Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Facility Question and Answers => Topic started by: sad on June 02, 2010, 08:44:16 PM
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http://www.traumacenter.org/clients/walden.php (http://www.traumacenter.org/clients/walden.php)
Any info on any of these places?
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Hrm. All of these places have the distinction of not being mentioned on Fornits, and the parent company Justice Resource Institute hasn't been brought up on this site before. No mention of NATSAP, no level system, no mention of any of the disturbing dog-whistles we've seen here. All of these are positive signs.
http://www.traumacenter.org/clients/Walden_brochure.pdf (http://www.traumacenter.org/clients/Walden_brochure.pdf)
Wow, info on this place is sparse. They seem to be following something of a medical model but it's hard to tell what they mean by certain things.
As far as mental health facilities go this looks like one of the best of the lot.
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This is not the type of program usually spoken about on this site. I can only give my personal opinion, of course, but it seems like a decent place to me.
And it says that parents can get involved in activites thye choose, so that keeps you in the loop. I would actually say from what I gather, this is an entirely different breed of program, from TC's for example. It is not tough love.
It seems very professional. One of the things that I like the best about it, is that they refer to the child as their client!!!!!
I don t like that they keep using the word programming, but I would say that at the very least, it s getting more info.. talking to a director... etc.
Also, if your child is sufferring from Post traumatic stess disorder, you may want to look into EFT practitioners in your area. I have heard from many who are honest, about miraculous results with this.
Paul
Also check out "The Power of Letting Go" by Patricia Carrington
The Sedona Method can also be helpful with this sort of thing...
Also, check out the book, " Focussing" by Eugene Gendlin, if you like..
All good resources for this sort of thing.
Hope your girl gets well.. Love goes a long way too..
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Just do me one favor, Sad..
Please don t trust everybody. there are snake-oil programs out there, and they are very good at sucking parents in and sounding professional. It is what they do.. It is how they make their living. They are as skilled as any politicians, and they are very good at using guilt and other "handles" within people to get them to do what they want.
I advice caution.. Be careful... A person would like to think that there would not be so much dishonesty in an industry like child care, but there is, and all you have to do is browse this site to get a taste of it. Take your time, and draw your own conclusions. Everyone has advice, but it is your child.
Paul
The reason people come off so harshly towards programs on these boards, is because they have been fucked by them.. they have been victim of them
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The reason people come off so harshly towards programs on these boards, is because they have been fucked by them.. they have been victim of them
Except me. I'm just here to help get rid of a certain flavor of evil.
And I'm not seeing that evil here at all. These people strongly look like they're doing good, or at least trying to. Affiliation with genuine mental trauma centers, family involvement, and although some of the stuff on that page looks a little new-agey, at least they understand what neuroscience is.
There's always the chance that they could be the next Peninsula Village, but it really doesn't look like it from here.
So yeah. If you really have to send her anywhere, send her to one of JRI's.
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I came onto this site because I am aware of the cruelty that many children have sadly and unfortunately experienced at certain facilities. It is a crime of immeasurable proportions! And the criminals should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law! I am here to find out which places to stay far away from. I am not easily pursuaded into anything, i take my time researching and researching and speaking with graduates of these programs.
My kid's situation is quite different, it's not that I am sending her anywhere; she has conflict of loyalty betweeen her dad and myself. complicated situation. Dad hospitalized her cuz she was so deperessed living with him (this is what she stated to docs), and she doesnt want to come home to me cuz then she will 'lose' dad's 'love'. complicated indeed.
Dad hospitalized her and she wanted to remain in the hospital; she wanted to live there. This kid does no drugs, no crime, no addictions, but an innocent child victim.
The hospital referred her to the wilderness place so she can work through this loyalty issue. she also feels she's at fault, that because of her 'misbehavior' dad and mom split up. Of course it's not true, but she's living with this nightmarish guilt and conflict of loyalty and has been abused physically and psychologically. dear her.
She's had multiple traumas and I certainly don't want her to be in a 'tough love' program. she needs a lot of nurturance and empathy, not tough love.
Thanks all for your input; i will sort things out and tease things apart and hope for a successful outcome.
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:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop:
Oh holy crap you do not want a girl that innocent involved in any of this shit at all. A hospital referred her to a wilderness program?!
