Fornits

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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

if the choice is between urinating on yourself (a punishment in itself)& then being punished, or being hated by your peers, How grotesque is that. I am beginning to think that the reason why kids are not believed when their teachers (or whoever those people who call the parents are) say they are lying is because what is done to them is so outlandishly horrible it does not seem believable. To be honest if my kid told me that they made him urinate on himself I would have a hard time believing it.  
Dont kids who are disrespectful (whatever that is exactly) need adults who are firm but fair. Most of these BTS sites talk about consequences for misbehaviour but the consequences are so illogical anyway that if your kid is in for something genuinely awful, i cant see how he would associate the consequence with whatever it is that he or she did. I also can not see how a kid with anger management issues would not be seething with rage if he is forced to do something as base and disgusting as urinating on himself!

The irony to me is that american kids are statistically no more drug addled, pregnant ot "troubled" than their peers in other western countries. They are also more likely to be church going. This makes me wonder if the kids who are even slightly outside of the box are seen by society as more "out of control" than they really are. Moreover having worked with mainstream American kids (and i am aware that they are not the "troubled" category that is spoken of in this industry)I foung that in some ways they are more polite and respectful to grown ups than their Australian counterparts. I can't tell you for instance, how much i had to bite back laughter the first time a kid called me maam! If a kid did that at home it would be laced with sarcasm!

Hey Laura
I forgot to add. I would also prepare my friend for the worst case scenario to try & help minimise any damage. If she mouths off when angry & is going somewhere big on "defiance issues" help her to avoid the punishments by coming up with strategies to fly under the radar and manage her anger. Is the place big on forced confession? Make sure she has a few lies up her sleve. Is she a bit on the over weight side, but going to a place which is all about forced exercise?  Try & help her to make sure she gets as much access  to water as possible. In the event that the place lets kids write to non relatives again if you can get a supportive adult that she can write to on side in the event of an emergency (this includes psychological) this could help.
Be ready to support her when she gets out it sounds like she will need her friends.

Exactly. i would imagine a bit of "manipulation" is not unhealthy. It is part of learning to negotiate as in:
"mom can i go to a party"
"i dont know didnt this kid have heaps of alcohol there last time"
"yes but her parents will be there so they will be able to prevent it from getting too out of control because her Dad & uncle barry will be staffing the bar"
"Ok but I will pick you up- i dont want you getting a lift with a kid who has six beers under his belt!"
Yah thanks mum!!!  :wink:
PS Are american kids allowed to drink alcohol on private property? or is that only an australian thing?

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"This may be seen as manipulation" - this statement disgusts me to my very core, but the really disturbing thing is that it might be correct.


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hey i dint say i agree with it. i have just noted that it is a common refrain on the mant websites i have been now seen.

Hi Mate
I would say that the way you approach this issue depends on a few things. What is your friend going "in" for. A lot of the websites for Wilderness therapy market to a wide variety of parental concerns.
The best thing to do is to come up with some good alternatives. For instance if Mom is worried about "motivation" you could suggest that you and your friend get a part time job over the summer or that she get a tutor and monitor closely your friends grades & help them improve. Make sure that your friend is in on suggesting viable solutions. This way it wont come across as whining which may be percieved as an attitude issue. (another apparent rsn to send your kid to these places)

Also tell the mum specifically what wilderness therapy was supposed to do for you and where it failed. If it was meant to adress mental health issues for example, talk about what worked better and what has helped.
Is there a sympathetic adult that the mum respects as well? go to them with your friend and see what they can do to help. Fact is mom is going to be more likely to respond to anothr adult.
Strongly discourage your friend from crying or whining about it or having a tantrum. This may be seen as manupulation.  
Bottom line is you need as many reasonalbe alternatives as possible. So many parents on Struggling teens etc say they feel desperate & have no alternative.
If absolutely nothing non confrontational works, your friend pretty much has 2 choices. She can suck it up, tell herself it is only a few months and try to make as little trouble for herself while she is there as possible or she can try and refuse to go. If she is planning to "run away" just doing so aimlessly wont help @ all, she will need to have a sympathetic adult to run to. This needs to be done before escorts get involved.
Best of Luck

I can see where the lady who opened this post is coming from. Having said thhat i dont think that judgement helps either. I feel for the parents of so called "troubled" teen because they have a media and an industry preying on their worst fears. There is a real need for cultural change

This outward bound thing looks excellent from its website. This is why i am fast becoming against wildreness "programmes" which just seem to (from what i have so far seen) be designed to punish/reform convicted felons or force other kids to "modify" their behavour and in some cases make a profit from being punitive or "therapudic".

I noted that the outward bound programme was marketed to the kids not to the parents. I also noted that it is a not for profit org. This is what i was getting at earlier. This outward bound thing could possiblydo what "the programmes" claim they are there for by building confidence, giving families a break from each other and having kids achieve something in a fun setting. It is not about "modifying behavour" or stripping kids of basic privileges to create the perfect kid, it is about engaging young peole and bringing out their best. This seems to be exactly where the for profit progammes fail because even the"good" ones seem to focus on the negatives.

On 2006-06-10 12:23:00, Anonymous wrote:

"It is not the Al Gore Douche Bag Liberals who are getting rich off off the TBS you claim to hate.  It is the neoconartist, rightwing, Republican contributing theives.  Also look at present role models, i.e.,  the Ken Lays (whose real millions reside in off-shore bankd) and others of this country who barely get a slap on the wrist for pillaging their companies, driving them into bankruptcy; the war profiteers like Haliburton who are not even scolded when they can't explain what happened to billions of dollars sucked out of the American economy and given to them by, who? Al Gore and company?  Oh and then there is lovely United Airlines who gave away millions to their executives but had to dump the pension plan (cutting back benefits) on the American public, cancel health plans for the retired etc. As long as you are rich I guess "consequences" don't apply. The list goes on and on and it is not the Al Gore Douche Bags that are behind it or getting rich off of it.  By the way I DO consider what was done to you to be abuse, which may be one reason for your apparent rage.  Your family would not have had to resort to violence if they could really parent.  I know many extremely successful families where the parents never had to resort to physical violence; perhpas that is why they are successful. "

cmon you guys lighten up, twosprings was being FUNNY :silly: