Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 22, 2005, 07:35:00 AM
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Tim Brace, formerly of ASR and several other facilities frequently mentioned on this forum, has opened Carlbrook School in the same county in Virginia where Wellspring Academy was until it closed a couple years ago.
A bunch of the staff are from places mentioned on this forum too. Does anybody know anything about Carlbrook? Are there actually any good "therapeutic boarding schools" out there?
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On 2005-03-22 04:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Tim Brace, formerly of ASR and several other facilities frequently mentioned on this forum, has opened Carlbrook School in the same county in Virginia where Wellspring Academy was until it closed a couple years ago.
A bunch of the staff are from places mentioned on this forum too. Does anybody know anything about Carlbrook? Are there actually any good "therapeutic boarding schools" out there?"
I don't recommend "therapeutic boarding schools" unless a child is actively a danger to self or others, and hospitalization and day hospitalization have already been tried and failed to stabilize the child on medication---hospitalization should be tried usually *several* times before giving up on it. The second or third time frequently works at finding a med combination that will stabilize a mentally ill child.
*If* a child has been through all those options and is still an active danger and needs a longer hospitalization than a conventional mental hospital will do, then the parents need to pick an RTC that has been in business for years and years, hasn't recently had a change of ownership or significant change of administration, *doesn't* have survivors or parents all over the internet complaining of fraud and abuse, and *doesn't* accept juvenile delinquents who do not have a comorbid serious mental illness.
If the RTC that looks the best by those criteria has had a recent change of administration or ownership, check the new administrator out closely for prior connections to an abusive facility. *If* the new admin or owner worked in a bad place, ask around on survivor boards for that place to see if he was one of the good guys or a total bastard.
If the RTC that looks best is new check out the owner(s) and major admins for any connections to bad places. If there are any, avoid that place.
If you can't find an RTC that you can afford, that will take your kid, that meets those criteria, then you are best off making do with brief hospitalizations, day hospitalization, or even letting the kid end up in juvie jail rather than a bad RTC.
If you're afraid of suicide, a bad RTC is more likely to increase the risk than decrease it. Reduce stressors on the teen as much as possible, even if it means taking longer to finish school or living as a near invalid for several years, actively manage the teen's medication with a pdoc, and hope for the best. It's uncertain, but it increases the teen's odds.
If the teen is actively dangerous to others and you can't find a *good* RTC to take him, let the justice system take care of his violent acts as breaches of law and put him in jail. Jail is very much better and less a hazard to a violent teen than a bad RTC.
The point is, with a teen that is actively dangerous to self or others, to minimize the worst risks long enough for the teen to grow out of adolescence. Things almost always get *somewhat* better when a person grows out of her turbulent teen years.
If your teen is *not* actively dangerous to self or others, count your blessings and realize that anything else can be mended at least somewhat by the new adult when he or she is grown. A teen who is not actively dangerous to self or others doesn't need or deserve to be in an RTC at all---whether it's a good one or a bad one.
For a drug or alcohol addicted teen, *if* the teen wants help, 3-6 weeks in rehab and/or the *real* Outward Bound plus ongoing participation in Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous or the secular alternative is the *most* you should do. Forcing addicts who don't want help to get help has an abysmally poor track record---addicts who have been forced to get help have no better rate of remission from addiction than addicts who have *not* been forced to get help. Forced "help" simply doesn't work.
All you can do for an addict that doesn't want help is try not to provide supports that enable his addiction, like lying or making excuses for him to get him out of trouble, or bringing him medicine or making his food when he has a hangover, or giving him money or stuff he ought to be buying for himself. You *have* to give a minor addict food, shelter, and clothing. You *can* turn him in to the cops if he's stealing lots of your stuff or violent--you shouldn't if he isn't. What you don't have to do is coddle him or provide sympathy when he feels yucky from the drugs.
Casual users are *not* addicts no matter what the drug warrior idiots tell you. Don't treat them like idiots. Provide them with factual information about why their behavior is stupid and accept that, beyond increased supervision, you can't do anything about it. And that you can't supervise them all the time. Disapproval, information, and *reasonable* supervision is a proportional and responsible response to casual sex or casual drug use.
Most casual users survive it and quit on their own, and survive it better without their parents calling the cops or locking them in their rooms or sending them to an RTC or otherwise vastly over-reacting.
Yes, drug use is bad, even casual use. But the point is to shepherd the kid through adolescence with as little damage as possible. An RTC for a joint or two or weekend binge drinking is a "cure" that's worse than the disease.
The art of parenting a teen is the art of progressively letting go, more and more and more, until you completely let go, even while they turn your hair white with the crap they get up to.
We don't put two year olds in an RTC for having tantrums, we don't put ten year old boys in an RTC for being assholes, we don't put 13 year old girls in an RTC for being bitchy and superficial, and we shouldn't put teens in RTCs for driving fast, drinking, casually trying drugs, making bad grades, and screwing around.
Those bad behaviors, to a greater or lesser degree, are normal to the age and the stage of development, and the appropriate way to deal with them is by normal, consistent, rule-based, sane, stable, garden-variety parenting strategies.
Sending a wild, disobedient, disrespectful, pain in the ass, rebellious, defiant teen to an RTC is *not* a sane parenting strategy. Even if he is a horrible example to your younger children.
Bad-parent-flattering support groups aside, it's the easy way out, substituting spending money for taking personal responsibility for the personal obligation to raise that child.
If Jane parent pays anyone enough money, they'll tell her whatever she wants to hear about how good her bad behavior is. John parent and Betty parent who are engaging in the same bad behavior will be happy to engage in self-deluding empty flattery all day long about what a sacrifice they all are making, how they've made "the hard choice," and how they're not abandoning their children and their personal responsibility to them, and how their abandonment is an "act of love." It *is* empty flattery and it's all absolutely false.
Anyway, if you're considering an RTC for the right reasons, that's how to find a good one.
If you were considering an RTC for the wrong reasons, I hope you'll pay attention to your better judgement and choose not to listen to people filling your ears with empty flattery and plying you with tea and sympathy either because they want your money or they want you to join their conspiracy of self-congratulation for their *own* bad behavior.
Try all the alternatives first, including good parenting and living with your teen being a better or worse than average pain in the butt teen, before taking the huge risk of choosing an RTC.
Julie/Timoclea
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I'm originally from that part of the country and still usually visit southside Va. 2-3 months a year.
One way to find out if this school is NOT bogus is to call and ask how many day students attend. The public schools in Halifax County are terrible and more dangerous than surrounding counties. Still, there is a hospital so there are lots of doctors with money there. Those doctors tend to send their kids to the Fuqua School, which is 60 miles north. There are so many kids coming from Halifax, Fuqua provides an "express bus." Moreover, parents got together and rented a house so they and kids had a place to crash after sports events, weekend activities, etc. Still, bussing a kid 60 miles to school every day is not ideal and I KNOW that if there were a reasonable school in the area, these parents would certainly choose it. If there are NO day students, forget it.
I looked at the website and though there are some things that are typically Virginian, like the honor system and though the writing smacks of educationese "critical thinking," etc. I looked at the staff, and they are associated with Swift River, Cascade, there are some graduates of Brigham Young--but they do seem to have a real faculty. However, I'd call them, tell them I'm moving to the area and understand the public school system is terrible, and though Fuqua (K-12)(pronounced Foo-Kwah) was recommended, you hate the idea of your child taking a bus 60 miles to school every day.
EVERY reputable boarding and military school in VA. takes day students (in fact--that goes for everywhere) and if they don't take day students--you don't want to know from it. Private schools in this area are in great demand and a lot of parents send their kids to reputable boarding schools so they can simply get a good education
without traveling a zillion miles every day.
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You know--don't waste your time. This school is just another under the umbrella with a more believable website.
It occurred to me that there is an LDS church in Halifax, which is very strange in this part of the country. Everyone's Baptist--not holy roller Baptists, more like--let's not go to church this morning and go to the country club and drink some beer before we play golf type Baptist.
Also, this area of the state is very economically depressed, and they are desperate for anything that brings jobs.
I'd just add Carlbrook to the list of places to avoid.
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Huge disagreement here! My son went to Carlbrook and it was the best thing that could have happened to him. He's back at home now, and still contacts friends from school, most of whom have gone on to good colleges. Still emails his advisor and considers him a friend; still talks about the wonderful teachers, the small class sizes and the emphasis on academics. We still keep in touch with other parents via email, and almost all of them think the world of the school and its approach. Kids have to address their problems, but that's why they are there. The school has nothing to hide, as is evidenced by parent conferences which include a hundred or so parents visiting the school all at once (you won't see that at Provo, will you???) It may not be appropriate for every kid, but please get more firsthand info before making your decision.
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My son graduated from Carlbrook school after completing their 15 month program. Skeptical as I am, and frightened as I was to send my child away, I have not a single doubt about the integrity of the school. It was a hard place to be - no TV, no computer, no drugs, sex, and rock n roll... but the people there were the most compassionate, nurturing people, and the best therapists I've encountered in my career as a parent and as an educator/counselor. My son maintians close friendships with both students and staff and is now doing very well in college.
Is there an element of mind contol? Yeah, I think there is. The kids are isolated from everything but the school's philosophy. But the philosophy - having integrity, being a trustworthy friend, working hard, being true to yourself - is worth giving up the freedom to be an alienated teenager who is going down the tubes.
The answer is, yes there are good schools out there. But just like I wouldn't send my kids to a preschool I hadn't visited, I went to visit schools in person, talked to staff and kids, and talked to people I trust.
Definitely do not be swayed by slick websites, and my advice is avoid both the big corporate-owned schools and the mom and pop "We'll love him into health with the help of God" groups.
Like everything else in this world, you have to be savvy and ask the right questions and have a really good idea of what you're looking for.
Good luck.
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Just make sure that the school does not limit parent/child contact and allows frequent visitation. Any program that doesnt' is suspect for being abusive in my oppinion. When a school is open to the public then the risk of abuse is much lower. If the program has a point system and punishments then it is not appropriate and reeks of a WWASP-like program. Make sure that the program does not take away basic freedom. The child should not have to ask permission to go to the bathroom. Also they should have the freedom of speech - they should not be punished for saying they aren't happy or don't like the school. Find out about punishment - do they use isolation - do they restrain kids or use chemical restraints. If the answer is yes -then back away.
Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln
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Carlbrook is not the wonderful and pristine place so many parents think it is. There are brilliant minds trapped on a campus with not enough staff to supervise everyone. Kids get bullied in dorms, there is sex in the dorms, in bathrooms, in classrooms and on the path between buildings--shit happens. Not to mention our esteemed leaders who are fucking each other and cheating on their spouses with their co-workers. One of the owners kids tells students "my daddy sleeps with ---- and he sleeps naked" when she came to visit. Lovely role model huh? Hey lets look to our dean of advising instead. Oh...he is too busy screwing his associate director in his office or making out with her in the parking lot. Yeah...great place with wonderful roll models there to spout off bullshit and then try to lay down the law and tell the kids to do the "right thing".
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Is there an element of mind contol? Yeah, I think there is. The kids are isolated from everything but the school's philosophy. But the philosophy - having integrity, being a trustworthy friend, working hard, being true to yourself - is worth giving up the freedom to be an alienated teenager who is going down the tubes.
wow. this is twisted. why not just send junior to north korea?
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Is there an element of mind contol? Yeah, I think there is. The kids are isolated from everything but the school's philosophy. But the philosophy - having integrity, being a trustworthy friend, working hard, being true to yourself - is worth giving up the freedom to be an alienated teenager who is going down the tubes.
wow. this is twisted. why not just send junior to north korea?
this sounds like other tbs's that these people were involved with administrating. makes ya wonder - is this environment created by the kids or the facility? seems to follow these folks wherever they go - cedu, asr, etc, etc...
why don't parents get this?
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Carlbrook is not the wonderful and pristine place so many parents think it is. There are brilliant minds trapped on a campus with not enough staff to supervise everyone. Kids get bullied in dorms, there is sex in the dorms, in bathrooms, in classrooms and on the path between buildings--shit happens. Not to mention our esteemed leaders who are fucking each other and cheating on their spouses with their co-workers. One of the owners kids tells students "my daddy sleeps with ---- and he sleeps naked" when she came to visit. Lovely role model huh? Hey lets look to our dean of advising instead. Oh...he is too busy screwing his associate director in his office or making out with her in the parking lot. Yeah...great place with wonderful roll models there to spout off bullshit and then try to lay down the law and tell the kids to do the "right thing".
sorry. meant this quote for previous post...
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Hey- these places are in remote towns. The staff has to get some when they can. Probably doesn't affect the therapeutic component that much. Hard to picture Matthew with his head in some woman's chest. When the owners start sleeping with students there might be something to talk about. Sex among faculty in a small school in a small town- no news there.
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Karen, the Carlbrook apologist extraordinaire! :roll:
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Get fucked. I'mnot Karen- I'm a grad. Not defending the place either. They had a real perv there for awhile named Peter, but they got rid of him as soon as they realized what they had. Place isn't perfect but it saved my ass.
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Hey- these places are in remote towns. The staff has to get some when they can. Probably doesn't affect the therapeutic component that much. Hard to picture Matthew with his head in some woman's chest. When the owners start sleeping with students there might be something to talk about. Sex among faculty in a small school in a small town- no news there.
"When the owners start sleeping with students there might be something to talk about."
There MIGHT BE something to talk about when staff bangs kids? Karen, you're a fucking retard. With this and your pushing kids to get abortions when they don't want to your morals are in the toilet.
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The fucking retard would be YOU. I'm not Karen, fucktard, but I do happen to support the right to have an abortion.
Who are you to judge anyone's morals, shithead.
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The fucking retard would be YOU. I'm not Karen, fucktard, but I do happen to support the right to have an abortion.
Who are you to judge anyone's morals, shithead.
Sure sounds like Karen to me, in all her elequent glory.
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Carlbrook is a shit-hole. It's run by veteran abusive program staff who lost jobs at other facilities due to abuse.
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I disagree and I went there.
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I agree, and I went there too. When were you there, maybe I knew you?
GK
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Carlbrook is a shit-hole. It's run by veteran abusive program staff who lost jobs at other facilities due to abuse.
You are completely right!
GK
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Carlbrook is a shit-hole. It's run by veteran abusive program staff who lost jobs at other facilities due to abuse.
You are completely right!
GK
What can you tell us about your experience at Carlbrook?
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Most of these comments are SO way off base about Carlbrook. My son was among one of the first graduating classes of the school at the end of 2004. CARLBROOK SAVED HIS LIFE. He gained back his feelings of self-worth and self-esteem. He believed in himself again after years of feeling he would never amount to anything. He felt motivated to do his schoolwork again. The sparkle came back into his eyes. He stands tall and proud. He is confident. And now, in his second year in College, he is a straight A student at the top Engineering school in the country (something Justin Merritt, Carlbrook's College Advisor, worked hours to help make happen.)
The founders of the school sacrificed a great deal to give up their businesses, careers, etc. and relocate to the middle of Virginia. They then put their hearts, souls, money, futures into this dream of theirs which was to make the perfect school for kids who are today, like they were when they were teens. They culled the best talent and won them over to leave everything and bring their families to Virginia to join them in building this dream. All of these educators, counselors, people who were so experienced in working with troubled teens knew that so many schools fall provide inadequate programs that do not improve these kids at all. Grant and Matthew wanted to develop a program that they wished they had had, back when they were teens. They felt that with the right staff and resources, they could succeed in getting kids back on track.
Grant Price and Matthew Lovell had a vision and brought in the talent (including themselves) to make it a reality. My son now keeps in touch with many successful alumnae of Carlbrook who continue to be doing well in College and have not lapsed back into old patterns.
For parents considering these schools: Do research...Use an education Consultant if there is a good one in your community. He/she will guide you toward a good fit for your child. Good luck
And as a parent, I can tell you, for my son, I will be forever indebted to them.
[/b]
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Carlbrook is a shit-hole. It's run by veteran abusive program staff who lost jobs at other facilities due to abuse.
You are completely right!
GK
Tell that to the kid who actually WENT THERE. He thinks its an abusive shithole run by freaks run out of other towns and programs for abusing kids.
Start with the top guy, Tim Brace. Employee of several well-known, proven abusive facilities, one of which was shut down for abuse.
Your experience as a parent means nothing. I want to talk to the inmates and read reference materials about their abusers, which are in abundance, BTW.
So save it, abusiveshitholemom, for someone who would believe your nonsense.
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Let the Carlbrook troll post freely, it hardly serves their intended purspose. Check out the search engine statistics on fornits, and you'll see that the term "carlbrook' is now a major hitter for this site. All because this same person comes back and keeps talking about Carlbrook. Now when people search for Carlbrook they will find fornits, and I doubt that is what the troll wanted. Or is it? :wink:
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I went to carlbrook August 19, 2005-March 1, 2006
a little backround:
I am a former cocaine, xtc, painkiller, benzo, meth addict who was way out of line at home and stealing and arrested for assault and battery. I asked my parents for help and this is what they did:
1. sent me to a residentail treatment center for one month (Hazelden in Minisota)
2. dirrectly sent me to a wilderness program for 7weeks (second nature Utah)
3. dirrectly sent to Carlbrook school in Virginia
My experience at Carlbrook was double sided.
The acedemics there were great and i enjoyed the classes very much.
The "therapy" however was terrible. The owner of the school is border line insane.
i would describe my experience there as abusive un unhelpful.
I would go into specifics but I would go on for pages.
If anyone has any specific questions regarding Carlbrook School feel free to ask me: [email protected]
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Sounds like Dimitri cut short the program. Kicked out or pulled by the parents?
The top guy is not Tim Brace. It is Grant Price.
Tim Brace is not abusive.
More bullshit on fornits.
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I went to carlbrook August 19, 2005-March 1, 2006
a little backround:
I am a former cocaine, xtc, painkiller, benzo, meth addict who was way out of line at home and stealing and arrested for assault and battery. I asked my parents for help and this is what they did:
1. sent me to a residentail treatment center for one month (Hazelden in Minisota)
2. dirrectly sent me to a wilderness program for 7weeks (second nature Utah)
3. dirrectly sent to Carlbrook school in Virginia
My experience at Carlbrook was double sided.
The acedemics there were great and i enjoyed the classes very much.
The "therapy" however was terrible. The owner of the school is border line insane.
i would describe my experience there as abusive un unhelpful.
I would go into specifics but I would go on for pages.
If anyone has any specific questions regarding Carlbrook School feel free to ask me: [email protected]
Thanks for confirming this, something many have suspected on this board for a while.
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Sounds like Dimitri cut short the program. Kicked out or pulled by the parents?
The top guy is not Tim Brace. It is Grant Price.
Tim Brace is not abusive.
More bullshit on fornits.
"blame the kid"
great :roll:
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i went to carlbrook school. it's a really bad place. the staff used to hit me and sometimes did "red flag" touches in my private areas. this place should be avoided at any cost. plus i have to redo my highschool work because they aren't accredited. i'm worse off today than the day i checked in there.
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Karen will be by shortly.
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I went to Carlbrook from July 05 to June 06... the experiences i had there were both positive and negative... First off, i had very very little behavioral problems and virtually no drug or alchohol problems. I feel i was placed there unfairly. My ed-consultant was the owners mother and my wood's therapist was their close family friend. I feel i was placed at Carlbrook out of convience and manipulation, not out of actually need. Carlbrook felt like Jail. My advisor was extremely manipulative and by the end of my stay there i was being attacked and singled out by almost all the staff and many students. The owner, Grant Price is an absolute mad man. He has no qualification to run that school other than the fact that he went to a tbs previously. In groups most of the staff cuss the students out and manipulate them to believe that they really need carlbrook's help in order to even survive in the "real World". They convince completely normal and talented kids that they "hate themselves" and make them feel they have nowhere else to turn. The emotional manipulation there is unreal. They believe that a student who has any natural spunk or spirit must first be broken by carlbrook and then built back up. If you decide to not fully comply emotionally to the program and philosophy there you are isolated from your friends and made to feel like an outcast from everyone around. they put you on 'Bans' which mean you cannot talk to a certain group of people for reasons only Carlbrook can justify. It is borderline INSANE! In my last 3 weeks there, i was placed in "suspension" which is basically a room in which you sit at a desk and stare straight ahead. You cannot look at any other studetn, talk to any one unless raising your hand or being adressed by a staff first. You have virtually NO contact with anyone other than the security staff in that room. When you do leave the room you must walk in a straight line with your head down and are forbidden to look up. I was placed in there because someone said that i was gossiping about other studetns which was completely false. It was complete injustice.. And Andy Coe... this man is the devil. He lied and told the whole school this heart-wrenching story about the near death of his daughter which was completely UNTRUE. the staff lies to the studetns in order to make them feel a certain way. Most of the Therapy was BULLSHIT!!!!! the only staff that really cared abotu the kids were the maintainance staff, teachers, cooking staff, security staff, and a VERY small number of advisors.... Parents need to think VERY VERY long and hard b4 making a drastic decision to send your child to a hell hole like this. and if you do.... there better be absolutely NO other option for them
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Wow, SC Student. Sadly, that's an all too familiar tale. It explains the extreme devotion and fanatical responses to criticisms of the school. They cannot tolerate any type of critical, rational thought. Their entire premise depends on isolation and making the victim vulnerable enough to be manipulated into believing pretty much anything. It also explains how they can try and claim that any of it is voluntary. They don't see coercion and isolation for what it really is...brainwashing.
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SC Student- I was at Carlbrook and you don't get to Carlbrook by being a normal and talented kid. You get there because you are a fuck up. why are you blaming your edcon and grant for you being there? Your parents put you there and I'm sure they put you there because you were doing really well in school and treating your familoy great. i bet you never smoked a joint or sold drugs either.
I agree Andy Coe is a nutcase, but you probably hate your advisor and Grant because they kicked your ass. Tell us what you are doing now. I bet you are still fuckin gup. Carlbrook can only do so much. the rest is up to you. I hated group too when I was there and I was always on bans , but I finally realized I needed to figure some stuff out so I could avoid the shit tht go tme there int he first place.
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I hated group too when I was there and I was always on bans , but I finally realized I needed to figure some stuff out so I could avoid the shit tht go tme there int he first place.
You didn't hate group, you are still in it.
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SC Student- I was at Carlbrook and you don't get to Carlbrook by being a normal and talented kid. You get there because you are a fuck up. why are you blaming your edcon and grant for you being there? Your parents put you there and I'm sure they put you there because you were doing really well in school and treating your familoy great. i bet you never smoked a joint or sold drugs either.
Wait, now I've heard a lot of people supporting Carlbrook claim that it's not a therapeutic school. Are you saying that it is?
I agree Andy Coe is a nutcase, but you probably hate your advisor and Grant because they kicked your ass. Tell us what you are doing now. I bet you are still fuckin gup. Carlbrook can only do so much. the rest is up to you. I hated group too when I was there and I was always on bans , but I finally realized I needed to figure some stuff out so I could avoid the shit tht go tme there int he first place.
This is precisely what I'm talking about and what the anon was describing. Convince the kid that he would be deadinsaneorinjail...how many times have we all seen that? Break the kid to the point where they actually believe that they would have died without the place. Make them absolutely dependent and fanatically devoted to the program and it's gurus. How do you know that? Most kids grow out of their idiotic behavior, yes even dangerous behavior. Most of it is part of growing up and it scares the living shit out of parents and they become desperate and vulnerable to these conmen. I hate to keep hawking this but it's just explains so much when you read the posts of those two students above and then read these (under General Information, particularly the first 3)...
http://www.ex-cult.org/ (http://www.ex-cult.org/)
Grant kicking people's ass? Care to explain that or are we to take that literally?
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I myself graduated from Carlbrook School in 2004. I was sent there against my will because of my extreme drug and alcohol use, lack of respect for my parents and the law, and I stopped going to school. At first I was resistant, but I learned to love it. Not in the sort of way that its forced upon you (although in some aspects it is).
It's entirely how you choose to look at the situation. If you choose to look at it as a negative, controlling environment, you will find any and all reasons to back up your belief. And vice versa.
The staff, while I was there, only had the students' best interests in mind. Granted the teachers could have been better, you're in the middle of Virginia, what do you expect (No offense). All the teachers were friendly and willing to help, although with the amount of highly intelligent teens that were attending while I was there, this area could have been improved.
I met a lot of great people there, staff and students alike, and have kept in touch with them since graduation. I went back out and used drugs and alcohol for a while, dealing with some unresolved issues. Eventually I made the decision that I couldn't live that way anymore. I have been sober coming up on 8 months now and I am extremely proud of this.
Carlbrook gave me the tools to live my life to the fullest. I learned so much from the workshops we went through while I was there, as well as some of the group sessions we had. While I talk to some of the staff there on occassion (Tim Brace, Jonathan Gurney, John Henson), they will never know just how much they have helped me.
I see things completely different than I did before I went to Carlbrook, and I wouldn't give that up for anything in the world. I am extremely fortunate and grateful for this opportunity, to my parents for doing everything they did, and for life in general.
If you are interested in talking with me about this, just leave a reply and I can send you an e-mail. My dad showed me this link, so I thought I would check it out and leave some of my own experiences. Take care.
-I Am Giving And Responsible-
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SC Student- I was at Carlbrook and you don't get to Carlbrook by being a normal and talented kid. You get there because you are a fuck up.
Mystical Manipulation (http://http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html#Mystical%20Manipulation)
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I have been sober coming up on 8 months now and I am extremely proud of this.
You are powerless and trust god to keep you sober, right? (Let go and let god)
Well. Let me ask you this: what if your god hates you?
What if he thinks you deserve to die?
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I am a Carlbrook survivor.
The key of Carlbrook is to make the kids think that they are reliant on the program, then give them a valued and seemingly inspirational basis on which they should attempt to live their daily lives. However, the situations and explanations given for an individual's therapy are unrealistic in such an isolated and exaggerated community like Carlbrook, and I can find very little or no real life application of whatever was pressed on me during my time at the school.
My key to getting through life? Stop thinking about it and start doing it.
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I have been sober coming up on 8 months now and I am extremely proud of this.
You are powerless and trust god to keep you sober, right? (Let go and let god)
Well. Let me ask you this: what if your god hates you?
Or what if that "God" flat out doesn't exist? I don't lean either way, but the reality is that we can not know.
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I bet you are still fuckin gup.
Why.. he must be. Without the great "savior" of Carlbrook. :roll: Worship your program! that's it.. get down on your knees and worship!
Carlbrook can only do so much. the rest is up to you. I hated group too when I was there and I was always on bans , but I finally realized I needed to figure some stuff out so I could avoid the shit tht go tme there int he first place.
Was anybody there who didn't need to be there?
Answer that.. Then answer this:
To your knowledge did Carlbrook ever reject somebody on the basis of "not needing it"?
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Nolongertroubled- send me a Private Message on this forum with your email address. My son left Carlbrook in 2004.
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Nolongertroubled- send me a Private Message on this forum with your email address. My son left Carlbrook in 2004.
YA. I can vouch for this parent. She is legit.
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I am a Carlbrook survivor.
The key of Carlbrook is to make the kids think that they are reliant on the program, then give them a valued and seemingly inspirational basis on which they should attempt to live their daily lives. However, the situations and explanations given for an individual's therapy are unrealistic in such an isolated and exaggerated community like Carlbrook, and I can find very little or no real life application of whatever was pressed on me during my time at the school.
Well said
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Integrity and trustworthiness have NOTHING to do with the program. If programs had integrity, they would not lie to parents, isolate kids, distort their stories using fear based coersion, feign legitimate therapeutic and academic accreditations, and use mindfucking techniques honed by cults, such as synanon. Don't kid yourself about trustworthy peers either. The whole system is designed to exploit, distort, and bully eachother into submission. If you don't cooperate, there is hell to pay.
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I'm not planning to get into this fight again, but Carlbrook did not lie to us (the parents). There were occasions that they didn't know what they were doing, but they didn't lie. Also, the academics weren't too bad. They weren't what our son was used to, but he got by and got enough to move on. The peers may have turned on each other while they were there, but they are amazingly close knit and in contact now that they are out.
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Here is the link (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Carlbrook).
Please comment.
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Integrity and trustworthiness have NOTHING to do with the program. If programs had integrity, they would not lie to parents, isolate kids, distort their stories using fear based coersion, feign legitimate therapeutic and academic accreditations, and use mindfucking techniques honed by cults, such as synanon. Don't kid yourself about trustworthy peers either. The whole system is designed to exploit, distort, and bully eachother into submission. If you don't cooperate, there is hell to pay.
i second this
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I'm not planning to get into this fight again, but Carlbrook did not lie to us (the parents). There were occasions that they didn't know what they were doing, but they didn't lie. Also, the academics weren't too bad. They weren't what our son was used to, but he got by and got enough to move on. The peers may have turned on each other while they were there, but they are amazingly close knit and in contact now that they are out.
Then what the fuck did you pay all that damn money for? Didn't know what they were doing? Substandard education? Why even send him then?
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Carlbrook absolutely rejects plenty of applicants for a myriad of reasons. There IS a minimum IQ.
I think most of the students would be doing at least average if Carlbrook did not exist. That said, even with an extremely controlled environment, it's undeniable that I grew in character and maturity while being there.
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Carlbrook absolutely rejects plenty of applicants for a myriad of reasons. There IS a minimum IQ.
I think most of the students would be doing at least average if Carlbrook did not exist. That said, even with an extremely controlled environment, it's undeniable that I grew in character and maturity while being there.
That in itself is telling if you take the time to think about it. If most students would be doing average without an over controlling duckfarm like Carlbrook then why the hell were they shipped there in the first place?
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not only did you take the time to think about it, you revived an ancient thread that hasn't seen any action for a whole year. I did a double-take when I popped in this forum and saw this thread on page 1 again.
IT LIIIIIVVVEESS!!!!!
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Grant kicking people's ass? Care to explain that or are we to take that literally?
These schools are guided by simple, easy to understand metaphors... dont be a literal asshole, grant never laid a finger on anybody. Negativity destroys this world and the love in it. That school saves lives and creates great memories with lasting results. We all wanted to be somewhere else, but all of us, excluding the assholes publicly bashing a wonderful place because they have "figured it out", are glad that we went there. so, live your life and make the world a better place by making someone smile with a compliment or hug, because THAT is what carlbrook is all about!
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Carlbrook School was awful. I graduated from there in 2008. Just last night, my boyfriend (who also went to Carlbrook) and I both had nightmares about it.
They were psychologically manipulative beyond belief. No, there were no gates or guard dogs, but they emotionally trapped you; they promised us that if we ran, we would be shot/captured/raped by rednecks ("Deliverance" references were made repeatedly) or that the police would get us and that our parents would get extended custody of us until we were 21.
The workshops were so messed up...we had to attend our own funerals and write our own obituaries and tell our friends that they should die (all on staff orders). We had to talk about the most disgusting and traumatic things in our lives (most involved sexual disclosures or abuse) every week. We were shouted at by staff and students about how foul, gross, unforgivable, and unwanted we were. We were "broken" down until they convinced us that we hated ourselves, even if we didn't.
Later on in my stay, I was a student support for one of the therapeutic workshops and saw the scripts (every workshop was scripted and formulaic; they had perfected the art of screwing with kids' heads) and one section actually read "Next, turn off the lights, play Track 05, whisper in their ears, and break them. Break them until they are on the floor. Once all of them are crying and/or screaming, play Track 06."
Carlbrook School was traumatic. You are brainwashed. I didn't believe in brainwashing until I got out of Carlbrook and realized that what they did to me was NOT okay, it was NOT normal. I am still dealing with the psychological conditioning to this day. My parents understand now that it was a mistake to send me there.
Grant Price is insane. He is very my-way-or-the-highway and makes no effort to actually get to know you or help you. Justin Merritt takes no part in his creation; he stands in the background and feigns ignorance as the staff mess with the kids. The advisors are incompetent and cruel. The only staff that actually are about the kids are the Securitas staff (who are often fired for becoming "too attached to the kids" -- they're fired as soon as the other staff notice that they're worried about how inhumane the place is. The Securitas are responsible for patrolling the dorms at night and working Suspension, which is where you sit in a desk and are not permitted to move or talk without express permission. You must keep your head straight and cannot look at anything besides your desk, talk to anyone, get up, etc. You can be "in suspension" for anywhere from one day to 9 MONTHS. The average is about 2 or 3 months) and some of the teachers (though the male teachers at that place definitely have inappropriate relationships with the girls -- nothing physical happens, but they develop very close friendships with the girls (who are ages 15-18) and have private meals with them and cross many boundaries in terms of talking about their sex lives and that type of thing.
Andy Coe, in my opinion, was actually really wonderful. He was one of the few adults there that I trusted (other than the English teacher and an advisor/former student named Sally Martin). However, I want to know more about how he was allegedly duplicitous, as I wonder if I was duped.
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what about dr. wiseman the psychiatrist
the kids called him The Candy Man
he perscribed pills like they were nothing
overdiagnosed everyone
made everyone a zombie
put me on lexapro, ceraquil, & adderall
i dont have add or bipolar or anything
they just like to dope you up
and make you compliant
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candyman explains everything
motive ( $ )
and
the
run of the mill whiny troubled teen kicking up dust.
end of story
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Good to hear that people are finally coming forward about this place and proving me right that this joint is nothing more than yet another bastard child of CEDU... down to the last fucking detail. Didn't change a damn thing except for the language.
They were psychologically manipulative beyond belief. No, there were no gates or guard dogs, but they emotionally trapped you; they promised us that if we ran, we would be shot/captured/raped by rednecks ("Deliverance" references were made repeatedly) or that the police would get us and that our parents would get extended custody of us until we were 21.
Oh yes, the "there are no gates, you can leave whenever you want" line.
So wonderful to see that they are still, to this day, taking advantage of that incident that happened at RMA, where a kid ran away and got raped by a trucker. Boy, were the staff wetting their pants about what a golden opportunity THAT was to put the fear of god into kids who were thinking about bailing. Nice to know they are still using that story to scare the fuck out of detainees.
However, due to the fact that I fantasize about getting raped by truckers every day, this would have hardly been a deterrent.
They get a 0 for creativity, but then again, they learned that from Mel, since he stole all of his ideas, too.
Is that NAMBLA whore Tim Brace still there?
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Tim Brace is a good guy. He put his heart into his work; we were everything to him. I don't agree with Carlbrook. I'm openly angry at many of the staff members for their detrimental and often vicious methods. I think that a lot of it was frankly cultish. But Tim Brace...I trust Tim Brace. He's a good man.
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glad he was good to you. not all students can claim the same, especially if they were good-looking young boys. Please know that I am not saying this offhandedly, either. I've had alumni talk to me about their personal experiences with him.
technically, since it didnt happen to me, its still hearsay, but I trust the people who confided in me.
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Good men should find good employment in good companies in good industries.
He his batting 1000 when it comes to working in shitpits that charge an arm and a leg for their mindfuckery.
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To anyone who believes that Carlbrook "saved" them, or that anyone who speaks out against it "didn't get it" or is "clearly still fucking up"--
In total, I attended two wilderness programs and two therapeutic boarding schools, one being Carlbrook. I was sent away initially for using marijuana, skipping school, and just generally being irresponsible. I am the type of person who learns lessons the hard way. I went through wilderness, and then arrived at Carlbrook. I was determined to give it a try, get through the program, and move on with my life. After six months, though I was only fifteen and did not know anything about what is 'appropriate' and 'inappropriate' in a therapeutic sense, I knew that something was not right. I asked to be sent anywhere else, not even home just any other program, but the school instead restricted my access to my parents and put me on a disciplinary action program. I had been raped at fourteen and was told alternately that it was my fault and that it was not my fault, and that if I did not successfully comply with the program, it would happen to me again. I was made to tell another boy who had molested his sister that I forgave him for what he had done, by way of forgiving my rapist, which I was in no way prepared to do anyways, and this boy had nothing to do with what happened to me. I know now that this is all incredibly inappropriate for someone struggling in the aftermath of sexual assault. I was informed that my drug use and behavioral issues all stemmed from "daddy issues" and convinced that I had said "daddy issues", which alienated me from my father. My father is a loving, caring man that was wrongfully blamed by Carlbrook for my problems. Carlbrook seemed to believe that all behavioral issues stemmed from some deep-seated childhood wrongdoing, and pushed/pressured teens to the point of admitting things that never happened. I watched it happen many times. Sometimes, yes, teens with behavioral issues do have serious repressed trauma, but this is NOT the standard.
