Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on May 03, 2004, 04:29:00 PM
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Geeeeee George,
So that means it's Okay for you to keep smelly Melly in his position, pump and all even though his Straight Inc. tortured young people right here in the go ole USA??? Since when did you rate Iraqis over your own people?????
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... risoners_3 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=544&e=1&u=/ap/20040503/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_iraq_prisoners_3)
Bush: GIs Who Abused Prisoners Should Pay
1 hour, 59 minutes ago Add White House - AP to My Yahoo!
By RON FOURNIER, AP Political Writer
SOUTH BEND, Ind. - President Bush (news - web sites) urged Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to make sure that U.S. soldiers are punished for "shameful and appalling acts" committed against some Iraqi prisoners.
AP Photo
Reuters
Slideshow: Abuse of Iraq Prisoners Investigated
Latest headlines:
· Former human rights minister told Bremer about Iraq detainee abuse
AFP - 10 minutes ago
· Troops Recall Ex-Hostage's Escape in Iraq
AP - 11 minutes ago
· Bush urges punishment for abusers of Iraqis
AFP - 19 minutes ago
Special Coverage
And a Democratic lawmaker criticized the Pentagon (news - web sites) for not moving faster on the allegations of sexual, physical and psychological abuse at a detention facility in Iraq (news - web sites). Lawmakers from both political parties have urged the administration to act quickly as condemnation rises across the world.
Dealing with the international fallout over images of prisoners being mistreated by U.S. forces, Bush called the Pentagon chief before a campaign trip Monday to check on the status of an investigation.
"The president wanted to make sure appropriate action is being taken against those responsible for these shameful and appalling acts," said White House spokesman Scott McClellan.
Rep. Jeff Bingaman, D-N.M., said "officials within the department of defense have known at least since Jan." An internal U.S. Army report completed in February found that Iraqi detainees were subjected to "sadistic, blatant and wanton criminal abuses," according to The New Yorker magazine.
Gen. Richard Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said in a Sunday television interview that he had not yet read the report.
"This is an unacceptable response," Bingaman said Monday. "If he believed that swift action was required, he might have directed those in ... his command ... to get that report to him immediately upon completion and to give him concrete action items."
McClellan did not say what action would be appropriate against anyone found guilty of abuses, but said Bush wants those responsible punished.
"The shameful actions of a few do not represent the 99 percent of our men and women in uniform who are performing superbly," McClellan said.
He contrasted the U.S. abuses, which are being investigated and could lead to criminal charges, with wrongdoing under the former Iraqi leader.
"Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) encouraged and tolerated this kind of behavior ? the U.S. does not," McClellan said.
Secretary of State Colin Powell (news - web sites) called the incidents "despicable acts" and said that "my colleagues at the Pentagon have a number of investigations under way."
"It doesn't reflect on all of our troops," he said. Most of our troops are doing a great job upholding the highest standards of the service, doing everything they can to help the Iraqi people. We are there to help, not to hurt."
"The acts of a few must not overwhelm" the goodness of the vast majority of servicemen and women, Powell said.
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Yeah, its a crock. Its politically expedient.
I severely doubt anyone in the GOP actually knows wtf goes on, they just don't believe the accusations and do their paid promo thing like good puppets do.
But yes, I really am mad that those prisioners didn't suffer anything compared to what our own kids do, for a FRACTION of the time many of them do, and the whole fucking world gets mad. An american kid? puh-leeze.
And while I'm on my soapbox, the middle east is real fucking hypocritical. They do that shit and worse to their prisioners every day!
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two wrongs never make a right, sounds kindergarden but who is the real hypocrite
weren't the Americans the ones who were "supposed to be above that sick behavior?"
If we are just as bad then what are we doing there?
I am ashamed for America to be outed to the world as that cruel and sociopathical.
My heat is sad thinking of the state of the world after this. We cannot even live the illusion of morals and values.
I don't want to hear "isolated incident"
we are survivors of straight, look at this situation with the eyes of people who know what happens when the wrong person gets a little power.
:cry: :sad: The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest possible limits. ... and [when] the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.
-- St. George Tucker, Judge of the Virginia Supreme Court 1803
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Like it or not, the soldiers we idiots to take photos. I guarentee you that any American prisoner held by Iraqies would go far beyond humiliation.
You should see what Iraqie prisoners do to eachother....it goes far beyond what happens in our prisons.
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and that justifies it? Maybe you should apply for a staff position at one of the behavior mod schools in the US. I'm CEDU, et al would take you in a virgil miller newton minute.
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Its called realities of war dumbass, there are no rules. Has nothing to do with Straight cedu or others. That happened a long time ago get over it
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On 2004-05-04 09:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Like it or not, the soldiers we idiots to take photos.
Idiots? Are you sure? Or might it just be that they never got a clue from anyone around them that what they were doing wasn't just fine and normal?
In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
--Martin Luther King
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On 2004-05-04 10:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Its called realities of war dumbass, there are no rules. Has nothing to do with Straight cedu or others. That happened a long time ago get over it
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There ARE Rules! AND the very same people in power who protect the Sembler's and the Newton's will allow this to slide with a slap on the wrist. The Bush's and all their cronies have everything to do with Straight. As long politicians who protect and appoint people like Sembler and others I will Not get over it. Until the last one has dropped out of power or has been torn down. The very problem that existed and continues to exist in our political hierarchy and with those in power that allowed atrocities to occur in straight and other faciilities are the same people who are crying isolated incident. How can you be this ignorant?
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its great to see so much commerce and money being made over abuse. It makes the world go round. You know it does. It does. It still does. Right now it does too. Here again, it does. Again with the making of the commerce and drama and fat wads of cash by subjecting others to power mongering. Here it happened again. And again. Somewhere, just now, someone was perped against. And again. I want some of this action. Give me some of that money. Oh. Hey. It just happened again, and it might make it to the news this time, and the person who did it will be a hero somehow.
And again.
And again.
And again.
It never ends.
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They knew it was fucking wrong. You gonna tell me that if you were in the millitary and taking care of POWs (Thats what guards in jails and prisons are there for to TAKE CARE of and KEEP SAFE and SECURE prisoners...not to PUNISH)
you wouldnt familiarize yourself with the Geneva Convention rules and regs?
Hell even I know that shit is illegal and Ive never been anywhere near the millitary..
Its just wrong on so many levels..
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http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/ (http://www.thememoryhole.org/war/iraqis_tortured/)
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http://tinyurl.com/ytown (http://tinyurl.com/ytown)
This is pretty interesting about the stanford experiment. It talks about how people can get sucked into playing certain roles and how important being able to disagree is. How taking away a person's individuality can keep them under control. This sounds familiar to me...
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On 2004-05-04 09:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Like it or not, the soldiers we idiots to take photos. I guarentee you that any American prisoner held by Iraqies would go far beyond humiliation.
You should see what Iraqie prisoners do to eachother....it goes far beyond what happens in our prisons."
Can you offer me any accusations by captives/hostages recently released by the Iraqi's which indicate any type of torture... I don't believe there have been any reported. Period.
Unless you can base this statement on some fact you are only making yourself look extremely ignorant.
What Iraqi prisoners do to each other...??
What on earth does that have to do with U.S. Citizens raping, torturing, murdering humiliating, women and men, violating the geneva convention, casting aside all morals and regard for human life all in the name of FUCKING LIBERATION and a FIGHT for HUMAN RIGHTS YOU IDIOT! You and all those who think like that are responsible for what is happening now and for our government not being held accountable for their greed and hatred. To hell with you. What if it were your sister "having sex" (RAPED) by military police, your brother being murdered, your mother or your father in a naked human pyramid being sodomized (RAPED) with chemical lights, your grandfather beaten to death while in jail after being arrested for a fist fight or an accusation of theft or carjacking? Are you for real? Do you hate Arabs? What on earth is wrong with you? Are you just a racist?
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On 2004-05-03 21:40:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"Yeah, its a crock. Its politically expedient.
I severely doubt anyone in the GOP actually knows wtf goes on, they just don't believe the accusations and do their paid promo thing like good puppets do.
But yes, I really am mad that those prisioners didn't suffer anything compared to what our own kids do, for a FRACTION of the time many of them do, and the whole fucking world gets mad. An american kid? puh-leeze.
And while I'm on my soapbox, the middle east is real fucking hypocritical. They do that shit and worse to their prisioners every day!"
The "Middle East". Boy that's just a plain stupid ignorant generalization now isn't it.
And what was it that our Kids have suffered? And on what grounds should they even be there in the first place?
The only hypocritical thing going on is our government claiming this is in the name of
- fighting terrorism (how does this make us safer?)
-liberation (this is an occupation)
-human rights (Rape, Sodomy, Torture, Humiliation, MURDER)
The Iraqi's have never claimed to be fighting to liberate anyone or fight for human rights. What the hell are you even talking about?
