Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Hyde Schools => Topic started by: Anonymous on October 15, 2005, 10:51:00 AM

Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2005, 10:51:00 AM
Recently our family decided to leave Hyde.  We have the same concerns as many people who are posting on this website:  We've become very concerned about Hyde's narrow-minded view of adolescent behavior, their unwillingness to pay close attention to our child's mental health issues, the very uneven quality of the teaching and academic program, and the amateur handling of incredibly intimate self-disclosures in seminars.  Our family had no idea that Hyde was such a controversial school and has such significant limitations.  What one of us recently witnessed in our FLC was the straw that broke the camel's back; we couldn't believe how traumatized some FLC participants were and how unskilled the Hyde facilitator was. (The alumni parent in the group was worse: he was emotionally abusive and arrogant -- it's incredible that Hyde allows this sort of behavior.  What poor role modeling for students!).

As part of our process we recently contacted a very well known, skilled educational consultant.  This educational consultant clearly knows a great deal about schools for struggling teens around the U.S.  She is also VERY familiar with Hyde.  This educational consultant told us, emphatically, that she will NEVER refer another family to Hyde.  She told us that she has heard so many reports in recent years about Hyde's shortsighted handling of students' and families' complex issues (mental health, substance abuse, etc.); students who have run away from the school; the arrogant attitudes expressed by some staff; the inferior teaching in some courses; the high number of inexperienced staff who are expected to deal with very challenging behavioral, emotional, and psychiatric issues; the unhappiness among many students; and the destructive experiences many FLC participants have when very personal details of their lives are exposed.  

This educational consultant is adamant that parents of struggling teens should look for schools that are much healthier than Hyde.  Our family is now learning about some very appealing alternatives to Hyde; I wish we had known about them earlier.  We've recently talked, very quietly, with other Hyde families that are leaving, or considering leaving, for similar reasons.  It's so hard at Hyde to be vocal about these concerns.  Few people seem to trust that Hyde staff would handle criticism in a good way.  We suspect that families that are unhappy with Hyde don't know that many others feel the same way (in spite of the enthusiasm in the auditorium when parents gather).

Also, as part of our search for a new school we recently spent a long time talking with another school's headmaster.  She asked us about our child's experience at Hyde.  We summarized the experience as objectively as possible.  The headmaster was very candid: Her school has enrolled a number of former Hyde students whose families pulled them out of Hyde for similar reasons.  She talked about how destructive Hyde seems to be for some students and how she is very, very concerned about what she described as Hyde's "doctrinaire" approach.

Anyway, the educational consultant's views confirm what our family has come to learn: While Hyde may benefit some, the risks associated with the school are simply too great.  If you're searching for a school, find a very knowledgeable educational consultant who is familiar with Hyde's problems, rocky reputation, scandals, and knows about schools with much more solid reputations.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2005, 11:50:00 AM
I think that what's happened at Hyde in the past 10 to 15 years is that one or two "troubled teens" have had some success and the word got out.  And the troubled floodgates opened! In the 70's, when my daughter went to Hyde, the number of troubled teens was definately the minority.  People like Tommy, who posts here so much, were so few in number that their antics had little impact on the program... every once in a while  they succeeded just by hanging around  the majority, who were "under-achievers" like my daughter (Who by-the-way is an incredible person who has succeeded personally and professionally to point of making us as proud as we always hoped we could be). We needed a place to kick our butts and get her to take responsibilty for her life.  And it worked.  But at today's Hyde School,,these "under achievers" are being accepted at schools like Hebron, Kents Hill, Pomfret and other 2nd and 3rd tier boarding schools...leaving those troubled teens who are struggling with mental issues, drug and alcohol addictions, etc...to be the majority at Hyde...bottom line:  Hyde can't work when these are the kids that make up most of the school.  They need places that have medical and psych staff on site and offer the kind of counseling and attention that's needed.  Maybe Hyde needs to combine the two boarding campuses, thus getting rid of the "Troubled Majority" and unloading the deadwood on the staff...then I think Hyde can rise to the glory level of the late 70's and early 80's.  For all of you posting on this site saying Hyde is not a good place for your troubled teen and troubled family....you may just be right.
So move on and pay the $60K-$80K a year at a therapy school.  Done.  Buh-Bye!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2005, 12:48:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-15 08:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I think that what's happened at Hyde in the past 10 to 15 years is that one or two "troubled teens" have had some success and the word got out.  And the troubled floodgates opened! In the 70's, when my daughter went to Hyde, the number of troubled teens was definately the minority.  People like Tommy, who posts here so much, were so few in number that their antics had little impact on the program... every once in a while  they succeeded just by hanging around  the majority, who were "under-achievers" like my daughter (Who by-the-way is an incredible person who has succeeded personally and professionally to point of making us as proud as we always hoped we could be). We needed a place to kick our butts and get her to take responsibilty for her life.  And it worked.  But at today's Hyde School,,these "under achievers" are being accepted at schools like Hebron, Kents Hill, Pomfret and other 2nd and 3rd tier boarding schools...leaving those troubled teens who are struggling with mental issues, drug and alcohol addictions, etc...to be the majority at Hyde...bottom line:  Hyde can't work when these are the kids that make up most of the school.  They need places that have medical and psych staff on site and offer the kind of counseling and attention that's needed.  Maybe Hyde needs to combine the two boarding campuses, thus getting rid of the "Troubled Majority" and unloading the deadwood on the staff...then I think Hyde can rise to the glory level of the late 70's and early 80's.  For all of you posting on this site saying Hyde is not a good place for your troubled teen and troubled family....you may just be right.

So move on and pay the $60K-$80K a year at a therapy school.  Done.  Buh-Bye!"


I think you've hit the nail on the head.  I too agree that the Hyde population has changed over the years.  Earlier in its history the school enrolled a large number of kids who were somewhat defiant and underachievers.  Now many of those kids go to other boarding schools that have programs designed for them.  As a result, a HUGE percentage of Hyde's current students struggle with significant mental health, substance abuse, an other such issues.  But, the Hyde model hasn't changed significantly; as far as I know, the school still doesn't have any mental health department or staff to help kids deal with these issues.  Hyde still tries to sell itself as a school where "character education" will cure all ills.  The problem is that this model, which may have worked for the types of kids who enrolled at Hyde years ago, is a very poor fit for many of Hyde's current kids.  This is exactly what educational consultants and parents need to understand -- my impression is that the word is spreading.  Today's Hyde imposes a square peg on a round hole, and for many it doesn't work.  

I have heard rumors that Hyde administrators are very concerned about enrollment trends and growing competition from other schools that serve similar students.  You'll notice that Hyde is coming up with new PR materials in an effort to deal with this problem.  Sadly, the superficial and slick PR materials mislead many parents who don't seem to realize that the school is not a good place for many struggling teens.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2005, 12:57:00 PM
My Educational Consultant also has said she no longer places her kids at Hyde.  In her case I believe it was because of the handling of some controversial situations going on at the school between a male staff member and female students.

Hyde teaches the students to "confront" no matter what the problem is.  It could be a teacher, another student, a boss, or even a perpetrator of some sort.  This certainly cannot work in the real world yet Hyde would like to see everyone adhere to their ways. Can you imagine going into Bill Gates office and saying, "Mr Gates, I need to confront you about your attitude towards the other employees."  As crazy as this sounds, this is EXACTLY what you would find at Hyde if you sat in on a seminar!

In regard to observations during Family Weekends and seminars, I think we all saw some pretty crazy stuff that was especially inappropriate for young siblings to hear.  Hyde encourages ALL of the family to be involved.  I remember one father admitting he had a gay lover, another Mother telling her son in front of the rest of the family that she had been having affairs for years and wasn't happy with the Dad.  This was ALL IN FRONT OF STRANGERS!!!  Sorry, but this place is too bizarre and certainly should not be considered a boarding school for character education.  This is a Troubled Teen Program guys!!  Don't let them fool you!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 18, 2005, 08:59:00 PM
Several people posting on this site have made reference to other schools that offer what Hyde claims (mainly, providing structure to underachieveing teens) but have not identified those schools.

I'd love to hear positive recommendations for other schools to consider.  We have a 16-year-old son who is failing in school, hanging around with a "stoner" crowd and using drugs, but who is fairly bright, generally interested in learning and who has so far avoided any serious legal or other problems.  He has gotten thrown out of Catholic school and is just getting by in a public school he hates.  We don't think he has either the social or academic skills to do well in a traditional prep school and were looking seriously at Hyde until we came across this site and other negative reviews of Hyde.  (Even before that, some of the Hyde materials looked suspiciously "cult-like" to us.)

Any suggestions?
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 18, 2005, 09:34:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-18 17:59:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Several people posting on this site have made reference to other schools that offer what Hyde claims (mainly, providing structure to underachieveing teens) but have not identified those schools.



I'd love to hear positive recommendations for other schools to consider.  We have a 16-year-old son who is failing in school, hanging around with a "stoner" crowd and using drugs, but who is fairly bright, generally interested in learning and who has so far avoided any serious legal or other problems.  He has gotten thrown out of Catholic school and is just getting by in a public school he hates.  We don't think he has either the social or academic skills to do well in a traditional prep school and were looking seriously at Hyde until we came across this site and other negative reviews of Hyde.  (Even before that, some of the Hyde materials looked suspiciously "cult-like" to us.)



Any suggestions?"


A couple of different educational consultants have encouraged us to look at three schools that seem to have very good reputations (these educational consultants warned us to avoid Hyde completely because of the kinds of concerns expressed by various people on this website -- they are VERY critical of Hyde and its cult-like quality).  Our understanding is that these 3 schools are for kids who have struggled, have done some hard work, and are progressing in the right direction (with some bumps in the road) -- we've heard that a couple of these schools enroll students whose parents couldn't wait to get them out of Hyde:  

White Mountain School (New Hampshire): http://www.whitemountain.org/ (http://www.whitemountain.org/) (major emphasis on using the environment and ecology to work with students)

Carlbrook School (Virginia): http://www.carlbrook.org/ (http://www.carlbrook.org/) (a fairly large school with lots of professional staff)

Rock Point School (Vermont): http://www.rockpoint.org/ (http://www.rockpoint.org/) (very small and intimate -- major emphasis on nurturing relationships between staff and students accompanied by high standards)

Good luck with your search.  There ARE some very good schools out there, especially compared to Hyde.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Troll Control on October 19, 2005, 08:07:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-10-18 18:34:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-18 17:59:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Several people posting on this site have made reference to other schools that offer what Hyde claims (mainly, providing structure to underachieveing teens) but have not identified those schools.





I'd love to hear positive recommendations for other schools to consider.  We have a 16-year-old son who is failing in school, hanging around with a "stoner" crowd and using drugs, but who is fairly bright, generally interested in learning and who has so far avoided any serious legal or other problems.  He has gotten thrown out of Catholic school and is just getting by in a public school he hates.  We don't think he has either the social or academic skills to do well in a traditional prep school and were looking seriously at Hyde until we came across this site and other negative reviews of Hyde.  (Even before that, some of the Hyde materials looked suspiciously "cult-like" to us.)





Any suggestions?"




A couple of different educational consultants have encouraged us to look at three schools that seem to have very good reputations (these educational consultants warned us to avoid Hyde completely because of the kinds of concerns expressed by various people on this website -- they are VERY critical of Hyde and its cult-like quality).  Our understanding is that these 3 schools are for kids who have struggled, have done some hard work, and are progressing in the right direction (with some bumps in the road) -- we've heard that a couple of these schools enroll students whose parents couldn't wait to get them out of Hyde:  



White Mountain School (New Hampshire): http://www.whitemountain.org/ (http://www.whitemountain.org/) (major emphasis on using the environment and ecology to work with students)



Carlbrook School (Virginia): http://www.carlbrook.org/ (http://www.carlbrook.org/) (a fairly large school with lots of professional staff)



Rock Point School (Vermont): http://www.rockpoint.org/ (http://www.rockpoint.org/) (very small and intimate -- major emphasis on nurturing relationships between staff and students accompanied by high standards)



Good luck with your search.  There ARE some very good schools out there, especially compared to Hyde."
I would be extremely cautious of Carlbrook.  It is run by Tim Brace, a former director at CEDU, a confirmedly abusive program that was literally sued and prosecuted out of existence.

Any institution run by folks indoctrinated into the CEDU philosophy should be carefully avoided.

Good luck with your son.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 19, 2005, 03:02:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-19 05:07:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-18 18:34:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote


On 2005-10-18 17:59:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Several people posting on this site have made reference to other schools that offer what Hyde claims (mainly, providing structure to underachieveing teens) but have not identified those schools.







I'd love to hear positive recommendations for other schools to consider.  We have a 16-year-old son who is failing in school, hanging around with a "stoner" crowd and using drugs, but who is fairly bright, generally interested in learning and who has so far avoided any serious legal or other problems.  He has gotten thrown out of Catholic school and is just getting by in a public school he hates.  We don't think he has either the social or academic skills to do well in a traditional prep school and were looking seriously at Hyde until we came across this site and other negative reviews of Hyde.  (Even before that, some of the Hyde materials looked suspiciously "cult-like" to us.)







Any suggestions?"







A couple of different educational consultants have encouraged us to look at three schools that seem to have very good reputations (these educational consultants warned us to avoid Hyde completely because of the kinds of concerns expressed by various people on this website -- they are VERY critical of Hyde and its cult-like quality).  Our understanding is that these 3 schools are for kids who have struggled, have done some hard work, and are progressing in the right direction (with some bumps in the road) -- we've heard that a couple of these schools enroll students whose parents couldn't wait to get them out of Hyde:  





White Mountain School (New Hampshire): http://www.whitemountain.org/ (http://www.whitemountain.org/) (major emphasis on using the environment and ecology to work with students)





Carlbrook School (Virginia): http://www.carlbrook.org/ (http://www.carlbrook.org/) (a fairly large school with lots of professional staff)





Rock Point School (Vermont): http://www.rockpoint.org/ (http://www.rockpoint.org/) (very small and intimate -- major emphasis on nurturing relationships between staff and students accompanied by high standards)





Good luck with your search.  There ARE some very good schools out there, especially compared to Hyde."

I would be extremely cautious of Carlbrook.  It is run by Tim Brace, a former director at CEDU, a confirmedly abusive program that was literally sued and prosecuted out of existence.



Any institution run by folks indoctrinated into the CEDU philosophy should be carefully avoided.



Good luck with your son.
"


I am not very familiar with Carlbrook, although I have heard good things about the other two schools (White Mountain and Rock Point).  An educational consultant I recently spoke with said wonderful things about Rock Point School and said, emphatically, to STAY AWAY from Hyde School.  This consultant also has many of the same complaints about Hyde: too many staff are arrogant and doctrinaire, students' mental health problems aren't addressed or are ignored, many staff don't have enough training or experience to deal skillfully with the kinds of kids Hyde gets (many kids with mental health issues), and parents are required to talk to strangers about their personal problems.

Good luck.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on October 22, 2005, 11:48:00 PM
I graduated from Hyde in 1990 and I still carry an intense anger towards my parents for making me spend three of the most miserable years of my life there.  I'm a successful attorney and it's no thanks to that cult.  Emotionally humiliating, intellectually stifling...I refuse to have anything to do with the place and I routinely tear up any fund raising mailers.

Going to college was like being let out of prison.  I never enjoyed school until I left that hell hole.  The comments on this board regarding the school's treatment of mental health problems as character issues bring back a lot of rancid memories (I suffered from severe depression and they told me I was lazy, the ignorant bastards).

I'm busy getting ready for a major trial, but I'll return to this board later and share some more details. The advice to prospective parents urging caution is well taken.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2005, 12:14:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-10-22 20:48:00, Lars wrote:

"I graduated from Hyde in 1990 and I still carry an intense anger at my parents for making spend three of the most miserable years of my life there.  I'm a successful attorney and it's no thanks to that cult.  Emotionally humiliating, intellectually stifling...I refuse to have anything to do with the place and I routinely tear up any fund raising mailers.



Going to college was like being let out of prison.  I never enjoyed school until I left that hell hole.  The comments on this board regarding the school's treatment of mental health problems as character issues bring back a lot of rancid memories (I suffered from severe depression and they told me I was lazy, the ignorant bastards).



I'm busy getting ready for a major trial, but I'll return to this board later and share some more details. The advice to prospective parents urging caution is well taken. "


Lars,
I am sorry you suffered like you did at Hyde!  Please don't take your anger out on your parents. I am a parent and believe me I was sucked into it by both an ed specialist as well as the lies the school told me!  I feel foolish now to have been so stupid and pray that my son does not hate me for my mistakes!  Sometimes parents do what they THINK is in the best interest of the child and it doesn't turn out as we thought it would!  Hyde's PR literature is very convincing especially when you are desperate to help your child.  Look at how they just fooled the public school system in California and are now working on fooling NY with their "Charter Schools."

I look forward to seeing you back here in the near future to share your stories!  Let's get the word out!!  Most families have been too embarassed to come forward, but I think we have something going here now!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2005, 06:20:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-22 20:48:00, Lars wrote:

"I graduated from Hyde in 1990 and I still carry an intense anger at my parents for making spend three of the most miserable years of my life there.  I'm a successful attorney and it's no thanks to that cult.  Emotionally humiliating, intellectually stifling...I refuse to have anything to do with the place and I routinely tear up any fund raising mailers.



Going to college was like being let out of prison.  I never enjoyed school until I left that hell hole.  The comments on this board regarding the school's treatment of mental health problems as character issues bring back a lot of rancid memories (I suffered from severe depression and they told me I was lazy, the ignorant bastards).



I'm busy getting ready for a major trial, but I'll return to this board later and share some more details. The advice to prospective parents urging caution is well taken. "


I am very sorry to hear about your very unfortunate experience with Hyde.  Your experience parallels my own.  Now that I have some distance from the school, I am astonished that Hyde hasn't been exposed for its remarkably shortsighted, destructive practices, particularly with students who have serious mental health issues.  It's just so sad that Hyde has drawn so many desperate parents into their grip.  While some students manage to leave Hyde without serious scars (and some may even benefit), there are scores of students and parents who now talk retrospectively about how Hyde felt like a cult (Gauld influenced) and brainwashed both parents and students into thinking that everything can be interpreted as a character issue.  People who buy into Hyde talk like they're reading from a script.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2005, 07:39:00 PM
When you say that "some even benefit from Hyde" I think this needs to be clarified.  

Hyde did not come up with some extraordinary method to "turn kids around."  There are many kids who go to Hyde who are out of control and have no discipline in their lives.  Hyde has boundaries and consequences to poor behavior.  This is something the parent obviously has a problem doing.  

You could put this child in ANY program or even juvenile hall for that matter where there are consequences and boundaries and this child will have "some benefit." The parents of these kids who have turned their lives around might praise Hyde, but truly Hyde is more harmful than good!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2005, 08:23:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-23 16:39:00, Anonymous wrote:

"When you say that "some even benefit from Hyde" I think this needs to be clarified.  



Hyde did not come up with some extraordinary method to "turn kids around."  There are many kids who go to Hyde who are out of control and have no discipline in their lives.  Hyde has boundaries and consequences to poor behavior.  This is something the parent obviously has a problem doing.  



You could put this child in ANY program or even juvenile hall for that matter where there are consequences and boundaries and this child will have "some benefit." The parents of these kids who have turned their lives around might praise Hyde, but truly Hyde is more harmful than good!"


I think you're right about what I said concerning some kids benefit from Hyde.  Yes, some kids at Hyde need consequences and structure.  I think you're right that lots of programs can provide that.  One doesn't need Hyde for that.  And I fully agree that Hyde's very destructive characteristics outweigh any good that might come from Hyde's terrible environment.  Thanks for clarifying this point.  As you say, parents simply SHOULD NOT send their kids to Hyde School.  Keep looking for one of the many good alternatives.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on October 25, 2005, 11:20:00 AM
Proper therapy and medication, not their "seminars," turned my life around.  And I came out of my shell in college, where I realized how crappy Hyde's academics were.  Hyde actually ruined my chances to get into some colleges because of their grading system.  You would get two grades, achievement and effort, and the two were averaged together.  I'd get high achievement grades, but low effort grades because they said I wasn't a "leader" in class.  I think they set the system up this way to help some kids who didn't have the intellect, but it really hurt a student like me who didn't fit their mold.  Fortunately, I obtained a very high score on the SAT (and the dumb schmucks on the Hyde faculty couldn't figure out how).  Even so, my high test score combined with my mediocre grades convinced some colleges that I was an underachiever.

In college, I could learn my own way, just sitting back, enjoying the lectures & getting A after A.  Ironically, after a few years I began to participate quite a bit in classroom discussions.

In the real world, colleges, grad schools & employers don't give a f&^% about your effort unless it leads to high achievement.  I wasn't suprised to see that many of my classmates who played the academic game well at Hyde struggled in college and the alumni class notes section of the Hyde newsletter was filled with entries describing how so and so was trying to find him or herself (and glossing over the fact that they had dropped out of college).

I noticed too, that they tried to steer kids to small liberal arts colleges in the northeast.  Screw that, I went west to a big school (Arizona State) and gave them the proverbial middle finger by partying my ass off AND doing well enough to get into law school.

I like this site.  It's cathartic to be able to get some of this of my chest.

 [ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-10-25 08:22 ]
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on October 25, 2005, 02:20:00 PM
If you had any brains you were attacked for it.

Redemption: Deliverance of sinners from the penalty of their sins through the murder of their deity against whom they sinned.
--Ambrose Bierce

Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2005, 05:48:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-25 08:20:00, Lars wrote:

"Proper therapy and medication, not their "seminars," turned my life around.  And I came out of my shell in college, where I realized how crappy Hyde's academics were.  Hyde actually ruined my chances to get into some colleges because of their grading system.  You would get two grades, achievement and effort, and the two were averaged together.  I'd get high achievement grades, but low effort grades because they said I wasn't a "leader" in class.  I think they set the system up this way to help some kids who didn't have the intellect, but it really hurt a student like me who didn't fit their mold.  Fortunately, I obtained a very high score on the SAT (and the dumb schmucks on the Hyde faculty couldn't figure out how).  Even so, my high test score combined with my mediocre grades convinced some colleges that I was an underachiever.



In college, I could learn my own way, just sitting back, enjoying the lectures & getting A after A.  Ironically, after a few years I began to participate quite a bit in classroom discussions.



In the real world, colleges, grad schools & employers don't give a f&^% about your effort unless it leads to high achievement.  I wasn't suprised to see that many of my classmates who played the academic game well at Hyde struggled in college and the alumni class notes section of the Hyde newsletter was filled with entries describing how so and so was trying to find him or herself (and glossing over the fact that they had dropped out of college).



I noticed too, that they tried to steer kids to small liberal arts colleges in the northeast.  Screw that, I went west to a big school (Arizona State) and gave them the proverbial middle finger by partying my ass off AND doing well enough to get into law school.



I like this site.  It's cathartic to be able to get some of this of my chest.



 [ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-10-25 08:22 ]"


Thank you for explaining about the academics.  Your case is not unique. I too ended up ruining my chances to get into a good college thanks to Hyde.  Hydefan will say we each made our own bed, but the truth is as you tell it! Hyde's academics suck and there is little likelihood anyone who graduates Hyde will get into a competitive school.

This is not a matter of acting up in school or not doing your work. This is a matter of Hyde's acadmics and grading scale not being acceptable in the world we live, not the Hyde World.  I don't know who they think they are kidding about their "honors program."  Hyde does NOT know how to operate as a school!  They are a Struggling Teen Program and have no business implying they are a Prep School with Character Education!!  Character, my a-s!!  The people who run the school need psychological care desperately to bring them back to earth and make them realize they are a CULT and are destructive to real kids!!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2005, 07:09:00 PM
I have just joined this board and see that it is mostly former students from Hyde.  I am a former Mother at Hyde and find it quite intriguing that the students who are posting have had the same experiences at Hyde School.

We joined Hyde with the best intentions.  A "character first" school that would help our son have more confidence in himself as well as helping to motivate him. I was impressed when the Admissions Counselor told us how many faculty kids went there. In my mind if a faculty member put their child at the school then it must be a very good school!  WRONG!!

I cannot begin to tell you how horrified I was after going to my first family weekend.  The "seminars" were incredibly intrusive and more than that they seemed totally inappropriate for young siblings to attend.  

I could not believe my ears when I heard some of the almost pornographic stories coming out of people's mouths.  I would look around the room at some of these younger kids and cringe that they were exposed to this.  You could see how uncomfortable so many parents and students were and yet people seemed too intimidated to speak out!  I found it strange that Hyde was all about speaking your mind yet no one spoke their mind about what they saw as being wrong at the school.  

This to me seemed very much like a Cult!  There was the "leader", Joe Gauld, the disciples who were the faculty, and then there were the Cultists, (parents and students) who followed the lead.

We did not get out as fast as we should have.  Our son stuck it out for a year and to say it was difficult to get him into another private school is putting it mildly.  The scoring system at Hyde made it very difficult to place him elsewhere.  I got the feeling this is what Hyde wanted.  

I saw many kids held back for one year at Hyde simply because someone (usually a young inexperienced faculty member)did not feel the students effort was up to par.  I felt like this was part of the ploy!

I wish all of you good luck on this board and hope that your lives were not terribly affected by Hyde.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on October 28, 2005, 11:56:00 PM
They made repeat my junior year, not because I had failed academically, but because I wasn't "ready" to be a senior there.  In other words, I got held back because I hadn't bought into the cult.  What a waste.

And when I attended their summer program, I ran away (I literally could not stand it) & hitchhiked back to my parents house.  The school told my parents not to let me back in the house, and sure enough, they bought that crap.  It was either live on the streets as a 16 year old, or go back to Hyde.  I went back.  My parents promised me during my second junior year that if I did better I could return to my old public high school.  On the "advice" of the Hyde administration, they reneged on their promise.  To this day I occasionally have nightmares about being told that I have to spend yet another year at Hyde.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2005, 05:00:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-28 16:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I have just joined this board and see that it is mostly former students from Hyde.  I am a former Mother at Hyde and find it quite intriguing that the students who are posting have had the same experiences at Hyde School.



We joined Hyde with the best intentions.  A "character first" school that would help our son have more confidence in himself as well as helping to motivate him. I was impressed when the Admissions Counselor told us how many faculty kids went there. In my mind if a faculty member put their child at the school then it must be a very good school!  WRONG!!



I cannot begin to tell you how horrified I was after going to my first family weekend.  The "seminars" were incredibly intrusive and more than that they seemed totally inappropriate for young siblings to attend.  



I could not believe my ears when I heard some of the almost pornographic stories coming out of people's mouths.  I would look around the room at some of these younger kids and cringe that they were exposed to this.  You could see how uncomfortable so many parents and students were and yet people seemed too intimidated to speak out!  I found it strange that Hyde was all about speaking your mind yet no one spoke their mind about what they saw as being wrong at the school.  



This to me seemed very much like a Cult!  There was the "leader", Joe Gauld, the disciples who were the faculty, and then there were the Cultists, (parents and students) who followed the lead.



We did not get out as fast as we should have.  Our son stuck it out for a year and to say it was difficult to get him into another private school is putting it mildly.  The scoring system at Hyde made it very difficult to place him elsewhere.  I got the feeling this is what Hyde wanted.  



I saw many kids held back for one year at Hyde simply because someone (usually a young inexperienced faculty member)did not feel the students effort was up to par.  I felt like this was part of the ploy!



I wish all of you good luck on this board and hope that your lives were not terribly affected by Hyde."


I too am relatively new to this website.  Like you, I am amazed at the consistency of so many people's Hyde experiences.  It's obvious to me that there is a very "dark" side to Hyde that needs to be exposed.  Fortunately, this website is informing lots of people about Hyde's very serious shortcomings. I have heard so many disturbing Hyde stories, generally along the same lines as those reported here: incredibly unskilled seminar leaders who expect everyone to disclose intimate details; emotionally abusive intrusions into people's lives; very uneven teaching ability; and the Gauld influence that has created this cultish environment.  I'm very relieved to know that people are finally speaking out about Hyde.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Antigen on October 30, 2005, 12:46:00 PM
I want to thank all of you folks for providing your perspectives on this in such reasonable, calm and mature tones. This is what it's all about, in my opinion.

And here's a frequently asked question that maybe you'd like to take a swing at. This is purely subjective and you'll have to guess, obviously. But I'd love to find out what you think.

You guys (parents) talk about noticing pretty quickly that the people at Hyde are... well, a little nuts. I can tell you that most kids who wind up in similar schools and programs notice it right away. In fact, I think that initial disorientation and fear is an integral part of the initiation. It's an area of special interest to me because it didn't effect me so much at the time and, as a kid, I had no proper apreciation for what it did to most of the other kids around me. I knew the script, I knew the culture and none of it, even the strip search or the threat of being physically tackled for trying to leave (or stand up w/o permission), shocked me at all.

So here's the question. What do you make of the parents who sign their kids up, attend all the parent weekends, seminars and activities and just simply fail to notice that the people around them are bug all nuts? How does that work? What's the difference between you and them going in?

Theology: The effort to explain the unknowable in terms of the not worth knowing.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher

Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 30, 2005, 01:51:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-30 09:46:00, Antigen wrote:

"I want to thank all of you folks for providing your perspectives on this in such reasonable, calm and mature tones. This is what it's all about, in my opinion.



And here's a frequently asked question that maybe you'd like to take a swing at. This is purely subjective and you'll have to guess, obviously. But I'd love to find out what you think.



You guys (parents) talk about noticing pretty quickly that the people at Hyde are... well, a little nuts. I can tell you that most kids who wind up in similar schools and programs notice it right away. In fact, I think that initial disorientation and fear is an integral part of the initiation. It's an area of special interest to me because it didn't effect me so much at the time and, as a kid, I had no proper apreciation for what it did to most of the other kids around me. I knew the script, I knew the culture and none of it, even the strip search or the threat of being physically tackled for trying to leave (or stand up w/o permission), shocked me at all.



So here's the question. What do you make of the parents who sign their kids up, attend all the parent weekends, seminars and activities and just simply fail to notice that the people around them are bug all nuts? How does that work? What's the difference between you and them going in?

Theology: The effort to explain the unknowable in terms of the not worth knowing.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher


"


I think there are several dynamics going on here.  First, many people are attracted to Hyde in the middle of a hot crisis.  They're desperate to find a place for their child and are seduced by Hyde's appealing rhetoric ("We'll help turn your kid -- and your family -- around; we'll hold your kid's fit to the fire; we embrace virtue and values.").  Second, many of Hyde students' parents are struggling with their own major issues (marital infidelity, addiction, mental illness).  They are happy to find a school that has charismatic leadership (Gauld, etc.) much like a cult does, preaches a doctrine (Hyde is full of cliches and evangelical-like scripts that all the "groupies" speak), and offers an environment that seems very much like a recovery or 12-step environment (group support).  For parents in distress this kind of structure is hard to resist.  Third, Hyde provides desperate, struggling parents with a one-stop-shopping approach that is very appealing: sign up here and we'll care for your kid and your family.

Of course, some families are so needy and desperate that they continue to buy this rhetoric and can't see through it.  Others eventually see through it and decide to leave Hyde.  We've now met many unhappy Hyde parents who are looking elsewhere.  Sadly, most are afraid to speak openly about their distress -- they worry that Hyde will give them and their kid a very hard time (like cults handle people who want to leave).  So many parents at Hyde don't know who to trust, so they keep their mouths closed.  Fortunately, websites like this are helping many to know the real Hyde.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 30, 2005, 02:20:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-28 20:56:00, Lars wrote:

"They made repeat my junior year, not because I had failed academically, but because I wasn't "ready" to be a senior there.  In other words, I got held back because I hadn't bought into the cult.  What a waste.



And when I attended their summer program, I ran away (I literally could not stand it) & hitchhiked back to my parents house.  The school told my parents not to let me back in the house, and sure enough, they bought that crap.  It was either live on the streets as a 16 year old, or go back to Hyde.  I went back.  My parents promised me during my second junior year that if I did better I could return to my old public high school.  On the "advice" of the Hyde administration, they reneged on their promise.  To this day I occasionally have nightmares about being told that I have to spend yet another year at Hyde."
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on October 30, 2005, 02:28:00 PM
"
Quote

On 2005-10-28 20:56:00, Lars wrote:


"They made repeat my junior year, not because I had failed academically, but because I wasn't "ready" to be a senior there.  In other words, I got held back because I hadn't bought into the cult.  What a waste.





And when I attended their summer program, I ran away (I literally could not stand it) & hitchhiked back to my parents house.  The school told my parents not to let me back in the house, and sure enough, they bought that crap.  It was either live on the streets as a 16 year old, or go back to Hyde.  I went back.  My parents promised me during my second junior year that if I did better I could return to my old public high school.  On the "advice" of the Hyde administration, they reneged on their promise.  To this day I occasionally have nightmares about being told that I have to spend yet another year at Hyde."

"
Lars, when I was there in '76 Seniors who hadn't drunk the kool-aid were called "senior preps". You couldn't graduate if you didn't gain Senior status. Also, you couldn't graduate if you didn't make Varsity in some sport.
And thanks for verifying that Hyde tells parents to throw their kids out on the street if they run.

The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.  
George Washington

Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on October 30, 2005, 03:04:00 PM
Tommy,

They most certainly did tell my parents to throw me out on the streets.  If I knew then what I know now, I would have reported them (my parents AND the school) to the state department of social services.  I would have wound up in foster care, but I wouldn't have had to go back to Hyde.

At Hyde, they probably consider me to be one of their "success stories," but I think I did well after Hyde in spite of the place.  I did graduate with a "diploma" (only given to about 5 or 6 out of the 35 kids I graduated with, the rest got a "certificate" or a "document" - another screwed-up aspect of the program).  But by the second half of my senior year, I knew how to play their game and did so while trying to be as humane as possible to the underclassmen (I never took pleasure in making them do calisthenics at 5:30 in the morning).
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on October 31, 2005, 11:11:00 AM
Lars,
When were you at Hyde? I ask because Hyde's practices and cult lingo seem to have changed somewhat over the years. Also can you shed some light on what something called "outpost" is all about? They had no such thing in '76.
Thanks,
Tommy

We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

[ This Message was edited by: tommyfromhyde1 on 2005-10-31 08:12 ]
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 31, 2005, 02:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-31 08:11:00, tommyfromhyde1 wrote:

"Lars,

When were you at Hyde? I ask because Hyde's practices and cult lingo seem to have changed somewhat over the years. Also can you shed some light on what something called "outpost" is all about? They had no such thing in '76.

Thanks,

Tommy

We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication.

--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat

[ This Message was edited by: tommyfromhyde1 on 2005-10-31 08:12 ]"


I think outpost is the term Hyde uses when it sends an "off track" (to use Hyde jargon) student to the Hyde wilderness program in Eustis, Maine for a "wake-up call" (e.g., due to ethics problems while attending Bath or Woodstock).  My guess is that some time ago Hyde staff realized there's a market for kids who need or want a wilderness experience.  Many Hyde kids enroll at Hyde after a wilderness program, and some Hyde kids were being sent to wilderness programs if issues emerged during their Hyde experience.  The Hyde wilderness component offers other programs as well.  I guess Hyde decided to develop an in-house program that reflects the Hyde perspective.

I have no problem with the general concept of wilderness programs for struggling teens.  In fact, there's some pretty good research evidence concerning the effectiveness of popular programs such as Redcliff Ascent, Catherine Freer, Aspen, Second Nature, Sage, New Horizons, etc.  My major concern is that, as usual, Hyde puts its unique spin on its own wilderness program.  Given the widespread concern I've been hearing from many people (including educational consultants) about Hyde's model in general (how destructive it can be), I'd be concerned about any program that has Hyde's fingerprints on it.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on November 04, 2005, 09:36:00 PM
Tommy,

     I started at Hyde in the summer of 1987, before the first of my two junior years there.  They didn't call their wilderness trips "outpost," they called them "attitude trips"  On these and on "2/4," their favorite meaningless torture exercise was called the "cheops" pile.  They had a monstrous pile of sticks out in the back field and they'd make us move the pile about a hundred yards down the field stick by stick.  Then, when the whole pile was transferred, they'd have us move it back again, stick by stick.  Just for kicks, if they felt our attitude wasn't good, they'd halt process to have us do some calisthenics.

     Oh yeah, and the sports programs there were BRUTAL.  It was as if they didn't consider being on a sports team to be a character building experience unless they ran you until you were puking.  True, I was in ridiculously good physical shape (I'm talking muscles on top of muscles - no kidding).  But what good is that when you can't even get laid without getting publicly shamed for it when people found out?

I wasn't exaggerating when I said that going to college was like being let out of prison (Why Arizona State?  Check out Playboy's girls of the Pac-10 pictorial and you'll understand why - especially after you've spent a few winters in Maine).
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2005, 09:43:00 PM
Quote
True, I was in ridiculously good physical shape (I'm talking muscles on top of muscles - no kidding).  But what good is that when you can't even get laid without getting publicly shamed for it when people found out?


And this, ladies and gentleman, is a good example as any as to why someone like Lars never "got it" at Hyde.  A high-schooler who thinks he should be allowed to have sex because of his muscles.

Wow.  Muscles on musles.  Someone should just give you a key to the white house right now.  You clearly deserve it.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2005, 10:12:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-04 18:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

True, I was in ridiculously good physical shape (I'm talking muscles on top of muscles - no kidding).  But what good is that when you can't even get laid without getting publicly shamed for it when people found out?




And this, ladies and gentleman, is a good example as any as to why someone like Lars never "got it" at Hyde.  A high-schooler who thinks he should be allowed to have sex because of his muscles.



Wow.  Muscles on musles.  Someone should just give you a key to the white house right now.  You clearly deserve it."


I don't think what Lars had to say is necessarily appropriate, but isn't this like the pot calling the kettle black?  

My feeling is Hyde Fan, you are the most arrogant person I have seen posting on a board.  Maybe this is why Lars comments triggered something in you! Possibly you are very similar! How can you say Lars didn't "get it!"  Who are you to decide what "getting it" means unless you are part of the staff!!

In any case, whatever Lars says or doesn't say, the fact remains he experienced some pretty abusive situations at Hyde.  Whether he had five layers of muscles doesn't matter!  Let's not confuse the issues!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on November 04, 2005, 10:56:00 PM
Pretty funny, I didn't get it because I thought I should be allowed to have sex because of my muscles.  Obviously, Hydefan here has no sense of humor (As I recall, neither did any of the Hyde faculty).  

This dolt has finally shown his true colors.  He's what most message board posters refer to as a troll.  One key to quality discussion on boards like this:  Don't feed the trolls!

Ignore this schmuck, he (or she) just isn't worth responding to anymore.
[ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-11-04 20:00 ]
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on November 04, 2005, 11:08:00 PM
Oh yeah, and I would've happily traded the "Sly Stallone in Rocky IV" build for the "Tim Robbins in Shawshank Redemption" build just to not have to perform in one of their cheesy musical productions.  :lol:
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on November 05, 2005, 09:49:00 AM
Quote

On 2005-11-04 20:08:00, Lars wrote:

"Oh yeah, and I would've happily traded the "Sly Stallone in Rocky IV" build for the "Tim Robbins in Shawshank Redemption" build just to not have to perform in one of their cheesy musical productions.  :grin:

Everything that people say to you is personal. Whether it is constructive criticism or not will determine whether it cam from and asshole or not.

----Bill Warbis

Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on November 05, 2005, 11:38:00 AM
It wasn't called "America's Spirit," but it was the same cheesy Up with People-type garbage.  I hated having to do that crap.  Remember "auditions," where everybody in the school had to get up in front of the entire student body and faculty and sing a song solo no matter how lousy their voice?  Now THAT was downright abusive and cruel.

[ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-11-05 08:42 ]
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on November 05, 2005, 11:56:00 AM
I remember my "audition" well. I sang the most offensive song I could think of! Was it everyone in the school or just the new kids? It was at the beginning of the regular year so I remember it as sort of a hazing type thing. But I could be wrong, it's been a long time.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: tommyfromhyde1 on November 05, 2005, 11:58:00 AM
Oops, that last post was me. Forgot to log in.

I give money for church organs in the hope the organ music will distract the congregation's attention from the rest of the service.
--Andrew Carnegie, Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist

Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on November 05, 2005, 12:39:00 PM
Tommy,

I, too, tried come up with something offensive.  I got a guy to accompany me with his guitar and did a passable Axl Rose imitation, screeching out the "I used to love her, but I had to kill her" song by Guns & Roses.

The faculty went BALLISTIC.  The look on Joe Gauld's face was priceless.

Of course, they made do another "audition" with a less offensive song.

They had absolutely no sense of humor. [ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-11-05 11:23 ]
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Antigen on November 05, 2005, 01:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-11-04 18:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

And this, ladies and gentleman, is a good example as any as to why someone like Lars never "got it" at Hyde. A high-schooler who thinks he should be allowed to have sex because of his muscles.


Sour grapes  :rofl:

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams

Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2005, 04:25:00 PM
I really didn't think that Hyde School was as bad as it seems here.  (The "torture" of an audition-- I mean, come on!)  I went there because I fought with my mom often.  It was nice to be in a place with clear expectations, even if some of those expectations required me to be overly personal-- I'm a writer, so that doesn't bother me.  

