Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: VVSabuse on May 13, 2010, 12:39:59 PM
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Valley View School abuses kids.
Their website is false marketing.
Philip G. Spiva Ph.D. is a child molester (Director)
http://http://www.valleyviewschool.org/site/
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I know that they play Hyde School in basketball:
(http://http://www.valleyviewschool.org/site/sites/default/files/images/extra/image074.jpg)
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They also play the game-"obey here or you will go to Elan"
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Be aware that psy will not release your ip address unless forced to do so by court order. Don't let anyone try to tell you otherwise.
Another thing... google torpark and consider using it.
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Valley View School is a reputable institution of learning with a very fine and professional educational and administrative staff. I assume that the libelous comments made, specifically regarding Dr. Spiva, may have come from a disgruntled former student who was beyond the scope of Valley View's intervention. Our decision to send our son to Valley View was both the most difficult and the most rewarding decision we've ever made. I'd be happy to speak with anyone interested in learning more about our personal journey and experience at Valley View. Feel free to contact me at [email protected]
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That's crazy. You are confusing Valley View with the Catholic Church. Our son went to Valley View for two years and just graduated from college with a 3.0 average. Valley View had prepared him with their program. Phil Spiva is a fine man and Valley View is a fine place and those kinds of scurrilous charges on that earlier post should not be allowed to float around. It really is pathetic for someone to make such charges.
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This post is nothing more then an immature attempt to defame a talented and proven doctor of psychology. Not every young man leaves Valley View School with the maturity to resist the immature impulses, as this anonymous post demonstrates.
I am a graduate of Valley View School, and I have known Doctor Spiva since the early 1990's. While I would never suggest that each day as a VVS was a constant joy, it certainly is an environment that allowed me to grow into maturity. Sadly, this post acts as testament that not every young man will glean the full benefit of the VVS experience.
Personally, in the years immediately following leaving VVS, I didn't fully recognize how well the program worked. It took a long time for me to see the deep rooted habits and improved decision making process and the lasting positive effects of both. The full benefit of VVS is often unrecognized until one is well into their college years, and I suspect whoever left this post is still a young, immature, disgruntled former student. Some day, when he grows up, he will see the error in his ways.
If you have any questions or concerns regarding the creditably of Doctor Spiva, the of quality of the staff, or any other questions about the VVS experience I would be happy to discuss them with you.
Jonathan Sloan, Esq.
[email protected]
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Oh wow, three 1-post accounts pop out of the woodwork almost immediately. Looks like someone at the program slammed the panic button. Reminds me of UO. "All Come!"
You three'd be slightly more believable if it didn't have the Seals of Guaranteed Child Abuse on it:
(http://http://www.valleyviewschool.org/site/sites/default/files/images/links/natsap.png)
(http://http://www.valleyviewschool.org/site/sites/default/files/images/links/woodbury.png)
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The person who posted such an unfounded attack on Dr. Spiva should be ashamed. Valley View, under Dr. Spiva's leadership and guidance has helped countless young men find their way in a world that seemed totally against them. Is the program tough? Yes. Does it ask a lot of the boys?Yes. Does it teach them tolerance, resposibility, respect for themselves and others? Yes And how to cope in the world? Yes.
I personally know several young men who probably would not be in this world today if not for their experience at VVS and who are doing very well in their lives. To insult the program and especially Dr. Spiva with such despicable accusations can only be the actions of a malicious person who failed to learn the valuable lessons avaliable to them while at VVS. Dr. Spiva you have my total support.
A parent of a successful VVS graduate.
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Wow, you people are tripping off every single bullshit alarm in the book. The only thing this is doing is making me suspicious as hell. Had you all not said anything the thread would have dropped off the front page and I wouldn't have thought twice about it.
But now... NO way.. yall got me intrigued. Time to start digging through Valley View's trash.
VVAbuse, contact me via PM, I'd like to talk to you in private.
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:shamrock: :shamrock:
What a wonderful thread, I would think that we would all be pleased that abuse charges leveled against someone were more then likely unfounded but NOOOOOOOO, that would not be in our best interests. We need abuse it drives the very engine the guides the mother ship. Happy hunting or tormenting which ever comes first.
Danny
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Still yearning for those days back in Elan when you were the man in control eh?
(http://http://www.whiterabbitcult.com/mccain-looking-at-boobs.gif)
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Still yearning for those days back in Elan when you were the man in control eh?
(http://http://www.whiterabbitcult.com/mccain-looking-at-boobs.gif)
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Ya know your family is right you are a emotional retard, who lost his way. I feel for ya dude.
Happy delusional living in the far east.
Danny
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Yep, Danny's living his program days out on the forums. Still missing the days where you and Ol' Joe Ricci were laying bets on poor schmucks in the ring? Look pip squeak, I know all of your lame ass tricks. I've done them all myself, I've seen them a hundred times.
You've got nothing new, nothing innovative, and more importantly nothing useful to add. Hell I bet you wake up with a huge hard on over the power you used to have over the lives of those poor saps in Elan. I bet you fantsize about the hurt you've done to them. I know you feel guilty and come up on here like we are your personal AA group. All the crosstalk must drive you right to the edge of your sanity.
Gotta be in control Bennison, gotta be that Assistant Director still, gotta keep on inflicting the hurt.
You aren't nothing new.. Before you there was me. Big difference though, I didn't wake up fantasizing about hurting people, I'm just an asshole naturally. You on the other hand are byproduct of a pathetic machine.
Fornits will prevail over the likes of you, Fornits always has. You've got nothing new and will one day only be remembered as an object of mockery and ridicule.
Me.. I'll be remembered as that asshole who split CALO wide open, that asshole who protested Benchmark, That son of a bitch who did this and that horrible thing. Big difference again.. I'll at least be remembered for being useful. You on the other hand will be remembered for being sad pathetic old wino.
have fun waking up and wanking to the fantasy of which poor sucker is going into the ring next you sick old bastard.
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Actually, my paranoia's kicking in extra hard today and I suspect that the OP and all the out-of-the-ass defenders are in fact the same person and this is either an elaborate troll or somebody trying to pull something stupid. Hey OP, why don't you come back here and tell the rest of us *exactly* what happens at VVS?
Edit: Huh, guess not. Still, it's rare for one guy to post something that vague and get instantly piled on by one-post wonders.
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Danny Bennison was "Daddy" like Joe Ricci to detainees at ELAN. They were both creepy sadistic monsters who arranged fights in the ring. Danny refuses to acknowledge he affected innocent victim's lives. Danny it is ultimately your choice to deal with the guilt and make amends with victims you harmed. Is that something you're willing to do? If not, you're a coward.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30340 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=30340)
- Interesting POV from Danny about ELAN!
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Actually, my paranoia's kicking in extra hard today and I suspect that the OP and all the out-of-the-ass defenders are in fact the same person and this is either an elaborate troll or somebody trying to pull something stupid. Hey OP, why don't you come back here and tell the rest of us *exactly* what happens at VVS?
I was contacted in PM and I have pretty strong reason to believe the OP is legit. I'm hoping to speak with the OP directly in order to get more substantive details.
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This place has been around since 1970. My guess is that Phil Spiva was exposed to the same cultural TC euphoria that was present when Michael DeSisto and Mel Wasserman were starting their respective programs. In fact, during the time of Tom Croke's Visit Report (below) for Struggling Teens in 1992, Valley View School was described as a "therapeutic community with the feel of a boarding school"...
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Schools, Programs, & Visit Reports - Aug, 1992 Issue (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1992/8/visit05.html)
Valley View School
Dr. Phil Spiva, Director
North Brookfield, MA
(508) 867-6505
Tom Croke Visit - June 3, 1992
(412) 532-0490
I visited Valley View on a warm Spring Day, as the students were preparing for graduation. My first impression was of a neat, well-kept campus in a pastoral setting. It was hard to imagine such a peaceful scene so close to the hustle and bustle of Boston.
The peaceful sense came to a screeching halt when I had the opportunity to mingle among the students, a well-nurtured and well-managed group of boys whose energy level was beyond anything I had ever experienced previously in a group of its size. Valley View lives up to the description offered by its director as "therapeutic community with the feel of a boarding school".
Valley View is a staff-dominated school with a student body characterized primarily as boys who have at one time been diagnosed as having attention deficit disorder, whether or not the diagnosis was accurate. Director Phil Spiva also characterized it as primarily boys who are oppositional, but not alienated, boys who do not like having parents tell them what to do, but are receptive to adult leadership under optimum conditions.
The age range is from ten or eleven to seventeen, although the plan not to admit new students above 15 in the foreseeable future (if I had an otherwise appropriate 16 or 17 year old and plead for an exception). The younger boys seem not so oppositional, but VERY hyperactive. The older ones seem mildly oppositional, but struggling to be understood and accepted for who they are (who isn’t?), and having a greater than average struggle with that, due to having been rejected so many times due to perceived ADHD and similar issues that the world does not love them, than to express hostility, anger, or rejection to the world around them.
Academically, my opportunity to observe was limited, but there was plenty of evidence of a solid highly individualized academic program, appropriate to the needs of these students. That optimistic view is supported by having met some of their former students, when visiting more conventional boarding schools, and seeing that Valley View had well prepared them, academically and otherwise. Valley View provides both the structure in which a hyperactive or undisciplined young man can learn, and the guidance to gain the skills to enable learning later on. With the younger boys, appropriate levels of nurture were in place.
The Therapeutic program, operated by well qualified and credentialed professionals in psychology, education, and social work, is effective, yet subtle. To just describe the point system and levels system makes it simply sound like many other programs. What makes Valley View unique is the fact that these therapeutic tools define the structure and the boundaries of the program in a manner which the boys accept early on, so they can devote their best energy to other things. The system is used to trigger communication, but not to define ultimate success or failure in the school. The boys understand that they set their own level by their own behavior, and feel empowered by the system, rather than stifled by it. While I did encounter some negativity and complaining among the boys, not once did I hear a complaint about the levels system.
With the “system” in the background, the boys set about the business of learning and growing, always with someone to listen and talk and help them achieve success academically and socially. I found self-consciousness about personal growth issues less here than at most structured boarding schools, and a general acceptance and contentment with the surroundings. There was a similarity to conventional boarding schools with respect to issues like academic achievement, college admission, and what to do about a test tomorrow or an activity next week.
Student life is largely centered on activities with other Valley View students. Personal choice in going off campus is tied into the level system, as are many off campus group activities. There is a sense of competitiveness in athletics similar to conventional boarding schools, although size (42) restricts the range of sports offerings. Valley View offers its student elective foreign and domestic group travel opportunities.
I like Valley view. In considering a referral, I would assess a latency age boy very differently than an adolescent. I would consider referring a latency age boy if they were hyperactive or had other behaviors which seemed to be beyond his control, but who was also actively seeking approval and positive relationships with adults. A fairly bright early adolescent boy who is depressed, who is having trouble learning how to handle his hormones, who has not managed to live constructively with ADHD, who is manipulative, or who is testing parents consistently around normal adolescent issues, but is not severely oppositional, hostile, combative, conduct disordered, nor though disordered, not suicidal, would be a candidate for Valley View.
Copyright © 1992, Woodbury Reports, Inc. (This article may be reproduced without prior approval if the copyright notice and proper publication and author attribution accompanies the copy.)
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I too am a former student of VVS. Troubled when I got there, graduated with honors went to college, then a masters degree working as a therapist and enjoying life without trouble or emotional turmoil. This is thanks to VVS. I am in communication with many staff and students of the VVS community and yes, was alerted to this denigrating post via my friends (staff, parents and students alike) whom all have positive VVS experiences to reflect on. We are here to offer testimonial. I have known Phil for the entirety of my adult life. A life that is largely due to the developmental nurturing that came from the therapeutic program culture of Valley View. There is absolutely no abuse going on there. Phil is a devotee of the field and a leader and innovator with proven results as one of the finest therapeutic residential boarding school in the United States. Do your research. Unfortunately a small few of the clientèle do not align with the model due to the realities associated with pervasive mental disorders. However, VVS has a reputation of producing major lasting changes in the students they serve. In fact, the large majority of student flourish as a result of the model. There have NEVER been any charges related to abuse of any kind at VVS, once again...do your research.
Many of the other posts from VVS community members include their names and contact info. Mine is below. If you truly want to resolve your anger, why not get out from the anonymity you are hiding behind and state your name and contact info. Or are afraid you claims would disintegrate by doing so.
Anyone may feel free to contact me if they want to know more about my experience at Valley View.
My name is Brendan [email protected]
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And that makes FIVE trained monkeys regurgitating the standard bullshit!
Nothing of substance has been said yet on this whole thread. The only thing that can be said for the OP is that he has some idea where he is, whereas the trained monkeys apparently haven't a clue. Have you *read* the threads on this board before you posted meaningless shit like:
Phil is a devotee of the field and a leader and innovator with proven results as one of the finest therapeutic residential boarding school in the United States.
Do you have any idea how the fuck you sound? Do you actually talk like this? If so, we can conclude that the program really has done something foul to your mind.
Hell, I don't even claim to know anything about VVS beyond the obvious Seals of Guaranteed Child Abuse and its apparent similarities to other confirmed hellholes like Elan. I haven't even heard of this place until this guy posted this stuff. But when five guys immediately show up with the standard marketing duckspeak, as their own words, on command the moment somebody rings Pavlov's bell? Mmm-MMM! You can just smell that oven-roasted culty goodness.
