Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anne Bonney on September 12, 2007, 09:29:31 PM
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http://www.bradenton.com/opinion/story/138775.html (http://www.bradenton.com/opinion/story/138775.html)
Green hair lesson
School is for learning, not self-expression
Manatee High student Sarah Miller has green hair . BRIAN BLANCO/[email protected]
BRIAN BLANCO/[email protected]
Manatee High student Sarah Miller has green hair . BRIAN BLANCO/[email protected]
Readers of a certain age reading the Bradenton Herald's coverage of a flap at Manatee High over green hair may recall the 1948 movie, "The Boy With Green Hair." In that film, a boy of about 8 or 10 named Peter wakes up one morning to find that his hair has turned green. Picked on by the other kids and shunned by his elders who try unsuccessfully to wash the color out, Peter ultimately has his head shaved, then is hounded out of town into a nearby forest, where he discovers what his green hair means and why he has it.
The movie was a powerful social commentary about war and its victims, especially children orphaned by it, of which Peter was one.
Today green hair has an entirely different meaning - and, like beauty, what that meaning is can be interpreted by the viewer. Senior Sarah Miller says green hair is a form of self-expression, a way to "express my individuality." No rebellious punk hellion, Sarah is taking four advanced-placement and honors classes, plays varsity softball and is considered a good daughter by her parents.
First-year MHS Principal Bob Gagnon considers Sarah's green hair a distraction and told her on the first day of school it was a violation of the school dress code. Sarah and her family are puzzled by the ruling, as in the past she has gone to school with blue hair, red hair with crimson streaks and a spiked yellow Mohawk with leopard spots. No one told her through those three years there was anything wrong with wildly colored hair, she says.
Principal Gagnon says, in effect, that was then; this is now. The school dress code, while not specifically addressing hair color, gives him the discretion to decide whether a student's clothing or appearance "creates a climate that is distracting to learning."
And green hair, he rules, does. "We want (the school environment) to be free from distractions and disruptions," he said. "We want to enforce the rules as they are written. . . . Natural hair color was a rule at Manatee High School."
While we as paid opinionists are all for free expression, especially of political views, we recognize legitimate limits on that constitutional right. Yelling fire in a crowded theater is the most basic example. Committing libel - printing lies about a person - is another. And another is a principal trying to foster a safe, orderly learning environment.
While we may not agree that green hair disrupts achievement of that goal, the principal does. And he is the boss of Manatee High. That should be enough to convince kids not to dye their hair other shades than blond, brunette or red. Fair or unfair, bosses get to make the rules, and all under their supervision can either comply or leave. Sarah and her classmates will discover that soon enough in the workplace, where dress codes and personal appearance standards abound.
Indeed, as more than one former teacher has opined about this issue, high school is a good place to learn about rules, discipline and surrender of individual will to achieve a greater goal than fulfillment of one's self-expression. As a 30-year veteran of the classroom wrote, "In the real world each day at work may not be 'fun.' There are lessons to be taught that may not be 'fun.' There are tests and evaluations that are not 'fun.' "
Many believe that the decline of education began with the free-expression revolution of the 1960s. Anything-goes clothing and hairstyles led to wider challenges of rules. Before long, classroom discipline broke down.
Indeed, strict dress codes such as the one enforced at MHS are a reaction to the permissive environment that prevailed in education for too long. It is an attempt to refocus on the essential purpose of going to school: Education. It is not to socialize with friends, to show off the latest fashions or to win a popularity competition. Learning - preparing for adulthood - is why children are in school, and the sooner they realize that, the better.
As the old movie proved, green hair can be a powerful symbol and can have many meanings. But mastering geometry or biology isn't one of them.
Do you agree that hair dyed unnatural colors should be banned from local high schools? Share your view in the Opinion section of Bradenton.com.
http://www.local6.com/news/14099857/detail.html (http://www.local6.com/news/14099857/detail.html)
70 Students Suspended Protesting Shirt-Tucking Rule
POSTED: 3:38 pm EDT September 12, 2007
UPDATED: 3:55 pm EDT September 12, 2007
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About 70 students at Rogers High School in Tulsa are being suspended after they protested a new requirement that they tuck in their shirts.
Officials said the students are being suspended for five days for breaking a rule that prohibits "encouraging other students to violate school rules or regulations."
Tulsa Public Schools spokeswoman Tami Marler said the protesters were distracting students who were in class and were trying to attract students between classes.
The shirt-tucking rule was instituted by Superintendent Michael Zolkoski after he visited the campus on the first day of school.
"Someone who wore a shirt that was too long, they hid a weapon in it and now everyone one else in the Tulsa public school system has to suffer," a student said. "I don't think that that's right."
Marler said the protesting students spent nearly five hours across the street from the school and the school was locked down at the recommendation of police.
Watch Local 6 News for more on this story.
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Unbelievable. Green hair is a distraction to the other students? How about a kid who is incredibly attractive, or unattractive, or really fat or really skinny, or one of the few with his or her ethnic background? FFS, every individual is different, and some are going to stand out in a crowd no matter what kind of rules are imposed on them.
If another student is distracted, leave it up to him to decide that and to find a solution. There were some girls in high school that distracted the hell out of me, but no way would I have ever complained or let it derail my education. Can you imagine? "Hey teacher, I'm having a really hard time" (pun intended) "concentrating in this class because Jill over here is wearing tight jeans and she has an ass to die for." It would've been a lot less distracting if she just had green hair, but that's my problem, not hers and not the school's.
Green hair rules!
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This sounds similiar to the Halloween story last year where two elementary aged school girls were sent home for coloring their hair for halloween. Needless to say, the parents were pissed off, and it received quite a bit of media coverage.
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Yeah, I know. I throw 'em up here when I see them. It happens all the damn time and it IS a part of the TTI picture. Parents are so fucking FREAKED OUT about shit they shouldn't be and programs just play on all of it.
