Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: FormerTeacher on December 14, 2005, 11:23:00 PM
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Somehow I got lured into coming to CEDU to teach by friends. When I got there I quickly realized something weird was going on and made it very clear that I would not participate in raps since I had no formal training as a psychologist or therapist. Turns out no one did, eh? They hired me right out of college and tried to feed me their B.S. I only taught there for 9 months or so, and I still haven't forgiven my friends for helping to lure me there. We now refer to it as the "School from Hell."
I recognize at least one person here as a former student. I'm not sure how she feels about me, and it's probably best if I just stay anonymous.
I just wanted you all to know that not everyone that was employed there bought the therapy stuff and believed in the school. Looking back I really realize how terrible that place was and I'm sorry for all the shit you all got put through.[ This Message was edited by: FormerTeacher on 2005-12-14 20:24 ]
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When were you a teacher there?
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:smile: Im just curious as to when you taught at the high school. i was there from 93-95. all the teahers that i had werent that awful. it was the family leaders and the higher ups who were kind of abusive. i mean i see all this stuff about physical abuse and students having sex with faculty. that never happened when i was there. it was pretty strict and the school was under the control of the staff, not the kids. i mean yeah there was sex contracts and kids splitting but we rarely heard of alcohol or drugs on campus. i remember an instance where a kid asked a parent of another kid to bring him a pack of ciggerettes, and the parents told him flat out that they believed in the program and that they wouldnt do that. i mean at that time it seemed like the school was a lot different from recently. So what did you teach? Whos family where you in? or i think they started calling them teams. My family leader was Pam Abell. She was harsh. God she loved to scream. :evil:
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I was also wondering when you taught at Cedu-Rs.
I was there from 1991-1992. Several new teaching staff were hired about 5 months before I split for good, they were certainly far more mellow and didn't preach the program to us constantly, like the old staff abusers did. Of course these staff members were new at the time, and they may have assimilated a more program-orientated outlook later on.
I agree with Elaina that Pam Abel loved to yell in raps and shower female students with degrading labels. Just being a girl at cedu made you a "cum-guzzling whore" in Pam's eyes.
Pam went easy on the guys, preferring insted to flirt with, or even to play "mother" to us in her own twisted way. She was indeed a very sick woman, that Pam Abel.
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you're a cum guzzling whore you bitch
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Back again coward? I thought you were "thru
with me", y'know ever since I called you out
and you rabbited like the worthless little chicken shit that you are.
I guess you must have "a thing" for Pam Abell
or something, why else would you come out of that closet you're always hiding in?
And by the way eunich, the only "cum-guzzling whore" around here is you!
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I taught there in 1998... mostly high school, but some middle school too. I remember Pam Abell, but I can't say I knew her well. Like I said, I avoided raps -- I think I attended one and never went through propheet... thank god.
The friends that 'lured' me there (I say this jokingly because they didn't really do much to bring me there other than pass along the info about me being a young, recent graduate) were teachers also, but did get more involved in the raps and other 'therapeutic' aspects of the school. Neither of them are particularly gullible or cultish, so it still puzzles me as to why they got as involved as they did.
Anyway, I hated that place, just like most of you all did. There was a dark cloud that hung over the whole damn school.
I do think about my former students from time to time and wonder how they are. I also wonder if they look at me like just another evil bitch... I am still a teacher and I think the "evil bitch" thing is tough to get away from, no matter how cool/understanding of a teacher you are.
Based on the info I've just given, I think the one student I recognize might be able to figure out who I am. If not, that's probably just as well.
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When I was at CEDU, I think most people drank the Kool Aid... it (program bullshit)was that good. I think even intelligent people gravitate toward any program that says it will give you tools to lead a more successful, rewarding life.
Now take the students who are stuck there without recourse. At some level, buying in is almost survival. Even when you spout program dogma knowing it's all crap, the line between truth and bullshit gets blurred after you put on the same act for a sustained amount of time.
Look at the multi billion dollar diet industry for proof of something that makes a lot of dough turning people on to program after program for the diet "tools" that will finally work.
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I was a RS HS student from 97-99. What did you teach?
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I taught English and Social Studies, but for the NPS program.
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Damm straight you should appologize. I suffer from PTSD now from my Cedu experience. If you were there when I was 87-90 then I accept you appology if not then then you have a lot of explaning to do. Your friends may have lured you there but you could have left anytime you wanted no told you you had to stay
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woah! annonymous this person is appologizing. no need to attach him or her. I mean obviously she or he regrets it now. Personally I have a lot of good mememorizes from Cedu and in some ways it helped me very much. Yes in other ways I have some PTSD symptoms as well and still am haunted by the place. but no need to place any blame especially for someone who was just a teacher and was there long after you were.
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I have a right to chew this person out. He puts blame on his friends luring him. His friends don't control him. He controls himself and he could have left sooner then he did if he did not like what was going on. Cedu did nothing good for me and I have right to say that for the rest of my life and make sure that people here my story and how my life has been turned upside because of the so called school
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Well, the teacher was just teaching. It's the "counselors" who are the real issue here. That teacher was just educating - the business was in two parts. The "emotional growth" part and the school. I never worked for CEDU, but was in a private practice up there using offices and seeing kids.
I relate to this teacher. I also wasn't there very long, but it was enough to see how terrible it was for the kids. I started looking for a job - it takes a while sometimes. The teacher who posted here couldn't just quit without another job. And teaching jobs usually come up annually.
Be mad at the counseling staff and the administrators. They should be your real target! And I think someone here posted Brandi Elliott's information - email and phone number, I believe. She was abusive and ignorant. THAT is someone to be mad at! Or Russ or Guy or Teresa... there are a lot of them. But I wouldn't put this teacher in that category. The teachers didn't participate in any of the abuse.
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On 2005-12-19 04:16:00, former CEDU therapist wrote:
"It's the "counselors" who are the real issue here. That teacher was just educating - the business was in two parts. The "emotional growth" part and the school."
I agree with FCT that the Cedu program was broken down into 2 parts: "emotional growth" & academic. However, I also must add that Cedu failed miserably in both areas.
Everyone here who isn't brainwashed knows that the so-called "emotional growth therapy" is totally worthless. It's a sham, because "Emotional Growth" is not therapy. It is interrogation coupled with verbal abuse and psychological torture.
I did not "grow" emotionally at cedu. Cedu did not give me any useful "tools" to take with me. What I did take with me was a ton of unecessary stress, horrible memories of suffering, and nightmares, which lasted for the better part of a year. Suffice to say that Cedu failed me in terms of meeting my "emotional" needs.
It is also a known fact that Cedu's academic program was sub par at best.
Actually, when I was at Cedu (1991-92), the academics were almost non existent.
We had formal schooling (english, math, history) only 2 mornings per week! We didn't have science class at all. Cedu gave science credits for chopping wood ("earth science") and shoveling shit on their farm ("farm science")!
We never had homework either. Additionally,work assignments were done during class time! That means that people on full times or indefinates missed classes for weeks or even months at a time. I probably spent 2/3 of my time at Cedu on work assignments, when I was supposed to be getting an education.
When I left cedu, I was Years behind other kids my age academically. I spent the remaining 2 years of high school playing catch up and doing extra credit work, just so I could graduate on time. Obviously, Cedu completely failed to meet my academic needs.
I agree with FCT that there is a difference
between someone who was just at Cedu to teach, and seasoned child-abuser veterans like Guy Bonanno, Russ Decker, and Rudy Benz. However, even back then at the age of 15, I remember being fully aware that Cedu's academics were shit and that my education was being seriously neglected. The few real Teachers we did have at cedu (meaning staff who actually had teaching degrees from real colleges), must have seen this too. I always wondered why they didn't speak out more, or notify the proper authorities and try to change the program. I realize that the teachers needed a paycheck, but isn't it considered unethical to knowingly give your students a sub par education?
I for one am still trying figure out how I got straight A's & B's on all of my Cedu
report cards, when I spent 2/3 of my classes digging ditches or scrubbing pans!
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that is EXACTLY how it worked at RMA at the same time.
I shared a very similar experience with the added pressure of having to relate to peers at the same time afterwards in a real school. man i must've been wierd.
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I didn't post this because I feel I'm to blame for anything. I didn't buy into the program. I started in May and was out of there by December. It wasn't for me. The "therapy" going on was screwing things up more than it was helping. I didn't have to go to raps to know this. The kids told me. My last week there I was pretty honest with my students and how I felt toward the school. There were even a couple of kids that ran away and I saw them in the town and told them they could come stay at my house if they wanted.
No one needs to 'chew me out.' I didn't do anything that was worthy of being chewed out. I thought perhaps if the one student that I recognized here had her chance, she might be angry with me because I think she's pretty angry with CEDU, and for a short, short time, I represented the academic part of the CEDU program. And what a joke it was.
Imagine being two weeks out of college, no teaching experience, thrown into a 'classroom' with 8 kids of all different ages and asked to teach them all different things. Impossible. I didn't live in the mountains, and had no knowledge of what went on at CEDU before getting hired there. My friends didn't tell me about the 'therapy' going on there.
Now I teach in the public schools and have been doing so since I left CEDU. I'd take the gangbangers and shithead I run across there over CEDU "therapy" any day.[ This Message was edited by: FormerTeacher on 2005-12-19 09:23 ]
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nice one. I like him. he's a dick without cedu ed.
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BTW, I'm a 'she,' not a 'he.'
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rooowr! ffffffffttttttttttt.
God i hated that place.
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On 2005-12-19 07:09:00, Son Of Serbia wrote:
"
On 2005-12-19 04:16:00, former CEDU therapist wrote:
"It's the "counselors" who are the real issue here. That teacher was just educating - the business was in two parts. The "emotional growth" part and the school."
I agree with FCT that the Cedu program was broken down into 2 parts: "emotional growth" & academic. However, I also must add that Cedu failed miserably in both areas.
Everyone here who isn't brainwashed knows that the so-called "emotional growth therapy" is totally worthless. It's a sham, because "Emotional Growth" is not therapy. It is interrogation coupled with verbal abuse and psychological torture.
I did not "grow" emotionally at cedu. Cedu did not give me any useful "tools" to take with me. What I did take with me was a ton of unecessary stress, horrible memories of suffering, and nightmares, which lasted for the better part of a year. Suffice to say that Cedu failed me in terms of meeting my "emotional" needs.
It is also a known fact that Cedu's academic program was sub par at best.
Actually, when I was at Cedu (1991-92), the academics were almost non existent.
We had formal schooling (english, math, history) only 2 mornings per week! We didn't have science class at all. Cedu gave science credits for chopping wood ("earth science") and shoveling shit on their farm ("farm science")!
We never had homework either. Additionally,work assignments were done during class time! That means that people on full times or indefinates missed classes for weeks or even months at a time. I probably spent 2/3 of my time at Cedu on work assignments, when I was supposed to be getting an education.
When I left cedu, I was Years behind other kids my age academically. I spent the remaining 2 years of high school playing catch up and doing extra credit work, just so I could graduate on time. Obviously, Cedu completely failed to meet my academic needs.
I agree with FCT that there is a difference
between someone who was just at Cedu to teach, and seasoned child-abuser veterans like Guy Bonanno, Russ Decker, and Rudy Benz. However, even back then at the age of 15, I remember being fully aware that Cedu's academics were shit and that my education was being seriously neglected. The few real Teachers we did have at cedu (meaning staff who actually had teaching degrees from real colleges), must have seen this too. I always wondered why they didn't speak out more, or notify the proper authorities and try to change the program. I realize that the teachers needed a paycheck, but isn't it considered unethical to knowingly give your students a sub par education?
I'm for one am still trying figure out how I got straight A's & B's on all of my Cedu
report cards, when I spent 2/3 of my classes digging ditches or scrubbing pans!
[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-12-19 07:18 ]"
of the most distinguishing features that I had thought was just "personality quirks" I later found to be related to traumatic encounters. I jump when someone comes into my periphery and have other hyper sensative awareness of my immediate surrounding and environment. I always make a noise on the threshold of a door because I was encouraged to do such things in my modification when I was a youngster. In situations involving large groups of people I can identify whose attention I have instinctively. If I'm correct or not doesn't matter, I will approach the person. I have never been used to the "games" people play. I'm direct and since leaving my place so many years ago and while there I've had few friends though I've always been "popular". I've had more fistfights and romantic interludes than Prince has had names. But at other times I am reclusive and depressed and during these times I know that the world is fucking with me and I have no control and I think about the feeling I had at that place and how depression was dealt with...I become estranged from anyone and can't leave the house. I think about suicide. I come to this site and see and remember about my time there so long ago, and for so long I've tried to make it work for me, use my "tools". IT helps little, as I've chosen to feel what I feel. It can't be chemical. All the doctors and especially my shrink are wrong, don't they know that everything I need is inside of me. I'm supposed to feel good when I feel bad. There must be a reward for this trouble inside. This is a lot of my life that is effected by the experience I endured. I bought in fully to the idea that I was nothing and my life would go nowhere for two years. Then in six months the place that had so ruefully worn away any individual thinking and rendered me not much more than a scared, betrayed slave; changed into a shelter from the outside world. We were threatened with the realities of the street and warned that without program thinking we were destined for failure. Then they turned us loose after a dinky graduation ceremony and that was that. The only thing, ergo, I got from the program was that without it I'm lost. I hate the program because there is no program. The only thing gained was a euphoric utopian bubble that lasted for a little while, ending exactly the first time I confronted one of my friends or roomates by program standards. There was no message. There is no secret. The program did nothing but hurt. ME. The real ME. Whatever depression related problems or teenage angst I had when I went there was distracted from or distorted by lengthy group sessions in which I was told what my problems were starting on the first day by people whose names I hadn't even learned yet. "Confrontation" style therapy ripped me and my already delicate disposition towards the world and my family life, and replaced it with NOTHING but more angst and indecision. It left me with almost no social skills and a distain for manual labor.
I digress, but in the end these places fuck royally with you religiously/spiritually, pyschologically, and painfully. The emotional growth aspect is equal to rage. It fed on anger and it spawned it likewise.
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On 2005-12-19 09:03:00, FormerTeacher wrote:
"I didn't post this because I feel I'm to blame for anything. I didn't buy into the program. I started in May and was out of there by December. It wasn't for me. The "therapy" going on was screwing things up more than it was helping. I didn't have to go to raps to know this. The kids told me. My last week there I was pretty honest with my students and how I felt toward the school. There were even a couple of kids that ran away and I saw them in the town and told them they could come stay at my house if they wanted.
No one needs to 'chew me out.' I didn't do anything that was worthy of being chewed out. I thought perhaps if the one student that I recognized here had her chance, she might be angry with me because I think she's pretty angry with CEDU, and for a short, short time, I represented the academic part of the CEDU program. And what a joke it was.
Imagine being two weeks out of college, no teaching experience, thrown into a 'classroom' with 8 kids of all different ages and asked to teach them all different things. Impossible. I didn't live in the mountains, and had no knowledge of what went on at CEDU before getting hired there. My friends didn't tell me about the 'therapy' going on there.
Now I teach in the public schools and have been doing so since I left CEDU. I'd take the gangbangers and shithead I run across there over CEDU "therapy" any day.[ This Message was edited by: FormerTeacher on 2005-12-19 09:23 ]"
I was not not inviting people to attack you, nor did I suggest that you personally are to blame for Cedu's infinite short comings. I recognize that by being fresh out of school, you probably didn't know what you were getting into.
Actually several staff who were hired and fired during my time at Cedu expressed similar sentiments. Cedu had a knack for hiring people right out of school and corrupting them (the staff who stayed). Those staff who refused being corrupted by the program were either fired, or left on their own. It sounds like you were among the latter group, and I do respect that. I also appreciate your honesty regarding cedu's joke academics.
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[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-12-19 10:01 ]
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Thanks Son of Serbia. My original intention for posting this was just to let former students know that not all of the teachers at CEDU were "the bad guys." After I left, my friends continued to work there, and only then did I really piece together all the stuff that went on. I guess I was pretty ignorant to what exactly was entailed in the 'emotional growth' part of the program -- I honestly believed that parents knew what went on and that's why they paid for it. Only after I left did I put it all together -- again, fresh out of college, and like Son of Serbia said, they were looking for young recent college graduates to corrupt and who they could hopefully get to perpetuate the destruction.
Anyway, even though I said I don't feel like I deserve to be 'chewed out,' I understand the anger toward anyone who used to work there, in whatever capacity, and I'm fine with that. In my heart of hearts, I know that I tried my best to be myself and I sincerely believe that no one there is worse for being my student. I call myself a 'former teacher' at CEDU, which is pretty funny because 'CEDU teacher' is pretty much an oxymoron.
I wish you all the best.
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You people are ongoing pathetic. And usually dead on wrong.
Remember when the CEDU schools closed? Serb and the whole brat pack were oh-so-sure the whole CEDU chain wouldn't ever open again.
I mean it was all over to listen to people on this board nobody would ever invest in reopening them, the name was tainted no one would ever be associated with the CEDU name or concept again.
Guess somebody's crystal ball was way off cuz they are back. The buyers are investing heavily in all the schools. The only reason RMA isn't up and running along with the rest is extensive renovations.
And the new owners have hired back about all the old school staff they can get and want to keep the CEDU concept like it was before Brown Schools screwed things up
Here forever folks Whether you all like it or not some awfully knowledgable business people at a billion dollar entity think these schools are a good bet for success and useful in helping troubled kids So btw do a lot of kids who attended and went on with their lives instead of whining on a web site because their little fweelings got hurt during a rap about ten years back
HAHAHA
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Hmm, anonymous, so whining about how Son of Serbia was wrong is better than whining about how much CEDU sucked?
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On 2005-12-19 15:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
Here forever folks Whether you all like it or not some awfully knowledgable business people at a billion dollar entity think these schools are a good bet for success and useful in helping ....................to line their pockets with all the cash they can bilk out of gullible parents, all-the-while happily forcing their bullshit view of the world on unsuspecting, very vulnerable teens and causing lasting damage to countless kids.
There, fixed that for ya! :tup:
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I would like to point out that when you taught at Cedu as a female teacher time had changed since I was a student. When I was student Classes consisted only two days a week and learning about how to build things in the woods as science, propheets as a class, and I never recieved the help I needed in the classes. None of my classes transfered to the high school that I ended up transfering too when I was done with Cedu even though I was told that it would. I was way behind and had to attend two years of summer school just to catch up.
For the therapist that saw the student and didn't like what you saw why didn't you bring it up and raise an issue back then.
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Thank you for asking! I made major issues of it, called the county, called the cops, wrote letters, complained to asministrators, and actually was fired. Big surprise. I wasn't even that upset to be fired and I had not found a new job yet. That place was HELL for a REAL therapist... even though we had nothing to do with the program. Hell. You know why? Because I was TRAINED and I KNEW how to help people!
I suggest that before you make accusations or go on the attack, you be sure you have all the information you need. Most people here are on the same side!
And even those few months will stay with me forever. I actually was traumatized by it. And I learned that the cops and the county hated CEDU, the county never placed kids there, the state was suspicious, and the cops were continually investigating. For the rest of my life, I will have bad memories of CEDU. The only good thing was the great kids I got to know.
On 2005-12-20 01:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
For the therapist that saw the student and didn't like what you saw why didn't you bring it up and raise an issue back then."