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My experience reading here over the years indicates that the person who wrote the defamatory remark against Doctor Spiva didn’t take advantage of their time at VV and realized that almost everyone did well after graduation, except themselves, and he/she has flushed their own life down the toilet. People, like the original poster, who have spent their life blaming others for their shortcomings don’t handle, very well, the harsh reality that everyone has moved on except them and in response lashes out and makes comments like they did in the OP. They are easy to spot
Why respond now? Well maybe they just left a myspace group or facebook group planning a reunion and realized they are the only one who is angry and the rest are like the other posters who posted comments about Valley View.
Any first time reader knows that if there were a real legal issue they wouldn’t post it here on fornits before going to the police….. IMO You don’t need a GED to figure this one out.
...
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...VVS has a reputation of producing major lasting changes in the students they serve. In fact, the large majority of student flourish as a result of the model.
Any evidence to support this claim? Perhaps a clinical study? You'll have to supply some sort of quantitative data from a clinical study to validate your opinion.
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My experience reading here over the years indicates that the person who wrote the defamatory remark against Doctor Spiva didn’t take advantage of their time at VV and realized that almost everyone did well after graduation, except themselves, and he/she has flushed their own life down the toilet. People, like the original poster, who have spent their life blaming others for their shortcomings don’t handle, very well, the harsh reality that everyone has moved on except them and in response lashes out and makes comments like they did in the OP. They are easy to spot
Why respond now? Well maybe they just left a myspace group or facebook group planning a reunion and realized they are the only one who is angry and the rest are like the other posters who posted comments about Valley View.
Any first time reader knows that if there were a real legal issue they wouldn’t post it here on fornits before going to the police….. IMO You don’t need a GED to figure this one out.
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The OP is Mathew Eliscu and your first paragraph pretty much sums up my little brother.
He would be Eliscu3 if he cared about child abuse or anything other than where to get his next fix or who he can con today.
Is Phil Spiva a child Molester? I have no idea.
Time to call Mr. Diamond and get the truth. :on phone:
NUTSACK is a dead giveaway and the responce to this one random thread is all telling.
Valley View caters to the very wealthy and they want to keep it that way!
So for all of you "marketing damage control" idiots you can find me easy enough.
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Yep, Danny's living his program days out on the forums. Still missing the days where you and Ol' Joe Ricci were laying bets on poor schmucks in the ring? Look pip squeak, I know all of your lame ass tricks. I've done them all myself, I've seen them a hundred times.
You've got nothing new, nothing innovative, and more importantly nothing useful to add. Hell I bet you wake up with a huge hard on over the power you used to have over the lives of those poor saps in Elan. I bet you fantsize about the hurt you've done to them. I know you feel guilty and come up on here like we are your personal AA group. All the crosstalk must drive you right to the edge of your sanity.
Gotta be in control Bennison, gotta be that Assistant Director still, gotta keep on inflicting the hurt.
You aren't nothing new.. Before you there was me. Big difference though, I didn't wake up fantasizing about hurting people, I'm just an asshole naturally. You on the other hand are byproduct of a pathetic machine.
Fornits will prevail over the likes of you, Fornits always has. You've got nothing new and will one day only be remembered as an object of mockery and ridicule.
Me.. I'll be remembered as that asshole who split CALO wide open, that asshole who protested Benchmark, That son of a bitch who did this and that horrible thing. Big difference again.. I'll at least be remembered for being useful. You on the other hand will be remembered for being sad pathetic old wino.
have fun waking up and wanking to the fantasy of which poor sucker is going into the ring next you sick old bastard.
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Like I said your family was right.
Danny
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The interesting thing I did a background check on Danny Bennison last night.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Like I said your family was right.
Danny
Danny who did you talk to in Che's family?
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Oh you are awake ok, great. Duh.....Yo Momma.
Danny
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Like I said your family was right.
Danny
Danny who did you talk to in Che's family?
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Oh you are awake ok, great. Duh.....who gives a shit.
Danny
Answer the question Danny, I'll have none of your attempts to shift the focus!
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Like I said your family was right.
Danny
Danny who did you talk to in Che's family?
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Oh you are awake ok, great. Duh.....who gives a shit.
Danny
Answer the question Danny, I'll have none of your attempts to shift the focus!
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Now your awake too.....jee that would be your daddy, too.
Danny
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Answer the question Danny, your sarcasm will only get you thrown into the ring. Compliance is not an option.
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HI MIke! I knew your sorry Israeli ass couldn't stay away!
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Assistant Director Daniel Bennison will not be talking about the girl he dragged around with his van or drilling holes in the paddle to cause more injury.
Bennison-Bot anyone?
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I didn't know Danny dragged a girl around with his van. Danny you are a true piece of work you scum sucking piece of white trash. I wonder if Danny dragged his own kids around the trailer park with his van?
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I didn't know Danny dragged a girl around with his van. Danny you are a true piece of work you scum sucking piece of white trash. I wonder if Danny dragged his own kids around the trailer park with his van?
I am sure he would love to play mindgames with you forever....
Isn't it nice how he derailed this thread?
He has never said he was sorry for torturing any kids.
To become an Assistant Director you had to be pretty damn abusive.
Watch him attack me now.................................... :waaaa:
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I wish I had permission to post some of the private messages I've gotten about Danny. I'd be happy to redact the names. It seems Felice isn't the only one in the Elan Alumni community who is less than impressed with Mr. Bennison.
Come on out ol' Bennison, tell us which member of my family you talked with.
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Whospam and trainedmonkeyspam can't compare to the Elanspam.
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I didn't know Danny dragged a girl around with his van.
Yeah, I never got an answer about that either and it is an extremely valid question. You're always demanding to know the history and background of the people you're arguing with. So.......is it true Danny? Please explain the circumstances that led to this. I'm sure Who will be impressed with your reasoning and justification. After all, I'm sure she somehow brought it upon herself, right? Surely it was all in an effort to 'help' the poor girl, right? It was to keep her from hurting herself, right? Some sort of fantastic new "alternative" therapy, right?
Man up. It's a valid question.
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I guess I have problems with my English comprehension, but can someone please explain what you mean with: Danny dragged a girl around with his van ?!?
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I guess I have problems with my English comprehension, but can someone please explain what you mean with: Danny dragged a girl around with his van ?!?
It means he tied one end of a rope to a van, tied the other end to the girl, and drove the van.
I'm not sure if this one's true or not, but judging from what we know of Danny, it's not entirely unlikely.
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What everyone here has failed to mention is that the child is given a helmet to wear prior to this. This pretty much happens to all kids at Therapeutic Boarding schools. Its an acceptable hazing rite within TTI circles. Once a kid is dragged around the parking lot for a few hours behind a pickup truck the rest of their stay there is quite benign in comparison to that experience so they feel relatively happy and safe being indoors and they quickly apply themselves to the program. The pickup truck is started each evening after dinner as a deterrent for those kids thinking about running.
Many of the kids don’t talk about it because it would ruin the experience of the newcomers if they knew what to expect.
...
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I guess I have problems with my English comprehension, but can someone please explain what you mean with: Danny dragged a girl around with his van ?!?
It means he tied one end of a rope to a van, tied the other end to the girl, and drove the van.
I'm not sure if this one's true or not, but judging from what we know of Danny, it's not entirely unlikely.
It's also not an unheard of ploy to ply when it comes to eliciting cooperation from recalcitrant youth. For real. Don't pay attention to Whooter's attempt to obfuscate, lol, it doesn't happen daily, and they don't get to wear helmets! My guess is the practice is more common in some of the stridently religious programs. Rolofff comes to mind, which, incidentally, is also located in the vicinity of Corpus Christi. Maybe it's something 'bout Texas.
The good Rev. Charles Flowers of Love Demonstrated Ministries got into trouble for pulling a stunt like this at his boot camp for the ungodly. The girl fell down while being dragged and was injured.
See also, re. the LDM incident:
- OK, here's your chance.....Fark · viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22588 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22588)
- Love Demonstrated Ministries · viewtopic.php?f=22&t=22702 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=22702)
- Lawsuit against Love Demonstrated Ministries gets refiled · viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26614 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=26614)
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What everyone here has failed to mention is that the child is given a helmet to wear prior to this. This pretty much happens to all kids at Therapeutic Boarding schools. Its an acceptable hazing rite within TTI circles. Once a kid is dragged around the parking lot for a few hours behind a pickup truck the rest of their stay there is quite benign in comparison to that experience so they feel relatively happy and safe being indoors and they quickly apply themselves to the program. The pickup truck is started each evening after dinner as a deterrent for those kids thinking about running.
Many of the kids don’t talk about it because it would ruin the experience of the newcomers if they knew what to expect.
...
:clown: :clown: :clown:
Just one of many sick and twisted "Learning Experience's" the Directors at Elan dreamed up to frighten us into compliance.
It worked for most and what still amazes me to this day is that these places like Elan and Valley View Farm/School are allowed to opperate with absolutely no real oversite. NATSAP IS A JOKE!!!!! :clown:
Once a kid is secluded in the middle of nowhere................no one can hear or see the abuse.
What I find even more revolting is that people like Danny Bennison :lala: still think it was "all for our own good" TORTURE all good!
This is exactly how it works so well...........PRAVDA!!!!
The Nazi's thought they were doing the world a favor when they TORTURED and KILLED 12 Million PEOPLE.
The rich get programmed and richer and the poor get more oppressed and poorer.
They are too busy struggeling to survive to fight for their rights.
When they do open their minds or mouths they are oppressed by many systems and this is all by design.....so PLEASE SEND YOUR KID TO VALLEY VIEW SCHOOL SO THEY CAN BE A SELF-CENTERED ELITIST FUCKWAD JUST LIKE YOU!~ :soapbox:
Hey and thanks for that "oil accident" it's not enough to care only about money and material things, you have to pollute the whole planet with your your GREED. :cheers:
Harriet Gershman and the like continue to DESTROY entire familys with thier "moral treatment".......referal service.
More productive evil-bott's are just what you get.
The proof is people like Daniel Bennison who HONESTLY ENJOY THE ONLY POWER HE EVER HAD IN HIS WHOLE LIFE AND SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THE ATTROCITYS HE COMMITED........ :notworthy: "Oh giant kool-aid grant me the power to torture rich kids for money cause the sate paid my tuition to this "school" and now i can seek vengence!" :notworthy:
In fact when I have my "Mid-Life-Crisis" I'll be back to play all kinds of mindgames just to make myself feel better.
I will interupt human rights activist and the like with my drivvel on a daily basis.....Let more kids suffer....no-problem man. :shamrock: :shamrock: 50,000 shamrocks later....... ::puke::
:notworthy:
That felt good! Time to go tell of my Elected Officials!
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Just one of many sick and twisted "Learning Experience's" the Directors at Elan dreamed up to frighten us into compliance.
It worked for most and what still amazes me to this day is that these places like Elan and Valley View Farm/School are allowed to opperate with absolutely no real oversite.
Maybe a good lead off in the Valley View Wiki would be that they drag kids around the parking lot for a few hours prior to admittance. This will raise the credibility of the site quite a bit. Parents would love it!!
Hey and thanks for that "oil accident" it's not enough to care only about money and material things, you have to pollute the whole planet with your your GREED.
Wow, your insight is amazing. I cant believe you caught on to their plan. The Trouble Teen industry caused the oil spill in the gulf, like you said, as a diversion so that the government will not have enough resources to focus on all the abuse going on in programs so they can continue to perform mind control on these kids and further their cult endeavors. This must had been funded by Romney and those others in Utah. I hope you don’t tell anyone about this. It could cause trouble for the industry.
...
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Just one of many sick and twisted "Learning Experience's" the Directors at Elan dreamed up to frighten us into compliance.
It worked for most and what still amazes me to this day is that these places like Elan and Valley View Farm/School are allowed to opperate with absolutely no real oversite.
Maybe a good lead off in the Valley View Wiki would be that they drag kids around the parking lot for a few hours prior to admittance. This will raise the credibility of the site quite a bit. Parents would love it!!
Hey and thanks for that "oil accident" it's not enough to care only about money and material things, you have to pollute the whole planet with your your GREED.
Wow, your insight is amazing. I cant believe you caught on to their plan. The Trouble Teen industry caused the oil spill in the gulf, like you said, as a diversion so that the government will not have enough resources to focus on all the abuse going on in programs so they can continue to perform mind control on these kids and further their cult endeavors. This must had been funded by Romney and those others in Utah. I hope you don’t tell anyone about this. It could cause trouble for the industry.
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You took that out of context Whootius Maximus, reading comprehention was never your strong suit.
You even earned your own damn Icon :wall:
Hey you are missing the Bill O'Reilly show on Fox right now>
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You took that out of context Whootius Maximus, reading comprehention was never your strong suit.
You even earned your own damn Icon
Hey you are missing the Bill O'Reilly show on Fox right now>
If I felt you would be rattled and stand up and speak out when others (here on fornits) took comments out of context I would apologize. But people seem to only get upset when “I” take things out of context. Why is that?
