Fornits

General Interest => Feed Your Head => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 01, 2007, 03:58:57 PM

Title: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
Post by: Anonymous on April 01, 2007, 03:58:57 PM
http://pubs.acs.org/cen/reelscience/rev ... the_bleep/ (http://pubs.acs.org/cen/reelscience/reviews/whatthe_bleep/)

Quote
WHAT THE BLEEP DO WE KNOW?!
ELIZABETH WILSON, C&EN WEST COAST BUREAU
Some movies are so bad, they’re funny. “What the Bleep Do We Know,” a pseudoscientific docudrama that purports to link quantum mechanics and consciousness, would be a riot if people didn’t take it so seriously.
Title: Re: "What the Bleep?"
Post by: Ursus on May 19, 2007, 11:15:12 PM
The film "What the Bleep?" has been discussed a bit in the Hyde Forum, as at least two former students have been involved in some fashion.  One of them was and perhaps still is in some way involved with the film's public relations team. Another, his sister, uses material from the film in her comedy routines.  Both siblings were involved with the Ramtha cult. Perhaps still are.

The film is used extensively as a propaganda tool.  Most, if not all, of the key personnel are or were involved with the cult, a fact not made apparent in the marketing.

A number of the scientists quoted therein have complained that their comments, as aired in the film, were taken out of context from the original interviews.  One in particular has stated that his premise was, in fact, the opposite of how it is construed in the film.

Rick Ross has some interesting material on the Ramtha cult; much of it pertains to this film.  The so-called popularity of the film is almost entirely driven by devotees of the cult, who bombard film critics with info and flood a myriad of advertising milieu's, especially in the form of comments left for reviews, articles, etc., whenever and wherever the film is scheduled to be screened.

See also:

Title: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
Post by: Anonymous on July 03, 2007, 05:39:56 PM
A lot of WWASP parents are pushing this book, right up there with Oprah.

If Oprah said it was good, then it must be.
Title: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
Post by: Froderik on July 03, 2007, 05:56:38 PM
So essentially what sort of bullshit does it attempt to convey?
Title: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
Post by: Anonymous on July 05, 2007, 07:55:37 PM
Well lets see, ahhhhh, buy the movie/book.
Title: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
Post by: Froderik on July 05, 2007, 10:48:40 PM
Well let's see, ahhhh, eat shit.
Title: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2007, 01:07:13 PM
Are you offering?
Title: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
Post by: Froderik on July 21, 2007, 09:33:18 AM
So essentially what sort of bullshit does it attempt to convey? :P
Title: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
Post by: RTPChristSupertzar on July 23, 2007, 10:52:39 PM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
So essentially what sort of bullshit does it attempt to convey? :P



The idea that smoking crack is bad for you.  It's not, it's really kind of fun, as long as you don't overdo it.
Title: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
Post by: Froderik on August 08, 2007, 12:13:32 PM
So what's the deal with this thing anyway?

Is it like Dianetics or something?
Title: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
Post by: java.gurl on August 21, 2007, 08:47:45 PM
The Secret is about the laws of attraction. Basically you are what you attract. If you send out posotive, happy vibes they are returned to you. I was given the DVD and linked up to the website but have yet to watch it. I fille dout some card and am supposed to re-evaluate it again after I watch the flik. I'll let ya know. If it works and I become richer than whoever is the richest person around these here days I will throw a HUDGE par-tay for us former Elan-ites. And other cool folk too.
Title: "What the Blimp"
Post by: Ursus on August 22, 2007, 12:02:24 AM
Quote from: ""Froderik""
So what's the deal with this thing anyway?

Is it like Dianetics or something?

I can't vouch for what 'The Secret' is about, but 'What the Blimp' is essentially one long sophomoric commercial for the Ramtha cult in Washington state. Basically a lot of narcissistic New Age philosophy mixed in with some scientific jargon for the oomph aspect, but utterly lacking in scientific merit cuz these people don't know what the fuck they're talking about. Try Lifespring spouted by Marlee Matlin mixed in with some animation and a soundtrack and no plot and a woman with a baritone voice who may or may not age well. I guess the burgundy red robe can only do so much when you're 35,000 years old. Targets people with no scientific background and gullible wanna feel goods.

I would thumb my nose, but I'm too busy reaming boogers out and smearing them on Ramtha's webpage.

J/K  :seg:
Title: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
Post by: Froderik on August 22, 2007, 08:03:18 AM
Quote from: ""Ursus""
'What the Blimp'

That's "What the Bleep," right? :rofl:
Funny post, btw.
Title: WHAT SECRET
Post by: BROWNIE on August 23, 2007, 08:37:48 AM
So essentially what sort of bullshit does it attempt to convey?

"POSITIVE THINKING SCIENTOLOGY STUFF,"
Title: THE SECRT
Post by: BROWNIE on August 23, 2007, 08:43:02 AM
Quote from: java.gurl
The Secret is about the laws of attraction. Basically you are what you attract. If you send out posotive, happy vibes they are returned to you. I was given the DVD and linked up to the website but have yet to watch it. I fille dout some card and am supposed to re-evaluate it again after I watch the flik. I'll let ya know. If it works and I become richer than whoever is the richest person around these here days I will throw a HUDGE par-tay for us former Elan-ites. And other cool folk too.

THAT IS A VERY PERSICE DESCRITION !

RIGHT-ON U FAIRY. LOL
Title: Re: WHAT SECRET
Post by: Ursus on August 26, 2007, 04:18:16 PM
Quote from: ""BROWNIE""
So essentially what sort of bullshit does it attempt to convey?

POSITIVE THINKING SCIENTOLOGY STUFF,"

http://www.official-site.thesgrprogram.com/ (http://www.official-site.thesgrprogram.com/)
"LEARN THE LAW OF ATTRACTION FROM THE TEACHERS FEATURED IN THE SECRET"

blah blah blah...

Quote
These possibilities are YOURS for only $1,995.

This is your answer to make
the permanent changes you know are necessary.

Begin Using The Law of Attraction To Better Your World

So please... don't pass up this ridiculously generous offer. You will likely never get another opportunity to listen to this program and activate the Law of Attraction in your life with this kind of detail.

Sincerely,

Bob Proctor


Basically, this is another pyramid scam, as far as I'm concerned... These hucksters are just too lazy to stand behind a pulpit and scream it out for our hard-earned dollars...
Title: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
Post by: java.gurl on August 31, 2007, 01:45:16 PM
I gotta watch this damned DVD I have had it for 2 months now. I read my little weekly gossip mags and see the pics of celebs carrying the book "The Secret" around with them. They all say it rocks and is right on the money and has improved their lives 10 fold.  Maybe Elan should pass it out when they get new residents in. It should be required reading for students and staff alike.... :rofl:
Title: So, what's The Secret?
Post by: Ursus on June 24, 2010, 10:30:06 AM
Sweat expert (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28923) James Arthur Ray has a few words to share in this older blog entry:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Wednesday, October 19, 2005
So, what's The Secret? (http://http://jamesaaray.blogspot.com/2005/10/so-whats-secret.html)

Dear Friend,

I've got to share some exciting news with you.

I was recently invited to share my personal experience and insights for an upcoming television show called "The Secret," along with several of the world's greatest teachers.

What is "The Secret?"

Well, "The Secret" is a world-premier television event that will rock the planet early next year, featuring the most well-known authors and speakers in the field of transformation and the expansion of consciousness. I recorded over three hours of footage for "The Secret"--two hours longer than scheduled! And I shared some of my best information ever ...

To learn more about "The Secret" (and to check out the must-see trailer), visit the pre-launch website at:

http://jamesray.com/thesecret (http://http://jamesray.com/thesecret)[/list]

The site has been live for just under 72 hours, and in the first 48 hours, over 16,000 people viewed the trailer--from all over the world! Below is a map showing all the countries that have visited in the first 48 hours. (There is a legend on the side of the map. Red dots indicate 10 or more people have visited from the same location.) You can virtually see the world lighting up as the news spreads that "The Secret" is coming!

(http://http://www.jamesray.com/emails/announcement/thesecret/01_map.jpg)

To the advancement of the planet,

James Arthur Ray
President/CEO
James Ray International


Copyright © 2009 James Ray International, Inc.
Title: Re: So, what's The Secret?
Post by: DannyB II on June 24, 2010, 03:43:25 PM
Quote from: "Ursus"
Sweat expert (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28923) James Arthur Ray has a few words to share in this older blog entry:

-------------- • -------------- • --------------

Wednesday, October 19, 2005
So, what's The Secret? (http://http://jamesaaray.blogspot.com/2005/10/so-whats-secret.html)

Dear Friend,

I've got to share some exciting news with you.

I was recently invited to share my personal experience and insights for an upcoming television show called "The Secret," along with several of the world's greatest teachers.

