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Messages - jgar

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1
The Seed Discussion Forum / Re: Art Barker & the Beginning of the SEED
« on: February 03, 2011, 09:07:20 PM »
The reporters name who did the story on the Seed was Fred Francis. I'm sure there is an old copy his archive somewhere. He was a national reporter.

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Re: Art Barker & the Beginning of the SEED
« on: February 03, 2011, 08:57:52 PM »
As I remember the story was back in the early seventies many influential people were paraded into the Seed  showing off the Seed as a model for drug rehabs. People in law enforcement politicians, Doctors ,psychiatrist and reporters. Even back around 1971 a report was done by Francis now I can't remember his last name was done called "The Seed of Hope" and was run on the national networks. Anway back during this era I believe it was the 72 primaries Edwin Muskie was running on the democratic ticket for president and came to visit the Seed and was taken thru an open meeting. In typical fashion he was very gratiuos and impressed by the Seed. During his visit several reporters were present and interviewed him. According to Art about a week later a story appeared in a newspaper in Maine that during the visit Art asked Muskie if there was a problem in Maine with Blacks and Muskie replied no but there's a Canook problem.Art denied this exchange had ever occurred and when the paper refused to retract the story Art flew to Maine and protested in front of the paper to make public that the story they printed was untrue. Art claimed that this story was an attempt as a smear campaign to discredit Muskie in his bid for nomination of the democratic party. Later after Watergate it his revealed that this was part of the dirty tricks that was originated by the White house "Plumbers" who were also responsible for the break in at Sargent Shrivers psychiatrist office in an attempt to smear Sargent Shriver who was running for vice president under George McGovern and with the breaking into the democratic campaign headquarters at the Watergate hotel. Art also claimed that because of his actions at the newspaper he became a target of the "plumbers" in an attempt to discredit Art the Seed was audited in an attempt to discredit Art and the Seed and close down the Seed. Art claimed that the agents mistreated the Seed's staff and so he through them out. You probably can find the article somewhere in the archives in Maine's newspapers.

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Re: Art Barker & the Beginning of the SEED
« on: February 02, 2011, 09:52:15 PM »
As per a conversation that had with Greg Fl a few years back he told me that he had infiltrated Synanon and found no connection with Art Barker. There is no record of Art ever being part of Synanon. That being said there are some strange similarities especially that both use the 7 steps versus the traditional 12 steps from AA. I can remember conversations with Art and he always claimed that the Seed was a direct offshoot of AA and that he had condensed the 12 steps down to 7 steps. The reason he gave was that some steps were repetitive and not needed. The story I can recall was that the Seed started off behind the Playboy club in North Miami Beach on his 1929 Elco "trade Winds" yacht as impromptu meetings with some local junkies. He also told stories of AA meetings in New York with some actors such as George C Scott, Art Carnie, Bobby Darren. He claimed the meetings were held during the day when he was not performing his comedy act in the Playboy club. The other comedian happened to be a young George Carlin. He told me once at dinner that George Carlin was an arrogant prick. The meetings got bigger and he moved to Ft. Lauderdale to bigger locations some of the early members was Libby later changing her name to Lybbi Barker, Robert Chun ect. who later ended up as the main Staff members. I'm going off some old memories in the hope of trying to shed some light to your question. The time I went thru the Seed was during the early 80's as one of the last court ordered persons. Soon after that due to the state of Florida changing the laws regarding the supervision of minors and back ground checks for those who would be in charge of the minors the Seed stopped taking in minors.The changes in the law was a knee jerk reaction by law makers because of the child molestation case of Frank and Illiana Fuste from the infamous Country Walk Day Care center. Art stated in the group he would not have anyone subject to scrutiny by any agency federal or State. The Seed was attributed to have been the first of it's kind a rehab dedicated to younger drug user. Keeping in mind that back in the late 60's and early seventies is when many kids began using drugs such as pot and acid and whatever else and many of the parents freaked because it was a new and scary problem that no one knew how to deal with. Art addressed the issue to this generations parents. Contrary to popular beliefArt was not a republican in fact hated them. He was a staunch Democrat a big fan of JFK, Rosevelt, Clinton. He despised Nixon and claimed that in the early 70's due some statements he made in favor of Edwin Muskee some false statements were made in an attempt to discredit the Seed and later actual agents were sent in to audit the Seed under direct orders from Nixon's "Plumbers" in an attempt to close the Seed. Some of what I can remember from those old days while I was there.

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The Seed Discussion Forum / "Once You Understand"
« on: January 06, 2006, 04:44:00 PM »
:smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:  :smokin:



I forgot about this song. I remember a couple of movies back when I was really young that inspired rebellion. One was a movie called "Catherine", I think it was Sissy Spacek and Henry Winkler's first major roles she played a student radical during the late 60's. The movie had a lot of old CSNY and Bob Dylan music. The second movie was "Cool Hand Luke".

  :silly:  :silly:  :silly:  :silly:  :silly:  :silly:

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Group Think
« on: December 22, 2005, 02:28:00 PM »
Hey Ginger I wish I had the time to reply to you but I have to go out cause I am leaving to NC for the next few days and will be incomunicado. Your post desires a response. Anyway I'll have to do it next week.

Have a good holiday and all the best to everyone

  :wave:  :wave:  :wave:  :wave:  :wave:  :wave:  :wave:  :wave:

6
The Seed Discussion Forum / Group Think
« on: December 22, 2005, 01:58:00 PM »
Thank you for your kind words and I agree with your approach. I respect your view because you lived it and whether we agree or disagree is beside the point.Due to the fact you lived the Seed I must respect your opinion. Your experience was just as valid as mine.[ This Message was edited by: jgar on 2005-12-22 10:59 ]

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Group Think
« on: December 22, 2005, 12:08:00 PM »
Just for the record Art Barker despised Richard Nixon and always blamed Nixon?s plumbers for deliberately trying to shut down the Seed in it's early years. Some government agency (under order?s from the White house) conducted an audit at the Seed because of some public statement Art made endorsing Edwin Musky, during a failed run for the presidency. Because of this and because Art would have to relinquished control of the Seed into government hands I am convinced that Art would have never agreed to any of this.

In spite of what you may think (again I will say that I was not that close to Art during my years at the Seed) Art did believe in what he was doing was right and good. I say this not to negate your opinion but to say only what I observed. I was not present when this audit happened and perhaps someone who was there could shed some more light on this situation.  

As per any type of study that might have been done (as has been stated before in this forum) has to be carefully scrutinized before any kind of validity can be given. As you well know things can be politically motivated and intent might not be true or pure. I have read or heard about studies that taken for the face value looked good but than  carefully looking into the claims or conclusions the findings are just way off. This is why I always state that my opinions are based only through my years and experiences there. This is why I only give importance to opinions stated by the people who actually went thru the program.
 



[ This Message was edited by: jgar on 2005-12-22 09:11 ]

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Group Think
« on: December 22, 2005, 10:56:00 AM »
Hey Anon,

I can see your point of view and agree with you in most of the aspects that you stated. In my case the Seed helped me immensely and in fact the Seed did what it said it would do and that was to get me off drugs. The Seed also showed me the origins and causes of my problems and that my drug use was just a symptom some other more deep rooted problems. Self understanding and awareness is what the Seed attempted to teach and for the most part it was learned and interpreted by each person differently.

   On the site there are people that are diehard 100 % Seed loyalists than there are the diehard 100 % anti-Seeds who are convinced Seed had no good to offer and that the Seed left everlasting scars. Then there are people like myself in which I believe the Seed did much good but on the same hand the Seed had some imperfects.

   I believe the Seed experience is up to each and ever person who experienced the program to be free to interpreted their experience as either positive or negative. I get such a kick from the people (Anti-Seed) that violently attack those who post those who have anything positive to say, insinuated that we have been so duped and can?t we see how the Seed was all part of some kind of interrelated government conspiracy to gain the control of the minds of middle America thru the manipulation of our adolescent years. Personally I find this mindset just as closed minded as the people who take the opposite stand. On the other hand this free exchange of ideas can encourage a more open examination of one?s experience.

   I believe good or bad begin at the point of intent. What was the intent or the purpose of something? Was it to do good? I believe the Seed intentions were sound and good was the methodology always perfect? Personally after my 6 years at the Seed I never found any evidence of deliberate intent to destroy one?s life just the opposite I saw how people pulled together to help someone. What did hurt was the extremism of people?s actions in how people would profess their loyalty toward the Seed or how certain people almost deified Art. This allowed the group to take a life of its own and after a while the group became kind of inbred and sealed away from the so called real world creating for people an alternative reality. This is what I found so flawed and created my internal conflict which ultimately caused my leaving. In the end this bitter sweet experience served only to deepen my understanding. It?s all in the attitude and in the light in which we choose to see things in.

   Through only my personal observations during my time spent at the Seed is how I base my opinions on my Seed experience.

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Group Think
« on: December 21, 2005, 05:53:00 PM »
:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

LOL Johnny.
I think you left the Seed just before I came in. I went in around October of 83

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Group Think
« on: December 21, 2005, 03:15:00 PM »
Just for the record I was not fond of the football games. I loved going to the beach but not the endless football games and I was not crazy about playing spades. I just figured you take the good with the bad. I did really enjoy body suffering or the bogie boards or snorkeling.

