Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Dad Trying on February 07, 2007, 02:49:25 PM
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I have a 15 year old son, lives with me and his mom. He met bad kid at public school last semester and started with bad crowd. Now he has been suspended four times for smoking, terrible grades last semester, tested positive for THC, bought pot at school, gets cigs at school, took mushrooms and OTC pills to school to sell, physical fights with parents, curses at parents, took parent's car at 2:00 am for joyride, runs away for several hours at a time, pulled knife on parents, doesn't want any rules.
Son has treated with a psychologist and psychiatrist for a year and a half for OCD first and now depression. Is on enough anti-depressant med, but this doesn't stop his actions. I have tried talking to him and have spent time with him. I tried to get him into track and field this semister and even offered to pay him for doing it. He did two days and quit. Also, offered to get him a car if he would make good grades and quit the cigs and pot. It didn't help. He bought pot at school last week. I threatened to cut off his guitar lessons if he got suspended again for smoking cigs. But, he got suspended again last week for that.
I checked him into a medical treatment facility for emotional and drug problems last week. It's short-term. He gets out in a couple of days. I started researching some TBS's about 3 weeks ago and read the horror stories about some of those on this site and others, so I won't send him to one of those.
Does anyone know of a legit TBS or program that includes school work? If not, any suggestions on what to do for my son? He will be selling pot at school if he stays there and end up in jail. I checked into one private school near our home and it won't take him.
A therapist suggested this program by Eckerd:
http://www.eckerdyouthalternatives.org/ (http://www.eckerdyouthalternatives.org/)
The one he would go to is in Hendersonville, NC. I have seen bad things about some "wilderness schools" on the internet. Any info on this particular program or Eckerd in general? Other suggestions?
Thanks.
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[troll9]
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i aggree he is probably a troll... but just in case..
lemme help you out:
http://http://www.google.com/search?q=Eckerd+site%3Afornits.com
http://http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22Eckerd+Youth+Alternatives%22+site%3Afornits.com&btnG=Search
It's called google. use it.
if you don't find results on the first hit, keep clicking.
No. Don't send your kid to a program. see how he does once he gets back from the 30 day place.
http://http://astart.fmhi.usf.edu/
Look. Just do your research and you'll find out that no placement is safe. Read "help at any cost" by Maia Slavitz if you really need a long, detailed, explanation of why... if that still doesn't help, come back and ask some questions.
Is eckerd safe:
ask this kid:
Michael Wiltsie. Death due to suffocation for during a restraint over walking away from a huddle. (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/eckerd/michael-wiltsie.06.29.00.html)
again.. google helps (http://http://www.google.com/search?q=%22Michael+Wiltsie%22)
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This is a real situation. And it's more like a 7 day place. I couldn't even get him in there until I mentioned "suicide." I don't think he is really suicidal, but he did mention it.
I know how to Google. That's how I found this website and a few others. I started researching TBS's when a co-worker of a relative suggested a certain "school." In researching it I learned about the horrors of some TBS's. The school suggested to me turned out to be a former WWASP school in Ga.
I get the impression that this is a site for people who had horrible experiences at horrible TBS's. I figured that if there is any dirt on the program in Hendersonville, NC, I could find it here. After I posted, I searched the site and found an article about a death at an Eckerd program in Florida.
Does anyone have a positive suggestion about my son's situation? My son gets out of the very short-term program today or tomorrow. He still thinks that smoking pot is OK, his drug dealer friend is OK, and he shouldn't have any rules.
Thanks.
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What do you think the TBS is going to do that you can?t? And, how? What are your expectations? Are you seeking a private, more cushy prison?
Save your money and require that he get a part-time job. McDonalds, Taco Bell, WalMart.
Do not offered to buy a car as a bribe. Doesn?t work. The stakes just get higher. What will you bribe him with to keep him from driving under the influence? If he is not mature enough to hold down a job to at least help pay the auto expense, then he?s probably not mature enough to drive. Don?t pay for Driver?s Ed either. If he?s not motivated to work to pay for, probably sh0uldn?t have a car. It?s a pain in the ass, but keep your money and keys in a safe place. When a kid is faced with "what I want" and "what you want", "what I want" will always take precedent. Don't take it personally.
Stop trying to rescue him from society?s consequences. So what, if he ends up in jail for pot? Worse things could happen. He won?t be there long, and a fine and probation might be what?s necessary to put things in perspective. Why prolong that life lesson, if he doesn?t have the good sense to be more cautious? If he completes his probation with no problem, his record can be sealed.
Pulled a knife? I certainly don?t get this one. I can?t imagine what a parent could do to enrage their child to this degree. You and he might benefit from pondering that question. Find a good family therapist who'll let your kids tell you why he's so angry at you. And you need to divulge this to any program you might consider. I've never seen one that says they take violent kids, actually the opposite, although we know that some do. Other parents don?t want their smart-mouthing kids warehoused with violent kids.
Keep looking for educational alternatives. Better yet, put that one in his court, by asking him what his long-term plans are. Graduation? GED? College? Work? Make up a budget and help him realize how much money he will need to live independently and how much he?ll need to earn to do so. And the next step?.and the next step.... and help him get there without doing it for him.
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This is a real situation. And it's more like a 7 day place. I couldn't even get him in there until I mentioned "suicide." I don't think he is really suicidal, but he did mention it.
I know how to Google. That's how I found this website and a few others. I started researching TBS's when a co-worker of a relative suggested a certain "school." In researching it I learned about the horrors of some TBS's. The school suggested to me turned out to be a former WWASP school in Ga.
I get the impression that this is a site for people who had horrible experiences at horrible TBS's. I figured that if there is any dirt on the program in Hendersonville, NC, I could find it here. After I posted, I searched the site and found an article about a death at an Eckerd program in Florida.
Does anyone have a positive suggestion about my son's situation? My son gets out of the very short-term program today or tomorrow.
Thanks.
Sorry if i seem negative to you. There are many people who come onto this site pretending to be parents, often asking questions that seem silly to most that have been around here a while.
I can't emphasize enough how unsafe this industry is. As far a suggestions for help? I am not a mental health professional (and neither are educational consultants, or most that work at these programs).
I suggest you ask a therapist what his advice is. If he suggests a TBS, point him to this site, and we will point him to the ASTART to get a clue.
If you want my advice? Imagine you couldn't afford a TBS and go from there. Exhausted, who posts on this site, could probably also offer some advice. She is a parent who had similar issues with her kids and learned to work them out on her own.
Your son is depressed, and has issues of his own, a TBS won't fix that, it will temporarily "fix" the behavior, (which will most likely return to normal once he leaves). At that point. He will also hate you. Ask yourself: is he the forgiving type? The underlying issues will still be there, and only introspection and/or therapy can help that.
My advice on what to do: See how he acts when he gets home.
What to do if he acts out? Ask a mental health professional. Functional Family Therapy can do a lot for these situations as well.
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Google the side effects of anti-depressant, and how many kids have suicided while taking them. They may be contributing to his current state of mind. Hopelessness, anger, loss of passion don't require medication. Again, help him find something to be passionate about. It's in there, keep digging til you/he find it.
Reminds me of a story I read on ST this morning. Kid went through a long-term TBS, came out and went back to her old ways. Ended up pregnant at 17. Being a mom has brought her peace for the first time in a long time. You never know what a kid needs to find meaning and purpose in their life. You can't force your dream on them, so help them find their's. Won't work any other way, not any any humane kind of way.
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I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're for real.
Don't expect too much from a 30 day detox. If he still has the attitude that he wants to use (more likely than not), he will jump right back into the same old routine.
Get him out of that school. Since he's been gone for 30 days, this semester is shot anyway, and it sounds like he wasn't putting much effort into school. Find out if you have local charter school options or online school options, if he's even willing to do school of any kind. If he's not willing to do any sort of school besides the one he was attending, tell him he's not going back to that school and that he needs to get a job. Sitting around doing nothing all day should not be an option.
How does he get car keys? Those should be locked up. Where does he get money for the things he's been buying? Assuming he doesn't have a job, he's either stealing, dealing or both. Lock up anything of value before it just disappears (been there done that). Why are you threatening to cut off guitar lessons? The guitar should be gone. Cell phone? Gone. Computer, internet, video games? Gone. Offer him little more than food, a roof over his head, a willingness to pay for therapy and of course your love & support. Write a behavior contract, spelling out the rewards he can earn for responsible conduct (i.e., earning back the things & priveleges you took away).
If he doesn't like the psychologist he's been seeing, find another one. And another and another until he finds someone he feels comfortable talking to. Otherwise you're just wasting your money and his time.
Prepare yourself for the battle of the century, but try to always be looking out for ways to praise him verbally reward him when he acts responsibly or says or does something positive. Try not to engage him or argue with him when he picks a fight. It's so hard to do, but the argument itself may be a 'reward' for the very behavior you don't want to reward. If he gets physical, tell him to leave and go for a walk until he calms down. If he runs away, let him run. He will come back.
If you just let things go on as they were, there is a good chance that he will eventually have a run-in with law enforcement, either directly or via the school authorities. That will put him into the juvenile justice system and will put you in a position where you have a lot less influence on what happens to him.
If you put him in a program, there is strong possibility he will come out a lot more damaged than when he went in. The best you could hope for is that they do no harm, but understand that they aren't really going to help either. Oh by the way, going the program route also means parting with your life's savings and/or getting a second mortgage.
Good luck to you and your son.
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This is a real situation. And it's more like a 7 day place. I couldn't even get him in there until I mentioned "suicide." I don't think he is really suicidal, but he did mention it.
I know how to Google. That's how I found this website and a few others. I started researching TBS's when a co-worker of a relative suggested a certain "school." In researching it I learned about the horrors of some TBS's. The school suggested to me turned out to be a former WWASP school in Ga.
I get the impression that this is a site for people who had horrible experiences at horrible TBS's. I figured that if there is any dirt on the program in Hendersonville, NC, I could find it here. After I posted, I searched the site and found an article about a death at an Eckerd program in Florida.
Does anyone have a positive suggestion about my son's situation? My son gets out of the very short-term program today or tomorrow. He still thinks that smoking pot is OK, his drug dealer friend is OK, and he shouldn't have any rules.
Thanks.
I had a similar situation and would suggest trying to get your son to see a different local therapist and also one that can work with the family (yourself and spouse). It is important that your son?s therapist become an advocate solely for himself. The family therapist can help you with gaining insight into what your son is going through, issues he is dealing with and help you gain some perspective or at least maybe a different perspective. The two therapists can speak to one another also if you all agree and this can add another conduit of communication both ways between yourself and your son.
Personally I wouldn?t sweat the pot issue; a TBS is way over kill for that, in my opinion. Don?t buy him stuff, car etc. to bribe him to act right it doesn?t work as Deborah/psy suggested. Its good that you are starting to research TBS?s ahead of time so if the time comes you are prepared and educated, but I strongly suggest you exhaust all your local options first.
Our family had a positive experience with TBS?s but most here on fornits did not have a good experience with the industry as a whole.
Hope this helps
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What do you think the TBS is going to do that you can?t? And, how? What are your expectations? Are you seeking a private, more cushy prison?
Save your money and require that he get a part-time job. McDonalds, Taco Bell, WalMart.
Do not offered to buy a car as a bribe. Doesn?t work. The stakes just get higher. What will you bribe him with to keep him from driving under the influence? If he is not mature enough to hold down a job to at least help pay the auto expense, then he?s probably not mature enough to drive. Don?t pay for Driver?s Ed either. If he?s not motivated to work to pay for, probably sh0uldn?t have a car. It?s a pain in the ass, but keep your money and keys in a safe place. When a kid is faced with "what I want" and "what you want", "what I want" will always take precedent. Don't take it personally.
Stop trying to rescue him from society?s consequences. So what, if he ends up in jail for pot? Worse things could happen. He won?t be there long, and a fine and probation might be what?s necessary to put things in perspective. Why prolong that life lesson, if he doesn?t have the good sense to be more cautious? If he completes his probation with no problem, his record can be sealed.
Pulled a knife? I certainly don?t get this one. I can?t imagine what a parent could do to enrage their child to this degree. You and he might benefit from pondering that question. Find a good family therapist who'll let your kids tell you why he's so angry at you. And I want you to divulge this to any program you might consider. I've never seen one that says they take violent kids, actually the opposite, although we know that some do. Other parents don?t want their smart-mouthing kids warehoused with violent kids.
Keep looking for educational alternatives. Better yet, put that one in his court, by asking him what his long-term plans are. Graduation? GED? College? Work? Make up a budget and help him realize how much money he will need to live independently and how much he?ll need to earn to do so. And the next step?.and the next step.... and help him get there without doing it for him.
My expectation for a TBS is that it will change his environment (get him away from public school and bad friends and drugs), and teach him responsibility and give him concentrated therapy. It should also keep him physically active. Maybe there isn't a TBS out there that does this.
I tried to help him get a job, but he couldn't find one available for a 15 year old. He actually wanted a job, but I think he wanted to get a car to be more "free."
The suggestion to let him learn his lessons early isn't bad. The MD actually suggested this morning that I call the police and let him go through the judicial system if he starts another fist fight. I would hate to see him get caught selling pot though, and if he doesn't get caught early, it will be a terrible lifestyle at 18 YOA.
The reason he pulled the knife is because he failed a drug test and thought his mother had hidden his wallet. He packed a bag and said he was leaving and pulled the knife when I stopped him. It was a power play instead of an attempt to hurt me.
I have asked him what his future will be if he keeps this up-- no college, etc. He used to say he wants to go to college. Now he says he'll work with his hands. He's very intelligent, but has some stupid ideas now. He didn't have any problems until he met the bad friends.
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psy,
Thanks for your suggestions.
A therapist who came highly recommended suggested the program I linked above. Maybe she needs to visit this site.
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SIBS can help you!
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I am just surprised this same troll works over and over and over again. :rofl:
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70'spunk rebel,
Thanks to you also. Some very good suggestions. The MD suggested behavior contracts. We learned to secure the car keys. He lost the cell phone. The money and guitar were from Christmas. He has to go to school somewhere (15 YOA). plus, I want him to go. I'll keep trying to find a private school.
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The Who,
Thanks for your detailed therapy suggestions.
I did feel like I would be sort of abandoning my son by shipping him off to a TBS, but I was under the impression that he could actually get treatment there while also being separated from the bad element.
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Their methods of "treatment" are grossly over-rated (mostly by their own propaganda).
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Stop trying to rescue him from society?s consequences. So what, if he ends up in jail for pot? Worse things could happen. He won?t be there long, and a fine and probation might be what?s necessary to put things in perspective. Why prolong that life lesson, if he doesn?t have the good sense to be more cautious? If he completes his probation with no problem, his record can be sealed.
Depending on your home state, you might be living in a fantasy world, where kids are treated justly. In some states (mine for example), even a first offense for posession is a felony. And paraphernalia is the same -- a felony. His record can be sealed when he turns 18, but how "sealed" is it really? A citizen with a felony conviction can never legally own a firearm even after he's 18, regardless of the fact that it was a juvenile conviction. So his record is "sealed"? Then how does the government know to deny him his 2nd Amendment rights for the rest of his life?
BTW, in all states, the penalties for dealing are more severe than for mere posession. A 15-yr old with an expensive pot habit and no job is most likely going to take some risks in that regard.
This ain't the 70s Deborah, when getting busted was no big deal. In these days of Zero Tolerance, the justice system should be avoided like the plague. Anyone who says a parent should call the cops for anything less than a life-or-death emergency should have their head examined.
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Trying,
There are other options then just behavior modification. Tell him he is going to see a psychologist, do not offer a choice in the matter, but allow him to help pick one out, one he can trust. It sounds like youre dealing with more than just your average teenage rebellion. Deborah is right, you cannot try and bribe him, all this will do is teach him that he can barter his way out of or into anything with you. Eventually you will reach a point where it will be, "Give me what I want or Im going to smoke pot/skip school/whatever". If after trying to reach your son and talking to him, allowing him to get the help he needs he still wants to act like its his world and he's going to do whatever he wants ship him off. Don't go anywhere near the private theraputic sector, odds are he'll just end up dead there. Instead I would recommend a military school, make sure you throughly check it out first and look into their track record, many allow abuse to go on but others are truly safe enviroments. There your son will find out he cant always get his way. Hope this helps.
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Dad Trying:
I did feel like I would be sort of abandoning my son by shipping him off to a TBS, but I was under the impression that he could actually get treatment there while also being separated from the bad element.
That was a huge concern for us also, shipping her off as you say. As far as treatment we had a therapist that was independent from the TBS see my daughter each week (except when she traveled to Costa Rica) and her Therapist kept in contact with her therapist at home . So that way if there were any medical concerns, i.e, clinical depression, TBS not being effective for her etc. we could pull her out and seek other options.
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That was a huge concern for us also, shipping her off as you say. As far as treatment we had a therapist that was independent from the TBS see my daughter each week (except when she traveled to Costa Rica) and her Therapist kept in contact with her therapist at home . So that way if there were any medical concerns, i.e, clinical depression, TBS not being effective for her etc. we could pull her out and seek other options.
What therapy did she receive at the TBS she was in?
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I heard they were shittin' in the laundry bag, etc.
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That was a huge concern for us also, shipping her off as you say. As far as treatment we had a therapist that was independent from the TBS see my daughter each week (except when she traveled to Costa Rica) and her Therapist kept in contact with her therapist at home . So that way if there were any medical concerns, i.e, clinical depression, TBS not being effective for her etc. we could pull her out and seek other options.
What therapy did she receive at the TBS she was in?
She got mindfucked.
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70'spunk rebel,
Thanks to you also. Some very good suggestions. The MD suggested behavior contracts. We learned to secure the car keys. He lost the cell phone. The money and guitar were from Christmas. He has to go to school somewhere (15 YOA). plus, I want him to go. I'll keep trying to find a private school.
I saw in your second post that he was only gone for 7 days, so if he truly is willing to make some effort at school, the semester isn't necessarily shot. Does your district offer any online courses? When my son got tossed out of his regular HS a month into the semester, the powers that be ordered him to the "alternative" HS where they send all the druggies and kids with behavioral problems. We refused to comply, figuring that he would have no chance of overcoming his drug problems at a place like that. Then we discovered he could take some classes online. They weren't the same classes he had been enrolled in, and it wasn't a full load, but it was better than nothing and at least he didn't lose an entire semester. That eventually became jokingly known as "Xbox school," once he had earned back the privelege of having access to his Xbox, and with the evidence that his school work was actually getting done and his drug use was no longer out of control.
He ultimately transferred to a different HS in our district, once he had decided he wanted 'out' of the lifestyle he had gotten caught up in. The fresh start and being forced to make new friends was, in his own words, just what he needed. The longer he's been away from his old HS, the more he realizes just how much he hated it there. Strange...just a different school on the other side of town. The biggest difference being "no negative history."
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Robert, thanks, but he dislikes the military (not the troops, just the military life) and says he will run away if sent there. They won't take cadets unless the cadet wants to go anyway. We were going to send him to a military school at the start of the 9th grade for verbally fighting with his mother and he started having serious OCD symptoms. I guess he did have some problems before meeting the bad friends, but his 9th grade year went smoothly overall.
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A lot of kids deal pot and worse in school and get through it without getting caught or any major jail time. A lot of kids get sent to TBS and end up worse off than before they were sent and end up worse than they would have if things played out in their younger years. The chance is pretty much the same in either situation on the end result. So blow on that hand of yours, and hope your next roll of the dice is a lucky one, because you are definitely playing with fire at this point considering sending him away. Ill tell you I was much worse at 15 and grew out of it even though nobody thought I ever would, for what its worth.
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Thanks, Rebel.
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Trying Dad: Do you have a trusted relative or friend that your son could live with? A relative/friend who would make sure he went to school and to therapy? You seem to believe your son would "straighten up" if he was away from this new-found peer group of his. This might be a solution to help him make a turn-around.
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I have a 15 year old son, lives with me and his mom. He met bad kid at public school last semester and started with bad crowd. Now he has been suspended four times for smoking, terrible grades last semester, tested positive for THC, bought pot at school, gets cigs at school, took mushrooms and OTC pills to school to sell, physical fights with parents, curses at parents, took parent's car at 2:00 am for joyride, runs away for several hours at a time, pulled knife on parents, doesn't want any rules.
Son has treated with a psychologist and psychiatrist for a year and a half for OCD first and now depression. Is on enough anti-depressant med, but this doesn't stop his actions. I have tried talking to him and have spent time with him. I tried to get him into track and field this semister and even offered to pay him for doing it. He did two days and quit. Also, offered to get him a car if he would make good grades and quit the cigs and pot. It didn't help. He bought pot at school last week. I threatened to cut off his guitar lessons if he got suspended again for smoking cigs. But, he got suspended again last week for that.
I checked him into a medical treatment facility for emotional and drug problems last week. It's short-term. He gets out in a couple of days. I started researching some TBS's about 3 weeks ago and read the horror stories about some of those on this site and others, so I won't send him to one of those.
Does anyone know of a legit TBS or program that includes school work? If not, any suggestions on what to do for my son? He will be selling pot at school if he stays there and end up in jail. I checked into one private school near our home and it won't take him.
A therapist suggested this program by Eckerd:
http://www.eckerdyouthalternatives.org/ (http://www.eckerdyouthalternatives.org/)
The one he would go to is in Hendersonville, NC. I have seen bad things about some "wilderness schools" on the internet. Any info on this particular program or Eckerd in general? Other suggestions?
