Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Anonymous, first I?d like to say that true Christ warriors witness under their real names, never afraid to bring His message and attach their name to it as the witness of His actions in human terms.  Your anonymity is indicative of the hypocrisy of many organized religions (Mormonism included) as you judge others and spew alleged wrongdoings from your undercover hiding place.  If you are truly a representative of Christ, don?t be a coward, but rather show your face for all to see.

You say, "You think by attacking a religion or programs for kids that teaches at its core the time honored values of virtue, honesty, and self ?mastery, that some how you are the bearers of freedom. . . You are in fact the Ministers of the secular Humanism; the religion of victim-hood and self-destruction.?

Again, your comments reek with hypocrisy and double speak.  Your church and the youth programs may portray teachings of virtue, honesty and self-mastery on the surface.  However, the truth comes out in people?s actions of domination, control, abuse and manipulation.  If you are really of Christ, take your blinders off so that you may truly see what these kids are saying about actions that they have witnessed.  I would be happy to relate to you my personal observations as staff.

The problem with establishing virtue, honesty and self-mastery is that it?s a scale of what?s right and wrong.  As humans, this translates to one human telling/judging another human by what they believe to be right.  The hypocrisy is that the Mormons? heritage revolves around a public society that tried to instill their standards on the Mormons by making them conform to one wife for one husband, equal rights for both partners in a marriage, and no sex with minor children.  The Mormons, unable and unwilling to conform, moved west to Utah in search of their freedom to practice their secular (worldly) beliefs which often resulted in their own victims and destruction of others? individuality, independence, and self-esteem.

When I speak in this forum about Mormons, I only relate my firsthand experience with them after more than 50 some years of living amongst various cultures.  As a woman, it?s particularly hard to work and live with most of the Mormon men due to their belief that men are somehow better than women.  You will say that Mormon men don?t believe in this concept, however, again, their actions speak louder than your words.

To quote you, ?These isms (addictions) are the ever-present fruits of the so-called freedom from any standards or authority that you all seem to profess and promote here. Most of the writers here profess this slavery to addiction and abdication of personal accountability as ?freedom? like the hippies did in the 60?s as they indulged themselves in a culture of addiction to there own demise.?

Here you take a pedestal of better-than-thou, purportedly having removed all of your isms in your human existence.  Perhaps you have, but I really doubt it or you would no longer need to be on this human plane of existence.  At any rate, the Mormons certainly do have their ?isms? or addictions, as you say.  They may not drink coffee due to caffeine, but they love their Mountain Dews full of the same stuff first thing in the morning and all day long.  Every Mormon home and most Mormon grocery stores that I?ve been in are filled with chips, sweets, junk food, and sugar sweetened products without the choice of natural or unsweetened.  Diabetes is also a Mormon curse.  

I was one of those awful hippies that supposedly run amok from addiction which, by your statement, ended in my own demise.  For your information, me and a whole bunch of others are still alive and kicking today, and we?ve achieved great and wondrous successes, and we?re in mass numbers, called the Baby Boomers.

This statement of yours is pretty funny:  ?The ?after all you can do? part requires one to cross ones self amidst ones own vices and human failings and deny yourself and take up your cross as Christ taught and strive for a higher standard.?  It?s funny because this is exactly what the participants in this forum are asking you to do ? clean house in the Mormon church and instill Christ principles amongst your disciples.  

Or, you can wait, lie about it, and try to keep it a BIG FAT SECRET like the Catholic church, and then come up with some more lies and dance around on the hot coals when the truth is revealed.  For revealed it shall be.

As you say, there are many paths to Christ, and this is called man?s free will.  It takes many different roads for all of the different people to get to Him.  Some roads are straight and direct, some are filled with hair-raising bends, curves and turns onto the back roads.  Whichever road you take, you build and learn along the way from your experiences.  The experiences provide the foundation of the future you.  

It?s not trite or insignificant that these people are in this forum talking about some very major problems in a fast growing industry with virtually no oversight, standards, or civil rights protections.  In fact, I tend to believe that within this forum are the leaders of a national movement and from their perspectives and experiences, they will change things in America for the youth care industry.  As leaders, they will be the bearers of ?freedom? for future American youths.

Rather than trying to portray yourself as Christ and speak for Him, why not lead someone to Christ from within, where He always resides.  He can speak for himself to His disciples and does not need you, the middleman, the Church to represent him from your lofty self-imposed throne.

Toni Thayer
http://www.spirithelps.com

I live in Utah, but no, I'm not Mormon.  I don't know of any Red Cliff Camp facility in this state.  However, right now, some UK filmmakers are here at Turn-About Ranch filming English kids in the program.  They screened some 5,000 applications.  

I think staff will all be acting just perfectly in front of the cameras.  And all of this glorification comes after sexual abuse reports that were quietly swept under the carpet.

No, this facility is not owned by the Mormons, it's owned by "corporate offices" in Los Angeles, Aspen Education Group (education, what a fraud that is as part of their name).

Toni

Turn-About Ranch, Escalante, Utah is just down the road from my house.  It's one of the bigger employers here now that the Fed gov has shut down all the rest of our economy (they're trying to drive us out of this little town to claim it for their namesake town of the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument which was stolen by Pres Clinton in 1996).  

In one of my more desperate times earlier this year, I went to work for them.  That lasted almost 2 months when I quit after turning in male staff wrestling with female students, the same male staff taking females off to work alone, and the same male staff trying to brainwash me into believing that I was coward after I had seen and heard all of this.  First, I heard it from a female student who was interrupted mysteriously by the male staff who appeared out of nowhere as she talked to me, and then, just an hour later, God set up a scenario which allowed me to see it all with my own eyes.  

I was at their Roundy facility just as a substitute 'cause someone went home sick and I didn't normally work there.  The place felt so evil, I had seen and heard so much that I just wanted out.  I sat down on the porch and prayed for God to get me out of there, and He did.  Within 15 minutes of my prayer my supervisor was radioing me that my replacement was on their way and to return to the Barn where I normally worked.

I turned all of this in to the office, originally thinking that they'd take care of the problem.  They didn't, they gave me a gold token and basically said, now shut up.  So, then I quit and turned 'em into the Sheriff's Office, CPS, and their state licensor lady.  All of these offices were originally aghast with my reports (particularly since a duct tape incident happened at Roundy the exact same day as I turned in my report).  All 3 of these "protective" offices closed their cases within just days . . . no investigation at all even though they individually had said they would do an extensive investigation, get to the bottom of it, and they would force people to talk.  Yeah, right, Mormons cover other Mormons' backs.  I know, for the state of Utah, it's part of the "new economy" they want vs. the old economy they've shut down.

So, professionally before I moved to this little berg I was a business consultant and I saw plenty at Turn-About that needed correcting, just from their liability standpoint and implementing procedures to cover their asses from a lawsuit.

Now, I'm a researcher and writer who exposes the programs involved in the takeover of the world by the One World Order geeks -- the Trilateral Commission, the Council on Foreign Relations, the United Nations and all of their affiliates of nonprofits that do a lot their dirty work for them.

For 15 years, I was one of northern Arizona's main environmental leaders.  I'm used to raising the alarm and actively pursuing change.  I got into enviro activism due to a prayer about my concern over haz waste burning near our home and a promise that I would do whatever it took to beat it.  From this daily prayer, came project after project landing in my lap.  

So, my daily prayer turned into I would do whatever work God needed done.  I naturally ask Him for help along the way and for what I need to get the job done.

More here on my webpage, if you're interested:
http://www.spirithelps.com/about_us.htm

Yes, the kids need someone to talk to, but as staff there, I couldn't get them to trust me much, even though while raising my own kids, I was the neighborhood mom for everyone 'cause the other moms were never home.  It was always a priority for me to be home, I changed my life so that I could fit more into my children's needs.  Today, my kids are grown, but we have a very strong bond between us, and we're open and honest with each other.  I never lied to my kids either, I try to walk my talk!

Toni

Nope, he spent the night through rain and most of the next day out.  They caught him in town.  He escaped (I'll use that term 'cause I'm seeing these facilities more and more as prisons with no civil or legal rights) just before nightfall, so, yeah, they took some of the kids and drove the roads, but not enough time before dark for him to get to any roads.

Two others on horses and one on foot tracked him til dark, then returned.  Staff drove the roads all night which is pretty crazy 'cause all he would have to do is see their headlights coming and ditch behind some bushes til they passed.  So, I assume he returned to the main road during the night and made it the 13 miles or so to town on foot, I should say, on barefoot.

Pretty crazy.  I would never, ever have placed my kid in these kinds of circumstances, totally out of their loop.  The parents told TAR that he would run, yet, he was left alone, duh . . .

Toni

I think it's part of the One World Order plan.  They have to bring America down before they can get the rest of the world.

Toni

It's now an hour after sunset and Turn-About Ranch has a boy who ran at 5:30 still out there in the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument, alone, barefoot and on his own.  This is some of the roughest desert on Earth, canyons, straight down cliffs, no roads.  It's getting close to freezing at night, depending on where he is.

I went looking but that's like a needle in a haystack.  Turn-About has one guy on horseback (probably back by now, though) and another on foot (I know he was coming back) and the rest in vehicles along the main roads.  But it's a heck of a long way between those canyons and the main roads.

I'm praying.  If anyone else is so inclined, I'm sure he could use it right now.  I feel so helpless in this whole awful mess of an industry.

Toni

Please note that I am not related to any of the Thayer facilities !!  (well, maybe back hundreds of years, but I don't know 'em)

Toni