Pisses me off.
:flame:
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One of my daughters was kicked out/removed by me from two different private schools a few years back. All because she had dyed her hair BLACK, etc.
When I was called up to the first school, I purposedly wore total black to the meeting. The second school told me that I didn't have to take off work to pick her up.... now WHY if my kid was sooooo bad they wanted her gone from their school, why could she stay the entire day?
Doesn't matter what the situation is, if you are a little bit different, the mainstream of life wants you to not exist. What happened to individualism???
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Some rules are ridiculous. Personally I think it shouldnt matter about the color of ones hair or the length of it or lack of it. I went to a private school for high school and hair was addressed in our dress code, BUT, it was a private school. We had a choice to go there or not. I think in public schools they shouldnt have any kinds of rules like that. I also know its teen nature to go against whatever rule there is. So the more rules you make, the more they will break them. We used to purposely roll up our uniform skirts so they would be shorter than required, wear unapproved colors of socks, unapproved styles of shoes, and wrong color sweaters. My male friends would purposely loosen their ties, wear their hair longer than required, wear earrings, and facial hair all on purpose just to buck the establishment. They didnt enforce our dress code too strictly because there were more of us than them and all of us were doing it. Once we got in college, however, none of us did anything like that because, guess what? there were no dress code rules. We did it for the sole purpose of not conforming. I wouldnt personally have green hair, but if she wanted to, she should have been allowed to have it.
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Most private schools here ban "non natural" colours. The argument is that students know of this when they enrol and can choose to go somehwere with more liberal rules if they so desire. it means a lot of Private school kids do all of this sort of thing during the summer holidays or get bellybutton rings bercause they are not visible.
It surprises me that a public school can get away with this as the whole point of public school is that it is there to educate the huddled masses and thus cant discriminate on things like hair colour. I wonder what would happen if all the kids turned up with green hair?
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Get this....
Twenty one year old college student went to a party after work. Had a few drinks. Instead of driving, he did the responsible thing..... and walked the four blocks home.
His reward?
Cop stopped him. Told him he had 10 minutes to find a ride, which didn't happen at 3am, and took him to jail for PI. :rofl:
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Schools force you to go to multi cultural social experiments, they bus in to make schools 1/3 white 1/3 latino and 1/3 black even though the families choose to segregate themselves in neighborhoods they force the kids together. Of course this creates conflicts and so you need a weapon for protection but if caught you are expelled. If they made schools safe in the first place and didn't force you to go you wouldn't need a weapon. The school officials are very thick if they can't realize this. They are the ones making schools violent with their policies. Kids are just reacting and protecting themselves like normal humans tend to do when in danger.
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Alright, here's a case of the school district taking the law into their own hands, yet again...you'd think they thought they were the DMV or IRS.
Wednesday, my daughter calls me from her cell phone, she's hiding in the bathroom to make the call or her cell will be taken away, and she informs me that the VP of the school was standing in front of the liquor store and donut shop blocking students from getting in at 10 to 8a.m.. The police were also there, and informed Ms. VP that this was not legal. Needless to say, she ignored the officer, and would not let my daughter into the donut store to get her morning donut.
I phoned the school where I was informed that this was new policy. That the kids had to be off this "public" piece of property prior to 10 minutes to 8, and start walking to the school, which, by the way, is about 1000 yards away. It doesn't take 10 freakin' minutes to walk 1000 yards. If she chose to violate this new rule, she would be suspended. Can you believe this shit?
Arguing with this school isn't worth it, because in the end, their always right. What a bunch of horseshit!
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Oh yah, this is the same district that last year tried to tell parents the school had legal authority over their kids one hour before and after school. Yah...that met with lots of approval, not!
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Pull your kid out of that school now- seriously, it's NOT SAFE for her academic career- and start talking to lawyers.
I can't believe the cops didn't arrest the VP.
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Alright, here's a case of the school district taking the law into their own hands, yet again...you'd think they thought they were the DMV or IRS.
Wednesday, my daughter calls me from her cell phone, she's hiding in the bathroom to make the call or her cell will be taken away, and she informs me that the VP of the school was standing in front of the liquor store and donut shop blocking students from getting in at 10 to 8a.m.. The police were also there, and informed Ms. VP that this was not legal. Needless to say, she ignored the officer, and would not let my daughter into the donut store to get her morning donut.
I phoned the school where I was informed that this was new policy. That the kids had to be off this "public" piece of property prior to 10 minutes to 8, and start walking to the school, which, by the way, is about 1000 yards away. It doesn't take 10 freakin' minutes to walk 1000 yards. If she chose to violate this new rule, she would be suspended. Can you believe this shit?
Arguing with this school isn't worth it, because in the end, their always right. What a bunch of horseshit!
Ya know what's ironic... WE pay their salaries.... to oppress our kids. They've forgotten who butters their bread. Parents have allowed this to happen. Most are afraid to buck the system. So... the status quo will continue.
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Have you contacted your local papers? This is newsworthy.
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Seriously newsworthy.
The school has no legal responsibility or authority over your child when he/she is off school property outside of normal school hours. If this school official thinks otherwise, I'd be curious what law she thinks gives her that authority and how far, geographically speaking, she thinks that authority extends. Does she think she could stand at the end of your driveway before school and tell your child when it's time to get going or you'lll be late for school?!!!
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Bollocks!
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The schools are normally responsible for the kid when they are moving to school from home and from school to home. So maybe they are using that as their excuse or it could be the old 1000 feet from a school rule that is in force.
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The schools are normally responsible for the kid when they are moving to school from home and from school to home. So maybe they are using that as their excuse or it could be the old 1000 feet from a school rule that is in force.
That would only apply if the child/children are being transported on county school buses. I know that that children who are considered "walkers" are on their own once they leave school.
