Fornits

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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Quote from: ""Dad Trying""

Well, I guess Ombudsman school is out of the running. He would be around a lot of (maybe all) bad kids there

That's called "his peer group".

That's what I'm trying to change.

Vexing dad, this is really interesting. It really is hard to tell the difference between satire and spontaneous lunacy sometimes. My opinion? Honestly, I'd have to flip a coin. If this is a troll, 10 stars on a scale of 1-5.

If not, all I can say is that you're being absolutely hysterical about the pot and friends. Now it may be true that I was a 17yo escapee from a drug rehab (well, except the part about it being an entirely bogus rehab), but I'm also a mother of three, the eldest being 22. I don't have to hypothesize or conjecture about what I would do in your shoes. I know. I did some things right and some things way, way wrong. First of all, let's talk about the friends. I hated this one chick! Well, hate is too strong a word. But I thought she was petty and shallow and mean spirited. Boy, was I WRONG! Thank God my daughter passed on my advice in that instance. This kid stuck by my daughter through thick and think up to a point far beyond where the rest of her friends lost patience with her.

She lost that friend due to a boyfriend. One girl's bf jumped the other's, there was a mob and gangs and weapons, cops, agrivated assault charges, permanent injury and PTSD symptoms. And my darlin daughter had to choose. I so wish I could turn back time and delete all of those many, many instances when I tried various kinds of prohibition and coercion to try and get this girl to see the little weezle for what he was. Maybe she wouldn't have dug her heels in so hard, maybe things would have been different. As it was, never saw my daughter and hardly spoke with her, except over the phone while Psycho Boy was in jail, from the time of the trial till a couple of years later when she finally decided to take up that bus ticket I had held out for her to come home (follow the family, actually, to another state) Maybe if I hadn't been trying to force my conclusions on her so hard she wouldn't have been fighting me off and she might have reached her final conclusion a good deal more quickly.

But, it's your life, your kid, what the hell do we know?

Do you really think pot smoking is more dangerous than forced indoctrination? Do you really? Well, if so, you're wrong and that's all there is to it. Roughly half of all Americans have been reliably copping to having smoked pot in high school since we started surveying them on the topic in the very early `70's. The vast majority of those I know personally who have significant mental and emotional issues went through the program.

I'm not a fundamentalist prude. When my son's therapist mentioned that most kids experiment with alcohol and/or pot I told her that I wouldn't be that concerned if all he did was smoke a joint on the weekends at a friend's house, but kept up his grades and otherwise held it together. That's not the situation here. Look back at my original post. His first "bad" friend was the one who got him into smoking pot and he got into it heavily. At the time we put him into a short-term inpatient program, his next step would have been dealing pot. We decided to get more concentrated help for him mainly for his underlying emotional problems rather than the drug abuse.

I understand what you're saying about kids wanting to do the opposite of what their parents tell them. I can see his 'contra' attitude even with little things. I even had started using a little reverse psychology on him. However, I can't say, "smoke all the pot you want," or "hang out with drug dealers." In our family group session I noticed the therapist using the Socratic method with him rather than giving him advice or rules to follow. Giving him information and then asking him questions and letting him figure out the answers for himself seems to be the best method to use to teach him.

My wife is determined to use the 'grab the bull by the horns' method. She is adament that he won't return to public school this year. This has been very hard on her because she has a brother who started using pot at an early age and went on to other drugs. He is currently a divorced 35 year old father of 3 and a meth addict. My wife paid his child support payments for two months while he went to a men's Christian Rehab Center. He gave a good speech the day he got out of that rehab saying he was free from drugs. He was using again within a week. My wife has been on our son like white on rice because of her brother's history with drugs. At our family therapy session my son said his mom disgusts him and he kept his hand up to the side of his face so he wouldn't have to look at her. But, she was right about his drug use. She knew the signs.

Quote from: ""Dad Trying""

Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""

Really please take this next line personally.

It is in regards to his loser friends comment.


But honestly go fuck yourself.

You are 100 percent your child's problem. Get your head out of your ass. Stop beating your son into submission, and start cherishing the things he is good at. You after all taught him to act the way he does, now start using positive praise to bring him along in a positive direction.

Only a total asshole has the mox to call kids losers. I'm a total asshole. I enjoy being a total asshole. Yet even I refuse to call kid's losers. Got no problem with calling parents losers.


I sure as hell hope to christ you aren't saying that crap around your son, or anyone else in the world. No one needs to be subjected to that sort of verbal abuse. Not only do you confess to beating him into submission you refer to his friends as losers. What do you think your son thinks he is in your eyes then?

I'm all about helping parents. But you have absolutely no right to be a parent if you continue your prevailing attitude. Find a relative who can do your job for you. Do what is right for your son and let someone else unravel the damage you keep inflicting on your child.

I've had it with YOU. You think "friends" who sell my son pot and cigs at school and encourage him to skip class are "good" friends?

I'm calling "ASSHOLE" on you.

Sorry, everyone else.

I think both of you have valid points.  TSW, is an asshole... but I don't necessarily thinking you should be calling your kid's friends "losers"...  what would some other parents say about your kid?

Besides.  Kids who are called "losers", become "losers".  Why?  If you have a bad rap you might as well make it fit.

What does your son see them as?  If your son sees them as friends...  That's hard to change.  The more control you try to exert over him regarding his friends, the more you will make him want to hang around with them.  He's at a stage in his life when he is trying to assert his independance/identity... and teens don't always do that in the best way.

