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Messages - Paul St. John

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Elan School / The ring
« on: August 09, 2003, 04:32:00 PM »

Elan School / The ring
« on: August 09, 2003, 02:54:00 PM »
i pissed some people off, so anyway i know i went like at least five rounds, robin w, karen q, dawn m,maryjane h,and judy h i think,sandy n, i know i went rounds with a couple of them at least twice and when no more girls wanted to fight

LOL!!, Jackie, you fought all those chicks in one straight run?



Elan School / Daytop on Doctors
« on: August 08, 2003, 11:08:00 PM »
There was this one time, when everybody in the house was getting sick.  It was the same bug, and it was getting passed around to everybody.  I think that it may have started with this co-ordinator, Jen, who insisted on coming in while being sick, with what she belived to be bronchitis, and non-communicable( I suppose that the fact that nearly everyone in the house caught in, myself included, was a cooincidence).

It's only natural that we would all catch it, being packed like sardines into those morning, and afternoon meeting.  As a result of widespread illness throughout the house, there were more people absent in the house, then usual, and so a whole big thing went down, and blow aways were given, and speaches, etc., etc.

and a new rule was made that anyone out for even a single day, would now have to have a doctor's note..

.. so shortly after that, a girl was sick.. I can't remember who, but I do remember that she was one of the younger members, and so she was absent, and came in with a doctor's note.

She was questioneed by a counselor in front to the family( a female one whom I can't really remember)

The counselor was pushing to prove that the girl had actually been fine, and that her doctor had lied on the note, and was insinuating, that the poor girl manipulated him into doing it.

The gilr said something like " He's a doctor.  He wouldn't do that."

That was all the counselor needed.. That counselor.. that rogue rebel against reality, and peace, and happiness stood up there now giving a sermon againt doctors..
saying things along the lines of:

" What does a doctor care?  All doctors are evil.  He'll do anything you want, just to get more money form your parent's whom you also manipulate.."

" Maybe your doctor helps you manipulate your parents."

" You think a doctor cares what is true and what isn't"

" Doctors are dishonest"

lol.. and I think that she may have even said at one point that she thinks that the girl had contracts with her doctor

Ladies and gentelman.. There was no shred of evidence that any of this could've been the case.. This was a sick woman's imagination, BUT the kids didn.t notice that, and I hope that none of those guys or girls wanted to be doctors some day, because by the end of her srmon, she had every person in that place believing that doctors were evil..

As I listenned to this shit, tightly pressed inot my chair, motionless, military style( the approved way), I almost fell out of my seat.  Never before had I seen such hypocrisy as from the likes of this sick bitch, who traded in a drug addiction, for an addiction to cause problems wherever she could, in the name of sobriety.

don't care about the truth?

"Have you looked in the mirror lately, you life-hating cunt?"

Paul St. John

« on: July 27, 2003, 09:47:00 PM »

    Does anybopdy remember any of those concepts that were hanging on thw wall such as, " What goes around come around" ?


Elan School / Elan's effects on you
« on: July 27, 2003, 01:30:00 AM »
Effects are not only after the fact, but also inherent.

For example, when I had to talk to people that I disliked, that was an effect.

No longer being around people that I did like was also an effect.

Having to answer questions, that were not the business of others, was an effect.

Being forced to listen to people go on and on about unrealistic bullshit all day was an effect.

Not being able to spend the days of MY life doing what I wish was an effect.

Personally, I hated that program...mine was like Elan.. and I am still not a fan today..


Elan School / Why the White Rabbit was Always Late
« on: July 25, 2003, 01:55:00 AM »

That's the Spirit!  :grin:

Elan School / i wish
« on: July 25, 2003, 01:46:00 AM »

    It may help you to know that the self-destructiveness, is not actually a sign of your bad-ness, but of your good-ness.  When the people there destroted you, they took away no doubt a beautiful part of you , that felt good to have.

     See, you, like myself, and probably almost everybody else who goes to these joints, seperated yourself from the experience cause it hurt.  Yourself, keeps going back to destructiveness, cause that is the last place that it has seen it s lost parts, if you can follow.

It s like when a gilr gets say beaten and raped, and then constantly finds herself in abusive relationships, and may even find that a part of here enjoys the abuse.  She enjoys it because, she is communing with a lost part of herself, in the onley way that she can figure out to do it.

Also, in the relationship case, taht has to do with the fact that in these places, they teach you also to be blind to abuse.

I went in there sharp as a tack.. When I came ouit, I was more easilt decived.. Well, why the hell shouldn t I be?  It was a way of life for me for a long time.. I had to allow myself to be deciceved everyday afterall, within those wallas.


Elan School / i wish
« on: July 25, 2003, 01:36:00 AM »
On 2003-07-23 10:35:00, jackie wrote:

"ya your right, my self esteem, my behaviours, and my overall view of life were extremely altered by my "elan experiance". i was a pretty good kid that didnt have any structure before i went into elan,

That s all they need.. If that was your flaw, then that is whta they would work with.. Whatever one flaw that you had was their way in you.

 ya i had my share of problems and was smoking pot and drinking, but i never had ANY consequences whatsoever. Elan was my first consequence. I was 13 when i went in there, and simply a mixed up misdirected kid.

 When i left, i was a violent 17 year old woman, hell bent on self destruction because of feelings of worthlessness and not knowing how to cope with life.

When I left I was a 17 year old man, with a very similar experience. I was suddenly self-destructive, and knowinly so.. I kinda got high of of it in a way... and I was also more violent then I had ever been before( I was generally a pretty peaceful guy)  I had less control over my emotiuons then I had ever had, but it makes sense as one of the things that they teach you in there, albeit subliminally, is that emotions are primary to thought, and that you should more or less sacrificxe yourself to any minor emotin that you have, as though it is all important.

They can use your ego against you here, by challenging you .. They paint a picture that if you can sink into your emotions, then you are not facing them, and you are weak.  In actuality, the proper application of a person s mind, to be who they WISH to be, and not just the PRODUCT, of any random emotiuon that comes up is where real Strength is"

sometimes i feel like im still there,

LOL!! You are not the only one.. I never felt like I got out of there.. For years, afterward, it was as though, I built a world on the outside world, while still feeling like I was inside.  I ll be honest with ya; I was scared of those people.  If they can get away with this, what the hell else can they get away with?  These are the people who rule the world..  They don t contribute to it, but they seem to be able to get away with anything taht they wish.  Now, to me.. That is so me scary shit.. How much work would it take for assholes like that to convince a group of people that the literal death of another was in the best interest of society?  These are questions that I asked while in there.. but I do remember having some sort of sense that my mind was being affected by the program at the time, and that these fear weher not justified.

 the self worth issue is still at hand, i went through abusive relationship after relationship, my ex husband being the last one.

I ve had similar situations.. LOL!! For years after, I have found myself working at occupations, that are somehow reminicaint of old Daytop.

I know taht there are a few reasons for this.
Kinda like that U2 song, Stuck in a Mment"  

 i never learned the things that most kids being teenagers were learning. ok so, tell me, what was i suppose to learn there :question: im still totally messed up in the head and in therapy trying to figure things out, i still cant remember alot of my stay there,

< I > I hope to remember it all.  it s a big challenge, and I m scared hsit, but that s what I m going for.. At this point, I odn t yet remember much.

 but from what ive heard from people i wasnt a bad person i was just a screwed up kid, and at 37, i still am :flame: "

Again.... Best Wishes!


Elan School / Why the White Rabbit was Always Late
« on: July 23, 2003, 05:44:00 PM »
If he ever caught up enough to be in the moment, he might realise that as a giant, talking rabbit, he cannot exist.

The same was true in Daytop( Elan s predecessor).

Okay, so now each day, there were chores and work to do, to keep the place afloat, and as is only fair, we the people whose parent's pay for us to be there, had to do it for the people whop get payed to be there..LOL

I always realised mistakes in their work systems.  They often made things very hard, that could actually be simple.  And I m probably thinking at some point back then, "Hey, hey, I can be a contributor to the house"

Ya know.. take a little initiative, by pointing some of these things out and contributing to better systems.  Afterall, I mean if I benefit them, maybe they ll giove me a break, and I cxan survive in their without being an asshole..

To my suprise, they did not like better ideas.  They had many excuses why things should saty exactly as they are.

Time went by, and I observed more closely, and became extremely obviouse, they wanted to be behind.

They wanted to always be beyond, and just enough so, as to have a distraction form the present moment.

Had they been in the moment for a second, they would have realised that the best thing that they could have done for everyone involved would ve been to go home, and allow all the kids to do the same.

Sorry.. got distracted half-way through this post.
Lost my train of thought, but I think you can see hwta I m saying.


Elan School / i wish
« on: July 23, 2003, 05:32:00 PM »
On 2003-07-23 10:37:00, jackie wrote:

"oh ya and thanks paul, you have alot of insight and it really does help :smile: "


    Cool that it helped.  I figure that different perspectives on things may shift them a bit.

Best of luck, or whatever the better word would be,

Paul St. John

Elan School / Just a few things
« on: July 23, 2003, 05:27:00 PM »
On 2003-07-23 01:15:00, Anonymous wrote:

"well said.. "

Thanks!  :smile:

im also fairly sure that the elan , and daytop concepts were sound in theory

No big deal of course, but on this one small thing, I think that I must disagree with you.

Elan School / Just a few things
« on: July 23, 2003, 05:24:00 PM »
On 2003-07-23 10:27:00, jackie wrote:

or, you shouldnt try to make your parents feel guilty for something that is all your fault, you put yourself here, not them.

Holy Shit!!  LOL!!  I remember when they use to say that so that you didn t tell your parents shit. I forgot all about that..

What a bunch of manipulative fux.

That s like the type of shit that child molesters say and shit.

These guys are really too funny!  They make it SO fucking obviouse what they are doing..



Elan School / i wish
« on: July 23, 2003, 01:27:00 AM »
i know i damn sure didnt think much of myself there, especially being told what a piece of crap i was and how i didnt deserve anything and how i was such a bad person"

This is how they work their way in.  It really is like the theft of a soul.

What they do not tell you is that the people there are hungry.  They feed off in destroying in you, the same things that were destroted in them.

They are people who do not care anymore.  This is the only way that they can sustain their existence.

especially being told what a piece of crap

Now right here, they utilise an interesting phenomenon to completely fuck you up.  It is fact that if you are told something like this on a continuos basis, your subconscious will accept it as true, even if you consciously reject it.  If the mind keeps hearing it, it will begin to treat it as fact.

how i didnt deserve anything and how i was such a bad person

Self- Renunciation.  One of their most important techniques in battle is to get you to renounce yourself, so that you will no longer protect yourself.  They don t wanna fight you and win.  Rather, they wanna pit you up against yourself.

They don t wanna fight you win, cause more often then not, they can't.

You see the averge criminal is actually a better human being then they are.  A criminl may physically beat the shit out of you to steal your purse, or may hold a gun to your head.

They don t defeat you before they steal from you.  They let you do the dirty work for them, and then they steal from you.  They steal from you the inner light that they can no longer produce on their own.

Sly, fuckin weasels...

how i was such a bad person

Guilt is one of the greatest controlling factors used throughout history, and it works best on Christains.
Not tomention sacrifice..

Elan, is actually a spin- off of Daytop, which was put together by a Catholic priest.

Paul St. John

Elan School / Just a few things
« on: July 23, 2003, 12:32:00 AM »
=By ALL definitions, it is a cult and operates with the exact paradigm.

= They do not and literally cannot work.

= They are literally not designed to work.

= They serve one god, and that God is death.

= How well, you do there is dependent merely upon how strong of a person you are... not how well you use the program.

= It is a business, but more then that it is a business for people who profit off of death and suicide.

= AND MOST OF IMPORTANTLY, all of the above statements are entirely true.

Elan, or in my case Elan s cousin, Daytop = WRONG, BAD

That's a fact.

LOL!! Just for the fun of it, let s say that I said this there... what would happen next?

They d start to dissect me, and show, how I am projecting, and this is my issue.

Here s a very important identification.


For example, if they say ten things that are complete bullshit, and I prove it, but they find one simple mistake in my logic, then that means, that I am wrong, and the program has persevered again.

This is because they set up the illusion that you are on trial in the first place, which ain t that hard, as most people will at leats feel a little guilty, about being sent to such a place in the first place.


Elan School / What They Didn \'t Tell Me When I Signed That Contract
« on: July 23, 2003, 12:18:00 AM »
.. that I basically didn not exist in their eyes, and it was their goal that I not exist in my own

.. that while most psychologies of today are used to free a person from a stimulus-respose orientation, their techniques were based on utilsing it, to " recreate " you

.. my thoughts were irrelevant, but anybody and everybody's feelings were of the utmost importance

.. that most of the kids who went in there as light users, left and became hardcore drug addicts

.. that my efforts would be used to benefit a " family" that did not even respect my rights as a human being

.. that showing your feathers around this place was based on how loud you could scream at another, and to what extent you can disgrace them

.. that the counselors take pleasure in witnessing this blood bath

.. that my strengths would be considerred weaknesses

.. that upon enterring that building as a member, I automatically earn the title of " dope fein"

.. that I would have to take orders from idiots half my age, who knew little about anything, but how to kiss ass

.. that a few months down the line, I' d actually be use to

..  that I would have to spend a whole half of a day cleaning up under a stair case where, that a cat was allowed to use as a litter box, without end for months, on my kness, with no gloves, and the outdated cleaning supplies, while better ones were in fact available.. ( that was a bad GI day)
and then spend the rest of the day walkingta round smelling like piss

.. that right or worng, I was always wrong

.. that logic was irrelevant, and that the purpose of work their was only to make more work

.. that they ask people to bask in their problems as, though all they are is their problems

.. that they were murderers.

I repeat "murders!!!!"

and of children, never the less

Well, I could go on for days.

One of the problems in my views was that noone s got balls in this society, or not enough people anyway.

Any parent who got inside that program had to see how fucked up it was, but everybody always gives into athority.

In the name of that shit hole where I wasted half a year of my life, I reaffirm in myself " Bless the Individual!"

Paul St. John

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