Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: mikehunt on July 12, 2004, 08:07:00 AM
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as some of you may know from my other posts around here, i'm compiling a book of stories about cedu experiences. this is what i feel that i need to do right now to get more information out there to prevent more children from being sent away these types of.
i'd like stories from every angle about every element of their experience; students, family members, ex-staff members, therapists, etc. talking escorting, "the program" (and your experience with it), parental manipulation, or whatever else you'd like to write about. if it's necessary for legal reasons(ex-staff members/therapists), published anonymity is ok (and encouraged, if that's what you need to come forth... i'd absolutely love to have any sort of staff member's perspective represented in my collection.) however, i cannot let you stay anonymous with me (such information would NOT be passed on, it simply serves the purpose of verification.) my integrity will not allow me to publish something that i have doubts about; i need to be 100% confident in my collection's credibility.
my book will be formatted so that every person's story gets it's own chapter for which i'll most likely write an introduction. there will be minimal editing, as i'd like to keep them in your own syntax, only making necessary grammatical corrections.
at some point, i'd like to start working on some sort of film (a compelling and firey 'michael moore' style documentary.) for this, i will also need your input, however, i'd like to start working on my former project a bit more intensively before i get into this one.
anyway, please let me know if you'd be interested in having your story/insights divulged. we need to be heard to make the sort of change we're striving for.
please get contact me if you're interested.
email (i've made a new address for this) - [email protected]
aim - fiend4vinyl
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laura solomon
cedu vet. 1996-1999
RIP[ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-07-12 05:10 ]
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It seems like most here want to defeat these places. If you want to do so, case studies are only a part of the picture. You have to defeat their practices and preachings in theory. I started this other thread with that in mind.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... forum=32&2 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6010&forum=32&2)
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the way to do this is by informing the people so that these practices' natures are exposed.
without supporters, the schools will shut down.
we have to change the mentalities of the people; that's a hard task. what exactly are you trying to do?
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by the way, my goal is not to shut the schools down, that's just the result. my goal is to inform people that there is a huge difference between ethical and unethical therapy, and that they must be wise when choosing a therapist.
ideally, i'd like to help people live their lives so that they do not need therapy. i'd like to help parents communicate with their kids. i'd like to help the world become more spiritually attuned; if only they'd trust their intuition, things would work out fine.
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There were some good things about it, there always are. Learning how to work and learning vocations is always a good thing.
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i think there was a lot more than that... as i say all the time on here: there were a lot of good lessons taught by horrible teachers.
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didn't mean to post anon...
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Yeah, I guess from reading all the horror stories on here of student suicides that bottom line they spoke of was sure true.
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scrubbing pans, obsessive cleaning, chopping wood, shoveling shit, cleaning trails, etc... are not what i would consider learning vocations. these are activities that any idiot with half of a brain can do. as for running your feelings and the rest of that emotional growth bullshit, none of that has any value in the real world. business is about sales and profit, period. nobody gives a shit about your feelings! why, because feelings are like assholes, everyone has them! mine are no more important than yours.
i can't remeber a time in my life when i felt
more pain, despair, and isolation than my time at cedu. the one thing i learned from the experience was how to survive, depend on, and think for myself. i didn't learn that at cedu, i learned that in the 3 and 1/2 months that i spent living on the streets, and hiding from the cops after i finally split from that hellhole. out there i saw people murdered, i saw people killing themselves (crackheads and junkies), i saw cops beating people within an inch of their lives for sleeping on the wrong street corner. i saw people beating the shit out of each other over the smallest morsal of food. I never felt more fear in my life. still i would've spent an eternity living that life, than spend one more day at cedu.
i don't pride myself for surviving my time at cedu, but i take great pride in the strength i found to pull myself out of there. those streets are where i learned the greatest lessons of my life, and that's where i found the tools to make it in this world!
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Stories last forever the change with the climate of time..each tick tick tick ...kick kick kick..
33 years of life have been lived..
.since it all means stay in touch with your soul.
