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Messages - Oscar

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1606
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Victims list update
« on: January 12, 2009, 12:48:53 AM »
Quote from: "Guest"
I'm wondering, do you get  permission from the families to use their dead kids to promote an agenda?

No, we didn't. However all the dead kids are on several lists already. Teen advocates list is properly the most well-known but there are 3-4 more as you can see in the lists references. Second of all the media has written about them and we are only quoting articles already online.

There are some, who is listed as unknown. I guess that a part of the settlement the parents have made is that they are so ashamed of their own flesh and blood that they just want to forget they ever had him or her. If I lost a kid, I would shout out in the world until it is known how it did happen. Even if it did happen in traffic where we accept that mobility has a price of death.

1607
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Victims list update
« on: January 11, 2009, 11:22:23 AM »
I guess that we have to end up with "Death by hanging" because any indication about self-inflicted would not be fair when we dont know what did happen. All we know is how they were found.

Lets take a typical case at a Three springs detention center. A boy is found with a leather belt around his neck. How did he get the leather belt? Did he squeeze himself through the bars, took the belt and squeezed himself back so he could hang himself? I have not heard of any prison allowing inmates to wear a belt.

The night staff saw nothing, because they were as all night staff or dorm parents. If they are not sleeping they are watching TV all night or playing video games, if they are not having sex (Genders means nothing here). A lot of the cases are soon forgotten when it comes to an investigation. The lawyers come in an start talking settlement stressing all, so they write it up as suicide.

I remember a story my now late uncle told me. He was in the law-enforcement in Sweden, but visited colluages in Missouri. While he was down there he was called out to a water-mill where they had emptied a lake in order to do a repair. They found a black dude with chains wrapped around him and a pieces of a rope around his neck and a gunshoot wound in his leg. As the sheriff said: "It was the most perfect suicide, he had seen".

Would it be fair to just accept what is the official result of the investigation?

I also spoke with Wiki Researcher. I can reveal that while he is living in Denmark, he has been around selling goat cheese in some exotic countries (huge business - believe it or not). As he has some experience in suspension hangings he tells: "When the person is hoisted, they experience a sharp pain in their neck. They hear their own heart pounding and their lungs crumple like a paper bag everytime they breath out. The feel their body become heavy and even with untied hands they are not able to loosen the noose. The pain becomes unbearable, but while they feel it like an eternity, the person looses consciousness in about a minute. There is a little kicking. That's where the party term comes from. Normally the crowd is exited." Apparently it is possible to interview survivors because their laws enable people to stop the execution while it is ongoing by paying compensation to the family of the victim. He has been around with the checkbook to save local employees out in the villages. Money talks everywhere.

But as stated above, we will change the sentence on the pages.

1608
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Victims list update
« on: January 11, 2009, 04:35:52 AM »
Here we never use the S-word. What would the the best compromise if Europeans should read it?

"Hanging", but that sounds like an execution.

1609
The Troubled Teen Industry / Victims list update
« on: January 11, 2009, 03:12:23 AM »
For a while we have been working on an extended death list consisting of victims, who lost their lives during a program and victims who died shortly after leaving the program when the PTSD became too much.

Here is our work so far:

Victims in the 1980's
Victims in the 1990's
Victims after year 2000

If you have comments please state them.

1610
Facility Question and Answers / Re: Oakley School
« on: January 10, 2009, 02:41:54 PM »
Well, it isn't that much we have been able to find out. The program was started in 1998. Before AEG purchased them in 2004, it was the less stricter program working closely with Island View, which is a real lockdown. Whether it is used as a step-down program as it was in the old days, we have not been able to find out.

They state on their homepage that you have to be interviewed in order to go there, but several have been transferred from wilderness programs to the program, so how are they interviewed? In the field?

The have both genders both they live separated in two dorms. It is the two houses place opposite each other at the lake. Detainees are living in a room with 4 persons.

They use a level system with 4 ordinary levels and a punishment level.

Internet access is possible after a month if the detainee manipulate himself or herself through the levels. Avoid the "lower" level which is their punishment level.

It is a "lower your head and lick the shoes of the staff when possible" program. They are not going around and restraining people all the time. The detainees knows about Island View or are being told about this place when entering the program and this term is hanging over their head as the Sword of Damocles. That is their disciplinary strategy.