What is "The Secret?"

Well, "The Secret" is a world-premier television event that will rock the planet early next year, featuring the most well-known authors and speakers in the field of transformation and the expansion of consciousness. I recorded over three hours of footage for "The Secret"--two hours longer than scheduled! And I shared some of my best information ever ...

To learn more about "The Secret" (and to check out the must-see trailer), visit the pre-launch website at:

    http://jamesray.com/thesecret (http://http://jamesray.com/thesecret)[/list]

    The site has been live for just under 72 hours, and in the first 48 hours, over 16,000 people viewed the trailer--from all over the world! Below is a map showing all the countries that have visited in the first 48 hours. (There is a legend on the side of the map. Red dots indicate 10 or more people have visited from the same location.) You can virtually see the world lighting up as the news spreads that "The Secret" is coming!

    (http://http://www.jamesray.com/emails/announcement/thesecret/01_map.jpg)

    To the advancement of the planet,

    James Arthur Ray
    President/CEO
    James Ray International


    Copyright © 2009 James Ray International, Inc.

    Ursus, you must feel downtrodden sometimes, like your always going uphill. James just keeps rolling along on his merry way and you keep trying to portray the man as a villian. I don't think folks are listening unless their drinking your kool-aid.
    Title: Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Post by: Joel on June 24, 2010, 03:53:43 PM
    Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
    Title: Re: So, what's The Secret?
    Post by: Paul St. John on June 24, 2010, 03:57:11 PM
    You missed one, Joel....



    Quote
    Ursus, you must feel downtrodden sometimes, like your always going uphill. James just keeps rolling along on his merry way and you keep trying to portray the man as a villian. I don't think folks are listening unless their drinking your kool-aid.


    Well, hell.. He almost pulled off 3 sentences.

    Paul
    Title: Re: So, what's The Secret?
    Post by: Anne Bonney on June 24, 2010, 04:03:10 PM
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Ursus, you must feel downtrodden sometimes, like your always going uphill. James just keeps rolling along on his merry way

    You mistake Ursus calling someone out on their bullshit for his feeling "downtrodden".  

    Yes James Ray is rolling right along...milking all he can out of weak and gullible people, such as yourself apparently.  

    That's my issue with those places/people.  They prey on the weak, vulnerable and gullible ones.  They delve into some deep stuff and most times have no qualifications to do so.  It's a money making scam and you're right Danny.....he keeps rolling along, sucking all he can from his marks and not giving a whit about any of the collateral damage he leaves in his wake.
    Title: Re: So, what's The Secret?
    Post by: DannyB II on June 24, 2010, 04:08:01 PM
    Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Ursus, you must feel downtrodden sometimes, like your always going uphill. James just keeps rolling along on his merry way

    You mistake Ursus calling someone out on their bullshit for his feeling "downtrodden".  

    Yes James Ray is rolling right along...milking all he can out of weak and gullible people, such as yourself apparently.  

    That's my issue with those places/people.  They prey on the weak, vulnerable and gullible ones.  They delve into some deep stuff and most times have no qualifications to do so.  It's a money making scam and you're right Danny.....he keeps rolling along, sucking all he can from his marks and not giving a whit about any of the collateral damage he leaves in his wake.[/quote

    Fuckin  Ay........ :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:
    I know Anne, it is just horrible.
    My Goodness you would make a wonderful Drama teacher.
    Title: Re: So, what's The Secret?
    Post by: aliciakeys on June 24, 2010, 04:12:35 PM
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Ursus, you must feel downtrodden sometimes, like your always going uphill. James just keeps rolling along on his merry way

    You mistake Ursus calling someone out on their bullshit for his feeling "downtrodden".  

    Yes James Ray is rolling right along...milking all he can out of weak and gullible people, such as yourself apparently.  

    That's my issue with those places/people.  They prey on the weak, vulnerable and gullible ones.  They delve into some deep stuff and most times have no qualifications to do so.  It's a money making scam and you're right Danny.....he keeps rolling along, sucking all he can from his marks and not giving a whit about any of the collateral damage he leaves in his wake.[/quote

    Fuckin  Ay........ :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:
    I know Anne, it is just horrible.
    My Goodness you would make a wonderful Drama teacher.

    Danny why are you disrespecting your master again?    :fuckoff:
    Title: Re: So, what's The Secret?
    Post by: Ursus on June 24, 2010, 04:32:17 PM
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Quote from: "Anne Bonney"
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Ursus, you must feel downtrodden sometimes, like your always going uphill. James just keeps rolling along on his merry way
    You mistake Ursus calling someone out on their bullshit for his feeling "downtrodden".  

    Yes James Ray is rolling right along...milking all he can out of weak and gullible people, such as yourself apparently.  

    That's my issue with those places/people.  They prey on the weak, vulnerable and gullible ones.  They delve into some deep stuff and most times have no qualifications to do so.  It's a money making scam and you're right Danny.....he keeps rolling along, sucking all he can from his marks and not giving a whit about any of the collateral damage he leaves in his wake.
    Fuckin  Ay........ :rocker:  :rocker:  :rocker:
    I know Anne, it is just horrible.
    My Goodness you would make a wonderful Drama teacher.
    Lol. When ya got nothing more ya can possibly say... try a gratuitous ad hominem! :D


    Ad hominem abusive (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem)

    Ad hominem abusive usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions.

    Examples:

    [/li][/list]
    Title: Re: So, what's The Secret?
    Post by: DannyB II on June 24, 2010, 04:33:03 PM
    Quote
    Anne wrote:
    You mistake Ursus calling someone out on their bullshit for his feeling "downtrodden".

    Danny wrote:
    I did not know that you were qualified to call James, "out on his bullshit".

     
    Quote
    Yes James Ray is rolling right along...milking all he can out of weak and gullible people, such as yourself apparently.

    See, this is what I mean Anne because I don't agree with your view, I am weak and gullible. Why do you have to do this, why can't you just state your point and leave it at that. I am not weak and gullible, I did not pay thousands of dollars for sweat lodge weekends nor do I endorse James Rays workshops.
    I probably know as much about the man as you, zilch really.
    I am not ready to brand the guy a villain, snake oil salesman or milkman.
     
    Quote
    That's my issue with those places/people.  They prey on the weak, vulnerable and gullible ones.  They delve into some deep stuff and most times have no qualifications to do so.  It's a money making scam and you're right Danny.....he keeps rolling along, sucking all he can from his marks and not giving a whit about any of the collateral damage he leaves in his wake.

    Anne, you got all of this out of a very sad set of events.
    You do understand the average price was $9000.00, not chicken feed. The people who attended were your above average income earners, white collar executives. Supposed to be smart, level-headed folks yet without much common sense.
    Who pays $9000.00 for a weekend, folks who have cash and don't care how they spend it.
    So no, they are not weak and gullible, they are folks with to much money and no common sense.
    Just my opinion, Anne.
    Title: Re: So, what's The Secret?
    Post by: Anne Bonney on June 24, 2010, 04:51:13 PM
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    I did not know that you were qualified to call James, "out on his bullshit".


    Sure I am.  So are you.  Anyone is.  It's called an opinion.

     
    Quote
    See, this is what I mean Anne because I don't agree with your view, I am weak and gullible.


    No, I think you're weak and gullible because you put your faith in stupid crap like Tony Robbins, James Ray etc., not because you disagree with me.

    Quote
    Why do you have to do this, why can't you just state your point and leave it at that.

    I did.

     
    Quote
    I am not weak and gullible, I did not pay thousands of dollars for sweat lodge weekends nor do I endorse James Rays workshops.
    I probably know as much about the man as you, zilch really.

    You sure imply differently.


    Quote
    I am not ready to brand the guy a villain, snake oil salesman or milkman.

    Ok....I am.
     

    Quote
    Anne, you got all of this out of a very sad set of events.

    Ok.

    Quote
    You do understand the average price was $9000.00, not chicken feed.

    Yeah, stupid people pay big bucks for stupid shit.

     
    Quote
    The people who attended were your above average income earners, white collar executives. Supposed to be smart, level-headed folks yet without much common sense.
    Who pays $9000.00 for a weekend, folks who have cash and don't care how they spend it.

    And are weak, gullible and in search of the next 'guru' to lead them around by their bank account.

    Quote
    So no, they are not weak and gullible, they are folks with to much money and no common sense.
    Just my opinion, Anne.

    Not to different from mine then.  Ok.
    Title: Re: So, what's The Secret?
    Post by: Ursus on June 24, 2010, 04:57:38 PM
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    You do understand the average price was $9000.00, not chicken feed. The people who attended were your above average income earners, white collar executives. Supposed to be smart, level-headed folks yet without much common sense.
    Who pays $9000.00 for a weekend, folks who have cash and don't care how they spend it.
    So no, they are not weak and gullible, they are folks with to much money and no common sense.
    According to the update in this article (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28923&start=30#p367577), the price for the Spiritual Warrior experience was $9,695. As many as 68 people were allegedly crammed into that sweat box.

    Within two hours, it became necessary to place a 911 call regarding two folk who had no pulse. By the time emergency help arrived, 19 additional folk also had to be transported to a variety of local hospitals, several even helicoptered off of the retreat site.

    This would be a roughly 31% "mishap" rate, presuming an accurate head count. Not due to an act of God; no thunderbolts struck the sweat lodge, no tornadoes carted anyone away. So who was responsible for this, eh? Are ya gonna blame the whole thing on the participants who signed up for this, the "folks with to
    • [/b] much money and no common sense?"
    Title: Re: So, what's The Secret?
    Post by: DannyB II on June 24, 2010, 05:17:38 PM
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    You do understand the average price was $9000.00, not chicken feed. The people who attended were your above average income earners, white collar executives. Supposed to be smart, level-headed folks yet without much common sense.
    Who pays $9000.00 for a weekend, folks who have cash and don't care how they spend it.
    So no, they are not weak and gullible, they are folks with to much money and no common sense.
    According to the update in this article (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28923&start=30#p367577), the price for the Spiritual Warrior experience was $9,695. As many as 68 people were allegedly crammed into that sweat box.

    Within two hours, it became necessary to place a 911 call regarding two folk who had no pulse. By the time emergency help arrived, 19 additional folk also had to be transported to a variety of local hospitals, several even helicoptered off of the retreat site.

    This would be a roughly 31% "mishap" rate, presuming an accurate head count. Not due to an act of God; no thunderbolts struck the sweat lodge, no tornadoes carted anyone away. So who was responsible for this, eh? Are ya gonna blame the whole thing on the participants who signed up for this, the "folks with to
    • [/b] much money and no common sense?"
    Well if I was to take your train of thought, I would just blame James. I can't do that Ursus, why because their is a level of expectation that these participants have some common sense. They are above average wage earners so they must have some smarts.
    Title: Re: So, what's The Secret?
    Post by: Ursus on June 25, 2010, 05:58:30 PM
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    You do understand the average price was $9000.00, not chicken feed. The people who attended were your above average income earners, white collar executives. Supposed to be smart, level-headed folks yet without much common sense.
    Who pays $9000.00 for a weekend, folks who have cash and don't care how they spend it.
    So no, they are not weak and gullible, they are folks with to much money and no common sense.
    According to the update in this article (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28923&start=30#p367577), the price for the Spiritual Warrior experience was $9,695. As many as 68 people were allegedly crammed into that sweat box.

    Within two hours, it became necessary to place a 911 call regarding two folk who had no pulse. By the time emergency help arrived, 19 additional folk also had to be transported to a variety of local hospitals, several even helicoptered off of the retreat site.

    This would be a roughly 31% "mishap" rate, presuming an accurate head count. Not due to an act of God; no thunderbolts struck the sweat lodge, no tornadoes carted anyone away. So who was responsible for this, eh? Are ya gonna blame the whole thing on the participants who signed up for this, the "folks with to
    • [/b] much money and no common sense?"
    Well if I was to take your train of thought, I would just blame James. I can't do that Ursus, why because their is a level of expectation that these participants have some common sense. They are above average wage earners so they must have some smarts.
    I see. So... the more money you have or earn, the smarter you are? If I was to follow that train of thought, that kinda implies that ... the poorer you are, the dumber you must be. Maybe not.

    Disregarding the disposable income issue for the moment, just what ARE you implying here? That it is totally okay for any huckster to come up with any newage "spiritual" experience they want, regardless of any consequences or common sense safety issues, and regardless of whether or not they know what the heck they are doing, and that it is completely up to the participants to protect themselves?

    You state that there is "a level of expectation that these participants have some common sense." Isn't there also a level of expectation that the facilitators of these experiential exercises have common sense, if not more so, given that they claim to be the "professional experts," are paid handsomely for that expertise, and are the ones in charge of the whole affair?

    Why do you fault the participants for not having enough common sense, yet not the facilitators or owners of these LGATs?
    Title: Re: So, what's The Secret?
    Post by: Ursus on August 02, 2010, 10:59:29 AM
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Quote from: "Ursus"
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    You do understand the average price was $9000.00, not chicken feed. The people who attended were your above average income earners, white collar executives. Supposed to be smart, level-headed folks yet without much common sense.
    Who pays $9000.00 for a weekend, folks who have cash and don't care how they spend it.
    So no, they are not weak and gullible, they are folks with to much money and no common sense.
    According to the update in this article (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28923&start=30#p367577), the price for the Spiritual Warrior experience was $9,695. As many as 68 people were allegedly crammed into that sweat box.

    Within two hours, it became necessary to place a 911 call regarding two folk who had no pulse. By the time emergency help arrived, 19 additional folk also had to be transported to a variety of local hospitals, several even helicoptered off of the retreat site.

    This would be a roughly 31% "mishap" rate, presuming an accurate head count. Not due to an act of God; no thunderbolts struck the sweat lodge, no tornadoes carted anyone away. So who was responsible for this, eh? Are ya gonna blame the whole thing on the participants who signed up for this, the "folks with to
    • [/b] much money and no common sense?"
    Well if I was to take your train of thought, I would just blame James. I can't do that Ursus, why because their is a level of expectation that these participants have some common sense. They are above average wage earners so they must have some smarts.
    I see. So... the more money you have or earn, the smarter you are? If I was to follow that train of thought, that kinda implies that ... the poorer you are, the dumber you must be. Maybe not.

    Disregarding the disposable income issue for the moment, just what ARE you implying here? That it is totally okay for any huckster to come up with any newage "spiritual" experience they want, regardless of any consequences or common sense safety issues, and regardless of whether or not they know what the heck they are doing, and that it is completely up to the participants to protect themselves?

    You state that there is "a level of expectation that these participants have some common sense." Isn't there also a level of expectation that the facilitators of these experiential exercises have common sense, if not more so, given that they claim to be the "professional experts," are paid handsomely for that expertise, and are the ones in charge of the whole affair?

    Why do you fault the participants for not having enough common sense, yet not the facilitators or owners of these LGATs?
    Bumpity bump.
    Title: Re:
    Post by: psy on August 02, 2010, 11:16:50 AM
    Quote from: "Froderik"
    So essentially what sort of bullshit does it attempt to convey?
    Human potential, same as LifeSpring / Est / Resource Realizations / Premier Seminars / LifeSteps / Propheets...  Basically the idea that everything that's happened to you in your life is your fault (not just your actions which is reasonable, but also what is done to you).  Of course that means that if you can become "enlightened" into the viewpoint of the group you can do anything or go anywhere in life with sheer willpower.  The "Secret" teaches that if you're fat, all you have to do to become thin is to hang around exclusively with thin people.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book))
    Title: Re: "The Secret"
    Post by: Ursus on August 02, 2010, 12:45:54 PM
    Quote from: "psy"
    Quote from: "Froderik"
    So essentially what sort of bullshit does it attempt to convey?
    Human potential, same as LifeSpring / Est / Resource Realizations / Premier Seminars / LifeSteps / Propheets...  Basically the idea that everything that's happened to you in your life is your fault (not just your actions which is reasonable, but also what is done to you).  Of course that means that if you can become "enlightened" into the viewpoint of the group you can do anything or go anywhere in life with sheer willpower.  The "Secret" teaches that if you're fat, all you have to do to become thin is to hang around exclusively with thin people.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book))
    Corrected LINK (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_%28book%29)...
    Title: The Secret of Mass Delusion
    Post by: Ursus on August 02, 2010, 12:56:02 PM
    The Huffington Post
    Barbara Ehrenreich · New York Times bestselling author
    Posted: February 27, 2007 01:22 PM


    The Secret of Mass Delusion (http://http://www.huffingtonpost.com/barbara-ehrenreich/the-secret-of-mass-delusi_b_42212.html)

    The leaders of Delta Zeta - the sorority which just made national news by expelling all overweight and nonwhite members from its Depauw University chapter - must have read The Secret. In this runaway self-help bestseller, author Rhonda Byrne advises that you can keep your weight down by avoiding the sight of fat people. "If you see people who are overweight, do not observe them, but immediately switch your mind to the picture of you in your perfect body and feel it." Don't worry about calories, just get rid of that 150-pound sorority sister down the hall.

    Here's The Secret, in case you missed it: You can have anything you want simply by visualizing it intensely enough. I don't have to write this blog, I can simply visualize it already written - or could, if I'd bothered to read the whole book and finish the DVD. To be fair to Byrne, she does not suggest avoiding nonwhite people; in fact one of the teachers of "the secret" she cites is the African-American motivational speaker Lisa Nichols. The Delta Zeta leaders probably just thought: Why take a chance?

    Can you really get anything you want through some mysterious "Law of Attraction"? It may not be as easy as it seems. Take the case of Esther Hicks, spirit-channeler, motivational speaker, and co-author of a book entitled The Law of Attraction. Byrne had told Hicks she would have a starring role in the DVD of The Secret, but her face was never shown in the film's first cut (although her voice, channeling a group of spirits called "Abraham" was used throughout.) Hicks was furious and demanded that her voice, or Abraham's, also be excised from the DVD, which has now sold about 1.5 million copies.

    Possibly Hicks was just too fat for the film, or at least too dowdy. It's hard to judge her weight from a photo in the New York Times, which shows Hicks seated - eyes closed in channeling mode - inside her $1.4 million bus. But just underneath is a photo of a sylph-like Byrnes frolicking on a beach in a fur-trimmed jacket. From a Delta Zeta perspective, who would you rather look at?

    Hicks says she is not going to sue, and why should she? She could just use the Law of Attraction to reinsert herself back into the DVD. Or to deflect Byrne's profits into her own bank account. Or to take off 15 pounds and have them padded onto Byrne's tiny waist.

    If a leading proponent of the Law of Attraction cannot control a little thing like a DVD with her thoughts, then why are millions of Americans spending good money to find out how to use that Law to control the entire universe? The scary thing is that the subscribers to the Law aren't just a bunch of wistful, isolated, misfits. Read the reviews of the DVD of The Secret and you find that companies are beginning to impose it on their employees. An N.Van Buskirk writes that:


    And Steven E. Cramer, an employer, reports that "I had my sales staff watch 'The Secret,' and saw an immediate jump in morale, goals and production."

    Or check out the credentials of the "teachers" enlisted in The Secret. Most are well-known motivational speakers who claim to instruct such business heavy-weights as financial advisors, developers and a "master marketer." One of The Secret's teachers, Denis Waitley, includes on his website testimonials from Merrill Lynch, WorldCom, 3M, Dell Computers and IBM, among many others.

    Well, here's a little secret I'd like to share, channeled to me by Einstein, Newton and thousands of enlightenment thinkers: When the leaders of a major economy lapse into mysticism and come to believe they can accomplish things through their mental vibrations, without lifting a finger - then it's time to start thinking about going into subsistence farming on a remote compound in Idaho. I'll have the DVD out in no time.


    Copyright © 2010 HuffingtonPost.com, Inc.
    Title: Re: Re:
    Post by: DannyB II on August 02, 2010, 07:12:24 PM
    Quote from: "psy"
    Quote from: "Froderik"
    So essentially what sort of bullshit does it attempt to convey?
    Human potential, same as LifeSpring / Est / Resource Realizations / Premier Seminars / LifeSteps / Propheets...  Basically the idea that everything that's happened to you in your life is your fault (not just your actions which is reasonable, but also what is done to you).  Of course that means that if you can become "enlightened" into the viewpoint of the group you can do anything or go anywhere in life with sheer willpower.  The "Secret" teaches that if you're fat, all you have to do to become thin is to hang around exclusively with thin people.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book))

    OK so now this has to be the 18th explanation you have given on how you do life. When your talking about AA, it is pull yourself together, you are stronger then alcohol, God is not going to help you. When your talking about James Ray who works with adults you pretty much put the Adults on the same level as children in treatment centers. It is all there fault.
    Which is in essence your whole premise for being here Psy, first it was mommy and Daddy (they kicked you out of the house), then it was the Treatment Center, then it was I forgive my parents (they let you back in the house) and it remained I hate the Treatment Center. Now I hate AA, James Ray, Warrior Workshops ect.....
    Does this pretty much wrap it up in laymen terms.
    It's common sense Psy, your pissed off and anything resembling (whether it is accurate or not) Benchmark will be labeled, oppressive.
    Title: Re: Re:
    Post by: psy on August 02, 2010, 08:07:25 PM
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Quote from: "psy"
    Quote from: "Froderik"
    So essentially what sort of bullshit does it attempt to convey?
    Human potential, same as LifeSpring / Est / Resource Realizations / Premier Seminars / LifeSteps / Propheets...  Basically the idea that everything that's happened to you in your life is your fault (not just your actions which is reasonable, but also what is done to you).  Of course that means that if you can become "enlightened" into the viewpoint of the group you can do anything or go anywhere in life with sheer willpower.  The "Secret" teaches that if you're fat, all you have to do to become thin is to hang around exclusively with thin people.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book))

    OK so now this has to be the 18th explanation you have given on how you do life. When your talking about AA, it is pull yourself together, you are stronger then alcohol, God is not going to help you.t.

    You're missing my point.  People are 100% responsible for their own actions (drinking is an action).  People are not 100% responsible for what other people do to them.  That's the difference.  People who claim that they are in charge of everything in their lives are as absurd as the AA folk who claim they are in charge of nothing (or at the very least their own actions in relation to alcohol).  Other than the point you just brought up, AA has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.  While 12 step and human potential philosophies are often taught in conjunction in programs, they completely contradict rather than complement each other.  Getting people to accept two sets of contradictory dogma is one method cults and programs use to stop critical thinking.
    Title: Re: Re:
    Post by: SUCK IT on August 02, 2010, 08:36:02 PM
    Quote from: "psy"
    People are 100% responsible for their own actions (drinking is an action).  

    Science and all the professionals involved in the drug treatment industry would care to disagree. We get it, you don't believe in addiction, but it's a fact and has been studied for a long time. Why do you think people continue to smoke cigarettes even though they know it's horrible for their health? Denial, denial, denial, it's not just a river in Egypt.
    Title: Re: Re:
    Post by: DannyB II on August 02, 2010, 08:46:56 PM
    Quote from: "psy"
    Quote from: "DannyB II"
    Quote from: "psy"
    Quote from: "Froderik"
    So essentially what sort of bullshit does it attempt to convey?
    Human potential, same as LifeSpring / Est / Resource Realizations / Premier Seminars / LifeSteps / Propheets...  Basically the idea that everything that's happened to you in your life is your fault (not just your actions which is reasonable, but also what is done to you).  Of course that means that if you can become "enlightened" into the viewpoint of the group you can do anything or go anywhere in life with sheer willpower.  The "Secret" teaches that if you're fat, all you have to do to become thin is to hang around exclusively with thin people.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book))

    OK so now this has to be the 18th explanation you have given on how you do life. When your talking about AA, it is pull yourself together, you are stronger then alcohol, God is not going to help you.t.

    You're missing my point.  People are 100% responsible for their own actions (drinking is an action).  People are not 100% responsible for what other people do to them.  That's the difference.  People who claim that they are in charge of everything in their lives are as absurd as the AA folk who claim they are in charge of nothing (or at the very least their own actions in relation to alcohol).  Other than the point you just brought up, AA has absolutely nothing to do with this discussion.  While 12 step and human potential philosophies are often taught in conjunction in programs, they completely contradict rather than complement each other.  Getting people to accept two sets of contradictory dogma is one method cults and programs use to stop critical thinking.


    How are "Human Potential" and the "12 steps" a contradiction. Why would you even say such a thing. Why would a program want to teach both simultaneously, I don't think they would nullify each other but rather turn into to progression. I could see someone entering AA and sobering up and then get involved in workshops provided by HP.

    The 12 steps are teachings try to help you rid yourself of the fears, that have been holding you back from being successful in all facets of life. Human Potential focuses more on empowerment, creativity, assertive action ect....

    For the alcoholic who has been in the grips of drinking for years, Human Potential would be a bit much early on but as time went on, I could see this being offered.  

    Just my short take right now.
    Title: Re: Re:
    Post by: psy on August 02, 2010, 08:49:38 PM
    Quote from: "SUCK IT"
    Quote from: "psy"
    People are 100% responsible for their own actions (drinking is an action).  

    Science and all the professionals involved in the drug treatment industry would care to disagree.
    Depnding on how you would define "addiction", i believe in it.  If you call it bad habit, yes.  If you call it a disease, no.  Science agrees with me.  While some people may have a genetically greater desire (and even that's debatable) for certain substance that doesn't mean the desire (or any desire) overwhelms free will and takes away a person's responsibility for their actions.   The drug treatment industry disagrees because AA has been successful in prosthetizing itself into the treatment and public consciousness as the "only way".  Also, many in the treatment industry are former patients who now spend their time doing little more than proselytizing for a cult turned religion founded by an embezzling, philandering, drunk.

    Quote
    Why do you think people continue to smoke cigarettes even though they know it's horrible for their health?
    Because they desire the pleasure of a cigarette more than they desire good health.  It's a choice.  Sure it can be difficult to give up that pleasure (as habits can be) but there is no magical "disease" interfering with free choice.  Lots of people quit every day on their own and nicotine as a bad habit is a lot more difficult to quit than many other substances.  They quit on their own because common knowledge tells them it's posible.  Thankfully nobody founded a fucking religion around it and tricked the populous at large into thinking they needed to wacky meetings and do bizarre step-based rituals for the rest of their lives.
    Title: Re: Re:
    Post by: DannyB II on August 02, 2010, 09:29:43 PM
    Quote from: "psy"
    Quote from: "SUCK IT"
    Quote from: "psy"
    People are 100% responsible for their own actions (drinking is an action).  

    Science and all the professionals involved in the drug treatment industry would care to disagree.
    Depnding on how you would define "addiction", i believe in it.  If you call it bad habit, yes.  If you call it a disease, no.  Science agrees with me.  While some people may have a genetically greater desire (and even that's debatable) for certain substance that doesn't mean the desire (or any desire) overwhelms free will and takes away a person's responsibility for their actions.   The drug treatment industry disagrees because AA has been successful in prosthetizing itself into the treatment and public consciousness as the "only way".  Also, many in the treatment industry are former patients who now spend their time doing little more than proselytizing for a cult turned religion founded by an embezzling, philandering, drunk.


    OK are we talking about actions or addictions. I believe you can have a addiction and through proper action remove its core and render it mute.
    Though Pys, you must admit the addiction, dependency, bad habit, self destructive behavior for the proper source of action, to happen.
    This is what the 12 steps are teaching, period.
    Psy, it is folks like yourself who give AA this "sinister power".



    Quote
    Why do you think people continue to smoke cigarettes even though they know it's horrible for their health?
    Because they desire the pleasure of a cigarette more than they desire good health.  It's a choice.  Sure it can be difficult to give up that pleasure (as habits can be) but there is no magical "disease" interfering with free choice.  Lots of people quit every day on their own and nicotine as a bad habit is a lot more difficult to quit than many other substances.  They quit on their own because common knowledge tells them it's posible.  Thankfully nobody founded a fucking religion around it and tricked the populous at large into thinking they needed to wacky meetings and do bizarre step-based rituals for the rest of their lives.


    OK, did we really need to insult Bill, com'on he is dead already.
     
    That drunk revolutionized they way they deal with drunks. They used to give them Valium and let them drool it off, gave them shock treatments, lobotomizes and just straight jacket them for days. So hey, we have come a long ways.
    Relax Pys, folks like yourself and I can bring the 2nd revelation to AA, " It's a choice", "There is no magical "disease" interfering with (Free Choice)".

    I am more serious then you think. AA was supposed to be a place were you went to study/learn for one hour, then go back to your life. Many folks in AA have turned their local meeting into a hang out, a place for social activities. This is why we have all these negative connotations because a bunch of undisciplined folks who are used getting high, drinking, picking up dates and so forth, have a place to do this.
    I seldom attend meeting at AA clubhouses, I would rather go to a church. Seems like folks are less inclined to act out there.
    I like to see folks recover from a seemingly state of hopelessness and despair. That what I enjoy doing is giving back.

    Folks are lazy that want to believe in the "disease theory". I don't. I am about action, always have been. The 12 steps gave me a design for living that nobody else was able to do. Yes I was ready at 28 years old, finally. In my case my parents could have never taught me what AA did, I don't rule out a mentor, a priest, adopted father, uncle ect...could not have taught me probably the same principles of life. Though I seriously doubt that any of those I mentioned above could have shared similar experiences that a drug addict/alcoholic endured. So I am grateful that AA I both lessons available for me.
    Title: Re:
    Post by: DannyB11 on August 03, 2010, 11:46:39 AM
    my apologies Psy, again my multiple personality disorder is flaring again. I am powerless over it you see. I want to clarify that in my previous post when I said i enjoy "giving back" that really means "creating new minions". I have a secret: each new person i convince that they are an addict like myself - I gain their soul as a slave in the afterlife.
    Peace and Powerlessness
    Danny
    Title: James Ray & John Norcross debate THE SECRET, March 2007
    Post by: Ursus on August 03, 2010, 12:50:35 PM
    Here's a great little interview. The news anchor who interviewed these two ... later ended up also doing a fair amount of news coverage of the James 'Death' Ray sweat lodge debacle (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28923) just two and a half years later:

    CBSNewsOnline · March 01, 2007
    Experts Debate Self-Help Phenom 'The Secret' (CBS News)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn4EXAETBhA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zn4EXAETBhA)

    James Ray and John Norcross debate the merits and the demerits of 'The Secret'[/list]

    I couldn't help but notice James Ray's continual reference to "case studies," perhaps more accurately described as testimonials. These appeared to be pretty much the basis for Ray's claims of "scientific studies."

    John Norcross pointed out that case studies are not the same thing as clinical trials. There will always be cases of spontaneous remissions, etc. etc. Their co-occurrence does not prove causality. Sound familiar, anyone?  :D
    Title: The Key to the Law of Attraction
    Post by: Ursus on August 06, 2010, 07:40:55 PM
    There are actually six separate links to the same site within this older "blog" entry by James Arthur Ray ("CREATE HARMONIC WEALTH® IN ALL AREAS OF YOUR LIFE..."), which direct you to purchase the book, The Key: The Missing Secret for Attracting Anything You Want. That's high even for an obvious commercial!  

    -------------- • -------------- • --------------

    Tuesday, October 23, 2007
    The Key to the Law of Attraction (http://http://jamesaaray.blogspot.com/2007/10/key-to-law-of-attraction.html)

    Many people often question the Law of Attraction...


    Maybe you're even asking the same...

    My friend (and fellow costar of The Secret), Joe Vitale has a brand new book that addresses all of these questions and more. It's called The Key: The Missing Secret for Attracting Anything You Want (http://http://www.unlock-the-secret.com/).

    This phenomenal book explains what Joe regards as the fundamental error in virtually all self-help programs...

    In short:


    "Alignment" means your conscious and unconscious mind want the same thing.

    Most people are not in alignment with what they say they want, so they end up blaming their lack of results on everything from the movie they watched, the book they read, the therapist they saw, the self-help program they tried and so on.

    But the real problem isn't out there... it's inside and requires inner "clearing" work.

    How do you get in alignment so you can have, do, or be virtually anything? How do you get your conscious intent and your unconscious counter-intent to agree? How do you "get clear" once and for all?

    The Key (http://http://www.unlock-the-secret.com/) is the missing secret to knowing how to consciously co-create circumstance...the final piece to the puzzle.

    Get the book, as well as a bunch of free gifts, from this link: http://www.unlock-the-secret.com/ (http://www.unlock-the-secret.com/)

    If you know you can achieve more but can't seem to make it happen, The Key (http://http://www.unlock-the-secret.com/) reveals the psychological and unconscious limitations that are holding you back. It reveals ten proven ways to remedy this situation, aligning your conscious and unconscious beliefs once and for all.

    I highly recommend you get your hands on a copy right away. (http://http://www.unlock-the-secret.com/)

    By the way, The Key (http://http://www.unlock-the-secret.com/) is also available on audio, read by the man himself, Joe Vitale. Look for it on iTunes, Audible.com, Amazon.com or BN.com.

    Labels: book, vitale

    --------------  --------------

    Comments:

    George Thomas said ... (10/30/2007 7:02 PM):
    http://www.iwantmiracles.com/ (http://www.iwantmiracles.com/)[/list]
    Title: James Ray on the Today show (Feb 2007)
    Post by: Ursus on August 17, 2010, 02:38:05 PM
    Another older blog entry by James Ray ... with some interesting comments. Do these people really believe that testimonials qualify as "facts" and "science?" I wonder what these folks are thinking now (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28923)...

    -------------- • -------------- • --------------

    Tuesday, February 27, 2007
    James Ray on the Today show (http://http://jamesaaray.blogspot.com/2007/02/james-ray-on-today-show.html)
    In case you missed it, here's the link to James' interview on the Today show (http://http://video.msn.com/v/us/fv/msnbc/fv.htm??g=818592cb-f91f-4e4e-b2ff-58193eef66dc&f=05&fg=rss)... Hear what the skeptics have to say about The Secret (http://http://jamesray.com/thesecret) and how James responds.

