posted May 24, 2005 12:29 PM
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Well, I haven't kicked my son out. He's opted not to come home. I found out where he is staying and it is a safe place. I'm guessing he thinks I'm going to send him away in the middle of the night. I'm going to let him continue where he is for now.
The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie-deliberate, contrived, and dishonest-but the myth-persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
--John F. Kennedy, U.S. President
Q. I simply ask, why is PUNISHMENT the solution with regards to the narrow group of behaviors which encompass illegal drug use....?A.Pharmaceutical Business, both legal and illegal, run by the same people either way, money coming to the middle from both ends. Bush.
Bill Gallagher
The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
O'Brien, the apparatchik
Perhaps the sentiments contained in the following
pages, are not yet sufficiently fashionable to procure them
general favor; a long habit of not thinking a thing wrong,
gives it a superficial appearance of being right, and raises
at first a formidable outcry in defence of custom. But the
tumult soon subsides. Time makes more converts than reason.
Thomas Paine, Common Sense
On 2005-06-04 05:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am not concerned about my privacy or posting I am concerned though for the vulnerable folks and their postings - if you have a beef with Struggling Teens and what they do - that is fine you are entitled to that, but the parens who know no better or differently it is not fair to take it out on them is all I am saying - they don't know they are desperate and if you google anything it all leads to the same site.
So this is where they turn.
They hate me there trust me.
Andrea"
Well, I haven't kicked my son out. He's opted not to come home. I found out where he is staying and it is a safe place. I'm guessing he thinks I'm going to send him away in the middle of the night. I'm going to let him continue where he is for now.
As for sending him away again. It is possible, but then I wonder why should everyone else in the family have to suffer. I'm still in serious debt from the $100,000 we spent on him during the past couple of years. This time we would have to sell the house and four of us would be moving into an apartment all so he could get his act together until he turns 18. And then, who knows what would happen. So I'm trying to justify why he gets all the resources and the kids who are doing well get none.
As for sending him away again. It is possible, but then I wonder why should everyone else in the family have to suffer. I'm still in serious debt from the $100,000 we spent on him during the past couple of years. This time we would have to sell the house and four of us would be moving into an apartment all so he could get his act together until he turns 18. And then, who knows what would happen. So I'm trying to justify why he gets all the resources and the kids who are doing well get none.
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution.
--James Madison, U.S. President
On 2005-06-04 11:28:00, tommyfromhyde1 wrote:
"Quote
As for sending him away again. It is possible, but then I wonder why should everyone else in the family have to suffer. I'm still in serious debt from the $100,000 we spent on him during the past couple of years. This time we would have to sell the house and four of us would be moving into an apartment all so he could get his act together until he turns 18. And then, who knows what would happen. So I'm trying to justify why he gets all the resources and the kids who are doing well get none.
This is so typical of program parents. It's "how
dare you hate the program, we spent so much MONEY
on you, you ingrate!" I predict that that $100,000
will be a major issue between that kid and his
parents forever.During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."
--James Madison, U.S. President
It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion.
--Joseph Goebbels
On 2005-06-04 19:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am not saying I agree with struggling teens or their methods but who assigned you as the end all be all of people. Leave these parents alone if they want your advice then they will come here, or go post on the board there at struggling teens, I am truly sick of this, as adults you are acting like children yourselves. As I have said in the past if you don't like what is going on with programs get off your duffs and do something, don't sit on the internet all day and post bashing parents. Although I may not agree with some of the programs they place their children in or even how they get them there, I do think honestly they are trying to get their child help so they are not bad parents, they are loving parents who don't know where else to turn.
It seems to me the drama in some of the posts here shows traumatization and their is a thing called therapy I would highly reccomend and in a hurry."
On 2005-06-05 06:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I earnestly hope that at some point you can all make peace with your pasts, with your parents and move in a healthy happier direction."
On 2005-06-05 03:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I know that struggling teens is sensored I also know that most people here either are not qualified to make a decision for a parent, and to bash them, while whomever is sitting home on a computer with nothing better to do is insane. I would suggest that if people want change they find a better way to do it, where they are heard, and not seen as without any verasity. I have learned that it is okay to be assertive but never agressive. Over the top is not heard or recognized by the folks that need to hear the truth. Being a survivor of a horrific experience is never easy - I assure you of that but this board or any board on the internet is not the place to heal - trauma needs therapy, and if you are not healthy then you can't make a difference, and without names or specific posting it is quite obvious to me that a lot of people are not healthy enough to be giving advice. Secondly all parents including myself make mistakes so I am not buying that their are perfect parents so cut the _S really. Bottom line their are going to be a group of kids in this country - world for that matter that need the level of care in a residential school. You can't change that I can't change that, what I do work hard to change is that parents are honestly informed, and well informed when making these choices, know their rights and their kids rights. I really believe that some who are posting are going through alot due to whatever in their lives - if you are angry at your parents work this out with them, not some other kids parents at some point no matter what happened (and I am not lessening any alleged abuses in your lives) we all have to grow up - get past it - and act like adults.
Good luck."
I have learned that it is okay to be assertive but never agressive.
Being a survivor of a horrific experience is never easy - I assure you of that but this board or any board on the internet is not the place to heal - trauma needs therapy, and if you are not healthy then you can't make a difference, and without names or specific posting it is quite obvious to me that a lot of people are not healthy enough to be giving advice.
I know that struggling teens is sensored I also know that most people here either are not qualified to make a decision for a parent, and to bash them, while whomever is sitting home on a computer with nothing better to do is insane.
Bottom line their are going to be a group of kids in this country - world for that matter that need the level of care in a residential school.
I really believe that some who are posting are going through alot due to whatever in their lives - if you are angry at your parents work this out with them, not some other kids parents at some point no matter what happened (and I am not lessening any alleged abuses in your lives) we all have to grow up - get past it - and act like adults.
On 2005-06-05 08:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
""Obviously, you got out of your program too soon. Do you really think you are emotionally healthy and have a right to judge other people? Get a grip."
Bottom line their are going to be a group of kids in this country - world for that matter that need the level of care in a residential school.
On 2005-06-05 05:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My mother showed me this link and offered me the opportunity to respond. I was taken from my bed by escorts in May 2003 and sent to a wilderness program. I was furious, I tried to escape- almost killing myself and the escorts in the process. I hated my parents for doing this, but I hated them before I went, too. I was out of control and ruining my life. I had gone from a top student in an elite private school (having been kicked out of my prior elite private school) to a truant student at a terrible public school. I had a sick relationship with my girlfriend and was drinking and smoking pot. I was ruining my academic and athletic future. I didn't care. All I cared about was medicating the pain. I won't go into the whole background, but I WAS out of control and my parents had no ability to manage me. No one could have managed me. I lied to my therapist, even though I really liked him. I lied to everyone. I did whatever I wanted. So-imagine my shock when I was not able to escape from my escorts and I found myself in the Utah woods! I love nature and the outdoors and I liked the physical challenge of wilderness. I resisted the therapy for weeks. I wrote mean and angry letters to my parents. I was devastated at being separated from my girlfriend. Within days I realized I needed to be in wilderness, but I thought a few weeks would be fine to get my head straightened out. The therapists and my parents had other ideas. After about 6 weeks in wilderness I admitted, honestly,how screwed up I had become. I wrote volumes of journals. I opened up to my peers and the therapists. I agreed to transition to a therapeutic boarding school. I absolutely despised the school- I had very little freedom and they lied about the opportunities for me to pursue my sport. I thought the academics sucked, although it turned out there were a few great teachers and I did fine. I was furious at my parents all over and I planned to run away from the school. I actually helped some of my classmates escape (they were caught in 4 days and sent back to wilderness) but I didn't go. I took a different approach and made the most of my experience. I made my parents miserable for awhile, then we managed to work together on a plan for my future. I broke a number of rules at the school (hey, that's what I do!). I did not complete the program because I was admitted to a normal prep boarding school for fall 2004 and the therapeutic school made me leave early because I wasn't "committed". The school helped a lot of kids. Wilderness helped even more. Did they all "make it"? Not at all. The kids who have big addictions tend to go back to their old ways. What I learned was that I was costing myself my future. I treated people badly- my parents, my girlfriend, my teachers.... That needed to change. I came home a year ago and I am succeeding in every area of my life. I am sorry I lost a year, but it needed to happen. I hated every minute of the school, and resented being removed from my life for wilderness. I actually went back to wilderness for a second stint when I got in trouble at the therapeutic school. That offered me a good opportunity (I asked to go back to wilderness) to see the attitudes and problems of the new kids coming into the group. I laughed at how they sounded just like me the year before. I heard, "This is a mistake. I'll be home in 3 weeks." "Just because I smoked a little pot my parents sent me away." "I don't need school."
Well, guys. It all depends what you want from your life. My parents knew what I wanted, and they knew I had lost my way. I was angry and violent and they could not have me in their household. They saved me. I am still an arrogant jerk a lot of the time, but I am in a great high school and am headed for a great college. I learned some things about relationships. I'm still pretty bad at some things, but I have more tools than I did before treatment. So- stop generalizing about the horrors of escorts and programs. My escorts were actually cool guys and very professional once we got past me almost killing them."
On 2005-06-05 09:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The programs discussed on the ST board bear no resemblance to what you are describing on this site. The wilderness programs are not at all abusive. The kids hike and work in groups. They deal with tough therapeutic issues, but there is no abuse and their equipment is top of the line. The TBSs resemble nice prep schools. There are no dog cages and no pysical abuse. The kids are not brainwashed. The kids are safe and have the freedom to express their feelings and emotions. Perhaps you should do a little more research."
On 2005-06-05 08:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
""Hmm, maybe it's time we go and start picking off program advocates such as yourself? That might help, wouldn't you say?! So fuck off, and don't tell me how I should act. If you believe in therapy so much go enroll. Fuck you, I hope you leave this earth soon- we need less people like you here."
Obviously, you got out of your program too soon. Do you really think you are emotionally healthy and have a right to judge other people? Get a grip."
On 2005-06-05 10:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Have you BEEN to Hidden Lake, Carlbrook, Oakley, Second Nature Wilderness, Catherine Freer, Soltrek or any of the other top programs? "
On 2005-06-05 11:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Second Nature is not abusive. I know many families who have had positive experiences. Same with Hidden Lake. You have no idea what you are talking about. I'm out of here."
On 2005-06-03 19:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I will say this it is not appropriate in my opinon to cut/copy/paste from another list or board it would be better appropriate to use a link to the board. The folks that turn to them looking for help are desperate and I know if it were me I would be very angry at this cut/copy/paste thing not to say I agree with the folks who run the stuff there, I am always posting about escorts, ed consultants, programs that are not licensed etc., and get a lot of flack because of it, but I keep doing it as it is the truth - I don't do it in an offensive way and I don't bash the parents as they are desperate.
Andrea
pfrr.org"
On 2005-06-05 06:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"She is the first to admit that she would be dead, pregnant, homeless or severely drug addicted had we not removed her from her drugging self abusive lifestyle."
On 2005-06-05 11:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-06-05 06:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"She is the first to admit that she would be dead, pregnant, homeless or severely drug addicted had we not removed her from her drugging self abusive lifestyle."
Do you think it's coincidence that all graduates say this? Why do you think this mantra is ingrained into each child so thoroughly? To reassure retarded parents such as yourself. :tup: "
On 2005-06-05 05:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My mother showed me this link and offered me the opportunity to respond. I was taken from my bed by escorts in May 2003 and sent to a wilderness program. I was furious, I tried to escape- almost killing myself and the escorts in the process. I hated my parents for doing this, but I hated them before I went, too. I was out of control and ruining my life. I had gone from a top student in an elite private school (having been kicked out of my prior elite private school) to a truant student at a terrible public school. I had a sick relationship with my girlfriend and was drinking and smoking pot. I was ruining my academic and athletic future. I didn't care. All I cared about was medicating the pain. I won't go into the whole background, but I WAS out of control and my parents had no ability to manage me. No one could have managed me. I lied to my therapist, even though I really liked him. I lied to everyone. I did whatever I wanted. So-imagine my shock when I was not able to escape from my escorts and I found myself in the Utah woods! I love nature and the outdoors and I liked the physical challenge of wilderness. I resisted the therapy for weeks. I wrote mean and angry letters to my parents. I was devastated at being separated from my girlfriend. Within days I realized I needed to be in wilderness, but I thought a few weeks would be fine to get my head straightened out. The therapists and my parents had other ideas. After about 6 weeks in wilderness I admitted, honestly,how screwed up I had become. I wrote volumes of journals. I opened up to my peers and the therapists. I agreed to transition to a therapeutic boarding school. I absolutely despised the school- I had very little freedom and they lied about the opportunities for me to pursue my sport. I thought the academics sucked, although it turned out there were a few great teachers and I did fine. I was furious at my parents all over and I planned to run away from the school. I actually helped some of my classmates escape (they were caught in 4 days and sent back to wilderness) but I didn't go. I took a different approach and made the most of my experience. I made my parents miserable for awhile, then we managed to work together on a plan for my future. I broke a number of rules at the school (hey, that's what I do!). I did not complete the program because I was admitted to a normal prep boarding school for fall 2004 and the therapeutic school made me leave early because I wasn't "committed". The school helped a lot of kids. Wilderness helped even more. Did they all "make it"? Not at all. The kids who have big addictions tend to go back to their old ways. What I learned was that I was costing myself my future. I treated people badly- my parents, my girlfriend, my teachers.... That needed to change. I came home a year ago and I am succeeding in every area of my life. I am sorry I lost a year, but it needed to happen. I hated every minute of the school, and resented being removed from my life for wilderness. I actually went back to wilderness for a second stint when I got in trouble at the therapeutic school. That offered me a good opportunity (I asked to go back to wilderness) to see the attitudes and problems of the new kids coming into the group. I laughed at how they sounded just like me the year before. I heard, "This is a mistake. I'll be home in 3 weeks." "Just because I smoked a little pot my parents sent me away." "I don't need school."
Well, guys. It all depends what you want from your life. My parents knew what I wanted, and they knew I had lost my way. I was angry and violent and they could not have me in their household. They saved me. I am still an arrogant jerk a lot of the time, but I am in a great high school and am headed for a great college. I learned some things about relationships. I'm still pretty bad at some things, but I have more tools than I did before treatment. So- stop generalizing about the horrors of escorts and programs. My escorts were actually cool guys and very professional once we got past me almost killing them."
On 2005-06-05 06:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well I was "invited" to view your forum. I belong to strugglingteens. I am one of those insane parents who has placed a child long term in residential treatment.
I am struck by the anger, the language and the condemnation thrown in our direction.
I am sorry if you have had abusive experiences at the hands of a therapeutic school. :sad: I am also sorry that my daughter required more help than I was able to provide her with. :sad: Unlike many of you, my daughter is not angry with her placement. She is the first to admit that she would be dead, pregnant, homeless or severely drug addicted had we not removed her from her drugging self abusive lifestyle. That is all I need to know... that I have made a loving decision!!
I earnestly hope that at some point you can all make peace with your pasts, with your parents and move in a healthy happier direction.
A loving parent."
Invitation to Dev's website??
Jena
Administrator
Member # 1044 posted June 05, 2005 12:42 PM
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I also got one, but didn't bother to click on it. Now that I see that he is copying material from this forum, I will have to do something about it.
Lon gets rather mad at people who use his website to further their own. I will let him know this is going on immediately.
Jena
mose
Member # 2980
posted June 05, 2005 06:59 AM
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He is a sick twisted fellow.
What a tragic way for him to live his small petty life by harrassing parents on the internet.
I wonder if it?s legal for him to cut and paste your words from this site and post publicly on another board.
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Posts: 798 | From: New York City | Registered: Jul 2002 | Logged: 66.108.212.226 |
On 2005-06-05 13:16:00, Dr. Frankiln wrote:
"Also this forum on this board is being discussed now on the strugging teens board
http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=001054"
On 2005-06-05 06:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well I was "invited" to view your forum. I belong to strugglingteens. I am one of those insane parents who has placed a child long term in residential treatment.
I am struck by the anger, the language and the condemnation thrown in our direction.
I am sorry if you have had abusive experiences at the hands of a therapeutic school. :sad: I am also sorry that my daughter required more help than I was able to provide her with. :sad: Unlike many of you, my daughter is not angry with her placement. She is the first to admit that she would be dead, pregnant, homeless or severely drug addicted had we not removed her from her drugging self abusive lifestyle. That is all I need to know... that I have made a loving decision!!
I earnestly hope that at some point you can all make peace with your pasts, with your parents and move in a healthy happier direction.
A loving parent."
On 2005-06-05 15:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Again to cut/copy/paste is wrong whether you agree with folks or not it is wrong just plain wrong."
The nature of psychological compulsion is such that those who act under constraint remain under the impression that they are acting on their own initiative. The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people. His servitude is strictly objective.
--Brave New World Revisited, Aldous Huxley, 1958
On 2005-06-05 15:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This is Andrea - and a troll? I will not defend myself to any of you nor what I do the ones who are here who know about me and what I do I have great respect for - as we all have our opinions and have gotten past a lot of struggles. Again to cut/copy/paste is wrong whether you agree with folks or not it is wrong just plain wrong. Again, your opinions matter this is America - but I do not nor should anyone bash a parent who is desperatly seeking help for their child ever. At least they are trying - unlike a lot of other parents I know who just abandon their children to the state! Someone has to come to some sort of truce here and I reccomend and will so on struggling teens that this not keep going on - to continue to feed into a thread like this is a waste of time and energy. (as I am typing myself) this is the last message I will post here period, you all are out of control. Good luck with your ventures in life, be safe and healthy.
Andrea"
We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication.[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-06-05 18:07 ]
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
On 2005-06-05 14:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-06-05 06:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well I was "invited" to view your forum. I belong to strugglingteens. I am one of those insane parents who has placed a child long term in residential treatment.
I am struck by the anger, the language and the condemnation thrown in our direction.
I am sorry if you have had abusive experiences at the hands of a therapeutic school. :nworthy:
On 2005-06-05 15:08:00, krystene wrote:
"This is ridiculous. Getting angry because Dev is cutting and pasting? Don't these people think they should get angry about something that has more merit? Good grief!
Is cutting and pasting illegal! I can't believe I just read that. Dev when you get taken to jail for cutting and pasting I'll be the 1st to bond you out. :nworthy:
On 2005-06-05 15:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"This is Andrea - and a troll? I will not defend myself to any of you nor what I do the ones who are here who know about me and what I do I have great respect for - as we all have our opinions and have gotten past a lot of struggles. Again to cut/copy/paste is wrong whether you agree with folks or not it is wrong just plain wrong. Again, your opinions matter this is America - but I do not nor should anyone bash a parent who is desperatly seeking help for their child ever. At least they are trying - unlike a lot of other parents I know who just abandon their children to the state! Someone has to come to some sort of truce here and I reccomend and will so on struggling teens that this not keep going on - to continue to feed into a thread like this is a waste of time and energy. (as I am typing myself) this is the last message I will post here period, you all are out of control. Good luck with your ventures in life, be safe and healthy.
Andrea"
On 2005-06-05 20:38:00, Devlin wrote:
"in true struggling teens.com fashion it you dont like the post or agree with the post or topic make it disappear! This post was just taken from struggling teens.
Do you support drug prohibition because it finances criminals at home or because it finances terrorists abroad?
--Anonymous
On 2005-06-05 23:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If your best friend was stealing from you and doing drugs non stop, would you help her? What I don't hear on this board is any personal responsibiity for actions. And a willingness to suffer the consequences. If you were using drugs, stealing, not pulling your own weight, why should anyone put up with that type of behavior? I don't want to be around drug users, drug dealers, thieves, folks who cuss me, folks who don't want to work. That includes my own children.
No one has the unfettered right to abuse another human being and that includes your parents.
I get the feeling that some of you feel that you can stay at your parent's house, do whatever the hell you want and then not expect your parents to say a word. Just put up with it till you either grow up and as Krystene said "I got older and I started making different choices through trial and error basically." I'm sorry but I didn't sign up for that as a parent.
Take some responsbility people for your actions and then be willing to suffer the consequences. "
On 2005-06-05 23:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If your best friend was stealing from you and doing drugs non stop, would you help her? What I don't hear on this board is any personal responsibiity for actions. And a willingness to suffer the consequences. If you were using drugs, stealing, not pulling your own weight, why should anyone put up with that type of behavior? I don't want to be around drug users, drug dealers, thieves, folks who cuss me, folks who don't want to work. That includes my own children.
No one has the unfettered right to abuse another human being and that includes your parents.
I get the feeling that some of you feel that you can stay at your parent's house, do whatever the hell you want and then not expect your parents to say a word. Just put up with it till you either grow up and as Krystene said "I got older and I started making different choices through trial and error basically." I'm sorry but I didn't sign up for that as a parent.
Take some responsbility people for your actions and then be willing to suffer the consequences. "
On 2005-06-05 23:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If your best friend was stealing from you and doing drugs non stop, would you help her? What I don't hear on this board is any personal responsibiity for actions. And a willingness to suffer the consequences. If you were using drugs, stealing, not pulling your own weight, why should anyone put up with that type of behavior? I don't want to be around drug users, drug dealers, thieves, folks who cuss me, folks who don't want to work. That includes my own children.
No one has the unfettered right to abuse another human being and that includes your parents.
I get the feeling that some of you feel that you can stay at your parent's house, do whatever the hell you want and then not expect your parents to say a word. Just put up with it till you either grow up and as Krystene said "I got older and I started making different choices through trial and error basically." I'm sorry but I didn't sign up for that as a parent.
Take some responsbility people for your actions and then be willing to suffer the consequences. "
If you were using drugs, stealing, not pulling your own weight, why should anyone put up with that type of behavior? I don't want to be around drug users, drug dealers, thieves, folks who cuss me, folks who don't want to work. That includes my own children.
On 2005-06-06 11:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
Not all parents just send their kids away for smoking a little weed or drinking a little alchohol. Crystal meth and oxcy are scourges and need some serious intervention.
When Plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in a society, they create for themselves in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
--Fredric Bastiat
There are terrible programs and there are good ones. It is simplistic to lay all the blame on the foot of the parents, children know right from wrong at an early age and are never to young to accept some responsibility for their actions.
On 2005-06-05 09:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The programs discussed on the ST board bear no resemblance to what you are describing on this site. The wilderness programs are not at all abusive. The kids hike and work in groups. They deal with tough therapeutic issues, but there is no abuse and their equipment is top of the line. The TBSs resemble nice prep schools. There are no dog cages and no pysical abuse. The kids are not brainwashed. The kids are safe and have the freedom to express their feelings and emotions. Perhaps you should do a little more research."
The clearest way into the Universe is through a forest wilderness.
-- John Muir
We parents today are afraid to let our kids fail; sometimes failure can be a learning experience.
On 2005-06-05 13:16:00, Dr. Frankiln wrote:
Also this forum on this board is being discussed now on the strugging teens board
http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ ... 2;t=001054 (http://www.strugglingteens.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=001054)
We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth...
For my part, I am willing to know the whole truth;
to know the worst, and to provide for it.
--Patrick Henry
On 2005-06-05 23:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If your best friend was stealing from you and doing drugs non stop, would you help her? What I don't hear on this board is any personal responsibiity for actions. And a willingness to suffer the consequences. If you were using drugs, stealing, not pulling your own weight, why should anyone put up with that type of behavior? I don't want to be around drug users, drug dealers, thieves, folks who cuss me, folks who don't want to work. That includes my own children.
No one has the unfettered right to abuse another human being and that includes your parents.
I get the feeling that some of you feel that you can stay at your parent's house, do whatever the hell you want and then not expect your parents to say a word. Just put up with it till you either grow up and as Krystene said "I got older and I started making different choices through trial and error basically." I'm sorry but I didn't sign up for that as a parent.
Take some responsbility people for your actions and then be willing to suffer the consequences. "
They used to burn witches. Today we laugh at them. Today we jail people for marijuana. Tomorrow they'll laugh at us.
--Robert "Rosie" Rowbotham
On 2005-06-06 11:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No one gets through life unscathed, in the end we are all responsible for the choices we make. To blame only the parents and not to take an honest look at one's own behavior, is doing one a disservice.
We have all suffered trauma, it's how we chose to respond that differs. I had a terrible upbringing, but I didn't chose to do drugs, steal, be disrespectful.
There are terrible programs and there are good ones. It is simplistic to lay all the blame on the foot of the parents, children know right from wrong at an early age and are never to young to accept some responsibility for their actions.
No parent is perfect. Some are self absorbed; some are not. All make mistakes, but blaming isn't going to solve the problem. Teens will search for themselves and who they are and try to find their place in the world. Parents should try to be supportive; but parents also have the right to try and stop harmful behavior. Just like when I child is a toddler and you hold their hand to cross the street; so it is with the parent of a teen. Some kids have problems so deep that they need therapy. For some in patient treatment is the only way. Not all parents just send their kids away for smoking a little weed or drinking a little alchohol. Crystal meth and oxcy are scourges and need some serious intervention.
There is a lot of pain, but holding on to it, will never allow you to become a healthy and functioning adult. I pray that each of you who has had a bad experience find a way to release the hurt and anger. By doing so, you could be an example, an encouragement for others.
Peace."
On 2005-06-06 13:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
I would like to hear some suggestions from those who had problems as teens as to what parents could do. And I don't mean the casual use of weed or the sneaking a drink. I mean hard core drug usage, like meth or oxcy and criminal behavior, like stealing and burglary. What if a parent has tried everything, like counseling, talking, taking away privileges etc and nothing has worked? What if the teen then becomes suicidal?
I am open to listen and open to suggestions.
When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
...it is worth discussing radical changes, not in the expectation that they will be adopted promptly but for two other reasons. One is to construct an ideal goal, so that incremental changes can be judged by whether they move the institutional structure toward or away from that ideal. The other reason is very different. It is so that if a crisis requiring or facilitating radical change does arise, alternatives will be available that have been carefully developed and fully explored."
Milton Friedman
Have you considered that system of holy lies and pious frauds that has raged and triumphed for 1500 years.
--John Adams, U.S. President
I don't go lookin' for trouble. I just keep a little in a box should someone come by who is.
--Bill Warbis
On 2005-06-06 13:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am neither lazy cruel or stupid. I just know that in some cases, it isn't all the fault of the parents, nor is it all the fault of the kids. I just feel like we need to expect more from kids, than just the "love will make it better". Life is tough, but I think some permissive attitudes from parents is making the problem worse for teens.
Just 3 generations ago, you had 16 years going to war in WWII. Even my generation, teens were expected to graduate from high school and either get a job, go to college or join the military. My parents did not instill in me the expectation that they had to support me past high school, nor did they instill in me the expectation that it was their job to fix all of my problems. Some of them they let me figure out on my own and let me fail. We parents today are afraid to let our kids fail; sometimes failure can be a learning experience.
I am sorry that some people have had horrific experiences. No doubt there is abuse. But I would have to believe that not all programs are abusive.
I would like to hear some suggestions from those who had problems as teens as to what parents could do. And I don't mean the casual use of weed or the sneaking a drink. I mean hard core drug usage, like meth or oxcy and criminal behavior, like stealing and burglary. What if a parent has tried everything, like counseling, talking, taking away privileges etc and nothing has worked? What if the teen then becomes suicidal?
I am open to listen and open to suggestions."
On 2005-06-06 13:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
I just feel like we need to expect more from kids.
Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
Momofboyz2x
Member # 4610
posted June 05, 2005 07:52 PM
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Hi Kelly. Can you go back and delete your first entry that started this thread and then the whole thread will go away? Just thought that maybe that would make the link to this thread not work that they have posted on their website. It might be worth a shot. We don't need to give them any more info or responses than we already have. They're just trying to "bait" us and we shouldn't be giving them the satisfaction or our time in responding to them.
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Posts: 112 | From: Oklahoma | Registered: Feb 2005 | Logged: 24.253.218.159 | "
To say the drug war is a failure is like saying the Hindenburg was short a few fire extinguishers.
Carl Hiassen
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
--Unanimous
I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way.
--Robert Frost, American poet
I may not understand the exact physiology of how it works... I just know that he is less symptomatic than he was many months ago. In my opinion it is less important "how" it works... the proof is in the pudding.
When elephants ? ght, it is the grass that suffers.
Kikuyu proverb
On 2005-06-15 16:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I understand that many, many, many teens experience abuse at the hands of "therapeutic" programs. But, is it beyond the realm of possibility that there are good programs that help kids over the hump? Is is beyond the realm of possibility that there are caring, compassionate professional that are led to minister to our youth.
Please don't have the misconception that I shipped my kid off because he smoked a little weed or got wasted one too many times. I have tried to get help for this kid since he was 10 years old. I don't feel I need to justify my decision to my son, myself or anyone else. My point is to try and help you understand that many parents who make the heartbreaking, gut wrenching decision to place their kids do so as a last ditch effort to save them from themselves. I agree that many parents ship kids off because they don't want to deal with normal teenage angst. But there are many of us that have tried everything, everything that we know of to try and help.
My mother in law lost 2(that's two) teenagers to suicide. When I talked with her prior to this decision, she said she wished she would have had an opportunity to intervene before her kids pulled the trigger. When my adolescent began suicide attempts I knew he needed a loving, healing experience. Not brainwashing. Not wit holding food and water. Not punitive consequences. Not abuse. That is wrong, wrong, wrong. And adults that prescribe to that kind of treatment are criminal. Period.
My desire is to understand your perspectives. I will not judge. I will not condemn. In return, it would be nice to have understand my perspective. If you choose not too, I respect that too.
I am sorry for the abuse many of you suffered. It makes me ill to read some of your stories. And yet, I am at a loss for what else I could have done for my child. "
When my adolescent began suicide attempts I knew he needed a loving, healing experience. Not brainwashing. Not wit holding food and water. Not punitive consequences. Not abuse. That is wrong, wrong, wrong. And adults that prescribe to that kind of treatment are criminal. Period.
It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him.
--Arthur C. Clarke, author
All religions have been made by men.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
On 2005-06-15 16:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I understand that many, many, many teens experience abuse at the hands of "therapeutic" programs. But, is it beyond the realm of possibility that there are good programs that help kids over the hump? Is is beyond the realm of possibility that there are caring, compassionate professional that are led to minister to our youth.
Please don't have the misconception that I shipped my kid off because he smoked a little weed or got wasted one too many times. I have tried to get help for this kid since he was 10 years old. I don't feel I need to justify my decision to my son, myself or anyone else. My point is to try and help you understand that many parents who make the heartbreaking, gut wrenching decision to place their kids do so as a last ditch effort to save them from themselves. I agree that many parents ship kids off because they don't want to deal with normal teenage angst. But there are many of us that have tried everything, everything that we know of to try and help.
My mother in law lost 2(that's two) teenagers to suicide. When I talked with her prior to this decision, she said she wished she would have had an opportunity to intervene before her kids pulled the trigger. When my adolescent began suicide attempts I knew he needed a loving, healing experience. Not brainwashing. Not wit holding food and water. Not punitive consequences. Not abuse. That is wrong, wrong, wrong. And adults that prescribe to that kind of treatment are criminal. Period.
My desire is to understand your perspectives. I will not judge. I will not condemn. In return, it would be nice to have understand my perspective. If you choose not too, I respect that too.
I am sorry for the abuse many of you suffered. It makes me ill to read some of your stories. And yet, I am at a loss for what else I could have done for my child. "
On 2005-06-15 21:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My only, true answer to those, that do not believe in these prograns, is......... Shut the hell up until you experience what it is trully to be out there. Yes, some of you, say.... we have been there........ been there when??? never!!! Do you have childen, of you own?? I doubt it, cause of the way you speak, like you have no education about this whatsoever!! maybe, you were, that child, and it sounds like nothing more like a rebellion answer as is. Grow up, and stay in you sweet site, leave the rest, to do what they have to do!!! Unless, you are going to raise that child, shut your mouths, and let the parents do, what they have to. *NOTICE* there is no need to use curse words, as many of you seem to need to do to survive. Let everyone live their life the way they need to, and once again, unless you are going to support and raise that child........ keep you comments to yourself!!!!!"