I was also exposed to some sports that became passions later.  Not all of the rules were my favorites, but I knew where I stood.  And if I needed to rebel, I simply wore a long jacket to dinner with nothing underneath.  Then, I could smile a little bigger when I got confronted in a long conversation with a Gauld, knowing that I had a little harmless secret.  I didn't need to be malicious or "take down the man."  I just needed to to know that I still thought for myself.

What I did get out of that place was that my father opened up to me and told me he loved me.  I'd never seen him do that before.  Also, I was finally not the only one to see that my mother was completely nuts.  They helped her to stop blaming me for everything, and she got a life.  

Who knows.  Maybe some of that stuff would have happened anyway just with my leaving home.  Either way, that is more of a benefit for my folks than for me.  Hyde is great therapy for parents.  

As for what I got out of it, I learned not to screw around-- I almost never had 2-4 or 5:30 because it was a good enough incentive to not break the rules.  I learned to educate myself, which I did, because I didn't think that the curriculum was rigorous enough for me.  I went to a good school, and I did well in college.  (See!  Even smart kids can get an education there.  Just like they can get one at a library or in a community college.  It just has to be self-motivated.)  

And I did feel that the faculty genuinely cared.  Unlike some of the others, I found it possible to follow the rules without compromising myself.  Although I will say that I "didn't get into it enough with people," because I genuinely didn't care enough about every random student out there to do so.

What was hard was that I was a non-addict and a virgin in a less-than-innocent environment.  It shocked the hell out of me, actually, and made me think that some of that stuff was normal.  I am now much more familiar with addiction than I was before, especially because some of my friends there relapsed and completely fell apart.  I'm not sure I would have been exposed to that kind of stuff in such a glorified light had I not gone to the "bad kid" school.  At the same time, I had a choice.  I chose to avoid drugs because it looked like a bad idea.  So no, it didn't screw me up.

I also know that the transition from Hyde to college is not particularly cushy for anyone.  Either people bust out like Rambo and go completely insane, or they have no idea how to socially adjust to an environment where nothing is personal and no one cares about your emotional problems.  The school can make their students a bit nacissistic because it openly tailors its character curriculum to best manipulate them into growing up.  Many of them come to depend on positive reenforcement, and subsequently remain completely insecure and needy for others' approval.  Maybe it's better to let them suffer in high school for being a show-off instead of delaying the lesson until they flunk out of college.

The graduate thing was mentioned before... since when did it become a good idea to teach kids to focus on mistakes as great "learning experiences?"  They justify poor or selfish behavior with its potential lessons, thus preventing the wake-up call from really sinking in.  (Remember the Action-Reflection cycle?)  

Who knew that there would be a culture out there that made people proud that they'd gone to prison?!  At some point, a kid needs to decide to let go of all the good excuses, self-inflicted or not, and do something about them (whether than means depression meds. or accepting reality for being as twisted as it really is.  Sometimes you get pregnant or someone dies or your husband gets caught by the FEDs for selling kiddie porn.  And then you're poor and have to get a job.  So do the job.  Life isn't fair.  There's the sob-story and then there's the solution.)  

Bottom line: in any environment, a person can either adapt or not adapt.  The problem with Hyde is that it gets a bunch of kids together who refuse to adapt and lets them either fester in their negativity as an underground attitude kid or convinces them that it is enough to acknowledge that they cannot adapt, to name their good excuse, because that is what everybody else is doing.  I find it healthier to be around people who proactively seek opportunities to change what doesn't work for them.  With regards to that, Hyde is the good excuse that keeps many-a-kid very, very stuck (and maybe some of the regular posters on this chat forum also.  So what if some school screwed with your head twenty years ago.  Move on!  This should be an opportunity for people to discuss the merits or down-sides to that kind of education.  If it's a place to vent frustration, then you really need to get a life.)
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2005, 04:59:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-07 13:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I really didn't think that Hyde School was as bad as it seems here.  (The "torture" of an audition-- I mean, come on!)  I went there because I fought with my mom often.  It was nice to be in a place with clear expectations, even if some of those expectations required me to be overly personal-- I'm a writer, so that doesn't bother me.  



I was also exposed to some sports that became passions later.  Not all of the rules were my favorites, but I knew where I stood.  And if I needed to rebel, I simply wore a long jacket to dinner with nothing underneath.  Then, I could smile a little bigger when I got confronted in a long conversation with a Gauld, knowing that I had a little harmless secret.  I didn't need to be malicious or "take down the man."  I just needed to to know that I still thought for myself.



What I did get out of that place was that my father opened up to me and told me he loved me.  I'd never seen him do that before.  Also, I was finally not the only one to see that my mother was completely nuts.  They helped her to stop blaming me for everything, and she got a life.  



Who knows.  Maybe some of that stuff would have happened anyway just with my leaving home.  Either way, that is more of a benefit for my folks than for me.  Hyde is great therapy for parents.  



As for what I got out of it, I learned not to screw around-- I almost never had 2-4 or 5:30 because it was a good enough incentive to not break the rules.  I learned to educate myself, which I did, because I didn't think that the curriculum was rigorous enough for me.  I went to a good school, and I did well in college.  (See!  Even smart kids can get an education there.  Just like they can get one at a library or in a community college.  It just has to be self-motivated.)  



And I did feel that the faculty genuinely cared.  Unlike some of the others, I found it possible to follow the rules without compromising myself.  Although I will say that I "didn't get into it enough with people," because I genuinely didn't care enough about every random student out there to do so.



What was hard was that I was a non-addict and a virgin in a less-than-innocent environment.  It shocked the hell out of me, actually, and made me think that some of that stuff was normal.  I am now much more familiar with addiction than I was before, especially because some of my friends there relapsed and completely fell apart.  I'm not sure I would have been exposed to that kind of stuff in such a glorified light had I not gone to the "bad kid" school.  At the same time, I had a choice.  I chose to avoid drugs because it looked like a bad idea.  So no, it didn't screw me up.



I also know that the transition from Hyde to college is not particularly cushy for anyone.  Either people bust out like Rambo and go completely insane, or they have no idea how to socially adjust to an environment where nothing is personal and no one cares about your emotional problems.  The school can make their students a bit nacissistic because it openly tailors its character curriculum to best manipulate them into growing up.  Many of them come to depend on positive reenforcement, and subsequently remain completely insecure and needy for others' approval.  Maybe it's better to let them suffer in high school for being a show-off instead of delaying the lesson until they flunk out of college.



The graduate thing was mentioned before... since when did it become a good idea to teach kids to focus on mistakes as great "learning experiences?"  They justify poor or selfish behavior with its potential lessons, thus preventing the wake-up call from really sinking in.  (Remember the Action-Reflection cycle?)  



Who knew that there would be a culture out there that made people proud that they'd gone to prison?!  At some point, a kid needs to decide to let go of all the good excuses, self-inflicted or not, and do something about them (whether than means depression meds. or accepting reality for being as twisted as it really is.  Sometimes you get pregnant or someone dies or your husband gets caught by the FEDs for selling kiddie porn.  And then you're poor and have to get a job.  So do the job.  Life isn't fair.  There's the sob-story and then there's the solution.)  



Bottom line: in any environment, a person can either adapt or not adapt.  The problem with Hyde is that it gets a bunch of kids together who refuse to adapt and lets them either fester in their negativity as an underground attitude kid or convinces them that it is enough to acknowledge that they cannot adapt, to name their good excuse, because that is what everybody else is doing.  I find it healthier to be around people who proactively seek opportunities to change what doesn't work for them.  With regards to that, Hyde is the good excuse that keeps many-a-kid very, very stuck (and maybe some of the regular posters on this chat forum also.  So what if some school screwed with your head twenty years ago.  Move on!  This should be an opportunity for people to discuss the merits or down-sides to that kind of education.  If it's a place to vent frustration, then you really need to get a life.) "


I appreciate your thoughtful and detailed comments.  Really.  And, I'm very pleased to know that Hyde "worked" for you.  I do think that's a possibility for some Hyde students.

However, there are many, many Hyde students and families that did not have your positive experience and were, in fact, quite damaged by Hyde's practices.  I'm very willing to believe that some people have good Hyde experiences.  But some have absolutely horrible experiences that are a direct result of Hyde's unprofessional practices.  The average parent, in my opinion, should definitely avoid Hyde; the risk simply is too great, especially considering that there are a number of much more professionally run schools out there.  

As you say, Hyde does have some caring teachers and staff who are helpful.  And . . . Hyde has too many staff who should NEVER be put in a position of authority over a student, much less a student who struggles with major issues.  The hundreds of postings on this board spell out why, with examples.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2005, 05:26:00 PM
Id say the ratio of 5 to 1 that Hyde is NOT a good idea for your son or family for that matter ::read::
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2005, 05:54:00 PM
How fragile do you assume these kids are?  If you have a kid who can be destroyed by feedback in a highly critical environment, then no, Hyde is not Senstitivity-R-Us.  But the average kid would be fine in that environment.  I agree with what another alum said-- get out the crazies who need a bubble-boy environment and Hyde wouldn't be such a bad place.  Currently, it takes too many licenses in the admissions department and may not be a great spot for a sensitive kid.  However, I still think we're being a bit melodramatic here.  "Quite damaging?"  "The risk is simply too great?"  It seems a bit of a stretch if you are talking about the average kid.  
Definitely consider somewhere else if you're looking for a therapy school because there's not enough milk and cookies.  I have vague memories of kids who found it acceptable to suck the pressuring agent out of whipped cream to get high.  (That's a little scary as a spectator kid, and maybe they need real help.)  You should consider somewhere else if looking for a normal school because it is a tabloid-level melodramatic place.  However, I would not consider it harmful, and I've certainly met plenty of people who could testify to a positive experience.  But it is funny-- no one seems to have a neutral reaction.  Not sure what that means.  I do remember Joe Gauld asking the alums for feedback recently.  If anyone needs to get their two cents to the man, that's probably a good idea.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 07, 2005, 06:50:00 PM
Quote
<
Bottom line: in any environment, a person can either adapt or not adapt.  The problem with Hyde is that it gets a bunch of kids together who refuse to adapt and lets them either fester in their negativity as an underground attitude kid or convinces them that it is enough to acknowledge that they cannot adapt, to name their good excuse, because that is what everybody else is doing.  I find it healthier to be around people who proactively seek opportunities to change what doesn't work for them.  With regards to that, Hyde is the good excuse that keeps many-a-kid very, very stuck (and maybe some of the regular posters on this chat forum also.  So what if some school screwed with your head twenty years ago.  Move on!  This should be an opportunity for people to discuss the merits or down-sides to that kind of education.  If it's a place to vent frustration, then you really need to get a life.) "


It's you who needs to get a life.  You're being insulting to those who were genuinely mistreated at Hyde.  Venting is a good and healthy thing.  I moved on a long time ago and I've been very successful in my profession and in life (I have a great family - the most important thing).  I've earned the right to get stuff off my chest.  I don't think it's a healthy place and people should know that.  I'm happy for you if you thought it was a positive experience.  I just know that I wasn't happy and never experienced true success until I got the hell out of there.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2005, 07:27:00 PM
Lars, I couldnt agree more good buddy :tup:
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2005, 07:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-07 14:54:00, Anonymous wrote:

"How fragile do you assume these kids are?  If you have a kid who can be destroyed by feedback in a highly critical environment, then no, Hyde is not Senstitivity-R-Us.  But the average kid would be fine in that environment.  I agree with what another alum said-- get out the crazies who need a bubble-boy environment and Hyde wouldn't be such a bad place.  Currently, it takes too many licenses in the admissions department and may not be a great spot for a sensitive kid.  However, I still think we're being a bit melodramatic here.  "Quite damaging?"  "The risk is simply too great?"  It seems a bit of a stretch if you are talking about the average kid.  

Definitely consider somewhere else if you're looking for a therapy school because there's not enough milk and cookies.  I have vague memories of kids who found it acceptable to suck the pressuring agent out of whipped cream to get high.  (That's a little scary as a spectator kid, and maybe they need real help.)  You should consider somewhere else if looking for a normal school because it is a tabloid-level melodramatic place.  However, I would not consider it harmful, and I've certainly met plenty of people who could testify to a positive experience.  But it is funny-- no one seems to have a neutral reaction.  Not sure what that means.  I do remember Joe Gauld asking the alums for feedback recently.  If anyone needs to get their two cents to the man, that's probably a good idea."


You say the "average" kid would do fine at Hyde.  Perhaps so, depending on what you mean by average.  However, I encourage you to read Hyde's current promotional material, in which it says, explicitly, that about 70 percent of the kids who enroll at Hyde are "turnaround" kids who've had major behavioral and/or academic struggles and many of these have what the Hyde brochure refers to as an "alphabet soup of diagnoses."  That's hardly what I'd call average.  Maybe the other 30 percent fit your characterization.  If that's the case, Hyde should shrink in size dramatically.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2005, 08:03:00 PM
Well, I'm glad your life is good now.  But did you really think that what I wrote was such a rave review?  I didn't think it was that positive.  Just because I wasn't ready to burn the place down...  I guess I just don't give high school that much credit as a make-or-break point in life.  I'm sorry that you were traumatized.  Maybe I don't understand.  What was so bad again?  Really, I see why someone might not want to go there, but how is it so bad that you would recommend cutting off admission?
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 07, 2005, 08:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-07 17:03:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Well, I'm glad your life is good now.  But did you really think that what I wrote was such a rave review?  I didn't think it was that positive.  Just because I wasn't ready to burn the place down...  I guess I just don't give high school that much credit as a make-or-break point in life.  I'm sorry that you were traumatized.  Maybe I don't understand.  What was so bad again?  Really, I see why someone might not want to go there, but how is it so bad that you would recommend cutting off admission?"


Read some of my earlier posts.  [ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-12-07 17:23 ]
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 07, 2005, 09:53:00 PM
Hyde is a cult, plain and simple.  ::nod::
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 11:06:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-07 17:22:00, Lars wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-12-07 17:03:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Well, I'm glad your life is good now.  But did you really think that what I wrote was such a rave review?  I didn't think it was that positive.  Just because I wasn't ready to burn the place down...  I guess I just don't give high school that much credit as a make-or-break point in life.  I'm sorry that you were traumatized.  Maybe I don't understand.  What was so bad again?  Really, I see why someone might not want to go there, but how is it so bad that you would recommend cutting off admission?"




Read some of my earlier posts.  [ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-12-07 17:23 ]"


I did read them, and from what I understand, your biggest resentment is that they didn't understand that your "lack of effort" or "bad attitude" was really just clinical depression.  You said that no one understood that until later, and that in the meantime, Hyde punished you for it.  Does that describe it in a nutshell?  I can understand why that would be a major problem by anyone's standards, but do you feel equally resentful towards the other schools you attended?  What makes Hyde in particular so responsible when other normal schools didn't identify it either?  A friend of mine felt the same way about her addiction, when she was accused of lying about it-- no one understood that she was using because she was completely out of control.  At the time, the school glossed over the chemical nature of what she was going through and continued to try and make it about attitude.  Bad move.  One near-death experience later and she was in rehab where she should have been all along.  So the question is:  What makes Hyde really bad?  Is it because they convince your parents not to listen to you when you say you don't want to be there (when maybe there's a really good reason why you shouldn't be there?)  Is it because they promise to be able to help, and sometimes you have to fake being helped to get out of there without actually solving the problem, because when it comes to you, they don't actually know what they're talking about?  

Part of Hyde's curriculum that makes it successful with some and freaky with others is this need for total commitment.  They claim that parents must be totally committed or their kids won't change.  Then they say that the kid must become totally committed or he won't graduate.  Some of what they require is action, but a large bulk of it is also belief.  That is where it becomes a "cult" at worst, and socially coercive at best.  One of my major criticisms of the program is this aspect.  Maybe at fifteen you don't know your own mind.  Maybe at fifteen it helps to live in a structured example of a moral way to live, where peer pressure positively keeps people in line in the same way that negative peer pressure dictated their behavior before.  But what if the whole program breaks down a student's uniqueness by messing with their faith in their own ability to make good choices?  I hated that when I questioned things, I was patronized for just not "getting it" yet.  I also hated that it was assumed that every kid's best move was to be there, and that leaving there was tacitly accepted as bad parenting.  I appreciate Hyde because I was motivated there in a away that no other place seemed to motivate me.  I also recognise and take seriously the major concerns I listed above.

So what are the options out there for a kid similar to myself who didn't really exist in high school?  There is public school, where no one cares and where the self-motivated, socially gifted or athletically successful students seem to thrive.  There is therapy for students who are rebelling, cutting, doing drugs or are completely out of control.  Hyde prides itself on reaching the kid that no one else can reach, and though I do not think that many of its methods are ideal by any stretch of the means, what school environment does well with the nobodies?  We've had suggestions for therapy schools, and someone vaguely suggested that Hebron, etc. are taking the underachievers.  While Hyde may make all of the boastful claims about "getting your kid," does anyone really help them?  What I did like was that Hyde asked me some major questions about my life, questions that have been provocative as I try to create a meaningful existence.  What I didn't like is that they seemed to have some preformulated expectations of what the answers to those questions should look like.  I am concerned that that much identity hand-holding can be detrimental, and that part I have never taken seriously.  So what would really make a good school?  Just calling Hyde a cult isn't good enough.  I certainly know enough educators who barely have time for themselves, much less the 150 kids a year that they teach.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 08, 2005, 12:40:00 PM
I appreciate your input.  You seem like a thoughtful, reasonable person, and you ask some very good questions.  But saying that misdiagnosis of depression summed up my discontent in a nutshell is not an accurate summary of my posts.  I feel that much of what went on was abusive and cruel.  I do hold Hyde responsible for inflicting unnecessary suffering because their assumption that every problem stemmed from attitude or lack of character demonstrates an astounding degree of arrogance.  Like I said in an earlier post, I don't think it would have mattered to them if they had known.  If you read some of the posts from the really pro-Hyde people, you'll see that they are unshakeable in in their belief that Hyde is just the greatest thing for every kid and really don't want to contemplate the idea that the program may be deeply flawed.  Their response to postings like mine amounts to "sour grapes" or "you don't get it" What they're not seeing, though, is that my feelings (and those of others) are simply a way of getting off our chest anger at being unnecessarily being subjected to a miserable experience.  Too, many of us do feel that prospective parents aren't getting the real story from the propaganda that Hyde puts out.

I don't know if there was any one thing that could sum it all up up.  But if I had to point out one thing?  For years afterward I had a recurring nightmare that I was back at Hyde, getting ready to go off to college and the school and parents would tell me that I "didn't get it" and that I had to spend another year there.

What other options are out there for a kid like you, you ask?  What makes for a good school?  One thing's for sure, one size doesn't fit all.  Frankly, all I can say is that there are a lot of options out there, and I'd encourage any parents have have a "nobody" to really look around. Don't assume that a highly structured environment is the answer, I know that I only began to really succeed when I entered the completely unstructured world of a large university.  People also need to understand that many "nobodies" come out of their shell and into their own AFTER high school.  We all know people who were considered "losers" in high school who are now among the most successful people we know.  And few people I know, even those who were among the most academically, socially or athletically gifted really enjoyed high school.

Does that answer your questions?

 

   [ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-12-08 09:43 ]
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 01:40:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 08:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-12-07 17:22:00, Lars wrote:


"
Quote


On 2005-12-07 17:03:00, Anonymous wrote:





"Well, I'm glad your life is good now.  But did you really think that what I wrote was such a rave review?  I didn't think it was that positive.  Just because I wasn't ready to burn the place down...  I guess I just don't give high school that much credit as a make-or-break point in life.  I'm sorry that you were traumatized.  Maybe I don't understand.  What was so bad again?  Really, I see why someone might not want to go there, but how is it so bad that you would recommend cutting off admission?"







Read some of my earlier posts.  [ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-12-07 17:23 ]"




I did read them, and from what I understand, your biggest resentment is that they didn't understand that your "lack of effort" or "bad attitude" was really just clinical depression.  You said that no one understood that until later, and that in the meantime, Hyde punished you for it.  Does that describe it in a nutshell?  I can understand why that would be a major problem by anyone's standards, but do you feel equally resentful towards the other schools you attended?  What makes Hyde in particular so responsible when other normal schools didn't identify it either?  A friend of mine felt the same way about her addiction, when she was accused of lying about it-- no one understood that she was using because she was completely out of control.  At the time, the school glossed over the chemical nature of what she was going through and continued to try and make it about attitude.  Bad move.  One near-death experience later and she was in rehab where she should have been all along.  So the question is:  What makes Hyde really bad?  Is it because they convince your parents not to listen to you when you say you don't want to be there (when maybe there's a really good reason why you shouldn't be there?)  Is it because they promise to be able to help, and sometimes you have to fake being helped to get out of there without actually solving the problem, because when it comes to you, they don't actually know what they're talking about?  



