Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

I mean, wherever they are, all those other former Seedlings, it doesn't seem that they've googled The Seed and found this site.

Or if they have, they haven't felt a need to join the conversation.

Thank you to the protesters. I appreciate what you're doing, on behalf of all of us. Thank you for having the courage to get out there and shed some light on the atrocious deeds of Sembler and others.

I too think that Stripe's posts have been consistently thoughtful, articulate, fair, brave, and honest, and I was surprised to see Ft. Lauderdale attack her personally in this thread. I was also surprised that Lauderdale mocked the anti-hate/anti-straight protests, and seemed to suggest that protesting itself is some kind of ludicrous relic from the 1960s. God help us if that's true; if that's the case, we can really kiss our democracy goodbye.

It's actually been a cleverly used right-wing propaganda tactic, I think, that you see expressed in the media from time to time--dismissing the relevance of any type of protest by deeming it "reminiscent of the sixties."

I'll also say that, though Lauderdale is explicitly on the other side of the fence from me in these discussions about the Seed, it's also warmed me at times to read his friendly, funny posts, like when he's teased Greg about his sex appeal and so forth. I think that's sane and beautiful. What the heck, we're all here now, posting on the internet; we might as well lighten up with each other.

As for similarities and dissimilarities between The Seed and subsequent programs, I learned A TON by reading Maia Szalavitz's outstanding book, Help At Any Cost. I cannot recommend it highly enough, especially for anyone who wants an overview of the big picture of the "teen help" industry, both historically and currently. Excellently written too. A fascinating read. She's done a public service by writing this book and I hope it gets around.

I think the team of officials that refereed Super Bowl XL in Detroit must have been the same guys that called the state of Florida for GW Bush in 2000.

Seriously, that was the most abysmal officating I have ever seen.

I guess most participants in this forum probably reside on the East Coast so y'all were probably pulling for the Steelers anyway. But still, this level of corruption and illegitimacy, whether it be with pro football championships or national elections, is very unsettling to the discerning citizen.  It was as if the officials had an agreement not to let the Steelers lose. I never saw so many horrendously bad calls, and all in favor of one team.

If the NFL can get away this ON CAMERA, what kind of weird shit can Mel Sembler, Art Barker, and their ilk do behind closed doors, and in the White House? Don't tell me I'm the only one who sees the diabolical connection here?

Terrible towels indeed.
Go Seahawks, the REAL Super Bowl champs!

Hey look who Scooter Libby's new best friend is.
This is from today's New York Times.

Trial for Ex-Aide to Cheney Is Set for January 2007

By NEIL A. LEWIS
Published: February 3, 2006

WASHINGTON, Feb. 3 ? The trial of I. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, in the C.I.A. leak case will start next January, a federal judge said today.

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff, arrived for a hearing at Federal Court in Washington.

District Judge Reggie B. Walton said jury selection will begin on Jan. 8, 2007. Judge Walton said that he had hoped the trial could begin next September, but that Mr. Libby's lawyer, Theodore V. Wells Jr., will be tied up with another case. Republicans are likely to be pleased that the trial will be held after the Congressional elections.

"We are very happy with the trial date set by Judge Walton," Mr. Wells said outside the federal courthouse here. "The Jan. 8, 2007, date will permit us the time we need to prepare Mr. Libby's defense. The defense will show that Mr. Libby is totally innocent, that he has not done anything wrong, and he looks forward to being totally vindicated by a jury."

Meanwhile, efforts to raise money for Mr. Libby's defense are moving ahead briskly. Mr. Libby has pleaded not guilty to five charges of perjury and obstruction of justice in connection with the exposure of a C.I.A. operative's identity.

But the managers of the fund-raising effort on behalf of Mr. Libby say they have already reached the $2 million mark and expect to increase the pace when they start a fund-raising Web site. "It's a particularly excellent start," said Mel Sembler, the chairman of the Scooter Libby Legal Defense Trust.

Mr. Libby was indicted in October by a special prosecutor who charged that he had misled investigators about his role in disclosing the identity of the C.I.A. operative Valerie Wilson in discussions with reporters. In court filings, his lawyers have strongly suggested that any inaccurate responses he gave were the result of innocent confusion and his being preoccupied with more important policy matters.

Mr. Sembler, a Florida developer who is the former finance chairman of the state's Republican Party and the Republican National Committee, said Mr. Libby's lawyers had estimated that a solid defense would cost at least $5 million or $6 million.

The fund is not obliged under the law to disclose any details, including the number of donors, their identities or the amounts given. Barbara Comstock, a Republican communications strategist and an official of the fund, declined to disclose any of those details, except to say that there had been "hundreds of individuals."

Mr. Sembler said that there was a practical limitation in that federal law requires that taxes be paid on any gifts over $11,000 given in 2005 and over $12,000 this year. He said several donations had been made in those amounts.

"Scooter was a good friend and an excellent senior worker in our government," Mr. Sembler said. "He couldn't possibly afford this kind of legal defense on his own."

The fund's steering committee is composed of several prominent Republicans, a few Democrats and several friends of Mr. Libby. It includes three former Republican senators, Fred Thompson of Tennessee, Alan K. Simpson of Wyoming and Spencer Abraham of Michigan; two former Republican presidential candidates, Jack F. Kemp and Steve Forbes; and Prof. Bernard Lewis of Princeton and Prof. Francis Fukuyama of Johns Hopkins .

Dennis Ross, another committee member, has worked on Middle East issues for both Republican and Democratic administrations.

"He's been a friend of mine for 25 years," Mr. Ross said, "and I believe in him as a person and that he has a right to defend himself. It's a measure of friendship that you're there when people need you, not just when it's convenient."

Mr. Sembler dismissed any suggestions from critics that people might donate to ensure that Mr. Libby continue to battle the charges instead of providing prosecutors with any information damaging to other administration figures." These are activists who are concerned about this public servant and we're standing by him," he said. "It's not devious and there's nothing else to it."

Well, I didn't know about the Sembler connection so my last post was written in ignorance. The sentiment still stands, but now at least I get the idea of what the protesters would be trying to do.

I think Stripe's idea is excellent and would be effective, but how would we get the names and addresses of all the museum patrons and supporters? And who would pay for the mailing? Sounds like a lot of work. Are we that organized yet?

But what about a press release of some sort? Or a collectively signed letter to the editor, stating that, while we deeply respect the Holocaust Museum and the necessity not to forget the unthinkable atrocities and monumental tragedy of of the Holocaust, we find it ironic that two of the museum Board members are directly responsible for an entirely different massive atrocity, though not comparable in scale to the Holocaust (because what could be?), but an atrocious legacy nonetheless. We, survivors of Straight, Inc. etc. . . . hold Mel and Betty Sembler accountable for monstrous systematic abuse of young teens . . . perpetrated over a period of ___ years . . . etc. (And summarize the abuses perhaps.)

What do you think? Ginger, are you around? Seems like someone who is a Straight survivor should source this effort, were it to happen.

I completely agree with Greg.

Julie, just off the cuff, I think it's perfectly possible that Suzie truly befriended you. She was a true believer in the Seed, and she may have seen a bit of herself in you in some ways. The Seed itself was a warped program, but sometimes people genuinely did try to be kind in the context of all that party-line insanity.

Walter has written a bit about that paradox--how on the one hand, the Seed indoctrinated us into group think and did not tolerate independent thought, yet on the other hand, he really did enjoy some authentic connections with some good people in the cult and they had some great times together.  

I think it's all true -- especially with somebody like Suzie C. To me she epitomized the sometimes contradictory nature of the Seed. Suzie C. was very nice to me too. She often told me she loved me and I believed her, and I believe her to this day. I can't dislike her because she was lovely to me. And at the same time, I saw her behave just abominably to people in the group; she was an absolute emotional barbarian. She could be so vicious in how she attacked people.

In the account I wrote about the Seed which is online and which you read, I talk about a staff member named "Gloria" a couple of times. That's Suzie. She's the one who read the girl's intercepted love letters in front of the entire group (in an atrociously spiteful and humiliating fashion), and she's also the staff person who called me in to talk on my third day, and tried to scare me with stories about Raiford Penitentiary. Even then though, she didn't have a mean attitude toward me, and she never did. But oooh, if she didn't like you, she could so casually tear you apart, with what looked like relish.

Someone sent me an email recently saying that her experience in the Seed was "not that bad. I had some really kind staff and oldcomer treatment." Hey, it happened that way for some people.