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Messages - HydeFan

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1
Hyde Schools / Advice to Parents Considering Hyde School
« on: October 12, 2005, 05:17:00 AM »
My personal opinion is that I have always thought Hyde should have a closer working relationship with the psychological community and that a least some of the students needed more professional 1-1 help.  

In addition to help, what the pros are doing outside the gates should be integrated into the schools approach to the students inside the gates (and with the parents as well).

But the truth is that I actually don't know the details of Hyde's historical or current use of the psychological community.  

Annecdotally, however, I think this is an age old problem that goes back to Joe's relationship (antipathy?) with the psychological community.

2
Hyde Schools / NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS
« on: October 11, 2005, 02:36:00 PM »
Folks, Ginger's name is public.  Your, mine, the rest of ours, ain't.

I am actually less concerned with people's names than I am with the backfill of their story that gets left out in the retelling.  

And without knowing bias, its hard to assess accuracy of comments, especially subjective ones.

I tried to use some objective statements to show at least some reasonable level of distorion was occurring.  

That got twisted to the point of suggesting I support rape. (No doubt the next post will actually accuse me of actually committing rapes.)

Either way, believe it or not, I am very sympathetic to real abuse and am fascinated by what Ginger has started here (not necessarily re: Hyde but the overall theme), and I can only imagine there is a powerful story behind that.

3
Hyde Schools / Hyde Ethics
« on: October 11, 2005, 02:30:00 PM »
How do you know it wasn't reported?  

You all keep reporting the same thing over and over, but you simply have no way of knowing what was and wasn't reported.

Or why.

THE VICTIM COMES FIRST.  It is their choice.

4
Hyde Schools / NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS
« on: October 11, 2005, 11:02:00 AM »
I think your presence on a Hyde board is irrelevant....or better stated 99% of your posts.

But as arrogant and heartless as you think I am, I posted right from the beginning my strongest sympathies for any Seed survivor.  One of my best friends is, and his experience was something that Congress should know about and regulate.

Based on a fairly extensive comparison, however, I found that the Seed (and the extremely abusive programs) are off the charts comparred to Hyde.

I have no doubt Hyde may not work for many.  But I also know many that it worked for, and I also know Hyde does not fit many of the definitions of the types of groups that I think are more clearly abusive (LGATs for example).  There are similarities, but if you had to map them out, I think depending on when in their history you are talking about, they probably fall closer to the line between actually being wonderfully theraputic for certain people, and abusive for others.  People will rave here about how the numbers of benefitted people is tremendously small, but I don't think they have the numbers to really show that.....just that it was bad for them.

Personally, I have no issue with "here's what happened to me, here's what I saw, and here's how it feels to me".  I think there is an undeniable truth to that.

To say Hyde is the devil and evil and make all sorts of extrapolations and have everyone nod their head on things like LGATs and articles on Gulags and the like seems to miss the real value here.  If they just told their story and let that speak for itself.

For instance the person who keeps claiming Joe Gauld came back in time to insure he would not graduate and it has haunted him to this day, left out the whole story of why that happened.  You may not think its relevant.  I know the school well enough to know it is likely the nug of the matter.

Antigen, the people on this board love to hate me because it gives them an object to draw fire, but for people who really suffered abuse, even if at the hands of Joe Guald, I could not be more sympathetic.  I just don't take innuendo for fact.  Its not that hard to camoflague a story enough to Hyde one's identity.  And if that person is accurate, their story might be quite powerful.  But I also say X number of people leave because they became embroiled in profoundly challenging matters of personal growth and integrity and they quit.

Anyway, your name is not anonymous, and I am presuming as a founder of this board, you have shared your personal story and that it could be used as an example.  Believe that if you want....I actually am fairly new to all this and find it relatively shocking (the stuff I read about seeds).  I would be interested in knowing more.