These news flashes haven't even been initially based on "Iraqi claims of abuse." They are based on hard evidence in photo's and videos and testimonies of other US service men who were appalled by what they saw and knew unlike you, how horrendous all that is taking place is.
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On 2004-05-03 21:40:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"Yeah, its a crock. Its politically expedient.
I severely doubt anyone in the GOP actually knows wtf goes on, they just don't believe the accusations and do their paid promo thing like good puppets do.
But yes, I really am mad that those prisioners didn't suffer anything compared to what our own kids do, for a FRACTION of the time many of them do, and the whole fucking world gets mad. An american kid? puh-leeze.
And while I'm on my soapbox, the middle east is real fucking hypocritical. They do that shit and worse to their prisioners every day!"
Hmmm. According to Pentagon Sources and High Officials the reports in the newspaper have indicated that the tactics used are only to be used if approved by Senior Pentagon Officials and Rumsfield. Yes the Defense Secretery. Try doing a little basic reading before you start rambling about what's happening. Do you really believe this order was just blatantly ignored and the GOP knew nothing? Haven't you read that the White House had been warned by the Red Cross, I think Amnesty International as well as others repeatedly? Pull your head from your ass.
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Hey, anons, shut the fuck up.
You really expect me to believe that kind of torture (or whatever kind they chose to employ) isn't widespread? Pot->Kettle->Black is all I have to say to the outcry from that part of the world. Is it still bad? Yep!
Is it good anywhere? No. STFU.
Should we protect our own children? YES! STFU
Now, about some higher-ups knowing about the abuse like Rumsfeld... I give a fuck? Do I like most people in washington? ummm no. Think I consider Bush a good leader? Nope. At least I'm still able to do so.
About how its hypocritical that we're in Iraq bla bla bla no international support bla bla Bush is a liar. Um, Duh?
I don't care what anyone is claiming to (or actually) fighting for. I don't care if the Whitehouse is giving those sadists in Iraq a big fat thumbs up. I'm fully aware all of this is full of shit.
I also don't care to debate if I was exactly right or Politically correct for saying human rights abuses seem to be common in the Middle East. I don't care to debate what the whitehouse and congress did or did not know about the abuse. Its bad, and I know it.
My point was some people in Iraq getting roughed up and humiliated by some US soldiers is getting more media attention than our own kids being abused. I also pointed out that the middle east is hardly the best place to live if you want to have your human rights respected (unless you are very wealthy, and/or male).
To everyone that wants to nitpick details or deny the existance of the abuse within our own borders... shut up.
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5. (S) That between October and December 2003, at the Abu Ghraib Confinement Facility (BCCF), numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses were inflicted on several detainees. This systemic and illegal abuse of detainees was intentionally perpetrated by several members of the military police guard force (372nd Military Police Company, 320thMilitary Police Battalion, 800th MP Brigade), in Tier (section) 1-A of the Abu Ghraib Prison (BCCF). The allegations of abuse were substantiated by detailed witness statements (ANNEX 26) and the discovery of extremely graphic photographic evidence. Due to the extremely sensitive nature of these photographs and videos, the ongoing CID investigation, and the potential for the criminal prosecution of several suspects, the photographic evidence is not included in the body of my investigation. The pictures and videos are available from the Criminal Investigative Command and the CTJF-7 prosecution team. In addition to the aforementioned crimes, there were also abuses committed by members of the 325th MI Battalion, 205th MI Brigade, and Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center (JIDC). Specifically, on 24 November 2003, SPC Luciana Spencer, 205th MI Brigade, sought to degrade a detainee by having him strip and returned to cell naked. (ANNEXES 26 and 53)
6. (S) I find that the intentional abuse of detainees by military police personnel included the following acts:
a. (S) Punching, slapping, and kicking detainees; jumping on their naked feet;
b. (S) Videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees;
c. (S) Forcibly arranging detainees in various sexually explicit positions for photographing;
d. (S) Forcing detainees to remove their clothing and keeping them naked for several days at a time;
e. (S) Forcing naked male detainees to wear women?s underwear;
f. (S) Forcing groups of male detainees to masturbate themselves while being photographed and videotaped;
g. (S) Arranging naked male detainees in a pile and then jumping on them;
h. (S) Positioning a naked detainee on a MRE Box, with a sandbag on his head, and attaching wires to his fingers, toes, and penis to simulate electric torture;
i. (S) Writing ?I am a Rapest? (sic) on the leg of a detainee alleged to have forcibly raped a 15-year old fellow detainee, and then photographing him naked;
j. (S) Placing a dog chain or strap around a naked detainee?s neck and having a female Soldier pose for a picture;
k. (S) A male MP guard having sex with a female detainee;
l. (S) Using military working dogs (without muzzles) to intimidate and frighten detainees, and in at least one case biting and severely injuring a detainee;
m. (S) Taking photographs of dead Iraqi detainees.
