Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on June 14, 2004, 11:12:00 PM
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Interesting discussion going on about this program, especially the sad post from someone appealing to a current student's parents that they should bring their child home.
http://amazingforums.com/forum/BS4/178.html (http://amazingforums.com/forum/BS4/178.html)
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Wonder what school in Alabama this child's dad objected so strongly to, he threatened to physically remove her if the mother placed her there? Ultimately, the child was placed at HLA, a very expensive boarding school in Georgia. The father who apparently objected to the placement and the high cost, filed a lawsuit which he lost. Here is a copy of the appeal, which he also lost. Interesting the child had no say in how she felt about her placement at HLA.
http://www.law.sc.edu/ctapp/3378.htm (http://www.law.sc.edu/ctapp/3378.htm)
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I seem to remember a non-custodial parent complaining that when her kid was on restrictions of some sort at HLA that they *severely* limited his food---as in, below the amount he was expending doing the work they were making him do, and food of a kind that was seriously deficient in nutrients.
I think she said something about grilled cheese on white bread---which is fine as an occasional part of a balanced diet or if you are taking appropriate dietary supplements, but awful if you're not.
Timoclea
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***The family court further ordered the father, who earned 82% of the family's income, to pay two-thirds of the child's medical expenses, excluding extraordinary medical expenses.
In May of 1998, the mother enrolled Gabrielle in Hidden Lake Academy, a therapeutic boarding school for children diagnosed with Oppositional Defiant Disorder. (1) The cost of tuition at HLA was, at all times pertinent to this case, $4,150.00 per month.
Well, there we go.
HLA is STILL not listed as a Residential Care Facility in Ga. After all the reams of information I gave the ORS- which proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that they were a therapeutic facility, they are still operating without a license. No traditional boarding school's tuition(whose primary purpose is education) is paid by insurance? Education at a traditional boarding school is NOT considered a "medical expense"?
How much plainer can it get?
http://www2.state.ga.us/Departments/DHR/ORS/ (http://www2.state.ga.us/Departments/DHR/ORS/)
Definition:
Any facility providing full time residential care for six or more children under 17 years of age outside of their own homes.
Exemptions:
*Child welfare agencies and other facilities and institutions wherein children and youths are detained which are operated by any department or agency of state, county or municipal government.
*Any bona fide boarding school WHOSE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF ADMISSION IS EDUCATION, provided that such facility in order to claim exemption shall operate under a published academic educational curriculum which meets the requirements of the State Department of Education, shall have classroom facilities which are not used for residential living, shall not have been granted nor have assumed legal custody of children attending the facility, and shall not provide service planning and casework services as described in the licensing rules.
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How can ORS allow the fraud to continue? Are they ignorant or are they colluding with the fraud? I have to assume that they have been deceived- HLA claiming that their 'therapeutic' program is 'emotional EDUCATION'.
Bullshit!
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Wonder how this girl enjoyed growing up in a therapeutic community as a result of her parents bad marriage?
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Regarding the 'Service Plan'. Apparently, since they are not listed as a RTC, they do not provide a service plan, but should if they are receiving money for 'medical' expenses.
How would their 'blanket' policies such as- all participants stay the same length of time; and one size fits all discipline/BM- qualify as any sort of service plan?
http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/complete/BCB77.pdf (http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/complete/BCB77.pdf)
290-2-5-.10 Assessment and Planning.
An institution shall complete a full written assessment of each child admitted for care and
of each child?s family within thirty days of admission and develop an individual written
service plan for each child based on the assessments within thirty days of admission. If an assessment is not completed within thirty days, the reasons for the delay shall be
documented in the child?s case record and such documentation shall include statements
indicating when the assessment is expected to be completed.
(a) The assessment shall be completed by the child?s designated Human Services
Professional. The assessment shall assess the needs of the child in the areas of health
care, education, family relationships, personal and social development, psychological and
personal development, and vocational development. This assessment is intended to
expand upon the initial intake evaluation required by Rule .09(2)(a)1.
1. The institution shall obtain the child?s school records from the last school attended in
order to complete the education needs component of the assessment.
(b) A service plan shall be developed by the child?s Human Services Professional in
concert with the child?s primary Child Care Worker, meaning the worker who has
responsibility for supervision of the child in the living unit where the child resides. The
plan shall contain the following data:
1. The results of the assessment and identified needs;
2. Statements of time-limited goals and objectives for the child and family and methods
of achieving them and evaluating them;
3. Statements of activities to be followed by the child and staff members in pursuit of the
stated goals and objectives;
4. Statements of any special care and services that will be arranged for or provided
directly;
5. Statements of goals and preliminary plans for discharge;
6. Statements about the types of discipline that should be employed when necessary; and
7. Statements about any restrictions of communications or visitations with any persons;
such statements shall clearly show that the health, safety, and welfare of the child would
be adversely affected by such communications or visits.
(c) The child, and the parent(s) or guardian(s), or child placing agency representative
shall be involved in the development of the service plan, and its periodic updates as
described below.
(d) The service plan shall be updated by the Human Services Professional at a minimum
of every six months and pertinent progress notes and data shall be incorporated in the
plan to measure attainment of stated goals and objectives. The child?s primary Child Care
Worker shall participate in the updating.
Authority O.C.G.A. Secs. 49-5-8, 49-5-12. History. Original Rule entitled "Assessment and Planning"
adopted. F. Jun. 30, 1994; eff. Aug. 1, 1994, as specified by the Agency.
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This is a big reason HLA and others don't want to be monitored by the state. It would infringe on their policies and seriously jeopardize profits.
http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/complete/D7AF4.pdf (http://rules.sos.state.ga.us/complete/D7AF4.pdf)
290-2-5-.09 Referral and Admission.
(1) Referrals. An institution shall only accept referrals for children whose known needs can be met by the institution in accordance with its program purpose and program description.
(a) Referral agreements with any public or private agencies that place children in the
institution shall be in writing and shall include the following provisions and
requirements.
1. Preplacement assessment and planning with the placing agency regarding the institution?s abilities to meet the needs of the child shall be done. To the degree possible, all relevant information required for admission to the facility shall be reviewed in preplacement assessment and planning.
2. There shall be a preplacement visit by the child, and the parent(s) or guardian(s), or
placing agency representative if there is a reasonable likelihood that the child will be
admitted.
(b) Referrals from any persons other than placing agencies (such as a parent or guardian)
shall be handled in the same manner as described above for referrals from placing agencies.
(2) Admissions. An institution shall only admit children whose known needs can be met by the institution based on preplacement assessment and planning. The institution shall comply with the Interstate Compact on Placement when admitting children from another state.
(a) Written admission policies and procedure shall be established and implemented and
shall include the following provisions or requirements.
1. An intake evaluation, including social, health, educational, and family history, and if
appropriate, psychological and personal developmental history; shall be done on each
child.
2. A completed written placement agreement shall be developed with the involvement of the child, and the parent(s) or guardian(s), or placing agency representative and signed by all parties; such agreement shall include the following:
(i) Written authorization to care for the child;
(ii) Written authorization to obtain medical care for the child;
(iii) Written summary of discussions among the child and the parent(s) or guardian(s), or
placing agency, and the institution?s Human Service Professional regarding basic care,
any specialized services to be provided, the description of the institution as outlined in
Rule .09(2)(b); and involvement of the parent(s) or guardian(s), or the placing agency in
service planning.
(b) A written description of the institution shall be provided to the child, the parent(s) or
guardian(s), or placing agency and shall include:
(i) The institution?s program purpose and program description;
(ii) The description of service planning and normal daily routines of children;
****************
My son did not receive a pre-placement evaluation. He was not 'diagnosed' ODD prior to placement. The staff at HLA diagnosed him when he arrived, "based on his father's complaints". And they certainly didn't bother with the ICPC.
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So what ever happened to this girl? Sure would be nice to hear from her about her experience at HLA. As for the parents, it sounds to me like this girl paid the ultimate price for acting out in response to her parent's troubled relationship. Typical.
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Deborah--Is HLA still operating unlicensed? How would I verify that and what do I need to prove they ought to be licensed?
I'm a Georgia resident, and we have enough of a record of political involvement that I might be able to light a fire under somebody.
They should *at least* have to be licensed and meet the licensing requirements.
We also have local investigative reporters of the persistent and aggressive variety who could be sicced on this place---they'd probably eat it up.
Can you personal message me and we can see what we can do to put the documentation together?
Thanks,
Timoclea
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See the list of RTCs at:
http://www2.state.ga.us/Departments/DHR/ORS/ (http://www2.state.ga.us/Departments/DHR/ORS/)
Their wilderness program which began in 2001 was required to obtain the proper license. When I inquired- after my son was sent there under questionable circumstances and lost his visit home- I was told by an HLA rep that wilderness programs in Ga were not required to have a license. ORS did do the right thing in this case.
Ridge Creek is listed under Outdoor Therapeutic Facilities:
http://www2.state.ga.us/Departments/DHR/ORS/ (http://www2.state.ga.us/Departments/DHR/ORS/)
They are not listed as a private school at the Dept of Education either:
http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/_dbs/schools/p ... stemID=693 (http://www.doe.k12.ga.us/_dbs/schools/private.asp?u_SystemID=693)
Nor, do I find them listed as a member of SACS:
http://www.sacs.org/reports/membership/ ... EC_GA.html (http://www.sacs.org/reports/membership/Proceedings_Accredited_SEC_GA.html)
Apparently, they lost their accreditation with them:
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een01.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2001/10/seen01.html)
HIDDEN LAKE ACADEMY ACCREDITATION
(December 7, 1999) Rusty Ray, Director of Academics at Hidden Lake Academy (HLA), Dahlonega, Georgia, 706-864-4730, a structured residential school, announced the school has been accepted as a Candidate for Accreditation with the Southeastern Association of Colleges and Schools (SACS). SACS has stringent requirements, and a school must be in existence for at least five years before it can even begin the process of applying for accreditation. In the negotiations, Ray reported, the representatives of SACS were so impressed with what HLA was doing that they recommended they apply for accreditation as a Traditional Private School, which has higher academic requirements than the category the school started the application with as a Special Purpose school.http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... een01.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2000/1/seen01.html)
HIDDEN LAKE ACAD. ACCREDITED BY SACS AS TRADITIONAL SCHOOL
(December 9, 2001) Dr. Len Buccellato, founder and Chairman of Hidden Lake Academy, Dahlonega, GA, 800-394-0640, was recognized by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, (SACS) at the SACS Annual Conference in New Orleans, LA, for being the first therapeutic boarding school nationwide to achieve full academic accreditation as a TRADITIONAL school.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... heard.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2002/5/seennheard.html)
They are listed as a Educational Agency with Special Purpose at Ga Accrediting Commission
http://www.coe.uga.edu/gac/index.html (http://www.coe.uga.edu/gac/index.html)
Timocleo,
I'll mail you later, busy now.
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2004-06-15 16:23 ]
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Thank you Deborah for all of your hard work. I hope that this will have the effect of making people think and act.
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Check out their demographics:
http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/NEWHLA/newstdemo.htm (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/NEWHLA/newstdemo.htm)
Enrollment Grade
7th/8th 13%
9th 28%
10th 35%
11th 24%
Male Female Total
Physical Abuse 7% 6% 7%
ADHD 32% 3% 10%
Sexual Abuse 9% 10% 5%
Sexual Acting Out 13% 67% 30%
Eating Disorder 5% 27% 12%
Suicidal Gestures 13% 42% 22%
Previous Runaway 25% 29% 27%
Divorced Parents 37% 40% 38%
Adopted 21% 31% 24%
Single Parent Family 27% 31% 24%
Prior Counseling 92% 99% 95%
Previous Wilderness 40% 33% 38%
Prior Hospitalization 23% 54% 33%
Medication at Enrollment 46% 33% 38%
Previous Wilderness 40% 33% 38%
Prior hospitalization 23% 54% 33%
Medication 46% 58% 50%
Alabama 3
California 3
Colorado 2
Connecticut 4
Florida 4
Georgia 14
Illinois 6
Iowa 1
Kansas 1
Kentucky 3
Louisiana 6
Massachusetts 4
Maryland 4
Michigan 4
Minnesota 2
Mississippi 1
Missouri 1
New Hampshire 2
New Jersey 10
New York 9
North Carolina 5
Ohio 4
Oklahoma 1
Pennsylvania 5
South Carolina 5
South Dakota 1
Tennessee 1
Texas 19
Virginia 5
Washington, DC 1
Costa Rica 1
Mexico 1
U.A.E. 1
Total Students 150
****
There have always been a large number of teens from Texas. I always wondered why that was.
Oh, this is good.
http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/NEWHLA/financial.htm (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/NEWHLA/financial.htm)
The tuition and fees are very reasonable for the program that we offer. We do not require any admission or orientation fee. The tuition is currently $5,400.00 per month. This tuition is guaranteed for the entire program, and will not increase even if the school?s rate increases. Under this tuition, almost everything is provided, with the exception of uniforms and medical expenses. The initial uniform expense is $1,300.00. Each student?s desk in the dorm room is equipped with a computer system that includes: Windows operating
[They fail to mention that your child can not posses any toiletries, etc from outside the facilty. They have their own 'store' and sell the 'approved' items at a significant profit. Like Sauve shampoo- .99 at WalMart for $4-5 if I remember correctly]
Insurance
A portion of the monthly tuition may be covered by medical insurance. We suggest you contact your insurance company for benefit information. Upon enrollment, your child will be placed on the insurance form list. Upon receiving your third Group Counseling/Insurance statement, you will need to contact the financial coordinator in HLA?s Business Office to arrange continuation of monthly insurance statements. HLA does not file insurance forms for students. Insurance forms are mailed to parents with monthly billing statement the month after the date of service.
Scholarships and Financial Aid
Hidden Lake Academy offers scholarships and financial aid programs to new students. Our program varies based on the particular needs of the student and their family. Please contact our Admissions Department for further information.
Tax Deductions
Monthly tuition payments may be tax deductible. As a parent of a disabled child, you are entitled to deduct as medical expenses the cost of tuition and room costs for a residential school. Reference: Revenue Ruling 58-280. Transportation costs that are deductible as medical expenses, are those incurred in transporting your child and yourself, to and from special schools and institutions. We encourage you to contact your Tax Accountant for other applicable tax laws and implications thereof.
Hmmmm
http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/NEWHLA/hlaunique.htm (http://www.hiddenlakeacademy.com/NEWHLA/hlaunique.htm)
An Individualized Therapeutic Plan including clinical treatment goals is maintained and revised by clinical supervisors throughout the enrollment of the student.
-Sounds like a Service Plan to me.
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You will find a story of a stepdad whose stepdaughter was sent to HLA here:
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:9i ... %22+&hl=en (http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:9iqa4LoxDpgJ:www.step-fathers.com/story.html+%22hidden+lake+academy%22+&hl=en)
It's a very lengthy document, but an excellent account that accurately exposes the nature of the program!
Anyone here from this site? Why did it close?
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:rx ... %22+&hl=en (http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:rxw6vUPrECQJ:www.livejournal.com/userinfo.bml%3Fuser%3Dhlasurvivors+%22hidden+lake+academy%22+&hl=en)
Survivors of HLA
Name: Survivors Of Hidden Lake Academy
About: This community is to try and bring together some of the survivors/alumni of Hidden Lake Academy, the boarding school in North Georgia.
Interests: 7: boarding school, boarding schools, dahlonega, dahlonega ga, hidden lake academy, hla, ridge creek. [Modify yours]
Members: 6: bargeld, blahthequah, horncall, oaksilver, poopfish, zisforzillah
Watched by: 6: bargeld, blahthequah, horncall, oaksilver, poopfish, zisforzillah
***
Or this disscussion forum at EZBoard
http://p068.ezboard.com/bhladiscussionboards (http://p068.ezboard.com/bhladiscussionboards)
Which appears to have been put up a couple of years ago, but no activity.
Or these:
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:OK ... %22+&hl=en (http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:OKgz-caHGmcJ:www.livejournal.com/community/hlasurvivors/+%22hidden+lake+academy%22+&hl=en)
http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:FQ ... %22+&hl=en (http://216.239.59.104/search?q=cache:FQsrLDSYu9AJ:www.sonicyouth.com/bboard/fanforum/post.asp%3FParentID%3D14203133%26OrderID%3D1.12%26Action%3Dreply%26pivot%3D0+%22hidden+lake+academy%22+&hl=en)
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Recent dialogue with a parent considering HLA at Amazing Forums.
DeeDee:
I am considering trying to get help for my child at Hidden Lakes.. What about an honest rundown on the school
Healed:
You won't get it on any of these boards. there is nothing but anger and immaturity here, contact the schools directly or an ed consultant, please don't depend on these sites, you will only get the opinion of the angry, spoiled children that never finished the program because they got dismissed or convinced their parents that they are "better" or that "hla sucks", or "they learned their lesson and wont do ... again, but end up falling back into their old patterns eventually or initially especially if they convinced their parents because they know that their parents are weak and that the kids rule the roost...hla is a good school that does wonderful things and if your child is a good fit, it will save his/her life and your sanity.
Deborah:
Dee Dee,
You will be discouraged from seeking information from ex parents and participants of any program who were not satisfied with their experience. I think this is bad advice. I would encourage you to seek information from all sources before making a decision. Yes, some ex participants are angry about their experience. If their allegations are true, their anger is justified. Ignore the unpleasant language, but pay close attention to their accounts of the experience and allegations. Use these accounts to compile a list of questions for the program.
You can not necessarily depend on the advice of an Ed Con. Many are former employees of programs and are therefore, not objective. The one who referred my ex knew nothing about the program- that they were not licensed or monitored by the state, knew nothing about their behavior modification techniques, was not familiar with their policies and if those policies were carried out in the manner they were described in the parent manual. She referred based on ?the owner?s reputation?. That is not sufficient.
To depend solely on the advice of a program or an Ed Con would not be wise. Both have an obvious conflict of interest because they stand to profit from the placement of your child. When making such an important decision one should do careful research. It is incumbent on the parent to ask hard questions of the program, questions regarding the policies and methods of modifying your child?s behavior. As your child?s advocate who has a vested interest in their well being, it would not be wise to go into this type of arrangement blindly trusting. You must determine if you are in agreement with the methods they will use, and monitor to ensure the methods are employed as they were presented to you. The best way to monitor is to maintain contact with your child, who the only person who can warn you of potential abuse or discrepancies.
My advice to you is to ask many hard questions of any program. Severing contact between the parent and child is typical with programs. Don?t be swayed to believe it is a good policy because ?they all do it?. Refuse to comply with this policy. Let the program know that you want unmonitored phone calls with your child, and do not want your child to be punished for reporting anything negative. Assure them that you can distinguish between truth and ?manipulation?. Any program that is operating ethically will not fear this. In most states it is unlawful to sever contact between parent and child unless a professional has determined that contact with the parent is not in the child?s best interest. Ask the program if their state has such a law and why they are violating it. Children sent to juvenile facilities are not restricted in this way- why would it occur in the private sector? The primary reason for severing contact, in my opinion, is two fold. One- to reduce attrition. Two- to set a precedent with the child. In order for the program to ?work?, the child must believe that the program has the ultimate authority. Your compliance with this policy directly and indirectly tells your child that you have indeed abdicated all parental authority to the program.
Ask the program if they post phone numbers for reporting abuse, and a public phone which your child may use to do so. No matter how ?good? the program is, there is always the danger of a staff member perpetrating abuse. Pedophiles are drawn to residential facilities for children. A program one of my sons attended has had two occurrences of this- one was my son?s dorm officer. My son reported him and he is now serving a 95 year sentence. Degrees and background checks are not sufficient, as he was working there under an alias. A parent can not be too cautious.
Make numerous visits to the program unannounced. Don?t be discouraged when you are asked to leave. This is another of the standard procedures- no visits except during scheduled events. Parents are typically not allowed on campus for months. Why? My opinion, is that they discourage contact until after the child (and parent) have been conditioned. The parent is conditioned to put their faith in the program and the child is conditioned- through punishment- not to report anything negative. If there is ample trust between you and your child it is likely that s/he will violate this rule and attempt to tell you what is going on. You would be wise to listen, and err on the side of caution.
Ask if they accept severely distressed kids or kids with a violent or criminal past. Review the demographics.
Ask how many of the participants actually leave for the regularly scheduled home visits, particularly in the first 9 months. For what reasons would home visits be denied?
Ask if participants have ever acquired illegal substances while in the program. How often has it occurred?
Ask how your child will be punished for x,y,z behavior. What is the child?s day like while on ?restriction?? Are the participants ever restrained? Is staff trained in de-escalation techniques? Then verify these things with your child on an ongoing basis.
How are their ?therapy? groups run? Will your child risk punishment if he does not divulge intimate details about himself before s/he is ready to do so? How much one-on-one time will my child have with his counselor/surrogate parent?
What is the policy for addressing a child who is grieving the loss of contact with his/her family? Would my child ever be punished for talking about home, or missing home? If so, why?
Are the children placed on restriction given fewer calories or less variety of nutritious foods? Is food every denied, or the time in which they have to eat, shortened? Do they take their meals with their peers? Will your child be allowed contact with peers? What physical work will your child be assigned to do? How long can a child remain on restriction?
If my child is reported to have violated a rule by another participant, how is it determined if s/he is indeed guilty? Do your staff members apologize to the children when they have made a mistake or unjustly accused and punished someone?
How do they reprimand their staff for violations of ethics and policies? Is a parent notified when this occurs?
If any staff member tells your child that you do not love him/her, or that you support everything the program does, pull him/her immediately and ask questions later. The only people who know what is occurring on a daily basis is staff and your child. It would be unwise to completely discount your child?s reports and allegations. If you are uncertain about a particular policy or method, consult with an independent, third party, professional for advisement.
This should give you a place to start. And never forget that you are your child?s best advocate, his/her only contact with the outside world once enrolled in a residential program. Don?t let anything sever that contact. Despite the conflict and strife between the two of you, it is very damaging to what trust may remain, and there is absolutely no reasonable or rational reason to do so.
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im in hidden lake and the school is a very strict structural school they are in quite a large debt and they continue to fire staff.
hideen lake has quite a few issues such as strip searches which i believe to be violating against students with insecurity problems
hidden lake has been known for the child labor in fields and a lot of physical training leving students sick from rain and in quite a bit of pain,
their doctor has no clue whats hes doing because he gives students twice as mucha s tehy need which makes things worse.
Thank you
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I WAS AN ORIGINAL EMPLOYEE OF HLA IN 1994. EVERY KID THAT CAME IN WAS LABLED OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT. THAT PLACE IS A HUGE, MONEYMAKING FRAUD...
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the wilderness program has been in place since hla opened in 1994. a guy named dean and his wife were the "wilderness counselors" when rudy bentz was headmaster.
btw, the good doctor who runs the place is openly gay, although they treat homosexuality as an illness...
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The owner is allegedly gay too. Double-standard?
To my knowledge, HLA didn't open their own wilderness program (Ridge Creek)until 2001. Prior to that the kids attended wilderness elsewhere.
The parent manual stated:
Clean Air Experience
"Sleeping in a confortable, climate-controlled environment is a privilege of civilized society. Sometimes, though, students act in a rather uncivilized manner. When this occurs, a student my be given a Clean Air eperience. Under the supervision of the night security staff, the student will safely sloop outdoors in front of the dormitory or in a tent or lean-to shelter, usually for a night or two- but the time may be extended if necessary." They could also be required to sleep in the common area or hallway.
Challenge Trip
This is the term for a relatively brief wilderness trip away from the main campus- but still on school property (or possibly in a nearby part of the National Forest)- for students who are proving particularly resistant to changing unacceptable behavior or who are making minimal efforts toward growth. Trips may last a week or more. Students lose the privilege of weekly calls with their parents.
Pre-Wilderness Trip
Students who continually repeat the same kinds of inappropriate behaviors may be sent on a Pre-Wilderness Trip, which is similar to a Challenge Trip. Pre-Wilderness Trips-in contrast to Challenge Trips-culminate with the understanding that a continuation of the same behavior will result in the student being sent to an Off-Campus Wilderness Program for several weeks. They also loose the privilege of weekly calls with parents.
Off-Campus Wilderness
Students who continually refuse to modify unacceptable behavior may be sent to an off-campus wilderness program in order to allow them to find a new sense of self-reliance, purpose, and commitment to the work that needs to be done at HLA.....These programs typically range from 30 days to six or seven weeks, and may result in the student's transfer to a Peer Group with a later graduation date.