Part of Hyde's curriculum that makes it successful with some and freaky with others is this need for total commitment.  They claim that parents must be totally committed or their kids won't change.  Then they say that the kid must become totally committed or he won't graduate.  Some of what they require is action, but a large bulk of it is also belief.  That is where it becomes a "cult" at worst, and socially coercive at best.  One of my major criticisms of the program is this aspect.  Maybe at fifteen you don't know your own mind.  Maybe at fifteen it helps to live in a structured example of a moral way to live, where peer pressure positively keeps people in line in the same way that negative peer pressure dictated their behavior before.  But what if the whole program breaks down a student's uniqueness by messing with their faith in their own ability to make good choices?  I hated that when I questioned things, I was patronized for just not "getting it" yet.  I also hated that it was assumed that every kid's best move was to be there, and that leaving there was tacitly accepted as bad parenting.  I appreciate Hyde because I was motivated there in a away that no other place seemed to motivate me.  I also recognise and take seriously the major concerns I listed above.



So what are the options out there for a kid similar to myself who didn't really exist in high school?  There is public school, where no one cares and where the self-motivated, socially gifted or athletically successful students seem to thrive.  There is therapy for students who are rebelling, cutting, doing drugs or are completely out of control.  Hyde prides itself on reaching the kid that no one else can reach, and though I do not think that many of its methods are ideal by any stretch of the means, what school environment does well with the nobodies?  We've had suggestions for therapy schools, and someone vaguely suggested that Hebron, etc. are taking the underachievers.  While Hyde may make all of the boastful claims about "getting your kid," does anyone really help them?  What I did like was that Hyde asked me some major questions about my life, questions that have been provocative as I try to create a meaningful existence.  What I didn't like is that they seemed to have some preformulated expectations of what the answers to those questions should look like.  I am concerned that that much identity hand-holding can be detrimental, and that part I have never taken seriously.  So what would really make a good school?  Just calling Hyde a cult isn't good enough.  I certainly know enough educators who barely have time for themselves, much less the 150 kids a year that they teach."


You seem like a very thoughtful, reasonable person who has taken the time to carefully consider the Hyde critics' points.  You have not done what several pro-Hyde people have done on this website, and that is to launch into the litany of Hyde jargon and accusatory, dismissive, and judgmental assaults.  I really appreciate your mature approach; unfortunately, I haven't encountered that much at Hyde (there are exceptions, but too few).  What I experience at Hyde is usually full of self-righteous, patronizing, judgmental arrogance (especially from Joe Gauld.

I have two comments about your points.  First, you ask Lars whether he resents OTHER schools for not picking up on his depression pre-Hyde.  Is it really fair, you ask, to criticize Hyde for responding to everything as an "attitude" problem without addressing (where it exists) underlying depression (or whatever psychiatric issue is lurking), particularly when the student's other schools didn't do this either?  My answer is, yes, one can absolutely criticize Hyde for this.  Here's the main reason: Public schools have to take everyone who shows up at the door.  Typically with limited resources, they do the best they can and often fail to meet every kid's complex needs.  They may overlook or neglect a kid's mental health issues.  That's unfortunate.

Hyde, on the other hand, knows full well that they admit an incredibly large percentage of kids with serious mental health diagnoses.  They've CHOSEN to do that.  Hyde admits in its own materials that describe the Hyde student body that the school admits lots of kids with a veritable "alphabet soup" of diagnoses.  So, Hyde chooses to admit these kids and then chooses to largely ignore the ways in which the kids' mental health issues influence whatever behavior or "attitude" problems show up at Hyde.  That's a problem, I think, and a serious one.  It's one of the major reasons lots of educational consultants won't refer kids to Hyde and it's a reason why I think parents of kids with major mental health struggles should avoid Hyde completely.  Sending these kids to Hyde is a set-up and a real disservice to them and their families.  It amazes me that Joe Gauld's arrogance  won't let in this fact; but, of course, that's part of the well known problem at Hyde.

Second, you ask about other options for these kids who don't need tremendous structure or residential treatment but require considerably more than the typical public school has to offer (including attention to their attitudes, values, mental health challenges, etc.).  The truth is there ARE a number of "niche" schools out there for exactly this population.  Many of them fall under the heading of "emotional growth" schools and they exist for the very population you describe (kids who need more than the traditional boarding school and less than a therapeutic boarding school).  I've spoken with a number of former Hyde parents who have tremendous things to say about the emotional growth school they found after getting out of Hyde as quickly as they knew how.  Typically they talk about what a remarkable difference the new school made because of its much more enlightened approach, especially compared with Hyde's toxic environment.  Believe me, those schools exist.  A really good educational consultant knows about them.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 02:15:00 PM
How can you hold a grudge, when you cant even hold a job..
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 08, 2005, 02:32:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 11:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"How can you hold a grudge, when you cant even hold a job.."


Just exactly who are you referring to?
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 03:37:00 PM
I would be very curious to know what your childs personal experiences were at Hyde. Was he/she ever treated abusively? my son is there against my wishes and is starting to have problems. I would like him out but am having a problem convincing the father.What other schools have you looked into that you found favorable? Were any of them in the same area of Hyde? Can you tell e the name of the consultant you used? Any info. would be greatly appreciated. :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared:
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 03:42:00 PM
Not you Larry, or am I ??
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 04:01:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 12:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I would be very curious to know what your childs personal experiences were at Hyde. Was he/she ever treated abusively? my son is there against my wishes and is starting to have problems. I would like him out but am having a problem convincing the father.What other schools have you looked into that you found favorable? Were any of them in the same area of Hyde? Can you tell e the name of the consultant you used? Any info. would be greatly appreciated. :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared: "
Get him the hell out of there as SOON as possible..Try the white mountain school....
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 08, 2005, 04:01:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 12:42:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Not you Larry, or am I ??"


Well are you?  If you are, how do you figure I can't hold a job? And since you're not calling me by my screen name, how about telling folks here who you really are?
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 04:03:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 12:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I would be very curious to know what your childs personal experiences were at Hyde. Was he/she ever treated abusively? my son is there against my wishes and is starting to have problems. I would like him out but am having a problem convincing the father.What other schools have you looked into that you found favorable? Were any of them in the same area of Hyde? Can you tell e the name of the consultant you used? Any info. would be greatly appreciated. :scared:  :scared:  :scared:  :scared: "


Other schools that seem to have good reputations and would probably be a major improvement over Hyde (as far as I can tell):

White Mountain School: http://www.whitemountain.org/ (http://www.whitemountain.org/)
Rock Point School: http://www.rockpoint.org/ (http://www.rockpoint.org/)
Carlbrook School (more formal and structured than the other two): http://www.carlbrook.org/home.htm (http://www.carlbrook.org/home.htm)

Good luck.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 04:05:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 13:01:00, Lars wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-12-08 12:42:00, Anonymous wrote:


"Not you Larry, or am I ??"




Well are you?  If you are, how do you figure I can't hold a job? And since you're not calling me by my screen name, how about telling folks here who you really are?  "
I was just kidding around with you lars, I was not at all talking about you, your a good guy..Take it easy, John
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 04:29:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 13:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-12-08 13:01:00, Lars wrote:


"
Quote


On 2005-12-08 12:42:00, Anonymous wrote:



"Not you Larry, or am I ??"







Well are you?  If you are, how do you figure I can't hold a job? And since you're not calling me by my screen name, how about telling folks here who you really are?  "

I was just kidding around with you lars, I was not at all talking about you, your a good guy..Take it easy, John"


So John who are you referring to that can't hold down a job?  What years did you go to Hyde and which campus did you attend?
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 04:34:00 PM
Lars,
i am sory for your experiences at Hyde, but it seems you flourished regardless. My son is there, against my wishes (another story) and I am truly afraid for his emotional well being. Can you share with me what exactly it was about Hyde that has left such a bad taste with you. I need as much info. as possible if i am to have any kind of communication with his father, who is a fan of the school. Thank you in advance.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 04:37:00 PM
So John who are you referring to that can't hold down a job?  What years did you go to Hyde and which campus did you attend?"
[/quote] Bath, Maine...94-96
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 04:52:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 13:37:00, Anonymous wrote:

"


So John who are you referring to that can't hold down a job?  What years did you go to Hyde and which campus did you attend?"

Bath, Maine...94-96"
[/quote]

John, you still didn't answer who you were referring to on this board who can't hold down a job?
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 05:36:00 PM
I was referring to myself.. :wave:
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Hyde's Attorney on December 08, 2005, 05:57:00 PM
Hyde is nothing as you describe it.. It's a great school for kids who are going through some tough times, and need to get on the right track.... "CULT", please spare the dramatics for some place else..
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 06:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 14:57:00, Hyde's Attorney wrote:

"Hyde is nothing as you describe it.. It's a great school for kids who are going through some tough times, and need to get on the right track.... "CULT", please spare the dramatics for some place else.."


Why do you call yourself Hyde's attorney?  

According to Websters, a Cult is "A small group of people who have a great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work"  

This definition is as close as you can get as far as Hyde's followers!  Joe Gauld is the man who likes to be worshiped, the Hyde principles must be adhered to or you are asked to leave, and the members are asked to recruit other families. This "Hyde's Attorney" is what a Cult is all about!  Dispute it all you want, but explain yourself better and more thoroughly in your posts like the others have done, rather than making blanket statements!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Hyde's Attorney on December 08, 2005, 06:27:00 PM
Im a lawyer, naturally I prefer what you call "Blanket Statements"..Cult is such a negative word, don't you agree? The Branch Davidians were a cult, not our beautiful Hyde School!~!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Hyde's Attorney on December 08, 2005, 06:32:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 11:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"How can you hold a grudge, when you cant even hold a job.."
Splendid point my anon friend...Superb..
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Hyde's Attorney on December 08, 2005, 06:47:00 PM
I can assure you that NOBODY at Hyde School is interested in this little fruitless board..Don't flatter yourselves.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 07:06:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 15:47:00, Hyde's Attorney wrote:

"I can assure you that NOBODY at Hyde School is interested in this little fruitless board..Don't flatter yourselves.





"


It is fine for you to be a Hyde Fan, but please have a little respect for those who want to share their experiences. If you have a particular experience you would like to share about Hyde or you have something positive to add about the school, then do so, but please don't cheapen this board by your smart a-- comments and attitude.  It is very easy to see through you!

We welcome constructive comments both positive and negative, and welcome you to this board as long as you try to be respectful.  Something we continually see on the board from the people who defend Hyde is the arrogance and "holier than thou attitude!"  You seem to be exactly like the others!!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Hyde's Attorney on December 08, 2005, 07:14:00 PM
Excuse me? You people can put the school down with no resistance, but the minute I say something, I'm the enemy! Jeez, you people need to relax..I havent attacked a single person, nor will I..Deal with the fact that most people LOVE Hyde School..Get over it..Be fair, stop whining.. ::boohoo::
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 08, 2005, 07:20:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 16:14:00, Hyde's Attorney wrote:

"Excuse me? You people can put the school down with no resistance, but the minute I say something, I'm the enemy! Jeez, you people need to relax..I havent attacked a single person, nor will I..Deal with the fact that most people LOVE Hyde School..Get over it..Be fair, stop whining.. ::boohoo:: "


Nobody attacked you.  You're free to express your opinions (paid or otherwise) all you want here.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 08:41:00 PM
Hyde's Attorney,

I find it difficult to believe you are an attorney based on your verbiage.  If so at least have the courage to state your name and the law firm you belong to otherwise this is another pathetic ploy by those who are a member of a small group who attempt to defend the indefensible.  

Furthermore if this site is so irrelevant as you previously stated, why are you wasting your "valuable" time to participate in it?

Steve Feig
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 08, 2005, 08:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 17:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hyde's Attorney,



I find it difficult to believe you are an attorney based on your verbiage.  If so at least have the courage to state your name and the law firm you belong to otherwise this is another pathetic ploy by those who are a member of a small group who attempt to defend the indefensible.  



Furthermore if this site is so irrelevant as you previously stated, why are you wasting your "valuable" time to participate in it?



Steve Feig"


He (or she) did list a firm name.  I couldn't find it in Martindale-Hubbell, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  Lawyers are always moving around, dissolving & forming new firms.  [ This Message was edited by: Lars on 2005-12-08 17:50 ]
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 09:06:00 PM
3 people you should NEVER trust in life

1. Auto Mechanics
2. Doctors
3. Everyone knows this one-LAWYERS-the most heartless, greedy, assholes of all!!!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 09:10:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 18:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"3 people you should NEVER trust in life



1. Auto Mechanics

2. Doctors

3. Everyone knows this one-LAWYERS-the most heartless, greedy, assholes of all!!!"


I don't know Lars, but I think this is a big insult to someone who has shown maturity and integrity on this board.  He has been nothing but sincere about the pain he went through at Hyde.  

There are good and bad in every profession so please either be respectful or post on another board.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 09:15:00 PM
Come on! Get with it, lawyers are scum bags..There is a reason why they are the butt of all jokes..And I will continue to post here all I want..I went thru Hyde and my opinion is just as valuable as all you other stuck up snobs... :lol:
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 09:19:00 PM
Hey Steve, stop trying so hard to sound intelligent, this is only a little Hyde board..Get real buddy....
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 08, 2005, 09:36:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-08 18:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Come on! Get with it, lawyers are scum bags..There is a reason why they are the butt of all jokes..And I will continue to post here all I want..I went thru Hyde and my opinion is just as valuable as all you other stuck up snobs... :lol: "


Tell all the lawyer jokes you want.  Guess what?  Lawyers don't give a s&^%.  If I told you that before going into private practice I spent five years fighting the government on behalf of poor people who couldn't afford to hire their own attorney, would that make any difference?  Nah, probably not.  Joke away!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 08, 2005, 09:38:00 PM
What do you want, a cookie??
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2005, 11:17:00 AM
The insult war is getting ridiculous and is off topic.  If you have something to say that is relative to the topic of education and what education should look like, then I think that would be much more interesting.  There are plenty of people who love Hyde and had wonderful experiences there.  Those who didn't seem equally passionate in their distaste for the place.  Does anyone want to say why they think it causes such a polar reaction?  Let's try to be respectful of differing view points.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 09, 2005, 11:33:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-09 08:17:00, Anonymous wrote:

"The insult war is getting ridiculous and is off topic.  If you have something to say that is relative to the topic of education and what education should look like, then I think that would be much more interesting.  There are plenty of people who love Hyde and had wonderful experiences there.  Those who didn't seem equally passionate in their distaste for the place.  Does anyone want to say why they think it causes such a polar reaction?  Let's try to be respectful of differing view points."


I have plenty of respect for the people who love Hyde - except when they are condescending and insulting towards those who hold conflicting opinions.  Unfortunately, as folks can see from this board, that is, with few exceptions, how they react to postings like mine.  Check out the alum on the "cowards" thread trying to tell me that I didn't really earn my diploma.  That is exactly the sort of judgmental attitude that conflicts with the very priciples the school seeks to develop in its students.

Understand the reaction that comes from the pro-Hyde people stems from the fact that they were lost and found something special there.  They feel personally attacked when the school gets slammed.  I have no problem with that.  I just wish that they could have the courage not to respond with personal insults.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2005, 11:43:00 AM
I'm not insulting you Larry, I'm simply stating you should not have graduated with a "Hyde Diploma".  And the seniors and faculty are not the ones who should have insisted...it should have been you!  Don't you see that by taking the Hyde Diploma, you were saying that you agreed what was going on there.  And from this website, it's quite obvious that you didn't.  where is the personal insult?!  Please tell me!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2005, 11:47:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-09 08:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I'm not insulting you Larry, I'm simply stating you should not have graduated with a "Hyde Diploma".  And the seniors and faculty are not the ones who should have insisted...it should have been you!  Don't you see that by taking the Hyde Diploma, you were saying that you agreed what was going on there.  And from this website, it's quite obvious that you didn't.  where is the personal insult?!  Please tell me!

"
Wow, Great point!!!!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2005, 11:51:00 AM
are you being sarcastic. or do you really agree?
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 09, 2005, 11:53:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-09 08:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I'm not insulting you Larry, I'm simply stating you should not have graduated with a "Hyde Diploma".  And the seniors and faculty are not the ones who should have insisted...it should have been you!  Don't you see that by taking the Hyde Diploma, you were saying that you agreed what was going on there.  And from this website, it's quite obvious that you didn't.  where is the personal insult?!  Please tell me!

"


No, I don't see that.  The diploma said that I was living my life by standards of excellence, and I was.  It didn't mean that I had to agree with everything that went on there.  Don't YOU see that?
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2005, 12:09:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-09 08:33:00, Lars wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-12-09 08:17:00, Anonymous wrote:


"The insult war is getting ridiculous and is off topic.  If you have something to say that is relative to the topic of education and what education should look like, then I think that would be much more interesting.  There are plenty of people who love Hyde and had wonderful experiences there.  Those who didn't seem equally passionate in their distaste for the place.  Does anyone want to say why they think it causes such a polar reaction?  Let's try to be respectful of differing view points."




I have plenty of respect for the people who love Hyde - except when they are condescending and insulting towards those who hold conflicting opinions.  Unfortunately, as folks can see from this board, that is, with few exceptions, how they react to postings like mine.  Check out the alum on the "cowards" thread trying to tell me that I didn't really earn my diploma.  That is exactly the sort of judgmental attitude that conflicts with the very priciples the school seeks to develop in its students.



Understand the reaction that comes from the pro-Hyde people stems from the fact that they were lost and found something special there.  They feel personally attacked when the school gets slammed.  I have no problem with that.  I just wish that they could have the courage not to respond with personal insults. "


I concur completely, Larry.  For some time now most of the postings here have been reasonable, fair, and thoughtful, with a few exceptions.  Some people have agreed to disagree.  

However, during the past few days one or more people have posted terribly immature, snide, provocative comments that are a disservice to the rest of us who are trying to engage in a civilized dialogue characterized by respect for different opinions.

Sadly, the horribly inappropriate recent comments are similar to comments I have heard at Hyde many times uttered by some people.  If the recent postings are indeed from people affiliated with Hyde (I wonder), it provides even more evidence of the destructive nature of the Hyde environment, and that is important information for parents considering Hyde to know.  

So, those of you who are trying to drag down Hyde's critics and this website with these immature potshots, you're only providing more and more evidence of what is wrong with Hyde.  Your comments clearly demonstrate that you are not a credit to the school, expecially when you communicate this way with people who criticize Hyde.  The grand irony is that you are harming Hyde much more than helping - this is fuel for the fire.  Are these your true Hyde colors?  Is this how you learned to communicate while at Hyde?  

If you keep this up, you will add to the growing, permanent Internet record for everyone to see demonstrating some of the many reasons why parents should not enroll their kids at Hyde.  Hyde's public relations image has suffered in recent months because of this website; a number of people have decided not to explore Hyde for their kid because of this website (I have confirmation of that). These immature postings and potshots make it even worse for Hyde.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2005, 12:15:00 PM
I am an alum who had a very positive experience at Hyde.  I really did not like the school for the first year and a half that I was there.  I was very private about my misery, but I just didn't enjoy it.  The change for me was not a "once was lost but now I'm found" experience.  I was the same person underneath all along.  Instead, I had discussions with people about who I am and what my dreams look like.  People took me seriously and expected much from me.  That validation helped me to develop my strengths.  This change began when I was acknowledged in performing arts, and it permeated into other areas of my life.

I know that Hyde is hard and that not everyone there is or was happy.  I'm not sure that anyone who has gone there assumes that the school is perfect.  But I think that for many people, change starts with a mentor.  Hyde is a place full of people who want to mentor character growth in others.  Not everyone has that experience or wants that experience, but it can be life changing.

Hyde may not be the end-all be-all in education, but I do know that mainstream schools shouldn't be as impersonal as they are now.  (BTW, I think it's unacceptable that public schools are let off the hook for having to educate their population just because they can't filter who they admit.  Everyone in America deserves a good education.)  Hyde tries to make a community environment in which everyone is invested in helping everyone else grow up.  This intention is noble and should not be lost.  It makes me sad that some people who did not have the same experience that I did, and I respect your desire to talk about it now.  It's cathartic.  I'm glad you got inspired somewhere else, but I do think that for many the opportunity is available at Hyde School.  That is why I disagree with what many on this board are saying.  Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2005, 03:36:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-09 09:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I am an alum who had a very positive experience at Hyde.  I really did not like the school for the first year and a half that I was there.  I was very private about my misery, but I just didn't enjoy it.  The change for me was not a "once was lost but now I'm found" experience.  I was the same person underneath all along.  Instead, I had discussions with people about who I am and what my dreams look like.  People took me seriously and expected much from me.  That validation helped me to develop my strengths.  This change began when I was acknowledged in performing arts, and it permeated into other areas of my life.



I know that Hyde is hard and that not everyone there is or was happy.  I'm not sure that anyone who has gone there assumes that the school is perfect.  But I think that for many people, change starts with a mentor.  Hyde is a place full of people who want to mentor character growth in others.  Not everyone has that experience or wants that experience, but it can be life changing.



Hyde may not be the end-all be-all in education, but I do know that mainstream schools shouldn't be as impersonal as they are now.  (BTW, I think it's unacceptable that public schools are let off the hook for having to educate their population just because they can't filter who they admit.  Everyone in America deserves a good education.)  Hyde tries to make a community environment in which everyone is invested in helping everyone else grow up.  This intention is noble and should not be lost.  It makes me sad that some people who did not have the same experience that I did, and I respect your desire to talk about it now.  It's cathartic.  I'm glad you got inspired somewhere else, but I do think that for many the opportunity is available at Hyde School.  That is why I disagree with what many on this board are saying.  Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water."
I agree 100%, Hyde was a wonderful experience, and I thank god for the 2 years I had to discover who I really am...I believe it's the WEAK people who have a problem with Hyde School
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 09, 2005, 04:53:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-09 12:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-12-09 09:15:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I am an alum who had a very positive experience at Hyde.  I really did not like the school for the first year and a half that I was there.  I was very private about my misery, but I just didn't enjoy it.  The change for me was not a "once was lost but now I'm found" experience.  I was the same person underneath all along.  Instead, I had discussions with people about who I am and what my dreams look like.  People took me seriously and expected much from me.  That validation helped me to develop my strengths.  This change began when I was acknowledged in performing arts, and it permeated into other areas of my life.





I know that Hyde is hard and that not everyone there is or was happy.  I'm not sure that anyone who has gone there assumes that the school is perfect.  But I think that for many people, change starts with a mentor.  Hyde is a place full of people who want to mentor character growth in others.  Not everyone has that experience or wants that experience, but it can be life changing.





Hyde may not be the end-all be-all in education, but I do know that mainstream schools shouldn't be as impersonal as they are now.  (BTW, I think it's unacceptable that public schools are let off the hook for having to educate their population just because they can't filter who they admit.  Everyone in America deserves a good education.)  Hyde tries to make a community environment in which everyone is invested in helping everyone else grow up.  This intention is noble and should not be lost.  It makes me sad that some people who did not have the same experience that I did, and I respect your desire to talk about it now.  It's cathartic.  I'm glad you got inspired somewhere else, but I do think that for many the opportunity is available at Hyde School.  That is why I disagree with what many on this board are saying.  Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water."

I agree 100%, Hyde was a wonderful experience, and I thank god for the 2 years I had to discover who I really am...I believe it's the WEAK people who have a problem with Hyde School"


Weak people don't achieve what I have.  I hated the place and I have a great career & family. I don't think my family would agree that I'm weak. Nobody's saying throw the baby out with the bathwater.  People are just expressing how they feel about the place.  Of course you have to be insulting and say that if someone had a problem there they were weak.  Try to show some of that character the Hyde people are always preaching about.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2005, 05:31:00 PM
Nothing is more frustrating than to see all of the name calling in this discussion!  Just because someone likes Hyde does not mean that they have a Kool-Aid drinking problem nor does it mean that they are a faculty member.  Just because someone doesn't like it doesn't make them weak or mean that they are an anonymous off-track student or mean that they don't have a brain.  Hyde is very different from a traditional education.  For me, I loved it.  I went there for a few years.  While a student, I expressed my opinions, took heat for it on occasion, and appreciated that people were willing to passionately and forthrightly disagree with me.  I took heat for it, but I kind of liked that.  It didn't stop me from thinking and may have forced some faculty members to better develop their own arguments.  I chose to be extremely respectful when I disagreed and in turn, felt respected for my differing point of view.  

I have appreciated being able to discuss these things with you, Lars, because you have made valid points that have gone beyond mudslinging.  Whether I agree with you or not, I respect that.  I wish that more people were willing to have calm discussions about education and what is best for kids, even if this discussion is personal and passionate.  Hyde is a unique school that has spent 40 years experimenting with how to raise kids in a boarding school setting.  Maybe a real conversation with fresh ideas on how to improve an educational model that strives to do something different is more productive than simply to argue over whether or not it is currently the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Why not treat this forum as a comment box?  How would you improve what they are trying to do?  What should a really good school that is trying to help raise the next generation of kids look like?  Sometimes dissatisfied customers provide great ideas.  You said yourself that you thought they were reading this...  Just a thought.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2005, 05:55:00 PM
I am happy that you had a positive experienced at Hyde, but I completely disagree with your statement, "I believe it's the WEAK people who have a problem with Hyde School"

I've observed that it is the weak adult staff who stay at Hyde.  Most are either related through blood or marriage, or recovery alcoholics, or parents of kids who have big issues that brought them to Hyde.  My opinion is that these staff that stay on for years stay because they can't make it without the security of Hyde.  This is the same reason people stay in Cults.

Take a look at the staff who have been there for years!  Besides the disfunctional "family", you have mostly overweight, (some obese) unhappy women, some who have never been married, or have not been able to sustain a relationship, gay men who are struggling with living in a world where they might not be accepted, hippies who never were able to leave the 70's behind them, recovering addicts and alcoholics, and the few "functional" staff who only stay for a year or two until they figure out how bizarre this place is!

I admit this is only one persons opinion, mine and many of you might disagree with me, but this is how I feel since I left Hyde 1 1/2 years ago.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 09, 2005, 05:59:00 PM
I very much appreciate your thoughtful comments.
Frankly all this argument and discussion has worn me out a bit.  I don't really know that making suggestions to Hyde is all that great of an idea.  For one thing, I don't think they're really amenable to change.  For another, I may not be the one to make suggestions - I probably needed another type of school altogether at that age.  I think that's what made me, at least in part, so angry about the whole business.  My parents were control freaks and they sent me to a school run by control freaks...and all I wanted was to be left alone.  Maybe that's why going away to college finally helped me get my life together.  But I don't feel so much anger after 100 or so posts on this board and that's a good thing.  Like someone said, it's just high school - get over it.  Hell, I WANT to feel good about the experience.  Me & everyone else that went there went through a lot.  And I do miss some folks.

Anyway, thank you for your kind thoughts.  I do try to see the good in things - you have to in my line of work.  As far as what the Gaulds & the rest of the people at Hyde think, I just hope they listen to what I've said and take it to heart.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2005, 06:01:00 PM
Hyde School in one word- bizzare. I agree my friend
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2005, 06:03:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-09 14:59:00, Lars wrote:

"I very much appreciate your thoughtful comments.

Frankly all this argument and discussion has worn me out a bit.  I don't really know that making suggestions to Hyde is all that great of an idea.  For one thing, I don't think they're really amenable to change.  For another, I may not be the one to make suggestions - I probably needed another type of school altogether at that age.  I think that's what made me, at least in part, so angry about the whole business.  My parents were control freaks and they sent me to a school run by control freaks...and all I wanted was to be left alone.  Maybe that's why going away to college finally helped me get my life together.  But I don't feel so much anger after 100 or so posts on this board and that's a good thing.  Like someone said, it's just high school - get over it.  Hell, I WANT to feel good about the experience.  Me & everyone else that went there went through a lot.  And I do miss some folks.



Anyway, thank you for your kind thoughts.  I do try to see the good in things - you have to in my line of work.  As far as what the Gaulds & the rest of the people at Hyde think, I just hope they listen to what I've said and take it to heart. "
Lars, I hope you continue to post here, It's refreshing to hear what you have to say, in such a civil manner, I love you like a brother my co-Hyde alumni!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 09, 2005, 09:43:00 PM
What's wrong with Hyde School? This is my first time seeing this board. What's the big problem with Hyde??????????????????????????
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2005, 09:11:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-09 18:43:00, Anonymous wrote:

"What's wrong with Hyde School? This is my first time seeing this board. What's the big problem with Hyde?????????????????????????? "


If you are interested, read all the previous posts and you will see both postive and negative comments about Hyde, although you will find there is a high percentage of negative comments on this board.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2005, 09:18:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-12-09 14:55:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I am happy that you had a positive experienced at Hyde, but I completely disagree with your statement, "I believe it's the WEAK people who have a problem with Hyde School"



I've observed that it is the weak adult staff who stay at Hyde.  Most are either related through blood or marriage, or recovery alcoholics, or parents of kids who have big issues that brought them to Hyde.  My opinion is that these staff that stay on for years stay because they can't make it without the security of Hyde.  This is the same reason people stay in Cults.



Take a look at the staff who have been there for years!  Besides the disfunctional "family", you have mostly overweight, (some obese) unhappy women, some who have never been married, or have not been able to sustain a relationship, gay men who are struggling with living in a world where they might not be accepted, hippies who never were able to leave the 70's behind them, recovering addicts and alcoholics, and the few "functional" staff who only stay for a year or two until they figure out how bizarre this place is!



I admit this is only one persons opinion, mine and many of you might disagree with me, but this is how I feel since I left Hyde 1 1/2 years ago."
d

Quite the contrary!  I do agree with you.  My husband once pointed out this very same thing.  He asked the question, "How can disfunctional staff, teachers and administrators try to help kids change their lives when they themselves have not been able to work out their issues after many years?"  Why hasn't the program worked for these "Hyde Lifers" if it is a successful program?I think he has a good point!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2005, 02:15:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-09 09:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I am an alum who had a very positive experience at Hyde.  I really did not like the school for the first year and a half that I was there.  I was very private about my misery, but I just didn't enjoy it.  The change for me was not a "once was lost but now I'm found" experience.  I was the same person underneath all along.  Instead, I had discussions with people about who I am and what my dreams look like.  People took me seriously and expected much from me.  That validation helped me to develop my strengths.  This change began when I was acknowledged in performing arts, and it permeated into other areas of my life.



I know that Hyde is hard and that not everyone there is or was happy.  I'm not sure that anyone who has gone there assumes that the school is perfect.  But I think that for many people, change starts with a mentor.  Hyde is a place full of people who want to mentor character growth in others.  Not everyone has that experience or wants that experience, but it can be life changing.



Hyde may not be the end-all be-all in education, but I do know that mainstream schools shouldn't be as impersonal as they are now.  (BTW, I think it's unacceptable that public schools are let off the hook for having to educate their population just because they can't filter who they admit.  Everyone in America deserves a good education.)  Hyde tries to make a community environment in which everyone is invested in helping everyone else grow up.  This intention is noble and should not be lost.  It makes me sad that some people who did not have the same experience that I did, and I respect your desire to talk about it now.  It's cathartic.  I'm glad you got inspired somewhere else, but I do think that for many the opportunity is available at Hyde School.  That is why I disagree with what many on this board are saying.  Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water."


I appreciate and respect your comments and am glad you had positive experiences at Hyde.  But, my own experience was just the opposite; what I experienced and witnessed at Hyde was full of hypocrisy, pain, and arrogance. I'm still dealing with the ill effects, even years later.  Although I met some wonderful people and staff who tried their best to be helpful, I also met many Hyde staff who were full of themselves, inexperienced, unskilled, cruel, and hurtful.

I have a few questions for you:  How did you find this website?  Did you learn about this from someone at Hyde?  Did someone from the Hyde staff or alumni group ask you to post comments in an effort to show a "positive" side of Hyde, as a way to challenge all of the negative comments here?  I would appreciate an honest answer (remember Hyde's commitment to TRUTH over HARMONY).
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2005, 02:20:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-09 12:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-12-09 09:15:00, Anonymous wrote:


"I am an alum who had a very positive experience at Hyde.  I really did not like the school for the first year and a half that I was there.  I was very private about my misery, but I just didn't enjoy it.  The change for me was not a "once was lost but now I'm found" experience.  I was the same person underneath all along.  Instead, I had discussions with people about who I am and what my dreams look like.  People took me seriously and expected much from me.  That validation helped me to develop my strengths.  This change began when I was acknowledged in performing arts, and it permeated into other areas of my life.





I know that Hyde is hard and that not everyone there is or was happy.  I'm not sure that anyone who has gone there assumes that the school is perfect.  But I think that for many people, change starts with a mentor.  Hyde is a place full of people who want to mentor character growth in others.  Not everyone has that experience or wants that experience, but it can be life changing.





Hyde may not be the end-all be-all in education, but I do know that mainstream schools shouldn't be as impersonal as they are now.  (BTW, I think it's unacceptable that public schools are let off the hook for having to educate their population just because they can't filter who they admit.  Everyone in America deserves a good education.)  Hyde tries to make a community environment in which everyone is invested in helping everyone else grow up.  This intention is noble and should not be lost.  It makes me sad that some people who did not have the same experience that I did, and I respect your desire to talk about it now.  It's cathartic.  I'm glad you got inspired somewhere else, but I do think that for many the opportunity is available at Hyde School.  That is why I disagree with what many on this board are saying.  Let's not throw out the baby with the bath water."

I agree 100%, Hyde was a wonderful experience, and I thank god for the 2 years I had to discover who I really am...I believe it's the WEAK people who have a problem with Hyde School"


I appreciate and respect your comments and am glad you had positive experiences at Hyde.  But, my own experience was just the opposite; what I experienced and witnessed at Hyde was full of hypocrisy, pain, and arrogance. I'm still dealing with the ill effects, even years later.  Although I met some wonderful people and staff who tried their best to be helpful, I also met many Hyde staff who were full of themselves, inexperienced, unskilled, cruel, and hurtful.

I have a few questions for you:  How did you find this website?  Did you learn about this from someone at Hyde?  Did someone from the Hyde staff or alumni group ask you to post comments in an effort to show a "positive" side of Hyde, as a way to challenge all of the negative comments here?  I would appreciate an honest answer (remember Hyde's commitment to TRUTH over HARMONY).
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2005, 05:20:00 PM
No one coerced me into saying those positive things.  I found this website on my own when I was googling things.  I have no affiliation with the school.  It just wasn't that bad for me, and that's truly how I feel.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2005, 05:24:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-10 14:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"No one coerced me into saying those positive things.  I found this website on my own when I was googling things.  I have no affiliation with the school.  It just wasn't that bad for me, and that's truly how I feel."


Thank you.  I appreciate that.  I can't help but wonder whether Hyde staff and HAPA parents are getting nervous about the negative impact this website is clearly having on Hyde and are approaching Hyde "fans" to post positive comments.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2005, 05:28:00 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if that was going on either, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they were just ignoring this site-- the more attention it gets, the easier it is to Google.  Besides, it's pretty much acknowledged that Hyde's biggest problem is that it tacitly writes off any criticism to ignorance of the process.  No wonder it hasn't changed much in 40 years!  I still think that some of the ideas are valuable, even if they've been perverted by Hyde's current structure.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2005, 08:48:00 PM
I just got my daughter out of Hyde this week. Thank Jesus I did!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2005, 10:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-10 17:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

"I just got my daughter out of Hyde this week. Thank Jesus I did! "


Are you able to share the reasons why you pulled your daughter out of Hyde?  I'm interested in knowing more about this school.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 10, 2005, 10:51:00 PM
In a nutshell; It's a brainwashing factory.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2005, 03:39:00 PM
Do you wish to share the name of your educational consutant? privately? I am in a terrible situation with my child there sgainst my wishes. Am looking to gater as much info. as possible. If you can help.....
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2005, 04:06:00 PM
please, why did you feel the need to get your daughter out?? my son is there and I want him out!! PLEASE SHARE ANY INFORMATION YOU CAN!
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2005, 04:09:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-13 13:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

"please, why did you feel the need to get your daughter out?? my son is there and I want him out!! PLEASE SHARE ANY INFORMATION YOU CAN!"


Major reasons: emotionally abusive staff at Hyde; unwillingess to be sensitive to my child's mental health needs and challenges; poorly trained staff; cult atmosphere; bizarre incidents I have observed during seminars that Hyde staff completely mishandled; witnessing Joe Gauld's unbelievable arrogance and hypocrisy.  There's more, but these are the big issues.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2005, 04:20:00 PM
were you on the Bath or Woodstock campus?
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2005, 04:23:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-13 13:09:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-12-13 13:06:00, Anonymous wrote:


"please, why did you feel the need to get your daughter out?? my son is there and I want him out!! PLEASE SHARE ANY INFORMATION YOU CAN!"




Major reasons: emotionally abusive staff at Hyde; unwillingess to be sensitive to my child's mental health needs and challenges; poorly trained staff; cult atmosphere; bizarre incidents I have observed during seminars that Hyde staff completely mishandled; witnessing Joe Gauld's unbelievable arrogance and hypocrisy.  There's more, but these are the big issues."


Unfortunately unless you hire an attorney you are probably out of luck with getting any money back.  Hyde makes a fortune on all the parents who withdraw their kids during the year, which many do after discovering what the school is about.  Possibly many of you can try to get the same attorney in Ct or Bath and make a bigger impact by joining forces.  Do you have any suggestions, Lars?  As you can see there are more and more disgruntled parents joining this board.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2005, 04:41:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-13 13:20:00, Anonymous wrote:

"were you on the Bath or Woodstock campus?"


Woodstock
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2005, 04:45:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-13 13:23:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-12-13 13:09:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote


On 2005-12-13 13:06:00, Anonymous wrote:



"please, why did you feel the need to get your daughter out?? my son is there and I want him out!! PLEASE SHARE ANY INFORMATION YOU CAN!"







Major reasons: emotionally abusive staff at Hyde; unwillingess to be sensitive to my child's mental health needs and challenges; poorly trained staff; cult atmosphere; bizarre incidents I have observed during seminars that Hyde staff completely mishandled; witnessing Joe Gauld's unbelievable arrogance and hypocrisy.  There's more, but these are the big issues."




Unfortunately unless you hire an attorney you are probably out of luck with getting any money back.  Hyde makes a fortune on all the parents who withdraw their kids during the year, which many do after discovering what the school is about.  Possibly many of you can try to get the same attorney in Ct or Bath and make a bigger impact by joining forces.  Do you have any suggestions, Lars?  As you can see there are more and more disgruntled parents joining this board."


Does anyone know whether Maine or Connecticut education officials have any jurisdiction over Hyde?  

Also, as several people have recommended, anyone with concerns about Hyde should absolutely share them with the agency that accredits Hyde: the New England Association of Schools and Colleges (Commission on Independent Schools) at http://www.neasc.org/cis/cis.htm (http://www.neasc.org/cis/cis.htm)

NEASC must hear about parents' concerns.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2005, 05:40:00 PM
The only one regulating Hyde is the NEASC.  They can't do a thing about the abuses unless you report them.  Hyde will continue as they do unless you bring all of this to their attention. The contact at the NEASC is the following:
   
William M. Bennett,
Director   tel. 781-271-0022 ext. 328
e-mail: [email protected]
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2005, 06:13:00 PM
Quote

Unfortunately unless you hire an attorney you are probably out of luck with getting any money back.  Hyde makes a fortune on all the parents who withdraw their kids during the year, which many do after discovering what the school is about.  Possibly many of you can try to get the same attorney in Ct or Bath and make a bigger impact by joining forces.  Do you have any suggestions, Lars?  As you can see there are more and more disgruntled parents joining this board."
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Lars on December 13, 2005, 06:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-13 15:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote


Unfortunately unless you hire an attorney you are probably out of luck with getting any money back.  Hyde makes a fortune on all the parents who withdraw their kids during the year, which many do after discovering what the school is about.  Possibly many of you can try to get the same attorney in Ct or Bath and make a bigger impact by joining forces.  Do you have any suggestions, Lars?  As you can see there are more and more disgruntled parents joining this board."

"



I wrote about this in an earlier post.  If you think you have a legal claim, consult a lawyer and don't worry about what other families are doing.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 01:56:00 PM
You will NEVER win...Hyde is too strong, and an excellent school. Stop crying :cry2:
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 04:40:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-12-14 10:56:00, Anonymous wrote:

"You will NEVER win...Hyde is too strong, and an excellent school. Stop crying :cry2: "


It's fine that you believe Hyde is an excellent school.  Others do too.  However, there's no denying that scores of Hyde alumni (students and parents) and current students/parents have reached the opposite conclusion, that Hyde is a terribly harmful school that can damage lives severely.  So, anyone considering Hyde should explore the school with their eyes WIDE open.
Title: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2005, 05:06:00 PM
"Scores" of people. Hahahaa, a little bit dramatic there. Stop being so exaggerative
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on September 08, 2008, 10:33:43 AM
Is there anyone out there with updated negative or positive information about Hyde?
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on September 09, 2008, 12:29:02 AM
Quote from: "Guest"
Is there anyone out there with updated negative or positive information about Hyde?

Are you asking whether Hyde School's modus operandi has changed?  (No.) Or do you have a particular question or arena of concern?

I can't tell whether you are a new visitor, or whether you are an Infrequent Regular who is just checking in... Fornits suffered a bit of a wipe-out recently and, for a variety of reasons, three months of material was lost (essentially March, April, May of this year). Things are still in the process of getting back to "normal."
Title: just found this board
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2008, 12:02:07 PM
I know several people who attended Hyde in the last few years, because I graduated from a "normal" prep school in New England (the kind for high-achieving, self-motivated students) and we competed with Hyde CT in sports.  The alumni I know all hated the school, and I had overheard worried discussions among parents in the boarding school world: "They don't have any psychologists on staff, or psychological evidence to back up these practices?  That's troubling."  "They way they treat sexuality and sexual activity is a little judgmental, possibly damaging."  

One person in particular simply learned to parrot what she was told, to say all the right things and cry on cue and hug the father she still hates in fake-forgiveness.  Now she's in a good college and back to being herself - smart, a Division 3 athlete, witty in her own quiet way, and a pot smoker (and legalization advocate, like I am, although that's another story) who writes some of her most insightful Literature essays with a joint in hand.  The only satisfaction she gets from thinking about her time at Hyde is some pride that she managed to grit her teeth and get through "the bullshit" (as she calls it), and trick everyone into believing she bought into it.  She was sent there because she was shy, smoked pot and went to parties during her freshman year in public high school, and (obviously) had conflict with her parents when they discovered the weekend drinking and smoking.  She's still shy, still likes to drink and smoke - the only difference is, now she seems happy and confident in herself, because the conflict with her parents is gone now that she's an adult.  Maybe all this just means that Hyde was not the right school for her, since it seems other students had much more serious problems that really needed addressing.  However, Hyde treated her the same as every other student, instead of looking at each kid as an individual with his/her own needs, and discouraged her parents from pulling her out by calling it "failure" and "weakness" and "fear" when she begged to be moved.

On a whim, after talking with her, I Googled the school and found this board.Thank you all for sharing your experiences.  After reading this and many, many other online accounts of dissatisfied students, I decided I had to post here, to give this page a "bump" in the search engines.  I hope parents trying to make tough decisions about their children's lives find their way here, so they can see a variety of opinions before they place a child somewhere that may not be right for them.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on October 02, 2008, 04:23:42 PM
Well, thanks very much for sharing that, GuestAgain... Your comments are most appreciated. The observations of a semi-impartial observer are that much harder to dismiss (than malcontented grumblings from we-of-little-character).

Interesting that you brought up your familiarity with Hyde School/several Hyde alumni through the experience of inter-school competition in sports. I do think that Hyde sees that arena as actually being an excellent venue of good PR, lol.

Team meetings, or whatever they are called these days, were yet another form of seminar/discovery group...in which your "character" could be confronted and skewered to no end. Woe be to the fatty whose heart raced to alarming rates during hill sprints. Fatty could  count on being confronted on his lack of commitment and bad attitude at the next available opportunity. Somehow that prospect was scarier than the--in some cases--very real possibility of having a heart attack (I knew someone who actually did have a medical heart condition, which certainly did not buy them any consideration while at Hyde).

Ever notice how Hyde fans always scream the loudest? Malcolm Gauld even brags about that in his blogs from time to time. Guess what? It's semi-obligatory; it's part of your character education. In my time there, kids who didn't scream their brains out would be confronted on their lack of concern for, and lack of commitment to, their classmates/teammates. Where's yer good ol' school spirit?

Shy or introspective kids (amongst others) can have a real tough time there. And I am not sure what the heck that has to do with "character."
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2008, 07:55:18 PM
I am new to this site.  Our family was involved with Hyde several years ago.  We deplored the school and its abusive, unskilled approach.  We met many families that felt similarly and who, like us, fled the school as quickly as possible.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on October 05, 2008, 08:26:48 PM
Here's an interesting post from earlier today, from another thread on fornits, that I find to be quite applicable here...

Why spend a year in a program when it can be done in a week
("So .... Why have programs at all?")
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25925&p=316338#p316328 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25925&p=316338#p316328)[/list]

Quote from: "alabama"
I think it's because programs aren't really designed to improve behavior. Well, they sort of are, and sort of aren't. From the perspective of a parent, this might be what they assume. After all, they are told some form of this variant to assuage their fears of the obvious intrusion into person hood they find themselves ready to engage in. To be honest though I have no idea what future program parents think, and I never will. Some say wait, when your kids are teenagers and become crack whores you will empathize with our decisions. The problem with that though is simple. I have already been through the wringer and my judgment is very much dependent upon my experience and memories. I just can't forget it at will, or even pretend to. I can theorize what a parent might think, a truly ignorant parent whose knowledge of programs is little more than a brochure and phone call. But I will never really know.

Back to behavior and whether or not it is improved. Some might tour a program, say a parent, and be amazed at how well behaved the kids are. From this outside perspective it might be surprising that a group of the roughest teenagers you could find, are so quiet and cordial. The problem with this assumption is two fold. First, the kids are not bad or as bad as most make them out to be. Second, the well behaved group of kids is trained in the art of emotional assassination and physical pain. They know not to speak out of turn for those simple yet effective reasons.

So it really depends and goes back to intent. We must question if the parents wish to have a well behaved, rather, quiet and obedient child, knowing full well of the means used to reach such a conclusion. One might assume that those receiving tours of programs who are amazed at the appearance of order might ask how it is done. You might also assume that the parents might ask this same question, and if we are lucky some sort of government official might become curious and ask this question. For it is in this question wherein lies the secrets.

How do you get a kid who smoked pot a couple times to admit freely and publicly to being a full-on drug addict for life?
How do you get a kid to admit their darkest deepest secrets in front of a large group of strangers, secrets they know full well will be used to hurt them, yet still reveal what most would take to the grave?
How do you change a rebellious free spirit into a sycophantic, fearful automaton in just a few months?
How exactly are these things accomplished, one might assume someone would ask.

The answers to these questions are complicated, brutal and ugly. Behavior modification is a codeword, euphemism for abuse, plain and simple. The idea so goes if you make a child so uncomfortable, as in pushing them to their human breaking point until you hear snap, they will be forced to reevaluate their life, and the decisions which led them to this reprogramming in the first place. The problem is the instant and most obvious, and usually correct answer is what led them to this place is their parents ignorant, mean-spirited, or generally stupid decision to send them. They might answer they would be in high school right now like a normal teen if not for their unnecessary and grossly overbearing parental intervention. They would probably be right. The programs feels otherwise.

Fast forward a few months and now ask that same kid why they are at the program. Nine times out of ten, the answer might surprise you. They will make no mention of their parents, or bad decisions. They have now learned to take "responsibility" and "accountability" for their actions in a way that would make any paying parent proud. The burden lifted and replaced, absolved, forgiven and forgotten. At this point the parents don't ask why or how, they are just happy with their adolescent 2.0, reprogrammed to be the stepford parents dream child.

The problem is there is a bug in the software. It only seems to work when installed on program hardware. You take the immense fear, intimidation, snitches, controlled environment, fence, censorship, abuse, emotional turmoil, sickness, terrible living conditions, relentless brainwashing sessions, blackmail familial love, etc, away - well then there is a problem. Suddenly the program software doesn't work so well. At this point you might assume the parents ask why that is. Were we conned, duped, bamboozled in an elaborate, expensive, diabolical hoax? Is that why the program limited and censored our contact and only sent us quarterly pictures, like a child held for ransom? Could what my child is telling me be true? Did I really spend all of that money to subsidize the systematic, long-term, unforgettable emotional and physical abuse of my very own child?

I assume people ask these questions. In that sense I think I might be wrong though. These are questions coming from an insider, courtesy of a front row seat to the all inclusive, parental endorsed horror show. So to me the questions are obvious. To them, well, I really don't know.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2008, 04:21:12 PM
I was there in the early 80s and about 1/2 were enrolled with behavior issues from wealthy famlies, the other 1/2 were either scholarship kids who were happy to get out of the city or kids with parents that were wooed by the schools philosophy and personalities. It was diverse for sure. The sharing of intimate details thing still gives me the willies, but all in all it was "positive" (abiet expensive) experience.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 22, 2008, 05:52:32 PM
Quote from: "guest"
I was there in the early 80s and about 1/2 were enrolled with behavior issues from wealthy famlies, the other 1/2 were either scholarship kids who were happy to get out of the city or kids with parents that were wooed by the schools philosophy and personalities. It was diverse for sure. The sharing of intimate details thing still gives me the willies, but all in all it was "positive" (abiet expensive) experience.

  God bless you my child, we needed some bear bait to liven things up around here.   I was beginning to think that hyde was irrelevant, no one cared and we were on out way to evisioning a reality with Hyde.  But the maelstrom of energy is strong around the one they call Joe.  

Father Tim S.J.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on October 27, 2008, 12:57:34 AM
Quote from: "Father Tim"
Quote from: "guest"
I was there in the early 80s and about 1/2 were enrolled with behavior issues from wealthy famlies, the other 1/2 were either scholarship kids who were happy to get out of the city or kids with parents that were wooed by the schools philosophy and personalities. It was diverse for sure. The sharing of intimate details thing still gives me the willies, but all in all it was "positive" (abiet expensive) experience.

God bless you my child, we needed some bear bait to liven things up around here. I was beginning to think that hyde was irrelevant, no one cared and we were on out way to evisioning a reality with Hyde. But the maelstrom of energy is strong around the one they call Joe.  

Father Tim S.J.

Hell's bell's, Father Tim, but methinks you'll be having to yank our dear friend Mikey out of his Ivory Tower for a bit, to be laying the bait right proper. God knows, he must be bored to death by his dearth of mirth by now...  :seg:

@guest: Tell me, were you there for the "changing of the guard?" Perhaps that should be more properly termed "reversion." For all of Legg's righteous espousal of "Truth," I found him to be--in his own way--one of the more perniciously dishonest people Hyde School ever had in their administration.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2008, 11:24:58 AM
I don't remember much about the faculty there. One year I came back and ED Legg was no longer there. I actually remember him as a pretty astute teacher. The others were not memorable in the least. I better amused by some of the kids that came and went. One genious was this guy who used to disappear each night after we would all "go the the store". Here he was taking his popcorn and soda and camping out behind the "new Dorm". It was a girls dorm and shaped as a horseshoe arround him and no one ever thought to put up drapes. So he could watch all the back room occupants getting ready for bed. I think it went on like that for almost a full year before he was discovered. He did not last long after that, I wonder where he is now? Jail?, Wall Street?, high school gym teacher?
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2008, 12:47:25 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I don't remember much about the faculty there. One year I came back and ED Legg was no longer there. I actually remember him as a pretty astute teacher. The others were not memorable in the least. I better amused by some of the kids that came and went. One genious was this guy who used to disappear each night after we would all "go the the store". Here he was taking his popcorn and soda and camping out behind the "new Dorm". It was a girls dorm and shaped as a horseshoe arround him and no one ever thought to put up drapes. So he could watch all the back room occupants getting ready for bed. I think it went on like that for almost a full year before he was discovered. He did not last long after that, I wonder where he is now? Jail?, Wall Street?, high school gym teacher?

  I think he was teaching at Hyde Woodstock.   Wasn't his name Dubcowawitz or Dubgurberfarb?
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2008, 02:37:25 PM
R U talking about Larry Do-be-stinky? He's from the 70s.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on October 29, 2008, 10:45:47 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
I don't remember much about the faculty there. One year I came back and ED Legg was no longer there. I actually remember him as a pretty astute teacher. The others were not memorable in the least.

Oh, he certainly had his moments of intelligence; I wouldn't want to begrudge him those. But I think his involvement with the whole Hyde School gig sprung primarily out of a species of political aspiration, rather than any deep-seated desire to help kids. And I think those kinds of priorities enabled him to make--and rationalize--a number of unethical actions and choices.

Do you remember which year this was (that he was no longer there)?
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on October 29, 2008, 11:17:13 PM
Quote from: "Guest"
...I better amused by some of the kids that came and went. One genious was this guy who used to disappear each night after we would all "go the the store". Here he was taking his popcorn and soda and camping out behind the "new Dorm". It was a girls dorm and shaped as a horseshoe arround him and no one ever thought to put up drapes. So he could watch all the back room occupants getting ready for bed. I think it went on like that for almost a full year before he was discovered. He did not last long after that, I wonder where he is now? Jail?, Wall Street?, high school gym teacher?

 :roflmao:  The first thought that popped into mind--re. the query "where is he now?"--was a flippant "He must be teaching at Hyde!" (a la Larry Dubinsky, as We Willy Winky and Beavis alluded to...) But, yeah, he was before (and after) your time.

Those dorms have changed gender a number of times; I can't even keep track anymore. The drape thing was probably a rule so that the occupants couldn't get away with any shenanigans.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on November 17, 2008, 09:33:36 PM
i am currently a student at hyde and am leaving in 2 days after i take my finals...i dont know how many of you are farmiliar with "summer challenge" at hyde but it is very misleading...it tricked me and my parents....summer challenge was easy and fun...so i thought why not ill give it a chance...it wasnt until school started that the 40,000 dollars was in there hands and the propaganda was over...for the last 3 months ive been living in hell and my parents are finally realizing it...the way the faculty treats you is rediculous...just last week there was 60 kids out to work because of the threats to students that they will have no vacation and no finals...this lead to the so called "brothers keeper" of this school...they held kids in rooms for hours until they dropped names...did i mention we arent part of the commmunity when we are being punished and we eat on the floor above the cafateria...now that i am leaving i am ready to expose this cult and could use all the help i can get...
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on November 18, 2008, 12:46:54 PM
Quote from: "dbuteau"
i am currently a student at hyde and am leaving in 2 days after i take my finals...i dont know how many of you are farmiliar with "summer challenge" at hyde but it is very misleading...it tricked me and my parents....summer challenge was easy and fun...so i thought why not ill give it a chance...it wasnt until school started that the 40,000 dollars was in there hands and the propaganda was over...for the last 3 months ive been living in hell and my parents are finally realizing it...the way the faculty treats you is rediculous...just last week there was 60 kids out to work because of the threats to students that they will have no vacation and no finals...this lead to the so called "brothers keeper" of this school...they held kids in rooms for hours until they dropped names...did i mention we arent part of the commmunity when we are being punished and we eat on the floor above the cafateria...now that i am leaving i am ready to expose this cult and could use all the help i can get...

Hey, dbuteau -- be careful that Hyde doesn't read your emails. One poster even reported that their correspondence with a friend had been altered by Hyde. I'm not sure if that was a text filter that substituted more "palatable" words for those which were considered offensive, but kinda creepy either way!

There have also been incidents reported in the past where the Administration hasn't been too happy with students who have left early, or with what they have posted here and/or elsewhere, and has retaliated by withholding personal property and/or delaying release of transcripts.

About the $40,000, I would suggest that your parents consider a lawsuit. Sounds like "false advertising" to me. Do a search on this forum for former Hyde parent "Gary Eskow"; his email should be posted somewhere. He has walked in those shoes before, and might be a good source of some advice and perspective. (As have several others, but they haven't posted their contact info!)

Point your parents in the direction of this forum. If you think they might be too overwhelmed by the angry sentiment and the tales of Hyde's hypocrisy and assault history, have them check out International Survivor's Action Committee (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/watchlist.asp), though the documents on file there are but the tip of the iceberg.

Above all, keep the faith! You are not alone. And be sure to keep us posted, especially when you are in a safer place.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2008, 02:01:55 AM
Ha ha! Bust time again? Bath or Woodstock? Hyde cant survive without cooking up drama like this!
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2008, 03:43:51 AM
What's it to you, Mr. Counselor?
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2008, 05:56:17 AM
JACKSONVILLE, Fla., July 9 /PRNewswire/ --

The following was released today by Ellis Rubin:

In February of 2000, 12-year-old Michael Wiltsie was wrongfully killed by a counselor at E-Kel-Etu boot camp, located in Marion County, Florida, near the city of Ocala. With other children and Eckerd staff watching, camp counselor Joseph Cooley violently forced Michael Wiltsie face down on the ground in a wooded area. Cooley, who weighed well in excess of 300 pounds proceeded to lay on top of Michael, who weighed only 65 pounds. For more than 15 minutes the child begged for help, but …

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-76392482.html (http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-76392482.html)
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on November 20, 2008, 08:29:50 PM
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "dbuteau"
i am currently a student at hyde and am leaving in 2 days after i take my finals...

<snip snip>

...now that i am leaving i am ready to expose this cult and could use all the help i can get...

<snip snip>

...Do a search on this forum for former Hyde parent "Gary Eskow"; his email should be posted somewhere. He has walked in those shoes before, and might be a good source of some advice and perspective. (As have several others, but they haven't posted their contact info!)

Point your parents in the direction of this forum. If you think they might be too overwhelmed by the angry sentiment and the tales of Hyde's hypocrisy and assault history, have them check out International Survivor's Action Committee (http://http://www.isaccorp.org/watchlist.asp), though the documents on file there are but the tip of the iceberg...

Gary Eskow's fornits contact info: click HERE (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=4307)

He has a doc on file at the IsacCorp site which might serve as a good ice breaker, in case you or your parents want to contact him.

Also, feel free to PM me (or others) in the event that you have a question you want to keep off the threads.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on November 22, 2008, 12:09:21 PM
Quote
...just last week there was 60 kids out to work because of the threats to students that they will have no vacation and no finals...

is the school getting free labor out of this? sounds illegal
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on November 22, 2008, 12:49:01 PM
Quote from: "GUEST"
Quote
...just last week there was 60 kids out to work because of the threats to students that they will have no vacation and no finals...

is the school getting free labor out of this? sounds illegal

Hyde certainly depends on a required amount of "giving back to the community," but the hard work and sweat of 60 kids' worth would suggest that they might be short on the maintenance crew this year.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on November 22, 2008, 12:57:53 PM
Quote from: "dbuteau"
...for the last 3 months ive been living in hell and my parents are finally realizing it...the way the faculty treats you is rediculous...just last week there was 60 kids out to work because of the threats to students that they will have no vacation and no finals...this lead to the so called "brothers keeper" of this school...they held kids in rooms for hours until they dropped names...did i mention we arent part of the commmunity when we are being punished and we eat on the floor above the cafateria...now that i am leaving i am ready to expose this cult and could use all the help i can get...
Quote from: "Counselor Cares-Alot"
Ha ha! Bust time again? Bath or Woodstock? Hyde cant survive without cooking up drama like this!

It would appear that there is an unhealthy institutional need for catharsis endemic to The Program at Hyde Schools... Perhaps the Hyde Administration is addicted to the concomitant endorphin release that must surely accompany such purges. Limbic brain stimulation, anyone?

This is generally not a positive event. There is an excess of personal hell and psychic terror going around, with the intended outcome of cleaving those deemed worthy from those deemed deficient. A judgment that, I might add, appears to reside more with how much one buys into the program or how one's personality fits in with the alleged ideal, than it does with the quality of one's character.

The Big Busts (if this is what is going on now) were not so frequent -- once or twice every two years, if I recall? ...My memory fails me. More typical and endemic to "life at Hyde" were the smaller busts or personal witch hunts of individual students and sometimes even faculty.

I see that not much has changed. Certainly nothing on the gut level of it all.

The eventual result, IMO, sooner or later, sometimes much later, is cynicism, disillusion, and blowback. Hardly a foundation upon which to build "character," more like fodder for some potentially serious psychological problems further on down the line.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 29, 2008, 12:36:36 PM
so sad to read how little small humans have to do. fornits is definitley not the place where quality resides.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: psy on December 29, 2008, 01:25:59 PM
Quote from: "journalist"
so sad to read how little small humans have to do. fornits is definitley not the place where quality resides.
Need I remind, you are both reading and posting here.  Consider staying and reading a while.  You might change your mind about some things.  Keep in mind, though that the forum is unmoderated so the range of quality runs the full gamut from batshit crazy to enlightened philosophy (the ratio of which few can agree on).
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on December 30, 2008, 12:46:54 PM
Quote from: "journalist"
so sad to read how little small humans have to do. fornits is definitley not the place where quality resides.

  IS that the best you can do?  I will tell you what's sad: a ad hominim attacks.  Lets see some of that good critical thinking you were taught at hyde.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on December 30, 2008, 01:38:25 PM
Quote from: "last man in the relay"
Quote from: "journalist"
so sad to read how little small humans have to do. fornits is definitley not the place where quality resides.

  IS that the best you can do?  I will tell you what's sad: a ad hominim attacks.  Lets see some of that good critical thinking you were taught at hyde.

I was thinking of some acerbic witty comment along the lines of hamsters in their wheels after that comment was made yesterday...but thought better of it when psy offered up an olive branch of sorts.

Do you really think "journalist" can actually come up with more than just a miserly hit-and-run?