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On 2004-05-10 22:55:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"Hey, anons, shut the fuck up.
You really expect me to believe that kind of torture (or whatever kind they chose to employ) isn't widespread? Pot->Kettle->Black is all I have to say to the outcry from that part of the world. Is it still bad? Yep!
Is it good anywhere? No. STFU.
Should we protect our own children? YES! STFU
Now, about some higher-ups knowing about the abuse like Rumsfeld... I give a fuck? Do I like most people in washington? ummm no. Think I consider Bush a good leader? Nope. At least I'm still able to do so.
About how its hypocritical that we're in Iraq bla bla bla no international support bla bla Bush is a liar. Um, Duh?
I don't care what anyone is claiming to (or actually) fighting for. I don't care if the Whitehouse is giving those sadists in Iraq a big fat thumbs up. I'm fully aware all of this is full of shit.
I also don't care to debate if I was exactly right or Politically correct for saying human rights abuses seem to be common in the Middle East. I don't care to debate what the whitehouse and congress did or did not know about the abuse. Its bad, and I know it.
My point was some people in Iraq getting roughed up and humiliated by some US soldiers is getting more media attention than our own kids being abused. I also pointed out that the middle east is hardly the best place to live if you want to have your human rights respected (unless you are very wealthy, and/or male).
To everyone that wants to nitpick details or deny the existance of the abuse within our own borders... shut up."
Nitpick the details? Here and abroad, I hope they nitpick every god damn detail. I wish everyone would until every last bit of truth comes out about exactly what happened and continues to happen in Iraq and here. I for one hope that the media continues to cry out in disgust so the world will know that we do not condone these actions in our country. That not all of us are o.k. with this or share your sympathy for these murderers and abusers. I hope that the media triumphs in releasing every last hidden secret that the military tries to cover up regarding the abuse and murder of Iraqi's.
I personally will not shut up until you can back up your comments with something substantial in the form of evidence or personal accounts that our soldiers or citizens have been tortured by Iraqis. You can spew out your ignorant misdirected anger all you want but it is obvious you can't answer the questions posed to you. We have heard for months and months about US soldiers dying, being kidnapped, often because of the faulty military plans the higher ups have made, often because their hummer's have flipped over and over, and all the while this has been kept under raps since at least October 2003 so it is high time we focussed on this and imperitive that the truth come out. It is the soldiers committing these atrocities who are "Sadists". When you have given me an equal weight of facts backing up your allegations of torture of Americans by Iraqi's we can talk but until then I can only view you as a bigot who thinks it's fine as long as these horrific acts are being committed against Iraqi's.
Maybe you could at least tell me who the "sadists" in Iraq are?
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If we wanted to protect our children and our citizens we wouldn't have sent them into Iraq in the first place, not to mention without ample back up from the air and ground on our initial invasion, not to mention without any international support, in a fruitless effort to fight a ficticious war. I have family in the military so don't preach to me about protecting my kid when he could very well be the one in a body bag for no better purpose but money and greed. He has confirmed the ill treatment occurring himself and Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, the Army?s own investigator, reported that the abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq was ?systemic.? and that Bush ignored previous reports.
If Bush and our government and our citizens wanted to protect our kids he sure as hell wouldn't have sent them over to Iraq in the first place under the lie that WMDs existed and that womens rights and human rights were so important to us and instead they would be making sure that the billions of dollars spent on this hoax would be put toward securing our boarders and skys and protecting our kids at home from another terrorist attack. Rather than alienating ourselves from the world we would be nurturing our relationships internationally to insure that another 911 never happened again. And we wouldn't be creating more enemies by raping torturing and murdering arabs and iraqis and then wondering why they are so hateful toward us.
So maybe you don't care about a whole lot of things that others have posted, or a whole lot about why we are in Iraq, and maybe you don't have a son over there, or care about iraqis or arabs, but I say Fuck your way of thinking because it is exactly what has caused this horrible governmental attrocity and has caused the lost lives of our soldiers.
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You obviously misunderstood me.
First, I wasn't even talking about americans being abused - I meant that in prisons in that part of the world, torture is common. I do NOT sympathize with anyone who abuses other people, or tortures other people! Don't put words in my mouth! Americans being abused in Iraq weren't even on my mind. Besides the burned bodies we've all seen on TV - if americans are being abducted, held captive, tortured and abused, of course I am angry about it. BUT THATS NOT WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT!
I mean in prisons all over the middle east torture and abuse is the norm. I was not talking about americans! Understand?
AGAIN, let me say I am against any and all kinds of torture or abuse. I never said it was okay at all. If you thought so, let me say so now - I'm against ANY. Americans abusing Iraqis, or the other way around, or any party abusing another, period.
My only point from the beginning was they get tons of media, while our kids being abused in america do not get any, and the people in prisons in the middle east being tortured get none. I wish I could believe that all prisons in the middle east are humane, but I do not.
I find it hypocritical the middle east cries out at americans roughing up prisoners when its apparent just abuses happen to people in their own prisons.
But, as long as its an american doing the abuse to someone in the middle east, The whole fucking world gets their panties in a bunch.
And finally, let me say I really don't care. Why? Because a ton of people care about those abused prisoners for me. Not nearly enough care about those children in the US, Canada, and US/Canadian children sent overseas. Thats why that is my primary concern, not some people who already have the whole world in a fury over their abuse.
I wish the world would get as worked up about those kids in those 'treatment facilities'
Now, I'll repeat AGAIN so you don't assume, and pidgeon hole me so you can attack me and start some stupid flamewar.
1. I'm against all abuse.
2. I was not talking about americans being abused!
3. The hypocratsy was that middle easterners in middle-eastern prisons are more than likely abused, too, but nobody gets worked up over that. Its only when the USA gets caught doing it (but I still think its wrong) that they get in a frenzy over it. Its political. Someone in some piss-hole prison in a middle eastern country is being tortured and NOBODY is raising their voice to the degree they do when an american abuses a middle easterner.
4. I'm frustrated they get all this media when thousands and thousands of CHILDREN IN THE USA are being abused as bad if not worse, get almost NONE.
5. I don't really care because everyone else does, but nobody cares about those children and teenagers.
There, am I clear enough for you, anon? And just so you know I do not like Bush, or the GOP, and for that matter I don't agree with the democrats either.[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2004-05-11 02:34 ]
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Sounds like you and I are in agreement on most issues.
All the apples are falling from the same tree. The Bush tree. Whether it's kids here in treatment facilities or our children being sent to slaughter in a fictitious fight for democracy.
I'm sorry if I misunderstood anything.
Whatever. It makes me sick. Getting rid of Bush, Jeb and G.W. would be a good start in all these areas, home and abroad.
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when you come out with your guns saying "Shut the Fuck Up," etc. instead of articulating your stance...them are fightin words brother and it's clear why you might be misunderstood.
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Just saw the (R) rep from Oklahoma "James Imhoff" or something I forget his name but he said " These prisoners are not there for traffic violations..they are murderers etc." he went on basically to say that because they are against the US, they deserve what they get.
What an ass..If everything went by the way he thinks they should go...then all US pow's deserve to be tortured too...because they are the opposition.
I also saw that an American PoW was beheaded (and of course they filmed it and sent it to the press) as direct retaliation for the abuse.
It really doesnt matter how you feel about the war or government..Regardless who the PoWs are they deserve to be treated as PoW under Geneva convention. If you do not agree that they deserve at least the most basic dignities...then you support what straight did to us.
We were PoW's and the staff and parents justified the abuse "They are druggies,we are saving their lives, they must be broken of their druggie ways"
I remembered when the staff would say "You arent here for milk and cookies"
Thats what popped in my head when I heard the Ok. state rep saying "They arent here for traffic violations"
Torture and humiliation is not right even in times of war.
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On 2004-05-04 09:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Like it or not, the soldiers we idiots to take photos. I guarentee you that any American prisoner held by Iraqies would go far beyond humiliation.
You should see what Iraqie prisoners do to eachother....it goes far beyond what happens in our prisons."
That attitude is the whole basis of the problem..
Whats the 1st thing a little kid does when he gets in trouble for hitting another little kid?
"But, Moooom, he hit me 1st"
And what do we tell them?
Get my point???
It doesnt fucking matter what Iraq does to their PoWs...Iraq as a government doesnt even exist anymore..
Yes, Resistance Guerillas torture people...but we are not fucking Middle eastern guerillas!!!
We are the United States..we are supposedly there to stop the torture and opression..