According to threads on the facebook and myspace groups as well as livejournal entries, the therapy doesn't work and if it is you who are going you better save money for real therapy once you reach adulthood.

We are expanding our wiki datasheet about them and until the US versions are syncronized here is the most recent version on the European server.

1611
Open Free for All / Re: Links of Injustices
« on: January 08, 2009, 05:43:36 PM »
Quote from: "MCL27"
Thanks psy for converting the file to pdf.  I hope the guy who said it was some sort of maleware was joking.  Anyways... I was never in a program, I came across Antiwwasp.com while looking up an Ohio court case.  I am very upset that Behavior Modification schools exist, but I am not that surprised at the same time, I learned a long time ago as a kid no one cares what you think since you cannot vote and that because adults are bigger and stronger than kids they can boss them around.  In many cases so called adults act like kids and display the intellects of pre-teens in many cases and the are just taller, have more wrinkles and are bitter over crushed hopes and dreams.

I understand you too. Never was in a program but some of us have relatives who were left behind the iron curtain after WWII where you had to be a communist or ... being sent to a boarding school to adjust. Well the wall came down around 1990, but society has adapted the idea that if you are a ill fit to society or the norms on your parents, you can still be sent somewhere to adjust.

While compiling the links to a word-doc or pdf is a good idea, putting them up on a webpage and categorizing them also works fine. Thats why we have our Wiki-database here with some 5-600 pages.

We could really use someone helping us to find new info for the pages and do some spelling control, because most of the info is uploaded from Europe by posters having English as second language. Could you check your doc against our database and add the links if they are new?

1612
Facility Question and Answers / Re: "oliverian school"
« on: January 07, 2009, 03:34:20 PM »
They are an ISPA member (our datasheet has nothing much to tell about them)

Beside Discovery and Red Cliff Wilderness they have some of the soft programs.

When we have the time we will investigate the programs further. Here is a link to their present membership list.

They dont call themselves therapeutic. You can look at their student handbook here

They go home during holidays. The family can visit after 4 weeks. Not a lot of red lights. I could properly find a boarding school or a continuation school here in Denmark almost as strict, if I looked around.

They are low priority for us to investigate them. If they were not a member at ISPA, we wouldn't have found them. Maybe they are meant to be a stop between program and the home. Teens who have been broken down in one of the other programs being member at ISPA could be warehoused here in a not to strict structure until they are adults for a lesser fee than a full scale program.

1613
...then a local newspaper went into work. They found:

Quote
April 4, 2001: A 15-year-old ranch resident is seriously injured while using farm equipment without adult supervision. He files a personal injury lawsuit in 2005 alleging negligence by ranch managers. He is paid $1.2 million as part of a settlement that also mandates equipment warnings at Mount Carmel.

Sept. 11, 2002: Department of Family Service and Park County Sheriff's Office personnel investigate an incident in which a boy said he was thrown against a wall by a staff member. The staff member said he was lifting the boy out of a chair when the boy threw himself against the wall in an attempt to exaggerate the incident. Police reports note that the boy was moved to a separate facility, but list no arrests in connection with the incident.

March 5, 2003: Police investigate the theft of a $2,000 saddle kept at the ranch. A police report states that a former ranch resident with "an extensive criminal history for his age" confessed to stealing the saddle.

Nov. 15, 2004: A 15-year-old boy runs away from the ranch after another boy used a rope to choke him unconscious following a dispute. Police reports note that ranch staff "did not think that anything other than boys' rough-housing had been going on."

Jan. 7, 2005: Sergei Yates, an adult former ranch resident still living in Park County drives to Mount Carmel and picks up another former ranch resident who returned for a visit and takes him to buy marijuana. Upon returning to the ranch, the visiting boy shared the marijuana with resident boys. Yates is later convicted of possession of marijuana.

May 9, 2005: Police reports indicate a 16-year-old resident of the ranch "is confessing to a murder in Florida two years ago." Further details of the confession are not available.

Sept. 18, 2005: After nine days on the job, a sleeping counselor who was the only adult on an overnight camping trip with eight boys, is brutally beaten with shovels by three of the boys, sustaining a serious and lasting brain injury. Seven of the boys steal a vehicle and flee. One boy runs for help.

Aug. 27, 2006: Ranch staff call police to report a runaway, only to later discover the boy was sleeping in the television room and had been overlooked by staff.

Sept. 25, 2006: James M. Schneller, a 28-year-old counselor employed by and living at the ranch, is arrested. He later pleaded guilty to one felony charge of prescription forgery to obtain narcotics. Police reports quote him as saying he had a prior arrest for a drug-related offense.

Oct. 9, 2006: Four boys from the ranch take a trip to a nearby store, with one of the boys driving, because the ranch employee escorting them had no driver's license. Later that night, they steal a ranch van, money and gas and drive to Oregon. They call the ranch, and are told to spend the night in a motel and wait until staff members arrive to take them back to the ranch.

Oct. 12, 2006: Ranch owner Gerald Schneider calls police to report that a male named "Jimmy," who had been arrested recently on another charge, had provided alcohol to some of the boys at the ranch.

Nov. 11, 2006: A boy from Mount Carmel jumps out of the emergency exit of the ranch's bus in downtown Cody. He is missing for six hours until located by police.

Dec. 12, 2006: Matthew Ivey, a 19-year-old former ranch resident living in Powell, is issued a larceny citation by Park County Sheriff's Deputies for stealing gas from a storage tank at the ranch. When asked why he didn't lock the tanks, the police report states the director "figured he would just lose track of the keys." Ivey later pleaded guilty to charges in the case.

Jan. 18, 2007: Matthew Ivey is arrested and charged with four counts of check forgery. He later pleads guilty to one felony forgery charge.

March 8, 2007: A 17-year-old ranch resident disables an alarm and breaks into a locked box and steals 50 oxycodone tablets, ingesting several before running away. The boy had recently cut off the tip of his little finger while chopping firewood.

March 11, 2007: Sixteen days after a boy accidentally chops off his fingertip while cutting firewood, a boy fractures his ankle while using a sledge hammer and wedge to split firewood

March 30, 2007: Matthew Ivey is arrested in connection with a string of vandalism incidents around Powell involving using a BB gun to break windows in buildings and vehicles. He later pleaded guilty to a felony charge of destruction of property, and received a suspended prison term and five years of supervised probation and was ordered to pay $5,626 in restitution.

Nothing much, but as always an improvement of our wiki datasheet. The Basin Beat Blues blog is also a source when we have time to expand the datasheet.

1614
Open Free for All / Re: Teen Suicide Bombers
« on: January 06, 2009, 02:57:10 PM »
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
I thought it was more virgins than 27? And FYI Oscar.. I cried when saw Bambi. I actually nearly cry when I see a lot things. You'd probably just never guess it.
The number of virgins differ. 27-40-70 have been mentioned. As the other poster writes, I have plenty of problems with just one wife. I know. I am odd but grooming her, cleaning leather etc. so I can be inspired regarding some activities in fiction takes a lot of time.

As for the question from the other poster, I am sorry that I have not been able to find out more about this program. Part of the problem is the language barrier and that they are not on the internet.

Frankly asked directly. No, I don't think that it is a good program. Now where we have been an example of one far away from influence from MADD, La Verkin or even Texas/Missouri's Roloff home, who can honestly state that there is good program out there?

All the components are the same. Worksheets, restraint, corporal punishment, being kept away from local peers.

1615
Open Free for All / Re: Teen Suicide Bombers
« on: January 06, 2009, 12:26:40 PM »
Why are you surprised? Have you not seen the Muslim version of Reclamation Ranch/Victory Forge Military Academy?

If not here is a little link to a video

If you havn't got the time to see it, here is a little spoiler: Each child gets a little black board and then they are given worksheets in the topic: The Koran. Once in a while as it is common in every program, they are sent to "intervention", which in this particular program consist of being shackled. As it is the case with so many religious programs even in the states, they use a little corporal punishment when needed.

The program is fully self-paced so it fits every students need. Instead of a computer, they have hired an old guy down from the local nursing home in order to save money.

It is fully acredited. If there is a problem with the exam papers, they can always consult the 27 young women which are doing the check-in process in the heaven.

It is not very special. It could take place around the corner in Florida or Missiouri with no problems with the local authorities, if the kids were a little older.

1616
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Film on Aaron Bacon
« on: January 06, 2009, 03:37:21 AM »
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
As well, id like to point out that you are posting under a guest name as well... you don't have an account and this name, Bellavita isn't exactly a tell of who you are.

She did have an account.  She asked me to delete it and I did as requested.  All her posts are thus attributed to guests now.
Too bad. Covergaard PM'ed her because he would ask her to write her story about how she was fooled and post it an independent parent forum Rotsne are working in. Many parents are told to seek private options because they are caught with children suffering from ADHD or overmedication who "properly" are on drugs. The police won't have anything to with them, the school won't have anything to do with them because they act out and disturb the education. Some schools are even calling the police on any violence regardless of the fact that it was only a friendly tap on the shoulder. We are talking of kids down to 5'th grade being collected by police and returned to the parents.

Because there are no public solution, they are told to find a private option or wait until the kid is old enough so he or she can be arrested. PFC are just around the corner. Just this morning a poster thanked Rotsne, but they could really need a story from a parent in the states.

1617
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: Film on Aaron Bacon
« on: January 05, 2009, 12:48:13 AM »
Quote from: "FemanonFatal2.0"
From what I can tell, this woman's post was chalked full of blame, insult and hate, and all toward US. Why would I even find reason to be accepting of her, I may be diplomatic with a slight twinge of attitude but I am simply pointing out the truth here. Why are you defending her Psy? Can you not see that I simply pointed out how her general mind state is the same that MANY MANY other parents have, and that mind state is was is driving them to have their children locked up. You may be one of those kids who totally forgave their parents, but as much as my mom is wonderful and awesome I will believe until the day I die that we was overreacting to my adolescent behavior. That is the only point I am trying to get across to her and if this Bellavita woman doesnt come back, so what, but what about the other program parents who decide to show up? I think they deserve a dose of reality as well. I know you think its counter productive but it is my STRONG opinion that if these parents don't WAKE THE FUCK UP we will NEVER win against the troubled teen industry.

Perfect example: do you blame the druggie or the drug dealer... You can lock up the drug dealers but if the druggie is still a druggie they will still be driven to find the drugs from another drug dealer. ALL parents I have spoken to weather for or against the program (that they have experience with) will tell me that there is a dire need for these private prisons and that there ARE some good ones out there. Well, unfortunately there are so few that I haven't even heard of ONE and unless we can help these parents realize that they NEED to just raise their kids come hell or high water then we will always have a program to fight because the program will always be in demand.

It makes me sick how sending your kid off to military school or a program or a mental hospital or rehab has become such a "trend" in the last 20 years. The problem is only partially with the program that abuses kids, the blame SHOULD be on the parents who think they don't have to raise their kids and they can just pay to get them out of their lives. I have never said that a parent who wised up and pulled their kid wasn't an appreciated member of this group, I have simply called upon their judgment to send their kid in the first place as an issue that NEEDS to be addressed! If they aren't willing to talk about it than fine, I highly doubt that coming here and insulting the forum members is any more productive than a good debate. I just hope at some point we will have a parent come to fornits, tell their story and listen to our opinions about the fact that it is ILLOGICAL to think that locking a kid up in a private prison is the way to go, and hopefully change their mind state a little bit.

What I don't understand is the discrepancy in your beliefs. You think that addiction is a choice and getting help for that should only be the choice of the addict, however you defend a parent who is perpetually delusional about their child's "problems" as much to say that being "headed down that path" is enough to lock a kid up?... She may have changed her mind about the program, but she HAS NOT changed the root of the reason she decided to imprison her child, and until that belief changes, her son is in danger of being sent off to another private hell, sooner or later. Until these parents start to change their misconceptions about teenagers the programs will always exist and I will always be the one to stand up and challenge the delusional thinking that has for many years resulted in the abuse and utter LIFE FUCKING of our previous, present and forthcoming generations. Even if I am the only one. So Psy you can argue for the sake of each individual parent all you want, you can tell me that I'm wasting my time if that argument is the most valid one you have but really this all comes down to the fact that I believe there is more abuse going on than meets the eye and I am not afraid or guilted into not saying so. Disagree with me all you want, I strongly welcome any intelligent challenges to my theory, but don't tell me not to speak my mind.

Well, she might have a point in blaming the system.

