Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Mission Mountain School => Topic started by: Anonymous on June 24, 2005, 02:51:00 AM

Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2005, 02:51:00 AM
Hey there girls....My name is Betsy.
I was the the first youngest Girl to go to MMS and the first to start the 3 year 'trend'. The school was strictly 2yrs or less before me...  :smile: Whats up???
I had a 3 year stay and let me tell you it wasn't nice....but i learned A TON!!!!  If you girls walk away from MMS and say shit than SHAME on you... obviously you didnt get the point.
Interventions were indeed a biweekly if not weekly occurance in my stay.lasting no longer than two months and YES we showered. and interventions at times where for general reasons like the group is in a "bad place" But NOT for trading bras...what is that bull??  22mile ski?? thats nothing for what the 94-97 girls did. All night groups were a very very common thing. Life was focused on Exercise rather than other things.
DON'T GET ME WRONG!!! JUST TRYING TO SAY IT WAS FUCKING HARD.....But I am who i am due to the experince and time at mms. I know others would disagree but think about it. I have a genuine deep sense of who i am due to the tools and skills i learned. Granted I can't run a mile anymore in under 6 min but what general 'normal' person can?
Anyway. Love the place...went back as an intern for a summer and know a few of the girls on the post.....where are all the old timers????  Also keep in contack with Mike and deb who live one hour south of me and have taken care of the Mercer girls due to my nanny work experience.... and whos going to this reunion.  I think i should go just to represent the old timers.
Just wantt to put my two sense in. Feel free to contact me anyone......Kat.  [email protected]
Would love to share and talk . And no im not that bitchy...just have strong feelings and ties to the school.
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: katfish on June 24, 2005, 04:25:00 AM
Hey Besty,

I definitely think that you and MMS were a perfect fit, a match made in heaven if you will. I almost forsaw that one- what did you do at MMS, I mean, as an intern?  Were you in college or was it just a after high school thing?  3 yrs is long time- where it like a badge of honor.  I would have likely killed myself had I had to stay there...  What year did you work there???  

  Truthfully, with all do respect, I  can only picture you as a staffer-  you and Laurel Hahn.  In my mind, because of your overzealousness and intolerance toward my experience on  a few years back-linked somewhere on this forum- a bit astonishing, I can only imaginwhat it you would have been like having you as a staff and me as a student.  given the lack of empathy and continual claims i was 'mms bashing (an MMS term), i think it would have sucked-- but maybe the students acutal felt connected with you.  See, what you said to me on the other forum sounded much like pompous mercerisms.  I can't help but tune out when I here the same things the school used to tell us re-iterated into my ear over and over again.  It's all rhetoric to me and maybe that's my problem. Truely, I want to understand why, while girls that think there were bad things about the school can admit the good things and talk about them, while the girls who are strong advocates for the school can not mention nor discuss the problems they have with the school ?  
We all know it's not a black and white issue, no matter what side of the fence we're on. Surely the worst person in the world has some good in them, so would MMS- break down that to John Mercer, Colleen Harrington, Mike Finn, Deborah Finn, why wouldn't they too?  
Anyway, as I was thinking about you interning, I envision you talking down to the students a lot...Not only b/c  it's a sense i get of the way you behaved when you first arrived at MMS and we met, but also b/c calling girls out was the general mood of students and aim of the school- being in the good graces of John and Mike was the utopia of our little Condon land--  I can't imagine much changed since i left.  I really mean all this in the most respectful way possible- I can't imagine not taking that feeling of being the one with 'power' and 'right' and it somehow escaping your sensibilities, especially if that is the conditioned response forced upon you (as you didn't have a choice, did you?) after 3 years of excersize and the MMS way?  Did they not afterall create and then repeatedly point out a different set of standard upon us everyday until it became 'natural' and we began to inact/ mimic what we saw?
(The fact that they're perceived as negative by me is one thing, the fact that they use coercive tecniques to maintain 'obedience' is another theoretical issue all together that I find in dire need of questioning in terms of legitamacy)

I too have very stong feelings on MMS, but much has been written on the topic- all, for the most part are about how the school harmed me or written in the defensive of others with like stories who feel that mms did equal, if not more, damage, no point to rehash it.

I'm curious how you are?  Were you working on a widerness camp degree- hence MMS?  Are you done with school?  You must be a few years younger than me, i would guess...  