***
Following a complaint that HLA had violated their own policy by sending my son to Wilderness before being sentenced to Clean Air, Challenge, or Pre-Wilderness; the policy was changed and a replacement sheet was sent to parents.
Challenge and Pre-Wilderness options had been omitted. A kid went from Clean Air to Wilderness, at HLA's discretion.
And who were these boys spending time with in this program which was billed as a "Wilderness Leadership Program" and NOT A BOOT CAMP? A group of weekend warriors.
Keith Antonia , Director
Keith Antonia graduated from the University of Connecticut in 1981 with a B.S. in General Business Administration and holds a Masters degree from the Naval War College in National Security. Recently retired as a Lieutenant Colonel, Keith completed 20 highly successful years of service in the U.S. Army as an infantry officer in Airborne and Ranger units. Throughout his 20 years leading soldiers under hazardous conditions, he became an expert at managing and mitigating risk. His effort and supervision led to an outstanding safety record. His last assignment in the Army involved commanding the Mountain Phase of the U.S. Army Ranger School in Dahlonega, Georgia. His goal is to provide a rigorous but safe wilderness leadership program for Ridge Creek students. He and his family currently reside in Dahlonega, Georgia.
Wilderness Staff:
Tom Wilburn, Wilderness Team Leader
Recently retired First Sergeant, Tom served 20 years in the U.S. Army Special Operations Forces. His qualifications include Ranger, Pathfinder, Master Fitness Trainer, Advanced Land Navigation, Survival, SpecialForces Mountain Rescue, American Heart Association CPR Instructor, Wilderness First Responder and many other certifications/ qualifications. Tom has extensive leadership training and experience. He led soldiers under the most hazardous conditions in combat and in peacetime with outstanding success. He achieved the highest enlisted rank in the Army. He also is a volunteer fireman in Suches, GA where he assists with search and rescue. He and his family reside in Suches, Georgia.
Kevin Connell, Wilderness Team Leader
Kevin recently retired as a Command Sergeant Major from the U.S. Army after serving over 23 years in Special Operations and Ranger Units. His qualifications include Ranger, High Risk Survival, Mountaineering Instructor, Winter Operations Course, Master Fitness Trainer, American Heart Association CPR Instructor and numerous other qualifications/certifications. During his time in the military, Kevin was recognized as a mature, focused leader who was unflappable under the most stressful conditions. He mentored, trained and led hundreds of future Army leaders. He and his family reside in Dahlonega, Georgia.
Matt Owens, Wilderness Leadership Instructor
Matt has been an avid outdoorsman for over 10 years. He has worked as a Park Ranger with the National Park Service, and is an American Heart Association CPR Instructor as well as a certified EMT. He also had the opportunity to thru-hike the 2,168 mile long Appalachian Trail. Matt graduated with a Bachelor of Science in Education in Recreation and Parks Administration. He currently resides in Dahlonega, Georgia.
Marci Summer, Wilderness Leadership Instructor
Marci has experience as a backpacking, rock climbing, rappelling, and outdoor expedition facilitator. She has a B.S. in Education in Recreation and Leisure Studies. Marci is a Certified Therapeutic Recreation Therapist and an American Heart Association CPR Instructor. Previously, she served as a recreation therapist at Northeast Georgia Medical Center. She currently resides in Gainesville, Georgia.
Clinical Staff:
J.J. Williams, Admissions Director
J.J. has been in Administration for over 6 years. She graduated with a Bachelor?s degree in Interdisciplinary Fine Arts. J.J. most recently was a Theatre Arts Instructor in Fayetteville, N.C. She has traveled abroad with her duties both Theatrical and Administratively. J.J. is American Heart Association CPR certified and First Aid Certified. She and her husband currently reside in Dahlonega, Georgia.
Cheryl Clark, MSW, LCSW, Counselor
Cheryl has been employed in the field of mental health for over 12 years. She has a Bachelor?s degree in Psychology, a Master?s degree in Social Work and is an American Heart Association CPR Instructor. She worked for 7 years in an acute-care psychiatric hospital where she conducted individual, family and group therapy with adolescents and their families. After relocating to Georgia in 1996, she worked as a Private Psychotherapist in metro Atlanta. Her areas of clinical expertise include anger management, depression and other mood disorders, relationship/ family conflict and self-esteem. She currently resides in Dahlonega, Georgia.
David Jordan, MTS, Counselor
David has worked over 15 years as an outdoor guide and youth counselor. David holds a Bachelor?s degree and a Master?s degree in Theological Studies (magna cum laude). He is currently pursuing a Master of Arts degree at Prescott College in Counseling and Psychology with a specialty in Wilderness Therapy. He has been trained and certified as a Wilderness First Responder, American Heart Association CPR Instructor and an Alpine Tower Facilitator. David and his family currently reside in Dahlonega, Georgia.
The men that the boys spent the majority of their time with did not posses the require credentials or experience with youth, according to the Ga Regs. How did they get by with this? They weren't licensed and monitored. The director told me that wilderness programs weren't required to be licensed in Ga. He was obviously mistaken. He has been replaced, along with the other Mt Rangers, some who were not mentioned is the list of staff.
One asked my son, "Do they restrain ya'll over at HLA?" My son replied yes. He laughed and said, "Yeh, but I bet they don't have as much fun doing it as we do."
Another tidbit from the parent manual, "Make it clear to your child that you are not interested in wasting your telephone time on rumors and that any 'facts' about the school will be communicated to you by a Communicator." And, "The best way to deal with any and all complaints from your child is with the repeated suggestion that they talk the problems over with their counselors and ask for whatever help they need."
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I live about an hour east of Dahlonega. If there is anything that I can do to help, let me know. I would be more than happy to help you in anyway that I can.
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Thanks dear, your kindness is appreciated, but my son has been home for a couple of years now. There may be other parents who still have children there though, and would appreciate your offer.
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As a current employee of HLA (and not one at a level to have any reason to defend or blast its policies), I'd just like to point out that many of you are arguing and fretting over what trickles down to second/third/fourth hand information.
I can't say that I agree with all of the policies; nor can I say that I've been through a masters program or many years of experience in any field of youth therapy. For the most part, these guys seem to know what they're doing. Things are always going to sound worse from the kids. I love em, I really do, but they're not all exactly mature adults of sound mind. They're teenagers with needs that the parents felt could/needed to be met somewhere outside of the home.
It's made to sound like the school is some sort of sweat shop with harsh physical labour. The school tries to make sure the students have so many hours of physical activity a day. That might be sports or walking, tossing a ball around or just keeping generally active. They also have options of music and art (as well as various other activites throughout the week). There are sports teams and theatre groups, debate and mock trial. The only negative I really ever see in any of that is the kids who are, well, just being lazy and don't want to participate.
Things like "Clean Air" are made out to sound awful. I've never once seen a kid put outside of the dorms. They're usually kept inside out of the elements, under watch and in a safe environment with a sleeping bag and bed roll. When they're on something of that sort, it's because we feel they need to be watched because of previous actions. Again, I see little fault in that.
Kids don't go to wilderness type programs without a healthy handful of reason. Plenty of kids go maybe once in their entire time there. The kids that are sent their more frequently are generally disruptive or causing problems in various areas.
They don't hold back phone calls to "break" the kids. Try to remember that just you, just like me, these are regular people, not demons with some vile purpose to hurt for pleasure. Most of them are actually pretty nice and decent human beings with a great attitude and a truck load of patience. Methods are established based on experience with things that work. New policies are put into place when an event comes up that suggests a need for change. That's not a matter of HLA policy, that's just common sense, folks.
I could go on, but what's the point? I have a feeling most of you have made up your mind at this point. I'm hardly a long term employee but I've been around long enough to meet some wonderful kids who I enjoy very much. I truly do want the best for them...sure, the ones who kick and scream and fight the system won't get a darn thing out of it, but those who take it seriously and have good parental support come away with a new appreciation for what they have.
You find the two or three kids out of the various graduating classes who are raising a stink and you start throwing stones; think about the hundreds of other kids who went through and haven't complained...if it was so bad, I don't think mere apathy would be the issue. I've been right proud of some of the graduating kids - they've become leaders amongst their peers and have a much more firm grasp on the world around them. If it's such a horrid place, I doubt I'd be wasting my time defending it. I write not to rant, but merely to try and alleviate some of the craziness that I'm seeing posted by outside sources. Give peace a chance...
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You said, "If it's such a horrid place, I doubt I'd be wasting my time defending it."
I think you should stick with what you know and previously stated, "not one at a level to have any reason to defend or blast its policies". Blatant contradiction. Double-speak. Sounds like you've been trained well.
My son's peer group started with 18 kids. Half or more left before their so-called 'graduation'. That's a few more than "two or three". I think there are many more 'unhappy' customers than are currently speaking on this forum.
Now, I'm going to reserve judgment, but this comment,"I write not to rant, but merely to try and alleviate some of the craziness that I'm seeing posted by outside sources" sounds like you are calling me crazy and uninformed. Reminescent of the letter the resident shrink sent to the judge. I resent the implication.
I suppose that violating your their own policies, which results in a complaint, would constitute a "need to change" them. I can see where that wouldn't work for the average, intelligent parent.
My son was a leader before he was subjected to the methods of HLA. His Wilderness counselor was honest enough to say this and comment that he shouldn't be there. HLA didn't enhance his leadership qualities, they did everything in their power to deminish that and cause him to question himself. Can you tell me I'm wrong?
No. And don't refer to me, or others who have had direct experience, as 'outside sources'. You're out of line doing so.
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PS Defend this.
If the don't restrict contact with parents to "break" the kid, then what's the rationale?
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Try Again? Try Again? Try Again? Try Again?
meta http-equiv="refresh" content="0;url=http://www.msn.com"
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Oh what Bullshit!!! I can not believe I live so close to this freakin' place and never knew it existed!! I guess the Ed Cons. we spoke to didn't get any kick back from there! The ones we talked to only praised WWASPS, so we didn't get any info from them on any other places. I am willing to find out any info I can for anybody looking to send a child there. I will be perfectly honest, good or bad. However, I think the "current employee" is full of it, this sounds exactly like the crap we were told when we took our daughter to the kiddie prison. Do they all have the same script?????? It is unconscionable that these people think it is only the immature children who didn't finish the program who have complaints and true allegations. Don't defend when you don't know the whole story!
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To my knowledge, in 2001, they did not directly compensate the Ed Cons. But, this is how that goes...
At the first parent workshop prior to the first visit, the Headmaster stated that they couldn't compensate the Ed Con, but if the parent could show proof that they had used one they would remimburse the parent $250, which they could "use at their discretion". In such a tone as to imply that they should pass it on to the Ed Con.
Now, if a parent did not use an Ed Con they would refer them to one, because a referal was 'necessary for placement'.
My ex was refered by an EC who knew nothing about the program. She refered to the facility based on the 'owner's reputation'. She knew nothing of the methods, of the austere 'restriction diet', of the montiored phone calls and mail, that they weren't licensed, that my son had been sent to their unlicensed wilderness program, etc. etc. In an apologetic tone she said that she 'hoped my son would be able to get the education he needed there'. Lordy, lordy. As it turned out, she knew nothing about my A/B son who was well liked by his peers and teachers, and an incredible athlete. Hadn't even layed eyes on him. Didn't know if he'd been evaluated prior to placement or that HLA 'diagnosed' him ODD on the spot, based on his clueless father's complaints. She was paid handsomely to provide the name of a facility. Period.
And yes, they all use pretty much the same 'script'. This particular facility has its roots in CEDU. Many of the same techniques, sans 'propheets', to my knowledge. They all appear to be modeled to varying degrees after the original programs.
Yes, the kids are 'manipulating liars' and the parents are 'crazy' and/or 'adversarial'. People will have to choose for themselves what to believe and what sounds reasonable, and some will have to put their hand in the fire in order to get it.
Stay alert. Ask questions. Refuse to have contact with your child limited or monitored. There is absolutely no therapeutic justification for this policy. It only serves the program.
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The thing that most worries me about HLA is the allegation that kids "on restriction" get whitebread and american cheese sandwiches to eat. Even if they get "as much as they want," even if mind games aren't played with insufficient time to eat, or screwing around with eating conditions, or making them choose between eating an inadequate portion and choking down a hugely overwhelming amount, cheese sandwiches are not nutritionally adequate.
Even the kids on restriction should be eating a diet that is put together by a registered dietician to be nutritionally complete, that has the recommended servings per day of fresh fruits and vegetables.
In fact, they should all be eating the same food a registered dietician puts together as nutritionally complete, and eating enough of it to support their caloric expenditures, and if there is "restriction" that affects meals, it should only consist of being made to eat alone.
Yeah, it may not be effective at "breaking" the kid. So bloody what! Kids are not omelettes where "you have to break a few eggs". They're not horses or dogs where you train 'em and then cull the ones that don't come up to scratch (not that you could now with animal cruelty laws---which protect the dogs and horses more than these kids are protected!).
You want me to believe HLA has changed? Post their menus. And get me the kids saying that really is what they're eating, after the kids have left and can say the truth without reprisals. And show me that the kids even on restriction are getting that menu *without* funky mind games like not enough time to eat or having to wolf down either inadequate portions or overwhelming double portions.
There is no excuse for a child not having unmonitored telephone contact at least once a week with either a parent or some external guardian ad litem (if the parents are screwed up). There is no excuse for the children not having access to an independent ombudsman with no vested interest in the success or failure of HLA. None whatsoever.
I don't give a shit if you think it "works." As a parent and having a degree (undergraduate, but still) in psychology from a decent university, I am bloody appalled that you would (seem to) think that anything less is in any way justifiable.
Every child is entitled to nutritionally and calorically adequate food (they may not eat it if they have junk food choices, but they're entitled to have it provided), an adequate roof over his head, clothing appropriate for the climate and the weather, education, and communications access to parents or (if there's something wrong with the parents) a guardian. From everything I've heard from parents who have had kids at HLA, HLA's provisions of these most basic of necessities--specifically, the food---is substandard.
You want us to quit complaining about HLA? Well, they can't talk their way out of a bad reputation they behaved their way into.
If they've fixed the food for the kids "on restriction", and aren't playing games with the kids' time and ability to eat a filling but not gaggingly overfilling amount of that food, then they need to demonstrated it to the community.
*One* way to do so would be to put webcams in the restriction meal room (or area of the cafeteria, however you have those kids eat) and cafeteria and give parents a login so they can any day at random, any meal, see exactly what the kids are eating, and under what conditions.
If they've fixed the problem, let them put their money where their mouth is and *prove* it to the parents.
TimocleaThat which does not kill you can make you stronger, but I really never needed to be this strong.
Scott Wagner
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anonymous get a username so i can send you private messages. what you have to know about hla or any other cascade clone is that it is the scam artists who run it are the "manipulative liars" and are the crazy ones. they are crazy because they are so narcissistic they think that molesting kids and lying to the state and parents is all part of helping kids. the only thing they help themselves to is money and that is what they are out for. they often accuse others of things but everytime they do they are projecting. they are really talking about themselves when they label kids and parents. staff are hired based on whether they will lie for rudy. rudy learned this when he was at cedu under frauds like wasserman and allgood who taught him that if you do not lie for us we will ruin your life. most staff cannot do anything else but lie and molest kids so they go along with this because if they do not they are fired and since they have worked for rudy or allgoood they are known molestors and cannot work at any other "emotional growth" facility. so they destoy the lives of young boys so they can live the way they want to and went caught the excuse given to outsiders is that they have to lie because they think that most kids who run away usually want to come back. they come back because they are so mindfucked that they cannot function in a world where they are not the center of the universe. these programs are all narcisscistic me first fuck everybody else run by unlicensed untrained staff who come from prisons and crack houses and run away everytime they are discovered to be sociopaths. INSIST that you be allowed to see your kid in person alone every 3 months and do not believe rudy if he says your kid cannnot leave. threaten to call in the sheriff and the local news station then they will release your kid. do not buy the crap they feed you that your son has decided to stay and cannot come to the phone,
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Rudy's not there anymore. He went from there to Swift River, now he's an Ed Con in Santa Fe.
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[ This Message was edited by: hattie's had it on 2005-02-22 10:01 ]
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***It is hard to work in a place where you see kids who are there for supposedly being very manipulative being MANIPULATED themselves.
This was my observation as well. Ironically, the majority of parents are manipulated too.
How did you see the kids being manipulated?
I've heard that the 'restriction diet' was changed when the catering company was hired to prepare balanced meals. Is that accurate?
Do those on restriction eat the same meals that the others do? Or is it still cheese and white bread sandwiches? Do they have the same amount of time to eat? Do they still eat outside on the curb? Are they PT'd if they aren't finished and therefore, don't throw away their plate when trash comes around?
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HLA employee,
Explain this comment:
I'd just like to point out that many of you are arguing and fretting over what trickles down to second/third/fourth hand information.
Second, third, fourth-hand information? On what do you base that comment? Can you provide examples of each? Or is that some off-the-wall exaggeration in order to embellish your 'deceptive' defense?
Your post is a prime example of program manipulation: Claim that you are not doing precisely what you are doing.
I've always wanted to ask this to a program person.... Are you confused in that respect? Is it that you really don't see what you're doing Or do you believe that we're all just too ignorant to see that your words/actions aren't congruent?
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http://amazingforums.com/forum/BS4/254.html (http://amazingforums.com/forum/BS4/254.html)
posted 2/7/05 5:15 PM
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I am a rare adult survivor of HLA - I got out IN FEBRUARY 2005,with a little sanity left. After teaching special education for nearly 20 years, I only survived 6 months at HLA. The kids don't feel they can talk to their counselors - maybe its manipulation - maybe not, so they told me things, but I was not in a position to do much except listen without criticizing them and then report safety concerns.ACTUALLY I REPORTED A SAFETY CONCERN TO A COUNSELOR (D.S.) THE DAY I LEFT. IT WAS ABOUT A GIRL WHO HAD JSUT RETURNED FROM A PSYCH HOSPITAL FOR TRYING TO COMMIT SUICIDE WHILE SHE WAS ON "clean air" _ where there is supposed to be extra supervision - THE GIRL HAD CUT SEVERAL MORE TIMES (mostly small stuff)DURING THE 24 - 36 HOURS SHE HAD BEEN BACK AT HLA AND TOLD ME SHE DIDN'T FEEL SAFE AND THOUGHT SHE NEEDED TO RETURN TO THE PSYCH HOSPITAL - I TOLD DOUG S. - ONE OF HER COUNSEWLORS ABOUT IT AND HE SAID "WELL, TELL HER TO CUT AGAIN AND THEN WE'LL SEND HER BACK TO THE PSYCH HOSPITAL." They certainly can't tell their parents their real feelings and experiences without being punished for being manipulative by those who are assigned to monitor their mail, email and phone calls. HLA is not the panacea for all teen problems - most of which kids grow out of or learn to use to their advantage in the business world. Some HLA kids need counseling, some need AA, some need psych hospitals; most need love and time to mature - most are there because their parents were MANIPULATED BY ED. CONSULTANTS AND HLA advertisements. Want a GREAT LAUGH? Go to "struggling teens.com/archives/2001/6/visit01.html" this is a site from "Woodbury Reports, Inc." some ed. consultant deal out of Idaho. This site, while only a few years old, certainly did not describe the HLA I just left. The article claimed the campus was attractive - that's about the only info. I can agree with in their entire review. All the "players" names have changed, except Len, who still owns it and seems like a decent guy, only he leaves the "Mice to play" while he does all his other business things and they do whatever they find most convenient (and maybe even sadistically fun). The article says all teachers are certified - try maybe 20%! The site claims all the kids have IEPs - not! Even if they come in with an IEP, HLA does not have to abide by it because they are a private institution. 100% do not attend college! The cafeteria does not over look the lake - maybe they visited on a rainy day! Restrictions kids get less food and water and are supervised by folks with questionable objectives. Most of the counselors are straight out of college with no experience, so they buy into what the administrators feed them about treating kids in a very punitive way and being constantly suspicious, not to mention telling them behavior modification works. It has been proven that behavior modification in humans is temporary at best.PARENTS - DO YOURSELF AND YOUR WALLET A FAVOR - BEFORE PICKING ANY BOARDING SCHOOL, VISIT UNANNOUNCED AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, AFTER PLACING YOUR KID IN ONE, VISIT UNANNOUNCED. Refuse to be treated like a mushroom- kept in the dark and fed crap! (Parents need to know when their son has been beaten up by a group of homophobic guys. (Some of the kids who came to tell me their problems were gay and felt they were being discriminated against because of this by their counselors and others.) Parents need to know when their daughter has stepped in big puddles of blood first thing in the morning that were left behind by her suicidal roomate. Parents need to know that group therapy has been shown to be more harmful than helpful for "cutters." THIS IS ALL SERIOUS AND FROM THE HEART BECAUSE I TRULY CARE ABOUT THESE KIDS.
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Tell us about that rudy who cared only about how much he could extort from parents and his ass got fired for stealing funds and he ran to arizona. tell us about this ignorant control freak and did he feed you crap about mel wasserman whose molesting put him in the ground .
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please register and contact me for a private discussion.
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I was a spouse of one of the employees there, and who is still there. I lived on the campus for 4 years. I spent 7 years total visiting the campus. There were bad employees fired for not behaving properly and being out of line. There were bad situations every now and then. But I also witnessed kids making up stuff about counselors that I knew were lies personally to try to get out of the school. Most of the kids were good kids, but wanted attention from their parents and instead got shipped away to a boarding school by their rich parents who didnt want to deal with them. Some of the kids were not so good. But nevertheless, most of the employees there that I knew, really wanted to do good and help the kids grow and mature. I personally was a witness to the school for 7 years and yes they are licensed, and accredited by several organizations now. As with any school, just like my old high school, there are bad apples, and bad things that happen. But overall, I never saw abuse, or harassment, or neglect. They werent even allowed to restrain the kids if they ran away off campus. They were only allowed to follow them in a car or walk behind them and try to talk them out of it. Then they were required to call the sheriff once the kid went onto the main road. Be careful judging a whole school because of former employees being less than professional. That is why they are FORMER employees! And personally I think the campus is a very pretty place, you should have seen it before the improvements! I lived on the campus for 4 yrs and thought it was always clean and pretty.
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Shhh,
I haven't heard one parent complain about the physical appearance of the facility. It was immaculate, on the outside. In this case, you certainly shouldn't judge the content of the book by its 'cover'.
I heard that the "lake" was so toxic that you couldn't swim in it or eat the fish. What do you say?
I have come to realize that the words abuse, harassment, and neglect are defined very differently by program supporters.
If you know anything about the methods, then you certainly know about the 'restriction diet'. Using the average person's definition, restriction and the diet associated with it would constitute abuse and neglect. Would you like to give a shot at defending white bread and cheese sandwiches for potentially weeks or months on end? Would you subject your own child to that?
And that's just one method of many that we can debate if you're up for it. If you saw no abuse, neglect, harrassment... your eyes were closed.
What was your role at the factility? How is it that you had access to the participants?
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My access was that I lived there, on campus...ate at the cafeteria sometimes...my ex mother in law was one of the first cooks there so I knew all about the menus. I participated in the bonfire at halloween, watched the plays, sledded with my children and the students down the big hill when it snowed, my children played in the stream by the 2 fields and the little bridge. I worked parttime printing progress reports for the teachers..thats how I had access. I was a spouse for 7 years and a parttime employee for a year. My eyes werent closed, I knew almost every bad thing that happened. And knew about almost every person fired for not behaving in a manner appropriate. Yes there are bad apples but you cant judge the ENTIRE school and staff because of that. Its an unfair generalization And by the way, I caught and ATE the fish that swam in the lake, so it couldnt have been THAT toxic! LMAO be careful about rumors..they tend to get weirder the more they get passed down :smile:
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You missed a question which I will expand:
Using the average person's definition, restriction and the diet associated with it would constitute abuse and neglect. Would you like to give a shot at defending two small boxes of cereal for breakfast, and white bread/cheese sandwiches for lunch and dinner, for the duration of restriction which could potentially be and is frequently for weeks or months on end? Would you subject your own child to that?
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a direct answer to your specific question posted above...I had never heard of a child being on restriction for months...thats ridiculous...the longest restriction I heard was a week or two. And it wasnt only cheese sandwiches. And by the way, what kid eats more than 2 boxes of cereal for breakfast? a week of cereal, fruit, sandwiches and juice and water wont kill anybody. And they do have a nutrionally balanced menu now. Ive personally eaten at the school probably more than 50 times and thought it was fine. It was my mother in laws cooking for the first few years! LOL
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***I had never heard of a child being on restriction for months...thats ridiculous...
the longest restriction I heard was a week or two.