My advice... and i don't expect you to take it:  Try and guide, rather than control him.

psy,

I agree with that. I don't call them losers around him. When I talk about them to him, I describe them......"I don't like you hanging around people who sell pot, etc." I think he likes the excitement. He had a good friend before who came over to the house, went to movies with him, etc. Now he says that kid is boring. Actually, he had 3 decent friends before. So it's not like he HAD to find friends. I know that teens need friends to hang with at school and elsewhere.

Really please take this next line personally.

It is in regards to his loser friends comment.


But honestly go fuck yourself.

You are 100 percent your child's problem. Get your head out of your ass. Stop beating your son into submission, and start cherishing the things he is good at. You after all taught him to act the way he does, now start using positive praise to bring him along in a positive direction.

Only a total asshole has the mox to call kids losers. I'm a total asshole. I enjoy being a total asshole. Yet even I refuse to call kid's losers. Got no problem with calling parents losers.


I sure as hell hope to christ you aren't saying that crap around your son, or anyone else in the world. No one needs to be subjected to that sort of verbal abuse. Not only do you confess to beating him into submission you refer to his friends as losers. What do you think your son thinks he is in your eyes then?

I'm all about helping parents. But you have absolutely no right to be a parent if you continue your prevailing attitude. Find a relative who can do your job for you. Do what is right for your son and let someone else unravel the damage you keep inflicting on your child.

I've had it with YOU. You think "friends" who sell my son pot and cigs at school and encourage him to skip class are "good" friends?

I'm calling "ASSHOLE" on you.

Sorry, everyone else.

Quote from: ""Dad Trying""

His interests are guitar and his loser friends.

As well as masturbating and watching his parents have sex through the hole he drilled in ceiling. He's good with the electronical stuff. Being a young lad, watching your parent fornicate, is there anything better?

Well then, he's been disappointed lately. His antics have put a lot of stress on me and mom. lol

PS, it's not fornication when you're married.

Quote from: ""Truth Searcher""

Quote

went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch

Dad~

I have to seriously disagree with psy's advise on this matter.  This is abuse ... pure and simple.  NO ONE has the right to "pummel" someone else for ANY reason.

You are sending your son the message that physical violence is an appropriate method of expressing his emotions.  That it is OK to punch a human being when he doesn't get his way.

Someday, he will take that lesson to his marriage.  When his wife does not give in to his protestations and emotional manipulations, he will resort to making her his human punching bag.

Perhaps someday when he is confronted by a boss, he will resort to physical violence to make his point.

Or God forbid, someday when he has a child of his own he will resort to punching when he has no better anger management skill.

You are not teaching your son to be responsible.  You are not teaching him to respect others.  You are not teaching him to manage his anger effectively.

Violence is always wrong.  ALWAYS.  Next time call 911 and let him suffer the real life consequences of pummeling someone.


PSY ~ I usually respect your perspectives, but you're way off on this one.  If my husband was frustrated with me for something would you honestly advise me to just let him haul off and pummel me?  Or would you begin to show me that this constitutes spousal abuse?  I think we both know the answer to that question.

Read why i suggested it before condemning me.  Would you rather he did what he did before: pummel the kid back!?!?  That didn't work.  At least here, the kid admitted he didn't feel good about it.  Pummeling him back would make him feel justified and further the conflict.  He might feel it's ok to attack his father since he fights back.  Violence is ended when one party refuses to participate in it.  Period.  I'm not a Christian but there is a lot of wisdom in "turn the other cheek (offer him the other)"  The father chose not to respond, and the kid felt bad about hitting him.  From now on, if he attacks his father, he will do so dishonorably, by attacking a defenseless target.

The point is to make the kid feel shame.  The point is for the kid to look at his father ignoring his blows and say to himself "could i do that, do i have the strength?"...  The point is to make the kid realize that he hurt somebody else.  Read my original advice before condemning me.

I aggree the kid probably needs anger management, but kids learn from their parents... if the father pummels the kid back.. it sends the message that pummeling each other is a rational, healthy way of dealing with family disagreements...

Maybe he needs anger management, but let's see if he stops on his own.

What good would the police do?  What if the kid is stupid enough to fight back?  There's a reason why it's called "less than lethal force", not "non-lethal force"...  You want to put the kid in jail, and teach him that he's a total fuck-up.  No.  The solution is to teach the kid that he's worth something.. by giving him something positive to do, a sense of purpose. That's one reason why i think the computer school his father suggested (3 hours a day) would be a great idea for him.  It only works if he finds it interesting though... which is why i asked what he was interested in.

psy,

Thanks for the advice. I failed to mention that my son actually said, "I'm sorry," about 20 minutes after the pummeling (can't call it a fight;-) We went for pizza and then to a movie after I picked him up today. He didn't even ask me to drop him off at the mall afterwards. He thanked me for the movie. He's a good kid at heart, always has been....just has some emotional problems and fell in with the wrong crowd. His therapist said he's functioning at the emotional level of a 12 year old.

Him threatening to kill himself:

Program interpretation: Manipulation
 what happens: his attempts are ignored, on day he suceeds.  i've seen it happen

Psychologist's interpretation: Cry for Help
 what happens: he gets therapy, things improve


As for ombudsman:  sounds good.  It's part time and the kid lives at home.  It may give him something he feels he's good at.  What are his interests?

I talked to him about Ombudsman tonight. I thought he would like only 3 -4 hrs of school, zip through the material, and go home. He says he learns better by listening to teachers. He wants it spoon fed to him. Says he wants to go to "normal school."

His interests are guitar and his loser friends.

Quote from: ""Dad Trying""

I can't let him go other places alone, like the mall,

Wow, I was wondering why he hates you. Now I know!

Thanks a lot. He gets with drug dealers and rides around town smoking pot when I leave him alone at the mall.