*shakes head in disbelief*
Maybe that's why they did it- because they knew of a place she'd definitely want to come home from...
Bring her home, put her in front of the computer, and get your damn stopwatch, because I can get some friends together and we can teach this girl self-interest at speeds usually reserved for certain Hispanic mice and blue hedgehogs. Teaching a teenage girl self-interest- Christ I have a hard time even typing that, that's like teaching fish how to swim.
But even if you don't trust me, get her the hell out of there anyway, because a wilderness program that makes money on keeping her there + her problem being not wanting to come home = THINGS WILL GET WORSE.
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I came onto this site because I am aware of the cruelty that many children have sadly and unfortunately experienced at certain facilities. It is a crime of immeasurable proportions! And the criminals should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law! I am here to find out which places to stay far away from. I am not easily pursuaded into anything, i take my time researching and researching and speaking with graduates of these programs.
My kid's situation is quite different, it's not that I am sending her anywhere; she has conflict of loyalty betweeen her dad and myself. complicated situation. Dad hospitalized her cuz she was so deperessed living with him (this is what she stated to docs), and she doesnt want to come home to me cuz then she will 'lose' dad's 'love'. complicated indeed.
Dad hospitalized her and she wanted to remain in the hospital; she wanted to live there. This kid does no drugs, no crime, no addictions, but an innocent child victim.
The hospital referred her to the wilderness place so she can work through this loyalty issue. she also feels she's at fault, that because of her 'misbehavior' dad and mom split up. Of course it's not true, but she's living with this nightmarish guilt and conflict of loyalty and has been abused physically and psychologically. dear her.
She's had multiple traumas and I certainly don't want her to be in a 'tough love' program. she needs a lot of nurturance and empathy, not tough love.
Thanks all for your input; i will sort things out and tease things apart and hope for a successful outcome.
Look, Sad, Clearly your daughter would not do well in a program environment. She seems sensitive and is reaching out for help and needs family right now, not some strangers to straighten her out and whip her into shape. As far as you have stated your daughter hasn’t done anything to indicate she is at-risk. She is depressed and doesn’t want to be around you or her father right now.
You and your husband should gather yourselves up and bring your daughter into family therapy (with a good therapist) to see what would be best for her (not the family). You are only seeing (reporting)what is going on on the surface.
Wilderness is great for taking a child out of their toxic environment for a few weeks to discover what is going on and is fairly benign, but there is no long term healing that takes place there. (maybe a quick recalibration for those kids who need it and/or redirection).
If you are truly sincere in your posts you should consider telling us more of what led up to you posting here, otherwise your story doesn’t really add up. Something isn’t right, in my opinion.
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her depression led to a suicide attempt. and she stopped eating and drinking for days. Clearly she is in acute pain but she does not have the communication skills, instead she acts out, in depressive catatonic situations. and in suicide attempts. she would not sit in the same room as me, so family therapy is out for now. she will protect dad at all costs.
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her depression led to a suicide attempt. and she stopped eating and drinking for days. Clearly she is in acute pain but she does not have the communication skills, instead she acts out, in depressive catatonic situations. and in suicide attempts. she would not sit in the same room as me, so family therapy is out for now. she will protect dad at all costs.
You really, REALLY do not want your suicidal daughter in a wilderness program.
Cliffs are.. how should I put this..? A popular choice.
Similarly, a depressive catatonic who stops fluid intake in an environment with heat exposure and dehydration? I'll just let you visualize what can go wrong there.
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All right, in lieu of a few "oh my god did he just say that" minutes of psychological bridge-burning, I'm going to offer THIS as a solution.
You. Her. The father, I don't care if you have to PAY him to be there. A child psychologist, not of the programmie variety. All in the same room. And you sit there and all of you work together to untwist whatever the fuck has gone wrong in her head, for as many sessions as it takes. YOU. HIM. HER. A PROFESSIONAL. ALL AT THE SAME TIME. Have you tried this before? If so, what the hell happened?
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@sad: Which wilderness program is she in? And why the antipathy towards you, and the preference towards Dad?
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How about just letting her come live with you and letting her sort it out for herself? With most suicidal people there is the hype and there is the real danger of someone hurting themselves. I wouldn't get that overly worried about what is going on and just give your daughter some time with you. If here dad is willing to help out to reassure her that he's absolutely fine with the move and that he actively participates in her life that is even better.