    Labels: interview, media, the secret, today show


    Comments:

    Lori said ... (2/27/2007 12:22 PM):
    sasmbs said ... (2/27/2007 3:41 PM):
    IrmaMitton said ... (2/27/2007 5:37 PM):
    maryam said ... (2/27/2007 9:31 PM):
    Amy J + Energy = Bliss! said ... (2/28/2007 12:51 AM):
    GoodLifeDenver said ... (2/28/2007 7:50 AM):
    Christina said ... (2/28/2007 10:11 AM):
    Shelly said ... (3/06/2007 7:55 AM):
    Sheila said ... (4/23/2008 1:02 PM):
    Monica said ... (4/28/2008 10:45 AM):
    Madalyn said ... (2/25/2009 11:06 AM):
    This post has been removed by the author.[/list]
    Title: Barbara Ehrenreich's Bright-Sided Explores the Dark Side...
    Post by: Ursus on September 20, 2010, 01:59:51 PM
    Gotta love Barbara Ehrenreich!  :D

    -------------- • -------------- • --------------

    Religion Dispatches Magazine
    ESSAY
    October 11, 2009


    Barbara Ehrenreich's Bright-Sided Explores the Dark Side of Positive Thinking (http://http://www.religiondispatches.org/books/1849/barbara_ehrenreich%E2%80%99s_bright-sided_explores_the_dark_side_of_positive_thinking/)
    By Michelle Goldberg

    (http://http://www.religiondispatches.org/images/managed/Story+Image_bright_302.jpg) · Have a nice day.

    Bright-Sided: How The Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America
    by Barbara Ehrenreich
    Metropolitan Books (October 13, 2009)


    Last month, the front page of the New York Times style section ran an inadvertently depressing story (http://http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/fashion/20Guru.html?_r=1) about a group of young life coaches sometimes referred to as the "spiritual cowgirls." These hip young women, who have lots of charisma but no professional qualifications, are setting themselves up as ersatz gurus to their questing peers. They charge hundreds of dollars for sessions that combine new age atmospherics with the kind of power-of-positive thinking nostrums that made a phenomenon out of The Secret (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_(book)).

    "[N]ow there is a new role model for New York's former Carrie Bradshaws—young women who are vegetarian, well versed in self-help and New Age spirituality, and who are finding a way to make a living preaching to eager audiences, mostly female," reported the Times. One 31-year-old member of this eager audience is quoted praising her spiritual tutor Gabrielle Bernstein, a 29-year-old former nightclub publicist who lectures on using the "laws of attraction" to "manifest" one's desires. "A lot of women look up to her," the student says. "We need this guidance and we are searching for this guidance." Bernstein's audacity in marketing herself as a sage appears to be matched by the piteousness of her customers.

    The Times story is evidence of the timeliness of Barbara Ehrenreich's bracing, acidulous new book, Bright-Sided: How The Relentless Promotion of Positive Thinking Has Undermined America (http://http://www.barbaraehrenreich.com/buy_brightsided.htm). A broadside against exactly the sort of pabulum peddled by Bernstein, Bright-Sided reveals the historical roots and conservative uses of the positive thinking movement, showing how it encourages victim-blaming, political complacency, and a culture-wide flight from realism.

    "The flip side of positivity is... a harsh insistence on personal responsibility: if your business fails or your job is eliminated, it must be because you didn't try hard enough, didn't believe firmly enough in the inevitability of your success," writes Ehrenreich. "As the economy has brought more layoffs and financial turbulence to the middle class, the promoters of positive thinking have increasingly emphasized this negative judgment: to be disappointed, resentful, or downcast is to be a 'victim' and a 'whiner.' "

    It's satisfying, in a cranky contrarian way, to watch a writer as smart as Ehrenreich take aim at something as universally revered as dogged optimism. Yet while America's obsessive positivity might be risible, it initially seems like a stretch to describe it as dangerous. Nevertheless, Bright-Sided makes a surprisingly convincing case that positive thinking—which essentially teaches that one's thoughts, properly harnessed, can control physical events in the world—is often delusional and sometimes actively dangerous.

    Pentecostals call their version of positive thinking ideology "naming and claiming." New age types call it the "law of attraction," and business consultants peddle it in the form of quasi-mystical motivational exercises and paeans to visionary leadership. All of them promote a similar type of magical thinking, whose roots Ehrenreich traces back to the "New Thought" movement of the 1860s. "New Thought," Ehrenreich explains, emerged as a reaction to harsh Calvinism: "In the New Thought vision, God was no longer hostile or indifferent; he was a ubiquitous, all-powerful Spirit or Mind, and since 'man' was really Spirit too, man was coterminous with God... The trick, for humans, was to access the boundless power of Spirit and thus exercise control over the physical world."

    From there, Ehrenreich shows how positive thinking evolved into a creed of capitalist motivation, largely by way of Norman Vincent Peale. She writes of the truly terrifying extent to which positive thinking is enforced in corporate America, where it seems to constitute a form of self-enforced mind control. In 2007, she points out, an employee at a Utah-based company called Prosper Inc., which specializes in corporate motivation, was waterboarded as part of a business exercise—his colleagues were urged to fight for sales as hard as he'd fought for air.

    Rather than offering a refuge from the acquisitive creed of positive thinking, much of the evangelical world has embraced it, though not as egregiously as pentecostals have in the prosperity gospel, which holds that God rewards positive thinking with material riches. In one of the book's most effective, maddening chapters, Ehrenreich travels to prosperity preacher Joel Osteen's sprawling stadium of a church. For Osteen and preachers like him, she writes "success comes mainly through 'reprogramming' your mind into positive mental images, based on what amounts to the law of attraction: 'You will produce what you're continually seeing in your mind,' Osteen promises."

    In a society with as much desperation and instability as ours, such promises are cruelly tantalizing. Hence the tremendous success of prosperity preachers, life coaches, and quasi-metaphysical self-help authors like Rhonda Byrne, author of the aforementioned positive-thinking bestseller The Secret. Byrne once claimed that disasters like the 2006 tsunami can only happen to people who are "on the same frequency as the event," which appears to suggest that the victims brought catastrophe on themselves.

    Positive thinking, then, employs sticks as well as carrots. "It ends up imposing a mental discipline as exacting as that of the Calvinism it replaced—the endless work of self-examination and self-control or, in the case of positive thinking, self-hypnosis," writes Ehrenreich.

    Indeed, such magical thinking extends to our perception of sickness and health. Bright-Sided begins with a chapter on the relentlessly insipid, pink-beribboned culture surrounding breast cancer, which Ehrenreich was plunged into after being diagnosed with the disease. Based on a widespread but flawed belief that positive thinking can improve one's odds of survival, breast cancer patients are urged to eschew anger and find meaning and even uplift in the disease. "In the most extreme characterization, breast cancer is not a problem at all, not even an annoyance—it is a 'gift,' deserving of the most heartfelt gratitude," writes Ehrenreich.

    Those who can't or won't adopt such a sunny attitude may be ostracized or browbeaten. "[T]he sugar-coating of cancer can exact a dreadful cost," she writes. "First, it requires the denial of understandable feelings of anger and fear, all of which must be buried under a cosmetic layer of cheer. This is a great convenience for health workers and even friends of the afflicted, who might prefer fake cheer to complaining, but it is not so easy on the afflicted."

    At this point, it's easy to protest that there's a difference between superficial cheer and, say, a hard-won self-acceptance, or a sustaining hope for the future. The biggest flaw in Bright-Sided is that it fails to distinguish between different kinds of optimism, to differentiate positive thinking from the healthy cultivation of mindfulness or gratitude. Instead, Ehrenreich tends to write as if all work towards improving the self is a diversion from the real work of improving society. "The threats we face are real and can be vanquished only by shaking off self-absorption and taking action in the world," she writes.

    That's true to some extent, but the division between internal and external change isn't entirely neat. Some variant of determined optimism, after all, is needed for social change. How else could Gandhi believe that he could get the British to leave India, or Martin Luther King convince himself and his followers in the possibility of winning racial equality? Barack Obama became president in part by imbuing millions of individuals with the wild hope that they could change the world. Isn't that also a kind of positive thinking?

    Clearly, Ehrenreich is not counseling a widespread embrace of despair, but it still would have been useful to see her explain how galvanic, inspiring varieties of optimism vary from the willful self-delusion she decries. It's delicious to watch her demolish the smug pieties that rationalize so much American injustice, but even a committed pessimist can see that not all positivity is negative.

    Michelle Goldberg
    Michelle Goldberg, a contributing editor for Religion Dispatches, is the author of The Means of Reproduction: Sex, Power and the Future of the World (Penguin, 2009), and the New York Times bestseller Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism.



    © Religion Dispatches 2010.
    Title: Re:
    Post by: Anne Bonney on September 20, 2010, 02:43:46 PM
    I gotta get that book.  It covers it all!


    Friggin "life coaches".   ::)  ::)  ::)   (there's not enough eye rolls in the world)


    These hip young women, who have lots of charisma but no professional qualifications, are setting themselves up as ersatz gurus to their questing peers.


    And LGAT bullshit....

    In 2007, she points out, an employee at a Utah-based company called Prosper Inc., which specializes in corporate motivation, was waterboarded as part of a business exercise—his colleagues were urged to fight for sales as hard as he'd fought for air.