We know that addiction is a disease. It is international recognized in both the DSM and the ICD. So if you have a addiction, the right place to go is a hospital. But we punish it instead.

So a lot of parents find themselves in a position where they are forced to find a solution or see their child being locked up for many years. In some states even young adults drinking alcohol can result in parents themselves being locked up, if the young adult causes injury to others while being drunk.

That's is where the problem is. Because often the system won't help the parent. They are too focused on punishment and seeking justice for possible "victims".

I was just on our own network and Rotsne told me about a thread in another forum for parents.

Situation: The youth are beating his parents up and destroying property.

Quote
I feel my choices are to: Call the police and be told, once again, they cannnot do anything. Take him to the hospital: I don't think this is the route -- might not be able to justify a 302. Send him to live elsewhere: Don't think anyone we know would be willing or that that could be the answer(GFG has threatened to commit suicide a number of times and has been hospitalized regarding such attempt one time this past October). Call Children and Youth Services: I would like to know more about this before we contact them. I don't know what the implications would be or if he could be in a "safe and structured environment" where he could be watched constantly.

Any suggestions if the system is just waiting until they can lock people up and the youth can join the 1 out of 100 being locked up in the US?

1618
News Items / Re: More programs shutting down
« on: January 05, 2009, 12:25:31 AM »
Quote from: "wdtony"
Quote from: "ZenAgent"
PV lost the contract with TN DCS/Juvenile Court sometime in late 2007 due to an undisclosed fuck-up by the program.  That's the best I can get from TN DCS.   There have been kids placed at PV who were convicted as adults in other states because the parents were wealthy enough to foot the entire tuition.  When PV was used as a substitute for jail in Andy Klepper's sentence, the judge described PV like it was Gitmo.  In that situation, the familty therapist Jean Bolding refused to deliver a letter from a MD judge demanding Klepper's return.  That's how far PV goes to protect rich, private pay patients.  Klepper couldn't stay at PV because TN state officials were so disgusted with the baseball bat rapist Klepper that they refused to allow him to stay.

"baseball bat rapist"?  What the hell is that about?

Teen Guilty in 2002 Sex Case Arrested on New Charge, By Ernesto LondoƱo,  Washington Post Staff Writer,June 8 2006

From the article
Quote
Klepper spent several months at a facility for troubled youths in Tennessee. Kemp and Klepper's father said in court last month that the teenager has been working and taking classes at Montgomery Community College.

but but but ..

Not only PV has a saying in this case. CEDU seemed to be involved as well (look at the comments):

Whitman students charged as adults in sexual assault case, By Robin Hernandez, Silver Chips Online, December 13 2002

They really messed him up. I wouldn't let any female within a mile from him.

1619
The Troubled Teen Industry / The death list
« on: January 03, 2009, 06:24:30 PM »
On the European copy we are right now trying to make an independent webpage of the deaths in the 1990's and while we were investigating, we found a name from the 1980's in this link not mentioned on Teen advocate's list

His name was Brandon Hadden. He was 18 and he died at Texas Neurological Rehab Center, Austin, Texas in mechanical restraints. Any info and was it a program?

We are also looking on info about the third death at Cathrine Freer. Why shouldn't this individual be kept out of history? We believe that everybody deserves a place in history regardless of their conduct.

This page is a part of the death list research. Our goal is to find out how many deaths which are covered up by plea deals and settlements.

1620
Aspen Education Group / Re: TO EMILY GRAEBER (Island View escapee):
« on: January 02, 2009, 03:23:27 AM »
Quote from: "emily graeber"
Quote from: "Guest"
Does anyone know if she's going back?

someone trustworthy?



this is emily. i did go back and after another 9 months, i graduated and am now at a boarding school in new hampshier called the white mountain school. its been a year now since i ran away, it feels like it was yesterday now.
just wanted to let everybody know that im doing fine, although i hate my school a lot.
peace and love
emily
I am truly sorry that you had to go through that. If it becoming too hard to adjust back to the real world our wiki datasheet has a lot of links to survivor groups, who knows what you are dealing with. You are unfortunately not alone.

Stay strong. Maybe 2009 would be the year you can be released back into society. I have checked your present boarding school and while they use wilderness and community service, which here in Denmark are regarded for as an alternative only, it seems that it is less a prison.

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