You are mistaken. Yes it is ridiculous, and it does happen. My son was on restriction the better part of his first 4 months. And was frequently on restriction for the duration of his time there for petty and minor infractions- ocassionaly due to the fabrications of others who were required to 'fall out' on their peers. One week of restriction strings into the next until you?ve been on restriction for months. I was ?warned? to expect that he might get sick on our first off-campus visit? Why might that happen if he?d been consuming the appropriate calories and a variety of food? 'Might' get sick? He was already sick. I spent my entire visit with him treating diarrhea that he'd had for three days. He was very thin and his skin was dry and gray, like a lizard. He looked like a refuge. Madame, that is not ?therapy?. It?s abuse and neglect of a sadistic nature.
***And it wasnt only cheese sandwiches.
Yes, cheese sandwich, a cup-of-soup, and a piece of fruit for lunch and dinner for extended periods of time. And while ?a week? of this won?t ?kill anybody?, as you say, it is in violation of Georgia regulations for RTCs, which states:
1) A child can not be denied meals as punishment.
2) Meals must follow the USDA Child Care Food Program requirements.
The Food For Fitness Program with Wilderness Programs or excessive exertion.
3) Meals and snacks must vary daily.
4) Additional servings must be offered, above the standard requirements.
It matters not whether it was for a week or months, it is wrong to limit calories and variety of food as a form of punishment for any length of time. I would think the other aspect of restriction were more than sufficient punishment? No contact with peers, no talking unless spoken to, out of the dorm early for PT, manual labor to fill all free time, no reading for pleasure, not allowed into the dorm until 9pm. Not to mention, limited time to eat, and taking meals outside the cafeteria on the curb, and further punishment if you didn?t toss your plate when trash came by. Why tamper with their nutritional sustenance? There is no justification for this.
***And by the way, what kid eats more than 2 boxes of cereal for breakfast?
You apparently are not aware of how much growing boys consume. Two small boxes of cereal would be an appetizer in my home. USDA recommends 2,800 calories a day for teen boys. More if there is excessive physical exertion or exposure to the elements.
***And they do have a nutrionally balanced menu now. Ive personally eaten at the school probably more than 50 times and thought it was fine. It was my mother in laws cooking for the first few years! LOL
50 times in 7 years? That doesn?t constitute much observation. Was HLA required to fire your mother-in-law and hire the catering company to provide those ?nutritionally balanced? menus? The food situation definitely improved after the Office of Regulatory Services completed their investigation, based on the feedback I've received. It doesn?t excuse the fact that HLA flew under the radar and violated those regs for 7-8 years prior to being forced to change. I would think that any reasonable person in the business of housing children 24/7/365 would educate themselves about the nutritional requirements for teens and the regulations in the state they are operating. Anything short of that would imply a covert agenda. At $5,000+ per month, there is not excuse for not feeding the kids properly.
Please show me any research that supports the notion that using food as punishment is a useful and humane thing to do. It's not even allowed in prisons.
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My mother in law was not fired, she moved back to her home state. And she switched her job description from the kitchen to another department several years before she quit. As far as restriction diets, the kids eat what the other kids are eating in the food line, and have been for several years. And I have a teenage boy myself, who is overweight, and if he ate that many calories in one day he would gain even more weight. I am FULLY aware of dietary needs, I have 2 children currently and raised 2 others. If your son was sick, I am sorry for that, but I doubt it was due to the cheese sandwiches and soup. Alot of the information you people are posting and reading on here are old practices AND exagerations. Why dont you find some people who post about the good things that have come about with the kids? Like some of the ones I met who came out of the program with a new respect for themselves and others and who went onto ivy league schools? You are judging an ENTIRE program based on employees who were fired for not behaving appropriately and a few bad experiences, and that my dear, is unfair.
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You are judging an ENTIRE program based on employees who were fired for not behaving appropriately and a few bad experiences, and that my dear, is unfair."
I think YOU are whitewashing a whole program, simply by saying there were a few Bad Apples and they were promptly fired. This does not seem realistic to me.
I AM judging the ENTIRE program by the long-term pattern of lying. Our Anonymous parent obviously was not told of her son's restrictions, health, or diet during the first several months of his stay at HLA. In fact, she says she was told he was doing, basically, fine. To warn of impending sickness on a visitation is Covering Your Ass, bigtime. This is an unbelievable warning from the school that is supposed to act as a surrogate parent. Can you imagine picking up your kid from his joint-custody "other parent" and having the stepmom tell you he may throw up on the plane, but "Don't Worry, he's just not used to FOOD". Unbelievable that you would condone and excuse such a condition from a school to which you are entrusting your child.
If you raised a total of 4 children, did you often feed the whole family at the dinner table, and set one kid off on the front porch with a paper plate of Spaghetti-O's and an apple because he rolled his eyes when you told him to take out the trash? Did you make scrambled eggs, toast, and applesauce for Sunday breakfast, except for the one kid who failed to completely clean his room...and who was sent out to the porch with two boxes of cereal [2 boxes Frosted Flakes = 2¼ oz. cereal + ½ cup milk = 240 calories]. Was this a common form of punishment in YOUR house? If so, maybe that's why you think it's OK in a very expensive, totally unaccountable boarding school situation. I'm convinced that, if you did this to your child in your home, Child Protective Services would be on you like snot on a stick, especially if your child showed up in his school with a palid complexion, lethargic, and downright sick. Oh, and Lady, if you think your fat teenager gets fat eating a little bit more cereal, milk, and fruit, you're nuts. It ain't the cereal and milk that's making him a candidate for public medical assistance in the next decade.
HLA lies, hides, and excuses, and you are guilty of protecting the whole shady system, finding an occasional whipping boy-employee who *individually* is responsible for many children in the school not receiving food in accordance with USDA nutriontional guidelines. You're disgusting, my dear.
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Several years? How long exactly? And why did that change ocur, in your opinion? Given, that you apparently see nothing wrong with the 'previous' restriction diet.
I don't mean to be rude, but if your son is overweight, how much do you really know about proper nutrition? There is a difference between 2800 calories of nutritious food and 2800 calories of junk food with no nutrition. Usually results in overweight. Perhaps you should consider one of the new 'fat farm' programs, where I'm sure the calories are severly limited.
Please don't attempt to tell me what I observed with my own eyes. My son was sick, and while it may not have been directly related to having eaten inadequate nutrition (cheese sandwiches) for months, that situation certainly would create a condition that made him more prone to illness. Too many cheese and white bread sandwiches also resulted in him becoming dependent on flonase in order to breath. Never was a problem before. Where are the fresh vegetables? The two tablespoons that might have been in the cup of soup are inadequate. Two slices of american cheese does not provide adequate protein. Do you know the consequences of inadequate protein? Do you know how it affects one's ability to think and process information?
And don't pretend to know how long my son was on restriction. I have a very lengthy journal of his time there and the numerous weekly calls reporting that he was yet again, on restriction.
I don't know any kids who had a good experience. And I seriously doubt that you genuinely know how these kids are doing. How their social life is, how their relationships with their parents are, how they honestly feel about having lost two years of their lives. And chances are good, they wouldn't tell you the truth, because that is how they have been conditioned. Not to complain.
No shh, you have totally misperceived. I am not judging an 'ENTIRE' program "based on employees who were fired for not behaving appropriately and a few bad experiences". I am challenging the very foundation- the structure and nature of the program and their methods (which by the way are taught to the employees). I believe it to be flawed by design. The majority of my complaints are toward the program, as I know very little about the individuals, except the few I had direct contact with.
This is something one might expect from a program owner who was previously a used car salesman, but inexcusable given that the owner is a psych professional. He, of all people, should know better. I would be please to no end to hear him 'justify' the restriction diet. I gave several staff the opportunity to do so. They declined. The headmaster described it to parents as 'sparse' and 'approved by the health dept'. Both blatant lies, shh.
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Further, I'd like to add that I think you are an excellent representation of the average program staff who would observe kids eating cheese and white bread for extended periods of time- but be so enamored by the program or attached to your livelihood- that you wouldn't report it to the appropriate authorities.
In that regard, you too Ms Shh, are guilty of the neglect these kids endured. Any rational adult should know that this is not right.
But, yes, I can hear your defense... restriction was only for a week. True the average restriction was a week, and how many weeks strung togther to results in months? Too many.
And 50 visits to the cafeteria in 7 years hardly qualifies you to defend how long anyone was on restriction. You were an occassional guest, not making daily or even weekly observations.
In your defense, perhaps you were told that restriction was only a week and happened infrequently. If that is the case, you should take your own advice and stop speaking from a place of authority as one who knows the intimate details. You are obviously presenting things as fact that you have no real knowledge of. And you have the nerve to accuse others of lying and exaggerating. You may have to restructure the images in your mind. All was not well, and I am not the only person who will attest to that.
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You people really need to chill out LOL...
Anyway, I have a question to pose to you. How old is the information you are posting here about the school? Do you know about changes made over the past 5 or 6 years? I do. Do you know about staff who were fired? or staff who were hired? Do you know specifically who supposedly abused the kids? Do you know what is going on at the school RIGHT NOW? What I find unfair, in my opinion, is that some of the posters here are using old situations over 5 yrs old to state that the school is unfit and unsafe. Ever heard of "growing pains"? Ever heard of improving a program? Maybe they already have addressed whatever concerns you guys might have had in the past. Maybe whatever was going wrong has been fixed. Wouldnt that be enough for you guys? Or would you rather slander the whole school and its employees based on old policies, disgruntled ex employees, and exagerations? I stand by my PERSONAL experiences at the school. It was my home after all.
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Who needs to 'chill out'? Have you ever heard that you don't answer a question with a question?
Now would be a good time to practice that if you want anyone to answer the questions you posed. If you are afraid of passionate discussion, you're in the wrong place. Or you should avoid certain people. That would include making any comments to them directly or indirectly.
If you're just here to ::bigmouth:: and avoid serious discussion, you won't be taken seriously or given much respect. Your credibility rating, so far, has taken a dive with each new post.
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Look, I really dont care what you think is credible or not, and I have been posting on various boards for over 8 years, so Im not looking for "acceptance". The reason I posted here was to give MY side of experience at HLA. Like I said..I LIVED there..it was my home for 4 years, from 1997-to Feb of 2001. All I am sharing is my view of what I saw at the school. You guys are just upset that I can come up with positive things about the school. I am posting my opinion of things, just like you guys are...and youre slamming me for it. The only "offensive" thing I posted was that some of you are exaggerating things youve either experienced or heard through the grapevine. Especially the "toxic" thing about the lake. That lake is fed by a stream that comes from inside the national forest. The school is surrounded on 3 sides by it. There is nothing toxic about it. I have eaten probably 30 fish out of there as have my husband and kids. If YOU guys want credibility, look at your own posts and think about what is true and what is heresay. My opinion of the school is only from the time frame of when I was there. I am not saying ALL of this on here is lies or anything, but since I KNOW some of it be, you guys dont have much credibility with ME either....alls fair in....etc etc...
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And like other program supporters, you come here and accuse others of lying and/or exaggerating, but when confronted with proving your claim, you disengage and move to generalities, claim you are only here to share your experience and are being attacked by disgruntled people.
You have not just shared your experience. You have accused other of lying/exaggerating. I would like to see some validation of that. And remember, just because you didn't see it with your own eyes or hear it with your own ears, doesn't mean that it didn't happen.
The 'question' about the lake was genuine. If it had been an accusation it would have been stated as such. That was an easy one. You avoid the more difficult questions.
You asked others 'how old' the info they were sharing is and suggest that that it was five years old or older. What did you base that comment on?
I hear that you would like to be considered an authority on HLA because 'it was your home' for 4 years. If you really want to defend the program, answer the questions posed to you and refrain from making accusations about other that you can't back up.
If you walk into someone's house and accuse them of being liars, chances are good that you're going to be confronted or asked to leave. Why does the response surprise you?
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I have answered all the questions you guys have posed..which one didnt I answer? and I never said I was an authority...but neither are you...I am sharing MY side of my view of the school....you just dont like what Im saying. What do you want me to share about my experiences? ask me a specific question..and I will try to answer it. Specifically, I was associated with the school from its inception. My ex has been there over 10 years. I know Dr. B personally. I was neighbors with Greg Lindsey, Mike Witherspoon, John Semley, Meredith Burns, and Lee Parham. My ex mother and father in law worked at the school for 6 yrs. I lived on campus in a house by the townhouses for 4 years. My kids sledded with the students down the big hill when it snowed. I participated in the bonfires. I watched the plays, I ate in the cafeteria, I spent almost every thanksgiving dinner with the students in the cafeteria, I fished in the lake, played in the stream, watched most of the buildings being built. When the ice storm shut down the electricity for 5 days in 2000, my husband spent 18 hrs a day helping to get generators set up, gas from town, kitchen up and running, getting all the kids in the dorms with fireplaces. What i know about the school is from a resident point of view. NO I dont know that much about specific counselors or which ones were good and which werent bad, but I know about some that were fired and some admin people fired like Rudy and Jill and Dean and Laura Lynn. If I cant answer specific detailed questions it is because I cant remember very detail from 4-10 years ago, but I am sharing what I do remember. What I see here though is when I am posting about positive experiences that I saw at the school, you people think I have an agenda. What I am sharing is what I saw good at the school. I never saw or heard about kids being abused, or malnourished, or neglected. Its like you cant imagine anything good about the school. Ask me a specific question and I will try to answer. I dont see where I havent answered anything to the best of my ability.
OH and by the way, The reason I know some of the info you people are saying on here is old, is because the kids havent eaten cheese sandwiches on restriction for over 3 years. But you make it sound as if its still going on, and its not. So think not only about MY credibility, but your own as well.
[ This Message was edited by: SHH on 2005-02-17 05:35 ]
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You claim to be willing to answer questions. Let?s recap. I know this is lengthy and will require your diligent attention, but it?s your opportunity to clarify some of your incongruent statements and possibly redeem your credibility.
First, who said that kids on restriction are still eating cheese sandwiches?
You said, ?I also witnessed kids making up stuff about counselors that I knew were lies personally to try to get out of the school?.
**Who, when, and how did you KNOW they were lying?
You said, ?I personally was a witness to the school for 7 years and yes they are licensed, and accredited by several organizations now?. You said elsewhere, ?Hidden Lake Academy was my HOME for 4 of the 7 years I was associated with the school?
**?Personal witness? for 4 or 7 years? Was ?7? and exaggeration?
Who is HLA licensed by? Please post the link that would prove this. They state that they are ?accredited? by two organizations. What does ?accredited? mean?
You said, ?But overall, I never saw abuse, or harassment, or neglect?.
**You admitted to knowing that the kids were given inadequate calories and variety while on restriction. That is neglect. There was obviously a problem with this, otherwise they would not have been required to change it. You were asked previously ?why HLA had to make this change?. You didn?t respond.
You claim kids haven?t eaten cheese sandwiches in over 3 years, and that?s how you know people are posted ?old? information.
Close perhaps, but my son ate them as recently as late 2001.
You were also asked, ?Would you like to give a shot at defending white bread and cheese sandwiches for potentially weeks or months on end? Would you subject your own child to that?? You didn?t respond.
And, ?Do you know the consequences of inadequate protein? Do you know how it affects one's ability to think and process information??
And, ?Was there a dietician when your mil was cook? Or who instructed her on what and how much to prepare and how to determine if it was nutritionally adequate??
You were also given this opportunity, ?Please show me any research that supports the notion that using food as punishment is a useful and humane thing to do. It's not even allowed in prisons?.You didn?t respond except to imply that restriction only last a week and is occasional. That is inaccurate. A blatant lie, or exaggeration, or second-hand information?
You said, ?They werent even allowed to restrain the kids if they ran away off campus?.
**Are you implying that kids were/are not restrained at HLA or that they weren?t restrained when they attempted to run away? Would you be willing to testify under oath that you are absolutely positive that no child was ever restrained at HLA? Hint: you can?t by your own admission.
You said, ?Rudy and Jill were flakes, and were fired because of it?
You were asked, ?Rudy and Jill were fired because they were "flakes"? Ummmm.... wasn't there anything more substantial than that? What did they do that got them fired??
To which you responded, ?I dont remember the specifics of the direct reason they were fired. I just remember alot of folks were glad when they left? and ?I didnt like him, or his wife? and ?since I did not like Rudy, I didnt hang around with him either? and ?So I dont know much about the guy personally other thatn he lived next door to me?.
And that you knew nothing about the more recent headmaster who was there when you claim to have been, ?As far as Greg Lindsey, professionaly I dont know how he behaved. I knew him through living next door to him and his children playing with mine, so my experience was more on a neighbor sort of level.?
When a program is unlicensed, therefore unmonitored or regulated by the state, it is incumbent on the Owner and/or Director to ensure that the policies of the program are being implimented correctly and that kids aren't being mistreated. If Rudy was there two years, and acting inappropriately, what took Dr B so long to get rid of him? Apparently everyone else disliked him and knew what he was doing.
You asked, ?Why dont you find some people who post about the good things that have come about with the kids? Like some of the ones I met who came out of the program with a new respect for themselves and others and who went onto ivy league schools??
**No one here is obligated to find those who are happy with their experience. You certainly are welcome to share about the kid(s) you knew personally. What problems s/he had before HLA. What problem s/he overcame? Which Ivy League college s/he is attending/attended? How often do you speak with this person now?
You asked, ?Do you know about changes made over the past 5 or 6 years? Do you know what is going on at the school RIGHT NOW??
**Do you? Or would you be sharing second-hand information from people who are there and have a vested interest in presenting it in the best light? And elsewhere you divulge, ?I knew ALOT about what went on at the school, while I was associated with it. That was from 1994-2000. I can't speak about anything that may have happened after that because I wouldnt have known the details.? Isn?t the latter more accurate?
FYI, Some of the changes have been reported here by others than yourself.
You asked, ?Ever heard of "growing pains"?
**This is not a case of 'growing pains'. When a program intentionally avoids state licensing and regulations by claiming to be a boarding school, yet advertises to the public as a therapeutic facility... that just smacks of fraud. And if HLA were operating with a license and in compliance with regulations, many of the things that posters here are complaining about, wouldn't have happened. State regs provide guidelines for policies and procedures designed to prevent new facilities from making common mistakes. How arrogant to make the kids guinea pigs for their 'growing pains'.
You asked, ?Ever heard of improving a program? Maybe they already have addressed whatever concerns you guys might have had in the past. Maybe whatever was going wrong has been fixed. Wouldnt that be enough for you guys? Or would you rather slander the whole school and its employees based on old policies, disgruntled ex employees, and exaggerations?
**?Slander? is a strong word. Can you prove that anyone here has done so?
Positive changes are welcomed. I personally won?t be satisfied until they are properly classified as an RTC and monitored by the state on a regular basis; until kids there have reasonable access to a public phone without being monitored or censored; until kids have a right to contact their parents and say what they think- freely without fear of punishment; until their mail is not censored; for starters.
You were given the opportunity to identify which posters you feel are lying/exaggerating and have chosen not to. You are making general claims and refuse to address specifics. In the event that you haven't read it, here's the link:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=80#82739 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=80#82739)
I?ll ask again here:
Would you be so kind as to assign each of the people posting here to the category to which you KNOW they belong?
And the categories are:
some people have an agenda to slander the school because they were fired.
Others are kids who didnt like being put there against their will and want to exagerate what their experiences were.
Other people are parents arent happy with what the program couldnt do for their child.
And still others are only stating what they "heard" from someone else.
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I graduated from HLA in 2004 and I saw with my own eyes what you are all discussing. The food served at HLA is unhealthy. Most meals contain at least one or more deep fried dishes and a miniscule selection of food not containing meat. The salad bar looked dangerous and the sandwich meat would often sit out uncovered from breakfast till dinner. The cafeteria reeked of rot and during the summer flies were everywhere. During weekday lunches, most of the counselors and teachers would come and eat in the cafeteria with us (many of whom brought food from home) and greatly exceeded the seating capacity, forcing many students to eat standing up.
The worst part of all of this was the hunger. Whenever we were given trash duty on restictions, everybody would almost jump out of their seats for the oppurtunity. Those lucky enough to be picked would then race up to the dumpsters and rummage through them for food. I know this because i used to do it. A lot of the students would sign up for community service just so that they could eat leftovers at the soup kitchens. It's kind of funny, I realized the other day that after going to HLA I am very protective of my food. I have to remind myself constantly that I don't need to eat as much as i can whenever i have the oppurtunity because I'm not at HLA anymore. Eating is no longer a privelage.
The last thing i want to say is just that whather or not it's healthy or of sufficient quanity, the food at HLA is atrocious. I know that this is not a major issue but i just want to mention it. If, as a parent you visited the school and everything seemed decent, it's because you're there. The school is very different whenever parents are there. They usually take all of the kids who are on restrictions and send them off into the woods with one water bottle each and a little bagged lunch. The rest of the students are assigned to partake in designated activities all over campus for the day. Ask you're child what he or she was doing on grandparents weekend and im sure he/she'll tell you the same thing. After Leaving Hidden Lake all i wanted to do was forget it but now i want to tell people what it's really like. i will be checking this site regularly now so if you have any questions, please ask.
One other thing. The restrictions thing is mostly true. I say mostly because it used to happen a lot. Even when i first got to the school, people could be on restrictions for as long as three to four months without being sent away. Towars the end of 2002 though they started a policy that if you were on restrictions for i think it was either a whole month or 25 days, you would be sent to ridge creek.
I hope this helped a bit.
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I did some research...and found that the last time the Health Dept did their inspection on the kitchen, the grade was a 97. That was 5 months ago. Inspections are required and are done by the Health Dept. approximately every 3-6 months, on a random basis. This has been the case ever since I lived there.(The mandatory random inspections). Id have to say that 97 is a pretty good grade(A+).
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What is the HD looking at when they conduct and inspection?
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When I was there and my mother in law worked in the kitchen, they looked at the equipment and whether it was working properly, looked at the dishwasher and the temperature it was washing at, the food in the cooler, the utensils, the ovens, the floor, the dumpster area, the eating area, the foodline and its equipment, the lighting, ceiling tiles, fans, and maybe other things, but that was what I remember from those inspections. And its a state requirement that the grade be posted in a conspicuous place just like in restaurants.
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OK i have to call bullsh*t on a lot of this! Don't hide behind the anonymous tag, give a peer group or initials... first of all, the food is gathered and either tossed or covered an put in a cold box (which yes has passed the heath code inspection for temperture, etc); while a lot of the meals contain a fried selection, it is not the only choice, ever and there is always a vegetarian selection along with a nicely stocked salad bar, lunch meat bar, assortment of breads, cheese selection, fresh fruit and other healthier alternatives. noted, there are usually a few more carbs then those who do the atkins thing would like.
as far as the flys and the "stench", any time there is food there are flies, they are not in the cafeteria and are usually around the trash that is outside after the meals waiting to be taken to the dumpster, yes by the students who usually have EARNED work assignements for doing silly stupid things - its called consequences, some of you parents may want to commit that word to memory, perhaps then you would not need these types of schools!
The counselors and teacher and staff members do eat in the lodge either before or with the student body and i have RARELY seen anyone bring their own food unless they were dieting. They are asked to do so to be with the student body and be available for counseling help or academic help...there is more than enough seating for the entire student body plus staff. NO ONE IS EVER REQUIRED DUE TO CROWDING TO STAND TO EAT! that comment is ridiculous...the students are actually required to be seated durning meals, they can get up and move around freely, so hold the comments about making them keep seated or whatever you are thinking. As for students "jumping at the chance to do trash duty" first off, again it is a consequence, second, there is a staff member present during the trash runs to assure student safety and they would never and are never allowed to "pick through" the garbage, especially to eat!! that again is just silly! as well as untrue.
to be eligible for doing community service you have to meet certain criteria, to do any off campus events (activities, community service, etc) you have to be eligible and yes, some kids sign up to do these things to get the chance to get off campus, but to eat? no, not true. again it is called "giving back" which most of these kids have never had to do...most of them just take and their parents give...money, gifts, cars, etc...not usually time, restrictions, consequences and then they send their kids to schools like this at 17 and over and expect them to "do something to make them stay" when they turn 18...when you don't ever tell your kid no, it is hard to start at 16!!
sure, some kids maybe don't need to be there but most of them have truly earned their spots! and some need an even more restrictive program and there are folks out there who are grateful for those, too!