Thanks.
Do you always refer to your family members and yourself in the third person? Are purposely changing your grammar to be more program parent like so we don't recognize that you are just a regular poster here?
It doesn't really matter. This kind of troll actually serves an important purpose for this site. Gives people a chance to talk endlessly about their theory on how to fix a broken kid.
:rofl:
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Robert, thanks, but he dislikes the military (not the troops, just the military life) and says he will run away if sent there. They won't take cadets unless the cadet wants to go anyway. We were going to send him to a military school at the start of the 9th grade for verbally fighting with his mother and he started having serious OCD symptoms. I guess he did have some problems before meeting the bad friends, but his 9th grade year went smoothly overall.
I think the thing youre forgetting is that you are the parent here, he is the child. So what if he doesnt want to go. Make him. If he threatens to run away wish him the best of luck. Hes threatening you with these things because youve shown youre willing to do anything to give him anything as a means of getting him to behave. The moment you finally stand up to your kid he'll back down.
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Maybe you should sue your son. There are plenty of lawyers on this forum that could help you.
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This ain't the 70s Deborah, when getting busted was no big deal. In these days of Zero Tolerance, the justice system should be avoided like the plague. Anyone who says a parent should call the cops for anything less than a life-or-death emergency should have their head examined.
I agree, and didn't suggest that, in case there's a misunderstanding.
The laws in Tx are:
Possession of Marijuana - Texas Health and Safety Code
ยง 481.121. OFFENSE: POSSESSION OF MARIHUANA. (MARIJUANA)
(a) Except as authorized by this chapter, a person commits an offense if the person knowingly or intentionally possesses a usable quantity of marihuana.
(b) An offense under Subsection (a) is:
(1) a Class B misdemeanor if the amount of marihuana possessed is two ounces or less;
(2) a Class A misdemeanor if the amount of marihuana possessed is four ounces or less but more than two ounces;
(3) a state jail felony if the amount of marihuana possessed is five pounds or less but more than four ounces;
(4) a felony of the third degree if the amount of marihuana possessed is 50 pounds or less but more than 5 pounds;
(5) a felony of the second degree if the amount of marihuana possessed is 2,000 pounds or less but more than 50 pounds; and
(6) punishable by imprisonment in the institutional division of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice for life or for a term of not more than 99 years or less than 5 years, and a fine not to exceed $50,000, if the amount of marihuana possessed is more than 2,000 pounds. :o
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I might get some flack for this comment from the Scared Straight folks, but it might be useful to sit in on juvenile court for a week or two and educate him on the realities of the system. And take a few visits to juvie. It could be very useful if done with the right attitude, and not with the intention of scaring him, but educating. If your kid is prone to breaking the law, seems the responsible thing to do. I mean, how many kids actually understand what a felony is, or what probation entails? Not much of a deterent unless those things are understood.
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Reminds me of how they take the local high school kids through a tour of the medical examiner office to try and prevent drunk driving accidents by showing them dead bodies of car accident victims. Something parents don't realize is that yes kids realize the consequences just like adults, they just don't care. You can't "reducated" that out of a kid, that's just the way we are biologically at that age. Some kids will see that juvie isn't nearly as bad as the movies/rumors would have suggested and care even less about getting caught. They know they will be in and out (after seeing kids get probation for serious crimes and released to parents in juvie court) for major offences and then their friends will think they are the big tough guy who's been inside. Im just saying from a kids perpsective its pretty laughable. Theyll try not to smirk sure, but they are laughing inside.
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Maybe you should sue your son. There are plenty of lawyers on this forum that could help you.
:rofl: :nworthy: ::bwahaha:: ::bigsmilebounce::
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"Dad Trying", if you're real (and you're a very good troll if you're not), get your son on this forum where he can learn that sadistic fuckheads would jump at the chance to abuse him.
But for fuck's sake don't be dumb enough to send him away.
You want answers? There are no answers. You can go around to the various assholes on this board and they'll all give you their opinion, but you won't find it so long as you buy into the fantasy that you can somehow control him if you only try hard enough.
That's the fantasy that TheWho and other programmies have bought into, and it always falls apart in the end.
In the end, it's his life. Tell him that and say that if he wants to go kill himself, that's up to him, but you're not going to help him do it.
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In the end, it's his life. Tell him that and say that if he wants to go kill himself, that's up to him, but you're not going to help him do it.
Come on Lactose, That?s no advice for someone that could possibly be suffering from any number of Depression related conditions.....the child should not be given up on and discarded like that.
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Come on Lactose, stop trying to cut into my business! You know very well that I won't get paid for a referral if he lets the kid figure things out on his own, instead of sending him to some shitpit like ASR where any number of Depression related conditions can be exacerbated. The child should be given up on and discarded into the hands of sadists like myself, not encouraged to find real answers for himself.
if (real_parent_presence_probability > .09)
{deliver_standard_warning($parent = "Dad Trying", $programmie = "TheWho")};
"Dad Trying": PLEASE OBSERVE THE POSTINGS OF THE PROGRAMMIE KNOWN AS "TheWho" BY CLICKING HERE (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?search_author=TheWho).
ALSO OBSERVE MY CORRECT TRANSLATIONS BY CLICKING HERE (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?search_author=Programmie-Trans+9000).
THANK YOU FOR YOUR COOPERATION.
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I haven't read through everything(I will though) but I noticed OCD. I have OCD and I'm telling you it's incompatible with being sent "away".
I'll have more to say when I get the time to read through all of this....
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if (real_parent_presence_probability > .09)
{deliver_standard_warning($parent = "Dad Trying", $programmie = "TheWho")};
Makes sense..
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Trying,
There are other options then just behavior modification. Tell him he is going to see a psychologist, do not offer a choice in the matter, but allow him to help pick one out, one he can trust. It sounds like youre dealing with more than just your average teenage rebellion. Deborah is right, you cannot try and bribe him, all this will do is teach him that he can barter his way out of or into anything with you. Eventually you will reach a point where it will be, "Give me what I want or Im going to smoke pot/skip school/whatever". If after trying to reach your son and talking to him, allowing him to get the help he needs he still wants to act like its his world and he's going to do whatever he wants ship him off. Don't go anywhere near the private theraputic sector, odds are he'll just end up dead there. Instead I would recommend a military school, make sure you throughly check it out first and look into their track record, many allow abuse to go on but others are truly safe enviroments. There your son will find out he cant always get his way. Hope this helps.
Please in the future try to refrain from suggesting coercion in the aquisition of therapy in any form.
Have you ever been to a military school?
Military -- trained exclusively for the purpose of warfare.
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Robert, thanks, but he dislikes the military (not the troops, just the military life) and says he will run away if sent there. They won't take cadets unless the cadet wants to go anyway. We were going to send him to a military school at the start of the 9th grade for verbally fighting with his mother and he started having serious OCD symptoms. I guess he did have some problems before meeting the bad friends, but his 9th grade year went smoothly overall.
I think the thing youre forgetting is that you are the parent here, he is the child. So what if he doesnt want to go. Make him. If he threatens to run away wish him the best of luck. Hes threatening you with these things because youve shown youre willing to do anything to give him anything as a means of getting him to behave. The moment you finally stand up to your kid he'll back down.
Actually, the military school we were going to send him to, Camden Military Academy, requires the new cadet to sign the application with the parent. And his OCD symptoms were very real, and I doubt he could function there. Also, they require a year's tuition up front and it's nonrefundable.
I have stood up to him every time. Several times it resulted in fist fights. I always win, with him having an aching face or bloody nose. That worked for awhile, but now he wants his way more than he fears losing a fight.
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Robert, thanks, but he dislikes the military (not the troops, just the military life) and says he will run away if sent there. They won't take cadets unless the cadet wants to go anyway. We were going to send him to a military school at the start of the 9th grade for verbally fighting with his mother and he started having serious OCD symptoms. I guess he did have some problems before meeting the bad friends, but his 9th grade year went smoothly overall.
I think the thing youre forgetting is that you are the parent here, he is the child. So what if he doesnt want to go. Make him. If he threatens to run away wish him the best of luck. Hes threatening you with these things because youve shown youre willing to do anything to give him anything as a means of getting him to behave. The moment you finally stand up to your kid he'll back down.
Actually, the military school we were going to send him to, Camden Military Academy, requires the new cadet to sign the application with the parent. And his OCD symptoms were very real, and I doubt he could function there. Also, they require a year's tuition up front and it's nonrefundable.
I have stood up to him every time. Several times it resulted in fist fights. I always win, with him having an aching face or bloody nose. That worked for awhile, but now he wants his way more than he fears losing a fight.
Well what does he want?
What do you want?
find the incompatability, and reach a compromise. create an agreement on paper, sign it, and stick to it.
Worked with me and my parents...
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Sometimes removing your child from the enviroment they are currently in, can be a good thing. You just have to make sure that where you are sending them isn't worse then the situation that they are currently in.
I was sent away at the age of 12. A little young, but there wasn't many options. My Dad was older, married to my step-mom who hated me. My mother was a full blown alcoholic, not a great role model!
I felt totally abandoned at first, and was very upset, and angry. But, I was headed in the wrong direction at the age of 12. Going away with other kids who shared my pain was somewhat comforting. But, the rules and levels were overwhelming. I got a lot of therapy. I don't feel like I had a normal teenage life though since I was in programs for 4 1/2 years straight.
If you found the right program, which takes a heck of a lot of research, don't be so quick to make the decision to send him there. Really weigh everything out. Parents sometimes are too quick to make a decision.
Whatever you do, don't be one of those parents that sends their kids away, and decides that life is pretty easy and peaceful without them! Really think long and hard about what you decide to do with your son. Don't let some people on here tell you that there are no good programs. That is not true. They hate when I say this!!! I always say 2 outta the 4 programs that I went to were good, and it's true. But, the majority of the posters here are 100% anti-program.
I'm not sipping the kool-aid, I am not programmed, I am just being flat out honest. I in my heart of hearts feel that any school that is affiliated with WWASPS could potentially be a disaster. It's hard to figure out if they are, or aren't a lot of the schools are in the process of distancing themselves from the name. I'm sure you're no dummy but, a lot of schools out there change there names numerous times to get away from the bad press. Just figure out the structure of the schools you're thinking about sending him to. Call up a WWASPS school, and ask a bunch of questions about therapy, structure, if there are seminars..who runs them, what kind of edjucation do you provide, what is a classroom setting like, how soon can they talk to their parents, can they talk to friends. How often do they leave campus?
Ask as many questions as you can think of.
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Actually, the military school we were going to send him to, Camden Military Academy, requires the new cadet to sign the application with the parent. And his OCD symptoms were very real, and I doubt he could function there. Also, they require a year's tuition up front and it's nonrefundable.
I have stood up to him every time. Several times it resulted in fist fights. I always win, with him having an aching face or bloody nose. That worked for awhile, but now he wants his way more than he fears losing a fight.
Actually fighting with your child in that way is nothing more than abuse. Do feel free to stop at anytime. You are an adult. You need not have to resort to violence to get your child to respect you. What sort of message are you sending your son when you beat him down?
I'll tell you. After all I sent it a few times myself when working in a program.
Respect me out of fear.
And guess what it is backfiring on you. Why? Because the amounts of fear you are bringing just aren't sufficient to quell his nature. You need not resort to violence to quell violence. It only perpetuates a viscious cycle that will escalate.
I know this personally. It happened to me. I used restraints to quell a rebellion in my group when working at a program. 3 weeks later it had gone from 1 restraint to an average of 17 restraints a day. It took a lot of hard work on my part to turn that situation around. It was after that I started finding other ways to approach the boys. Not the typical jump, scream, leap, and pound into sand technique just because they got pissy and threw a rock at me.
Damn man.. You really have put yourself, and your son in a nasty position, and you want to compound it with a Military school????
YOU NEED MENTAL HELP MORE THAN YOUR SON DOES!
Chill out. He throws the first punches. I defend myself. What should I do, run? Geeze, you need help yourself if you think I enjoy having to fight my own son.
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Sometimes removing your child from the enviroment they are currently in, can be a good thing. You just have to make sure that where you are sending them isn't worse then the situation that they are currently in.
I was sent away at the age of 12. A little young, but there wasn't many options. My Dad was older, married to my step-mom who hated me. My mother was a full blown alcoholic, not a great role model!
I felt totally abandoned at first, and was very upset, and angry. But, I was headed in the wrong direction at the age of 12. Going away with other kids who shared my pain was somewhat comforting. But, the rules and levels were overwhelming. I got a lot of therapy. I don't feel like I had a normal teenage life though since I was in programs for 4 1/2 years straight.
If you found the right program, which takes a heck of a lot of research, don't be so quick to make the decision to send him there. Really weigh everything out. Parents sometimes are too quick to make a decision.
Whatever you do, don't be one of those parents that sends their kids away, and decides that life is pretty easy and peaceful without them! Really think long and hard about what you decide to do with your son. Don't let some people on here tell you that there are no good programs. That is not true. They hate when I say this!!! I always say 2 outta the 4 programs that I went to were good, and it's true. But, the majority of the posters here are 100% anti-program.
I'm not sipping the kool-aid, I am not programmed, I am just being flat out honest. I in my heart of hearts feel that any school that is affiliated with WWASPS could potentially be a disaster. It's hard to figure out if they are, or aren't a lot of the schools are in the process of distancing themselves from the name. I'm sure you're no dummy but, a lot of schools out there change there names numerous times to get away from the bad press. Just figure out the structure of the schools you're thinking about sending him to. Call up a WWASPS school, and ask a bunch of questions about therapy, structure, if there are seminars..who runs them, what kind of edjucation do you provide, what is a classroom setting like, how soon can they talk to their parents, can they talk to friends. How often do they leave campus?
Ask as many questions as you can think of.
Whoah... out of the woodwork crawls CCM Girl to throw in her .02.
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Sometimes removing your child from the enviroment they are currently in, can be a good thing. You just have to make sure that where you are sending them isn't worse then the situation that they are currently in.
I was sent away at the age of 12. A little young, but there wasn't many options. My Dad was older, married to my step-mom who hated me. My mother was a full blown alcoholic, not a great role model!
I felt totally abandoned at first, and was very upset, and angry. But, I was headed in the wrong direction at the age of 12. Going away with other kids who shared my pain was somewhat comforting. But, the rules and levels were overwhelming. I got a lot of therapy. I don't feel like I had a normal teenage life though since I was in programs for 4 1/2 years straight.
If you found the right program, which takes a heck of a lot of research, don't be so quick to make the decision to send him there. Really weigh everything out. Parents sometimes are too quick to make a decision.
Whatever you do, don't be one of those parents that sends their kids away, and decides that life is pretty easy and peaceful without them! Really think long and hard about what you decide to do with your son. Don't let some people on here tell you that there are no good programs. That is not true. They hate when I say this!!! I always say 2 outta the 4 programs that I went to were good, and it's true. But, the majority of the posters here are 100% anti-program.
I'm not sipping the kool-aid, I am not programmed, I am just being flat out honest. I in my heart of hearts feel that any school that is affiliated with WWASPS could potentially be a disaster. It's hard to figure out if they are, or aren't a lot of the schools are in the process of distancing themselves from the name. I'm sure you're no dummy but, a lot of schools out there change there names numerous times to get away from the bad press. Just figure out the structure of the schools you're thinking about sending him to. Call up a WWASPS school, and ask a bunch of questions about therapy, structure, if there are seminars..who runs them, what kind of edjucation do you provide, what is a classroom setting like, how soon can they talk to their parents, can they talk to friends. How often do they leave campus?
Ask as many questions as you can think of.
Note to Dad Trying:
The above poster is in the referral business. Yes really.
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Maybe you ought to call the police the next time he tries to hit you.
Or you could fire a hot cup of coffee on him.
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Chill out. He throws the first punches. I defend myself. What should I do, run? Geeze, you need help yourself if you think I enjoy having to fight my own son.
Defending yourself requires bloody noses and bruises? Would it hurt you to terribly to run? Do I want you to prove yourself to your son? Or should you be more worried about needing to prove to your son the pointless nature of violence?
Maybe you ought to call the police the next time he tries to hit you.
Bring yourself into reality world for god sakes TSW!!!! You'll just drive this poor Dad away. He is going to get pissed off at you guys because you are getting nasty like you always do. Is there a need to be such an asshole? Does it make things any better to be the way you're being. It just makes everything worse. You're making it worse, you like that though don't you.
You too Psy?!! Just stirring the pot, aren't you?!! I'm not in the referrel business. I just believe that there are programs out there that help! Grow up guys!
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Chill out. He throws the first punches. I defend myself. What should I do, run? Geeze, you need help yourself if you think I enjoy having to fight my own son.
Defending yourself requires bloody noses and bruises? Would it hurt you to terribly to run? Do I want you to prove yourself to your son? Or should you be more worried about needing to prove to your son the pointless nature of violence?
Maybe you ought to call the police the next time he tries to hit you.
Ya know. People are going to hate me for saying this. But if my kid tried to attack me. I would probably put him in his place too... especially if running away wasn't an option (it isn't always.)
And another thing people will probably not like me for... As far as antidepressants go... they worked for me. I've been on em since i was 13. I used to be very aggressive, i would suddenly get enraged for no reason (and i mean no reason)... prozac stopped that. I'm not saying it's right for all people, but it worked for me. It takes a few weeks to start working though, so don't expect immediate results....
Yes i know there are risks, but it has helped me, and it can always be discontinued.
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Chill out. He throws the first punches. I defend myself. What should I do, run? Geeze, you need help yourself if you think I enjoy having to fight my own son.
Defending yourself requires bloody noses and bruises? Would it hurt you to terribly to run? Do I want you to prove yourself to your son? Or should you be more worried about needing to prove to your son the pointless nature of violence?
Maybe you ought to call the police the next time he tries to hit you.
Bring yourself into reality world for god sakes TSW!!!! You'll just drive this poor Dad away. He is going to get pissed off at you guys because you are getting nasty like you always do. Is there a need to be such an asshole? Does it make things any better to be the way you're being. It just makes everything worse. You're making it worse, you like that though don't you.
You too Psy?!! Just stirring the pot, aren't you?!! I'm not in the referrel business. I just believe that there are programs out there that help! Grow up guys!
Well gee. Maybe I was mistaken about you and Kevin... oh. I see the light now... It's all clear... It must have been the stinkin thinking! My god. I see now.. it was all a mask i was wearing. Now i have to find the real me.. will you help me CCM Girl?
Let's keep on topic. Unless you want to start a thread dedicated to you where we (and a lot of others) can duke it out.
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Dad Trying,
Get out while you can, LOL!!! Some of the posters here are able to give helpful advice, and that's great. But, some of them come on here to just argue till the cows come home. They love it!
Take a lot of what they have to say with a grain of salt. I try to not let them get under my skin. That's what they enjoy most. Sick, I know! But, hey that's just who they are! They can't help it, they still have a bunch of issues they have not dealt with.
Just feel sorry for them. I know I do.
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Chill out. He throws the first punches. I defend myself. What should I do, run? Geeze, you need help yourself if you think I enjoy having to fight my own son.
Defending yourself requires bloody noses and bruises? Would it hurt you to terribly to run? Do I want you to prove yourself to your son? Or should you be more worried about needing to prove to your son the pointless nature of violence?
Maybe you ought to call the police the next time he tries to hit you.
Bring yourself into reality world for god sakes TSW!!!! You'll just drive this poor Dad away. He is going to get pissed off at you guys because you are getting nasty like you always do. Is there a need to be such an asshole? Does it make things any better to be the way you're being. It just makes everything worse. You're making it worse, you like that though don't you.
You too Psy?!! Just stirring the pot, aren't you?!! I'm not in the referrel business. I just believe that there are programs out there that help! Grow up guys!
What'd he say? It sounded pretty civil to me....
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I just want to take this time to thank baby Jesus for providing Psy with Prozac. That's all, thank you again baby Jesus!!!!!
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I didn't know that the baby Jesus gave out pharmaceuticals, lol.
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Dad Trying,
Get out while you can, LOL!!! Some of the posters here are able to give helpful advice, and that's great. But, some of them come on here to just argue till the cows come home. They love it!
Take a lot of what they have to say with a grain of salt. I try to not let them get under my skin. That's what they enjoy most. Sick, I know! But, hey that's just who they are! They can't help it, they still have a bunch of issues they have not dealt with.
Just feel sorry for them. I know I do.
Yes. we have many issues. I for one, am bisexual... my parents sent me to school for that issue.. I see now that i was just confused. I need to re-evaluate my priorities, and get real. I don't drink... but maybe the program was right when they convinced me i was an alcoholic after 4 months of gentle persuasion... My god. They saved my life! Without them i might have started drinking!
Look, Dad Trying... Unlike CCM Girl, I won't tell you to disregard everythign you see here. What i can say, is that people here are very opinionated about their experiences.
Normally, i like to keep personal arguments, bickering, in their right threads. as such, i have started a seperate thread to deal with CCM Girl.
CCM Girl:
If you want to argue with me off-topic. do it there.
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Oh yeah Ganja, Psy is just so level headed. What a charming young man he is. So polite, so articulate! LOL. I just would of hated to see him without Prozac. He seems to be very angry even on meds?!! Maybe he needs to switch them? Sometimes they do need to do that because the effectivness wears off?!!
