my face, look me up in the Visalia directory and name the time and place. If you want to talk to someone at Teen Challenge who knew me, talk to Stan Williams. He knew Ahmed Morris and detested him; no other staff members liked him either, because he bullied others while hiding behind the skirts of Teen Challenge. You can bet if I saw him on the street he'd be really nice to me, but I'd spit in face and call him a cocksucker, and it'd be on.

Sadly, I am not the least bit surprised by your juvenile outburst. It's also becoming very clear exactly why you had problems in Teen Challenge. No ,you don't have to answer any of my questions, but here's a little news flash for you. When you choose to use a public forum to voice an opinion, then you should not only expect people to challenge that opinion, you should be prepared to back it up. If you instead resort to name calling and threats, then you merely come off looking like you were full of it the entire time. So, it's your choice, Michael. Because I am not going to let up.

Concerning Randy threatening you, are you trying to tell me that a college educated individual like yourself isn't intelligent enough to know there's something wrong with that and it should be reported? If he had threatened you, he would have been dismissed. And you owed it to anyone else who he might harm or threaten in the future to expose it when it happened.

I will repost all of my questions again. If your positions hold any weight, you will back them up. And don't try to act like a tough guy, Michael. A man who hides for a year in a program to avoid a year in county jail isn't tough.

Quote from: ""Karly""
You call Teen Challenge's 12-18 month stay "temporary" custody?  You need your head examined!

Uh, yes, 12 to 18 months out of a lifetime of 70 to 80 years would be considered temporary. But, that's not my point. My point is that any time a parent turns their hild over to any agency, whether it be a school for a field trip , summer camp, 6th grade camp, little league baseball or 8th grade washington DC trip, they must sign a parental release form virtually just like that one.

I think I just realized why you ran? You thought I was someone who knew you, didn't you?

Teen Challenge / Teen Challenge and the faith based initiative.
« on: May 14, 2007, 02:21:47 PM »
Here is the history of Teen Challenge and Bush's faith based initiative. It is an interview with the very man who advised Bush about this when he was governor of Texas. Also notice that, despite claims by some of the anti-tc ranters, Teen Challenge does not qualify for funding under the Faith based initiative. ... de=general

Teen Challenge / Teen Challenge and the Better Business Bureau
« on: May 14, 2007, 02:19:30 PM »
for which center is that, deborah? Also, look at he number of complaints filed with the BBB against that center.

Obviously, Karly is not a parent.  If she were, she would know that parental liability release forms are used by every school in the country when your kid is going to be taken on a field trip. They are used by summer camps, church youth groups going on mission trips, basically any organization that would have to take temporary custody of your child for any reason.

Teen Challenge / Teen Challenge and the Better Business Bureau
« on: May 14, 2007, 11:40:57 AM »
Here is another falsehood on Karly's blog concerning Teen Challenge. She shows a BBB report for Teen Challenge that says teh better Business Bureau recommends investigating this chairty before giving. What she DOESN'T tell you is that she cherry-picked The Teen Challenge headquarters in Springfield, Missouri, completely ignoring the entire list of Teen Challenges the BBB shows on their website who ARE members in good standing  of the Better Business Bureau.

But the question begs, why would the headquarters NOT be a member and why the report? The headqaurters of Teen Challenge are simply adminstrative offices. No one is treated there and there is no Teen Challenge center there. They do not solicit donations, so they had no need to return the questionnaire from the Better Business Bureau, hence the warning.

If you are considering giving to Teen Challenge, since that is the only purpose the BBB report is meant to address, then by all means go to the BBB's website and look up the local center you are thinking about giving to. If you are an addict or family member considering using TC for help, then you should call your local center and ask them all of the tough questions you have to address your concerns. But, please do not by any means put any creedence whatosever into some weblog or anti-TC rant page purporting to warn you of the dangers of TC. Anyone can put up a blog or website and say anything they want. And they can be grinding whatever axe they see fit. That does not make it true. Research for yourself.

NO, Michael, you are wrong. Call the number. This is laughable. I shouldn't be surprised, tho. You did put a couple quotes form me, but for some reason have me as posting from downey or Irvine. The others are absolutely not me. I've never lived in Seal Beach, I've never worked in Downey or Riverside. Sorry, Bud. I live in Anaheim. Can we get back to the topic?

I'm the one who asked you to clarify about a staff member threatening to kick your ass, in your own words.
I asked a few other questions and rather than answer them, you ran away. I believe you are dishonest and a fraud. Otherwise, you would address those questions.

Quote from: ""Michael Kincheloe""
Firebird81's real name is Matthew Dau. He lives in Seal Beach.

Here's his picture: ... 01098l.jpg

I'm who?? Sorry to disappoint, you, Michael, but you do not know me.

Here is a link to a Teen Challenge FAQ available on the website of the Rehresburg, Pennsylvania facility. Rehresberg is the central TC facility in the country. It is where most people on the east coast will probably find themselves for the phase 3 of the Teen Challenge program. It answers someof the questions some of you have. ... tm#Scene_1

Buzzkill, I understand where you're coming from. In fact, I can't say I've seen anything in any of your posts I would disagree with. See, I believe that some of the ones here who would call TC a cult use the synanon model as a comparison and in their minds they read everything I write with that preconception in mind.

When I was trying to decide what program was best for me, I was seeking advice from my parole officer. He was a big fan of the Phoenix House--which is a Synanon based program. In fact Phoenix House had come to interview me over a year before when I was facing my third state prison sentence and was hoping to get in a program ( of course, the state parole board ruled that out in very heated morrissey hearing).

I already knew Phoenix House's reputation as a tough, hardcore program, but the interviewer wanted to talk about beach trips( later I learned that they get everyone excited for these trips, then cancel at the last minute as some attempt to help them deal with disappointment, bure bs i fyou ask me), their vocational programs--decent careers actually, like offset printing, and the assurance that they wouldn't fail me because they would require me to have my own apartment for a year, be fully employed and have at least $2000 in the bank before I graduated. No mention at all of the hot seat sessions, the degradation techniques meant to break you, like forcing a disobedient student to wear a toilet seat around there head. No mention at all of the first 90 days of the Phoenix House model.

My parole officer, however, had sat on their board before and was a strong advocate. He explained to me the model--the first 90 days was dedicated to completely breaking you down and the following 21 months was dedicated to rebuilding you into a typical briefcase carrying robot model. I interviewed with Phoenix House in Santa Ana and told them about my jail interview. This interview was quite different---The lady would calmly ask me a question about my drug history and every answer I gave would be met with her yelling at me " what's wrong with you" or "when will you learn". She was basically gauging my reactions. My parole officer had told me of this stuff, so I tried my best to answer as humbly as possible and to express my desperation---and I was desperate. I had spent my life abusing every drug imaginable and had become a hype shooting meth in my veins and my mind had long succumbed to speed psychosis. I was very scared that I had gone too far and that my mind may not make it back this time. I was in a very vulnerable state and Phoenix House had the reputation for being extremely successful for those who actually finish it. I was also uneasy by a program that I felt would try to rob me of my identity. I also worried that I wouldn't be able to make it thru that first 90 days without stringing a staffmember up by their nuts--I was an ex-con who had committed all sorts of violence and had a fairly uncontrollable temper.

The tale of how I found out about Teen Challenge was quite interesting and would amaze most Christians at God's power, but the average person here would doubt it, call me a liar and laugh. But let me just leave it with this--there was about a 30 day period where it seemed there was a conspiracy coming at me from all different angles pointing me toward Teen Challenge. So while I was waiting for Phoenix House to call back, I went to a Turning Point meeting, This is where TC usually conducts interviews.

 I sat thru a Bible study and was pretty impressed with this guy conducting it. He was just this friendly guy who told us about how God had changed him from his former life of addiction. Afterwards I asked to be interviewed and he explained ot me what Teen Challenge was about. He pulled no punches on what they expected and gave me an application as well as a full physical form to be signed by a doctor before I could be admitted. To make a long story short I chose Teen Challenge.

My experience at Teen Challenge was nothing like what the Phoenix House would have been. There was no tearing me down model and rebuilding me. There was no group therapy session where everyone would tear into me. Counselling was one on one and only used to gauge my progress and help me thru any struggles I was having ( at my request). This progam was not centered around a model of counselling. From the get-go it was about Discipleship in the Christian faith. Picture daily Sunday School and you'll get the idea.

Staff members eschewed the role model philosophy of Synanon as well, telling the students not to follow them, but to follow God, because they would most assuredly let you down. This was a very common TC theme thruout Teen Challenge. Oh I came across staff members and especially interns who were hot-headed. Never once did I ever in over 7 years involvement see a staffmember threaten violence or act in a threatening manner to a student, tho. That is grounds for dismissal and in another discussion i asked Michael Kincheloe aboout some of the charges he made regarding that and whether or not he reported the staffmember for threatening him and he refused to answer the question--puzzling since every student in TC knows that such behaior by staff is unacceptable.

Teen Challenge did not try to turn me into a robot like Phoenix House felt like it would. Teen Challenge did not degrade or use any abusive techniques to rehabilitate me. As someone who went thru extensive staff training and served as staff for 5 years, I can tell you that kind of stuff is strictly frowned on. Teen Challenge did not self-aggrandize, there were no instances i nall of my years with TC where they tried to convince people that TC was the only chance they had--TC instead puts that responsibility on God's shoulders. TC does not encourage people to stay indefinitely and join their communal fellowship. They encourage people to get out of the progam and get involve din theor local churches and live productive lives. There is a big focus on following God's call on your life, but they do not attempt to tell you what God is calling you to do. They leave that between you and God. Their concern is simply that you follow His desire for your life.

Pages: [1] 2 3