That's my suggestion, just let her come live with you and give it time. Time heals all wounds so it is said.
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I'd like to drop in and mention that Stockholm syndrome is rather well known.
What's daddio feeding the girl?
Either way, you will not fix anything with a program. The most you'd accomplish is making her bury it - so she can survive while in the program - only to resurface later with a vengeance. There is no quick fix, nor is there some "hard decision" for you to make so you can give yourself kudos for how hard it was that will ameliorate this.
At this point, sad, I'd consider foster care for the child given neither you nor her dad seem to be capable of doing anything in her best interest, the hospital is apparently making money off of referrals or clearly does not vet out the places it gives recommendations to, and the girl is trying to kill herself.
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The truth is any kid can benefit from being placed in treatment. Tough love is nothing more than helping a kid to grow up into an adult. You can be one of those helicopter parents that hold the hand of their kid through college until they get a job and do wraparound stalking like fornits posters suggest, or you can send them on an adventure of their life with a wilderness program and let them grow into an independent young person ready for life. All the programs that people complain about here are out of business, the posters here were in treatment 25 years ago on average, there was a poll done indicating this. Treatment evolves like any industry and it's really helpful to any kid, not necessarily just troubled teens. Don't let the scare tactics here scare you, treatment programs save lives and 99.99% of kids do well. The other 00.01% end up posting here, its' a safe gamble.
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bullshit
glad to see you came to post here and tell us about how well it worked for you that you're googling it :sue:
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The truth is any kid can benefit from being placed in treatment. Tough love is nothing more than helping a kid to grow up into an adult.
(http://http://memegenerator.net/Courage-Wolf/ImageMacro/1255203/Courage-Wolf-FIND-SUICIDAL-GIRL-TROLL-HER-MOTHER.jpg)
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yanno fornits really went to shit after embedding sound and making images that are embedded be DISPLAYED BY DEFAULT was disabled and click-only.
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I know, I miss big ben.
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it's sad, dad is encouraging her staying away from me; he doesn't want to lose her 'affection' as he ain't got it from anyone else.
Her suiciide ideation/attempts have long been relinquished. She had made lots of gains in the wilderness program, but not ready to live with me or dad, as she still needs some time away with professional place to help sort it all out.
I have requested a forensic evaluation from the courts; so if it turns out that dad is alienating her (read up on parental alienation syndrome) the courts will recommend the appropriate steps to be taken, such as mandating dad into therapy, or forbidding dad from having contact with kid for a while, so that she feels free to reconnet with me.
thank you all for all info! i like to hear diviersified opinions.
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She had made lots of gains in the wilderness program
And you know this how? No, really, how exactly do you know this?
with professional place
You aren't listening to a word we're fucking saying, are you?
All right, it's time to step back and let my old pal Chuck Darwin handle this one.
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yanno fornits really went to shit after embedding sound and making images that are embedded be DISPLAYED BY DEFAULT was disabled and click-only.
It did for you, Niles, because you had a difficult time expressing yourself in words. For the rest of us it got better. We dont find a need to post screaming gorillas for attention because we cannot communicate properly via words.
But welcome back Niles. Try giving it another go without pictures!
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The truth is any kid can benefit from being placed in treatment.
Wow. You are a true believer, huh? So any kid, even one that doesn t need to be treated for anything can benefit from a treatment center? This so silly. Maybe parents shouldn t raise their kids at all anymore.. That s what we have treatment centers for..lol
Tough love is nothing more than helping a kid to grow up into an adult.
Tough Love is stupid. It is a stupid concept that has been used to justify all sorts of abuse. The emphasis is on punishment.. not self-growth.
and it is on conformity....
"A person cannot experience self-growth with a gun to their heads"
- nathaniel Branden.
You can be one of those helicopter parents that hold the hand of their kid through college until they get a job and do wraparound stalking like fornits posters suggest,
Or to put it more accurately, Fornits posters, suggest that you know where you are sending your kid. Each program comes with an attached set of values. Are you really comfortable alowing someone else to dictate your child's values, without even knowing about them?
or you can send them on an adventure of their life with a wilderness program and let them grow into an independent young person ready for life.