I was placed on suspension for not "being on the plan", while struggling to understand what that meant, as I had not broken any actual rules, or "standards", as they were called. In suspension we were forced so sit facing forward in a separate room from 7 am until 10 pm, and we were not permitted to talk or look at anyone else. We were taken outside for an hour every day. If you raised your hand and asked to go to the bathroom or get water more than once every two hours, you were written up, and made to stay on suspension for longer. I finally made it off suspension and into good standing by becoming completely fake, as being myself did not cut it there. They were looking for a cookie-cutter kind of result, instead of kids who are really working and struggling to find out who they are and why they have done the things they do. Because I was completely fake and just going through the motions, I began breaking rules that I found stupid, like the school's system of "bans", where you cannot speak or look at certain people for various allotted reasons. I had been put on bans with all of my closest friends. I began to develop a romantic relationship with a friend who was struggling, which was NOT allowed (though an unreasonable expectation among teenagers, this is the standard of many treatment programs. While there are good reasons for it, it is unrealistic to think you can ask a teenager to ignore the opposite sex for a year and a half). We did nothing more than kiss. He was put on suspension and interrogated about any rule-breaking, and I lied my ass off to get into suspension with him. (Young love.. very stupid) After a year at Carlbrook, I was kicked out after leaving a group where I watched several people I cared about being told that they were worthless (the girls were called whores, the boys monsters and drug addicts) by both the owner and fellow students, some of them also my friends. I got up and walked out of the room, and was removed from the school and immediately send to another wilderness. My parents were told nothing about my removal from the school, just that I had not "complied with the program", and Carlbrook made it appear as though I had done something truly terrible, not just kiss someone and walk out of a group.
After my second wilderness, I attended the Oakley School. I will not pretend that it is perfect in any way, but going to Oakley really showed me how wrong Carlbrook's tactics are. At Carlbrook, they use an unrealistic setting where teens cannot make the mistakes they will most certainly make/face in the real world, incredibly aggressive therapy, inappropriate scare tactics, and students learn that the only way they will avoid being screamed at and avoid getting in trouble is to employ the same tactics that the staff use on their fellow students, to get them first and bandwagon. At first at Carlbrook, you work out of fear to save yourself, until it becomes second nature and you fail to see the pain you inflict on your fellow students. Anyone who does not fully comply, who is not afraid, is eliminated as quickly as possible. This is not to say that the students enrolled are not intelligent-- in fact, for the most part they are, and this helps the school in that students soon realize the path of least resistance and flock to it. There are five therapeutic workshops in the process-- I went through the first three and know the details and processes of the last two. They are meant to tear you down and build you back up, rendering you, essentially, as others have said, dependent on the program. I would love to believe that I could have made it through the entire program without succumbing, but from what I have seen from some of the kids who my closest friends at the school-- that is not realistic. Sure, many of them go on and continue to use and party, but there is something still something different about all of them. This is not a positive difference, and many of them still seem totally dependent on the school in a way, constantly referencing it, etc. Its as if they have been brainwashed-- this may seem like a complete exaggeration, but I don't believe it is. I successfully attended the Oakley School, made many, many mistakes, which the program allowed for, and still made it out. I now attend a tier one college with an excellent GPA, I am in a stable, loving relationship that began at Oakley (we've been together for two years), and there is no rehab in sight for me. At Carlbrook, I was told college was not an option, I was not able to figure out how to have a healthy relationship, and I left quite possibly worse than I started (as demonstrated by my drug use IMMEDIATELY following leaving the school).
I urge any parent considering sending their child to Carlbrook-- PLEASE consider other options. There are many. Make sure you choose a certified school, and choose a therapeutic boarding school over an RTC, if possible. Absolutely NOTHING positive awaits your child at Carlbrook, and you may never hear of the damage done, as many kids are too afraid to tell their parents the truth.
If you still decide to consider it, at least evaluate the program thoroughly, and understand what you are sending your child through (you should do this for any program) Here is the most accurate account of the workshops, etc, that I have found:
http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/CarlBrook.htm (http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/CarlBrook.htm)
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Can you tell us anything first hand about any of your advisors you had while there? A few are already listed on this sight... did you know any of them?
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Can you tell us anything first hand about any of your advisors you had while there? A few are already listed on this sight... did you know any of them?
Who do you want to know about? Lisa, Clark, and Sally left before my graduation last week, but I can tell you anything you want to know about the advisers that are still there.
Personally, the only advisers that I think had any idea what they were doing or any compassion or understanding for the kids were Sally, Kalyn, and Alicia. Alicia was fired, we don't know why, probably because they had to blame someone for two kids that had sex in the Manor House bathroom (she was the boy's adviser). Sally quit. Kalyn is still there and the only adviser there I have any respect for. The rest were either A) well-intentioned but had no idea what they were doing and blindly followed the lead of the sadistic, stupid, passive-aggressive other advisers or B) the unintelligent jerks that seemingly got off on dominating the kids and power-tripping. Off the top of my head, some group A people are Brynn, Lisa, and Clark and some group B people are Mindi, Trevor, Angela, John (Price not Gurney - Gurney is one of the VERY FEW good guys like Kalyn), etc.
Carlbrook is the best option out of the therapeutic boarding schools, but that's kind of like saying "oh out of Charles Manson, Brutus, and Osama Bin Laden, Brutus really seemed like the nicest." If your kid is crazy out of control (and I mean an ACTIVE DANGER TO HIMSELF/HERSELF OR OTHERS or doing heroin or something) and you have run out of options and your home is a toxic environment, Carlbrook is going to be your best bet, but only because YOU HAVE NO OTHER OPTIONS. RTCs an TBSs looooooove to make you THINK you have no other options and capitalize on the desperation of the parents, but Carlbrook should only be a LAST RESORT. Don't send your kid away because he's smoking pot and has a bad attitude. If he's depressed, TALK TO HIM. Reach out. Don't just dial an ed consultant. This industry is just that - an INDUSTRY. Carlbrook is a BUSINESS. Of COURSE they're going to convince you that you need their SERVICES. That's just good business management. BE A SMART CONSUMER. Don't buy something that you not only DO NOT NEED but will HURT YOUR CHILD.
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(and I mean an ACTIVE DANGER TO HIMSELF/HERSELF OR OTHERS or doing heroin or something) and you have run out of options and your home is a toxic environment, Carlbrook is going to be your best bet,
Keeping in mind the percentage of CEDU/clone "survivors" who have died of heroin overdoses and suicides.. mm. not sure about that.
Wish someone would gather some numbers on that, btw. I still maintain some sort of census needs to happen.
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Fall-out frequently occurs a couple of years after the trauma, when no one's watching anymore.
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kudos to the poster about Carlbrook.
It's a good description of the insidious nature of coercive therapy how they dick with the developing mind and individual.
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I have looking at this forum for many months now. I have read many comments of haters and lovers of Carlbrook. I chose to leave Carlbrook as soon as I could, shortly after turning 18. I would say it helped me mainly in one thing, it helped me make friends. I didn't have any friends at home and making friends at Carlbrook is what turned me around. A lot of people are talking about whether people needed to be there, stating sarcastically that you were doing well in school, had good relationships with your family, and never touched drugs or alcohol. Actually, I fit all the criteria above. I was not sent away for substance abuse, harming myself physically, or any other extreme things. As I was told, I was sent away for being depressed after I had recently lost both my parents. I did not need any of the limitations of Carlbrook. When I first came home, I was not able to say that Carlbrook attempted to brainwash me, but I easily was able to say they tried to manipulate me. I was constantly threatened with suspension. After my first term at Carlbrook, I accumulated the highest GPA in the school. I was immediately ridiculed for this saying that since I had done so well, I obviously wasn't doing my therapeutic work and was using it as a distraction. This came from other students, my advisor, other staff, and even administrators! Well I'm sorry, but I was told that Carlbrook was not categorized as a Therapeutic Boarding School, but as Tim Brace said many a times, it is listed under a college-preparatory boarding school. I have always done well in school and according to Carlbrook's prerequisites, having a high GPA is mandatory. If it is mandatory to even be accepted into Carlbrook, then accumulating, per say a 4.0 every term would be a piece of cake. But instead, people don't pride themselves on accumulating a GPA that prestigious schools would accept, but rather that they are not failing. Obviously, if someone has accumulated a high GPA in their stay there simply because Carlbrook's academics do not demand an adequate rigor, then they must not be doing something right and hence forth, that person shall be given a "game" in which they run their day, "business mode." In groups, people would constantly tell me how sad I should be that both my parents have passed, with my mother passing only a few months before I was sent away. They made me create anxiety when there was none existing. I had social anxieties (remember, no friends) not anxiety that my life would never get better. My advisor put me on an action plan around my amicitia workshop. This actually helped me the most. Through the course of this seven week action plan, I was able to realize that the manipulated crap that was forced into my head was so ridiculous. Shortly after my action plan, I told my advisor that I didn't think I needed to be at Carlbrook anymore and that I would do not just fine at home, but exceptional. She immediately engaged on the attack. She brought up that by not going through animus, I would not have any ambition. Was she joking? I was a good kid at home and never did anything to harm myself or harm those I care about. Everything I did was though through and my decisions were based on valid logic. I actually have a hatred for impulsivity and making decisions on emotions alone. It is so ignorant and so blind sided stupid that anyone that does do it obviously has a lot of issues. I don't care if you were raped, did drugs, had significant losses in your life, or had any other discretional experiences, using your emotions to make choices for you will inevitably harm yourself and harm other people. However, at Carlbrook, this was not only accepted, but encouraged. During a team building group, I was attacked by both the advisors and many of the students for mentioning someone being raped. The context was in a hypothetical exercise where we had to come up with reasons that a woman was a young single woman with a kid who was pretty old. I mentioned how she could have been raped and had the kid. This girl stood up during the group and literally screamed in my face how it was completely disrespectful. I did not find anything wrong with what I had said and still do not. But this girl was crazy! She told people that she wanted 9 children! One that is ridiculous! Two, she was 16 at the time! She told people that she wanted to have her first kid by the time she was 20. She could barely take care of herself and the thought of some hormonal teenager bringing up kids of her own was disgusting. I thought originally that these were some of the problems that she entered Carlbrook with. But I was wrong; these were the ideas that she had after starting Carlbrook. Carlbrook continuously uses parenthood as a therapeutic tool. During animus returns, people are always screaming how they want to be a father, or they want to be a mother, and they want to have this many kids and they’re going to treat them well. What is this place teaching them! The average age at Carlbrook is 16 and they’re preparing them for parenthood! They shouldn’t be ready to have kids at 16 unless this is Shakespearean times and even then, having a 12 year old Juliet is still pretty weird! You don’t need to be ready to be a parent. I don’t know anyone who said that they were completely ready to have kids when they eventually had their first born. You learn through time and experience, not by screaming on some stairs how you want 12 kids so they can live their life through you and accomplish all the things that you couldn’t do because you were a raging cocaine addict and no one would hire you.
Suspension was one of the most disgusting things I have ever witnessed. It reminded me of wrongly convicted prisoners. Obviously Carlbrook didn’t physically touch anyone unless a student became physical, and even when I was there, I never witnessed that. The only physical thing that Carlbrook does is gives hugs, but that could get annoying after awhile. Instead, Carlbrook played the mental battle. Similar to the wilderness program, they start you off with nothing. By doing certain things and people obviously seeing these things, you get rewards. You get tea and hot chocolate when you become a DHIT (dorm head in training), coffee when you become a dorm head, bottom bunk when you become a DHIT, an extra student store (candy and soda) by joining certain committees, etc. I only have three problems with this form of rewarding manipulation. First, some of these things shouldn’t be a reward. I mean come on, you have to work to have tea? That is ridiculous. Second, Carlbrook attacked external validation constantly. However, obviously it works different if Carlbrook is the one giving the validation in the form of hot drinks and candy. As long you play into Carlbrook’s hands, and then you will be rewarded. But, if you have retained your individuality and your own thought process, you will not see these rewards and you will watch as your friends move up in hierarchy while you stay down, because you are doing things poorly. The final reason is because you don’t get these positions for doing the best, but you get them because people like you and people see you doing it. For example, during my stay at Carlbrook, I wrote 5 proposals and even when I was about to go into upper school, I still had not become a DHIT. Did I deserve these positions, of course I did. Did I put in the work? Of course. Why didn’t I get the positions? Because other people did things with the intention of getting these positions while I just did it because I felt like it was the right thing to do. For example, in keeping a “safe” dorm, I would talk to my dorm mates in my dorm all the time casually. I kept a safe dorm. But other people would purposely go into the hall and have a formal appointment and make sure people saw them. That is the difference. I was not concerned with people seeing me, I was concerned with helping my roommate who was having a hard time. But because I did this, people saw nothing. Another example would be upper school classmen trying to get on the DCOM (Disciplinary Committee). With that committee, you are selected, you do not write a proposal. Every person on the campus “holds people in standard,” but with them, they will make sure they get the entire room’s attention so everyone knows that they are doing this. For instance, I was in math class and a kid didn’t wear a belt that day. He was already on DCOM but just wanted to show people that he could do things. He stood up in the middle of class, disrupted the teacher, and told the kid to stand up. He asked him why he wasn’t wearing a belt and he said he forgot to put one on in the morning. The DCOM member then told him that “as a consequence for taking away from the class,” that he erase the white board. Is he freaking serious!!! I thought that was a sarcastic joke when I saw this, after only being there for a few weeks. Obviously, from any other person who has not yet been brainwashed by Carlbrook, this person disrupted the class to “hold someone in standard” because they were taking away from the class by not wearing a belt. Then, individually, people in the class thanked him for holding him in standard saying that he was brave for doing that. They were just glad that class could be disrupted and for the few minutes that this whole situation took, they didn’t have to learn anything (going back to my point earlier of people who lacked ambition-most of these people were upper school classmen who have been there for over a year. They relied on Carlbrook’s way of living and this means that school is not a priority, as long as you attend, you are fine. In fact, as I mentioned earlier, my first full term there where I got the highest GPA in the school, a few other people who were young in the school, actually younger than me got on Dean’s List (having a 3.75-4.0). A few upper schoolers were proud if they got honor roll (3.5-3.74). But the majority were surprisingly ecstatic if they pulled off a 3.0.
I went on a little tangent but there is a lot of energy towards this subject. As I was saying earlier, suspension was the controlling force at Carlbrook. For those who are reading that may not know what suspension is, I will try my best to describe it. Suspension is referred to one’s suspension stay while sometimes also referred to the suspension room in the downstairs commons building. The suspension room to the eyes of an outsider looks like a classroom with desks, a small television set in the front, and a teacher’s desk in the back facing away from the three double doors which line the side of the classroom. The girls bathroom is also located in the suspension room and is shared by suspension students (but they must knock first). When you are in suspension, you are on bans with the entire school except for appointments and if you are in ISS (In School Suspension) on other bans that are determined by your advisor. The most common bans for people in suspension is lower school bans. If you are in ISS, you must return to the suspension room for lunch during the school day and you are also on bans with action planners and other suspension students. As for being in the room, 7am-10pm for out of school suspension students (minus school time for ISS students), you can only ask four types of questions a day. 1. Can I use the bathroom? 2. Can I get a drink of water? 3. Can I access my backpack? 4. An emergency health question. All other questions must be written on a piece of paper which are collected during meal times. In addition, if you use the four questions frequently (like more than once every two hours), you are written up and it is used against you to keep you in there longer. Also, every day you are late to the suspension line in the morning, you must stay in there another day. On Saturday and Sunday, you see a movie in the suspension room (same one each day), usually one that is self-motivating. For example, I saw Finding Forrester like 4 times when I was in there. It was nice to have something to kill time. When suspension students travel together, they travel in a single filed line and are not permitted to look up or look at anyone. They are given an hour to exercise on Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, and Sunday. They are also permitted to have a 45 minute appointment with someone once a day during the school week and twice a day on the weekend. This room is a prison without bars. It locks you out of just another prison, the school. The school does not have fences or walls. The only thing that keeps you there is knowing that if you leave before you are 18, “then you will go back to the woods.” Actually, the school has no legal right to send you back to the woods without the parental consent. But even if the parents tell them that under no circumstance are they to be sent back to the woods, the school will still threaten the student with the woods as a form of manipulation.
All I have to say to anyone who any parents who are considering sending their child to Carlbrook is to understand the ramifications of that decision. You are probably thinking that you are willing to put your child in such a place to help them and it is probably not as bad as everyone on this forum and a multitude of other websites make it out to be, but I assure you, it is! Anyone who says otherwise has not yet realized that they have been brainwashed. If you choose to look at the school or if you have done so already, you will be impressed by the seemingly beautiful campus and facilities. Don’t trust it. There is a reason why Carlbrook is so expensive. Most of their money goes to pay for the cover up of this brainwashing facility. They say that they’re a new school which may explain why kids are forced to live in trailers while they are there, but seriously, it takes less than seven kids enrollment to add up to a million dollars. There is a reason why Carlbrook is under Troubled Teen Industry, because that is exactly what it is, an industry. You will talk to Tim Brace and other administrators at Carlbrook and they will tell you all these good things about Carlbrook along with other lies. They will attempt to manipulate you because they believe you are not aware of what really goes on there. That is why I am writing this, to give people a fair chance before they make a decision based on ignorance. Please listen to me before you make the wrong choice!
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Personally, the only advisers that I think had any idea what they were doing or any compassion or understanding for the kids were Sally, Kalyn, and Alicia. Alicia was fired, we don't know why, probably because they had to blame someone for two kids that had sex in the Manor House bathroom (she was the boy's adviser). Sally quit. Kalyn is still there and the only adviser there I have any respect for. The rest were either A) well-intentioned but had no idea what they were doing and blindly followed the lead of the sadistic, stupid, passive-aggressive other advisers or B) the unintelligent jerks that seemingly got off on dominating the kids and power-tripping. Off the top of my head, some group A people are Brynn, Lisa, and Clark and some group B people are Mindi, Trevor, Angela, John (Price not Gurney - Gurney is one of the VERY FEW good guys like Kalyn), etc.
I think John Price is quite good.
Mindy is definitely a bully.
I didn't like Alicia at all and was glad to see her go.
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I chose to leave Carlbrook as soon as I could, shortly after turning 18...
...Please listen to me before you make the wrong choice!
How long were you there?
There is no doubt that CB is not right for everyone.
I also have no doubt that you should not have been there -- or any other alternative school for that matter. Clearly that's going to color your feelings about the school.
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You graduated last week, I wonder if you know my son? What can you tell me about Brandy and Greta, (Advisors) did you know them? Do all the kids who attend Carlbrook go through ISS? Is this part of the mind control game that they like to play? My son has been in ISS for 4 weeks now for punching a bed post because he didn't agree with being put on an extra work crew - a wash basin was wet. When I talked to him last he cried for most of the 20 minutes. I was told that I couldn't talk to him without his advisor being on the phone.
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You graduated last week, I wonder if you know my son? What can you tell me about Brandy and Greta, (Advisors) did you know them? Do all the kids who attend Carlbrook go through ISS? Is this part of the mind control game that they like to play? My son has been in ISS for 4 weeks now for punching a bed post because he didn't agree with being put on an extra work crew - a wash basin was wet. When I talked to him last he cried for most of the 20 minutes. I was told that I couldn't talk to him without his advisor being on the phone.
So why don't you saddle up and get your ass to CB and PULL YOUR KID?? Someone's got to be the grownup here, lady.
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I chose to leave Carlbrook as soon as I could, shortly after turning 18...
...Please listen to me before you make the wrong choice!
How long were you there?
There is no doubt that CB is not right for everyone.
I also have no doubt that you should not have been there -- or any other alternative school for that matter. Clearly that's going to color your feelings about the school.
I am the guest who posted that long message on june 12th about my experience at CB. I was there for almost 8 months when I finally left. People acutally never allowed me to say that it wasnt right for me, but rather forced me to believe that I was at the same level as everyone else. People in my peer group actually complained saying that they couldn't "rail" me as easily as other people because I didn't do anything wrong when I was at home, but the advisors said they couldn't treat me differently just because I never did drugs or had self harm thoughts. As many other people have mentioned, CB will bring you down so that they can bring you back up with carlbrook's ideals, guided by the code of standards. I knew I had ambition and I knew there was nothing wrong with me, but I didn't want people to think that. I acted like the perfect CB rolemodel. I never got crews and I would talk new people out of leaving. I actually talked this girl out of leaving two days before I booked it.
Does anyone else feel similar to this? Right after you leave CB, you feel connected to it and have a hard time admitting that you were brainwashed or even manipulated? But the more time you spend in the free world, with freedom of thought not forbidden, you realize that CB was a bunch of liars, hypocrits, and manipulators. I've come to the place where I am resentful of its values and the way it conducts things. If I could, I would try to close the school down so no other person would have to face what I had to.
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I chose to leave Carlbrook as soon as I could, shortly after turning 18...
...Please listen to me before you make the wrong choice!
How long were you there?
There is no doubt that CB is not right for everyone.
I also have no doubt that you should not have been there -- or any other alternative school for that matter. Clearly that's going to color your feelings about the school.
I am the guest who posted that long message on june 12th about my experience at CB. I was there for almost 8 months when I finally left. People acutally never allowed me to say that it wasnt right for me, but rather forced me to believe that I was at the same level as everyone else. People in my peer group actually complained saying that they couldn't "rail" me as easily as other people because I didn't do anything wrong when I was at home, but the advisors said they couldn't treat me differently just because I never did drugs or had self harm thoughts. As many other people have mentioned, CB will bring you down so that they can bring you back up with carlbrook's ideals, guided by the code of standards. I knew I had ambition and I knew there was nothing wrong with me, but I didn't want people to think that. I acted like the perfect CB rolemodel. I never got crews and I would talk new people out of leaving. I actually talked this girl out of leaving two days before I booked it.
Does anyone else feel similar to this? Right after you leave CB, you feel connected to it and have a hard time admitting that you were brainwashed or even manipulated? But the more time you spend in the free world, with freedom of thought not forbidden, you realize that CB was a bunch of liars, hypocrits, and manipulators. I've come to the place where I am resentful of its values and the way it conducts things. If I could, I would try to close the school down so no other person would have to face what I had to.
You can. You can sue this place out of existence. Since the police won't defend you, you have to defend yourself, civilly.
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Mr. Paperclip- When were you at CB?
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Mr. Paperclip- When were you at CB?
I don't really feel comfortable giving that information away on the internet, especially because I saw this forum as anonymous. I hope you can understand that. My carlbrook experience was long, emotionally crippling, and unneccesary. Even my guardian who originally sent me there agreed how that most things there were not needed in my case. I had never done drugs or drank alcohol before I was there, but when I was there, and I was forced to listen to peoples' stories in groups, I questioned whether I was missing out on something. It sounds ridiculous that a good kid is forced into treatment and comes out questioning his original good morals, but that is what places like carlbrook do. They force you to abandon your guidelines whether they are good or bad, and attach yourself to theirs. If it isn't the carlbrook way, then it is the wrong way.
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I understand. My son was at Carlbrook and I just wondered if you crossed paths with him. You can send me a private message if you want.
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Probably not a good idea.
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Mr. Paperclip- When were you at CB?
Since he knows Brynn (who has been there about 9 months) and that Alicia was fired (by last November) I think you can do the math.
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This is not to say that the students enrolled are not intelligent-- in fact, for the most part they are, and this helps the school in that students soon realize the path of least resistance and flock to it.
I was at Carlbrook from 10/03-05/05 and I found this site just looking up things about cbrook one day and I saw this quote from may 2009 and it is one of the best statements about carlbrook I have seen....
I also constantly have dreams/nightmares about being back at carlbrook or being sent away again by my parents...
When I was there I constantly disliked the school and its program and what it was trying to do to all the kids there. Towards the end of my stay I even got in trouble with my advisors for saying that I did not want to be like the Carlbrook sellouts who were brainwashed by this place and I got put on bans with everyone in the school except for the people I said were those sellouts. I was constantly told in group and the workshops that I hated myself and thought all sorts of crazy shit when I didnt....
I can also say that I always thought it was creepy and weird how they tried to get all the students to hug each other and "smush" and stuff like that, I dont think parents knew their kids were going to be smushing with 50 year old men when they enrolled them.
And Grant Price is the biggest hypocrit there, and has no room to be running a school for "troubled youth" when he is just a former student and still hasnt figured his own shit out. WHile I was there Grant would blast me and many other in group and claim a whole bunch of stuff and come to find out after I graduated that while I was there he got a dui and had to be restrained by the police and was having an affair with someone who worked there.
I was always on bans with my good friends there for a number of false and stupid reasons and just did what I could to make it through the place. I unfortunately did not turn 18 when I was there and had to endure the whole stay of 18 months. I found the whole program to be rediculous.
And having read many things about how this is an offspring of CEDU and the other schools, I can see the similarities and the mind control or behvior modifications that they try to instill and force upon the kids there. Issues were forced upon me in group and workshops and I was put on programs and giving absurd writing assignments that I just had to figure out what the advisor wanted me to write.
I have not really kept much in contact with how the school is now or what they do now, i graduated over 4 years ago. I have many long talks/arguments with my mom still about me being sent there and she keeps in contact with moms who had kids in my peer class there and many of them agree that carlbrook did not really help their kids or prepare them. Carlbrook is way too much of a controlled environment and could never prepare the kids there for experiences they will face in the real life. I just found it very hypocritical and contradicting and I hated the way the older kids who had sold out to the system called out other kids and exerted this fake authority that the school gave them to further gain their trust. It was a system of manipulation through obidience of their rules.
It seems to me parents are given half-truths about the school during their visits and in talks beforing enrolling.. I do not think any parents realized what their kids would go through. I have seen many of the posts from people who have been to Carlbrook, some when I was there, and are happy and grateful to have been there and can only find good things to say about it. The different reactions and experiences of kids there are polar opposites- either they loved it and are grateful for it or they hated it and felt like they were trying to be brainwashed or controlled. I think that if you got a lot out of it and are happy with yourt experience, then thats great but I think many people were dissatisfied, to put it lightly, with their time there.
To parents who are thinking of sending their kids away: Think about being woken up by two huge, strange dudes at 4 in the morning and being taken to the airport with no idea of where you are going. Then all of a sudden you are in the woods being stripped searched and then sent out into the woods for an X amount of weeks before you are shipped off to this boarding school for 15-20 more months. Limited contact with parents and I couldnt ever talk to my friends or send them letters because my advisor would not let me. They train the parents with what to say, telling them that their kid will just try to manipulate their way out of the school and that everyone deserves to be there. They always made us feel like we had to be there or else we would end up dead or even more fucked up than we already were.
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In addition to my previous post, let me make somethings clear. The lessons they teach about love and how that is what is most important in the world and how much power love has, those lessons are very powerful and true. Love really is the missing thing that this world needs to come together. I also found "there is only now" and "friends are the family you get to choose" to be great tools for life and something i did find relevant. But the thing about Carlbrook is those great messages are lost among the bullshit that they spit to you in groups and other settings and the stupid control they try to hold over all the kids there and the unnecessary humiliation and extremes that they go to.
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So this 'school' is designed to model exactly what for the kids? How to get drunk and drive? Or philander? Or both?? Typical shit from these holier-than-thou, power-tripping assholes. I'd like to get Grant Price in the ring for just one 3 minute round. I'd make him sorry for everything he's ever done in the first 30 seconds and I'd take my time for the rest of the round just battering this idiot until his head is about to come off. Let me know when you're ready, Grant. I'm ready right now.
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Godfather- My kid was there when you were as was his good friend, both of whom were at our house the other night talking at length about CB. While they agree that Grant is an asshole, both think he's extremely smart. Their memories are not all bad. For some reason the friendships that are formed at CB are very strong and lasting. Both of these guys are doing very well and appear to not have been affected in the same way by CB as the previous posters. They are still in touch with Gurney and Somers.
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Did your son witness physical abuse, sexual abuse or emotional abuse? Please be honest.
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Jonah,
Really did you go to Carlbrook????? My guess is NO!
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hey everyone again.
I just wanted to put this comment on here for advice for parents. If your child is there right now over the summer, pull them now! If you do it now, then their academics will not be messed up for next year. However, make sure that they finish the rest of the term because if someone doesn't finish the term, they won't get the credit. This term that they are in right now ends in mid-August, I believe around August 12th, 2009. Don't tell the advisor that you are doing this because they will take it out on your son or daughter, trust me! In addition, if you ask your child whether they want to leave and they respond saying no, please understand these conditions before assuming something. 1. Phone calls are monitored so saying you want to leave will easily have you thrown into suspension. 2. If you manage to ask your child on a visit, most students are too intimidated to break any rules which would be saying that you want to go home. 3. Just like their advisor probably told you to be careful with your son or daughter so they won't manipulate you, Carlbrook in the meantime has spent their time meanipulating your child. For example, I was almost positive I wanted to stay until a week before I left because I "thought" I needed it to survive. In addition, the people at Carlbrook are very conditional people and will easily go behind your back if you don't watch them. Do not trust them. In this process, you will most likely have to deal with Gillan. Don't trust him.
If you are still not sure whether your child needs to be there or not, I will tell you this. No one needs to be in an environment such as Carlbrook for as long as they designed stay. In fact, other programs such as residential treatment centers (rtc's) which actually supposed to be a step up usually never keeps a person longer than a year. What your child needs is to be home with those that love and care about him/her. If they have been at carlbrook for longer than a month, then they probably assume that they probably have been manipulated to think that their family hates them, will abandon them if they decide not to stay at carlbrook, and will cease all communications with them. If any of those apply to your situation, please consider changing your rationale. Parents need to always be there for their child, showing them love, not using child laws to subdue their child to months and months of ardous mental torture by these disgusting institutions.
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JUST BECAUSE ONE PERSON HAD ONE BAD EXPERIENCE AT THIS GREAT PLACE DOESNT MEAN THAT IT IS A HELL HOLE AS PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED. THIS IS BY FAR THE GREATEST EXPERIENCE I HAVE HAD IN MY LIFE AND IF YOUR CHILD NEEDS HELP THEN YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT TO DEPRIVE THEM OF THIS. IT WILL SAVE PEOPLE'S LIVES. I HAVE WITNESSED IT. I HAVE MY BEST AND MOST SUPPORTIVE FRIENDS FROM THIS PLACE.
IN ADDITION YOU HAVE TO BE A FUCKING GENIUS TO ATTEND. INTELLIGENCE AVERAGE AT CARLBROOK IS THROUGH THE FUCKING ROOF. ALSO IF IT IS SUCH A HELL HOLE THEN WHY DID 80 MY 18 YEAR OLD OR OLDER FRIENDS NOT WALK AWAY WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE?
FUCK ALL OF YOU FOR INSULTING THE PEOPLE WHO CARE THE MOST ABOUT THIS WORLD AND THE PEOPLE IN IT.
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JUST BECAUSE ONE PERSON HAD ONE BAD EXPERIENCE AT THIS GREAT PLACE DOESNT MEAN THAT IT IS A HELL HOLE AS PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED. THIS IS BY FAR THE GREATEST EXPERIENCE I HAVE HAD IN MY LIFE AND IF YOUR CHILD NEEDS HELP THEN YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT TO DEPRIVE THEM OF THIS. IT WILL SAVE PEOPLE'S LIVES. I HAVE WITNESSED IT. I HAVE MY BEST AND MOST SUPPORTIVE FRIENDS FROM THIS PLACE.
Well, bully for you. Let's see how you feel about it after being out in the real world for a bit. It seems to have done very little about "saving" some other people's lives, quite the opposite, in fact.
IN ADDITION YOU HAVE TO BE A FUCKING GENIUS TO ATTEND. INTELLIGENCE AVERAGE AT CARLBROOK IS THROUGH THE FUCKING ROOF. ALSO IF IT IS SUCH A HELL HOLE THEN WHY DID 80 MY 18 YEAR OLD OR OLDER FRIENDS NOT WALK AWAY WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE?
Don't mean to insult you here, but your level of intelligence does not threaten me in the least bit. And intelligence, btw, doesn't necessarily inoculate one against brainwashing, as you should know...
FUCK ALL OF YOU FOR INSULTING THE PEOPLE WHO CARE THE MOST ABOUT THIS WORLD AND THE PEOPLE IN IT.
Just how would you know that? That they "care the most about this world and the people in it?" What gives you the right or ability to even make that judgment?
Thanks, but if you are an example of a successful Carlton graduate, I think I'd take my chances just about anywhere else if I could do it all again.
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JUST BECAUSE ONE PERSON HAD ONE BAD EXPERIENCE AT THIS GREAT PLACE DOESNT MEAN THAT IT IS A HELL HOLE AS PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED. THIS IS BY FAR THE GREATEST EXPERIENCE I HAVE HAD IN MY LIFE AND IF YOUR CHILD NEEDS HELP THEN YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT TO DEPRIVE THEM OF THIS. IT WILL SAVE PEOPLE'S LIVES. I HAVE WITNESSED IT. I HAVE MY BEST AND MOST SUPPORTIVE FRIENDS FROM THIS PLACE.
IN ADDITION YOU HAVE TO BE A FUCKING GENIUS TO ATTEND. INTELLIGENCE AVERAGE AT CARLBROOK IS THROUGH THE FUCKING ROOF. ALSO IF IT IS SUCH A HELL HOLE THEN WHY DID 80 MY 18 YEAR OLD OR OLDER FRIENDS NOT WALK AWAY WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE?
FUCK ALL OF YOU FOR INSULTING THE PEOPLE WHO CARE THE MOST ABOUT THIS WORLD AND THE PEOPLE IN IT.
Still looking for Gia?
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Thank you so much. When I heard this person's response, I began to worry because it is obvious that this person has either recently graduated from carlbrook, is a parent pretending to be a child, or even a carlbrook employee pretending to be a child. The person's unstable state of mind is further proved as they write entirely in capital lettters, possibly to indicate anger towards this forum. Well, I must inform you that what we are doing is completely protected under freedom of speech and we have just as much the right to discuss the facts about carlbrook than you do to spread superficial lies about it. In addition, if you did need help, then I am glad that you received what you needed. However, you must understand that this type of intervention is not only unsuccessfuly in most cases, but actually aggrevates one's mental problems.Therefore, instead of calling us "a fucking idiot," why don't you apply this feedback that we are giving to you just like carlbrook taught you to. But I forgot, why would you believe me because i am not your advisor, in student life, or on the board?
JUST BECAUSE ONE PERSON HAD ONE BAD EXPERIENCE AT THIS GREAT PLACE DOESNT MEAN THAT IT IS A HELL HOLE AS PREVIOUSLY DESCRIBED. THIS IS BY FAR THE GREATEST EXPERIENCE I HAVE HAD IN MY LIFE AND IF YOUR CHILD NEEDS HELP THEN YOU ARE A FUCKING IDIOT TO DEPRIVE THEM OF THIS. IT WILL SAVE PEOPLE'S LIVES. I HAVE WITNESSED IT. I HAVE MY BEST AND MOST SUPPORTIVE FRIENDS FROM THIS PLACE.
Well, bully for you. Let's see how you feel about it after being out in the real world for a bit. It seems to have done very little about "saving" some other people's lives, quite the opposite, in fact.
IN ADDITION YOU HAVE TO BE A FUCKING GENIUS TO ATTEND. INTELLIGENCE AVERAGE AT CARLBROOK IS THROUGH THE FUCKING ROOF. ALSO IF IT IS SUCH A HELL HOLE THEN WHY DID 80 MY 18 YEAR OLD OR OLDER FRIENDS NOT WALK AWAY WHEN THEY HAD THE CHANCE?
Don't mean to insult you here, but your level of intelligence does not threaten me in the least bit. And intelligence, btw, doesn't necessarily inoculate one against brainwashing, as you should know...
FUCK ALL OF YOU FOR INSULTING THE PEOPLE WHO CARE THE MOST ABOUT THIS WORLD AND THE PEOPLE IN IT.
Just how would you know that? That they "care the most about this world and the people in it?" What gives you the right or ability to even make that judgment?
Thanks, but if you are an example of a successful Carlton graduate, I think I'd take my chances just about anywhere else if I could do it all again.
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i am not a staff or parent posing as a student. my name is Casey Greg Marvins and you can feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] if you actually want to talk about the truth about Carlbrook School. i have spent time in the real world and it did save my life. i can say that for certain. i do not appreciate this forum, even though you are protected under the right of free speech, so am i. if you hate the place so much, then keep it to yourself and let other people decide whether they like it or not, and if it helps them or not. i am not mentally unstable, and i will admit that i overreacted.
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i...overreacted.
Mr. Paperclip
When you said, "talk about the truth about Carlbrook School," are you implying that the information we have provided is not valid? Perhaps you didn't read my posts carefully because I can ensure you that everything I have stated at least is factual information. In addition, I have taken the time to list the many dislikes of Carlbrook and I resent how you believe that you can denounce and nullify my arguments based upon your own opinion alone. I am not disagreeing that you did not better yourself while residing at Carlbrook, but I am arguing that your experience does not match many others. In addition, I doubt it was Carlbrook that helped you with your problems but probably the fulfillment of the desperation you felt, sometimes caused by Carlbrook itself. In many cases, people who attend such programs will sway to another outlook on life and another way to conduct themselves. For example, shy people will become aggressive and outspoken people will become scared to speak. I was shy at first when I attended Carlbrook but eventually shared my opinions. I was treated like a criminal and barred from the rest of the community, placed in suspension and action plans too, only because my opinions did not match the Carlbrook ideology. As they presented it to me in my amicitia, someone was left out of the circle. But actually, it was the circle that was being blind sighted by the manipulation of direction itself. The person outside the circle had escaped the manipulation and was urging others to see the truth. But they were too caught up in this illusion. They wanted to prosper in the Carlbrook community, but failed to see the bigger picture of life itself. These people in the circle would then walk side by side in a fake happiness to be presented to the rest of the community as being reborn. They were no longer contaminated and were now functioning students of the community. I was the kid left outside the circle. And even though I agreed to let them bring me back in, I only did it to avoid further torment of suspension and undeserved punishment. I still have nightmares of Carlbrook almost every night. Even though I finally left the awful place, it still haunts me. That is why I try to regurgitate my experience. You may see it as manipulation on my part Mr. Marvins, but I speak from my heart. Carlbrook has manipulated everyone, even you, whether you are willing to admit it or not. Why should they be the only ones that get to speak on the matter? Why should opposition be ignored? But of course, we must not challenge Carlbrook.
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i am not a staff or parent posing as a student. my name is Casey Greg Marvins and you can feel free to e-mail me at [email protected] if you actually want to talk about the truth about Carlbrook School.
It's very clear that you don't want to talk about the truth that includes a perspective other than your own. Enough of Who you are is apparent in the one sided conversation you're proposing.
i have spent time in the real world and it did save my life.
It sounds as if you’ve used the subjective term real world to describe a place you’d rather not visit again.
i can say that for certain. i do not appreciate this forum, even though you are protected under the right of free speech, so am i.
Yeah we the people… It’s nice to have the constitutional rights out here in the real world that weren’t allowed in the program.
if you hate the place so much, then keep it to yourself and let other people decide whether they like it or not, and if it helps them or not.
Other people have decided they don’t like the abuses they received from Carlbrook and they’re not going to "keep it to themselves" because they’re free now.
i am not mentally unstable,and i will admit that i overreacted.
It’s always very reassuring when someone announces they are mentally stable
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Carlbrook was great, it saved my life!!
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Carlbrook was great, it saved my life!!
Sure it did
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Carlbrook was great, it saved my life!!
shouldnt you be slumming around the seed forums, stack?
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So this 'school' is designed to model exactly what for the kids? How to get drunk and drive? Or philander? Or both?? Typical shit from these holier-than-thou, power-tripping assholes. I'd like to get Grant Price in the ring for just one 3 minute round. I'd make him sorry for everything he's ever done in the first 30 seconds and I'd take my time for the rest of the round just battering this idiot until his head is about to come off. Let me know when you're ready, Grant. I'm ready right now.
I am so sorry you have been hurt by him.
'
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I attended Carlbrook and can speak from my own experience... It was undeniably manipulative, and I feel truly sorry for individuals who do not see it for what it is. I agree that some students really do turn things around for themselves during their stay at Carlbrook, however, I feel sorry that students see this as the school doing it for them. I have often heard people say "Carlbrook saved my life".. how utterly disgusting. If people want to change- they will, if they don't-they won't... regardless of whether or not they are at Carlbrook. And there is constantly this hype amongst the community at Carlbrook about the support that is provided at the school. Is it supportive? Yes- I had many friends who made the place more emotionally "safe" (there you go for all of you who like the Carlbrook terminology) but I believe that those relationships can be created anywhere if there is a desire to do so. I believe that the staff is insincere. There are a million things I could say... but really the most important thing I want to get across is that Carlbrook can do my harm than help- and that if someone wants to help themselves they will. I am still recovering from my experience there. If you are considering sending your child there I would love to talk with you before you make a final decision.
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We are considering enrolling a child at Carlbrook. I would love to hear from some people who were there is the last 1 or 2 years. All the hugging and touching makes me very nervous and has a very cult-like feel. Also, I am not sure any of their tactics will prepare the students for "real-life", in the real world life does NOT revolve around you and your problems and the day cannot stop for you to talk about your issues with others.
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We are considering enrolling a child at Carlbrook. I would love to hear from some people who were there is the last 1 or 2 years. All the hugging and touching makes me very nervous and has a very cult-like feel. Also, I am not sure any of their tactics will prepare the students for "real-life", in the real world life does NOT revolve around you and your problems and the day cannot stop for you to talk about your issues with others.
It sounds as if you've already decided that this school is not right and rightly so.
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We are considering enrolling a child at Carlbrook. I would love to hear from some people who were there is the last 1 or 2 years. All the hugging and touching makes me very nervous and has a very cult-like feel. Also, I am not sure any of their tactics will prepare the students for "real-life", in the real world life does NOT revolve around you and your problems and the day cannot stop for you to talk about your issues with others.
Carlbrook doesn't help anyone with everyday life more than just maturing naturally. In fact, it hurts. What they will say is that talking about your issues isn't intended to be something that is continued at the same level after Carlbrook but is a needed step. I was there and I know what really goes on. Talking about your issues is something that is needed, for everyone. Some people just talk with their friends while others feel the need to pay other people to talk to. However, Carlbrook is in almost everyway, a microcosm of a tolitarian society. If you read more entries in this forum, which I definitely would recommend if you are still considering sending your child to Carlbrook, many people can agree on something. Carlbrook, because of its tolitarian-like infrastructure, will bring each student down and force each child to not only question their morals, behaviors, and actions, but to recognize all of them as bad (even the good ones). The reason they do this is because they want to build everyone up again from scratch, modeling each and every student after the “Carlbrook ideals/standards.” They do this through intense forms of manipulation and cognitive illusions. The harder a student resists Carlbrook, the intensity of the “treatment” increases. Some people are rushed into suspension while others can mingle in the fear of being next, but every person must deal with being told that they are the rejects of their family and society. By graduation, each student is expected to be a mindless puppet.
The hugging is used for a couple reasons. One reason is to aid in the brainwashing. Throughout one’s stay at Carlbrook, they must undergo severe emotional trauma. The first thing any intelligent and right minded person would think is who is causing me this pain? After recognizing that, the first thing someone would do is try to escape the pain. For obvious reasons, it is hard to explain to others and yourself that this school is causing me unneeded pain, when everyone is hugging each other. The second reason is to make the school look like a nurturing environment. Most parents don’t want their child to undergo pain and when they see everyone hugging, the first thing they think is, “wow, this place is really nurturing.” Other parents become uncomfortable with the hugging (similar to how you expressed). It doesn’t matter however what the parents think of the hugging, as long as they are thinking about it. As long as the parents think about the hugging, they are distracted from any of the evils of Carlbrook and can easily ignore any of the cries for help from their child. Lastly, when the child does cry for help, the child looks like he/she has mental problems, which in turn, further supports a parent’s decision to send/keep their child at Carlbrook.
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i am casey marvins and i am a recent graduate from carlbrook school. please contact me at [email protected] to talk about enrolling your son. please. you should hear both sides before choosing. i will tell you the truth.
generous and responsible - casey greg marvins-
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i am casey marvins and i am a recent graduate from carlbrook school. please contact me at [email protected] to talk about enrolling your son. please. you should hear both sides before choosing. i will tell you the truth.
generous and responsible - casey greg marvins-
Because anyone who would post their actual name and .edu email address on this forum is clearly a font of wisdom and sense.
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generous and responsible - casey greg marvins-
Ho there. That sounds like a summit contract to me. (Cant remember what carlbrook calls the last workshop. But where Iz hail from, that thars a summit contract)
Still have your key?
Yeah.. well. You'll get over that.
Because anyone who would post their actual name and .edu email address on this forum is clearly a font of wisdom and sense.
Southwestern is a university. The lad's in college. (Recent grad, remember?)
How're you adjusting to college life, Casey?
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Something tells me that you know this casey marvins...do you work at carlbrook or you just attended it?
Oh and since we're on the topic of college. Carlbrook actually hurts your chances of getting into a good college. Since I didn't graduate from high school there, I didn't have to worry about this. But it hurts your chances in so many ways. They lie saying that it goes under a college preparatory boarding school. Any right minded college application officer would look up carlbrook on the internet and find out that its screwed up. They might even find this forum, wouldn't that be ironic? In addition, it doesn't offer enough rigorous courses and you cannot even be on a sport. I'm now attending a top college. Unlike other people on this forum (I'm not pointing fingers), I don't like to give away my personal info to strangers on the internet. But I can tell you that if I did graduate from carlbrook, I would be attending a college at least one level down from where I am now.
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I have no idea who he is.
He's referencing stuff from the summit.
Carlbrook is a cedu clone, I was in cedu, there you go.
And yes, his email is from a college. jeez, people. paranoid fuckers.
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We are considering enrolling a child at Carlbrook. I would love to hear from some people who were there is the last 1 or 2 years. All the hugging and touching makes me very nervous and has a very cult-like feel. Also, I am not sure any of their tactics will prepare the students for "real-life", in the real world life does NOT revolve around you and your problems and the day cannot stop for you to talk about your issues with others.
Feel free to email me with your questions.
carlbrookdad[AT]yahooDOTcom
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Don't believe anything Jim has to say. This man sent our child to a program without my knowledge and I am in a legal battle with him to prevent our other child from being sent there as well. Jim, why did you cheat on me with my sister? I hate you!
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Don't believe anything Jim has to say. This man sent our child to a program without my knowledge and I am in a legal battle with him to prevent our other child from being sent there as well. Jim, why did you cheat on me with my sister? I hate you!
I hope you don't think I'm Jim. I have no idea who you are.
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Casey, the only reason you're so passionately (and maybe unhealthily) attached to Carlbrook is because it was the only place you ever felt important. You were no one before Carlbrook, ignored, unnoticed, and Carlbrook refuses to allow any student to shrink into the shadows.
So good for you. Carlbrook made you feel important. However, it also made you kind of a bully and a self-righteous, melodramatic and quite dependent on Carlbrook.
While I think that everyone has the right to feel however they feel about their own experiences, either extreme is bad. You're brainwashed and pathetically clingy towards Carlbrook. Others hate everything about Carlbrook and let it taint their lives today. Personally, I see both sides. I appreciate how Carlbrook helped me make friends but I also recognize how manipulative and fucked-up portions of it were.
Things don't have to be so black and white, Casey. I feel like you're afraid to criticize Carlbrook or see any of the negative aspects of it because if Carlbrook isn't perfect, then it's not true, and if it's not true, then you're still that pitiful, unliked loser you were at home. You can separate yourself from Carlbrook. You're too attached in my opinion.
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Jim, why did you cheat on me with my sister? I hate you!
ahahaha wtf is this private drama doing on this thread
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Casey, the only reason you're so passionately (and maybe unhealthily) attached to Carlbrook is because it was the only place you ever felt important. You were no one before Carlbrook, ignored, unnoticed, and Carlbrook refuses to allow any student to shrink into the shadows.
So good for you. Carlbrook made you feel important. However, it also made you kind of a bully and a self-righteous, melodramatic and quite dependent on Carlbrook.
While I think that everyone has the right to feel however they feel about their own experiences, either extreme is bad. You're brainwashed and pathetically clingy towards Carlbrook. Others hate everything about Carlbrook and let it taint their lives today. Personally, I see both sides. I appreciate how Carlbrook helped me make friends but I also recognize how manipulative and fucked-up portions of it were.
Things don't have to be so black and white, Casey. I feel like you're afraid to criticize Carlbrook or see any of the negative aspects of it because if Carlbrook isn't perfect, then it's not true, and if it's not true, then you're still that pitiful, unliked loser you were at home. You can separate yourself from Carlbrook. You're too attached in my opinion.
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:bump:
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So I still have nightmares of being at carlbrook. Does anyone else still have these dreams?
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I apologize for the double post. I wasn't planning on sharing this with the forum, but hey why not! When I got home from Carlbrook, I didn't have any therapy for awhile. About five months later, I went back to a psychiatrist. This psychiatrist specifically was the man that reccomended Carlbrook and the woods to my guardian after only knowing stuff that my guardian told him. Well, he actually apologized to me. He told me that his advice was wrong and that it was definetly a horrible choice to send me into intense therapy, especially after never having had any therapy what's so ever before hand. At this point, I told him that I've been having nightmares of being at carlbrook every night since I got home. He reccomended me another therapist to see. At that point, I was already over 18 so I am doing this on my own free will. He told me that I have gone through a trauma that needs to be worked out.
"So I have to have therapy because of therapy?"
"Yes."
Apparently, when I was away, a lot of the things that were thrown at me, especially during my animus and even teneo were undeserved. My original thoughts when I was going through treatment at carlbrook was that this cannot be right. But under the circumstances of environmental manipulation, I coerced. I was put into suspension for not agreeing with carlbrook, and low in behold, I was right. When i walked out of my new therapist's office for the first time, we ended on him saying to me,
"You were punished for being depressed. You were treated like a criminal because you faced repetitive traumas in your life. They wouldn't let you grieve properly and because of this, I think you are right when you said you felt like you lost a connection with your dad while you were there. I'm not going to pressure you and I definetley will not punish you. There is no standard treatment for therapy so I will not make any attempt to treat you similarly to any of my other patients. I'm just thankful this experience has not scarred you enough to keep you away from therapy all together."
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Validation is so hugely important when seeking counsel for anything especially trauma. More so when hurt has been inflicted by and exacerbated by those who had been guised in the role of therapeutic practitioners. I’m very glad you have found that.
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Hopefully with Validation comes peace of mind. Good luck and god bless.
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I apologize for the double post. I wasn't planning on sharing this with the forum, but hey why not! When I got home from Carlbrook, I didn't have any therapy for awhile. About five months later, I went back to a psychiatrist. This psychiatrist specifically was the man that reccomended Carlbrook and the woods to my guardian after only knowing stuff that my guardian told him. Well, he actually apologized to me. He told me that his advice was wrong and that it was definetly a horrible choice to send me into intense therapy, especially after never having had any therapy what's so ever before hand. At this point, I told him that I've been having nightmares of being at carlbrook every night since I got home. He reccomended me another therapist to see. At that point, I was already over 18 so I am doing this on my own free will. He told me that I have gone through a trauma that needs to be worked out.
"So I have to have therapy because of therapy?"
"Yes."
Apparently, when I was away, a lot of the things that were thrown at me, especially during my animus and even teneo were undeserved. My original thoughts when I was going through treatment at carlbrook was that this cannot be right. But under the circumstances of environmental manipulation, I coerced. I was put into suspension for not agreeing with carlbrook, and low in behold, I was right. When i walked out of my new therapist's office for the first time, we ended on him saying to me,
"You were punished for being depressed. You were treated like a criminal because you faced repetitive traumas in your life. They wouldn't let you grieve properly and because of this, I think you are right when you said you felt like you lost a connection with your dad while you were there. I'm not going to pressure you and I definetley will not punish you. There is no standard treatment for therapy so I will not make any attempt to treat you similarly to any of my other patients. I'm just thankful this experience has not scarred you enough to keep you away from therapy all together."
Please write down all the details of your imprisonment at Carlbrook - CEDU - Synanon.
It is important you do so before you being to forget them. They are vital if you ever wish to take legal action against Carlbrook, criminal or civil, and simply to create a record of the atrocities that go on at the abusive cult.
If you choose to do so, you can also provide your witness account to a group like heal, isac, or cafety.
They will post it on their site, using it to provide a voice for the teens carlbrook destroyed, and, perhaps, to initiate actions to punish its evildoers, and prevent them from continuing to victimize with impunity.
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I went to carlbrook August 19, 2005-March 1, 2006
a little backround:
I am a former cocaine, xtc, painkiller, benzo, meth addict who was way out of line at home and stealing and arrested for assault and battery. I asked my parents for help and this is what they did:
1. sent me to a residentail treatment center for one month (Hazelden in Minisota)
2. dirrectly sent me to a wilderness program for 7weeks (second nature Utah)
3. dirrectly sent to Carlbrook school in Virginia
My experience at Carlbrook was double sided.
The acedemics there were great and i enjoyed the classes very much.
The "therapy" however was terrible. The owner of the school is border line insane.
i would describe my experience there as abusive un unhelpful.
I would go into specifics but I would go on for pages.
If anyone has any specific questions regarding Carlbrook School feel free to ask me: [email protected]
Did Hazelden recomending "placing" you in Carlbrook? :jawdrop:
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Please write down...victimize with impunity.
If you check my prior posts on this forum (I've been posting since Page 5), you can get a better idea of my background. I apologize for not wanting to repeat it all. I also have already recorded all that I need to. I don't plan on contacting any of those organizations at this time however. Right now, I'm too busy with school work and other stuff, but I'm still intending to take further action in the future. I do plan of course to make sure I engage civilly when the time comes. I’ve learned over time that grouping myself with an organization will diminish my argument or at least limit me in some way or another. These troubled teen institutions already treat everyone the same, giving a generic course of action for individual’s therapy. This is one of my key points which can prove the inefficiency of this industry. It seems silly therefore to group myself with others just like the oppressors did once before.
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We are considering enrolling a child at Carlbrook. I would love to hear from some people who were there is the last 1 or 2 years. All the hugging and touching makes me very nervous and has a very cult-like feel. Also, I am not sure any of their tactics will prepare the students for "real-life", in the real world life does NOT revolve around you and your problems and the day cannot stop for you to talk about your issues with others.
worried - I graduated from Cbk in July 2006. The hugging and touching really freaked me out. I actually got permission from the psychiatrist on staff to not participate in the hugging after "last light" because the crowd sparked some anxiety (I don't know how everyone wasn't anxious). The other students thought that I was out of my mind, but I simply don't like being touched by just anyone. I have heard that Tim Brace once admitted to Carlbrook being a cult. Not sure how true this is, but honestly, I believe that it is pushing cult limits. I still hear the workshop "tools" echoing in my head. I've gone through so many stages since I graduated and still think about the school and what it did to me everyday.
Don't do it - and if you've already done it, listen very closely to your child. I didn't tell my parents what was going on in fear that they'd speak to my adviser about it and I would be punished. The only people you should turn to are the teachers and your own child. He/she is the only person who can truly tell you what's going on and if the school is negatively affecting him/her.
Good luck.
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So I still have nightmares of being at carlbrook. Does anyone else still have these dreams?
Absolutely. At least once a week. And I've been gone for 3 and 1/2 years!
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Something tells me that you know this casey marvins...do you work at carlbrook or you just attended it?
Oh and since we're on the topic of college. Carlbrook actually hurts your chances of getting into a good college. Since I didn't graduate from high school there, I didn't have to worry about this. But it hurts your chances in so many ways. They lie saying that it goes under a college preparatory boarding school. Any right minded college application officer would look up carlbrook on the internet and find out that its screwed up. They might even find this forum, wouldn't that be ironic? In addition, it doesn't offer enough rigorous courses and you cannot even be on a sport. I'm now attending a top college. Unlike other people on this forum (I'm not pointing fingers), I don't like to give away my personal info to strangers on the internet. But I can tell you that if I did graduate from carlbrook, I would be attending a college at least one level down from where I am now.
Mr. Paperclip - I'd love to talk to you... I thought I knew who you were but this post has made me question. Were we there at the same time? I graduated with the upsilon class in July 2006...
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Mr. Paperclip - I'd love to talk to you... I thought I knew who you were but this post has made me question. Were we there at the same time? I graduated with the upsilon class in July 2006...
I'm sorry. I wouldn't have known you if you were there at those times, but I'd definetley want to talk to you. You can e-mail me at [email protected] . It's my secondary e-mail.
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Paperclip, be careful, the violent Carlbrook cult may be interested in uncovering your identity, especially because you have mentioned you are interested in suing them.
Consider the potential consequences, if any, of making your identity known to the cult. Consult an attorney.
As to your hesitation with dealing with Isac or HEAL: please consider providing them with your testimony and adding some kind of addendum stipulating that you don't necessarily support their beliefs, goals, or methods as a way of handling your qualms. Otherwise, your experience with Carlbrook cannot really be included in the public record, because its only represented on a message board. It's very important that it is included for so many reasons. Thank you. :rose:
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Paperclip, be careful, the violent Carlbrook cult may be interested in uncovering your identity, especially because you have mentioned you are interested in suing them.
Consider the potential consequences, if any, of making your identity known to the cult. Consult an attorney.
As to your hesitation with dealing with Isac or HEAL: please consider providing them with your testimony and adding some kind of addendum stipulating that you don't necessarily support their beliefs, goals, or methods as a way of handling your qualms. Otherwise, your experience with Carlbrook cannot really be included in the public record, because its only represented on a message board. It's very important that it is included for so many reasons. Thank you. :rose:
Paperclip, I'm going to private message you with my name. Guest - how do you suggest that Cbk graduates who disagree with the program come together? And why is everyone trying to force legal action? You do realize that many of us are still struggling with things that happened to us there? This is a very new school and there are VERY few alumni who agree with Paperclip and me. Taking a stand against Cbk could mean losing friends who you went through the experience with. And they are not at fault for still having the blindfold on, Carlbrook tied it on pretty f*ing tight. I am personally not ready to tell my story to the world. I understand that this does not help kids who are there now, nor does it help the overall problem... but I spent a year and a half having shit shoved down my throat. I was convinced. Now I've spent the last 3 1/2 years trying to undo it all. Being pushy isn't going to help anything. If anything, it makes me feel even more uncomfortable about speaking.
And yes, it is possible that Cbk is worried and trying to expose the "rebellious" grads. But if you took a look at the contract that the parents have to sign when they put the kid in the school, your hopes for suing the school will be significantly lessened. It absolutely encompasses all that is done there plus more. And unfortunately - many of us appear to be doing better than we did before. Carlbrook has a very good argument with the "success rate." It is truly a different sort of place. These people are smart and know how to avoid trouble. I don't think they're bothering stalking alumni who are complaining on Fornits.
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Reminder: Whatever contract your parents signed is completely meaningless with regards to abuse.
If anything it means your parents should be co-defendants.
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From what I hear, Carlbrook is basically a dumbed down John Dewey Academy. Less intense, lower standards, slightly inferior colleges, but overall percentage-wise it stabilizes and helps more kids. Dewey kids will never break the rules and Carlbrook kids do all the time. The term used is "underground." The bars lower, but I suspect its safer. I was a Dewey grad btw.
FYI, never trust a parents perspective or someone with a solely positive perspective. Parents are either made stupid by their inobjectivity or just plain stupid. Also don't trust someone who has only positive things to say about a place, cause clearly they have involvement with the place or had a better time than most.
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Yeah except for Carlbrook doesn't stabilize or help anyone.
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Yeah except for Carlbrook doesn't stabilize or help anyone.
Guest, were you a Carlbrook student? This is partially true. Carlbrook "helps" simply by stabilizing people. It does stabilize many. Not necessarily forever, but it does. It stabilized me and this is literally the only good thing I have to say about it at this point.
And in response to the John Dewey comment - I hear that it is very similar. I think the real reason kids get away with more at Carlbrook is because of the size. Carlbrook has around 130 students at a time. I've hear that John Dewey is closer to 30?
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I recently graduated from Carlbrook. I don't know when you went there cooltherapy but I can assure you that there was no underground going on. Everything was controlled. I heard that there was an underground in Carlbrook history but they did away with it by creating suspension and action plans as opposed to just programs. However, over the last couple years, suspension was turned into "a necessary part of everyone's treatment" as oppposed to just a punishment. I admit, there were things that happened during my stay which were to say the least, out of the ordinary. Nevertheless, the school quickly discovered it and the people were immediatley punished. They even contained it so much that no one on campus, besides for the people that were involved in it, ever knew what really happened.
I graduated last August and since I've been gone, I've noticed a lot of similar feelings on the internet that I'm feeling right now. I was pretty sure I loved Carlbrook after I graduated, but now, I'm beginning to question their methods. But of course, I can't tell anyone this because then my friends will hate me.
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Hey "the dude,"
Okay - I graduated in 2006 with all of the underground folks. It was actually pretty funny, the whole thing. The entire school lost it when the underground was "revealed." Actually, the leader of it couldn't handle the guilt anymore and turned himself and the rest of them in. And yes, this is when they created suspension. Before that, it was just "programs" which were somewhere between an action plan and suspension. Equally miserable. I hated mine. They lasted anywhere from 3 weeks to a few months. They also used to put people on "stumps" when I was there. When they were taken out of school on a program, they'd find a tree that had been cut down and make the kid dig the stump out of the ground. I hated watching that. It made me think of the book Holes.
Would you like to talk? Mr. Paperclip and I have started talking about finding some sort of support group for unhappy Cbk grads. I need to create an alternate email account for this purpose. Any interest in helping out?
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Cooltherapy, I don't think I'm ready for that yet. My friends have already rejected other kids because they went against carlbrook. Besides, if I do this, then eventually I'm going to have to come clean entirely about my distaste for carlbrook, even to my parents! The last thing they want is to think that I'm going against them again. I know it sounds silly but we are talking about the same people who sent me there in the first place.
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Extra special protip to The Dude: Don't tell *anyone*, except maybe a good lawyer or if you're in court, your real name in conjunction with your actual experiences at Carlbrook, until you turn 18 or become emancipated. Just don't.
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Cooltherapy, I don't think I'm ready for that yet. My friends have already rejected other kids because they went against carlbrook. Besides, if I do this, then eventually I'm going to have to come clean entirely about my distaste for carlbrook, even to my parents! The last thing they want is to think that I'm going against them again. I know it sounds silly but we are talking about the same people who sent me there in the first place.
I completely understand. No pressure. Take your time. I can't believe you have kids rejecting you already. That's terrible. New Cbk grads can be so righteous and seem to suffer from the "dunning-kruger effect" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect_)) Check that out, it's pretty hilarious.
Whenever you feel ready, we're here. This is why I want to do something like this. We need some sort of private forum where we can actually talk without the pressure of people trying to push us to take legal action, etc. Our school sounds different than all of the other schools I have read about. They did an incredible job of getting into our heads. Trust me, I know this. I've nearly been gone for 3 years.
If you change your mind, let me know. Otherwise, I'm here to talk on this forum. I know how weird it is at first. Good luck. I'd suggest you not talk to your graduating class until you've been out for longer. People get really offended at first.
And as for your parents - I have told both of mine how I feel about the school. My mother is extremely supportive of me but my father refuses to believe that he not only wasted his money, but misused it. We don't have as much money as most of the Carlbrook families. You might be surprised with the results you get. But I'd suggest you give it a year or two before you bring it up with them. Figure out where you really stand.
Okay, enough lecturing. Sorry about that. Good luck. If you need anything, I'm here.
-cooltherapy
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Extra special protip to The Dude: Don't tell *anyone*, except maybe a good lawyer or if you're in court, your real name in conjunction with your actual experiences at Carlbrook, until you turn 18 or become emancipated. Just don't.
Please stop suggesting lawyers and pressing charges. It is incredibly obnoxious.
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Extra special protip to The Dude: Don't tell *anyone*, except maybe a good lawyer or if you're in court, your real name in conjunction with your actual experiences at Carlbrook, until you turn 18 or become emancipated. Just don't.
Please stop suggesting lawyers and pressing charges. It is incredibly obnoxious.
Why?
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Because no one is going to do it until there is a bigger group of people who have come together to take a stand. Doing something like this alone would be self-sabotage. None of the other grads would forgive us. Not because there is something wrong with them but because they haven't come to terms with it yet. Give it a rest. That would be a positive outcome but it is going to take some time and energy.
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I completely agree with cooltherapy. Even though for a lot of us, to combat these places and finally take them down seems ideal, it’s not in our power right now. The only thing we are doing by suggesting something like that in this point in time is hurting our chances of doing something in the future. We do however need a forum where people that did go to Carlbrook can talk anonymously about their experiences and feelings. It should definitely be public though so other people can see what we're discussing and maybe join it. However, there does need to be a username system so we know people aren't impersonating others.
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So in other words, "cooltherapy", what you want to be able to do is control the dissent so that nobody at Carlbrook actually ends up getting in trouble for what they've done.
Nice try.
If you have been wronged in such a way that is against the law (hint: child abuse is against the law), you are entitled to legal recourse in the civil and possibly the criminal justice system. The "other grads" forgiving you is completely meaningless to this. Odds are, many of them have greivances as well and your individual cases can be combined into a class action.
If you don't know whether or not you have a case, an attorney (and only an attorney) is qualified to tell you. Be sure to tell the attorney everything you experienced at Carlbrook.
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Because no one is going to do it until there is a bigger group of people who have come together to take a stand. Doing something like this alone would be self-sabotage. None of the other grads would forgive us. Not because there is something wrong with them but because they haven't come to terms with it yet. Give it a rest. That would be a positive outcome but it is going to take some time and energy.
You can deal with Carlbrook School however you want to. Ignore people who pressure you to sue Carlbrook School.
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So in other words, "cooltherapy", what you want to be able to do is control the dissent so that nobody at Carlbrook actually ends up getting in trouble for what they've done.
Nice try.
If you have been wronged in such a way that is against the law (hint: child abuse is against the law), you are entitled to legal recourse in the civil and possibly the criminal justice system. The "other grads" forgiving you is completely meaningless to this. Odds are, many of them have greivances as well and your individual cases can be combined into a class action.
If you don't know whether or not you have a case, an attorney (and only an attorney) is qualified to tell you. Be sure to tell the attorney everything you experienced at Carlbrook.
Can you read? Cooltherapy has clearly stated that it would be impossible to take Carlbrook to the court room and it is more important for people that have been affiliated with Carlbrook (staff, graduates, etc.) to speak freely without the threat of sacrifice. I have said similar things too. The problem with forming any type of case, including class action, would be that we would have no chance of winning. Carlbrook's "success" rate is too high and to the best of my knowledge at least, no one has ever been physically abused at Carlbrook. Any judge who hears that would easily suffice into thinking the tons of mental abuse is fair game. Moreover, the skeptics of Carlbrook right now are not only few in number, but uncollected. Every person, (even me) is worried what people would think if they found out how they felt and to what level they feel that way. These worries have caused secondary anxiety because for many people, they think they’re alone in the matter. For those reasons (as well as others!), it’s pointless to consider legal action right now. However, by using a social utility where people can speak freely about Carlbrook, hopefully a larger group will form which would create a sense of legitimacy in the court room.
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Cooltherapy > Trolls will pressure you to sue Carlbrook School, write a legally binding complaint for ISAC or consult with Angela Smith of HEAL.
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Or inform state regulators, Senators (particularly those sitting on H. R. 911), or other various political entities.
Oh, those dastardly trolls! How dare they suggest actual actions in spite of what some anonymous fellow abuse survivor may or may not think of the process? How dare they actually, y'know, take steps that might result in someone STOPPING THE FUCKING ABUSE? Nah! We couldn't possibly have that! That'd be horrible and wrong (for Carlbrook). We need to huddle together and be victims forever. That's the way to go.
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Sounds like Dimitri cut short the program. Kicked out or pulled by the parents?
The top guy is not Tim Brace. It is Grant Price.
Tim Brace is not abusive.
More bullshit on fornits.
Tim Brace IS abusive. I used to work there. I saw Tim Brace laying on a sofa WITH a male student with his arms wrapped around him. It was disgusting.
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Tim Brace IS abusive. I used to work there. I saw Tim Brace laying on a sofa WITH a male student with his arms wrapped around him. It was disgusting.
That's your cynical Chicken Little attitude. Tim Brace may be a lot of things but he is NOT a child molester. Look, I graduated from Carlbrook in 2008, I do NOT think that it helped me, I DO have huge problems with many of the staff and disagree with many of the practices but it is ridiculous and detrimental to make false accusations. As someone who would have no reason to "protect the cult" or whatever melodramatic label you want to put on it, I am telling you that Tim Brace, despite whatever issues you might have with his practices, would never intentionally hurt a child, mentally or physically. He was touchy-feely but NOT IN AN INAPPROPRIATE WAY.
By throwing out untrue crap like "Tim Brace is a pedo" or "Andy Coe is a liar" is not only RIDICULOUS but also DETRIMENTAL. By spewing out slander, you're undermining the TRUE problems that people are speaking up about regarding Carlbrook.
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That's your cynical Chicken Little attitude. Tim Brace may be a lot of things but he is NOT a child molester. Look, I graduated from Carlbrook in 2008, I do NOT think that it helped me, I DO have huge problems with many of the staff and disagree with many of the practices but it is ridiculous and detrimental to make false accusations. As someone who would have no reason to "protect the cult" or whatever melodramatic label you want to put on it, I am telling you that Tim Brace, despite whatever issues you might have with his practices, would never intentionally hurt a child, mentally or physically. He was touchy-feely but NOT IN AN INAPPROPRIATE WAY.
By throwing out untrue crap like "Tim Brace is a pedo" or "Andy Coe is a liar" is not only RIDICULOUS but also DETRIMENTAL. By spewing out slander, you're undermining the TRUE problems that people are speaking up about regarding Carlbrook.
I'm going to have to side with you. When I was there, yes Tim Brace's touchyfeeleyness made me uncomfortable at times, but I don't think that should have any weight for our REAL detriments at Carlbrook. At the same time however, I don't want to discount the whole "hugging" thing because I'm positive that has affected students negatively in some way or another. The hugging at Carlbrook wasn’t something that was there to make people feel safe, but it was really used to see how you were adjusting to Carlbrook. For example, I was called out in group by my advisor for not wanting to lay down with other guys during last light.
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Because no one is going to do it until there is a bigger group of people who have come together to take a stand. Doing something like this alone would be self-sabotage. None of the other grads would forgive us. Not because there is something wrong with them but because they haven't come to terms with it yet. Give it a rest. That would be a positive outcome but it is going to take some time and energy.
Lol, do you guys actually hear yourselves? I mean, my understand is that your saying Carlbrook is controlling and abusive and uses mind-fuckery. Do you not realise the unwillingness to speak up and take legal action is what Carlbrook wants, and why they encourage the grads to be so high horse and judgemental, creating a kind of exclusive tight-knit cult of Carlbrook graduates where everyone's afraid to saw an opinion that's too incendiary, enforcing and fueling the cult mentality of falling into other people's acceptance in exchange for your self-respect and justice?
Now, I certainly concur with the point that a court case may not go much of anywhere, but at the same, I'd really recommend you giuys really think about why the hell it's so damn important what some brainwashed folks who've fallen so deep that without question they would ostracise you for failing to fully comply and be brainwashed like them think of you. I mean, really, let go?
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Tim Brace IS abusive. I used to work there. I saw Tim Brace laying on a sofa WITH a male student with his arms wrapped around him. It was disgusting.
That's your cynical Chicken Little attitude. Tim Brace may be a lot of things but he is NOT a child molester. Look, I graduated from Carlbrook in 2008, I do NOT think that it helped me, I DO have huge problems with many of the staff and disagree with many of the practices but it is ridiculous and detrimental to make false accusations. As someone who would have no reason to "protect the cult" or whatever melodramatic label you want to put on it, I am telling you that Tim Brace, despite whatever issues you might have with his practices, would never intentionally hurt a child, mentally or physically. He was touchy-feely but NOT IN AN INAPPROPRIATE WAY.
By throwing out untrue crap like "Tim Brace is a pedo" or "Andy Coe is a liar" is not only RIDICULOUS but also DETRIMENTAL. By spewing out slander, you're undermining the TRUE problems that people are speaking up about regarding Carlbrook.
Chicken Little attitude?? LMAO! That was cute. I NEVER said he was a child molester. And no where in my post did I make any false accusations. What I said that it was disgusting to see a grown man SPOONING on the sofa with a young man. It would have been equally disgusting if he was laying with a young girl. You can say all you want that it wasn't inapporpriate, but in MY eyes it was. Being the mother of 3 teens, I would have been greatly disturbed to see a grown man laying with my son, spoon fashion, cuddling, stroking his hair and whispering in his ear. Maybe when you grow up and have children of your own you will understand where I'm coming from. The children at Carlbrook had enough problems without having to add their peers see them spooning on the sofa with another man and then having to listen to others question their sexuality and possibly questioning it themselves. BTW, I didn't say Andy is a liar. I never even mentioned his name. I actually like Andy AND just to be clear, I like Tim. I don't think he is a bad person...just bad choices. I honestly loved "most" of the staff...everyone except Grant.
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Oh the underground--that whole group where everyone got "busted" was insane--I remember coming back from another group that day (ok, I was a goody two shoes) and listening upstairs in the commons while Grant went insane. I graduated in May 06, and still have nightmares about Carlbrook. I've done surprisingly well out in the "real world," but Carlbrook definitely made things more difficult out here.
P.S. not a Tim Brace fan--he always took the guy's side, as toolish as they could be. It was really frustrating if you were a girl and had negative interactions with one of his favorites. Same thing with Jen McArthur, but I don't think she works there anymore.
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Also, though I'm not a Tim Brace fan, it's not ok all of you are completely maligning his name when you have no proof.
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I went to Carlbrook, graduated a couple years ago, don't think about it much now.
It sucked while I was there, I was always terrified of the staff, had no personal freedoms, and missed the oppurtunity to actually go to high school and develop into a young adult like everyone else. My educational consultant was also good friends with the owner's mother, and from the day my parents walked into her office to talk about me, before she knew a thing about me, she knew I was going to Carlbrook. That being said, it was only a couple years and wasn't that big of a deal in retrospect.
The worst thing about it, for me at least, is that it always felt as if it had been designed more for the parents than for the students (or inmates if you want to be a prick about it.) The staff spent at least as much time, if not more, talking to our parents as they spent talking to us. After all, they were the ones paying the bill. The point was never really to "save the students lives" as they were so fond of saying, but to convince the parents that the students lives were being saved. It always felt a bit fucked up to me, because I spent half my sixteenth, my entire seventeenth, and a good bit of my eighteenth years there, and it always felt that I was there counting the days and living in fear, all so that my parents could tell themselves that they were "doing the right thing" or "making the hard choice," And those are good years that I will never get back.
What it comes down to is everyone is benefiting from Carlbrook at the students expense. The parents are basically paying for peace of mind, so that they get to feel a little bit better about the children they had been ignoring until it became inconvenient enough that they decided to outsource their parental responsibility. The (extremely underqualified and, with very few exceptions, quite stupid) staff gets to go home every night, pat themselves on the back for "saving a kid's life" or "making a real difference in the world," then crack a beer, watch monday night football and fuck their wife, and of course, if a student were to do any one of those things, they would be in the woods the next day. And the owners get paid, although they pretend they don't. They've got parents paying more than it costs to go to Harvard to have their kids sleep 4 to a room in glorified trailers, that money must go somewhere.
My point of view is, if you are considering sending your kid away, think long and hard about why, and about where their problems come from, because in general the parents are just as much to blame for problems in family dynamics as kids, if not more. Once your kid is in the system everyone is going to work as hard as they can to get you to keep them in it, that's how they make their living, and although you'll probably be paying through the nose for whatever program you send them to, your kid is going to pay for your decision with what should have been some of the best years of their lives, and they'll never get them back.
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Good insights, afs. Sorry you were robbed of so much of your youth, and I hope your life is better now. It sounds like through your own resilience you have been able to go forward.
Auntie Em
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afs, you have some good points there.
My family changed a lot from the program, for the better, but I still felt like my parents held it over my head how much the program cost. I feel like Carlbrook really does make the parents feel like they've done this "amazing" work, and I'm not saying my parents didn't, but it took a while for my parents at least to understand just how hard it was to be there. They also took Carlbrook's suggestions a bit far, especially about things in college--I wasn't allowed to go through greek recruitment my freshman year because "Carlbrook said it would be bad"--and funny enough, I've made some amazing friendships through the system I think Carlbrook would approve of.
I went to Carlbrook because of a lot of emotional insecurities in high school, and it was a big shock to suddenly move from a relatively sheltered environment to being around kids who had done things like dealt drugs, had addiction problems, gotten into issues with the law, etc. That said, those kids became some of my best friends as when it all boiled down to it, we had similar emotional issues. I am grateful for that eye-opening experience which made me a lot more compassionate towards others and got me off my high horse.
However, it was really frustrating, to me at least, how much some staff tried to convince me I belonged there, it was like they tore me down from day 1. My parents later admitted to me that Kelly Dunbar, the admittance counselor, didn't even want to let me in at first because I didn't have "serious enough issues." I didn't have bad grades, I had been pretty involved in school, and they attacked that. The girls could also be vicious at first--I didn't gain as much weight as a lot of people because I loved running and older girls would keep telling me how much weight I would gain eventually. I wasn't allowed to hold positions on committees or even be on some because I was told that "perfection" was my coping mechanism--which, in a sense, was true, but it was frustrating because I never felt like I got that sense of "ok, I'm doing well here." I'm almost scared to write that on here now for fear of being recognized, having staff read this and be like "oh, so and so never changed." It's funny how you still want their approval regardless of if you know you are doing well. It's also ironic that some of the kids that did hold positions have done much worse out here in the real world, and that my angry sense of "ok, you think I can't do this? Screw you" that I got from some Carlbrook experiences has, for me at least, led to a fairly productive life so far and some great accomplishments.
There were some amazing staff members at Carlbrook who truly reached out to me and got me through and I still communicate with. Funny enough, I got close to those staff who weren't as in your face or the ones who were a bit renegade--basically the ones who truly cared about the kids. I found my passion and future career path there, but I don't know, if I could go back and decide my life path, if I would choose to go through all that. Being in college, it's hard to explain why people don't know what your high school was, why you didn't have a prom, etc. I feel a lot more mature than a lot of my peers, but I also feel very disconnected, and like afs said, like I missed out on some formative years of my life. With the sport I'm in (if I say it, I will identify myself, so just leaving it at that), it's been a hard catch-up game to participate in college and explain why you're so passionate about it yet couldn't participate in high school. Freshman year going to practice was a huge frustration as it was a constant reminder of how I missed out on two years of something I loved and sometimes it still is because I'll never be as good as those who had the chance to participate all through high school. With my sport, it's time you can't get back.
So, I guess if there are parents on here reading this, think long and hard about it. Don't hold it against your kid, and realize how hard the school really is.
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cbgrad is 100% right
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F U C K
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Tim Brace was the director of mount bachelor academy for awhile. He had the same job as Sharon Bitz did until MBA got its license suspended and Aspen shut it down. MBA and Sharon Bitz personally were cited by Oregon for a number of kinds of child abuse, you can find this on other boards or on the web. I witnessed much of the same happen under Tim Brace and I saw him do a lot of it myself.
in his first meeting there he announced to the whole school that he used to "suck cock for crack" - his words
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Well, duh. How do you think he got the job?
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bump
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FUCK
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Tim Brace was the director of mount bachelor academy for awhile. He had the same job as Sharon Bitz did until MBA got its license suspended and Aspen shut it down. MBA and Sharon Bitz personally were cited by Oregon for a number of kinds of child abuse, you can find this on other boards or on the web. I witnessed much of the same happen under Tim Brace and I saw him do a lot of it myself.
I was there when he was there. couldn't stand that guy. reminded me of a car salesman. but touchy-feely, gross. hugs with rubbing
in his first meeting there he announced to the whole school that he used to "suck cock for crack" - his words
was there too. summoned guest did you see that come up one of the mba facebook pages?
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FUCK
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Tim Brace was the director of mount bachelor academy for awhile. He had the same job as Sharon Bitz did until MBA got its license suspended and Aspen shut it down. MBA and Sharon Bitz personally were cited by Oregon for a number of kinds of child abuse, you can find this on other boards or on the web. I witnessed much of the same happen under Tim Brace and I saw him do a lot of it myself.
I was there when he was there. couldn't stand that guy. reminded me of a car salesman. but touchy-feely, gross. hugs with rubbing
in his first meeting there he announced to the whole school that he used to "suck cock for crack" - his words
was there too. summoned guest did you see that come up one of the mba facebook pages?
bump
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FUCK
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Tim Brace was the director of mount bachelor academy for awhile. He had the same job as Sharon Bitz did until MBA got its license suspended and Aspen shut it down. MBA and Sharon Bitz personally were cited by Oregon for a number of kinds of child abuse, you can find this on other boards or on the web. I witnessed much of the same happen under Tim Brace and I saw him do a lot of it myself.
I was there when he was there. couldn't stand that guy. reminded me of a car salesman. but touchy-feely, gross. hugs with rubbing
in his first meeting there he announced to the whole school that he used to "suck cock for crack" - his words
was there too. summoned guest did you see that come up one of the mba facebook pages?
bump
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FUCK
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Tim Brace was the director of mount bachelor academy for awhile. He had the same job as Sharon Bitz did until MBA got its license suspended and Aspen shut it down. MBA and Sharon Bitz personally were cited by Oregon for a number of kinds of child abuse, you can find this on other boards or on the web. I witnessed much of the same happen under Tim Brace and I saw him do a lot of it myself.
in his first meeting there he announced to the whole school that he used to "suck cock for crack" - his words
Carlbrook survivors -- this http://http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/division/dfs/cps/manuals/03-2009/partIIdefinitionsofabuseandneglect3-09.pdf may be worth taking a look at
A good start might be the sections
B)2.12 Physical Abuse - Bizarre Discipline
D)2.4 Medical Neglect - Necessary Medical Care or Treatment
E)2.0 Mental Abuse -- Caretakers Actions or Omissions
Virginia Department of Social Services Hotline Numbers
Hotline Numbers
In Virginia: (800) 552-7096
Out-of-state: (804) 786-8536
Hearing-impaired: (800) 828-1120
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Tim Brace was the director of mount bachelor academy for awhile. He had the same job as Sharon Bitz did until MBA got its license suspended and Aspen shut it down. MBA and Sharon Bitz personally were cited by Oregon for a number of kinds of child abuse, you can find this on other boards or on the web. I witnessed much of the same happen under Tim Brace and I saw him do a lot of it myself.
in his first meeting there he announced to the whole school that he used to "suck cock for crack" - his words
Carlbrook survivors -- this http://http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/division/dfs/cps/manuals/03-2009/partIIdefinitionsofabuseandneglect3-09.pdf may be worth taking a look at
A good start might be the sections
B)2.12 Physical Abuse - Bizarre Discipline
D)2.4 Medical Neglect - Necessary Medical Care or Treatment
E)2.0 Mental Abuse -- Caretakers Actions or Omissions
Virginia Department of Social Services Hotline Numbers
Hotline Numbers
In Virginia: (800) 552-7096
Out-of-state: (804) 786-8536
Hearing-impaired: (800) 828-1120
Thanks for the research!!
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Tim Brace told everyone about "sucking cock for crack" but only because he wanted to show how dark his life had gotten and if he could rise up, so could we. Still, it seemed like he would say it not just to bond with us but also partially for shock value...I don't know...he is definitely a used car salesman but I think he swallows his own bullshit, you know? Like I think he genuinely believes in what he does, and I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse. Scary to think about.
I have so much anger inside me right now towards Carlbrook. I'm just now starting to realize how horrifically manipulative it was...not just while I was there but NOW. I feel like my brain works differently now. I get so scared and anxious in random situations because I have this fear of...well, I'm not sure what I'm afraid of. But it's the same crippling fear I felt at Carlbrook, of being "bad" or getting in trouble or having everything taken away. Carlbrook messed with my psychologically and I don't feel like that's ever going to go away. My therapist says the therapy that I got there created a need for more therapy to undo that therapy, ironically enough. He says I exhibit a lot of the same symptoms that his vets with PTSD do. I hate this, feeling like my mind's been violated. Were we really behaviorally modified? How can Carlbrook control me so much even when I'm not there? Help.
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FUCK
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Tim Brace was the director of mount bachelor academy for awhile. He had the same job as Sharon Bitz did until MBA got its license suspended and Aspen shut it down. MBA and Sharon Bitz personally were cited by Oregon for a number of kinds of child abuse, you can find this on other boards or on the web. I witnessed much of the same happen under Tim Brace and I saw him do a lot of it myself.
in his first meeting there he announced to the whole school that he used to "suck cock for crack" - his words
Carlbrook survivors -- this http://http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/division/dfs/cps/manuals/03-2009/partIIdefinitionsofabuseandneglect3-09.pdf may be worth taking a look at
A good start might be the sections
B)2.12 Physical Abuse - Bizarre Discipline
D)2.4 Medical Neglect - Necessary Medical Care or Treatment
E)2.0 Mental Abuse -- Caretakers Actions or Omissions
Virginia Department of Social Services Hotline Numbers
Hotline Numbers
In Virginia: (800) 552-7096
Out-of-state: (804) 786-8536
Hearing-impaired: (800) 828-1120
Thanks for the research!!
Ditto. I hope the Carlbrook survivors have the courage to speak up, spread the word to their fellow grads. The deal with these investigations seems to be the state has no impetus to take action until kids start to make complaints.
Tim Brace told everyone about "sucking cock for crack" but only because he wanted to show how dark his life had gotten and if he could rise up, so could we. Still, it seemed like he would say it not just to bond with us but also partially for shock value...I don't know...he is definitely a used car salesman but I think he swallows his own bullshit, you know?
yes
Like I think he genuinely believes in what he does, and I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse. Scary to think about.
Well it definitely makes it more sad. I think most of these staff mean well. But on the other hand most of them have degrees in something else, don't have even a teaching credential or an MFT in counseling, and haven't been getting anything but the most minimal sort of continuing education. I think the way you can succeed in working in one of these programs without any training etc is very seductive. Suddenly these people are doing something that seems meaningful and they get to feel like an expert—they think they know better than the medical establishment, etc—and kids are hugging them and parents are thanking them and then there's all the BS about how they're "saving lives." To me it's terribly arrogant.
I have so much anger inside me right now towards Carlbrook. I'm just now starting to realize how horrifically manipulative it was...not just while I was there but NOW. I feel like my brain works differently now. I get so scared and anxious in random situations because I have this fear of...well, I'm not sure what I'm afraid of.
like you get up to take a leak in the middle of the night and you just get this disorderly feeling, like everything is a howling mess?
But it's the same crippling fear I felt at Carlbrook, of being "bad" or getting in trouble or having everything taken away. Carlbrook messed with my psychologically and I don't feel like that's ever going to go away. My therapist says the therapy that I got there created a need for more therapy to undo that therapy, ironically enough. He says I exhibit a lot of the same symptoms that his vets with PTSD do. I hate this, feeling like my mind's been violated. Were we really behaviorally modified? How can Carlbrook control me so much even when I'm not there? Help.
first few times i smoked pot after i got out i had terrible flashbacks. saw the staff's faces in my mind scolding me. evil imagos
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bump
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bump
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ANAL CONSPIRACY
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Tim Brace was the director of mount bachelor academy for awhile. He had the same job as Sharon Bitz did until MBA got its license suspended and Aspen shut it down. MBA and Sharon Bitz personally were cited by Oregon for a number of kinds of child abuse, you can find this on other boards or on the web. I witnessed much of the same happen under Tim Brace and I saw him do a lot of it myself.
in his first meeting there he announced to the whole school that he used to "suck cock for crack" - his words
Carlbrook survivors -- this http://http://www.dss.virginia.gov/files/division/dfs/cps/manuals/03-2009/partIIdefinitionsofabuseandneglect3-09.pdf may be worth taking a look at
A good start might be the sections
B)2.12 Physical Abuse - Bizarre Discipline
D)2.4 Medical Neglect - Necessary Medical Care or Treatment
E)2.0 Mental Abuse -- Caretakers Actions or Omissions
Virginia Department of Social Services Hotline Numbers
Hotline Numbers
In Virginia: (800) 552-7096
Out-of-state: (804) 786-8536
Hearing-impaired: (800) 828-1120
Thanks for the research!!
Ditto. I hope the Carlbrook survivors have the courage to speak up, spread the word to their fellow grads. The deal with these investigations seems to be the state has no impetus to take action until kids start to make complaints.
Tim Brace told everyone about "sucking cock for crack" but only because he wanted to show how dark his life had gotten and if he could rise up, so could we. Still, it seemed like he would say it not just to bond with us but also partially for shock value...I don't know...he is definitely a used car salesman but I think he swallows his own bullshit, you know?
yes
Like I think he genuinely believes in what he does, and I'm not sure if that makes it better or worse. Scary to think about.
Well it definitely makes it more sad. I think most of these staff mean well. But on the other hand most of them have degrees in something else, don't have even a teaching credential or an MFT in counseling, and haven't been getting anything but the most minimal sort of continuing education. I think the way you can succeed in working in one of these programs without any training etc is very seductive. Suddenly these people are doing something that seems meaningful and they get to feel like an expert—they think they know better than the medical establishment, etc—and kids are hugging them and parents are thanking them and then there's all the BS about how they're "saving lives." To me it's terribly arrogant.
I have so much anger inside me right now towards Carlbrook. I'm just now starting to realize how horrifically manipulative it was...not just while I was there but NOW. I feel like my brain works differently now. I get so scared and anxious in random situations because I have this fear of...well, I'm not sure what I'm afraid of.
like you get up to take a leak in the middle of the night and you just get this disorderly feeling, like everything is a howling mess?
But it's the same crippling fear I felt at Carlbrook, of being "bad" or getting in trouble or having everything taken away. Carlbrook messed with my psychologically and I don't feel like that's ever going to go away. My therapist says the therapy that I got there created a need for more therapy to undo that therapy, ironically enough. He says I exhibit a lot of the same symptoms that his vets with PTSD do. I hate this, feeling like my mind's been violated. Were we really behaviorally modified? How can Carlbrook control me so much even when I'm not there? Help.
first few times i smoked pot after i got out i had terrible flashbacks. saw the staff's faces in my mind scolding me. evil imagos
Ears & lk I was glad to hear what yall had to say. Thanks.
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Just found this other Carlbrook thread http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=20531
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Speaking of Carlbrook, have any of you survivors checked out the recent fracas regarding Mount Batchelors. I'd be interested to know how similar Carlbrook's workshops are to LifeSteps, which MBA got in trouble for.
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Speaking of Carlbrook, have any of you survivors checked out the recent fracas regarding Mount Batchelors. I'd be interested to know how similar Carlbrook's workshops are to LifeSteps, which MBA got in trouble for.
I am a former Mount Bachelor Academy student. Judging by this (http://http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php?title=Carlbrook#Workshops), there is a lot of overlap. The first two sound more or less the same as MBA's.
At MBA we never had to do "the lifeboat exercise" or write our own obituaries.
To any former Carlbrook students, I am interested to hear anything you have to say about the isolation room.
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There was no "isolation room." We had Suspension, which was the redecorated Girl's Lounge, I think. Basically, it's a room with four columns of small metal school desks facing towards the wall. A larger office desk is in the back of the room; the securitas sits there and makes sure the kids follow the rules. Near the securitas' desk is a counter with cupboards underneath. Peanut butter, jelly, bread, chips, apples, and plastic silverware are kept in here (the kids aren't allowed to go out of the room for most meals). There's also a mini-fridge for leftover dinners.
In the Suspension Room, you're not allowed to turn around or look at anyone else. You're on bans with the whole school, including staff members (no talking/looking at/communicating with/acknowledging in any way the existence of anyone except for senior staff members that INITIATE contact with you - like if you're walking in line and Tim Brace says hi, you can say hi back but can't go any further (ie asking him how his day is going, etc.) unless he specifically asks you a question).
You are allowed to ask four questions a day: "May I go to the bathroom?" "May I get a cup of water?" "I have a medical emergency, can I go to the nurse/can you call an ambulance?" You need to raise your hand and wait to be called on to ask these questions (which can be annoying since the Securitas rarely look up from their desk and since you can't wave your arm around/turn around, you're just stuck there with your arm up for sometimes as much as 10 minutes).
You can't spend more than 3 minutes in the bathroom for bodily functions and 7 minutes if you're changing your clothes after recreation time.
Suspension is, as a result of a recent change, allowed to eat breakfast in the Dining Hall but they are segregated from the rest of the school and sit at tables on bans. They eat lunch and dinner in the Suspension room and get the gross leftovers that the rest of the school ate the night before.
Suspension is responsible for cleaning up after the rest of the school, especially on weekends. It's really humiliating. Basically, Suspension is the school's bitch.
You are not allowed to have any contact with anyone in the dorms. Like I said, you're on bans with the whole school all the time (except for one appointment per day) if you're in Out-of-School Suspension (OSS). You're on bans with the whole school except during school hours (8:00-3:15, excluding your lunch because you're back on bans/in suspension for lunch) if you're in In-School Suspension (ISS). Typically, an average Suspension student is on Pre-Animus bans but these can be lowered or raised depending on the severity of the behavior that landed you in suspension (someone who's is OSS for attempting to start a sex underground would probably be on Pre-Veneratio bans and opposite gender bans (depending on their sexuality) as well as Personal Bans with the people that he/she tried to start the underground with, whereas someone who's in ISS for being too hard on themselves and having low self-esteem might be put on less strict bans by their Adviser, maybe pre-Amicitia). Also, EVERYONE in suspension (ISS or OSS) is on bans with EVERYONE else in suspension and EVERYONE who is on an Action Plan (which is like Suspension Jr. You're generally on an Action Plan before and/or after you're in Suspension).
Suspension sucks. I know a few Securitas have quit because they think that Suspension is inhumane treatment. Honestly, yes, Suspension is degrading and infuriating and inconvenient and humiliating, but it's not abuse. It sucks. No one's denying that. Depending on the kid, it can help. But again, depending on the kid, anything can help. It's pretty much up to the kid. Suspension is awful but it is NOT - it is NOT - abuse. I feel like labeling Suspension as abusive is like accusing Tim Brace of pedophilia -- it's another flare being sent up to distract from the real issues. It's a lie and it's an exaggeration that undermines the REAL problems and the real things that Carlbrook graduates have the say.
I was in a mental hospital for a month of inpatient and a week of outpatient in 2005 (I was at Carlbrook 2007-2008). (Those two facts, along with everything else I have said so far, probably identify me to anyone who knew me there but whatever, I don't care.) There was a Quiet Room at the mental hospital. I saw kids get tasered and beaten and locked in there. I fell asleep to them screaming. It was the loneliest, most terrifying, most confusing time of my life. Comparing the Quiet Room to Suspension is ludicrous. Yeah, I'm not going to deny it, Suspension seriously fucks with your head. But there's no comparison between Suspension -- where there are PB&J sandwiches, heat, bathrooms, and a movie (albeit a lame educational one with a moral message like Rudy and Gandhi) every weekend -- and a Quiet Room -- where there's nothing but padded white walls, menacing orderlies clinking unlabeled pills in a pleated white paper cup, and a petrified, howling 13-year-old boy banging on the small window all through the night.
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Something that fucks with your head *IS* abuse. Sorry you don't see that.
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I find it absurd that anyone would think that being in complete silence forbidden to socialise or engage in any sort of stimulating activity for weeks on end is not abuse.
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What I meant by "not abuse" is that it couldn't be grounds for a lawsuit or anything, or at least not one that would be very fruitful.
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i went their and can say hands down this place should be shut down. Why because not only is it run by administrators who have worse problems then most the kids attending do(if you think this is wrong then follow the paper trail on people like Andy coe, tim brace, johnathan gerni, grant price)(Spelling??) ... but also their impact on the kids only hurts them in the long run. if you went their and found something that was good (you claim). i know that was not caused by carlbrook but an individuals ability to overcome.. the only way to explain this place is a jail that you dont have to worry about being physically raped in. (emotionally is different because almost everyday someone is mentally destroyed left feeling like they had just been raped) its a bad place that still gives me nightmares today and has only made problems much bigger and worse in the real world.. And i was not a fuck up or whatever you have it i have been claimed a success story but will not sit quietly and hide the real truth. :rasta: posting.php?mode=reply&f=9&t=8792# (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=reply&f=9&t=8792#)
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i went to carlbrook and i hated it, but i still don't agree with everything nomorecarlbrook said.
B) yeah, the staff have fucked-up life stories. but i'd trust someone more who was open about how they used to be on drugs/got molested/etc. than someone with a perfect life who never experienced pain. i'm not saying i think the staff did what was right in every situation, but i don't think we should condemn them for having messed-up backgrounds. (also, it's jonathan gurney not johnathan gerni.)
C) i agree that the good that comes from carlbrook is a result of personal perseverance and not the program.
D) please don't compare things to rape. it trivializes rape. i know i sound like a freak but it's just one of those things for me. it's one of my "issues" or whatever you want to call it. you weren't "emotionally raped." rape is when someone forces you to have sex with them. go here, it's interesting: http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/ ... think.html (http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2009/11/you-keep-using-that-word-i-do-not-think.html)
E) i understand what you're saying about the emotional repercussions, though. it affects me every day.
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I agree. It trivializes rape.
I also wish people wouldn't use "gay" as a derogatory term. I don't think you all mean to hurt others by saying that, but it's really hurtful to GLBTQ folks. There are enough painful topics and stories here without jabbing thoughtless insults.
Okay, that's my rant.
Auntie Em
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FUCK
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RED FUCK BOY GO HOME.
I guess this ass clown is hoping his posts get deleted so he can claim the forum is moderated and sue for damages. You are a desperate little sausage. The admins can always move your red fucks into another forum called "pricks on parade".
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yeah, i don't really get what fuck-boy is trying to do...i mean, congratulations, you can post a red word on a forum. great. hope you feel powerful and ~*ReBeLLiOuS*~
same about the gay thing. i've been trying to get myself out of the habit of saying "retarded" too.
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nomorecarlbrook is an idiot that can't spell
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Thx4 sharing judgemental Guest1. You and "FUCK" troll are special.
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Hi. I used to post on here frequently. There are so many things that I can say, butI worry that I will end up repeating myself. I also don't feel like wasting my time repeating everything I have said for new people to this forum. No offense of course because I'm actually glad that you're here. Well anyway, I've been posting since page 5 on this forum. I encourage everyone to read through what I have written.
Also: Since this forum has gotten pretty chaotic over the last few weeks, I though I might direct our topic on something else. How do former students/parents/other feel about the education at carlbrook. We talk a lot about the therapy side but never really mention the school side. I personally enjoyed school there (as you'll learn if you read my posts) but I didn't feel challenged. I also didn't like how the other kids took advantage of teachers and how therapy always was more important than school work. For example, I thought it was absurd that students could and many times interrupted a lesson to give out a crew to another student. I also felt better in school because I felt that teachers were the most "normal" people on campus. Furthermore, although many of the teachers were smart and very knowledgable in their field, many of them lacked the ability to teach. Lastly, I didn't like how education was always limited by another factor that was in my mind, less important. For example, I thought it was absurd that we couldn't use the internet for research. Instead, we were forced to use old and outdated books in the school's tiny library. My list goes on
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I enjoyed it but didn't feel challenged at all. The teachers were way too lenient. I mean, their leniency was convenient, haha, but not productive. Kids would blow off papers and the excuse "I'm going through a hard time" was accepted without question. This sounds really nice but it doesn't set them up for the real world or college, and usually it was a bullshit excuse anyway.
I didn't really see kids giving crews randomly in class. Usually, the teacher would go "[obnoxious student], stop." Obnoxious student wouldn't stop and the teacher would go, "That's a crew. Who here's on D-Comm that can crew him for me?" Kids would only give crews if the teachers asked them to or if the obnoxious student was doing something RIDICULOUS. I remember one time a new student gave the finger to a teacher. That kind of thing.
I was much, much closer to the teachers than the advisers/other staff on campus. Dena DeStefano Greene is an angel (I feel SO badly for the kids there now since she left...I seriously can NOT imagine keeping my sanity without Dena there). Foran is my hero, inspired me so much, believed in my writing when I didn't. Jonathan Gurney was the best, even though he kind of waffled between being a therapeutic staff member and a set-up-alumni-stuff guy (I loved him because he had perspective, he knew that the things we were doing like flirting or doubting the system were NORMAL and shouldn't be condemned, that the world outside of Carlbrook was going to be more important. He had a son who was sent away so he understood on so, so many levels). Elmes helped me out a lot. Doom before he got scary with me and other girls.Dean Visco was always a sweetheart and willing to listen and not judge. Malissa at the college office.
Not being able to research on the internet was ridiculous. They should have set it up college-office-style at least, with a few computers that had facebook/etc. blocked and adults to supervise us to make sure we weren't doing anything out-of-standard. I never got why we could research colleges but not medieval literature/etc.
I think the teachers saw how fucked up some of the things we had to go through were. Dena did especially. Foran, Ulrich, Tenzek, they all started wearing down at the end. I think being around that takes a toll on you. Maybe it was worse for them, you know? Students are soaked in the Carlbrook environment 24/7 so we grow to accept it, even embrace it, because it is literally ALL we know. Meanwhile, the teachers have to slip between two worlds, going between the insanity of Carlbrook to the normalcy of their homes. Maybe it made them feel crazy, or guilty, or...something. Advisers, too. The average time that an adviser stays is 3-5 years, right? After that, they just can't take it. Mindi was definitely starting to HATE Carlbrook by the time December graduation rolled around. She'd talk to me and a few other girls about how she saw through it and how fucked up it was. Maybe, in retrospect, she shouldn't have shared that with us, but it was illuminating.
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I can understand what you're saying Ik. For me, school was a major thing that helped me keep my sanity while I was there. Before I went to Carlbrook, I was an ideal student. Not only did I get straight A's, but I really appreciated and felt enthusiastic toward learning. The school I attended before Carlbrook was very rigorous and rated one of the best schools in the nation for years. On my way to Carlbrook from the woods, I tried to pacify my skeptical thoughts by asking questions to my guardian. At that time, I really wanted to go to Cornell University, so I kept asking if this new school would help me reach that goal. However, how could I have predicted that I would be reprimanded and yelled at in group for trying hard in school? In my first term there, I easily made Dean's List as well as received the acknowledgements from my teachers as an aberration to the typical Carlbrook student. I actually cared! I didn’t set a goal or anything; I just did what I usually did in school.
However, a majority of the people at Carlbrook (excluding teachers of course) grew very incredulous that I was truly different. For example, on the first day of my second semester, Dr. Bender (Dean of Academics) was calling out people that made Honor Roll and Dean’s List. At the end of the ceremony, the Assistant Dean of Admissions stated that one of the people standing (the people that were named) acquired a perfect 4.0 GPA and I was then awarded a round of applause. This was a bit unusual for me. I had always received these grades throughout my life because I always tried my hardest, just as I expected everyone else of doing. Anyway, after the meeting ended, Dr. Bender approached me and whispered in my ear, “Now that you’ve gotten this out of your system, I hope that you can focus more on the important stuff such as what goes on in group.” Even though I didn’t say anything, I felt infuriated. I truly believe that there was envy in that man’s eyes that day! Carlbrook was upset because unlike the other typical students who lacked ambition or were “heading down a bad path,” I was not only heading down a better path, but doing it without their stupid principles. During my stay at Carlbrook, I must’ve turned a lot of heads. I was never a fuck-up in life and never made any major bad decisions. The only reason I was there was because my guardian thought it would be a good idea for me to have therapy after both my parents died.
I really don’t care what anyone else has to say at this point. As far as I know, I suffered more than ANYONE else that went to Carlbrook. I never made my own problems but instead was forced to deal with the problems that life threw at me. I never needed therapy, I needed a better life! I hated being compared to these self-deprecating losers! If you know who I am at this point, so be it! I ultimately ran from Carlbrook once I turned 18. The only thing I regret about that decision is that I couldn’t think of something to get myself out of there sooner! After leaving Carlbrook, I began to carry out my dreams which were limited by Carlbrook. Instead of living everyday like a brainless puppet and believing everything my advisor told me, I was outside living the life that everyone else said was impossible.
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lk, Doom got creepy w/ me too! And w/ a few other girls in my graduating class. You think he's all nice until he starts hitting on you and making you uncomfortable! Like he'd tell me he couldn't live w/o me and that he loved me more than anyone in the world! Wtf! that's not okay in my book!!! My adviser put me on P-Bans w/ him but he would still try to break them! I'd be like uhhhh Doom I'm on bans. Soooo awkward...I felt sooooo unsafe w/ him.
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Mr. Paperclip,
Are you referring to Carlbrook grads in general as "self-deprecating losers?" Seriously? There are people who graduated from there who did pretty damn well with themselves....
I had the same experience at Carlbrook. There were some staff who truly got me through: Kalyn, Jonathan Gurney (He normally dealt with laidback guys and I was a rather dramatic girl--and somehow he put up with me, even after graduation. The man is an absolute saint and was basically my dad at Carlbrook), Mrs. Elmes, Melissa Peacock and Kirk in the advising office, Armando Cooper and Mitch. As I've written before though, I had a great academic record before Carlbrook. I graduated with over a 4.0 and was also frustrated when I had a major AP exam coming up and Julie decided to take my computer away (which I was using to study for the exam!) because I "hid behind it." I was incredibly frustrated when I could only use the small library. I think that's why I'm so in obsessed with my university's art and architecture library today.
I felt kind of used by Carlbrook when I applied to college. I applied to 22 schools, a ridiculous amount, and was pretty pushed by college advising to do that. I was the first kid in my family (I mean, my parents went to college, but that was decades ago) to go through the application process and I could have saved a lot of time and money. A lot of the schools I got into are now on their "acceptance" list and I think I'm still the only National Merit Finalist/Scholarship Recipient they have had. My dream had been to go to an Ivy League school since before I got sent away. Unfortunately, when you graduate straight from Carlbrook instead of getting to spend a year at a regular boarding school, that isn't possible. I still go to a school that regularly competes with Brown for placement on the U.S. News' list but sometimes I do wonder what if. Don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly grateful for Mrs. Elmes and her AP Art History classes as well as Mr. Foran's English classes. They really did try to push us and make our experience as normal as possible. But there's only so much the teachers can do. I really wish I'd been able to take classes from those teachers in a normal setting, where Carlbrook couldn't step in and get them to not challenge us--I enjoy being challenged academically. I missed that a lot at Carlbrook so I used to just read my art history text over and over in the program room. I'll be graduating with a 3.75 GPA from college in the spring, taking a year off, and then planning on getting my masters in what else, art history.
I guess what I'm trying to say is yes, the academics could be a lot better at Carlbrook. I got yelled at numerous times for "hiding behind schoolbooks" or "putting my work over emotional growth." But for me, doing well academically keeps me sane. Even today, if I'm doing bad emotionally, that thrill of getting accepted to a prestigious internship or handing in a well-researched paper makes some of the other struggles worth it. And unfortunately, a lot of the Carlbrook staff don't understand that.
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Some questions for anyone who wants to talk about Carlbrook
about the workshops:
Is there any role-playing? I mean, something where the staff assigns a character for you to act out?
In the Amicitia, how physical is the circle of exclusion?
Are there horeshoe-style groups where you only get "feedback"? How harsh does it get?
