Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: sammiegirl on December 27, 2005, 07:32:00 PM
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I want to pull a Sheehan at MEL AND MILLERS houses but Ill need help. I need to pay rent electric gas and for the trip I figure if I budget right I can pull 30 days 15 for mel and 15 for miller, with 1000.
Ill sleep outside their houses never leaving 30 days to sit in VIGIL fo rthe victims of STRAIGHT KHK and all.
If youre in PA Ill sell you my car to fund this trip. So what do you all think?
Id like to leave before FEB.
samantha
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Sammie, I'll join you in the vigil, and will get you high while you're doing this. Just got off the phone w/ Kpickle, he says he'll send ya some green energy to help fund the trip.
rtp2k3
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I think Miller Newton and Mel Sembler should be burned in effigy during this vigil.
I'd like to see either one of them REALLY burning, but I don't advise setting them on fire due to possible legal repercussions.......
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I wanna go!!! ::nod::
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I'll help pay for your trip if you wear a Porn Junky T-shrit during the sheehan.
Also, I'll send RTP some shit to keep you awake for 30 days straight.
But first, what's a sheehan?
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cindy sheehan: noun, a feamle who engaged in various protests to the iraqi war by camping out at strategic places with follow, she was motivated by her son's death as a soldier and used by the media and the democrats for ratings and a polital example.
sheehan: noun, describes an act of protesting which generally involves camping out at strategic places, in this case, outside the homes of the enemy.
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VVVVVVV
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Sammie,
I can send funds, please PM me on details. Also, I would like to visit and hold vigil for a few days at a time, possibly weekends.
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turn on your yahoo IM Ill IM you
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sammiegirl, how much $ would it take to get you in bed with Dr. Fucktard? Just curious.
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[ This Message was edited by: fedelta_a_verita on 2006-01-03 07:44 ]
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JJJJJJJJJJJ
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sammie.
you are truley pathetic.
don't waste your time in Florida.
we dont want you here.
wasn't your 15 minutes of fame on MONTEL enough for your ego?
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fedelta_ver_non, it's not about making an impression on the Semblers. Betty, at least, is so thoroughly clueless she evidently thinks it's a good idea to proclaim her great affection and respect for a confirmed child abuser under oath.
It's about raising a hew and cry among the rest of our neighbors who keep handing these serial criminals money and power. It's about keeping future generations safe from these mindfuckers.
Go Sammie! Wish I could join ya! Shit, maybe I will. Maybe I'll rope one of these kids into taking on my chores for a week and just take the fuck off.
Jails and prisons are the complement of schools; so many less as you have of the latter, so many more you must have of the former
--Horace Mann
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[ This Message was edited by: fedelta_a_verita on 2006-01-03 07:45 ]
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There are still children being subjected to the same abuses now that we were subjected to then. Now whether Sammie is a wallowing pity monster or not makes little difference at all as long as she is doing something about the aforementioned.
With all of your long drawn out condescension, you are missing the point. Commitment to telling the truth about what happened is a step towards making sure it doesnt happen again. Its perfectly possible to "move on" personally while revisiting the past in order to benefit the present. [ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2005-12-28 10:08 ]
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On 2005-12-28 09:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
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sammie.
you are truley pathetic.
don't waste your time in Florida.
we dont want you here.
wasn't your 15 minutes of fame on MONTEL enough for your ego?"
Nah It only started a ball rolling faster. I didnt want fame I wanted to get married have a family and live the AMERICAN DREAM.
STRAIGHT SCREWED ME ON THAT ONE. So I choose a different path.
Hey DENOUNCE STRAIGHT PAY RESTITUTION AND ILL GO AWAY.
Otherwise SEE YOU IN FLORIDA
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fedelta_ver_non, you're simply out of touch with reality. These shameless welfare mamas are on the public dole right now TODAY. So far this year, they've managed to squander some $50,444,556,308 on their delusions.
http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm (http://www.drugsense.org/wodclock.htm)To go to Journal of Applied Polymer Science go to http://www3.interscience.wiley.com (http://www3.interscience.wiley.com) and then journal search and put the journal number and year
-- Journal of Applied Polymer Science Vol. 47, 1984
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On 2005-12-28 09:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
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sammie.
you are truley pathetic.
don't waste your time in Florida.
we dont want you here.
wasn't your 15 minutes of fame on MONTEL enough for your ego?"
No I appreciate your opinion. Its what this board is for. You just didnt change my mind. You opinion is as solid as mine just different. I didnt insult you I didnt negate you I just responded to your post. You disagree. Ok Thank you for your input. It still doesnt make me change my mind. Want me to stop.
THEN DENOUNCE STRAIGHT AND STRAIGHT LIKE PROGRAMS. PAY RESTITUTION. CLOSE DFAF.
TAKE RESPONSABILITY [sp] FOR THE DAMAGE STRAIGHT CAUSED.
Id be happy to go away FAR AWAY maybe even to FRANCE. Id never speak of STRAIGHT et al AGAIN. I am not asking for an unrealistic action. I am just asking unrealistic people.
Who is truly pathetic? One who speaks out for CHILDREN RIGHTS or on who supports CHILD ABUSERS. Your opinion was read and not applied. I have no idea who you realy are and dont realy want to know I have an INKLING THOUGH. Why should I value what you say.
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On 2005-12-28 09:42:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:
"Whom is ?we? you, and those like you? That?s revealing. As if everyone whom was ever forced to endure the program must be hate-filled zombies, spewing the same tired rhetoric, refusing to move forward in their lives. Here in the real world, where most of us straight-survivors live, it doesn?t work like that, most of us have made the decision to live our lives for ourselves and not be dictated to by the past. As I said before you may continue to hate if that is your desire, this is still a semi-free nation and that is your right. I merely attempted to give you some guidance ? which you asked for ? to aid you in moving on with your life. If you do not choose to put the past where it belongs, if you choose to continue to wallow in your self-pity, then so be it and best of luck to you if your future.
If you only want opinions that make you feel good state that next time and I?ll be sure to pass your post right on by.
"
You dont get it "I DONT HATE" And the ZOMBIES you speak of are not here w/me they are in the existing STRAIGHT LIKE PROGRAMS being DRUGGED and ABUSED. Are they HATEFUL I dont know I am not allowed to ask them neither is anyone else. You see they have these RULES that prohibit children from speaking to some one other than a PROGRAMMED staff member. So AGAIN I SAY>
STOP THE TORTURE STOP THE ABUSE STOP PROFITING FROM CHILDREN IN CRISIS! DENOUNCE STRAIGHT AND STRAIGHT LIKE PROGRAMS CLOSE DFAF AND PAY RESTITUTION. ID BE HAPPY TO GO AWAY.
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[ This Message was edited by: fedelta_a_verita on 2006-01-03 07:47 ]
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Nah, no condescending tone there. Nope, nosireeBob. :roll:
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[ This Message was edited by: sammiegirl on 2005-12-28 11:37 ]
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*At the time I posted a response to this person I was not aware of the state of her mental condition, now whether that should have been obvious to me or not is also debatable, and moot. I took it as a sincere request for help and felt it my duty to offer this poor pitiful person some aid and guidance in pulling herself out of her destructive, compulsive behavior patterns, obviously I was mistaken in that assumption ? that is not open to debate.*
Compulsive no. I am planning a trip for two month from now.
I dont need your psycho guidance dont believe in your Psychological BS SORRY. I am mentaly healthy, spiritualy happy. Physcialy I have been harmed by STRAIGHT. Harm that NO MONEY IN THE WORLD WILL HEAL. And YES it is open to DEBATE. When you post it is open on an OPEN FORUM otherwise keep it to yourself.
*As far as ?telling the truth? goes, of course there cannot be placed to high of a value upon doing so, however at what cost? What price is acceptable? Is it acceptable to sell your car to finance a trip here to sit in front of the Semblers home, as a form of protest? Do you think it is? Or do you think it is a bit obsessive compulsive? ?telling the truth? must be tempered by a modicum of common sense, not reckless abandon, and certainly not when that ?truth? is a universally known one.*
I am selling my car regardless. Dont need it dont want it.
So you are saying ANY PERSON who chooses to sit in "vigil" is obsessive destructive and compulsive? Realy? What about all those people who sat in vigil for TERRI SCHIAVO? what about the people who sat in "VIGIL" for Martin Luther King? What about those who sit in vigil against the WAR and The Patriot act. According to you they all need "Help" Hmm.
And if this TRUTH OF STRAIGHT were UNIVERSALY KNOWN... Wouldnt it have stopped and wouldnt MEL MILLER et al be held accountable?
*I am living proof of that as are countless other former straight inmates whom are also leading normal, productive lives*
According to your SCALE
*however the person who is the subject of this post has clearly not ?moved on?, hence my thoughtful, logical response,*
Thoughtful or full of it?
*therefore the supposition is irrelevant for these purposes,*
Oh give me a break your psycho babble and long words are SOOOO lost on this person who according to you has SOOO many Psychological problems HMMM Could it be the affects of STRAIGHT???
FEAR DRIVES YOU. I didnt ask for your evaluation but you freely give it. Why do you continue to respond it seems that you might apply the obsessive BANTER to yourself.
PS why not defend Miller also you seemed worried about the SEMBLERS why so worried why bother with this at all.
You dont agree hey I accept that. Im still going.
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He seems to think he's been appointed to "help" all of us poor souls with his "aid and guidance". No one asked you. Sammie posted about a trip she's planning and asked if anyone else would like to go. You jumped on it as an opportunity to insert your smug and condescending comments in there just like you seem to have with all of your posts http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term= ... mit=Search (http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term=&addterms=any&forum=all&search_username=fedelta_a_verita&sortby=p.post_time&searchboth=both&submit=Search)
We didn't ask for your help, don't want it, don't need it.
I do have to respectfully disagree with you Sammie on the Schiavo mess. Those idiots DID need help.....help off the property and back to taking care of their OWN lives, not trying to run someone else's. Thank god Bush & Co. didn't get their way with that and she was allowed to die the peaceful death she should have years ago.
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John E. Killett
[email protected]
You seem to repeat yourself since 11/28 same old banter and some old BS
And if you "GOT over it" and "MOVED ON" Then why are you looking for straight Inc on the Net and why are you here on Fornits.
Oh wait you must be that SAVIOR "THEY" talk about. Are you Jesus?