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On 2005-12-19 15:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You people are ongoing pathetic. And usually dead on wrong.
Remember when the CEDU schools closed? Serb and the whole brat pack were oh-so-sure the whole CEDU chain wouldn't ever open again.
I mean it was all over to listen to people on this board nobody would ever invest in reopening them, the name was tainted no one would ever be associated with the CEDU name or concept again.
Guess somebody's crystal ball was way off cuz they are back. The buyers are investing heavily in all the schools. The only reason RMA isn't up and running along with the rest is extensive renovations.
And the new owners have hired back about all the old school staff they can get and want to keep the CEDU concept like it was before Brown Schools screwed things up
Here forever folks Whether you all like it or not some awfully knowledgable business people at a billion dollar entity think these schools are a good bet for success and useful in helping troubled kids So btw do a lot of kids who attended and went on with their lives instead of whining on a web site because their little fweelings got hurt during a rap about ten years back
HAHAHA"
You forgot to mention was that your Flagship School: Cedu Running Springs was bought by the jewish organization Chabad, and now serves as a hebrew religious retreat. This means that freaks like you will never abuse kids there again. You lost your biggest, most recognized, and therefore most profitable campus! Cedu-RS is GONE FOREVER, and I like that VERY MUCH!
HAHAHA :lol:
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[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-12-21 06:29 ]
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That's right, there will be no more CEDU-RS. That leaves bumfuck Idaho as really the only destination for CEDU newbies. Which means CEDU, or UHS, or whatever, is not going to enjoy much of the business Californians drove to them back in the day. CEDU-RS really was the flagship. Many of those at BCA, RMA, and NWA were just spillover from the enrolled to capacity CEDU-RS. We'll see how long it is before the rebirth of CEDU goes under once again. I give it two years.
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Okay not attacking you personally (no disrespect here, just curious) but:
As a therapist how did you see Cedu's practices categorized? What form of psychological practices were they teaching and did you ever attend a rap? Did you realize that it was a cult? As a therapist, how can you help other students that still have problems after many years of leaving the school? Any advice on why so many students are traumatized and most are diagnosed with PTSD? What was the biggest psychological damage that you saw there? Do you know that there are hundreds of programs that are still going on and just spring up under different names (just like the straight programs). Because it is a greedy multi-billion dollar industry, how can it be stopped? What happened to america's dream of the free when these children had less rights then someone sent to prison for horrific crimes, and then treated worst then a prisoner on death row? I say in this case of Bush's new initiative EVERY CHILD GETS A WARPED MIND because they are all left behind with the joke of the educational system in these WWASP schools. And lastly what can we do collectively to stop it?
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Oh, well - I'm no expert on this stuff. I am not in that business anymore. Not at all. And my time there was short, so I really don't know much.
1) I felt it was a cult.
2) I recognized it as using what I knews of synanon from reading about it.
3) I would say they used shunning, social pressure, shaming, blaming, histrionics, sleep deprivation, and it almost seemed that there was some Stockholm Syndrome going on.
4) I saw kids who were floridly psychogic there and that was a real issue. I put it into writing on a daily basis. I sent these letters to all of the administrators as well as the owner of the private practice I worked for there. These letters said that it was my legal and ethical duty to report to them that the kid was psychotic and it was an inappropriate placement. I also hunted down the main administrator of my campus and told him EVERY DAY that so-and-so was psychotic and inappropriately placed. He would say, "okay, thank you - you told me." They did not give a damn. It was all about the money.
5) I certainly would NEVER participate in a Profeet. That would be inappropriate.
6) I don't know how to stop any industry.
7) The best revenge is living well. I would recommend that anyone harmed by CEDU go live their life with passion and vigor. If a person is injured by it, they should talk to an attorney and sue Brown Schools. They are rich. Sue them. You would have to prove it, and proving psychological injury is difficult.
I did not feel attacked by anyone. I was thinking about the teacher.
On 2005-12-21 12:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Okay not attacking you personally (no disrespect here, just curious) but:
As a therapist how did you see Cedu's practices categorized? What form of psychological practices were they teaching and did you ever attend a rap? Did you realize that it was a cult? As a therapist, how can you help other students that still have problems after many years of leaving the school? Any advice on why so many students are traumatized and most are diagnosed with PTSD? What was the biggest psychological damage that you saw there? Do you know that there are hundreds of programs that are still going on and just spring up under different names (just like the straight programs). Because it is a greedy multi-billion dollar industry, how can it be stopped? What happened to america's dream of the free when these children had less rights then someone sent to prison for horrific crimes, and then treated worst then a prisoner on death row? I say in this case of Bush's new initiative EVERY CHILD GETS A WARPED MIND because they are all left behind with the joke of the educational system in these WWASP schools. And lastly what can we do collectively to stop it?"
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Man, call that shithole cedu what you want, but a cult? Cedu was not a damn cult. Synanon was a cult. Cedu was a damn boarding school. Sure they made you stay up late, eat shitty sandwiches, and yell at the floor 9 (or 8, depending on when you were there) times during your stay. I hardly think that qualifies as a cult.
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On 2005-12-22 09:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Man, call that shithole cedu what you want, but a cult? Cedu was not a damn cult. Synanon was a cult. Cedu was a damn boarding school. Sure they made you stay up late, eat shitty sandwiches, and yell at the floor 9 (or 8, depending on when you were there) times during your stay. I hardly think that qualifies as a cult. "
Are you serious? Because if you are, then please tell me, how long have you been smoking crack?
The truth is that every part of the Cedu program was inspired by Synanon. Raps for instance were taken directly from a daily ritual practiced by Synannon's followers called "the Game". Synanon's founder: Charles E. Deidrich would gather his followers around him and then would proceed to verbally attack anyone he felt was "drifting outside of the group." (ie. thinking for themselves). In turn, the remaining participants would follow Deidrich in unison, and attack who ever he turned on.
Does any of this sound familiar to you? It should!
It is a well known fact that Mel Wasserman lived with Synannon during the sixties, and left with their blessing to start Cedu. Cedu originally stands for Charles E. Deidrich University, in honor of Mel's mentor.
What was that stupid saying staff always had? Hmm..Oh yeah, "You are what you do, not what you say you do." Well it seems to me that since
Cedu acts like a cult, then we all should call it one!
[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-12-22 12:21 ]
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Shit, Strugglingteens doesn't even seem to consider Synanon a cult.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... erview.htm (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/2005/7/lanebillinterview.htm)
..........?I met Mel in San Francisco several years before he started CEDU, while I was working for Synanon, a drug rehabilitation center,? Bill said. ?I remember talking with him about his ideas and thought he might have a better way of working with teens and younger students. But as the years passed, we went our separate ways with Mel moving to Palm Springs, and I never really thought much more about it, until I began hearing about a new non-profit organization that had opened a school in Running Springs, CA.?
According to Bill, Mel started the first program in about 1966, but it was several years after that when Mel approached him about working for CEDU.
?A few years after the program opened, I started reading and hearing about it, and we began communicating back and forth, but I was pretty content at Synanon, which was how I became involved in working with all ages, from teen to adult,? said Bill. ?However, when Mel asked me to come down and take a look at CEDU, which at the time consisted of a very small school in Running Springs and an office in Los Angeles, I agreed and was pretty excited about what I saw at the program. He offered me a job and I started working for Mel in January 1974, ?I was only nine at the time,? he joked.?
In the early days of his work with CEDU, Bill?s expertise was in public relations/ fundraising and he traveled all over the country to locate whatever the program needed........."
That last paragraph does speak volumes though. Most of these people's "expertise" is in fundraising from what I've seen.
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There is a lot of money in these places. The contradiction of a school that is supposed to have its focus on selfless sacrifice in order to help critically troubled youths publicly stating it is a profit based industry is inexplicable, but somehow these guidelines were allowed to exist for a number of years. Naturally, there were very few accidents in the design for dealing with student/parent relations. If the "program," or whatever terminology you want to use to categorize CEDU, is geared toward profit then the students are no longer individual people but mere products, and the retention of the product in this industry is what garners said profits. Therefore, it is essential to retain the product for as long as possible, in order to collect the exorbitant fee the parents must shell out in order to "save" their faltering children. So you get to talk your parents once every two weeks for fifteen minutes while a "counselor" (and you can't really call them a counselor, because they are not focused on helping the individual function in society as fast as possible, that would counteract the basic policy of generating as much tuition as possible) hovers nearby monitoring the discussion. If any type of dissent is voiced by the product, it becomes the "counselor's" (PR representative's) job to negate any concerns the parents may incur from the conversation by painting a desperate image of the products state of mind. The worse off CEDU could make the child seem, the more likely the parent is to sink even more money and resources into the institution, in the hopes that they can somehow salvage and redirect what is apperently an impending implosion destined for their child. I used to to be furious with my parents for not deducing this simple, economic formula that seems so blatent now, but with the benefit of time I can see their hopeless situation. I fucked up pretty monumentally, and by the time I ended up at the reality warp that was CEDU, I'd already been arrested so many times, and nearly died in a car accident. So they couldn't really trust any assertion that came out of my mouth. And how could they suspect the degree of manipulation and deception that CEDU practiced? In retrospect, they probably should have realized that for the amount of money they were spending, perhaps they should have been able to speak to their child more than 24 times a year, at fifteen minutes a pop. But such was the deliberate propagnada machine of CEDU. Its brilliant, really, in a sinister and heartless way. Take children who have fucked up so badly that they have shredded the last inkling of trust between them and their parents and clearly cannot exist unfettered in a high school environment without incurring a whole nest of scars of arrests, expulsions, drunken injuries, etc. Convince them with the aid of a soothing and persuasive video showing kids "really breaking down the barriers of dysfunction, and getting to know the real person inside themselves," get the kid into the school under the guise of a fairly painless transitional process, and then call them immediately after the products arrival and say, "Jesus folks, it's much worse then we could have imagined." Because for the industry to work, you have to keep to product sufficiently cowed to be obedient, and you have to keep the beneficiaries of the product (who are no longer parents, they are the source of income that need to be stroked and swayed in whatever a way necessary in order to keep writing those checks) fearful enough to believe they can't afford not to remove their child from the "program." Or whatever. The top brass of CEDU aren't really a special breed in our society, incidentally. Though their formula was particularly devious, (and, admittedly, fairly genius in its duplicity,) there are numerous others who benefit from this same general genre of a profession. We call them con men. Generally, society imprisons such individuals.
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You said ?Man, call that shithole cedu what you want, but a cult? Cedu was not a damn cult. Synanon was a cult. Cedu was a damn boarding school. Sure they made you stay up late, eat shitty sandwiches, and yell at the floor 9 (or 8, depending on when you were there) times during your stay. I hardly think that qualifies as a cult.?
Yeah, pretty hard to believe and my jaw dropped finding that out, but let me enlighten you:
First of all CEDU doesn?t stand for ?See yourself as you are and do something about it? that?s Cedu?s propaganda and advertising pitch to lure parents into believing that that will help their children. CEDU actually stands for Charles E. Dederich University, the founder of Synanon http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia. ... nanon.html (http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/synanon.html) for more information. Which became a spin-off of Straight, Inc. >> Mel Sembler http://thestraights.com/index.htm (http://thestraights.com/index.htm) and Mel Wasserman was a part of that who founded CEDU.
Here are some warning Signs of a cult:
http://www.factnet.org/headlines/destru ... signs.html (http://www.factnet.org/headlines/destructive_cult_warning_signs.html)
Ask yourself if the following criteria apply to the group you are concerned about.
1.A destructive cult tends to be totalitarian in its control of its members' behavior. Cults are likely to dictate in great detail not only what members believe, but also what members wear and eat, when and where members work, sleep, and bathe, and how members think, speak, and conduct familial, marital, or sexual relationships.
DOES THIS RING A BELL: DRESS CODES, WORK DETAILS, SLEEP DEPERVATION IN PROFEETS, ?THINKING?, I?M ON A BAN, SEX AGREEMENTS.
2.A destructive cult tends to have an ethical double standard. Members are urged to be obedient to the cult, to carefully follow cult rules. They are also encouraged to be revealing and open in the group, confessing all to the leaders. On the other hand, outside the group they are encouraged to act unethically, manipulating outsiders or nonmembers, and either deceiving them or simply revealing very little about themselves or the group. In contrast to destructive cults, honorable groups teach members to abide by one set of ethics and act ethically and truthfully to all people in all situations.
DOES THIS RING A BELL: REVEALING AND CONFESSING IN RAPS/PROPHEETS, MANIPULATING PARENTS TO KEEP US THERE AND TELLING THEM OUR CONFESSIONS TRUE OR MADE UP TO KEEP WITH THE PROGRAM.
3.A destructive cult has only two basic purposes: recruiting new members and fund-raising. Altruistic movements, established religions, and other honorable groups also recruit and raise funds. However, these actions are incidental to an honorable group's main purpose of improving the lives of its members and of humankind in general. Destructive cults may claim to make social contributions, but in actuality such claims are superficial and only serve as gestures or fronts for recruiting and fund-raising. A cult's real goal is to increase the prestige and often the wealth of the leader.
DOES THIS RING A BELL: STAFF MEMBERS GOT BONUS? TO REFER STUDENTS TO OTHER SCHOOL FUNCTIONS IE PROVO. HELLO BILLION DOLLAR BUSINESS.
4.A destructive cult appears to be innovative and exclusive. The leader claims to be breaking with tradition, offering something novel, and instituting the ONLY viable system for change that will solve life's problems or the world's ills. But these claims are empty and only used to recruit members who are then surreptitiously subjected to mind control to inhibit their ability to examine the actual validity of the claims of the leader and the cult.
DOES THIS RING A BELL: YEAH THE WHOLE PROGRAM, DID IT ACTUALLY HELP OR HINDER ANY OF YOU? FEEL BRAINWASHED ANYONE? WHAT DID IT ALL MEAN?
5.A destructive cult is authoritarian in its power structure. The leader is regarded as the supreme authority. He or she may delegate certain power to a few subordinates for the purpose of seeing that members adhere to the leader's wishes. There is no appeal outside his or her system to a greater system of justice. For example, if a schoolteacher feels unjustly treated by a principal, an appeal can be made to the superintendent. In a destructive cult, the leader claims to have the only and final ruling on all matters.
DOES THIS RING A BELL: BIG SISTERS/BROTHERS UPPER HOUSE PUPILS?.OH AND DIDN?T THE FORMER TEACHER AND FORMER THERAPIST TRY TO TELL PEOPLE ABOUT IT AND NOTHING WAS DONE?
6.A destructive cult's leader is a self-appointed messianic person claiming to have a special mission in life. For example, leaders of flying saucer cults claim that beings from outer space have commissioned them to lead people away from Earth, so that only the leaders can save them from impending doom.
DOES THIS RING A BELL: PROFEETS, WITHOUT CEDU YOU WOULD BE ON THE STREET WHORING AROUND AND BEING ADDICTED TO CRACK, ETC.
7.A destructive cult's leader centers the veneration of members upon himself or herself. Priests, rabbis, ministers, democratic leaders, and other leaders of genuinely altruistic movements focus the veneration of adherents on God or a set of ethical principles. Cult leaders, in contrast, keep the focus of love, devotion, and allegiance on themselves.
DOES THIS RING A BELL: GET WITH THE PROGRAM! USE YOUR TOOLS. BTW, DID ANYONE GO TO CHURCH WHILE AT CEDU?
8.A destructive cult's leader tends to be determined, domineering, and charismatic. Such a leader effectively persuades followers to abandon or alter their families, friends, and careers to follow the cult. The leader then takes control over followers' possessions, money, time, and lives.
DOES THIS RING A BELL: RESTICTIONS, I?M ON A BAN, LACK OF FAMILY IMPUT, WAITING MONTHS TO WRITE A LETTER OR MAKE A PHONE CALL AND HAVE IT CENSORED. YEAH I THINK THEY TOOK COMPLETE CONTROL OF OUR LIVES AND MINDS.
BUT WAIT THERE?S MORE:
http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/warningsigns.html)
? The facility is not licensed. YEAH SO MANY QUALIFIED STAFF MEMBERS THERE AND WASN?T ACCREDITED UNTIL THE NINETIES.
? Verbal and/or written communication between the child and his parents, siblings, grandparents, etc. is prohibited, restricted, or monitored on any level. YEAH HELLO?
? The facility requires that the parents and/or child sign a form releasing the program of liability in the event of injury to the child. AGAIN WE WERE IN THEIR CARE.
? The program requests/demands/recommends that they have legal custody of children. THAT DIDN?T HAPPEN THAT I KNOW OF.
? The program requires that children live in foster or "host" homes instead of allowing them to reside with their parents. LIVE IN PROGRAM, DORMS
? The child or parent or forbidden from discussing the daily happenings at the facility. Often this policy is called "confidentiality." HELLO?
? The child is denied access to a telephone. VERY VERY LIMITED ACCESS!
? Phone calls between children and parents are monitored. YEAH HELLO!
? The program uses confrontational therapy. LETS RAP SHALL WE!
? Parents must fulfill requirements of the facility before being permitted to visit their own children. UM YEAH DID PARENTS EVER SHOW UP NO, IT WAS ALL PLANNED.
? The facility is located outside the jurisdiction of the United States. FAR AWAY FOR MOST PARENTS.
? Children are restrained or otherwise physically prevented from leaving the facility. WELL SOME OF THAT DIDN?T STOP US BUT WE ENDED UP BACK THERE, FULL TIMES.
? The staff includes former students/clients of the facility. YEAH I REMEMBER A FEW.
? Staff members claim that self-injury or cutting/carving on ones body is normal behavior for a child in treatment. WELL THAT DIDN?T HAPPEN.
? Parents are not allowed to remain with their child during the entire intake/entry process. THAT DID HAPPEN. REMEMBER STRIP SEARCHES?
? The program inflicts physical punishments on children such as exercising for extended periods of time, bizarre cleaning rituals (ie scrubbing floors with a toothbrush) or food restrictions. WORK DETAILS , DISHES, CAN?T TALK, SING AND HAVE TO DO IT ACCERATED LIKE RUNNING THE TRASH TO THE DUMPSTER.
? The program uses humiliation to "break them down." OHHHHH THE BIGGEST ONE OF ALL!!!!! RAPS CAUSE SERIOUS DAMAGE TO A LOT OF PEOPLE.
? The program forces children to remain in solitary confinement/isolation/time-out for an unspecified amount of time. FULL TIMES, WORK DETAILS
? The facility considers homosexuality to be a behavioral problem. OH COP-OUTS
? The facility claims to be able to "treat" homosexuality. UM OKAY.
? Reading materials are prohibited or severely limited. 2-3 DAY CLASSES FOR LIKE 4 HOURS EACH OF THOSE DAYS? WOW WE LEARNED GOOD!
? The facility does not have a clearly visible sign outside the building or descriptions of their location are vague. IT WAS THERE BUT ABOUT THREE MILES DOWN THE ROAD FROM THE MAIN ENTRANCE.
? The facility claims to modify behavior, yet has no licensed therapists on staff. OHHHH ANOTHER BIG ONE!
? A licensed doctor or registered nurse is not present at any time during normal operating hours. NOT SURE ABOUT THIS ONE BUT I DON?T THINK SO.
? Current clients/students participate in the intake/entry process. BIG BROTHER/SISTER
? Staff members offer to help parents obtain a court order forcing the child into, or keeping the child in, the facility. WELL SOME WHERE SENT THERE BY THE COURTS
? Children are observed while bathing, dressing, or using the toilet on any level of the program. WE WERE ALWAYS OBSERVED AT MOST POINTS BUT THIS MIGHT HAVE BEEN A LITTLE EXTREME.
? The facility claims to treat drug abuse, but does not conduct a drug screen prior to entry. YEAH HELLO HOW MANY WERE SENT THERE BECAUSE OF THIS? HELP SOME BECAUSE THERE WERE NO DRUGS THERE BUT DIDN?T TREAT IT.
? The facility does not allow children to follow their religion of choice. DID ANYONE GO TO CHURCH?
? Staff members must "approve" family members, siblings, friends, or employment. UM IT TOOK ME AT LEAST A YEAR TO BE ABLE TO TALK TO MY SISTER AND GRANDMA.
? Children are not afforded an education in accordance with state requirements. HELLO HOW DEMEANING WAS THIS 2-3 DAYS 4 HOURS, IF WE WERE LUCKY. OR ON A WORK DETAIL OR FULL TIME.
? Medication is recommended, prescribed, approved, or dispensed by anyone other than a medical doctor (MD). NOT SURE ABOUT THIS ONE.
? Children are denied medications that have been prescribed by an MD. NOT SURE ABOUT THIS ONE EITHER.
? Staff members, admissions personnel, referrers, etc. make statements indicating that "your child will die without" the program. UM OKAY WE WILL LIVE ON THE STREETS WITH HEROIN INJECTED CONSTANTLY AND BE CRACK WHORES.
? Children escort/supervise other children. FULL TIME WORK DETAILS BIG BROTHER/SISTER.
? Children have to "earn" the "right" to speak during group/therapy sessions. I?M ON A BAN?
? Children are denied outside activities on any level/phase. DID WE EVER GO ANYWHERE? EXCEPT THE WILDERNESS PROGRAMS?
? Staff members must approve the withdrawal of children from the facility. YEAH UNLESS YOUR YANKED BECAUSE INSURANCE WON?T PAY FOR IT OTHERWISE YOUR PARENTS ARE BRAINWASHED INTO MAKING YOU STAY, ?FOR YOUR OWN GOOD?!
? The facility expects total and unquestioned support of parents. YEAH AND THEY EVEN GAVE THEM BABY PROFEETS SO THEY COULD GET WITH THE PROGRAM.
? Children on any level/phase are forbidden to speak to other children in the facility. WELL THAT DEPENDS ON WHO YOU WERE ON A BAN FROM.
The following is a list of common characteristics of cults.
If you know of any juvenile facility that fits these descriptions, please contact us immediately.
1.Limitation of communication with those outside the group. Books, magazines, letters and visits with friends and family are discouraged or even banned. DID WE HAVE A TV TO HEAR THE NEWS? DID WE EVEN KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON IN THE OUTSIDE WORLD? YEAH SELECTED BOOKS, I DON?T REMEMBER ANY MAGAZINES AND LETTERS FROM MY GRANDMA WERE WITHHELD FROM ME FOR AT LEAST A YEAR. NO FRIENDS FROM THE OUTSIDE WERE ALLOWED AND FAMILY WAS ALSO LIMITED.
2.New members become convinced of the higher purpose and special calling of the group through a profound encounter, i.e. an alleged miracle or the prophetic word of the group. ONCE YOU GOT WITH THE PROGRAM. AND THE MIRACLE OF THE PROFEETS AND THE TRUTH ABOUT OURSELVES.
3.An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, be it global, social or personal. UM YEAH SEE YOURSELF AS YOU ARE AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
4.Use of the practice of self-disclosure to members in the group. In the context of a gathering of the group, converts are encouraged to admit past sins and imperfections, and doubts about the group. LETS RAP AGAIN SHALL WE BECAUSE 3 DAYS A WEEK FOR 4 HOURS WASN?T ENOUGH. WOW THAT IS ALMOST MORE TIME THAN CLASSES. ISN?T IT SUPPOSE TO BE A SCHOOL WHERE YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO LEARN THINGS.
5.The group's perspective is absolutely true and completely adequate to explain everything. The doctrine is not subject to amendments or question. Absolute conformity is required. KAHLIL GIBRAN AND THE PROPHEET, OH AND GET WITH THE PROGRAM!
6.A new vocabulary emerges within the context of the group. Group members "think" within the very abstract and narrow parameters of the group's doctrine. Loaded terms and cliches prejudice thinking. OH HELLO WHOLE PROGRAM! COP-OUT, BANS, DISHES HAD A WHOLE NEW MEANING, LETS RAP, INDIGHTMENTS, AGREEMENTS (OH HOW WE LIKED TO AGREE TO THOSE) SIT WITH THAT?.AND MUCH MUCH MORE!
7.Pre-group experience and group experience are narrowly interpreted through the absolute doctrine. YEAH I HAD SEX ONCE BUT WAS I A WHORE?
8.Salvation is possible only in the group. Those who leave the group are doomed. HOW MANY TIMES DID WE HEAR THAT ONE!
HOPE THAT ENLIGHTENS YOU, I WAS SHOCKED TO FIND THIS OUT AFTER 15+ YEARS OF TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT HAPPENED THERE. NOW I KNOW, WE WERE ALL BRAINWASHED INTO THINKING IT WAS A GREAT PLACE. MOST OF US HAVE IRREVERSIBLE DAMAGE THAT EFFECTS US IN OUR DAILY LIVES. AND IF YOU THINK YOU DON?T HAVE PROBLEMS BECAUSE OF CEDU YOU MUST BE WITH THE PROGRAM AND THE PRO-CEDU-RE. HOPE THAT?S WORKING FOR YOU!
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Mr. Therapist I never went on the attack I simply asked if there was a problem then why didn't you do something about it. If you can face the heat then to bad. If the state was suspicious and you knew that what they were doing was breaking the law then why didn't go to the local authorities. Have you ever heard of citzens arrest, or the Department of Children Services. I am sorry that you did get fired, but to know that were traumatized for your stay there I find to be full of shit. You were not yelled at 2-3 days week for almost three years. you did not have to rake and haul animal crap, cut wood, and have almost know form of an education. About 20percent of my so called school credits from Cedu would not transfer and when I graduated I was a grade behind my normal level.
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Boy oh boy these assertions really clarify what this site is about. And the kind of paranoia rampant among its frequent posters
CEDU was and is a business. Some of us think that it's a useful business which delivers structure, self-examination and changed social functioning in a way that helps oppositional self-destructive kids. Others think that the whole program is useless. Probably the truth is somewhere in the middle. I think that CEDU education clearly helped many of the kids that attended. They will tell you the same. It seems reasonable to assume that other kids were not helped by the CEDU method, there are many reasons why this might be so.
But a cult? That's sort of la-la land thinking isn't it? The earlier poster is right, the CEDU schools were and in fact are, simply boarding schools with a program that is advertised as being helpful to troubled teens.
You can agree or disagree with this premise without getting hysterical and talking about cults.
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"Boy oh boy these assertions really clarify what this site is about. And the kind of paranoia rampant among its frequent posters
CEDU was and is a business. Some of us think that it's a useful business which delivers structure, self-examination and changed social functioning in a way that helps oppositional self-destructive kids. Others think that the whole program is useless. Probably the truth is somewhere in the middle."
That was my assertion; paranoia is a matter of perception. There are always people who will respond favorably to manipulation, coercion, or outright intimidation. People like Jim Jones will always appear periodically, and the Marines will always have eager recruits. But the simple fact remains, at least in my humble opinion, that any institution ballsy enough to undertake the task of physically harboring wayward youths under the declared intent of altering their apparent degenerate behavior damn well better pursue the quest with purely ideological motives, because it is a risky undertaking fraught with incalculable potentialities for disaster. And if money exists even as a footnote for incentive the experiment is doomed to fail from the very fucking beginning. Either the counselors genuinely possess purely humanist motives, or they simply become prison guards wielding a dangerous and combustible amount of power and influence. Research any sociological study done on purely neutral individuals separated into a prisoner/guard distinction, and without fail the initially passive volunteers chosen as guards will begin to act with disdain and elitist empowerment towards the randomly selected prisoners. And anybody who went to CEDU RS and had the pleasure of interacting with Russ Decker knows the degree of professionalism and selflessness CEDU demanded from their employees. (Read- Not, to, fucking, much.) The place was a business, absolutely. But you?re unintentionally highlighting the degree of depravity CEDU eventually sunk to. A cult at least strives for legitimate dedication and devotion from its converts towards the doctrine set forth from the leaders. CEDU didn?t give a fuck what the kids enrolled believed or felt. The only item of relevance came down to mere numbers at the end of the month. And playing with the lives of adolescents at a crucial stage in their development under the paltry pursuit of expanding currency is fucking unacceptable. And if you truly wish to defend the methods employed by CEDU, I genuinely feel a degree of sympathy for you. Those counselors had such a Caesar syndrome, its laughable and frightening at the same time. CEDU is the apex of the ageless axiom: Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Christ. Fucking Russ Decker.
-Kim H
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On 2005-12-22 15:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Boy oh boy these assertions really clarify what this site is about. And the kind of paranoia rampant among its frequent posters
CEDU was and is a business. Some of us think that it's a useful business which delivers structure, self-examination and changed social functioning in a way that helps oppositional self-destructive kids. Others think that the whole program is useless. Probably the truth is somewhere in the middle. I think that CEDU education clearly helped many of the kids that attended. They will tell you the same. It seems reasonable to assume that other kids were not helped by the CEDU method, there are many reasons why this might be so.
But a cult? That's sort of la-la land thinking isn't it? The earlier poster is right, the CEDU schools were and in fact are, simply boarding schools with a program that is advertised as being helpful to troubled teens.
You can agree or disagree with this premise without getting hysterical and talking about cults."
Are you fucking kidding me? Did you actually GO there and experience all of CEDU's wonderfulness? I tend to think not, either your a parent who thinks that it helped their kid and still does, a therapist who was sucked in by the advertising and believes in the propaganda OR a pro-cedu staff member from the past or currently re-organizing the "new schools". Either way you have no idea what you are talking about. I know of several kids who did not do drugs, were not sexually active did not do anything wrong and still got sent there and there were a handful of kids that did do that stuff (or made up lies that they did do that stuff even if they didn't - false cop-outs)? It's simple, none of the parents could handle thier children, so they made someone else do it under the gist that it would help their child. Either way we all ended up with the same vindicative programming, and there was no individialization. Before you diss the fact that it was a cult consider the fact that it was programming and mind control. If it was "emotional growth" there should have been QUALIFIED counselors
or therapist to handle kids INDIVIDUALLY. Since it was not individualized and we all went through this same "programming" don't you think that is a little bit suspicious? Considering the fact that mental health is based on person to person basis and not all people are the same. I went there and anyone else who went there knew in their gut what they were doing was wrong and just flat out wierd.
OH and you're right on the aspect that it was a business. A multi-billion dollar fraud.
As for paranoia, several organizations classify it as a cult. Those who experienced CEDU's mental brutality, that sought to attack the young mind at such a tender developing age and then viciously mutilated into some stepford children. Kids are kids and they make mistakes just like adults only they don't know better.
If it wasn't a cult and a real "School" why are there so many former students that were behind the rest of the age bracket in real school when they got out? The educational system was a joke 2-3 days a week and only 3-4 hours to read about stuff we already knew but the staff didn't and no homework! The basis of education and a school should be to learn about things educational not emotional. Learning in any school should have been educational with the basis of mathematic, science, english, etc. How much can you really learn about farm science and horse shit. Oh and being able to watch the news and discuss politics and find out what was going on in the real world would have been educational as well, but it was forbidden!
Oh one more thing, tell me why if most of the people that attended CEDU and its affiliate schools are now diagnosed with PTSD? Oh maybe because of years of mental abuse with cult-like standards!
BTW this website and these postings are meant to discuss and find meaning in what happened to us all. For most of us Cedu was hell. If you weren't a student you have no way of understanding what we went through.
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I agree that the CEDU schools were fucked up, but I believe it is missing some key components that would make it a cult.
1. Cults try to keep you with them forever. At CEDU, you did eventually graduate. When I was there, it was very easy to get kicked out, even. However, I heard that later on, it became more difficult, and kids would get shuttled around between schools, which makes it much more cult-like.
2. Cults deprive you of nutritional sustenance. Most of them will provide you with low protein meals that you can barely get by on. RMA had huge meals. You needed them in order to do the physical labor.
3. Cult members would "witness" others to try to join. While educational consultants would get paid to refer a parent to CEDU schools, it lacks the fervor that normally comes along with true cult members trying to recruit followers. Especially since the students were not a part of this process. They would sing the praises during tours, sure, but they were not compensated. Nor would they be so wrapped up in the process that they would adamantly talk to friends on the outside, trying to get them to join. The very structure of the school prohibited students from speaking to anyone on the outside about anything, which includes recruitment. They were not out on the street passing out pamphlets, nor were they pressured to reach a recruitment quota that ensured them better status within the cult. This, however, may have changed after I left. I don't know.
As a result, I found the schools to be very cult-like and it used cult tactics, but I don't believe it to be an actual cult, IMO. Mainly because of point 1. You did eventually graduate, and one of the key things about cults is that they want you with them indefinitely. For instance, many kids stayed with Synanon indefinitely by choice, and if memory serves, there was no structure in which you proceeded your way through the program until you reached a point where you graduated, unlike CEDU, where, after the Summit, it was time for you to go.
As for paranoia, several organizations classify it as a cult. Those who experienced CEDU's mental brutality, that sought to attack the young mind at such a tender developing age and then viciously mutilated into some stepford children. Kids are kids and they make mistakes just like adults only they don't know better.
Which organizations? I'm curious. I know that ISACCORP doesn't even formally have the CEDU schools on their watch list. This is all they mention:
"The CEDU Schools were founded by Mel Wasserman after he spent time sponsoring a participant of Synanon. Experts have classified Synanon as a cult as well.
Former students of the CEDU schools have complained of "brainwashing" and other cult tactics."
(Link: http://www.isaccorp.org/cults.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/cults.html) )
All it does is quote alumni. CEDU is not on their big watch list of schools to avoid. (List here: http://www.isaccorp.org/watchlist.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/watchlist.html) )It used to have King George on there, but I just checked and it was taken off. I have no idea why none of the CEDU schools are listed, because they really need to be. It's not because they closed, either, because they list Tranquility Bay on there, and mention that it is closed, but trying to reopen. And King George is also still open.
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 19:02 ]
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"Oh one more thing, tell me why if most of the people that attended CEDU and its affiliate schools are now diagnosed with PTSD? Oh maybe because of years of mental abuse with cult-like standards!"
What are you talking about?
What evidence do you have that most of the people who attended CEDU school are now diagnosed with PTSD?
Face it, you have no evidence at all. If you did in fact have evidence that a majority of the students who attended these schools had PTSD, then the schools would be closed. Even outlawed.
What you do have, in total reality, as far as I can see, is a few persistent posters who feel that they were hurt by these programs.
I see no evidence that most CEDU attendees have PTSD or any other mental illness. If you have that evidence, please present it.
At the minimum, try to be a little bit rational in your critiques of these schools.
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Well I have PTSD from Cedu. I have nightmares that I am still at the school. When ever I get near a farm my heart starts to beat real fast because when I was at Cedu the days we work on the farm were rap days and it was time that we were going to get yelled at, When ever I am pulled aside I get nervious that I will be yelled at, I have to walk on egg shells with many people because I am afraid that I will make them made at me and thus yell at me. I was yelled at by faculity at Cedu who were not trained and they have caused much damage in my life. At Cedu they made you feel like you were worth nothing and they expected you to use their tools to fix it. Well most of their tools are common phrases that you can find on the internet. None of the shit that Cedu preeched ever worked on the outside for me.
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On 2005-12-22 20:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Face it, you have no evidence at all. If you did in fact have evidence that a majority of the students who attended these schools had PTSD, then the schools would be closed."
Well the last time I checked, almost all of them are closed!
Cedu Highschool(RS).....CLOSED!
Cedu Middleschool.......CLOSED!
Cascade.................CLOSED!
Amity School............CLOSED!
Cedu Milestones.........CLOSED!
Rocky Mountain Academy..CLOSED!
Northwest Academy.......CLOSED!
Boulder Creek Academy...CLOSED!
Now I realize that yhe provo people bought and "reopened" the Idaho facilities, but as I understand it, the current combined total student body of all 3 of them is like 8 kids
right now. Eight kids might be enough to form a gang, but they still don't constitute a "school", let alone several.
The fact is, the only one of your kid prisons that hasn't been shut down yet is King George
School. What more proof do you need?
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thank you to whomever it was that posted the list of cult tactics. And the discussion since has been intruiging. Castle makes an interesting point in trying to defing "being a a cult", and "acting like a cult". I'll ask him to keep in mind that it would be fair to say a %5 turnover rate of grads becoming staff at one institution or another within a few years. I even thought about it. So there were elements that indicate that if you summitted, you were always welcome back. That there weren't more "cedu" geared groups and support in different areas of the country post cedu says much. It shows how much they really cared about us as people, not dollars, and ALSO it does show that they did NOT practice true retention tactics. I conceed to that. But some people were not so strong as to ever find the strength to carry on from points in their lives lends itself to damage inflicted at such a distinguishing developmental period of life. That it practiced as a cult is in many ways incontravertable. That it was in other periods an "emotional growth boarding school", which is how I described it to people for like 10 years- is also true. What difference does it make? They were tinkering with people- young people from diverse backgrounds, supposedly there for being struggling or troubled- under the pretenses of KNOWING what was right. If you didn't agree you didn't make it through. You had to succomb when I was there. There weren't like regular boarding school antics or underground at all, really. It was totalitarian. That, in it's all encomopassing shell should be enough to show that students, and ex- studnets of these schools WILL and DO have a harder time reintegrating into "the real world".
To the persons who doubt the existance of PTSD in former students of these schools (while I was there)I have a couple of comments:
Factual information is not available and if it were I am confident that if interviewed or asked to fill out yes/no questionaires would tally to show that methods were employed that dinkered with their social funtioning. Ex-students or staff who are dead of overdosing and suicide would show that it has a higher percentage than most "boarding schools" in the country.
Though I cannot provide evidence of my claim, I will back it up passionately with a hearty "FUCK YOU", and come over there to your house and bleed all over your persian in the name of abuses incurred inside my adolescent mind, ya asshole.
-blownaway
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" If it was "emotional growth" there should have been QUALIFIED counselors or therapist to handle kids INDIVIDUALLY. Since it was not individualized and we all went through this same "programming" don't you think that is a little bit suspicious? Considering the fact that mental health is based on person to person basis and not all people are the same. I went there and anyone else who went there knew in their gut what they were doing was wrong and just flat out wierd. "
Very good point! Why weren't there any QUALIFIED AND EDUCATED WITH PROPER DEGREES staff members that worked as facilitors and house-heads working there? And why wasn't it taught on an individual student to student platform, were we really all there to be fixed of the same problem, we all went there for different reasons, all people are differnt, all minds are different but one way to fix everything for everyone. Not right at all.
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Nice that my comments on PTSD occurrence at these schools gave you an opportunity to vent bucko.
However a "hearty fuck you" really doesn't substitute for actual proof, that is statistically sound or even any statistical information. I repeat: where is the proof that the majority of emotional growth schools attendees have PTSD?
It appear the answer is that there is no such proof. And that your reaction to being called on logically is to have a little temper tantrum and toss around the "F" word, volunteer to bleed on people. etc.
Grow up little fella. It's legitimate to ask for facts. That's how people, grown up mature people sort out what is true and what is ranting.
Hear you're a "writer" BlownAway. You know, being a "writer" can be something useful and interesting, calling yourself a "writer" can also be a never-ending cover for not accomplishing much is life. Cuz you're in the process of coming up with a best-seller, right? You're just not quite there yet.
Reminds me of the pothead who sits at home staring at the tube all day and telling everyone he's studying the dynamics of TV today because he's going to write a script for a new blockbuster TV series.
Blown--hey what got "blownaway up there in Idaho? Was it your brains by any chance? Or maybe some lower part of your anatomy by one of your dorm mate for example?
If your little snit earlier is an example of your "writing" here's five kind words for you: DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB"
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You really hurt my feelings. It's ok. I forgive you.
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On 2005-12-23 10:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Nice that my comments on PTSD occurrence at these schools gave you an opportunity to vent bucko.
However a "hearty fuck you" really doesn't substitute for actual proof, that is statistically sound or even any statistical information. I repeat: where is the proof that the majority of emotional growth schools attendees have PTSD?
It appear the answer is that there is no such proof. And that your reaction to being called on logically is to have a little temper tantrum and toss around the "F" word, volunteer to bleed on people. etc.
Grow up little fella. It's legitimate to ask for facts. That's how people, grown up mature people sort out what is true and what is ranting.
Hear you're a "writer" BlownAway. You know, being a "writer" can be something useful and interesting, calling yourself a "writer" can also be a never-ending cover for not accomplishing much is life. Cuz you're in the process of coming up with a best-seller, right? You're just not quite there yet.
Reminds me of the pothead who sits at home staring at the tube all day and telling everyone he's studying the dynamics of TV today because he's going to write a script for a new blockbuster TV series.
Blown--hey what got "blownaway up there in Idaho? Was it your brains by any chance? Or maybe some lower part of your anatomy by one of your dorm mate for example?
If your little snit earlier is an example of your "writing" here's five kind words for you: DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB""
Wow those are some pretty heavy words to use. Sounds like an indictment in a rap. Yeah, lets tear someone down and make them feel like shit about themselves, oh the Cedu way. You sure sound like a underqualified staff member from Cedu who ran raps and who knows absolutely nothing about how to treat people let alone kids. Really nice support words for someone who might have PTSD, or is it that tough love bullshit that Cedu taught.
Blownaway, I feel for you. Keep on writing and make a difference in the world! Write a book and expose these WWASP schools for the abusive fraunds they are. As for dipshit who wrote the quote and who seems to know everything we don't want to hear your bullshit cedu tactics. You can sit with that and lets move on.
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On 2005-12-23 08:20:00, blownawaytheidahoway wrote:
I'll ask him to keep in mind that it would be fair to say a %5 turnover rate of grads becoming staff at one institution or another within a few years.
Like this one posting to me.
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probably the animal fucker, blownaway.
lol
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On 2005-12-22 18:25:00, sorry... try another castle wrote:
"I agree that the CEDU schools were fucked up, but I believe it is missing some key components that would make it a cult.
1. Cults try to keep you with them forever. At CEDU, you did eventually graduate. When I was there, it was very easy to get kicked out, even. However, I heard that later on, it became more difficult, and kids would get shuttled around between schools, which makes it much more cult-like.
2. Cults deprive you of nutritional sustenance. Most of them will provide you with low protein meals that you can barely get by on. RMA had huge meals. You needed them in order to do the physical labor.
3. Cult members would "witness" others to try to join. While educational consultants would get paid to refer a parent to CEDU schools, it lacks the fervor that normally comes along with true cult members trying to recruit followers. Especially since the students were not a part of this process. They would sing the praises during tours, sure, but they were not compensated. Nor would they be so wrapped up in the process that they would adamantly talk to friends on the outside, trying to get them to join. The very structure of the school prohibited students from speaking to anyone on the outside about anything, which includes recruitment. They were not out on the street passing out pamphlets, nor were they pressured to reach a recruitment quota that ensured them better status within the cult. This, however, may have changed after I left. I don't know.
As a result, I found the schools to be very cult-like and it used cult tactics, but I don't believe it to be an actual cult, IMO. Mainly because of point 1. You did eventually graduate, and one of the key things about cults is that they want you with them indefinitely. For instance, many kids stayed with Synanon indefinitely by choice, and if memory serves, there was no structure in which you proceeded your way through the program until you reached a point where you graduated, unlike CEDU, where, after the Summit, it was time for you to go.
As for paranoia, several organizations classify it as a cult. Those who experienced CEDU's mental brutality, that sought to attack the young mind at such a tender developing age and then viciously mutilated into some stepford children. Kids are kids and they make mistakes just like adults only they don't know better.
Which organizations? I'm curious. I know that ISACCORP doesn't even formally have the CEDU schools on their watch list. This is all they mention:
"The CEDU Schools were founded by Mel Wasserman after he spent time sponsoring a participant of Synanon. Experts have classified Synanon as a cult as well.
Former students of the CEDU schools have complained of "brainwashing" and other cult tactics."
(Link: http://www.isaccorp.org/cults.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/cults.html) )
All it does is quote alumni. CEDU is not on their big watch list of schools to avoid. (List here: http://www.isaccorp.org/watchlist.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/watchlist.html) )It used to have King George on there, but I just checked and it was taken off. I have no idea why none of the CEDU schools are listed, because they really need to be. It's not because they closed, either, because they list Tranquility Bay on there, and mention that it is closed, but trying to reopen. And King George is also still open.
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...(http://http://www.wholenotherthing.com/Images/anothercastle.jpg)[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2005-12-22 18:27 ][ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2005-12-22 18:28 ]"
Cults usually have more than one following and aren't always the religious variety, WWASP schools are cultish.
http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.html (http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsam.html)
Fact remains it still stems from Straight and Synanon, which is definately classified as a cult. Read some postings and do a little research they have PTSD. If you went there as a student you just might too. If you didn't you have NO IDEA what your talking about!
Another fact to keep in mind is that it was extremely abusive to the core. And that is just wrong on so many levels. So before we dismiss the fact it was a cult lets look at the tactics invovled they seem cultish, there are so many and that posting on all the signs speaks for itself. If you are denied family and friend contact, sleep depervation, unusual terminolgy, confrontation therapy, and the fact that no one was license in the psychology realm who did do the "therapy", and it was all about the money then that seems like a cult to me. Brainwashing and programming come to mind too and those are tactics of a cult. No one was truly happy there, and if they were they were disillusioned by the bullshit programming. Let me ask you this, after all that that we all went through WHAT DID WE EVEN GET FROM CEDU EXCEPT MORE CONFUSION? WHAT TEACHINGS THERE EVEN HELP US IN THE OUTSIDE WORLD? A REAL school would have prepared us acedemically for college and for our future adult lives. Cedu crushed our future and left us with confusion and emotional trama.
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Who ever doubts that Cedu causes PTSD just come and talk to me. I put the fact out on the table in a earlier post
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I intend you no ill will. I did report to the local authorities.
I said I reported to the state. That is Children's Services.
Please read my post carefully.
You cannot implement a citizens' arrest for the things I saw.
I never, ever implied that my experiences were equivalent to that of the students. That would be inappropriate and disrespectful.
I did not imply that anyone was attacking me. I'm kind of feeling that way now, though!
I am sorry for your experience but I am not responsible for it. I had a family to support. As soon as I saw what was going on, I started looking for a job, and I reported the place. Very few employees have the courage to do that... even though I was not a CEDU employee, I reported with the assistance of an attorney. It was pretty scary to me.
I did everything I could do to help those kids. When I was fired, there was an epidemic of parents pulling kids. That is interesting to me.
No one here has any reason to criticize me or hold ill will toward me. I think it is amazing that with my limited experience, I was hurt by CEDU. My point is that if this happened to me, how much worse was it for the kids? I cannot imagine.
And for the person who says it was not a cult - it was. Cults control your social contacts, restrict your freedom, and feed you information they want you to adopt. Of course there are much worse cults, but that does not diminish the fact that CEDU was a cult. I saw parents who were influenced by it. They were fearful for their kids' futures. They had weekends where they were bullied like the kids. Many of the parents said it was good for them. I explained that they had enendorphin experience and that true enlightenment does not feel the way they felt.
I did some good there. For you to say my saying I was traumatized is "full of shit" is unkind. I am in no way claiming to know what it felt like to be a kid there. You are reading into my post things that are not there.
There is not any ill will in me toward anyone at this site - except for Ottawa, of course. But she appears to be gone.
On 2005-12-22 15:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Mr. Therapist I never went on the attack I simply asked if there was a problem then why didn't you do something about it. If you can face the heat then to bad. If the state was suspicious and you knew that what they were doing was breaking the law then why didn't go to the local authorities. Have you ever heard of citzens arrest, or the Department of Children Services. I am sorry that you did get fired, but to know that were traumatized for your stay there I find to be full of shit. You were not yelled at 2-3 days week for almost three years. you did not have to rake and haul animal crap, cut wood, and have almost know form of an education. About 20percent of my so called school credits from Cedu would not transfer and when I graduated I was a grade behind my normal level."
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Yea, what the fuck was up with cedu teaching classes that didn't mean shit when you went back to a normal high school? Was that supposed to be their way of punishing you for not staying and getting your diploma at cedu?
Fuck all you cedu staff. I don't care if you were trying to help us or not. You're guilty by fucking association. That place couldn't have existed if staff hadn't willingly shown up every day to work.
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Fact remains it still stems from Straight and Synanon, which is definately classified as a cult. Read some postings and do a little research they have PTSD. If you went there as a student you just might too. If you didn't you have NO IDEA what your talking about!
Actually, I believe I said in that post that I did indeed go there. I wrote
This, however, may have changed after I left. I don't know.
Sorry if you missed that part.
Unless you are asking if I went to straight or synanon, which I did not.
I think, however, that based on the testimony I have heard from people who were in straight, their experience was much harsher and more brutal than what we went through. (I personally think that straight makes CEDU look like a resort spa. But it's also important to note that CEDU went through many incarnations, and my experience may be different from someone who was there in the 90s or 00s. I've heard that when I was there, the program was more coercive and more difficult to resist, but later on after I left there were more accounts of structural abuse, such as the introduction of Ascent and jumpsuits, for example.)
However, that's beside the point as to whether or not CEDU itself was a cult. And furthermore, whether CEDU was a cult or not still does not erase the fact that the experience itself was very disturbing and weird. I want that to be clear, that just because I find the CEDU schools to be missing some key components that would qualify it as a cult, that does not mean that its behavior and practices don't make it any less damaging to many alumni.
In fact, whether it was cult-like and used cult-like tactics only or whether is was a full-blown cult may be a rather moot point, since the results of being in either are so similar. So they didn't keep you around forever and expect you to be a lifetime member residing at a commune. That's good, but so what?
Also, blownaway, you bring up a very good point about students coming back to teach as staff. I had not thought about that. You are right, that there is some retention. But I still wouldn't qualify it as intense or rigorous as say, a lifespring recruiter trying to draw people into the fold. Lifespring was a cult. We used the exact same workshop. However, we didn't have the pyramid scheme and zealous recruitment structure and expectations, nor did we want people to stay forever within the organization, which is what distinguishes CEDU from being a cult, IMO. The tactics were identical, but not the organizational infrastructure. Some people may see this as splitting hairs, but I see it as a huge, fundamental difference.
But like I said before, I don't really think it matters much, because the results on the participants are the same.
As for the PTSD, isn't there going to be a study launched regarding the after affects of people who attended behavior mod schools? I recall that they were gearing up to do a survey. It was in a thread in the troubled teen industry forum, here:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =20#130330 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=11442&forum=9&start=20#130330)
The link they referred to is here:
http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/cfsnews/2005news/A_START.html (http://cfs.fmhi.usf.edu/cfsnews/2005news/A_START.html)
However, I went to that link and didn't find any survey, so I don't know where they are at in terms of getting that going.
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On 2005-12-22 12:18:00, Son Of Serbia wrote:
"
On 2005-12-22 09:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Man, call that shithole cedu what you want, but a cult? Cedu was not a damn cult. Synanon was a cult. Cedu was a damn boarding school. Sure they made you stay up late, eat shitty sandwiches, and yell at the floor 9 (or 8, depending on when you were there) times during your stay. I hardly think that qualifies as a cult. "
Are you serious? Because if you are, then please tell me, how long have you been smoking crack?
The truth is that every part of the Cedu program was inspired by Synanon. Raps for instance were taken directly from a daily ritual practiced by Synannon's followers called "the Game". Synanon's founder: Charles E. Deidrich would gather his followers around him and then would proceed to verbally attack anyone he felt was "drifting outside of the group." (ie. thinking for themselves). In turn, the remaining participants would follow Deidrich in unison, and attack who ever he turned on.
Does any of this sound familiar to you? It should!
It is a well known fact that Mel Wasserman lived with Synannon during the sixties, and left with their blessing to start Cedu. Cedu originally stands for Charles E. Deidrich University, in honor of Mel's mentor.
What was that stupid saying staff always had? Hmm..Oh yeah, "You are what you do, not what you say you do." Well it seems to me that since
Cedu acts like a cult, then we all should call it one!
[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-12-22 12:21 ]"
Ok, it stems from a cult, therefore it IS a cult? That seems to be your logic. Just because a cult inspired CEDU doesn't mean that CEDU is a cult. I'd say the vast majority of cult members are willingly participating in their rituals. On the flipside, the vast majority of cedu students wanted absolutely nothing to do with the program. Those running a cult tend to be sold on its beliefs. But many of the staff at cedu were far from sold. So you can go ahead and keep calling it a cult, and I'll be here thinking that perhaps you are the one on crack.
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Serb's problem is he just can't accept anyone else's views. No wonder he has so many enemies around here.
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If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....IT must be a duck!
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To the Former Therapist:
First, I would like to say thank you! Thank you for trying to stop the injustice. Cedu was bigger than any few individuals (adults or children), and anyone who stood against them were in fact punished. Did the punishment ever fit the crime, no, there we never any crimes just out of Cedu's agreements. The only crime is what Cedu did and the damage is done.
As a therapist, it is heart warming to know that you just wanted to help and I am glad that you tried to do some good there. Sure you had to support your family and that is admirable. If you know in your heart that you did what you could, than you should be able to sleep at night.
THANK YOU for admitting it was a cult:
"And for the person who says it was not a cult - it was. Cults control your social contacts, restrict your freedom, and feed you information they want you to adopt. Of course there are much worse cults, but that does not diminish the fact that CEDU was a cult. I saw parents who were influenced by it. They were fearful for their kids' futures. They had weekends where they were bullied like the kids. Many of the parents said it was good for them. I explained that they had enendorphin experience and that true enlightenment does not feel the way they felt."
Finally, a qualified professional Therapist with a degree, can admit that, then there is much more validity to the postings regarding it was a cult.
AND BTW to the individuals who posted that it wasn't a cult. Why are you defending it, if something so good happened there why are so many people disenchanted by it and angry about what happened to them after all these years? I guess mind control goes a long way. Oh, and it was a pyramid scheme. Did you know that parents would get a month tuition knocked off if they refered someone. Kick backs to any staff that refered a student to another "school". Was commission worth our state of mind? And some former students did return because they were so crippled by the program they had no where else to go but back there. And you're right lifespring was a cult and also had the same formulas a Cedu only it affected adults not children but how many of those adults were already programmed by Cedu like schools? Do you know what went on in the offices to recruit people? The literature and the picture they painted sure sucked alot of people in not to mention word of mouth.
It was a billion dollar business and a underlying cult. Sometimes money is the root of all evil and this definately shows it.
On 2005-12-23 20:08:00, former CEDU therapist wrote:
"I intend you no ill will. I did report to the local authorities.
I said I reported to the state. That is Children's Services.
Please read my post carefully.
You cannot implement a citizens' arrest for the things I saw.
I never, ever implied that my experiences were equivalent to that of the students. That would be inappropriate and disrespectful.
I did not imply that anyone was attacking me. I'm kind of feeling that way now, though!
I am sorry for your experience but I am not responsible for it. I had a family to support. As soon as I saw what was going on, I started looking for a job, and I reported the place. Very few employees have the courage to do that... even though I was not a CEDU employee, I reported with the assistance of an attorney. It was pretty scary to me.
I did everything I could do to help those kids. When I was fired, there was an epidemic of parents pulling kids. That is interesting to me.
No one here has any reason to criticize me or hold ill will toward me. I think it is amazing that with my limited experience, I was hurt by CEDU. My point is that if this happened to me, how much worse was it for the kids? I cannot imagine.
And for the person who says it was not a cult - it was. Cults control your social contacts, restrict your freedom, and feed you information they want you to adopt. Of course there are much worse cults, but that does not diminish the fact that CEDU was a cult. I saw parents who were influenced by it. They were fearful for their kids' futures. They had weekends where they were bullied like the kids. Many of the parents said it was good for them. I explained that they had enendorphin experience and that true enlightenment does not feel the way they felt.
I did some good there. For you to say my saying I was traumatized is "full of shit" is unkind. I am in no way claiming to know what it felt like to be a kid there. You are reading into my post things that are not there.
There is not any ill will in me toward anyone at this site - except for Ottawa, of course. But she appears to be gone.
On 2005-12-22 15:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Mr. Therapist I never went on the attack I simply asked if there was a problem then why didn't you do something about it. If you can face the heat then to bad. If the state was suspicious and you knew that what they were doing was breaking the law then why didn't go to the local authorities. Have you ever heard of citzens arrest, or the Department of Children Services. I am sorry that you did get fired, but to know that were traumatized for your stay there I find to be full of shit. You were not yelled at 2-3 days week for almost three years. you did not have to rake and haul animal crap, cut wood, and have almost know form of an education. About 20percent of my so called school credits from Cedu would not transfer and when I graduated I was a grade behind my normal level."
"
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Mr. Therapist.
After reading your last posts I can see that you did all that you could have. I was wrong to come at you like I did I put you in the same category with the faculity that taught there and you were not. Since you mentioned that you did report it I will talk with a friend of mine who works with DCS and see she knows. Once again I am sorry you were the wrong person to take blame for what happened to me at Cedu. I made you out to be a scape goat and I should not have
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I can't make up my mind.
I've heard it said that he (or she) is not a real person, just a playful or sarcastic identity taken on by someone else who posts here.
And it's true, a lot of the stock phrases and ways of speaking in FormerCT's posts do sound like a caricature of a therapist or couselor ("I'm feeling...", "It is what it is.", and so on).
But also heard it said by someone who worked at CEDU that this is indeed a real ex-employee, the style of writing is pretty identifiable, who did in fact leave under a cloud of disagreement with the CEDU philosophy. "Not the sharpest tool in the shed, a bit naive, but well meaning" was the description given
So which is true do you think" is Former CEDU therapist a real person in disguise? Or a joke masquerading as a real person?
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AND BTW to the individuals who posted that it wasn't a cult. Why are you defending it, if something so good happened there why are so many people disenchanted by it and angry about what happened to them after all these years?
If you will re-read my posts carefully, you will see that I am not defending RMA or CEDU at all. I think they are fucked up places.
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Yea man, I'm not defending that place either. I called a shithole, in case you missed that. But it definitely, definitely, wasn't a fucking CULT.
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A CULT??!! :lol: :lol: jeez, You fuckers are stupid :lol:
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Pathetic is more like it. What, your fucking lives suck? Must be that CULT'S fault, huh. Fucking pathetic.
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Quack! and you are the followers still definding it! Ducks or sheep? :rofl:
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Again, not defending shit, asshole. I'm defending intelligence in general, because you have to be a complete moron to think CEDU was a cult. Call it what it was; a shithole.
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On 2005-12-25 14:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quack! and you are the followers still definding it! Ducks or sheep? :rofl: "
You have a very myopic way of looking at things. Not everything is black and white, and not everyone who disagrees with you is automatically a program supporter.
Ultimately, I reiterate the fact that it is moot whether CEDU was a cult or just cult-like, because the consequences of each scenario would essentially be the same, IMO. I probably never should have gone into detail about the differences anyway, and just stated this in the first place. It would have saved me a lot of typing. Oh well. Sometimes I have to process things in writing before I come to my final conclusion on the matter.
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....IT must be a duck!
Not necessarily. It could be a duck hunter. Or a duck robot, that came from a planet of duck robots, to take over our world.
It could also be a goose with species dysphoria. (Or maybe he's just doing it to piss off his parents.)
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[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 18:59 ]
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Hahaha, too true
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Not that smart is everything but it frquently makes it easier for people to abstract and think in ways that aren't black and white.
I see a whole lot of black-and-white, either-or-thinking at this site.
And I'm wondering if those who went to CEDU schools noticed that the best and the brightest among them are the ones who are better able to reflect on and see more than one aspect of their CEDU experience.
Or not. Either way it would be interesting to know: does being intelligent make it easier to have a balanced view of attending CEDU, the good and the bad moments, whether or not in the final analysis you thought these were in totality good schools or not.
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On 2005-12-26 17:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
balanced view of attending CEDU
Balanced? Or neutral? Sometimes, a well balanced, measured and thoughtful view of something is quite far from neutral. What would be a balanced view of Naziism? Stalinism? Rape? A fist fight? No synonym for God is so perfect as Beauty. Whether as seen carving the lines of the mountains with glaciers, or gathering matter into stars, or planning the movements of water, or gardening - still all is Beauty!
-- John Muir
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Well, I'm thinking maybe you misread. I was asking about "balanced" views. Never used the word "neutral" myself, I'm kind of wondering why it's your focus,
What I meant was that in life few experiences except maybe the Gulag did not have positive and negative aspects to them. And even the Gulag had pleasurable moments, read Alexander Soleznitsyn's work (sorry the spelling is likely off on the name but his work is easy to find).
Maybe these positive and negative aspects which make up balance have been discussed already although I didn't see them. Somebody introduced me to this site over the holiday so I sure haven't seen everything written here.
But one of my questions is: did there seem to be a relationship between having a balanced view of the school experience and being a smart, intelligence-wise kid. Or not.
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"
On 2005-12-22 09:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ok, it stems from a cult, therefore it IS a cult? That seems to be your logic. Just because a cult inspired CEDU doesn't mean that CEDU is a cult. I'd say the vast majority of cult members are willingly participating in their rituals. On the flipside, the vast majority of cedu students wanted absolutely nothing to do with the program. Those running a cult tend to be sold on its beliefs. But many of the staff at cedu were far from sold. So you can go ahead and keep calling it a cult, and I'll be here thinking that perhaps you are the one on crack. "
I agree that many staff at cedu weren't completetely sold on the program, but did any of those staff ever command a position of real authority or influence within the organization? No, they NEVER did. The people who made the decisions at Cedu were indeed solid on it's beliefs & values. Only a person totally brainwashed and on crack would believe otherwise.
I too believe that the vast majority of kids at cedu wanted nothing to do with the program, and as I said before: there were indeed staff who had their doubts as well. However, whether or not they wanted to,EVERYONE did in fact participate in Cedu's cult-inspired rituals. So why did so many people take part in something they wanted nothing to do with? I'll tell you why: Fear, the Fear of what would happen to them if they refused.
Cults almost always claim that a greater love, higher purpose, & understanding of the world around us, is what draws and binds them together. They believe that this makes them superior to the rest of us. Does any of this sound familar? Because It should if you ever sat through "First Light" or whatever they called morning meetings at your respective Cedu prison. Cedu preached that same shit to us every day.
Yet despite all of those claims, the truth is: that while promises of enlightenment and belonging may draw people to cults, FEAR is actually what keeps them there. Cult leaders thrive on fear. Cult members are constantly reminded (threatened) about what would happen to them if they ever "betrayed the family". Fear not only keeps people in cults, it keeps them silent, even when they do find the strength to escape.
And fear is what kept kids at cedu, fear of lock-up, jail, living on the streets, not graduating, being anally raped, dying, never seeing our families again, and all the other shit Cedu staff threatened us with if we didn't "get with the program."
Say what you want, but the similarities between Cedu and documented cults like Synanon are far greater, than those between Cedu and REAL schools. Hell, you yourself admitted that "Cedu stems from a cult" (namely Synanon).
Regardless of how you feel about it, I would like to repeat the so called "tool" I quoted from earlier Cedu's retarded philosophy:
"You are what you do, not what you say you do."
Whether or not Cedu is in fact a "true cult", they do indeed "Act like a cult" in every
way. This means that Cedu must be a Cult by their own definition! ::both::
One last thing, why would someone who alledgedly hates cedu, get so bent out of shape when others call it a cult? The answer is simple: You don't hate cedu at all, in fact, I believe that you indentify yourself with Cedu, which is why you get so offended when others point out what it really is, a cult!
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-12-27 12:18 ]
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On 2005-12-27 07:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Maybe these positive and negative aspects which make up balance have been discussed already although I didn't see them. Somebody introduced me to this site over the holiday so I sure haven't seen everything written here.
But one of my questions is: did there seem to be a relationship between having a balanced view of the school experience and being a smart, intelligence-wise kid. Or not."
You're full of it, because this isn't the first time you've come here looking for "balanced views" (ie. justification of cedu's abusive methods) on Cedu. And this certainly isn't the first time that you've accused people of being less intelligent for exhibitting what you describe as "black & white thinking."
Y'know something, there is another word for
what you call black & white, it's "Right and Wrong". Some of us know the difference, and some of us don't.
The worst people of all are those who know the difference, but choose to ignore it, and allow wrong doing to continue. They alledge that everything is open interpretation, and use this to justify their unsavory behavior. They dismiss their critics as being ignorant, and unable to see the bigger picture. Such people act that way because they personally gain from doing so.
I think that you belong to the latter category. Call it a hunch, but I bet that you're a lawyer, aren't you? You're probably that that spineless worm Jackson Nash trolling the site again.
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-12-27 12:17 ]
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Michael Algood, CEDU, Mel Wasserman etc.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=9&4 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13179&forum=9&4)
Police fear abuse of hundreds of teens
By John Ween
Tarzana Times staff reporter
A man arrested last month in Southern California on suspicion of false imprisonment of two California boys may be one of the most deceptive people in the country, say police in Redding, Calif.
Michael Allgood , 58, who has several convictions for false imprisonment of minors , was arrested December 23 in Tarzana,CA while visiting a longtime friend and may be extradited to Redding. He is being held without bail in connection with the false imprisonment of two boys.
During a search of Allgood's Shasta County home, police discovered seven spiral notebooks with 360 pages of handwritten lists of names of boys and their descriptions as well as codes that police say indicate various abusive acts. Police estimate the lists chronicle 2,000 incidents and at least hundreds of victims. Some of the names are listed multiple times. Police could not say whether each entry represented a physical or mental abuse assault.
"If it turns out these numbers are true, then he may go down in history as the most manipulative and deceitful child abusers we've ever seen in Shasta County and one of the biggest in the State," Shasta County Lt. Scott Kiuyi said.
The names on the lists were categorized according to the type of abuse acts, the age of the boys and other codes whose meaning is unclear ? such as an "F" or "X" at the end of the entry.
There are no dates on the lists, but police suspect they may go back as far as 30 years, and they include the names of some cities such as Whitmore, CA, Running Springs, CA , Bonner's Ferry, ID . Allgood has lived in or traveled to Washington, New York, Idaho, Oregon, California and Italy . Police said he had been concealing his identity for the past year and has used numerous aliases. It also appears he has not registered as a repeat offender as required by law, police said.
The search of Allgood's home also turned up a computer server and several computers. Police have sent the equipment to a crime lab. Also found were several binders containing hundreds of images of child pornography, according to Redding police spokesman Ken Mayo.
Police also arrested Allgood's accomplice ? another convicted child abuser ? Eric Von Melzer. Melzer was wanted for violating parole in Oregon related to child-aggravation convictions, and also was charged with child aggravation in Redding, including at least one count involving one of Allgood's two alleged victims.
In Shasta County, Allgood was charged in February 1997 with one count of communication with a minor for immoral purposes. He was acquitted later that year by a Shasta County Superior Court jury.
According to Shasta County court records, Allgood, who was 50 at the time, was accused of false imprisonment of two brothers, ages 16 and 14, during a four-month period in 1997. The boys described Allgood as being vindictive towards them because their parents were trying to remove them from the school. Cascade closed its doors in January 2004 to avoid being shut down by the State regulation board . Parents had been removing their teens amid allegations of coerced sex parties facilitated by Allgood and his second wife. Parents were allegedly lied to by Allgood who told them they were emotional growth workshops meant to build self esteem .
In 1980, the California Supreme Court threw out a 1978 conviction for molesting two 14-year-old boys and characterized Allgood as a "repeat offender" who "uses his intelligence to take advantage of the weak and oppressed and those who are in need." After working at the Cedu Foundation School in Running Springs , Allgood moved to Whitmore, CA allegedly to avoid being arrested for false imprisonment of students at the school. Parents had begun complaining of not being allowed to see their children after recieving telephone calls from the San Bernadino County Sheriff's Department . Allgood allegedly lied to Sheriff's Deputys and told them teens were not being held against their will .
Interviews with Teens who were able to hitchhike home revealed that many were threatened with their lives if they escaped on their own or by leaving with parent's on day visits and not returning. Stories of Cult like behavior and extreme coercion to perform sex acts on group leaders also known as Family Heads were detailed in many Sheriff's Department reports. The teens were told that part of the program was to "be in agreement" which meant they were coerced into participating against their will by the use of terrorist threats or a punishment called "Full Time". Full Time consisted of being forced to wash dishes all day for three months . Parents would be lied to and decieved by Allgood in telephone calls telling them that their child had engaged in a "sex contract" with another teen when in reality the teen had refused to participate in sex acts with Family Heads. Teens who fought off the attacks by Family Heads were accused of being violent and threated with being sent to Provo, UT , a locked facility . Parents were told by Allgood to lie to Teens and tell them to follow agreements or be sent to Provo. The deceptive practices were discovered when parents began taping phone calls and discovered that Allgood had been lying to them. Allgood's rational for lying to parents and teens was that most teens who leave eventually want to come back because of the strong bond created by peer groups. The kool aid mentality created by the school sprang out of the Synanon drug treatment cult of the 1960's.
Cedu was founded in 1967 by Mel Wasserman who was forced to sell Cedu in the late 1980's to avoid being indicted for money laundering involving Organized Crime figures in Palm Springs where he had once resided . Although promoting itself as an emotional growth facility , investigators believe that it was really a front for money laundering and tax evasion . Investigators believe that the Foundation extorted money from parents and contributors including grants and wealthy individuals by telling them it was for Overhead when the money was really going into the bank accounts of Wasserman and his family members .
Suspicions were raised by the large bank accounts of Family Heads and the persistant extortion of students and parents under the guise of tuition hikes. Such practices are said to have been carried over to the Cascade School and many speculate that as being another cause of declining enrollment . The mass retirement at the same time of many Cascade Family Heads is fueling speculation that this may be a conspiracy and a way to avoid investigation into the personal assets of each Family Head. The sudden reemergence of a terminal skin cancer condition of former Allgood common law wife Danielle Ogby is said to be an attempt to avoid a long prison term for laundering drug money from a southern california methamphetamine lab that was started with the proceeds from a 1990 divorce settlement from Allgood . Ogby's attorney would not comment on allegations that Ogby sold drugs to finance a lavish lifestyle with Allgood while promoting Cascade as being an Anti-Drug and Pro-Family values emotional growth residential treatment center .
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This is not a valid article.
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Looks pretty valid to me!
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I may have no respect for Allgood, but it's still plain as day that article is a fake. No journalist has writing skills that poor. You weaken every argument against that pathetic man with shit like that, you know?
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The author may not be a great writer, but the article is real, and it's content is indeed factual. By the way, Telling the truth about Algood could never "weaken every argument against him", and your own pathetic attempts to refute the evidence won't weaken those arguments either. Nice try though, better luck next time.
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Cedu was founded in 1967 by Mel Wasserman who was forced to sell Cedu in the late 1980's to avoid being indicted for money laundering involving Organized Crime figures in Palm Springs where he had once resided .
Maybe this is just a typo, but Mel sold the CEDU schools in the 90s, not 80s. I graduated in 89, and at that time, he was still running the school. I believe Brown bought the CEDU schools in 98.
I remember when that happened re: Allgood and his little black book of all of the kids he had molested. I had no idea that was the guy who ran Cascade when I read an article about it in the news, and when I finally learned more about Cascade, I totally forgot the name of the guy who had molested all of those kids. It's not surprising that it was Allgood, even though I myself didn't go to Cascade. The CEDU schools and Cascade were magnets for child molesters. I remember when Richard ran his hand up a friend on mine's shirt. They had a big meeting about it with her, decided that the whole thing was an "accident", and keeps him on. Years later he is taken to court for raping Twila. As if there was any doubt he was a sexual predator, anyway.
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[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 18:58 ]
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Maybe he is pathetic. I, personally, don't know him or never witnessed anything he did at Cascade or elsewhere. I have read some pretty horrible things on this site, though. I am not disagreeing with anyone about whether what he is accused of is horrible or not, but... I think those that are trying to change or even eliminate this corrupt industry need to back up the allegations with FACTS. That's all. If this is a REAL article... then that is one more piece of evidence we can share with parents to prove these programs are bogus.... but, if it is FAKE... then it's like those that are pro-program have another piece of evidence that those on this site are full of it. Make sense?
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That really happened re: finding a guy with extensive cataloguing of his young male victims, and it WAS estimated that the head count was in the thousands. The bust occurred sometime this year.
Here is the link to the case I was talking about:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... DAA0G1.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/17/MNG67DAA0G1.DTL)
The guy's name is Schwartzmiller, and the head count is 36,000. He kept notebooks of his victims, which also included repeat offenses of the same victim. This was the case that I remember.
There's also another guy in England, William Goad. His victim count was 3000, but he didn't keep notebooks.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm ... _page.html (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/tm_objectid=14718733&method=full&siteid=50143&headline=britain-s-worst-paedophile-name_page.html)
I have no idea if Allgood also did this, but I did a google search on "michael allgood" along with the word "molest", and the only links that accused Allgood of molesting kids were on fornits. The other hits did not state this. I could not find any news articles.
I'm not saying he didn't do anything, I'm just saying that I couldn't find any articles.
Even if he didn't, there was plenty of sexual relations going on between staff and kids in the CEDU schools, and I would assume the same thing went on at Cascade.
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[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 18:58 ]
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This could be faked. I Googled Tarzana Times and John Ween and came up empty.
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that's not to say that Algood hasn't done everything that the 'article' says, just that I didn't come up with anything Googling the author or the publication.
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Son of Serbia, don't know what kind of burr you've got under your saddle. I don't know Jackson Nash and I'm no lawyer so I guess you're not the clairvoyent you fancy yourself to me
You'd think I was your worst enemy from your hot-headed response Worst I've done as far as I can see is not ask you if Ive got a right to my own opinion without first clearing it with you, bud.
So given your attitude (which might or might not get cured by drugs or getting laid more regularly) I don't see any point in addressing my question to you, feel free to rant though, it doesn't cost me a cent!
But the question stands and I welcome responses from other readers who are less easily riled up than you seem to be.
And that question is: do you think that intellectually brighter people from these schools tended to have an easier time in defining positive as well as negative aspects of their school experiences.
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I always post anonymously because I don't welcome the attacks when I am say something positive about my time at a CEDU school. I will also be the first to admit that there were some really shitty things done to me/kids while I was there... but, I will also say that I made some of the best friends of my life while I was there. I also learned more about myself during that time than I think I would have learned had I not gone to RMA. Maybe I am/was brainwashed. I doubt it. But for every horrible staff person that was there, I knew of others that truly cared about me and the other kids there. No, I do not agree with some of the tactics that were used. But, I also think that wherever you go, there is going to be negatives. I, personally, think that our public school system is fucked up. I don't like the fact that my kids have to go through a metal detector upon their arrival. I don't like that my daughter is going in class with pregnant teens. I don't like that my son witnesses teachers getting in the face of students yelling and swearing at them on a daily basis. I don't like quetioning whether my kids are safe when they go to church outings or other social events.
I, personally, am not angry about my experience. Was it perfect? No... but my actions prior to being sent there were not perfect. I was not the ideal student, perfect teen. I was not your law abiding teenager looking for my next community service project. I was not driven by excellence. I was not psasionate by a hobby, sport, or group. I was enthusiastic about living on the edge. I was excited about where and when I was going to get high again. It was a rush for me to see how long I could be "on the run" without getting caught. I had spent time in juvie. I had spent itme in a psych hospital. I did not like those places.
I don't get angry about RMA. There was a time when I used to think about my time there and question some of what I experienced. But, I choose to focus on what is positive about my time there. There are plenty of other chapters in my life where negative energy can be focused. Maybe it comes with age. As I approach 40 (yes.... just a few more years), I choose be angry about true injustices... I read about 7 children that were loced in a barren room at a foster home. I read of other kids that have been locked in closets for years. I have read about children that are kept in cages. Another that was made to eat out of a dog dish. I have a friend that works with Asian girls that have been sex slaves since they were sold at 5. I think about the millions of people that live in poverty every day.
My daughter's best friend lives in a Habitat for Humanity house. She is 4 older siblings, the oldest being a senior in high school. Her mother weighs a mere 80 pounds and is dying a horrible death. The siblings fight over who has to stay home from school to take care of her.
The above examples describe horrible childhoods. Horrible. Was mine peachy? Did I loose a parent at a young age. Yes. horrible. Sad. Was I yelled at in RAPS by Caroline Wolfe and others and called some really f-ed up names. Yes. I was. Was I deprived of sleep and food and made to work stocking wood and pushing wheel barrows more than 8 hours per day.... yes. Does it define me???? No. Am I angry? No. Were there good things that happened to me in Idaho. Yes, there were.
This industry is not perfect. I will be the first to stand up and say so. But... what industry that works with people is???? our medical system? Our hospitals? More people die every year from medical mistakes than heart attacks. Is our welfare system perfect? Our social services? Our education system? Truth be told... there is corruption EVERYWHERE.
Ok... enough ranting and venting. If you got this far... thanks for reading.
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Yes, public schools are generally fucked up. Moreso in urban settings. Grow some damned balls and take your kids out of that mess. Or just teach them the quiet, desperate resignation that you seem to have mastered.
Your choice. Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.
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Are you a parent?
I don't live in an urban area. The idea that public schools are more screwed up in urban ares is a myth.
Second. where would you suggest that I have them go to school? Private school? Did that too. It is not much different.
Third: "quiet, desperate resignation"... HA. You would laugh at that description if you knew me. I have done anything but MASTER that way of life!!!!
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Why don't you send them to a Cedu like school, it didn't seem to phase you while you were there and they can make some really long lasting friends. Sure they are going to get yelled at but that's okay metal abuse will make them stronger and they can focus on more postive things later in life.
I heard some really great horror stories about such places like Tranquility Bay and Casa by the Sea, but its all myth right bad things don't happen in WWASP Schools or if they do they're not that bad? Doesn't make a difference to an individual stuck in a situation like that because there are more horrors in the world than a place like Cedu, so what we all went through should be dismissed because it wasn't that bad? Perhaps for you and you came to terms with it, maybe your kids will too.
On 2005-12-27 18:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Are you a parent?
I don't live in an urban area. The idea that public schools are more screwed up in urban ares is a myth.
Second. where would you suggest that I have them go to school? Private school? Did that too. It is not much different.
Third: "quiet, desperate resignation"... HA. You would laugh at that description if you knew me. I have done anything but MASTER that way of life!!!!"
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Thank you anon poster:
And it's disingenous of the poster subsequent to you to suggest that observing something good while going in a CEDU school means that you should automatically remove your own children from an admittedly flawed public school. And place them absent compelling reasons and behaviors in an emotional growth school.
Common sense and the wish to keep your own children close to you, if not the financial toll of CEDU and like programs, would be enough to show that a parent would only resort to this kind of boarding school if all other options represent too big a risk, either physical or mental.
If a CEDU type education, which is by its very nature not the ideal up-bringing, atill has value amidst the damaging things that happened there, well, what are the valuable things: how can they be perfected, put into a usable form that helps adolescents and does not include the more potentially damaging rituals/approaches that emotional growth schools have used in the past?
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I would have graduated in '90, who are you?
On 2005-12-27 14:31:00, sorry... try another castle wrote:
"Cedu was founded in 1967 by Mel Wasserman who was forced to sell Cedu in the late 1980's to avoid being indicted for money laundering involving Organized Crime figures in Palm Springs where he had once resided .
Maybe this is just a typo, but Mel sold the CEDU schools in the 90s, not 80s. I graduated in 89, and at that time, he was still running the school. I believe Brown bought the CEDU schools in 98.
I remember when that happened re: Allgood and his little black book of all of the kids he had molested. I had no idea that was the guy who ran Cascade when I read an article about it in the news, and when I finally learned more about Cascade, I totally forgot the name of the guy who had molested all of those kids. It's not surprising that it was Allgood, even though I myself didn't go to Cascade. The CEDU schools and Cascade were magnets for child molesters. I remember when Richard ran his hand up a friend on mine's shirt. They had a big meeting about it with her, decided that the whole thing was an "accident", and keeps him on. Years later he is taken to court for raping Twila. As if there was any doubt he was a sexual predator, anyway.
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...(http://http://www.wholenotherthing.com/Images/anothercastle.jpg)[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2005-12-27 14:32 ]"
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it's disingenious of you all to be such fags
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I think that the person that wrote the following should reread his/her post:
Why don't you send them to a Cedu like school, it didn't seem to phase you while you were there and they can make some really long lasting friends. Sure they are going to get yelled at but that's okay metal abuse will make them stronger and they can focus on more postive things later in life.
I heard some really great horror stories about such places like Tranquility Bay and Casa by the Sea, but its all myth right bad things don't happen in WWASP Schools or if they do they're not that bad? Doesn't make a difference to an individual stuck in a situation like that because there are more horrors in the world than a place like Cedu, so what we all went through should be dismissed because it wasn't that bad? Perhaps for you and you came to terms with it, maybe your kids will too.
None of it makes any sense. Why would I send my kids to a CEDU school??? And when did I ever say that being at RMA never phase me? Also, why is it wrong that I made some great friends? And when did I say that it was OK to suffer mental abuse? Or that such abuse would then allow you to focus on more positive things as an adult?
Nor have I said that any of the abuse allegations are myth. I, too, have heard some horror stories about Tranquility Bay and Casa by the Sea. When did I mention that the things that have gone on at the WWASP Schools were not that bad?
If these programs are as bad as most folks say they are... and I have not questioned any of the personal stories or anyones integrity.... then why isn't the anger and negative energy focused on changing these injustices? Eliminating the abuse? I would think that those that have been through it would have the strongest arguments... would be viewed as more credible as those that have not been through it. I would think that the passion behind the "mission" could be a powerful one based on some of the posts that I have read here.
I am also trying to understand why folks "hang on" to the negatives of CEDU. I have never said what was done was not wrong or bad, but when do you move on??? When is it time to focus that energy elsewhere? Or maybe it is only on FORNITS that this stuff is ever discussed in your life... maybe this is only a venting place... where some things are exaggerated or blown up. Maybe it is jsut a small outlet in others lives. Maybe a combination of it all. I DON"T KNOW. (read that again)
I think that I am pretty open about "reading" what everyone else says. I have NEVER attacked anyone for their stories. I have never questioned anyone regarding their own experiences, why would others choose to "attack" me when I don't write angry posts about how fucked up CEDU was and how it fucked up my life???? The balance of a constructive forum is way off.
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I would have graduated in '90, who are you?
I'm the guy who tells Mario to go to another castle. I wear a mushroom hat and I have no fucking idea where the princess is.
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[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2005-12-28 05:40 ]
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"
I am also trying to understand why folks "hang on" to the negatives of CEDU. I have never said what was done was not wrong or bad, but when do you move on???"
The reason that people "hang on" to the negatives of Cedu is simple: CEDU IS A NEGATIVE PLACE! The majority of posters at this site
feel that way, which is why you don't see more "balanced" viewpoints on this forum.
It's very condescending of you to assume that people who post negatively about cedu haven't moved on. I am living quite well, thank you
very much.
I post
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On 2005-12-27 16:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Son of Serbia, don't know what kind of burr you've got under your saddle. I don't know Jackson Nash and I'm no lawyer so I guess you're not the clairvoyent you fancy yourself to me
You'd think I was your worst enemy from your hot-headed response Worst I've done as far as I can see is not ask you if Ive got a right to my own opinion without first clearing it with you, bud.
So given your attitude (which might or might not get cured by drugs or getting laid more regularly) I don't see any point in addressing my question to you, feel free to rant though, it doesn't cost me a cent!
But the question stands and I welcome responses from other readers who are less easily riled up than you seem to be.
And that question is: do you think that intellectually brighter people from these schools tended to have an easier time in defining positive as well as negative aspects of their school experiences.
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The "burr under my saddle" is that I know you're full of shit. And I never claimed to be clairvoyent, but whoever you are, you didn't just stumble onto this site. You've been here before seeking "balanced viewpoints" and asking the same questions. The whole "black & white" thinking analogy was a dead give-away.
As for your open question, here's my response:
"Intellectually Brighter People" (why not say Smart or Intelligent people, isn't that what you meant?)do not have an easier time identifying positive aspects of Cedu's program. To the contary, intelligent people are more likely to question Cedu's flawed logic, and poke holes in their reasoning. Intelligent people are the first to notice and protest Cedu's almost non-existent academic program. Intelligent people tend to be independent, and are generally more difficult to assimilate. Those who do break down and accept the program, often realize sooner how worthless it was after being removed from Cedu.
That's just my opinion. You can go ahead and ignore me if you want, but I'm not going anywhere.
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It's interesting that individuals protesting CEDU's abusive or non-existent therapeutic and academic practices get painted with the "black and white" paintbrush. Ironic since CEDU promoted a dialectical perspective on life: the CEDU way or the wrong way. Black and white thinking was perfected at CEDU.
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On 2005-12-28 08:09:00, shanlea wrote:
"It's interesting that individuals protesting CEDU's abusive or non-existent therapeutic and academic practices get painted with the "black and white" paintbrush. Ironic since CEDU promoted a dialectical perspective on life: the CEDU way or the wrong way. Black and white thinking was perfected at CEDU. "
In my defense, I wasn't painting everyone who had an entirely negative experience with CEDU as looking at things "black and white". Rather, I was talking about the mentality that those who disagree on one single aspect about CEDU with another person is labeled a cult freak. Just because there is disagreement doesn't mean that the two parties didn't both hate the place and find it to be abusive, and it doesn't mean that one person is a program-hater and the other is a program-supporter. That was the "black and white" thinking I was referring to.
Just because I found the place to be cult-like instead of a full blown cult doesn't mean that I didn't find the whole experience to be weird, disturbing and hellish, and the CEDU schools to be completely detrimental to teens.
Ultimately, it's a losing battle. You are either going to get labeled a cult-freak or a loser who needs to "get over it" by at least a couple of people, wheras most individuals on here are more complex than that.
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Castle, I dunno why you bother arguing with people around here. It must get frustrating trying to explain your point of view to people who are too shallow to understand that there are at least two points of view to everything.
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Ok, it stems from a cult, therefore it IS a cult? That seems to be your logic. Just because a cult inspired CEDU doesn't mean that CEDU is a cult. I'd say the vast majority of cult members are willingly participating in their rituals. On the flipside, the vast majority of cedu students wanted absolutely nothing to do with the program. Those running a cult tend to be sold on its beliefs. But many of the staff at cedu were far from sold. So you can go ahead and keep calling it a cult, and I'll be here thinking that perhaps you are the one on crack. "
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It was run by Synanon members who willingly participated in synanon. cedu students were forced to be there. they were threatened , coerced, manipulated and decieved and mindfucked and brainwashed into thinking what the groupthink wanted them to think. those running the cult were sold on its beliefs . many of the staff follow those running the cult . a cult is a group that thinks whatever the cult leaders want them to think. what happend at the cedu place when the staff or students could not be coerced into what the leaders forced them to do ? shunning name calling threats ? these schools like to blame their students and staff and not the leaders and that is a cult sign. the leaders seem to care only about the students and staff that can be coerced and manipulated into following the leaders.
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It is not a cult, look up the word. Bad place? Maybe so, but CULT? I think not ..
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On 2005-12-28 16:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Ok, it stems from a cult, therefore it IS a cult? That seems to be your logic. Just because a cult inspired CEDU doesn't mean that CEDU is a cult. I'd say the vast majority of cult members are willingly participating in their rituals. On the flipside, the vast majority of cedu students wanted absolutely nothing to do with the program. Those running a cult tend to be sold on its beliefs. But many of the staff at cedu were far from sold. So you can go ahead and keep calling it a cult, and I'll be here thinking that perhaps you are the one on crack. "
It was run by Synanon members who willingly participated in synanon. cedu students were forced to be there. they were threatened , coerced, manipulated and decieved and mindfucked and brainwashed into thinking what the groupthink wanted them to think. those running the cult were sold on its beliefs . many of the staff follow those running the cult . a cult is a group that thinks whatever the cult leaders want them to think. what happend at the cedu place when the staff or students could not be coerced into what the leaders forced them to do ? shunning name calling threats ? these schools like to blame their students and staff and not the leaders and that is a cult sign. the leaders seem to care only about the students and staff that can be coerced and manipulated into following the leaders. "
[/quote]
You're an IDIOT. Plain and simple. Fuck your mother.
Now that I got that out of the way, I think you are a weak piece of shit. It was a cult because the students thought exactly what the staff wanted them to think? When the fuck did that happen? I never once mistook their bullshit for truth. Obviously you did. But let me tell you, dipshit, that just because your weak ass got brainwashed doesn't mean the rest of us did. You quivering little pussy, you are the one who got treated like a cult member. As for the rest of us, it was just a shitty boarding school. That's all cedu was. A high school where you had to work on a fuckin' farm. If you let it be anything more, I feel bad for you.
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A cult?!?!?!? You guys are just plain stupid - clearly you have never seen a real cult before.
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On 2005-12-28 17:36:00, puma046 wrote:
"A cult?!?!?!? You guys are just plain stupid - clearly you have never seen a real cult before. "
Thank you..These people are little cry baby faggots that like to shed there tears on a message board! :rofl: :lol: A cult! Come the FUCK ON you idiots!! :lol:
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Anything look vaguely familiar?
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html (http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html)
Mind Control - The BITE Model
From chapter two of Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves
© 2000 by Steven Hassan - published by Freedom of Mind Press, Somerville MA
Destructive mind control can be understood in terms of four basic components, which form the acronym BITE:
I. Behavior Control
II. Information Control
III. Thought Control
IV. Emotional Control
I. Behavior Control
1. Regulation of individual?s physical reality
a. Where, how and with whom the member lives and associates with
b. What clothes, colors, hairstyles the person wears
c. What food the person eats, drinks, adopts, and rejects
d. How much sleep the person is able to have
e. Financial dependence
f. Little or no time spent on leisure, entertainment, vacations
2. Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals
3. Need to ask permission for major decisions
4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors
5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques- positive and negative).
5. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails
6. Rigid rules and regulations
7. Need for obedience and dependency
II. Information Control
1. Use of deception
a. Deliberately holding back information
b. Distorting information to make it acceptable
c. Outright lying
2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged
a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio
b. Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members so busy they don?t have time to think
3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines
a. Information is not freely accessible
b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what
4. Spying on other members is encouraged
a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership
5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda
a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources
6. Unethical use of confession
a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution
III. Thought Control
1. Need to internalize the group?s doctrine as "Truth"
a. Map = Reality
b. Black and White thinking
c. Good vs. evil
d. Us vs. them (inside vs. outside)
2. Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words".
3. Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged.
4. Thought-stopping techniques (to shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts); rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism.
a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in "tongues"
f. Singing or humming
5. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate
6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful
IV. Emotional Control
1. Manipulate and narrow the range of a person?s feelings.
2. Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader?s or the group?s.
3. Excessive use of guilt
a. Identity guilt
1. Who you are (not living up to your potential)
2. Your family
3. Your past
4. Your affiliations
5. Your thoughts, feelings, actions
b. Social guilt
c. Historical guilt
4. Excessive use of fear
a. Fear of thinking independently
b. Fear of the "outside" world
c. Fear of enemies
d. Fear of losing one?s "salvation"
e. Fear of leaving the group or being shunned by group
f. Fear of disapproval
5. Extremes of emotional highs and lows.
6. Ritual and often public confession of "sins".
7. Phobia indoctrination : programming of irrational fears of ever leaving the group or even questioning the leader?s authority. The person under mind control cannot visualize a positive, fulfilled future without being in the group.
a. No happiness or fulfillment "outside"of the group
b. Terrible consequences will take place if you leave: "hell"; "demon possession"; "incurable diseases"; "accidents"; "suicide"; "insanity"; "10,000 reincarnations"; etc.
c. Shunning of leave takers. Fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family.
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave. From the group?s perspective, people who leave are: "weak"; "undisciplined"; "unspiritual"; "worldly"; "brainwashed by family, counselors"; seduced by money, sex, rock and roll.
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Nope, doesnt seem familiar to me, ya fuckin jerk-off..Now go get a job!! :lol:
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<< "Anything look vaguely familiar?
http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html (http://www.ex-cult.org/bite.html)
Mind Control - The BITE Model
From chapter two of Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves
© 2000 by Steven Hassan - published by Freedom of Mind Press, Somerville MA" >>
YES! That is very much what Cedu was like and exactly the practices that they used to manipulate us into doing what they wanted. And if those things that are listed (and previosly listed a few posts back) are classified as a cult then I experienced living in a cult! No black and white thinking here just finally admiting to the truth of what I believe was happening when I was there. It does explain alot about what really went on there and the way things are now. Cedu was a bad place, didn't really serve a true purpose in society and now I know that it was just a cult experience, so now I know how to heal and try move on.
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It was NOT and IS NOT a fucking cult! Morons~~~
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Easy there Cujo, easy boy. :lol: You don't think its a cult, others do.
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Lick my applesack :wave:
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Son of Serbia says "That's just my opinion. You can go ahead and ignore me if you want, but I'm not going anywhere."
Fair enough Son of Serbia. You're not going anywhere and I guess you're happy with that situation.
Some of us do want to learn from life and grow from what we learn.
See ya round, likely around here where you're still whinging about how mean CEDU was to you
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I found CEDU to be pretty cult-ish, and I wasn't even really exposed to the "Emotional Growth" side of things. I'm assuming that's more or less what this thread has turned into, and I'm sorry I don't have the time to read all 12 pages of it!
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On 2005-12-28 19:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"See ya round, likely around here where you're still whinging about how mean CEDU was to you"
:wstupid: What the hell does "whinging" mean, anyway?
Aside from the obvious spelling error, your sentence contains multiple grammatical and/or punctual errors. It's not the sort of thing that an "Intellectually Brighter Person" would write.
You see pal, while you spent your formative
years "learning and growing", I was getting a REAL EDUCATION. Allow me to demonstrate to you how an intelligent person might have phrased that:
>I'll see you around, most likely here, where you'll continue whining about how Cedu abused you.<
And another thing: You may have a "balanced viewpoint", but that doesn't make you smarter than the rest of us.
There is one thing I'd like to know, from those who defend the alledged positive aspects of the program: What good is "learning and growing" at Cedu, when in the end you really don't know anything? :???:
[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2005-12-29 06:39 ]
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On 2005-12-28 15:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
Castle, I dunno why you bother arguing with people around here. It must get frustrating trying to explain your point of view to people who are too shallow to understand that there are at least two points of view to everything.
Well, I view it more of a discussion, because most of the people I'm respondng to aren't the individuals who are flaming people.
SoS, "whigning" is a joke spelling of "whining". I think that trend started on the internet.
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Well, I'm not joking when I say that the original poster is unintellegent.
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Son Of Siberia ---kill yourself
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While you're at it, kill yourself twice Serbia. You're that annoying so let's not leave any room for error
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On 2005-12-29 17:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"While you're at it, kill yourself twice Serbia. You're that annoying so let's not leave any room for error"
:tup: :lol:
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Say what you want about Serb, but if you've ever read any posts where he concisely explains his antipathy toward CEDU, you would realize his heart is in the right place.
It's not about whining about what happened to HIM. It's about the immorality of subjugating minors of an impressionable age to abusive, mind fucking experimental techniques, combined with a mentally repressive atmosphere, fraudulent academics and "therapeutic" tools, the use of coersion to distort reality, and isolating them from any resource that might contradict CEDU's practices. (Oh, geez, and I forgot about widespread lying to parents and students alike.)
THIS WAS SYSTEMIC.
It would be easy for someone like Serb, who has his own family and successful business, to think "who the fuck cares about who else gets fucked? I'm all set." But he chooses NOT to do that.
The truth is that parents have contacted some of us from this site and have opted not to submit to any CEDU style program, and that is the impetus for continuing to write.
Moreover, not one pro CEDU person has EVER listed specific tools that helped them in the "real world." It's not about whining: it's about dropping too many fucking pesos to be worked over by a bunch of fucked up, unaccredited staff members working out their own bullshit experimenting on us. And OUR children.
No one's saying if you had some nice memories at CEDU you're a cultist. But even the woman who gets the shit beaten out of her by her husband wouldn't say it's okay because he sent her flowers later.
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HA HA HA!!! Oh, my GOD!!! I despise CEDU - you can't imagine how much! Geez - have I ever said ANYTHING here that indicated I'm pro-CEDU?!?!?! Geez, Louise. This is funny!
I am a real person. I never was a CEDU employee. I was a therapist for a very brief period and VERY QUICKLY started looking for a job so I could leave that hell hole.
I was FIRED b.c. they thought I was telling parents to pull their kids! I reported CEDU to a personal friend who worked at CPS. I also reported to County of San Bernardino Behavioral Health (they couldn't do anything, but they told me they hated CEDU), and I reported to the sheriff's dept. They could not do anything, either! NO ONE could do ANYTHING if no law was being broken. HOWEVER, there was a deputy who had an ongoing CEDU file.
The hospital "up the hill" - Mountain Hospital - hated CEDU. Loma Linda hated CEDU. Good GOD - what have I ever said here to make you think that?!?! WRITING STYLES??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME???
That's what Ottawa used to do. She analyzed writing styles and tried to figure out who was whom. Oh, boy - I have to tell you - you gave me a BIG laugh.
I've revealed myself to a couple of people here whom I trust. Oh, this is too funny - sad, but funny.
I even had to ask Ginger to delete some of my posts because I had revealed a lot of what I had seen in my time there - and what I saw was VERY limited because I was not an employee and I wasn't there long. I never, ever went to a Profeet because I knew that would be inappropriate. I posted some things and then Ottawa started talking about printing posts and calling lawyers and I confess - I got nervous. BUT I called the deputy and let him know what was up. He said that she could not hurt me if I was telling the truth. But he's not an attorney - I trust him, but I still was nervous. I have a family I am responsible for.
One of the CEDU victims had a lawsuit going. He posted here giving the attorney's name and inviting people to call. I called the attorney TWICE and left messages - he never called back. I think I just didn't have enough to be of interest to him.
I'm just astonished at this. Don't I get to have some anonymity? Hey, we're all on the same side here. Years later, I still am haunted by what I saw there. I never, ever expected anything like that. I didn't even know what an "emotional growth school" was. When I first got there, it looked just wonderful... as it does to parents, I'm sure. They were scared and felt completey helpless... here were these wonderful and caring people and fresh-faced kids... I completely understand the appeal! I thought it was GREAT
...for a while. And then I saw a staff member being an asshole to a kid. So I spoke with administration about him. They said he was one of their best. I thought it was me - maybe he was having a bad day.
Then I saw another "counselor" being a jerk. I was confused. Then I saw a kid in the dining area "journaling." Only this wasn't any kind of journaling I had ever seen. She was writing about what a bad kid she was. So I asked about this - "well you have to tear them down and then rebuild them." Words from a "counselor" who was ONLY a high school graduate - and then I learned that later she earned her bachelor's at a fake school - a diploma mill. It's called California Coast College. And if you look at the CVs of a lot of CEDU administrators, you'll see that school. Interesting. Gee, I went to a REAL college for 13 years to learn REAL stuff and paid lots and lots of REAL money... little did I know I could have actually earned A LOT more money in my job by getting a mail-order "degree." The administrators and school directors made way more money than I did. Missed out on that one.
Then I was told that I should go to a Profeet. I asked what it was - "It's where you 'get all your dirt out' with the kids." WHAT?!?!?!?! This is VERY inappropriate! Those kids were NOT my therapist! And frankly, I wondered if I did spill my "dirt" I would be accused of dishonesty - I don't HAVE that much dirt. Kids started telling me that if they didn't come up with big stuff, they were accused of lying and holding off. I have forgotten the term they used.
Then I had a kid who was floridly psychotic. I felt he was a danger to himself and to others. He was PSYCHOTIC. The bogus psychiatrist said it might be because of his heart condition. RIGHT. So that's what I reported. I knew that would be of interest. But it's not against the law for a licensed facility to have psychotic kids - it was INAPPROPRIATE for CEDU to have him, but no laws were broken.
Then I had a kid a mild form of autism. But a school director said that he was bulemic. This was a school director with the high school diploma and who had worked as a secretary in a real estate office prior to CEDU. She said, "I can tell he's bulemic because I see it in his eyes and that's the same blank look I saw in the mirror when I was bulemic." I told her that that "blank look" was because he was AUTISTIC!!! They can look weird!!! Again, I'm kicking myself... I could have saved SO MUCH time and money not going to a REAL school. I did not know that real estate secretarial jobs were so good at preparing a person to be an expert diagnostician.
SO - this school director put that kid on bathroom escort after meals. Again, I made phone calls. This was the OPPOSITE of what you should do with someone who has autism. It was torment for that kid. But again - no laws broken. By then, I was ACTIVELY looking for another job.
Yeah, at first it looked sooooo good. Then reality hit. And it hit hard. And here I am, years later, still haunted... wondering how the kids I saw are doing... and that brought me here. And I can't help but think - if I have these feelings so many years later, what must it be like for the kids?
Listen, making reports or making information calls to CPS or any other governing body doesn't guarantee anything at all. I've also reported a person named Barbara Lamb to state licensing. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist (a master's level license) who conducts "therapy" for friggin' SPACE ALIEN ABDUCTINS!!! She's a nut job! I saw her on Penn and Teller's show on Showtime. What a crock! I looked at the website of this idiot and pasted it into an email to her state licensing body. They wrote back and said that if I had not personally been hurt by her, they couldn't do anything! Check it out - you won't believe this. Crop circles and past lives and all manner of rubbish - she is HURTING people. And the state can do NOTHING: http://www.blambms.com (http://www.blambms.com)
The only reason for anyone here to be unhappy with me is if that person is a CEDUite. I'm just amazed that anyone would wonder...
On 2005-12-24 13:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I can't make up my mind.
I've heard it said that he (or she) is not a real person, just a playful or sarcastic identity taken on by someone else who posts here.
And it's true, a lot of the stock phrases and ways of speaking in FormerCT's posts do sound like a caricature of a therapist or couselor ("I'm feeling...", "It is what it is.", and so on).
But also heard it said by someone who worked at CEDU that this is indeed a real ex-employee, the style of writing is pretty identifiable, who did in fact leave under a cloud of disagreement with the CEDU philosophy. "Not the sharpest tool in the shed, a bit naive, but well meaning" was the description given
So which is true do you think" is Former CEDU therapist a real person in disguise? Or a joke masquerading as a real person?"
[ This Message was edited by: former CEDU therapist on 2005-12-30 16:28 ][ This Message was edited by: former CEDU therapist on 2005-12-30 16:31 ]
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So are you or aren't you a joke? Is this last post supposed to be a hint (the ranting, the multiple "inappropriates" like somebody mocking "therapist-speak) or are you just like this?
Cuz I've got to say: in some posts you sound like you're sort of overly calm and here you sound manic.
Also about your statement:
"I've also reported a person named Barbara Lamb to state licensing. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist (a master's level license) who conducts "therapy" for friggin' SPACE ALIEN ABDUCTINS!!! She's a nut job! I saw her on Penn and Teller's show on Showtime. What a crock! I looked at the website of this idiot and pasted it into an email to her state licensing body. They wrote back and said that if I had not personally been hurt by her, they couldn't do anything!"
Sounds like you're saying you make a lot of complaints that nobody else is taking very seriously.
Wonder if that's why you're so nervous about your identity, maybe there's people who think your stability or credibility or judgment out to be looked into, especially if they saw your posts here
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Okay, I give up. I don't care anymore if you think I'm real. This is absurd.
Yes, I gave an energetic post because I thought it was HILARIOUS that anyone would think I'm not real. I literally laughed out loud - it was hysterically funny to me. My spouse came into my office and asked what was so funny. That's how hard I laughed.
CEDU and Lamb are the only complaints I've made. I was responding to the person who said - more than once - that I should have complained. That person was implying that I would sit by and do nothing. I was illustrating my point. I will complain if I see harm or injustice.
You say I sounded manic. When I post, I usually am more academic. But when I think something is funny, I laugh. Out loud. Sometimes a lot. And I can even misspell words like, "abductions."
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Is anyone else having trouble with punctuation showing up as Greek characters? I can go back and edit and correct them, but who needs to do that? Anybody having this trouble? Maybe it's my computer.[ This Message was edited by: former CEDU therapist on 2005-12-30 19:35 ]
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Listen Bonehead Anon,
It says a lot that you would criticize a therapist for reporting an agency that abuses its influence on children.
And, for those of you stupid as fuck brainwashed Ceduphiles who think if CEDU truly was fucked up, it would have been shut down long ago: get real. Do "troubled" youths have any credibility when reporting problems? Do parents feel a false sense of security sending their kids to a place that looks like the hills are alive with the sound of music? Do you know how many fucked up, inefficient, incompetent institutions exist?
By the way, FCT, I detected a bit of Ottawa too, though she is far too snooty to use the word "cuz". But it might be just another schmuck who loves CEDU but can't think of a single valid reason why.
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Thanks! This is so bizarre I can hardly believe it.
I smacks of Ottawa to me - and I'm wondering if that silly "cuz" was intentional... to mislead us. Because the tone of this person is very much like her.
I appreciate your post here. It is the weirdest thing... I can't think of one reason that a person here would have a problem with me, unless it's a CEDU addict. Truly, it was weird - but it gave me one of the best laughs I had all year!
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I agree - that person is a jerk. In fact, sounds like Ottawa to me, as well. Interesting.
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greg im guessing your so fucking full of shit it isnt funny stop blaming your guilty feeling on other people greg the shitty english teacher or not your responsible for you own actions such as fucking kids up with your cedu shit asshole.....beeeeeeee accontable oh i forgot i never was taught how to spell thanks a buch who ever you are you cedu fuck...hope ya get bitch slapped///coward
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I am very interested to know who the supposed Cedu therapist is, considering I myself attended Ascent for eight weeks and then Northwest academy for 6 months before being sent back to Ascent. Maybe I would be able to share some insight as to what this therapist's true sentiments were regarding the issue, if he/she was there at the same time as me. As he/she said, many of these employees were poorly educated, and the majority of the time I found myself the intellectual superior of these people that had complete authority over me. Luckily for me, I was able to manuever myself out of the program well before my intended gruduation date, but i'm sure the majority of my peer group was not so lucky. All I can say is that I am overjoyed that Cedu has been shut down due to bankruptcy , it was an evil enterprise that capitalized on vulnerable parents and children.
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I've been through this before - who am I... I guarantee you do not know me. I was there a very short period of time and I never saw Ascent. There was a period when they went through a number of therapists. It was a time of employment turmoil for the therapists - we were not employees of CEDU. I worked for a private practice that used office space there.
I did not see much - but what I saw gave me the creeps. I was very uncomfortable. It felt like watching a cult.
I don't think my identity is really important. I've communicated with other people here who were therapists. They also do not want to reveal their identity.
I am certain you do not know me. Frankly, I wonder if the people who did know me would even remember me. It was a long time ago and for a short period of time. I have found a couple of people who knew me. The reason I came to these boards is that I still can't shake the bad feeling I have remembering CEDU. And I just can't help but wonder how is was for the kids. Terrible, I assume. I was not a part of CEDU, I was not an employee, and I did not participate in any of the "groups" or functions there. I was impressed with the level of ignorance among staff - and their certainty that they knew everything. It was highly frustrating.
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So if you're a real person and not a front for one of the other fornits rats how come you keep using the same stock phrases "we were not employess"," I did not see much", many others as any one can find by looking at your posts. Like you're salvaging phrases from previous posts.
Suspicious. I always thought that shrinks were more verbal, better writers. "Frankly" (another one of your favs) your posts always sound like somebody trying to do a satire of psychologists.
Bryan is that you, come on 'fess up boy, enough with the joke.
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On 2006-01-04 15:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"So if you're a real person and not a front for one of the other fornits rats how come you keep using the same stock phrases "we were not employess"," I did not see much", many others as any one can find by looking at your posts. Like you're salvaging phrases from previous posts.
Suspicious. I always thought that shrinks were more verbal, better writers. "Frankly" (another one of your favs) your posts always sound like somebody trying to do a satire of psychologists.
Bryan is that you, come on 'fess up boy, enough with the joke. "
Well, well, well, the anonymous coward with no dick, who worships the cedu cult, and lusts after Anne Hall, has returned to his crusade! Where've you been pussy? You haven't posted here since Shanlea totally kicked your ass on this forum a few months back.
I see that you're back to telling lies and conspiracy theories about people. Before
you get too wrapped up in your latest ether induced, schizophrenic fantasy, I feel obliged to inform you that FCT is NOT Bryan, but he IS most likely the real deal.
Sorry to spoil your fun, again!
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2006-01-05 10:19 ]
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Thank you, Serb. I'm sick of this guy. I thought you might gallop in.
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"gallop in"??? Intriguing.
Y'know the Serbster has long been rumored on this site to have a very, very special relationship with Bryan.
And now here comes the Serb.
You might even say "galloping" in, (or perhaps "prancing") to help the Former(only-there-for-a-very-short-time-never-an-employee-oh-so-scared-of-CEDU-but-still- obsessed) CEDU Therapist???
Hey Bryan, cut the crap: are you really the CeduTherapist dude (or female?
:cry2:
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What is going on here? I know FTC. He is telling you the truth - what issue do you have with him?
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So FCT is actually a "he", not a "she", is that what you're saying?
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On 2005-12-30 16:24:00, former CEDU therapist wrote:
"HA HA HA!!! Oh, my GOD!!! I despise CEDU - you can't imagine how much! Geez - have I ever said ANYTHING here that indicated I'm pro-CEDU?!?!?! Geez, Louise. This is funny!
I am a real person. I never was a CEDU employee. I was a therapist for a very brief period and VERY QUICKLY started looking for a job so I could leave that hell hole.
I was FIRED b.c. they thought I was telling parents to pull their kids! I reported CEDU to a personal friend who worked at CPS. I also reported to County of San Bernardino Behavioral Health (they couldn't do anything, but they told me they hated CEDU), and I reported to the sheriff's dept. They could not do anything, either! NO ONE could do ANYTHING if no law was being broken. HOWEVER, there was a deputy who had an ongoing CEDU file.
The hospital "up the hill" - Mountain Hospital - hated CEDU. Loma Linda hated CEDU. Good GOD - what have I ever said here to make you think that?!?! WRITING STYLES??? ARE YOU KIDDING ME???
That's what Ottawa used to do. She analyzed writing styles and tried to figure out who was whom. Oh, boy - I have to tell you - you gave me a BIG laugh.
I've revealed myself to a couple of people here whom I trust. Oh, this is too funny - sad, but funny.
I even had to ask Ginger to delete some of my posts because I had revealed a lot of what I had seen in my time there - and what I saw was VERY limited because I was not an employee and I wasn't there long. I never, ever went to a Profeet because I knew that would be inappropriate. I posted some things and then Ottawa started talking about printing posts and calling lawyers and I confess - I got nervous. BUT I called the deputy and let him know what was up. He said that she could not hurt me if I was telling the truth. But he's not an attorney - I trust him, but I still was nervous. I have a family I am responsible for.
One of the CEDU victims had a lawsuit going. He posted here giving the attorney's name and inviting people to call. I called the attorney TWICE and left messages - he never called back. I think I just didn't have enough to be of interest to him.
I'm just astonished at this. Don't I get to have some anonymity? Hey, we're all on the same side here. Years later, I still am haunted by what I saw there. I never, ever expected anything like that. I didn't even know what an "emotional growth school" was. When I first got there, it looked just wonderful... as it does to parents, I'm sure. They were scared and felt completey helpless... here were these wonderful and caring people and fresh-faced kids... I completely understand the appeal! I thought it was GREAT
...for a while. And then I saw a staff member being an asshole to a kid. So I spoke with administration about him. They said he was one of their best. I thought it was me - maybe he was having a bad day.
Then I saw another "counselor" being a jerk. I was confused. Then I saw a kid in the dining area "journaling." Only this wasn't any kind of journaling I had ever seen. She was writing about what a bad kid she was. So I asked about this - "well you have to tear them down and then rebuild them." Words from a "counselor" who was ONLY a high school graduate - and then I learned that later she earned her bachelor's at a fake school - a diploma mill. It's called California Coast College. And if you look at the CVs of a lot of CEDU administrators, you'll see that school. Interesting. Gee, I went to a REAL college for 13 years to learn REAL stuff and paid lots and lots of REAL money... little did I know I could have actually earned A LOT more money in my job by getting a mail-order "degree." The administrators and school directors made way more money than I did. Missed out on that one.
Then I was told that I should go to a Profeet. I asked what it was - "It's where you 'get all your dirt out' with the kids." WHAT?!?!?!?! This is VERY inappropriate! Those kids were NOT my therapist! And frankly, I wondered if I did spill my "dirt" I would be accused of dishonesty - I don't HAVE that much dirt. Kids started telling me that if they didn't come up with big stuff, they were accused of lying and holding off. I have forgotten the term they used.
Then I had a kid who was floridly psychotic. I felt he was a danger to himself and to others. He was PSYCHOTIC. The bogus psychiatrist said it might be because of his heart condition. RIGHT. So that's what I reported. I knew that would be of interest. But it's not against the law for a licensed facility to have psychotic kids - it was INAPPROPRIATE for CEDU to have him, but no laws were broken.
Then I had a kid a mild form of autism. But a school director said that he was bulemic. This was a school director with the high school diploma and who had worked as a secretary in a real estate office prior to CEDU. She said, "I can tell he's bulemic because I see it in his eyes and that's the same blank look I saw in the mirror when I was bulemic." I told her that that "blank look" was because he was AUTISTIC!!! They can look weird!!! Again, I'm kicking myself... I could have saved SO MUCH time and money not going to a REAL school. I did not know that real estate secretarial jobs were so good at preparing a person to be an expert diagnostician.
SO - this school director put that kid on bathroom escort after meals. Again, I made phone calls. This was the OPPOSITE of what you should do with someone who has autism. It was torment for that kid. But again - no laws broken. By then, I was ACTIVELY looking for another job.
Yeah, at first it looked sooooo good. Then reality hit. And it hit hard. And here I am, years later, still haunted... wondering how the kids I saw are doing... and that brought me here. And I can't help but think - if I have these feelings so many years later, what must it be like for the kids?
Listen, making reports or making information calls to CPS or any other governing body doesn't guarantee anything at all. I've also reported a person named Barbara Lamb to state licensing. She's a licensed marriage and family therapist (a master's level license) who conducts "therapy" for friggin' SPACE ALIEN ABDUCTINS!!! She's a nut job! I saw her on Penn and Teller's show on Showtime. What a crock! I looked at the website of this idiot and pasted it into an email to her state licensing body. They wrote back and said that if I had not personally been hurt by her, they couldn't do anything! Check it out - you won't believe this. Crop circles and past lives and all manner of rubbish - she is HURTING people. And the state can do NOTHING: http://www.blambms.com (http://www.blambms.com)
The only reason for anyone here to be unhappy with me is if that person is a CEDUite. I'm just amazed that anyone would wonder...
On 2005-12-24 13:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I can't make up my mind.
I've heard it said that he (or she) is not a real person, just a playful or sarcastic identity taken on by someone else who posts here.
And it's true, a lot of the stock phrases and ways of speaking in FormerCT's posts do sound like a caricature of a therapist or couselor ("I'm feeling...", "It is what it is.", and so on).
But also heard it said by someone who worked at CEDU that this is indeed a real ex-employee, the style of writing is pretty identifiable, who did in fact leave under a cloud of disagreement with the CEDU philosophy. "Not the sharpest tool in the shed, a bit naive, but well meaning" was the description given
So which is true do you think" is Former CEDU therapist a real person in disguise? Or a joke masquerading as a real person?"
[ This Message was edited by: former CEDU therapist on 2005-12-30 16:28 ][ This Message was edited by: former CEDU therapist on 2005-12-30 16:31 ]"
Mr Therapist if you reported I would like to know why nothing could be done. I have looked up civial coedes in the state of california and I came across a code that state if anyone who practices therapy without a license and causes damage can be liable. If I am not mistaken faculity not trained ran raps and I would call this group therapy
-
Well, you can't "please" everyone. There's always going to be at least one person bitching, whining and giving you shit no matter what you do. Especially on fornits.
I personally think that some people just enjoy being difficult.
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 18:53 ]
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They did not say they did "therapy." That's how they did it. Anyone can "counsel" or be a "counselor." They were required by the school districts funding NPS kids to have therapists on campus. This was my understanding. I had asked why they had us there b.c. they certainly didn't listen to us. Not really.
What do you have against me? I really don't understand this.
They broke no laws that I could report. This was a disappointment, but that's how it is. You have no reason to be angry with me... unless you're just looking for someone to do this to and I'm your only target.
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I would vote on the latter speculation. It doesn't matter how explicitly you explain yourself to some people. They're really not interested in hearing it. They just want to piss and moan.
-
On 2006-01-06 17:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
""gallop in"??? Intriguing.
Y'know the Serbster has long been rumored on this site to have a very, very special relationship with Bryan.
And now here comes the Serb.
You might even say "galloping" in, (or perhaps "prancing") to help the Former(only-there-for-a-very-short-time-never-an-employee-oh-so-scared-of-CEDU-but-still- obsessed) CEDU Therapist???
Hey Bryan, cut the crap: are you really the CeduTherapist dude (or female?"
The only rumors I'm aware of regarding the alledged "very special relationship" (he means homosexual)between Bryan and myself, are the ones that you started...And as far as I know, you are the only person stupid enough to believe them. Truth be told, Bryan was indeed my best friend during my stay at Cedu, however, the last time I saw Bryan in person was almost 14 years ago. Since that time, both Bryan and myself have married and started families of our own.
Given these facts, the sort of intimate relationship you are implying would be impossible.
Also, I happen to know that since graduating cedu, Bryan F. has seen more beaver than most dams! I myself had quite a bit of success in that department as well, before I finally got married and settled down of course.
This is yet another one of your infinite lies,that is easily dispersed by the truth and common sense, both of which you are obviously in very short supply of.
Since we are on the subject of deviant sexual behavior, Mr. Dickless Wonder,I feel obligated to mention the fact that you specifically threatened to come to my house and rape my wife at cedualumni.com last year. Because of this, I am seriously concerned for the personal safety of the women and children living in your community. All joking aside, I implore you to please seek professional help for your severe psychological problems, and I'm also begging you to register yourself as a potential sex offender with the proper authorities.
Please do the responsible thing, and act like an adult for once in your sad pathetic life. If you won't do it for yourself, then do it for the sake of the innocent women and children in your community, who deserve to live their lives in peace, without being traumatized & molested by you.
.[ This Message was edited by: Son Of Serbia on 2006-01-09 13:38 ]
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Oh God, you are a fucking loser.
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And you are a fucking coward, with no balls or a spine. Try signing your name next time you insult someone, tough guy.
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Ok then. Oh God, you are fucking gay.
- Jason
Not like you know me or anything, but there's my name. I've just read some of your posts and you come across as a sniveling little girl. Enough said.
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Okay, asshole! The gloves are off now! You've crossed the line! Screw you!
Jason
On 2006-01-09 13:36:00, Son Of Serbia wrote:
"And you are a fucking coward, with no balls or a spine. Try signing your name next time you insult someone, tough guy."
-
my vote is that you're both lame... i once read a quote and i find it to be very true. "Arguing online is like running in the special olympics... in the end you're still retarted."
here ill sign my name too
sean martin
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Jason is KING! Jason is my Prince! Hail, Jason!! Jason, my favorite boy! My Precious... My Jason...
On 2006-01-09 14:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ok then. Oh God, you are fucking gay.
- Jason
Not like you know me or anything, but there's my name. I've just read some of your posts and you come across as a sniveling little girl. Enough said. "
:smile:
-
On 2006-01-09 14:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ok then. Oh God, you are fucking gay.
- Jason
Not like you know me or anything, but there's my name. I've just read some of your posts and you come across as a sniveling little girl. Enough said. "
Whatever, Pussy! You don't know me either, but there are a few people around here who do, ask any of them and I'm sure they'd advise you to SHUT YOUR FUCKING LOSER MOUTH while you still can. Besides, I'm not here to impress you or anyone else, and I don't give a shit what you think about me. By your own admission: you don't know me, yet you continue attacking me anonymously over the internet. You're still a fucking coward, and you're really not worth anyone's time or attention. Enough said.
-
If I'm not worth any time or attention, how come you've responded to everything I've said?
- Jason
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Serb,you should ignore this fool. He's sounds like just another brainwashed programmie trolling this site to get a rise out of people.
His sole purpose here is to disrupt any meaning discussion.
By the the way, why is that so many CEDU programmies resort to calling people faggots, and generally seem to enjoy taking that sort of demeaning route when criticizing someone? Can't these people think of anything intellligent to say? It just seems so childish to me, like something I would've done maybe ten years ago. This lends support to the argument that CEDU causes arrested development.
-
Serb,you should ignore this fool. He's sounds like just another brainwashed programmie trolling this site to get a rise out of people.
His sole purpose here is to disrupt any meaningful discussion.
By the the way, why is that so many CEDU programmies resort to calling people faggots, and generally seem to enjoy taking that sort of demeaning route when criticizing someone? Can't these people think of anything intellligent to say? It just seems so childish to me, like something I would've done maybe ten years ago. This lends support to the argument that CEDU causes arrested development.
-
On 2006-01-11 06:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Serb,you should ignore this fool. He's sounds like just another brainwashed programmie trolling this site to get a rise out of people.
His sole purpose here is to disrupt any meaningful discussion.
By the the way, why is that so many CEDU programmies resort to calling people faggots, and generally seem to enjoy taking that sort of demeaning route when criticizing someone? Can't these people think of anything intellligent to say? It just seems so childish to me, like something I would've done maybe ten years ago. This lends support to the argument that CEDU causes arrested development."
Meaningful discussion (I'm assuming that's what your illiterate ass meant to write)? There is no meaningful discussion around here. Just a bunch of people who left CEDU ages ago, and should've gotten the fuck over it ages ago, ranting about stupid bullshit. Like calling the place a cult. No one here debates, they just bash each other when they can't agree, and gang up on each other when they finally do find someone who agrees with them. Just a bunch of hypocrites. Fuck y'all.
-
On 2006-01-11 19:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-11 06:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Serb,you should ignore this fool. He's sounds like just another brainwashed programmie trolling this site to get a rise out of people.
His sole purpose here is to disrupt any meaningful discussion.
By the the way, why is that so many CEDU programmies resort to calling people faggots, and generally seem to enjoy taking that sort of demeaning route when criticizing someone? Can't these people think of anything intellligent to say? It just seems so childish to me, like something I would've done maybe ten years ago. This lends support to the argument that CEDU causes arrested development."
Meaningful discussion (I'm assuming that's what your illiterate ass meant to write)? There is no meaningful discussion around here. Just a bunch of people who left CEDU ages ago, and should've gotten the fuck over it ages ago, ranting about stupid bullshit. Like calling the place a cult. No one here debates, they just bash each other when they can't agree, and gang up on each other when they finally do find someone who agrees with them. Just a bunch of hypocrites. Fuck y'all. "
So does this mean that you're leaving us?
Because if you are, then don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!
By the way, I?ve am over Cedu, and have been that way for a very long time now. This isn't about that at all. It's about Cedu?s systematic practices of abusing minors through the use of mind fucking experimental techniques, repressing them mentally by neglecting their education, and using of intimidation, coercion, isolation, and outright lies to distort their reality, and eliminate any outside influence contradictory to Cedu?s bizarre beliefs. No one here is ranting or whining, but we?re fed up that decent hard working families are losing their life savings, and sometimes even their homes, for their children to be traumatized by a bunch of unqualified con-artists.
Maybe you don?t care about other people, or about who else gets fucked. Well I?m not like you. I do care that kids are being hurt at these places, I care that parents are being lied to, and I care that criminals are getting rich by capitalizing on the misery of innocent
families. Cedu does not help families, they exploit them! Maybe you don?t care, and choose to ignore the abuse you saw, but I?m not like you. I do care, and I post here to get the truth out about those frauds!
The truth is: parents do visit this site, and they are indeed interested in what we have to say. Some prospective parents have even contacted us directly, and after hearing what we've said, decided against sending their kids to a Cedu program. We are making a
difference here.
Like it or not, those are the facts. It really is a shame that you find accepting them so hard.
-
You're making a difference? Some kids belong at CEDU. Some kid probably desperately needed to be sent to CEDU, and you went and interfered with their family's affairs, and so the parents probably decided to wait it out a bit longer. And then the kid packed up the VW with his buddies, took off for California to live the "good life", and OD'd somewhere in Nebraska.
So fuck you, you're not making a difference. Is that how you justify your sad little life? "Well, I have a shitty job, and other than that I sit around and do shit all day, maybe smoke a little weed and jack off a few times, but at least I go on fornits and make a difference!" Kiss my ass.
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Furthermore, how the hell do you justify going to CEDU back in the 70's and 80's and then giving advice to parents whose kids are there in the late 90's and early 2000's? You probably wouldn't even recognize those schools if you went to them, I'm sure they've changed so fucking much. Just go do something more "meaningful", jackass.
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On 2006-01-12 08:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-11 19:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-11 06:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Serb,you should ignore this fool. He's sounds like just another brainwashed programmie trolling this site to get a rise out of people.
His sole purpose here is to disrupt any meaningful discussion.
By the the way, why is that so many CEDU programmies resort to calling people faggots, and generally seem to enjoy taking that sort of demeaning route when criticizing someone? Can't these people think of anything intellligent to say? It just seems so childish to me, like something I would've done maybe ten years ago. This lends support to the argument that CEDU causes arrested development."
Meaningful discussion (I'm assuming that's what your illiterate ass meant to write)? There is no meaningful discussion around here. Just a bunch of people who left CEDU ages ago, and should've gotten the fuck over it ages ago, ranting about stupid bullshit. Like calling the place a cult. No one here debates, they just bash each other when they can't agree, and gang up on each other when they finally do find someone who agrees with them. Just a bunch of hypocrites. Fuck y'all. "
So does this mean that you're leaving us?
Because if you are, then don't let the door hit your ass on the way out!
By the way, I?ve am over Cedu, and have been that way for a very long time now. This isn't about that at all. It's about Cedu?s systematic practices of abusing minors through the use of mind fucking experimental techniques, repressing them mentally by neglecting their education, and using of intimidation, coercion, isolation, and outright lies to distort their reality, and eliminate any outside influence contradictory to Cedu?s bizarre beliefs. No one here is ranting or whining, but we?re fed up that decent hard working families are losing their life savings, and sometimes even their homes, for their children to be traumatized by a bunch of unqualified con-artists.
Maybe you don?t care about other people, or about who else gets fucked. Well I?m not like you. I do care that kids are being hurt at these places, I care that parents are being lied to, and I care that criminals are getting rich by capitalizing on the misery of innocent
families. Cedu does not help families, they exploit them! Maybe you don?t care, and choose to ignore the abuse you saw, but I?m not like you. I do care, and I post here to get the truth out about those frauds!
The truth is: parents do visit this site, and they are indeed interested in what we have to say. Some prospective parents have even contacted us directly, and after hearing what we've said, decided against sending their kids to a Cedu program. We are making a
difference here.
Like it or not, those are the facts. It really is a shame that you find accepting them so hard.
"
Yeah, parents visit this site alright. Parents like Ottawa. Sounds like you real got through to her. And who the hell is getting rich? Maybe the fucker in Texas who owned Brown Schools was getting rich. Oh no wait, his little endeavour went BANKRUPT. I was at BCA for 2 1/2 years and the nicest car I ever saw in the parking lot was a god damn rental car.
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Hey Dipshit,
Get your facts straight, because I think you have me confused with someone else. I
was at RMA during the mid 90's and my experiences are completely relevant to what's happening there today.
Also if these forums show us anything, they demonstrate that that core methods
practiced by Cedu "schools" have in fact changed very little since their inception.
The academics these days are still sub par. The so-called councilors remain
unaccredited and unqualified. The alleged therapeutic techniques employed at
Cedu are still experimental, traumatic, and ultimately harmful to the victims.
Cedu?s program is based on Synanon (a documented cult). Children are coerced into accepting the philosophy of the program, through the use of humiliation, intimidation, isolation, and brainwashing. Parents are still being conned out of hundreds of
thousands of dollars for their children to learn ?tools? which are in fact completely useless to them when applied anywhere outside of the Cedu environment.
The fact is that the more we discuss Cedu?s past, the more we realize how little in
fact it has changed. The good news is the where Cedu once had in excess of 500 in
their thrall at any given time, these days that number has been reduced to about 15!
Just more proof of what a failure Cedu really is!
We are absolutely making a difference in how people view, and you know it too!
That?s why you?re so obsessed with trying to silence any and all criticism of your
beloved program! What do you have against us anyways? We?re only trying
to save people?s bank accounts and help their children at the same time. Why all of
this animosity?
And another thing dumbass: stop labeling me, because I never said ?that my job is
shitty?, or that ? I jack off all day.? I?m happy with the way my life is going, and I
like my job just fine. So please stop projecting your own insecurities about life onto
me. I?m doing quite well?You are the one being suckered by a bunch of frauds!
The truth is: NOBODY NEEDS CEDU, that?s just more bullshit that they fed you.
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On 2006-01-12 15:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Yeah, parents visit this site alright. Parents like Ottawa. Sounds like you real got through to her. And who the hell is getting rich? Maybe the fucker in Texas who owned Brown Schools was getting rich. Oh no wait, his little endeavour went BANKRUPT. I was at BCA for 2 1/2 years and the nicest car I ever saw in the parking lot was a god damn rental car. "
Wrong again dipshit! Getting through to Ottawa is impossible, as the women is denser than steel. No I wasn't talking about her. I was talking about parents like "Wayne",and "Defiants Mom", as well as others who've choosen to remain anonymous. Judging from the positive responses
we've gotten, it's obvious that we definately got through to them.
As for the money thing:
As I understand it Mel Wasserman (cedu's founder) died a very wealthy man. Mark Wasserman, the parasite that he is, continues
to live well off of Mel's corpse. I don't
Lon Woodbury complaining about money either,and he shouldn't either, because Cedu paid him a small fortune in commissions for his referrals.
I hear that Micheal Algood is pretty rich too.
I think the same can be said for all of the top dogs at cedu.
As for the guy in Texas who owned Brown, remember that Brown was incorporated. This means
that although all of Brown's corporate assets were indeed lost in the Bankruptcy, the owner's
personal assets are quite safe and remained completely untouchable by those proceedings.
If he played his cards right, then it's very possible that he made out like a bandit as well.
I agree with you that your average floor staff at cedu didn't get paid shit, but then again, most of them weren't worth shit either. And neither are you.
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On 2006-01-12 15:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-12 15:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
Yeah, parents visit this site alright. Parents like Ottawa. Sounds like you real got through to her. And who the hell is getting rich? Maybe the fucker in Texas who owned Brown Schools was getting rich. Oh no wait, his little endeavour went BANKRUPT. I was at BCA for 2 1/2 years and the nicest car I ever saw in the parking lot was a god damn rental car. "
Wrong again dipshit! Getting through to Ottawa is impossible, as the women is denser than steel. No I wasn't talking about her. I was talking about parents like "Wayne",and "Defiants Mom", as well as others who've choosen to remain anonymous. Judging from the positive responses we've gotten, it's obvious that we definately got through to them.
As for the money thing:
As I understand it Mel Wasserman (cedu's founder) died a very wealthy man. Mark Wasserman, the parasite that he is, continues to live well off of Mel's corpse. I don't
hear Lon Woodbury complaining about money either,and he shouldn't either, because Cedu paid him a small fortune in commissions for his referrals. I hear that Micheal Algood is pretty rich too.I think the same can be said for all of the top dogs at cedu.
As for the guy in Texas who owned Brown, remember that Brown was incorporated. This means that although all of Brown's corporate assets were indeed lost in the Bankruptcy, the owner's personal assets are quite safe and remained completely untouchable by those proceedings. If he played his cards right, then it's very possible
that he made out like a bandit as well.
I agree with you that your average floor staff at cedu didn't get paid shit, but then
again, most of them weren't worth shit either. And neither are you.
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Haha whatever you say, ya little fairy. I'm glad they got rich by fucking with your mind. You're pathetic enough to have let it happen, so you deserved every second of it. You're just as bad as Serb. If I'm not worth shit, why the fuck did you waste so much time trying to tell me off? You're a joke, come on over here and lick my rim a little.
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Dipshit Wrote:
"why the fuck did you waste so much time trying to tell me off? "
Because I have fun busting programmie losers like you on their shit! Believe me,it's not much effort, and I don't spent much time at all! :wave:
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On 2006-01-12 16:30:00, Dipshit wrote:
"come on over here and lick my rim a little. "
Hell no you sick fuck! And you're at the wrong website, if that's what you're looking for.
None of your smush buddy, cedu faggot friends post here! I sounds like you have some serious issues left over from cedu yourself rim-boy!
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On 2006-01-13 08:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-01-12 16:30:00, Dipshit wrote:
"come on over here and lick my rim a little. "
Hell no you sick fuck! And you're at the wrong website, if that's what you're looking for.
None of your smush buddy, cedu faggot friends post here! It sounds like you have some serious issues left over from cedu yourself rim-boy!"
hahaha! now that was some funny shit right there!
i'm also picking up a gay sort of vibe from the hostile anon, it's more that though, this guy defends cedu like some obsessed
lover would. i'd hate to see the skeletons in his closet, which obviously exist by the way.
sick, sick, sick
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Haha whatever you say, ya little fairy. I'm glad they got rich by fucking with your mind. You're pathetic enough to have let it happen, so you deserved every second of it.>>>
actually, his mind doesn't seem fucked up. you, on the other hand, seem to be the one who got washed. you exemplify the program.
sorry no one 'made a difference' for you.
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Keep in mind you little fairies that I only defend CEDU when it means I get the chance to attack you. You guys are just losers, far too easy of targets. Faggets.
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On 2006-01-13 11:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Keep in mind you little fairies that I only defend CEDU when it means I get the chance to attack you. You guys are just losers, far too easy of targets. Faggets. "
Good lord, girlfriend, at least spell FAGGOT correctly.
Well, now you know, and knowing is half the battle.