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Hmmmm Humiliation or being beheaded???? gee what would be worse? Why don't you ask John MCcain how much of the Geneva convention was applied to his captivity. Its war , and not everybody plays fair sorry but that is reality
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yes. we all saw the news feed. You are missing the point. The point being that no matter who is the prisoner this is wrong.
Just a footnote that what happened to Iraqi's was more than humiliation and included rape, sodomy, murder and torture. You are just as bad as our government in trying to minimize it.
Horrific. I am equally outraged and disgusted. My heart goes out to the family of this 26 year old Kid. I found myself wishing it were the soldiers who committed the attrocities in their hands instead of some poor American who went over to try to make a buck because well let's face it the economy and the job market suck. So let's once again put the blame where it belongs and that is with our leaders who have neglected our own economy and spent billions and billions to fight this bogus war instead of making us safe, feeding our poor and looking out for our citizens. Let's consider who put so many people in harms way ?Bush and his cronies. Who have alienated us from almost all international support. Who don't give a rats ass about this kid or any Iraqi. Point is we shouldn't be there period. I hope they find those fucks who killed him. I also think the US needs to start taking some responsibility here and start acting like a civilized nation, from the top down to the very last soldier.
And further to shoot down any notion that the media is playing up any coverage of tortured Iraqi's as opposed to murdered Americans, it is clearly all over the place and untrue.
This is a tradegy no matter how you look for all sides, for all people, Iraqi or American.
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On 2004-05-11 12:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hmmmm Humiliation or being beheaded???? gee what would be worse? Why don't you ask John MCcain how much of the Geneva convention was applied to his captivity. Its war , and not everybody plays fair sorry but that is reality"
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I would like to add here an interesting point that I see over and over in political arguments...especially about this war.
War sympathizers tend to always end up hurling the same excuse about why what we are doing is justified. That being that we are protecting our country, our families, and we are liberating an oppressed people.
Usually followed by some sort of final, firm comment about how they really just dont give a shit as long as they are safe and their way of life is protected.
This one burns me every time. If our government allows our OWN PEOPLE AND CHILDREN to be subject to humiliation and abuse...what in all hells do you think they are capable of doing to other countries?
Unfortunately, I think alot of people hide behind the idea of patriotism and bravery in order to justify their own weakness about standing up for whats really right. Because whats going on over there has nothing to do with patriotism and bravery.
What chaps my hide even more is that what we see on TV and in the media is only what our heroic soldiers have been CAUGHT doing. Add that to the difficulty of getting any decent level of truth and reality out of the major media channels...and you have an ice-berg bigger than God that hasnt even thought about sticking its peak out of the water.
Warfare throughout all of human history has never been fair or pretty....and almost never for honorable intentions of the people fighting it. What makes us think this war is any different? Have we evolved? I doubt it.
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George Bush and his 'lieutenant', Tony Blair, believed that a swift military victory over Saddam would be followed by the establishment of a pro-Western regime. This would enable imperialism to use Iraq as a stepping stone to reconquer the Middle East and guarantee cheap oil to lubricate the world economy. Instead, oil supplies are being targeted by Iraqi insurgents and its price remains relatively high.
Nearly 700 coalition troops have been killed since the official end of the war. That's over 500 more than during the invasion. Thousands of Iraqis have also died - many from coalition fire. Rather than pacifying the population, the actions of coalition forces have generated a new and potent Iraqi nationalism which has bogged down the US and its allies in a political and military quagmire.
The ghost of the Vietnam war now looms larger as each day passes. As Patrick Cockburn in the Independent on Sunday put it: "The tide is going out for the US in Iraq. They were not able to use their military strength against Fallujah and Najaf. They have very little political support outside Kurdistan. They can no longer win. It may be one of the most extraordinary defeats in history."
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach him to use the Net and he won't bother you for weeks.
--Anonymous
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Well the good thing,is that everyone with half a brain can see George and his war are bad...and causing alot of problems (hello $4 a gallon gas to you same republicans that ran out and bought SUVs :lol: always got a kick out of dumb rich people)
So now we all see Georgey Woergy is a fucking idiot and greedy evil person..
NOW can we get a new Pres people? Or how much more death and destruction and idiocy do you wanna see from this idiot..
Weapons of Mass Destruction MY ASS!!!!
George W is a weapon of mass distruction !!!
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Look I found a bunch of Bush supporters and their all American views..Taxidermists..
http://www.taxidermy.net/forums/Industr ... BCC2C.html (http://www.taxidermy.net/forums/IndustryArticles/04/e/043C7BCC2C.html)