Prove me wrong, hamster!!  ::evil::
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2009, 08:40:09 PM
I went to Hyde about a decade ago. It is hard for me to see the 2-4s and 5:30s as torture, as some people have suggested. Unless things have changed, it is possible to mostly avoid having to participate in these things if you refrain from drinking, smoking, drugs, cheating, lying, or knowing about people who do any of those things. (Let's face it-- Brother's Keeper is easy to avoid if you tell people that you don't want to know. Not a big deal.) As for the leadership stuff, sure, some of it is fake or feels fake. What I got out of that was to learn how to balance doing what people expected of me with living by my own standards. In my life, living within other people's expectations of me was only bad when I lost myself in trying to please others. Hyde can create a culture of extremes, where people totally fight the system or totally behave while losing their identity. I grew there by living in the space between. I wasn't the best senior or the best student, but I stayed out of trouble and did well without forfeiting my identity.

I don't think that Hyde is always good for people, and I do think that sometimes the people who get the most credit are fake, but I also think that having some of the conversations with people about my personal standards and having the courage to take a level of leadership that I felt comfortable with-- not that my class expected of me-- helped me become a strong and independent person. I also felt that the family program was good for my family life which was, at the time that I went, totally horrible. My family thought I was a monster.

Not to say that the same is true for everyone, but for me, the way I interpreted what was going on and my deliberate decision to make the most out of going there (which was initially not what I wanted) made the experience productive. Though the one-size-fits-all thing was an issue in my time, I also think that if I had dismissed everything at Hyde in a universal sort of way, I would have wasted the three years of my life that I spent there. I was/am not traumatized.

No one really got in my face much, except maybe in sports, and I responded to my scarier coaches by working harder. I never liked dorm workouts or group accountability. I still don't view those things as torture. There has always been a lot of drama at Hyde, which has perhaps made me willing to cope with much more drama than I would have otherwise, but for me, it is where I grew up.  I hope the school does well. I am sad that some of its methods are hurting the school's potential to lead. I think that the five words and principles are a good foundation for education if they are utilized to truly talk about potential instead of to make kids behave. The focus on all of the rebel kids functions as one big diversion from having young people create their big dreams.

I do think that the current trend in education toward pathologizing everything that kids do is a bad thing. It would have made me even crazier if my overprotective parents had been given some great label to explain why I fought against so many of their decisions and misbehaved so much. I wasn't crazy. Our family was crazy. I didn't feel better until my family life changed dramatically. I am grateful that I didn't get sent to a special school and that Hyde claimed to be "college prep" because I got to go to a good university and did well. If my parents had chosen to send me to a school for crazy kids, I would have been really screwed up by the whole experience and might have thought that they were right-- that it all was my fault. I am personally glad that I went to Hyde. It is interesting to see how other people fared. I found this web site because I was interested in seeing what was happening to the "bad teens" of today. I would have expected more positive opinions of Hyde in hindsight... Maybe it was different in the guys' dorm.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2009, 09:23:05 PM
so..if this place totally screwed up some of your classsmates, that was ok with you?
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 12, 2009, 11:38:32 PM
No. That is not okay with me. But I am also hearing many people claim that 2-4 and 5:30s were the problem. Being on 2-4 and 5:30 is a choice, akin to putting your hand on the stove: if it hurts, move your hand. I think that some of the ways in which Hyde is "not good" for kids comes from the ways or intensity with which they dole out consequences. All I'm saying is that it is possible to choose to live within the Hyde framework without drawing negative attention/ negative consequences to yourself. I do not think that a person has to compromise his or her integrity to live within the Hyde framework in most cases. I do see that shy kids were at a greater disadvantage than outgoing kids and that sporty kids were at a greater advantage than non-athletic kids. I still don't see that as a reason to shut it down. Maybe I'm cynical, but I can't imagine a single school unblemished by scandal. Without minimizing other people's experiences, that was my perspective when I was there, and that is my perspective now. I do see that the school has problems and could use an influx of new ideas. I hope that it does and that it continues to survive. The kids that it helps deserve a place to go. The kids it hurts deserve a chance to leave.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2009, 02:18:21 PM
Hey,

  I share your ambivalence about Hyde.  The thing that is incomprehensible to me is some of the choices it has made in recent years.  Choices like letting pedophiles back on campus, giving diplomas to shills for cults ....  There are pieces that do seem to work for some people but by the same token sometimes they really do more damage then good for others.  They seem to stand back and take a sort of libertarian stand on that and caulk it up to individual choice, which I view as Hyde ducking its own accountability, a highly unethical stand for an institution that proports to be  leader in a sort of secular morality.  And that observation would lead me to comment on the Hyde's cult like nature that cause none of that to ever be questioned.   On the whole too many turds in the punch bowl for me to want to have a sip.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on January 13, 2009, 03:53:36 PM
Hey, thanks for posting! Nice to find someone actually willing to engage in some debate.  ;)

Quote from: "Guest"
I went to Hyde about a decade ago. It is hard for me to see the 2-4s and 5:30s as torture, as some people have suggested. Unless things have changed, it is possible to mostly avoid having to participate in these things if you refrain from drinking, smoking, drugs, cheating, lying, or knowing about people who do any of those things. (Let's face it-- Brother's Keeper is easy to avoid if you tell people that you don't want to know. Not a big deal.)
Quote from: "Guest"
...I am also hearing many people claim that 2-4 and 5:30s were the problem. Being on 2-4 and 5:30 is a choice, akin to putting your hand on the stove: if it hurts, move your hand. I think that some of the ways in which Hyde is "not good" for kids comes from the ways or intensity with which they dole out consequences. All I'm saying is that it is possible to choose to live within the Hyde framework without drawing negative attention/ negative consequences to yourself.
With all due respect, the whole issue of the work crew/2-4 and 5:30's is but one of the more obvious and physically tangible aspects of the abuse. I agree with you that it is usually possible to avoid them, but there have been cases where Hyde was wrong about the presumed culprit and refused to believe the word of a kid they wanted to teach a lesson or two.

Let's face it, unless you fall within the parameters of the desired personality type, how Hyde School adjudges a "bad attitude" is a highly subjective thing. And if they don't like you, it really doesn't matter what "the truth" of the matter is. A witch hunt can be commenced for any premise or fantasy they can think of. Consequently, you can actually be a "true believer" and still reap the burden of being a pariah in their midst.

Quote from: "Guest"
I do see that shy kids were at a greater disadvantage than outgoing kids and that sporty kids were at a greater advantage than non-athletic kids.
I totally agree with you here. I would go further to say that Hyde School does attempt to rewrite certain (generally introspective) kids' personalities, which is a very dangerous thing to do, from a psychological perspective, not to mention that it is being practiced by complete hacks with a missionary agenda on their minds.

Quote from: "Guest"
I do not think that a person has to compromise his or her integrity to live within the Hyde framework in most cases... Maybe I'm cynical, but I can't imagine a single school unblemished by scandal. Without minimizing other people's experiences, that was my perspective when I was there, and that is my perspective now.
Seriously, the amount of sexual predation that goes on at this place is substantially more than the average school's scandal or two. And these are just the cases that have come to light. Given Hyde School's penchant for squashing the truth and for bullying and humiliating victims of sexual assault, let alone brainwashing them into thinking they are at cause, I think it stands to reason that the 'known cases' to 'actual cases' ratio is considerably less than it might be under less coercive circumstances.

And when these cases do come to light, do you actually believe, even for a wishful school spirit moment, that any bona fide educational institution would still treat these cases as Hyde School continues to do, year after year, nigh on thirty-five years since the first known case? If Hyde School cannot succeed in traumatizing the student in question into silence, they will discredit him or her in the eyes of the entire Hyde community, sweep the facts under the rug and/or completely lie about them, pay off the lawsuits, and go back to business as usual. There is absolutely zero concern for what happens to the victim. (What do you think does happen to these victims?)

All this from an organization that portrays itself as the family-oriented expert on integrity and parenting. Lol... Quite frankly, I could have learned more about honesty and integrity from Crazy Eddie.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2009, 01:19:18 AM
The rebels were actually conformists to their kid rebel culture. Hyde changed it for an adult authoritarian culture, co-run by the kids. Hyde is premised on the fact that it is often difficult for people to resist the norms prevalent in their societies.  You have to unlearn those lessons in conformity.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2009, 01:37:27 AM
Conformity is not morality.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2009, 02:08:51 AM
Quote from: "Hyde guest"
The rebels were actually conformists to their kid rebel culture. Hyde changed it for an adult authoritarian culture, co-run by the kids. Hyde is premised on the fact that it is often difficult for people to resist the norms prevalent in their societies.  You have to unlearn those lessons in conformity.
I hear what you are saying, but it was never "co-run" by the kids. That is a farce perpetrated by the keepers of the cult. They just got the kids to participate in the exacting of other kids' conformity to "the Hyde Way." Participation made one believe one had ownership of "the process."

Anyway, you left out what happens to the kids who were/are true individualists and loners. I'll tell you what happens to them. They get expelled or the school pressures them to run away. By the very nature of their last moments, and by the very nature of their inherent natures, they are cut out of the communication loop. They don't impact the bogus college attendance statistics, and others don't hear their truths. End of story.

Quote from: "Hyde guest"
Conformity is not morality.
So true.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2009, 04:41:03 AM
Quote from: "Hyde guest"
Conformity is not morality.

  It was more then just conformity.  To succeed you needed to embrace a dogma.  If you did not embrace it you were coerced to do so. If you thought differently, you were bound to fail.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2009, 05:23:40 AM
I wonder how many embrace it, how many reject it, and how many outwardly adhere to the practices of Hyde but never really internalize them. My guess is 20-60-20.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2009, 05:24:49 AM
I meant 20-20-60.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 14, 2009, 08:38:42 AM
Quote from: "Hyde guest"
I meant 20-20-60.

  One of the things that struck me, is the kids that walked with a diploma, got out and said "what a bunch of bullshit."  The motivation for Hyde, according to Joe, was a system that could not be gamed like the classical prep school model.  A couple of catch phrases come to mind like "same shit different shovel" or "met the new boss same as the old boss"  I could go on but I think you get the gist of it.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on January 14, 2009, 02:07:14 PM
Quote from: "OSC"
One of the things that struck me, is the kids that walked with a diploma, got out and said "what a bunch of bullshit."  The motivation for Hyde, according to Joe, was a system that could not be gamed like the classical prep school model.  A couple of catch phrases come to mind like "same shit different shovel" or "met the new boss same as the old boss"  I could go on but I think you get the gist of it.

Methinks the shit is a mighty bit stinkier. Even the most cynical self-serving prep school, with a deeply ingrained old boy network stretching back a century, could not possibly have dealt with the abusive crap that has gone on at Hyde School with the duplicity, dishonesty, and utter lack of moral backbone that Hyde has chosen to employ. Certainly not, in this day and age, for at least thirty-five years. Which begs the question: Why?

Do these people actually believe all these kids were just bad eggs and were lying, and that they deserved to be doubly punished through their subsequent humiliation at the hands of the Hyde Mob Court? Hey, we're the "character experts" so it can't be us who is at fault!

Or are all these kids merely within the window of loss, and the ends justify the means? Sure there'll be transgressions, and it can't be helped, but we're busy saving other kids so it's all good!

Culty, culty culty!!
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2009, 07:24:33 AM
You need Hyde to think you’re playing along. You do what you like later, but you need to make them think you’re one of them. We laughed about it all the way to graduation.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on January 17, 2009, 08:16:29 AM
After all we were being schooled in sports and performing arts.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on March 20, 2009, 02:12:00 AM
Quote from: "uninvited guest"
Quote from: "Hyde guest"
The rebels were actually conformists to their kid rebel culture. Hyde changed it for an adult authoritarian culture, co-run by the kids. Hyde is premised on the fact that it is often difficult for people to resist the norms prevalent in their societies.  You have to unlearn those lessons in conformity.
I hear what you are saying, but it was never "co-run" by the kids. That is a farce perpetrated by the keepers of the cult. They just got the kids to participate in the exacting of other kids' conformity to "the Hyde Way." Participation made one believe one had ownership of "the process."

"Co-enforced." The kids were part of the enforcement mechanism.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on March 20, 2009, 10:30:17 AM
Quote from: "Hyde guest"
Quote from: "uninvited guest"
Quote from: "Hyde guest"
The rebels were actually conformists to their kid rebel culture. Hyde changed it for an adult authoritarian culture, co-run by the kids. Hyde is premised on the fact that it is often difficult for people to resist the norms prevalent in their societies.  You have to unlearn those lessons in conformity.
I hear what you are saying, but it was never "co-run" by the kids. That is a farce perpetrated by the keepers of the cult. They just got the kids to participate in the exacting of other kids' conformity to "the Hyde Way." Participation made one believe one had ownership of "the process."
"Co-enforced." The kids were part of the enforcement mechanism.

H Y D E =

H itler
Y outh,
D edicated
E nforcers
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on April 17, 2009, 02:45:37 PM
My former step-daughter went to Hyde and the most dangerous thing I found about Hyde  was how easily she got away with manipulating and dishonesty and in spite of being called out on it, she continued.  She accused her father of physical abuse and her mother called her out on it as an absolute lie, I called her out on it, her dad was devastated over the accusation, and nobody at the "session" seemed to be worried that she just lied, was caught dead to rights, and moved on as if nothing had happened.

Now, several years after graduation, her life skills learned at Hyde have allowed her to flunk out of community college after 3 semesters (and 6 earned credits), had her hooked up with addict after addict, fired from many jobs due to attendance issues (how can you work and drug at the same time), several pregnancy scares, and a general lack of morals. What that kid needed (and still needs) was consistant steady parents (not one self absorbed mother and alcoholic absentee father) and counseling to help with her self esteem.


Did Hyde work for her - no. Why? Because Hyde is just a place for parents to dump the kids they cant handle (She has a choice - Foster care or Hyde) and buy them a very expensive high school diploma. Or it is for parents who buy into the hype and beleive it is a life altering place for their child.  Did Hyde let her down?  No more than her parents did.  

Now as far as the cult like atmosphere.  Oh yes, it existed when we were there. Parents who express disaticfaction are treated poorly and forget about the cost and the fact that they also strong arm you for an additional "donation".  Smart kids can play the system and get by and the smart parents (who didnt want Junior living back home) play the system as well.  

And it is absolutely true that if your child runs away Hyde does tell you not to let them back home.  The Gaulds are very full of themselves and Ken and Laura are just as bad. Hardly knew the McCrans (not sure of the spelling but Duncan and his wife) because I personally dropped out of the Hyde parent program then because of what I saw as its absolute failure to do any good.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on April 18, 2009, 05:28:53 PM
Quote from: "guesttttttt"
My former step-daughter went to Hyde and the most dangerous thing I found about Hyde  was how easily she got away with manipulating and dishonesty and in spite of being called out on it, she continued.  She accused her father of physical abuse and her mother called her out on it as an absolute lie, I called her out on it, her dad was devastated over the accusation, and nobody at the "session" seemed to be worried that she just lied, was caught dead to rights, and moved on as if nothing had happened.

Just for clarification, I am assuming that this was one of the seminars or Discovery groups held over the course of a Family Weekend or FLC, yes? Where there are about 20-30 other people (#?) in the room hearing your extremely private personal story and nobody there has any actual bona fide therapeutic experience or recognized credentials whatsoever, amiright? ...But Hyde seems to think that "caring" should be enough!

Quote from: "guesttttttt"
Now, several years after graduation, her life skills learned at Hyde have allowed her to flunk out of community college after 3 semesters (and 6 earned credits), had her hooked up with addict after addict, fired from many jobs due to attendance issues (how can you work and drug at the same time), several pregnancy scares, and a general lack of morals. What that kid needed (and still needs) was consistant steady parents (not one self absorbed mother and alcoholic absentee father) and counseling to help with her self esteem.

Did Hyde work for her - no. Why? Because Hyde is just a place for parents to dump the kids they cant handle (She has a choice - Foster care or Hyde) and buy them a very expensive high school diploma. Or it is for parents who buy into the hype and beleive it is a life altering place for their child.  Did Hyde let her down?  No more than her parents did.

Lols. IMO, Hyde School is the last place a kid in need of some self-esteem should go. Oh, they can sure heap it on the "chosen ones": offspring of the cultic elite and/or scions of very generous and well-washed benefactors, not to mention good "character development" spokes-model types for future use... But, that's hardly reality-based and doesn't always last outside of the Hyde bubble.

Perhaps more relevant to the perspective of the average kid is the fact that Hyde School sees the whole process of character development as being innately difficult and obligatorily fraught with painful soul searching. "No pain, no gain." [A particular Helen Keller quote that is plastered throughout Hyde's literature also comes to mind, but I can't seem to find it at the moment...] Hence the "Hyde experience" is filled with seemingly arbitrary tasks and group sessions that can sometimes feel like a veritable gauntlet of confrontation and humiliation.

Plus, irregardless of what they may tell parents, Hyde has tremendous disdain for any psychiatric or psychological diagnoses, so if your kid has depression, bipolar, and/or similar issues, these will be treated like character flaws. Not good for building self-esteem or as a substitute for the steady hand of loving parents, if you ask me...

Quote from: "guesttttttt"
Now as far as the cult like atmosphere.  Oh yes, it existed when we were there. Parents who express disaticfaction are treated poorly and forget about the cost and the fact that they also strong arm you for an additional "donation".  Smart kids can play the system and get by and the smart parents (who didnt want Junior living back home) play the system as well.  

And it is absolutely true that if your child runs away Hyde does tell you not to let them back home.  The Gaulds are very full of themselves and Ken and Laura are just as bad. Hardly knew the McCrans (not sure of the spelling but Duncan and his wife) because I personally dropped out of the Hyde parent program then because of what I saw as its absolute failure to do any good.

That "cult like atmosphere" isn't just in the air. Do searches on the Hyde School portion of fornits to find connections to: Landmark Forum, est, Lifespring, Ramtha, Mankind Project/New Warrior Training Adventure, therapeutic communities (forerunner of Guided Group Interaction and Positive Peer Culture) and more to come!  :D  

There's even a recent thread on the "Hyde-Hoffman Process (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=26801)," which I am interpreting as Joe's version of the Hoffman Quadrinity Process (think est + Lifespring + some psychological mumbo jumbo about finding your inner child). It appears that Hyde is now pressuring parents, staff, and alumni to take this 8-day LGAT because they will be offering it right at the school.
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Ursus on May 07, 2009, 12:52:21 PM
Quote from: "Ursus"
Perhaps more relevant to the perspective of the average kid is the fact that Hyde School sees the whole process of character development as being innately difficult and obligatorily fraught with painful soul searching. "No pain, no gain." [A particular Helen Keller quote that is plastered throughout Hyde's literature also comes to mind, but I can't seem to find it at the moment...] Hence the "Hyde experience" is filled with seemingly arbitrary tasks and group sessions that can sometimes feel like a veritable gauntlet of confrontation and humiliation.
   
Found that Heller Keller quote, bold emphasis mine:

cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
-- Helen Keller[/list]
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quote ... 01340.html (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/h/helenkelle101340.html)[/list]
Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
Post by: Anonymous on May 07, 2009, 04:09:27 PM
Quote from: "Ursus"
Quote from: "Ursus"
Perhaps more relevant to the perspective of the average kid is the fact that Hyde School sees the whole process of character development as being innately difficult and obligatorily fraught with painful soul searching. "No pain, no gain." [A particular Helen Keller quote that is plastered throughout Hyde's literature also comes to mind, but I can't seem to find it at the moment...] Hence the "Hyde experience" is filled with seemingly arbitrary tasks and group sessions that can sometimes feel like a veritable gauntlet of confrontation and humiliation.
   
Found that Heller Keller quote, bold emphasis mine:

    "Character
cannot be developed in ease and quiet. Only through experience of trial and suffering can the soul be strengthened, ambition inspired, and success achieved."
    -- Helen Keller[/list]
    http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quote ... 01340.html (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/h/helenkelle101340.html)[/list]

    Well,  I don't know about that.  I think the experience of loving some one risking yourself and putting your faith in them and having that pay off is both a pleasurable and character building experience.   So score a hit for the S of J. and a maggies drawers for Helen and Joe.

    Go in Peace my child
    My the love of our Saviour protect you
    Farther Tim
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 08, 2009, 06:54:38 AM
    Joe has no more use for love and fidelity than a bear would know what to do with a toilet.
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 08, 2009, 11:09:47 AM
    Quote from: "Hyde Guest"
    Joe has no more use for love and fidelity than a bear would know what to do with a toilet.

      Well, I am not sure that is true either.  While I disagree with Joe on many things, he is one of God's creations, and the wisdom of God surpasses man's ability to comprehend.  So what is Joe's purpose in God's plan? God only knows. Did he who made the Lamb make thee?

    You Brother in Christ's Love
    Fr Tim
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 08, 2009, 11:20:02 AM
    Much like the wisdom of the toilet surpasses the bear's ability to comprehend.
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 15, 2009, 10:44:46 AM
    Quote from: "Fr Tim O'Leary S.J."
    Quote from: "Hyde Guest"
    Joe has no more use for love and fidelity than a bear would know what to do with a toilet.