LOLOLO ROFLMAO[ This Message was edited by: sammiegirl on 2005-12-28 11:52 ]
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Poor fedelta_ver_non. I think she misses group. Here ya' go, darlin. Maybe these people can help you move on to a better place for this sort of bullshit
https://www.talbottcampus.com/indexnew.htm (https://www.talbottcampus.com/indexnew.htm)We can easily forgive a child who is afraid
of the dark. The real tragedy of life is
when men are afraid of the light.
--Plato
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On 2005-12-28 11:05:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:
"Carmel, I do not believe I am not missing the point, I see the point crystal clear, nor was I being in any way condescending, but I will leave that open for others to debate as it is meaningless to me. At the time I posted a response to this person I was not aware of the state of her mental condition, now whether that should have been obvious to me or not is also debatable, and moot. I took it as a sincere request for help and felt it my duty to offer this poor pitiful person some aid and guidance in pulling herself out of her destructive, compulsive behavior patterns, obviously I was mistaken in that assumption ? that is not open to debate.
As far as ?telling the truth? goes, of course there cannot be placed to high of a value upon doing so, however at what cost? What price is acceptable? Is it acceptable to sell your car to finance a trip here to sit in front of the Semblers home, as a form of protest? Do you think it is? Or do you think it is a bit obsessive compulsive? ?telling the truth? must be tempered by a modicum of common sense, not reckless abandon, and certainly not when that ?truth? is a universally known one.
I do agree with your supposition that it is ?perfectly possible to "move on" personally while revisiting the past? I am living proof of that as are countless other former straight inmates whom are also leading normal, productive lives however the person who is the subject of this post has clearly not ?moved on?, hence my thoughtful, logical response, therefore the supposition is irrelevant for these purposes,.
Thank you for your attempt at maintaining civility, obviously not all those here are in possession of such class but that is par for this course.
Happy New Year
"
I dont think that it is compulsive nor do I agree that she is exhibiting reckless abandon. However this situation has long since past being resolved whilst standing in line, holding your paper number and waiting to be called on.
Its an unfortunate truth that the very criminals themselves happen to have taken up residence INSIDE the box of public rationality and logic. Therefore, we must sometimes work outside these perceived norms in order to affect change.
I dont think Sammie's personal state of mind is an issue. If it takes a little anger and bitterness to push the envelope, then so be it. I would like to know what it is you may have accomplished with your calm, thoughtful, rational attitude? What inroads have you created that are making a difference for the kids still being taken advantage of today? You speak of living for yourself and being resolved emotionally, which is honorable and certainly favorable.....but this just isnt ABOUT us anymore.
[ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2005-12-28 11:57 ]
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On 2005-12-28 11:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
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Wonder what "area of expertise" he's referring to?
URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=0#157745 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13115&forum=7&start=0#157745)
I know, that is actually my area of expertise so to speak, and I will be willing to provide you the steps if you should ever decide to become known rather than anonymous.
Let me know, I?d be happy to help.
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Where is the Sembler mansion, Sammie? I used to live in Treasure Island, on the Isle of Capri, where my mother still has a house.
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Its not a Mansion and since I dont want my address posted Ill have to conceed the request but I will say that you can find the address in public records and that it isnt hard to find....
After you pay the Toll and pass the GATES OF HELL on Tierra Verdi go approx 1 1/2 miles make a left and follow past the big apt condo on your left look for a park accross from the yaght club then look to its left you'll see a hirred security officer in front of a house.
THATS IT! The SEMBLER HOUSE
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http://pao.co.pinellas.fl.us/search2.html (http://pao.co.pinellas.fl.us/search2.html)
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On 2005-12-28 12:10:00, sammiegirl wrote:
After you pay the Toll and pass the GATES OF HELL on Tierra Verdi
Treasure Island. The gates of hell would be the gates around Mel's house, not necessarily T.I. I know quite a few great people who live there and despise the fact that they've got a complete fucking moronic asshole for a neighbor.
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Ok sorry thank you for the correction. I apologise to the people of T V My bad
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Thanks, Sammie. I wasn't looking for an exact address. I think I know where you're talking about, though. I find it ironic that I once shared an island with a man directly (and not inadvertently) responsible for the abuse that I endured in adolescence. Had I known of him then, he might not be walking the planet now.
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Plug his name into the Pinellas Co. site listed above. You'll get his address, then copy it to Mapquest. You'll see exactly where he lives.
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[ This Message was edited by: fedelta_a_verita on 2006-01-03 07:47 ]
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Ah, surveillance technology. And only a breezy little stroll from where I used to live, STRAIGHT as the pelican flies.
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On 2005-12-28 12:42:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:
"Carmel, I see your point, however that point was not the object of the original post which was a response to an invitation for my thoughts on a specific subject matter and since your point is vastly more interesting than the previous, psychotic rantings I will stick to that.
Again, no condescention there. Nope, none at all.
Most of us ? speaking of those whom were incarcerated within the program, wherever that may have been located ? were angry and bitter before we ever stepped foot inside the building.
I think you'd better stick to speaking for yourself. Why would you assume to speak for 'most' of 'us'. Please don't.
I won?t say that was the case of every single person, anymore than we could state unequivocally that every person there had a ?drug problem?.
