Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

I myself was never really physically abused. At least not in the traditional use of the term. I was pounced on a few times and could feel the hate coming from peoples eyes often enough. The abuse that was delivered to me was a systematic taking away of liberty and desire.

That being said, 2 former very good friends of mine both Seed kids and graduates of the program, told me about instances of rape that occurred to them whileon the program. This was while I was still involved with the program, early 80's, Both instances happened at foster homes by oldcomers/timers. One of the guys that had this happen to them has never seemed right. I lost track of him some yrs ago, but I hope he found therapy or a way to put it behind him.

I know the instances were brought to staff and the person was told to get over it. In what words I'm not sure. I suspect staff told them it was "not important".

It's just another example of  the debasing treatment we all received in way form or another.

Hey TK.
Check your private messages.

Hi TK, Cleveland
I'm really glad to hear about Julio. I was always close to him and I'm very happy for his success.
Can you fill me in on Joe M? If you can? A very nice guy who I saw being taken advantage of down there

Clev: I don't want you to fill bad about telling me the truth back then. I was glad you cared enough about me to give me your perspective. In fact I left your apartment that night knowing I had to close that chapter. It appears that those of us who were on the outside looking in really didn't have any "real" idea how we were viewed by the "chosen" ones. I just am so lucky that I made it out of there when I did and that I choose to stay away.
Not as if they would have wanted me back.

I remember receiving aletter sent to my parents from the Seed around '87? And in it Shelly explained that the Seed was changing from an adolescent to an adult only program.
They also implied because the Seed had done so much for me that I should reciprocate with a monetary gift.

At that time, That made me smile because the Seed was the last place I would ever send money too. I had already started to work in my field as an intern so I guess I could have sent something, but it felt better to throw the letter away.

I know many here debate the pros and cons o fthe Seed expereince. A lot of great stuff is written. All I can really do is share My experiences and recollections. That's all I have.

While I was finishing high school in Clev. I remember watching so many of the Clev. kids move down there and then have their problems with fitting in (Rob M) and making it at the Seed. I used to think Why? At that time I was getting good enough grades in HS to apply for several good schools. But, I was lead to believe a life at the Seed in FL was the best use of my ability.
How wrong was that? My abilties were never in the area of "rapping" or being and egoist.
So I sold my myself short.
I remember sitting in group and thinking if I left could I make enough money to have an apartment and a TV. I didn't have big dreams for myself.

For every staff member and "insider" there were a dozen of us just trying to understand what was happening each day.

W

The way I see it today, I truely wish I would have been one of the 10% who didn't get the Seed. You know, asked to leave. One of the failures. Instead, I gave up my soul, what i believed and felt was right, and more importantly the bond that is natural with my family
My Mom was a young 36 yr old woman with 2 out of control kids in 1976. My older brother was threatened with the Seed roughly 2 yrs before my sentence in 1978. He asked if he could attend a Kinks concert the might before his admission. Sometime during his being out of the house that night my Mom chnged her mind. A reprieve that has made the KInks, one of my brothers favorite bands to this day.
I wasn't so lucky a few yrs later.

During my Seed 78-85-yrs, if I could take back everytime I told my brother I didn't want to have anything to do with him unless he went to the Seed and got "straight", I would in a heartbeat. Especially considering my brother was straight already-through a program in Columbus, OH.
An AA based program that did it the right way, No false prophets.
The Seed knew this but told me HE still he was an a__hole because he hadn't been to the Seed.

I wish I could calmly analyze the pros and cons of the Seed.
But, I can't.

I have spent yrs rebuilding the relationship I have with my brother and mother. An understanding needed to be acquired on all our parts. But the difference is my family has only wanted me to be me.
The Seed never wanted me to be me. They only wanted a slightly dim-witted worker bee. No questions asked. I supplied.

I wish I could forget about Roger, LD, JG, others, EW. Any of the great, many brillant guys who were treated like crap by the Seed-I witnessed the treatment.

So, no, I see no place in this world for the Seed and it's ilk- the sanctimonious JU and others.

We were driving to the Seed one day and A Horse With No Name came on the radio,   We told dad Art said we weren't allowed to listen to that type of music.  Dad turned up the volume.....  
I still love when that song comes on the radio it reminds me of my dad.

Hey. It really makes me smile to read stories like this. I am so glad that there were parents out there who didn't buy into the bulls*#t of the Seed like so many other parents I saw.
I can remember driving home with my oldcomer Ed ?. He lived in Hialeah, this was around '78. We were driving home from the SR84 Seed and he put in a tape of BOC's (Don't Fear) The Reaper, which I recall a staff member saying once in a rap that it was one of the biggest "druggy songs" there ever was. I might be confusing it with a David Bowie song, but I think that was the story. Anyways, I kept looking at him and wondered what he was doing listening to this song and If I remember, I asked him this as well. He said it was a great song, Today, I do like the cow bell in it.

After we got home I told his Mom what we had done. She told me to tell staff the next day.

So, I felt so egregiously bad about what we had done that I told Cookie the next day that we listened to BOC last night on the trip home. Shortly, thereafter I was moved to another foster home.
It wasn't long after this that I never saw Ed around the Seed again. Looking back at it, I guess he was the lucky one, but, I only wonder if I had told a different parent they might have laughed the whole (Don't Fear) The Reaper thing off. Like hey it's just a song. There is no such thing as a "druggy song". But, to a 14 yr old kid hood-winked by all the smoke and mirrors, I couldn't see the truth.

"Someone had to figure somehow Art couldn't beat everyone at softball at 70 years old. people had to realize "awareness" really meant closing your eyes to reality and telling yourself a myth based in mysticism. And people had to see other's profiting off of the devotees' dedication to idealistic perfection, sipping iced tea in their air conditioned paid for houses as these poor saps mowed lawns, washed cars and cleaned other people's houses in order to gain status in the group.

The whole thing was a sham, and I feel for those of you that fell for it for so long."

I agree very much with what you're saying Greg. I have read here where it seems some people are getting misty eyed with their recollections of staying the night at the Seed, gardening that kind of stuff. They are failing to remember the place as it was. The Seed was a place where you couldn't take a crap without asking for permission. Is this right?
I was there from 82-85, and during that time my grandmother passed away. I asked them permission to go the funeral, as I had to ask them permission to do anything( take a piss, buy a sandwhich). They said they would get back to me. "get back to me?" To them my Grandmothers funeral was not as important as Art & staff going to the Bagel Nosch for lunch, or one of those meaning less softball games ou tin the back field, where Bob W. instructed you to "pitch it so Art could hit it".
I am glad that they decided I could go to the funeral after the 3 days that I kept my family waiting for the answer so they could make their plans.
All that ever mattered to them was their own stuff!
I would rather deal with life's trials and tribulations, the up's and down's, then to be hanging out at some mostly abandoned building not getting in on the richness that life offers. We traded our souls to be at the Seed. That is not an OK thing for me today as I can love and am loved.