..if you can find your soul that is...stay close to fear..embrace your darkness....kiss the night sky..breath deep the moving waters
.stay in love with life.....
"Da Bronx streets"..I'll never forget where I've come from 33 years later..Living on the wings of a Angel........
Peace Still Kick after all these years....
Loving LifeThe very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.
George Washington
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Has anyone ever read books about Charles Manson with quotes of things he said? He uses some of these terms like CEDU, like being "centered". Is it possible CEDU was really spawned from the Manson family?
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Nah, Manson would've probably eaten/fucked anybody like wasserman or whoever.
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There was one woman working there that confessed to having been a member of the SLA (the ones who kidnapped Patty Hearst).
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did this SLA woman work at cedu? when?[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-13 08:07 ]
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On 2004-07-12 12:48:00, SON OF SERBIA wrote:
"scrubbing pans, obsessive cleaning, chopping wood, shoveling shit, cleaning trails, etc... are not what i would consider learning vocations. these are activities that any idiot with half of a brain can do. as for running your feelings and the rest of that emotional growth bullshit, none of that has any value in the real world. business is about sales and profit, period. nobody gives a shit about your feelings! why, because feelings are like assholes, everyone has them! mine are no more important than yours.
i can't remeber a time in my life when i felt
more pain, despair, and isolation than my time at cedu. the one thing i learned from the experience was how to survive, depend on, and think for myself. i didn't learn that at cedu, i learned that in the 3 and 1/2 months that i spent living on the streets, and hiding from the cops after i finally split from that hellhole. out there i saw people murdered, i saw people killing themselves (crackheads and junkies), i saw cops beating people within an inch of their lives for sleeping on the wrong street corner. i saw people beating the shit out of each other over the smallest morsal of food. I never felt more fear in my life. still i would've spent an eternity living that life, than spend one more day at cedu.
i don't pride myself for surviving my time at cedu, but i take great pride in the strength i found to pull myself out of there. those streets are where i learned the greatest lessons of my life, and that's where i found the tools to make it in this world! "
that's what i learned too; i have a lot of power, i'm a strong mother fucker. in order to survive at cedu, i had to tap into a source of power that i didn't know i had. i learned a lot. as much as i loathed it, i would never trade that experience for anything.
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Yeah, she was a counselor. I heard she was there from the late '70s into the '80s.
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are you saying that you stayed at cedu intentionally? isn't that a bit sadistic?
i mean here you have your life that they don't
let you live, removed from you is free will,independent thought, and everything that ever mattered to you, in essence your life is snuffed out, it's like being in a coma. don't get me wrong, it took me 1 year and 7 months before i finally got out (5 previous escape attempts, making it 6 total), but my goal always remained to get the fuck out of there. my independent spirit, sense of self preservation, and my fundumental right to something better demanded it. to me staying at cedu was like committing suicide day after day.
how could any of us deny ourselve, what by all rights is ours, and only ours; the right to choose
who we are?
i understand that fear is a real motivator, and if someone truly feared for their life, then i see why they would stay at cedu, but honestly, i never felt that vibe. did you feel that way? what made you stay?
for me getting out once and for all was the only
option, it was the only way i would truly be alive, i knew that with every fiber of my being.
[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-13 08:42 ][ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-13 08:46 ][ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-13 08:52 ]
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I was more like you and got out fast but I observed some folks there who had become comfortable with the other people and the system, they were no longer getting yelled at in raps so they stayed.
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nivek, i know the type, they allways line up across the room at the beginning of every rap and start screaming at guys like you and me when staff gave the signal, i swear they were like trained dogs!!! [ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-13 08:51 ][ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-13 08:53 ]
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I guess it's really the same strategy as in prison. They keep the cons pitted against each other and this allows them to control everyone.[ This Message was edited by: NivekOgre on 2004-07-13 11:44 ]
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I went to CEDU in 1987 and split after five and a half months; my second attempt was successful.
What happened the first 5 times you tried to split?
They always told us they'd kick us out if we keep trying to split (like it was a privelege to be there.)
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Serb, I agree with you 100%. For me, there was no redeeming factor about CEDU. Comparitively, I learned nothing. I cannot justify the torture and attrocities of CEDU school, by thinking it made me into a stronger person. Fuck that excuse. I suggest using that reasoning to comfort an ex-prisoner at Abu Graib.
There is no comfort and there is no excuse. 2 and 1/2 years of my life were spent being systematically brainwashed, stripped of all my rights- the right to education, health care, free press, freedom of assembly, free speech, and freedom to seek happiness which is defined constitutionally as the increase of joy and the decrease of sorrow. Not to mention daily physical and mental abuse. How about labor laws?
Didn't we do all the cleaning, landscaping, rock walls, ditch digging, dishes, etc.? What the fuck were they payed $5900 a month for?
Did it make me a stronger person?
I don't know- so does taking a shit in the morning.
Sorry, but you gotta figure out who you are. I am just not anything resembling what CEDU tried to make me into. I highly doubt anyone who knew me there would even recognize me physically- let alone mentally. Maybe Laura's philosophy is a lot like what CEDU tried to make her, so she finds that CEDU was a good lesson taught by bad teachers.
Frankly, I can't find a single thing in their philosophy that I can agree with.
You know what most people do with their sins?
They bury and forget them.
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Shit, the only way I knew of to get kicked out was to fuck-off a lot right before you turned 18, walk out of the Summit (probably the I and ME, but I'm not sure). For everything else, you got either a fat full-time, ascent, mental hospital, or a free trip to a lock-down facility
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I guess I got lucky because the first time I split, I got caught by an off duty police officer who really did NOT want to bring me back, but whose job was on the line.
So, of course they told my parents to tell me I'd go to lock up if I split again. (Why a person who was no danger to anyone else who had zero aggressive tendecies go to lock up was beyond me.) Anyway, the second time I split, I decided to ask my parents to pull me out during the parent weekend. I could see my Dad was beginning to have doubts about the place--but he was going along with w/Mom. CEDU worked them over and I made the decision to split immediately following. I already told that whole story of my successful split (after staying a week w/some lady babysitting her kids, she drove me to my home city where she was attending a family reunion.)But I banked on Dad not sending me to lock up and I was right. Thank Freaking GOd.
If worse came to worse, I would have left after another 6 months when I turned 18, but truthfully, I would have probably been more brainwashed by them.
One thing I do want to know: How come nobody managed to convince their parents to pull them out on home visits?
Shanlea
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the first time i split the police caught me. the second time i split a staff member (on his day off) ran into me by pure chance at a VONS in san bernardino, and talked me into going back. the third time i split i came back on my own. the fourth & fifth times my parents hired private investigators who tracked me down and brought me back. the sixth time was the charm. i did a table for the first escape attempt, and full times for attempts two, three, four, & five. before escaping the final time, the longest i had stayed out of cedu (before being returned) was 1 week.
I was only 14 when i first came to cedu and my first 4 attempts were a spur of the moment thing. i never lasted more than a few days before they caught me. my fifth attempt was planned (i split on my first home visit) but i made to mistake of spending more than one night in the same place, and i got nailed.
my sixth attempt i had planned for about 3 months, including how i would get home (i lived in chicago)and where i would hideout once i got back home. (as an older student they didn't monitor my phone calls anymore, instead of calling my parents, i called my friends---my parents never complained because they were ignoring me ever since the 5th time that i split). i also found out that i could keep my old permission slips (staff would always hand them back to me for some reason), change the dates, and re-use them at nights where different staff were on the floor. i was calling my buddies in San Diego, and Chicago at least 3-4 times a week for almost 3 months---and Cedu payed the bills!!! HA, Ha, HA !!!
getting to chicago with no money or identity was the hard part (that took me 2& 1/2 months), and thats when i slept on street corners and witnessed horrors i spoke of before. once in chicago i had a network of close friends (and even some family) set up, who moved me from place to place. i spent only 1 night in chicago without a roof over my head. i knew my parents would hire someone to find me, so i had to constantly stay on the move. like i said, i planned for months.[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-14 07:28 ]
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Wow. I must say you were determined! HOw did you pull your life back together? Did you ever go back to school? Did you eventually go home? Did your street experience help you in any way? I just turned 17 when I went; 6 months later I split. If I were younger, I might have been sent back. It's a tough thing being so young with no rights in that crazy bin.
OK: I'm curious about why people went? Did you need intervention or would you have grown out of whatever your parents sent you there for... CEDU sucks, in a perfect world, what would have been helpful to you?
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the previous posting was shanlea by the way
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yes i did eventually go home, patched things up with my parents, and went back to highschool. my senior year i pulled straight A's, and i went on to college where i earned my bachelors degree in film/video with a minor in communications. my television career never happened, and i ended up going back to school part time and i earned my associates degree in construction management. i'm now a general contractor (i went onto business with my father), and i make a decent living at it. even though life turned out okay for me, i did a lot of crazy shit for years after cedu, lots of drugs, fighting, lots criminal shit, not to mention i was a total pig who fucked anything that touched him. eventually i settled down, got married, and my wife gave birth to our 1st son this past april. looking back now i'm amazed that i'm not dead, in jail, or suffering from an std right now. i know that god was looking out for me.
why did i get sent to cedu? basically i was a young, stupid kid, who thought he knew everything, and wouldn't listen to anyone. my body had grown much faster than my mind did (at 14 i was already 6'-1"), when i realized that my parents couldn't bully me around anymore (my dad was the physical type), i decided i could do whatever i wanted. i skipped school, smoked pot, started having sex, hung out with gang bangers,i was openly defiant, i didn't even try to hide what i was doing. i was sent to cedu because no one could control me.
the one thing i learned from the cedu experience is that i can't just do anything i want, some where down the line i would have to pay for it. after cedu, i got my head out of my ass and decided i wanted to be somebody, and the only way to be someone is to have goals and work towards them, and not just fuck off all of the time expecting good things to come to me. if you want something out of life, then you have to make it happen.
was cedu the only way for me to realize that? no i don't believe so. i think eventually i would have grown up and come to my senses, or have had the sense knocked into me. perhaps my experiences from cedu helped speed the process up a bit, being on the streets makes you grow up pretty fast, but i firmly believe that i would have made it okay the same, with or without cedu.
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On 2004-07-13 08:41:00, SON OF SERBIA wrote:
"are you saying that you stayed at cedu intentionally? isn't that a bit sadistic?
i mean here you have your life that they don't
let you live, removed from you is free will,independent thought, and everything that ever mattered to you, in essence your life is snuffed out, it's like being in a coma. don't get me wrong, it took me 1 year and 7 months before i finally got out (5 previous escape attempts, making it 6 total), but my goal always remained to get the fuck out of there. my independent spirit, sense of self preservation, and my fundumental right to something better demanded it. to me staying at cedu was like committing suicide day after day.
how could any of us deny ourselve, what by all rights is ours, and only ours; the right to choose
who we are?
i understand that fear is a real motivator, and if someone truly feared for their life, then i see why they would stay at cedu, but honestly, i never felt that vibe. did you feel that way? what made you stay?
for me getting out once and for all was the only
option, it was the only way i would truly be alive, i knew that with every fiber of my being.
[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-13 08:42 ][ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-13 08:46 ][ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-13 08:52 ]"
no, i think it would've been sadistic for me to leave....
when i hit threshold, i knew i was strong enough to make it through the bullshit. i didn't, on the other hand, at 12, 13, or 14, know what the fuck to expect from living on the streets in california, where i knew nobody. this one girl mentioned to me that we could become prostitutes and change our appearances... i wasn't too hot on that idea.
i'm confused, you say that cedu wouldn't let you think independently, yet you're saying you did... i realized that they didn't want me to make judgements, but that was of my nature, so i had to. i can't not think for myself; that's where my strength came in. whenever i considered running away, the cons outweighed the pros.. i knew that i would be ok after cedu one way, but the other way, i couldn't be sure of anything. thus, i stayed at cedu until they virtually kicked me out.
i don't regret a thing... i've learned quite a bit along the path i've chosen.
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oops, i thought i was logged in.
bryan, i believe in universal balance (yin and yang... in cedu language: the pendulum), love (cedu tried to teach this, but they contradicted themselves... teach by example, duh) and taking control over your body/mind (accountability for our own actions and responses. for me, this is free will... you have to take on all of your societal programming.) oh yeh, and i believe that your "inner child" is the divinity within yourself. you can get in touch with that through meditation. if you believe that "god" is within you, you believe in an "inner child", even though that term may make you feel a bit troubled.
some of their morals, i agree with. i DO NOT agree with their standardized methods or the theories backing them.
i learned a lot through observation at cedu as well... [ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-07-14 18:58 ]
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"but my goal always remained to get the fuck out of there. my independent spirit, sense of self preservation, and my fundumental right to something better demanded it. to me staying at cedu was like committing suicide day after day."
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!
"i understand that fear is a real motivator, and if someone truly feared for their life, then i see why they would stay at cedu, but honestly, i never felt that vibe. did you feel that way? what made you stay?"
I didn't stay.I felt unbelievable amounts of fear and that's why this kitty ran the hell out of Dodge. I KNEW I'd be worked over into the CEDU version of the Stepford Wife and I RAN!!! And ran and ran. and i only looked back now.
--shanlea
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Shanlea, you are a smart woman!
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laura, so in a nutshell, it sounds like your telling me that you stayed at cedu because you were to afraid to risk going out on your own and finding something better. no one says you had to be a prostitute, i never sold my body to anyone.
believe me, in California, i had just as many propositions as you would've! what were the pro's of staying at cedu? three meals a day (and the food really wasn't that good) and a roof over your head? big fucking deal! is that really worth LOSING 2 and 1/2 years of your life? you said that
" I knew that coming out of cedu, I'd be okay. I didn't know the other way" don't you really mean that coming out of cedu, you knew you'd be comfortable? face it laura, you were too afraid to take a chance, to afraid to take your life back, that's why you stayed at cedu. You weren't living your life, i'm not even sure if being at cedu qualifies as existing. Be honest laura, fear did motivate you to stay. [ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-07-15 08:36 ]
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On 2004-07-14 18:08:00, mikehunt wrote:
"oops, i thought i was logged in.
bryan, i believe in universal balance (yin and yang... in cedu language: the pendulum), love (cedu tried to teach this, but they contradicted themselves... teach by example, duh) and taking control over your body/mind (accountability for our own actions and responses. for me, this is free will... you have to take on all of your societal programming.) oh yeh, and i believe that your "inner child" is the divinity within yourself. you can get in touch with that through meditation. if you believe that "god" is within you, you believe in an "inner child", even though that term may make you feel a bit troubled.
some of their morals, i agree with. i DO NOT agree with their standardized methods or the theories backing them.
i learned a lot through observation at cedu as well... [ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-07-14 18:58 ]"
I'll give you a hint, nothing was standardized about their methods, no university is teaching them and in fact they told me not to tell anyone about what they were saying and doing. It was really just a bunch of stuff Wasserman had put together reading some books here and there plus the Synanon influence. Nothing standard about that.
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I don't think the theories are standardized; I think they have standardized applications of their so-called "therapy." The standard application is abusive confrontation.
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Why did I stay? When I returned from my splitting I had been starved in the desert with one homicidal gangmember and five other delinquents for four weeks. I had been promised while at a foster home ( i had refused to return to RMA) that I could go home. Instead I was sandwhiched into a car with Mike Parr (to make sure I didn't run away again) and The chief of Idaho Police. They were waiting for me after I lost my twenty pounds and had eaten racoon, mouse, rabbit, dog, snake and bananna peels. I was taken back to where I had run away from six weeks before. That first week I was happy to have food and not be afraid for my life.
After that though, I didn't run away but tried everything else I could think of to leave. I really almost killed myself there. I hated being incacerated more than any of the motherfuckers posting here. MORE. I stayed because I had NO CHOICE. I had already lived on the streets some as a fourteen year old but when my parents said I could stay at RMA and finish the program (that would have been two years) or go to a lock up until I was eighteen and never talk to them again)That ain't no choice. I wish to god I had waited another year before fucking up so much at home because I would have had the strength to leave. I would have been more adult. The threats of going to a lock up for four years when I was that young was enough to scare me. It was worse that way because I had to learn to accept what I KNOW I did not believe. So I allowed them to kill some 'ME'. It couldn't be helped, it was simply self preservation. Big difference between fourteen and fifteen. Treating us that way. My parents couldn't deal. That's what I am seeing is the root of the existance of CEDU. so they were right about that one thing: the world is fucked up and parents don't raise their kids right. it's a cycle. PRobabaly the reason I won't have kids is RMA. I learned that from Chuck and Vicki. Isn't that chuck solent? I have to blame RMA for how I turned out. And I have to blame RMA and my parents for sending me there.
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On 2004-07-15 07:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I don't think the theories are standardized; I think they have standardized applications of their so-called "therapy." The standard application is abusive confrontation. "
that's what i'm saying... i don't agree with their application or the theories backing these applications (surely, there is theory behind their application... ie- we can use harsh confrontation to break people down, then we can build them back up.)
here's the definition of standard that i was going by:
a) An acknowledged measure of comparison for quantitative or qualitative value; a criterion.
b) An object that under specified conditions defines, represents, or records the magnitude of a unit.
they used an approach that would treat us all in the same manner, harshly. perhaps you associate something else with standardized, like a popular method (although this was, at one point, a popular method... straight inc was a pretty popular treatment center back in the day.) but when you apply the same treatment to a roomful of individuals... are you expecting them all to respond in the same way? or are you taking into account that most people don't fit the mold of your standard. they're trying to mold people.
of course i was fearful, which caused me to stay. perhaps i would've run away if i hadn't been so scared. but i was certainly strong enough to handle it when i did stay... i didn't let them kill me as i watched the people around me commiting suicide one by one.
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In some ways I wondered if people who were too afraid to split were simply reacting to a gut feeling. Maybe your gut feelings informed you that it would be more dangerous to split, and that gut feeling was actually your preservation. Especially if home wasn't three hours away, like mine.
My gut feeling told me that if I could just make it all the way home, I wouldn't be sent back (or to a lock up) even though that was the threat. I also--I know this is weird--had a weird feeling I would not have to hitch hike, that I would meet a good person who would help me, and that is exactly what happened. It helped that I was 17, too. If I were 14, I would have been screwed.
Who knows? I was a big chicken shit so there is no way I would have hitchhiked or lived on the street--maybe partially due to being a female.
Shanlea
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On 2004-07-15 15:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"In some ways I wondered if people who were too afraid to split were simply reacting to a gut feeling. Maybe your gut feelings informed you that it would be more dangerous to split, and that gut feeling was actually your preservation. Especially if home wasn't three hours away, like mine.
My gut feeling told me that if I could just make it all the way home, I wouldn't be sent back (or to a lock up) even though that was the threat. I also--I know this is weird--had a weird feeling I would not have to hitch hike, that I would meet a good person who would help me, and that is exactly what happened. It helped that I was 17, too. If I were 14, I would have been screwed.
Who knows? I was a big chicken shit so there is no way I would have hitchhiked or lived on the street--maybe partially due to being a female.
Shanlea "
that's what i'm saying... i thought something absolutely awful would happen if i left. i wasn't prepared for that. i've always felt myself to be a highly intuitive person.. this may just be rationalization, but whatever, i did what i needed to do, and i don't regret it.
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Any More Stories?
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On 2004-07-21 19:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Any More Stories?"
if there are, send them to my inbox... thanks.