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Group Think
« on: December 21, 2005, 10:38:00 AM »
Hey Walt and thanks,

This to me was such a mind fuck. At first as I tried to strike out in the world thinking that I was so sure of what was right and what I needed to say and do and finding out how easily people would drop me or avoid me(both from the Seed and new acquaintances). Than at some point true loneliness kicked in and a very real sense of being so alone. Still I held onto the idea that if I made some adjustments and continued to move forward I would come out OK. It?s funny how with time so many questions get answered and a fuzzy picture slowly begins to clear. The group never realized that hiding behind its wall would stunt one?s growth. I agree with you in saying my true growth happened outside the group once I had learned certain basic lessons.

 I remember at first how careful I was in daring to question some of the Seeds positions as if I was being some sort of heretic and would be burned at the stake for daring to think different. I was very cautious with dealing with other graduates who were still involved careful as not to say the wrong thing. On one occasion I was shunned by another graduated because I was no longer part of the group and how hurt and angered I was by this situation but yet this only confirmed to me the importance to go and develop in my own way.

I will say that not until I began to post on this sight did I dare to strike out with some negative aspects so openly in my words.   In truth I would not even allow myself to think of these things fearing that this could cause my unraveling and ultimately my destruction.  

To this day I will state that the Seed did change me when I needed to change but this did not mean that I needed to be an indentured servant for the rest of my days.

?But than again it?s only life after all?. (Indigo girls ?Closer to Fine")

[ This Message was edited by: jgar on 2005-12-21 07:40 ]

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Group Think
« on: December 20, 2005, 05:34:00 PM »
The Seed for me was a little more complicated than this. When I realized that it was time for me to be on my way was when I saw how I had replaced my dependency on drugs to a unnatural dependency on the Seed. The Seed had become too much of a crutch and when I realized this I saw how unnatural and debilitating things had become.

It is easy now so many years later to be able to say this but, when this happened it seemed to me to be the hardest decision in my life. It seemed to me that I was questioning the very essence and foundation of who I was and at the very least I was eliminating my only safety net.  I felt like I was questioning my loyalty, my resolve as a person to be able out last any adversity. I wondered if all I had professed to be would be negated by my leaving and I would be nothing more than just another hypocrite.

In truth the hypocrisy was in the overbearing dependence and control the program held over it?s own. This only served to mechanize and control and in essence destroy any progress that was actually made by anyone who was involved and was actually trying to move forward. I can remember old friends accusing me of being brainwashed and how I took pride in being able to shut them out from my life taking comfort in the thought that I knew the truth and the only valid truth.

Time and life have taught me some tough and humbling lessons and through this I have been able to sift through those years and determine what was valid and what was hurtful and destructive, I guess this will be a life long chore. The Seed being that of this world reflected this world in its flaws and its politics and it?s inner complexities but, by no means did this negate it?s truth and it?s sound philosophies. In the end I was able to exercise what scared us the most which; was my own freewill.  
       
The Seed in my opinion through my experience as life can be was both a blessing and a curse . I thank God that I found the Seed and than when the time came I had the ability to walk away. What surprised me the most was in the end what opened the door for me was my overwhelming desire to make my own decisions and live as I choose to live my life.

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Teenage Wasteland
« on: December 09, 2005, 04:59:00 PM »
That song from the Goo Goo dolls was great. I saw once on some VH-1 special the lead singer explaining  that song was written about some distant memory of a high school girl friend who (if I recall correctly) fell pregant and they had to deal with the issue of having an abortion. (just some mindless trivia)

Funny- this would have been considered a taboo discussion (old ties) at the Seed.  [ This Message was edited by: jgar on 2005-12-09 14:00 ]

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Should some distinctions be made ?
« on: December 09, 2005, 04:29:00 PM »
Hey Fuelaw,

You put it very well and could not agree more with you. All these factors did play very important roles on how people perceived their experiences at the Seed. You expressed these factors very well. To condemn someone for their view in my opinion would be simply wrong and arrogant. I have posted mostly pro Seed but this being the stand that I have decided to take does not for me negate other people whose opinions may differ. This being said I will also admit it has opened my eyes and has given me a certain freedom to critically exam my own experience.

On certain occasions I have seen and felt the anger of those who have violently expressed their opinions as the only true and legitimate view due to whatever their Seed experience might have been.
For the most part I have found that on this forum on most occasions? reason and level headedness has prevailed from both sides of this discussion.  I hope this continues to be the norm.


[ This Message was edited by: jgar on 2005-12-09 13:31 ]

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The Seed Discussion Forum / Good Friends/Reunions Only
« on: December 07, 2005, 03:23:00 PM »
Just for the record, I still regard my years at the Seed in a very positive Light. I still to this day base my life?s foundation on what I learned during that time. The good friends I met during that time was just the icing on the cake. I will not deny that there were some negative aspects but in my opinion the good outweighed the bad.
           
 :grin:  :grin:  :grin:  :roll:  :roll:

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