I'll post more about me when it's not so late- I am a fool for staying up this late.

[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-11-05 14:19 ]
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2005, 05:41:00 PM
hey kat...thanks for replying so fast.
Well, I find humor in your opinions of me cause although i went to mms a not that way now. I don't remember what I wrote before but from what I can remember i was fresh out of mms and im sorry if i talked down to you.
 DOn't get my wrong there were things that i disaggree with and which i want to post a new thread about.
I was an intern for one summer and NO i was not like La who was also an intern. She was mean and considered one of the "staff" by staff members and students. I on the other hand having always been "full of shit" was just a watcher. No i never worked for a wilderness...why?

Currently im a Certified Baker Cake decorating for Safeway....Living in arizona with my bf of 7+ years.
You?? WHats up with you.
Let me tell you Kat....I always liked you and I want to  keep in touch. I do have things baout MMS that i owuld like to share with someone....and I want the other newbees to see it from a differnt side. MMS got worse after you terms of exercise and interventions. But im gonna post a huge devils advocate thing on this issue.
Tlak to you soon.
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: katfish on June 24, 2005, 06:30:00 PM

you're living with your birth father??  woa, that must be pretty cool.  I've lost my father to alzeimers and it's tough, i hope the relationship is going well and maybe I can live vicariously through you!

Yea, I heard about La, well, I'm glad you weren't like her.  I can only imagine.  I'm actaully suprised, you sound really good.  I'm happy for you, I hope that you're satisfied with your life...

A little about me- I'm graduating soon- finally.  I may go to grad school, i kind of would like to get PhD in political theory- i really love the topic-  if not I would like to study law... who know's. As of now I think I will be leaving NYC to greener pastures, maybe LA or Florida.  My g/f works in film, but is having second thoughts about pursuing it fully- so it's almost up to her where we go.  She can earn a liiving in Florida working with her step father building homes.  not thrilled about the prospect of FL, but I'm thrilled about her so I will likely soon live in a state that, last I heard, does not allow people like she and I do adopt kids... great.
Beyond that, not much is going on.  My mom's living in mexico, we talk when we can but aren't super close b/c...well, she's got issues that are difficult to reconcile in terms of our relationship. She's a Jehovi, need I say more?
By the way, how are your parents?  did you ever meet your biological mom?  
I heard MMS got way worse after I left- I would imagine you would call it 'better' though, no?  Presumably our definitions of what is 'good' and bad' differ? Curious what you have to say about your experience.  I have yet to understand how coercive practices, a. can be justified at any level and b. how they are, at their core truly effective and helpful and c. how, given it's helpful for some and harmful to others, there is no room for admission of guilt for those who it did wrong within its current framework...
I wonder, did you too have nightmares about MMS after you left- things like being sent back or going back and not being able to leave?
People have e-mailed Colleen seeking answers and (far as I know they did not reply) while, yes, some questions are fueled by hostility and anger, rightly so I may say, why wouldn't they as an institution reply- why the deliberate hold up on providing answers?  dunno.
ok, got to go.  I'm so drowsy, I have a beer everyonce in a while, oddly enough, even if I have one I feel hungover the next day.  I had 3 last night and I'm swimming in fuzziness...and I have a 10 pager due on (if you know anything about femenist political thought) Carol Pateman notion of 'sexual contract'.  It's going to be a long weekend-  but the Gay Pride parade of NYC crosses in front of our apt.  (it's madness like you wouldn't believe).  So despite my work I have my party hat on and am ready to nurse a beer for 5 hours- lest i incur the evil hang over.  

ps. reason i reply so quickly is i'm avoiding real work...i just can't wait to get my BA over and  done with it![ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-11-05 14:19 ]
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2005, 08:32:00 PM
Hey Kat! Remember me?!?! This is Julie from Memphis, TN...jewlz:)
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: katfish on June 24, 2005, 08:38:00 PM
julie?  Trying to think...when were you at MMS?

Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2005, 08:40:00 PM
I graduated the same year as you...I was short...brown hair and mom passed away from cancer while I was there...right before christmas...remember now?
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2005, 08:43:00 PM
correction...grad after you in might not know me...but uh...I am a good friend of Betsys...
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 24, 2005, 08:50:00 PM
hey kat.
no not my bio dad my b/f sorry forgot the slash.
Y u so supprized im dooing good??
glad things are goin good for you. Would love to go to NYC.
Nothing against you but y is everyone from mms a lesbian??
im not but its a huge precentage of people who are than who aren't
do u keep in contact with others??
I think people aren't to sure of me....they remember me as i was but don't know me of who i am. It kinda sucks feels like the school ALLL over again.
No nightmares but its hard for me to do things like running without the voices of the 'school' in head.
The school did get harder and NO i don't think it was for the better. You think i liked 3 hour exercises?? F*** NO!!!! The only good part was that i was in the best shape in my life than i even have been and ever will be.
interventions were way to common.
Well ill talk more in my lon post of mms
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: katfish on June 25, 2005, 01:11:00 AM
Hey B,

I'm not surprised you're doing good, just that you sound good.  Yes, I recall you as quite a bitch, you sound much nicer now-

where's your long post of mms?

Julie, don't think we met, I left mms in '94- but, nice to meet you now!

About the lesbian thing, I only know one girl who was gay while I was there, she didn't really talk about it while there at all, one of the things MMS did not no facilitate while I was there was real discussion about sexuality (and I'm not talking about 'admitting' to having some crush on a girl) she later went on to get married and have few kids.  Last I heard she was trying to figure out how to handle the reality of being gay- she left way early though, like '92 or early '93.  She was older though, too, 18 or so and I don't think had time to even really figure herself out, esp b/c lack of facilitation in that...I left MMS when I was 15, I had time to figure it out.
I heard Hillary was gay, but don't know anything about that as I left shortly after she arrived.  I don't think that most girls at MMS are gay, at least definitely not while I was there.  Maybe some experimented, but in terms of defining themselves as gay, don't think so...
Maybe more came after I left?

 Stephanie Smith, guess her last name is Andrews now, lived with me when I first moved to NYC, but we lost touch after she left to go back to Ca.  Sara and I lived together at boarding school immediately after MMS.  I spoke to a few girls who were there a few years before you, but lost touch with them- Sarah Matheson, Jessica Bean- don't think you knew them.  Norina Edelman is on - don't know if you know her...  Katie H was on this thing, she wrote me briefly, i replied but haven't heard back from her yet but she talks to Shayna Finegold and Addie Harris and someone else who I can't remember at the moment- did you meet them??
Oh, Jenn Crain, we've e-mailed a bit, but havent' heard from her as of late...
Do you talk to anyone?  Also, I can forward them your e-mail addy if you'd like...
Also, what years were you at MMS, I think I may know some girls who were there while you interned...
[ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-11-05 14:20 ][ This Message was edited by: katfish on 2005-11-05 14:22 ]
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2005, 01:26:00 PM
Hi julie,
I remember you.  This is claire, you know, the one diggiing stumps forever.  HOw are shouldn't know Kat, she left before we were there. Just thought I'd say hi.
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2005, 02:24:00 PM
hey kat.
Yeah i went to school '94-'97 amd interned 2000...
Jennifer Crain!!! you still keep in contact with her?? would love to get back in touch with her.
Michelle Callner? is she around?
I know a lot of names and can put the faces together but don't really "know" them. I can remember everyone youre talking about.

Well esp in '97 ALOT of girls turned out to be an lesbian and the school was very unhappy. I remember '97 graduation and two girls that had been sexual together had to tell EVERYONE....parents inculded what they did. that was bad. my parents were so glad that my grandparents weren't able to make it. they would have been sooo disappointed that my parents sent me to a school "like that". Even my brothers thought it was so unessacary for them to have to tell everyone. And my uncle the catholic priest!!!, well he wasn't pleased. People paied money to come visit us. not to hear that.
wondeer why so people aren't responding to me. Have you heard anything about before i started posting?? I know sarah f has said a lot of stuff about me that is way not true and has resulted in some friendships ending.
well keep in touch Kat. Glad to reconnect.
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2005, 02:55:00 PM
uhhh.... Hi claire...its betsy.
Im sure you think im still bitchy betsy but im not. Would be nice if you gave me a chance.
Were roumors spread about me or somthing cause alot of people don't respond. I know someone who was saying stuff but please don't believe it or have the respect to ask me about it.
hope your doing well...heard you got married?? hope all is well
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: sunshine on June 25, 2005, 04:02:00 PM
betsy: this is carolina! I havent heard shit being talked about you, other than you had attitude while we were there, but I remember by the end of my stay there we were roommates in two cabins in a row, and you were actually nice. It took a little bickering between you and I before we got over it, but we did, and I actually have nice memories of you. I remember being sasd that you werent there when my mama came to see me, (she stayed in your bed, remember?). So, dont worry, i got over the bitchiness, as i amm glad to hear that you have. Im glad that you are doing well... I remember Julie too, I left before her mother passed, but Im glad that you guys have stayed cnnected. I live in Florida, I have a baby, i am engaged to Jason, my man. My baby is supercute, he is 6 months old, and he has five teeth! Anyway, good to hear from you. take care

When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2005, 04:18:00 PM
hey ignore my other post  k.....
Wow thats so awsome for you. I have a bf of 7yrs and we are now finally living together...loooonnnnng story!!  
I do remember living with you and I do miss you. Ill tell jewls to check this site again. She got upset about what is being said on the posts.
do you have instant messageing with AOL??? me and jewls talk almost every night on it.
keep in touch k....
u goin to the reunion???
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2005, 05:33:00 PM
oh betsey, dear betsey....I am not ignoring you, just that I'm at work and have only moments to write here and there. I hope you're nicer, because back then you weren't.  But I have no opinion really being that it's been ten years and I don't even know you anymore.  I am married, have a four-year-old daughter named grace, and I own a boutique in montana--a very hip little town south of missoula.  
unfortunately, we never had a chance.  John used you against me at the ungliest time in my life to date.  I would love to share more of that with you and why I am now an opponent of mms and believe that even ten years later I am still healing from the trauma john inflictted.  He was deawd wrong, (how couldn't he be...he had no training in phsycology and a huge and frightening ego to match) about my personality.  I NEVER told a lie while I was there, I NEVER stole food, or withheld information and the more I said that, the worse it got, until I was at the point of making up stories to appease him.  He used your "bitchiness" just to be mean.  If you remember, you were my "food partner" and would elbow my in the arm when I didn't eat at the pace you felt I should. I don't really blame you, you were doing what you were told, but I also remember the humiliation at being eighteen and being told by someone so much younger how to eat my food and sometimes getting me in more trouble,NOT what I needed.  I don't say this to hurt your feelings, just to let you know where my memories are and I'll bet you were just young and confussed like the rest of us. I would love to know how others are doing and the "truth" about mike and deb. more later
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2005, 01:03:00 AM
Claire....hey exciting.
What type of boutique do you have??How adorable a 4 year old daughter. WOW. She most be as beautiful as i remember you.
I do slightly remember some of what you are talking about and have NO idea what you mean when you say john used my bitchyness against you at your dating time???
MMS---wow, as said by kat many times.."what an experience".
Are you going to the reunion?? I would assume not. I understand. I now have an a slight eating  disorder and body image due to the eating experience at school.I know i didnt have before i was there..... Im always trying to diet and I view myself as HUGE!! That is one thing i don't like having taken from the shcool. My bf could live without my complaints of myself. And to exercise....its hard to motivate myself with out hearing girls in my head.....or ellen for that matter.
Email me directly or write your email for me...i will tell you more about mike and deb.
Im glad your doing well.
Miss you and hope to hear from you soon.
[email protected]

Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2005, 02:02:00 AM
Good to see everyone reuniting. Speaking of Michelle Callner ... check out the wonderful job she did on designing the brochure and slide show on the CAICA website at (
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 26, 2005, 08:45:00 PM
Anybody remember Kelli Goldman?
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: tamtam on June 28, 2005, 02:23:00 AM
Claire-- it's Tamara... =)  I haven't heard from you in ages!  Anyway, we kept in touch for a while, and I have lots of fun singing memories with you.  How ARE you???  Daughter? Living in Montana... I would love to catch up with you if you.  [email protected]
Title: Graduated 97\'-Hey Kat
Post by: Anonymous on June 28, 2005, 09:24:00 PM
Hey Claire...I do remember you! Sorry so long to reply...oh yes..I remember the stump days...So how have you been? Please Email me if you [email protected]...THAT GOES FOR ANY OF YOU OUT THERE...