Are there exercise where you call yourself names? In which you call your parents names?
In the Animus, what's the "pillow fighting" about? What other bioenergetic exercises are there? Are you ever restrained under a sheet by the group? Do they do the one where you have to bite towel and pull on it?
They make you watch Requiem for a Dream, right? Other stuff? Under-age kids watching this?
about request group:
Do people get called names? Yelled at?
How harsh does the "feedback" get?
Are people ever supposed to yell out the floor?
about punishments in general
How often are you supposed to do honor lists? Just in workshops?
Do you ever have to do manual labor? If so what kind of work? For how long at a time? Only if you break a major rule, or...?
I'm going to post this on the other Carlbrook list too. Sorry for the repeat
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about the workshops:
Is there any role-playing? I mean, something where the staff assigns a character for you to act out?
Tons. I can't think of it all but there's a bit in every workshop and some in regular groups if you're in a Sally group or an Andy group. In Amicitia, you push people out of the circle of friendship. In Animus, you go to your own funeral/read your obituaries/die/get buried/rise from the dead/etc. You also have to act out your negative sculpture (you know, shooting yourself in the head, having your legs open like a whore, snorting coke, whatever your issue is). You also fight for a spot on the "lifeboats." In Teneo, you go from being born to turning into a rose or something weird like that the last day. Also in Teneo, you have to act out 3 of your "roles" and use people in your peer group as other characters. I can't remember the other bits.
In the Amicitia, how physical is the circle of exclusion?
I don't know about other people's experience but in mine it wasn't like kids were getting punched or anything. You know, you'd shove them out and stuff but everyone was pretty half-hearted about it. I don't know, those acting-it-out scenarios never "worked" for me.
Are there horeshoe-style groups where you only get "feedback"? How harsh does it get?
Yeah, in the first two workshops. Integritas is the harshest probably. You get "monster," "victim," "pathetic," "worthless," "unlovable," "disgusting," etc written on a card and taped on your shirt. I've heard some really fucked-up feedback in those circles...I'm trying to think of the worst..."cum-dumpster," "n****r-lover," etc...or people just bringing up other people's disclosures and using them against them.
Are there exercise where you call yourself names? In which you call your parents names?
I think you kind of call yourself names the whole time with your negative statements, lies, etc. You yell at your parents (aka the floor) in Integritas. You hit/yell at/rage against your parents (aka pillows) in Veneratio.
In the Animus, what's the "pillow fighting" about? What other bioenergetic exercises are there? Are you ever restrained under a sheet by the group? Do they do the one where you have to bite towel and pull on it?
Raise arms over head, brings hands down on pillow and sort of make it an entire-body type of exercise. Yell. Fight Night in Teneo is the one where you pull on the towel and scream and push against your peers. No biting though. Can't remember the other bioenergetics.
They make you watch Requiem for a Dream, right? Other stuff? Under-age kids watching this?
You watch like the last 10 minutes of RFAD in Veneratio. Most kids are 18 by the time they graduate but some aren't. I heard they recently got rid of that part though because word got out and they didn't want to get in trouble. It was a pretty horrifying 10 minutes...double-headed dildoes assfucking Jennifer Connelly, shock treatment on the old woman...revolting. It was effective, though.
about request group:
Do people get called names? Yelled at?
Not random named. Like you can't call someone an asshole - it has to be "you're ACTING LIKE an asshole." People do get railed a lot though by staff and peers. Sometimes it's in a constructive way, like you can tell they're yelling because they care but sometimes it's just spiteful, angry bullshit.
How harsh does the "feedback" get?
Very. There's really no other way to say that. Very, very, very harsh.
Are people ever supposed to yell out the floor?
All the time. It's called "running anger."
about punishments in general
How often are you supposed to do honor lists? Just in workshops?
In workshops, before workshops, in suspension, on action plans, if your adviser suspects you've done something bad.
Do you ever have to do manual labor? If so what kind of work? For how long at a time? Only if you break a major rule, or...?
Out-of-school suspensioners work with the maintenance crew - gardening, mowing, digging up tree stumps, raking, etc. And of course everyone cleans. Everyone is always effing cleaning. Wake up, clean your dorm, clean your mod. Before you go to sleep, clean your dorm. After dinner, crews either run jugs (deliver water jugs to various locations around campus while carrying them on their backs and running), cleaning the dining hall/kitchen, or running/cleaning the Commons. You get a crew or multiple crews for minor infractions (didn't wear a belt, bra strap showing, messy dorm, disrespect, cutting across the grass, swearing, spitting without asking, leaving a personal item unattended, late homework, talking back to a staff, etc.). Suspension is for more serious things (lying, cheating, etc.) or if you need "time alone to work on your emotions" or whatever.
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And no, we were never restrained by the group with a sheet. The workshops sucked but I don't think they crossed a line. I mean...ugh, it's complicated. I think so much of what went on in there was unnecessary and sometimes damaging but I don't think they did anything ABUSIVE, you know? Like, nothing that was illegal or crazy like those psycho therapists that stage fake birth canals and accidentally smother the kids (does anyone remember that case from a few years ago?).
I think the problem with workshops is that they're scripted. They're not individualized for the specific kids in the specific workshop. It's like manufacturing 20 extra-large t-shirts for 20 kids. You need to make them extra-large because the kids are all different sizes and this way, every kid will at least have clothing on his back even if he or she is swimming in fabric. It's better than to have a kid not be able to fit in the t-shirt, right? So everyone's wearing these extra-large t-shirts. For some kids, the t-shirts fit fine. For others, it's a little uncomfortable, you know, baggy and annoying but okay. For some, it goes down to their knees and when they go outside, it doesn't protect them from the sun and they have this awful weird-shaped sunburn because of the way the shirt fits and...okay. Never mind. This metaphor sucks. Sorry about this, guys.
But basically, they're doing a one-size-fits-all workshop when they need to think about what is going to work FOR and WITH the kids in the workshop. They need to spend more time making 20 different t-shirts in the right size for the right kid. The problem with the workshops is that they do EVERYTHING. They know that some kids are visual learners/experiential learners/etc. So they need to reach each kid. So they throw in some acting-it-out exercises, some bioenergetic exercises, some visualizations, some feedback circles, some written-out tools, some lectures, some writing assignments...basically throwing in everything and the kitchen sink because they know that everything won't affect everyone but SOMETHING will affect EVERYONE, you know? So they need to cover all of their bases.
The problem is that the kids don't know this. They think they're supposed to "get" EVERYTHING. So when they can't connect with something, they think something's wrong with them and fake it and feel like shit. Or, worse, they try to FORCE themselves to do it, to feel it, and end up breaking themselves a little bit. Or the staff try to force it and break something. It's just bad.
Sorry, I sound like an idiot. But hopefully you get what I'm saying.
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I graduated from Carlbrook School in 2003. I have recently been in conversation with a close friend who's 16 year old sister is heading down the same road as I was- one whose focus was not on embettering my life or finishing HS but rather pushing the limits of society and authority. With most other disciplinary options tried and failed they were looking for anything more that could help. This forced me to again personally reflect on my Carlbrook experience, but to do so with added views of the parents and siblings throughout the process.
Initially being sent to wilderness schools and later Carlbrook felt like punishment- how could it not? My parents were taking me out of my "comfortable" environment and I had no control over the matter. Both of these were devastating. I lost my "freedom" to do what I wanted and was forced to go to groups and have all aspects of my life and behavior judged and critiqued. It was next to impossible to even consider the effort and energy that my friends, family, schools and ed consultants were expelling during this limbo period in order to get my life on the right track. For years, I harbored anger, hate and disdain towards many of decisions that my parents made in attempts to steer me in the right direction, but now am beginning to see that they did all they did out of concern and love.
The academics and extracurricular activities at the school could have been better, but at the time I was there the program was still growing. I am amazed to see the additions of many new classes and activities that I could have only dreamed of! A program like Carlbrook is not going to have everything that a prep school or boarding school can offer obviously- we were sent there to focus on ourselves and deeper issues that we did not wish to address- not necessarily academics or extracurriculars, though those do have a place in one's personal development.
As for the advisors- I believe whole heartedly that they wanted what was best for each of us. Some of what they said and did still confuses me to this day, but I do not think it was done with malice. I was a stubborn, selfish girl with no regard to how my actions were affecting those around me. I did not want to hear criticism from others for whom I had deemed worthy of little respect. I was a teenager. Isn't the whole philosophy behind Carlbrook to "serve the needs of bright, underachieving students who have historically challenged convention and questioned authority"? The advisors forced us to the address deeper issues behind our destructive behaviors- which I think very few people ever wish to confront and which many never do. As awkward and uncomfortable as some of the groups and workshops were they this way for this purpose.
The other students were often more negative than the advisors. Although you cannot directly call someone names or yell at you- a lot of times the criticism is not controlled and can become manifestations of others' judgements, spite and anger. However, I don't find this to be much different from human behavior outside of Carlbrook...
Carlbrook is not a quick fix. I did not go into the program and magically pop out squeaky clean and "cured". The school was a rest stop along life's path that got me to slow down and stop to think. My years there taught and reinforced tools that I was able to take with me as I assimilated into adulthood- ways to deal with others and how my actions are affecting others, more positive ways to think, self-reflection, honesty and forgiveness. Life after Carlbrook on my own was in some ways a more valuable learning experience than the school itself because I was truly responsible for myself and the decisions I made. I no longer had to abide by rules and "standards" of Carlbrook, but rather the rules and "standards" of life itself. I have made my fair share of mistakes along the way and have to live with them- that's the way life is.
I have great respect for the work and time that the advisors and teachers devoted to helping me get on my feet and improving my life. I would not be where I am if Sally M. or Jonathan G. had not pushed me to the deepest and darkest parts of my past and then helped me get back out. I may not have addressed issues without Grant P's hardballing attitude and Andy C's shear honesty pushing my buttons. I might not have gone to the college I chose if Dr. Bender and Justin M. had not pushed me academically to excel. And I may not have seen the beauty in little things in life had I not heard Tim B's passionate rants and realize the hope they inspired.
I understand that not everyone who attended to Carlbrook will view their experience the way I do, but I hope and wish that eventually from all the negativity and criticism towards the school these students can find something positive and beneficial about the experience. Be it the friends you made, fun times you had, Mr. Foran's cynicism, the food...something.
If anyone has serious questions or wants to talk further post a reply and I can send you an email. I hope this helps.
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I graduated from Carlbrook School in 2003. I have recently been in conversation with a close friend who's 16 year old sister is heading down the same road as I was- one whose focus was not on embettering my life or finishing HS but rather pushing the limits of society and authority. With most other disciplinary options tried and failed they were looking for anything more that could help. This forced me to again personally reflect on my Carlbrook experience, but to do so with added views of the parents and siblings throughout the process.
Initially being sent to wilderness schools and later Carlbrook felt like punishment- how could it not? My parents were taking me out of my "comfortable" environment and I had no control over the matter. Both of these were devastating. I lost my "freedom" to do what I wanted and was forced to go to groups and have all aspects of my life and behavior judged and critiqued. It was next to impossible to even consider the effort and energy that my friends, family, schools and ed consultants were expelling during this limbo period in order to get my life on the right track. For years, I harbored anger, hate and disdain towards many of decisions that my parents made in attempts to steer me in the right direction, but now am beginning to see that they did all they did out of concern and love.
The academics and extracurricular activities at the school could have been better, but at the time I was there the program was still growing. I am amazed to see the additions of many new classes and activities that I could have only dreamed of! A program like Carlbrook is not going to have everything that a prep school or boarding school can offer obviously- we were sent there to focus on ourselves and deeper issues that we did not wish to address- not necessarily academics or extracurriculars, though those do have a place in one's personal development.
As for the advisors- I believe whole heartedly that they wanted what was best for each of us. Some of what they said and did still confuses me to this day, but I do not think it was done with malice. I was a stubborn, selfish girl with no regard to how my actions were affecting those around me. I did not want to hear criticism from others for whom I had deemed worthy of little respect. I was a teenager. Isn't the whole philosophy behind Carlbrook to "serve the needs of bright, underachieving students who have historically challenged convention and questioned authority"? The advisors forced us to the address deeper issues behind our destructive behaviors- which I think very few people ever wish to confront and which many never do. As awkward and uncomfortable as some of the groups and workshops were they this way for this purpose.
The other students were often more negative than the advisors. Although you cannot directly call someone names or yell at you- a lot of times the criticism is not controlled and can become manifestations of others' judgements, spite and anger. However, I don't find this to be much different from human behavior outside of Carlbrook...
Carlbrook is not a quick fix. I did not go into the program and magically pop out squeaky clean and "cured". The school was a rest stop along life's path that got me to slow down and stop to think. My years there taught and reinforced tools that I was able to take with me as I assimilated into adulthood- ways to deal with others and how my actions are affecting others, more positive ways to think, self-reflection, honesty and forgiveness. Life after Carlbrook on my own was in some ways a more valuable learning experience than the school itself because I was truly responsible for myself and the decisions I made. I no longer had to abide by rules and "standards" of Carlbrook, but rather the rules and "standards" of life itself. I have made my fair share of mistakes along the way and have to live with them- that's the way life is.
I have great respect for the work and time that the advisors and teachers devoted to helping me get on my feet and improving my life. I would not be where I am if Sally M. or Jonathan G. had not pushed me to the deepest and darkest parts of my past and then helped me get back out. I may not have addressed issues without Grant P's hardballing attitude and Andy C's shear honesty pushing my buttons. I might not have gone to the college I chose if Dr. Bender and Justin M. had not pushed me academically to excel. And I may not have seen the beauty in little things in life had I not heard Tim B's passionate rants and realize the hope they inspired.
I understand that not everyone who attended to Carlbrook will view their experience the way I do, but I hope and wish that eventually from all the negativity and criticism towards the school these students can find something positive and beneficial about the experience. Be it the friends you made, fun times you had, Mr. Foran's cynicism, the food...something.
If anyone has serious questions or wants to talk further post a reply and I can send you an email. I hope this helps.
In Animus what Sally Martin did was essentially take a shit on my chest. I was called boring and unconvincing because I wasn't having an emotional breakdown fed by "deep" Switchfoot songs and activities where students are forced to scream as loudly as they can in each others' faces (they choose best friends to do it together).
She's gone now and I was stoked when she left.
I sat down with Tim Brace before the final workshop and he halfway expected me to interrogate him on his past. Instead, I passively let him know that if the same shit happened again (aka forced manipulative outward emotion) in Veneratio I would probably walk out. Bulbous blue eyes gleaming, he told me to
"just go along with the process."
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If you want to talk to Tim directly or maybe send a xmas card to let him know how you feel
Tim Brace (434) 476-2779 1120 Hummingbird Ln, South Boston, VA 24592
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If you want to talk to Tim directly or maybe send a xmas card to let him know how you feel
Tim Brace (434) 476-2779 1120 Hummingbird Ln, South Boston, VA 24592
I got an idea for a christmas card to Tim Brace...
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Dear potential child molester,
Thanks for ruining almost two years of my life. Go listen to some loud music and cry your tears away with teenagers who think you're a pedophile. No matter how many b.s. speeches you give or how many ties you put on, you'll always be a pathetic drug addict in my mind. Enjoy brainwashing people, causing extreme mental trauma to undeserving teenagers, and making a shit load of money off of people's ignorance. Have fun dressing up in suits with the other pathetic losers you call founders and living in a completely idiotic illusion. Do us all a favor. just because you're a failure in life doesn't mean that you need to bring down other people as well. The only kindness you receive is not even sympathy, its pity.
Merry fucking christmas,
Someone you used to say you love
P.S. Maybe this Christmas, you'll give the greatest gift of all and admit that you're full of shit.
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Anyone think he'll read this during a morninig meeting?
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I don't care what your opinion about Tim Brace is , giving out his personal information is NOT OKAY.
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I don't care what your opinion about Tim Brace is , giving out his personal information is NOT OKAY.
Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with you.
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I don't care what your opinion about Tim Brace is , giving out his personal information is NOT OKAY.
Why not?
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If you want to talk to Tim directly or maybe send a xmas card to let him know how you feel
Tim Brace (434) 476-2779 1120 Hummingbird Ln, South Boston, VA 24592
I got an idea for a christmas card to Tim Brace...
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Dear potential child molester,
Thanks for ruining almost two years of my life. Go listen to some loud music and cry your tears away with teenagers who think you're a pedophile. No matter how many b.s. speeches you give or how many ties you put on, you'll always be a pathetic drug addict in my mind. Enjoy brainwashing people, causing extreme mental trauma to undeserving teenagers, and making a shit load of money off of people's ignorance. Have fun dressing up in suits with the other pathetic losers you call founders and living in a completely idiotic illusion. Do us all a favor. just because you're a failure in life doesn't mean that you need to bring down other people as well. The only kindness you receive is not even sympathy, its pity.
Merry fucking christmas,
Someone you used to say you love
P.S. Maybe this Christmas, you'll give the greatest gift of all and admit that you're full of shit.
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Anyone think he'll read this during a morninig meeting?
Some survivors report that Carlbrook is an extra-judicial prison.
If this is true, what methods were used to keep you from escaping?
EG, were you watched by "students" who served as guards who were charged with sounding an alarm if you tried to leave? Was extra time added to your sentence of internment if you tried to escape?
Were you held prisoner by means of physical violence or threat of physical violence?
Were there alarms set and doors locked that trapped you?
Were you rendited to a forced march aka "wilderness therapy" program if you ran and were caught? What methods did the "wilderness therapy" program use to prevent you from escaping?
To former prisoners who are not brainwashed: please contact ISAC or HEAL about your experience. Carlbrook should be reported to CPS, the police, DHHS. If you don't speak up for yourself and Carlbrook victims, no one else can
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hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh wrote:
I don't care what your opinion about Tim Brace is , giving out his personal information is NOT OKAY.
Why not?
Because it's not just him living in that house, it's his wife and his extended family visits sometimes too. I'd hate for someone to go and harass them all. Writing a letter or expressing your view is fine, it's honorable to stand up for what you believe in, but I wouldn't egging his house or calling them in the middle of the night or anything.
In happier news...congrats to Sigma/Rho/Tau, December '09 grads! They graduated today at 3:00 pm.
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I don't care what your opinion about Tim Brace is , giving out his personal information is NOT OKAY.
lk, we elves would agree with you, but he's the one who gave it out. he's listed.
http://www.google.com/search?q=tim+brac ... =firefox-a (http://www.google.com/search?q=tim+brace+virginia&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a)
also i agree with you
Writing a letter or expressing your view is fine, it's honorable to stand up for what you believe in, but I wouldn't egging his house or calling them in the middle of the night or anything.
vandalism and harassment are illegal but giving out someone's address and sending that person a letter are not.
"the harder the truth to tell the truer the friend who tells it," they say. by Tim Brace's own definition, anyone who writes him and tells him that what he does is abuse is his really good friend.
speaking of. lk i've wanted to respond to some of your posts here sooner: i appreciate the speaking out you have done on these boards. i understand what a confusing position you must be in. with my experiences and thinkng about the program that i suffered, it has been very hard for me to make sense of the staff who i think of as good and caring and things they did that i have come to understand as abuse.
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I don't abuse.
You go elf!!
By the way. How long do you think its going to take for the new December grads to find this forum? In a very big way, I feel bad for them. Even though what they survived was challenging, none of the benefits that they were promised are going to come true. It is very sad but I can empathize. It is not every day that you are told everything you lived through for the last 2 years has a foundation of lies and b.s. But I will never tell anyone that survives one of these places that everything they did was worthless, because it wasn't. If they didn't put in all that effort, then they wouldn't be here to even read this.
But to all the Carlbrook graduates who have recently graduated or the ones that are just starting to see this stuff, I have a message: It's ok. You're free. You will never be forced to go back there ever again. Carlbrook no longer has anything that they can hold against you such as suspension, action plans, a delayed graduation, crews, or any other pointless and undeserving cruelties. I'm not trying to pressure anyone into feeling anything, but if you do feel in any way that you were cheated in one way or another, let those feelings rise to the surface. You are not alone.
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lk, Thanks for speaking up.
Are there horeshoe-style groups where you only get "feedback"? How harsh does it get?
Yeah, in the first two workshops. Integritas is the harshest probably. You get "monster," "victim," "pathetic," "worthless," "unlovable," "disgusting," etc written on a card and taped on your shirt. I've heard some really fucked-up feedback in those circles...I'm trying to think of the worst..."cum-dumpster," "n****r-lover," etc...or people just bringing up other people's disclosures and using them against them.
When they used my disclosures against me, at the time, that was the worst part for me. Now I understand that was a really disturbed violation of my trust. To use a patient's issues against him, as a form of power over him—a therapist could lose his license for something like that. It's a betrayal and abuse. And to do it in front of a group, that's public humiliation. Even at the time--when I was a kid and I thought it was all some kind of therapy and I was full of love for those staff--those moments felt terribly wrong. After the workshops they would nag at me for months. And rightfully so. Once or twice I brought it up and what they shamed me for it. They said I was "in my shit," using some small thing to "take away from the experience," "sabotaging". One of a hundred painful memories of how I wasn't allowed to have boundaries there, how I had no voice.
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Thank you to everyone who thanked me...at the beginning of last summer, my ex showed me this site (he's went to Carlbrook too). I initially posted a reply to some outside person who had a question about Carlbrook. I didn't expect to come back to this site. Now, I check it at least a few times a week. It sounds stupid to have a website be important to you but whatever. I'm trying to sort out what happened there and this site (and the people on it) have been instrumental in doing that. So thank you to everyone. Please keep writing on this site. It helps more than you know.
To use a patient's issues against him, as a form of power over him—a therapist could lose his license for something like that. It's a betrayal and abuse. And to do it in front of a group, that's public humiliation.
I feel like phrases like that get thrown around a lot here -- "lose their licenses," "abuse," etc. I'm not denying the emotional manipulations or how it fucked us up but I'm interested to know what exactly went on in LEGAL terms. Could a therapist actually lose his or her license over what went down at Carlbrook? Could anyone ACTUALLY be prosecuted for child abuse? It's one thing to go, "we had to sit in Suspension for weeks, it sucked" or "how messed up was Animus?" but was any of it illegal? Yes, they violated our trust. Yes, it was manipulative. But was any of it actually illegal?
I feel like Carlbrook must be very careful about not breaking any laws. My mom told me this a few months ago: When I first started at Carlbrook (I couldn't have been more than a post-Integ @ this point), she had a bunch of Carlbrook parents from the area over for dinner and Tim Brace and a member of the transition staff came too. Tim kept selling Carlbrook and my mom went, "Well, I mean, it's basically just a cult, right?" (she didn't mean it in an attacking way, just an honest, half-joking way) and Tim pushes his seat back from the table and gets flustered and defensive and keeps saying no no no it's not at all and then in the end he admits that Carlbrook used many cult-like practices but they have to be very careful about saying the word "cult" because of some formal state statutes because they'd get in trouble.
I love Tim Brace. I think he's a loving father figure who genuinely means well. Do I think he's perfect? Of course not. I think he's had a really tough life; I think he's been dealt some really unfair cards. However, I think he's risen above any "sob story" he could have used as an excuse and worked extremely hard to help people in pain. I love the man with my whole heart but I'm not naive enough to not see his flaws: I think he's needy. I don't understand the pathological need he has for everyone to love him. I resent him for only stepping in to play the "good guy" part (he got to be all nice and understanding but that was only because he didn't have the responsibilities that the advisers did to punish/regulate/whatever us -- it made me mad how he'd agree with me that XYZ wasn't fair but then wouldn't do anything to stop/prevent XYZ).
But, at the end of the day, I think he believed in what he was doing. I love him for that. Do I agree with everything he did? No, I don't support the system that he supports. But I can't fault him for it. He sincerely loves every kid that walks in the doors of the Commons. He honestly thinks that what he is doing is right. Some of it is in my eyes, some of it isn't. But I would rather have someone like Tim than someone like Denise Prendergast or Nathan Webber who seemed sadistic and stupid and inappropriate and petty and mean who I think manipulated the system and used their power to fuck with kids and play favorites. Also, Tim is receptive.
When I went back for Veneratio, I was able to sit down with him and say, "Tim, X was really messed up. Y really hurt me. You should change Z. You're hurting kids by doing XYZ." I expected him to tell me to get out because I would poison the kids' workshop or something but instead, he just held me and hugged me and apologized. He said, "I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. None of this was ever meant to hurt you. All we wanted to do was love you and help you." For most of the Veneratio breaks, Tim and I sat in a corner with another girl talking about the parts of Carlbrook that we wanted to change and that had hurt us. He explained to us the reasoning behind the parts that had fucked with us. He listened when we told him how things should be done. I seriously believe that he heard us. Some things have changed at Carlbrook. Not a lot, but some.
Speaking of which...I had my last Transition Call the other day. I was ranting to my transition adviser about the confusion I feel towards Carlbrook -- how I love it so much but hate it at the same time, do I have Stockholm Syndrome, do I have PTSD, did Carlbrook hurt more than it helped, this part of it was so unforgivably hurtful, I still have bad dreams about that part, you should tell the kids this at the beginning, you need to individualize the process more, etc. She told me that she wanted me to write down a list of all the problems that I have about Carlbrook, all the feedback I have for the staff, all the ways I want it to change, and they'd go over it in a Board Meeting. So do you guys have anything you want to add to the list? Please let me know.
For the record, the Board is Tim Brace, Grant Price, Justin Merritt, Andy Coe, Kelly Dunbar, John Henson, Dr. Bender, Jonathan Gurney, and Gillan. I trust Jonathan Gurney and Dr. Bender completely. Tim and Andy I love so much but I can also see their flaws -- Tim is more accepting of criticism than Andy is but I think they're both good people who would listen to our complaints. Kelly, John, Justin, and Grant are too far removed from the therapy process to take any of our feedback personally. My feelings for Gillan are complicated...I hate his assistant dean, Greta. I think his approach to therapy is completely WRONG (totally clinical, very detached, all about pills and diagnoses rather than feelings). But he saved my best friend's life and he seems like he would see feedback/criticism as interesting rather than an attack. Sooo...I think the Board would be the best group of people to go to in this situation. Also, we can present direct criticism towards specific advisers since they won't be in this meeting.
(I just realized how completely obvious it is who I am now that I said all of this. Oh well. I don't really care.)
Sorry for the really long post, guys...in summary: Are any of the things they do to us @ Carlbrook actually ILLEGAL? What can therapists actually lose their licenses for (other than sex with patients/ignoring suicidal threats)? Give me any criticism/feedback you have for Carlbrook staff so I can give it to the Board.
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Lk,
Thanks for sharing your story and your perspectives on your experiences.
Without knowing the full details about everything that happened at Carlbrook, but understanding the basis for some of the workshops, here is the complicated answer:
In the state of Virginia, because of the way that Carlbrook sells itself as a "boarding school for underachieving students" and not a "therapeutic boarding school" such as Little Keswick, they are not licensed in the state of Virginia.
Arguably, you could go to the Commonwealth of Virginia Interdepartmental Regulation of Children's Residential Facilities and claim that Carlbrook is in violation of State law by providing therapeutic services without being licensed.
http://www.dss.virginia.gov/sample/faci ... facts.html (http://www.dss.virginia.gov/sample/facility/licensed_cr_facts.html)
What the psychologists themselves do may not be violative of any laws, but they certainly may be violative of professional ethics and could be the basis for revocation of their professional license. I'm not a lawyer and do not know the laws that pertain in this situation.
What is indisputable that in the State of Oregon, Mount Bachelor Academy, a program that used many of the same kind of "therapeutic techniques" as Carlbrook, those therapeutic techniques were found to be in violation of Oregon licensing standards. I suspect that they would be at Carlbrook too if they were appropriately licensed.
The short answer is:
That Carlbrook uses these "therapeutic techniques" on the youth that they work with, and they have failed to obtain a license, they should be in violation of Virginia law. Whether you go to that website, and press a complaint and the authorities enforce that law is another story.
As for Tim Brace, he sounds a lot like that Bill Hoffman character. Check out some of Hoffman's facebook posts when things got hot and heavy, and he couldn't play the nice guy anymore.
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Blombrowski, thanks for your insight.
Some background on Tim Brace. He was the headmaster/director of Mt Bachelor Academy before Sharon Bitz. He was kind of a company shill, Aspen brought him in when they had their big falling out with Linda Houghton, the school's founder. (This falling out was, I've been told, in part over giving Educational Consultants referral fees: Linda supposedly didn't believe in it--even though, as I understand it, she wasn't opposed to rewarding educational consultants in other ways, or allowing them to both invest in the school and give refer partents to it.) Brace was, I believe, at RMA immediately before MBA.
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I'm still trying to figure out who you are lk. I'm not sure if I knew you or not, but its seems you attended Carlbrook within the last 2 years. I have reached the point where talking even more about my complaints is going to be detrimental to me. It is kind of like when you break your leg, yet you continue to touch it. The first couple touches are needed in order to determine the severity, but after awhile, it becomes painful. Therefore, I encourage you to look back at my posts. Unlike you, I'm not that great at condensing my experience which can explain for my long posts. Even if it becomes painfully boring to read, I urge you to continue reading. My situation was very unique. I have recently reached the point with the people responsible for sending me there (not my parents) that it was a mistake. However, I blame Carlbrook more than them because if they had any form of professionalism, then they would have realized it wasn't right for me and let me leave. Instead, people like Kimberly, Dr. Bender, Denise, and many others tried very hard to convince me that I NEEDED carlbrook to survive. Even though I wanted to leave, their manipulation worked on me for awhile. When my 18th birthday came around, I had already formulated my escape plan. Stupidly, I cancelled all arrangements because I thought my life would be horrible if I left. However, my will power remained strong enough that I retained my moral code (which is much better than any of those standards they came up with!) and left anyway.
I now realize that if I did stay there, I would be extremely worse off. My academic dreams, life experience, and healthy uninterruped natural mental maturing would alll be thrown away. In my month at Carlbrook, I told people I was bored. I said that I knew what I needed to do thanks to some knowledge which i acquired during my time away (learned more about myself, by myself), and the only thing left to do is test try it. That was immediatley laughed at saying that if a post-teneo person isn't ready, how could a pre-integ? That's all I was to them. Everyone was the same. Everyone was forced to aim towards the same goal. If you cried out for your individualism, you were punished. If there was anything I learned during my year away against my will, it was that respect needs to be given to the "self." It is our identities which keep us strong, make us different, and drive our passions...
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You'd only know me if you were still there in August 2007.
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yo fucker that calls himself paperclip donnt bash on the shit that actually fuckin helped u, u went there cause u couldnt handle ur dads death, it really fuckin sux that u would spit spit in the face of ur big brither the day u left, thinking you were so fucking smart, yea u got a 4.o so wat, u know my animus flower is stuffed with ur 4.0 bitch, the only reason u fuckin bash on carlbrook is because u were too much of a fuckin pussy and thought that you couldnt do it and that scared the fuckin shit out ouf you, so fuckin get honest and tell shit the way it actually is and for anyone else bashing on carlbrook, if you didnt get wat u needed out of it i guess that fuckin sux for you, but i did and i know alot of people who did and i am in no way a fuckin carlbrook poster child but get ur shit shit fuckers and if your gonna talk sit about people say it to their fuckin face. so carlbrook haters and liers, FUCK YALL!!!
I am Honest and Responsible- Anonymous
Sigma, Dec '09
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I got an idea for a christmas card to Tim Brace...
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Dear potential child molester,
Thanks for ruining almost two years of my life. Go listen to some loud music and cry your tears away with teenagers who think you're a pedophile. No matter how many b.s. speeches you give or how many ties you put on, you'll always be a pathetic drug addict in my mind. Enjoy brainwashing people, causing extreme mental trauma to undeserving teenagers, and making a shit load of money off of people's ignorance. Have fun dressing up in suits with the other pathetic losers you call founders and living in a completely idiotic illusion. Do us all a favor. just because you're a failure in life doesn't mean that you need to bring down other people as well. The only kindness you receive is not even sympathy, its pity.
Merry fucking christmas,
Someone you used to say you love
P.S. Maybe this Christmas, you'll give the greatest gift of all and admit that you're full of shit.
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Anyone think he'll read this during a morninig meeting?
Guest - you are THE SHIT. I have to say, I agree with you so much. Don't know who you are or if I was with you at Cbk - but goddamn, couldn't have said it better myself.
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lk, Doom got creepy w/ me too! And w/ a few other girls in my graduating class. You think he's all nice until he starts hitting on you and making you uncomfortable! Like he'd tell me he couldn't live w/o me and that he loved me more than anyone in the world! Wtf! that's not okay in my book!!! My adviser put me on P-Bans w/ him but he would still try to break them! I'd be like uhhhh Doom I'm on bans. Soooo awkward...I felt sooooo unsafe w/ him.
That's just ridiculous. He's a wonderful guy and a good friend. He cares, unlike the majority of the staff at the school.
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lk, Doom got creepy w/ me too! And w/ a few other girls in my graduating class. You think he's all nice until he starts hitting on you and making you uncomfortable! Like he'd tell me he couldn't live w/o me and that he loved me more than anyone in the world! Wtf! that's not okay in my book!!! My adviser put me on P-Bans w/ him but he would still try to break them! I'd be like uhhhh Doom I'm on bans. Soooo awkward...I felt sooooo unsafe w/ him.
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the only reason u fuckin bash on carlbrook is because u... thought that you couldnt do it and that scared the fuckin shit out ouf you,
I don't know either of you but I think it's messed up if what's going on in a progrgam is "scaring the fucking shit" out of kids--Mr. Paperclip or wats right or anyone. There's a big difference between testing your limits/pushing yourself and having someone pressure/coerce you. Especially when you're a kid or adolescent and the person pressuring is an adult or a caretaker or role model, I'm under the impression that kind of stress can be really unhealthy and-- depending on the kid, his or her past and all that--sometimes damaging.
And wats right, you can name call and make personal attacks all you want, it's not going to make anyone think more of your opinion or your school. I can imagine there's more to you than that one post and that you probably care about the people at Carlbrook a lot. But reading your post as an outsider what it tells me is that Carlbrook just graduated a barely literate bully.
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But reading your post as an outsider what it tells me is that Carlbrook just graduated a barely literate bully.
We're not all so dim-witted John Henry. It is amazing to me, though, the amount of kids who "qualify" for the school IQ wise (yes, they test our IQ's before admitting us) who don't know how to spell or form sentences. It's embarrassing, really.
"wats right" - your "animus flower" isn't going to get you into college - and neither is your grammar. As I just said, you are an embarrassment. Continue following your shepherd with the rest of your sheep-family. The black sheep are forming our own community. And unless you're willing to listen, you're not welcome as far as I'm concerned.
You're going to wake up one day. I understand that you just graduated and haven't looked objectively at what you just experienced yet, but insulting a group of people who could potentially wind up supporting you is just a silly idea.
Good luck "holding people in standard" out here in the "real world." People aren't going to take you very seriously.
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lk, Doom got creepy w/ me too! And w/ a few other girls in my graduating class. You think he's all nice until he starts hitting on you and making you uncomfortable! Like he'd tell me he couldn't live w/o me and that he loved me more than anyone in the world! Wtf! that's not okay in my book!!! My adviser put me on P-Bans w/ him but he would still try to break them! I'd be like uhhhh Doom I'm on bans. Soooo awkward...I felt sooooo unsafe w/ him.
and nice use of the carlbrook lingo "cbk student"
unsafe? really? can we not detach ourselves from this bullshit? if you're going to sit around and bitch about the bs carlbrook put us through, why don't you woman up and start using "grown-up" words?
She’s relating her experience in her own way. Who are you to tell her how to do that? Loaded Language (http://http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html)
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She’s relating her experience in her own way. Who are you to tell her how to do that? Loaded Language (http://http://www.rickross.com/reference/brainwashing/brainwashing19.html)
She's bashing a very good friend of mine and supporting Carlbrook lingo in the process. What's wrong with pointing out why I think it's distasteful, not to mention it being in support of the school that she is so eager to tear to pieces?
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Tim Brace was originally at CEDU, a school founded and based on the Synanon, EST and LIfeSpring Cults. He then went to the other CEDU school called RMA in Bonners Ferry, Idaho. I was at RMA during his time there as the director. The stuff he admitted to doing in his past was criminal and horrible and I didn't get the impression he had changed.
Mount Bachelor Academy was started by CEDU/RMA staff. Tim was just one of them. MBA used the same cult system CEDU/RMA were based off of. Isolating kids, barring open and non-supervised communication with the outside world, banning people from speaking to others, forced labor, humiliating group therapy sessions full of screaming abusive insults at each other and peculiar workshops utilizing sleep deprivation, hot/cold temperature control, blaring loud and repetitive music while coercing kids to divulge information about themselves.
MBA, like CEDU/RMA before, were eventually shut down. Investigations determined that the program and it's systematic abuse of teens, the humiliations inflicted upon them, that unlicensed and untrained staff were performing unlicensed therapy based on principles proven to be damaging to people were illegal and/or unethical and they revoked their license. Tim Brace was a part of creating these programs. A part of the abuse. No amount of hugging or other uninvited physical contact such as smooshing can reduce the criminal behavior of Tim Brace and the other people involved in such practices.
You asked if there was proof any of it was illegal? Odds are strong that if Tim Brace is involved with Carlbrook, many of the same practices that were found to be illegal at Mount Bachelor Academy, that got CEDU/RMA shut down from lawsuits and criminal investigations are probably evident at Carlbrook as well. Thus it is likely Carlbrook could be shut down if investigated.
Many of the posters on this site are not recent graduated. Some are. But like myself, we graduated programs twenty or more years ago. It can take years to recognize that you have been abused. Cults have a way of making you believe that what you took part in was good for you and everyone else. There is a time when you "wake up" and that often doesn't happen to those are who still 18-22. It requires a certain self-reflection that is different than the type the program teaches. A level of personal honesty to be able to question what you went through and see it objectively. When I was 18, I didn't think twice about the raps and propheets, the strange exercises we had to endure. I did it, I graduated, I left. But at the age of 41, I can look back at what went on, what we did and I have the education and knowledge to make a neutral decision about it all. I am old enough to be able to recognize what it abuse, what is right, what is wrong, what is helpful, what is not. Society calls this wisdom. And on hindsight, I can say unequivocally that CEDU/RMA were abusive and cruel programs with little merit, and that what I know of Mount Bachelor tells me it was the same. And that because Tim Brace worked at these programs, and now works at Carlbrook, and that because Carlbrook uses many of the same practices, that Carlbrook is also abusive and cruel. No different than the other programs Tim Brace was associated with.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Yes. He arrived to be the cook about six to eight months after I got there. Went from cook to counselor in no time. I remember he tried to explain physics to some students one day while I was standing there. Guy was a complete imbecile. I was asked by several students who wanted to actually graduate with real credits they might use to get in to or to help them in college if I would teach Physics, Trig and Calculus to them since RMA at the time had Algebra as the top class. I doubt Rookie would have qualified to be in any of those classes.
All he really did was manage the kitchen staff. It was the women who came up with the recipes. He just ordered the food and bossed everyone around. Spent most of his time outside smoking behind the kitchen. I worked in the kitchen in New Horizons and Summit, even Challenge I think, I have no memories of actually watching him cook anything. He tried to show off his chopping skills with a knife one day and cut himself. Needless to say, I wasn't impressed. So you could add inept to imbecile as descriptive words for this fool. And fool too. To think he now runs his own program is a frightening thought. But it goes hand in hand with this industry that people with no credentials, no education, no background outside of programs, get hired to be cooks, or help with manual labor like showing kids how to chop wood, go on to be counselors, staff, escort/bounty hunters, and even starting their own programs.
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cooltherapy wrote
That's just ridiculous. He's a wonderful guy and a good friend. He cares, unlike the majority of the staff at the school.
I know that he made me uncomfortable but I was willing to look past it and think of it as him not understanding boundaries rather than something nasty. I didn't think that he had bad intentions, I just thought he really didn't know where the line was and put way too much of his shit on me and made me his lifeline which was inappropriate given the power dynamic but also detrimental to me because I was supposed to be there to work on my own issues. Still, we all have problems and handle things badly. I forgave Doom and moved on.
However, I'm not okay with the stuff he did to girls after me. I had known that a girl from Delta '07 accused him of hitting on her but he told me that she was just pissed about a bad grade. I believed him since he was my friend. Then, one of my best friends felt uncomfortable around him and like he was inappropriate with her. Still, I wrote her off as overreacting and misinterpreting. After I graduated and came back to visit, many of my little sisters told me how uncomfortable they felt around him. I know one of them even got put on 10-foot P-bans with him. I don't know what his deal is. I don't think he's a pedo or anything like that, I think he's just lonely and doesn't know where the line should be drawn. I considered him my "friend" but the truth is, when there's that kind of power dynamic, a full friendship isn't really possible at that time. Someone who is in that kind of skewed power dynamic shouldn't, for example, tell the student about their sex life or that kind of thing, which Doom did. I don't think he had bad intentions but I also don't think he handled himself well or -- from what I've heard from kids who are still there -- has figured out yet how to have appropriate relationships with students there.
I'm glad he was a good friend to you but I can't say the same.
cooltherapy wrote:
and nice use of the carlbrook lingo "cbk student"
unsafe? really? can we not detach ourselves from this bullshit? if you're going to sit around and bitch about the bs carlbrook put us through, why don't you woman up and start using "grown-up" words?
Okay, seriously? Don't tell other people what words they're allowed to use. I know that Carlbrook was a confusing time for me. I don't just sit around and bash it and I don't think anyone else on this board does. I think we're all here to try to figure out what happened and what parts of it we want to hold onto and what parts we want to let go. Yeah, sometimes I do criticize Carlbrook but I celebrate other parts of it. It was our experience, who the fuck are you to tell people what they can and can't take from it?
I've been trying to level with you and explain my perspective but I'm pissed beyond belief at you right now. You seem to scan people's posts and target the tiniest thing you don't agree with instead of finding the real meaning.
Everyone is on this board for a reason and I'm fairly sure it's not to get your approval for what words they use.
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this is chase pantea btw... and this is hilarious how fucking dumb some people are... whoevers talkin all this shit online is fucken ridiculous thats some pussy shit... ur brainwashed outta ur fucking mind, will u stop being a little bitch and just say who u are it would probly make things way funnier
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this is chase pantea btw... and this is hilarious how fucking dumb some people are... whoevers talkin all this shit online is fucken ridiculous thats some pussy shit... ur brainwashed outta ur fucking mind, will u stop being a little bitch and just say who u are it would probly make things way funnier
lk - look, we obviously disagree about how to move away from Carlbrook. The first thing I did was to cut was the lingo from my vocabulary. I'm sorry it offended you but the claims that she made were pretty harsh. In some situations, harsh is definitely appropriate. But, when it comes to Doom, there is no reason for this sort of slander. You're right that my response wasn't necessarily appropriate, but I can't begin to explain how pissed it makes me to see the one person who I truly believe cares slandered on this message board. It makes me fucking furious. Also, quit trying to dictate exactly what has caused Doom to do the things he does. Until you discuss with him what he did, it isn't fair to make the claims that he does this because he is "lonely."
Now, chemdog... as I stated earlier, how about we, as Carlbrook grads, at least stand by our intelligence. Your buffoonish response is embarrassing and makes us all look just as ignorant and unintelligent as you are. Thanks.
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sorry
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But in essence, no one really respected you while you were there, because you acted like arrogant assholes. Sure, maye you idnt do drugs or shit like us, but it was obvious that you werent happy, but, yall were too scared to step outside of yourselves.
Love, Me.
Really? What makes you so much better? If you have to know, I graduated on nearly every committee, honor council, and with a fairly high GPA. I had lots of friends at the school and am still in touch with many of them.
The problem is not what happened to me 5 years ago, it is that kids are sitting on that campus as we speak, enduring the bullshit that people, like Mr. Paperclip, are talking about. It is a bold and blanketing statement that we are all unhappy and couldn't "step outside of ourselves," *whatever that means anyway.* I was very happy with Carlbrook while I was there. Sure, I was scared of the punishments that I complain about now - but I never had to endure them. I followed all guidelines and standards expected of me and graduated with honor. I spent 2 years struggling with myself, trying to persuade myself into thinking that I was not "brainwashed" (hell of a word). When I entered my junior year in college, things started to clear up for me.
Now, it could definitely be argued that this is a phase, that I will enter into a Carlbrook support message board. If I do that, feel free to bash me then. Until then, however, please stop making excuses for why you believe we have issues with the place. Try taking a step back and questioning your experience. Yes, maybe it was mostly good, but I imagine even you could think of a few exercises that may have hurt more than helped.
We, as Carlbrook grads, are intelligent and feisty young adults. We have a lot to contribute. If there are a number of us who believe there is something wrong with the school we went to, who's to say there isn't?
What worries me for grads like you, "Me," is that you seem to be fighting for the school with such blind passion. Could it be that you are simply reasoning with yourself? Are you upset by the things you endured and need some sort of positive reinforcement, some sort of reminder, that it was all for a cause? Did you fight your ass off for 18 months for nothing? This is what I was initially scared to see. It's why I am still having trouble letting some of the anger go. I spent so long, so much energy, on something that didn't give me much more than deepening a few emotional wounds. (I know, bold statement, this is excluding the amazing friends I met along the way).
Do you still feel like you owe the school something? Advisers, founders, fellow students? Being honest with yourself and your experience is the best you can do. No need to keep lying to yourself.
Now, all this said, maybe Carlbrook was perfect for you. Maybe you had JUST enough sensitivity and JUST enough toughness to have the perfect Carlbrook experience. If this is true, you should use your "tools" to try and understand where your fellow grads are coming from. You have to practice what you preach.
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So that's "Mr. Paperclip"....
Also - didn't realize this before my last post. That is TOTALLY inappropriate to expose someone who doesn't want to be. If Mr. Paperclip wanted to have his facebook profile linked, he'd have done it himself. Heartless, really.
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A) I'm not just randomly slandering Doom. I don't think he's a bad guy, I don't think he had any bad intentions, but I do think the way he went about certain things made people uncomfortable. He was aware of it. We had many conversations about it. I didn't make up the "lonely" bit. He was a real friend to me at one point and I'll always be grateful for that but I think things unraveled at the end and it wasn't healthy.
B) That really sucked that you'd expose Shep/Paperclip like that. (Am I crazy or did Mr. Paperclip say that he went to Carlbrook a few years ago? Because Shep got there after I did...or am I getting confused?)
C) I love you, Gianni.
D) Can this board be less about arguing and more about figuring out how where to go from here? This board is supposed to be a resource, not a place to hold pissing contests.
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sorry i was a part of this
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Well done, Brandon. You managed to insult just about everyone here. I only come to this page from time to time (notice my posts are in spurts) but the new grads have managed to turn it into a big group session. This is not what it used to be about. Go to earlier pages and you'll see why I came.
Thanks for at least trying not to sound like a complete idiot. I'm sorry that we don't see eye to eye on this, but I personally don't like to be grouped in with folks who can hardly get their messages across because of a lack of grammatical sense. Sorry that you think it's such a joke - I, however, don't find it so funny.
Now that you've insulted just about all posters, why don't you go ahead and join the Carlbrook Alumni Association so that you have more appropriate people to talk to?
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:whip:
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"]... making fun of the workshop tools, and referring to the fact that it was a scam by thie CEDU bullshit that ppl can NOT seem to even want to drop
Well. What were these tools you learned, specifically. I always hear people mention tools but the people who can define them are few and far between. I ask then, what did you learn specifically and how? Which parts of the workshops taught you what?
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Since I like reading threads where there are intelligent posts by alumni of programs who are for, against, and ambivalent, allow me to add my 0.02.
To the alumni who are either on the fence or are troubled by Carlbrook's practices, bitching about it might give you some relief, but frankly if you have a problem with the program and have the emotional capacity to do so, you need to take some action.
It can be collaborative, by explaining to program staff how certain parts of the program negatively impacted you, and suggest ways of how they can make the program better. There are programs that flat out do not accept any constructive criticism and will not return your call/message, there are programs that pay lip service, and say they'll make the necessary changes but do nothing, and then there are programs that take to heart what their critical alumni have to say and make at least incremental changes. In my opinion, the suggestions of critics should be taken more seriously than those that suggest the status quo.
If collaboration is ineffective or doesn't meet your end goals, then there are a number of steps you can take which I outlined in a previous post. I'm of the opinion that Carlbrook may be in violation of Virginia licensing laws, but I just don't know.
To Brandon, thank you for taking this issue seriously enough to read everything. The victimization thing is tricky. "Acting like a victim", (i.e. blaming others for all of your problems) is quite different than appropriately recognizing that you are a victim and choosing to do something about it.
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"]full of people who just want to hurt their children.
I think you misunderstand the message. At least in my mind most staff and even some program directors at a wide variety of schools have the best intentions in their minds. Best intentions, however, do not necessarily mean good results. Programs such as Carlbrook, like it or not, are derived from CEDU which was derived from Synanon. Whether you like to admit it or not, the workshops you praise *were* constructed primarly from two cults: est and LifeSpring. This is fact, a matter of record, and not opinion. Cults are designed to make people feel good, make people loyal, make people have a sort of cathartic conversion experience without actually teaching anything of substance. When I mean substance I do not mean to deride the philosophy taught. I mean to state that the underlying philosophy does not exist at all in any coherent form (generally masses of contradictions). It's gobbledygook and stitched together concepts that sound profound but really mean nothing when you actually examine what is being taught... Which is why I asked you:
"]... making fun of the workshop tools, and referring to the fact that it was a scam by thie CEDU bullshit that ppl can NOT seem to even want to drop
Well. What were these tools you learned, specifically. I always hear people mention tools but the people who can define them are few and far between. I ask then, what did you learn specifically and how? Which parts of the workshops taught you what?
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How can this one little forum be a threat to Carlbrook? I have searched all over the internet for similar websites and I have not found any. Everything else is dedicated to the prestigous status of Carlbrook School. No one bashes it, no one questions it. And now you're asking these people to stop voicing their opinions because its a threat? If anyone should be threatened, its the people that never get to see this site and then make a bad decision because of their biased knowledge...
Sigma December 2009
Oh and to the dumbshit who also said he just graduated from Sigma, it looks like your belief that everyone you knew supported you was wrong.
Brandon, Gianni, and the other people posting on here. You guys should be ashamed of yourselves. I felt like you guys were nice people. You're nothing more than everything these people claim you to be. You're brainwashed and you won't admit it. At least I can admit that bad stuff!
Enjoy trying to expose me! I'll still talk to you guys, write on your fbook walls, but I won't tell you who I am. Everything will seem the same...Good thing you can trust anyone that graduates from Carlbrook! NOT!!! (you guys are retarded and brainwashed. Just admit it!) :beat:
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(you guys are retarded and brainwashed. Just admit it!) :beat:
Even the most intelligent of folk can be fooled. One does not need to be retarded to become brainwashed, and that is a distinction an individual must make on their own. Telling a person they are brainwashed never helps, even if they are. It merely drives them away. Try explaining why you feel the way you do instead.
Just a kind suggestion. Please do not take offense.
:peace:
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:seg2:
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Who cares if your brain washed.... do something about it. Your life sucks cuz of Carlbrook... do something about it. You love carlbrook and want to go back... do somethoing about it. Whatever your stance do something about it. I've read all the shit about cedu. Watched some random documentary about it on youtube. Gone to random websites where they talk about how adolescents have their human rights violated by theseprograms. I also periodically come back to this page and question whether i should comment here cuz i think people sould form their own opinions on this place although i do know that the parent tours of Carlbrook are not vvery thorough and suck hearing when your in OSS. Ive hated carlbrook. Wanted to start a class action lawsuit against it. Wanted to take back the last two uyears of my life. Wanted to blame the fact that i sucked with the chikas on it when i first got out (much improved haha). Left the transition plan for a good 3 weeks before I decided to get back on. i've also been on the other side of it where I stay up all night listening to workshop songs and rereading teneo /veneratio letters. Sent people letters. Gone to ATS visits. Reached out to alumni and non graduates. (although I have been a doosh to certain grads). I wish I knew what i thought of Carlbrook but honestly it depends on my mood a lot... I'm still glad i can say i ebndured that place and got some of the life/general bootcamp experience in a way from the woods and the whole rtherapy deal. I was a bitch two years ago and now i just pms occasionally. What I started out saying is that none of it really matters because you have control of ypour life. once you leave Carlbrook you don't really have to go back to it. You dont have to support it and you dont have to bash it. You dont even have to talk about it. Brainwashed or Functioning Brain alike you can live your life and your not tied down to carlbrook even thpugh when you first graduate its hard to understand that your actually not in HALIFAX VA anymore... its your life do what you wanna do. Speak to the friends you wanna speak to. Build up Carlbrook if you want to shoot it down if you want to. I really dont care its just something that happened and as much as you talk about it unless you are really trying hard to go back you never have to. As that really annoyin c-brook/ TI Rihana song says
Allergic to the counterfeit, impartial to the politics.
Articulate but still would grab a nigga by the collar quick.
Whoever having problems with, their record sales just holla tip.
If that don't work and all else fails, then turn around and follow tip.
I got love for the game but ay I'm not in love with all of it.
I do without the fame and the rappers nowadays are comedy.
The hootin' and the hollerin', back and forth with the arguing.
Where you from, who you know, what you make and what kind of car you in.
Seems as though you lost sight of what's important with the positive.
And checks until your bank account and you up out of poverty.
Your values is a disarrayed, prioritizing horribly.
Unhappy with the riches cause your piss poor morally.
Ignoring all prior advice and fore warning.
And we mighty full of ourselves all of a sudden aren't we?
[Rihanna:]
You're gonna be a shining star, with fancy clothes, fancy car-ars.
And then you'll see, you're gonna go far.
Cause everyone knows, who you are-are.
So live your life, ay ay ay.
Aidan "Pomparidah" Pomper
August (PI) 09
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rofl etc.
I don't care who you are.
:cheers:
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Now, chemdog... as I stated earlier, how about we, as Carlbrook grads, at least stand by our intelligence. Your buffoonish response is embarrassing and makes us all look just as ignorant and unintelligent as you are. Thanks.[/quote]
So ur just a fucken ignornant bitch. You dont know anything about how smart I am, and its not something i need to prove to you either, you just throwing out shit like that just proves your ignornant trying to act like u actually no some shit but u dont. Also ur a fuckin pussy... for real who the fuck are you this is just stupid i dont know who im talk to.
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hah, really? :waaaa:
You wouldn't know who I am anyway - the name would mean nothing to you. I graduated 5 years ago.
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A lot of the comments in this forum are pretty ridiculous, probably a lot of people posting fake comments about abuse because there is a really large anti-therapeutic boarding school community online--a lot of people who never attended, much less visited such a facility.
I am a Carlbrook graduate. I am not brainwashed, was not abused in any way shape or form and never witnessed ANY staff member doing anything even remotely inappropriate with a student or with each other. Some of the things I've read on this forum--I graduated five years ago, by the way and attended a really good college where I made great grades and am currently pursuing a Master's degree--are so shocking, that they could have only been written by people who have had absolutely nothing to do with Carlbrook, or who are just ex-students that are dissatisfied with their experience there and are trying to give the place a bad name.
Carlbrook is not perfect. What school in this kind of business could be? Some kids end up there that really should have been placed in other programs. It is important that you are certain that your child has been accurately diagnosed while in wilderness therapy, as some kids totally lie their way through testing, try and seem really fucked up, or not--and anyway, then they get misdiagnosed and there your kid is stuck in a program that's entirely inappropriate for their needs. Not a shocker that some people aren't thrilled with their experience, Carlbrook is a tough place--especially for kids with problems that are too tough for Carlbrook to deal with. Some kids are just not interested in getting with the program. Some parents are just not interested in getting with the program, expect their children to do all the work, and end up making things really difficult for them. If you don't have the time as a parent to invest in doing some SERIOUS work on yourself while your child is at boarding school, you might as well flush most of your expectations of having your loving son or daughter back straight down the toilet. I am very thankful that my parents were willing to challenge the way they looked at the world in order to come to love and accept me for the person I am. I am VERY confident that it would not have been possible without Carlbrook's help--if so, it would have taken years, probably after I had ruined my chances of getting a quality education in order to secure a good future for myself. Some parents of Carlbrook children are very wealthy, my parents were not and made extreme sacrifices to make it possible for me to be there. Sacrifices for which I will be eternally grateful.
Let it be known, I am not a Carlbrook-junkie, I do not sit around every single day and think back on Carlbrook and how much I miss it, I don't hardly ever think about it. I don't use workshop tools to help me get through the day, I don't go visit Carlbrook, nor do I keep in touch with most of my fellow alumni, not to mention staff. I have a core group of two or three people that have remained really close with that I visit occasionally and keep in touch with occasionally online--one of those things where you don't talk often, but that you share a special... irreplaceable bond with, just because they know exactly what you went through, and it's a pretty small community... and we don't seek each other out. We all kind of like to forget it happened. Just because we long to feel NORMAL--which we are! The truth is, regardless of your experience at Carlbrook--how successful you are there, how much you think you've healed upon graduating--you get back out into the "real world" and you fall on your face. This is crucial, or it was for me. It is very difficult to leave a place like Carlbrook, but if you've come to terms with yourself to any extent during your stay, and especially if you have repaired--at least somewhat--your relationship with your parents, then you have all you will need to overcome what is without question a difficult transition. And then all of a sudden you look back and you are so glad that Carlbrook has nothing to do with your life anymore, but you know (or I do) you wouldn't have ended up where you were--college, a future, a family--without it. As far as workshops and group therapy goes--it was sometimes but not always necessarily helpful, definitely painful, never easy and sometimes unnecessary to an extent, but in the end, I couldn't be happier. It is so just 100% worth having a mom and dad again. I just can't stress the importance for any parents thinking of sending their child to Carlbrook, you may not think it, but you have A LOT TO LEARN FROM YOUR CRAZY CHILD. You will be forced to listen to what your child has to say, confront a lot of things you should have done differently, and be ready to forgive and move on. You have to be there every step of the way and you have to take it seriously. This is not a convenient arrangement for parents that are busy, busy, busy and rich enough to think that money and distance will solve the problem. I have seen this ruin students' experiences.
Okay, do I think it could have been done with normal therapy? No, I had been sexually abused for years as an adolescent by another family member and I really don't think I would have been able to tell anyone about it had I not been sent away and realized what it felt like to be absolutely powerless over my life. Carlbrook did not brainwash me, my abuser had me brainwashed. I needed to recognize the fact that I wasn't ready to be an adult yet (I turned 18 2 months after I got to Carlbrook--I stayed), and that doing things to destroy my life in order to hurt my parents (and please my abuser) wasn't a rational way to go about dealing with my pain, anger and confusion. In my case, I needed it, I'm glad I had it, and I'm sure as hell glad it's over. I wouldn't want to relive it, I don't think about it often, but it was worth every moment of my sacrifice of freedom. And that sacrifice makes you really, really understand how (materially) good you had it at home, grateful for the internet, grateful for a cigarette, grateful to just... go on a walk by yourself to WHEREVER you want. Stay up as late as you want. Leave your dorm room as dirty as you want. How many people our age know how to be thankful for things like that? They are small moments of ecstasy that creep into your daily routine on occasion that remind you of, wow, I don't live in a tent in the woods anymore. My life RULES. I am grateful for those feelings.
Sometimes I do have dreams of going back to the woods, back to Carlbrook, back to a group. I would be lying if I said those dreams were pleasant...
Anyway, basically, if your child was never very high functioning, Carlbrook is not where they need to be. Someone in this forum said that RTCs are only necessary for people that pose a threat to themselves or others. I disagree. I was never a threat to anyone, and I probably never would have been. I just smoked some weed and lived a lifestyle my parents were unwilling to accept and had a lot of pent up feelings about being raped repeatedly to deal with. Nevertheless, lots of good things came out of the experience. My time at Carlbrook evidenced the opposite about the commenter who said your child needs to be suicidal or homicidal to go to Carlbrook--it is not a place for low-functioning children and people with any kind of severe mental problem. Probably not a great place for people that are bipolar, have a severe eating disorder, acute drug addictions, etc. It's mostly group therapy--it can only do so much. It is a place for talking, screaming, crying out your feelings. If your child did not excel at his or her wilderness program, it will probably be a similar experience at Carlbrook. The more willing your child is to talk about their problems, the more intelligent your child is and the more, well, cooperative, the better. The more willing you and your child are to work with Carlbrook, the more for Carlbrook to work for you. Most of the people on here that are actual Carlbrook grads and give Carlbrook a negative review were the kind of students that never really surrendered (you have to) to the program. That sounds strange, but if you've never been in the situation, it's something you can't understand. For those grads, I totally get it... it sucks. It's a hard place to be a teenager. But I bit my teeth together, did it, and couldn't be happier--now. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger, and Carlbrook did that for me. Not with tools and workshops, but really just by helping me learn to stick through a difficult, and at times very uncomfortable/unpleasant situation. But life is unpleasant, unfair, uncomfortable, hard work.... and it really did help.
I feel bad for students that graduate and hate it, but really, I don't know many people that feel that way--not from my day, anyway. We are ALL happy to leave, then we're sad we left, we're confused, we're lonely, but so it goes. We end up doing, a lot of us, the same drugs we did before we went to Carlbrook, but in my experience, you just miss the time were you really felt proud of yourself for keeping commitments to yourself and a community of people and an idea that mattered to you--irrespective of how idiotic it was--and you want it back--the feeling of being proud of yourself and feeling like you've made concrete goals and accomplished them. And so you grow up, leave the old drugs behind again... I mean, people grow up anyway, but my point here really is that it does great things for a lot of families... not so great things for other families... and well, that's sort of just the way it is. I needed it, some people maybe didn't/don't need it, some people need it but aren't willing to DO it... So don't listen to the haters--the haters that didn't go to Carlbrook. The haters that did go to Carlbrook, sorry that your experience was so much different than mine. I hope you are okay with some people thinking that it was a good thing (or that it was worth it) and that you can accept that I'm not a brainwashed person that sits around and dreams about making Grant Price proud all the time. I am not that person. Just a normal, well-adjusted guy with a now totally drained college fund.
As far as students having sex in the hallways, bathrooms and dorm rooms? In my day, incidences like this were minimal to virtually non-existent. Can't vouch for how things are now, but Carlbrook was a pretty (very) "safe" place back then. Nothing I saw in the dorms would even come close to constituting "abuse", though boys will be boys and girls will be girls when left alone together... to an extent. At Carlbrook, it's pretty okay. You can't really get away with being much of an asshole to anyone, because it's like shooting yourself in the foot. You get chewed out in group for it and no body wants that. So people in my day were MOSTLY respectful of each other, mostly, and if they weren't they paid the price for it. Sometimes the Grant Price for it. Sorry, the pun was irresistible.
In short, was it necessary? Probably. Was it weird and uncomfortable? Definitely. Did it traumatize me? No. Was it abuse? No. Being home was FAR WORSE. WAY, WAY WORSE. And now it's wonderful when I go home. That feeling, my friends, is PRICELESS.
So, prospective parents: could be a good thing, could be a bad thing.
Graduates that share my opinion: nice to know I'm not alone
Recent graduates that still love Carlbrook: you will get over it
Recent graduates that HATE Carlbrook: you will get over it
People who also graduated 5 (or more) years ago and still HATE Carlbrook: it is definitely time to get over it.
Wishing you a happy 2010.
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JLK,
Thank you for sharing. Your perspective is greatly appreciated.
Here's the thing, and take this for what it's worth, I'm not a Carlbrook grad, I'm trying to be respectful of all of the alumni here, so I'm not trying to hate on the place.
Let me say this first, I don't think you're brainwashed, it's different than that, much softer. More like how one might view the world if someone grew up in a Republican household and they were trying to talk economics to someone who grew up in a Democratic household, "well, of course if you would just cut taxes you would create jobs". And I would say, "not so fast, what good are jobs if they all pay below a living wage".
I take issue with the premise that you base your whole argument on. Not the argument itself. I still don't get the clinical rationale of Wilderness Camp as a way to appropriately evaluate someone. I am of the mindset that it's not ok to have nightmares about your treatment center, and that if you do it was not a good place and it may be a sign of PTSD. Better than home, sure. Things turned out ok for you, so you don't want to jinx things, I get it.
It's more like when you see someone who accepts things that you yourself find unacceptable. Pick your cause. The outrage of the far left that Cheney hasn't been brought up on war crimes yet. Sure if more people found torture unacceptable something might be done about it, but there's apathy and/or assent.
Eh, sorry for the tangent. I hope you see what I'm getting at here. Congratulations on your success and having the resiliency to overcome both your past traumas and a less than perfect treatment program.
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Okay...the bottom line is that we all have different opinions and we should all be respectful of each others' opinions and try to understand other people's opinions. There's no need to get angry or attack others.
I love Carlbrook sometimes and I hate it at others. Like Aidan said, it varies with mood. It's not black and white. What I'm trying to do on this board is to understand my experience a little better and talk to other people about their experiences. This board isn't about "bashing Carlbrook." I celebrate and appreciate a lot of what Carlbrook helped me do for myself; however, there are parts that caused me a lot of pain and confusion too. Anyone who claims to be 100% on one "side" of the argument is full of shit. To have conflicting views and to exist in shades of gray is what it means to be human. And the thing is, it's okay to be confused and conflicted. To 100% hate or 100% love Carlbrook doesn't make you any better than anyone else.
Can we just stop with all the bashing? I don't like bashing Carlbrook but I also don't like bashing people who bash Carlbrook. Even if you do think what happens here is "bitching," then that's just your opinion. And if "bitching" helps some people cope and heal, then who are you to judge or deny them that? Everyone has the right to their own process.
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People who also graduated 5 (or more) years ago and still HATE Carlbrook: it is definitely time to get over it.
Feeling that this is probably targeted towards me.
Never said I HATE Carlbrook. You say to "get over it," but I have met people on this forum who went through a very similar experience to ours and it took them 30 years to come to terms with the pain it has caused them. THAT is what this forum is for. There are other websites with other forums for what you're talking about. It took me a while to realize the pain I was left with after leaving Halifax. I DON'T think about it all the time, everyday, whatever. But, I do think about it enough that it bugs me. It comes back more in my dreams. There is NOTHING that has happened to me in my life that 5 years later is still giving me nightmares. I'm glad you made it out comfortable and happy. But I didn't. So to tell me to just "get over it," now, that's a little closed-minded, don't you think?
You say that you don't think of the "tools." These are sayings that I hear over and over in my head. I am happy to use the term "brainwashed." Anytime I am angry with someone, no matter how cruel the transgression, I hear "forgiveness is my single function, peace of mind my single goal." A nice way to view life, but not something you want on repeat in your head. There are so many other of these "tools" that are on repeat for me.
But more than that - the things that happened to me in the workshops started to really haunt me. Things like the statue exercise in animus are continuously in the back of my head and the pain is just as fresh as it was in the moment.
I see Carlbrook's primary goal as breaking a student down and then building him back up, giving him confidence and common sense that he may not have had before. I think that my experience was fucked. They succeeded in the "breaking down" process, but my high sensitivity required more in the "building up" strategy. The lack of enough support to rebuild myself plus a VERY difficult last few months combined into a terrible experience. I was too scared to be held back to say anything. My depression was so incredibly unbearable but I had to hide it if I wanted to graduate. That's the big problem with the school, in my opinion, the fear factor. I was terrified to move in any direction. You can say they didn't abuse us, but in my mind, instilling that fear is abuse enough.
There is much more to my Carlbrook story but I think you've probably caught the drift. I am glad that you didn't have the experience that I did, but to tell me to just "get over it" isn't necessarily fair. You have not walked in my shoes. I have not been brooding over this for 5 years, avoiding life. I, too, successfully made it through college with great grades and have started grad school. I am not a "negative new kid" who never grew up. This is VERY different.
-CT
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People who also graduated 5 (or more) years ago and still HATE Carlbrook: it is definitely time to get over it.
Never said I HATE Carlbrook. You say to "get over it," but I have met people on this forum who went through a very similar experience to ours and it took them 30 years to come to terms with the pain it has caused them. THAT is what this forum is for. There are other websites with other forums for what you're talking about. It took me a while to realize the pain I was left with after leaving Halifax. I DON'T think about it all the time, everyday, whatever. But, I do think about it enough that it bugs me. It comes back more in my dreams. There is NOTHING that has happened to me in my life that 5 years later is still giving me nightmares. I'm glad you made it out comfortable and happy. But I didn't. So to tell me to just "get over it," now, that's a little closed-minded, don't you think?
LOL. I was just in the process of sticking in my 2¢ about this very quote, when I saw that it had also stuck in your craw, cooltherapy.
Quite frankly, I don't think any of us is really in a position to judge how long a time it "should" take to "get over" an experience someone feels traumatized or damaged by.
Moreover, five years is very little time in the larger scheme of things. I'm sure that you believe you know everything there is to know about how Calbrook has affected you, jlk, but check back in another five years, and my bet is you'll be singing a somewhat different tune. I'm not saying that it'll be better or worse, but your perspective will probably be significantly different than it is now.
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A lot of the comments in this forum are pretty ridiculous, probably a lot of people posting fake comments about abuse because there is a really large anti-therapeutic boarding school community online--a lot of people who never attended, much less visited such a facility.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people claiming abuse have been in such places. The differences are our definitions of abuse. Personally I find the processes Carlbrook (and other programs) use to modify kids thinking to be inherently abusive. What one might call "help", another person might not appreciate very much. Just because you don't currently feel you were harmed does not mean portions of what went on were not abuse. It does not mean others were not harmed.
Some of the things I've read on this forum--I graduated five years ago, by the way and attended a really good college where I made great grades and am currently pursuing a Master's degree--are so shocking, that they could have only been written by people who have had absolutely nothing to do with Carlbrook
To be fair, Carlbrook is hardly unique in the way it approaches changing kids. Their workshops were adopted directly from CEDU (albeit given latin names) and apart from a few minor differences, are identical to the original. Many other programs use similarly derived workshops. Many other programs have nearly identical structure. I'd say experiences of kids who were in other programs similar to CB are very much relevant.
or who are just ex-students that are dissatisfied with their experience there and are trying to give the place a bad name.
Is it possible they have a legitimate bone to pick with the school? Is it possible they were hurt by the school and feel they must warn others? Is it possible the malice you imply is just altruism from another point of view? Would you rather they stay silent on something they feel is important? Different people "move on" in different ways. I would argue your version of moving on is simply ignoring; posponing the inevitable conflict within bubbling to the surface. I would argue it's better to talk about it and process the past. Sometimes people have to confront their past, confront those who have hurt them, and process and rage and hate and cry and whatever is necessary. That takes different amounts of time for each person. Who are you to judge from your ivory tower saying "move on" with such arrogance? Who are you to say you know better for them than they do themselves?
What school in this kind of business could be? Some kids end up there that really should have been placed in other programs. It is important that you are certain that your child has been accurately diagnosed while in wilderness therapy
Please don't refer to it as wilderness "therapy". It is not. Not even the programs dare to call it therapy in their marketing (cept to parents on off the record phone calls). The GAO did an extensive report on fradulent/misleading advertising in the industry in relation to this very issue.
as some kids totally lie their way through testing, try and seem really fucked up, or not--and anyway, then they get misdiagnosed and there your kid is stuck in a program that's entirely inappropriate for their needs.
And you consider it out of the realm of possibility that there might be an arrangement between, say, second nature and Carlbrook? You consider it out of the realm of possibility that some of those kids get placed in such programs not because they have any problems per-se, but because of referral programs that reward educational consultants, because of nepotism, or because some ideologues see all kids as needing a program?
I am very thankful that my parents were willing to challenge the way they looked at the world in order to come to love and accept me for the person I am. I am VERY confident that it would not have been possible without Carlbrook's help--if so, it would have taken years, probably after I had ruined my chances of getting a quality education in order to secure a good future for myself.
The program made similar predictions of failure for me if my parents pulled me, yet I've done quite well for myself.
Some parents of Carlbrook children are very wealthy, my parents were not and made extreme sacrifices to make it possible for me to be there. Sacrifices for which I will be eternally grateful.
Is it possible that you aren't able to consider the possibility the experience was less than optimal because it would mean reflecting on the possibility that the your parents sacrificed so much for so much less? It's well know that the more you spend on a bottle of wine the better it will taste (even if it's the same wine). The same holds true for so many other things, especially when the purchase holds such emotional entanglements.
I don't use workshop tools to help me get through the day
What exactly are those tools, btw? Few are able to put it in words. You seem fairly eloquent. Perhaps you can give it a shot. What were the tools you learned in the workshops and how did you learn them?
The truth is, regardless of your experience at Carlbrook--how successful you are there, how much you think you've healed upon graduating--you get back out into the "real world" and you fall on your face.
Perhaps those tools you were taught were not as useful outside the bubble? What then, did you learn there?
This is crucial, or it was for me. It is very difficult to leave a place like Carlbrook, but if you've come to terms with yourself to any extent during your stay, and especially if you have repaired--at least somewhat--your relationship with your parents, then you have all you will need to overcome what is without question a difficult transition. And then all of a sudden you look back and you are so glad that Carlbrook has nothing to do with your life anymore, but you know (or I do) you wouldn't have ended up where you were--college, a future, a family--without it.
But you don't know that and you cannot know that. You cannot reverse time, chance something, and wind it forward to see what happens. You might very well be where you are today, or in an even better situation. You believe you are in a better situation thanks to Carlbrook, I understand that, but it's still anecdotal evidence.
As far as workshops and group therapy goes--it was sometimes but not always necessarily helpful, definitely painful, never easy and sometimes unnecessary to an extent, but in the end, I couldn't be happier.
You don't think anything in those workshops was inappropriate or could conceivably have harmed anybody? Do you realize from what those workshops are derived?
Okay, do I think it could have been done with normal therapy? No, I had been sexually abused for years as an adolescent by another family member and I really don't think I would have been able to tell anyone about it had I not been sent away and realized what it felt like to be absolutely powerless over my life. Carlbrook did not brainwash me, my abuser had me brainwashed. I needed to recognize the fact that I wasn't ready to be an adult yet (I turned 18 2 months after I got to Carlbrook--I stayed), and that doing things to destroy my life in order to hurt my parents (and please my abuser) wasn't a rational way to go about dealing with my pain, anger and confusion. In my case, I needed it, I'm glad I had it, and I'm sure as hell glad it's over. I wouldn't want to relive it, I don't think about it often, but it was worth every moment of my sacrifice of freedom. And that sacrifice makes you really, really understand how (materially) good you had it at home, grateful for the internet, grateful for a cigarette, grateful to just... go on a walk by yourself to WHEREVER you want. Stay up as late as you want. Leave your dorm room as dirty as you want. How many people our age know how to be thankful for things like that? They are small moments of ecstasy that creep into your daily routine on occasion that remind you of, wow, I don't live in a tent in the woods anymore. My life RULES. I am grateful for those feelings.
It's great things turned out so well for you. Fantastic. However my point from before still stands. You cannot know how things would have turned out had you stayed at home and turned to "normal" (as you put it) therapy. Just because it worked for you so well does not necessarily mean that it helps everybody and cannot have caused harm to others.
Anyway, basically, if your child was never very high functioning, Carlbrook is not where they need to be. Someone in this forum said that RTCs are only necessary for people that pose a threat to themselves or others. I disagree. I was never a threat to anyone, and I probably never would have been. I just smoked some weed and lived a lifestyle my parents were unwilling to accept and had a lot of pent up feelings about being raped repeatedly to deal with.
I believe that a person has the right to choose what treatment, if any, is best for them. Just because you are grateful that it turned out well or that you enjoyed it does not mean it was right to do it without your consent. You were sexually abused. That was traumatic, i'm sure. You probably saw it as normal at one point. You probably sympathized, even loved your abuser. You see where i'm going? Intruding on somebody's mind without their consent and without their knowledge of what is going on, is a rape of the mind. In such a program, refusing therapy that is not wanted is not acceptable. In the workshops, you cannot possibly consent to what goes on since you have no prior knowledge (and no choice anyways). You might not believe that it's possible to influence a person without their knowledge or consent but I assure you, the phenomenon is real and very well documented, and like the sexual abuse you describe, it often takes a victim a period of time to "snap out" and figure out that what went on was wrong, regardless of how it felt at the time.
Nevertheless, lots of good things came out of the experience. My time at Carlbrook evidenced the opposite about the commenter who said your child needs to be suicidal or homicidal to go to Carlbrook--it is not a place for low-functioning children and people with any kind of severe mental problem. Probably not a great place for people that are bipolar, have a severe eating disorder, acute drug addictions, etc. It's mostly group therapy--it can only do so much. It is a place for talking, screaming, crying out your feelings.
Is it group therapy? Do they call it that?
I feel bad for students that graduate and hate it, but really, I don't know many people that feel that way--not from my day, anyway. We are ALL happy to leave, then we're sad we left, we're confused, we're lonely, but so it goes. We end up doing, a lot of us, the same drugs we did before we went to Carlbrook, but in my experience, you just miss the time were you really felt proud of yourself for keeping commitments to yourself and a community of people and an idea that mattered to you--irrespective of how idiotic it was--and you want it back--the feeling of being proud of yourself and feeling like you've made concrete goals and accomplished them.
Really? To me the all the goals and accomplishments in the program seemed rather illusory to me. Very artificial. Anything but concrete. I jumped through many hoops but in retrospect, I'd kick myself it I had a chance for even bothering to comply with that bullshit.
So, prospective parents: could be a good thing, could be a bad thing.
Graduates that share my opinion: nice to know I'm not alone
Recent graduates that still love Carlbrook: you will get over it
Recent graduates that HATE Carlbrook: you will get over it
People who also graduated 5 (or more) years ago and still HATE Carlbrook: it is definitely time to get over it.
Like I said. People move on in their own ways at their own pace.
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Carlbrook did not brainwash me, my abuser had me brainwashed. I needed to recognize the fact that I wasn't ready to be an adult yet (I turned 18 2 months after I got to Carlbrook--I stayed), and that doing things to destroy my life in order to hurt my parents (and please my abuser) wasn't a rational way to go about dealing with my pain, anger and confusion.
Have you ever considered that being brainwashed by your abuser may have primed you for being brainwashed by Carlbrook? It has something to do with being taught, especially when it's at an early age, that the conditions of verity are in the hands of another, not your own.
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How can anyone tell people to get over being there? How can anyone tell people that Carlbrook wasn't abusive?
Here's the kicker. If it was so great, then why couldn't you leave? It shouldn't matter if some people needed to stay there, the fact of the matter is that there are a number of people that shouldn't have been there but were forced to be there anyway. They were imprisoned, forced against their will to be in a facility in which they had no reason to be there.
I don't give a SHIT about whether Carlbrook helped you! It shouldn't be harming people and we all know it does.
Therapy should be individualized...everyone is different. No matter how similar our problems are, we are all different. Therefore, to even think about "cookie-cutter" therapy is just retarded!
---Do me a favor. For all you Carlbrook junkies that attempt to refute everything I have just said, do me a favor. Keep your pissy emotions out of your response. As I have already said, "I don't give a SHIT about whether Carlbrook helped you! It shouldn't be harming people and we all know it does." So come up with another way to argue my point or just admit that I am right...
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dude i hated being at carlbrook and i am so glad that i am out. But no way can i actually say that it was "abusive." i am going to go to a college because of that place...just stop being such an ass bag and let people have what they want to have. You cant change their minds and they cant change yours. But we can all try and not look like fuck sticks
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You cant change their minds and they cant change yours.
That's very much not true. I've seen it happen many times on this forum, quite dramatically. I would say, however that it often requires a certain amount of respect in the exchange.
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Charly is a good example of a change of mind. Used to be a total kool-aid chugger for Carlbrook, now she's reformed and back to drinking scotch.
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whoops
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Fascinating change of perspective. Would you mind sharing what prompted you to reconsider your original position?
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Oh yeah, and about an hour or two after I made that snarky comment about Charly being back to scotch she sent me a torpedo via facebook grousing about her dislike for scotch.
Just thought I'd throw that out there for you all.
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how embarassing
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But after touring the Jack Daniels distillery today, I'm going to try to develop a taste for whiskey- will start with Jack and Bourbon. No Scotch.
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Jim Beam is better.
:)
Nice seeing you drop by Charly.
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I'm a Carlbrook graduate from within the last five years. I'm trying to remain relatively anonymous, because--for some reason--people have been getting pretty emotional on the topic. I've seen this thread since I graduated, and have been very hesitant to post simply based on the negativity. It seems like several people aren't willing to listen and accept others' experiences and are trying to convince the other that Carlbrook was a) fucked up or b) not fucked up whatsoever. There have also been a few graduates who have been very eloquent and respectful in speaking, and it is greatly appreciated.
For anything that I say, if I'm incorrect on factual things please let me know. As far as I can tell, the goal of the fornits forums is to spread awareness. In the spirit of this awareness, I think it would be most helpful for alumni to share experiences; it seems like several people are coming, looking for some kind of closure to a strenuous, confusing journey. I like the anonymity of the forums as I've read the informational side to the school and staff. I don't think any one person contributing here is completely objective nor can possibly be due to the nature of what we're discussing. One thing I don't like (but I guess it's unavoidable) is the ability for someone who graduates tomorrow to instantly find these forums in such a sensitive time; however, that may just be my opinion and others might deem it helpful. In the end, I think we're all here trying to figure something out about our experience--but some may be here just to rag on Carlbrook, or defend it.
I do see Carlbrook as evolving. From what I've heard from the people who've graduated before me, Carlbrook has changed drastically. From what I've heard from people who graduated recently, Carlbrook is still changing drastically. Psy has posted above that he thinks the intentions could be incredible, but may still be abusive. I know this to be true, and I feel like Carlbrook has watered-down a bit of the intense workshop moments and even group moments. I won't say that I'm "scarred" from some of the moments, but I probably won't forget them. What I don't see is Carlbrook moving toward individualization. I wouldn't go far enough and call it "cookie-cutter," but I understand the metaphor. In my experience, the relationships with advisers were highly personal, but I don't think there was enough creativity in the process.
I don't love Carlbrook. I thought I did when I left; ironically, I also thought I hated it, too. It was a very confusing time for me. It's funny that I've chosen to drink after Carlbrook and people really act like it's some form of "sinner's juice" and that I'm drinking liquid death that goes against the entire fabric of what I stood for at Carlbrook. While I've read the definition of "cult" provided, I don't like that choice of word, because it has such a loaded connotation, however I do feel like graduates can really act in a herd mentality, but only time washes away the collective soul; I hesitate to use the word "brainwashed" for the same reason. I say this, and I really haven't been out of the program all that long.
As for Tim Brace, I've read the history of CEDU and the skeleton of the program in circulation today. It seems like Tim has changed his mentality from some of the experiences shared before, but, as Psy has repeated often, he is still carrying around the CEDU model. He's not without fault. My biggest criticism would be that he tries to be everyone's friend too much--which might be quite different from the earlier complaints about him. However, Tim directly helped me, and I think he genuinely wants to help people the full of his extent. I think that is the weird vibe that people get. He's so open and touchy that people don't know how to deal with him.
As for the explanation of "tools" to Psy, the word just refers to anything learned in a workshop--whether a phrase, personal word, (truth; lie; negative statement) small activity, etc.
I'll post more later, but I haven't slept in a while. Feel free to reply. If you don't grace me with respect, I probably won't reply to you at all.
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The bottom line is that this is not an appropriate place to be having these discussions. If you seriously believe that you have been abused, mentally, or in any other way, it needs to be discussed over a long period of time with a trusted professional. Now its very easy to view a trusted professional as one who is going to give you the answers to the conflicts in your head as you want to hear them. Try to find the most objective therapist that you can, and just start talking. He/she can tell you if it was actual abuse based on the way that it has individually effected you since graduating, and then you can work toward resolving whatever conflicts became of it. But vomiting your emotional shit all over an internet webpage, which is interesting mixed with both carlbrook grads (old and new; who had positive or even extremely negative experiences to the point of calling it abuse,) and grads from other schools and perspective parents, not to mention certain posts demonstrating the emotional maturity of a 12 year old on both sides of the fence, this is just bullshit guys and gals. I'm not saying that what you have to say is bullshit. This just isn't the place to do it. Many of you have revealed private information about people that is entirely inappropriate to have done in such a place, made comments that basically discredit your entire point by displaying a truly saddening level of internal conflict. I must say that reading this entire forum, which I just did tonight, from beginning to end, and its now 5 in the morning, has somewhat altered my perspective on Carlbrook. But anything that I take away from this, I am gonna talk about with my therapist, one that I trust, one that has an objective view. O was a grad pf may 06, saw the beginning of suspension, although wasn't a part of it, and therefore cannot comment about the possible damage that it has done to you. And at the same time, I understand that a story of my somewhat positive experience doesn't have anything to do with the Carlbrook that you experienced when in suspension. We all went through it as individuals and experienced individually, which means that nobody can discount the feelings you had while you were there. If you feel like you were abused, then you feel like you were abused. If you feel like you were brainwashed, then you feel like you were brainwashed. If you feel that it was helpful to you, then you feel that it was helpful to you. Only time will truly tell, as long as you engage yourself in introspection alongside an independent source. I feel like the person who said ( sorry I can't remember you username) that they were 41 and only beginning to understand how their program had an effect on them. I will say that I am certain programs were conducted very differently back then and feel that there was a much higher potential for more serious abuse at those programs, and that does not mean that the possible abuse you feel you suffered at carlbrook was any less significant. Just seek objective help, please. Nothing healing is gonna come from this reckless spouting.
To the people who maintained a level of respect in their posts, I thank you. They were a lot let frustrating to read. But for people calling Tim a pedophile, and the earlier comments about him spooning with a kid on the couch, that's just outrageous and childish. Whether Tim does in fact still have problems today and has committed acts that would be deemed as crimes (I did a quite extensive search while reading through this forum to find any evidence that he had, which came up negative but does not totally discount the possibility) by saying that you would be incurring the same type of abuse on him that you are stating the he has done to you. Lets grow up a little bit here. Shouting someone's darkness in their face because they shouted yours in your own face makes you no better than them. Its a child's game. And as for the student he was spooning with, I am pretty sure that that child was me, whether that identifies me here or not, i don't care. But I will say that that was one of the safest times I ever felt at that school. It was a time when I needed my father, the hug from my father that makes me feel like nothing in the world could touch me, but he wasn't there to give it to me, Tim was. And whatever his secret motives might have been, the hug still meant the same thing for me as it would have from Jonathan, or from Hope Bowling, despite her intensely offensive remarks to me on several occasions. I still remember her giving me a hug, out of nowhere, when we were in the middle of not talking, an almost motherly instinct. That's what I felt with Tim at that time. And we were not fucking spooning, you twisted minded fucks. I urge you to stop seeing things the way you want to see them, and start working, with and objective professional, toward seeing them for the way they are. I don't even care if you have tripped 1000 times and your view of reality is so skewed that you hang out with the DMT machine elves. Try to come back. Not to the Carlbrook perspective, but to your own.
Its 5:40 am so time to sign off. Take care everyone. Much love
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So you liked it when he touched you, then.
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So you liked it when he touched you, then.
:shamrock:
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So you liked it when he touched you, then.
:shamrock: :shamrock:
Pile was that necessary......?
Danny
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Pile, you really are fucking sick. The worst I ever felt abused there was by the student's, ones just like you. I will no longer take part in this forum.
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The bottom line is that this is not an appropriate place to be having these discussions. If you seriously believe that you have been abused, mentally, or in any other way, it needs to be discussed over a long period of time with a trusted professional. Now its very easy to view a trusted professional as one who is going to give you the answers to the conflicts in your head as you want to hear them. Try to find the most objective therapist that you can, and just start talking. He/she can tell you if it was actual abuse based on the way that it has individually effected you since graduating, and then you can work toward resolving whatever conflicts became of it. But vomiting your emotional shit all over an internet webpage, which is interesting mixed with both carlbrook grads (old and new; who had positive or even extremely negative experiences to the point of calling it abuse,) and grads from other schools and perspective parents, not to mention certain posts demonstrating the emotional maturity of a 12 year old on both sides of the fence, this is just bullshit guys and gals.
Hmm. Why do you feel compelled to direct others as to how they should deal with their experiences? These are, after all, their experiences, and their parsing of those experiences, at issue here...
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Hmm. Why do you feel compelled to direct others as to how they should deal with their experiences? These are, after all, their experiences, and their parsing of those experiences, at issue here...
Stating the obvious here but......Cuz that's what they're taught to do. Peer counseling dontchaknow.
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Hmm. Why do you feel compelled to direct others as to how they should deal with their experiences? These are, after all, their experiences, and their parsing of those experiences, at issue here...
Stating the obvious here but......Cuz that's what they're taught to do. Peer counseling dontchaknow.
It was kinda supposed to be a rhetorical question... :D
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Hmm. Why do you feel compelled to direct others as to how they should deal with their experiences? These are, after all, their experiences, and their parsing of those experiences, at issue here...
Stating the obvious here but......Cuz that's what they're taught to do. Peer counseling dontchaknow.
It was kinda supposed to be a rhetorical question... :D
:seg2:
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I said that because if you really were abused, then only a professional can help guide you through that pain, not some fucking kids, many of which are bias in the sense that they also feel they were abused. You guys need to learn some psych for fuck sake. I was just urging people to find an objective point of view, not my own, or anyone else in this forum. An objective professional who has been trained to navigate through people's issues (not a carlbrook staff, but a completely unaffiliated entity that you trust). But obviously seems like a lot of you don't want to do that.
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I said that because if you really were abused, then only a professional can help guide you through that pain, not some fucking kids,
Hmmmm, but the programs are always telling us that "kids can help kids". That pesky "peer counseling/therapeutic community" thing again.
many of which are bias in the sense that they also feel they were abused.
Holding the opinion that you were abused makes you biased? Why would that not apply to the converse?
You guys need to learn some psych for fuck sake. I was just urging people to find an objective point of view, not my own, or anyone else in this forum. An objective professional who has been trained to navigate through people's issues (not a carlbrook staff, but a completely unaffiliated entity that you trust). But obviously seems like a lot of you don't want to do that.
Many of us have....and it's a good suggestion but....we've also found that being able to talk to others who went thru the same or similar places was as helpful, if not more because someone who has actually been thru the programs knows what happens behind closed doors.
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We pretty much know what happened to Joseph Burns but what did happen do Brendon Patrick Deasey?
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I said that because if you really were abused, then only a professional can help guide you through that pain, not some fucking kids,
Hmmmm, but the programs are always telling us that "kids can help kids". That pesky "peer counseling/therapeutic community" thing again.
Nail. On. Head.
...many of which are bias in the sense that they also feel they were abused.
Holding the opinion that you were abused makes you biased? Why would that not apply to the converse?
Yup. Touché olé!
You guys need to learn some psych for fuck sake. I was just urging people to find an objective point of view, not my own, or anyone else in this forum. An objective professional who has been trained to navigate through people's issues (not a carlbrook staff, but a completely unaffiliated entity that you trust). But obviously seems like a lot of you don't want to do that.
Many of us have....and it's a good suggestion but....we've also found that being able to talk to others who went thru the same or similar places was as helpful, if not more because someone who has actually been thru the programs knows what happens behind closed doors.
Not to mention that some psych professionals are even of the opinion that therapeutic communities and "positive" peer culture modalities are the latest greatest asset to humanity. Sorry, but that is part of what really messed me up to begin with, and anyone whose mind is already closed to how that can happen, is not liable to be of much help to me.
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Holding the opinion that you were abused makes you biased? Why would that not apply to the converse?
I think he did when he said “Not Carlbrook Staff”. Anyone who has touched a program has a bias. The child whose life was turned around will give their program rave reviews. The child who didn’t do well or was abused would be biased because of it and tell you that the program was ineffective and abusive. A staff member will give his or her own biased opinion of the school or industry.
All the opinions are equally important but the point that formerstudent06 was trying to make (I think) is to allow an unbiased professional navigate the feedback, one who can make an unbiased, professional opinion or assessment of the situation. They would be better equipped to see the bigger picture and accept both sides of the issue equally and therefore be able to come to a better conclusion.
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"Anne Bonney wrote:
formerstudent06 wrote:I said that because if you really were abused, then only a professional can help guide you through that pain, not some fucking kids,
Hmmmm, but the programs are always telling us that "kids can help kids". That pesky "peer counseling/therapeutic community" thing again."
- the programs are telling us that kids can help kids, yes. Are these not the same programs that certain people in this forum have accused of being abusive? And kids can help kids, sure, but without the supervision of a professional, whats to stop the kids from sending other kids in a direction that is actually harmful, not beneficial. The reality is that kids are not trained. That is all that I was saying. If there were a professional administrator in this group that was keeping an eye on the direction of conversation, then I would agree that kids helping kids would be appropriate in this place.
Anne Bonney wrote:
formerstudent06 wrote:...many of which are bias in the sense that they also feel they were abused.
Holding the opinion that you were abused makes you biased? Why would that not apply to the converse?
- people who believe they have been abused, especially ones who actually were, usually harbor a profoundly deep anger, which is not always directed in a positive way. It is not uncommon for someone who was abused to attempt to exact revenge on the perceived abuser, which is the feeling that I have gotten from several posts in this forum. When I say biased, I mean that certain individuals could be speaking from a place of uncontrolled anger, such as calling people pedophiles, making outrageous statements, or any sort of toxic remark toward another person. I would agree that people who have been abused can actually share a common perception, which could bring them closer, understand each other better, and be a positive connection on the road to healing. I am just cautioning people about the "banding" together of frustrated, angry victims of abuse without the direction of a professional who can recognize when things start to get uncontrolled.
Ok I'm done with this place. For the people that it helps, I'm glad that it helps.
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Pile, you really are fucking sick. The worst I ever felt abused there was by the student's, ones just like you. I will no longer take part in this forum.
Liar.
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Just for the record:
The contributor with the username "URSUS" is not a Carlbrook graduate. Please do not mistake him for an alumni with a similar name. That person will never be involved in this type of forum.
Just needed to clear that up.
Thank you.
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formerstudent06 wrote:I said that because if you really were abused, then only a professional can help guide you through that pain, not some fucking kids,
- the programs are telling us that kids can help kids, yes. Are these not the same programs that certain people in this forum have accused of being abusive? And kids can help kids, sure, but without the supervision of a professional, whats to stop the kids from sending other kids in a direction that is actually harmful, not beneficial.
Exactly my point about programs. Kids helping kids....peer pressure, groupthink, absolute power and control over others etc.
The reality is that kids are not trained. That is all that I was saying. If there were a professional administrator in this group that was keeping an eye on the direction of conversation, then I would agree that kids helping kids would be appropriate in this place.
Most of us aren't kids anymore and all we're doing is talking about what helped us, individually, heal from the mindfuck.
- people who believe they have been abused, especially ones who actually were, usually harbor a profoundly deep anger, which is not always directed in a positive way. It is not uncommon for someone who was abused to attempt to exact revenge on the perceived abuser, which is the feeling that I have gotten from several posts in this forum. When I say biased, I mean that certain individuals could be speaking from a place of uncontrolled anger, such as calling people pedophiles, making outrageous statements, or any sort of toxic remark toward another person. I would agree that people who have been abused can actually share a common perception, which could bring them closer, understand each other better, and be a positive connection on the road to healing. I am just cautioning people about the "banding" together of frustrated, angry victims of abuse without the direction of a professional who can recognize when things start to get uncontrolled.
And the ones who are 'washed' might be biased FOR programs. Two sides of the same coin.
Ok I'm done with this place. For the people that it helps, I'm glad that it helps.
There, now that wasn't so hard was it?
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There's recently been a group created on Facebook of Carlbrook Alumni for Accountability in the Troubled Teen Field. I think it's a bit more appropriate, and many people have been pretty objective in their discussion; however, there are also people that now can be victims or have an excuse for actions at and after Carlbrook. It's such an interesting dichotomy when looking for information, because there is no possible way to get one complete answer.
I would have to disagree with a few of the above posts. I don't think I'm here to be counseled by peers or get some cathartic experience. I'm looking for information. I've chosen to do this process on my own. As for the comment that we all need to take some "fucking psych," I have taken a lot of formal research psychology as well as counseling classes, and done plenty of my own personal research. I've made the choice to not seek professional help in this process, because I'd like to do this one on my own; I couldn't allow myself the irony of seeking a professional when my current issues are with professionals in the field. With a professional also comes another opinion on residential treatment, and I'm ready for my own opinion. Also, I think that the idea of "trained professionals" is a bit romanticized and formerstudent06 is a bit overzealous in prescribing this for me.
I'm just along for the ride, at the moment.
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I said that because if you really were abused, then only a professional can help guide you through that pain, not some fucking kids, many of which are bias in the sense that they also feel they were abused. You guys need to learn some psych for fuck sake. I was just urging people to find an objective point of view, not my own, or anyone else in this forum. An objective professional who has been trained to navigate through people's issues (not a carlbrook staff, but a completely unaffiliated entity that you trust). But obviously seems like a lot of you don't want to do that.
lol
I like the new facebook group so much better.
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For those of you who care about these advancements, the "Carlbrook Alumni Association" Facebook group has removed students' permission to post on the wall. The "Carlbrook Students for Accountability and Oversight in the Troubled Teen Field" group has more members than the "Alumni Association." There is also a former adviser asking for insight into what harmed us in the "Accountability" group. Despite the emotions regarding what affected us negatively, I still hold the belief that the intentions are wholeheartedly good; in concordance with this belief, our privileges being revoked shows that the administration is listening to the concerns. It will be interesting to see if there is some sort of staff response. For those of you who don't care, please continue your day as usual.
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Thanks Free_Speech, I think it is great that the students are forming these alumni groups. This gives the kids a chance to reunite with each other and air any beefs they had with the school and to also be able to talk about the good times. It also gives the schools/programs some insight into any areas which they could improve upon. So this acts as a great feed back system.
I have noticed this is happening spontaneously more and more with many Therapeutic Boarding schools. It’s a plus for those regulars here on fornits because it exposes any potential abuse that might have occurred and can potentially put to bed (or expose) any allegations of wide spread abuse in specific programs.
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Thanks Free_Speech, I think it is great that the students are forming these alumni groups. This gives the kids a chance to reunite with each other and air any beefs they had with the school and to also be able to talk about the good times. It also gives the schools/programs some insight into any areas which they could improve upon. So this acts as a great feed back system.
I have noticed this is happening spontaneously more and more with many Therapeutic Boarding schools. It’s a plus for those regulars here on fornits because it exposes any potential abuse that might have occurred and can potentially put to bed (or expose) any allegations of wide spread abuse in specific programs.
Riiiiiiiiight. And the fact that "the 'Carlbrook Alumni Association' Facebook group has removed students' permission to post on the wall" should tell you something about just how "open" Carlbrook is to constructive criticism.
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Thanks Free_Speech, I think it is great that the students are forming these alumni groups. This gives the kids a chance to reunite with each other and air any beefs they had with the school and to also be able to talk about the good times. It also gives the schools/programs some insight into any areas which they could improve upon. So this acts as a great feed back system.
I have noticed this is happening spontaneously more and more with many Therapeutic Boarding schools. It’s a plus for those regulars here on fornits because it exposes any potential abuse that might have occurred and can potentially put to bed (or expose) any allegations of wide spread abuse in specific programs.
Riiiiiiiiight. And the fact that "the 'Carlbrook Alumni Association' Facebook group has removed students' permission to post on the wall" should tell you something about just how "open" Carlbrook is to constructive criticism.
Depends on what they were banned for: flooding? posting porno? Maybe they set up specific forum rules that were not adhered to. We would need to take a look at the reasons before judging that.
But that aside I think we can agree that the open dialog is a plus for everyone. Its a very positive and encouraging step.
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Depends on what they were banned for: flooding? posting porno?
It looks like just a couple of links posted challenging Carlbrooks use of aggressive group therapy got the wall shut down. It was initially deleted and there was a response asking why.. it was 4 or 5 posts that were very simple... and then the wall was gone.
Now... here's what the facebook group says:
Description:This is a private group restricted to Carlbrook faculty and student alumni. It is intended as a forum for open discussion, support, feedback and general updates. Welcome.
notice... feedback. maybe not so much?
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Depends on what they were banned for: flooding? posting porno?
It looks like just a couple of links posted challenging Carlbrooks use of aggressive group therapy got the wall shut down. It was initially deleted and there was a response asking why.. it was 4 or 5 posts that were very simple... and then the wall was gone.
Now... here's what the facebook group says:
Description:This is a private group restricted to Carlbrook faculty and student alumni. It is intended as a forum for open discussion, support, feedback and general updates. Welcome.
notice... feedback. maybe not so much?
Thanks Cooltherapy, Thats how it should be and I think it is good that they are reaching out for open discussion and feed back. I think we all know that sometimes the discussion can get personal and facebook groups dont have the personnel to delete or move posts which run off topic to different areas or easily deal with posts which are intended to hurt others.
I have seen a few other facebook groups which are doing the same thing and aside from a few posters intent to disrupt the group and feedback is working out well.
Hopefully they will rethink the rules and how they go about accepting people and then reopen the wall to discussion.
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I think that they see the picture that people are unhappy. I don't see them removing privileges necessarily as a bad thing, at this point. Maybe they are getting organized for something, because I think they have a lot at stake at this point. Stay tuned.
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Depends on what they were banned for: flooding? posting porno?
It looks like just a couple of links posted challenging Carlbrooks use of aggressive group therapy got the wall shut down. It was initially deleted and there was a response asking why.. it was 4 or 5 posts that were very simple... and then the wall was gone.
Now... here's what the facebook group says:
Description:This is a private group restricted to Carlbrook faculty and student alumni. It is intended as a forum for open discussion, support, feedback and general updates. Welcome.
notice... feedback. maybe not so much?
Sounds like Carlbrook has a special definition for "open discussion" that is not exactly open.
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Depends on what they were banned for: flooding? posting porno?
It looks like just a couple of links posted challenging Carlbrooks use of aggressive group therapy got the wall shut down. It was initially deleted and there was a response asking why.. it was 4 or 5 posts that were very simple... and then the wall was gone.
Now... here's what the facebook group says:
Description:This is a private group restricted to Carlbrook faculty and student alumni. It is intended as a forum for open discussion, support, feedback and general updates. Welcome.
notice... feedback. maybe not so much?
Sounds like Carlbrook has a special definition for "open discussion" that is not exactly open.
This idea was floated a few years ago here on fornits but was quickly discarded because everyone was under the impression that programs were too secretive to seek feedback or have a forum of alumni. If you were sincere about wanting open communication with the programs you would be crediting them with their attempts to seek feedback.
Imagine if they had a poster like Niles or Pile show up to disrupt the forum with little or no intention to contribute. They would need to remove the poster for the sake of the discussion. Fornits’ “open Discussion” is not exactly open either. There are rules that need to be followed.. no personal attacks, must stay on topic etc.
I would think that you would be pushing for fornits to open up to that level before criticizing others if you really felt it was necessary. My suspicion is that you dont want the programs to seek feedback because this would disqualify them from being categorized as a cult and show them in a better light, but I may be wrong.
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My problem with "cult" is that it's a severely loaded word; I've been reading Fornits for a while, and I don't think that the contributors here believe that this school has good intentions, when I believe it does. I can't imagine posters here having a fulfilling conversation with members of the Carlbrook administration. Something has to come from the current happenings; if they ignore us, only bad will come of it, I think.
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My problem with "cult" is that it's a severely loaded word; I've been reading Fornits for a while, and I don't think that the contributors here believe that this school has good intentions, when I believe it does. I can't imagine posters here having a fulfilling conversation with members of the Carlbrook administration. Something has to come from the current happenings; if they ignore us, only bad will come of it, I think.
You hit on some key issues that many here have with the industry. There is such an ingrained perception that these programs are abusive that many have closed off pretty much any open minded discussion on the subject. Many would be more apt to try to disrupt any constructive dialog with a program in fear of them realizing that these programs listen and adjust based on feedback from alumni. I have seen this first hand so I know that programs intentions are sincere.
I believe if Calbrook can open the wall up to constructive discussion and keep the disruptive posters off the wall somehow I think they will reopen the wall. Fornits has moderators who quickly remove posts from the thread if they are attacking someone or run off topic. I don’t know if the Calbrook facebook has this type of support (or capability) in place so they will have to take a different route to help keep the posts on topic. Maybe facebook isn’t the best platform to host that particular type of discussion.
This has been great information free.speech. Thanks for keeping us informed.
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There are less than 200 people in the group... and rarely is there a post on the wall. I don't think they're having difficulty with people attacking or spamming.
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My problem with "cult" is that it's a severely loaded word; I've been reading Fornits for a while, and I don't think that the contributors here believe that this school has good intentions, when I believe it does. I can't imagine posters here having a fulfilling conversation with members of the Carlbrook administration. Something has to come from the current happenings; if they ignore us, only bad will come of it, I think.
For me it doesn't matter whether or not Tim brace the former prostitute and Grant Price his probable CEDU teen lover have "good intentions". Ted Bundy had "good intentions". At issue is that they're abusive kidnappers pretending to provide therapy, while having no license to provide therapy, to start with... A list of their abuses would be mind blowing in length and degree of evil. Cult is a pretty good word for that place, but its just a word. I agree that nothing can be fulfilling on fornits because of the anonymity problems,but also that nothing fulfilling can come about as long as all that we do is bound to the internet. It should be soon time to take the next steps, for me.
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My problem with "cult" is that it's a severely loaded word; I've been reading Fornits for a while, and I don't think that the contributors here believe that this school has good intentions, when I believe it does. I can't imagine posters here having a fulfilling conversation with members of the Carlbrook administration. Something has to come from the current happenings; if they ignore us, only bad will come of it, I think.
For me it doesn't matter whether or not Tim brace the former prostitute and Grant Price his probable CEDU teen lover have "good intentions". Ted Bundy had "good intentions". At issue is that they're abusive kidnappers pretending to provide therapy, while having no license to provide therapy, to start with... A list of their abuses would be mind blowing in length and degree of evil. Cult is a pretty good word for that place, but its just a word. I agree that nothing can be fulfilling on fornits because of the anonymity problems,but also that nothing fulfilling can come about as long as all that we do is bound to the internet. It should be soon time to take the next steps, for me.
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I don't think we could really compare Tim and Grant to Ted Bundy; And, you call them evil. They really do have good intentions. Grant, Justin, and Jim formed the school to do it differently from Cascade. However, they didn't ditch enough of the CEDU stuff in the process. "prostitute" and "teen lover" won't really help. Are you a Carlbrook grad? I'm willing to have respectful discussion, but that stuff is a little over-the-top. I like objective. I like empirical.
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lol I think we can all see at least one reason why they had to take the wall down. There are people who are afraid to converse openly and intend only to disrupt communication ^^^^
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What kind of support can leading members of fornits give Carlbrook students who are deciding to take legal action? There has been some talk and a bit of research but it seems that everyone is pretty lost when it comes to how to approach this.
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Google this person:
Phil Elberg..
good luck.
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Just something that I posted on a blog earlier... thought that it might be relevant on fornits, too....
It took me over three years post-graduation from Carlbrook to realize what was done to me. For all of the grads/parents of grads posting shortly after graduation... JUST WAIT! Things change. Once the nightmares set in, you'll see. That's when it became clear to me.
I've been gone for nearly 5 years and still have nightmares 2 or 3 times a week.
I think that parents get on these blogs and forums to try and convince one another that they didn't make a serious mistake. You guys HAVE to believe in Carlbrook because of what it would mean if the school was, in fact, abusive. I can't imagine how that would feel - but I do know that once my parents finally heard me and accepted that maybe their view on what *I* went through for a year and a half wasn't correct, I felt so relieved.
I don't know a damned thing about Monarch but I am RELIEVED that your kid isn't at Carlbrook. A week long visit was unheard of at that school.
To recent Carlbrook grads who are surfing the internet and trying to find some support: be patient with yourself. You will not understand what has happened for a while. Don't pass judgement on anyone who has a negative view simply because you disagree. I burned a lot of bridges this way when I first graduated. There is a support group on facebook titled "Carlbrook Student's for Accountability and Oversight in Troubled Teen Field." When you are ready, join us.
Parents thinking about Carlbrook: READ THE DISCUSSION BOARDS ON THIS GROUP. I was an extremely successful student... most of this information is not coming from your standard "trouble maker."
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Just something that I posted on a blog earlier... thought that it might be relevant on fornits, too....
It took me over three years post-graduation from Carlbrook to realize what was done to me. For all of the grads/parents of grads posting shortly after graduation... JUST WAIT! Things change. Once the nightmares set in, you'll see. That's when it became clear to me.
I've been gone for nearly 5 years and still have nightmares 2 or 3 times a week.
I think that parents get on these blogs and forums to try and convince one another that they didn't make a serious mistake. You guys HAVE to believe in Carlbrook because of what it would mean if the school was, in fact, abusive. I can't imagine how that would feel - but I do know that once my parents finally heard me and accepted that maybe their view on what *I* went through for a year and a half wasn't correct, I felt so relieved.
I don't know a damned thing about Monarch but I am RELIEVED that your kid isn't at Carlbrook. A week long visit was unheard of at that school.
To recent Carlbrook grads who are surfing the internet and trying to find some support: be patient with yourself. You will not understand what has happened for a while. Don't pass judgement on anyone who has a negative view simply because you disagree. I burned a lot of bridges this way when I first graduated. There is a support group on facebook titled "Carlbrook Student's for Accountability and Oversight in Troubled Teen Field" (I know, the grammar on that is terrible but it's too late to change - not my mistake)... when you are ready, join us.
Parents thinking about Carlbrook: READ THE DISCUSSION BOARDS ON THIS GROUP. I was an extremely successful student... most of this information is not coming from your standard "trouble maker."
Wow...it still amazes me how so many of our experiences are so similar. I was considered a 'success' too. I 'graduated' the program (certainly not school, because of the program) and for a while, swore it 'saved my life'. Then I woke up. It takes longer for the parents to have that awakening, and sadly some never do.
Welcome and thanks for posting.
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Thank you!
I did some more looking around last night... I found that Carlbrook has replied to an organization called "Family Light" which had questioned some of their practices.
http://www.familylight.com/link3/3.03/3 ... ok_rep.htm (http://www.familylight.com/link3/3.03/3.032/BC/carlbrook_rep.htm)
these responses (and the document that is attached under the response to Concern #6 (It says: "*NOTE: With the goal of providing a more detailed discussion of the various benefits derived from the workshop model employed by Carlbrook, a document recently drafted by the school’s clinical team has been attached to this response.") have so many claims that, while they may be true now - I've been gone for a good chunk of time, were NOT true when I attended the school.
I'm drafting a letter to send off to Family Light - although they appear to have eaten it up.
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Anybody interested in Carlbrook please visit the site http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=121154957908461 (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=121154957908461). It is a public facebook forum that discusses Carlbrook and in which people are not anonymous, thus seeks to eliminate some of the more colorful and less productive aspects trends that occur on this one. If anybody is interested in documenting what went on at Carlbrook and taking it beyond the internet (not necessarily to the courts but gaining more legitimacy for our concern) I am attempting to collect sworn affidavits about the events that went on that aim to capture the truth. If you have told the truth you can use the accounts you've already made on this site and have them notarized. It is relatively easy to do this at a bank. Collecting affidavits of what went on there is important because obviously the extreme level of discontent coupled with severity and volume of accusations merits at least some sort of review by a state agency, the courts, or a specialist in mediation/arbitration. Tell the truth and don't exaggerate in any affidavits or you will be subject to perjury. You are also potentially sacrificing anonymity. You can either post your account on the facebook website or you can send it to my e-mail, [email protected]. I personally am glad that I went to Carlbrook in the long run. Less because of what Carlbrook did but because I did need a change of environment. There are good people there and it saddens me that their employment may be threatened by irresponsible and reckless decisions of their superiors. I do honestly believe every single person, aside from maybe one or two was convinced that they were helping us. However, this issue is bigger then whether you liked Carlbrook or the people there. This is about what is acceptable to do to people, no matter what they have done, against their will. This is about the type of breakdown that happens in many organizations that suffer from a closed, secretive management. There were several things that were unacceptable, regardless of your experience.
What was unacceptable was that Grant Price and others who ran groups and made explicitly "therapeutic decisions" has no formal training, education or certification to be providing mental health services (which is exactly what running a group therapy is doing). Carlbrook is not held to any standards in the provision of such services and that is a problem. There are a reason standards and regulations exist in this field (even if they have problems of their own). I think even those who cherished the experience realize that a lot of what went on was not OK and though intentions may not have been malicious by any party, kids were hurt and traumatized by the purposely constructed environment of acute stress and anxiety. Even if you could "take it" some couldn't. People are different. A one size fits all approach of breaking people down and building their identity back up may be useful in forming a cohesive military unit but it is not in treating kids for problems that in many instances are related to stress and anxiety in the first place. Creating an environment with the level of intensity and stress that Carlbrook did obviously will have different effects on different types of people. The degree of emotional invasiveness can also not be underestimated. Forcing people to disclose things they don't want to is simply unethical. Plain and simple. I see this as not an issue of whether or not you liked Carlbrook or certain people there. I see this as an issue of Carlbrook making egregious and harmful administrative errors and being held accountable like any other organization that provided you sub-standard services. If Johnson & Johnson sells defective Tylenol, like they did, they are held to account. Carlbrook purposely humiliated kids, engaged in arbitrary and bizarre punishment and the therapeutic relationships and incentives are certainly highly unethical if not illegal. I would like to know for certain if they are and what potential damage might have been inflicted. I would like to know if Carlbrook gave kids Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome which is a condition that worsens with age. I personally am not OK with so much of what went on at Carlbrook and think that a lack of accountability for past events or sweeping what happened "under the rug" would set a terrible precedent and would only encourage others to provide even worse services to kids. Carlbrook is attempting to legitimize and dilute a form of treatment that has been roundly rejected by medical professionals, the courts, and state agencies. Please join me in writing and notarizing an affidavit.
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I found out that Tim Brace, the former director of Rocky Mountain Academy, my alma mater, was running Carlbrook. I saw him recently at our reunion and must say he hasn't changed since 1986 when I graduated. I was curious how similar the program was to my experience at RMA and it appears that the program is very similar, just the terminology has changed. I would be curious to find from former students, how similar.
If you have not seen these documentaries, you might want to check them out. There are 12 or so of them and their portrayal of the program is very similar to my experience:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeFWCzLNCmY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeFWCzLNCmY)
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Carlbrook is very, very similar to these documentaries. Scarily so. At least it was 6 years ago when I was there.
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i went there in 09 and tim brace was the most loving man i haveever known and idk what the hell everyone is saying about him beeing abusive kuz i never cud c him doing that and im not gungho bout the school i left early wen i turned 18 but although alot about myself ddnt rlly help me in the "real world"
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dude, i was laughin too hard last night to reply to this post. this so called trauma you kids went through is poetically hilarious. i was the first student to step through the door of that school, and noone there was there for forgetting to tie their shoe laces. only in the united states would a teenager break the law, defy their parents, treat their school administrator like shit, and expect to be served dinner on a silver platter. the traumatizing sleep deprivation was maybe a 12 hour group therapy, i guess that is way worse than a hard cock in your ass at prison. you guys are so spoiled. i guess your parents should of got on their knees when they begged you not to ditch school, then you would of listened. please reply to this post because i would love to hear all your stories about how you were scarred for life. its no mystery to who i am. so if your plees are so legitamite why dont you grow some balls and tell the police instead of hiding in an internet post. first caller i will pay 50 bucks if they let me tag along to listen to the report. i live in LA so let me know if your local and ready to do this.
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(http://https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQggc3eBUMaSkzAZyBjIVCTd8aVhFoQ_3AHesXWM3J1MFeoGxDYvg)
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I'm having a hard time understanding why you would like to be a part of the whistle-blowing activities if you feel this way... But this being said, all of your "suggestions" have been done. And lawyers have been talked to. Statute of limitations is an issue - as is the lack of a class action lawsuit in Virginia.
I was diagnosed with PTSD by more than one doctor after I graduated. Whether you think that the school is harsh or not, there is no reason a child should suffer with PTSD after attending boarding school. It is inappropriate.
No one compared this to jail. No one said that it was worse. No one said that all of the kids at Carlbrook were well behaved or deserved any sort of *special* treatment... but I don't think it's wrong to expect that the students be treated as humans. Students should have the right to refuse to partake in exercises. Students should have the right to communicate whatever they need to their parents. My calls were monitored and cut off if the staff felt that I was crossing any "boundaries." I was punished for speaking openly with my father about my feelings towards the school 12 months into the program. I was honor council, d-com, friends com, etc. But I was not permitted to discuss any grievances.
I got sick while there and was denied prompt medical treatment. The issue developed quickly and when I finally made it to the doctor, I needed an ultrasound to ensure that I hadn't developed breast cancer. My parents weren't informed until they received a bill in the mail for the ultrasound.
Whether you think it's morally wrong or not, depriving minors of sleep is not a legal activity. 12 hour therapy marathons have not been proven to work in any setting. And I'm going to be bold here and point out that it doesn't appear to be working for Carlbrook, either. Many of the students I attended with have since committed suicide or ODed. This occurs far too often.
Bottom line: Carlbrook has some illegal practices. There are many staff members who are unlicensed and overseeing therapeutic exercises. You lose all rights when you are signed into the school and your parents don't *truly* know what's going on there until well after you've graduated.
The secrecy, money, and "therapeutics" all need to be reviewed by someone who is trained to do so. Hopefully this will happen. Tons of schools just like Carlbrook have been shut down for doing the exact activities that Carlbrook partakes in.
So, your opinion has been heard... but unfortunately for Carlbrook, the legal system likely will disagree with it if their cover is ever blown. Here's to hoping that it is.
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i bet you do have nightmares about carlbrook. welcome to the world. i have nightmares about everything from public highschool to my current boss screaming at me. i have had so many friends that have died but i don't blame it on the highschool they went to. just like you guys said grant price sold carlbrook like a care salesman, so did your lawyer that you have a case, and your doctor that you have trauma from carlbrook( let me guess, you managed to squeeze some pills out of him to treat your ailment? i guess some things never change, once a con-artist, always a con-artist). one of the reasons i think you guys are spoiled isnt because you got everything you needed, but because you truelly beleive the world owes you its love and compassion. sooner or later you will all have to get a job to support yourself. when you do, you will be blessed with a boss who doesnt give a fuck about how you feel. and despite the fact that he treats you inhumanely, perhaps lawsuit worthy, you will still have to kiss his ass to keep your job. what startles me is that i felt so much love fro
the staff at carlbrook, and it was quite an adjustment when i came out to a world of survival of the fittest. which leads me to beleive that if you guys couldn't see how much the staff wanted to help you, you have a big surprise coming your way in the real world.
so go on, what are the other greivances. the phone call was only 10 minutes long which gave you home sickness disorder. the dorm windows had alarms which caused paranoid schizophrenia of being locked up. enlighten me
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No interest in having a pissing contest with you. But so that you have a better idea of who I am, I'll give you few details of my current life. I worked my ass off as an undergrad, took time off working two jobs. Am back in school for a PhD in neuroscience. I get paid for my work and have jumped endless hurdles to get here. I don't expect anything from anyone. I rely on myself. I am on no meds, no drugs. Occasional glass of wine after a long day. I think clearly and often about my time at the school and have love and respect for much of the staff. I do not have respect for the money grubbing. I do not have respect for the forced activities. I do not have respect for Carlbrook as a money making institution. I think it should be monitored because everyone has rights. Even spoiled, snot nosed kids.
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(http://https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRg9gmkj-nPC-I8xkJtW5Q0uLlAnDyD92U9aW1DGw5oSNfYEMb0)
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i bet you do have nightmares about carlbrook. welcome to the world. i have nightmares about everything from public highschool to my current boss screaming at me. i have had so many friends that have died but i don't blame it on the highschool they went to. just like you guys said grant price sold carlbrook like a care salesman, so did your lawyer that you have a case, and your doctor that you have trauma from carlbrook( let me guess, you managed to squeeze some pills out of him to treat your ailment? i guess some things never change, once a con-artist, always a con-artist). one of the reasons i think you guys are spoiled isnt because you got everything you needed, but because you truelly beleive the world owes you its love and compassion. sooner or later you will all have to get a job to support yourself. when you do, you will be blessed with a boss who doesnt give a fuck about how you feel. and despite the fact that he treats you inhumanely, perhaps lawsuit worthy, you will still have to kiss his ass to keep your job. what startles me is that i felt so much love fro
the staff at carlbrook, and it was quite an adjustment when i came out to a world of survival of the fittest. which leads me to beleive that if you guys couldn't see how much the staff wanted to help you, you have a big surprise coming your way in the real world.
so go on, what are the other greivances. the phone call was only 10 minutes long which gave you home sickness disorder. the dorm windows had alarms which caused paranoid schizophrenia of being locked up. enlighten me
You can't be enlightened because you've decided to live in the darkness. Many do. It's not your fault, some choose to side with the abuser. This is the nature of fools, or cowards. It's your lot in life to figure out which one you are and change it
Accept it and you'll die without ever having lived.
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i have no response for horatio, partially because im tired of writing in this post, or you can beleive that i accept your answer as my truth if it makes you feel better.
however, for cooltherapy, in trusting that what you say about your life is true, i have to ask you why you are doing this? i say this respectfully now. i made the mistake of grouping all of you as whining brats. however, if you are truelly self-made as you have explained why would you waste your time pursuing carlbrook in some legal contest? there is so many things more important to do then live in resent of that which is unimportant. i was vile before, now i say with respect, carlbrook had some mistakes, but only threw the actions of individuals. your ultrasound situation could of happened at any school. but it should cost the job of the supervisor, not the entire school. theraputic boarding schools, in my opinion were set-up to babysit because the child could not be controlled by the parent. and they do their job well. if you take out the tbs then there is no median between freedom and prison (in short). now some people in this forum have personally attacked ti
brace. i would trust him with my life. that is why i know the posts are delusional. so i ask again, if the freedom to talk to your parents was so imperative, why did your parents admit you? everything was cut and dry prior to admission. why would you spend your time and energy to pursue this any further?
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i have no response for horatio, partially because im tired of writing in this post, or you can beleive that i accept your answer as my truth if it makes you feel better.
however, for cooltherapy, in trusting that what you say about your life is true, i have to ask you why you are doing this? i say this respectfully now. i made the mistake of grouping all of you as whining brats. however, if you are truelly self-made as you have explained why would you waste your time pursuing carlbrook in some legal contest? there is so many things more important to do then live in resent of that which is unimportant. i was vile before, now i say with respect, carlbrook had some mistakes, but only threw the actions of individuals. your ultrasound situation could of happened at any school. but it should cost the job of the supervisor, not the entire school. theraputic boarding schools, in my opinion were set-up to babysit because the child could not be controlled by the parent. and they do their job well. if you take out the tbs then there is no median between freedom and prison (in short). now some people in this forum have personally attacked ti
brace. i would trust him with my life. that is why i know the posts are delusional. so i ask again, if the freedom to talk to your parents was so imperative, why did your parents admit you? everything was cut and dry prior to admission. why would you spend your time and energy to pursue this any further?
Here's a question: Why is it any of your business?
Come in here with your foul mouth and horseshit accusations. Then, your complain "Oooh, my boss yells at me"
Who cares? You're an idiot
Get a real job. Learn to spell. That might help
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i have no response for horatio, partially because im tired of writing in this post, or you can beleive that i accept your answer as my truth if it makes you feel better.
however, for cooltherapy, in trusting that what you say about your life is true, i have to ask you why you are doing this? i say this respectfully now. i made the mistake of grouping all of you as whining brats. however, if you are truelly self-made as you have explained why would you waste your time pursuing carlbrook in some legal contest? there is so many things more important to do then live in resent of that which is unimportant. i was vile before, now i say with respect, carlbrook had some mistakes, but only threw the actions of individuals. your ultrasound situation could of happened at any school. but it should cost the job of the supervisor, not the entire school. theraputic boarding schools, in my opinion were set-up to babysit because the child could not be controlled by the parent. and they do their job well. if you take out the tbs then there is no median between freedom and prison (in short). now some people in this forum have personally attacked ti
brace. i would trust him with my life. that is why i know the posts are delusional. so i ask again, if the freedom to talk to your parents was so imperative, why did your parents admit you? everything was cut and dry prior to admission. why would you spend your time and energy to pursue this any further?
There's a simple solution to your problems :suicide:
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Knock it off Danny
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however, for cooltherapy, in trusting that what you say about your life is true, i have to ask you why you are doing this? i say this respectfully now. i made the mistake of grouping all of you as whining brats. however, if you are truelly self-made as you have explained why would you waste your time pursuing carlbrook in some legal contest? there is so many things more important to do then live in resent of that which is unimportant. i was vile before, now i say with respect, carlbrook had some mistakes, but only threw the actions of individuals. your ultrasound situation could of happened at any school. but it should cost the job of the supervisor, not the entire school. theraputic boarding schools, in my opinion were set-up to babysit because the child could not be controlled by the parent. and they do their job well. if you take out the tbs then there is no median between freedom and prison (in short). now some people in this forum have personally attacked tim brace. i would trust him with my life. that is why i know the posts are delusional. so i ask again, if the freedom to talk to your parents was so imperative, why did your parents admit you? everything was cut and dry prior to admission. why would you spend your time and energy to pursue this any further?
Bryan,
I do this because of the nights I've spent awake worrying about it. Some of my friends think it's a little absurd, others completely behind me. It's irrelevant to me how people feel about it. I had nightmares pretty regularly for 5 years after I graduated. It took 6 different counselors before I found the guy who ultimately saved me from those dreams. I haven't had a nightmare in 6 months (when he said I was ready to move on and didn't need to see him anymore). Why did it take so much effort and so many years to get through that? PTSD.
What really keeps me up at night... and the reason that I put forth the energy now... is the thought of kids who are there right now. No, not everyone will have the same response that I did. Not everyone is quite so sensitive. But for the few who are... (those who feel trapped and spend 16+ months biting their tongue when they felt things were unfair only to leave the school feeling hollow, censored, and weak) ...I'm going to say my piece.
I felt WEAK after I left. I arrived at Carlbrook VERY extroverted, outgoing, wild... I dabbled in drugs, skipped a lot of school, and ignored my parents' requests. I needed to be pushed in an alternate direction - but not at the cost of losing my identity. I started college right after leaving Carlbrook and felt isolated from my peers. I was shy, very quiet, and thus, made no friends. I dated a series of men who took advantage of my weakness. This furthered my negative self-image.
It is taking time but I am finally able to interact with large groups of people. I have a very nice group of friends... many don't know anything about my life before graduate school. It's difficult to talk about... and, frankly, everyone has an opinion and thinks they can fix me. It makes it worse. Not many people go through the bizarre things that we did. And regardless of whether you believe that they were abusive or fair... that shit was fucking strange. Have you watched Jesus Camp? It made me sick.
So that's why I take time out of my severely busy schedule to make a point to hold this school accountable. Regardless of whether we had close relationships with the staff members, there is so much behind the scenes that, as students, we were unaware of.
And this is where I hop on my soapbox.. Forgive me if you know this... but I've learned this through years of research and chatting with various CBK teachers, ex-teachers, staff, ex-staff, graduates, graduates of other programs...etc.........
Tim Brace? Yeah... What he doesn't mention to us in Monday Assembly is that he's been involved in AT LEAST 5 schools that have been shut down by various state governments. He is not alone. Many of the board members' names pop up affiliated with schools that have since been deemed abusive. You can say they were different? These staff members changed their practices to better fit into the standards of our modern day society? No. Read the workshop scripts. They. Are. Identical. Speak with the graduates of these other institutions, some of whom are now into their 40s. Same experience. Same staff. Same nightmares. Same fucking situation. Check out the CEDU documentaries on YouTube. You'll hear your beloved Tim Brace's name mentioned a few times in there. More importantly, chat with the people who created those videos... you'll hear even more when they're not on tape.
The school's caring nature? Nah. Call up Hope Bowling, Stephen Davidson, Mama Saunders.... they'll tell you how much the school cares about peoples' livelihoods. Teachers are fired with absolutely NO NOTICE and are often not given an explanation (not required by VA law). New staff members were hired on at 1/2 the pay. But, truth is, many of these (more recent) ex-teachers/ex-advisers won't say anything to you. This is because Carlbrook had them sign a waiver for 6 months severance to never speak about the school again. To receive these moneys (which many of them are desperate for because of the SHITTY economy in South Side Virginia) it is mandated that they do not speak to former students, former staff members, sometimes current staff members, or even ABOUT Carlbrook to unrelated parties.
If that isn't worrisome enough... why don't you give them a call and ask for your records? Not the application forms... the BINDER that they kept in the Carriage House that contained all of your therapeutics, health, etc. If you graduated before 2009, they will not have it for you. 2008 and earlier graduates' information was shredded by the staff when they first started to hear murmuring from former students. I could give you further details of this, but I am not sure if there are current employees who could be damaged by the information.
This isn't even getting into the workshops, groups, negative sculptures, stumps, suspension, etc.... and I won't go there tonight. Mostly because I think that it's a waste of time. Some people liked that stuff, others didn't. But the points mentioned above SHOULD worry you. They should make you think. They should make you question the people who you're holding so close to your heart.
And, as someone mentioned above, you can chose to continue to ignore this. That's fine with me. I'm not looking for allies. I'm not looking for someone to join my "crusade." I'm just looking for Carlbrook to be held accountable for once. It's time for them to write their own honor list. All of the board members and higher-up advising staff should be on permanent stumps. A handful should be in prison for fraud. The rest of them? They're lost in the romance of it all. And it's hard not to be. It's hard to evaluate yourself... hard to admit that you could be causing damage.
Anyway, signing off. Maybe this helps give you a clearer view of why I might feel so passionately about this. I know it certainly helped me to sit and write it.
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It will be nice to have a ton of cash to lick the wounds for you. Never hurts :roflmao:
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ill leave one last post. my stay had a very positive effect on my life. but like you already know, that is irrelevant. what you guys are asking for is orthodox treatment for unorthodox kids. you have all managed to find loopholes in the system, such as a meeting goin 5 hours past ten to become sleep dep. and grant coming in on workshops (as if any joe can't teach the win-win scenario in amacitias). im sure you could find more things to build a case if you looked hard enough. just because something is illegal doesnt make it unmoral. likewise, and more importantly, just because something is uncomfortable doesnt make it harmful. the schools treatment of their staff has nothing to do with the students. that will never change. and their pay rate is even more so irrelevant in court. the idea that a school opened up to make money is no shock. what really bums me is that this country has gotten too soft becauses situations like this. while once there was a belt, now in california you can only use an open palm to spank, without any object at all. teenagers, being old enough to make life changing decisions, and young enough to do it recklessly without thought, are becoming increasingly more difficult to handle with the dwindling treatment options. there was one program in the 60's that allowed the kids to fight it out in a boxing ring instead of with bare fists. now days we shun this outlet so much it becomes repressed into a psycological torment. now carlbrook, without physical harm, found ways to get anger out in those mock-up scream things they did, and they found ways to get teenagers to talk about about their issues by wearing down all their walls in long lasting group therapy. they successfully shook the very foundation of each kid hard enough to open them up. for that i am grateful.
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ill leave one last post. my stay had a very positive effect on my life. but like you already know, that is irrelevant. what you guys are asking for is orthodox treatment for unorthodox kids. you have all managed to find loopholes in the system, such as a meeting goin 5 hours past ten to become sleep dep. and grant coming in on workshops (as if any joe can't teach the win-win scenario in amacitias). im sure you could find more things to build a case if you looked hard enough. just because something is illegal doesnt make it unmoral. likewise, and more importantly, just because something is uncomfortable doesnt make it harmful. the schools treatment of their staff has nothing to do with the students. that will never change. and their pay rate is even more so irrelevant in court. the idea that a school opened up to make money is no shock. what really bums me is that this country has gotten too soft becauses situations like this. while once there was a belt, now in california you can only use an open palm to spank, without any object at all. teenagers, being old enough to make life changing decisions, and young enough to do it recklessly without thought, are becoming increasingly more difficult to handle with the dwindling treatment options. there was one program in the 60's that allowed the kids to fight it out in a boxing ring instead of with bare fists. now days we shun this outlet so much it becomes repressed into a psycological torment. now carlbrook, without physical harm, found ways to get anger out in those mock-up scream things they did, and they found ways to get teenagers to talk about about their issues by wearing down all their walls in long lasting group therapy. they successfully shook the very foundation of each kid hard enough to open them up. for that i am grateful.
You sound like a sexually repressed homosexual. Did your mother molest you? Is your boss banging you on the side to keep your job?
P.S. I second the "learn to spell" What kind of school can't teach you fucking morons the simplest things?
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none ya, if you want to second the "learn to spell", you might also wanna put a period after those parentheses. in the "big boy world" it isn't possible to make a point while contradicting yourself. but im sure you will make a big difference for the world when you show up to court, guns blazing about all the child abuse you have been through, yet having no scars? without any evidence you might actually have to think for yourself in order to build a case.
calling the defense lawyer a homosexual wont work either. good luck to you all. to make a case you have to have some kind of evidence. unfortunatly for you, carlbrook never molested you, beat you, or anything else worthy of a scandal. the only truama you have to stand on is goin to bed at 3 in the morning, not talking to your parents, and sympathy for staff who didnt get paid enough. dude, you guys should make documentary about it! it would be very popular in beverely hills and all of orange county im sure. it might lose interest in the inner city communities though. 14 yo gangbangers shooting the town up takes precedence over a 14 yo who is on "bans" from talking to his friends lol
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Carlbrook is founded by graduates of a closed school Cascade because of the way they treated kids. The school operates very much the same as that school did only they make it all look good. To top it off, Grant, one of the founders is drunk all the time. When I left this school I finally got my life back and feel sorry for those who are still there.
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My son graduated from Carlbrook school after completing their 15 month program. Skeptical as I am, and frightened as I was to send my child away, I have not a single doubt about the integrity of the school. It was a hard place to be - no TV, no computer, no drugs, sex, and rock n roll... but the people there were the most compassionate, nurturing people, and the best therapists I've encountered in my career as a parent and as an educator/counselor. My son maintians close friendships with both students and staff and is now doing very well in college.
Is there an element of mind contol? Yeah, I think there is. The kids are isolated from everything but the school's philosophy. But the philosophy - having integrity, being a trustworthy friend, working hard, being true to yourself - is worth giving up the freedom to be an alienated teenager who is going down the tubes.
The answer is, yes there are good schools out there. But just like I wouldn't send my kids to a preschool I hadn't visited, I went to visit schools in person, talked to staff and kids, and talked to people I trust.
Definitely do not be swayed by slick websites, and my advice is avoid both the big corporate-owned schools and the mom and pop "We'll love him into health with the help of God" groups.
Like everything else in this world, you have to be savvy and ask the right questions and have a really good idea of what you're looking for.
Good luck.
Parents don't really know what goes on there. How is your son today?
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Here is an interesting project that is shedding light on the issues w/ reformatory schools through film. Check it out and please pass on the link if it's something that you guys connected with.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/138 ... radise-bay (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1384405025/incidents-at-paradise-bay)
cheers!
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Report your experience in CAFETY's Survey of Experiences in Residential Treatment:
https://www.facebook.com/CAFETY#!/CAFET ... 9503932081 (https://www.facebook.com/CAFETY#!/CAFETY/app_127709503932081)
POSSIBLE RISKS: For those who have had traumatic experiences while in residential placement, this survey may cause some distress as you recount your experiences. You are not alone. Please contact CAFETY to talk to a peer support volunteer at http://www.trauma-pages.com/s/t-facts.php (http://www.trauma-pages.com/s/t-facts.php)
Recovery from a Traumatic Event:
http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/recovering-disasters.aspx (http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/recovering-disasters.aspx)
General
http://www.trauma-pages.com/trauma.php (http://www.trauma-pages.com/trauma.php)
_______________________________
The stuff's still going on. It's got to stop!
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<.>
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Article 1 of the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment defines torture as:
Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
Pretty similar..
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Another runaway from Carlbrook School in Southern Virginia.
http://charleyross.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/doing-runaways-now/
Parents... WAKE UP... please don't send your kids to so-called therapeutic boarding schools!
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Article 1 of the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment defines torture as:
Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
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Open letter to Tim from Stan, Tau peer class, December 09.
May of 09
It was Animus
Then Teneo, we’re digging deeper now.
F**k your disclosure circles and your “therapeutic” pressure,
F**k me being forced out from the closet as gay to my parents, like blackmail
In my first family group
F**k adults telling kids that their suicide attempts “weren’t real”
F**k the culture of discreetly sexualizing people’s children
F**k TB and AC
F**k the pain I see on the faces of people I care about
In unearthed pictures.
F**k you laying me to rest at my own “funeral”
And having me write my own obituary.
U really think that helps suicidal kids? Eat a d**k.
F**k your standards, I’m setting my own
Don’t tell me to sit still or stop smoking pot
I got diagnosed with PTSD 2 years after I graduated
Due to your school and childhood trauma.
Eat me.
You really dropped the ball with me.
Like Nicky Santoro said in “Casino”
“I think I want my money back.”
F**k your criminal ignorance, literal and metaphorical.
F**k you denying my depression, how serious :D my teenage life was,
I rolled with a deep crew, you stole that.
And you telling me to “stop isolating”
And “stop being emo.”
I have a good moral compass on my shoulders
And I’m doing just fine without going back to visit,
Thank you very much.
You never had me contained.
I always had my eyes to the outside
Outside of your aquarium, your zoo, your institution.
F**k you
For making all of my romantic pursuits with graduates
Feel like Brokeback Mountain.
We spend a few hours or days herding cattle up on the hill
And then the day ends
And we have to go back to each our own lives after,
Pretending that we’re normal, we’re waterproof,
And that we’re not basket cases
Because your school forbade love and touch.
You forbade youth at your school.
Not cool.
F**k you for treating me like a pervert
A creep, a 5150 (crazy/involuntary hold psych ward)
A Unibomber.
Comparing me to the Columbine kids
In Integritas.
F**k you for alienating me, a human being.
F**k you for not acknowledging my homosexual inclinations kindly,
You didn’t have to call me a f****t
To make me feel like one and crawl in my skin
For your f**king team groups, your selfish examples
F**k you for “tarring and feathering” people
In the metaphorical town square.
Here’s a fun fact:
I’m a gay man.
And I got a ** in the lower commons bathroom
During a last light, sucka. 12/15/09 bitch
Denise’s birthday. How apt.
F**k you for making BT my advisor
In the last 3 months of my stay
He’s a d**k and didn’t want me to graduate on time
What, you thought he’d make me into a Mormon
While I’m counting the days to leave your prison?
Like that’ll work…
I’m too stubborn to let you brainwash me.
F**k you for my PTSD
F**k you for me getting sent away 2x
And always feeling homeless in spirit
Like all my friends are always about to leave tomorrow
For the foreseeable future.
F**k you for the dreams I lost.
F**k you for the nights I cried
F**k you for the days a piece of my soul died.
F**k you for leaving me in this apartment I live in now
With nothing but my guinea pigs
And my stuffed lion, Linus.
Yes, you got me addicted to drugs
To cloud my memory
And help me forget.
Mostly me but all you.
F**k your past failed schools.
You can’t keep them a secret anymore.
We all know, cause we’ve got the internet now.
CEDU anyone?
F**k you always making it “my problem.”
No, it’s ours, b***h
Unless you wanted me to walk on my 18th, sucker.
And f*ck those beads you got “me” from Greece, Tim.
I cut them the other day
They’re creepy and a bad omen
And they got tangled around my necklace,
My lion chain that keeps me strong instead of my graduation ring.
But I’m free now
Free as a bird
The chains have been lifted
No thanks to you s**theads.
I had to learn from the streets
Not from your banned books.
And ironed shirts and asking to spit.
Don’t try to pretend
That Carlbrook is not as convoluted
As Israel, the Vatican, or the CIA.
CBK is the Marines
They break you
And the rebuild u in THEIR image
Which generally conflicts with a student’s conscience
If they don’t decide to sell out completely.
F**k your D-Com.
F**k your board room in the dining hall,
Where all the REAL talk happened.
No disrespect to my real peeps
U know who u are
Family is blood, *nitches get stitches, real talk.
I had to f**k and s**k and shoot and smoke
Just to find what I have now.
Come the f**k at me, it’s group time
I’ve requested you.
Send me another copy of “love is letting go of fear.”
I left that on the Mod 5 Bookshelf for a reason.
So the pre-Integs would know that workshop tool
And have an ace up their sleeve.
I did it on purpose.
Send me to suspension.
Tell me more about “my actions having an effect on people.”
Money is the root of all evil.
Abuse of power is fascism.
The truth shall set you free.
End rant.
???
>:(
:-X
:-*
edit: vivid language
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for those who want the scene I'm referencing (sorry if Utube links aren't allowed) :'(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwqeSV8Wc4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwqeSV8Wc4)
Edit: just trying to deal with my PTSD and stay sober, just for today.
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You know, you can say "fuck". This website is not a program.
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I can totally feel your pain, and it will get easier over time. When I think about how strongly the emotions we were made to feel that eventually had us unlearn what would have been the "norm" before the program, and then paint that as us "being saved", it pops my top. I've spent years remembering, reflecting, and writing about CEDU/RMA and its methodology. Your feelings are justified.
And the spinoff schools, ones that were started and run by CEDU/RMA/REDACTED
REDACTED >:(
Group encounters shame kids if they are not sitting in them by choice. That's part of the method (just to spout a few): long length of the (rituals inside) programs, constant threat of worse places, (this idea of "choice" is very useful strategy in causing chaos inside the individual desiring autonomy) the use of all aspects of human sexuality as weapon of profound psychological impact for that age in social and mental development, punishments for free thought and usually limited speech "rights", and the interpersonal boundaries that defy ordinary therapeutic ones between staff and student, surely still exist. Feel free, anybody to prove me wrong. This "stuff" is necessary for the program staff to create a surrogate parent role, in order for the student to then feel justified in "sharing" the (normal) anger and shames that may be existent. Feelings of failure in scholastic achievement and/or deteriorating parental relationships are common for all (most or many) kids.
Don't forget that because the kid is there, this is "proof" of his need of saving by the institution! He or She may say this for the rest of their lives without ever using critical thinking to explore if this is true, or can be proven as fact.
Hang tough, Hammer, c'rook peeps are just starting to see the tactics and subtleties of social semiotics that shaped their bizarro experience
and profound waste of money.
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Crying. Nearly speechless.
I am so terribly sorry for what you have had to endure.
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Carlbrook School Permanently Closes; Gives Students and Staff Short Notice (http://wset.com/news/local/carlbrook-school-permanently-closes-gives-students-and-staff-short-notice)
by Valerie Bragg, WSET ABC 13, december 11 2015
Halifax County, Va. — A boarding school in Halifax County is closing its doors for good. Carlbrook School is sending all of its students and staff packing right before the Christmas holiday, on just a few days' notice.
Right now, administration is refusing to release any information about the closing to the public. When ABC 13 went there Friday, we were told to leave.
Several employees and students of the school took to Facebook to express their frustrations. According to several posts, parents, students and staff were all told Wednesday that the school will close on Sunday.
The Southern Association of Colleges and Schools told ABC 13 they have been informed the school plans to close, but have received nothing in writing yet. Halifax County Public Schools also confirms it will keep the students' school records until they are able to transfer to another school.
According to Carlbrook's website, it states it's a private, therapeutic boarding school with 80 students and 45 staff members. Multiple employees tell ABC 13 the school had more than 50 employees. Carlbrook reportedly opened in 2002.
Most, if not all, of the students who attended this school are from out of state. Administration will not confirm any information, stating they'll send out a press release this weekend.