Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

http://www.progressiveu.org/005526-the- ... n-industry

In a fit of insomnia and discomfort, I made this blog, and... it is now featured on ProgressiveU's homepage and has had nearly 400 reads (since Aug 30th)!! Hyde is not the main focus, but I do mention Hyde, and I'm thinking of making a seperate Hyde post soon. This excites me so much. So many people aren't even aware of what's going on...

I googled "Hyde School Bath Maine", and this(my!) ProgU post was on the top of the eighth page!! I must say, that makes me pretty damn happy, though I am quite sad to see that Fornits has gone down to about the sixth.   :exclaim:

Mr. Bragg! I knew him and remember him very well. He wasn't so bad. In fact, I'd say he's one of the only staff members that I felt might possibly genuinely care about my development, albeit in a somewhat misguided way. But he's pretty scary when he's angry, because I remember him being like 7 feet tall, though that might have something to do with the fact that I was 14-15 and still relatively short.

Quote from: ""TS Waygookin""

Who staffed these trips, normal staff from Hyde or was their a special group of wilderness staff?

What were their qualifications?

"Normal" staff.  How else could you be confronted appropriately as to your character shortcomings, which would become glaringly obvious when you were toiling through the woods with a pack that could be as much as 35% of your body weight?

Hey, I never said a word about that stuff.  Personally, I considered the situation far preferable to the bullshit... er, baloney... on campus.  But there were kids dropping like flies sometimes.  And God forbid you actually had a medical condition that you actually had to defend.  Yes, defend.  Because first you would be put through the wringer for trying to find excuses for slacking off, not challenging yourself enough, not reaching for your personal best.  And no matter how believable your circumstances, no matter how authentic the letter from your family physician was, no matter any of this, there would always be this stigma of trying to sleaze out of something that would hang over your head while at Hyde.

Qualifications?  Ha ha, there's a good one!  Remember:  "attitude is more important than aptitude," and Hyde faculty sure take that one to heart.  Seriously though, the lack of qualifications would freak me out if I were a parent of a Hyde student.  See aforementioned link about the kid who almost drowned on Malcolm Gauld and Paul Hurd's watch.  That situation was brought about by sheer arrogance and stupidity.

Ah, yes. You've captured it so well. When I was there, there was one guy in particular- his name escapes me (stout, short guy, brown hair and slight facial hair, probably around 30something)- that went on all the wilderness trips, but he was just a part of the "normal" Hyde staff that took a liking to it, I'm pretty sure. And the second staff member could be anyone. When I was there, I had no idea of the staff members' actual "qualifications"; all I knew in my 14-15 year-old head was that they certainly didn't seem to know what the hell they were doing. At all. Now I know that's because they didn't... Hyde, apparently, doesn't give a shit about qualifications, and will hire you without a college degree/any sort of real experience in dealing with kids at all, nonetheless kids with serious issues. Some of them probably went to Hyde themselves; I just found out that a girl named Adele who used to be in my dorm, one or two years older/ahead of me, now works in Dean's Area. She has been since she graduated.

OR perhaps the Fox and the Grapes:  " I don't want to be no stinking intellectual.  They smart people got no character"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fox_and_the_Grapes

 :idea:
 :rofl:

Seems entirely possible to me.

I was very young, and they all seemed way more grown up than I was, even the kids who actually turned out to be my same age.

DITTO! (Ha.) Seriously though, I was fourteen when I came to Hyde, and to an extent, I felt that way, as well. The few other fourteen year-olds there seemed more mature than me in many ways, and most kids were at least fifteen, or sixteen or seventeen. How old were you at the time? Just curious.

Actually it only makes it easier on me. With you two most of what I will be doing is steering the conversation. Easiest interview I've ever done.

What is the living arrangements like during the wilderness trips?

Coed?

What was a daily schedule like?

From Hyde's own website*:

"OUTPOST
Outpost is a service provided to the Hyde boarding school students. Outpost students are challenged in an outdoor setting to face unproductive attitudes and reconnect to a sense of personal excellence."


I never had any experience with "WFLC" (Wilderness Family Learning Center), and prior to viewing Hyde's website just now, I didn't know that "Adventure Trips" existed. All I experienced myself (in terms of Hyde's wilderness programs) was outpost. so that is what I will describe. I went on three outposts during my stay at Hyde: Seguin, this canoe-thing sometime in the early fall, and then Thansgiving Outpost. I already mentioned Seguin, and basically covered what it was like there. I only stayed at Seguin for a few days, while the latter two lasted 2-3 weeks each. They were all coed, but of course boys and girls slept in different tents.

I actually have a few fond memories** of the canoe trip, a lot of horrible ones, but a few fond ones. The water was really pretty, and our schedule was basically getting with a partner and canoe-ing all day, every day, supplies in tow. Of course, this was totally exhausting. We would, however, stop to prepare and eat 3 meals a day, and to set up tents and stuff for the night. During these stops, a workout could happen if one of the two staffpeople deemed it necassery.*** There were Discovery Groups at least once a day, sometimes during meals.  Now, Discovery Groups in general can get pretty sick... Let me explain. A Discovery Group consists of all the kids sitting in a circle, with at least one staffmember to lead it. The staffmember (who is not a liscensed psychologyst or therapist of any kind, by the way; there are, in fact, no lisensed therapists working at Hyde, not one) usually begins (after the "rules" are read) by singling out one specific kid and asking him/her some kind of personal question. Basically, if the kid does not respond with intense emotion or tears (even if he/she is simply being honest), then the kid is clearly doing something wrong and having a bad attitude and not opening up. And no matter how the kid responds, however he/she reacts, whatever he/she says, the discussion is then opened up to everyone else in the Disco Group who must then, essentially, tear him/her a new one. For example, a staffmember might say, "Tell me about your early childhood." Then the kid might say, "My early childhood was pretty good. I had a teddybear named...etcetc." Then the staffmemember would say, "Bullshit. You're not opening up!" Then a fellow kid would chime in with, "You have such an unproductive attitude! Why aren't you telling the truth?" And everyone around the circle would have to voice their quaint little reactions. It usually becomes this dynamic of the entire group collectively focusing on and attacking the one kid in the spotlight, who oftentimes does start crying at this point if he/she wasn't crying already. Then the staffmember moves it along to the next kid and, in outpost, this can continue on for hours, until the staffmember feels it's time to end it. The format varies. Sometimes Disco Groups are just everyone telling their "life story", with people just going around the circle telling the story of their lives thus far, with the same dynamic of when the person who's sharing is done, everyone responds to him/her. Sometimes they're focused on particular questions or a more specific theme. A good, somehwat-mild example: I remember a Disco Group during this whole canoe-thing where a girl, after being pressured insanely to "open up", started sobbing uncontrollably as she talked about her dead brother, egged on to keepkeepkeep talking about the pain of her loss, which, in the heat of all this madness, somehow inspired three other kids, including me (I had just lost my mother about four years prior) to breakdown and uncontrollably sob. Chaos ensued, and the guy who was leading it seemed pretty satisfied with this, and ended it there, with us shaking and sobbing. Sometimes it was almost like the goal of Disco Group was just to make you completely cry and lose it. They would prod and prod and prod and pressure, and delve into serious, sensitive issues without any real idea of how to properly handle said issues.

Anyway. The worst outpost I experienced was the last one I experienced: Thanksgiving Outpost. Most kids actually got to go home for Thanksgiving, but there were a select few of us with such bad attitudes that instead, we got a 2-week wilderness trip. This one consisted entirely of hiking through snowy mountains all day with bulging backpacks full of supplies, stopping only to eat, sleep and be ridiculed. I can elaborate if you'd like me to, but I'd rather not.