Well good b/c as it turns out it appears that most of us did NOT have a drug problem and were dropped off to be 'fixed' by the Great and Powerful Oz.
Many of us, obviously, retain our anger and bitterness, and to what end? Where has that anger gotten us?
As has been stated before this isn't just about us anymore. It's still going on today. Mel is still bragging about his "12,000 successful graduates" AND seems to have a great deal of influence over public policy. Funny how he leaves out the part about all of the Straights being shut down for various forms of abuse and/or fraud or to avoid abuse charges. http://www.sembler.com/MelSembler.php (http://www.sembler.com/MelSembler.php) Although best known as a leading shopping center developer, Sembler is also renowned for his activism in the anti-drug movement. In 1976, Sembler and his wife Betty founded STRAIGHT, an adolescent drug treatment program. During its 17 years of existence, STRAIGHT successfully graduated more than 12,000 young people nationwide from its remarkable program. He is nationally recognized as an activist in the anti-drug campaign and as a staunch, long-time supporter of the Republican Party and its candidates.
So, as to a having a rational attitude I will only say that nothing worthy is ever accomplished through thoughtlessness, or rashness, nor are obsessive anger and bitterness the attributes of a healthy personality.
This doesn't seem thoughtless or rash. Looks like an informed person trying to make a difference in a world that just doesn't want to hear anything negative of their beloved leaders.
I would like to know whom you hold responsible for your incarceration? I speak of the Semblers because as one of the original inmates I knew him and I knew Helen what?s her face as well, never heard of Miller till I came here, though he was after my time. But ultimately I hold my mother responsible first and foremost, after that I will have to take some of the blame, not all of it as there was some extremely poor parenting being practiced upon me at that time and for a decade prior my parent(s) were non-existent. Not only were they ?not there for me? they were not there at all. It was their job to assure that I turned out a solid productive citizen instead of the out of control monster they were unleashing upon society, and they failed. I hold no ill will toward any of the Semblers, ultimately our parents signed each one of us in there, not the Semblers, and it is the parents whom are responsible, or the ?criminals? as you say. I do not hate my mother, or father, for their lack of parenting or betrayal, it would be wasted emotion, but we will never have the kind of relationship normal people enjoy.
I blame my parents for the same reasons as you. I also blame the Semblers, Newton, Petermann and the rest of the sick fucks that perpetrated these crimes upon us. Yes, crimes. I also blame the Semblers for refusing to acknowledge their responsibility in the abuse of countless children.
Inroads that I have made? More than I think I realize probably, but not the kind you are seeking, I will never be seen marching or holding a ?vigil?. I am directly responsible for a single male child, who is being raised with the kind of love, respect and attention I certainly never enjoyed and if I am allowed to live until his adulthood can guarantee that he will not wind up anywhere but in college. I also belong to the PTA, SAC and coach every youth sport seemingly known to man for the last four years and have always adhered to my principles and have personally impacted more than two hundred youth in that time, although to what degree only time and God will tell.
Great. You're doing your part for humantiy and so are we. I don't see what you have such a problem with.
As for this not being about us anymore I would agree with that and that is why I take the responsibility to volunteer to my community in whatever way I can, not necessarily with an eye towards keeping kids out of straight but if that is a by-product of my work then so be it. Again, ultimately it is the parents duty to parent, not the peers, not the TV, not the schools ? the mother and father must do their jobs, if they fail it is their blame.
We see part of our responsibility as informing parents of the abuses that conintue to take place at these programs. Again, I fail to see what you can find wrong with that.
<
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I am glad that you are satisfied with where you stand on the issue. However, as I keep mentioning repeatedly: This abuse is still going on, not to us, but to other children. I take issue with that, and I take issue with the idea that the perpetrators involved in that past are still involved in this present meteing out of abuse.
Who I hold responsible for my time in the program is irrelevent. What IS relevent is that my experience there is testament to what is still an unacceptable form of "treatment". STILL unacceptable. I have a family and a son and a life as well, I contribute to good citizenry like the rest.....but THIS is something I know about, being abused in treatment, THIS is something I have the opportunity to make a difference in and coaching little leauge just ISNT going to cut it when it comes to THIS.
I know this isnt the "original posting point", But it is the general idea behind the protest of Sembler and the like, no matter where your coming from.
[ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2005-12-28 13:36 ]
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Personally, I'd rather focus on abusive treatment facilities that are still in operation. These are the places that need survivors at their property boundaries--much more than Mel or Virgil. Not that they shouldn't pay for their crimes, but currently too many kids are suffering the same hell that all of us know intimately.
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On 2005-12-28 13:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Personally, I'd rather focus on abusive treatment facilities that are still in operation. These are the places that need survivors at their property boundaries--much more than Mel or Virgil. Not that they shouldn't pay for their crimes, but currently too many kids are suffering the same hell that all of us know intimately. "
In order to stop cancer from killing you you first need to remove the tumor.
In order to stop the spread of abuse you must first STOP THE ORIGIN. IMO SEED/STRAIGHT started this think there fore we must stop it, through all means legal.
PS MEL IS NOW SAYING HE DIDNT KNOW WHAT WAS GOING ON.
Should he just be left alone. NO NO NO NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO FUCKING WAY MEL AND MILLER SHOULD ROT IN HELL AND BE MISERABLE TIL THEY ADMIT THEIR WRONGS
APPLY THE RULES THEMSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I SAY WE ALL GO DOWN THERE AND IF PEOPLE ASK WHY THEN TELL THEM THIS CANCEROUS ABUSE STARTED HERE AND SHOULD END HERE.
TELL THE TRUTH MEL!!!!
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See you in florida.
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And what good will it do the kids that are rotting on blue chairs RIGHT NOW? Besides, there's always someone waiting to step into the shoes of a dethroned kingpin of torture. Going back a few years, your logic would have served drug policy institutes with the belief that they could eliminate America's cocaine problem by taking out Pablo Escobar.
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On 2005-12-28 12:42:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:Most of us ? speaking of those whom were incarcerated within the program, wherever that may have been located ? were angry and bitter before we ever stepped foot inside the building.
Bullshit. Most of us were just fine. Our parents were a bit crazy. Any sane, normal person would respond with anger and indignation at the very tone and content of a typical intake 'interview', never mind the strip search.
I won?t say that was the case of every single person, anymore than we could state unequivocally that every person there had a ?drug problem?.
Baby steps...
I fell into the former category and never cared for the harder drugs of my contemporaries ? pot and alcohol were my choices. Many of us, obviously, retain our anger and bitterness, and to what end? Where has that anger gotten us?
Well, so far, we've collectively been able to take away the Straight, Inc. name (thanks very much to that crazy bastard, Richard Bradbury w/ much support and assistance from that even crazier tweed coat, Arnold Trebach) And the remaining programs operating under various aliases around the country labour under constant bad PR and frequent licensing and criminal investigations. Have you seen the latest on KHK? How'd that happen? They'll be shut down eventually.
So, as to a having a rational attitude I will only say that nothing worthy is ever accomplished through thoughtlessness, or rashness, nor are obsessive anger and bitterness the attributes of a healthy personality.
True enough. However, sustained protest, healthy dialog by way of every available media seem to do the trick.
I speak of the Semblers because as one of the original inmates I knew him
Did the Semblers take home newcomers? Was their house secured? (locked or bolted windows, etc.) If you actually wittnessed Melvin and Betty taking part in false imprisonment, you could (if you had the sack for it) publicly dispel the myth that they were just upper management and had no idea what was going on right under their noses for all those years.
But you won't cause you're either a coward or tragically brainwashed.
It was their job to assure that I turned out a solid productive citizen instead of the out of control monster they were unleashing upon society, and they failed. I hold no ill will toward any of the Semblers, ultimately our parents signed each one of us in there, not the Semblers, and it is the parents whom are responsible, or the ?criminals? as you say.
Yeah, thought so. Tragically brainwashed.
I am directly responsible for a single male child, who is being raised with the kind of love, respect and attention I certainly never enjoyed and if I am allowed to live until his adulthood can guarantee that he will not wind up anywhere but in college. I also belong to the PTA, SAC and coach every youth sport seemingly known to man for the last four years and have always adhered to my principles and have personally impacted more than two hundred youth in that time, although to what degree only time and God will tell.
Frightening. How many futures have you destroyed by enforcing warrantless piss testing policies and by spreading bogus DARE propaganda asif it were the Gospel? Countless, I'm sure.
As for this not being about us anymore I would agree with that and that is why I take the responsibility to volunteer to my community in whatever way I can, not necessarily with an eye towards keeping kids out of straight but if that is a by-product of my work then so be it. Again, ultimately it is the parents duty to parent, not the peers, not the TV, not the schools ? the mother and father must do their jobs, if they fail it is their blame.
Nice talking to you
"
In what was once the freest country in all of human history, it's also our job as citizens to oversee and direct our governement. The Semblers and their associates via DFAF, DPNA, DATIA and a long, long list of other alter egos are pilfering public funding to carry out their progrom on our kids. If that doesn't piss you off, check yourself for a pulse.
This year will go down in history! For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration! Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!
Adolph Hitler
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Enough with the caps already, please.
Other than that, best of luck to you in Florida. :wave: ...and in all indictments for libels the jury shall have the right to determine the law and the facts, under the direction of the court, as in other cases.
(Jury nullification. It's not just a good idea, it's the law!)
Declaration of Rights, PA Constitution
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Wow all the support I might be ready to go sooner than later. See you in Florida
The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy.".
--George Washington, Revolutionary War General and U.S. President
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[ This Message was edited by: fedelta_a_verita on 2006-01-03 07:48 ]
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Once again, it's all about you. You and your lawsuits, you and your photos, you and your vigil. Why don't you travel to the new Straight in Milford, OH instead? It's the same program with a different name, and the abuse allegations are tumbling out of there like clockwork.
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fedelta, A personality is not completely finished forming until around the age of 16 years old. The environment that the child is surounded with is what helps the child to attain the personality that they will carry for the rest of that persons life. I can not believe that all Straight kids had psyco problems before Straight. most all kids go through different stages of lieing, cheating, stealing, drugs and if a child does not go through things like this, I would then be worried about that child.
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lol
Oh let Sammie come on down to the sunshine state and sit her ass outside for hours, days weeks. I may even drive by and take a picture. Don't the Semblers spend a lot of time traveling and out of the country?! Funny if she sits in front of an empty (secured) house.
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On 2005-12-28 15:16:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:
This abuse is still going on. Agreed. Now what? What are you going to do about it? What can you do about it? Execute the Semblers, murder the Newton whoevers and beat the hell out of Helen whosits? Lobby to enact legislation to forbid any and all straight like programs from ever existing? To what end? What happens when you accomplish all of this? Straight did not exist because of the Semblers, Bush or anyone else, it existed and thrived because parents put their children in there,
That's why, if you'll bother to take the time to actually look around these fora, we ARE trying to educate parents NOT to shuffle the responsibility for their problems off to strangers.
What will prevent these parents from allowing their children to develop into the kinds of uncontrollable, uncommunicative and rebellious people they became and which led their parents to place them in an environment outside of their homes to begin with?
Here, you should understand this since it smacks of your "area of expertise". You're assuming facts not in evidence. :roll: It appears that the vast majority of these kids were fairly normal, albeit rebellious (and when did rebellious become the big bad boogeyman to parents? Ever taken a look at the list of druggie "symptoms" these places list? Shit, you could apply all of them to almost all teens. Here's a clue......rebellion is a normal part of growing up[/b]) kids who, if left to their own devices would have more than likely turned out OK.
I don?t really care about the Semblers of the world ?
That's a damn shame cause they're influencing your life more than you're aware of. http://www.dfaf.org/ (http://www.dfaf.org/)
Rage at the Semblers will not assuage those who suffered from straight,
Actually, it does to a certain degree. We were never allowed to speak anything negative about the people who were directly responsible for the abuse. Feels DAMN good to be able to do it now.
and what will these poor creatures do when the Semblers, and the rest, pass? Whom will they blame for the failures in their lives then?
Again, assuming facts not in evidence. You've read what, maybe a few posts here and you assume that everyone is blaming them for whatever failures in life they have. Untrue and if you spend some time actually reading here before going off on a tirade and trying to phsyco-analyze us all you'd see that.
How many of these children were perfectly normal, conforming, loving, non-rebellious, non-drug using, proper young boys and girls when they went into the program? Were any of them? Or did they all have some serious issues?
That whole 'facts in evidence' thing applies here too. How the hell would you presume to know what was going on with ANYone before they were incarcerated in that hellhole? Again, most of us were fairly normal teens whose parents were freaked by the 'drug war' mentality and scared shitless of things they shouldn't have been only to have such reputable people play right the fuck into those fears.
Look around these boards, you don?t need to go any further than this thread, to see there are some folks with some very serious mental psychosis.
Glad you're able to give such a detailed diagnosis from a few posts Dr. Frist.
Everything from gross fantasization to deluded paranoia to serious anger management problems. This didn?t happen because of straight, straight is long over with, those issues were simmering there before and have merely found a focal point in their expression in blaming everything that went awry in their already pitiful lives on straight.
How the hell would you know?
It is weakness of mind and character to be controlled by a past, particularly a past in which most of us had little to no control.
Jeeeez, do we really have to go over this again?? Most of us have moved passed the anger at what was done to us (not all, but most) NOW we'er angry that they still have influence over our lives through policy (see DFAF f/k/a Straight Inc. http://www.dfaf.org/ (http://www.dfaf.org/) )
Do you recognize that these problems in parenting are not going to go away and are merely trying to make parents aware that straight, etc. is not the way to go, or do you deny the fact that there are problems with the parent child relationship which exist?
Yes, there are problems between parents and kids. Always have been always will be but there was a time when parents didn't ship them off to a warehouse to be 'fixed'. That didn't spring up til the Great Drug War came along and Sembler/Straight/Newton etc have been and continue to be a huge part of the problem.
No one, not here or anywhere else you will find, can relate more about being abused than I
Gawwwwd but you're a sanctimonious asshole.
and yet I have heard no valid solutions here. I hear plenty of angst, anger, rage, hatred, loads of self-pity, unadulterated psychotic rantings
Yeah well, guess ya hear what ya want to hear.
but no one pin pointing the exact causes of what made straight an alternative many parents turned to or how THAT can be changed.
Really? Then you haven't been reading much on here.
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On 2005-12-28 15:16:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:
What drove them to think they had no other alternative but to have their offspring committed?
A combination of things. For one, taboos held over from our Puritanical roots. They used to burn women at the stake for ingesting mildewed rye, ya know. So we are making some progress over the long term, I think.
But those old vestiges of the mighty potent Catholic guilt run soo deep. It's a natural for American propaganda going back to around the 40's. And it's been very effective and ever useful. So this same class of people (according to Twain, the only distinct criminal class in America in his day) keep harping on the same fears, ever escalating the perception of threat and the costs (tangible and intangible) to defend us all against this growing hobgoblin they've created.
So by 1970, the Summer of Manson, when the Seed opened up for business, the whole media and every PTA was screetching bloody murder about the youth drug culture. Some called it a communist plot. So that changed the message straight to "And look now! The hobgobblin is after your children!!!"
Least ways, that's what my dad told me.
As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher
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On 2005-12-28 15:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Once again, it's all about you. You and your lawsuits, you and your photos, you and your vigil. Why don't you travel to the new Straight in Milford, OH instead? It's the same program with a different name, and the abuse allegations are tumbling out of there like clockwork. "
Leave the chick alone why don't you. It's too damn cold up here to camp in front of anywhere.
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On 2005-12-28 15:16:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:
This abuse is still going on. Agreed. Now what? What are you going to do about it? What can you do about it? Execute the Semblers, murder the Newton whoevers and beat the hell out of Helen whosits? Lobby to enact legislation to forbid any and all straight like programs from ever existing? To what end? What happens when you accomplish all of this? Straight did not exist because of the Semblers, Bush or anyone else, it existed and thrived because parents put their children in there, McDonalds doesn?t serve their burgers if no one eats them. Why did they do this?
Actually responsibility is the entire point here and the most relevant things we?ve been talking about. I don?t really care about the Semblers of the world ? they?re typical parasites feeding off of the misery of others, they were here yesterday, they?re here now and they?ll be here tomorrow they will never go away. What I care about are the realities of the causes that allowed straight to exist and by extension the Semblers to thrive. Rage at the Semblers will not assuage those who suffered from straight, and what will these poor creatures do when the Semblers, and the rest, pass? Whom will they blame for the failures in their lives then?"
Out of curiosity, what would you say to rape victims who want to see the perpetrator pay for his crime with imprisonment? What would you say to the family who lost a loved one due to murder who wants to see the murderer pay for his crimes in prison? My point??? Easy....The point of the justice system is to punish those who break the law and to deter others from committing crime. So, by bringing public attention to the Sembler's/Miller Newton etc. the wheels of justice just might begin to do its job...to punish those who abused children in the name of help (Sembler/Newton) and to deter others who may follow in their footsteps. If the justice system doesnt come through, then media attention might create public humiliation...a different kind of justice altogether. Will this change the fact that other greedy bastards out there might try to capitalize on the child abuse/treatment industry? Probably not...the point is to hold those who are caught accountable for the laws they have violated.
If the world applied your logic, there would be no point in having a justice system would there?...cause we all know people will always commit crimes...so why bother going after murderers and rapists since it will not stop potential criminals and will not wipe them off the face of the earth???? :roll: As for you blaming the parents (the paying customers) as being the reason those places exist...well if someday these abusive hell holes are wiped off the face of the earth, or at the very least, there numbers are greatly reduced, then parents will be forced to do their job...be parents!!!! Hmmm...what a novel concept!
Complacency allows these monsters to remain free to terrorize generation after generation of children. If you chose to be complacent, then fine, but that is your choice...and if someone chooses to go the other route, activism, that is also their choice....Activism is a healthy way to redirect anger...
You go be an activist any way you chose Sammy!
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Fedelta_ver_Non, can't you see what we're doing about it? We're employing the IVth Estate of government to seek redress.
Got a problem wit dat? Oh yeah? Well! Ya mudda wears Army boots! ::bwahaha2:: One does not have to appeal to God to set the initial conditions for the creation of the universe, but if one does He would have to act through the laws of physics.
--Stephen Hawking, English scientist
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[ This Message was edited by: fedelta_a_verita on 2006-01-03 07:50 ]
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On 2005-12-28 16:20:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:
Wait a minute, your equating rape and murder victims, I?m assuming you are speaking of those victims whom have done nothing to in anyway contribute to those events or put themselves in situations where those crimes occur, to what was done to children placed willingly in straight by their parents and you?re assailing MY logic? On top of which you?re going to attempt to lecture ME on our judicial/legislative system? No.
Next."
I certainly did not equate murder and rape victimes to straight victims (however, some kids were raped in straight)...it was an anolagy to make a point....as educated as you must be, I cant believe you didnt see the obvious...let me be more precise...our justice system punishes child abusers right??? Yeah that's what I thought....There are mechanisms in place to employ public humilation for child abusers right...yeah I thought so..
And yes I was speaking of "victims whom have done nothing to in anyway contribute to those events or put themselves in situations where those crimes occur"....children UNWILLINGLY put in straight WERE victims...none of us chose to be abused and did NOTHING to put themselves in a situation...they were just being children! Yes rebellious ones, but since when does being rebellious mean that its okay to abuse those who dare rebel???? Would you dare make the claim that children who ARE abused deserved to be abused cause they might have made a few mistakes along the line somewhere? Parents willingly put children in the program, the children went UNWILLINGLY! And yes I am lecturing you on the judicial system, since in school you prolly slept through the lecture that taught that child abuse is a crime punishable by the legal system in this country.[ This Message was edited by: nonconformistlaw on 2005-12-28 16:36 ]
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On 2005-12-28 16:20:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:
I?m assuming you are speaking of those victims whom have done nothing to in anyway contribute to those events or put themselves in situations where those crimes occur, to what was done to children placed willingly in straight by their parents
Who's will? And then what happened? Me? I was worldly enough to just turn and walk away when I really couldn't stand any more. Only the planning stage and first hours were really stressful or difficult. The rest was cake.
And I knew how to talk the talk w/o letting it seep all the way in. I had been doing it since I was a little kid, after all. So I didn't get beat down mentally or physically anywhere near as much as some kids. I also knew all of the signs of when your parents are thinking about putting you in the Program. I had lived that 5 times already w/ my family in the Seed. So I knew when to run, and that was the smoking gun; it backfired.
