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Messages - odie

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166
Daytop Village / Has anybody been to Daytop lately?
« on: August 26, 2005, 12:52:00 PM »
How can I put this gently? You are the most arrogant mindless twit I've met in a very long time. If you want to continue this debate just email me and stop making yourself look more and more like an asshole on this site.

No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles


167
Daytop Village / Has anybody been to Daytop lately?
« on: August 26, 2005, 09:38:00 AM »
I take it choose to put yourself above anyone that might be a former resident of a program that may now be a counselor so I really shouldn't bother with a mindless twit like yourself but I am a licensed counselor and was a resident of one of those programs many years ago. I don't have a college degree but probably have more knowledge on the subject of substance abuse and ethics than most that do. You can keep ranting about how right you are but I'd be interested to know if you really did turn someone in that was in treatment, what hearings did you have to go through before the judge issued an order to release the records?

Religion is a byproduct of fear. For much of human history, it may have been a necessary evil, but why was it more evil than necessary? Isn't killing people in the name of God a pretty good definition of insanity?
--Arthur C. Clarke, author


168
Daytop Village / Has anybody been to Daytop lately?
« on: August 25, 2005, 05:51:00 PM »
As far as continuing this debate, it looks like I'm dealing with someone who only wants to look at what they want to in the law and posting excerpts from it here. If anyone wants to take a look at the law for themselves go to Coded Federal Regulations and look at Section 42 Part 6. Like I said before, the case in California that this person claims to set precedent had nothing to do with Substance Abuse or a client in either a Substance Abuse program or receiving Substance Abuse Counseling. Those are the facts, plain and simple.

Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
--Annie Dillard, "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek"


169
Daytop Village / Has anybody been to Daytop lately?
« on: August 25, 2005, 05:39:00 PM »
I strongly oppose any legalization of the use, distribution, or aquisition mainly based on the experiences that countries in Europe had when they tried it as a solution to their problem. As far as scientifically based treament, I'd say the programs using cognitive behavioral therapy and motivational enhancement therapy bear the most productive results. Of course there are far too many programs stuck in the past that for whatever reason refuse to look at recent scientific research because they think their way is the only way and because it worked for them it must work for everyone else. Of course in a perfect world where everyone was identical this may be true, but it isn't a perfect world and we have to deal with each person based on their strengths and begin there when trying to have them modify their behaviors.

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor


170
Daytop Village / Has anybody been to Daytop lately?
« on: August 25, 2005, 11:19:00 AM »
non profits fall under the federal umbrella...they have tax exempt status therefore are federally subsidized.

To go to Journal of Applied Polymer Science go to http://www3.interscience.wiley.com and then journal search and put the journal number and year
-- Journal of Applied Polymer Science  Vol. 47, 1984


171
Daytop Village / Has anybody been to Daytop lately?
« on: August 25, 2005, 11:17:00 AM »
Yes, and the stringent refers to the clients rights, not the social worker or psychologist' s moral or ethical dilemma. 42CFR Part Six was enacted because the Government realized that drug addicts weren't seeking treatment because of the fear that if they talked about crimes they commited they could be prosecuted. I pray that you are no longer working in the field of substance abuse treatment because you are a reason why addicts never sought treatment in the first place. If you think you are so correct on this point, just notify the feds what you did. I'm sure they will be glad to let you know how much the fine is for the first offense. Then maybe you will realize why the law is in place.

Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America's] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.

--John Quincy Adams, Speech to the U.S. House of Representatives [July 4, 1821]


172
Daytop Village / Has anybody been to Daytop lately?
« on: August 24, 2005, 01:24:00 PM »
Actually its not against the law. The Federal Confidentiality Law specifically states that the only mandated reporting a substance abuse counselor has to make has to do with child abuse. Although many states have enacted laws that mandate counselors to report other things, federal law always comes first and the counselor must abide by it. The law was enacted because lets face it, drug addicts are criminals and would have never sought treatment if they knew that any info they shared about crimes they committed would be used against them while in treatment. You don't have to agree with the law but you must abide by it. As far as a question of ethics, if knowing you would be working with criminals bothers a person so much then that person has no business working in the substance abuse field period.

For more than a hundred years much complaint has been made of the unmethodical way in which schools are conducted...with what result?  Schools remain exactly as they were.
--Comenius,1632


173
Daytop Village / Has anybody been to Daytop lately?
« on: June 27, 2005, 02:05:00 PM »
The next time you speak to your boyfriend make sure he signs a release of confidentiality so you can speak with his counselor if you ever have questions or haven't heard from him in awhile. This way they can't stonewall you when you try to find out any info.

If TCs were interested in treating substance abuse, half the time they'd tell mom "Sorry ma'am, we can't help him. He's not an addict, he's just an asshole.
--GregFL


174
Daytop Village / Has anybody been to Daytop lately?
« on: June 23, 2005, 03:49:00 PM »
Well one thing peculiar about programs like Daytop is how they come to the decision to put a person in long term residential treatment to begin with. Do they follow ASAM criteria or do they just throw anyone in just because they need to fill a bed and oh yeah...fill their pockets with more state monies. I think its the latter. I don't see how someone with a few DWI's fits that criteria if thev'e never been in any other counseling at all. I wonder if any state regulatory authorities have ever really taken a good close look at Daytop to see if they are treating legitamate substance abusers or are they just taking anyone to fill their beds.

Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor


175
Daytop Village / Has anybody been to Daytop lately?
« on: May 03, 2005, 12:34:00 PM »
You can call their intake facility in Far  Rockaway or the family assocation at their main headquarters at 54 W. 40 ST in NYC for information. Between the entry unit and orientation in upstate treatment it should take him about 60-90 days to get writing priveledges.

Don't sweat the
Petty Things

Don't pet the
Sweaty Things

Water what you want to grow.
--Curiosity


176
Daytop Village / Has anybody been to Daytop lately?
« on: April 25, 2005, 04:35:00 PM »
Sounds like nothing has changed since I was there 5 years ago. First off who told you that he can't speak to you because you drank together? If you are now sober you should be able to get screened by their staff to be able to communicate with your boyfriend. Have you written to him and not had the letters returned to you unopened? If not then do it so you can know that he is at least there or not. Federal law forbids anyone from interfering with the U.S. Mail. Try to contact his counselor to see how he is doing. Just pray that they afforded him the oppurtunity to sign a release of confidentiality for you to know his status in treatment otherwise you are basically screwed because then they won't and can't even acknowledge that he is there.

All thinking men are atheists.
--Ernest Hemingway, American author


177
Daytop Village / FRANK LANZA
« on: April 07, 2005, 12:45:00 PM »
I also knew Frank to be somewhat hardcore but he mellowed as time went on. The trouble with Frank and a lot of the oldtimers was they were and are out of touch with reality. What may have worked for them 30-40 years ago definately has no place in the substance abuse field today. But they are stuck in the mindset that worked for them must work for everyone. As far as " Those that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones", my foundation is solid today not crumbling like it was in my years at Daytop. And anybody who had a good experience at Dasytop hey more power to you but I'm not going to sit in a dark room with a paper bag over my head anymore and hide. If anybody wants to deny that abuse happened at Daytop I say to them point blank..You're full of shit!

Hands that help are far better then lips that pray.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer


178
Daytop Village / Former Staff
« on: April 06, 2005, 10:24:00 AM »
One of the things I always heard at Daytop was " It's nice to want something". Like I said Daytop wants to open in Maine, and I have been warning people about them since I heard. Maine isn't like New York where their power base is. People up here are difficult to scam. I almost died when I saw in the papers ranting on how they have saved over 50,000 lives over the years. Thats the same number they were touting in 1989. Wonder why nothing has changed in 15 years?

G:   "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do?"
EB:  "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."
-- Somewhere in No Man's Land, BA4


179
Daytop Village / Former Staff
« on: April 05, 2005, 11:39:00 PM »
I worked as a counselor for Daytop for ten years and I'd like to share my experiences here. I've read a lot of the posts that put down a lot of the staff saying they were abusive and uneducated. My first reaction was this is all bullshit! I began working there in 1990 and left in the summer of 2000. I look back at those years and sometimes wonder was I one of those abusive uneducated assholes they are talking about. The truth is that in the beginning I was. There was always this us against them mind set with the educated professional staff on one side and the recovering staff on the other. Recovering staff feared the knowledge of the professional staff and the professioal staff feared the life experience knowledge of the recovering staff. The biggest problem the recovering staff had was misguided loyalty. I was definately guilty of that. That was until I finally realized I was following a bunch of assholes who I swear went home every night thinking of new ways to fuck with peoples heads. It was then that I decided well what would happen if I sought the knowledge that all these professionals had? Well it took a lot of hard work but as time went on I gained that knowledge by going to school, attending workshops, and not being afraid to ask the professionals a lot of questions. As I did that I not only grew as a counselor but as a person too. Working for Daytop had a lot of ups and downs. i met a lot of fantastic people but unfortunately My final years were a complete nightmare. I was ridiculed and emotionally abused by senior staff that were only interested in one thing, letting you know that they were in control. When I gave my notice and told them I was moving to Maine to be with the woman I loved, they told me I was crazy. What did I get for ten years of faithful service? Not a god damn thing, not even a thank you card.I left the field for three years after that nightmare but I'm back now working with kids in the correctional system. I hear that Daytop wants to open a facility in Maine. God Help Us if they do.

Don't hate the media. Become the media

--Jello Biafra


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