[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-11 08:04 ]

5
Hyde Schools / Advice to Parents Considering Hyde School
« on: October 11, 2005, 10:46:00 AM »
Last one was me....

6
Hyde Schools / NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS
« on: October 11, 2005, 02:00:00 AM »
Seriously Antigen, I am actually interested in your story.  You are obviously passionate.  I think you are provide a great service here.  Do you have the backfill on your experience that led you to this place?

I know some about Seed.  What was a Seed chicklette?  How are you a drug war POW? And what does Apostate mean?

[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-10 23:02 ]

7
Hyde Schools / HydeFan
« on: October 11, 2005, 01:57:00 AM »
Why would I or anyone ever take that as an attack?  :smile:

8
Hyde Schools / Hyde Ethics
« on: October 11, 2005, 01:42:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-10-09 19:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Lying Liars

Posted: 2005-10-09 15:00:00  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Know what? It doesn't matter whether this particular incident occured or not. You, HydeFan, have stated pretty clearly that, even if it did happen, you're fine w/ protecting the rapist from prosecution.


Dear Non-Hyde Associated Person:

I notice that you never quoted me, but have said I stated "clearly" I am fine with protecting rapists from prosecution.  

I triple-dog dare ya to fine anything even close to that.

Which you won't, because it doesn't exist.

In my wildest nightmare, I would never contenance rape.

You all seem so inflammed by your passions you all just keep making assertions without the facts.  I didn't "clearly" state I was fine protecting a rapist from prosecution.  Or half the other statements attributed to me.  

I also haven't sworn or *for the most part* called people names (I think I used Liar, McFly, and probably a few others).....and I have carefully documented what was said and how I responded.  I have done research on disclosure issues, and NIH (regarding another claim of "irrefutable proof" programs like Hyde don't work).

I am sure my arrogance my trigger visceral reactions from everyone that make them recollect Hyde.  (I have to say, I can't give Hyde that much credit for my arrogance.)  But why lose all reason and resort to making stuff up to try and win?

That's what kills me, and discredits all of the good legitimate work you are doing.  Anyone coming to this site that already believes Hyde is bad may nod their head in agreement with you (like a recent x-parent), but I would have to think more reasoned thinkers would see how many on this site have been, if nothing else, reasonably slippery and deceptive.

Maybe not.  I'm sure many of you will tell me not, but whether its you letter to Congress or any other effort, you will be tainted by a lack of truth telling, and that hurts your legitimate efforts.

Oh well, just some late night musings.

9
Hyde Schools / NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS
« on: October 11, 2005, 01:29:00 AM »
Well the moral of the story is obvious.  

Its relevance, like yours, well, not as much.

10
Hyde Schools / NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS
« on: October 10, 2005, 08:32:00 PM »
Discretion of course, amigo.  Couldn't have said it better my self.  (You know, depending on whatever it is you were saying!)

11
Hyde Schools / NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS
« on: October 10, 2005, 07:51:00 PM »
Out of respect for the victim, I am willing to leave that part alone as long as others are as well.

12
Hyde Schools / NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS
« on: October 10, 2005, 07:05:00 PM »
Quote
You say that it happened on the Bath Campus, but did Anonymous say it was a Headmaster from the Bath Campus?  I didn't see that. Please forgive me if I am wrong, I know you have all the answers......NOT!"


Like I said, if you were familiar with the campuses during this period you would know there was only one possibility.[ This Message was edited by: HydeFan on 2005-10-10 16:05 ]

13
Hyde Schools / NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS
« on: October 10, 2005, 06:37:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-10 15:20:00, Antigen wrote:  Or they were in group when the kid brought the issue up and so they heard it straight from the horse's mouth.

See that's just my point Antigen.  No one here is alleging that they heard this child say anything with regard to my number 1.  The only "fact" was that it was alleged to have happened and the child spoke about it.  

Here are all 4 points for you again:

Quote
1. Show me any credible evidence that the child ask for it to be reported and that he was prevented from doing so;

2. Show me any credible evidence the child's family wasn't intimately involved in this decision and chose to do the best thing for the child;

3. Show me any credible evidence that no report in fact was made;

4. Show me any credible evidence that there was a duty to make this report.


Since the childs parent was the headmaster, we know #2 can never be even be alleged.

Since a report could have been made by either faculty, victim or parents, and a report could have been made without the entire school knowing it, there is no way anyone can say what happened their either.  Moreso, no one has alleged that the child was allowed to speak about this freely in a seminar, but wasn't allowed to report it to the police.  And then we are to belive that in the seminar he commented on how he wasn't allowed to report it.  If you knew Hyde, you would know wny Anonymous has not made that allegation.  It simply makes NO SENSE.

For #4, well, that's just the law.

Oh, and FWIW, Hyde students are free to come and go.  They are not "held against their will".  Hyde is not Synanon, and the LGAT's by definition are dramatically different from Hyde's seminars.

Antigen you had no affiliation with Hyde and never did, so where do you get off telling people what its about.  Your posts are as disingenuous as anyones here.

14
Hyde Schools / NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS
« on: October 10, 2005, 05:43:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-10 13:48:00, Anonymous wrote:

you keep coming on here saying that hyde did nothing wrong,

What I keep saying is we have no evidence of wrong-doing.

Quote
yet a child was gang raped while under their care and that child was directed to tell other children about it in a seminar rather than police being notified and appropriate action taken.

Nice!  More new facts.  Tell me, how do you know what the child was directed to say and whether the  police were notified and what if any other action was taken?

Quote
a child gets gang-sodomized at hyde, nothiong is done about it except to revictimize the kid in front of other kids and you think everything's a-ok about that.

Again, something you don't have the facts about.

Quote
anyway, thank you for doing the victims of this type of hideous abuse at the hands of hyde schools a service.

Yes, yes, I see.  I caused the rape too, doncha know?

Quote
your lack of ethics and morals as well as your defense of unconscionable negligence

More defamation.  Nice.

Quote
has done more to dissuade potential clients than you anyone else could have done.
 

Really?  

Quote
when you can't educate, elucidate or administrate, blame the victim.  p.s.: go for the crotch.


Really, where?

15
Hyde Schools / NOTICE TO POTENTIAL PARENTS
« on: October 10, 2005, 04:10:00 PM »
Quote
I certainly can't accept that the major problem surrounding a child's being sodomized at Hyde ("gang raped") is that another former client of Hyde made it easy to identify the victim.  That's ludicrous.

So you don't see any problem then with disclosing the identity of a rape victim, potentially forcing the to relive a trauma that they CHOSE to not relive any more than they had to 5-10 years ago?

That's fairly illuminating....

Quote
Obviously, the major problem is that this boy was sodomized in an unsafe environment

From my experience, there is a fair degree of vigilent observation at Hyde.  Not like public schools where everyone looks the other way.  That said, there is also a fair degree of freedom.  Hyde is not a lock-down, and the kids aren't monitored on cameras.  

Anyway, this would be a nice fact....IF YOU HADN'T MADE IT UP!

Quote
and the adults (Hyde staff) that were charged with his welfare failed miserably in safeguarding him

Yes, I see, based solely on the fact that it was alleged to have happened, ergo, Hyde failed "miserably" in safeguarding him.

Quote
and subsequently failed to properly report the incident as is required by law.


You don't really want to go through all of this again.  Well, apparently you do, so:

1.  Show me any credible evidence that the child ask for it to be reported and that he was prevented from doing so;

2.  Show me any credible evidence the child's family wasn't intimately involved in this decision and chose to do the best thing for the child;

3.  Show me any credible evidence that no report in fact was made;

4.  Show me any credible evidence that there was a duty to make this report.

Here's why you can't and won't be able to show any of these things:  They are all fundamentally private communications, and anyone who pretends to know otherwise is lying.

Its really not much more complicated than that.

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