On 2005-06-15 21:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"My only, true answer to those, that do not believe in these prograns, is......... Shut the hell up until you experience what it is trully to be out there. Yes, some of you, say.... we have been there........ been there when??? never!!! Do you have childen, of you own?? I doubt it, cause of the way you speak, like you have no education about this whatsoever!! maybe, you were, that child, and it sounds like nothing more like a rebellion answer as is. Grow up, and stay in you sweet site, leave the rest, to do what they have to do!!! Unless, you are going to raise that child, shut your mouths, and let the parents do, what they have to. *NOTICE* there is no need to use curse words, as many of you seem to need to do to survive. Let everyone live their life the way they need to, and once again, unless you are going to support and raise that child........ keep you comments to yourself!!!!!"
On 2005-06-15 19:58:00, webcrawler wrote:
I am very uncomfortable with kids being sent away against their will and the tactics used to break the kids down and rebuild them. Yes, I find it very hard to trust ANY place that does this because of my own experiences. I would also hope that you are not one of those parents that embraces the tough love mentality. How a parent can do that stuff to their kids is heartbreaking.
On 2005-06-15 19:58:00, webcrawler wrote:
I am very uncomfortable with kids being sent away against their will and the tactics used to break the kids down and rebuild them. Yes, I find it very hard to trust ANY place that does this because of my own experiences. I would also hope that you are not one of those parents that embraces the tough love mentality. How a parent can do that stuff to their kids is heartbreaking.
On 2005-06-15 19:58:00, webcrawler wrote:
I am very uncomfortable with kids being sent away against their will and the tactics used to break the kids down and rebuild them. Yes, I find it very hard to trust ANY place that does this because of my own experiences. I would also hope that you are not one of those parents that embraces the tough love mentality. How a parent can do that stuff to their kids is heartbreaking.
Actually, my child recognized his own need for intensive therapeutic intervention. At his request we tried inpatient/outpatient therapy locally and even a adolescent psychiatric facility following a suicide attempt. You know their philosophy. Slap a mental illness diagnosis on all kids, medicate them into submission and send them home. Garbage!! Garbage!! Garbage!!
On 2005-06-16 10:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Truly voluntary treatment, where the kid can leave if the treatment is not what he thought it was going to be, is a whole 'nother ball of wax from involuntary treatment.
Exit Plan:
The main thing is not to reveal information about yourself, especially not emotional secrets which they will use against you at seminars. I've seen people break down under the pressure many times in seminars. You know how it goes...
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =80#110379 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10376&forum=44&start=80#110379)
If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
On 2005-06-16 22:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The common denominator with almost all the troubled teens is they are raised in a broken family. I hate to say it but most of them are raised by there mother. If you check in the prison system, you will find the same thing. Also, the families I have found who have problems are very sucessful in there careers and very poor at raising children. Leads me to think that they put more effort into themselves than there family. How else could they afford to send them to one of these places. To the yuppy parents, It's just another expense. Like a new car, or a boat. Hey, and something to impress there friends at the countryclub that there kid is now in a "private school" "
On 2005-06-24 08:27:00, OverLordd wrote:
"I just pinged the struggeling teens board, and here is what I found out.
Apprently this is a board for people who agree with each other only, we cannot troll them as they troll us apprently, because they are seemingly in a emotionally fragle state. ( Hell I would be to if I decided to hurt my kid) They require log ins, and registration, I would register and blast them, if I was sure that they wold not pull it down, lock me out, and most likely call my parents (hehe, They got my back enough, I dont need to bother them with somthing else) These people are terrable, they dont alow another view, and they don't let others speak. What should be done about this."
KareninDallas
Member
Member # 3697
Welcome back. Your son sounds SO much like mine, so you might want to do a search on my old posts. Our son was taken by escorts to wilderness on May 30, 2003. He spent 9 weeks in wilderness- yes, they do an excellent job of recommending the "next step". Our son then went to a TBS, where he was angry and resistant. He, too, is a bright kid who was throwing his future away before we took the steps we took. Plus, our lives were unbearable with him home. We were in constant fear for his safety. Also, drugs and alcohol were not the core problem. As you said, it was defiance, anger, skipping school, unhealthy relationships.....
If I were you I would consider an immediate wilderness placement. You can then take a deep breath and let the experts work with him for awhile. Feel free to send me a message or email for more information. Oh- our son has been out of his program for 14 months now and is doing great. Karen
Dadrod
Member
Member # 4316
Karen's recommendation of a good wilderness program is a sound one. There are some programs that would prove effective, after which another placement is probably in order.
In general, wilderness programs will suggest at least the kind of further placement they recommend. Some may recommend a program affiliated with the same parent company, but you're not bound by it.
If you know your son is comsuming weed and beer, you should assume he is using more drugs
Clearly, you do have time to do something effective for your son - whether he wishes to cooperate or not. You'll find good support for doing so right here.
--------------------
Rod [email protected]
On 2005-07-22 17:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Does Mrs. D.VA still post at struggling teens?
If I recall correctly, she is a PURE parent volunteer who used to live in VA but moved to Florida?
"
It's a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word! --
--Andrew Jackson
On 2005-07-22 23:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you all need to get passed your issues with mom and dad. accept that they sucked as parents. maybe you didnt deserve to be in a boarding school but some kids do."
However, theyre just as abusive as a WWASPS program, and she makes 200K~ year (see the WWASPS vs PURE transcripts) getting kickbacks from the programs she referrs to.
On 2005-07-23 07:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
However, theyre just as abusive as a WWASPS program, and she makes 200K~ year (see the WWASPS vs PURE transcripts) getting kickbacks from the programs she referrs to.
lets not forget why program trolls are so intense.
"
It seems to me that if you have to resort to calling someone a fucking moron for disagreeing with your childish opinions, you probably could use a class on maturity. Teens being teens? I think not. Having sex with multiple partners? Staying out all night? And refusing to change your behaviour. Sorry. Bye bye. You have choices to make and are old enough at 15 to make the right ones. Poor Lexie. Molested. Who wasn't? Get over it and move on. You don't have to "act out" (putting it mildly) that's ridiculous. I work very hard for my money, and if my kid was getting high on it and telling me to fuck off, I think I'd take that for about a minute. Where does it say that "teens can just act like teens" and parents have to put up with it? Now that is moronic. Obviously you've put your parents through hell. I only hoped THEY survived it. I'm sure they treated you like shit, giving you a curfew, and hoping you'd be smart about drugs and sex. Gosh. You're right. Put them in a jail. Ignorant. Obviously you don't have a child of your own. You don't grasp the terror of a child staying out all night or strung out on drugs. You just don't get it at all. Have fun with your fire. Hopefully, you won't be burning my house down.
J
On 2005-07-23 07:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-07-22 23:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you all need to get passed your issues with mom and dad. accept that they sucked as parents. maybe you didnt deserve to be in a boarding school but some kids do."
I have a feeling your entire assumption about the people on both sites is incorrect. Does your brain need you to try and simplify things to properly understand what is going on around you? Sure seems like it.
- someone who doesnt fall in any of your categories"
if i had to chose sides however, people on this site seem inordinately bitter, to the extent they will get 50 lines of anectdotal evidence, and slam these lost parents as if they had a better grasp of what was going on.
On 2005-07-25 17:39:00, dougm wrote:
"The entire basis of this forum relies on some myth that it's solely the parents fault, their intentions are to maintain control over their children, and the children, regardless of their actions, are not to be held accountable. I'll have to agree with the assessment above that many of the anti-program people on this forum still have a bone to pick with their parents. Sorry you got stuck with bad parents, but to claim that the intention of all parents sending their children to wilderness therapy is nothing more than just fulfilling their nostalgic fantasies of complete domination over their "little babies" is non-sense.
"
On 2005-07-25 18:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-07-25 17:39:00, dougm wrote:
"The entire basis of this forum relies on some myth that it's solely the parents fault, their intentions are to maintain control over their children, and the children, regardless of their actions, are not to be held accountable. I'll have to agree with the assessment above that many of the anti-program people on this forum still have a bone to pick with their parents. Sorry you got stuck with bad parents, but to claim that the intention of all parents sending their children to wilderness therapy is nothing more than just fulfilling their nostalgic fantasies of complete domination over their "little babies" is non-sense.
"
Why do locked boarding schools make kids go through a wilderness therapy program prior to admission?
M.O.N.E.Y. and it helps to break the kid's spirit prior to ending up in a locked institution.
SICK!
"
On 2005-07-25 17:39:00, dougm wrote:
"The entire basis of this forum relies on some myth that it's solely the parents fault, their intentions are to maintain control over their children, and the children, regardless of their actions, are not to be held accountable. I'll have to agree with the assessment above that many of the anti-program people on this forum still have a bone to pick with their parents. Sorry you got stuck with bad parents, but to claim that the intention of all parents sending their children to wilderness therapy is nothing more than just fulfilling their nostalgic fantasies of complete domination over their "little babies" is non-sense.
"
On 2005-07-25 20:01:00, dougm wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-07-25 18:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-07-25 17:39:00, dougm wrote:
"The entire basis of this forum relies on some myth that it's solely the parents fault, their intentions are to maintain control over their children, and the children, regardless of their actions, are not to be held accountable. I'll have to agree with the assessment above that many of the anti-program people on this forum still have a bone to pick with their parents. Sorry you got stuck with bad parents, but to claim that the intention of all parents sending their children to wilderness therapy is nothing more than just fulfilling their nostalgic fantasies of complete domination over their "little babies" is non-sense.
"
Why do locked boarding schools make kids go through a wilderness therapy program prior to admission?
M.O.N.E.Y. and it helps to break the kid's spirit prior to ending up in a locked institution.
SICK!
"
Break the kid's spirit? Most of the kids that left during my program had much more confidence in themselves before they arrived. "
On 2005-07-26 07:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"VERY FEW programs are 2 months.. that's very short in fact. I was in for over a year, a lot of people here were in for 2-3 years or more. "
On 2005-07-25 20:01:00, dougm wrote:
"Break the kid's spirit? Most of the kids that left during my program had much more confidence in themselves before they arrived."
On 2005-07-25 20:15:00, The Liger wrote:
"Not all parents have bad intentions when sending their kids to wilderness therapy. In fact, most have good intentions. It's just that they buy into a bunch of false promises and quick fixes rather than work things out the old-fashioned way.
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
Mark Twain
Religion is all bunk.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
On 2005-07-25 23:01:00, bandit1978 wrote:
"Liger, you are from Kailua? I spent 2 weeks in Kailua in June (my sister did her physical therapy internship there). "
On 2005-07-27 05:44:00, bandit1978 wrote:
"Arent there 2 parts of Hawaii called Kailua? I was in the town on Oahu- very small town, I couldn't find any organic lettuce or spinach, or anti-biotic free meat, so instead I ate 3 quarts of ice cream + 1 dozen cupcakes (over 2 weeks). It was beautiful and surreal. "
On 2005-07-27 05:49:00, bandit1978 wrote:
"Liger- can you bring me my chapstick?"