There is one truth i did see in this comment and that is if a student serves to many days on restrictions they are recommended to go to ridge creek. but it is an exorbanent amount of days!
OH and as for "if, as a parent you visited the school and everything seemed decent, it's because you're there. The school is very different whenever parents are there. They usually take all of the kids who are on restrictions and send them off into the woods with one water bottle each and a little bagged lunch. The rest of the students are assigned to partake in designated activities all over campus for the day." TOTALLY UNTRUE! there are parents and other visitors that come to the school at all different days and times of day. they look at the school, the grounds, the cafeteria, the infirmary, the gym and even experience the cafeteria during meal times...unannounced!! the staff and students do no know when they are having tours. the only time the school does the special visit days where activities are planned are days like grandparents day so that other family members can see that the school is not a lock down or basement facility! the thought that everyone's days could be disrupted to "put on some kind of act" is again a silly statement.
and yes, they changed the restrictions policy because obviously a child who spends an incredible amount of days on restrictions, just isn't getting it and sometimes needs a different type of intervention to help get their attention.
i know that there will be backlash, but i don't care, what i have said is true up to THIS day!
so come on nay sayers...bring it on!
On 2005-02-17 17:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I graduated from HLA in 2004 and I saw with my own eyes what you are all discussing. The food served at HLA is unhealthy. Most meals contain at least one or more deep fried dishes and a miniscule selection of food not containing meat. The salad bar looked dangerous and the sandwich meat would often sit out uncovered from breakfast till dinner. The cafeteria reeked of rot and during the summer flies were everywhere. During weekday lunches, most of the counselors and teachers would come and eat in the cafeteria with us (many of whom brought food from home) and greatly exceeded the seating capacity, forcing many students to eat standing up.
The worst part of all of this was the hunger. Whenever we were given trash duty on restictions, everybody would almost jump out of their seats for the oppurtunity. Those lucky enough to be picked would then race up to the dumpsters and rummage through them for food. I know this because i used to do it. A lot of the students would sign up for community service just so that they could eat leftovers at the soup kitchens. It's kind of funny, I realized the other day that after going to HLA I am very protective of my food. I have to remind myself constantly that I don't need to eat as much as i can whenever i have the oppurtunity because I'm not at HLA anymore. Eating is no longer a privelage.
The last thing i want to say is just that whather or not it's healthy or of sufficient quanity, the food at HLA is atrocious. I know that this is not a major issue but i just want to mention it. If, as a parent you visited the school and everything seemed decent, it's because you're there. The school is very different whenever parents are there. They usually take all of the kids who are on restrictions and send them off into the woods with one water bottle each and a little bagged lunch. The rest of the students are assigned to partake in designated activities all over campus for the day. Ask you're child what he or she was doing on grandparents weekend and im sure he/she'll tell you the same thing. After Leaving Hidden Lake all i wanted to do was forget it but now i want to tell people what it's really like. i will be checking this site regularly now so if you have any questions, please ask.
One other thing. The restrictions thing is mostly true. I say mostly because it used to happen a lot. Even when i first got to the school, people could be on restrictions for as long as three to four months without being sent away. Towars the end of 2002 though they started a policy that if you were on restrictions for i think it was either a whole month or 25 days, you would be sent to ridge creek.
I hope this helped a bit."
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Ok Im going to attempt to answer your questions as best I can...here goes:
"First, who said that kids on restriction are still eating cheese sandwiches?"
What I was trying to say was that some of these posts were IMPLYING that the kids still eat differently from the others. But they dont and havent for a long time. For over 3 years now. And I believe the reason for that was that they were keeping the restriction kids seperated from the others and sandwiches were something easily transported to another part of campus.
"You said, ?I also witnessed kids making up stuff about counselors that I knew were lies personally to try to get out of the school?.
**Who, when, and how did you KNOW they were lying?"
I dont remember who or specifically when but I do remember SEVERAL circumstances where Students would accuse staff of doing this or that when it was later found out that the staff werent even on duty that particular time, etc. OMG teenagers lying! What a concept! LOL Remember I have one....he will be 16 in August, so I know all about teenagers and their behavior patterns...and most of it is to be expected of that age group really.No big shock there.
"**?Personal witness? for 4 or 7 years? Was ?7? and exaggeration?"
Ok this one is a no brainer and Ive answered it already...I was associated with the school as the spouse of one of it's main employees for 6 years and 8 months(almost 7 yrs)..the 4 years I referenced was the actual time I lived on campus...and to be specific, it was 3 years and 10 months that I lived on campus in the house next to the townhouses.
"Who is HLA licensed by? Please post the link that would prove this. They state that they are ?accredited? by two organizations. What does ?accredited? mean?"
These are the two organizations they list on their website and I believe one other something like the Georgia private school association or something like that..but not sure their specific name.GEORGIA ACCREDITATION COMMISSION & SOUTHERN ASSOCIATION OF COLLEGES AND SCHOOLS. Also "accredited" means: To recognize (an institution of learning) as maintaining those standards requisite for its graduates to gain admission to other reputable institutions of higher learning or to achieve credentials for professional practice."
You said, ?But overall, I never saw abuse, or harassment, or neglect?.
**You admitted to knowing that the kids were given inadequate calories and variety while on restriction. That is neglect. There was obviously a problem with this, otherwise they would not have been required to change it. You were asked previously ?why HLA had to make this change?. You didn?t respond
I didnt see neglect or abuse or harassment, and I still dont feel that sandwiches, soup, fruit, juice and milk constitute neglect...they were fed and nobody starved to death or were malnourished. As far as why they changed it I dont know I wasnt privy to that information. But I do know they changed and the kids get the food off the foodline but I think they still go outside..but not sure about that.
"You claim kids haven?t eaten cheese sandwiches in over 3 years, and that?s how you know people are posted ?old? information.
Close perhaps, but my son ate them as recently as late 2001"
Well late 2001 was over 3 years ago...if they changed it 3 years ago that would be logical that he still ate them 3 years and 4 months ago?
"Would you subject your own child to that?? You didn?t respond."
Well since I dont feel that eating sandwiches and soup for a few weeks was neglect and my child needed discipline and part of that discipline meant not getting fried chicken or dessert or cheeseburgers for a few weeks then so be it.
And, ?Do you know the consequences of inadequate protein? Do you know how it affects one's ability to think and process information??
Yes I do know the consequences of inadequate protein...but since no child was ever taken to the hospital as malnourished as you CLAIM they were...it sure doesnt sound as if they were deprived of food so badly to lead them to affect their brains. Starvation does that...they werent starved.
And, ?Was there a dietician when your mil was cook? Or who instructed her on what and how much to prepare and how to determine if it was nutritionally adequate??
I dont specifically remember who set the menu for the school in the early days if they had a dietician or recommendation list..but my mother in law worked for literally years in a public school cafeteria and knew all about dietary needs for children so on her own I believe she was probably qualified..and being the parent of 3 kids and 8 grandchildren as well I am SURE she knows how to feed a family with children. She was no dummy thats for sure.
"You were also given this opportunity, ?Please show me any research that supports the notion that using food as punishment is a useful and humane thing to do. It's not even allowed in prisons?.You didn?t respond except to imply that restriction only last a week and is occasional. That is inaccurate. A blatant lie, or exaggeration, or second-hand information?"
Since I dont believe that they were using food as punishment, simply to make their meals more simple isnt punishment, I dont have to show research that supports that notion since thats not what they were doing. And I didnt imply that restrictions only lasted a week..they normally do only last a week...if they keep misbehaving or something else happens I understand they get another set of restrictions, but as someone else pointed out..eventually they get sent to Ridge Creek if they dont get the point. And since I wasnt a counselor, I did get information second hand...but everybody including you is getting information second hand..so you cant discredit it can you, because you werent a counselor or on campus either.
" You said, ?They werent even allowed to restrain the kids if they ran away off campus?.
**Are you implying that kids were/are not restrained at HLA or that they weren?t restrained when they attempted to run away? Would you be willing to testify under oath that you are absolutely positive that no child was ever restrained at HLA? Hint: you can?t by your own admission"
They were not allowed to restrain the kids it is a hands off facility...anybody restraining kids was reprimanded or fired....the ONLY time I ever heard about it being allowed...in the policy..was if a child was maybe trying to hurt themselves with a sharp object or getting ready to hit another child. It is a hands off facility and it is in their policy. Runaways could only be followed in a car and once they got off campus it was REQUIRED that they call the sheriffs office. They werent doing it to be mean to the kids..it was for their own safety. Any kook out there could pick up the kids on the main road and if they ran away at night there were bears and bobcats and coyotes that would make walking down a dark mountain road quite dangerous. I know all about the critters there was a bear that used to sit on my garbage can on my back deck and eat his midnight snack! But he eventually left for greener pastures.
"You said, ?Rudy and Jill were flakes, and were fired because of it?
You were asked, ?Rudy and Jill were fired because they were "flakes"? Ummmm.... wasn't there anything more substantial than that? What did they do that got them fired??
They were flakes..but I dont specifically remember the one incident that got them fired. I am sure I knew at that time but dont remember now. I just remember that they werent what the owner wanted for his school but that he probably didnt realize that at first. You would have to call up Dr B and ask him, I bet he would remember the specifics.
"And that you knew nothing about the more recent headmaster who was there when you claim to have been, ?As far as Greg Lindsey, professionaly I dont know how he behaved. I knew him through living next door to him and his children playing with mine, so my experience was more on a neighbor sort of level"
Not sure why you dont like my statement here..I never heard anything specifically bad about Greg...and I really didnt know about his professional behavior because I never heard anybody complain about it...but I knew him more on a social level like at christmas parties..work retreats...cookouts with the neighbors..that sort of thing..and his son played with my kids and his daughter babysat a few times too. But he was there a long time so I can only assume he was ok as an employee and ok at his job.
"When a program is unlicensed, therefore unmonitored or regulated by the state, it is incumbent on the Owner and/or Director to ensure that the policies of the program are being implimented correctly and that kids aren't being mistreated. If Rudy was there two years, and acting inappropriately, what took Dr B so long to get rid of him? Apparently everyone else disliked him and knew what he was doing."
When a program is new...it has to operate a certain length of time to become accredited..and get observed...I remember it being accredited by an organization fairly early on but dont remember which one...and it was monitored by the state..the health department for one..and other groups as well...as far as when Rudy was fired...I am sure it was done as soon as Dr B felt it was necessary..but once again...you need to talk to him about the specifics...Dr B is extremely professional and careful and I bet you could get your answers there.
I dont know any of the kids now.....but I knew some then...I remember a kid early on named Brian who really got along well with my mother in law and father in law..good kid...very bright..and certainly didnt seem unhappy...and a girl named Devon who we talked to quite a bit..and I remember some kids being glad to be at the school because their homelife was so awful. I remember the school going out and buying extra christmas present to give to the kids on Christmas who's parents wouldnt send gifts...so they wouldnt feel left out...and they would special things for those students so they wouldnt feel bad...does that sound like an abusive environment to YOU?
"*Do you? Or would you be sharing second-hand information from people who are there and have a vested interest in presenting it in the best light? And elsewhere you divulge, ?I knew ALOT about what went on at the school, while I was associated with it. That was from 1994-2000. I can't speak about anything that may have happened after that because I wouldnt have known the details.? Isn?t the latter more accurate?
FYI, Some of the changes have been reported here by others than yourself."
No I dont know FIRST hand what is happening there...so yes its second hand...but so is what you are talking about...and the people that I talk to dont LIE. I am telling you what I know..and what I dont know....some things i know..and some I dont...I am not telling you anything that I dont know to be the truth.
**This is not a case of 'growing pains'. When a program intentionally avoids state licensing and regulations by claiming to be a boarding school, yet advertises to the public as a therapeutic facility... that just smacks of fraud. And if HLA were operating with a license and in compliance with regulations, many of the things that posters here are complaining about, wouldn't have happened. State regs provide guidelines for policies and procedures designed to prevent new facilities from making common mistakes. How arrogant to make the kids guinea pigs for their 'growing pains'.
First of all..if a school decides that a practice isnt worked like they thought..or its not getting results...they change it..its called improvement...and thats what all schools do..DUH...the kids werent guinea pigs..they benefited from any changes made I am sure...but nobody intentionally opened that school to make kids guinea pigs...and secondly..nobody intentially avoided regulatioins..they were trying to get organizations to accredit them so how is that avoidance??? another DUH and it IS a therapeutic facility...they have counseling and NA meetings and AA meetings and therapeutic programs and rewards and they do community service and do things for the poor in the area and the elderly.
**?Slander? is a strong word. Can you prove that anyone here has done so?
Positive changes are welcomed. I personally won?t be satisfied until they are properly classified as an RTC and monitored by the state on a regular basis; until kids there have reasonable access to a public phone without being monitored or censored; until kids have a right to contact their parents and say what they think- freely without fear of punishment; until their mail is not censored; for starters.
Slander is when you post "heresay" and things you arent sure about and detrimentally hurt someones reputation..and yes...slander is what I have seen some of you post...so its not a harsh word..its what I am seeing. And the school is monitored by the state..no school that big can be run without being monitored. And as far as having access to a public phone..do you know what happens when you give teenagers access to a public phone??? I do....they call their boyfriends and meet them out at the road and run away with them. Yes its happened..so dont tell me that wouldnt happen. You cant give teens who have a history of running away and getting into trouble access freely to a phone. It makes no logical sense. And if they were in that much fear of their lives I am sure they could find someone to tell their fears to...you make it sound as if not a single counselor or employee is trustworthy..and they have over 160 employees!
Ok theres your answers....feel free to PICK through my statements once again and find fault with my views.
And by the way if I dont answer as FAST as you would like...its not because I am AFRAID to answer..it is because I take care of 2 children, a disabled husband, a disabled father, a 101 yr old grandfather, and I also work fulltime, and I dont have alot of FREE time.
font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SHH on 2005-02-19 14:40 ]
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Lets take some time to clear up a few of the manipulations Shh has tride.
1. But I also witnessed kids making up stuff about counselors that I knew were lies personally to try to get out of the school
She makes mention of this yet fails to mention wittnessing any counsolers lying to parents in order to keep their child in the school.
2. But overall, I never saw abuse, or harassment, or neglect.
She must have had her eyes closed for 4-7 years.
3. They werent even allowed to restrain the kids if they ran away off campus.
True the policy was not to restrain kids off campus, on campus however was fair game.
4.ded with my children and the students down the big hill when it snowed
The students had no sleds, they could have been used as weapons, along with toilet paper.
5. ...I had never heard of a child being on restriction for months...thats ridiculous...the longest restriction I heard was a week or two.
She claims to have never heard of this, perhaps she simply chooses not to acknowledge it. I personally had a roommate who was on restriction for seven months without a break.
6. As far as restriction diets, the kids eat what the other kids are eating in the food line, and have been for several years.
This is a lie. Students on restriction get two travel boxes of cereal and a carton of milk. For lunch and dinner they get a single cheese sandwich and a bowl of soup. Fruit and seconds are handed out at the drill srgnts. discretion to whom they deem worthy of food.
7.Maybe they already have addressed whatever concerns you guys might have had in the past. Maybe whatever was going wrong has been fixed. Wouldnt that be enough for you guys? Or would you rather slander the whole school and its employees based on old policies, disgruntled ex employees, and exagerations? I stand by my PERSONAL experiences at the school. It was my home after all.
If this was true why are more and more people coming out stating the same things people were complaining about when the place first opened? I stand by my PERSONAL experiences at the school. It was my prison after all.
8.You guys are just upset that I can come up with positive things about the school. I am posting my opinion of things, just like you guys are...and youre slamming me for it.
Perhaps we picked up this habit from HLA. You know attacking a person for not going along with our status qou? Or having a differing opinion, or God forbid complaining about anything ever, and stating how you feel.
9. I am not saying ALL of this on here is lies or anything, but since I KNOW some of it be, you guys dont have much credibility with ME either....alls fair in....etc etc...
I didnt hear anything through any grape vine, Im basing my opinion on my own experiences. So we both cant be right.
10. I never saw or heard about kids being abused, or malnourished, or neglected. Its like you cant imagine anything good about the school.
Theres nothing to imagien. Again though if you never saw or heard about kids being abused, I would say youre propogating your own self delusions to abate your own guilt.
11. I dont remember who or specifically when but I do remember SEVERAL circumstances where Students would accuse staff of doing this or that when it was later found out that the staff werent even on duty that particular time, etc. OMG teenagers lying! What a concept! LOL Remember I have one....he will be 16 in August, so I know all about teenagers and their behavior patterns...and most of it is to be expected of that age group really.No big shock there.
What is a shock is that you and many others there claimed to be there working towards the best interest of children when all you were actualy interested in was our parents money and keeping us there as long as possible. Now that is shocking, but hey, hell was made for somebody right?
11.I didnt see neglect or abuse or harassment, and I still dont feel that sandwiches, soup, fruit, juice and milk constitute neglect...they were fed and nobody starved to death or were malnourished. As far as why they changed it I dont know I wasnt privy to that information. But I do know they changed and the kids get the food off the foodline but I think they still go outside..but not sure about that.
Would sexual abuse. or physical abuse count in your book?
12.They were not allowed to restrain the kids it is a hands off facility...anybody restraining kids was reprimanded or fired....the ONLY time I ever heard about it being allowed...in the policy..was if a child was maybe trying to hurt themselves with a sharp object or getting ready to hit another child. It is a hands off facility and it is in their policy. Runaways could only be followed in a car and once they got off campus it was REQUIRED that they call the sheriffs office. They werent doing it to be mean to the kids..it was for their own safety. Any kook out there could pick up the kids on the main road and if they ran away at night there were bears and bobcats and coyotes that would make walking down a dark mountain road quite dangerous. I know all about the critters there was a bear that used to sit on my garbage can on my back deck and eat his midnight snack! But he eventually left for greener pastures.
Yet they force children to sleep in this wilderness you speak of? As to your claim that any employee who touched a child was fired. Given your time frame im sure you around when Jimsir attacked a student named Blake simply because he made a smart comment to him? Jim is still an employee there is he not? There are other examples if you need them.
13.No I dont know FIRST hand what is happening there...so yes its second hand...but so is what you are talking about...and the people that I talk to dont LIE. I am telling you what I know..and what I dont know....some things i know..and some I dont...I am not telling you anything that I dont know to be the truth.
Well we dont lie either? So how can both be telling the truth? Obviously us since its been shown already youve made several statements which are in fact lies.
14. Slander is when you post "heresay" and things you arent sure about and detrimentally hurt someones reputation..and yes...slander is what I have seen some of you post...so its not a harsh word..its what I am seeing.
Im sure about all my statements, what would you call it then? Oh yeah facts.
15.And by the way if I dont answer as FAST as you would like...its not because I am AFRAID to answer..it is because I take care of 2 children, a disabled husband, a disabled father, a 101 yr old grandfather, and I also work fulltime, and I dont have alot of FREE time.
Disabled husband? Didnt you just get divorced? My that was quick. Are you having a promiscuity issue? Perhaps we should talk about it further.
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I will answer most of your questions later..I have to go to work..however I will take issue with your last comment...I didnt JUST get divorced....I got divorced in February 2001. I was separated in January 2001. I got remarried in Late September 2002. Almost 2 years later. I am almost 40 years old. My ex is also remarried. I have 1 child and 3 stepchildren. My ex has 3 children and 1 stepchild. We are HARDLY promiscuous. The rest I will answer later when I have more time. I havent attacked you personally, I said some statements on here werent true..so keep your attacks to my statements and leave me personally out of it. Maturity will show you that Robert.
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Maturity tells me that RBs post had less to do with you personally and more to do with the double standard modeled for the teens. Serial monogamy is very frequently a cover for ?promiscuity?.
No, his comment had much more to do with normal teen behaviors being labeled ?promiscuous?. Just as teens who admit to having smoke pot are labeled ?addict? and sentenced to AA for the duration of their stay.
Are you 'promiscuous'? Probably no more than the teens who were 'treated' for it. When one puts themselves in the position of ?judging? others, they will be scrutinized. Your defense of HLA makes you open game. One size does not fit all.
What was HLAs technical, working definition of
'promiscuous'?
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Thanks for your lengthy response SHH. To the educated reader, it spoke volumes. You strike me as a generally nice person, just seriously naïve and defensive about things you know little to nothing about.
I feel absolutely certain that the ?excuse? for those infamous sandwiches was not because they were ?easier to transport to other areas of the campus?. The restriction kids ate outside the cafeteria on the curb. If they are eating what others eat now, it apparently wasn?t a problem with transporting a plate of food outside to the curb, and most definitely part of the abusive punishment regime. Just as eating separately, which IS stated in the parent manual.
Another point that hasn?t been made is that you claim that they ?were fed? and weren?t malnourished. You would not think that had you seen my son at the end of his first four months. FYI, a child can loose their ?privilege? to eat on any given day if their counselor decides they are ?out of agreement? while on restriction.
You must be confused, because I never ?claimed? that kids were taken to the hospital for being malnourished. I do believe they were fed just enough to keep them out of the hospital. And yes, had a doctor seen my son, he probably would have diagnosed him, malnourished. A gross oversight on my part- I should have taken him to the ER and had his condition documented and sent a copy to the judge.
Your mil made all those cheese sandwiches. She should have reported this to anyone who would listen, but then I can only imagine that she feels the same way you do, even though she?d never seen such a thing in the public school cafeteria. In fact, had she served public school kids the same ?restriction? diet for even a week, someone would?ve been coming down on her. Justify all you want, it?s not okay, under any circumstance. Prisoners are fed better.
I?m not going to argue that teens never lie. Everyone lies when they want to avoid consequences that don?t seem reasonable. I will tell you that lying is modeled for them on a daily basis. I was even asked to lie to my son. When I confronted the counselor, it was suggested that I not think of it as lying, but ?not telling the truth?. The difference, please? I am in contact with another parent who had the same experience and consequently ended up removing their child. I could recount numerous examples of double standards and lying on the program?s part. If you want a child to be honest, better be modeling honesty.
You apparently don?t understand the difference between ?licensed? and ?accredited?, and are grossly mistaken, and misleading the public, when you claim that they are licensed and monitored by the state.
The state licenses programs after an initial inspection. They issue a permit and the program is required to follow their regulations to ensure the bare minimum of safety and proper care. Violation of those regs can result in sanctions. At their discretion, the state can also shut a program down if they incur too many violations.
Rather than reiterate the insignificance of ?accreditation?, in terms of monitoring the ?therapeutic? methods, I?ll refer you to another thread. Briefly, an accreditation organization is only concerned with the academic aspect of the program. They do not monitor (nor does the 'Health Dept') how the kids are treated, the living conditions, do not have the authority to sanction mistreatment, etc. The worse that might happen- the program could loose their membership status. More on that issue: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=9&0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=8338&forum=9&0)
I can assure you that kids would not have been eating those infamous sandwiches had HLA been licensed and properly monitored by the state of Ga. Providing adequate nutrition to keep someone ?alive? is not acceptable, obviously, hence the change of policy. And, it was punishment. The other residents weren?t eating that diet.
Yes, a kid can frequently be on restriction for weeks at a time. My information is not second-hand, as yours is. I got a weekly call which included reports of when my son was or was not on restriction. Unfortunately, I had no idea what he endured while on restriction until I saw him for the fist time. That was not covered in the parent manual.
Directly from that manual:
Zaps- laps around the lake. Too many results in no weekend fun trips.
Other consequences- doing dishes, extra chores, calisthenics, or work assignments.
Bans- No contact with a particular person or thing (like basketball).
Restriction (Fall-In) - No free time, work assignments (on campus projects that involve physical labor) and writing assignments. Contact with other students severely curtailed, and they eat separately. Fall-In may last one or more weeks.
Table- generally slightly less severe and less lengthy than Fall-In. Work assignments, eat separately from other students. May last several days.
Focus- Writing assignments, eat last at meals, contact with peers not nearly limited.
Then you move to Clean Air and Wilderness- which has already been outlined here.
WHERE?S THE PART ABOUT LIMITED CALORIES AND VARIETY? Do you feel HLA was ?in agreement? when they outlined these restrictions, but failed to tell parents about the ?restriction diet?? Someone, at some time, knew the ?truth? wouldn?t fly with parents, so...perhaps they didn?t ?lie?, they just conveniently ?didn?t tell the truth?. The first time a parent heard about the diet was at their four month visit, when they were warned that they might hear about it and assured that, while ?sparse? it was ?approved by the Health Dept?.