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Chill out. He throws the first punches. I defend myself. What should I do, run? Geeze, you need help yourself if you think I enjoy having to fight my own son.
Defending yourself requires bloody noses and bruises? Would it hurt you to terribly to run? Do *you* need to prove yourself to your son? Or should you be more worried about needing to prove to your son the pointless nature of violence?
Maybe you ought to call the police the next time he tries to hit you.
You try to stop him without throwing some punches. And I think running would definitely send the wrong message-- that he can do anything he wants. The most the police can do is arrest him, then we would have to deal with the judicial system.
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Oh yeah Ganja, Psy is just so level headed. What a charming young man he is. So polite, so articulate! LOL. I just would of hated to see him without Prozac. He seems to be very angry even on meds?!! Maybe he needs to switch them? Sometimes they do need to do that because the effectivness wears off?!!
I suppose this discussion should continue on the other thread.
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Chill out. He throws the first punches. I defend myself. What should I do, run? Geeze, you need help yourself if you think I enjoy having to fight my own son.
Defending yourself requires bloody noses and bruises? Would it hurt you to terribly to run? Do *you* need to prove yourself to your son? Or should you be more worried about needing to prove to your son the pointless nature of violence?
Maybe you ought to call the police the next time he tries to hit you.
You try to stop him without throwing some punches. And I think running would definitely send the wrong message-- that he can do anything he wants. The most the police can do is arrest him, then we would have to deal with the judicial system.
I have to agree with the dad here. The popo are notorious in their excessive use of force... and the kid sounds like he might be unstable enough to fight them... which would really be tempting fate.
I'm sure, or at least i hope, that Dad Trying uses as little force as possible.
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You too Psy?!! Just stirring the pot, aren't you?!! I'm not in the referrel business. I just believe that there are programs out there that help! Grow up guys!
Really? Which programs? Why are they good? What seperates them from the bad ones?
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Oh yeah Ganja, Psy is just so level headed. What a charming young man he is. So polite, so articulate! LOL. I just would of hated to see him without Prozac. He seems to be very angry even on meds?!! Maybe he needs to switch them? Sometimes they do need to do that because the effectivness wears off?!!
I suppose this discussion should continue on the other thread.
you are right. here's a link (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=20617)
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Great job Psy! The Father is in the process of packing his sons bags as we speak (P.S. thanks for sharing you being bi with all of us)! I'm not real sure why you brought that up, but wow thanks! As far as me, and my own personal thread over on WWASPS, who cares, Dad will see even of this mature behaivor that you exibit here. That's the last you'll hear from him. Great job dude!
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Great job Psy! The Father is in the process of packing his sons bags as we speak (P.S. thanks for sharing you being bi with all of us)! I'm not real sure why you brought that up, but wow thanks! As far as me, and my own personal thread over on WWASPS, who cares, Dad will see even of this mature behaivor that you exibit here. That's the last you'll hear from him. Great job dude!
If you really cared you would have continued this in the thread I started for this purpose. I even provided a link. now please stick to the topic at hand.
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CCM,
Why would you have him call a WWASP school? That is the type of place to be avoided at all costs. Seems like a waste of the man's time to me.
The poster admitted to two mistakes my own parents made. One, the attempted use of force and, two, bribes. My Mom used to pay me to go to little league. I took the money and bought cigarettes and candy and never went to the games.
To the Dad,
Besides, if your boy is really depressed, bribes will not be enough motivation. My Dad used force which just made me better at not getting caught and drove a communication wedge between us. I was afraid to talk to him.
These are both attempts to control your son. Control over another is really an illusion as any therapist or counselor will tell you.
At the same time, don't try to punish or control him by removing positive things from him. If guitar lessons are a good thing, don't take a good thing away from him. Instead encourage the good things. Removing things he really cares about that are positive will only make him hate and resent you more.
I can't solve your problem because I don't know you or your son and there is no way anyone can diagnose your situation from a few web postings.
All I can say is that you need to build trust. Listen more, bite your tongue. Don't contradict or discredit what he says, just offer your own view point and advice. He may not appear to be listening, but he will hear you. Do this as you would to an adult friend. He will listen to suggestions more readily than orders.
Your son is approaching adulthood and you will gain a great deal of credibility with him if you treat him more like one. Also, just expect him to act like one and act surprised (but not angry) when he doesn't. Treat him like the kind of person you want him to be and see if he grows into the new image.
Ask him for advice on something, anything, a big family purchase, or a vacation decision or something that makes him feel like his view really counts. Include him on any education decisions. In other words give him a voice and a choice and the responsibility to go along with it.
You are not the boss anymore, you are the mentor, advisor, and safety net. This does not mean there are no house rules. The house rules apply to everyone, even you.
Be patient. You will not immediately stop his current behavior and the process is not linear. Success is two steps ahead, one back and cannot be measured daily. You'll just drive yourself crazy.
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I'm sorry but this discussion is bordering on absurd. You don't need to hit your child. Nor do I want you to defend yourself from him. If he gets violent call the police. You posted that these fights result in bloody noses and bruises so the message you are sending is already far more fucked up than the one you would be sending him by backing away.
What I am saying is it appears to me that your son would be safer with the police than with you.
Not the other way around.
avoid before check,
check before injure,
injure before maim,
maim before kill
- Shaolin Credo
There are situations where you cannot run. In which case, his son could harm him if he did not fight back. And ... unlike you ... i really don't trust the 50. They are more than likely to use "less than lethal force" before resorting to subduing somebody.
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Great job Psy! The Father is in the process of packing his sons bags as we speak (P.S. thanks for sharing you being bi with all of us)! I'm not real sure why you brought that up, but wow thanks! As far as me, and my own personal thread over on WWASPS, who cares, Dad will see even of this mature behaivor that you exibit here. That's the last you'll hear from him. Great job dude!
If you really cared you would have continued this in the thread I started for this purpose. I even provided a link. now please stick to the topic at hand.
Okay, and you being bi and confused, and almost being convinced you were an alcoholic had anything to do with Dad's son?
Where the hell did that come from?!! Geez, if you're going to make rules and tell people what to do. Start off by obeying them yourself buddy!
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Fuck off, CCM Girl. Seriously, just fuck the hell off.
We already have a programmie on this thread. We don't need two.
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Great advice AtomicAnt. BTW, the only reason I would have him call a WWASPS school is too learn the set up of them. They are almost identical to one another. No matter how many times they change the name, you can figure it out by the way they are structured.
Chances are he's already called a couple, and didn't even realize it. They are splattered all over the web, we all know that.
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Dad Trying. You might want to look at this NIMH data on teen boot camps:
http://http://www1.nmha.org/children/justjuv/bootcamp.cfm
(national instiitute for mental health)
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avoid before check,
check before injure,
injure before maim,
maim before kill
- Shaolin Credo
There are situations where you cannot run. In which case, his son could harm him if he did not fight back. And ... unlike you ... i really don't trust the 50. They are more than likely to use "less than lethal force" before resorting to subduing somebody.
Agreed, but those situations where you can't run are far and few between.
Yes. But they're much more likely to happen in close quarters (many houses are pretty cramped). IE, if the son is blocking the way out and there is no way to go...
I didn't say I trust the 5-0 either, but at this point concerns for the safety of the child are more pressing than the concerns for the safety of a father who engages in a fist fight with his own child. I am saying anyone who subdues someone to the point of causing nose bleeds and bruises needs to check themselves seriously.
I would generally agree. However not everybody knows how to subdue a person without causing harm such as that.
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It just occurred to me that your son wants to work but at 15 is having a hard time finding work. Do what my Dad did. Hire him yourself. Got a garage or basement that needs cleaning? How about a car that needs washing?
When I was moping around the house at 14, my Dad offered 50 bucks to clean out his garage. He informed me I could split this with any kids I got to help (a suggestion). I found a friend and we each got 25 bucks for an afternoon of work that kept us busy and out of trouble. My Dad even made and brought us lunch (no charge).
The next job he gave me was to paint the same garage.
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Fuck off, CCM Girl. Seriously, just fuck the hell off.
We already have a programmie on this thread. We don't need two.
See this is another fine example of someone who shows respect for others. Definately pay close attention to what this person has to say in regards to what you should do with your son :roll: .
Next up?!! TSW perhaps? This guy is just crossing you of his list one by one. Keep it up guys, and gals you're doing a fine job of convincing this Dad not to get his child the professional help that they might need.
Take what you want Dad, and leave the rest behind.
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CCM,
Why would you have him call a WWASP school? That is the type of place to be avoided at all costs. Seems like a waste of the man's time to me.
The poster admitted to two mistakes my own parents made. One, the attempted use of force and, two, bribes. My Mom used to pay me to go to little league. I took the money and bought cigarettes and candy and never went to the games.
To the Dad,
Besides, if your boy is really depressed, bribes will not be enough motivation. My Dad used force which just made me better at not getting caught and drove a communication wedge between us. I was afraid to talk to him.
These are both attempts to control your son. Control over another is really an illusion as any therapist or counselor will tell you.
At the same time, don't try to punish or control him by removing positive things from him. If guitar lessons are a good thing, don't take a good thing away from him. Instead encourage the good things. Removing things he really cares about that are positive will only make him hate and resent you more.
I can't solve your problem because I don't know you or your son and there is no way anyone can diagnose your situation from a few web postings.
All I can say is that I want you to build trust. Listen more, bite your tongue. Don't contradict or discredit what he says, just offer your own view point and advice. He may not appear to be listening, but he will hear you. Do this as you would to an adult friend. He will listen to suggestions more readily than orders.
Your son is approaching adulthood and you will gain a great deal of credibility with him if you treat him more like one. Also, just expect him to act like one and act surprised (but not angry) when he doesn't. Treat him like the kind of person you want him to be and see if he grows into the new image.
Ask him for advice on something, anything, a big family purchase, or a vacation decision or something that makes him feel like his view really counts. Include him on any education decisions. In other words give him a voice and a choice and the responsibility to go along with it.
You are not the boss anymore, you are the mentor, advisor, and safety net. This does not mean there are no house rules. The house rules apply to everyone, even you.
Be patient. You will not immediately stop his current behavior and the process is not linear. Success is two steps ahead, one back and cannot be measured daily. You'll just drive yourself crazy.
Thanks for a different perspective.
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See I am another fine example of someone who wants parents to send their kids away. Definately pay close attention to what I have to say in regards to what you should do with your son :roll: .
Who's next to become a programmie? I am dumb and arrogant enough to think that I can speak for the opinions of others. Keep it up guys, gals you're doing a fine job of convincing this Dad not to get his child the "professional" help of sadists.
Take only what I want you to take Dad, and leave sanity and common sense behind.
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Dad Trying, I asked earlier: Do you have a repsonsible relative or trusted friend that your son could live with on a temporary basis---since you feel that some of his out-of-control behaviors are a result of his new peer group?
This might offer a chance for a new school setting, as discussed by PUNK70, which seemed to work for his son.
Also: this might offer a chance for all of the family to get involved in family therapy, so things could be worked out--which seems to be what you want for your son.
Good luck.
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So the message you send back is: "You will do what I want or I will punch you until you do."
No, the message is-- if you attack someone, expect them to defend themselves, and you may get the worst of it.
I always stop when he stops.
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Dad Trying, I asked earlier: Do you have a repsonsible relative or trusted friend that your son could live with on a temporary basis---since you feel that some of his out-of-control behaviors are a result of his new peer group?
This might offer a chance for a new school setting, as discussed by PUNK70, which seemed to work for his son.
Also: this might offer a chance for all of the family to get involved in family therapy, so things could be worked out--which seems to be what you want for your son.
Good luck.
No, not in a different school district.
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This DAD is a troll.
He refuses to answer any questions that relate alternatives for his son.
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It just occurred to me that your son wants to work but at 15 is having a hard time finding work. Do what my Dad did. Hire him yourself. Got a garage or basement that needs cleaning? How about a car that needs washing?
When I was moping around the house at 14, my Dad offered 50 bucks to clean out his garage. He informed me I could split this with any kids I got to help (a suggestion). I found a friend and we each got 25 bucks for an afternoon of work that kept us busy and out of trouble. My Dad even made and brought us lunch (no charge).
The next job he gave me was to paint the same garage.
Done that. I let him work in my office. He worked about 3 hours and said he didn't want to work there. Also, last summer I offered him $100 to do some yard work. He did about half and stopped. His mom had to go help him finish. He got $80 instead of $100 because he didn't finish it by himself.
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Thank you to all who offered suggestions. I didn't find a good TBS, but you gave me a lot to mull over.
Goodbye
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There are no good TBSs. The concept of a TBS as they exist now, isolation/brainwashing based humiliation and coercion/conformity camps are intrinsically wrong.
Its basically high-risk outsourced torture. Why bother? For the money one of them costs you could get actual therapy or go on an adventure...
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So the message you send back is: "You will do what I want or I will punch you until you do."
No, the message is-- if you attack someone, expect them to defend themselves, and you may get the worst of it.
I always stop when he stops.
god i wish i could sleep... i hate insomnia.
I see where you and TSW are coming from. However: here is my suggestion: if you cannot subdue him without hurting him, and he continues to try it... do this: drop your guard. do not defend yourself. Let him punch you. Let him see the damage he inflicts. Let him see his father with a bloody nose that he was responsible for.
Trust me on this. Try it next time.
You have a right to defend yourself... and you have a right to choose not to as well... but why would you want to do that: more than likely, he will look at what he has done and say "my god... what have i done"... maybe then he will realize that he should get help... and ironically, by his own hand.
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This is a real situation. And it's more like a 7 day place. I couldn't even get him in there until I mentioned "suicide." I don't think he is really suicidal, but he did mention it.
I know how to Google. That's how I found this website and a few others. I started researching TBS's when a co-worker of a relative suggested a certain "school." In researching it I learned about the horrors of some TBS's. The school suggested to me turned out to be a former WWASP school in Ga.
I get the impression that this is a site for people who had horrible experiences at horrible TBS's. I figured that if there is any dirt on the program in Hendersonville, NC, I could find it here. After I posted, I searched the site and found an article about a death at an Eckerd program in Florida.
Does anyone have a positive suggestion about my son's situation? My son gets out of the very short-term program today or tomorrow.
Thanks.
Sorry if i seem negative to you. There are many people who come onto this site pretending to be parents, often asking questions that seem silly to most that have been around here a while.
I can't emphasize enough how unsafe this industry is. As far a suggestions for help? I am not a mental health professional (and neither are educational consultants, or most that work at these programs).
I suggest you ask a therapist what his advice is. If he suggests a TBS, point him to this site, and we will point him to the ASTART to get a clue.
If you want my advice? Imagine you couldn't afford a TBS and go from there. Exhausted, who posts on this site, could probably also offer some advice. She is a parent who had similar issues with her kids and learned to work them out on her own.
Your son is depressed, and has issues of his own, a TBS won't fix that, it will temporarily "fix" the behavior, (which will most likely return to normal once he leaves). At that point. He will also hate you. Ask yourself: is he the forgiving type? The underlying issues will still be there, and only introspection and/or therapy can help that.
My advice on what to do: See how he acts when he gets home.
What to do if he acts out? Ask a mental health professional. Functional Family Therapy can do a lot for these situations as well.
Hey Pops,
Listen, you've gotten some good advice here. Definitely stay away from 'programs' that take your kid out of your home. They don't work, are expensive and carry a very high risk of physical and psychological harm - we're talking long-term, hard to deal with, life-altering consequences here.
You got good advise about FFT. FFT in conjunction with a day treatment program sounds like the ticket for your boy. Look into it. Find a licensed therapist who specializes in FFT and get him into day treatment to keep him safe.
BTW, I am a former licensed therapist who has worked with dozens of 'TBS' kids to try to undo some of the massive damage they incurred at the hands of uneducated, unlicensed quacks at the conformity factories you like to call 'TBS.'
Any questions you have can be asked here or directed to me by PM.
Good luck. It's not nearly as bad as it seems and there are effective research-proven modalities to help your boy.
STAY AWAY FROM 'WT,' 'EG,' 'TBS' - THEY HAVE BEEN PROVEN INEFFECTIVE AT EVERYTHING OTHER THAN EXACERBATING EXISTING PROBLEMS.
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I still think the best thing Trying Dad can do is try to change his relationship from adversary to ally. Until that happens, the boy is not going to listen or cooperate. That's easier said than done, to be sure.
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But, I was headed in the wrong direction at the age of 12.
'm not sipping the kool-aid, I am not programmed,
You are, and just don't realize it.
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I'm sorry but this discussion is bordering on absurd.
Not bordering, it's already completely absurd. And I am only on page 4 so far!
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This DAD is a troll.
He refuses to answer any questions that relate alternatives for his son.
I think that's obvious and was established back on page 1 of this thread. But it doesn't matter, the posters in a fight will use it to argue amongst themselves, and debate how to properly restrain your kid properly. Glad to see TSW bringing some logic and patience to this thread!
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This ain't the 70s Deborah, when getting busted was no big deal. In these days of Zero Tolerance, the justice system should be avoided like the plague. Anyone who says a parent should call the cops for anything less than a life-or-death emergency should have their head examined.
I agree, and didn't suggest that, in case there's a misunderstanding.
The laws in Tx are:
Possession of Marijuana - Texas Health and Safety Code
ยง 481.121. OFFENSE: POSSESSION OF MARIHUANA. (MARIJUANA)
(a) Except as authorized by this chapter, a person commits an offense if the person knowingly or intentionally possesses a usable quantity of marihuana.
(b) An offense under Subsection (a) is:
(1) a Class B misdemeanor if the amount of marihuana possessed is two ounces or less;
(2) a Class A misdemeanor if the amount of marihuana possessed is four ounces or less but more than two ounces;
(3) a state jail felony if the amount of marihuana possessed is five pounds or less but more than four ounces;
(4) a felony of the third degree if the amount of marihuana possessed is 50 pounds or less but more than 5 pounds;
(5) a felony of the second degree if the amount of marihuana possessed is 2,000 pounds or less but more than 50 pounds; and
(6) punishable by imprisonment in the institutional division of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice for life or for a term of not more than 99 years or less than 5 years, and a fine not to exceed $50,000, if the amount of marihuana possessed is more than 2,000 pounds. :o
~~
I might get some flack for this comment from the Scared Straight folks, but it might be useful to sit in on juvenile court for a week or two and educate him on the realities of the system. And take a few visits to juvie. It could be very useful if done with the right attitude, and not with the intention of scaring him, but educating. If your kid is prone to breaking the law, seems the responsible thing to do. I mean, how many kids actually understand what a felony is, or what probation entails? Not much of a deterent unless those things are understood.
If by some bizarre chance "Dad Trying" ever comes back, I just wanted to suggest to him that he and his son both check out the NORML website and get educated about the laws in their state. Many states make a special category for possession within X feet of a school zone, and that can be a felony charge even in states where possession of small quantities is otherwise a misdemeanor.
Brilliant fucking laws...bust a high school kid with pot in his possession on campus and charge him with a serious crime. Oh BTW, while he's on campus, any school official can search his car and/or his person & possessions -- and they don't need probable cause or any excuse at all. When they find illegal substances, the on-campus cop is close at hand to make the arrest. To hell with constitutional rights -- they don't apply to school kids on campus.
We're pretty close to the point where just being a teenager is a criminal offense.
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But, I was headed in the wrong direction at the age of 12.
'm not sipping the kool-aid, I am not programmed,
You are, and just don't realize it.
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This is a real situation. And it's more like a 7 day place. I couldn't even get him in there until I mentioned "suicide." I don't think he is really suicidal, but he did mention it.
I know how to Google. That's how I found this website and a few others. I started researching TBS's when a co-worker of a relative suggested a certain "school." In researching it I learned about the horrors of some TBS's. The school suggested to me turned out to be a former WWASP school in Ga.
I get the impression that this is a site for people who had horrible experiences at horrible TBS's. I figured that if there is any dirt on the program in Hendersonville, NC, I could find it here. After I posted, I searched the site and found an article about a death at an Eckerd program in Florida.
Does anyone have a positive suggestion about my son's situation? My son gets out of the very short-term program today or tomorrow.
Thanks.
Sorry if i seem negative to you. There are many people who come onto this site pretending to be parents, often asking questions that seem silly to most that have been around here a while.
I can't emphasize enough how unsafe this industry is. As far a suggestions for help? I am not a mental health professional (and neither are educational consultants, or most that work at these programs).
I suggest you ask a therapist what his advice is. If he suggests a TBS, point him to this site, and we will point him to the ASTART to get a clue.
If you want my advice? Imagine you couldn't afford a TBS and go from there. Exhausted, who posts on this site, could probably also offer some advice. She is a parent who had similar issues with her kids and learned to work them out on her own.
Your son is depressed, and has issues of his own, a TBS won't fix that, it will temporarily "fix" the behavior, (which will most likely return to normal once he leaves). At that point. He will also hate you. Ask yourself: is he the forgiving type? The underlying issues will still be there, and only introspection and/or therapy can help that.
My advice on what to do: See how he acts when he gets home.
What to do if he acts out? Ask a mental health professional. Functional Family Therapy can do a lot for these situations as well.
Hey Pops,
Listen, you've gotten some good advice here. Definitely stay away from 'programs' that take your kid out of your home. They don't work, are expensive and carry a very high risk of physical and psychological harm - we're talking long-term, hard to deal with, life-altering consequences here.
You got good advise about FFT. FFT in conjunction with a day treatment program sounds like the ticket for your boy. Look into it. Find a licensed therapist who specializes in FFT and get him into day treatment to keep him safe.
BTW, I am a former licensed therapist who has worked with dozens of 'TBS' kids to try to undo some of the massive damage they incurred at the hands of uneducated, unlicensed quacks at the conformity factories you like to call 'TBS.'
Any questions you have can be asked here or directed to me by PM.
Good luck. It's not nearly as bad as it seems and there are effective research-proven modalities to help your boy.
STAY AWAY FROM 'WT,' 'EG,' 'TBS' - THEY HAVE BEEN PROVEN INEFFECTIVE AT EVERYTHING OTHER THAN EXACERBATING EXISTING PROBLEMS.
Thanks. He gets out of the inpatient stay today (after 7 days). The Dr suggested he now attend a day treatment program at the facility (9 - 4pm). We will go with that and then follow-up with family therapy. No private school will take him in the middle of the year, so I guess he will have to go back to his public school, unfortunately. That will make this very difficult.
I never want to send him away from home unless he can get real therapy at a real program and it's the only way to keep him out of trouble. He's my responsibility and I love him. I will fight for him (and against him if necessary) to get him the help he needs and try to set him in the right direction.
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This ain't the 70s Deborah, when getting busted was no big deal. In these days of Zero Tolerance, the justice system should be avoided like the plague. Anyone who says a parent should call the cops for anything less than a life-or-death emergency should have their head examined.
I agree, and didn't suggest that, in case there's a misunderstanding.
The laws in Tx are:
Possession of Marijuana - Texas Health and Safety Code
ยง 481.121. OFFENSE: POSSESSION OF MARIHUANA. (MARIJUANA)
(a) Except as authorized by this chapter, a person commits an offense if the person knowingly or intentionally possesses a usable quantity of marihuana.
(b) An offense under Subsection (a) is:
(1) a Class B misdemeanor if the amount of marihuana possessed is two ounces or less;
(2) a Class A misdemeanor if the amount of marihuana possessed is four ounces or less but more than two ounces;
(3) a state jail felony if the amount of marihuana possessed is five pounds or less but more than four ounces;
(4) a felony of the third degree if the amount of marihuana possessed is 50 pounds or less but more than 5 pounds;
(5) a felony of the second degree if the amount of marihuana possessed is 2,000 pounds or less but more than 50 pounds; and
(6) punishable by imprisonment in the institutional division of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice for life or for a term of not more than 99 years or less than 5 years, and a fine not to exceed $50,000, if the amount of marihuana possessed is more than 2,000 pounds. :o
~~
I might get some flack for this comment from the Scared Straight folks, but it might be useful to sit in on juvenile court for a week or two and educate him on the realities of the system. And take a few visits to juvie. It could be very useful if done with the right attitude, and not with the intention of scaring him, but educating. If your kid is prone to breaking the law, seems the responsible thing to do. I mean, how many kids actually understand what a felony is, or what probation entails? Not much of a deterent unless those things are understood.
If by some bizarre chance "Dad Trying" ever comes back, I just wanted to suggest to him that he and his son both check out the NORML website and get educated about the laws in their state. Many states make a special category for possession within X feet of a school zone, and that can be a felony charge even in states where possession of small quantities is otherwise a misdemeanor.
Brilliant fucking laws...bust a high school kid with pot in his possession on campus and charge him with a serious crime. Oh BTW, while he's on campus, any school official can search his car and/or his person & possessions -- and they don't need probable cause or any excuse at all. When they find illegal substances, the on-campus cop is close at hand to make the arrest. To hell with constitutional rights -- they don't apply to school kids on campus.
We're pretty close to the point where just being a teenager is a criminal offense.
Rebel,
Will do. I think that might help. He picked some psychedelic mushrooms out of cow poop and took them to school to sell because he thought they were legal in our state. His only good grade last semester was "street law." Hopefully, he will take note of the harsh penalties.
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Can I give you my address so you can have him mail me some 'shrooms?
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We've exchanged PMs but I decided to put my reply to him in public to warn all the other parents. Since he's apparently chosen day treatment over a lockdown hellhole, most of this may not apply, but I figure I'll throw it out there anyway...
The entire concept on which this industry is built- the idea that you can somehow pay someone to "fix" your kid- is wrong. Imagine for a moment that someone you didn't like and didn't trust went and paid someone else thousands of dollars to "fix" you.
Even if you truly believe you are doing this out of love, he will probably never believe you.
In fact, if he is changed, he may spend time intentionally changing himself back simply out of spite. Imagine for a moment that instead of dealing with a kid who is no longer acting out of peer pressure or extended youthful lack of foresight, but instead out of raw contempt? Consider for a moment that the most popular topic on the Straight, Inc. board is the "I just" (did a whole lot of drugs) thread. These are people who were in Straight twenty-five years ago. They still have the same amount of rebellious hate, only now it's crystallized. There's one man who will only listen to heavy metal made before his "intake day".
And aren't you at least going to warn him, or at least let someone else warn him, before you do something this extreme? Doesn't he have the right to know what the hell he's being thrown into? Do you have any idea what these people run on and what they do? Browse the other forums for a while, especially the CEDU one.
Search the forums for posts made by "Exhausted", a woman who was in a similar situation with her violent teenage boys.
By the way, the name of the particular program means little. These guys change names more often than they change underwear. You don't have to believe me- ask around, especially *after* you've found the program in question, and you'll see Fornits members eagerly pointing out where all the program heads used to work, and what the facility used to be called. You're getting ready to pay thousands of dollars and your son's life- you can at least find out exactly what the hell you're buying first.
By the way, I'm called Milk Gargling Death Penalty for a reason...
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The entire concept on which this industry is built- the idea that you can somehow pay someone to "fix" your kid- is wrong. Imagine for a moment that someone you didn't like and didn't trust went and paid someone else thousands of dollars to "fix" you.
I see it a little differently?.. its not about fixing but trying to give the child an opportunity to grow or helping them to get back on track.
If I were acting out of my element and causing myself harm, gambling my money away, having the police at my house 3 times a week for various reasons, waking up in hospitals, I would hope the people around me that love me would take over and get me help. They couldn?t force me to change but they could get me to a safe place where I was protected from myself and give me an opportunity to get back on track, if all the local options failed to work I would hope they would make some decisions for me to keep me safe else where.
This is what some TBS?s do?.they provide a safe place for your child so that they can grow without the influences of whatever bad element was causing them to become ?At Risk? in their old environment.
There are many places with poor track records so one needs to do their homework.
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I see it a little differently?.. its not about fixing but trying to give the child an opportunity to grow or helping them to get back on track.
Semantics; same thing, really.
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This is a real situation. And it's more like a 7 day place. I couldn't even get him in there until I mentioned "suicide." I don't think he is really suicidal, but he did mention it.
I know how to Google. That's how I found this website and a few others. I started researching TBS's when a co-worker of a relative suggested a certain "school." In researching it I learned about the horrors of some TBS's. The school suggested to me turned out to be a former WWASP school in Ga.
I get the impression that this is a site for people who had horrible experiences at horrible TBS's. I figured that if there is any dirt on the program in Hendersonville, NC, I could find it here. After I posted, I searched the site and found an article about a death at an Eckerd program in Florida.
Does anyone have a positive suggestion about my son's situation? My son gets out of the very short-term program today or tomorrow.
Thanks.
Sorry if i seem negative to you. There are many people who come onto this site pretending to be parents, often asking questions that seem silly to most that have been around here a while.
I can't emphasize enough how unsafe this industry is. As far a suggestions for help? I am not a mental health professional (and neither are educational consultants, or most that work at these programs).
I suggest you ask a therapist what his advice is. If he suggests a TBS, point him to this site, and we will point him to the ASTART to get a clue.
If you want my advice? Imagine you couldn't afford a TBS and go from there. Exhausted, who posts on this site, could probably also offer some advice. She is a parent who had similar issues with her kids and learned to work them out on her own.
Your son is depressed, and has issues of his own, a TBS won't fix that, it will temporarily "fix" the behavior, (which will most likely return to normal once he leaves). At that point. He will also hate you. Ask yourself: is he the forgiving type? The underlying issues will still be there, and only introspection and/or therapy can help that.
My advice on what to do: See how he acts when he gets home.
What to do if he acts out? Ask a mental health professional. Functional Family Therapy can do a lot for these situations as well.
Hey Pops,
Listen, you've gotten some good advice here. Definitely stay away from 'programs' that take your kid out of your home. They don't work, are expensive and carry a very high risk of physical and psychological harm - we're talking long-term, hard to deal with, life-altering consequences here.
You got good advise about FFT. FFT in conjunction with a day treatment program sounds like the ticket for your boy. Look into it. Find a licensed therapist who specializes in FFT and get him into day treatment to keep him safe.
BTW, I am a former licensed therapist who has worked with dozens of 'TBS' kids to try to undo some of the massive damage they incurred at the hands of uneducated, unlicensed quacks at the conformity factories you like to call 'TBS.'
Any questions you have can be asked here or directed to me by PM.
Good luck. It's not nearly as bad as it seems and there are effective research-proven modalities to help your boy.
STAY AWAY FROM 'WT,' 'EG,' 'TBS' - THEY HAVE BEEN PROVEN INEFFECTIVE AT EVERYTHING OTHER THAN EXACERBATING EXISTING PROBLEMS.
Thanks. He gets out of the inpatient stay today (after 7 days). The Dr suggested he now attend a day treatment program at the facility (9 - 4pm). We will go with that and then follow-up with family therapy. No private school will take him in the middle of the year, so I guess he will have to go back to his public school, unfortunately. That will make this very difficult.
I never want to send him away from home unless he can get real therapy at a real program and it's the only way to keep him out of trouble. He's my responsibility and I love him. I will fight for him (and against him if necessary) to get him the help he needs and try to set him in the right direction.
Pops,
Funny, ain't it, that the licensed professionals seem to come up with the same answers.
Follow the direction of your kid's therapist and get him into day treatment. Also, ask his therapist if he is or knows someone who is versed in Functional Family Therapy. This will do you a lot of good.
FFT focuses on the relationship between family members and does not rely on some sort of diagnosis, but rather learning to live with one another in harmony by improving parenting skills and communication. This sounds just about right for you and your boy who seems not to suffer from any sort of mental illness - he's just running a little too fast for a kid his age.
You and he seem to have an adversarial relationship and I suppose you already see where that gets you (As Deborah has said before - If your only tool is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail). FFT will help this adversarial relationship to become more supportive.
You will both need to do work on this issue, but, in my experience, your boy will respect you for trying to find a better way to communicate with him and that will lead to other gains as well.
Good luck. Work hard. Keep your boy at home where he should be...
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Pops, one last thing. There are distinct benefits offered by the TBS industry.
I'm not suggesting to send him to one of their facilities, but you can tell him that you are "looking into it" as a "last resort" and direct him to this site to read up on what goes on in the programs - this will likely get you some leverage when he sees how dire you think his situation is.
And, if I don't hear from you again and you are still considering a ::bangin:: ::puke:: 'TBS' please reference ISACCORP.org for further details. If you have questions you feel haven't been adequately addressed here, I suggest you contact ISAC's founder, Shelby Earnshaw directly with any questions you may have.
Again, good luck and keep us posted on your progress!
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Is it possible for you to homeschool the chap for the rest of the year? Public and private and rtc are not the only three option here. At least until summer, he would not get behind if you are able to think outside the box and homeschool. Just saying.
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I see it a little differently?.. its not about fixing but trying to give the child an opportunity to grow or helping them to get back on track.
Semantics; same thing, really.
no it is not the same thing, but you'll never get it either
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It amounts to the same thing concerning a TBS, my astute negroid.
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(But the point is that a TBS does neither.)
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Is it possible for you to homeschool the chap for the rest of the year? Public and private and rtc are not the only three option here. At least until summer, he would not get behind if you are able to think outside the box and homeschool. Just saying.
Home school could work wonders for the whole family. Even if they sacrifice and do it for just this semester.
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In some families that would be worse than a program!!!
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In some families that would be worse than a program!!!
Yeah, like mine...
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:rofl: :rofl:
:skull: :skull:
RIP Anna Nicole Smith 1967-2007
We will all miss you!
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Now that's someone who should have been involved in the teen escort business.
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In some families that would be worse than a program!!!
Yeah, like mine...
So you support sending kids to programs? I am so confused.
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I am so confused.
There are medications for that!!!
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http://www.ombudsman.com/ (http://www.ombudsman.com/)
alternative education... mostly computer based with some basic skills offered in the program
check out to see if there are locations near you. basically in the ombudsman program the kid goes to school at the ombudsman facility (usually in a strip mall of some sort) teh kid stays in school for a max of 3 hours, then he/she goes home.
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"Besides his bein' kinda crazy, they called him the Smoking Loon 'cause he was so dam' efficient," Jake began, stubbing out his cigar. "He'd take care of business an' get in an' out before anybody's see him comin'...leavin no trace 'cept the lingering sound of his eerie, loon-like cackle. No one was really sure who he was or who he worked for, but when word got out someone needed his services, the Smoking Loon just appeared on their doorstep, like outta thin air or somethin'".
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Is it possible for you to homeschool the chap for the rest of the year? Public and private and rtc are not the only three option here. At least until summer, he would not get behind if you are able to think outside the box and homeschool. Just saying.
Home school could work wonders for the whole family. Even if they sacrifice and do it for just this semester.
That's a possibility, but it would isolate him from all contact with other kids. I can't let him go other places alone, like the mall, so I'm afraid home schooling would worsen his depression.
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http://www.ombudsman.com/
alternative education... mostly computer based with some basic skills offered in the program
check out to see if there are locations near you. basically in the ombudsman program the kid goes to school at the ombudsman facility (usually in a strip mall of some sort) teh kid stays in school for a max of 3 hours, then he/she goes home.
The program looks good, and surprisingly, there is a location in our city. This could be the ticket. I've requested info.
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I can't let him go other places alone, like the mall,
Wow, I was wondering why he hates you. Now I know!
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Update on my son:
started day program this AM. Got there late because he didn't want to get up. Last night we had a pretty good family session before he left the brief 7 day inpatient program. On the way home he screamed in my face because I wouldn't let him use my cell to call his friends (their numbers are blocked at home). Later last night he got on the computer and blew up when he saw I had restricted his access so that he couldn't get on myspace. He screamed a while and said he might as well end it now and he hung his body half-way off the 2nd floor balcony. I ignored him and he came downstairs and went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch as he yelled, "You sent me to that place." Then I grabbed him and told him I wasn't going to hit him back. Then asked him if it made him feel good to hit his dad in the face. He said, "no." He was calm the rest of the night, but I think he stayed up most of the night trying to 'catch up' on TV and playing video games. He wouldn't go to bed at 11:00. Trying to force him to go to bed results in a fight and defeats the purpose.
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I can't let him go other places alone, like the mall,
Wow, I was wondering why he hates you. Now I know!
Thanks a lot. He gets with drug dealers and rides around town smoking pot when I leave him alone at the mall.
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Update on my son:
started day program this AM. Got there late because he didn't want to get up. Last night we had a pretty good family session before he left the brief 7 day inpatient program. On the way home he screamed in my face because I wouldn't let him use my cell to call his friends (their numbers are blocked at home). Later last night he got on the computer and blew up when he saw I had restricted his access so that he couldn't get on myspace. He screamed a while and said he might as well end it now and he hung his body half-way off the 2nd floor balcony. I ignored him and he came downstairs and went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch as he yelled, "You sent me to that place." Then I grabbed him and told him I wasn't going to hit him back. Then asked him if it made him feel good to hit his dad in the face. He said, "no." He was calm the rest of the night, but I think he stayed up most of the night trying to 'catch up' on TV and playing video games. He wouldn't go to bed at 11:00. Trying to force him to go to bed results in a fight and defeats the purpose.
what did he mean by "you sent me to that place"?
Oh.. and ignore milk if he acts like an asshole. he does that.
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[troll10]
I bow to your skills.
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I can't let him go other places alone, like the mall,
Wow, I was wondering why he hates you. Now I know!
Thanks a lot. He gets with drug dealers and rides around town smoking pot when I leave him alone at the mall.
Better lock him up then.
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Oh fuck this bullshit. There's already about three fuckers out there pretending to be me and I'm not in the fucking mood for a fourth. Slice, waste this guy.
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Him threatening to kill himself:
Program interpretation: Manipulation
what happens: his attempts are ignored, on day he suceeds. i've seen it happen
Psychologist's interpretation: Cry for Help
what happens: he gets therapy, things improve
As for ombudsman: sounds good. It's part time and the kid lives at home. It may give him something he feels he's good at. What are his interests?
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Update on my son:
started day program this AM. Got there late because he didn't want to get up. Last night we had a pretty good family session before he left the brief 7 day inpatient program. On the way home he screamed in my face because I wouldn't let him use my cell to call his friends (their numbers are blocked at home). Later last night he got on the computer and blew up when he saw I had restricted his access so that he couldn't get on myspace. He screamed a while and said he might as well end it now and he hung his body half-way off the 2nd floor balcony. I ignored him and he came downstairs and went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch as he yelled, "You sent me to that place." Then I grabbed him and told him I wasn't going to hit him back. Then asked him if it made him feel good to hit his dad in the face. He said, "no." He was calm the rest of the night, but I think he stayed up most of the night trying to 'catch up' on TV and playing video games. He wouldn't go to bed at 11:00. Trying to force him to go to bed results in a fight and defeats the purpose.
what did he mean by "you sent me to that place"?
Oh.. and ignore milk if he acts like an asshole. he does that.
He was talking about the 7 day inpatient program he just got out of. He hated being "locked up." Guess he would really hate a TBS, huh?
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Update on my son:
started day program this AM. Got there late because he didn't want to get up. Last night we had a pretty good family session before he left the brief 7 day inpatient program. On the way home he screamed in my face because I wouldn't let him use my cell to call his friends (their numbers are blocked at home). Later last night he got on the computer and blew up when he saw I had restricted his access so that he couldn't get on myspace. He screamed a while and said he might as well end it now and he hung his body half-way off the 2nd floor balcony. I ignored him and he came downstairs and went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch as he yelled, "You sent me to that place." Then I grabbed him and told him I wasn't going to hit him back. Then asked him if it made him feel good to hit his dad in the face. He said, "no." He was calm the rest of the night, but I think he stayed up most of the night trying to 'catch up' on TV and playing video games. He wouldn't go to bed at 11:00. Trying to force him to go to bed results in a fight and defeats the purpose.
what did he mean by "you sent me to that place"?
Oh.. and ignore milk if he acts like an asshole. he does that.
He was talking about the 7 day inpatient program he just got out of. He hated being "locked up." Guess he would really hate a TBS, huh?
No, he will love it and thank you for saving his life. Do you want him to grow up and hate you for not doing something while his life went down the tubes?! Get in gear Dad and stop "trying" and actually take concrete action, send your teen to a private program today!
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Update on my son:
started day program this AM. Got there late because he didn't want to get up. Last night we had a pretty good family session before he left the brief 7 day inpatient program. On the way home he screamed in my face because I wouldn't let him use my cell to call his friends (their numbers are blocked at home). Later last night he got on the computer and blew up when he saw I had restricted his access so that he couldn't get on myspace. He screamed a while and said he might as well end it now and he hung his body half-way off the 2nd floor balcony. I ignored him and he came downstairs and went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch as he yelled, "You sent me to that place." Then I grabbed him and told him I wasn't going to hit him back. Then asked him if it made him feel good to hit his dad in the face. He said, "no." He was calm the rest of the night, but I think he stayed up most of the night trying to 'catch up' on TV and playing video games. He wouldn't go to bed at 11:00. Trying to force him to go to bed results in a fight and defeats the purpose.
what did he mean by "you sent me to that place"?
Oh.. and ignore milk if he acts like an asshole. he does that.
He was talking about the 7 day inpatient program he just got out of. He hated being "locked up." Guess he would really hate a TBS, huh?
Yup. He would. And he wouldn't be very happy when he got out either. Most kids who were at the TBS i was in don't talk to their parents anymore.
Maia Slavitz, who wrote "Help at Any Cost" found out that kids in TBS schools have the same sucess rates on average as those with no help at all.
Your kid won't improve until he realizes he has a problem... He might not have a drug problem. If he's only smoking pot? Who hasn't done that when they were teenagers. As for his depression... that he needs help for.
What helped another mother on this site? Her son used to hang around with the same crowd. Eventually, one of his friends got in big trouble. He then realized he didn't want to go that route. Maybe you could engineer something like that. Hire a PI, take photos, deliver package to popo.
I think it's common sense.. but don't tell your kid you did this when the kid gets in trouble.
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Pops, you're doing fine.
I'm glad you said "forcing" things is counter-productive. Reasonable people know this. However, in TBS/EG/WT, it's all about force, both physical and psychological. It's incredibly damaging to the child.
Sounds to me like you're on the right track. Keep us updated if you have time. If you need any specific advice, please feel free to PM me at your convenience...
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went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch
Dad~
I have to seriously disagree with psy's advise on this matter. This is abuse ... pure and simple. NO ONE has the right to "pummel" someone else for ANY reason.
You are sending your son the message that physical violence is an appropriate method of expressing his emotions. That it is OK to punch a human being when he doesn't get his way.
Someday, he will take that lesson to his marriage. When his wife does not give in to his protestations and emotional manipulations, he will resort to making her his human punching bag.
Perhaps someday when he is confronted by a boss, he will resort to physical violence to make his point.
Or God forbid, someday when he has a child of his own he will resort to punching when he has no better anger management skill.
You are not teaching your son to be responsible. You are not teaching him to respect others. You are not teaching him to manage his anger effectively.
Violence is always wrong. ALWAYS. Next time call 911 and let him suffer the real life consequences of pummeling someone.
PSY ~ I usually respect your perspectives, but you're way off on this one. If my husband was frustrated with me for something would you honestly advise me to just let him haul off and pummel me? Or would you begin to show me that this constitutes spousal abuse? I think we both know the answer to that question.
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went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch
Dad~
I have to seriously disagree with psy's advise on this matter. This is abuse ... pure and simple. NO ONE has the right to "pummel" someone else for ANY reason.
You are sending your son the message that physical violence is an appropriate method of expressing his emotions. That it is OK to punch a human being when he doesn't get his way.
Someday, he will take that lesson to his marriage. When his wife does not give in to his protestations and emotional manipulations, he will resort to making her his human punching bag.
Perhaps someday when he is confronted by a boss, he will resort to physical violence to make his point.
Or God forbid, someday when he has a child of his own he will resort to punching when he has no better anger management skill.
You are not teaching your son to be responsible. You are not teaching him to respect others. You are not teaching him to manage his anger effectively.
Violence is always wrong. ALWAYS. Next time call 911 and let him suffer the real life consequences of pummeling someone.
PSY ~ I usually respect your perspectives, but you're way off on this one. If my husband was frustrated with me for something would you honestly advise me to just let him haul off and pummel me? Or would you begin to show me that this constitutes spousal abuse? I think we both know the answer to that question.
Read why i suggested it before condemning me (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=245564#245564). Would you rather he did what he did before: pummel the kid back!?!? That didn't work. At least here, the kid admitted he didn't feel good about it. Pummeling him back would make him feel justified and further the conflict. He might feel it's ok to attack his father since he fights back. Violence is ended when one party refuses to participate in it. Period. I'm not a Christian but there is a lot of wisdom in "turn the other cheek (offer him the other)" The father chose not to respond, and the kid felt bad about hitting him. From now on, if he attacks his father, he will do so dishonorably, by attacking a defenseless target.
The point is to make the kid feel shame. The point is for the kid to look at his father ignoring his blows and say to himself "could i do that, do i have the strength?"... The point is to make the kid realize that he hurt somebody else. Read my original advice before condemning me.
I aggree the kid probably needs anger management, but kids learn from their parents... if the father pummels the kid back.. it sends the message that pummeling each other is a rational, healthy way of dealing with family disagreements...
Maybe he needs anger management, but let's see if he stops on his own.
What good would the police do? What if the kid is stupid enough to fight back? There's a reason why it's called "less than lethal force", not "non-lethal force"... You want to put the kid in jail, and teach him that he's a total fuck-up. No. The solution is to teach the kid that he's worth something.. by giving him something positive to do, a sense of purpose. That's one reason why i think the computer school his father suggested (3 hours a day) would be a great idea for him. It only works if he finds it interesting though... which is why i asked what he was interested in.
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Ever considered that becuase he is cooped up, pent up, has no friends or outlets or even contact via ]MYSPACE he is so frustrated?
Being cooped up and having zero outlets can make you build up until you snap, I'd know from experience.
Including the present but that's more due to the DMV in the bass-ackwards state of NC and my financial situation, but at any rate, think about it.
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ORIGINALLY QUOTED BY PSY:
Violence is ended when one party refuses to participate in it.
Good point Psy ... by allowing oneself to be "pummeled" he IS participating in the violence. Your a psych major right? Certainly you understand that Dad is enabling his son's violent behavior when he "accepts" the violence.
I certainly NEVER suggested that the dad resort to like violence. That would solve nothing. But neither does allowing oneself to be the victim of violence.
While it MAY appear that this tact "worked", I might argue that son released pent up hostilities and felt better. I didn't hear any reports of the "kid feeling bad" about hitting his dad. He stated that he didn't feel any better. Big difference in my opinion. To pummel ones father (a defenseless target) is dishonorable. Whether it was the first time or the tenth time.
How long do we allow him to pummel people before the family says "Geez .... I guess he's not going to stop on his own."
BTW ... I read the whole thread ... including your original advise. I did not in any way condemn you ... I pointed out that your advise is not sound. I stand by that.
I will reiterate ... violence is NEVER OK. Not against a child, not against a spouse and not against a parent.
What good would the police do? Perhaps they would teach the lad (at an earlier rather than a later age) that we can not lash out violently when we don't get our way. Perhaps it may mean a stay in a juvenile facility for a period of time. But, that would be a hell of a lot better than a felonious conviction for assault and battery as an adult.
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He'd just get stuck in the juvie system as a violent offender and the father would lose control of the situation.
Besides if he can post on the internet about it he's not exactly injured, now is he?
I think you should take your hands off and say "get a job", but that's me.
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@ Truth Searcher
Hid dad grabbed him and asked him if he "felt good".. The kid said "no". Depending on the intonation and way he said "no" you could be right. But personally, i think the kid probably felt a bit guilty. In any case.. it got him to think about it a bit more than if he was tending to his bloody nose.
I'm actually not a psych major, although my mom used to practice psychology and i grew up with the DSM-3R as bathroom reading material (odd kid). My mom used to talk to me about psychology all the time. I'm actually an art student (former IT worker). Why such a shift? Experimenting with my noodle. ("building bridges" between L and R modes)
I do not feel that he is enabling his son's violence by not responding to it. I feel the way he was responding to his son's violence was enabling it. Why? Monkey see - monkey do.
I do not feel the father was allowing himself to be the "victim" of violence. A victim cannot fight back. His father chose not to fight back.
Might his son only feel it is acceptable to attack his father because he responds? Might he be challenging his authority? In which case: what do you want him to see as strength?
If he continues.. i would aggree he needs outside help (although I still disagree on the cops). Consequences are one thing... but putting him in jail might make him think that he's "destined" to failure... What else might he learn in there? How to shoot heroin? It might scare him into turning around.. or it might scare him into fitting in... Come on. There are more ways to help a kid than throwing the book at him...
This is what i would do if i were the kid's father: i would let him punch me until he gave me a bloody nose and/or black eye. If he didn't succeed. I might do it myself. The next morning. When he sees the black eye. what do you think he might feel? Might he feel guilty enough to want to get some anger management / therapy? Might the kid worry about what his father might tell his coworkers (i suggest something like: wife hit me *hahahahahaha*, no i was kneeling down fixing the bathroom doorhandle and somebody opened it.) By fighting back the kid learns nothing about his own capability to cause damage by his violent actions. By not responding he would learn "ooh. when i fight, somebody besides me can get hurt" This tactic employs the centuries old, tried and true, tactic of "catholic style guilt trip".
I know it sounds absolutely crazy, and perhaps it's a wee bit manipulative, but it's the father's choice. And it's what I would do if my son continued to do that.
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How old is this kid and what is his size?
He is 15 / 6" long, medium width.
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I have a 11 year old daughter that has started hitting me when I confront with her lying to me or she not doing something that she is suppose to have done. Example..... The other day she was told to bring something from her room that we need for an emergancy situtation, I repeated to her again and she wanted to give me the "dumb dog look" like I was stupid and that I could get it myself. I had gotten up to go get the item from her room and she smarted off to me, instead of popping her in the mouth I took a hand full of hair and pulled her aside that is when she knocked the breath out of me with her fist. Mind you things where tense at the moment because of the emergancy but I know I didn't pull her as hard as I wanted to because I didn't want to hurt her. It really caught me off by surprise.
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I have a 11 year old daughter that has started hitting me when I confront with her lying to me or she not doing something that she is suppose to have done. Example..... The other day she was told to bring something from her room that we need for an emergancy situtation, I repeated to her again and she wanted to give me the "dumb dog look" like I was stupid and that I could get it myself. I had gotten up to go get the item from her room and she smarted off to me, instead of popping her in the mouth I took a hand full of hair and pulled her aside that is when she knocked the breath out of me with her fist. Mind you things where tense at the moment because of the emergancy but I know I didn't pull her as hard as I wanted to because I didn't want to hurt her. It really caught me off by surprise.
Pulling her hair probably caused a spike in her adrenaline. She was probably shocked by what you did and responded without thinking. Moral of the story: Don't touch your daughter like that.
Does she ever do it if you don't touch her first?
Ps. this thread is focused on "TryingDad" if you want, you can always start a new thread on the forum. If you don't like smart-assed responses from people (this "Troubled teen industry" forum is unmoderated), try asking for help in the "facilities questions" forum.
A lot of people come onto fornits and pretend to be parents. It happens often enough that you are likely to get accused of being a "troll" (internet drama queen)...
So, if you are a real parent, i would suggest asking for help in the "facilities questions" forum.
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Him threatening to kill himself:
Program interpretation: Manipulation
what happens: his attempts are ignored, on day he suceeds. i've seen it happen
Psychologist's interpretation: Cry for Help
what happens: he gets therapy, things improve
As for ombudsman: sounds good. It's part time and the kid lives at home. It may give him something he feels he's good at. What are his interests?
I talked to him about Ombudsman tonight. I thought he would like only 3 -4 hrs of school, zip through the material, and go home. He says he learns better by listening to teachers. He wants it spoon fed to him. Says he wants to go to "normal school."
His interests are guitar and his loser friends.
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His interests are guitar and his loser friends.
As well as masturbating and watching his parents have sex through the hole he drilled in ceiling. He's good with the electronical stuff. Being a young lad, watching your parent fornicate, is there anything better?
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Do what is right for your son and let someone else unravel the damage you keep inflicting on your child.
On any other forum that would be good advice, but here...
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What helped another mother on this site? Her son used to hang around with the same crowd. Eventually, one of his friends got in big trouble. He then realized he didn't want to go that route. Maybe you could engineer something like that. Hire a PI, take photos, deliver package to popo.
I think it's common sense.. but don't tell your kid you did this when the kid gets in trouble.
I have thought that I would love to see his dealer get busted. I looked up the drug laws in my state like 70'sRebel suggested. Ist offense pot dealing gets up to 5 years and dealing at school is up to another 10 years. The dealer is careful when he picks my son up and drops him off. I know a few cops. Maybe a "sting" is in order.
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why are you all such assholes? are you trying to bait parents into revealing things about themselves here so you can bash them openly? it only makes them angry and sad and so they seek comfort from the people who tell them what the want to hear who are edcons and lon woodbury and sou chef and kevin august and the like. we should be thanking this dad for even coming to this shithole forum and humoring us with his posts. we should be flattered that he asks us for advice about his kid!!! instead the regulars treat him like garbage in an attempt to silence him so the forum can return to its normal garbage talk about pot, heroin and prostitutes!!! do you all treat your real parents with such disrespect? if you do i hope they smack you in the mouth the next time they see you, because some of you truly disgust me!!!
dad trying... ignore the advice here and go get help from a real professional like oprah or dr phil or someone who has been trained in how to deal with out of control teens. you are asking an art major and korean school teacher for parenting advice, are you on crack??!!
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What helped another mother on this site? Her son used to hang around with the same crowd. Eventually, one of his friends got in big trouble. He then realized he didn't want to go that route. Maybe you could engineer something like that. Hire a PI, take photos, deliver package to popo.
I think it's common sense.. but don't tell your kid you did this when the kid gets in trouble.
I have thought that I would love to see his dealer get busted. I looked up the drug laws in my state like 70'sRebel suggested. Ist offense pot dealing gets up to 5 years and dealing at school is up to another 10 years. The dealer is careful when he picks my son up and drops him off. I know a few cops. Maybe a "sting" is in order.
Good way to get a kid killed!
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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Your kid's dealer is like a soccer mom ::bwahaha::, and we've got even more trollage on top of that!
This is a beautiful thread.
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Him threatening to kill himself:
Program interpretation: Manipulation
what happens: his attempts are ignored, on day he suceeds. i've seen it happen
Psychologist's interpretation: Cry for Help
what happens: he gets therapy, things improve
As for ombudsman: sounds good. It's part time and the kid lives at home. It may give him something he feels he's good at. What are his interests?
I talked to him about Ombudsman tonight. I thought he would like only 3 -4 hrs of school, zip through the material, and go home. He says he learns better by listening to teachers. He wants it spoon fed to him. Says he wants to go to "normal school."
His interests are guitar and his loser friends.
Well... Is he open to going to this school?
There is the problem of his friends. If he is interested in hanging around with them, trying to keep him from them will cause conflict. Perhaps you can think of a way his other interest (guitar) could be used to get him to hang around with a new bunch of friends.
Regarding the pot and his loser friends: how bad are they? Are your observations of them based on rumor? Are they often in trouble? How much pot does he smoke?
Quite a few of my IT coworkers were serious potheads when they were younger (morning, noon and night), but grew out of it... It is not physically addictive. If he was doing coke/xtc/meth/heroin, i would be worried, but as it is, you might be best off by telling him "not in the house".
What i'm getting at, is that maybe you can come to a compromise on some issues. He might get into trouble, but it's better now than when he's over 18. Unless he is dealing, in most states he'll get a slap on the wrist, and his record expunged when he turns 18.
If he feels he has a problem with something, it is important that he feels he can come to you. An open relationship has it's benefits in that respect. And as i said, he might learn, as another parent did on this site, that he does not want to go down the "road" that his friends are taking. You cannot force him to choose his friends and trying to will make likely make him rebel further. Dealing with this issue, i think is one of the hardest things you will have to do. Compromise is one suggestion. I'm sure others posters can come up with more.
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Your kid won't improve until he realizes he has a problem... He might not have a drug problem. If he's only smoking pot? Who hasn't done that when they were teenagers. As for his depression... that he needs help for.
That is IF he is in fact depressed...(let's not play pshrinky-dinks)
Could be he was just bummed out about getting hassled for getting high; happens to the best of us all the time.
I'm gonna catch a buzz right now.....with my dad!!! :lol:
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What helped another mother on this site? Her son used to hang around with the same crowd. Eventually, one of his friends got in big trouble. He then realized he didn't want to go that route. Maybe you could engineer something like that. Hire a PI, take photos, deliver package to popo.
If you're suggesting what I think you are, that's a pretty fucked up suggestion you just made there, psy.
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Your a psych major right?
Really? I'd say you still have a ways to go before I'd let you shrink my head, psy... :lol:
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This is what i would do if i were the kid's father: i would let him punch me until he gave me a bloody nose and/or black eye. If he didn't succeed. I might do it myself. The next morning. When he sees the black eye. what do you think he might feel? Might he feel guilty enough to want to get some anger management / therapy?
Damn! Yet another elaborately concocted ruse in attempt to prove some point... :rofl:
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How old is this kid and what is his size?
He is 15 / 6" long, medium width.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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What helped another mother on this site? Her son used to hang around with the same crowd. Eventually, one of his friends got in big trouble. He then realized he didn't want to go that route. Maybe you could engineer something like that. Hire a PI, take photos, deliver package to popo.
If you're suggesting what I think you are, that's a pretty fucked up suggestion you just made there, psy.
Many suggestions people throw out are equally fucked up. That's what is great about this particular type of troll. It brings out the fucked up advice and alternatives people are offering parents behind the scenes. Yikes!
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What we ought to be doing is trying to figure out where this king sized lunatic lives
Zul'Farrak. (Google.)
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This is what i would do if i were the kid's father: i would let him punch me until he gave me a bloody nose and/or black eye. If he didn't succeed. I might do it myself. The next morning. When he sees the black eye. what do you think he might feel? Might he feel guilty enough to want to get some anger management / therapy?
Damn! Yet another elaborately concocted ruse in attempt to prove some point... :rofl:
:rofl: :P :rofl:
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went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch
Dad~
I have to seriously disagree with psy's advise on this matter. This is abuse ... pure and simple. NO ONE has the right to "pummel" someone else for ANY reason.
You are sending your son the message that physical violence is an appropriate method of expressing his emotions. That it is OK to punch a human being when he doesn't get his way.
Someday, he will take that lesson to his marriage. When his wife does not give in to his protestations and emotional manipulations, he will resort to making her his human punching bag.
Perhaps someday when he is confronted by a boss, he will resort to physical violence to make his point.
Or God forbid, someday when he has a child of his own he will resort to punching when he has no better anger management skill.
You are not teaching your son to be responsible. You are not teaching him to respect others. You are not teaching him to manage his anger effectively.
Violence is always wrong. ALWAYS. Next time call 911 and let him suffer the real life consequences of pummeling someone.
PSY ~ I usually respect your perspectives, but you're way off on this one. If my husband was frustrated with me for something would you honestly advise me to just let him haul off and pummel me? Or would you begin to show me that this constitutes spousal abuse? I think we both know the answer to that question.
Read why i suggested it before condemning me (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=245564#245564). Would you rather he did what he did before: pummel the kid back!?!? That didn't work. At least here, the kid admitted he didn't feel good about it. Pummeling him back would make him feel justified and further the conflict. He might feel it's ok to attack his father since he fights back. Violence is ended when one party refuses to participate in it. Period. I'm not a Christian but there is a lot of wisdom in "turn the other cheek (offer him the other)" The father chose not to respond, and the kid felt bad about hitting him. From now on, if he attacks his father, he will do so dishonorably, by attacking a defenseless target.
The point is to make the kid feel shame. The point is for the kid to look at his father ignoring his blows and say to himself "could i do that, do i have the strength?"... The point is to make the kid realize that he hurt somebody else. Read my original advice before condemning me.
I aggree the kid probably needs anger management, but kids learn from their parents... if the father pummels the kid back.. it sends the message that pummeling each other is a rational, healthy way of dealing with family disagreements...
Maybe he needs anger management, but let's see if he stops on his own.
What good would the police do? What if the kid is stupid enough to fight back? There's a reason why it's called "less than lethal force", not "non-lethal force"... You want to put the kid in jail, and teach him that he's a total fuck-up. No. The solution is to teach the kid that he's worth something.. by giving him something positive to do, a sense of purpose. That's one reason why i think the computer school his father suggested (3 hours a day) would be a great idea for him. It only works if he finds it interesting though... which is why i asked what he was interested in.
psy,
Thanks for the advice. I failed to mention that my son actually said, "I'm sorry," about 20 minutes after the pummeling (can't call it a fight;-) We went for pizza and then to a movie after I picked him up today. He didn't even ask me to drop him off at the mall afterwards. He thanked me for the movie. He's a good kid at heart, always has been....just has some emotional problems and fell in with the wrong crowd. His therapist said he's functioning at the emotional level of a 12 year old.
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Robert, thanks, but he dislikes the military (not the troops, just the military life) and says he will run away if sent there. They won't take cadets unless the cadet wants to go anyway. We were going to send him to a military school at the start of the 9th grade for verbally fighting with his mother and he started having serious OCD symptoms. I guess he did have some problems before meeting the bad friends, but his 9th grade year went smoothly overall.
I think the thing youre forgetting is that you are the parent here, he is the child. So what if he doesnt want to go. Make him. If he threatens to run away wish him the best of luck. Hes threatening you with these things because youve shown youre willing to do anything to give him anything as a means of getting him to behave. The moment you finally stand up to your kid he'll back down.
Actually, the military school we were going to send him to, Camden Military Academy, requires the new cadet to sign the application with the parent. And his OCD symptoms were very real, and I doubt he could function there. Also, they require a year's tuition up front and it's nonrefundable.
I have stood up to him every time. Several times it resulted in fist fights. I always win, with him having an aching face or bloody nose. That worked for awhile, but now he wants his way more than he fears losing a fight.
Reposted to prevent editting. 2-11-07tsw
You still think this guy is real?
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So, if you are a real parent, i would suggest asking for help in the "facilities questions" forum.
Smartest thing you've said all night, psy.
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Good job[/i].
This is some real child abuse advocacy going on right here. Take notes everyone, this is how shit gets done 'round here.
Authorities are on the line, Dad Trying get ready for Homeland Security to swoop in on your child abusing sadistic ass. Play times over, daddy.
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Rule 1 of plausible fictional characters: Don't contradict yourself.
::noway::
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Stop messing it up guys... I want to keep giving my off the cuff parenting advice... send your kid tot he MTV show juvies. That should scare that boy straight
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why are you all such assholes? are you trying to bait parents into revealing things about themselves here so you can bash them openly? it only makes them angry and sad and so they seek comfort from the people who tell them what the want to hear who are edcons and lon woodbury and sou chef and kevin august and the like. we should be thanking this dad for even coming to this shithole forum and humoring us with his posts. we should be flattered that he asks us for advice about his kid!!! instead the regulars treat him like garbage in an attempt to silence him so the forum can return to its normal garbage talk about pot, heroin and prostitutes!!! do you all treat your real parents with such disrespect? if you do i hope they smack you in the mouth the next time they see you, because some of you truly disgust me!!!
dad trying... ignore the advice here and go get help from a real professional like oprah or dr phil or someone who has been trained in how to deal with out of control teens. you are asking an art major and korean school teacher for parenting advice, are you on crack??!!