      Well, I am not sure that is true either.  While I disagree with Joe on many things, he is one of God's creations, and the wisdom of God surpasses man's ability to comprehend.  So what is Joe's purpose in God's plan? God only knows. Did he who made the Lamb make thee?

    You Brother in Christ's Love
    Fr Tim

    "You'll have to forgive us Jews for being a little nervous. Two thousand years of Christian love have worn down our nerves."
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 15, 2009, 02:55:56 PM
    Quote from: "Hyde Guest"
    Quote from: "Fr Tim O'Leary S.J."
    Quote from: "Hyde Guest"
    Joe has no more use for love and fidelity than a bear would know what to do with a toilet.

      Well, I am not sure that is true either.  While I disagree with Joe on many things, he is one of God's creations, and the wisdom of God surpasses man's ability to comprehend.  So what is Joe's purpose in God's plan? God only knows. Did he who made the Lamb make thee?

    You Brother in Christ's Love
    Fr Tim

    "You'll have to forgive us Jews for being a little nervous. Two thousand years of Christian love have worn down our nerves."

    No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!  

    your from the Passion Play in Oberammergau,

    Father Tim
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 21, 2009, 12:19:12 PM
    Quote from: "Father Tim SJ"
    Quote from: "Hyde Guest"
    Quote from: "Fr Tim O'Leary S.J."
    Quote from: "Hyde Guest"
    Joe has no more use for love and fidelity than a bear would know what to do with a toilet.

      Well, I am not sure that is true either.  While I disagree with Joe on many things, he is one of God's creations, and the wisdom of God surpasses man's ability to comprehend.  So what is Joe's purpose in God's plan? God only knows. Did he who made the Lamb make thee?

    You Brother in Christ's Love
    Fr Tim

    "You'll have to forgive us Jews for being a little nervous. Two thousand years of Christian love have worn down our nerves."

    No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!  

    your from the Passion Play in Oberammergau,

    Father Tim

    Talking about faith today is a frightening business. Just the word evokes assassins, the cut throats of women and defenseless babies in villages, bombs and flares that fall killing hundreds of human beings, walls going up, suicide bombings, temples blown to pieces, cities devastated, lives extinguished with cruelty and cynicism. But in the past few centuries it wasn’t like that. Something, perhaps reason, had reined in the homicidal fury that had previously taken possession of those who professed a faith, through slaughters, stakes, tortures, rendering repugnant precisely that motion that had raised man up man from an animal state. So is it all starting over?

    Giorgio Pressburger, Prologue to “Sulla fede”
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 21, 2009, 12:42:29 PM
    There is a difference between faith and tribalism.  The shia and the sunnis killing each other is not much different then soccer hooliganism.  That is hard to tease out especially for Jews and Christians.  All the stories after the creation story are based on this tribe and how God chose the tribe and let the tribe smite the enemy when they obeyed god and let the enemy carry them of to Babylon  when they were bad.  God tell stories in the current vernacular.
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 21, 2009, 01:46:09 PM
    If you are saying that the difference between faith and tribalism is the difference between tolerance and intolerance, I disagree. If you're tracing tribalism to ancient Judaism, I disagree with that too.

    To start with the second claim: Israel was a chosen nation, not a universalizing faith. The ancient Jews didn't ever try to conquer and convert the nations. That's not part of Judaism. So there's never been intolerance of other religions on the part of Jews. According to Judaism, the nations have always been eligible for divine favor. In fact, living by the covenant only made it harder for Jews than for the nations to remain in divine favor. So I don't agree with the apparent claim that Judaism, because it is a tribe, is intolerant.

    On the other hand, I don't agree with the other apparent claim that faith is tolerant. Unlike Judaism, Christianity and Islam are universalizing religions. In Christian and Muslim eyes, other religions are damned: in those religions there is an afterlife and salvation and members of other faiths are not saved: they go to hell. That sort of mentality leads to intolerance, and worse.

    I don't think you can root intolerance out of Christianity and Islam without radically altering those religions into something new. The intolerance is built into the very term "New Testament." I suppose that Islam is the New New Testament; you Christians simply didn't understand your Gospels. Do you accept that? Well, that's how a Jew feels when he hears the words New Testament. If Christianity and Islam were ever freed of their intolerance toward other religions, I doubt you could even call the result Christianity and Islam anymore.
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 21, 2009, 02:43:18 PM
    Quote from: "Hyde Guest"
    If you are saying that the difference between faith and tribalism is the difference between tolerance and intolerance, I disagree. If you're tracing tribalism to ancient Judaism, I disagree with that too.

    To start with the second claim: Israel was a chosen nation, not a universalizing faith. The ancient Jews didn't ever try to conquer and convert the nations. That's not part of Judaism. So there's never been intolerance of other religions on the part of Jews. According to Judaism, the nations have always been eligible for divine favor. In fact, living by the covenant only made it harder for Jews than for the nations to remain in divine favor. So I don't agree with the apparent claim that Judaism, because it is a tribe, is intolerant.

    On the other hand, I don't agree with the other apparent claim that faith is tolerant. Unlike Judaism, Christianity and Islam are universalizing religions. In Christian and Muslim eyes, other religions are damned: in those religions there is an afterlife and salvation and members of other faiths are not saved: they go to hell. That sort of mentality leads to intolerance, and worse.

    I don't think you can root intolerance out of Christianity and Islam without radically altering those religions into something new. The intolerance is built into the very term "New Testament." I suppose that Islam is the New New Testament; you Christians simply didn't understand your Gospels. Do you accept that? Well, that's how a Jew feels when he hears the words New Testament. If Christianity and Islam were ever freed of their intolerance toward other religions, I doubt you could even call the result Christianity and Islam anymore.
    >  If you're tracing tribalism to ancient Judaism

    It is tribal, the Pentateuch is the story of tribes. It is based on the us vs them dialectic (and after all isn't that what the fighting is all about) .   Tribalism is not by it's own nature intolerant.  The Quakers for example are a tribe, but tolerant.  My assertion is that once you have established Red Sox vs Yankees for example you have the potential for intolerance.  It is my belief that a faith that brings you to enlightenment, helps you see you in the other and vice versa.  So notions like the fundamentalist assertion that you must accept Christ and spread the word of Christ are gross distortions and only aid in the continuation of the gash on the body of humanity that Christ seeks to heal.  It is in fact anti Christian.

     >I don't think you can root intolerance out of Christianity

    Well I would stipulate to that if you are defining Christianity as the historic organizations that killed folk for thing like being Jews.  Christianity as a true understanding of the teachings of Christ is not intolerant any more then Judaism is intolerant.  Christ was a Jew.  When he said "no one get to the father except though me"  what he was saying was he was a physical manifestation of the presence of the father.  You can no more get to the Father with out going through Christ then you can go to temple with out walking between the pillars that hold the door.  When you begin to look at the saying of Christ especially from an unadulterated source, like the Gospel of Thomas, in that light, they really starts to make sense.  At least it did for me. YMMV

    >Islam
    I don't know shit about Islam so I can't comment.  

    go in Peace my son
    Fr Tim
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 21, 2009, 03:29:09 PM
    Certainly Judaism is tribal in the sense of being composed of tribes. And I suppose there's an inevitable us/them distinction if for no reason other than that monotheism distinguished the Jews from all the other contemporary religions which were polytheistic. So the potential for intolerance was there, but Judaism as I said does not see itself as superior to other religions. The "chosen people" refers not to some sort of superiority complex but rather to the covenant with God whereby God "chose" the Jews of all peoples to occupy the land of Israel and guaranteed them that land in exchange for their continuing obedience according to the Torah. That's what the fighting is about – not intolerance of other religions.

    Learning to see yourself in the other and the other in you is good ethics and is a vital component of Judaism and Christianity. Hillel wrote: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow; that is the whole law (Torah): all the rest is interpretation." Christ said: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." However, that ethic is a necessary but not sufficient condition for Christianity.  Chrisitanity has a salvationist framework. In other words, if I don't accept Christ as the messiah, I will not be saved. That's intolerant.
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 21, 2009, 04:38:03 PM
    Quote from: "Hyde Guest"
    Certainly Judaism is tribal in the sense of being composed of tribes. And I suppose there's an inevitable us/them distinction if for no reason other than that monotheism distinguished the Jews from all the other contemporary religions which were polytheistic. So the potential for intolerance was there, but Judaism as I said does not see itself as superior to other religions. The "chosen people" refers not to some sort of superiority complex but rather to the covenant with God whereby God "chose" the Jews of all peoples to occupy the land of Israel and guaranteed them that land in exchange for their continuing obedience according to the Torah. That's what the fighting is about – not intolerance of other religions.

    Learning to see yourself in the other and the other in you is good ethics and is a vital component of Judaism and Christianity. Hillel wrote: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow; that is the whole law (Torah): all the rest is interpretation." Christ said: "Do unto others as you would have others do unto you." However, that ethic is a necessary but not sufficient condition for Christianity.  Chrisitanity has a salvationist framework. In other words, if I don't accept Christ as the messiah, I will not be saved. That's intolerant.

    > In other words, if I don't accept Christ as the messiah, I will not be saved. That's intolerant.

    Christ at the son of god messiah is a product of the council of Nicea http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicean_creed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicean_creed).  There are a number of other valid views of Christ.  As I eluded to before the phase from John " no one can get to ...."  is read by the fundamentalist as accept Jesus or burn in Hell.  That is not the view of all Christians.  As I said before it is as simple as " do you want to go through the door?  you have to pass by the door jams."  Just what that door is, I can't and won't say.  I have no view of what happens to you if you don't do it.  I do not believe that there is only one way to pass though.  I do not believe you need to accept Christ to do it.
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 22, 2009, 02:24:47 AM
    You suggest that we separate between ethical teachings and the more intolerant aspects of religion, and I respect that. If more people took your view, people of different faiths might start to converge. Take the teachings of Hillel and Christ mentioned above. Hillel says that we must not do bad deeds and Christ says that we must do good deeds. The two ethics are similar: the Christian command “be kind to your neighbor” could be translated to the Jewish commands “don’t walk your dog on your neighbor’s lawn,” “don’t blast the stereo after 11 pm,” etc. The Christian ethic perhaps allows for positive acts of kindness, such as charity and self-sacrifice, in a way that the Jewish ethic doesn’t, while the Jewish ethic has greater specificity and clarity. Each of the two codes of behavior is incomplete by itself and a person could benefit by adhering to both.
       
    I would add, however, that your belief that Christ is not the messiah, or that this belief is a later amendment to Christianity, is your private faith and not representative of your religion. Messianism was introduced by the Hebrew prophets several centuries before Christ. Isaiah, Ezekiel, and others foretold of an anointed one of the Davidic line who would bring about a resurrection of the dead and usher in an age of everlasting peace and prosperity called “the world to come.” This promise of a golden future was a nice way to keep Jews from despairing and abandoning their faith as one foreign power after another conquered Jerusalem and defiled the Temple. Then Christ came along and proclaimed himself the messiah. The Jews rejected his claim. For one thing, Jews don’t believe in an afterlife – this goes back to ancient Judaism’s abhorrence of the Egyptian and Canaanite cults of the dead; in contrast, Jahweh had no relationship with the dead – and Christ was saying that he first had to die in order to return as the messiah. Reread Christ’s sermons, Father Tim! Don’t make me quote all the passages that read “I will come like a bolt of lightning from east to west,” and “I say to you sinners, it would be better if you had never been born.” Already twenty years after the crucifixion Paul was busy contriving Christ’s genealogy to David and preaching that the world would end in his own lifetime, a claim reiterated by all the church fathers till, around the fourth century, Christians became skeptical that the Second Coming was imminent and postponed the event indefinitely. The Nicene Creed of 325 which you cited doesn’t even mention the messiah, but the Constantinopolitan Creed of 381 “looks for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come,” ideas which, believe me, weren’t invented there. It is unimaginable how differently history would have played out if Christ had settled for being a great teacher instead of the messiah.
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on May 22, 2009, 07:22:42 PM
    >that your belief that Christ is not the messiah

      I don't believe that he was not  or that he is, it is just not essential to my faith.   There are a number of things in the New testament that are of dubious origins, some things that only make sense when view in another context.  "The Kingdom of God is at Hand"  does that mean the end is near?  That was the conclusion that the Paulites come to.  What he was saying is "He I am. I am the Kingdom of God"  I think there is more Paul then there is Jesus in the Bible.  If you think of Christ as a manifestation of God and recall the reason the Jews don't saw the name of God then it is really hard to justify linear thought about Jesus.
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on August 25, 2009, 06:38:58 PM
    Quote from: "guesttttttt"
    My former step-daughter went to Hyde and the most dangerous thing I found about Hyde  was how easily she got away with manipulating and dishonesty and in spite of being called out on it, she continued.  She accused her father of physical abuse and her mother called her out on it as an absolute lie, I called her out on it, her dad was devastated over the accusation, and nobody at the "session" seemed to be worried that she just lied, was caught dead to rights, and moved on as if nothing had happened.

    Now, several years after graduation, her life skills learned at Hyde have allowed her to flunk out of community college after 3 semesters (and 6 earned credits), had her hooked up with addict after addict, fired from many jobs due to attendance issues (how can you work and drug at the same time), several pregnancy scares, and a general lack of morals. What that kid needed (and still needs) was consistant steady parents (not one self absorbed mother and alcoholic absentee father) and counseling to help with her self esteem.


    Did Hyde work for her - no. Why? Because Hyde is just a place for parents to dump the kids they cant handle (She has a choice - Foster care or Hyde) and buy them a very expensive high school diploma. Or it is for parents who buy into the hype and beleive it is a life altering place for their child.  Did Hyde let her down?  No more than her parents did.  

    Now as far as the cult like atmosphere.  Oh yes, it existed when we were there. Parents who express disaticfaction are treated poorly and forget about the cost and the fact that they also strong arm you for an additional "donation".  Smart kids can play the system and get by and the smart parents (who didnt want Junior living back home) play the system as well.  

    And it is absolutely true that if your child runs away Hyde does tell you not to let them back home.  The Gaulds are very full of themselves and Ken and Laura are just as bad. Hardly knew the McCrans (not sure of the spelling but Duncan and his wife) because I personally dropped out of the Hyde parent program then because of what I saw as its absolute failure to do any good.
    They are the opposite of who they pretend to be. The truth and harmony principle always made me laugh.
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Anonymous on November 24, 2009, 04:37:00 PM
    H Y D E =

    H itler
    Y outh,
    D edicated
    E nforcers[/quote]



    H-HELL
    Y-YOU
    D-DIDN'T
    E-EXPECT
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: edconsultconnecticut on September 12, 2011, 03:12:13 PM
    I have worked with students and families from Hyde for the past 15 years and this is simply not my experience.  Imagine that we have Student A) and Student B).  After Hyde, Student A) goes on to college, graduates, and leads a positive, productive and honest life.  Student B) drops out of college, begins to abuse drugs and is like a “tornado roaring through the lives of others.”  Does this mean that Student A) succeeded and Student B) failed?  No, it means that Hyde was able to reach Student A) and was not able to reach Student B).  Like any other school in America, whether public or private, you will have some students and families that had an incredible experience and some that had a very negative experience.  All this is indicative of is that it was not the “right” school for their family.  I often tell clients that if they are looking for the “perfect” school for their son or daughter, they will need to build it themselves.  No matter how aligned a schools values and ethics are to your own, most parents will undoubtedly disagree with some facet of their child’s education and or the school’s curriculum.  Far too often, and I am guilty myself, as a father of three, we as parents want to “pass the buck” when it comes to our child’s struggles and failures.  However, we are more than happy to take and point credit for their successes.  Hyde was founded on two basic premises, “Every individual is gifted with a unique potential that defines a destiny” and “Parents are the primary teachers of character, which makes the home the primary classroom.”  In my experience it is the latter that parents struggle with, especially when their child fails to live up to the standards and expectations set forth.  Hyde is far from traditional, but many of the students that I have referred there over the last 15 years have gone onto to do extraordinary things.  A clear distinction needs to be made; is this the wrong school for my child or is this the wrong school for me?
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: Ursus on September 12, 2011, 09:27:26 PM
    Quote from: "edconsultconnecticut"
    I have worked with students and families from Hyde for the past 15 years and this is simply not my experience.
    Well, thank you kindly for your input. Is Hyde School your only client?

    Quote from: "edconsultconnecticut"
    Imagine that we have Student A) and Student B).  After Hyde, Student A) goes on to college, graduates, and leads a positive, productive and honest life.  Student B) drops out of college, begins to abuse drugs and is like a "tornado roaring through the lives of others."  Does this mean that Student A) succeeded and Student B) failed?  No, it means that Hyde was able to reach Student A) and was not able to reach Student B).
    It could also mean that Student B found Hyde to be a very damaging experience. Not everyone takes well to being subjected to a thought reform milieu overrun with punitive dogma.

    It could also be that Student A had several siblings (potential attendees), or parents that contributed heavily to the school's coffers or recruitment efforts. Funny how those kids always seem to do better at Hyde.

    I'm sorry, but I find your explanation simplistic and disingenuous.

    Quote from: "edconsultconnecticut"
    Like any other school in America, whether public or private, you will have some students and families that had an incredible experience and some that had a very negative experience.  All this is indicative of is that it was not the "right" school for their family.  I often tell clients that if they are looking for the "perfect" school for their son or daughter, they will need to build it themselves.  No matter how aligned a schools values and ethics are to your own, most parents will undoubtedly disagree with some facet of their child's education and or the school's curriculum.
    Yep, but those disagreements usually focus on small details, or a change in schools would be effected in short order. Most parents, believe it or not, are pretty happy to put up with a lot of those minor disagreements so long as their kid appears to be progressing and is in a safe environment. I'm not so sure that Hyde is a "safe" place, from both a physical as well as psychological standpoint.

    Quote from: "edconsultconnecticut"
    Far too often, and I am guilty myself, as a father of three, we as parents want to "pass the buck" when it comes to our child's struggles and failures.  However, we are more than happy to take and point credit for their successes.
    I'm not sure I follow you here. When people compliment me on my kids, I usually say it's all on them and their own efforts and unique abilities, not mine.

    In fact, your observation sounds rather similar to the above apologist rationale for why some kids don't do well at Hyde. If a student does well after their stint at Hyde, is 'cuz HYDE was able to "reach them." Hyde takes credit for this! If not, it's 'cuz Hyde just wasn't able to reach them, or the student wasn't up to "internalizing the process." The unspoken implication here is that this must be the student's fault or lack of ability. Hyde acknowledges no potential blame in this.

    Quote from: "edconsultconnecticut"
    Hyde was founded on two basic premises, "Every individual is gifted with a unique potential that defines a destiny" and "Parents are the primary teachers of character, which makes the home the primary classroom."  In my experience it is the latter that parents struggle with, especially when their child fails to live up to the standards and expectations set forth.
    Interesting that you claim to know so much about Hyde, since neither of those two phrases were ever used during at least the first decade of Hyde's existence.

    In fact, Joe Gauld was usually telling parents that *HYDE* knew better than they as to what was best for their kids (see "Isn't Hyde Ever Wrong? (http://http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=17336&p=251246#p251246)" from 2002). That latter phrase re. "parents are the primary teachers of character" seems to have really taken off as a good marketing tool when Hyde began to branch out with its charter school efforts. What better way to win over the hearts and minds of a (usually desperate) school district?

    As to the first phrase you note above, the term "unique potential" was certainly used early on, to ad nauseum degree even, but that came straight out of the Human Potential Movement. That's wasn't Joe's concoction. The rest of the phrase, including especially the "destiny" part, didn't get added on 'till later.

    Since you infer so much experience with Hyde, "edconsultconnecticut," perhaps you could explain the phrase: "Every individual is gifted with a unique potential that defines a destiny." While suitably florid, and loaded with emotive impact, it seems kinda vague, when you come right down to it and actually try to think it through. One could even take it to mean something akin to "what you are is what you'll be." Which is a bit... fatalistic, dontcha think? It would almost appear to remove all hope for change, when one takes it literally and at face value (which, I admit, IS how I'm prone to take things, be that as it may).

    Quote from: "edconsultconnecticut"
    Hyde is far from traditional, but many of the students that I have referred there over the last 15 years have gone onto to do extraordinary things.  A clear distinction needs to be made; is this the wrong school for my child or is this the wrong school for me?
    Why don't you tell us how *YOU* would describe Hyde as being the right school for someone, "edconsultconnecticut?" That does appear to be the opening you're fishing for, eh?  :D
    Title: Re: Warning about Hyde School from an educational consultant
    Post by: katfacehead89 on August 04, 2021, 02:28:59 PM
    Sounds about right.