While HLAs policy is ?no restraint?, it does occur. I am well aware of the dangers in that area- bears, bobcats, coyotes, and rattlesnakes. I didn?t sleep well when my son was at Ridge Creek sleeping on the ground on a black trash bag, no flashlight, no food or water, and a poncho to cover his head. He?d already had a close encounter with a rattlesnake. Did I mention it was extremely cold and he was vomiting all night? And, there was no one to hear his calls for help or respond. Call me ?reactive? but what if he?d had appendicitis? We?d be having a very different discussion.
No specifics on Rudy and Jill? You have determined that they were ?flakes?, but nothing to substantiate it? I am not defending them- I?ve heard some awful things myself. It would just be useful to hear someone elaborate on what ?flake? implies. Two years seems like a long time to tolerate a ?flake?.
So, you don?t ?know? any kids who went on to Ivy League colleges? Just heard of them. And you have no idea how their lives are today. I agree, it is sad when children prefer a residential facility to being home. I can?t speak to HLA buying Xmas presents, but I can tell you that some kids, whose parents did send gifts, did not receive them.
You are not telling me ?what you KNOW?. You are telling me, in most cases, what you?ve been told. Much of what both of us say comes from someone who actually experienced it- resident or staff. The difference is that you totally discount the kids and put complete faith in the staff. I don?t, and I think it is unwise to do so. I beg to differ, the staff at HLA do lie, and ask parents to lie.
You said, ?First of all..if a school decides that a practice isnt worked like they thought..or its not getting results...they change it..its called improvement...and thats what all schools do..DUH...the kids werent guinea pigs..they benefited from any changes made I am sure...but nobody intentionally opened that school to make kids guinea pigs...and secondly..nobody intentially avoided regulatioins..they were trying to get organizations to accredit them so how is that avoidance??? another DUH and it IS a therapeutic facility...they have counseling and NA meetings and AA meetings and therapeutic programs and rewards and they do community service and do things for the poor in the area and the elderly.?
No argument that HLA is a therapeutic facility. They told the Office of Regulatory Services that they ?began as a boarding school, then became a therapeutic facility?. Is that the truth SHH? Can you substantiate it?
Perhaps they had other reasons for ?avoiding regulations?, I don?t know, but my guess is that they knew they couldn?t implement their program if they were required to abide by state regs. HLA did not ?make improvements? until the state required them to do so. Yes, the kids who went through the program were guinea pigs for methods that have not been proven effective and certainly some methods that have been proven to be harmful.
To the issue of the teens not having access to phones. Your argument is well taken, in terms of the potential of planning a run away. That does not make it okay. Even psych hospitals and jails provide access to a public phone and the facility is required to post numbers to which inmates can report abuse. The teens at HLA and other BM facilities do not have that right, nor are they allowed to report abuse (real or perceived) to their parent without being punished.
OTHER QUOTES from Parent Manual:
Students on the Incomplete List (academically) lose their eligibility for off-campus trips and weekend movies; if they are on a restriction, their restriction does not end until they have made up all incomplete work.
Indefinitely?
Incomplete List student can also loose the seasonal breaks- visits home.
?Agreements? is another word for ?policies; or ?rules?. Upon enrollment, students and parents agree to accept and abide by our policies?.
How many teens genuinely agree? To suggest otherwise, feels a lot like manipulation to me. How many parents are well enough inform about the policies to genuinely make that 'agreement'?
?Any behavior that violates school policy is termed ?out of agreement?.
Student may be asked to write a ?fall-out list?- list of information they have about any ?out-of-agreement? incident, whether or not they were actively involved. Fall out lists offer students an opportunity to be honest; if they choose to become hones, their own consequences may be decreased.
My child was punished for fall-outs provided by other ?lying, manipulating? students. When it was confirmed that he was innocent, he remained on restriction. They must have had difficulty determining which 'liar' was being honest.
Once your child is enrolled at HLA, your visits to campus must occur only at scheduled parent workshop/visit times. First visit does not occur until the peer group is formed ? 4 to 6 months. Only certain events [sports, clubs, activities] will be selected as being open for parents? attendance. And only after completion of Water Element. Parents who are approved to attend events may not bring any special treats or any other kind of items to their child. Parents are not to transport their child to or from the event; student may not be in parents? vehicles at any time. Parents may be allowed five minutes to talk with their family members after the event, but parents must sit with other spectators rather than with their child or the team during the event.
Didn?t you claim that parents were allowed to drop in and that there were parents on campus all the time?
Requests for additional visits will be handled on an individual basis. Ex: parents or grandparents experience serious illness and/or surgery, parent?s remarriage.
Why did it take an act of congress to get more than a 24 hour visit when my father died?
Regarding the ?seasonal breaks?- Seasonal visits may be restricted for therapeutic reasons, which would, in our clinical judgment, put a student or family at risk.
And, Due to the eligibility requirements for seasonal breaks, we normally have a substantial percentage of our students remaining on campus during these breaks.
All mail to and from students will be routed through their counselors. At any point in the program, mail may be opened, read, and checked for contraband, inappropriate materials, or content that undermines students? work.
Student calls are scheduled during the evening hour Mon-Fri. A very limited number of calls can be placed Sunday evenings around 5pm. No call are made on Saturday.
Why did they require me to receive my calls during normal business hours? Could it be that they knew this created a significant hardship that could result in less contact with my child? I had to leave work and go home to receive my weekly call. That is ?when? I actually received it.
Please be aware that students will not receive a birthday call or extra time on their phone call if they are on restriction. Phone calls students miss because of an event related to their academic or therapeutic work or because of an athletic event in which they are participating can be rescheduled.
Why weren?t mine?
Students will not have their phone calls rescheduled if they are off campus for an optional activity that is not related to their academic or therapeutic work.
The child must choose between a rare off-campus event or talking to their parents?
At no time during the program are students to speak with friends (even ?positive? friends).
GCA 15-11-2 (2)(a) states that a ?child? is any individual who is under the age of 17 years. Any HLA student who is age 17 will not be apprehended by law enforcement officials should they choose to leave HLA of their own accord, unless they commit a crime. For this reason, we strongly recommend that parents of students who are (or soon will be) 17 years old seek extended guardianship or custody of their child. Under the circumstances of the child?s behaviors which led to enrollment at HLA, courts will often be open to this extension for the child?s own safety. HLA is willing to provide testimony as to the need for extended guardianship.
HLA offers a clinically based ?insightful thinking program? that incorporates the best of other types [of programs], omits some methods that others use, and adds a number of unique features. HLA does not use restraints or locked rooms, relying instead on verbal redirection and on students? ability to maintain appropriate self-control. The professional staff-to-student ratio at HLA is less than 2:1.
Where is it mentioned that restraint will occur when they deem it necessary? Other places it is mentioned they are a non-restraint facility. Period. No exceptions are spelled out.
It is extremely important that you commit to the entire program before enrolling your child. Your complete support is vital to your child?s success here. It is not possible for lasting change to be effected in a few short months. Parents who have bought into this and withdrawn their children early have later told us they regret having done so. In addition, an early withdrawal is often viewed as a ?drop-out? by colleges or other programs to which you may want to have your child accepted later.
Do I detect manipulation?
At HLA, we take the future placement of our students very seriously. Post HLA placement has a significant impact on students? ability to apply what they learned at HLA and to continue their success. Therefore, we recommend the use of educational consultant, particularly those who are members of the Independent Educational Consultants? Association (IECA), in this placement process.
Not in the manual, but in a form letter:
Because future planning is an essential part of your child?s program, HLA will reimburse you up to $250 for your consultant?s after-care fee, contingent upon your child?s graduation.
From a form letter 2001:
Over the past few months we have heard from many parents the inconvenience that has arose from the policy of HLA not taking students to the dentist for routine dental work including cleanings. Coupled with the increased difficulty of coordinating medical trips so that they do not negatively impact the program in any way has help HLA evaluate its position on this issue. After considering all the options, we are please to announce that HLA has entered into an agreement with XXXXX to provide services exclusively to HLA student on campus. Not having to leave the campus for service will afford every student the maximum amount of time possible to continue the hard work in the program and still receive the best care possible.
How many other inappropriate policies are/were there? I?m sure the state would have an opinion about that. This is not ?growing pains?. This is a blatant disregard for the needs of the children.
If a child voluntarily withdraws after thirty days from admission, all pre-paid tuition will be refunded except for the tuition for the month the student is withdrawn and the 20th, 21st, and final month?s tuition. Before thirty days, all tuition is refunded except the pro-rated tuition for the days in attendance plus a $1,500 admission charge.
Why did HLA tell the judge that my ex would loose all pre-paid tuition if my child came home for Christmas- just over thirty days after enrollment? Why have other parents had to hire attorneys to get their refunds? Why was one child classified as being withdrawn when HLA requested that the parent remove the child? Dismissal or Forced withdrawal?
FYI, tuition received after the 1st incurs a $100.00 late fee. After the 7th, $375.00.
Should the student?s parents not be able to agree on the rights of one or both parents with regards to communication from the school, access to academic and counseling reports, and communications with, access to, and visitation with the student, then the school shall retain attorneys to determine these relative rights, and all costs and attorney fees incurred by the school will be billed to the parent responsible for the tuition and fees under the terms of this agreement and paid immediately upon receipt.
Interesting, I never received my child?s records after repeated requests. They certainly didn?t take this action to determine my rights.
And this one takes the cake: ?Receiving mixed messages from the authority figures in their lives is very confusing to teenagers and often allows them to justify their own negative behaviors.?
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I can tell you who the liars are and it is not those incarcerated in these extortion rackets posing as "teen help". Rudy and Jill if you are so fucking honest and not in it to hold kids against their will then post a message under your user name. The kids are brainwashed to think that doing whatever the cult leader says is good for them. the cult leader usually tries to find out what he can use the kids for and that extends to demanding that the kid pay another kid money . the truth is that this is how they cover up exortion. they con the kid into thinking that they need money. we all know that it is against state law to attempt to extort money from a minor but these "child molestors" do not follow state law. they are narcisstic and only care about robbing kids they hate to steer it towards those they like. The truth is that if the kid were allowed unlimited funds and to use phones in town unsupervised 50% of the kids would leave and the "families" of the cult leaders would have to suffer because they would not be able to "maintain" their six figure lifestyle. they are greedy and selfish and they have legalized to being their right because their belief is that "we have to use you for something" and they are filled with jealousy and resentment over the suburban home owners who fund their abuse and have convinced themselves that you "have it easy" so it is their right to turn others against you , molest you and make it "as hard as they can for you" because once you get away from them your life will be easier and they will still be extorting and molesting boys to get what they want. they are sociopaths who only care about themselves and not about how they make others feel after they are abused only about how they feel. it is a scam and a racket and those who defend it are so self absorbed and blinded by "loyalty" to the fraud they call a "school" that they blame the victims of these scams. these places are only good for violent teens as an alternative to prison.
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Just as a addition to a comment made by Lynn in which she claimed that restriction students were never hide away during visits or tours.
Shes lying. During my time there the school invited a group of Education Consultants to visit the school. I was not on restriction at the time however because I was exstremly vocal about my dissatisfaction with HLA I was taken away with the ones who were on restriction. As I recall leading up to the event work assingnments were given to all the students (punishment or not) to clean up the place, and the cafeteria suddenly served much better food for the one day that the Ed. Cons were present, after that it was back to the normal crap.
Just wanted to clear up one of Lynns lies.
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Robert educational consultants tour the school about once every 3 months or so....are you saying there was only one time you were sent to do something away from main campus while a tour was going on, the whole time you were there? Did you ever consider that maybe there was another reason for sending some students to another part? maybe to make some room for visitors to eat in the cafeteria? Oh thats right...youre right and everyone else is wrong. Never mind.
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Get real Shh. You really are optimistic to a fault.
If restrictions normally sit on the curb outside the cafeteria to eat, why move them to another area, on the day of the Ed Con visit? Might that look bad?
I seem to remember someone defending that there was PLENTY of room in the cafeteria for kids and staff. Given that, and with all those restriction kids displaced from the cafeteria, seems there would have been ample space for a few visitors. Afterall, how many Ed Cons visited? The one my ex used never visited, not once.
What is obvious, is that they wanted the Ed Cons to see and interact with those who appeared happy and compliant. For some odd reason, they may not have wanted them to see the kids eating outside on the curb, or risk the chance of them seeing someone being PT'd for not tossing their plate when trash came by.
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Shhh your manipulations dont work here remember? No I was not sent away with the others due to a space issue, I was sent away for the reasons I already posted, I know this because I was told in no uncertian terms as much by my counsolers. As far as me always being right and everyone else always being wrong, I wouldnt agree. Its just Im telling the truth and youre always full of it.
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Oh when can we expect you to respod to those earlier comments I made?
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I dont have time to respond to the lengthy ones right now..I am staying home to be with my son who was diagnosed with Pneumonia yesterday. The ones I responded to last night was at 1:45 in the morning when I couldnt sleep because I was up taking care of him. You know..that child you say I abuse??? that one...LOL
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why isnt he in a hospital if he has pnemonia? If it were my child, I would insist that he stay in the hospital because pnemonia is nothing to play around with.
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He isnt in the hospital because the doctor told me he didnt need to go...DUH...of course he would be there if necessary..the child isnt running a fever and is watching animal planet right now, and wants lunch...hardly a need for a hospital. Gotta run....time to make lunch.
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First, how can anyone take you seriously if you back "ed cons". They're PAID to send kids to these places. Another job industry created by this whole fucking teen help movement. Just like the goddamn kidnapper "escorts" that are paid to take kids there.
On 2005-02-22 22:43:00, SHH wrote:
Did you ever consider that maybe there was another reason for sending some students to another part? maybe to make some room for visitors to eat in the cafeteria?
Second, the above statement??? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
--James Burgh 1774
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Shhh do you make your son try and feel guilty for all the time youre having to take away from your attempted propoganda campaign in order to take care of him?
I mean that would be the normal reaction of any staff member former or otherwise of HLA.
Try not to, that might constitute as emotional abuse.
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Still others choose to leave the B.S.(i.E.: qUIT THEIR JOBS, EVEN IF WE DID HAVE TO PAY $3000. FOR BREAKING OUR CONTRACTS") BECAUSE THEY COULDN'T FIX the problems AND DIDN'T WANT TO BE PART OF IT.
We discover in the gospels a groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstition, fanaticism and fabrication.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
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Contract? Talk about that. It's not often that I hear of employers requiring employees to sign a contract. I assume this must have something to do with keeping counselors/staff there for the duration of a peer group or for the school year?
What a day it is when an employee has to PAY the employer in order to leave. Only in the industry.
But, it does seem that if they broke any agreements with you or misrepresented the situation or job in any way, then you shouldn't be obligated to uphold your contract.
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The restrictions kids DO NOT sit outside on the wall and eat their "bread and water", they eat inside the lodge just like everyone else except earlier so as not to continue to disrupt the advancement of the students who are trying to better themselves if not only for their parents but to have a better experience in school.
And yes, RobertBruce, when there are large planned visits, consultants, grandparents day, etc the campus is cleaned up moreso and some of the students who would like to cause as much trouble as possible are sent to do other things, you wouldn't leave your dirty laundry out when you had visitors. As for the "lie" what i said is listed in the quotes below, and you have jarbeled it up into one big generalization.
anonymous - "OH and as for "if, as a parent you visited the school and everything seemed decent, it's because you're there. The school is very different whenever parents are there. They usually take all of the kids who are on restrictions and send them off into the woods with one water bottle each and a little bagged lunch. The rest of the students are assigned to partake in designated activities all over campus for the day."
me - TOTALLY UNTRUE! there are parents and other visitors that come to the school at all different days and times of day. they look at the school, the grounds, the cafeteria, the infirmary, the gym and even experience the cafeteria during meal times...unannounced!! the staff and students do no know when they are having tours. the only time the school does the special visit days where activities are planned are days like grandparents day so that other family members can see that the school is not a lock down or basement facility! the thought that everyone's days could be disrupted to "put on some kind of act" is again a silly statement"
If calling me a liar makes you feel justified then so be it, but if you read the above statement from anon. and then me you will see it explained both ways.
so sorry to prove you wrong, i have read your comments and have come to the conclusion that you truly dislike that.
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when you sign up to take a group there has to be some security that you will stay for the entire length of the program. it is not healthy for these kids, some of who have a lot of attachement issues, to have someone that they come to trust just up and leave. They make it harder for that to happen by requiring contracts and implementing penelties. There are portions in the contract that make it so that you can get out of it without penelty. There are of course reasons that employees are let go and that is taken seriously, too.
Oh, and there are always ways to get out of the contract and not have to pay the $3000, isn't there, hattie?
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Lynn ill tell you the same thing I told Shh, your lies and manipulations hold no sway here. You claimed that the statement made about students being carted away during visits and inspections was untrue. This was a lie, I proved as much, you need to accept that. Now as a staff member of HLA Im sure your accustumed to anytime a student proves you wrong or catches you in a lie being able to simply slap on a work assingnment or place the child on restriction, however you need to accept that on here and everywhere outside of HLA you have no power and you can do nothing about me and others speaking the truth. Im sure thats upsetting to you, but you should get used to it. As far as proving me wrong...well you havent been able to do that as of yet, and I doubt you will ever be able to since all that you spout of is the nonsense propoganda youve been told to say, whereas I speak the truth. Let me ask you. did you come to this site of your own accord or did a staff member of the school discover it and ask you to be the point man on dispelling the truth thats told here and hopefully disuadding potential customers? If so why were you chosen?
As far as your other comment goes, could you discuss why there is in fact so much turnover at HLA?
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'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe.
All mimsey were the borogroves
And the mome raths outgrabe.
"Beware the Jabberwock, my son!
The jaws that bite, the claws that snatch!
Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun
The frumious Bandersnatch!"
He took his vorpal sword in hand:
Long time the manxome foe he sought -
He rested 'neath the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.
And while in uffish thought he stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes aflame
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back.
"And hast thou slain the Jabberwock ?
Come to my arms, my beamish boy!
O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!"
He chortled in his joy.
'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe.
All mimsey were the borogroves
And the mome raths outgrabe.
Our Constitution is in actual operation; everything appears to promise that it will last; but in this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.
Ben Franklin Letter to M. Leroy, 1789.
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no, i was not "assigned" to this board, it is called free will, and no, i do not believe that you have proven me a liar or wrong, trust me, i admit when i am wrong and as far as holding not salt, robertbruce, sir, you have been so bitter for so long that you can not see past your hatred. it is really alright with me if we agree to disagree, but as for my statements being lies or me trying to manipulate, that is just you trying to justify your malice towards anyone who is at all for the program which has seemed to have brought you so much misery. my advise for you, and take this as whatever you want, open you mind to other points of view as i am open to yours. i understand that your stay there many years ago was less than helpful for you and that may really be, and if this is a cathardic means for you to cleanse yourself i am very happy that you have this opportunity. we all need a little cleansing but again, just because someone's opinion is not the same as your does not automatically make it wrong.
as for the turnover, same reason any other company, school, industry has turnover. i really do not have anything to do with that. (this way you cannot say i am avoiding). i truly am not trying to be manipulative, just giving my point of view as are you. if it is not what your reality is, then that is really alright with me...oh, and when i am wrong, to the kids there or my own, i am the first to admit it. sorry if that bursts the bubble that you have created about me.
again, you are using 4 year old information, things change when they are found not to work or that they are not productive. i know when something doens't work with my family i change it, same goes for any business, school, industry, you are constantly evolving as i know i have in my many years and would hope that this would pertain to all. i wish you could see that when mistakes are made or when something doess't work people are willing to change it to make it better. but again i don't think you can see that through the veil of hatred and bitterness you hold on to. and the reason i can make that last statement (even though "i don't know you") is because of what you have allowed me to see in your statements.
take care, i have to go to work now...and am grateful for that opportunity!
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Lynn- You speak of free will yet Im surprised youre even aware of the concept, as all your job really entails is to make sure no student has it correct?
>>>>>i do not believe that you have proven me a liar or wrong,
You may not want to believe it but I did, on both counts. You claimed the statement about students being carted away during visits and inspections was a lie. I proved you wrong, accept that rehashing it only makes you look worse in the eyes of your bosses who Im sure are already displeased with your preformance on here.
>>>>>i admit when i am wrong and as far as holding not salt, robertbruce, sir, you have been so bitter for so long that you can not see past your hatred
Hatred? Bitter? Again you make assumptions about me without basis, you seem to be unable to seperate yourself from your work where you can perscribe an emotion, thought, or attribute to a child and force the child to agree with your assesement whether it is based in reality or not. I keep telling you though, you have no power here, you cant punish me for anything and cant stop me from telling the truth. That truth being your scared, you and all the staff memebers of HLA, lawsuits and threats of lawsuits are becoming more and more of a reality, the walls are closing in and youre afraid youre all going to get caught. Well your fear is well placed, the time to pay the piper is fast approaching, you and your superiors need to accept the consequences of your actions and stop trying to manipulate your way out of the situation.
Let me also give you a better perspective from which you can see where Im coming from. Lets say you were raped by a man who was a serial rapist and had raped several women before you and after you. Several years had passed since your attack and in that time you had forgiven the man (as I have forgiven HLA for the crimes they committed against me) and had long since gotten your life back on track and were now happy. But the oppurtunity presented itself to not only catch this man in the act but have him put away for life so he could never harm another woman again. Even though youd forgiven him, wouldnt you still seek to see that he was punished for his crimes? To make sure he never harmed anyone again and that justice was served? Even if he claimed to be reformed he would still need to be held accountable for his previous actions wouldnt he? I think if youre honest youll admit that you would in fact seek that justice. Dont assume Im after you all because Im angry or bitter, Im after you to ensure you dont harm anyone else and that you are held accountable for your actions, and Im not alone as you already know. Youve burned to many people and now theyve come to collect. The school is going to soon face several law suits and perhaps a class action suit, we will bring everything to the light and you will be exposed for what you are, and if we have our way you will be closed down.
>>>>>>but as for my statements being lies or me trying to manipulate, that is just you trying to justify your malice towards anyone who is at all for the program which has seemed to have brought you so much misery. my advise for you, and take this as whatever you want, open you mind to other points of view as i am open to yours.
This part is going to be hysterical
but as far as my statements stemming from my anger or bitterness, that is just you trying to justify your fear and narcisism towards anyone who is at all against the program which has fed your ego and powertrips. My advice for you, and take this as whatever you want, open your mind to other points of view as I am open to yours.
>>>>>just because someone's opinion is not the same as your does not automatically make it wrong.
You know whats funny I used to say this to the counsolers all the time during my stay at HLA, they never agreed. Its interesting how the requirement to be an absolute hypocrit is a neccsitiy to be an employee there.
As far as the turnover, you dont know why so many of your coworkers disappeared? Thats strange I would have thought you were a little closer then that.
>>>>>oh, and when i am wrong, to the kids there or my own, i am the first to admit it. sorry if that bursts the bubble that you have created about me.
Oh it doenst, afterall youre only repeating what was said to me several years ago, nothings changed.
>>>>again, you are using 4 year old information, things change when they are found not to work or that they are not productive. i know when something doens't work with my family i change it, same goes for any business, school, industry
4 year old information? I see, have your bosses instructed you to try and guess my identity? Again your manipulations dont work on here remember?
>>>>but again i don't think you can see that through the veil of hatred and bitterness you hold on to. and the reason i can make that last statement (even though "i don't know you") is because of what you have allowed me to see in your statements.
take care, i have to go to work now...and am grateful for that opportunity!
Again silly assumptions made by you as a result of your fear, coupled with your inability to admitt being wrong due to your narcissim, raging ego, and your bosses greed.
See you in court soon. :wave:
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Lynn,
You are one of the most reasonable people I have encountered at HLA. Unfortunately, that is not much of a compliment.
Twice now you have suggested to RB, on the Amazing Forums board, that he should seek therapy and ?put all of this energy into some other venue?. And then elaborated, ?maybe you should try to educatate parents to do a better job, then perhaps their children would not need to come to schools like HLA or even much more restrictive environments.?
http://amazingforums.com/forum/BS4/252.html (http://amazingforums.com/forum/BS4/252.html)
Have you ever considered taking your own advice, and I don't mean that sarcastically, but genuinely.
If you really want to 'help'- educate parents and children- why not cut out the middle man (program) and go directly into people?s homes with your skills? By cutting out the middle man, you could charge half to two-thirds what the program charges, make a very decent living; and have a much better chance of realistically ?helping?. Like a Nanny 911 or Super Nanny for parents of teens.
RB is not ?spouting 4 year old rederick?, in my opinion. He is sharing his experience which demonstrates what this program was/is like in reality. Whether changes have been made since RB attended, as you claim, doesn?t matter in the sense that HLA?s past ?mistakes? demonstrate a particular set of values (or lack of, in some?s opinion) and MO. Unfortuantely, values don't change overnight, so all the programs claim. One small example: To avoid state regulations for a residential therapeutic program, by claiming to be a traditional boarding school or ?special purpose? school, is ?out of agreement? with society?s rules. As a self-appointed spokesperson for the program, can you provide insight into why any program would avoid regulations and oversight by the government? What crucial aspect or method of the program might be hindered by minimally protective regulations?
You claim that ?most of the kids there have earned their place?. I?m curious how you have come to this mindset. No kid ?earns their place? in a remote program isolated from the world and subjected to austere and experimental ?therapy? or abuse. No kid has earned the punishment of having contact with parents, siblings, and other family severed. No child has earned the punishment of having proper shelter denied.
It is my belief that when a child (or adult) is ?angry, hurt, mad, bitter?- as you diagnose RB to be- they are 100% of the time having a reaction to something in their life. It may be a perfectly reasonable reaction, given the conditions in their home and how they?ve been raised, and other environmental problems. Did they ?earn? their reaction? No, not any more than the rape victim ?earns? their fear to be alone at night or their uncontrollable crying jags.
I find RB and others anger, hurt, bitterness to be justified. You have no right to place any evaluation on that. You, in fact, are having your own ?reaction? to people for saying things that you don?t like. It?s just a fact of life, unless one is a saint, to have a reaction when one feels slighted or disrespected. It?s a survival mechanism, which HLA works diligently to squash, denying all the while, that an outward appearance of being okay and happy does not guarantee that it has been internalized.
I?m very serious about my suggestion earlier. I see a real need for ?helpers? to go into people?s homes and ?help? parents learn how to treat their children in order to get the ?results? they are desiring. It?s so much more ethical than what?s happening across this nation in private teen prisons.
I would be singing HLAs praises if someone from there had gone into my ex?s home and pointed out that he was deferring to a narcissistic, psychotic woman who couldn?t stand for him to give his children time and attention that she wanted. No, my kid?s did not ?earn? their place in any of the institutions she insisted on. HLA did nothing to ?heal? that situation. They did achieve ?results?. Neither of my son?s now complain, or bother to attempt to communicate regarding anything of significance with their father. The one thing their experience taught them was that their father will take drastic measures, to their detriment if need be, to avoid challenging and difficult situations. They also learned that their step-mother is not the only narcissistic and psychotic person in the world. Some life lessons, huh?
Further, I?d be signing their praises if they had stayed out of our personal family business and dismissed my son due to conflict between the parents over the placement. Instead, they took $5,000 per month from my ex, did not seek a ?family history? from me (the parent who had spent the most time with him), perjured themselves during our court hearing, and stole two years from me and my son. Talk about reaction, I still have mine. And they swing from an ache that physically seizes my chest to an internal volcano that would like to erupt all over the facility. Don?t pretend for a minute that you are qualified or justified in evaluating my reaction to this injustice. And don?t ever, ever tell me I have lied or exaggerated. To do so would constitute the ultimate disrespect and/or ignorance on your part.
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i'd be very concerned about a so-called "professional" who can't even spell "rhetoric." what kind of education does this person have? not much, it's safe to say. this would make her a perfect fit at hla...
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Also from Lynn's post... vica versa :lol:
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On 2005-02-24 11:17:00, RobertBruce wrote:
Lynn: >>>>i do not believe that you have proven me a liar or wrong,
You may not want to believe it but I did, on both counts. You claimed the statement about students being carted away during visits and inspections was a lie. I proved you wrong, accept that rehashing it only makes you look worse in the eyes of your bosses who Im sure are already displeased with your preformance on here.
I'd like to comment on this, if I may. I agree w/ Deborah's assessment that Lynn is fairly reasonable and open minded, as Program devotees go. I also believe that she sincerely believes what she said to justify taking the more abused kids out of frame whenever guests visit. When I was in my program, I accepted a whole lot of this kind of distortion, even to the point of blaming myself when I got my ass kicked around for a few days for refusing to make an insincere apology to Group for trying to get away.
I'm not kidding at all, I believed it. I understood on some level that the whole thing was really messed up, or I wouldn't have resisted at all, even that one time. But even after I was out, when the state child welfare people asked me if I had seen or experienced abuse there, I said no. I thought it wouldn't be fair or honest to frame what happened to me as abuse because I could have prevented it by just saying what they wanted me to say, even though it wouldn't have been true.
I was confused, to say the least. I think that simple fact was just about the only thing I was sure of at the time. And I had only been a client w/ some little pretense of authority given to upper phase clients. I don't think that's half the mindfuck that staff get, I honestly don't.
Lynn, if you dare, please read over a couple of things. I don't care if you respond or comment or not, but please just read this stuff and think about it.
This is what I think may be happening to you:
Stanford Prison Experiment
http://www.prisonexp.org/ (http://www.prisonexp.org/)
And this is what I think you're doing to these kids:
DR. ROBERT J. LIFTON'S CRITERIA FOR THOUGHT REFORM
http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/lifton-criteria.txt (http://fornits.com/anonanon/docs/lifton-criteria.txt)
I do not believe in the divinity of Christ, and there are many other of the postulates of the orthodox creed to which I cannot subscribe.
--William Howard Taft, U.S. President
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[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2005-03-04 05:50 ]
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There is a difference between brainwashing and trying to teach kids some respect and responsibility and a different way of behaving. My husband was a participant of the SEED in Florida in the early 70s..and their techniques were NOTHING like what HLA does. It was abusive. VERY different. Make no mistake, I do believe some programs are very damaging. HLA is not one of them. Its a very different environment than what my husband went through at the SEED.
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But again Mrs. Grey how can you know, since you did not really know what was going on in the students day to day life? Espically in the therapy aspects of which you yourself admitted you were never a part of?
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On 2005-03-03 19:44:00, SHH wrote:
"There is a difference between brainwashing and trying to teach kids some respect and responsibility and a different way of behaving. My husband was a participant of the SEED in Florida in the early 70s..and their techniques were NOTHING like what HLA does. It was abusive. VERY different. Make no mistake, I do believe some programs are very damaging. HLA is not one of them. Its a very different environment than what my husband went through at the SEED. "
Oh, that's interesting as hell! Any idea how your husband became involved w/ HLA. And what about The Seed do you think was more abusive than HLA? Btw, he might find some of his old friends posting over on the Seed forum. Some of those folks stayed involved for decades!
Every sensible man, every honorable man, must hold the Christian sect in horror.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright
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The husband I am referring to that had to attend SEED in the 70s is not the same husband working at HLA. That is my EX husband who works at HLA. My new husband was a SEED survivor from Florida, and he already posts at the fornits survivors board.
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The anon 04 graduate alleged:
?Most meals contain at least one or more deep fried dishes and a miniscule selection of food not containing meat.?
Lynn refuted:
?while a lot of the meals contain a fried selection, it is not the only choice, ever and there is always a vegetarian selection along with a nicely stocked salad bar... noted, there are usually a few more carbs then those who do the atkins thing would like.?
Let?s analyze. Keeping in mind, ?was the grad lying??:
Given that this week of sample menus is still representative of what is served:
L- Turkey soup, Spinach & Pasta Salad, Grilled Cheese, Chop Suey, Rice, Carrots
D- Pork Loin, Dressing & Gravy, Roasted potatoes, Green Beans, PB&J
L- Chicken soup, Caesar salad, Chicken salad, Hot dog, Chili, Nachos, Vegetable blend
D- Fried drumsticks, Gravy, Mashed Potatoes, Fried fish, Corn
L- Minestrone, Waldorf & Potato salad, Pizza, Riblet sandwich, Potato chips, Green beans
D-Hamburger, Veggie burger, Chicken nuggets, French fries
L-Tomato soup, Tuna salad, Egg salad, BBQ pork sandwich, Manicotti, Tater tots, Peas
D- Turkey, Dressing, Baked fish, Mashed potatoes, Sauteed Veggies
L- Onion soup, Greek Salad, Pastrami, Tacos, Bean burritos, Rice, Corn
D- Italian subs, Stromboli, Beans, French fries, French bread
L- Chicken and Dumplings, Chicken Casear, Ham salad, Chicken breast, Mac and cheese, Peas
D- Seafood, Poorboy sandwich, Roasted potatoes, Peas
L-Mushroom soup, Tossed salad, Salami, Turkey wrap, Shepherds pie, Potato chips, Squash
D- Grilled Ham, Rice, Peas & carrots, Dinner roll
PB&J always available at lunch and dinner.
Now, for the vegetarian who eats eggs and dairy:
On Monday-lunch options are: Spinach and/or Pasta (bread) salad, The infamous Cheese sandwich (cheese and bread), Rice and Carrots.
For dinner: PB&J, Roasted potatoes, and Green beans.
On Tuesday-lunch options are: Caesar salad, Nachos (cheese and bread), and Vegetable blend
For dinner: PB&J, Mashed potatoes, and Corn
On Wednesday-lunch options are: Minestrone (if no meat stock), Waldorf and/or Potato salads, Pizza (cheese and bread), Potato chips (fried), and Green beans
For dinner: Veggie burger, French fries (fried), or PB&J
On Thurday-lunch options are: Tomato soup, Egg salad, Manicotti (cheese and bread), Tater tots (fried), and Peas.
For dinner: PB&J, Mashed potatoes, Sauteed Veggies
On Friday-lunch options are: Onion soup (if no meat stock), Greek salad, Bean burrito, Rice, Corn
The most balance vegetarian meal offer so far.
For dinner: Stromboli-if it is vegetarian (cheese and bread), Beans, French fries (fried) or PB&J
On Saturday-lunch options are: Mac and Cheese (cheese and bread), Peas, and/or PB&J
For dinner: PB&J, Roasted potatoes, Peas
On Sunday-lunch options are: Mushroom soup, Tossed salad, Potato chips (fried), Squash
For dinner: PB&J, Rice, Peas and carrots
I was a vegetarian for a number of years and consulted with a dietician. I can tell you that this is not adequate to maintain health. Being a vegetarian entails much more than just avoiding meat. It is crucial to consume adequate amino acids (building blocks of protein) and B12, which would consist of whole grains and beans/legumes, supplemented by nuts/seeds and OCCASIONALLY cheese (preferably as a condiment, not the entree), as well as a wide variety of vegetable proteins. This sample does not provide the necessary components of a healthy vegetarian diet. While any one of them might be okay if one was stuck away from home and unable to get anything else, it would not be considered ?healthy? by an educated vegetarian or a dietician, for any extended period. It?s way too heavy on cheese, bread/white rice/potatoes (refined carbs), and pb&j.
In 5 of 7 dinners the only veg entrée option was pb&j. Served with potatoes/green beans, potatoes/corn, potatoes/veggies, potatoes/peas, or rice/peas&carrots. Yulk!!! I?d be complaining too. Might even decide to give up being a vegetarian.
6 of the 14 meals, the main entrée was bread and cheese.
A ?FEW? more carbs?
12 of the 14 meals were hi carb, in my opinion.
All 14 contained potatoes, bread, and/or rice.
In 5 of the 14 meals one, of the few veg options, was fried.
And to touch on breakfast- The most vegetarian options were available at breakfast, provided that eggs were acceptable. Potatoes served every breakfast- all fried by the way.
Based on this survey, I?d say the grad?s complaints are valid. She didn't lie, or exaggerate for that matter. You?d be wise to consult with a dietician and/or warn parents that you are not capable of providing a healthy, balanced vegetarian fare to their child.
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On 2005-03-04 09:52:00, SHH wrote:
"The husband I am referring to that had to attend SEED in the 70s is not the same husband working at HLA. That is my EX husband who works at HLA. My new husband was a SEED survivor from Florida, and he already posts at the fornits survivors board. "
Thanks for clearing that up. So what's the difference between HLA and The Seed? Why do you think The Seed was so abusive as compared to HLA? Cause a lot of people would tell you the opposite.Neither in my private life nor in my writings, have I ever made a secret of being an out-and-out unbeliever.
--Sigmund Freud, Austrian-born psychologist
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DR. ROBERT J. LIFTON'S CRITERIA FOR THOUGHT REFORM
THOUGHT REFORM: THE PSYCHOLOGY OF TOTALISM
CHAPTER 22
(Chapel Hill, 1989)
THE FUTURE OF IMMORTALITY
CHAPTER 15 (New York 1987)
Any ideology -- that is, any set of emotionally-charged convictions
about men and his relationship to the natural or supernatural world
-- may be carried by its adherents in a totalistic direction. But
this is most likely to occur with those ideologies which are most
sweeping in their content and most ambitious or messianic in
their claim, whether a religious or political organization. And
where totalism exists, a religion, or a political movement becomes
little more than an exclusive cult.
Here you will find a set of criteria, eight psychological themes against
which any environment may be judged. In combination, they create an
atmosphere which may temporarily energize or exhilarate, but which at the
same time pose the gravest of human threats.
(BRIEF OUTLINE)
1. MILIEU CONTROL
the most basic feature is the control of human communication within
and environment if the control is extremely intense, it becomes
internalized control -- an attempt to manage an individual's inner
communication control over all a person sees, hears, reads, writes
(information control)
creates conflicts in respect to individual autonomy
groups express this in several ways: Group process, isolation from
other people, psychological pressure, geographical distance or
unavailable transportation, sometimes physical pressure
often a sequence of events, such as seminars, lectures, group
encounters, which become increasingly intense and increasingly
isolated, making it extremely difficult-- both physically and
psychologically--for one to leave.
sets up a sense of antagonism with the outside world; it's us
against them
closely connected to the process of individual change (of personality)
2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION (Planned spontaneity)
extensive personal manipulation
seeks to promote specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such
a way that it appears to have arisen spontaneously from within the
environment, while it actually has been orchestrated
totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or
some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative
the "principles" (God-centered or otherwise) can be put forcibly and
claimed exclusively, so that the cult and its beliefs become the only
true path to salvation (or enlightenment)
the individual then develops the psychology of the pawn, and
participates actively in the manipulation of others
the leader who becomes the center of the mystical manipulation (or
the person in whose name it is done) can be sometimes more real than
an abstract god and therefore attractive to cult members
legitimizes the deception used to recruit new members and/or raise
funds, and the deception used on the "outside world"
3. THE DEMAND FOR PURITY
the world becomes sharply divided into the pure and the impure, the
absolutely good (the group/ideology) and the absolutely evil
(everything outside the group)
one must continually change or conform to the group "norm"
tendencies towards guilt and shame are used as emotional levers for
the group's controlling and manipulative influences
once a person has experienced the totalist polarization of good/evil
(black/white thinking), he has great difficulty in regaining a more
balanced inner sensitivity to the complexities of human morality
the radical separation of pure/impure is both within the environment
(the group) and the individual
ties in with the process of confession -- one must confess when one
is not conforming
4. CONFESSION
cultic confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal
and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself
sessions in which one confesses to one's sin are accompanied by
patterns of criticism and self-criticism, generally transpiring within
small groups with an active and dynamic thrust toward personal change
is an act of symbolic self-surrender
makes it virtually impossible to attain a reasonable balance between
worth and humility
a young person confessing to various sins of pre-cultic existence can
both believe in those sins and be covering over other ideas and
feelings that s/he is either unaware of or reluctant to discuss
often a person will confess to lesser sins while holding on to other
secrets (often criticisms/questions/doubts about the group/leaders
that may cause them not to advance to a leadership position)
"the more I accuse myself, the more I have a right to judge you"
5. SACRED SCIENCE
the totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic
doctrine or ideology, holding it as an ultimate moral vision for the
ordering of human existence
questioning or criticizing those basic assumptions is prohibited
a reverence is demanded for the ideology/doctrine, the originators of
the ideology/doctrine, the present bearers of the ideology/doctrine
offers considerable security to young people because it greatly
simplifies the world and answers a contemporary need to combine a
sacred set of dogmatic principles with a claim to a science embodying
the truth about human behavior and human psychology
6. LOADING THE LANGUAGE
the language of the totalist environment is characterized by the
thought-terminating cliche (thought-stoppers)
repetitiously centered on all-encompassing jargon
"the language of non-thought"
words are given new meanings -- the outside world does not use the
words or phrases in the same way -- it becomes a "group" word or
phrase
7. DOCTRINE OVER PERSON
every issue in one's life can be reduced to a single set of principles
that have an inner coherence to the point that one can claim the
experience of truth and feel it
the pattern of doctrine over person occurs when there is a conflict
between what one feels oneself experiencing and what the doctrine or
ideology says one should experience
if one questions the beliefs of the group or the leaders of the group,
one is made to feel that there is something inherently wrong with them
to even question -- it is always "turned around" on them and the
questioner/criticizer is questioned rather than the questions answered
directly
the underlying assumption is that doctrine/ideology is ultimately more
valid, true and real than any aspect of actual human character or
human experience and one must subject one's experience to that "truth"
the experience of contradiction can be immediately associated with guilt
one is made to feel that doubts are reflections of one's own evil
when doubt arises, conflicts become intense
8. DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE
since the group has an absolute or totalist vision of truth, those who
are not in the group are bound up in evil, are not enlightened, are not
saved, and do not have the right to exist
"being verses nothingness"
impediments to legitimate being must be pushed away or destroyed
one outside the group may always receive their right of existence by
joining the group
fear manipulation -- if one leaves this group, one leaves God or loses
their transformation, for something bad will happen to them
the group is the "elite", outsiders are "of the world", "evil",
"unenlightened", etc.
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Spelled Dahlongea wrong, but still so many interesting verifable facts.
http://www.heal-online.org/hiddenlake.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/hiddenlake.htm)
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On 2005-03-04 09:52:00, SHH wrote:
"The husband I am referring to that had to attend SEED in the 70s is not the same husband working at HLA. That is my EX husband who works at HLA. My new husband was a SEED survivor from Florida, and he already posts at the fornits survivors board. "
ahhhh...yes. NOW i do remember you from hla. fat bill was your husband. as i recall, you're no beauty either (of course that makes no difference, but i thought i'd give robertbruce the heads up on it for his own personal edification).
that being said, i was there and worked with bill gray. he had much more access than you did, as his office was in the admin bldg and with the door open, i'm sure he heard lots of things.
i'm still not sure why you claim to have intimate knowledge of how the program worked, because i know for a fact that you do not.
i was there before the very first kid from pg1 ("rising") arrived and personally did the intake for every kid that came through those doors for the first two years.
I know what happened there. you do not.
my suggestion is that you stop pontificating about matters surrounding which you have only rudimentary knowledge (at best).
robertbruce really does have your number. and it shows.
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On 2005-03-05 19:43:00, RobertBruce wrote:
"Spelled Dahlongea wrong, but still so many interesting verifable facts.
http://www.heal-online.org/hiddenlake.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/hiddenlake.htm)
"
Oh, these folks rock! I can't believe I don't even have a link to them in Anonanon. Thanks, RB!
David Gilcrease, member of the Gilcrease family that founded Phillips Petroleum based his ?behavior modification? techniques on the research of B.F. Skinner and Fritz Perls who were experimenting with mind control/brainwashing in the 20th century. He is founder of Resource Realizations, which has been sued along with the Worldwide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) for mentally and physically torturing and brainwashing America's children.
On the board of Phillips Petroleum, Halliburton, and advisor to the Supreme Court is long time George Bush associate Lawrence Eagleburger. On the board of SkyWest Airlines, servicing and in seeming partnership with George Bush airport in Texas is none other than J. Ralph Atkin, part owner of Teen Help/WWASPS. President Bush is trying to move legislation that will institute the drugging and behavior modification of children in public schools with the ?New Freedom Initiative?. The largest Utah-based corporate contributor to the Republican Party is World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools.
http://www.heal-online.org/#teen (http://www.heal-online.org/#teen)
God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.
--Voltaire (1694-1778)
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Wow, lots going on since last week?? just wanted to stop by and read, i just wanted to touch on one or two things...
thank you, Deborah for that albiet off handed compliment...i actually had done nannying but decided that writing a book will help more people at one time...still in progress sad to say! i have the links that i don't remember the name gave about the article...have not had a chance to read them and don't know if i will even comment when i do...and lastly the quote below from Deborah,
"Talk about reaction, I still have mine. And they swing from an ache that physically seizes my chest to an internal volcano that would like to erupt all over the facility. Don?t pretend for a minute that you are qualified or justified in evaluating my reaction to this injustice. And don?t ever, ever tell me I have lied or exaggerated. To do so would constitute the ultimate disrespect and/or ignorance on your part."
I am truly troubled by that because if i ever gave you, even for one instant, the idea that i was minimalizine the effect that your experiences has had on your family, or to say your reaction was not 100% justified for your situation then i sincerely apologize, it was never my intent to imply or insinuate. i would NEVER disrespect your reality. i do have to say that it is not everyone's reality though and hopefully trying to get that point across does not constitute the above.
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"I am a rare adult survivor of HLA - I got out IN FEBRUARY 2005,with a little sanity left. After teaching special education for nearly 20 years, I only survived 6 months at HLA. The kids don't feel they can talk to their counselors - maybe its manipulation - maybe not, so they told me things, but I was not in a position to do much except listen without criticizing them and then report safety concerns.ACTUALLY I REPORTED A SAFETY CONCERN TO A COUNSELOR (D.S.) THE DAY I LEFT. IT WAS ABOUT A GIRL WHO HAD JSUT RETURNED FROM A PSYCH HOSPITAL FOR TRYING TO COMMIT SUICIDE WHILE SHE WAS ON "clean air" _ where there is supposed to be extra supervision - THE GIRL HAD CUT SEVERAL MORE TIMES (mostly small stuff)DURING THE 24 - 36 HOURS SHE HAD BEEN BACK AT HLA AND TOLD ME SHE DIDN'T FEEL SAFE AND THOUGHT SHE NEEDED TO RETURN TO THE PSYCH HOSPITAL - I TOLD DOUG S. - ONE OF HER COUNSEWLORS ABOUT IT AND HE SAID "WELL, TELL HER TO CUT AGAIN AND THEN WE'LL SEND HER BACK TO THE PSYCH HOSPITAL." They certainly can't tell their parents their real feelings and experiences without being punished for being manipulative by those who are assigned to monitor their mail, email and phone calls. HLA is not the panacea for all teen problems - most of which kids grow out of or learn to use to their advantage in the business world. Some HLA kids need counseling, some need AA, some need psych hospitals; most need love and time to mature - most are there because their parents were MANIPULATED BY ED. CONSULTANTS AND HLA advertisements. Want a GREAT LAUGH? Go to "struggling teens.com/archives/2001/6/visit01.html" this is a site from "Woodbury Reports, Inc." some ed. consultant deal out of Idaho. This site, while only a few years old, certainly did not describe the HLA I just left. The article claimed the campus was attractive - that's about the only info. I can agree with in their entire review. All the "players" names have changed, except Len, who still owns it and seems like a decent guy, only he leaves the "Mice to play" while he does all his other business things and they do whatever they find most convenient (and maybe even sadistically fun). The article says all teachers are certified - try maybe 20%! The site claims all the kids have IEPs - not! Even if they come in with an IEP, HLA does not have to abide by it because they are a private institution. 100% do not attend college! The cafeteria does not over look the lake - maybe they visited on a rainy day! Restrictions kids get less food and water and are supervised by folks with questionable objectives. Most of the counselors are straight out of college with no experience, so they buy into what the administrators feed them about treating kids in a very punitive way and being constantly suspicious, not to mention telling them behavior modification works. It has been proven that behavior modification in humans is temporary at best.PARENTS - DO YOURSELF AND YOUR WALLET A FAVOR - BEFORE PICKING ANY BOARDING SCHOOL, VISIT UNANNOUNCED AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, AFTER PLACING YOUR KID IN ONE, VISIT UNANNOUNCED. Refuse to be treated like a mushroom- kept in the dark and fed crap! (Parents need to know when their son has been beaten up by a group of homophobic guys. (Some of the kids who came to tell me their problems were gay and felt they were being discriminated against because of this by their counselors and others.) Parents need to know when their daughter has stepped in big puddles of blood first thing in the morning that were left behind by her suicidal roomate. Parents need to know that group therapy has been shown to be more harmful than helpful for "cutters." THIS IS ALL SERIOUS AND FROM THE HEART BECAUSE I TRULY CARE ABOUT THESE KIDS. "
Posted from another message board, such a testament to the reality of HLA I felt it should be shared here as well.