:cry2: :cry2: :cry2: :cry2: ::boohoo:: ::boohoo:: ::both:: ::both:: ::both:: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha:: ::bigsmilebounce::
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What helped another mother on this site? Her son used to hang around with the same crowd. Eventually, one of his friends got in big trouble. He then realized he didn't want to go that route. Maybe you could engineer something like that. Hire a PI, take photos, deliver package to popo.
If you're suggesting what I think you are, that's a pretty fucked up suggestion you just made there, psy.
Milk has suggested the same thing before. I agree. It is fucked up... but how open do you think his father is to taking your suggestions, with a name like that. Hmm? If this father is upset about his kid smoking Ganja, Ganja.
Let me be clear: I have no problems with adults smoking pot. At all. I think it should be legalized. I think it's harmless, it opens the mind to alternative modes of thinking, it increases creativity, it makes me ambidextrous for some odd reason.... you know all this. I do have a problem with kids smoking it however. I don't expect them to listen to people who say "don't do drugs BAAH!!" but i realize that if a kid is hanging out with dealers, who see pot as a drug (like any other), and not an herb... what else might they be involved/approve of? That's why i'm asking how bad these kids are. Are they gang members? Let's not pretend they don't exist.
If they're just re-selling a quarter to a friend, i don't think his father should do what I suggested... but if they're running 8balls of coke along with the pounds of pot... now that is dangerous.
Look. I didn't drink until i became 18, i didn't try pot until i was 18. One was legal, and one was practically legal, where i lived at the time. That is not the case here.
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I have thought that I would love to see his dealer get busted. I looked up the drug laws in my state like 70'sRebel suggested. Ist offense pot dealing gets up to 5 years and dealing at school is up to another 10 years. The dealer is careful when he picks my son up and drops him off. I know a few cops. Maybe a "sting" is in order.
Why not try telling him you'd like for him to stay away from your son or something? Why this need to set up some sting? I would think twice about this and the likelihood that it would backfire anyway.
Good advice there, psy.. great job.
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went into a rage and started pummeling my face as I lie on the couch. I took psy's suggestion and let him hit me some more after I got off the couch
Dad~
I have to seriously disagree with psy's advise on this matter. This is abuse ... pure and simple. NO ONE has the right to "pummel" someone else for ANY reason.
You are sending your son the message that physical violence is an appropriate method of expressing his emotions. That it is OK to punch a human being when he doesn't get his way.
Someday, he will take that lesson to his marriage. When his wife does not give in to his protestations and emotional manipulations, he will resort to making her his human punching bag.
Perhaps someday when he is confronted by a boss, he will resort to physical violence to make his point.
Or God forbid, someday when he has a child of his own he will resort to punching when he has no better anger management skill.
You are not teaching your son to be responsible. You are not teaching him to respect others. You are not teaching him to manage his anger effectively.
Violence is always wrong. ALWAYS. Next time call 911 and let him suffer the real life consequences of pummeling someone.
PSY ~ I usually respect your perspectives, but you're way off on this one. If my husband was frustrated with me for something would you honestly advise me to just let him haul off and pummel me? Or would you begin to show me that this constitutes spousal abuse? I think we both know the answer to that question.
Read why i suggested it before condemning me (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=245564#245564). Would you rather he did what he did before: pummel the kid back!?!? That didn't work. At least here, the kid admitted he didn't feel good about it. Pummeling him back would make him feel justified and further the conflict. He might feel it's ok to attack his father since he fights back. Violence is ended when one party refuses to participate in it. Period. I'm not a Christian but there is a lot of wisdom in "turn the other cheek (offer him the other)" The father chose not to respond, and the kid felt bad about hitting him. From now on, if he attacks his father, he will do so dishonorably, by attacking a defenseless target.
The point is to make the kid feel shame. The point is for the kid to look at his father ignoring his blows and say to himself "could i do that, do i have the strength?"... The point is to make the kid realize that he hurt somebody else. Read my original advice before condemning me.
I aggree the kid probably needs anger management, but kids learn from their parents... if the father pummels the kid back.. it sends the message that pummeling each other is a rational, healthy way of dealing with family disagreements...
Maybe he needs anger management, but let's see if he stops on his own.
What good would the police do? What if the kid is stupid enough to fight back? There's a reason why it's called "less than lethal force", not "non-lethal force"... You want to put the kid in jail, and teach him that he's a total fuck-up. No. The solution is to teach the kid that he's worth something.. by giving him something positive to do, a sense of purpose. That's one reason why i think the computer school his father suggested (3 hours a day) would be a great idea for him. It only works if he finds it interesting though... which is why i asked what he was interested in.
psy,
Thanks for the advice. I failed to mention that my son actually said, "I'm sorry," about 20 minutes after the pummeling (can't call it a fight;-) We went for pizza and then to a movie after I picked him up today. He didn't even ask me to drop him off at the mall afterwards. He thanked me for the movie. He's a good kid at heart, always has been....just has some emotional problems and fell in with the wrong crowd. His therapist said he's functioning at the emotional level of a 12 year old.
My therapist said the same thing at the time. When i had my next evaluation when i turned 18, i was functioning past my actual age. Things do improve.
Try hanging around with him more. Try doing things he likes doing. I think you're headed in the right direction with what you are doing.
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Look. I didn't drink until i became 18, i didn't try pot until i was 18. One was legal, and one was practically legal, where i lived at the time. That is not the case here.
Fuck that shit; not me. :rofl:
I started partying early. I was a child of the late 70's...
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What helped another mother on this site? Her son used to hang around with the same crowd. Eventually, one of his friends got in big trouble. He then realized he didn't want to go that route. Maybe you could engineer something like that. Hire a PI, take photos, deliver package to popo.
I think it's common sense.. but don't tell your kid you did this when the kid gets in trouble.
I have thought that I would love to see his dealer get busted. I looked up the drug laws in my state like 70'sRebel suggested. Ist offense pot dealing gets up to 5 years and dealing at school is up to another 10 years. The dealer is careful when he picks my son up and drops him off. I know a few cops. Maybe a "sting" is in order.
I wouldn't do it then. 5 to 10 years is too much. If you can get a cop friend to take the stuff away and give the kid a warning... that might be more suitable. Kids make mistakes. You wouldn't want your kid in jail for 10 years would you?
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.. it got him to think about it a bit more than if he was tending to his bloody nose.
I have to agree with your opinion now. Him losing the fights allowed him to think of himself as the "victim." Now he's the bad guy. From now on I'll just grab him and talk to him until he calms down, if this happens again. I suppose my first reaction was wrong. Who woulda thunk good advice come from the internet? Thanks.
PS, forgive my slow responses. I live in the sticks and only have dial-up at home. You realize how slow this site is if you have dial-up.
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What helped another mother on this site? Her son used to hang around with the same crowd. Eventually, one of his friends got in big trouble. He then realized he didn't want to go that route. Maybe you could engineer something like that. Hire a PI, take photos, deliver package to popo.
I think it's common sense.. but don't tell your kid you did this when the kid gets in trouble.
I have thought that I would love to see his dealer get busted. I looked up the drug laws in my state like 70'sRebel suggested. Ist offense pot dealing gets up to 5 years and dealing at school is up to another 10 years. The dealer is careful when he picks my son up and drops him off. I know a few cops. Maybe a "sting" is in order.
Good way to get a kid killed!
That too!
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There is a private company that will arrest your teen for drug posession and sale and send him away for as long as you want. This is called an escort company and they charge about fifteen hundred dollars. Do you have fifteen hundred dollars? If you do, your problem could be gone within a couple days. Poof, no trace of him for years, if you like. Doesn't that sound tempting? Sure, he will be wharehoused, and strangers making minimum wage will be dealing with him, but hey, at least you don't!
So do what you know deep down you know you are going to do anyways. Pick up the phone and call an escort company, and have your son dragged away in chains to be punished for his terrible action of meddling in illegal substances. Then get him on a bunch of prescriptiong drugs for depression and anxiety... lock him up for drugs and then pump him full of some other ones that cost a hundred times more. Come on man, you know you want to do it. Go ahead. Pick up the phone. And please, use your cell phone video camera to capture the moment your son is taken from your home and post it on youtube. We could use the entertainment!
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Look. I didn't drink until i became 18, i didn't try pot until i was 18. One was legal, and one was practically legal, where i lived at the time. That is not the case here.
Fuck that shit; not me. :rofl:
I started partying early. I was a child of the late 70's...
I have never tried alcohol or pot. I didn't know I was talking to a bunch of druggies!
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.. it got him to think about it a bit more than if he was tending to his bloody nose.
I have to agree with your opinion now. Him losing the fights allowed him to think of himself as the "victim." Now he's the bad guy. From now on I'll just grab him and talk to him until he calms down, if this happens again. I suppose my first reaction was wrong. Who woulda thunk good advice come from the internet? Thanks.
PS, forgive my slow responses. I live in the sticks and only have dial-up at home. You realize how slow this site is if you have dial-up.
Oh this site is slow on broadband... a lot of posters on here.
PS: If you can't stand the insults and stuff in this forum, you can always ask for help in the facilities questions forum. "toubled teen industry" forum is completely unmoderated...
edit: cancel that. TSW isn't in the mood apparantly
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What helped another mother on this site? Her son used to hang around with the same crowd. Eventually, one of his friends got in big trouble. He then realized he didn't want to go that route. Maybe you could engineer something like that. Hire a PI, take photos, deliver package to popo.
If you're suggesting what I think you are, that's a pretty fucked up suggestion you just made there, psy.
Many suggestions people throw out are equally fucked up. That's what is great about this particular type of troll. It brings out the fucked up advice and alternatives people are offering parents behind the scenes. Yikes!
Good point, I wouldn't argue that.
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This is what i would do if i were the kid's father: i would let him punch me until he gave me a bloody nose and/or black eye. If he didn't succeed. I might do it myself. The next morning. When he sees the black eye. what do you think he might feel? Might he feel guilty enough to want to get some anger management / therapy?
Damn! Yet another elaborately concocted ruse in attempt to prove some point... :rofl:
:rofl: :P :rofl:
::bwahaha:: :rofl: ::bwahaha2:: ::deal:: ::noway:: ::bandit:: ::bwahaha::
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Look. I didn't drink until i became 18, i didn't try pot until i was 18. One was legal, and one was practically legal, where i lived at the time. That is not the case here.
Fuck that shit; not me. :rofl:
I started partying early. I was a child of the late 70's...
I have never tried alcohol or pot. I didn't know I was talking to a bunch of druggies!
:rofl: 8-) :P ::bwahaha:: :smokin:
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.. it got him to think about it a bit more than if he was tending to his bloody nose.
I have to agree with your opinion now. Him losing the fights allowed him to think of himself as the "victim." Now he's the bad guy. From now on I'll just grab him and talk to him until he calms down, if this happens again. I suppose my first reaction was wrong. Who woulda thunk good advice come from the internet? Thanks.
PS, forgive my slow responses. I live in the sticks and only have dial-up at home. You realize how slow this site is if you have dial-up.
Because he is a victim you asshole.
And he's not doing it anymore. He realizes his first reaction was wrong. Ok. So calm down.
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(http://http://www.southfayette.org/schools/ms/img/dare_lion.jpg)
So it does work...
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His interests are guitar and his loser friends.
As well as masturbating and watching his parents have sex through the hole he drilled in ceiling. He's good with the electronical stuff. Being a young lad, watching your parent fornicate, is there anything better?
Well then, he's been disappointed lately. His antics have put a lot of stress on me and mom. lol
PS, it's not fornication when you're married.
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Milk has suggested the same thing before. I agree. It is fucked up... but how open do you think his father is to taking your suggestions, with a name like that. Hmm? If this father is upset about his kid smoking Ganja, Ganja.
He probably didn't really think twice about it until you so thoughtfully pointed it out. :roll:
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(http://http://www.southfayette.org/schools/ms/img/dare_lion.jpg)
NO FURRIES
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But he's so cute. And look, he has no pants on. :oops:
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If they're just re-selling a quarter to a friend, i don't think his father should do what I suggested... but if they're running 8balls of coke along with the pounds of pot... now that is dangerous.
That's not what you said at first...
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Emo fags.
repoted to prevent editing2/11/06
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Milk has suggested the same thing before. I agree. It is fucked up... but how open do you think his father is to taking your suggestions, with a name like that. Hmm? If this father is upset about his kid smoking Ganja, Ganja.
He probably didn't really think twice about it until you so thoughtfully pointed it out. :roll:
Oh i noticed it, Bob Marley.
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If they're just re-selling a quarter to a friend, i don't think his father should do what I suggested... but if they're running 8balls of coke along with the pounds of pot... now that is dangerous.
That's not what you said at first...
Its funny when other people who never did anything that they are advising are talking about stuff you did and they are wrong. Comical really -- Viva Mexica aribe La Raza! :P
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I wouldn't do it then. 5 to 10 years is too much. If you can get a cop friend to take the stuff away and give the kid a warning... that might be more suitable. Kids make mistakes. You wouldn't want your kid in jail for 10 years would you?
Finally you're talking sense, psy.
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There is a private company that will arrest your teen for drug posession and sale and send him away for as long as you want. This is called an escort company and they charge about fifteen hundred dollars. Do you have fifteen hundred dollars? If you do, your problem could be gone within a couple days. Poof, no trace of him for years, if you like. Doesn't that sound tempting? Sure, he will be wharehoused, and strangers making minimum wage will be dealing with him, but hey, at least you don't!
So do what you know deep down you know you are going to do anyways. Pick up the phone and call an escort company, and have your son dragged away in chains to be punished for his terrible action of meddling in illegal substances. Then get him on a bunch of prescriptiong drugs for depression and anxiety... lock him up for drugs and then pump him full of some other ones that cost a hundred times more. Come on man, you know you want to do it. Go ahead. Pick up the phone. And please, use your cell phone video camera to capture the moment your son is taken from your home and post it on youtube. We could use the entertainment!
I love these ironic posts; just saying.. kudos, anon.
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Milk has suggested the same thing before. I agree. It is fucked up... but how open do you think his father is to taking your suggestions, with a name like that. Hmm? If this father is upset about his kid smoking Ganja, Ganja.
He probably didn't really think twice about it until you so thoughtfully pointed it out. :roll:
Oh i noticed it, Bob Marley.
If the dad is worth his salt he will seek advice from people in the know. That means people who smoked pot when they were teens! With a name like Ganja it should be even more obvious to parents that, hey, here's a poster who knows about smoking pot. Or they can ask someone who never smoked pot as a teen... what makes more sense to you?
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By the way>>> I call Troll and this entire thread.
:tup:
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Milk has suggested the same thing before. I agree. It is fucked up... but how open do you think his father is to taking your suggestions, with a name like that. Hmm? If this father is upset about his kid smoking Ganja, Ganja.
He probably didn't really think twice about it until you so thoughtfully pointed it out. :roll:
Oh i noticed it, Bob Marley.
:rofl: :lol: 8-)
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Really please take this next line personally.
It is in regards to his loser friends comment.
But honestly go fuck yourself.
You are 100 percent your child's problem. Get your head out of your ass. Stop beating your son into submission, and start cherishing the things he is good at. You after all taught him to act the way he does, now start using positive praise to bring him along in a positive direction.
Only a total asshole has the mox to call kids losers. I'm a total asshole. I enjoy being a total asshole. Yet even I refuse to call kid's losers. Got no problem with calling parents losers.
I sure as hell hope to christ you aren't saying that crap around your son, or anyone else in the world. No one needs to be subjected to that sort of verbal abuse. Not only do you confess to beating him into submission you refer to his friends as losers. What do you think your son thinks he is in your eyes then?
I'm all about helping parents. But you have absolutely no right to be a parent if you continue your prevailing attitude. Find a relative who can do your job for you. Do what is right for your son and let someone else unravel the damage you keep inflicting on your child.
I've had it with YOU. You think "friends" who sell my son pot and cigs at school and encourage him to skip class are "good" friends?
I'm calling "ASSHOLE" on you.
Sorry, everyone else.
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I've long since pondered a thread for such posts. "All Time most amusing posts" thread. Something in on that vien.
Sure, like a sort of "best-of" or something...
Although they're funnier when interspersed throughout threads like this one.
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Really please take this next line personally.
It is in regards to his loser friends comment.
But honestly go fuck yourself.
You are 100 percent your child's problem. Get your head out of your ass. Stop beating your son into submission, and start cherishing the things he is good at. You after all taught him to act the way he does, now start using positive praise to bring him along in a positive direction.
Only a total asshole has the mox to call kids losers. I'm a total asshole. I enjoy being a total asshole. Yet even I refuse to call kid's losers. Got no problem with calling parents losers.
I sure as hell hope to christ you aren't saying that crap around your son, or anyone else in the world. No one needs to be subjected to that sort of verbal abuse. Not only do you confess to beating him into submission you refer to his friends as losers. What do you think your son thinks he is in your eyes then?
I'm all about helping parents. But you have absolutely no right to be a parent if you continue your prevailing attitude. Find a relative who can do your job for you. Do what is right for your son and let someone else unravel the damage you keep inflicting on your child.
I've had it with YOU. You think "friends" who sell my son pot and cigs at school and encourage him to skip class are "good" friends?
I'm calling "ASSHOLE" on you.
Sorry, everyone else.
I am sorry to inform you that you have become irrelevant and boring within your own thread. This happens sometimes. Please take your ticket to the front counter to reclaim your coat, thank you.
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Really please take this next line personally.
It is in regards to his loser friends comment.
But honestly go fuck yourself.
You are 100 percent your child's problem. Get your head out of your ass. Stop beating your son into submission, and start cherishing the things he is good at. You after all taught him to act the way he does, now start using positive praise to bring him along in a positive direction.
Only a total asshole has the mox to call kids losers. I'm a total asshole. I enjoy being a total asshole. Yet even I refuse to call kid's losers. Got no problem with calling parents losers.
I sure as hell hope to christ you aren't saying that crap around your son, or anyone else in the world. No one needs to be subjected to that sort of verbal abuse. Not only do you confess to beating him into submission you refer to his friends as losers. What do you think your son thinks he is in your eyes then?
I'm all about helping parents. But you have absolutely no right to be a parent if you continue your prevailing attitude. Find a relative who can do your job for you. Do what is right for your son and let someone else unravel the damage you keep inflicting on your child.
I've had it with YOU. You think "friends" who sell my son pot and cigs at school and encourage him to skip class are "good" friends?
I'm calling "ASSHOLE" on you.
Sorry, everyone else.
I think both of you have valid points. TSW, is an asshole... but I don't necessarily thinking you should be calling your kid's friends "losers"... what would some other parents say about your kid?
Besides. Kids who are called "losers", become "losers". Why? If you have a bad rap you might as well make it fit.
What does your son see them as? If your son sees them as friends... That's hard to change. The more control you try to exert over him regarding his friends, the more you will make him want to hang around with them. He's at a stage in his life when he is trying to assert his independance/identity... and teens don't always do that in the best way.
My advice... and i don't expect you to take it: Try and guide, rather than control him.
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Moronic Daddykins
I've had it with YOU. You think "friends" who sell my son pot and cigs at school and encourage him to skip class are "good" friends?
I'm calling "ASSHOLE" on you.
Sorry, everyone else.
Excuse but now you are blaming his friends for his own behaviors? Behaviors that by all accounts are pretty damn tame? Your son is the one who decides to skip school, your son is the one who buys the pot. Your son is the one who makes the decision to do whatever the hell it is that he wants to do.
You on the other hand have insisted on resorting to violence to subdue a 15 year old boy.
Damn skippy I am an asshole. That is by personal choice. Psy, MGDP, Ganja, and the rest didn't pressure me into being an asshole. I take full responsibility for being an asshole onto myself. I don't shift it off onto others.
Don't coming rolling up onto fornits asking for advice when the real problem isn't your son. The real problem is you. You are what is known as a walking clusterfuck of a parent.
You physically abuse your child and call it self defense.
No telling what the hell else you do to him. You don't need advice you need CPS to come take away your son.
What good is it telling him this?
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Trying Dad. You're probably going to get the best advice asking DJ for advice directly via PM. You can ask me for advice as well but he is the qualified one. This thread is going to hell.
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I've had it with YOU. You think "friends" who sell my son pot and cigs at school and encourage him to skip class are "good" friends?
Ah, I wanted to get to this. Look, even if they ARE losers, it doesn't do you or your son much good to dismiss them as such. Just tell your son what you don't like about them; no need to name-call, you know?
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Actually, the military school we were going to send him to, Camden Military Academy, requires the new cadet to sign the application with the parent. And his OCD symptoms were very real, and I doubt he could function there. Also, they require a year's tuition up front and it's nonrefundable.
I have stood up to him every time. Several times it resulted in fist fights. I always win, with him having an aching face or bloody nose. That worked for awhile, but now he wants his way more than he fears losing a fight.
Actually fighting with your child in that way is nothing more than abuse. Do feel free to stop at anytime. You are an adult. You need not have to resort to violence to get your child to respect you. What sort of message are you sending your son when you beat him down?
I'll tell you. After all I sent it a few times myself when working in a program.
Respect me out of fear.
And guess what it is backfiring on you. Why? Because the amounts of fear you are bringing just aren't sufficient to quell his nature. You need not resort to violence to quell violence. It only perpetuates a viscious cycle that will escalate.
I know this personally. It happened to me. I used restraints to quell a rebellion in my group when working at a program. 3 weeks later it had gone from 1 restraint to an average of 17 restraints a day. It took a lot of hard work on my part to turn that situation around. It was after that I started finding other ways to approach the boys. Not the typical jump, scream, leap, and pound into sand technique just because they got pissy and threw a rock at me.
Damn man.. You really have put yourself, and your son in a nasty position, and you want to compound it with a Military school????
YOU NEED MENTAL HELP MORE THAN YOUR SON DOES!
Chill out. He throws the first punches. I defend myself. What should I do, run? Geeze, you need help yourself if you think I enjoy having to fight my own son.
reposted 2-11-07tsw
You are truely a nutjob. I can't really blame your parents for sending you to a TBS. You probably drove them so crazy that they just wanted you gone.
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Actually, the military school we were going to send him to, Camden Military Academy, requires the new cadet to sign the application with the parent. And his OCD symptoms were very real, and I doubt he could function there. Also, they require a year's tuition up front and it's nonrefundable.
I have stood up to him every time. Several times it resulted in fist fights. I always win, with him having an aching face or bloody nose. That worked for awhile, but now he wants his way more than he fears losing a fight.
Actually fighting with your child in that way is nothing more than abuse. Do feel free to stop at anytime. You are an adult. You need not have to resort to violence to get your child to respect you. What sort of message are you sending your son when you beat him down?
I'll tell you. After all I sent it a few times myself when working in a program.
Respect me out of fear.
And guess what it is backfiring on you. Why? Because the amounts of fear you are bringing just aren't sufficient to quell his nature. You need not resort to violence to quell violence. It only perpetuates a viscious cycle that will escalate.
I know this personally. It happened to me. I used restraints to quell a rebellion in my group when working at a program. 3 weeks later it had gone from 1 restraint to an average of 17 restraints a day. It took a lot of hard work on my part to turn that situation around. It was after that I started finding other ways to approach the boys. Not the typical jump, scream, leap, and pound into sand technique just because they got pissy and threw a rock at me.
Damn man.. You really have put yourself, and your son in a nasty position, and you want to compound it with a Military school????
YOU NEED MENTAL HELP MORE THAN YOUR SON DOES!
Chill out. He throws the first punches. I defend myself. What should I do, run? Geeze, you need help yourself if you think I enjoy having to fight my own son.
reposted 2-11-07tsw
You are truely a nutjob. I can't really blame your parents for sending you to a TBS. You probably drove them so crazy that they just wanted you gone.
uh.. he was staff at a tbs. not a student.. staff
still want to send your kid off?
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You are truely a nutjob. I can't really blame your parents for sending you to a TBS. You probably drove them so crazy that they just wanted you gone.
This has been fun... So who are you really?
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This thread is going to hell.
It was meant to by design from post#1. :wink:
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Moronic Daddykins
I've had it with YOU. You think "friends" who sell my son pot and cigs at school and encourage him to skip class are "good" friends?
I'm calling "ASSHOLE" on you.
Sorry, everyone else.
Excuse but now you are blaming his friends for his own behaviors? Behaviors that by all accounts are pretty damn tame? Your son is the one who decides to skip school, your son is the one who buys the pot. Your son is the one who makes the decision to do whatever the hell it is that he wants to do.
You on the other hand have insisted on resorting to violence to subdue a 15 year old boy.
Damn skippy I am an asshole. That is by personal choice. Psy, MGDP, Ganja, and the rest didn't pressure me into being an asshole. I take full responsibility for being an asshole onto myself. I don't shift it off onto others.
Don't coming rolling up onto fornits asking for advice when the real problem isn't your son. The real problem is you. You are what is known as a walking clusterfuck of a parent.
You physically abuse your child and call it self defense.
No telling what the hell else you do to him. You don't need advice you need CPS to come take away your son.
when trolling and someone questions who you are.. attaack them .. then they get all emotional and forget the earlier point that you werent real.. come on tsw you know better!
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This thread is going to hell.
It was meant to by design from post#1. :wink:
Well stated! *wink*
Maybe we could learn from this next time someone tries to jerk our collective chain, eh?
Probably not though...
Somehow I doubt it...
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No doubt. But the same scheme also works both ways.
should of known.. this is one of those multi leveled, twelfth dimension trolls...
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Maybe we could learn from this next time someone tries to jerk our collective chain, eh?
Probably not though...
Somehow I doubt it...
Because the infinite chain of fornits inevitabilities could not exist without that chain.. it wouldn't exist if it weren't meant to be pulled. come on baby k, pull my chain.
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troll of a troll in the nth dimesion out past pluto.
Where is Mom Trying?
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Because the infinite chain of fornits inevitabilities could not exist without that chain.. it wouldn't exist if it weren't meant to be pulled. come on baby k, pull my chain.
(http://http://www.uncg.edu/%7Ewhanthon/optical_illusions_may06/bellring2.jpg)
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Thats a cool chain.
Id pull on that any day.
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Me too, unless it opened a door with something awful behind it.
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.. even if it did. It would be worth it.
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(http://http://www.lincolnseligman.co.uk/images/infinity.jpg)
bam..shit comes out of the grit trying to reach up and inevitably ends up back in the shit i was trying to escape damn dirt.. that tree looks nice though.. not like the sky.. that shit is heavenly.
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Really please take this next line personally.
It is in regards to his loser friends comment.
But honestly go fuck yourself.
You are 100 percent your child's problem. Get your head out of your ass. Stop beating your son into submission, and start cherishing the things he is good at. You after all taught him to act the way he does, now start using positive praise to bring him along in a positive direction.
Only a total asshole has the mox to call kids losers. I'm a total asshole. I enjoy being a total asshole. Yet even I refuse to call kid's losers. Got no problem with calling parents losers.
I sure as hell hope to christ you aren't saying that crap around your son, or anyone else in the world. No one needs to be subjected to that sort of verbal abuse. Not only do you confess to beating him into submission you refer to his friends as losers. What do you think your son thinks he is in your eyes then?
I'm all about helping parents. But you have absolutely no right to be a parent if you continue your prevailing attitude. Find a relative who can do your job for you. Do what is right for your son and let someone else unravel the damage you keep inflicting on your child.
I've had it with YOU. You think "friends" who sell my son pot and cigs at school and encourage him to skip class are "good" friends?
I'm calling "ASSHOLE" on you.
Sorry, everyone else.
I think both of you have valid points. TSW, is an asshole... but I don't necessarily thinking you should be calling your kid's friends "losers"... what would some other parents say about your kid?
Besides. Kids who are called "losers", become "losers". Why? If you have a bad rap you might as well make it fit.
What does your son see them as? If your son sees them as friends... That's hard to change. The more control you try to exert over him regarding his friends, the more you will make him want to hang around with them. He's at a stage in his life when he is trying to assert his independance/identity... and teens don't always do that in the best way.
My advice... and i don't expect you to take it: Try and guide, rather than control him.
psy,
I agree with that. I don't call them losers around him. When I talk about them to him, I describe them......"I don't like you hanging around people who sell pot, etc." I think he likes the excitement. He had a good friend before who came over to the house, went to movies with him, etc. Now he says that kid is boring. Actually, he had 3 decent friends before. So it's not like he HAD to find friends. I know that teens need friends to hang with at school and elsewhere.
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Moronic Daddykins
I've had it with YOU. You think "friends" who sell my son pot and cigs at school and encourage him to skip class are "good" friends?
I'm calling "ASSHOLE" on you.
Sorry, everyone else.
Excuse but now you are blaming his friends for his own behaviors? Behaviors that by all accounts are pretty damn tame? Your son is the one who decides to skip school, your son is the one who buys the pot. Your son is the one who makes the decision to do whatever the hell it is that he wants to do.
You on the other hand have insisted on resorting to violence to subdue a 15 year old boy.
Damn skippy I am an asshole. That is by personal choice. Psy, MGDP, Ganja, and the rest didn't pressure me into being an asshole. I take full responsibility for being an asshole onto myself. I don't shift it off onto others.
Don't coming rolling up onto fornits asking for advice when the real problem isn't your son. The real problem is you. You are what is known as a walking clusterfuck of a parent.
You physically abuse your child and call it self defense.
No telling what the hell else you do to him. You don't need advice you need CPS to come take away your son.
Who are you talking to? I'm not real, remember?
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When I am in a pickle, I sit on the fattest cucumber I can find... make sure it's clean, don't want sand burn.
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Posters want the parents to be real... so they can unload their shit on surrogate parents because their own parents won't listen. That's why they get so much attention around here. Look at CCM get railed on and she doesn't even support programs really, but then Karen does, but everyone loves her. Funny shit. (not really thou)
like TSW said. either this man is a child abuser who beats his kid. or hes fake. I am going to go with option number 2.. he doesnt seem stupid enough to admit to serious crimes online.
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Personally I'm hoping this clown isn't real. It scares me that there really are people of that sort running around in the world.
Who really needs to trade punches with a 15 year old boy? Walk away and don't reinforce the violence with more violence.
As far as CCM Girl goes there is more to her story than that. She represents a trend that I've been seeing for awhile now. Its called the middle ground trend, or that is at least what I call it. Lots of advocates get that tendency when they realize exactly what they are up against. These TBS programs aren't going to go away overnight. The advocates get frustrated and being to think that maybe if only the good programs are around things will get better.
It happened to me. Mind you I never voiced that on fornits out of good common sense.
I came out of it. Now I am back to "normal". I now hate all programs again.
They aren't going away. We are a fucking MINISCULE minority of people here. This is mainstream shit. We are like the conspiraacy theorists on their website who think the revolution is about to happen at any time. Reality check, it ain't fucking happening any time soon. Most kids coming out don't want to be a mouth piece for some bat shit crazy loony mother advocate, or get involved in lawsuits, or even think about that shit. The kids who DO want to talk about it, are the brainwashed fanatics who don't shut up about it until they are 35, have no friends, never had sex or got drunk and have a mid life crisis, only there's is a crisis of having no life! Fuck those motherfuckers, and by those motherfuckers you know who I am talking about and it can be anyone. ANYONE! :roll:
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Yeah, you get it. I am saying, 90% of people who know the truth about WWASPS and programs like that think its abusive and should be shut down.
But like you say the advocates and most anti program people are hawking some other option whether it be a program lite or some other radical option. How many people actually understand the extent of what's happening to today's teenagers, how their freedoms are being stripped from all directions? How the pressures are increasing to inhumane levels? How they hypocrisy that surrounds them just screams to their soul - cry out for freedom and justice... do what your heart desires!! Not many.. not many at all. Most are saying send em to wilderness or an RTC or scare them by calling the cops. What's the next new age light option? We should start a pool bet on it.
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as far as the ombudsman program goes, you may want to check to see if they'll let him try an example computer model. he may find he likes it better than a teacher gabbing to him at the front of the class... I'm willing to bet some of the instruction is computer video where he would wear headphones to hear instructions etc. similar to spoonfeeding as you said
as far as whoever being a troll whatever....
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Remember though its the middle ground tendency these folks fall into so easily. Program A isn't a wwasp so it must be better. Just go look at the Why fornits is superior in all ways to Antiwwasp thread. You see an entire forum on Antiwwasp that for the most part seems to be buying into the notion that if it isn't wwasp it can't be so bad. Then over here on fornits we have people saying, "lets not waste money at all. Let us scare the kids straight ourselves right in our own homes."
It is just another manifestation of the middle ground tendency I've been yakking about. We all hate fear based tactics and other techniques to gain complaince, but for some reason we feel the need to endorse them on a home level? Sounds to me like we've decided to take the program out of the program and try it out at home. Might as well write up a guide to BMing your kid.
Step 1) Build dog cage in back yard.
Step 2) Pepper spray must be purchased.
Step 3) hose down kid with pepper spray and lock him in dog cage.
I've seen alot more of this sort of thing on fornits. I say if your child is out of control in a violent fashion I want you to call the police. Don't waste anyone's time with an attempt to scare your kid straight. That bullcrap doesn't work in a program and it isn't likely to work at home.
Also for reference:
I say burn all the programs down.
I also say pass a constitutional amendment ensuring due process rights for children. They pay the same sales taxes we do.. so its a natural extension of the founding father's arguements for equal representation for taxation.
Don't even need to take it that far though. Just the right thing to do to keep these kids out of hell hole TBS's where they parents ship them off with no regard for the rights of the child.
Werd to your mother.
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They aren't going away. We are a fucking MINISCULE minority of people here. This is mainstream shit.
Bullshit.
The only reason there's relatively few posters on Fornits is because the subject matter scares the shit out of sane parents.
It's the programmies who are in the fucking minority.
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(http://http://www.lincolnseligman.co.uk/images/infinity.jpg)
bam..shit comes out of the grit trying to reach up and inevitably ends up back in the shit i was trying to escape damn dirt.. that tree looks nice though.. not like the sky.. that shit is heavenly.
Eloquently portrayed (in pictures and words).
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I tried to help him get a job, but he couldn't find one available for a 15 year old. He actually wanted a job, but I think he wanted to get a car to be more "free."
You say that like it's a bad thing???
So, your kid isn't following your idea of what he ought to be doing with himself. And you're just certain he's going to fall on his ass and be a failure for life unless he does?
Too late, there's nothing you can do to avert this impending disaster. Your little boy has decided to grow up. His elders have failed to impress him. I can understand that. I'm not very impressed w/ my generation at all either. The last damned thing you want to do is join forces with the various bullies and do-gooders who are trying to trash his life for him.
If the kid is passionate about music and he thinks he's ready to make it in the work force, let him try. You may be pleasantly surprised.
In most states, you can register him as homeschooled till he hits 16 and then there's usually no attendance requirement. If he changes his mind and wants to go to college, he's got a couple of years to repair his transcript by taking a couple of remedial courses at the local JC. This he will do of his own free will and in the company of other kids who are willingly working toward college or at least a trade. Contrast that w/ the Allice in Wonderland, Zero Tolerance lunacy that is day to day life in our much vaunted education system.
I guarantee you none of the coercive behavior mod programs are going to help him to become a productive, capable adult. That's not what they're designed to do. They're designed to break the will of an individual and force compliance and dependency. You can go from one to the next to the next and they all have slightly different marketing pitches designed to appeal to a variety of cultural styles. But, at the end of the day, there's only one way to change a person against their will. You have to break their will.
Now get behind your kid and encourage him, damn it!
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if (real_parent_presence_probability > .09)
{deliver_standard_warning($parent = "Dad Trying", $programmie = "TheWho")};
Makes sense..
It does
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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if (real_parent_presence_probability > .09)
{deliver_standard_warning($parent = "Dad Trying", $programmie = "TheWho")};
Makes sense..
It does
I know; I wasn't being facetious.
Btw, the consensus is that DT is just a troll.
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We are a fucking MINISCULE minority of people here. This is mainstream shit. We are like the conspiraacy theorists on their website who think the revolution is about to happen at any time.
and
How many people actually understand the extent of what's happening to today's teenagers, how their freedoms are being stripped from all directions? How the pressures are increasing to inhumane levels? How they hypocrisy that surrounds them just screams to their soul - cry out for freedom and justice... do what your heart desires!! Not many.. not many at all. Most are saying send em to wilderness or an RTC or scare them by calling the cops. What's the next new age light option? We should start a pool bet on it.
Well, I think most program vets have some sensitivity to it. We were the unfortunate ones who's parents were the early adopters of this particular brand of insanity. And, regardless of what some of my fellow alma mater may say in words, even some of the most devout followers and practitioners of Stepcraft won't send their kids off when they find a sack a sticky in the kid's glove box. In fact, I sometimes think them others are sort of whistling past the bone yard by saying what they say. My own brother is a good example. He's a lifelong devotee, been through many flavors of XA and runs an XA outreach and education program. Last I heard he was talking about starting a TC of his very own for wealthy adult practitioners of his XA of choice. When I first asked him to look at my Anonanon site, he just started gushing about good old Art and oh how he loved and missed his dear old mentor. Never stopped to say hi to him, of course, in all the times he blew right past the back door of So. Andrews on the way from the airport, or even when he lived there in town. I can't explain it, weird. But I'm just glad he never shipped my niece off.
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Vexing dad, this is really interesting. It really is hard to tell the difference between satire and spontaneous lunacy sometimes. My opinion? Honestly, I'd have to flip a coin. If this is a troll, 10 stars on a scale of 1-5.
If not, all I can say is that you're being absolutely hysterical about the pot and friends. Now it may be true that I was a 17yo escapee from a drug rehab (well, except the part about it being an entirely bogus rehab), but I'm also a mother of three, the eldest being 22. I don't have to hypothesize or conjecture about what I would do in your shoes. I know. I did some things right and some things way, way wrong. First of all, let's talk about the friends. I hated this one chick! Well, hate is too strong a word. But I thought she was petty and shallow and mean spirited. Boy, was I WRONG! Thank God my daughter passed on my advice in that instance. This kid stuck by my daughter through thick and think up to a point far beyond where the rest of her friends lost patience with her.
She lost that friend due to a boyfriend. One girl's bf jumped the other's, there was a mob and gangs and weapons, cops, agrivated assault charges, permanent injury and PTSD symptoms. And my darlin daughter had to choose. I so wish I could turn back time and delete all of those many, many instances when I tried various kinds of prohibition and coercion to try and get this girl to see the little weezle for what he was. Maybe she wouldn't have dug her heels in so hard, maybe things would have been different. As it was, never saw my daughter and hardly spoke with her, except over the phone while Psycho Boy was in jail, from the time of the trial till a couple of years later when she finally decided to take up that bus ticket I had held out for her to come home (follow the family, actually, to another state) Maybe if I hadn't been trying to force my conclusions on her so hard she wouldn't have been fighting me off and she might have reached her final conclusion a good deal more quickly.
But, it's your life, your kid, what the hell do we know?
Do you really think pot smoking is more dangerous than forced indoctrination? Do you really? Well, if so, you're wrong and that's all there is to it. Roughly half of all Americans have been reliably copping to having smoked pot in high school since we started surveying them on the topic in the very early `70's. The vast majority of those I know personally who have significant mental and emotional issues went through the program.
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I have a 15 year old son, lives with me and his mom. He met bad kid at public school last semester and started with bad crowd. Now he has been suspended four times for smoking, terrible grades last semester, tested positive for THC, bought pot at school, gets cigs at school, took mushrooms and OTC pills to school to sell, physical fights with parents, curses at parents, took parent's car at 2:00 am for joyride, runs away for several hours at a time, pulled knife on parents, doesn't want any rules.
Son has treated with a psychologist and psychiatrist for a year and a half for OCD first and now depression. Is on enough anti-depressant med, but this doesn't stop his actions. I have tried talking to him and have spent time with him. I tried to get him into track and field this semister and even offered to pay him for doing it. He did two days and quit. Also, offered to get him a car if he "would make good grades and quit the cigs and pot. It didn't help. He bought pot at school last week. I threatened to cut off his guitar lessons if he got suspended again for smoking cigs. But, he got suspended again last week for that.
I checked him into a medical treatment facility for emotional and drug problems last week. It's short-term. He gets out in a couple of days. I started researching some TBS's about 3 weeks ago and read the horror stories about some of those on this site and others, so I won't send him to one of those.
Does anyone know of a legit TBS or program that includes school work? If not, any suggestions on what to do for my son? He will be selling pot at school if he stays there and end up in jail. I checked into one private school near our home and it won't take him.
A therapist suggested this program by Eckerd:
http://www.eckerdyouthalternatives.org/ (http://www.eckerdyouthalternatives.org/)
The one he would go to is in Hendersonville, NC. I have seen bad things about some "wilderness schools" on the internet. Any info on this particular program or Eckerd in general? Other suggestions?
Thanks.
I glanced at this thread when it was first posted and detected the malodorous essence of a troll, the kind that hides under bridges and shakes down travellers for change, steals babies, and gives voice to Lonnie the leach's agenda. I ignored it, but it continues on and on. If you're looking for a TBS, Fornits is not the place that pops up first on a search engine, or even the first couple pages. Parents on Fornits have already been burned or discovered through serious research the ugly truth about the shithole their kids are wrongfully imprisoned in. They aren't looking for another facility. Why worry about your son's next stop being jail? He'll have more privileges and rights in County lock-up than he will in a TBS.
Your son "runs away for several hours at a time"? Technically, that's not running away, he's simply AWOL. He's in with a "bad" kid, and indulging in risky behavior and being disrespectful to you and your wife. I find it horrible that he could threaten you and your wife with a knife, but is it only you two? I would expect his violence to be more widespread, not limited to his parents. When I was a kid, that kind of activity (outside of threatening to shiv the folks) was called a "phase", and normally worked itself out through the passage of time, or therapy with a counselor the kid could relate to and confide in. I realize you've sought help from professionals, but a very skilled and successful adolescent psychiatrist told me that unless he can gain the kid's full trust, he can't help. Gaining the kid's trust means not reporting the details of the teen's confessions to the parents unless the child is planning to self-injure. Through this method, the psychiatrist I mentioned has patients who enter his office stand-offish and resentful, and quickly begin to look forward to their sessions with him, often continuing sessions well into early adulthood. No offense, Dad Trying, but the kind of acting-out you describe is often the result of of some conflict in the home. It might be rebellion against authoritarian rule, rejection of the family's religious values, or darker issues that cause him to vent his anger and frustration by engaging in behavior he knows will shock you. Vengeance against a parent is not uncommon, and a kid's means of exacting vengeance are limited. The most obvious and effective way to strike a blow is to renounce the parents' values and indulge in behavior guaranteed to embarrass the family and ruin their "good standing" in the community.
I looked over the Eckerd site, and the bullshit alarm went off after reading this list of "troubled behavior":
* Spiraling out of control
* Having difficulty in school, skipping school or
even failing school
* Causing conflicts at home
* Acting defiant
* Acting angry or having anger management problems
* Experiencing depression, anxiety, ADHD or
oppositional defiant disorder
These issues have been the signposts of teenage angst and hormonal turmoil for ages. None of these "problems" justify removing the child from the home and putting him in a possibly abusive program where the child might pick up some new and even more disturbing behaviors through deviant peer influence. A too-common reaction of teens abused in hellhole programs is a deep-seated resentment against their own parents for placing them there. The resentment doesn't go away quickly, and it can last a lifetime.
"I threatened to cut off his guitar lessons if he got suspended again for smoking cigs," This gave your story a ring of truth. As a teen, I was often banned from guitar lessons until my grades came up. Bet your ass they came up. I was a legendary drinker at 14, and my literary (and musical) heroes instilled a desire in me to indulge in all pleasures and intoxicants, the more exotic the better.
I was a teen monster in thought and deed. but smart enough to not look the part of a deliquent or get caught. My group of friends thought being caught was a sign of failure. We were "Mod" kids, short hair, Oxford button-downs, military surplus gear, jackets, and an insatiable desire for all vices. That's not meant to be boastful: by the time I was thirty I was nearly dead from alcohol, and it was not concealed. I quit drinking and pulled myself together. I miss drinking like I would miss a hellspawned case of treatment resistant crab lice.
The programs you see mentioned on Fornits should not be considered as options. StrugglingTeens will offer you places that sound wonderful, but they make their living off of "kickbacks" from the programs they recommend and get students enrolled. ST's interest in your son's wellbeing is non-existant, their interest ends when they get their check. Look through the StrugglingTeen archives and read the glowing reviews they give programs that were eventually closed for criminal neglect and abuse. Sue Scheff at PURE is the same way, notice on her site that she denies liability for any atrocities or injuries kids suffer at programs she recommends. Sue, if you can't stand behind the programs you endorse, don't send the kids to them and try to hide behind a legally questionable "safety valve". It won't hold up in court, since you tout yourself as an "expert", and yet at the same time deny any liability for harm suffered in a facility you recommend. You're playing both sides against the middle, and you will be called to task for it soon.
To sum this up: Dad Trying, if you aren't a shill for the tortured teen industry, you have some options. Sheppard Pratt in Baltimore MD is a world-class facility, and stays are no more twenty days maximum, and the kids leave with coping skills and references for ongoing out-patient treatment. They stabilize the kids, involve them in group therapy and individual-based treatment. I could call my step daughter any time I wanted and talk at length, or talk to the head psychiatrist and get a full report on progress being made. My stepdaughter prospered and was happy there, the staff told me she was only "being a teenager", and she was a "joy to work with in the milieu with a refreshing sense of humor" and offered emotional support and friendship to peers who were suffering. This wasn't good enough for the biological father, since Sheppard Pratt revealed him to be an alcoholic and drug addict during his clinical interview, and a source of abject terror to his daughter. Since Sheppard Pratt could find no problem to keep my girl there, they were faced with a dilemma: They said under no circumstances was my step daughter to be allowed to live with her bio-dad, due to the strained relationship and safety issues. Since he had custody, they had to go with the father's plan B: Peninsula Village. Sheppard Pratt seemed to hope custody would revert within a week of her release, and considered the placement at PV uneccesary, but it did offer a better choice than being remanded to her vindictive father. The Sheppard Pratt clinicians called my wife and I often after our girl left, wanting to know how she was and if she had been returned home. They were horrified to find out custody had not reverted, and it could be a long time. Not only did Sheppard Pratt help our girl while she was in their care, they went beyond the call of duty to check on our daughter and offer us emotional support. I have nothing but warm feelings for the caring and dedicated staff at Sheppard Pratt.
During my step daughter's stay at PV, I never saw or talked to her once in six months, and her mother was banned for photographing a brutal and improper physical restraint. Since the bio-father was having rich family members sport the bill, he had weekly face-to-face sessions with our patient. The last session father and daughter had ended with my step daughter confronting her father and overriding the staff therapist's control by throwing her father out of the session and refusing to meet with him again. PV practices parental alienation, isolation, false imprisonment, physical abuse and mind-fucking. The bio-dad loved it for a while, until a team of lawyers told him the "treatment" at PV was at best ineffective, at worst harmful. She's home, and surprise! she's happy, doing well at school and looking forward to College in the Fall. Just don't talk to her about Peninsula Village, what happened there left wounds that only time, love and the best therapy can hope to heal.
And Dad Trying? My step daughter's relationship with her bio-father is non-existant, she will probably never forgive him or be in his presence. To further complicate any reconciliation, her father stated (drunkenly) "I don't care what happens to S------, as long as she never tries to contact me again," He DID send her a Christmas present, along with a poison card telling her she was surrounded by lies and alternative realities, and would be lost until she came to terms with HIS reality. Dad Trying, do you want to risk alienating your son for a long time, or possibly forever? Try looking into community based treatment - your son would stay at home, receive counseling on a frequent basis, and the entire family would be involved in treatment. Parents involved in community based learn better parenting skills, and how to LISTEN. Community based is also a fraction of the price of a TBS. Peninsula Village is $9,000-$12,000 a month, community based averages $1200 to $3000. Whatever you do, make sure you do your research. Go to ISAC and read the warning signs of abusive programs. Read Maia Szalavitz's "Help At Any Cost", and check out the questions to ask programs you're considering. If they can't give you reassuring answers, look elsewhere. Unfortunately, I doubt you'll find any program that can give you answers that will put your mind at ease.
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Vexing dad, this is really interesting. It really is hard to tell the difference between satire and spontaneous lunacy sometimes. My opinion? Honestly, I'd have to flip a coin. If this is a troll, 10 stars on a scale of 1-5.
If not, all I can say is that you're being absolutely hysterical about the pot and friends. Now it may be true that I was a 17yo escapee from a drug rehab (well, except the part about it being an entirely bogus rehab), but I'm also a mother of three, the eldest being 22. I don't have to hypothesize or conjecture about what I would do in your shoes. I know. I did some things right and some things way, way wrong. First of all, let's talk about the friends. I hated this one chick! Well, hate is too strong a word. But I thought she was petty and shallow and mean spirited. Boy, was I WRONG! Thank God my daughter passed on my advice in that instance. This kid stuck by my daughter through thick and think up to a point far beyond where the rest of her friends lost patience with her.
She lost that friend due to a boyfriend. One girl's bf jumped the other's, there was a mob and gangs and weapons, cops, agrivated assault charges, permanent injury and PTSD symptoms. And my darlin daughter had to choose. I so wish I could turn back time and delete all of those many, many instances when I tried various kinds of prohibition and coercion to try and get this girl to see the little weezle for what he was. Maybe she wouldn't have dug her heels in so hard, maybe things would have been different. As it was, never saw my daughter and hardly spoke with her, except over the phone while Psycho Boy was in jail, from the time of the trial till a couple of years later when she finally decided to take up that bus ticket I had held out for her to come home (follow the family, actually, to another state) Maybe if I hadn't been trying to force my conclusions on her so hard she wouldn't have been fighting me off and she might have reached her final conclusion a good deal more quickly.
But, it's your life, your kid, what the hell do we know?
Do you really think pot smoking is more dangerous than forced indoctrination? Do you really? Well, if so, you're wrong and that's all there is to it. Roughly half of all Americans have been reliably copping to having smoked pot in high school since we started surveying them on the topic in the very early `70's. The vast majority of those I know personally who have significant mental and emotional issues went through the program.
I'm not a fundamentalist prude. When my son's therapist mentioned that most kids experiment with alcohol and/or pot I told her that I wouldn't be that concerned if all he did was smoke a joint on the weekends at a friend's house, but kept up his grades and otherwise held it together. That's not the situation here. Look back at my original post. His first "bad" friend was the one who got him into smoking pot and he got into it heavily. At the time we put him into a short-term inpatient program, his next step would have been dealing pot. We decided to get more concentrated help for him mainly for his underlying emotional problems rather than the drug abuse.
I understand what you're saying about kids wanting to do the opposite of what their parents tell them. I can see his 'contra' attitude even with little things. I even had started using a little reverse psychology on him. However, I can't say, "smoke all the pot you want," or "hang out with drug dealers." In our family group session I noticed the therapist using the Socratic method with him rather than giving him advice or rules to follow. Giving him information and then asking him questions and letting him figure out the answers for himself seems to be the best method to use to teach him.
My wife is determined to use the 'grab the bull by the horns' method. She is adament that he won't return to public school this year. This has been very hard on her because she has a brother who started using pot at an early age and went on to other drugs. He is currently a divorced 35 year old father of 3 and a meth addict. My wife paid his child support payments for two months while he went to a men's Christian Rehab Center. He gave a good speech the day he got out of that rehab saying he was free from drugs. He was using again within a week. My wife has been on our son like white on rice because of her brother's history with drugs. At our family therapy session my son said his mom disgusts him and he kept his hand up to the side of his face so he wouldn't have to look at her. But, she was right about his drug use. She knew the signs.
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Well, I guess Ombudsman school is out of the running. He would be around a lot of (maybe all) bad kids there:
http://www.statesboroherald.com/news/article/2191/ (http://www.statesboroherald.com/news/article/2191/)
The choices are now home school or let him return to public school. He is adamant about going back to public school, but his mom is just as adamant that he not return.
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Well, I guess Ombudsman school is out of the running. He would be around a lot of (maybe all) bad kids there
That's called "his peer group".
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Well, I guess Ombudsman school is out of the running. He would be around a lot of (maybe all) bad kids there
That's called "his peer group".
That's what I'm trying to change.
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Well, I guess Ombudsman school is out of the running. He would be around a lot of (maybe all) bad kids there:
http://www.statesboroherald.com/news/article/2191/ (http://www.statesboroherald.com/news/article/2191/)
The choices are now home school or let him return to public school. He is adamant about going back to public school, but his mom is just as adamant that he not return.
If you can swing the home schooling I would try that before sending him back to public school. We have a friend of the family who attempted this and it started out really bad because nobody got a break from each other and the situation got worse, very quickly. But eventually with the outside influences severely reduced their son began to respond and got back on track, its not easy and it doesn?t work for everyone, but based on what I have read in your posts it would be better first step than initially sending him back to Public ed.
Another thought, you could try broadening your scope and looking for help outside your immediate area, don?t limit yourself geographically if you don?t have to. There may be other schools/programs out there which could help with your situation.
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Well, I guess Ombudsman school is out of the running. He would be around a lot of (maybe all) bad kids there:
http://www.statesboroherald.com/news/article/2191/ (http://www.statesboroherald.com/news/article/2191/)
The choices are now home school or let him return to public school. He is adamant about going back to public school, but his mom is just as adamant that he not return.
Home schooling worked fine for me... Though admittedly, It all depends on how open your son is to it. You can't keep him locked up forever. At some point he is going to have free access to the outside world, and the question is: what will he do then?
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My wife is determined to use the 'grab the bull by the horns' method. She is adament that he won't return to public school this year. This has been very hard on her because she has a brother who started using pot at an early age and went on to other drugs. He is currently a divorced 35 year old father of 3 and a meth addict. My wife paid his child support payments for two months while he went to a men's Christian Rehab Center. He gave a good speech the day he got out of that rehab saying he was free from drugs. He was using again within a week. My wife has been on our son like white on rice because of her brother's history with drugs. At our family therapy session my son said his mom disgusts him and he kept his hand up to the side of his face so he wouldn't have to look at her. But, she was right about his drug use. She knew the signs. [emphasis added]
Ok, now this explains a lot!. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that the men's Christian Rehab Center was along the lines of David Wilkerson's http://daregeneration.blogspot.com/ (http://daregeneration.blogspot.com/)
I've met some of these kids, btw, at a very well organized protest outside the DATIA awards ceremony in DC in 2002 or so. I couldn't really tell wich, if any of them, continue to partake of the forbidden flowers. They were the kind of kids that any parent would be proud of; articulate, poised, self assured and way better at street theater than any of the opposition. Plus they were all either attending or had already graduated college.
Here are some pics of that event: http://www.fornits.com/anonanon/DatiaProtest/ (http://www.fornits.com/anonanon/DatiaProtest/)
Invite him to go to an event, why don't you? It may tweak his mother nearly out of her mind. But I can see where that might be sort of satisfying for both of you. ;-)
* Marijuana and Medicine
Assessing the Science Base Janet E. Joy, Stanley J. Watson, Jr., and
John A. Benson, Jr., Editors, Division of Neuroscience and Behavioral Health INSTITUTE OF MEDICINE. You may as well take a few minutes to read this report. You and I paid over a million bucks so that General McCzar (aka Barry McCaffrey) could use it to line the ONDCP office round file.
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On homeschooling:
I just have to throw this in again too. I've run into an awful lot of frightened, controling, reclusive fundie homeschoolers. Generally, they have any state and regional membership organizations locked up. But you only have to deal with them once a year when it's time for the paperwork; usually early to mid June. Aside from that, homeschooling just means that the parent takes responsibility for ensuring that the kid gets an education. Check out those DATIA protest pics. Two of those young kids are mine, several others are my friend's kids. That was quite an educational trip. Not only did the event pique their interest in the issues under protest and the people involved, but they also took somewhat of an interest in the great American tradition of peaceful redress of grievance so that when they later read about Revolution era pamphleteers and Tom the Tinkerer, it was somewhat more real to them than if they had spent their young lives locked up in a drab classroom just reading about this stuff instead of living it.
Again, take John Gatto's philosophy on lifelong learning, not HSLDA's.
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I offered you options for your kid, laboring under the delusion you might not be a douche bag. I was led up the path. You're Massengill, this whole thread reeks of vinegar. Your son is dealing with the normal trials of teenage angst, compounded by the fact his dad is a Summer's Eve. From the exchange you had with TSW, it's obvious you get some kind of sick, trailer-trash thrill out of lobbing punches at the kid. Go find one of the "loser" friends of your son, buy a fat sack of the sticky and smoke up. It would cut through your mongoloid John Wayne boo'shit. You'll always be a douche bag, but smoking with your son might help you bond a little and make you a less violent douche bag. You are the reason the lad needs a chronic moment regularly.
Fuck...go to StrugglingTeens, they could use a douching.
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Excellent advice.
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DARE and the ONDCP will tell you that pot is a gateway to harder drugs. But the Institute of Medicine says that the only way in which pot is a gateway to harder drugs is in the same way that Big Macs are a gateway to french fries; that being the means of distribution. *
True, and I like the analogy and the truth about "the means of distribution" being the common element. Pot itself is not the gateway, but an underlying issue or unmet need that compels a person to want to be high 24/7 is not something to ignore. If the son gets busted, mandatory court-ordered drug testing could be a gateway to other drugs.
So many times my son lamented "why is it that the least harmful drug is the one that stays in your system the longest?" His preference & desire was just to smoke pot, but his fear of violating his probation and having bigger legal consequences encouraged him to try lots of other substances to satisfy whatever it was that shrinks, psychiatric meds and love & support of friends & family was unable to satisfy. Eventually he got wise about detox kits and I bought him some myself. But by then he had already developed serious issues with other substances that even he found alarming.
Similarly, these treatments are just as bogus as the fear mongering about pot. Obviously, the conventional wisdumb on drugs and treatment hasn't done your brother in law a whole lot of good. Aside from a fallacious appeal to belief, what makes you and your wife thing this approach will work any better for your son?
Not only the conventional wisdumb, but pretty much all wisdumb on drugs & treatment have failed most people that have tried. The statistics are pretty dismal, no matter what treatment method is used and no matter how much the person wants to lose the monkey. If there were truly effective treatment programs, then those would be the ones raking in millions instead of the mindfuck 'teen help' programs.
My daughters serious troubles did coincide with a change in friends. But correlation isn't causation, as everybody knows.
Correlation isn't causation, but if his son (or your daughter) reached a point where they said, "I want to get out of this mess," then being surrounded by people who exert strong negative influences or even predatory behaviors toward them is going to make it that much tougher. It's hard enough for some people to try to stay clean -- they certainly don't need the added pressure of their usual dealer(s) saying "c'mon, you know you want it. I'll front it to you and you can pay me later." Of course, until someone really wants to be sober (or let's say 'more sober'), all bets are off. It's a tough thing for parents to realize that they have only so much influence and they really can't 'make' their child do anything he or she doesn't want to do.
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They aren't going away. We are a fucking MINISCULE minority of people here. This is mainstream shit.
Bullshit.
The only reason there's relatively few posters on Fornits is because the subject matter scares the shit out of sane parents.
It's the programmies who are in the fucking minority.
Bullshit, it's because it's become a mess. Everyone slams everyone else and virtually nothing ever gets accomplished. Witness the 125 pages of Robert Bruce and The Who going after each other about virtually the same damn topic. 125 pages??? Just in that thread alone. There's a lot more that have a lot more of the same thing. It's become a win or lose mentality. The guys comparing cock size.
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Give HLA a call and see if we dont accomplish anything.
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So then what exactly are you trying to accomplish with The Who? 125 pages of arguing about the same damn thing.
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If it prevents parents from buying into his nonsense its worth it to me.
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I think they get it after 125 pages. Hell, all they've got to do is pick out any few pages and read. They all say the same damn thing over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.
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In all fairness I was only part of about 75 pages of it.
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Oh!! Well, that makes sense then. They couldn't have picked it up in only 75 pages.
:roll:
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They did, no parent talks to him, he however didnt.
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and he won't. Any other parents that come along can read just a few pages of the thread and will get it. Is there really any reason to carry this on anymore other than to find out whose dick is bigger?
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It depends on him, honestly I think hes done at this point. He just cant possibly retain any sembelance of dignity.
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Congrats, I think you killed him.
Time to move on.
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It depends on him, honestly I think hes done at this point. He just cant possibly retain any sembelance of dignity.
Why would it depend on him? He's not going to suddenly see the light so does that mean you'll just continue this without end? It's gotten pointless and distracting. Ganja's right. You've done your job, time to move on.
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No he wont see the light, but all he cares about is winning, he wont stick around once he realizes hes been beaten. He cant stand the shame.
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We've all declared you the winner Robert. Let it go now.
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I never cared, ill quit when he sees the futility.
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He's not going to quit, so I guess this shit will just go on indefinitely then, huh?
Lovely :roll:
Like I said, parents reading can get all the information they need out of just a few pages of that thread. It's getting distracting.
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No he wont see the light, but all he cares about is winning, he wont stick around once he realizes hes been beaten. He cant stand the shame.
Robert, Who is too ignorant, or too invested, to know when he's been "beaten". He's too ignorant to feel "shame". One first has to recognize fault in order to feel shame. He's not going away. And he's too ignorant to be "afraid" of answering questions. He is programmed through and through.
If you want to continue badgering him, ask him specific questions, and not the same ones repeatedly. His non-response speaks volumes to the discerning parent. They don't need things spelled out repeatedly. They notice his aversion. They will take the initiative to do their own research, which Who is not providing. Those who it doesn't matter to, can't be reached anyway.
If you desire to prove him wrong, then do the research and post the licensing status of the counselors at ASR. Post the requirements in Mass on how many unlicensed therapists a licensed therapist can supervise, and if ASR is within that ratio. I doubt that he's going to be forthcoming with that information. And that's what parents need to know. What are they getting for $6000/ month???? Babysitting and "some" academics? What can you post to support that?
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I wonder if you could move or switch schools? It seems like all these bad influences are at his school; and he could make a new start after coming home from this short-term thing if he weren't immediately exposed to the old temptations. I don't think he'll like it; and it'll cause some trauma--having to make new friends and all that--but it would be much more traumatic to send him away somewhere where he doesn't even have his family.
Kids need their dads... I wouldn't separate a teen from parent unless it were absolutely necessary--and I mean "necessary" on the level of abusive or drug/alcohol-addicted parents.
If you are gonig to send him to a private school, make it a day program--he comes home at night.
Also, the simple suggestions: Spend more time with him, encourage his hobbies, know his friends, show him you love him, don't take teenage sarcasm too seriously. We were all teenagers once, after all; and we all had to find out our own identities and break free from our parents. That's what teenagerhood is about--learning to be independent. He's made a wrong start; but he can still retrace his steps and do it the right way.
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I never cared, ill quit when he sees the futility.
You've proven your point to all reasonable human beings. Why the need to make him see? It cheapens you because it has now just become a battle of wills to see who has the bigger dick. This same shit went on forever with SHH over on the HLA forum. Isn't it about time to move on to something and some people that are a little more important? Anyone reading even a few pages of this will see him for what he is. Why do you have this need to prove to him of all people that you're right? You know it, we know it, most parents reading know it. He's the only one who doesn't and I have a feeling he's getting a kick out of keeping you wrapped up in this. As much as you protest that it doesn't bother you, it obviously does or you wouldn't be so concerned with making him see.
You've done a great job. How bout giving it a rest for a bit, huh? This battle between you two ends up spilling over into multiple threads and jacks them, just like it did with SHH.
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Youre all absolutly right. Ill try and keep it just focused on questions.