Wilderness Program.. It is sill shit. People do not require wilderness programs.
All the programs that people complain about here are out of business, the posters here were in treatment 25 years ago on average, there was a poll done indicating this. Treatment evolves like any industry and it's really helpful to any kid, not necessarily just troubled teens. Don't let the scare tactics here scare you, treatment programs save lives and 99.99% of kids do well. The other 00.01% end up posting here, its' a safe gamble.
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She had made lots of gains in the wilderness program
And you know this how? No, really, how exactly do you know this?
It's worth noting that many such "gains" are not really based on any deep changes, and may not last. She's in a different environment, programs will characterize any compliant kids as "doing well," and she's probably also happy to hear from you, if that was the occasion which prompted the observation.
Which wilderness program is she in? Some are far worse than others, generally the ones that include "therapy" or promise some sort of attitude adjustment in participants as part of the package.
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Which wilderness program is she in?
Well, it doesn't look like she's going to say. But the only one she's asked any questions about is Open Sky Wilderness in Colorado.
In which case I made a minor error: Her daughter stands a chance of being a dessicated corpse mummifying in the Coloradan sunshine instead of the Utahn.
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Anyone who has worked in a wilderness program or had a child attend one will tell you that the program shows positive results fairly quickly. There is no question about that. There are also independent studies which have been performed with oversight from third parties indicating a success rate above 80%.
So with that being said the next question is what is the next step? Wilderness programs remove your child from a toxic environment, stabilize them and places them on a healthy path.
This also gives (Professionals)therapists a chance to determine what the next step should be while they are there. Will the child do well going home? Going home with family therapy? Are there changes that need to be made at home? Etc. since wilderness is so brief the changes are not long lasting unless root cause is established and the right changes are made. Typically the child moves on to a longer term facility or Therapeutic boarding school where the child will have the chance to grow and advance in a healthy environment and insure the changes are long lasting.
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Hey, copypaste Whooter! Try reading what one of the other Whooters said in this thread before you post.
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The whooters kept notes?
Bad ones, sadly. :beat:
I've never had any problem with being extremely articulate or intellectually rigorous. Check my post history.
So yeah, weren't we talking about how some idiot was trying to have us help her justify her stupid behavior? Or did she decide to fucking listen?
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I can’t speak to all wilderness places because I only worked at one and it was a while ago now. But be sceptical about progress. I knew one guy who was there because he took a lot of drugs and liked speed in particular. He admitted to me that he really craved them a lot and this had not stopped wanting them at all during his time there. But in terms of doing everything he was supposed to the kid was a star. He progressed in record time. 2 days after he graduated he was back on the first level because he stole his kid brother’s ADD meds. In hindsight it was pretty unethical for them to have ever taken the kid but they did twice. He ended up at a treatment centre in florida. His mother was enamored with it because they had family down there and at the end of the day kids got to stay with families instead of somewhere sterile. This was 99 so I have no idea whether the place was legit or if it was just another of these places that is just abusive. At the time it sounded perfect and I felt glad that the kid didn’t have to do wilderness anymore.
So basically if your kid comes home from wilderness and it turns out that she has not progressed as well as you thought don’t let them tell you it is a good idea for her to go back. It wont’ be. I feel for you and your girl but keep her at home if you possibly can. So many places that sound good on paper turn out not to be.
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He ended up at a treatment centre in florida. His mother was enamored with it because they had family down there and at the end of the day kids got to stay with families instead of somewhere sterile. This was 99 so I have no idea whether the place was legit or if it was just another of these places that is just abusive. At the time it sounded perfect and I felt glad that the kid didn’t have to do wilderness anymore.
Sounds suspiciously like Straight or a descendant and how they got around regulations on residential places. Since the kids went to "a" home (most times it wasn't their home but another, higher phaser -more indoctrinated client-) at night, they weren't considered inpatient. No matter that very often we were in "the building" until 2,3 or 4 in the morning and had to be back at 6 or 7, sometimes with over an hour ride there. No matter that we were locked in the bedrooms at night, windows nailed shut (can anyone say fire codes violation?) with no mattresses or access to a bathroom. No matter that if we refused to write an MI (moral inventory) they would keep us awake for days on end and ration food to the point of starvation. It was all for our own good!!
:beat: :ftard: