Post by: Carmel on December 13, 2002, 10:22:00 AM
Is it just me, or is this whole new hullabaloo about X really just a bit humorous? I mean, 10-12 years ago it was just as prevalent in the club scene as it is now in the rave scene....and nobody said a word about it. There was no talk about epidemics or deaths (not that they didnt occur)or any of this crap nowadays. Its like they are trying to scare the shit out of people about ex. I am not trying to justify the use of it, I myself cant handle that kind of high long since anymore, but it just seems like all of a sudden its all splashed all over the media like its the new heroin or something.
Also, if I recall correctly ex was NOT physically addictive. There is no such thing as ex withdrawls or simialr nonsense. If you are taking a hit of ex every single day, thats a personal choice, albeit an idiotic one. Its not because your body becomes dependednt on it. Thats ludicrous.
I guess I was just noticing really how much the DFAF and simialar organizations focus on the substance, and not the root cause of the substance abuse. I suppose it has always been that way, it just galls me to see them taking up a new flag for this drug that has been around forever, and now all of a sudden is Satan incarnate. Maybe because they are losing their grip on the fight about MJ? Time to take up a new cause with twisted statistics and health information?
Demonizing the substance is an easy way to releive themselves of responsibility, while pretending to be saviours. "Your kids are on drugs, they need intervention" well, what about stable homelife, non-abusive, non-neglectful parents, an environment free form sexual abuse. What about all of that? Oh no, they dont deal in real issues, its the kids fault, the kids problem.......
These people are the snake oil salesman of our generation.
Post by: Froderik on December 13, 2002, 10:42:00 AM
it just seems like all of a sudden its all splashed all over the media like its the new heroin or something."
- Yeah, seems like whenever the media gets on a topic they milk it to DEATH, LOL...why do you think we were treated to 5000 hours of the goddam OJ trial?!!
"Also, if I recall correctly ex was NOT physically addictive. There is no such thing as ex withdrawls or simialr nonsense..."
- Although a potentially dangerous drug, probably NOT addictive...
"Time to take up a new cause with twisted statistics and health information?"
- Makes sense...
"Demonizing the substance is an easy way to releive themselves of responsibility, while pretending to be saviours. "Your kids are on drugs, they need intervention" well, what about stable homelife, non-abusive, non-neglectful parents, an environment free form sexual abuse. What about all of that? Oh no, they dont deal in real issues, its the kids fault, the kids problem..."
- EXACTLY!
"These people are the snake oil salesman of our generation."
- Very humorous, and so true!>>>>>FR13
Post by: Anonymous on December 13, 2002, 12:00:00 PM
I was watchin the TV the other nigh and saw another ANTI-Drug public service announcement. This one had two guys arguing over the amount of money that goes to terrorists when drugs are bought. The problem with this is, that MOST drugs that are out there are produced right here in the good old USA. Unless the guys around town that are making crystal meth, X, or growin weed, etc, are actually terrorists in disguise, which under the USA PATRIOT ACT that just might be found that way, it's all crap.
Every day the lies get thicker and the shit gets deeper. I believe that we have them running scared and they are rapidly running out of variations to their putrid smelling , dead themes.
Post by: Carmel on December 13, 2002, 03:32:00 PM
I cant help but giggle at this list of things to look out for...
Child-like costumes such as angel wings, glow sticks, glowing jewelry, children's backpack, teddy bears/children's toys, pacifiers
Signs of excessive water consumption at unusual times, such as bringing multiple water bottles to parties/raves or having an unusually large amount of empty water bottles in his or her bedroom or car.
I mean, do some parents actually walk into a kids room with an empty water bottle and say "honey, we should talk, are you on drugs?" Can you imagine, and thats exactly the kind of paranoia that this creates. We are going to have parents putiing their kids in treatment for having teddy bears and water bottles.
Post by: Froderik on December 13, 2002, 05:56:00 PM
On 2002-12-13 12:32:00, Carmel wrote: "That stupid DFAF site has a listing of warning signs and symptoms of ecstasy use. I cant help but giggle at this list of things to look out for... Child-like costumes such as angel wings, glow sticks, glowing jewelry, children's backpack, teddy bears/children's toys, pacifiers... We are going to have parents putting their kids in treatment for having teddy bears and water bottles." |
Yeah, it's pretty damn absurd - but then so is the whole idea of putting kids in that kind of 'treatment' for smoking MJ or FOR ANYTHING!!
[ This Message was edited by: AlexL on 2002-12-13 15:00 ]
Post by: kosmonaut on December 13, 2002, 08:04:00 PM
:rofl:
Seriously though, I agree the hype is ridiculous. In its pure form it can be a wonderful drug when used at the correct dosage, in a safe setting.
Post by: kpickle39 on December 13, 2002, 09:41:00 PM
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins; all of them imaginary.
H.L. Mencken, 1923
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2002, 01:12:00 AM
:question:
:skull:
Post by: dreammagician on December 14, 2002, 08:54:00 AM
Post by: Antigen on December 14, 2002, 01:21:00 PM
| On 2002-12-14 05:54:00, dreammagician wrote: If they got a little more coke this week rather than heroin it goes in. You never know what your gonna get when you do the stuff. Personally x sucks and does kill people because it is a mix of all deadly drugs and if the person who is doing the batch fucks up or gets greedy we all die or go in convusions, who needs that. hehe |
We had the same problem with wood alcohol finding its way into whiskey during alcohol prohibition. They called it "bathtub gin". There's a simple solution that's tried and true.
What is a committee? A group of the unwilling, picked from the unfit, to do the unnecessary.
-- Richard Harkness, The New York Times, 1960
Post by: Antigen on December 14, 2002, 01:27:00 PM
Oh dear! I'm in big, big trouble! I always have at least half a dozen empty water bottles in the kitchen cabinet, right next to the jewelweed tincture. Not that I'm on X or anything. Just that I think it's patently insane to pay a buck or more for a bottle of water, so I save them to refill.
Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.
--Anonymous
Post by: Shelby on December 14, 2002, 03:26:00 PM
"Child-like costumes such as angel wings, glow sticks, glowing jewelry, children's backpack, teddy bears/children's toys, pacifiers"
[ This Message was edited by: Shelby on 2002-12-14 12:27 ]
Post by: Anonymous on December 14, 2002, 05:17:00 PM
Post by: kaydeejaded on December 14, 2002, 05:28:00 PM
What kind of humanism expresses its reluctance to sacrifice military casualties by devastating the civilian economy of its adversary for decades to come?
Henry Kissinger
Post by: Tampa survivor on December 15, 2002, 03:19:00 AM
Those parents should be scared if thier angel is using it. Very bad hyperthermia is associated with its use, hallucinagenic amphetamines like MDMA are powerfull mind benders when pure and properly dosed. As others noted, usually neither of the above are the case.
Come hang out at Tampa General or St Joes hospital here on a weekend when the Ybor city partiers start to crash. Some real wastes happen.
Doesnt give the warriors the right to blow it out of propoertion.
Bill
Post by: Anonymous on December 15, 2002, 12:40:00 PM
On 2002-12-15 00:19:00, Tampa survivor wrote: "Come hang out at Tampa General or St Joes hospital here on a weekend when the Ybor city partiers start to crash. Some real wastes happen." |
Bill,
With that said, I would like you ask you, how many youths are there on average over the weekend that show up at the ER? How do they get there, are they brought by ambulance?
Also, with the kids showing up in the ER, how many more females are there as opposed to males? I curious to know so as to speculate whether there may be a possibility that there are more overdoses in females because of the "date rape" techniques, where they are being drugged without their knowledge? I could see where it would be easy for that to happen, as a young lady would take a pill only to wind up drinking water tainted by an unscrupulous individuals.
I look forward to hearing you response on these, as I would much rather trust your unofficial judgment then skewed guberment statics.
I agree that there are too many "wana be" chemists out there that are making dangerous drugs, but properly manufactured ecstasy is actual safe, and can even be therapeutic from a psychiatric standpoint.
Even with the facts that they (drug warriors) state, why do they oppose those groups that setup shop at raves and do minor testing on the scrapings of these pill in order to help kids from being poisoned. Granted it is not perfect and can not check the potency of these pills, but since there is no real regulation, why not do the best we can to help keep our kids (who will take X if they choose, like it or not) as safe as we can?
Some drugs are good, and some are bad,
but weed is the best drug I've ever had.
Smoke a big fatty and it clears my head,
or helps me sleep when I go to bed.
The best buds help me write the most awesome code,
I'll still be smoking weed when I'm 100 years old :smokin:
_________________
This is your Brain
, and this is your Brain on coerced treatment
Some Days It's Just Not Worth
Chewing Through The Leather Straps
[ This Message was edited by: SysAdmin on 2002-12-15 09:44 ]
Post by: Hamiltonf on December 15, 2002, 06:51:00 PM
I personally might take E some day, in very controlled circumstances. Both of my kids (now in their 20s) have experimented with E, but ONLY after educating themselves very thoroughly about it, and all the others -- and having it tested. It is always best to use it VERY sparingly, and they report positive results if so used.
Erowid.org is a good source of information, as is a book Ecstacy-- a user's guide. Also psychologist Alexander Shulgin are allsources of accurate information.
The biggest danger of taking this recreational drug is if you don't look after yourself and either get dehydrated and suffer heatstroke and die, or, at the other end of the spectrum, to counter heatstroke,you drink too much water and lose electrolytes which will cause the brain to swell and you will die.
It is also wise to have the drug tested. see dancesafe.org.
The biggest threat to your life comes from the US Senate, and their "Ecsacy Anti proliferation Act" This, in itself is probably doing an incredibly greater amount of damage to people who get caught than the extremely rare deaths. Viagra which is made specifically for "approved" recreational purposes by pharmaceutical companies with great lobbying power, has in its short life caused more deaths than Ecstacy, which has been around since the 1920's. Mind you, it's really not wise to mix viagra with E. That can kill you too, but some people do it. I guess if at a young age you cannot get a hard-on, you really should talk to a doctor.
Take care.
Post by: Tampa survivor on December 15, 2002, 10:56:00 PM
The conked heads in halo traction 20 year olds who got in a fight, the cracked up cars and loveley brain bounces, every night.
Straight ODs go to psych, after a nice stay in ICU if bad.
We did have a run of PMA laced X which was dropping 3-10 kids a night into the ER with 106 temps and all the joy. Lost a few too. The stuff hit orlando too. Girls and guys Equal on X from what I see. Priveliged,pretty white kids. I guess hip hop and x don't mix.
Smoke weed kids. If you must do something that is. Alcohol creates the most sublime stupidity in humans. Have you ever seen an orthopedic surgeons bill? OUCH.
I will see what the OD djour is these days from my buds and get back.
Bill
Post by: Hamiltonf on December 15, 2002, 11:58:00 PM
Your work on ER is not educating you about the drugs because you have no context to put it in. And perhaps, if the DEA and NIDA stopped treating marijuana the same as heroin, maybe young people would listen to them. But scare tactics and DARE (remember the Sembler's role in DARE) don't work.
Read the "Less is more" post again. Also, locate and read the book "Synthetic Panics" by Professor Jenkins from Penn State University.
Remember, the Straights were a product of a moral panic. It's in the US that moral panics have reached a new high. Probably the role of a largely uncritical media and Christian fundamentalist churches with a strong basis in the south. Those southern baptist ministers have a lot to answer for (Ever hear the song about the Reverend Dr. Lee by Roberta Flack) Just laden with good old Christian Guilt -- and oh, my god, those negras and their sex, you know. Reefer madness. Black guys having sex with all those white girls. Isn't that what E is all about? SEX. Isn't that inherent racism that drove so many white folks to put their kids into the hands of the Semblers, because they feared the depravity to which drugs would take them?
Post by: Antigen on December 15, 2002, 11:59:00 PM
| On 2002-12-15 15:51:00, Hamiltonf wrote: "I am an oldie that keeps visiting this site as a matter of interest. (I'm 62) |
Ok, I'm going to break with my usual habit of stiffling my curiosity over personal info. I thought I'd had enough of other people's business to last me a lifetime. But now I'm piqued.
If you don't mind saying, what is your interest in these forums?
| On 2002-12-15 15:51:00, Hamiltonf I personally might take E some day, in very controlled circumstances. Both of my kids (now in their 20s) have experimented with E, but ONLY after educating themselves very thoroughly about it, and all the others -- and having it tested. It is always best to use it VERY sparingly, and they report positive results if so used. |
I'm thinking along the same lines. I think I could benefit from the experience. If ever I could be dispensible for a time and also sure that the drug was pure and of known dose, I'd love to try it. Pulling all that together while raising young kids, though... well, it just hasn't happened and probably won't till my youngest is a bit older.
It really puzzles me to see Marijuana connected with Narcotics - Dope and all that crap?it's a thousand times better than whiskey - it's an Assistant - a friend.
Louis Armstrong
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2002, 12:28:00 AM
| On 2002-12-15 20:58:00, Hamiltonf wrote: "Your work on ER is not educating you about the drugs because you have no context to put it in." |
Actually I think that it does, with respect to that is not about the drug it self but the consequences that follow from it's consumption, giving him a unique look at how many problems that are occurring from the major problem with ecstasy; Quality Control. Properly dosed it is not harmful, so if there are people showing up in the ER it is either from taking too much or taking shit that is cut with some bad stuff, or worse yet taking something that is not what they though it was at all. And while these problems may be caused by the fact that it is illegal, makes the statics even more important in the fight for legalization/regulation.
I believe whole heartedly that ALL drugs should be legalized and some/most should be regulated, but that does not mean that one should deny the facts that a lot of these drugs can be harmful or addictive.
Post by: Hamiltonf on December 16, 2002, 12:40:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2002, 12:55:00 AM
"We (the US) are despised around the world" and
"We will be doing Al Quaida's work for them if we attack Iraq"
How does this relate to the War on drugs?
Well, With Canada's hints at ending Marijuana prohibition, John Walters is running around threatening Canada with border sanctions. Simultaneously, the US Ambassador to Canada is telling Canada that it is not sensitive enough to US needs and should strengthen it's military.
Even on this forum, I have heard it expressed that the US has "protected Canada". I would like to ask, "from what?" If Canada needs protection, it seems to me it is from the US and it's insane drug war. The drug war is just one of many factors that has led the US to be despised around the world --- including Canada --- and Canada should stay out of fighting US wars for it.
Yours truly
A Canadian Raver.
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2002, 01:14:00 AM
I do have a question for you though, When you said: "at the other end of the spectrum, to counter heatstroke,you drink too much water and lose electrolytes which will cause the brain to swell and you will die."
I wasn't aware that one could consume quite that much water. Since a gallon a day is the recomended amount, exactly where is the threshold? I may be making an assumption here, but you wouldn't need to be on any drugs in order to cause this problem. I would be interested in knowing more about it. You wouldn't happen to have a handy pointer to such subject matter would you? I'm just curious.
Post by: Hamiltonf on December 16, 2002, 01:24:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on December 16, 2002, 01:40:00 AM
If you have not had the opportunity to check out Antigens earlier post in the "Open Free For All" forum about Dan Burton check it out: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... ort=D#7506 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=1478&forum=22&Sort=D#7506)
Post by: FaceKhan on December 16, 2002, 01:40:00 AM
Definitely erowid is the shiznit. I was reading up on that site and just before my friends were about to do something stupid that would have resulted in lot of vomiting, I found something on erowid related to it that prevented their stupidity. Ok well it delayed it. :smile:
_________________
[ This Message was edited by: FaceKhan on 2002-12-15 22:43 ]
Post by: dreammagician on December 16, 2002, 03:08:00 AM
Post by: Shelby on December 16, 2002, 09:21:00 AM
"Drinking large amounts of water can strain the kidneys, causing excess loss of the mineral salts, sodium and potassium," Dr. Alpern explains. "This can lead to hypoatraemia, or water intoxification, a potentially fatal condition where the blood becomes over-diluted and the cells begin to swell."
Shelby
Post by: Tampa survivor on December 16, 2002, 10:05:00 AM
Do you have some conection to the straights?
Just curious too.
Sparing you guys the finer points of hyponatremia, yall are right. Too much water= bad. Add street shit with whoodafuck knows whats in it= REAL BAD
Philisopical opposition to the ban on certain drugs can clash with reality when you see an intubated 15 year old with cheerleaders and football players crying outside the room wishing their friend would wake up.
Bill
Post by: Hamiltonf on December 17, 2002, 12:33:00 AM
| On 2002-12-16 07:05:00, Tampa survivor wrote: "Hamilton> read my past posts. I think you can easily see where I stand on many things. Do you have some conection to the straights? Just curious too. |
No, I have no connection, except that my son pointed out this forum some considerable time ago, and I recently rediscovered it when following up on referrals to AARC.
| Sparing you guys the finer points of hyponatremia, yall are right. Too much water= bad. |
Actually, read about the water intoxication thing on some site like Erowid. Confirmed by my daughter who is a harm-reduction activist and is working towards doing graduate work in pharmacology. She has read and is able to critique, scientifically every research paper that seems to be available to date on ecstacy and has written papers for her undergraduate courses on the subject.
| Add street shit with whoodafuck knows whats in it= REAL BAD Philisopical opposition to the ban on certain drugs can clash with reality when you see an intubated 15 year old with cheerleaders and football players crying outside the room wishing their friend would wake up. |
On the other hand, this should lend strength to the argument as to why the drug war is failing, namely that scare tactics and lies don't work. When you have a Drug Czar running around telling you that pot is so dangerous and everyone knows it isn't, people just stop listening. Sure kids will experiment, but at that age, they are just beginning to realise they've been lied to.
You have to get away from the assumption that all drug use is abuse, and I'm afraid there is a long way to go before the US is going to get away from that moralistic viewpoint.
Walk softly, and carry a big stick
Post by: Anonymous on December 17, 2002, 12:57:00 AM
On 2002-12-16 21:33:00, Hamiltonf wrote:
On the other hand, this should lend strength to the argument as to why the drug war is failing, namely that scare tactics and lies don't work. When you have a Drug Czar running around telling you that pot is so dangerous and everyone knows it isn't, people just stop listening. Sure kids will experiment, but at that age, they are just beginning to realise they've been lied to. You have to get away from the assumption that all drug use is abuse, and I'm afraid there is a long way to go before the US is going to get away from that moralistic viewpoint. Walk softly, and carry a big stick" |
Also, the whothefuckknows factor dissapears in a legal, regulated market.
Post by: Tampa survivor on December 17, 2002, 09:01:00 AM
I see it like cocaine: It is NOT good for people. It is harmfull. No denial of these facts.
I like weed. It has lots of things we can call benefits. But facts are, it is bad for the lungs. Undeniable.
If drugs are legal (cheap and pure) it simply means that the crackhead won't be driving crime up in my neighborhood to get $$ to get drug.
Overall...if ya wanna fry your noodles on anything at all, go ahead. Just don't let your freedom to do so interfere with my freedom to know better.
BTW, I have been a legalize it freedom lover for longer than most. We are making the drug suppliers rich on the backs of simple folk's habits.
Bill
Post by: Antigen on December 17, 2002, 11:33:00 AM
Everything in this world is dangerous. Sky diving is dangerous. So is skiing and mountain climbing and horseback riding, extreme sports, football, racing... and the list goes on.
I know that our bodies were made to thrive only in pure air, and the scenes in which pure air is found.
-- John Muir
Post by: ClayL on December 19, 2002, 08:53:00 AM
Post by: Tampa survivor on December 19, 2002, 11:24:00 PM
10 years of higher mj busts/convictions than ever before.
More death sentences.
More federal encroachment on states rights through burgeoning federal agencies.
Remember the clipper chip?
How about Clintons attack on habeus corpus?
Yeah, democrats are way better than republicans.
They are both shit.
Bill
PS Lott should hide his face and go back to Missisipi and be a lobbyist.
Post by: kosmonaut on December 20, 2002, 03:07:00 PM
On 2002-12-19 20:24:00, Tampa survivor wrote: PS Lott should hide his face and go back to Missisipi and be a lobbyist." |
As of today he will be doing just that. He is officially resigning, or so I heard on the news this morning.
:wave:
That's one less strange hairdo in D.C. :silly:
[ This Message was edited by: kosmonaut on 2002-12-20 12:07 ]