Up until then, I didn't dare do anything remotely close to any sane reason to have me locked up. Most of the kids who turned up on front row were just like that; no fucking clue what was going on, just terrified children who had stepped into the Twilight Zone.
Most of them had no idea how to avoid the rough treatment. You probably have little idea what sometimes happened to chronicly labeled misbehavers. As a child, totally sold on the doctrine and dogma, few of us really did any critical thinking about that.
As an adult, now? Come on! Think about it. Put your kid in that position for months at a stretch. Now think about some of the personalities and histories of some of the losers who, like cream and bastards, rose to the top in that institution. Virgil Newton didn't invent, or even radically influence, Straight Inc. It was already there, he was just a bit too entheusiastic an evangelist so they tossed him to the wolves, austensibly.
Some kids were raped in there. Some were starved. Many were beaten, medically neglected, tormented with sleep deprivation for days at a stretch.
I saw a guy stood up and publicly humiliated for having cut up his wrists. I think I was just coming in from school when the confrontation was going on. And there stood Dennis D., one of my many crushes, sobbing pittiously. He'd been on IVth Phase that morning, I think. And here he was, fresh from the hospital, being castigated for being weak, for seeking attention, taking the easy way out... and this big old, friendly, simple hick from Ohio just sobbed.
All of us were forced to focus constantly and intensely on all of that. If you don't pick up the cues, if you're not paying attention with all of your awareness, if you're slow to confront or somehow outa left field, it could all come crashing down... any moment...
I'd rather be raped, frankly, and too many have chosen to murder themselves. It's absolutely a false dilema to frame the argument as an if/or choice. Fact is, the 90% of our contemporaries who Art and Mel both assured us would land up deadinsaneorinjail have not, but a significant preportion of his supposed beneficiaries have.
But Betty Sembler just swore under oath a few weeks ago that he's a dear friend and a wonderful human being. And she and Mel both brag, to this day, about having 'saved 12,000 children'. They're frauds.
Never mind that they buy into their own bullshit more than anybody else does. This is not about intent or primal evil or any such thing. I'm not seeking revenge, only redress.
These people have no solid logical idea about drugs, drug policy or drug rehabilitation. And they're some of the most fucked up parents on the planet. Therefore, they should have no credibility or authority in areas of drug policy or child rearing. In fact, the most frightening picture I've seen in a good many years was one of Helen Peterman clutching a young child. I reminded me of something out of an old Bela Legosi flick. :scared:
I think that if more people understood how fucking ugly this drug war ideology really is just under the surface, they'd quit buying. It's like seeing sausage made.
On the dogmas of religion, as distinguished from moral principles, all mankind, from the beginning of the world to this day, have been quarreling, fighting, burning and torturing one another for abstractions unintelligible to themselves and to all others, and absolutely beyond the comprehension of the human mind.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
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On 2005-12-28 16:20:00, fedelta_a_verita wrote:
On top of which you?re going to attempt to lecture ME on our judicial/legislative system? No.
Next.
"
Oh, because you're the be-all, end-all of jurisprudence? :roll:
Get over yourself!! :lol:
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uuuuuuuuuuuu
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Could one give us a little more geography about their houses and where they are in relation to the Florida coastline and cities?
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On 2005-12-30 05:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Could one give us a little more geography about their houses and where they are in relation to the Florida coastline and cities?"
Do a search on Sembler here: http://pao.co.pinellas.fl.us/search2.html (http://pao.co.pinellas.fl.us/search2.html)
then mapquest it here: http://www.mapquest.com/ (http://www.mapquest.com/)
or GoogleEarth: http://earth.google.com/ (http://earth.google.com/)
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:smile:
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On 2005-12-28 21:03:00, sammiegirl wrote:
" ::bwahaha2:: ::bwahaha:: ::soapbox:: WHEN SPIDERS UNITE, THEY CAN TIE DOWN A LION
-- Ethiopian Proverb
"
Awww fuck all the dumb shit and come to Florida Sammie! Will make sure ya don't go hungry!
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Awww fuck all the dumb shit and come to Florida Sammie! Will make sure ya don't go hungry!
And she'll talk French in your ear.
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Sammie
Be sure to bring tampons and pads, so you won't have to sit for days in your period.
And maybe some Mace, so the men won't rape you.
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I'll also send ya a Porn Junky hoody in case it's cold.
:idea: Porn Junky tampons, we'll market em with flavored strings so it's more enjoyable to pull em out with the teeth. :wink:
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What the hell is wrong with you guys? Lay off, enough is enough. It's one thing to criticize Sammie's tactics, it quite another to do this.
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Sammie is sacrificed on the altar of fornits.
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I do not see anything wrong with Sammies tactics.
Sammie, you have my support in doing this. I'm on a busy sechudle till mid-summer or I'd be right there with ya. If you wear one of my shrits or sweat shrits you'll be repesenting me during my absence and I'll feel special.
For those of you that mistakenly took my tampon commits as feeding into those bashing Sammie, that was not my intent. The whole thing just gave me the idea of flavored tampons. You girls have scented ones, whats so wrong with flavored ones. I'm not the only guy that's had a string caught in his teeth. Or at least I hope not cause I'm already working on a flavored tampon deal along with the birth control stick-on tattoo deal. Much more attractive than a patch wouldn't say. :wink:
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When is she going? Or did she already go?