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I'm about ready to start a new forum for HLA. What do ya'll think?
The only voluntary urine sample they'll get from me is a taste test
--Bumper Sticker
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i think it's a good idea. this place has lots of money and connections and drives a large part of the tc market.
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Ok, let's try and keep this topic bumped so that anyone who checks in the next couple of days will find it.
Since you [US "drug tsar" McCaffrey] control a federal budget that has just been increased from $17.8 billion last year to $19.2 billion this year, is asking people like you if we should continue with our nation's current drug policy like a person asking a barber if one needs a haircut? --
Orange Country, California
Los Angeles Times
29 March 2000
--Judge James P. Gray
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Ginger, you asked in another thread:
I notice that (Darrington-WWASP)it's very near Hidden Lake Academy in Dahlonega
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... forum=9&99 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5722&forum=9&99)
I wonder if they know each other?
They may know each other, but the owner of HLA has always tried to set himself apart from the used car salesmen in the industry.
Excerpts from a 1995 review at Struggling Teens:
Hidden Lake Academy was specifically founded in 1994 on the theories and principles of child growth and development of Erik Eriksen, Abraham Maslow, John Dewey and others. :question: [Some would very definitely disagree]
The daily life of the students is full. There is little free time, as is necessary for kids like these who missed some of the basic issues in growing up. Hidden Lake utilizes most of the tools that have been found to be effective in making a positive impact on children who have been oppositional and defiant. The first three stages have a wilderness experience, each one being longer and more intense than the preceding one. Each student has both individual and group counseling, called Realizations, which are focus topics looking especially at the key issues of the stage the student is in. Each stage has a Workshop, a multi-day group experience designed as a culminating activity for that stage. Then of course each student has his/her responsibilities (jobs) which are designed to teach responsibility and allow students the satisfaction that can come from work, as well as seeing that necessary work is done for the smooth functioning of the school.
Educational consultants love to compare and categorize schools, and in conversations I have been involved in, Hidden Lake has often been pointed to as an East coast version of some well known West coast schools. Some even take that further and conclude that Hidden Lake evolved out of the staff and experience of those older schools. Leonard Buccellato is emphatic that Hidden Lake is it's own creation and did not evolve out of another system.
There are, however, some understandable similarities. For example, Hidden Lake and other schools do work with similar types of students. Dr. Buccellato points out that research and experience have shown that any successful school that works with similar students will have to have some similar elements. For example, for kids with these behavior;/emotional problems, two groups a week is not enough and four or five groups a week would be too much. Consequently, to be effective, any school would settle on three groups a week. [Three days of therapy, two days of academics] In addition, culminating workshops are most effective about every three to four months to have maximum impact. So, he concludes, any similarities are surface only :question: , and when you look deeper under the surface at Hidden Lake, you will find significant differences from any other schools.
One of the major differences is in program length, which at eighteen months is shorter in duration than some other schools. [It would be interesting to know how many actual leave after 18 months. In my case 18 expanded to 22.] Dr. Buccellato explained this was planned in order to avoid the program dependency some students have developed in other programs. [Dependency is still an issue at 18 months] Therapeutically, the cognitive needs of the child are addressed as well as the emotional growth and development. :roll:
Another unique feature of Hidden Lake Academy is its emphasis on staff credentials. Counselors hold a minimum of master's degrees in various therapeutic disciplines and/or come to the Academy with solid experience in the field. Teachers hold baccalaureate or graduate degrees and are certified, some in the area of special education. Teachers and counselors work together in teams to implement the insight-oriented curriculum which helps students achieve the highest level of success possible, both academically and emotionally. [Teachers and staff do tend to be more 'qualified' for their positions, but there is a high turn-over. It would be interesting to know why.]
Len and Rudy [CEDU] taking me through the founding and philosophy of the school, I tend to agree: Hidden Lake Academy is unique and it's own creation. It is not a new configuration of another older system. [It appears that there are more similarities than differences.]
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... sit01.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1995/12/visit01.html)
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::bump::
Ginger asked:
I'm about ready to start a new forum for HLA. What do ya'll think?
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For the record there I never had any individual therapy.
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hey robert,
i know you posted it before, but when were you there?
i worked there in 1994-5 and was curious as to who was there (staff) when you were there...
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::bump::
Ginger asked:
I'm about ready to start a new forum for HLA. What do ya'll think?
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Good call, Ginger. this one's getting too long.
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Ok, time to do this then. If anyone has suggestions about how to phrase the description, I'm all ears (well, all eyes I guess)
Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you recognize a mistake when you make it again.
Mark Twain
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I was Astudent there for 23 months and the entire time i fucking hated it. I have to admit that there were times when it didnt totaly suck. I think that one of the factors that made it easier was my counslers. I had jen and daniel, they were fuckin hilarious. I jus found this site and some of the things that people say is funny as shit and so fucking true!!!
All the things that people say about the policies making the place suck, that is so true. the place changes to much. And talk about Ironic, Right now my girlfriend is attending the school. Now aint that a bitch! I hope to god that that place gets shut the fuck down. Do the world a favor.
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Hell Yah!!!!
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New HLA forum here:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=41&56 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=41&56)
so long as the universe had a beginning, we could suppose it had a creator. But if the universe is completely self-contained, having no boundary or edge, it would neither be created nor destroyed it would simply be. What place, then, for a creator?
--stephen Hawking, English scientist
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One more correction, if you haven't already made it.
This thread:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5722&forum=9 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5722&forum=9)
was the only thread in HLA#2.
and apparently was deleted when you closed that forum. It should be returned to HLA#1.
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No, I just moved it back to forum 9 (troubled teen industry)
Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
--Rep. Robert L. Henry, TX December 22, 1914 (quoting Lincoln)
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Hello, I attended HLA for two and a half years (pg44)(yes post grad too) I agree that that school just does not need to be running, and their system did not quite work for me. Deborah, how did you obtain all this info?
[email protected]
XedgeXnoXmore
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There is a forum specifically for HLA:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=41&136 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=41&136)
Which info?
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I graduated HLA in 2004. Just like everyone else i hated the place and i think that there were a lot of things that went on there that shouldn't have and probably still do. I asked my parents why they sent me there and they said they wanted to put me in a drug free environment where i could get help. well, needless to say, i didn't get help (big surprise), but i also was not in a drug free environment. For the duration of my stay at HLA several other students and myself traded articles of clothing to staff members in exchange for marijauna, cigarettes, and dip. some staff member's gave dip and cigarettes to us free of charge, including the director of athletics at the time. HLA doesn't fix kids, it just teaches them how to lie like the best.
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Will man! This is Ashley Taylor! remember me? You probably don't cuz we really didnt talk that much, but I figured I would say hey becuase we went to HLA together (dammit). Do you know of anyone else that is posting on this forum that we know?
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TO the anon. Who are you? I remember when that whole dip thing went down and it sucked. I was at HLA for 14 months from 2002 to 2003 and into 2004. You can send me a private message if you dont want your name on the internet. My email is [email protected]
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Umm.. I was on restriction for two months and three days becuase I wouldn't admit to snorting a chopped up glucose tablet. (Ive never even SEEN a glucose tablet!!)
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Ok we really need to start a forum for past students so we can all get together and do something about this.
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There is a forum specifically for HLA:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=41&136 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=41&136)
This thread was left in the Teen Help Industry forum.
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I think I remember you, didn't you get fired from HLA? No wonder you have so much hostility and anger, perhaps you need to seek professional help to deal with your issues of displaced anger?
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If you were referring to me... No I didn't work there. I was a student there for 20 months. Dont go off on the whole disgruntled student thing either because I am going to VCU on a full theatre scholarship and I've got a 4.1 and I surely didn't get there from being at HLA. thank you
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On 2005-04-24 15:15:00, greenarrow wrote:
"I think I remember you, didn't you get fired from HLA? No wonder you have so much hostility and anger, perhaps you need to seek professional help to deal with your issues of displaced anger?"
If you read any of this thread you would have seen that this young lady is a former "student" at HLA, not staff.
Why don't you seek professional help for being a systematic child abuser? Maybe get some help for your collegues as well. They need it.
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Arnold Schopenhauer (1788-1860) - Atheist and Christian Sympathizer.
"Reality is blind and, therefore, irrational and evil"
Asceticism consists in the constant action of nullifying the will itself. Art suspends will; ethics (compassion) mortifies it; aescetics nullifies it.
The moral teachings of Schopenhauer, culminating in his asceticism, the nullification of life, is completely opposed to morality, which glorifies life.
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The following is a letter I had written in response to a concerned parent who currently has a child at Hidden Lake Academy:
"Hello. The letter you viewed was one I'd written last year around this time actually. I'd love to answer any questions you have. I must first ask though, why was he sent to HLA? The reason I ask is because you need to ask yourself a very serious question, Was the way he was before he went to HLA as dangerous as how he may feel upon his life after HLA? I'll give you a quick background of my story in order for you to understand. Right up to the time before I went to HLA, I had ceased caring whether I lived or died and had become a wandering junkie among the streets after dropping out of school and running away from home. I was sent to HLA upon a court order. I don't want to go into detail about how horrible my experience was at HLA, but I will say that there's no real individual counseling in order to find out what each child needs. It's all done the cheapest way possible in order for them to still say that they are counseling, which is group counseling. Group counseling on a mass structure can be successful when everyone may be suffering from the same problems such as Alcoholics Anonymous, but in this case what one child needs another may not. You must also understand that because of this they fill everyones heads with the same rules of life by breaking down everything they've been taught and rebuilding their thinking. This sounds as if it could be good, yes? But it's not. It's not actually correcting any problems. It's covering them up with a therapeutic veneer and teaching them to suppress their problems since they're not actually working through them. This insures that they may seem like things are better for them and that they're cured for a long enough time for them to leave HLA and then some. As you know though, anything suppressed will eventually surface and need to be dealt with again. So in actuallity HLA did nothing except offer a temporary fix. For some it does work, but very few. Most of the children end up with double the amount of problems, because you then have to worry about the same old problems accompanied by the trust issues and identity disorder that HLA has installed. After leaving HLA I started noticing that I felt like a robot. It took awhile to figure out who I was again. Through all this searching I was lucky, because I started noticing subtle beauties in life that made me want to live, plus being sober I was able to look back at all the wrongs I'd done and people I'd hurt and became determined to change some of my ways. Now I'm a very happy person for the most part, but I do suffer from some problems that I'm not sure if I'll ever be able to overcome, because my mind doesn't recognize them. They're purely irrational thoughts that I can't control which cause me to have panic attacks. I have social anxiety disorder and some serious trust issues from things my last psychologist said had become such a deep part of my psyche that it was part of my personality and could become a danger to try to change. I have learned to function fine as long as I take my medication. I am in a very successful relationship, my parents and I are now much better friends, and I care about my life as well as others'... Once again, I must say, that was my story. Everybody's story's different. For some the rebellious teenager is just a phase. It's practically impossible to know that though since we can't see the future. My parents have apologized a few times about getting me sent to HLA, because they see what it has done. They say that if they could go back they would do things differently. I don't think it's that easy though. I needed some help and my parents just didn't know what to do. I do not blame them for anything. They did what they felt they had to after we'd gotten into some serious scuffles and they saw me slowly but rapidly dying. You can see why I said that this is a very hard question to deal with. My advice personally is not HLA and is one on one counseling with the whole family. Make sure also that the psychologist is not a friend of anyone in the family, because you do not want them to be tempted into taking sides because of the personal relationship he/she has with a family member. For all we know, there may be things about all of you that may need to change in order for there to be that balance that your family needs. I know that's how it was for us, my family that is. This means that you must be open for anything that your therapist may say to you without getting defensive. There is no easy way out of this. Remember that... I to have never told my parents certain disturbing things that have gone on there, because they already beat themselves up over sending me there, so I can understand why your son is reluctant to say anything. Plus there's also the fact that he's scared to because of what they may try to pull. I was brainwashed into trying to commit suicide when they found out that I was trying to get my court order dropped because I felt like I'd worked through all of my problems, mostly on my own because i was willing and wanted to change things in my life. They wanted me to slip up and try something so as not to lose my money. It didn't exactly work as they wanted it to because we discovered what they were trying to do. Avarice and the ability to control someone's mind don't mix... Concerning your academics worry, there are no real academics. In spanish, the answers were always on the bottom of the page upside down and no teaching was involved, just worksheets. It's a gimic in order to make the parents feel as if some change is occuring. You cannot fail a class, you get incompletes until they make you do it with work assignments or calistenics. I remember when I made honor roll, my parents were so proud that I didn't even tell them that I was only in my first week of the school classes and hadn't actually done anything yet. So he may get good grades, but there's no serious learning taking place. I'd be more worried about his being able to function upon leaving than his academics though, because his credits should transfer fine. But he may do horrible in the next school because although it states that he made an A in the previous math class, there's a good chance he didn't learn anything, so it's going to be more difficult for him to keep up since he's been out of a real school environment for so long... I hope that all of this will encourage you to make the decision you feel is best. I'm sorry you must go through this, but since you must, please make the best educated decision possible. This is your son's future and possibly his life at stake. Since you obviously care about him in order to seek my help, I'm sure you'll do what is best. Here is a link yu may find helpful, http://www.heal-online.org/hiddenlake.htm... (http://www.heal-online.org/hiddenlake.htm...). Are you aware that there are a few class action lawsuits in the works against HLA?.. Please do not tell HLA that you have spoken with me. They are very powerful and have the ability to come up with answers to anything, hence the psychologist part. I'm risking alot by sharing these things with you. Thankyou and Goodluck. Love, Me"
I have posted this with the hopes that I could help answer some questions for those in worry. If you are planning to or know someone who may be planning to undergo such circumstances, please forward on this letter. Thankyou.
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This is an old post from somewhere else. Someone has cut and pasted it on every Hidden Lake Academy thread in Fornits Forum. It doesnt give much detailed information though, as to when this child attended, or how long they were there, or when these class action suits took place or are going to take place. Maybe this anonymous person could expand a little on the subject.
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your full of shit. i went to hla for a year and my parents were not allowed to contact me because i found out information that they told my parents that wasnt true. when the scam blew up, my parents were pissed because they were lied to so hla could get some money. they pulled me immediately but not in time to see my stepmothers death. ive been out for 2 years and im now valedictorian at a very prestigious college prep high school. im going to bucknell next year. ridge creek helped me a lot but hla just fucked up a huge part of my life
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It truly pleases me to hear that you've turned out so well in spite of HLA. Lots of kids who go through these emotional growth hell holes aren't so fortunate. And yes, these so-called "schools" are a HUGE fraud. I hope you continue posting here my friend, and do keep up the good work.
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i agree hla sucks major ass it should be shut down
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HLA Forum
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=41&509 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=41&509)
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I am a former member of peer group 50..
As Cliche as this may sound...
I might not be alive if I had not been sent there..but the "program and counseling" of HLA did not change me. I changed because of the friendships I made and hardships I endured (both self inflicted and external) during my stay at HLA-- Happiness is simply a choice- and HLA was a def. experience that made what I thought were hard situations and the "miserable" life I thought I was being forced to live a MUCH DESIRED AND NOW APPRECIATED cakewalk and adventure. I am open to talk on any subject (emotions felt, stories, and more) and share the TRUTHS of what I, my parents, and cousin, all expierenced while residing in the mountains of Dahlonega (incl. prev. behaviors, fam info, etc) up to my life outlook and opinions of the present day. I have many untainted memories and advice for anyone who made need it.
You can even email me--- [email protected]
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I had some interesting times at HLA and I would definately say that it was of great benefit. I hated every minute, and managed to escape a couple times, but in the end it was worth it.
By simply spending 18 months out of my "negative home environment" and away from drugs, girls, etc. it allowed me time to mature and think farther than two minutes into the future. Now I can think at least five or six :smile: I give the 1995-97' staff and overall experience 8/10.
My name is Eric and if you'd like to hear more or catch up (if the rest of my peer group isnt dead) feel free to email me:
[email protected]
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I was a member of Peer Group 34, and I stumbled upon this forum looking for information on the HLA reunion. I'm more interested in the road trip from Chicago to Dahlonga, but I figure it can't hurt to get some closure on the worst experience of my life... Even 4 years after graduating from the program, I have flashbacks.
I had managed to earn myself a scholarship to a private liberal arts college, even with the on-going torture brought on by the school, but half-way through my first semester I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. For the first 2 years following my HLA experience, my life became worse than it ever was before. I dropped out of college. I developed new issues and struggled with life in a whole new way.
I am finally in control of my life again, but no thanks to HLA!! Everything I have now, i had to work my ass off for--using a "language of feelings" which no one in the "real world" even speaks!! And here I am at work, worried my supervisors will think I'm being munipulative or playing "Mommy-Daddy games"... and they don't even know what the hell I'm talking about. I am now affected with a level of paranoia I have never had, among other things.
So any parents who stumble upon this site looking for info on Hidden Lake Academy, think twice about how important it really is to end any chance your kid has of a normal life. Unless they're into assault and armed robbery, THEY DON'T DESERVE THIS PUNISHMENT FOR ACTING OUT LIKE ALL TEENAGERS DO.
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(Removed)[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2006-01-17 18:17 ]
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The easiest way to get inside would be to apply for a job or be a student Hahahaha. What exactly did you have in mind Overlordd? What are you going to do once you "get inside" ?
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(Removed)[ This Message was edited by: OverLordd on 2006-01-17 18:15 ]
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What kinds of things do you think you could get on film?
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it's not that big of a campus. an photos you could get would not show much, in fact hla has such a nice curb appeal. :smokin:
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If you want pictures of the campus just go to their website. It shows pictures of the campus grounds and buildings.
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How is the project going Overlordd? Have you been able to get any pictures of Hidden Lake Academy's property yet?
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I was in Peer group 70 and got alot to say anyone please respong HLA needs a lawsuit anyone from HLA or beyond respond.
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is this Ryan Patterson
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(removed)
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I was also i member at hla. i went there for 2 years with my peer group. After my peer group left, my counsolers told my parents that i wasn't ready to come home yet, so i got sent back for another year. hla was the worst thing that has ever happened to me. being yelled at, forced to do PT in the freezing rain and mud, having food taken away as punishment, being sent to Ridge Creek, but what hurt the worst was being away from my parents. I wasn't able to tell them how bad it was. Then at Ridge Creek, i was running 3 miles one morning so that they would let me eat breakfast, i fell and damaged my knee. I should have went to the emergency room then, but they wouldn't let me. I had to wait another 2 and half weeks before they would let me see their doctor. I ended up having an operation because of that horrible place. I would never send anybody loved to that place. Not unless you want them to wake up in the morning crying and hopeless. Make sure you understand the policy with strip searches, dorm searches, restrictions, and forceful yelling, and the constant child labor of restrictions. Restrictions is nothing but unlawful child labor that no body will do anything about.
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Is your son mentally stable?
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On 2005-10-04 05:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
but what hurt the worst was being away from my parents. I wasn't able to tell them how bad it was.
Man! This is really intriguing to me. See, I had no interest in talking to my parents except to say "I told ya so" at the end of it. But my family had been involved for a decade already. I didn't expect my parents to take my side unless and until I had proven that I did, indeed, get it and rejected 'it' for very good reasons.
Mom is still alive and, as far as I know, not willing to entertain the notion that the Program wasn't the best thing that almost happened to our family. Dad did come to terms w/ that, but he's passed on now.
Did your parents ever come to reasonable terms w/ that?Hear me people: We now have to deal with another race - small and feeble when our fathers first met them, but now great and overbearing. Strangely enough they have a mind to till the soil and the love of possessions is a disease with them. These people have made many rules which the rich may break but the poor may not. They take their tithes from the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule.
Chief Sitting Bull, speaking at the Powder River Conference, 1877
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I'm an honest to god survivor of HLA. I saw a kid stab (them)selves in the art room or slitting their wrists with a broken mirror. send me an email If you have any questions about the school
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Hello,
I am new here and stumled across this board while searching for HLA on the net. HLA was recommended today for our 13 yo old son, who was turned down at a local private school. Would appreciate any feedback on this school.
Thank you,
Jody
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If you have time to scroll through the arguments amongst some ex-participants and staff, there is actually some useful information in the HLA forum:
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=41&1447 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=41&1447)
You might also glean some insight from the HLA alumni site:
http://groups.myspace.com/HiddenLakeAcademy (http://groups.myspace.com/HiddenLakeAcademy)
Again, you'll have to scroll through chit chat to find pertinent info.
Also check the ISAC site for general info on program:
http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.html)
Ask for a copy of their policies and procedures. Have an attorney review them as well as the contract you'll sign. Consider if you want to turn your son over to strangers and have little contact with him, at the tender age of 13. You'd be wise to spend some time researhing before making such a huge decision. Your son will appreciate and respect you for doing so.
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If his well being is of concern, you should ensure that your son can clearly identify the difference between abuse and reasonable consequences. Carefully outline the difference and drill him on it before he goes. Be sure that he knows it so well that he can?t be convinced otherwise once out of your care.
Be sure that he understands that they should not, under any circumstances
*Limit his caloric intake, deny meals, or rush completion of a meal as punishment. He should receive no less than 1800 calories per day which should include a variety of foods. He should receive up to 3000 calories per day if doing extra physical training or with exposure to cold weather.
*Require him to do manual labor that they would otherwise have to hire done- maintenance of the facility and grounds.
*Censor his mail and phone calls with you. You are his only ally in the real world. Take that role seriously by not allowing the facility to shut you off from your child- no rational reason for it.
*Tell him that you fully support everything they might do, and/or that you don't love or care about him.
That?s for starters. There are just so many other, more subtle forms of abuse that are difficult to prepare him for. I mean, how do you explain to a 13 year old how to recognize ?bait and punish?? How do you instruct him on the proper use of restraint- when it is being used for protection or punishment, and which holds are legal. And, most importantly, how not to resist- can result in injury or death by ?excited delirium?- his own ?fault?.
He should understand the inappropriateness of staff entering into intimate relationships with their charges.
Prepare him for the reality of harsh treatment from his peers. They may have mercy on him because he will be one of the younger kids, but chances are good that he will be someone?s whipping boy. He should know that he will be living with those considered to be the ?worst of the worst?, some even criminals. Court ordered.
Also important would be to educate him on drugs. Oh yes, they can be had. Where there?s a will, there?s a way. And when they can?t, some resort to collecting wild plants and mushrooms. Get a good reference book so he can learn to ID and steer clear of the bad shrooms and plants such as datura.
Well, that should keep you busy for a while. Who knows, with any luck, by the time you prepare him for living in a teen bm warehouse, your problem child may transformed into the child you always wanted.
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I would carefully explore all of your options. The things that your son is struggling with should be taken in to account when looking for a placement. any place that he goes to will have good points and bad points. his welfare should be paramount. in my opinion the younger students tend to struggle more and have a harder time at hla, especially if they are less mature than thier peers. talk to as many people that you can find about any school, take a look at the hla section on this board, it will help you get a better feel for the school and some of the former students and there are a few staff also.
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Jody ...
There are lots of possibilities for placements, if indeed one is needed. But getting turned down by one private school and somebody suggesting HLA hardly seems a reason to send a 13 year old away.
I'd make suggestions if I knew more, and if doing so wouldn't subject me to untold abuse from those who oppose all therapeutic schools. Some are quite good, others are terrible, and a few are downright abusive. There is no reason to take a chance on anything questionable. Just also remember that any school, including open, public schools, can have a problem, and schools enrolling kids with real behavior issues are more likely to have challenges. That is not a reason for abuse, but neither is it reason to jump if one kid in 100 has a genuine accident or hurts himself.