*Hyde's website is, of course, mostly propoganada/very good marketing; i.e. see their description of Summer Challenge, the program which I have previously mentioned that I started out in (as most kids do): "Summer Challenge is for teenagers, ages 14 - 18, who are looking for fun and challenging experiences. This summer program for teens blends thrilling outdoor experiences with a dynamic character development program in which teens have the opportunity to connect with the positive influences that will drive them toward reaching their highest potential. Participants don't have to be experts at any of the amazing challenges that will be presented to them during this five-week summer program experience; they just need to come with their best attitudes..." They do make it incredibly appealing to kids who actually want to improve themselves, and mostly to the parents of any teens, nonetheless "troubled teens", by totally misrepresenting the reality...but, I suppose, that's just what any good advertisement does.


**There were a couple days when we had to "hurtle", I think the word is? Actually carry the canoes on our backs for relatively short distances (about 2 miles). To be fair, I was convinced that I would not be able to do this, no way, and I did have a genuine feeling of pride and accomplishment after I successfully did. So that was one good experience. However, during this same experience, I remember there was one kid claiming to be injured, who really, truly looked like he was in a lot of pain. and, of course, the staff told him that he was not injured at all, but simply had a bad attitude. At this point, I remember him making some kind of comment about how, once his parents knew what all this was really like, they were going to sue. In response to this, the guy (staffmember) literally laughed in the kid's face, and I distinclty remember him saying, "You know how many people have said that? A lot. You know how many lawsuits Hyde actually has?? ZERO." Which, thanks to this board, I now know was a lie.


***In retrospect, I really hate the fact that exercise was/is used so frequently as punishment at Hyde (and apparently lots of other places). Between push-ups, 2-4 5:30s and other workouts, it definitely was. I'm extremely interested in child psychology, and there is a lot of information out there these days about what a generally horrible idea that is:
http://www.nospank.net/exercz.htm
http://www.lafamily.com/display_article.php?id=225

Even beginning Hyde teachers have proven effective in this new role.

Hyde teachers? If you could call them that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that a lot of the staffmemembers that teach at Hyde don't even have teaching degrees, and some don't have college degrees at all? Of course, he failed to mentioned that. Wouldn't an educational publication find this horrifying? I think so.

The biggest educational concern of adults today seems to be that the poor academic skills of young people are screwing up our businesses and universities. What incredible arrogance! Kids are not some herd of cattle designed for our purposes. As Kahlil Gibran so wisely wrote about children: "... [T]heir souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams.'' So help children believe in their own spirit, and they will provide the leadership for tomorrow's world.

You're right, Joe, kids are not some herd of cattle designed for your or anyone's purposes. Do you realize that Hyde is not improvement from the school system you claim to loathe so much, but in fact much worse? Much, much worse. In so many ways. Do you beleive all this shit about how wonderful Hyde is? Are you so deluded as to really think that the environment you've created is actually a healhty and positive one, an ideal one like the one you describe it as being? Do you really believe this? Are you that far gone? Or are you just an atrocious, psychopathic lying piece of shit with no regard whatsoever for actual morals? Help kids believe in their own spirit?? For fuck's sake, Hyde breaks more spirits than anything. Okay, and I love Khalil Gibran, and it really bothers me that Gauld quotes him, because it's fucking Gauld. and I think it's a bit out of context here. what the hell

100 percent of Hyde graduates are being accepted to recognized four-year colleges.

Wow...just...wow. THAT IS A BLATANT LIE, and he has the nerve to preach integrity??


 :flame:

I'm not sure that my impressions upon arrival would be particularly helpful, as I had no experience to really compare it to at the time.  I grew up solidly public school, and knew no one who went to a boarding school.  The experience was a little intimidating to me at first, and more so, actually, as time went on given what happens there.  Certainly everyone else seemed more "with it" and ingrained in the culture than I was.

I, too, had never been to a boarding school before and didn't know anyone who had. Everyone else seemed more "with it" and "ingrained in the culture" for me, too.  :-? I like the way you worded that.

The Summer session entails a great many "expeditions" into the wilderness.  Outward Bound had arrived on these shores not too many years prior, and Hyde patterned its expeditions a great deal on their model.  I actually enjoyed the forays into the woods and the ocean, as they fit right in with my personal predilection for isolation in the wilderness.  But I didn't understand many of the Staff's emphasis on "challenge," rather than "learning."  I thought that they really should be teaching us more about survival skills, as well as teaching us an appreciation of the incredible beauty of the natural wonders we came across.  Instead, there was far too much butting of heads with the "whiners" amongst us.  In retrospect, it is obvious that it was me who just didn't get it.  The confrontations were intentional for teaching us kids "character."

When I was there, they called the wilderness stuff "outpost". I went to Seguin over Summer Challenge and it was beautiful, the nature itself. I also remember enjoying that aspect of it. I don't know if Hyde had Seguin in your day? But it's a little island that's sometimes used for navy training and stuff that Hyde also uses for summer outpost (at least, they did in 2002). However, I wasn't very fond of waking before dawn and running up and down the same hill over and over again (how many times exactly depending on the groups collective "attitude") and then swimming back and forth in extremely, extremely cold (even in summer, even though the weather itself was beautiful) water (all before eating "breakfast". The rest of the typical
day there consisted mainly of two more fun-filled meals, sitting through a brutal Discovery Group, having some kind of workout and then collecting rocks.) Because to me, the message there didn't seem to be, "This is beautiful nature! And you should learn how to survive in it because it will make you stronger." (Which is what, I agree, it should have been, ideally.) Rather, the message seemed to be, "I am going to break you down."  Of course, Seguin was lovely compared to some later Hyde experiences like Thanksgiving Outpost.

Describe the intake proceedure upon arrival to Hyde.

There was nothing remarkable about the intake procedure as far as I remember. I remember my dad and me coming to the Mansion first; all the parents bringing their kids into the Mansion for registration stuff. Shortly after, my dad was gone, and I was ushered off to my dorm by a girl who was going to be a senior the following year. (A lot of seniors or "on-track" juniors are part of Summer Challenge, mostly to proctor the incoming kids.)

As I was walking with this girl, she was basically telling me how horrible her life had been before Hyde...how utterly tragic and hopeless everything would have been for her without almighty Hyde, and so on. That's something I heard a lot... "Without Hyde, I would have been a crackwhore on a streetcorner somewhere!"and claims of that nature. Yes, the reality is that most kids did come to Hyde because they had problems of some kind, but the majority of these problems seemed to be vastly exagerated; "HYDE SAVED ME, WITHOUT HYDE I WOULD BE DEAD, WITHOUT HYDE I WOULD NOTHING," seemed to be the common, encouraged, acceptable and most-respected stance on things, oftentimes for kids who had simply let their grades slip from As to Bs or Cs or fought with their parents too much or smoked pot a few times.

Anyway, so that freaked me out a little. But she was generally nice, and  she tried to answer any questions. She asked me why I was there, told me about all the drugs she used to experiment with, and then continued on about how Hyde totally saved her life and such. (At that point, I started to get an inkling of what I was getting myself into.) Then she asked me if I had anything on me that would make me "dirty", and explained that being dirty meant breaking any one of the "Ethics". I didn't. (Anything that would make a kid dirty, in the event that a kid actually did have any of this stuff on him/her, was to be immediately surrendered: cigarettes, drugs of any kind (including Tylonol and stuff), alcohol, anything that could be used for gambling, etc, even anything that implied sexuality). All in all, the process of arriving was somewhat normal, I think. A bit unnerving, but not terrible by any means. There was certainly no stripsearching or any of that other madness I've heard happens at other places, nothing like that. In a way though, I think one of the scariest aspects of Hyde is its ability to appear almost completely normal. By the time you fully realize the true nature of the place, you're in too deep to get out.