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The schools are normally responsible for the kid when they are moving to school from home and from school to home. So maybe they are using that as their excuse or it could be the old 1000 feet from a school rule that is in force.
Like someone mentioned earlier, maybe another thread, the kids are just going to adapt. They will move to 1,001 feet or find another donut shop further away, which will make them even more late for school.
Our Principle in our highschool use to remind us (at least once a week) that there was no smoking behind the “Yum, Yum Treeâ€
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If the school claims responsibility an hour before and after school, and a kid gets hurt in that timeframe, I wonder how quickly they'll change their tune when the school gets sued for negligence? After all, they're responsible right?
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Maybe NYRA is doing something about bringing back off campus lunches.
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http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.d ... /709140350 (http://www.floridatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070914/NEWS01/709140350)
Students challenge ban on Gothic
School board policy prohibits such clothing
BY MEGAN DOWNS
FLORIDA TODAY
Back in black. A group of Rockledge High students wants the right to dress in their Gothic clothing at school. But school board policy specifically prohibits the attire and accessories.
Fifteen-year-old Amaris Mulhauser prepared for school Thursday morning using a thick-black eyeliner to draw tear streaks dripping down her cheeks.
A few hours later, she was pulled out of her Rockledge High English class and told to go home -- the second time this week -- for wearing the Gothic makeup that administrators had warned her to remove.
Amaris is one of about 30 students trying to change the district's dress code policy, which they believe is outdated and curtails their freedom of expression. The students went before the school board this week to argue their case.
Federal courts have been debating student speech and expression rights for years as school officials around the country struggle to balance the expectation of a safe learning environment with students' rights.
Brevard Public Schools' dress code policy specifically prohibits Gothic-style clothing or accessories, citing that such gear is tied to "violent or death oriented themes."
The debate over what students can wear even extends to the more demure khaki-and-polo garb now required in more public schools in Brevard. At least one parent is challenging the new uniform policy at Riverview Elementary in Titusville.
After listening to the appeal from the Goth students, school board member Larry Hughes said Thursday he would ask for clarification on the dress code as the board reviews all policies during the next few months.
"They seem like a good group of kids," Hughes said. "Clearly, their dress is a little bit different. But if you were to discount some of the things they are wearing that are not allowed, like piercings and wild makeup, then I really don't have a problem with wearing dark clothing. There might be some wiggle room in our policy to accommodate them."
Amaris -- a soft-spoken sophomore who said she'd never been suspended and had never received a grade lower than a C -- argues she has a right to her style of dress. She said her clothing is part of her Wiccan religion, a neo-pagan, Earth-centered faith.
"I get pulled out of classes, stopped in the hallways, all because they say our makeup is a distraction," Amaris, who signs the "A" in her name with the anarchy symbol, told the Brevard County School Board. "I think basically it is a ploy against people who are different. I am very tired of the unfair treatment that we've been given."
Rockledge High Principal Anthony Hines said Amaris wasn't suspended because of her Wiccan or Gothic associations, but because of her extreme makeup and lip ring, which school district policy deems a safety hazard.
"We had already asked her to comply and told her what the consequences are," Hines said. "We don't make the policy, but we are bound by our jobs to enforce the policy."
A crackdown on teen Goths nationwide followed the 1999 Columbine massacre in which two Colorado teens wearing trench coats and black clothing killed 12 and wounded 24 of their classmates, said Gordon Crews, a professor at Washburn University in Topeka, Kan., who specializes in Gothic subculture studies and criminal justice.
"There's so much misperception and miscommunication that it leads to hysteria," he said. "Just because kids are wearing black or a facial piercing, we automatically attach that to disruptive behavior when most the time these kids are well behaved."
No other style subgroup, such as hip hop, skater or preppy, is specifically listed in the Brevard Public Schools policy.
The district entered the word "Gothic" into the dress code in reaction to the Columbine incident, Area Superintendent Tom McIntyre said.
"Like it or not, Columbine did change cultures at school, just as 9-11 changed our country regarding terrorism," McIntyre said. "Our schools look at these kinds of things much more seriously because we have seen what the end results can be. The expectation of the administration is to maintain a safe and orderly environment."
Rockledge High junior Dustin Morley, who doesn't call himself Goth and normally wears jeans and T-shirts to school, said Gothic wear doesn't disrupt learning, and he's tired of the continual criticism.
"Nobody is going to be disrupted because they are gawking at somebody's eye makeup or lip ring. That does not happen."
Contact Downs at 242-3549 or [email protected].
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Fact: they're not there to 'express, demonstrate or exercise' anything but their minds and educations.
Uniforms and no makeup, funky hair anything, or driving to or from school.
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No diversity, no individuality, no flexibility of any kind. No self expression. Conformity will bring you peace. Big Brother loves you.
::puke::
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Fact: they're not there to 'express, demonstrate or exercise' anything but their minds and educations.
Uniforms and no makeup, funky hair anything, or driving to or from school.
What Program is your child in? ::bangin::
He's not anymore.
He was in the SpecialEd-blender, courtesy of the State.
Take away all those distractions... :wave:
I said: "in school". There's plenty of time out of school. Not to mention after graduation to pierce your stuff and have green hair (no offense to anyone ::luck:: ).
Why's everybody in such a big hurry to 'grow up'?
PS I can be a real big blockhead sometimes, absolutely. Doesn't make me wrong, automatically, all the time, does it?
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There's plenty of time out of school. Not to mention after graduation to pierce your stuff and have green hair (no offense to anyone ::luck:: ).
Why's everybody in such a big hurry to 'grow up'?
So the message to your child is what? Conform to all expectations of authority in your appearance, thoughts and deeds when you're at school, but it's ok to be a nonconformist between 3 pm and 7:30 am? And wait until after graduation, until you're an adult, to engage in any youthful indiscretions or creative expression?
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I said: "in school". There's plenty of time out of school. Not to mention after graduation to pierce your stuff and have green hair (no offense to anyone ::luck:: ).
Why's everybody in such a big hurry to 'grow up'?
PS I can be a real big blockhead sometimes, absolutely. Doesn't make me wrong, automatically, all the time, does it?
Adults don't usually have the luxury of walking around with weird clothes and green hair. That's the beauty of being a kid.
No offense taken, btw.
:)
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there IS a happy medium here...
gimme a moment, k?
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Toy gun brings big charges
By Matt Aiken
The gun may have been fake but the charges leveled against a Lumpkin County Middle School student Friday are very real.
Last week a 14-year-old was charged with possession of a weapon on school grounds and disruption of a public school after he allegedly showed up to class with a plastic pellet gun.
Plastic pellet gun = weapon?
"It wasn't a gun. It was a look-a-like," said Superintendent Dewey Moye. "But it's still treated as such."
Not a gun, but treated as such. Ah, that makes sense. And the law allows this? :rofl:
Though the tip of the gun barrel was painted orange, Capt. Jason Stover of the Lumpkin County Sheriff's Office said the toy looked authentic from a distance.
"He had the gun in his binder," said Stover. "He was playing around with it, showing it to people, pulling it out and putting it away and racking it."
Yep. Probably got it for his birthday and wanted to show it off. Now, he has a criminal record for bringing a toy to school. Did it even have pellets in it?
A middle school teacher spotted the pellet gun and pulled the student to the side.
He was then charged and taken to a regional youth detention center.
He remained at the facility until Monday morning.
Now the student not only faces legal charges but is also due to report at a school disciplinary tribunal where he could be suspended or expelled.
"These situations obviously won't be tolerated," said Moye. "And they will be dealt with in a very quick manner."
As opposed to what... a slow manner? Idiots.
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It was justified in my opinion. No one should bring a weapon to school, guns, hand granades,home made road side bombs, pipe bombs, doesnt matter. There is no way anyone can tell whether it was loaded or not or if it was a real threat..... its not like the kid was in 4th or 5th grade (playing cops and robbers), this kid is 14 years old and could have been shot or worse.
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It was justified in my opinion. No one should bring a weapon to school, guns, hand granades,home made road side bombs, pipe bombs, doesnt matter. There is no way anyone can tell whether it was loaded or not or if it was a real threat..... its not like the kid was in 4th or 5th grade (playing cops and robbers), this kid is 14 years old and could have been shot or worse.
You forfeited your right to talk about rules when you became a convicted sex offender you pervert
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I read that article in the Nugget as well, and had mixed feelings about it. True, the gun wasn't real, but, what if someone thought it was and it scared them? I don't know specifically the policy here in NC about fake guns in school, but I do know bank laws regarding fake guns and robberies. In the commission of a robbery at a bank, if someone brandishes a fake gun at you, whether it be a toy gun, plastic gun, lighter gun, or pellet gun that looks like a real bullet gun, the perpetrator is still charged with a weapons charge because he led the victims to believe it was real and the fear was real. It is possible that school systems have this same policy, that a fake gun is treated as a real one. Now, that being said, I think that this young man who was showing off his gun at LCMS shouldnt be charged with a weapons charge necesarrily. Was it wrong to bring that to school? Probably. Is it serious? Probably not.
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I can also see why the kid with the fake gun got into trouble but it was Not a matter for the police. Whatever happened to being hauled off to the headmaster for detention and a good talking to.
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Fact: they're not there to 'express, demonstrate or exercise' anything but their minds and educations.
Uniforms and no makeup, funky hair anything, or driving to or from school.
What Program is your child in? ::bangin::
He's not anymore.
He was in the SpecialEd-blender, courtesy of the State.
Take away all those distractions... :wave:
I said: "in school". There's plenty of time out of school. Not to mention after graduation to pierce your stuff and have green hair (no offense to anyone ::luck:: ).
Why's everybody in such a big hurry to 'grow up'?
PS I can be a real big blockhead sometimes, absolutely. Doesn't make me wrong, automatically, all the time, does it?
I disagree totally....
That story was not about disruptions and to be honest most rules regarding dress and style aren't. Kids do have rights in school(with judicial precedent to back them up) that officials can't tamper with. This rule as stated in the policy is specifically discriminatory towards a subgroup without justification. It would be like banning hair weave citing the fact that it's featured in rap videos that feature alcohol and sex, thus posing a distraction to the learning environment or promoting underage drinking.
Sure schools can restrict dress, however they can't discriminate against a group of students. I've said before that the law is not about right and wrong, it only exists to justify it's self. So they could accomplish the same thing if they word the policy differently, it would still be wrong but it would also be more legal(Kids could still challenge it, depending on how it's worded) then it is now.
A good civil rights attorney could rip this school a new one.
Also kids must learn to assert their rights if they are to be valuable citizens, attempting to keep their rights neutered until they graduate will guarantee a dumb adult generation unable to think for it's self. If kids knew what their rights were dumb rules like the one in that story would be challenged more often. 18 is not some magic number where everything suddenly makes sense. We are the sum of our experiences and if 18 is the age we are considered to be adults we need more then "do as I say" before we get to that bs benchmark...
::soapbox::
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I can also see why the kid with the fake gun got into trouble but it was Not a matter for the police. Whatever happened to being hauled off to the headmaster for detention and a good talking to.
+1
Headmaster?
But yeah, this is a 14 year old kid. We are trying to prepare them for the real world not make little examples out of them. Sure this was a serious problem but not one that called for legal action. The gun could have been real, but it wasn't. That's like finding a decapitated Barbi doll buried in some kids toy box and charging them with murder, not a fair analogy but still. Getting a kid involved with the legal system is a major predictor of future crime, i.e. don't do it unless it is really necessary.
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I can also see why the kid with the fake gun got into trouble but it was Not a matter for the police. Whatever happened to being hauled off to the headmaster for detention and a good talking to.
With all the drama, over-reacting, unreasonable punishment, humiliation, this could be the kid who flips. Gets so angry and/or hopeless that he comes back next time with the real thing.
Zero tolerance can turn an otherwise good kid into a criminal. Kids live up to the trips that are laid on them. If you expect the worse, that's likely what you'll get. Once they've been 'tagged', there's a reputation to live up to. Institutions are not adequate substitutes for parents. It's like kids have up to 5 or 6 different 'parents' with authority over them, that have varied and conflicting values and rules. No consistency. Crazy making.
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Zero tolerance can turn an otherwise good kid into a criminal. Kids live up to the trips that are laid on them. If you expect the worse, that's likely what you'll get.
Maybe that's the whole point of Zero Tolerance -- to identify the kids who just might have anti-social tendencies -- based on one or two minor mistakes -- and cast them aside right away before anything really bad can happen. It's an extension of the one bad apple spoils the whole bunch threory -- with the added twist of throwing out suspected bad apples before they actually go bad.
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Zero tolerance can turn an otherwise good kid into a criminal. Kids live up to the trips that are laid on them. If you expect the worse, that's likely what you'll get.
Maybe that's the whole point of Zero Tolerance -- to identify the kids who just might have anti-social tendencies -- based on one or two minor mistakes -- and cast them aside right away before anything really bad can happen. It's an extension of the one bad apple spoils the whole bunch threory -- with the added twist of throwing out suspected bad apples before they actually go bad.
Although I do see what you are saying, it sounds a little like “Minority reportâ€
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No, the message they need to get is that they obviously can't trust the school system to do anything remotely sane. (biiiig hint: orange tip = fake gun - this is actually something that the police started)
And the message YOU need to get is to GTFO.
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No, the message they need to get is that they obviously can't trust the school system to do anything remotely sane. (biiiig hint: orange tip = fake gun - this is actually something that the police started)
And the message YOU need to get is to GTFO.
I need to differ on this one. I am far from a fan of the school system, but they are under tremendous pressure from state and federal government to close the gap. (this is what oversight and regulation does so pay attention). This are the people that many here at fornits want to have oversee the TBS’s…but anyway, that’s a different argument.
When it comes to guns in the schools, airports, banks it doesn’t matter if you are muslim, white, black, teenager or pregnant you are putting yourself at risk. The kid is 14 and knows better, take it out into the woods like everyone else, don’t be an ass and flash it around in school…… if we let him carry it around then everyone will carry a pellet gun and then it will be that much easier to get a real gun past security…
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Zero tolerance can turn an otherwise good kid into a criminal. Kids live up to the trips that are laid on them. If you expect the worse, that's likely what you'll get.
Maybe that's the whole point of Zero Tolerance -- to identify the kids who just might have anti-social tendencies -- based on one or two minor mistakes -- and cast them aside right away before anything really bad can happen. It's an extension of the one bad apple spoils the whole bunch threory -- with the added twist of throwing out suspected bad apples before they actually go bad.
Although I do see what you are saying, it sounds a little like “Minority reportâ€
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The who himself admitted to being a child molester after somebody posted his listing on the sexual offenders registry. His exact words were "i have paid my debt to society" He then deleted it. I am hoping somebody will repost this.
Dont debate this piece of shit. Dont even acknowledge his existence. He is nothing. He has no merit or right to be heard
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The who himself admitted to being a child molester after somebody posted his listing on the sexual offenders registry. His exact words were "i have paid my debt to society" He then deleted it. I am hoping somebody will repost this.
Dont debate this piece of shit. Dont even acknowledge his existence. He is nothing. He has no merit or right to be heard
I get it but he's no child molester, an ass hole maybe...
If the who gets off topic I just ignore that part of his post, other then that he has every right to be heard as I do. I think most of what he says is bullshit but....
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it seems that there is a common sense link missing in this particular case. I think Deborah is right this only makes slightly naughty kids more likely to become crims.
There was a similar case here but the boys actually took real guns to a school camp. Because gun ownership is extremely tightly regulated here what they were doing was very illegal. Most city folk find the idea of anyone owning a gun alarming and frightening. It is extremely rare for a kid to bring a gun to school here and always has been.
The boys knew this was illegal but it was a rough country town where one of the main hobbies of the local lads is to get pissed and rabbit shoot. The boys got a suspension from school and when the cops investigated they came to the conclusion it was youthful tomfoolery and nothing more. Except for the bemusement of most and a few outraged parents it all died down. Because of commonsense from the local cops and the school these kids can go on to live normal lives.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/ ... 61,00.html (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21891558-661,00.html)
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Dahlonega is a semi-rural town, but its not a rough country town. Hunting is definately a hobby for some, but its downright suburban lately. Its less than 70 miles from Atlanta, has a college, and an Army training base. It is also a tourist destination. While I agree it has its share of rednecks, alot are not. That being said, quite a few teenagers in the state of Georgia in general do posess guns for target games and hunting, however, so does every teenager in the state of Michigan that I knew, the state of Texas that I knew, and quite a few kids here in NC. I remember in my high school in Ga kids had hunting rifles in the racks of their trucks and pocket knives in their pockets and nobody said a word. Times have definately changed.
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I misread your post Oz girl, sorry. thats what I get for readin too fast at 6 am without coffee ...you were referencing a town there, not the boy in Georgia here. my mistake. disregard that part of above post.
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I can agree to a certain extent and maybe if the child was caught coming into school or on the bus they could have taken him home and just had a talk with his parents. But since he was in full view of the rest of the student body the other kids had to see how serious it is to bring guns to school and the possible consequences. If the child was given just a slap on the hand it would send a message that it was okay to start bringing weapons to school, or at least no worse than chewing gum.
The school system is under tremendous pressure to not only teach the kids but to baby sit these kids, be the first line of defense against pregnancies and std’s via sex ed., insure no one has peanuts in their backpacks because of peanut allergies and now to check for weapons and possible psychological disorders. Its just too much, the teachers don’t have the training to deal with all of these facets effectively……. If a kid has a gun, he gets removed from class and you call the cops, blue tip, orange tip shouldn’t make a difference, couldn’t someone take a real gun and just paint the tip orange to indicate it is a pellet gun, I don’t think they should have to make that call.
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I misread your post Oz girl, sorry. thats what I get for readin too fast at 6 am without coffee ...you were referencing a town there, not the boy in Georgia here. my mistake. disregard that part of above post.
no worries. Though you raise something interesting. Given that Oz does not have much of a gun culture and is pretty down on guns generally, and the US views guns as a right, it seems far more likely that a country kid may genuinely own a gun for innocent purposes in the US. With this in mind it seems hypocritical to arrest them for what is a constitutional right.
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I misread your post Oz girl, sorry. thats what I get for readin too fast at 6 am without coffee ...you were referencing a town there, not the boy in Georgia here. my mistake. disregard that part of above post.
no worries. Though you raise something interesting. Given that Oz does not have much of a gun culture and is pretty down on guns generally, and the US views guns as a right, it seems far more likely that a country kid may genuinely own a gun for innocent purposes in the US. With this in mind it seems hypocritical to arrest them for what is a constitutional right.
Oz Girl
We have many rights in this country, but they set up laws to restrict them in many cases….sometimes for the good sometimes not. We encourage kids to go to school and they are allowed to have pellet guns, but they are not allowed to combine the two…the same way as we are encouraged to drive and we are allowed to drink alcohol but it is against the law to combine the two.
This doesn’t really constitute hypocrisy, in my mind, just a sign of the times. If the kid wasn’t dealt with swiftly and someone was hurt, the national spotlight would be on that school in a heart beat wondering why they tolerated it, principle would have lost his/her job as well as the teacher and the school district would have been sued and won easily.
If it wasn’t for columbine and some of the other incidences in which children were hurt and killed within the school grounds we would have never heard of this incident, but it has been a major focus in this country and we all created this culture.
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Hysteria doesn't make the school's or the state's actions right in this case. Over reaction is just as bad as no reaction, the whole problem with zeroT in a nut shell. The question is simple does a 14 year old deserve a felony(?) on his record for making a kid mistake?
No
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No, I don’t think they need to create hysteria or handcuff the kid and slam him on the floor (don’t know if that happened or not) or anything like that……… I don’t know about the details of what happened or what the kids history was, so I cant comment on that…I do think the police should have been called and the child removed from the premises. Maybe brought home, got his parents out of work etc…..a felony, maybe not, I don’t know the local laws there.
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Hysteria doesn't make the school's or the state's actions right in this case. Over reaction is just as bad as no reaction, the whole problem with zeroT in a nut shell. The question is simple does a 14 year old deserve a felony(?) on his record for making a kid mistake?
No
No, he doesn't. This shit is so indicative of part of what leads parents to look for TBSs/RTCs. Its ridiculous. Nanny state, helicopter parents, fear mongering, puritanical bullshit.
http://tinyurl.com/3ywfet (http://tinyurl.com/3ywfet)
Cities cracking down on saggy pants
By MATTHEW VERRINDER, Associated Press Writer Sun Sep 16, 2:35 PM ET
TRENTON, N.J. - It's a fashion that started in prison, and now the saggy pants craze has come full circle — low-slung street strutting in some cities may soon mean run-ins with the law, including a stint in jail.
Proposals to ban saggy pants are starting to ride up in several places. At the extreme end, wearing pants low enough to show boxers or bare buttocks in one small Louisiana town means six months in jail and a $500 fine. A crackdown also is being pushed in Atlanta. And in Trenton, getting caught with your pants down may soon result in not only a fine, but a city worker assessing where your life is headed.
"Are they employed? Do they have a high school diploma? It's a wonderful way to redirect at that point," said Trenton Councilwoman Annette Lartigue, who is drafting a law to outlaw saggy pants. "The message is clear: We don't want to see your backside."
The bare-your-britches fashion is believed to have started in prisons, where inmates aren't given belts with their baggy uniform pants to prevent hangings and beatings. By the late 80s, the trend had made it to gangster rap videos, then went on to skateboarders in the suburbs and high school hallways.
"For young people, it's a form of rebellion and identity," Adrian "Easy A.D." Harris, 43, a founding member of the Bronx's legendary rap group Cold Crush Brothers. "The young people think it's fashionable. They don't think it's negative."
But for those who want to stop them see it as an indecent, sloppy trend that is a bad influence on children.
"It has the potential to catch on with elementary school kids, and we want to stop it before it gets there," said C.T. Martin, an Atlanta councilman. "Teachers have raised questions about what a distraction it is."
In Atlanta, a law has been introduced to ban sagging and punishment could include small fines or community work — but no jail time, Martin said.
The penalty is stiffer in Delcambre, La., where in June the town council passed an ordinance that carries a fine of up to $500 or six months in jail for exposing underwear in public. Several other municipalities and parish governments in Louisiana have enacted similar laws in recent months.
At Trenton hip-hop clothing store Razor Sharp Clothing Shop 4 Ballers, shopper Mark Wise, 30, said his jeans sag for practical reasons.
"The reason I don't wear tight pants is because it's easier to get money out of my pocket this way," Wise said. "It's just more comfortable."
Shop owner Mack Murray said Trenton's proposed ordinance unfairly targets blacks.
"Are they going to go after construction workers and plumbers, because their pants sag, too?" Murray asked. "They're stereotyping us."
The American Civil Liberties Union agrees.
"In Atlanta, we see this as racial profiling," said Benetta Standly, statewide organizer for the American Civil Liberties Union of Georgia. "It's going to target African-American male youths. There's a fear with people associating the way you dress with crimes being committed."
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This just got passed in my city.....
I don't wear my pants sagging, but I'm now looking into it. I don't know how it looks on me but I must get the message across that they(Old blacks that hate young black culture, yes it happens in the south) can kiss my ass, even if that means showing my ass. ::kma::
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How do they figure that exposed boxer shorts are any more obscene than a swimsuit at the beach or at a public pool?
Plumber's crack is more revealing and definitely not fashionable, but the shop owner in Trenton has a point -- are they going to go after plumbers and construction workers too? Somehow I don't think so. Well, maybe just the darker skinned ones.
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How do they figure that exposed boxer shorts are any more obscene than a swimsuit at the beach or at a public pool?
Plumber's crack is more revealing and definitely not fashionable, but the shop owner in Trenton has a point -- are they going to go after plumbers and construction workers too? Somehow I don't think so. Well, maybe just the darker skinned ones.
That's the thing all of these sagging pants laws are being pushed by blacks, it's insane but they really hate young blacks. They look at young black culture as a disgrace to their great negro Afro American image of blacks in suits with pants pulled up to the nipple :o
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Teachers or Cops: Who's being bribed to run shooting drills?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT1Tc5naLoQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT1Tc5naLoQ)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9sJapLNQfk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9sJapLNQfk)
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Shooting drills are awesome because we know exactly what everyone else is going to do before we kill them.
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This teacher wont need to call the police (or the principle) if a student pulls a gun out of his backpack:
Ashland, Ore. - In court documents, she's known as "Jane Doe." Innocuous enough, but the woman behind that pseudonym pushes one of the nation's hottest political buttons: guns and school safety.
What Ms. Doe wants to do is take her Glock 9-mm pistol to the high school in Medford, Ore., where she teaches.
She's licensed to carry a concealed weapon and she has what many supporters say is a legitimate reason for being armed: a restraining order against her ex-husband based on threats he's allegedly made against her and her children..............................................
Full Story (http://http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20070918/ts_csm/aselfdefense_1;_ylt=ArJcakAtat4vrI36avdWr5cE1vAI)
...
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Can they ratchet it down any tighter?
Ban ADHD Drugs, Not Tag
by Tony Zizza
It appears the last good thing coming out of the state of Colorado is Coors beer. Everything else has taken a horrible left hand turn down the drain. Does the mountain air in Colorado have a way of turning their education system into a circus?
Colorado is home to the infamous college professor/goon Ward Churchill, and it is home to a high school education system where guest speakers/ programs ramble on and on about the pleasures of sex and drugs. There is no shame. There is no standards. There is no accountability. One would think things could not go off the deep end any further in Colorado.
Oh, but they can. And they have.
The Associated Press reported on September 2nd that an "elementary school has banned tag on its playground after some children complained they were harassed or chased against their will."
Color me cynical, but these are just the kind of children who will only become, well, adult children. I'm sure their parents (if you can call them that) are a bunch of wimps. This is a terribly unfunny joke. The world is laughing at us.
According to Cindy Fesgen, assistant principal of the Discovery Canyon Campus school, tag "causes a lot of conflict on the playground." And the issue is - what? Life in the form of human relationships is a constant crash course in conflict. Conflict is how you work things out. Grow. Cooperate. Negotiate. Give up. Ms. Fegen must think that children who do not experience conflict in elementary school outside play will somehow have an inside track on never experiencing conflict in the adult world. Oops. I forgot. My bad. Ms. Fegen and her Discovery Canyon warriors will never know what it's like to be a full grown adult.
Banning tag on an elementary school playground? This is social engineering run amok, and run right out of a sewer.
But it brings a great idea to mind. It's an idea that should be brought to fruition. It could save thousands and thousands of young minds, not just in "Hey, anything goes!" Colorado, but in schools all across this dynamic country of ours.
Ban ADHD drugs, not tag. That's right. You would have to be a moron with a capital M if you do not realize that the emotional impact of tag on an elementary school student is a hell of a lot less severe than the emotional and physical impact ADHD drugs have on students whose minds and bodies are still - growing. Did you hear me? Still growing!
Are these weasels who rail on about tag and how it must be banned, also willing to ban ADHD drugs? I mean, doesn't every school in America have several drug free zone signs in the front entrance for everyone to see, already? What kind of parent or teacher could support ramming Methylphenidate down the throat of an innocent child, but could not support that same child engaging in a simple game of tag?
We're awful teachers and parents if we give tag the boot, but continue to welcome in Big Pharma to our schools and homes. We welcome in Big Pharma in the form of subjective mental disorders, the acceptance of their drugs, and the constant advertising of the ADHD lie in the form of advertising in magazines such as Woman's Day, Redbook and Family Circle. Millions of parents and teachers read these magazines, and see the slick ADHD machine at work.
How sad. Picture a parent-teacher conference or a family dinner (rare, these days) where voices carry to ban the emotional evil of tag, but the mighty label of ADHD is accepted without question. Without debate. Without a wonder. Without a second thought as to the real damage an ADHD diagnosis/drug does to the heart and mind of a small innocent child. Well, at least lousy parents (more interested in their careers or tennis) are relieved with the comfort their child's eventual compliance brings.
So, what kind of parent/teacher are you? Are you against the simple game of tag, but for a child being schooled in ADHD doublespeak and dangerous drugs? Where does your soul weigh in on this one?
Come on, this one is a no brainer.
Ban ADHD drugs, not tag.
Zizza is a freelance writer based in Atlanta, GA. He writes frequently about education and popular culture. Reach him via email at: [email protected]
New Media Alliance Television
The opinions expressed in this column represent those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the opinions, views, or philosophy of TheRealityCheck.org
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Hysteria doesn't make the school's or the state's actions right in this case. Over reaction is just as bad as no reaction, the whole problem with zeroT in a nut shell. The question is simple does a 14 year old deserve a felony(?) on his record for making a kid mistake?
No
The thing is i honestly can understand why the police would be called if a kid brought a gun to school even if it was fake. But then there is a cultural difference as nobody owns guns here. What i cant understand is the cops reaction. if they had a lick of common sense they would examine the gun, see it was fake, tell the kid off for being a bloddyt idiot and perhaps have a quiet word with his parents. The kid would likely be suspended for a day or 2 and this is it. it is as if these cops feel that without some sort of arrest in every situation they are not doing their job!!
As to the pants thing. Dont even get me started!!!
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Yeh the pants thing... as if denying them the right wear saggy pants (or anything else) is going to magically remove their confusion, frustration, anger, disillusionment.
Right. It's just one more issue to compound their confusion, frustration, anger, disillusionment.
Do they think the kid wouldn't shoot up the school while wearing docker and a polo, if he was inclined to do so?
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I think they want to draw out the rebellious, TBQH.
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http://www.sptimes.com/2007/09/19/State ... uden.shtml (http://www.sptimes.com/2007/09/19/State/Tasering_of_UF_studen.shtml)
Tasering of UF student sparks uproar
Protesters speak out, UF's president is embarrassed and the state is investigating.
By STEPHANIE GARRY, Times Correspondent
Published September 19, 2007
University of Florida student Andrew Meyer is released from the Alachua County Jail in Gainesville, Fla., on his own recognizance. Meyer was arrested and Tasered by campus police on Monday after repeatedly interrupting a speech given by Sen. John Kerry at the university.
[AP photo]
University of Florida students walk to the University Police Department in Gainesville, Fla., to protest of the arrest of fellow student Andrew Meyer during a speech by U.S. Sen. John Kerry.
U.S. News Video
GAINESVILLE -- Citing a regrettable crackdown on free speech, the University of Florida put two police officers on paid leave and requested a state investigation into the use of a Taser on a student during a Monday speech by U.S. Sen. John Kerry.
On Tuesday, more than 100 protesters sat cross-legged on the floor of the campus building where UF president Bernie Machen told reporters he regretted the incident because it interfered with the university's core mission of the open exchange of ideas.
"The black eye is that ... discourse didn't occur," Machen said. "I'm embarrassed by it."
The controversy began when Andrew Meyer, 21, asked Kerry about a book that argues the senator won the 2004 presidential election. Speech organizers said time was up, and Meyer's microphone was turned off. Two police officers struggled with him to the back of the auditorium, where other officers joined and forced him to the ground, Tasered and handcuffed him.
Meyer was arrested on charges including resisting arrest with violence, a felony, and interfering with an educational event, a misdemeanor. He spent a night in jail before his release Tuesday morning on his own recognizance. He had no comment when he left.
UF has placed the sergeant who ordered the use of the Taser and the officer who shot it on paid leave. The Florida Department of Law Enforcement will investigate whether force was properly applied, and its report will be forwarded to a panel of professors and students who will recommend any changes to UF's policy. The State Attorney's Office will decide whether to formally charge Meyer.
The arrest escalated into a national spectacle with the help of technology and a campus climate charged with worry over the Virginia Tech shootings. Hundreds of thousands of people viewed YouTube videos showing his question and shouts of "Don't Tase me, bro" and "I didn't do anything" as officers subdue him.
"In 37 years of public appearances, through wars, protests and highly emotional events, I have never had a dialogue end this way," Kerry said in a statement Tuesday.
Machen, who has been flooded with calls and e-mails about the arrest, said UF must ensure the safety of students and their right to free speech.
Machen said Tasers are an accepted law enforcement tool on most campuses. UF spokesman Steve Orlando said police started using them in 2001, and 17 students, including Meyer, have been Tasered. But none created such a controversy as this.
UF has not suspended Meyer, and Machen said he is welcome to return to classes. "The sooner the better," Machen said.
Meyer, a telecommunications junior from Weston, has a Web site that features a self-described "disorganized diatribe" criticizing media coverage of the Iraq war. The book he held at Monday's event was Armed Madhouse by Greg Palast, which reports on voting irregularities in the 2004 presidential contest and calls Kerry the victor.
He's also known for posting practical jokes and comedy routines online.
Meyer was a columnist for the Independent Florida Alligator, the student newspaper, for at least a semester more than a year ago, but was not given regular space more recently.
Josh Goldman, a UF senior who met Meyer two years ago, said his friend is interested in presidential candidate Ron Paul and 9/11 Truth, a movement that questions the mainstream explanation of Sept. 11.
Meyer was noticeably absent Tuesday. Friends had not seen or heard from him, and he did not attend the protest or a news conference held by his attorney, Robert Griscti, who said Meyer was resting and wouldn't be made available to reporters.
Before asking his question Monday, Meyer handed a videocamera to Clarissa Jessup, a Santa Fe Community College student who didn't know Meyer, and asked her to record his question. Jessup followed him and wedged herself between police officers to capture his screams after being hit with the Taser. She uploaded it to YouTube that day.
"I couldn't believe the injustice that was happening to him," Jessup said.
Information from the Associated Press is included in this report.
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Retarded conspiracy theorist + aggressive, clueless cops = lulz
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I think we've touched on this before, no?
Would this be related to: don't pee in the cup!!?
We were just talking about this the other day.
I said I was sure all students and questions were:
Hand picked; thoroughly checked out... Ya know, all 'the bullshit' required to get near the guy?
And you don't want kids that will 'make a scene' :oops: :oops:
::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
And a backup plan, just in case ('specially w/Kerry)
IN CASE OF EMERGENCY: cut the power
::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao:: ::roflmao::
It's not funny....I know....I'm sorry...That was rude.
My son is very annoyed that I said all that stuff and then it happened ::boohoo::