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My heart goes out to the students and families that didn't have a positive experience at HLA, and apparently those are the only ones we're hearing from. These comments do not represent my son's peer group though, at least the ones that stuck it out and are finishing the program. Our son has turned his life around since going to HLA. He is self-confident, happy, has made incredible friendships that I know he will treasure for a lifetime and has become very close to both of his counselors and a lot of the staff. I have two 3-inch notebooks jammed with copies of our almost daily emails, we talk twice a week on the phone (and though there is a counselor nearby, it has never influenced our conversations, which are sometimes negative and most of the time not). I admit, the first couple months were rough with minimal contact except in letters, but it kept getting better and he gots lots of privileges as he progressed through the elements. He has been home for frequent visits. Granted, in the beginning there were lots of things I'm sure he hated about HLA. He was NEVER abused though, trust me, or he would not have stayed. When he turned 18, he chose to complete the program. He's looking forward to a future full of opportunities he never would have had otherwise, and has been accepted in a couple different colleges. He is and always has been an incredible kid. He had some serious issues, like all the kids do that go there, or they wouldn't be there in the first place. He has grown up and gotten his life back. No program is perfect, but HLA was a good thing for him. He would have preferred to be home, no doubt, but admits the environment he left was not what he needed if he was going to have a future. He also went to Ridge Creek and thought it was great. He even started thinking he might get into counseling or working with teens himself someday. He has always loved the outdoors and never felt like he was being abused or tortured. He also gained weight and looked healthier than he had in two years. I'm sure the people who are bitter and angry have their own stories and I respect that. Just don't put everyone and the entire program down, because it has helped a lot more kids than it has failed. It gave us our son back and our family is happy now and eagerly awaiting his homecoming. I've seen a ton of improvements and changes at HLA just in the last 18 months. I hope they keep improving the program. Oh, to the person who said it's rich parents who ship their kids off so they don't have to deal with them..... that's a crock. Sending your child away, regardless of their problems, is the hardest thing any parent could ever have to do other that witness their child destroying their life with drugs or alcohol or some other problem that could destroy their lives as effectively as a car wreck! I just wish that all the parents and kids that need help will keep searching until they get it. Do your research but then give HLA a chance. It worked for a lot of us.
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I am currently a student at HLA and I felt it would be good to voice my opinion. I am 17 years of age , about to turn 18.( after my 18th birthday when given the oppurtunity to leave at my own free will , I am going to continue to finish the program) while HLA has it's down sides, as most things in life do , HLA is a place that can help if you are willing to let it. I have spent several days rejecting the program , trying to fool myself , friends, councelors and family that I should be pulled b/c I am fine.I also fully admit to several conversations with my friends also enrolled in the program about how much we hate our lives there and how we want to one day shut it down or run away.I have served time on restriction, clean air , and staff escorts.I also have been given a chance to grow and learn from my life and others. I have received great advice from adults and peers there that look out for your best interests. Looking back after being in the program for 11 months , I feel staying has been one of the best decisions my family and I have made in a long time.Should certain things at HLA be changed in my honest opinion... Sure! I also think that Subway should come out with a new kind of sandwich. In other words, HLA may or may not change. Is the way the programs working right now truely honestly causing harm to anyone?... From my first hand experiencen NO. HLA is not the right place for everyone. It can be too strict for some cases , and too leniant for others. If the HLA experience has been negetive for any students and there families ,I truely feel for them and hope they are getting the help they may or may not need else where. All I can say is that is has been infact the one thing that has helped me ( and I have been to wilderness , emotional growth boarding school , traditional boarding school , and both private and public highschool) To anyone looking into HLA , get all the facts you can. But choose your basis for judgement on your own experience, not others. Not on mine , or anyone else's on this website. I will leave it at that
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You are CURRENTLY a student, eh? :roll: Why are you wasting your time coming on an internet board to explain all this?
Could it be that the SCHOOL IS MAKING YOU DO THIS!??
YOU ARE FUCKING PATEHTIC HLA & CO!! PATHETIC!
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What makes you think the student isn't doing it of their own free will? Do you honestly think that NO student at all would ever say they think HLA helped them? That would be pretty ignorant I think.
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no. i would like to think its because I tkae pride in my school and my progress in life to become a better person.but I also respect other peoples opinions.so why are you on this website may I ask ?
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thank you for your input.. yet it is on my own free will. I am currently on break at home. why else would I be here if I didnt care about helping teens with what they may easily get lost in. thats why i care , for people like me who have struggled and for once, want help.
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Why are you wasting your time coming on an internet board....
Oh, wait a minute, I am on an internet board. I feel so stupid, but atleast my response is intelligent and thought out and I used emotocons to express how I am feeling instead of words. It just makes me mad when others are doing so well, I only like to hear from people who are doing poorly and are angry like me. What was that I said again?
Oh, yea, YOU ARE FUCKING PATEHTIC HLA & CO!! PATHETIC (I thought that line up myself), I feel so good after saying that.
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haha well I give you props. it was smooth. and im sorry fi im not angry enough for you , ( beleive me , I used to be , still am in some ways) but is also bugs me when people bash stuff that has helped people. so in a way , we are both on the same page, just with different things.
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what do you have to do with HLA anyways ? why are you on this website ?
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I never actually went to HLA but I like to bash all programs, throw gas on the fire so they look worse than they really are. I hate my parents and this is a good release for me. It pisses me off when other people come on here and pretend to have a good relationship with their parents when they know all parents suck and only want to screw their kids up by sending them away.
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what if I told you im not faking it. not dont get me wrong.. ive got issues. im not lil miss perfect preacher. ive been through hell in my life. i dont mean that liek im saying i have it worse than you or anyone else , i dont play that game. but i just mean , ive been where it seems like you are. but it can get better. i knwo you dont wanna hear that. i used to beat up anyone who used to tell me that. but it is true.
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::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry::
::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry::
::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry::
::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry:: ::mecry::
pweese believe me HLA is good
pweez wont somwun beleeve me ??
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ps you sound pretty stupid. are all kids who go to HLA so dumb? it doesnt reflect well on the school
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On 2005-12-28 20:02:00, lostatonepoint wrote:
"no. i would like to think its because I tkae pride in my school and my progress in life to become a better person.but I also respect other peoples opinions.so why are you on this website may I ask ?"
::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: ::fuckoff:: ::both:: ::both:: ::both:: ::both::
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substandard education, substandard therapy, behavior modification program, LGAT seminars, restriction of food as punishment, sleep deprivation, failed health inspections, court-ordered kids, use of restraint, strip searches, censored communications, sexual relationships b/w staff and patients, forced labor unrelated to "offenses," unqualified staff, fake degrees, wilderness punishment, false advertising, drugs on campus, sexual activity b/w patients on campus, locked at night, vermin, insects, moldy rooms and, most of all, record profits...all rolled into one and only a paltry $7000.00 per month.
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On 2005-12-29 13:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"substandard education, substandard therapy, behavior modification program, LGAT seminars, restriction of food as punishment, sleep deprivation, failed health inspections, court-ordered kids, use of restraint, strip searches, censored communications, sexual relationships b/w staff and patients, forced labor unrelated to "offenses," unqualified staff, fake degrees, wilderness punishment, false advertising, drugs on campus, sexual activity b/w patients on campus, locked at night, vermin, insects, moldy rooms and, most of all, record profits...all rolled into one and only a paltry $7000.00 per month."
Dead on. This is dead-on accurate.
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Accurate my ass, you little bitch boys
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On 2005-12-29 13:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"substandard education, substandard therapy, behavior modification program, LGAT seminars, restriction of food as punishment, sleep deprivation, failed health inspections, court-ordered kids, use of restraint, strip searches, censored communications, sexual relationships b/w staff and patients, forced labor unrelated to "offenses," unqualified staff, fake degrees, wilderness punishment, false advertising, drugs on campus, sexual activity b/w patients on campus, locked at night, vermin, insects, moldy rooms and, most of all, record profits...all rolled into one and only a paltry $7000.00 per month."
Truth hurts. :nworthy:
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Some of this is true. Some of this is outdated. Some of this only occured one time. And some of this is complete crap
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On 2005-12-30 09:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Some of this is true. Some of this is outdated. Some of this only occured one time. And some of this is complete crap"
And some of us are program apologists... :roll:
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On 2005-12-30 09:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Some of this is true. Some of this is outdated. Some of this only occured one time. And some of this is complete crap"
Pleas validate what you can and disqualify what you can. I personally can validate each one of these items.
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who started up this whole argument anyways... and why the hell are they so bitter. it works for some, not for all. just everyone shut up already
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On 2005-12-30 14:58:00, lostatonepoint wrote:
"just everyone shut up already
"
No, you shut up!
:roll:
what are you 5?
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HLA Leads the way!!! :wave:
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On 2005-12-30 18:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"HLA Leads the way!!! :wave: "
TO HELL!
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On 2005-12-29 16:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-29 13:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"substandard education, substandard therapy, behavior modification program, LGAT seminars, restriction of food as punishment, sleep deprivation, failed health inspections, court-ordered kids, use of restraint, strip searches, censored communications, sexual relationships b/w staff and patients, forced labor unrelated to "offenses," unqualified staff, fake degrees, wilderness punishment, false advertising, drugs on campus, sexual activity b/w patients on campus, locked at night, vermin, insects, moldy rooms and, most of all, record profits...all rolled into one and only a paltry $7000.00 per month."
Dead on. This is dead-on accurate."
Can anyone invalidate these points? I can VALIDATE all of them. If there is any dissent on this, I'm sure everyone would like to hear it.
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I'm glad to see a comment from someone that actually is involved with HLA. I think all these other comments are from parents who have had the wool pulled over their eyes by their bratty kids - HELLO - maybe they should write again after their kid gets sent to jail or develops a major drug problem that almost kils them like my daughter did. No kid likes to be told the rules after they've been used to running the show. These parents should all grow up and have some backbone. They're a bunch of wussies and crybabies and no wonder their kids are having problems.
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It's obvious you should have stayed at HLA, you need alot of help.
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On 2006-01-06 17:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'm glad to see a comment from someone that actually is involved with HLA. I think all these other comments are from parents who have had the wool pulled over their eyes by their bratty kids - HELLO - maybe they should write again after their kid gets sent to jail or develops a major drug problem that almost kils them like my daughter did. No kid likes to be told the rules after they've been used to running the show. These parents should all grow up and have some backbone. They're a bunch of wussies and crybabies and no wonder their kids are having problems. "
Puritanism: The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher
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On 2006-01-06 17:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It's obvious you should have stayed at HLA, you need alot of help."
Seems to me this person has had HLA's brand of help. What they really need, is professional help.
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On 2006-01-06 18:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-06 17:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It's obvious you should have stayed at HLA, you need alot of help."
Seems to me this person has had HLA's brand of help. What they really need, is professional help."
This sounds about right. HLA and its "program" turn out some really aberrant, deviant people.
In my experience, the program only teaches the patients not to say what they're thinking. It doesn't change their beliefs. Oftentimes, after years of bottling up the BS the program inflicts upon them, they just explode when they are no longer constrained by the fear of punishment.
My estimation is that fully half of the program "graduates" come out even worse off than when they went in, they're just sneakier, more manipulative, lie better and generally know how to go about things without getting caught. Make no mistake, the kids that go there that don't have seriously maladaptive thinking and behaviors learn those very behaviors from the truly disturbed kids they come into contct with and also the staff, who are master manipulators and liars.
I mean, come on, do you REALLY believe some unqualified, pseudo-professional strangers in a cult-like environment in the hills of north Georgia are going to FIX your kid? Get real.
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The staff credentials listed on their website show masters degree counselors. Maybe when you were there they weren't as qualified, but they appear to be so now.
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On 2006-01-07 10:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The staff credentials listed on their website show masters degree counselors. Maybe when you were there they weren't as qualified, but they appear to be so now."
"Qualified" is a term that needs qualification.
Simply because someone has a master's degree means absolutely nothing when one takes into consideration that the program itself has been shown by numerous longitudinal studies to be ineffective at best and damaging at worst.
Taking into account that HLA-like programs DO NOT WORK for mental health treatment, what kind of "professional" would employ this type of program? Well, I submit that no professional therapist would use this type of behavior modification system because they know full well that they will not acheive the desired results. Therefore, the people who employ these tactics and methods cannot be considered professionals.
I'll give you a different example. If your car was broken down and you took it to an ASE certified mechanic (you would assume a "professional" based on their credentials) and rather than diagnosing your vehicle with a computer, isolating the trouble and fixing it, he began to kick the fenders over and over with steel-toed boots, I think you'd question whether or not he's a professional.
HLA employees may have an education, but they certainly don't apply it. If they did, they'd say to themselves "What the fuck am I doing here?" That is exactly what happened in my case.
I knew after a very short period of time working there that HLA did not provide proper and adequate mental health services to their clients. I left because I could not reconcile the way things are SUPPOSED to be done with the way things ARE done at HLA. If you'd like, I can certainly provide you with links to proper scientific studies that prove without doubt that the methodology employed by HLA and HLA-like RTC's simply fails to produce results.
And, please, before you fly off the handle, I am an MSW and also an MBA. I think I am qualified in both respects to speak to the practices HLA uses in both their "program" and their business.
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I think this is a good place to point out that the Teen Behavior Modification industry has a very long history of lying about the credentials of the employees. They also have a long history of listing people with impressive-sounding credentials as staff, when those people are seldom, if ever there. Also, many of the students at TBM facilities have historically completed their entire stay with one or two contacts, at most, with credentialed professionals.
Since there are no consumer protection laws, there are few licensing requirements, and there is almost no oversight to enforce what licensing requirements there are, buying services from a TBM facility is very much like buying patent medicines before the FDA was created and started requiring ingredients to be listed on the labels.
You don't know what's in the bottle.
Even when there's a label on the bottle, there's no oversight or enforcement to say that what the label says is what's really in the bottle.
Even with modern labelling laws, say you buy something like a "fruit drink" that says on the label, "With real fruit juice!" What you're likely to get is 90% sugar water and a 10% mix of mostly water with a very little boiled down fruit concentrate.
There is no consumer protection, and no oversight to ensure that the staff listed really have those credentials, really are staff, or that the kids there spend a significant amount of time with those folks.
It's all caveat emptor, and the track record of the industry is not good.
Because parents are told not to believe anything their kid says, the parents have no way of verifying what's in that bottle of patent medicine.
Buying snake oil off the back of a wagon from a slick salesman with a good line of gab is a real dumb way to try to heal, "fix," or "help" your kid.
I gotta wonder if the parents who think these places are good ideas also send money to televangelists, buy weight loss products from TV ads, buy penis enlargers from spammers, and have close email relationships with wealthy nigerian princes.
How many of these people give out their information when PayPal emails them asking for them to "verify" their account information? How many give out their credit card information when the card company calls to "verify" their number?
How many of them have bought Amway or sent money to claim sweepstakes prizes?
How many have bought their meds *cheap!* over the internet?
Dang, I would love to play poker with some of these people. Especially if they let me deal. We'll use my cards, 'k?
:cool: :cool: :cool:
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On 2006-01-07 11:56:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2006-01-07 10:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The staff credentials listed on their website show masters degree counselors. Maybe when you were there they weren't as qualified, but they appear to be so now."
"Qualified" is a term that needs qualification.
Simply because someone has a master's degree means absolutely nothing when one takes into consideration that the program itself has been shown by numerous longitudinal studies to be ineffective at best and damaging at worst.
Taking into account that HLA-like programs DO NOT WORK for mental health treatment, what kind of "professional" would employ this type of program? Well, I submit that no professional therapist would use this type of behavior modification system because they know full well that they will not acheive the desired results. Therefore, the people who employ these tactics and methods cannot be considered professionals.
I'll give you a different example. If your car was broken down and you took it to an ASE certified mechanic (you would assume a "professional" based on their credentials) and rather than diagnosing your vehicle with a computer, isolating the trouble and fixing it, he began to kick the fenders over and over with steel-toed boots, I think you'd question whether or not he's a professional.
HLA employees may have an education, but they certainly don't apply it. If they did, they'd say to themselves "What the fuck am I doing here?" That is exactly what happened in my case.
I knew after a very short period of time working there that HLA did not provide proper and adequate mental health services to their clients. I left because I could not reconcile the way things are SUPPOSED to be done with the way things ARE done at HLA. If you'd like, I can certainly provide you with links to proper scientific studies that prove without doubt that the methodology employed by HLA and HLA-like RTC's simply fails to produce results.
And, please, before you fly off the handle, I am an MSW and also an MBA. I think I am qualified in both respects to speak to the practices HLA uses in both their "program" and their business.
"
This is an excellent point. And absolutely true.
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Dysfunction Junction worked there over 11 years ago and has no idea whether or not the qualifications of current staff members is adequate or not. This is an assumption on his part.
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DJ is eminantly qualified to discuss the efficacy of the program. He specifically said that he was not arguing the educational credentials of most of the employees, but rather the effectiveness of the program itself.
He has, on numerous occasions, provided data and links to studies that show the program that HLA uses simply doesn't work. It matters not when he worked there, although it matters greatly that he did work there in a therapeutic, direct care capacity. His description of the program goes unchallenged. Not one single person has ever attempted to disqualify his, nor the mental health community's (NIMH, NIH, etc.) assessment of that program.
So, if your aim is simply to divert attention from the discussion, i.e. the discussion of the effectiveness of HLA's program, well, that won't work.
Considering that you, Suzanne, have never seen any counseling sessions, any group "therapy," have never carried a caseload, and have absolutely no direct knowledge of or educational background to discuss such matters, maybe you should stick to your area of expertise.
When a discussion is initiated about HLA's mortage rate, you will be an invaluable asset. However, since you know absolutely nothing about behavior modification or millieu control, you are therefore completely and utterly unqualified to assess any aspect of the program.
DJ's conclusions, supported by copious research by several qualified scientific studies, about the workings of the program and its effectiveness have never been in question.
Try to stick to what you actually know about psychotherapy or social work, which amounts to nil.
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I am not named Suzanne
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Then please state your bona-fides. What are your credentials to be able to speak about the points in the previous post?
You might want to try using a screenname to avoid confusion.
It's worth noting, though, that you made no attempt to refute the facts posted, but rather are still only serving to distract from the topic.
Don't troll. Contribute. you seem not able to form any cogent thoughts on the topic.
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On 2006-01-09 09:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Dysfunction Junction worked there over 11 years ago and has no idea whether or not the qualifications of current staff members is adequate or not. This is an assumption on his part. "
Suzanne, it's fruitless to try to deny your identity. You are not a technical person, so let me explain once again how this works.
Every time you post you leave an "electronic receipt" of the transaction. Here are some things I know about your computer from your postings: your IP address, your MAC address (which is the invariant identifier unique to your network interface card used to identify a particular computer) and a few other items that I'll choose not to reveal at this point.
If you want to contribute to the dialogue, please do. Your attempts to distract from the topic will only result in your being publicly admonished by name. You can post anonymously all you like, but just remember your UNIQUE IDENTIFIERS don't change just because you decided not to post your name.
I suggest you start using your username or at least signing your posts. If you continue to distract from the conversation and deny your identity you will only lose whatever shred of believability you currently cling to.
If you continue to lie about your identity I will have no choice but to post the information I have gathered from your computer to prove what I'm saying is true.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-01-09 11:31 ]
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All I know is that my little sister was sent there almost 2 yrs ago and that was the last time I saw her or heard from her. She's not getting my mail, as none of the small checks I sent her were cashed. I can't call her, they just hang up on me or pretend to take a message. The sad part is that my sister never did anything wrong, never once got in trouble, never suspended, arrested, never talks back, never even got a detention at school. She's being punished for being born, as her (our) crappy parents don't want her. The lack of contact is ridiculuous and cruel. How is that therapeutic?
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Please share your story on the threads in the HLA forum.
I'm sorry for your sister and you. Please post on the other threads where you can get some feedback, ok?
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On 2006-02-08 13:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"All I know is that my little sister was sent there almost 2 yrs ago and that was the last time I saw her or heard from her. She's not getting my mail, as none of the small checks I sent her were cashed. I can't call her, they just hang up on me or pretend to take a message. The sad part is that my sister never did anything wrong, never once got in trouble, never suspended, arrested, never talks back, never even got a detention at school. She's being punished for being born, as her (our) crappy parents don't want her. The lack of contact is ridiculuous and cruel. How is that therapeutic?"
On 2006-02-10 06:12:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2006-02-10 06:08:00, HLA Truth wrote:
"
On 2006-02-09 14:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-02-08 15:19:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"Posted: 2006-02-08 13:54:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All I know is that my little sister was sent there almost 2 yrs ago and that was the last time I saw her or heard from her. She's not getting my mail, as none of the small checks I sent her were cashed. I can't call her, they just hang up on me or pretend to take a message. The sad part is that my sister never did anything wrong, never once got in trouble, never suspended, arrested, never talks back, never even got a detention at school. She's being punished for being born, as her (our) crappy parents don't want her. The lack of contact is ridiculuous and cruel. How is that therapeutic?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I copied this from the HLA thread in the TTI forum.
This is absolutely fucking heartbreaking.
Truth, can you find out what's going on here and see why this kid can't talk to her sister? Maybe she can PM you?
"
What about this????"
Absolutely have her PM me. None of this sounds familiar, and it would surprise me if it were true, but I would be happy to look into it."
Thanks, Truth. I don't have direct contact, but I've solicited a response on another thread. Hopefully I'll get one and we can go from there.
"
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It brings me pause to hear of the plight and civil rights violations of the girl's sister that is at Hidden Lake. I can'thelp but wonder why on earth any parent with basic cognative skills would place their beloved child in an institution that is as awry as HL. Did the parents not know of HL's policies prior to placing her? It certainly would raise a red-flag for me, if I were aware the facility infringed on privacy rights and limited family contact.Therre is no "therapuetic" benefit to this at all. Quite the contrary - it is injurious. No ethical institution has such a policy.
Is HL reading sealed outgoing mail from students? That is a federal offense. I would levy a complaint with the postal service - Office of Inspector General. Simply report your sister is not getting her mail.(Recording dates,and putting rceipt verification on letters will establish proof of HL (but not her) received them.. The USPS could infiltrate and detect what's going on. Additionally, you can and should file a complaint with Child Protective Services. They are required by law to investigate (every) complaint, it is not discretionary. It's a must.
Question?: Is HL a "religious" organzation. If so, it may be exempt from licensure by the state(depending on the state).In most states this is the case.
I hope and pray for the safe outcome of this girl's unfortunate circumstances. Stay strong for her, keep fighting.
Friend-in-Spirit
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My Bro sends me mail, and I never get it!
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Now, I am actully attending in the program. I can tell you what is really going on. It is like hell on earth. I am constantly ?confronted? in therapy about sub-standard problems. The place is hell. I don?t have much time to write. I am in a supervised enviorment right now while writing this. Please parents, help your kid, listen to what he has to say. Don?t ship him off.
Thank you,
Anonymous
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You guys can sneak on at HLA?
:wave: Hope to hear from you! Ill help in any way I can.
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hello,
I was at HLA for a very long time. I won't say how long because that would let any HLA staff who read this, know who I am. I will remain anonymous. Anyway, I spent a long time there and I can tell you, The program is bullshit. Their website says that they encourage the students to growq in their spiritual faith, yet they do not allow all faiths to be practiced. Ironic yes? Also false advertising. Forced addiction therapy is not therapy. Being told that if you do not participate in one of the Addiction programs you will be placed on restrictions is blackmail. HLA is built on lies. There are some good people there, at least when i was there, and they don't deserve to be placed in the same group as the bastards. To the staff who were good to the students and who cared about us, I salute you. To the ass-holes who gave me shit and made our lives hell, I give you the one finger salute and my sincerest wishes for you to rot in hell. HLA is a horrible program in my opinion. If I had a choice, I would never send my children there, it would do to them what it did to me and I would never wish that on anyone, except the staff who worked there and were dicks. Anyway, I have to get back to my life and good luck to all current HLA students.
Tis better to die on one's feet, than to live on one's knees.
FUCK HLA.
Oh and this goes out to whoever is the person refered to as "Healed". I hope you die you lieing sack of shit. You were probobly a narc ass program bitch. Fuckin liar. If you don't work for the school that is. Either way, if you were a student I hope you get hit by a truck. If you are a staff who is posing as a student, I hope you get hit by a truck and then it backs over you again.
Not everyone here is Immature or angry, I'm just one of the exceptions. You are lower than dirt "Healed". Your a program bitch. I have seen stuff that would give you nightmares you fucking coward.
And to Suzzane or "SHH Anon Classics" whatever your name may be. I was at HLA after 2001, Am I qualified in your eyes to speak on my expirience or do i need a fucking certificate to tell you to either be honest of go fuck yourself. I wasted a lot of my lfie there and yeah, I'm pissed about it. Either be honest here or don't be here at all. And don't spy for HLA, Its called freedom of speech.
anonymous for good reasons.
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