Why is it okay to say, for example: “Programs fail miserably”
But when I say: “Programs are highly successful” Everyone wants to review the study? Lol
If we all were able to speak on level ground then I would accept your rebuttal.
...
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Just one of many sick and twisted "Learning Experience's" the Directors at Elan dreamed up to frighten us into compliance.
It worked for most and what still amazes me to this day is that these places like Elan and Valley View Farm/School are allowed to opperate with absolutely no real oversite.
Maybe a good lead off in the Valley View Wiki would be that they drag kids around the parking lot for a few hours prior to admittance. This will raise the credibility of the site quite a bit. Parents would love it!!
Hey and thanks for that "oil accident" it's not enough to care only about money and material things, you have to pollute the whole planet with your your GREED.
Wow, your insight is amazing. I cant believe you caught on to their plan. The Trouble Teen industry caused the oil spill in the gulf, like you said, as a diversion so that the government will not have enough resources to focus on all the abuse going on in programs so they can continue to perform mind control on these kids and further their cult endeavors. This must had been funded by Romney and those others in Utah. I hope you don’t tell anyone about this. It could cause trouble for the industry.
...
You took that out of context Whootius Maximus, reading comprehention was never your strong suit.
You even earned your own damn Icon :wall:
Hey you are missing the Bill O'Reilly show on Fox right now>
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Felice, please you are not cut out for this type of banter get back to the sideline, before I start the truck. RRRRMMmm
RRRMMMM.
"Pile of Shit", last thing I heard on you is you may have some ghosts in your closet that have to do with violence committed upon others, in your young past life. The pontification by windbags here always surprises me especially when there checkered past smells worse then the persons there attacking.
Danny
-
Felice, please you are not cut out for this type of banter get back to the sideline, before I start the truck. RRRRMMmm
RRRMMMM.
"Pile of Shit", last thing I heard on you is you may have some ghosts in your closet that have to do with violence committed upon others, in your young past life. The pontification by windbags here always surprises me especially when there checkered past smells worse then the persons there attacking.
Danny
Page taken out of the ELAN staffer playbook by Danny Bennison. Did anyone notice Danny trying to avoid tough questions about crimes he committed against children? Derail a thread and avoid tough questions. Derail a thread and avoid tough questions. This is his MO people.
-
Felice, please you are not cut out for this type of banter get back to the sideline, before I start the truck. RRRRMMmm
RRRMMMM.
"Pile of Shit", last thing I heard on you is you may have some ghosts in your closet that have to do with violence committed upon others, in your young past life. The pontification by windbags here always surprises me especially when there checkered past smells worse then the persons there attacking.
Danny
Page taken out of the ELAN staffer playbook by Danny Bennison. Did anyone notice Danny trying to avoid tough questions about crimes he committed against children? Derail a thread and avoid tough questions. Derail a thread and avoid tough questions. This is his MO people.
This tactic can be found on page 2 of the Elan Assistant Directors ABUSERS HANDBOOK..................
Notice the skillful use of the DOUBLE-BIND peppered with empty threats and indimidation.
All we have missing here is a drag around the parking lot tied to your delivery van and a bare bottom spanking with a wooden paddle in front of 100's of my peers. (Danny drilled holes in that paddle so it would hurt more and cause permanent scars.)
-
You took that out of context Whootius Maximus, reading comprehention was never your strong suit.
You even earned your own damn Icon
Hey you are missing the Bill O'Reilly show on Fox right now>
If I felt you would be rattled and stand up and speak out when others (here on fornits) took comments out of context I would apologize. But people seem to only get upset when “I” take things out of context. Why is that?
Why is it okay to say, for example: “Programs fail miserably”
But when I say: “Programs are highly successful” Everyone wants to review the study? Lol
If we all were able to speak on level ground then I would accept your rebuttal.
...
Whooty, you are a troll. I can not speak for all programs and I do not.
You being the troll that you are seem to defend them all.
You even defend the "treatment" at JRC.............................THE WORST HELLHOLE.
Perhaps you need a little trip to GITMO to get yourself some empathy.
-
the Benkrugnadlick has posted on 4nits 541 times
posts on 4nits.
2 have slightly exposed elan yet Bennison still revels in the GLORY of being an abuser in those 2 posts and relishes his role in the elan scheme of things
posts on 4nits
all of of AA Bennisons posts are are in direct contradiction of the AA twelve steps and 12 traditions If Bennison wipes his ass like he works AA THEN he most certainly have oozing piles around the hole that the Krugly covets maybe next time Bennison is recieving the Krugly he will ask the Krugly to use a lube that has antibiotics in it
posts on 4nits
oooooo that smell can you not smell that smell the smell of death that is all around you because of you
posts on 4nits
Most of Bennison's posts are attacks on other suvivors Bennison doesn't know the Benkrugnadlick does not care which program the survivors was in he attacks he siddles up like a crab to the suvivor plays buddy suckie and THEN attacks with the viciousiness of a program trained abuser and he still tries to seeks his GLORY in all of this
posts on4 nits
Bennison is a pathological drama queen that loves gossip and hearsay he is incapable of standing on his own 2legs and being an honest human being because he likes getting on all 4s while the Krugly with his huge fuckin swollen hands double fists the vomit out of him Bennison beggs for a reach around but the Krugly says maybe next time as he thrusts his meaty mits into the place where Bennison poops.
posts on 4nits
when Bennison farts it sounds like 2 pieces of cardboard flappin in the breeze
posts on 4nits
Bennisons other posts ARE such nonsense that nobodee responds or replies to his lunacy bBnkrugnadlick it is a GIVEN that Women should not die in childbirth but Bennison can not give you a reason one reason why
posts on 4nits
Bennison is so stupid that if his brains were cotton he would not have enough to make a rag for an ANT butta bing butta bang butta up bennisons butt says the Krugly
posts on 4nits
all his other posts he tries to explore his abusive training and futher his education in being an abuser by cuddling up to the whoot on the jrc thread looking for new ways to abuse former survivors
posts on 4nits
he is a misogynist as evidenced by some of his very disrespectful posts to the various women on 4nits he will not know what that word means
posts on 4nits
Bennison shits on this forum like he is the program director of 4nits as evidenced by his many posts out of the 541 posts of his where he angrily tells former survivors of other programs what to do
posts on 4nits
he is so deluded that he does not see what he posts is his tell he is a violent sociopath with severe borderline personality traits combined with exteme reaction formation mechanisms all can be found in his 541 posts
posts on 4nits
Benkrugnadlick enjoys his position in his mind he has no compunction ability at all no conscience to speak of is throughly IN DRIVEN that he can not respect other opinions also evidenced by his 541 posts
posts on 4nits
is very angry all the time 541 posts represents this anger all because he is a true sick fuck that imprinted on the Krugly in a fashion that only birds could understand and the Krugly will not give him the release that only TCK can give the sick fuck
posts on 4nits
he plays childish games posting private messages in his mind he thinks it will explain something but it simply makes him out to be the untrusworthy shithaed that his 541 posts represent
posts on 4nits
everyone on 4nits is so humbly greatful that we are not Danny Bennison and every one agrees probably even the whoot Bennison we are so greatful we are not you
posts on 4nits
is so deluded that he has actully posted with in his 451 posts that he has helped 4nits in exposing programs hahahahahah
posts on 4nits
Danny Bennison tub girl called she wanted to know if you wanted a drink go on Danny take a big ole swig you know you want to you stupid fuckin sicko
posts on 4nits
all the survivors on 4 nits are so fuckin happy we ARE not you and that we have love in OUR lives THAN to be an abusive program supporter like your 541 posts in 3 months prove.
posts on 4nits
THEN to be stuck in in a time that you can not escape because you are not a SURVIVOR so happy we all ARE that we are not you in any way shape or form you stupid sick deluded fuck
posts on 4nits
tub girl is waiting she wants to know if you want a little sip go a haed Bennison have a little drink you know you want it
posts on 4nits
-
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Can we please get back to the topic.
Danny
-
Who did you speak with in my family motherfucker?
-
I guess I have problems with my English comprehension, but can someone please explain what you mean with: Danny dragged a girl around with his van ?!?
It means he tied one end of a rope to a van, tied the other end to the girl, and drove the van.
I'm not sure if this one's true or not, but judging from what we know of Danny, it's not entirely unlikely.
OMG?!?
Did you really do it , Danny ????
-
Who did you speak with in my family motherfucker?[/quote
:shamrock: :shamrock:
You just called me a "motherfucker". Hmmmmmmm...Aaron watch your step buddy your moving from panda's to big boys now. You talk mighty big shit for a little white flabby boy in China. Come to Georgia and call me a motherfucker, please. You have my address and phone #. That was down right rude, dude. The spoke person from your family Che, if they wanted you to know then they would tell you. Stop asking me.
I will say this worlds are very small people and information is not hard to find. So if you think running around with a avatar and a phony name will keep you hidden think again. Money, yes money makes people do lots of things. Money and hackers.
U and I, ya....I am getting close.
Danny
-
Whooty, you are a troll. I can not speak for all programs and I do not.
You being the troll that you are seem to defend them all.
You even defend the "treatment" at JRC.............................THE WORST HELLHOLE.
Perhaps you need a little trip to GITMO to get yourself some empathy.
People with an open mind and an ability to think independently really ruffles your feathers that much, Eliscu2? I mentioned several times during the discussion that I wasn’t an advocate of Shock Therapy. I was just trying to understand the facts. But it seems the facts scare you. Why is that? Why do you feel unsafe when people speak openly and examine both sides of the issue or disagree with you? Why label these people trolls or programmies because they think or act differently? Does it give you a sense of security putting someone else down? If I were a graduate of a program speaking this way you would label me brainwashed or indoctrinated. Why not accept more than one point of view and defend your views openly if you feel strongly about it. There is nothing wrong with being different and stepping beyond the group think here and being yourself. No one will punish you for it. If there are 100 people in the room we should get 100 different perspectives on the same problem. Its unnatural for everyone to feel the need to think the same way (as they do here on fornits).
...
-
Whooty, you are a troll. I can not speak for all programs and I do not.
You being the troll that you are seem to defend them all.
You even defend the "treatment" at JRC.............................THE WORST HELLHOLE.
Perhaps you need a little trip to GITMO to get yourself some empathy.
People with an open mind and an ability to think independently really ruffles your feathers that much, Eliscu2? I mentioned several times during the discussion that I wasn’t an advocate of Shock Therapy. I was just trying to understand the facts. But it seems the facts scare you. Why is that? Why do you feel unsafe when people speak openly and examine both sides of the issue or disagree with you? Why label these people trolls or programmies because they think or act differently? Does it give you a sense of security putting someone else down? If I were a graduate of a program speaking this way you would label me brainwashed or indoctrinated. Why not accept more than one point of view and defend your views openly if you feel strongly about it. There is nothing wrong with being different and stepping beyond the group think here and being yourself. No one will punish you for it. If there are 100 people in the room we should get 100 different perspectives on the same problem. Its unnatural for everyone to feel the need to think the same way (as they do here on fornits).
...
I have been brainwashed by the fornits cult.
I am powerless over my own thoughts.
I have found Jesus! (he was under my bed this whole time)
Jesus smelled really bad and the only reason I found him was because of the stench.
Jesus told me I should love everyone ESPECIALLY people like you Whooty.
Jesus said that if I did everything he said and stayed away from ::evil:: fornits ::evil:: I could go to church tomorrow morning and be part of the second comming.
I told him I was Jewish and he said that's o.k., I'm Jewish too.
I asked him how he could be G-d and just a Jewish guy at the same time.
He changed the subject on me.
He told me everything written in that book was either taken out of context or absolutely false.
I said "I can relate"
I asked him why I had to follow a book that was total bullshit and stay away from fornits.
He said he was testing me.
I asked him why.
He said he likes to play games.
Every time I tried to ask him a direct question he would distract me or cause some kind of diversion.
Jesus and I played all day long and when we were done I killed him.
I just figured it was about time I thought for myself.
My very first thought that I have had all by myself since discovering fornits!
My first real thought of my own was "Kill Jesus".
Now Jesus is dead and will not be saving anybody.
It took me hours to clean up the mess!
This is why I don't listen to my own thoughts.
-
Didnt mean to upset you that much, Eliscu2. Just asking you to keep an open mind and try to step out of the group position here. Life doesnt have to black and white. You can be religious or non-religious and still hold (or agree on) the same perspective on many discussions here. No need to label everyone, thats all I'm saying.
...
-
Didnt mean to upset you that much, Eliscu2. Just asking you to keep an open mind and try to step out of the group position here. Life doesnt have to black and white. You can be religious or non-religious and still hold (or agree on) the same perspective on many discussions here. No need to label everyone, thats all I'm saying.
...
Hey Whooty I think I did agree with you once.
Right here on this very thread.
.....way back when we were talking about Valley View School abuse.
You described my brother Mathew pretty well and I agreed.
I am not upset, killing Jesus made me really happy.
Cleaning his brains off the wall was a real bummer though.
It's hard to have an open mind about something like child abuse.
I do appreciate your attempts to teach me....really I do!
"Programs are like swimming, no child wants to jump in the first time."
I really liked the "Cancer is not pretty but we treat it and the child suffers during treatment, but in the end they are cured."
I think your really creative.....got a picture of yourself?....maybe we could hook up.
I'll show you how I played with Jesus.
-
Hey Whooty I think I did agree with you once.
Right here on this very thread.
.....way back when we were talking about Valley View School abuse.
You described my brother Mathew pretty well and I agreed.
I remember that. I do admit that you spoke up and said I was right. So I take back the group think comment.
I am not upset, killing Jesus made me really happy.
How could we have all been saved if he lived. He gave his life for us and for that we are all eternally grateful.
Cleaning his brains off the wall was a real bummer though.
Just Details, your soul had already been saved by that point.
It's hard to have an open mind about something like child abuse.
I agree, but what can we do? Close our eyes to it? If we have teachers raping our kids in the public school system why spend decades trying to close the schools down while they continue to rape our kids? What headway have we made… teachers are still raping our children. Is the school system abusing our kids or are the teachers doing it ? Hmmmm
I do appreciate your attempts to teach me....really I do!
"Programs are like swimming, no child wants to jump in the first time."
I really liked the "Cancer is not pretty but we treat it and the child suffers during treatment, but in the end they are cured."
I thought it was a good analogy but I couldn’t believe how pissed off people got when I said that.
I think your really creative.....got a picture of yourself?....maybe we could hook up.
I'll show you how I played with Jesus.
I like that thank you, Eliscu2. I feel we connected a little tonight and have found someone who understands me. Here is a picture of me. I tried to take a few of myself with the camera for FB but my arm is so big it blocks the shot coming back at me. So this is an older picture. I have lost over 30 lbs since this was taken and wear contacts now which really makes a difference. I will post some more updated photos soon.
(http://http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_azEh5s79kCE/SNWpiES1PEI/AAAAAAAABk4/ZdCe0NR6Owc/s400/obese_fat_guy.jpg)
...
-
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Jeesh Feliceesh,
All this drivel coming out of you because I said your out of your league bantering on the thread. Well I was right, Felice. Your last few posts sound like you are retarded or your asking ER to edit for you. If I remember correctly you chastised me for getting off topic here on this thread...uh....em' hem', isn't that what your doing.
Now lets get back on topic and have a serious debate here, com'on we can do it
Have a good nite, now.
Danny
-
Hey Whooty I think I did agree with you once.
Right here on this very thread.
.....way back when we were talking about Valley View School abuse.
You described my brother Mathew pretty well and I agreed.
I remember that. I do admit that you spoke up and said I was right. So I take back the group think comment.
I am not upset, killing Jesus made me really happy.
How could we have all been saved if he lived. He gave his life for us and for that we are all eternally grateful.
Cleaning his brains off the wall was a real bummer though.
Just Details, your soul had already been saved by that point.
It's hard to have an open mind about something like child abuse.
I agree, but what can we do? Close our eyes to it? If we have teachers raping our kids in the public school system why spend decades trying to close the schools down while they continue to rape our kids? What headway have we made… teachers are still raping our children. Is the school system abusing our kids or are the teachers doing it ? Hmmmm
I do appreciate your attempts to teach me....really I do!
"Programs are like swimming, no child wants to jump in the first time."
I really liked the "Cancer is not pretty but we treat it and the child suffers during treatment, but in the end they are cured."
I thought it was a good analogy but I couldn’t believe how pissed off people got when I said that.
I think your really creative.....got a picture of yourself?....maybe we could hook up.
I'll show you how I played with Jesus.
I like that thank you, Eliscu2. I feel we connected a little tonight and have found someone who understands me. Here is a picture of me. I tried to take a few of myself with the camera for FB but my arm is so big it blocks the shot coming back at me. So this is an older picture. I have lost over 30 lbs since this was taken and wear contacts now which really makes a difference. I will post some more updated photos soon.
(http://http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_azEh5s79kCE/SNWpiES1PEI/AAAAAAAABk4/ZdCe0NR6Owc/s400/obese_fat_guy.jpg)
...
Wow Whooty!
How do you walk around without women attacking you?
I think I am in love here!
I just can't decide if it is your mind or body that is making me feel this way.
I am going to be dreaming of you tonight....longing to hold you in my arms :heartbreak:
-
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Jeesh Feliceesh,
All this drivel coming out of you because I said your out of your league bantering on the thread. Well I was right, Felice. Your last few posts sound like you are retarded or your asking ER to edit for you. If I remember correctly you chastised me for getting off topic here on this thread...uh....em' hem', isn't that what your doing.
Now lets get back on topic and have a serious debate here, com'on we can do it
Have a good nite, now.
Danny
Other people have a nationality. The Irish and the Jews have a psychosis.
Brendan Behan, Irish writer and playwright
-
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Jeesh Feliceesh,
All this drivel coming out of you because I said your out of your league bantering on the thread. Well I was right, Felice. Your last few posts sound like you are retarded or your asking ER to edit for you. If I remember correctly you chastised me for getting off topic here on this thread...uh....em' hem', isn't that what your doing.
Now lets get back on topic and have a serious debate here, com'on we can do it
Have a good nite, now.
Danny
Other people have a nationality. The Irish and the Jews have a psychosis.
Brendan Behan, Irish writer and playwright
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Thanks Feliceesh, nice new name.
Danny
-
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Re: Valley View School Abuse
Postby Eliscu2 » Yesterday, 20:53
I have been brainwashed by the fornits cult.
You know what sad Felice, you have allowed yourself. You don't speak with a open mind you speak from a mind that has been conditioned through fear over and over. Turn it off, Double Bind.
I am powerless over my own thoughts.
That is what I'm say'in. You do have the power.
I have found Jesus! (he was under my bed this whole time)
Jesus smelled really bad and the only reason I found him was because of the stench
That is bad Karma.....
Jesus told me I should love everyone ESPECIALLY people like you Whooty.
Jesus said that if I did everything he said and stayed away from ::evil:: fornits ::evil:: I could go to church tomorrow morning and be part of the second comming.
I told him I was Jewish and he said that's o.k., I'm Jewish too.
I asked him how he could be G-d and just a Jewish guy at the same time.
He changed the subject on me.
He told me everything written in that book was either taken out of context or absolutely false.
I said "I can relate"
Bad Karma
I asked him why I had to follow a book that was total bullshit and stay away from fornits.
He said he was testing me.
I asked him why.
He said he likes to play games.
Every time I tried to ask him a direct question he would distract me or cause some kind of diversion.
Bad Karma again and you wonder why......
Jesus and I played all day long and when we were done I killed him.
Karma Feliceesh
I just figured it was about time I thought for myself.
My very first thought that I have had all by myself since discovering fornits!
My first real thought of my own was "Kill Jesus".
Now Jesus is dead and will not be saving anybody.
It took me hours to clean up the mess!
This is why I don't listen to my own thought
[/quote][/quote]s.
You must be living alone because your soul mate is lost and dying.
Danny
-
the Benkrugnadlick has posted on 4nits 541 times
posts on 4nits.
2 have slightly exposed elan yet Bennison still revels in the GLORY of being an abuser in those 2 posts and relishes his role in the elan scheme of things
posts on 4nits
all of of AA Bennisons posts are are in direct contradiction of the AA twelve steps and 12 traditions If Bennison wipes his ass like he works AA THEN he most certainly have oozing piles around the hole that the Krugly covets maybe next time Bennison is recieving the Krugly he will ask the Krugly to use a lube that has antibiotics in it
posts on 4nits
oooooo that smell can you not smell that smell the smell of death that is all around you because of you
posts on 4nits
Most of Bennison's posts are attacks on other suvivors Bennison doesn't know the Benkrugnadlick does not care which program the survivors was in he attacks he siddles up like a crab to the suvivor plays buddy suckie and THEN attacks with the viciousiness of a program trained abuser and he still tries to seeks his GLORY in all of this
posts on4 nits
Bennison is a pathological drama queen that loves gossip and hearsay he is incapable of standing on his own 2legs and being an honest human being because he likes getting on all 4s while the Krugly with his huge fuckin swollen hands double fists the vomit out of him Bennison beggs for a reach around but the Krugly says maybe next time as he thrusts his meaty mits into the place where Bennison poops.
posts on 4nits
when Bennison farts it sounds like 2 pieces of cardboard flappin in the breeze
posts on 4nits
Bennisons other posts ARE such nonsense that nobodee responds or replies to his lunacy bBnkrugnadlick it is a GIVEN that Women should not die in childbirth but Bennison can not give you a reason one reason why
posts on 4nits
Bennison is so stupid that if his brains were cotton he would not have enough to make a rag for an ANT butta bing butta bang butta up bennisons butt says the Krugly
posts on 4nits
all his other posts he tries to explore his abusive training and futher his education in being an abuser by cuddling up to the whoot on the jrc thread looking for new ways to abuse former survivors
posts on 4nits
he is a misogynist as evidenced by some of his very disrespectful posts to the various women on 4nits he will not know what that word means
posts on 4nits
Bennison shits on this forum like he is the program director of 4nits as evidenced by his many posts out of the 541 posts of his where he angrily tells former survivors of other programs what to do
posts on 4nits
he is so deluded that he does not see what he posts is his tell he is a violent sociopath with severe borderline personality traits combined with exteme reaction formation mechanisms all can be found in his 541 posts
posts on 4nits
Benkrugnadlick enjoys his position in his mind he has no compunction ability at all no conscience to speak of is throughly IN DRIVEN that he can not respect other opinions also evidenced by his 541 posts
posts on 4nits
is very angry all the time 541 posts represents this anger all because he is a true sick fuck that imprinted on the Krugly in a fashion that only birds could understand and the Krugly will not give him the release that only TCK can give the sick fuck
posts on 4nits
he plays childish games posting private messages in his mind he thinks it will explain something but it simply makes him out to be the untrusworthy shithaed that his 541 posts represent
posts on 4nits
everyone on 4nits is so humbly greatful that we are not Danny Bennison and every one agrees probably even the whoot Bennison we are so greatful we are not you
posts on 4nits
is so deluded that he has actully posted with in his 451 posts that he has helped 4nits in exposing programs hahahahahah
posts on 4nits
Danny Bennison tub girl called she wanted to know if you wanted a drink go on Danny take a big ole swig you know you want to you stupid fuckin sicko
posts on 4nits
all the survivors on 4 nits are so fuckin happy we ARE not you and that we have love in OUR lives THAN to be an abusive program supporter like your 541 posts in 3 months prove.
posts on 4nits
THEN to be stuck in in a time that you can not escape because you are not a SURVIVOR so happy we all ARE that we are not you in any way shape or form you stupid sick deluded fuck
posts on 4nits
tub girl is waiting she wants to know if you want a little sip go a haed Bennison have a little drink you know you want it
posts on 4nits
626 times now....... :shamrock: AA Elan Assistant Director...Martybeninkruglikbotlieb
-
My loser con artist heroine addict brother Mathew B. Eliscu has threatened to "ruin my life" if I do not remove this Valley View School Abuse thread.
He claims he is in contact with people from Valley View School.
I am sure he is giving them a good time!
I was not the OP, he was!
He did post it from my computer when he was here trying to fuck my friends and I over.
Next time he leaves a "suicide message" on my answering machine I will ignore it and hope for the best. (his death) :suicide:
-
My loser con artist heroine addict brother Mathew B. Eliscu has threatened to "ruin my life" if I do not remove this Valley View School Abuse thread.
He claims he is in contact with people from Valley View School.
I am sure he is giving them a good time!
I was not the OP, he was!
He did post it from my computer when he was here trying to fuck my friends and I over.
Next time he leaves a "suicide message" on my answering machine I will ignore it and hope for the best. (his death) :suicide:
Its actually a win, win, Eliscu2. If the OP is a true statement then he will not get his lawyer to sue your brother. If it is a false statement then he may get a court order to locate the Original Poster and your brother will get his day in court to explain what he meant and how he came about drawing his conclusion of this guy and maybe get some help for his addiction in jail.
There has always been a long time issue with credibility with many posts here. We read about people saying they were abused in a program but when asked to name the person that abused them they clam up. This is a huge red flag indicating that the statement wasn’t true. It’s a fairly good acid test which has withstood the test of time.
If the statements are true then there is no need to worry about posting them.
…
-
My loser con artist heroine addict brother Mathew B. Eliscu has threatened to "ruin my life" if I do not remove this Valley View School Abuse thread.
He claims he is in contact with people from Valley View School.
I am sure he is giving them a good time!
I was not the OP, he was!
He did post it from my computer when he was here trying to fuck my friends and I over.
Next time he leaves a "suicide message" on my answering machine I will ignore it and hope for the best. (his death) :suicide:
Its actually a win, win, Eliscu2. If the OP is a true statement then he will not get his lawyer to sue your brother. If it is a false statement then he may get a court order to locate the Original Poster and your brother will get his day in court to explain what he meant and how he came about drawing his conclusion of this guy and maybe get some help for his addiction in jail.
There has always been a long time issue with credibility with many posts here. We read about people saying they were abused in a program but when asked to name the person that abused them they clam up. This is a huge red flag indicating that the statement wasn’t true. It’s a fairly good acid test which has withstood the test of time.
If the statements are true then there is no need to worry about posting them.
…
If my brother (Mathew) said the sky was blue, I could almost guarantee it was not.
It would be anything but blue.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Joel, I believe CEDU shut down, ancient history. I wouldn’t want to go through any of that crap anyway, who would? If my parents had threatened to send me to a program it would have been a wake up call for me. Lots of abuse occurs in this world and when it happens it is up to the individual to report it. Otherwise they are allowing other kids to get abused by their silence.
What bugs me is when people come on here and say that xyz program was abusive and then fail to go to the police or name names so others will not be abused by that person also. If they are keeping quiet it is usually because they made the story up because they are pissed at the school or trying to just get attention to fit in here on fornits.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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I cannot vouch for the OP of this thread nor the specifics of the claims since I don't know the OP nor, for that matter, Valley View School to any significant degree. But some of your generalizations regarding the occurrence and the reporting of abuse, Whooter, are simply ignorant and inflammatory.
There has always been a long time issue with credibility with many posts here. We read about people saying they were abused in a program but when asked to name the person that abused them they clam up. This is a huge red flag indicating that the statement wasn’t true. It’s a fairly good acid test which has withstood the test of time.
If the statements are true then there is no need to worry about posting them.
What you aver is false, and doesn't comport with what is known about long term trauma experienced by victims of sexual abuse.
In fact, these types of abuses, particularly when perpetrated in an environment where a group of peers can be recruited to protect the interests of the perpetrator or the institution in which it occurred, carry a tremendous burden of shame and fear about coming forward. These red flags you speak of speak more of that shame and fear than they do about the alleged falsehood of said claims.
This is particularly true when the institution in question carries a certain ideological clout, as with an institution of religious worship and, yes, even a program of education which claims to aspire to higher ideals of ethics and morality than your standard public school. It is not uncommon for victims of clergy abuse to wait 30-40 years before bringing their case to the public in some fashion or another.
Moreover, there is often a great deal to worry about when it comes to posting true statements about perpetrators and abusers. There have been incidents of cyber-stalking, actual physical stalking, rumor mongering retaliation, in addition to angry perps or their defenders contacting victims through their employer and instilling fear of losing the continuation of one's livelihood into the bargain. There have even been incidents of spurious lawsuits brought about in the hopes of intimidating victims into silence based not on fact nor false claims, but for the sole purpose of intimidation and harassment.
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...I believe CEDU shut down, ancient history. I wouldn’t want to go through any of that crap anyway, who would?
Lol. What do you call Monarch School? Boulder Creek Academy? Carlbrook School? Benchmark?
Lots of abuse occurs in this world and when it happens it is up to the individual to report it. Otherwise they are allowing other kids to get abused by their silence.
Pretty sanctimonious of you, don't you think? Sounds to me like you've never walked in those shoes yourself... How easy it is to judge, when you're not a kid with the whole world, including your parents, against you, eh?
What bugs me is when people come on here and say that xyz program was abusive and then fail to go to the police or name names so others will not be abused by that person also.
What makes you think they didn't go to the police? Sometimes it doesn't exactly do a hell of a lot of anything! A lot of these programs have the local sheriff right in their pocket. The sheriff in Bath, Maine, has a placard right over his desk on the wall: "Truth Over Harmony." What a joke.
If they are keeping quiet it is usually because they made the story up because they are pissed at the school or trying to just get attention to fit in here on fornits.
Whine, whine, whine...
(http://http://msnbcmedia4.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/ArtAndPhoto-Fronts/HEALTH/080522/g-080522-hlt-crying-baby-11a.widec.jpg)
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What Joel and Ursus said AND.......
Try telling anyone about a place hidden in the woods of Maine.
Try telling everybody about the things that happend at ELAN.
I told and I told.
What did I get?
5 Labels and 7 FORCED medications.
My Daughters got molested and abused in Foster Care for 9.5 years.
See what happens when you piss off peopl with Money, Power and Influence. YOUR FUCKED!
Ask Michael Skaekel what happens when you piss off the wrong Family.
Eva and Avery Eliscu own 4 homes in 3 Countries, but they were too busy to take the Grandkids.
They could have "hired-help" 24/7 but no.....
They would pick them up and show them off for special occasions and then send them right back to HELL.
Meet Eva Eliscu-Ediquitte Expert and World Traveler: http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA3WjozUCsU
She married my Father and send ALL of US to a PROGRAM....then re-decorated the house.
The people who worked at ELAN are STILL THERE TODAY...SAME PEOPLE.
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Lol. What do you call Monarch School? Boulder Creek Academy? Carlbrook School? Benchmark?
I looked at Monarch School history and there is no mention of CEDU. Maybe I missed it. The others I would need to research but I read where CEDU was shut down. Unless this another IBM connection of yours.
Pretty sanctimonious of you, don't you think? Sounds to me like you've never walked in those shoes yourself... How easy it is to judge, when you're not a kid with the whole world, including your parents, against you, eh?
So do you think the same should apply when criticizing parents who have at-risk teens? Hmmm, interesting thought. Double standard or oversight?
What makes you think they didn't go to the police?.....
Because I have asked them point blank and there is either no answer or they change the subject. I am not talking about kids who are embarrassed to talk about it. I am talking about kids who talk trash here on fornits about how they were abused but at xyz program but then when asked if they went to the authorities or asked to name their abuser they clam up. So we know it was just kids blowing off steam like Eliscu2’s brother.
Look at it from this perspective:
1. A kid gets transported to a program (They view it as kidnapping)
2.The program itself is described as a gulag or prison.
3.The way they are treated in the program is reported as abusive.
The first two are clearly embellishments invented to gain attention or create drama. Kidnapping carries a death sentence and Gulags have been closed. What makes you think we should take the third at face value?
Whine, whine, whine...
[ img ]
Well, I do agree that there is a high degree of whining here. But most of that is due to the fact that many of these kids never had to do any chores or respect any rules. So it is natural for them to whine and say they are being abused when they are forced to chip in and carry their share. But we shouldn’t make fun of them like that… although the picture is funny!
...
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How about taping a bunch of ketchup soaked Tampons to a girls head and giving her a General Meeting AFTER she got pummeled in THE RING?
I'll have to admit...I'd whine pretty hard...for years!
I certainly never had that shit happen at home. :jawdrop:
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What Joel and Ursus said AND.......
Try telling anyone about a place hidden in the woods of Maine.
Try telling everybody about the things that happend at ELAN.
I told and I told.
What did I get?
5 Labels and 7 FORCED medications.
My Daughters got molested and abused in Foster Care for 9.5 years.
See what happens when you piss off peopl with Money, Power and Influence. YOUR FUCKED!
Ask Michael Skaekel what happens when you piss off the wrong Family.
Eva and Avery Eliscu own 4 homes in 3 Countries, but they were too busy to take the Grandkids.
They could have "hired-help" 24/7 but no.....
They would pick them up and show them off for special occasions and then send them right back to HELL.
Meet Eva Eliscu-Ediquitte Expert and World Traveler: http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA3WjozUCsU
She married my Father and send ALL of US to a PROGRAM....then re-decorated the house.
The people who worked at ELAN are STILL THERE TODAY...SAME PEOPLE.
You have to tell/ contact Senator Olympic Snow, over and over. Been doing it for a while she needs to hear from more.
Jeesh I have only been saying this about parents and step parents since I got here. Matt, yourself and myself had some of the worst parents as children and have written individually about it in depth. Yet it seems ironic that we can not get along. Between the three of us we also don't get along with our sibling if we even have any. This is no coincidence people things happen for a reason. We were thrown together to rip one another apart (Elans way break them down) that we did well. Now what do we do.
Michael Skaekel life turned upon his mothers death, Rushton his father was adamant about keeping Michael home and getting care for him but Michael had more intense problems then anyone even wanted to admit. His aids push him into sending Michael to Elan and the other places he went to. Felice whether you want to except this or not Michael is in prison because of his guilt. Put alcohol, drugs and serious emotional problems into the mix and many tragic things can happen. Many people did not have the drug and alcohol problems others of us had I myself had come very close to taking someones life under the influence of this bad mix. But for the grace of god I did not. Michael did not have the extensive drug and alcohol history as other at Elan for sure. But you add in drugs and alcohol at the right moment along with a serious attitude problem driven by unresolved mental and emotional issues well like I said very tragic things happen. Prisons are full of Michael Skaekels.
What is so weird is Elanians want to use Michael as a rallying cry because of his abuse in Elan which is great but it has nothing to do with whether he killed Martha Moxely or not. The paradox, Michael went to Elan for a abuse he allegedly committed on someone was abused at elan for this allegation and then at his trial Elanians residents/staff ect....exposed abuses committed at Elan for all the world to see. We even had a drug addict talking with television stations making money that took the cash and killed himself, overdosed on heroin. This whole entire story concerning Michael Skaekel is sad no doubt but "DON"T" use him as a example of the little guy and the powers who abuse, Michael had the power for a moment and abused the little girl. God will forgive if asked.
Danny
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Let's not forget that Danny was an ASSISTANT DIRECTOR at ELAN.
Here is a liitle story from around his time so you can "Taste" it.
Just a little reminder for his sanctimonious ass.(excuse my spelling disorder)
http://www.bykevingray.com/stories/stor ... badcompany (http://www.bykevingray.com/stories/story.php?page=culture/badcompany)
Bad Company
Once upon a time, when a very different Lord of the Flies haunted the classroom.
On a February morning in 1979, deep in the piney woods of Maine, 20-year-old Liz Arnold watched as a houseful of teens berated a weeping girl who'd just wet her pants. The girl's name was Kim. She was 17. Moments before, she'd been spanked with a paddle in front of the 100 fellow delinquents and drug addicts—more than two thirds of them men—who made up the student body of the Elan School, a therapeutic community of last resort that, during its seventies heyday, may have been something far from therapeutic.
As the residents surged over the scuffed linoleum of the dining room, knocking over metal chairs, Kim curled into a ball. "You fucking bitch, fucking whore, fucking fuck-up!” Kim was enduring a "learning experience." She'd mouthed off to the school's senior residents, and at Elan in the seventies, this was the response. But the lesson was getting out of hand. "[We] were whipped into a mob," says Arnold, an ex-speed addict who'd arrived at Elan in 1978 after a phony suicide attempt forced her affluent Ridgewood, New Jersey, parents to seek professional help. "It was brainwashing. People like Kim were gonna be junkies or hookers if we didn't make them get their shit together." Arnold soon added her voice to the eardrum-breaking sound of 100 young adults caught up in the adrenaline rush of anger. To an outsider, it must have looked like madness, a Lord of the Flies outpost with castaways who were regularly dressed in tinfoil, diapers, and "hooker" skirts. Some had signs around their necks that read: I’M AN EMOTIONAL VAMPIRE or ASK ME WHY I’M A BABY or CONFRONT ME AS TO WHY I’M A WHORE. All were red with rage. "Kim," Arnold recalls, "was semi-catatonic."
No one can say what became of Kim after she left Elan five months later. But her story, and dozens like it, continues to haunt many former students. Some three decades later, there is a growing chorus of voices waking as if from a bad dream. Many say they were paddled; others say they were put into boxing rings, chained to chairs, restrained in straight jackets, all in the name of “personal growth.”
For 31 years, Elan—which remains open to 184 residents at $44,596 a year for a two-year program—has been among the most controversial of the nation’s residential therapeutic communities. Though the school no longer employs such Draconian methods, its administrators claim that the behavior modification they practiced was the only effective way to salvage delinquents. The approach—tearing down destructive character traits through relentless peer pressure—has even been praised by several parents and by some of the psychologists who treated the students; a number of former residents claim to have found emotional and mental calm through Elan’s rigidity.
But many Elan survivors say they’ve suffered lasting psychological scars. In 1975, deep in the heart of the flower-power, bell-bottomed sexual revolution, a team of investigators from the Illinois Department of Children and Family Services accused the school of abusing the eleven Illinois residents in its charge. After removing them, the team issued a report detailing “an atmosphere of pervasive fear and suspicion,” in which residents become “automatons.” The report charged Elan with starving its children, forcing them into useless labor, handcuffing them to chairs. Elan’s practices, it concluded, “violate…civil rights and liberties and deprive…children of their self-respect and dignity.” Another 1975 inquiry, by the Massachusetts Department of Youth Services, noted that residents were subjected to “severe humiliation” as well as “painful” punishments, including putting “bullies” in boxing rings to fight other residents (in one case, the bully was a pregnant girl).
Despite the charges (which were later disputed by Maine’s Department of Human Services), the attention eventually faded. And no one looked very closely into what happened to the young men and women of Elan for nearly a quarter century.
Now Elan is once again under scrutiny, this time thanks to activity surrounding the school’s most high-profile alumnus; a former teen preppy from Greenwich, Connecticut, named Michael Skakel.
Skakel, a nephew of Ehtel Kennedy’s, is charged, as the tabloids have repeatedly trumpeted, with the 1975 Halloween Eve murder of his neighbor Martha Moxley, who was found bludgeoned and stabbed with a golf club on her family’s estate. Skakel was 15.
Last year, Connecticut prosecutors filed charges after two former Elan residents told a grand jury that Skakel, now 41, confessed to the killing in 1978, when he was a resident at the school. Skakel enrolled at Elan as a 19-year-old alcoholic and spent two years dying out (he’d later call the place a “concentration camp for kids”). A fellow resident claims to have heard him brag: “I am going to get away with murder. I’m a Kennedy.”
It turns out the Kennedy name didn’t help much at this very undemocratic enclave: According to a classmate, Kennedy was pummeled in the boxing ring and forced to wear a degrading five-foot dunce cap and model a sign that read I AM AN ARROGANT, RICH BRAT. CONFRONT ME ON WHY I KILLED MY FRIEND MARTHA. Skakel’s attorney has said that any alleged admissions at the school were simply attempts to avoid more abuse.
In an effort to look back at the three decades of similar practices, Details talked to more than 30 former residents and staff members, as well as several adolescent therapists. Oddly enough, Elan opened amid the peace and understanding of the seventies counterculture. But left to its own devices, the school became and emotional cauldron of peer pressure and humiliation, scorching some of the very souls it was meant to save.
Route 26 is a two-lane highway that winds from the town of Gray, nineteen miles northeast of Portland, to the fire roads of Polan Spring, home to America’s favorite bottled water. The drive takes you past car-repair shops, plastic deer on tidy lawns, and swimming holes abandoned by tourists on this warm September day.
The Elan campus is a cluster of cream-colored cabins and trailers set on 33 acres of lakeside forest. On a picnic table, four teens chat with happy intensity. The place seems otherwise deserted. It’s a pleasant picture, making what once transpired here all the more unbelievable.
Elan was conceived in 1971 by Joe Ricci, a former addict and petty criminal from Port Chester, New York, and Gerald Davidson, a Boston psychiatrist. The pair set out, with one house and thirteen residents, to create a moneymaking venture; their small operation would grow into a multimillion dollar business with 100 staff members, fifteen buildings, and 184 residents from 26 states and three foreign countries.
More than anything, Elan was forged by Ricci’s swaggering charisma.
Raised by blue-collar grandparents just 32 miles outside New York City, Ricci was hooked on heroin by 15 (thanks to a car accident that started him up the painkiller ladder); he was busted for robbing a mail truck at 18. A judge gave him an ultimatum: seven years in federal prison, or time at the residential rehabilitation facility of Daytop Village in New Haven, Connecticut. Ricci chose rehab.
At Daytop, Ricci ran smack into a boot-camp-style commune. There was a rigid chain of command, menial jobs, and placards on addicts describing their faults, a device Daytop had adopted from California’s Synanon, the granddaddy of all therapeutic communities. The goal was sel-discipline combined with the grueling reshaping of personality through fierce confrontations. The emphasis was on pain.
At the time, corrections officials across the nation—with the blessing of sociologists—had begin to question conventional rehab, turning instead to hard-core therapeutic communities. These programs seemed to accomplish what few others could: a profound change in outlook and behavior that allowed hopeless junkies to begin their lives anew. With a surge of government money, they sprouted across the country, many of them run by Synanon graduates.
Ricci became convinced that such programs would make him rich. But it wasn't until he met Davidson, a psychiatrist and Harvard lecturer, that he found his true calling: his own full-blown therapeutic community, where he could implement his particular brand of in-your-face psychotherapy. The Elan School opened for business on May 30, 1971.
Ricci was soon ministering to the nation's hardest of hard-luck cases (many of whom were provided for with state money), addicts and criminals who'd bounced from jails to group homes to hospitals to rehab and back again. Alongside these felons, Ricci welcomed refugees from America's affluent suburbs—kids whose social rebellion had led them from Hendrix to heroin. Youngsters from Harlem slums worked out their pain with the children of CEOs from Chicago's wealthy North Shore. After the first year, Elan had 40 residents. Ricci was soon presiding over a student body in which residents were regularly shouted down by dozens of their peers. "I've never seen a sponge like you." "You've been a parasite all your life." Meanwhile, Ricci dug into the emotional core of his targets. "If you didn't come here, you'd be in a mental institution," he would growl. "People weren't put on earth to accommodate you."
"Joe was a Doberman," says Everett Dulit, emeritus professor of psychiatry at New York's Albert Einstein College of Medicine, who referred several Elan patients in the seventies.
"He'd say, 'Now, you listen to what I'm going to tell you, asshole. Because it's gonna save your worthless piece-of-shit life.'"
"Joe was very challenging in groups," adds Stuart Berry, who entered Elan as a 20-year-old junkie on opening day and became its first graduate in 1972; he briefly became a therapeutic director the following year. "There were some pretty bad guys; he needed them to understand their facade wasn't working."
Berry was a typical Elan elite: white, middle-class, and strung out from "living on the lunatic fringe" of the sixties. A grandson of a Cape Cod pharmacist, he'd found his way into Grandpa's medicine locker after a book on the Hell's Angels triggered his curiosity. Drugs turned out to be a great chaser for youthful alienation.
But as Berry soon learned, Ricci had his own cure for apathy. It began with hard work and peer pressure, using the strict hierarchy of a military outfit. Newcomers toiled on kitchen and grounds crews, working their way through the ranks, from "ram- rods" (crew foremen) to department heads to expeditors (who acted as a secret police that "booked incidents" of bad behavior on notepads), and, finally, coordinators, who were charged with overseeing such house activities as group therapy.
"The goal was responsible citizenship," says Dulit, who remains committed to such tactics. "It's fighting fire with fire. These are people who have caused enormous trouble in their lives. And I think people who tiptoe around these adolescents are wimps. You need a powerhouse to fight a powerhouse. And Joe was that model for me."
If a resident disobeyed an order, or if he failed to "relate" his feelings on a regular basis, punishment could come in the form of a "haircut." At Daytop, this meant shaving one's head in atonement. At Elan, it became a verbal firing squad.
Ken Zaretzky was Elan's 22nd resident. He was 15. He'd come from swank Highland Park, Illinois, hooked on heroin. Though the program set him straight, he has many complaints about Elan's tactics—including the time he was accused of stealing cigarettes. The punishment for such a crime? A "general meeting," the highest form of retribution, in which, he says, he was forced to eat four packs of cigarettes—coated with ketchup—in front of the entire house, until he got sick.
"Things could be out-and-out abusive," Zaretzky recalls. Now 45, he owns a suburban Chicago software company and runs a Web site, ElanAlum.com, where former Elan residents (and their parents) compare experiences. "They were nuts from time to time," says Zaretsky. Stuart Berry claims the kids' value as dollar signs outweighed any cause for concern. "Joe was accepting them because of the money," he says.
When Ricci began ordering quarrelsome residents to dig pointless ditches and created a boxing ring as a learning tool for bullies, Berry was appalled. Students were suited up with headgear and sixteen-ounce gloves. Then the entire house would form a human ring as the bully was forced to duke it out with four or five people in a row, until defeated. "There would be blood, there would be crying, there would be cheering," says Cindy Rob-bins, a suburban-Chicago runaway and chronic truant who entered Elan in 1982, at the age of 16. "A lot of people were just afraid. But it's not like you could step in and stop it. You'd be punished."
"I didn't like that at all," says Berry of Ricci's ring. "But at this point, Joe was out of tricks. Sometimes I think he did it for his own amusement."
As the years progressed, Joe Riccibecame a millionaire, a larger-than-life evangelist who'd strut through Elan in a leather coat, fedora, and aviator sunglasses, his silver Mercedes parked out front. "He called himself the god of therapy," recalls Liz Arnold. "But he looked like a pimp. He was cocky as hell."
As Ricci's demeanor became more eccentric, so too did the tenor of his therapies. Promiscuous young women (even kissing is not permitted at Elan) were tarted up in hooker costumes with garish makeup and forced to carry poles with signs that said 42nd street. Their male counterparts were dressed like hustlers. A person who acted like a child would be put in diapers and given a rattle. If you "reacted" negatively, you were encased in a tinfoil box with nuclear-reactor symbols and red buttons. One guy, caught peering into the women's dorm, was forced to wear a Peeping Tom raincoat.
The physical punishments also took on a more severe character. In between the paddling and the boxing ring, says Harry Kranick, who entered Elan at 16 in 1977 with a taste for Quaaludes—and mourning the recent death of his father—"[residents] were thrown into a cold shower. When they came out, they were spanked again. This went on for days." Kranick himself—who says the program straightened him out, though he remains bitter about its tactics—was the target of humiliating punishments. After the Elan football team lost several games against local high-school rivals, Ricci screamed at them "for being a bunch of pussies," recalls Kranick. "And I said, 'You know something, Joe, we're not here to play football. We're here to get our shit together.' He made us sleep naked in the dorm, guarded by guys with bats. I had to wear a sign around the house that said I’m a pussy and I can't express my feelings." But that wasn't the worst for Kranick, a witness in the Skakel case. After getting belligerent with a senior resident one day, Kranick says, he was stripped to his underwear, forced to put on a diaper "made of a nasty rag," and ordered to climb into a Dumpster and clean it with a spoon and a toothbrush. The task took two days. When investigators from the Massachusetts Department of Youth Services made their visit in 1975, they were horrified by what they found. Jerry Docherty, a member of the team, says Elan's "born-again" philosophy was well-meaning, but that he had doubts about any positive effects. "You're reinforcing negative behavior with negative behavior," says Docherty. "I had real problems with that."
Ironically, the 1975 state investigations at Elan— and the later exoneration by Maine health officials who ruled that its therapy was "innovative, appropriate, and beneficial"—only emboldened Ricci, says Zaretzky, who claims to have helped cover up practices during the Illinois review process.
"We lied through our teeth," says Zaretzky, a five-year Elan vet who started out as a resident and became a therapeutic director by the time he was 20. "That was my family. And my family was under attack. But everything the investigators said was true. That should have been a warning to mellow out. But we let it get worse." Zaretzky believes Elan's practices violated residents' civil rights—especially when they ran away and were hunted down. "We'd break into shooting galleries in the Boston slums, places where our guys had run off," he says. "We'd just grab them and say, Anybody that wants to fuck with us, you're welcome to.'"
By 1975, Elan's Gerry Davidson, the program's psychiatric director and co-founder, had begun accepting "full-blown" mentally ill patients, says Zaretzky. One of the biggest indignities newer residents suffered was the "electric sauce." Rumored to have contained feces, it was a simple goo, says Zaretzky, of kitchen trash, syrup, mustard, and ketchup. Upon being coated in sauce, some residents would scream, rip off their clothes, and lash out at counselors and fellow residents.
"We could not deal with these people," Zaretzky explains. "[They] should have been in a nice, warm hospital. We were absolutely not equipped."
Last January, Elan founder Joe Ricci died of lung cancer. He was 54. During his entire, 31-year tenure, Ricci had vehemently defended his practices (Elan claims that 80 percent of its graduates go on to college, though the school does not follow up on alumni academic success thereafter). Ricci also denied that Skakel ever confessed to the Moxley killing. Current school administrators, still reeling from his death, refused to comment.
Though Ricci can no longer defend his school, understanding what drove him may explain what took place there. Over the years, as residents swapped stories of abuse, Elan, with its autocratic leader and his demand for complete devotion, has drawn comparisons to cults—such as the People's Temple and the Unification Church—with Ricci standing in for Kool-Aid shillers like Jim Jones. "The group process was very powerful," says Professor Dulit, "and in some respects, very cultlike."
Ricci's rigid insistence on absolute faith in his tenets seems to have created an army of true believers. But instead of producing believers, says Daytop co-creator David Deitch, now a professor of clinical psychiatry at the University of California, San Diego, Ricci may have been turning out "closet fascists." Elan, it seems, empowered aggressive young men—and women—to crush the weak and fragile. Its residents learned to crave that power; many became emotional despots.
"You run the risk of training sociopaths," says Dulit. "They're people who operate just this side of legal. The other person never counts for much unless he can be used or exploited."
Over the years, say former Elan staff members and residents, Ricci himself became cruel and vicious—and he freed others to do the same. "It all got crazy," says Berry of the early seventies. "He'd unleash this rage on someone in a meeting for hours." An Elan consultant, Marvin Schwarz, now chairman of the Department of Psychiatry at Glen Oaks Hospital in Illinois (and a Harvard classmate of Davidson's), referred more than 100 adolescent patients to the school. But by the decade's end, he says, "the tactics were destructive rather than therapeutic," with the school's infamous haircuts little more than "symbolic castrations—and these were sick kids." He later quit in protest.
By the early eighties, several former residents claim, Ricci was getting drunk and smoking pot regularly. Though never proved, this tainted the program's credibility and made residents cynical. One day, in 1984, the internal attitude was so bad (by this time, Ricci had bought the state's largest harness racetrack, Scarborough Downs; he would later suffer two unsuccessful runs for governor) that several Elan staff members were busted to entry-level positions. Ricci sauntered in, says Ben Foster, a former truant and suburban "burnout" who was 15 at the time, and delivered a hypocritical soliloquy. "I'm going to go home, pour a nice glass of wine, and smoke a joint," he told a general meeting. "And you're all going to be here scrubbing floors."
In 1987, a woman named Bethany Berry claimed that she'd suffered sleep-and food-deprivation as well as assault as an Elan resident between the ages of 16 and 18. She later filed a lawsuit against the school, Ricci, and the state of Maine, charging abuse (it was eventually settled out of court for an undisclosed sum). No other former residents who spoke to Details say they have any interest in suing; most only want to put their toxic memories behind them. "They wasted two years of our lives," says Barrie Hughes, who entered Elan in 1983 at 14 after her mother placed her in a psychiatric hospital. "That pisses me off. But it's done."
Former residents wouldn't have much recourse if they changed their minds anyway: The Maine statute of limitations for physical or emotional abuse expires after six years, a term that begins for minors on their 18th birthday.
Nevertheless, wary perhaps of such lawsuits, Elan has changed many of its practices over the years. The school no longer forces its residents to wear humiliating signs. There are no more spankings. And the boxing ring hasn't been used in over a year, stopping, coincidentally, when the Skakel media coverage was at its height. (General meetings are still held here on occasion, as Elan's attorney, John Campbell, told Details in a brief letter, "when a student has not been responsive to other learning experiences.")
Meanwhile, the harsh glare that came with the Skakel case may be fading. A critical witness, Gregory Coleman, one of two former residents who claimed to have heard the alleged confession, died of a heroin overdose in August, a development that has weakened the prosecution's case. As Details wentto press, Skakel's attorney was seeking to return the case to juvenile court, where, if convicted, the Kennedy cousin would likely face little or no jail time.
And back at the Elan School, safe in the woods, a new student body is learning how to get along.
Thank you Danny....for all the love....and lies..and diversions....and all of it! :twofinger:
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How about taping a bunch of ketchup soaked Tampons to a girls head and giving her a General Meeting AFTER she got pummeled in THE RING?
I'll have to admit...I'd whine pretty hard...for years!
I certainly never had that shit happen at home. :jawdrop:
Wow, that is humiliating. I don’t understand why people have a need to do that to others. At this summer camp I use to go to the counselors would make the kid who came in last in a sporting event or the one who screwed up the most wear a pink jock strap to dinner at the mess hall. Talk about humiliating. It sure kept everyone trying not to be last. It seemed to always the same 2 or 3 guys every night.
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How about taping a bunch of ketchup soaked Tampons to a girls head and giving her a General Meeting AFTER she got pummeled in THE RING?
I'll have to admit...I'd whine pretty hard...for years!
I certainly never had that shit happen at home. :jawdrop:
Wow, that is humiliating. I don’t understand why people have a need to do that to others. At this summer camp I use to go to the counselors would make the kid who came in last in a sporting event or the one who screwed up the most wear a pink jock strap to dinner at the mess hall. Talk about humiliating. It sure kept everyone trying not to be last. It seemed to always the same 2 or 3 guys every night.
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Was the counselor's name Joe Arpaio as in Sherriff of TENT CITY AZ?
http://http://www.pinkunderwear.com/
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How about taping a bunch of ketchup soaked Tampons to a girls head and giving her a General Meeting AFTER she got pummeled in THE RING?
I'll have to admit...I'd whine pretty hard...for years!
I certainly never had that shit happen at home. :jawdrop:
Wow, that is humiliating. I don’t understand why people have a need to do that to others. At this summer camp I use to go to the counselors would make the kid who came in last in a sporting event or the one who screwed up the most wear a pink jock strap to dinner at the mess hall. Talk about humiliating. It sure kept everyone trying not to be last. It seemed to always the same 2 or 3 guys every night.
...
Was the counselor's name Joe Arpaio as in Sherriff of TENT CITY AZ?
http://http://www.pinkunderwear.com/
lol, thats funny!
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Do you think Elan is funny?
Would you reccomend sending a kid there?
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Do you think Elan is funny?
Would you reccomend sending a kid there?
I havent really read much on Elan so I wouldnt know and I am not in a position to recommend any program to anyone. A sheriff selling pink underwear and pink handcuffs is funny, though.
...
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How about taping a bunch of ketchup soaked Tampons to a girls head and giving her a General Meeting AFTER she got pummeled in THE RING?
I'll have to admit...I'd whine pretty hard...for years!
I certainly never had that shit happen at home. :jawdrop:
Wow, that is humiliating. I don’t understand why people have a need to do that to others. At this summer camp I use to go to the counselors would make the kid who came in last in a sporting event or the one who screwed up the most wear a pink jock strap to dinner at the mess hall. Talk about humiliating. It sure kept everyone trying not to be last. It seemed to always the same 2 or 3 guys every night.
Are you trying to say that wearing a pink jock strap to dinner at summer camp, a place that is probably ordinarily a pretty fun place to be, is in the same ball park as being pummeled by multiple frenzied opponents in a boxing ring, then having to wear ketchup-soaked tampons on one's head as a crowning glory, and then being screamed at and spat upon in a General Meeting?
Or is this yet another one of your fabricated scenarios that you come with... to drive home the point that you think people exaggerate their stories here on fornits?
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.
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Do you think Elan is funny?
Would you reccomend sending a kid there?
I havent really read much on Elan so I wouldnt know and I am not in a position to recommend any program to anyone. A sheriff selling pink underwear and pink handcuffs is funny, though.
The fact that you cannot answer that question is quite telling. You've read plenty on Elan. You've commented on and carried on discussions in enough threads to have that answer at the ready.
You just don't want to say it! You know you'll get creamed for it!
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How about taping a bunch of ketchup soaked Tampons to a girls head and giving her a General Meeting AFTER she got pummeled in THE RING?
I'll have to admit...I'd whine pretty hard...for years!
I certainly never had that shit happen at home. :jawdrop:
Wow, that is humiliating. I don’t understand why people have a need to do that to others. At this summer camp I use to go to the counselors would make the kid who came in last in a sporting event or the one who screwed up the most wear a pink jock strap to dinner at the mess hall. Talk about humiliating. It sure kept everyone trying not to be last. It seemed to always the same 2 or 3 guys every night.
Are you trying to say that wearing a pink jock strap to dinner at summer camp, a place that is probably ordinarily a pretty fun place to be, is in the same ball park as being pummeled by multiple frenzied opponents in a boxing ring, then having to wear ketchup-soaked tampons on one's head as a crowning glory, and then being screamed at and spat upon in a General Meeting?
Or is this yet another one of your fabricated scenarios that you come with... to drive home the point that you think people exaggerate their stories here on fornits?
I remember that the kids who had to wear the pink Jock straps were not having a good time and it wasnt fun for them. It was humiliating. They did have boxing matches but it was voluntary and something you needed to sign up for ahead of time. But humiliation is humiliation in my book.
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Do you think Elan is funny?
Would you reccomend sending a kid there?
I havent really read much on Elan so I wouldnt know and I am not in a position to recommend any program to anyone. A sheriff selling pink underwear and pink handcuffs is funny, though.
The fact that you cannot answer that question is quite telling. You've read plenty on Elan. You've commented on and carried on discussions in enough threads to have that answer at the ready.
You just don't want to say it! You know you'll get creamed for it!
Ursus, How can anyone get creamed on a web site? We are all anonymous. I answered the question. People typically recommend places to others when they have had some experience with them first hand or have had friends who have seen some success. I dont have those advantages with Elan.
If you had eaten at Wendys and Burger King you would be in a position to recommend those places but you would not be in a position to recommend McDonalds. Do you see what I mean? I have read about Elan here on fornits but I havent spoken to any parents or kids who have had a "positive experience" so I dont have a balanced view point from which to make a decision about the place.
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Non sequitur this, or maybe not! Just happened to espy your user stats after your last post, Whooter:
Whooter
phpBB Frequent poster
Posts: 666
Joined: 28 Jun 2009 15:52
::evil:: · ::evil:: · ::evil:: · ::evil:: · ::evil:: · ::evil::
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Non sequitur this, or maybe not! Just happened to espy your user stats after your last post, Whooter:
Whooter
phpBB Frequent poster
Posts: 666
Joined: 28 Jun 2009 15:52
::evil:: · ::evil:: · ::evil:: · ::evil:: · ::evil:: · ::evil::
Need to change that.... I will not sleep well.
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:eek:
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Non sequitur this, or maybe not! Just happened to espy your user stats after your last post, Whooter:
Whooter
phpBB Frequent poster
Posts: 666
Joined: 28 Jun 2009 15:52
::evil:: · ::evil:: · ::evil:: · ::evil:: · ::evil:: · ::evil::
Priceless!
Whooty side-stepping the Elan School question on post # 666
Elan School, PO Box 578, Poland, Maine 04274-0578, Tel: (207) 998-4666
Skull n Bones baby! :poison:
Eliscu2, I read back over the posts and I dont see that I avoided any question. I addressed your post. Maybe you intended something that wasnt there or expected a specific response. What you can try (and what I typically do when I am in your situation) is to rephrase the question or point out the question that was missed.
Interesting Trivia… 666 is also:
The sum of the digits from 1 thru 36….
And the only number to include all of the Roman numerals (under 1,000) in exact descending order….
DCLXVI.
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Maybe this question?:
Do you think Elan is funny?
I don’t think Elan is funny but I do find it ironic that the school is named Elan. My understanding of the word is quite different than others. Elan is also a neurological event. Consider this phrase for a moment:
I was rejected vs. I was “in” rejected. By inserting the word “in” into the sentence it produces a stimuli "Early left anterior negativity"(ELAN) which stops the brain from understanding the sentence because it doesn’t make sense. This abrupt stoppage of the brain is what causes the ELAN. Eventually your brain will adapt. But it will adapt to something different.
In understanding language the brain steps thru as follows:
1. Group of individual words
2. Word order
3. Spoken words (orally or thru thought)
4. Then understanding. (cognitive thought)
If you screw with the “word order” then the brain emits an ELAN (Neurological response) and the brain cannot move forward with its processing of the sentence and is subsequently derailed. Word order is a prerequisite to understanding and relying on the rules.
Maybe this was the underlying premise of the school? To change the way you view the world thru constant manipulation of the rules until the broken rules feel normal. Once the brain is in a state of ELAN there is a very short window of opportunity to alter its perception and to have it follow a new set of rules. These rules may or may not be consistent with the rules society has defined as normal.
Something to think about.
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Maybe this question?:
Do you think Elan is funny?
I don’t think Elan is funny but I do find it ironic that the school is named Elan. My understanding of the word is quite different than others. Elan is also a neurological event. Consider this phrase for a moment:
I was rejected vs. I was “in” rejected. By inserting the word “in” into the sentence it produces a stimuli "Early left anterior negativity"(ELAN) which stops the brain from understanding the sentence because it doesn’t make sense. This abrupt stoppage of the brain is what causes the ELAN. Eventually your brain will adapt. But it will adapt to something different.
In understanding language the brain steps thru as follows:
1. Group of individual words
2. Word order
3. Spoken words (orally or thru thought)
4. Then understanding. (cognitive thought)
If you screw with the “word order” then the brain emits an ELAN (Neurological response) and the brain cannot move forward with its processing of the sentence and is subsequently derailed. Word order is a prerequisite to understanding and relying on the rules.
Maybe this was the underlying premise of the school? To change the way you view the world thru constant manipulation of the rules until the broken rules feel normal. Once the brain is in a state of ELAN there is a very short window of opportunity to alter its perception and to have it follow a new set of rules. These rules may or may not be consistent with the rules society has defined as normal.
Something to think about....
This is exactly why I am glad your here, because you get it where others don't.
Thanks for that intellectual tidbit on "Elan".
Seriously.....
Danny
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Maybe this question?:
Do you think Elan is funny?
I don’t think Elan is funny but I do find it ironic that the school is named Elan. My understanding of the word is quite different than others. Elan is also a neurological event. Consider this phrase for a moment:
I was rejected vs. I was “in” rejected. By inserting the word “in” into the sentence it produces a stimuli "Early left anterior negativity"(ELAN) which stops the brain from understanding the sentence because it doesn’t make sense. This abrupt stoppage of the brain is what causes the ELAN. Eventually your brain will adapt. But it will adapt to something different.
In understanding language the brain steps thru as follows:
1. Group of individual words
2. Word order
3. Spoken words (orally or thru thought)
4. Then understanding. (cognitive thought)
If you screw with the “word order” then the brain emits an ELAN (Neurological response) and the brain cannot move forward with its processing of the sentence and is subsequently derailed. Word order is a prerequisite to understanding and relying on the rules.
Maybe this was the underlying premise of the school? To change the way you view the world thru constant manipulation of the rules until the broken rules feel normal. Once the brain is in a state of ELAN there is a very short window of opportunity to alter its perception and to have it follow a new set of rules. These rules may or may not be consistent with the rules society has defined as normal.
Something to think about.
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I think there’s something to this Whooter. Early Left Anterior Negativity (ELAN) has it’s roots in Neurolinguistics and describes a disruption that occurs in the brain when expected rules are broken. Elan is also identified as a certain brainwave pattern that occurs in the anterior cingulate, which is an error detection wave.
The anterior cingulate cortex (ACC) is the frontal part of the cingulate cortex, that resembles a "collar" form around the corpus callosum, the fibrous bundle that relays neural signals between the right and left cerebral hemispheres of the brain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cingulate_cortex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anterior_cingulate_cortex)
It makes sense that Early Left Anterior Negativity comes out of neurolinguistics because it shares the same characteristics as the “pattern interrupt technique” in Neuro-Linguistic Programming ( I posted this on NLP a little while ago viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30591 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30591) ). And not at all unrelated to NLP is the area of hypnosis that makes use of brain lateralization as a core part of the process. The basic concept is to depotentiate the left brain, that is the cognitive ‘thinking’ side associated with consciousness (with fixation, exhaustion and confusion), and stimulate the right brain, which is the creative, affective side. Hypnosis would also move from anterior to posterior brain lateralization as the posterior part is associated with past events versus the anterior which is focused on the present. You are likely to find that the common model for hypnosis is FIXATE ATTENTION, BYPASS THE CONSIOUS MIND, STIMULATE THE UNCONSCIOUS.
It would not surprise me at all to find that the name ELAN was chosen to symbolize the depotentiating of ones critical faculty. This is a very interesting connection and there’s ample evidence to think it might be the case because when you look into it you find,
“A Working Model of the Neurophysiology of Hypnotic Relaxation
ANTERIOR INHIBITORY PROCESSES
Fronto-Limbic Supervisory Attentional System.We went on to examine evidence of frontal inhibition in the context of a model of a supervisory attentional system which involves the frontal lobes and limbic system (Posner & Peterson, 1990; Shallice & Burgess, 1991). This system monitors ongoing activity and modulates behaviour in response to novelty, as in orienting, and when environmental stimuli convey conflicting information…..
The error detection wave has been localised to a midline anterior cingulate generator (Dehaene et al, 1994), a promising candidate for involvement in hypnosis. The anterior cingulate performs executive functions which have been subdivided into affective and cognitive components (Devinsky et al, 1995). The cognitive executive component is involved in response selection in advance of any movement and in cognitively demanding information processing such as Stroop interference, localised by blood flow imaging and lesion studies to the anterior cingulate. The affective executive functions are involved in regulation of autonomic and endocrine functions, assessment of motivational context and significance of sensory stimuli and emotional valence. These are mediated through extensive connections with the amygdala and periaqueductal grey and autonomic brainstem nuclei. Our results have indicated that the monitoring of motor performance carried out by the cognitive executive component remained intact, for the error detection wave and RTs were unchanged by hypnosis. Rather the affect system involving connections with the rostral limbic system including the amygdala would appear to be unresponsive with hypnosis, as shown by the absence of the error evaluation wave and apparently motivational influences on performance. This interpretation is also in keeping with the reduced electrodermal orienting activity reflecting a reduction in excitatory modulatory influences of the amygdala. Dissociation between cognitive and affective anterior cingulate executive systems would explain the increase in the Stroop interference effect with hypnosis.
Left Anterior Inhibition. There is evidence that anterior inhibition may be laterally asymmetrical and biased towards the left hemisphere in hypnosis. This was disclosed by measuring right and left hemisphere processing times with a haptic object sorting task in two studies (Gruzelier et al, 1984).
In summary there was further evidence of a selectivity of neurophysiological action of hypnosis shown through examination of anterior inhibitory influences:- 1) the dissociation between error detection and error evaluation waves; 2) the left lateralised influences on haptic processing and the improvement in right-sided processing that was specific to the active-alert induction; 3) the specificity within the left hemisphere for the effects on verbal fluency which were restricted to letter and not semantic designated categories; 4) the localisation of the changes in EEG coherence to within the left frontal lobe; 5) the restriction of the EEG coherence changes to the high alpha band.
http://www.mcmaster.ca/inabis98/woody/g ... 4/two.html (http://www.mcmaster.ca/inabis98/woody/gruzelier0814/two.html)
Cognitive Neuroscience Theory
Cognitive Neuroscience based theories of hypnosis explain hypnotic phenomenon patterns of brain activity. One researcher, John Gruzelier, used EEG data to show that hypnosis is characterized by a shift in brain activity from anterior (front) to posterior (back). Other research shows increased activity on the right side of the brain, and decreased activity on the left, and more specifically changes in activity in certain areas of brain associated things like verbal skills.
http://hypnosisschool.org/hypnotic/hypnotism.php (http://hypnosisschool.org/hypnotic/hypnotism.php)
In hypnosis
there is an inhibition of frontal functions, more so
on the left side than the right, and when the aim is
to induce relaxation with hypnosis, there is an
accentuation of posterior functions, greater in the
right hemisphere.
http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/rep ... /4/313.pdf (http://qjmed.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/89/4/313.pdf)
Neurolinguistics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurolinguistics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neurolinguistics)
Violation-based
Many studies in neurolinguistics take advantage of anomalies or violations of syntactic or semantic rules in experimental stimuli, and analyzing the brain responses elicited when a subject encounters these violations. For example, sentences beginning with phrases such as *the garden was on the worked,[45] which violates an English phrase structure rule, often elicit a brain response called the early left anterior negativity (ELAN).[36] Violation techniques have been in use since at least 1980,[36] when Kutas and Hillyard first reported ERP evidence that semantic violations elicited an N400 effect.[46] Using similar methods, in 1992, Lee Osterhout first reported the P600 response to syntactic anomalies.[47] Violation designs have also been used for hemodynamic studies (fMRI and PET): Embick and colleagues, for example, used grammatical and spelling violations to investigate the location of syntactic processing in the brain using fMRI.[20] Another common use of violation designs is to combine two kinds of violations in the same sentence and thus make predictions about how different language processes interact with one another; this type of crossing-violation study has been used extensively to investigate how syntactic and semantic processes interact while people read or hear sentences
Early left anterior negativity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_left ... negativity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_left_anterior_negativity)
The early left anterior negativity (commonly referred to as ELAN) is an event-related potential in electroencephalography (EEG), or component of brain activity that occurs in response to a certain kind of stimulus. It is characterized by a negative-going wave that peaks around 200 milliseconds or less after the onset of a stimulus,[1][2] and most often occurs in response to linguistic stimuli that violate word-category or phrase structure rules (as in *the in room instead of in the room).[3][4][5] As such, it is frequently a topic of study in neurolinguistics experiments, specifically in areas such as sentence processing. While it is frequently used in language research, there is no evidence yet that it is necessarily a language-specific phenomenon.
To summarize the three important ERP (event related potential)-components: First of all there occurs the ELAN at the left frontal lobe which shows a violation of syntactical rules. After it follows the N400 in central and paritial areas as a reaction to a semantical incorrectness and finally there occurs a P600 in the paritial area which probably means a reanalysis of the wrong sentence. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cognitive_ ... prehension (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cognitive_Psychology_and_Cognitive_Neuroscience/Comprehension) ”
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Do you think Elan is funny?
Would you reccomend sending a kid there?
Ya Felice the Elan that you write about is "funny" because you use it as a weapon. Your Elan is a cliche`, a gimmick, some side show to use for entertainment, ya Felice Elan is funny. Your funny Elan.
Whooter I"ll take the creaming.....lol.
Danny
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Valley View is indeed a dangerous place and has no "therapeutic" qualities at all. Their website is filled with lie after lie about a mostly non-existant staff and the school's lack of purpose. The truth is that they have NO counselors for the kids and have NO sessions for the boys to improve on anything. It is just a big fake lie from start to finish. They found a niche for sucker parents who are desperate for a solution to their unruly kid and WHAM-O into VV they go. They charge $60,000 per year and provide nothing more than room and board and extremely poor, and often, NO supervision. Kids get beat up regularly, drugs are ignored by the young night staff, and student bullies constantly threaten the smaller students. Valley View is NOT a place to consider.
Trust me on this - I sent my child there and had to pull him out for his safety. It is a very scary and 100% NON-therapeutic. AVOID THIS SCHOOL.
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There are some strange posts on here for sure, but the strangest of all are those that say that Valley View is a good school. Is is a fact that Valley View school is HORRIBLE and that Phil Spiva is a MEAN and SELFISH man. That school has nothing positive to offer anyone. They are an expensive FRAUD. I have experience with the school and know first hand how bad they are. The police officers in the region who I spoke with about the school also have nothing decent to say about the school. it is BAD for your child. Do NOT send your son there or you will regret it forever. Valley View school is DAMAGING to the children they house.
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:seg2:
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:wall:
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Was I a problem child? Yes. Was VVS good for me? NO.
I attended VVS and I have very negative things to say about it. The night staff have the permission to physically "detain" kids and while they don't use it often, some were out of line. While they eventually left, it was pretty horrible. The day staff (teachers) were a lot nicer and more professional, and I actually learned things from them. However, what happened after VVS was a disaster for me.
I ended up essentially "being asked to leave" my next school (Dunn) and I was completely unprepared for a real world environment. I ended up by accident in a small private school for highschool which was a godsend (they were all about emotional wellbeing). If it wasn't for that school, I doubt I'd be where I was today. I ended up failing my first three semesters at college and dealing with crippling depression for the next year and a half. I'm now 23 and doing extremely well, but only because I've moved out and have been attending REAL therapy.
Now, you could say "well throwaway, you may have been unique, more of a 'failure' then the other students". Well, the school I attended after Valley View was Dunn. There were 4 other students from VVS there. Two of them were expelled, one "chose not to return'' in the middle of the year, and the last was a known troublemaker.
When I left VVS, they were courting younger students in an attempt to no longer deal with the more troubled students of the past. This seems like a huge goddamn mistake as the staff didn't get any easier. Also, when I left, phil spiva was in the process of being replaced by rick bulgar, and scott longvall can burn in hell.
tldr, you send your kids to VVS, they WILL receive physical and emotional abuse, they WILL be forced to work in a work program, and there's a good chance they'll be unprepared for the outside world
(i attended two years from 2002-2004)
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The person who posted such an unfounded attack on Dr. Spiva should be ashamed. Valley View, under Dr. Spiva's leadership and guidance has helped countless young men find their way in a world that seemed totally against them. Is the program tough? Yes. Does it ask a lot of the boys?Yes. Does it teach them tolerance, resposibility, respect for themselves and others? Yes And how to cope in the world? Yes.
I personally know several young men who probably would not be in this world today if not for their experience at VVS and who are doing very well in their lives. To insult the program and especially Dr. Spiva with such despicable accusations can only be the actions of a malicious person who failed to learn the valuable lessons avaliable to them while at VVS. Dr. Spiva you have my total support.
A parent of a successful VVS graduate.
The program is tough. It did ask a lot of us. It also taught us that "faggot" is a good word, that if you do something wrong and you'll get screamed at and thrown around. Like I mentioned above, pretty much every student I went to school with from VVS ended up "leaving" under negative circumstances.
Yeah, I sure failed to learn lessons. Six years later, with REAL therapy, I'm a straight A student who is a year and a half from graduating. You were lucky that your son was so resilient or knew how to play the game going in.
So yeah, it can ONLY be the actions of a malicious failure. Thanks for painting everyone who disagrees with you that way.
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My brother Mathew B. Eliscu (chumply) is having a few problems with the Valley View School Alumni.
When he pulls the needle out of his arm he might remember begging me to help him expose the abuse at Valley View School.
Meanwhile I'll be laughing my ass off at the fact that he still bothers to threaten to ruin my life.... :-)
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I found 3 reviews here: https://plus.google.com/105607162811790217090/about
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I sent my son to vvs to help him with some behavior problems he was never depressed i found out after 2 years of paying 70000 / a year he was being betten and abused and the staff encouraged that it was like prison the mentallty and how life was there when he came home he was completely messed up he was 20x worse then when he went in he was mentally destroyed he couldnt function in daily life and last week he killed him self and left a suside note blameing vvs i found out this happend multiple times DO NOT SEND YOUR CHILD HERE OR HE WILL DIE
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DO NOT SEND YOUR KIDS HERE THEY ENCOURGE BULLYING AND PHYSICAL VIOLENCE THEY WILL MAKE SURE KIDS BEAT UP YOUR KID AND MAKE HIS LIFE MISERABLE IT LOOKS GARTE ON PAPER OR WHEN YOU VIST BUT THE WORSE COMES OUT WHEN THE PARENTS LEAVE YOU WONT KNOW TILL YOU GET A CAL FROM THE ER BEACUSE YOUR KIDS WAS BEATEN WITH A HOCKEY SSTICK AND STABED OR BEACUSE 10 KIDS GANGED UP AND BEET THE CRAP OUT OF A INCENT KID THEY WILL COVER IT UP AND VALLEY VEIW IS GETTING SUED BEACUSE OF THIS THIS IS AWEFUL PALCE MY KID NOW HAS PTSD PTSD. For years, HE nightmares in which he was back in the valley view dorms. Loud noises and voices caused me to flinch even into his 20s, and any time someone was angry with he immediately got a fight-or-flight response: he didn't want to be picked up and thrown or restrained. --- Valley View's only saving grace is that it is far less horrible than Elan, but there are still better things out there.
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I am an ex-student who was sent for 2.5 years (graduating around 2002). After I left, I was fortunate enough to eventually end up in a school that focused on positive reinforcement. Without that, I would be in a very different place than I am today. --- Between that fortunate school and VVS, I attended another boarding school with 3 other VVS graduates. All of us but one were expelled or "left" within the first year; the last was a known troublemaker. I don't know what happened to him. --- Valley View School left me with what I think was basically PTSD. For years, I had nightmares in which I was back in the valley view dorms. Loud noises and voices caused me to flinch even into my 20s, and any time someone was angry with me I immediately got a fight-or-flight response: I didn't want to be picked up and thrown or restrained. --- Valley View's only saving grace is that it is far less horrible than Elan, but there are still better things out there.
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Short to say. Sounds like what you could expect from such a place.