    "Preachers" building their own fortunes on the backs of their "flock".
    Ehrenreich travels to prosperity preacher Joel Osteen's sprawling stadium of a church.


    Pseudo-science and psycho-babble...

    In a society with as much desperation and instability as ours, such promises are cruelly tantalizing. (a glimpse inside the mind of a program parent and/or guru seeker.  See New Warrior Training, LGATs, "Discovery" seminars [errr, those are LGATs arent' they?]as well) Hence the tremendous success of prosperity preachers, life coaches, and quasi-metaphysical self-help authors like Rhonda Byrne, author of the aforementioned positive-thinking bestseller The Secret. Byrne once claimed that disasters like the 2006 tsunami can only happen to people who are "on the same frequency as the event," which appears to suggest that the victims brought catastrophe on themselves.

    And the "normie" crap I've heard at AA meetings about how they're 'grateful' to be alcoholics and feel badly for the "normies" because they haven't been graced with the "gifts" AA has.....

    "In the most extreme characterization, breast cancer is not a problem at all, not even an annoyance—it is a 'gift,' deserving of the most heartfelt gratitude," writes Ehrenreich.
    Title: Yes Here Is James Ray
    Post by: DannyB II on September 20, 2010, 11:00:51 PM
    Thought I'd give James Ray and Rhonda Byrne some space to breath here. Got some extreme opinions here. It seems life is taken so literally, never a chance to go out of the box, strict set of rules on expressing your opinions. Grown Ups are not responsible for there decisions, especially if they turn out bad.
    Ursus in case you think I missed the date of these comments, Nope, I did not, I still believe them today as I'm sure they would. A tragedy happened and it will pass as every other day.
    James having a $5,000,000.00 Bond as Anne pointed out is not all that uncommon for manslaughter charge according to some friends of mine, especially since 2 people died and there were aggravating circumstances with others.


    James Arthur Ray | Create wealth in all areas of your life: Financial, Relational, Intellectual, Physical and Spiritual.  
     
    Comments: 11 Click To View
    Quote
    Blogger Lori said ... (2/27/2007 12:22 PM) :

    I just finished watching the segment on The Secret and the Law of Attraction and these were my comments to NBC.

    I find it quite telling that the Today show chose to spend the 7 minutes the program allotted this topic, denigrating the Law of Attraction, focusing on it's so called harmful effects and reducing it to fluffy "positive thinking" or "simple desire", when it is so much more.

    They spent more time in the previous hour regurgitating the Anna Nicole Smith story for the seven thousandth time (can you say OVERDONE?) and investigating the fascination with celebrity in our country. What about those harmful effects? Not even mentioned. Telling, very telling.

    Yes, The Secret is new packaging. So what? "What the Bleep Do We Know" is a movie of the same concept with as many, if not more doctors, scientists, spiritual leaders etc., spouting the same facts and science, but because it did not reach the masses like the Rhonda Byrne movie, no one felt the need to gather a flurry of experts to dispute the validity. Oh wait, experts? A professor, a writer/editor of Newsweek and an uninformed psychiatrist, not exactly what I would call experts, but have it your way NBC, more power to you.

    It's sad that a movie that has the possibility of giving people power over their lives and taking them OUT of victim mode is so scary to the mainstream media. What are they afraid of? Did any of them even watch The Secret? Most likely not, as evidenced by Dr. Gail Saltz misleading statement insinuating that the movie claims if you think hard enough about not having cancer then you don’t have to go out and get chemotherapy or radiation. Absolutely not even close to what the movies states and she and Matt could not have misconstrued the message of the movie more. Why she felt the need to cut off James to spew this nonsense is unimaginable. Dr. Saltz seems to want to keep people in victim mode by telling them that what happens to them is not related to the thoughts, beliefs and feelings they are sending out.

    Thankfully I give the people more credit than Dr. Saltz does. I am confident that anyone who actually watches the movie will see through her total misunderstanding of these concepts. The real fact is whether one is thinking "have cancer" or "not have cancer" the fact that one is thinking "cancer" at all is the real issue. What you focus on expands. That is fact. Watch it occur in the negative as much as in the positive.

    The movie never claims to heal cancer by positive thinking. "Secret Teacher" Bob Proctor clearly states "Let the doctors worry about the disease while you focus on health and well being." To mislead the public by stating that The Secret advises positive thinking as the cure of disease or the cure of any woe is downright despicable and misleading. And the fact that media outlets (Larry King and CNN are also guilty of this) insist upon describing the Law of Attraction as mere positive thinking is infuriating. Anyone with half a brain could watch the movie and understand this is far from the case.

    Thank God for people like Oprah and Ellen who give The Secret the time and explanation that it deserves. The world is transforming and you can't stop the evolution of consciousness. But you can stop viewers from tuning into your show. This one just did. And I have a lot of friends and family. Shame on you NBC and the Today show.

    Whether you think you can or whether you think you can't - either way you are RIGHT. THAT is the Law of Attraction.

    Sincerely,
    Lori Petro
    Actor, Educator, Mom and Powerful Human happily attracting parking spots wherever I go.


    Blogger sasmbs said ... (2/27/2007 3:41 PM) :

    It seems the press continues their habit of picking out parts of a statement and representing it as the whole in order to shift the meaning of the message. In this case they have failed in their attempts to prevent TRUTH from reaching the public.

    James congratulations on standing up for TRUTH and continuing to speak the facts.

    As you have said "truth is timeless" and the truth will feel like the truth to those who are willing to listen.

    I continue to appreciate your commitment and your courage.

    Namaste.


    Blogger IrmaMitton said ... (2/27/2007 5:37 PM) :

    James, the fact that you could so calmly, gracefully, and eloquently speak up for your convictions in that hostile environment just shows how much you are a master of everything you teach. How sad that the other participants were so determined to discredit Rhonda's work and all the Universal Principles it contains. Thank you for taking the time again to spread the Secret. You are such a brilliant emissary of love and joy! Peace always.


    Blogger maryam said ... (2/27/2007 9:31 PM) :

    Interesting.of cours Dr. Gail what ever would say that ,think about it when people start understanding the Law of Attraction,there wouldn't be so many client for her.By the way Dr. Gail ,next time you appear on TV ,please get a book and study a little ,so you can at least argue like a adult .
    James, I'm so thank full to have a teacher like you.Cod bless you and keep up amazing work.
    Maryam from seattle


    Blogger Amy J + Energy = Bliss! said ... (2/28/2007 12:51 AM) :

    Thank you for posting this. I missed it!

    Oh my! The Doc is quite the skeptic! More than that, she is radiates shutdowness and negativity. I noticed I didn't feel any joy radiating from her nor was her physical carriage one of joy.

    James you did brilliantly with the little time they allowed you to say anything without being interupted.

    The world will get what the world will get from this interview, the Newsweek coverage (boy did the Newsweek writer radiate grumpy negativity!)as well as The Secret. The world is waking up to the truth of WHO is really here!

    All Love,
    Amy


    Blogger GoodLifeDenver said ... (2/28/2007 7:50 AM) :

    I was wondering when the naysayers would appear. Here they are. It's okay. We've been co-existing for centuries and enlightening the planet anyway. Rock on, James.


    Blogger Christina said ... (2/28/2007 10:11 AM) :

    Thanks so much for posting the interview. I belong to the Abraham-Hicks Yahoo group, and folks were talking you and the interview today --- so I'm thankful to be able to view it for myself.

    First off, I want to say one big 'way to go James'!!! That you stuck in there despite Rhonda not being there (for whatever reason). And that you are playing in the big leagues with this. The Today Show no less. Congrats on hitting some of your own personal goals (Oprah, Larry King, etc). Good on you! Very inspirational.

    Secondly, I'm just glad that someone (James!) who has been preparing for this for quite some time, is now prepared enough to handle these kinds of hot seats. You did a great job ... I felt the interview ended on a 'to be continued kind of note'. It was starting to get into a juicy discussion, with interesting points on either side. Things that need to be hashed out so folks can really get what LOA is truly about.

    Even though the angle was obviously a little skewed from the big biz / media bias, James did an admirable job in holding his own. And was respectful ... something I think is very important to demonstrate in all of this. It is ok to have different beliefs. To discuss these ideas with civility.

    It is really a different paradigm that LOA is about. The doctor even saying 'people focusing on not getting cancer' ... nope, she doesn't get it. You won't get any where by focusing on what you don't want.

    Ahhhhh, so great that these kinds of conversations and debates are going on. Obviously its difficult to fit anything into 30 second sound bites ... especially what is really being said with LOA.

    Yes, The Secret has its flaws or weak points ... what doesn't. However its playing a wonderful role in creating debate and introducing people to some different ways of thinking ... outside of our current victim consciousness that seems to reign so supreme.

    Again, congrats James. I look forward to seeing the next morphs and shifts that the LOA path takes ... and thank you for your public role in helping these things unfold.

    In gratitude. Christina Merkley


    Blogger Shelly said ... (3/06/2007 7:55 AM) :

    The really funny thing about all the "neigh sayers and skeptics" is that even their so called negative input and focus actually brings more attention and energy to The Secret and expands the consciousness on the planet. That is the beauty of the LOA. Pretty darned cool if you ask me!

    The only way the "skeptics" (aka Source's Co-Creators) can reverse this phenomenon is for them to embrace the principles and focus on the opposite..... which would mean they would have to endorse the message in the film. Win-win.

    Supporters or skeptics....it's all good! Really.


    Blogger Sheila said ... (4/23/2008 1:02 PM) :
    How's your butt?

    That seat was so hot it was smoking!

    Here's my comment in a nutshell. Truth is in the eye of the beholder. Science or no science, real or not real, I choose to believe because my life has shown the results of removing limiting beliefs. I am finally becoming the example of possibility I always knew I could be but didn't know how.

    That woman was sent in to play devil's advocate and that is such a good thing, because every time a person stands up for their beliefs it reinforces the passion behind them.

    You eased elegantly through that one and I am grateful everyday for this fantastic journey!

    Well Done.


    Blogger Monica said ... (4/28/2008 10:45 AM) :
    James, you are truly an amazing amazing being. Anyone else would have crumbled in that seat under so much negativity, pressure and impudence. You were the star of the interview even though some inconsiderate individuals kept cutting you off. I was blown away at how you rebutted with those psychology quotations - you were so much more informed than a "medical doctor." I am so grateful to have a guru that practices what he preaches. I am so grateful to have you as my teacher. I remember your words every day. Thank you for changing my life.
    [/b]
    Title: 2008 MISS AMERICA LIVE! Puts the Spotlight on National Judge
    Post by: Ursus on April 06, 2012, 12:15:32 AM
    Somehow I neglected to post this following gem from James Ray's blog re. his stint as a Miss America pageant judge (his having been an expert — or at least recognized as such — in the field of "Leadership Development"), color emphasis added:

    -------------- • -------------- • --------------

    James Ray International, Inc.
    Thursday, January 03, 2008

    PRESS RELEASE: 2008 Miss America Live! Puts the Spotlight on National Judges Saturday, January 26, 2008 (http://http://jamesaaray.blogspot.com/2008/01/press-release-2008-miss-america-live.html)

    PRESS RELEASE: 2008 MISS AMERICA LIVE! Puts the Spotlight on National Judges Saturday, January 26, 2008

    Live from Planet Hollywood, Las Vegas, on TLC

    ATLANTIC CITY, N.J., Jan. 3 /PRNewswire/ -- 2008 MISS AMERICA LIVE! promises to be an exciting event with the announcement of the strikingly diverse panel of national judges. This year's panel of seven esteemed judges includes a legendary Olympic athlete, an edgy fashion designer, Hollywood's hottest casting director, the editor of a trendy magazine, a successful entrepreneur, one of CNN's most popular newscasters and today's favorite fitness trainer. They will evaluate the contestants from the preliminaries through the final night of competition, which will be premiering live from Planet Hollywood Resort and Casino in Las Vegas on Saturday, January 26, 2008 at 8:00 PM ET live/PT tape-delayed, exclusively on TLC. Plus, this year America will get to play the part of judge as TLC introduces Miss America: America's Choice, an online competition designed to choose the 16th finalist.

    The judges were announced by Sam Haskell, Chairman of the Board for the Miss America Organization (MAO), Art McMaster, President and CEO of MAO, and Anthony Eaton, Producer of 2008 MISS AMERICA LIVE! This year's panel of judges is comprised of experts in each of the fields that a young woman must excel in, in order to be named Miss America. Miss America must be beautiful, talented, intelligent and well-spoken, a leader, have a commitment to her community, be contemporary in her style and fashion -- a relatable and individual "it girl" who can connect with today's modern woman, as well as being physically fit. To determine who will be Miss America 2008 the following panel of judges has been selected:


    This year, America has the opportunity to select a surprise 16th pageant finalist with Miss America: America's Choice, an online competition that allows viewers to vote for their favorite Miss America contestant. Fans can vote by visiting http://www.tlc.com/missamerica (http://www.tlc.com/missamerica) beginning on Friday, January 4, after the first episode of TLC's new reality special, MISS AMERICA: REALITY CHECK and through the final episode on Saturday, January 26 (3 AM EST). The contestant with the most votes, who is not already included as a top 15 finalist, will be chosen as "America's Choice," and be revealed during the MISS AMERICA LIVE! finale.

    MISS AMERICA: REALITY CHECK premieres January 4, at 10 PM (ET/PT) and airs consecutive Friday nights leading up to the MISS AMERICA LIVE! finale on January 26. Hosted by Michael Urie, the four-part series is designed to get these 52 state winners to forget everything they've learned in "pageant schools" over the years ... the walk ... the talk ... the hairspray ... and prepare them for the final competition to select Miss America 2008 ... the relatable "it girl" who can connect with today's modern woman.

    SOURCE Miss America Organization
    Labels: media, miss america, press release


    Copyright © 2009 James Ray International, Inc.
    Title: Comments: 2008 MISS AMERICA LIVE! Puts the Spotlight on...
    Post by: Ursus on April 09, 2012, 07:59:58 PM
    Comments (http://http://jamesaaray.blogspot.com/2008/01/press-release-2008-miss-america-live.html) left for the above blog entry, "PRESS RELEASE: 2008 MISS AMERICA LIVE! Puts the Spotlight on National Judges Saturday, January 26, 2008 (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=21057&p=415666#p415666)" (Jan. 03, 2008; James Ray International, Inc.), comments which are especially haunting in light of the tragic deaths which occurred later at one of James Ray's sweat lodge events:


    Sky said ... (1/06/2008 11:50 AM) :
    Lise said ... (1/07/2008 4:53 AM) :
    Sky said ... (1/07/2008 2:18 PM) :
    C_Hope said ... (1/08/2008 11:05 AM) :
    Daniel Schutzsmith said ... (1/09/2008 2:51 PM) :
    Amy J + Energy = Bliss! said ... (1/14/2008 6:09 AM) :
    muskrat said ... (1/15/2008 7:47 AM) :
    Gail said ... (1/15/2008 10:39 AM) :
    C_Hope said ... (1/15/2008 12:27 PM) :


    Copyright © 2009 James Ray International, Inc.
    Title: Re: "What the Bleep?" and "The Secret"
    Post by: Ursus on April 11, 2012, 11:22:55 AM
    So... going back to the original post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=21057#p252818) in this thread... Hyde School, fwiw, has relatively significant connections of one sort or another to both "What the Bleep?" as well as "The Secret," which makes me kinda wonder 'bout the original intent of the poster who started this discussion quite some time ago.

    "The Secret" appears to have especially fired up the imaginations of those involved in the marketing of Hyde. And the first aforementioned Hyde alumnus (who was involved with the Ramtha cult for at least ten years) used some of these same methods and principles to market the Ramtha propaganda piece, "What The Bleep."

    I'm not sure which came first.

    Here's evidence of one such Hyde marketing campaign (among many) from Hyde's Fall 2004 Alumni Newsletter, mentioning Laurie (Gauld) Hurd and Duncan McCrann (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=22969&p=357421#p357421):


    SHARE THE SECRET (http://http://web.archive.org/web/20040716054403/hyde.edu/materialuploads/HydeAlumniNews2004.pdf)

    Recently, Laurie Hurd and Duncan McCrann announced the launch of a major campaign to increase awareness about Hyde. The help of alumni in the form of time, energy, enthusiasm, and creative thinking is needed. Simply put, it's a new world for Hyde and other New England boarding schools. The recent proliferation of new educational options for students and families has created a challenge for boarding school admissions, a challenge that we at Hyde are eager to face with your help.

    As alumni, you don't have to be sold on the impact of Hyde on families. There is little doubt that if more families knew about Hyde, they would pursue enrollment. In some ways, Hyde is the best-kept secret in American education! It is where hope is restored and potential is realized.

    This fact led to a new campaign that will "ignite" conversation and interest about Hyde, a venture where everyone connected to Hyde is passing along the Hyde "secret" to people they meet everyday—school counselor, minister, friend, therapist, colleague—to ultimately transform the mystery into knowledge.

    In the coming months, you will hear more about Share the Secret. By working together to spread the word about Hyde we will reach families that could benefit from what our schools offer, and have some fun in the process. Please contact Laurie Hurd at 207-443-7105, [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]), to pass along any campaign development ideas.[/list]