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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Antigen on July 07, 2005, 12:37:00 PM

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Antigen on July 07, 2005, 12:37:00 PM
Welcome

Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground.
--Anonymous

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Anonymous on July 07, 2005, 01:35:00 PM
Three Springs Waygookin,

Thanks for your post!  Your pointers need a tread of their own.  Hope you don't mind me starting one.

Quote
1) Programs are no substitute for parenting skills.

2) GO visit the Program unnannounced.

3) Here are a list of things I would look for myself:

1) Appearance of Facility. Do you want your child in a hobo village?

2) Quality of food. The food at Three Springs was not even fit for farm animals.

3) Overall Appearance of Residents. Does it look like their physical needs are being taken care of? Do they have clean, and maintained clothing? Does it look like their medical needs are being attended to in a proper manner? Some facilites are so understaffed this can be a real issue. Make sure at the very minimum the program has an onsite nurse. Even then some nurses are incompetent buffons. Look the kids over carefully, see if you can detect a perponderance of minor medical issues that do not appear to be attended to properly.

4) Require to see documentation about the number of physical restraints conducted monthly at the facility. If that number is higher than 2 or 3 for a program of 60, then start demanding answers. Is it all one kid? If it is whats being done? Is it a bunch of kids? Whats being done? If you do not like the answers, then LEAVE!

5) Look over the theraputic enviroment of the facility. As a counselor I had no problem making my kids work when they were acting silly. However, I do regret making them do pointless work as a consquence. Group Process is not a bad thing when conducted properly. If a group is acting poorly and they are suffering from their own lack of good behaviors, then they are feeling natural consquences. Now if the staff is imposing consquences, then ask how are they LOGICAL? How does it connect the poor behaviors, with the consquence? How does the consquence help the kid move onward in the program, and in life?

6) Last DO NOT TRUST EDUCATIONAL CONSULTANTS with the future of your child. They are money grubbing leaches who we used to jazz the place up for on a regular basis. The Three Springs head honchos used to love my campsite, because I was so adamant about it being clean. Programs will bend over backwards to kiss a EC's butt. GO visit the place yourself!!!

7) Alot of kids have issues that can not really be fully dealt with by the individual groups treatment models. Check to see if they have more specific treatment opprotunities availiable. Honestly, would you expect a kid who was molested to want to talk about it with a group of his peers? Is not going to happen. Not in the beginning anyway, so make sure that the facilites have the resources to help your kid deal with these issues.


Last thing long term residential programs are a serious step. Not one is needed for every kid. Sometimes kids just really do need parents.

PARENTS CHECK YOURSELVES OUT BEFORE YOU CHECK YOUR KID INTO SOME WILDERNESS, OR RESIDENTIAL HELL HOLE. YOU REALLY MIGHT BE THE PROBLEM AND NOT THE KID!
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: BuzzKill on July 07, 2005, 10:56:00 PM
//I have other thoughts to post on them as well.//

And I hope you'll post them.
IMO - this is what we need a lot more of - Ex-Staff willing to speak up and speak out.

I am so glad you took the time and effort to post your thoughts.
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Couture on July 08, 2005, 03:21:00 PM
Hey.....  Three springs caught my eye.  I graduated from Auldern Academy.  Did you have any contact with the people there?
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Anonymous on July 08, 2005, 06:40:00 PM
That was a chilling read, thanks for writing it out.
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Anonymous on July 11, 2005, 03:15:00 PM
What is really telling about this story is the fact the employees are educated, semmingly normal people.

I have  a few questions if you dont mind:

I'm curious did you know about these programs before you got a job there?

What was your general impression of the parents who sent their kids there from you personal interaction?

In your opinion, did you ever get the chance to actually 'help' any teenagers, overcoming problems or something else?

Did you form close relationships with the kids?

Have any kids contacted you since they have become adults and left the programs?

Are you shocked at how common restraints are when you first arrive? Do you get used to this?

thanks
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: taylor on August 16, 2005, 05:34:00 PM
Were you a counselor at three springs?
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: taylor on August 16, 2005, 05:37:00 PM
Can any x-three spring employees get in touch with me?
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Anonymous on September 29, 2005, 05:28:00 PM
Do you know anything good or bad about Auldern Academy.  I need a good, very structured girls boarding school for my daughter, I need a place that she will succeed and be monitored and her have good wholesome fur while meeting some self esteem issues and being encouraged to excellence.  Help :smile:  :smile:  :smile:Lacey
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 01, 2005, 10:00:00 AM
Quote
Do you know anything good or bad about Auldern Academy. I need a good, very structured girls boarding school for my daughter, I need a place that she will succeed and be monitored and her have good wholesome fur while meeting some self esteem issues and being encouraged to excellence. Help   Lacey


Here's two pieces of advice...
1. please dont jack a thread asking for advice for you when this is about Three Springs. Or, for that matter... threadjack at all. Its trollish.

2. Before you say you need a program in some form, why not start off with:
a. the problems she has, and proof of those problems (not program rhetoric or bullshit non-issues such as the wrong crowd or 'talking back', being 'unmotivatd', etc)
b. what youve done to help
c. why you need a program, and how it could possibly help.

If you want help with her self esteem, why not take her to get a makeover and some icecream? BTW, the words structured, succeed, monitored, wholesome, self esteem, issues, encouraged, and excellence reek of brochures and vague, generalized bullshit.

Everyone wants that for all their kids, blah blah blah. If she doesnt have an actual problem, she belongs at home, unless youre trying to abdicate parental responsibility.

Oh and you might want to keep in mind Ive yet to see a program that didnt use coersion, humiliation, LGA seminars, physical brutality or corporal punishment in some form or another (generally called 'restraint) that wasnt simply a mislabeled SCHOOL, and only a school, and that bootcamps, programs, et all that rely on those methods don't work! The NIMH has found the recidivism is not reduced.

It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion.

--Joseph Goebbels

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2005, 08:25:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-10-01 07:00:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"
Quote
Do you know anything good or bad about Auldern Academy. I need a good, very structured girls boarding school for my daughter, I need a place that she will succeed and be monitored and her have good wholesome fur while meeting some self esteem issues and being encouraged to excellence. Help   Lacey



Here's two pieces of advice...

1. please dont jack a thread asking for advice for you when this is about Three Springs. Or, for that matter... threadjack at all. Its trollish.



2. Before you say you need a program in some form, why not start off with:

a. the problems she has, and proof of those problems (not program rhetoric or bullshit non-issues such as the wrong crowd or 'talking back', being 'unmotivatd', etc)

b. what youve done to help

c. why you need a program, and how it could possibly help.



If you want help with her self esteem, why not take her to get a makeover and some icecream? BTW, the words structured, succeed, monitored, wholesome, self esteem, issues, encouraged, and excellence reek of brochures and vague, generalized bullshit.



Everyone wants that for all their kids, blah blah blah. If she doesnt have an actual problem, she belongs at home, unless youre trying to abdicate parental responsibility.



Oh and you might want to keep in mind Ive yet to see a program that didnt use coersion, humiliation, LGA seminars, physical brutality or corporal punishment in some form or another (generally called 'restraint) that wasnt simply a mislabeled SCHOOL, and only a school, and that bootcamps, programs, et all that rely on those methods don't work! The NIMH has found the recidivism is not reduced.

It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion.

--Joseph Goebbels

"


So that's your solution to low self-esteem?  Take her for a makeover and an ice cream?!?!?!?!

Of course, there appears to be more "show" than actually knowledge in what you say. Seems you have impressed some with 'fluff'......but how much experience do you really have with ANY program? When you say, "you have yet to see a program", does that mean anything you have read on the internet that agrees with what you want to believe, ignoring anything else and discounting anyone with a differing opinion?

I certainly hope that a poster with a child suffering for low self-esteem doesn't take your advice for a makeover and ice cream.  I hope they get the child therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child. What's your advice for a depressed child - take them to see a funny movie?
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2005, 08:33:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-09-29 14:28:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Do you know anything good or bad about Auldern Academy.  I need a good, very structured girls boarding school for my daughter, I need a place that she will succeed and be monitored and her have good wholesome fur while meeting some self esteem issues and being encouraged to excellence.  Help :smile:  :smile:  :smile:Lacey "


If you want to improve your daughter's self esteem, do not send her to a program. Most programs use a highly confrontational approach in order to break down the child, and re-mold them into an obedient little zombie.

Many of these programs pretend to do the exact opposite. Program salespeople will often tell you all kinds of tales about "empowering", "motivating", etc. etc. Don't fall for that. If you want your daughter to have any kind of self esteem, keep her out of the programs.
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2005, 08:40:00 AM
Nihil- go take your meds and stop spewing bullshit.
To the person inquiring about Auldern- this is not the place for accurate information.  This is the place for you to be blasted by pyscho-zealots for even considering doing something for your child.
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Helena Handbasket on October 02, 2005, 09:07:00 AM
Quote



So that's your solution to low self-esteem?  Take her for a makeover and an ice cream?!?!?!?!



I think a huge point sailed right over your head. In this scenario of a girl-child with low self esteem - the kid gives a clue to the parent that she feels like she might be ugly, and the parent takes the reigns and involves themselves in that kids life in something directly aimed at the "I think I'm ugly" problem.  

Of course, if she felt fat, you'd probably pass by the ice cream shoppe, and head for a salad bar, while chit-chatting about how to make low fat and low calorie less boring.

I think Niles was describing the first step in parental involvement.  Of course there's more to it than a makeover and ice cream.  But living a normal life while working these things out like normal people builds self esteem from within, not in some artifically crafted emo-dome.

Possibly the worst thing for this type of kid is to isolate them from the rest of the world, while they're worked over by a peer group whose very nature is to wear down self esteem, and rebuild in it the image OF The Program, which is generally incongruent with normal society.

What happens to the thin veneer of self esteem then?

 
Quote

I certainly hope that a poster with a child suffering for low self-esteem doesn't take your advice for a makeover and ice cream.  I hope they get the child therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child. What's your advice for a depressed child - take them to see a funny movie?


Why is it that the first thing you want to do is make a generic teen malady into psychiatric emergency?  EVERY TEEN AT SOME POINT Goes through self esteem problems, depression, anger, generalized pissiness.

What's your advice to a kid with zits?  Plastic Surgery?
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2005, 10:01:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-10-02 06:07:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:

"
Quote





So that's your solution to low self-esteem?  Take her for a makeover and an ice cream?!?!?!?!







I think a huge point sailed right over your head. In this scenario of a girl-child with low self esteem - the kid gives a clue to the parent that she feels like she might be ugly, and the parent takes the reigns and involves themselves in that kids life in something directly aimed at the "I think I'm ugly" problem.  



Of course, if she felt fat, you'd probably pass by the ice cream shoppe, and head for a salad bar, while chit-chatting about how to make low fat and low calorie less boring.



I think Niles was describing the first step in parental involvement.  Of course there's more to it than a makeover and ice cream.  But living a normal life while working these things out like normal people builds self esteem from within, not in some artifically crafted emo-dome.



Possibly the worst thing for this type of kid is to isolate them from the rest of the world, while they're worked over by a peer group whose very nature is to wear down self esteem, and rebuild in it the image OF The Program, which is generally incongruent with normal society.



What happens to the thin veneer of self esteem then?



 
Quote


I certainly hope that a poster with a child suffering for low self-esteem doesn't take your advice for a makeover and ice cream.  I hope they get the child therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child. What's your advice for a depressed child - take them to see a funny movie?




Why is it that the first thing you want to do is make a generic teen malady into psychiatric emergency?  EVERY TEEN AT SOME POINT Goes through self esteem problems, depression, anger, generalized pissiness.



What's your advice to a kid with zits?  Plastic Surgery?"


You certainly seemed to have read more into the simpleton advice that was there.  So I assume you think the "makeover and ice cream" is fantastic advice??  Oh wait, you are going to act as interpreter and tell us what Niles REALLY meant to say.

Gee - ever stop and think when you take a child who thinks they are ugly to get a "makeover", you are confirming in their mind that you think they ARE ugly and need a makeover???  Ever think that going to the salad bar with a kid that thinks they are fat may be reenforcing that thought?  Ever think that if the kid IS fat, it may (or may not be) a symptom of something else, and not just a love of Oreos?

And how did you make the flying leap to isolating the kid?  or a psychiatric emergency? I never came CLOSE to saying anything like that. I believe if you READ my post, you will see I said "therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child"."  

Amazing how you can twist Niles' words into something that sounds a little more reasonable (at least on the surfact), but take mine and twist them into something outlandish.
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 02, 2005, 10:34:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-10-02 05:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-01 07:00:00, Nihilanthic wrote:


"
Quote
Do you know anything good or bad about Auldern Academy. I need a good, very structured girls boarding school for my daughter, I need a place that she will succeed and be monitored and her have good wholesome fur while meeting some self esteem issues and being encouraged to excellence. Help   Lacey





Here's two pieces of advice...


1. please dont jack a thread asking for advice for you when this is about Three Springs. Or, for that matter... threadjack at all. Its trollish.





2. Before you say you need a program in some form, why not start off with:


a. the problems she has, and proof of those problems (not program rhetoric or bullshit non-issues such as the wrong crowd or 'talking back', being 'unmotivatd', etc)


b. what youve done to help


c. why you need a program, and how it could possibly help.





If you want help with her self esteem, why not take her to get a makeover and some icecream? BTW, the words structured, succeed, monitored, wholesome, self esteem, issues, encouraged, and excellence reek of brochures and vague, generalized bullshit.





Everyone wants that for all their kids, blah blah blah. If she doesnt have an actual problem, she belongs at home, unless youre trying to abdicate parental responsibility.





Oh and you might want to keep in mind Ive yet to see a program that didnt use coersion, humiliation, LGA seminars, physical brutality or corporal punishment in some form or another (generally called 'restraint) that wasnt simply a mislabeled SCHOOL, and only a school, and that bootcamps, programs, et all that rely on those methods don't work! The NIMH has found the recidivism is not reduced.

It is the absolute right of the state to supervise the formation of public opinion.


--Joseph Goebbels

"




So that's your solution to low self-esteem?  Take her for a makeover and an ice cream?!?!?!?!



Of course, there appears to be more "show" than actually knowledge in what you say. Seems you have impressed some with 'fluff'......but how much experience do you really have with ANY program? When you say, "you have yet to see a program", does that mean anything you have read on the internet that agrees with what you want to believe, ignoring anything else and discounting anyone with a differing opinion?



I certainly hope that a poster with a child suffering for low self-esteem doesn't take your advice for a makeover and ice cream.  I hope they get the child therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child. What's your advice for a depressed child - take them to see a funny movie?



"

Something you seem to have a hard time understanding is that yeah, giving a child attention, treats, helping with their self-image, you know, things MOMMIES ARE SUPPOSED TO DO FOR THEIR DAUGHTERS... would probably go a LONG way if the child was feeling depressed. Oh, and *gasp* she might start talking to the mom! Wow. Just imagine, a little milkfat, a lot less money, some time and effort instead of kidnappers and wow, you can personally help the kid out.

Im not gonna re-iterate everything that Sara (Mrs handbasket) has said because it would be a waste of time, but I will say this:

Being locked up, isolated from the world and your parents, being unable to socialize and grow and develop except within the guidelines of the program and the 'structure' of it, and within BS rules, does not help you get self esteem, or grow, or mature, bla bla bla. Being out and doing things on your own, but with help from parents, loved ones, and friends, DOES. Since WHEN Does incarceration help with self esteem? Since when do programs churn out children who wear blank smiles and say "self esteem" all the time?

Oh, and yeah, taking a depressed child WOULD help. Why? Youre givin the child an escape, a chance to bond with you, and youre spending time with them. Feeling like youre loved and liked helps a lot with depression, OH MY GOD WHAT A REVELATION!!!

Quote
Nihil- go take your meds and stop spewing bullshit.
To the person inquiring about Auldern- this is not the place for accurate information. This is the place for you to be blasted by pyscho-zealots for even considering doing something for your child.


I dont need meds, I dont take meds. I dont like drugs, m'kay? I *WAS* Misdiagnosed and given prozac as a child, but it was not only unnecessary but a detrement to me. It totally killed my emotions.

When I turned 15, wanted the spice back in my life (you know, as opposed to living as a zombie in a grey world) and flushed that shit down the toilet and turned around and took it to the people who made my life hell, and thus made me feel bad - and chewed out some school administrators who let this shit happen to me in the first place, guess what?

I feelt a LOT Better! It was GENUINE happiness. I didnt get 'self-esteem' from a damned seminar or from being obedient and not complaining when told what to do and made to do it (like you seem to think you must, well, and/or with drugs).

So please, DRUGGIE, dont push your fucking pills on me or any other child or teen or adult in this already over-medicated and under-loved nation, okay?

And, to conclude, wanna know wahts REALLY funny?

You crawl up my ass for not having visited a program and telling people to be wary of them and the bullshit that is now KNOWN that they do, but you want a parent to send their child, and money, to a program they never visisted either?

HELLO? EARTH TO BAGHEAD  :wave:

Im saying check it out, dont fall for the bullshit, and Ive yet to see a 'program' that did anything but engender submission, conformity, and do it via bullshit Large-group awareness training (called a workshop, seminar, propheet, rap, etc.) or simply by dominating the child and forcing them to behave within their guidelines.

All that 'structure' doesn't do anything but make the child grin and bear it and do as told. That makes it easier for a parent but doesnt do jack shit for the child. Giving the child a thicker skin by taking away pleasure and freedom does... WHAT to help address the self-esteem issue? Or depression? WHAT? Yeah people who survive bullshit get a thick skin, zippadedodah. But people can do fine without real (or artifical, program-derived) hardship and still be good people. And I can say its BAD to make them cover up and hide their shit because they have to act happy and 'work the program' to get out.

Oh well, we shoudl all do as you say, right? Pop pills for everything and throw your children away into programs we've never seen while telling others not to tell us to be wary of something they havent personally seen even though the whole industry operates the same way.  :roll:

The problem with the "teen help" industry is that it's a bad "solution" in search of a problem.

Julie C.

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 02, 2005, 10:43:00 AM
Being a smart ass can be indicative of O.D.D. and anger management issues, someone better take Waygookin for an intake.

I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure.

--Clarence Darrow

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Troll Control on October 02, 2005, 10:47:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-10-02 07:01:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-02 06:07:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:


"
Quote







So that's your solution to low self-esteem?  Take her for a makeover and an ice cream?!?!?!?!











I think a huge point sailed right over your head. In this scenario of a girl-child with low self esteem - the kid gives a clue to the parent that she feels like she might be ugly, and the parent takes the reigns and involves themselves in that kids life in something directly aimed at the "I think I'm ugly" problem.  





Of course, if she felt fat, you'd probably pass by the ice cream shoppe, and head for a salad bar, while chit-chatting about how to make low fat and low calorie less boring.





I think Niles was describing the first step in parental involvement.  Of course there's more to it than a makeover and ice cream.  But living a normal life while working these things out like normal people builds self esteem from within, not in some artifically crafted emo-dome.





Possibly the worst thing for this type of kid is to isolate them from the rest of the world, while they're worked over by a peer group whose very nature is to wear down self esteem, and rebuild in it the image OF The Program, which is generally incongruent with normal society.





What happens to the thin veneer of self esteem then?





 
Quote



I certainly hope that a poster with a child suffering for low self-esteem doesn't take your advice for a makeover and ice cream.  I hope they get the child therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child. What's your advice for a depressed child - take them to see a funny movie?







Why is it that the first thing you want to do is make a generic teen malady into psychiatric emergency?  EVERY TEEN AT SOME POINT Goes through self esteem problems, depression, anger, generalized pissiness.





What's your advice to a kid with zits?  Plastic Surgery?"




You certainly seemed to have read more into the simpleton advice that was there.  So I assume you think the "makeover and ice cream" is fantastic advice??  Oh wait, you are going to act as interpreter and tell us what Niles REALLY meant to say.



Gee - ever stop and think when you take a child who thinks they are ugly to get a "makeover", you are confirming in their mind that you think they ARE ugly and need a makeover???  Ever think that going to the salad bar with a kid that thinks they are fat may be reenforcing that thought?  Ever think that if the kid IS fat, it may (or may not be) a symptom of something else, and not just a love of Oreos?



And how did you make the flying leap to isolating the kid?  or a psychiatric emergency? I never came CLOSE to saying anything like that. I believe if you READ my post, you will see I said "therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child"."  



Amazing how you can twist Niles' words into something that sounds a little more reasonable (at least on the surfact), but take mine and twist them into something outlandish.











"
Ever stop and think you're a fucking moron?  What a dope.
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 02, 2005, 10:48:00 AM
Three Springs Waygookin says you need to go have a taco.  :smile:

Our Constitution is in actual operation; everything appears to promise that it will last; but in this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.
Ben Franklin Letter to M. Leroy, 1789.

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Troll Control on October 02, 2005, 10:54:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-10-02 07:48:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"Three Springs Waygookin says you need to go have a taco.  :smile:

Our Constitution is in actual operation; everything appears to promise that it will last; but in this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.
Ben Franklin Letter to M. Leroy, 1789.

"
Will you take me for ice cream after?  My mom won't because she doesn't care about me.
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 02, 2005, 11:15:00 AM
I seriously doubt it was a parent asking a reasonable question. No regular person uses those terms in that manner. It sounded like someone trolling or someone from that program trying to stir shit up (lawyer for LIBEL lawsuits, viral marketing, what have you).

Also, what she said was vague, generalized and full of BS. Ok, so you want your child to succeed and be excellent and have self esteem. Uh, who doesnt? "Self esteem" is no reason to be incarcerated nor is it going to be helped by BEING incarcerated. So yeah, when I see, hear, etc a duck, its a fuckin' duck. And yeah, I am being a bit of a jackass right now :grin:

Quote
On 2005-10-02 07:48:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"Three Springs Waygookin says you need to go have a taco.

    Our Constitution is in actual operation; everything appears to promise that it will last; but in this world nothing is certain but death and taxes.
    Ben Franklin Letter to M. Leroy, 1789.

"
Will you take me for ice cream after? My mom won't because she doesn't care about me.


Yes, I will. Strawberry is my favorite, whats yours?

Come in the evening, or come in the morning; Come when you 're looked for, or come without warning.
-- Thomas O. Davis (1814-1845): The Welcome.

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Helena Handbasket on October 02, 2005, 12:03:00 PM
Quote
You certainly seemed to have read more into the simpleton advice that was there.  So I assume you think the "makeover and ice cream" is fantastic advice??  Oh wait, you are going to act as interpreter and tell us what Niles REALLY meant to say.

Actually, I said I think Niles was describing the first step in parental involvement. That's my interpretation of what he said.  Just like I interpreted your words, "Therapy, Counseling, etc" as way over the top when it comes to dealing with everyday teen angst.

Quote
Gee - ever stop and think when you take a child who thinks they are ugly to get a "makeover", you are confirming in their mind that you think they ARE ugly and need a makeover???  Ever think that going to the salad bar with a kid that thinks they are fat may be reenforcing that thought?  Ever think that if the kid IS fat, it may (or may not be) a symptom of something else, and not just a love of Oreos?

Yes, and that's what I was trying to tell you.  If a kid's weight problem is due to something other than a love of Oreos, it's up to the parent to get to the bottom of it, then figure out what to do about it.  The point was that too many parents are to QUICK to seek outside help.

So what if it is in fact true the kid could use a little color, a different hairstyle and a little less junk in the trunk?  What's your solution, lie to them and say "No, honey, you look fabulous!"??  Yeah, of course you don't say "Thats right you ugly little twit, for diety's sake, DO something with yourself!"  Because they already found something they don't like about themselves, but they may not know what to do about it.  It's your job as a parent to help fix that little glitch that's affecting their self-esteem.  

"Self Esteem" has more than one dimension.  Some kids are perfectly fine being great students and rather plain in looks, and some kids are okay with the fact that they look great, but they're a little slow on the uptake.  If they're OK, leave them the hell alone!  But when something bugs them - why not help them do something about it?

Kids aren't dumb, they're pretty self aware, and when you lie to them, you only make matters worse.  If you guide the kid in whatever area - hairstyle, clothing that makes them look and feel better, pointing them in the right direction as far as study habits go, etc etc... you're validating their appraisal of the sitation, and maybe boosting their self-esteem in that they're not totally delusional in thinking there's a problem.

All the above is with the assumption that the kid has a need for this - and isn't anorexic or falling into a body dysmorphic disorder or some kind of OCD where they must excel in every subject or they'll attempt suicide.  THAT is pathological.

Quote


And how did you make the flying leap to isolating the kid?  or a psychiatric emergency? I never came CLOSE to saying anything like that. I believe if you READ my post, you will see I said "therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child"."  

I said that because you throw around "Therapy and counseling" as if they're a part of family night!  Not everyone needs THERAPY!  Some kids just need an adult to LISTEN, hear them, and help them with the issue at hand.  In most cases, this adult is the parent, or someone close to them.  But when you start shoving a kid off to a counselor or a therapist, who is a stranger, you're essentially telling that kid, "Ya know what - I don't want to deal with this.  Your problems are nothing to me."
 
Quote
Amazing how you can twist Niles' words into something that sounds a little more reasonable (at least on the surfact), but take mine and twist them into something outlandish.

I didn't twist Niles' words - I used my own.  His post I agreed with, yours, I didn't. I'm not into personal attacks.  If you come up with something I agree with, you'll be the first to know.

Quote
Ever stop and think you're a fucking moron?  What a dope."


I don't know if this is yet another anon... which is why it makes things a lot easier if anons would just register a bullshit name just so we can keep the bagheads straight... anyway... Yes, I have paused many times to ponder whether or not I might be a fucking moron.  I never claimed to be perfect, and I'm sure there are times when I'm totally off the mark.  

In this case, I disagree with your assessment of me being a dope, moron.

I give as good as I get :wink:
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Helena Handbasket on October 02, 2005, 12:07:00 PM
Since everyone seems to be in a "self esteem" crisis these days, I figured I'd throw in this interesting read.

http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm? ... 414B7F0000 (http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=000CB565-F330-11BE-AD0683414B7F0000)
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Troll Control on October 02, 2005, 12:10:00 PM
Ms. Basket,

The "What a dope" comment was for the anon poster who was on the "Did you ever think..." rant, not you.

Sorry...
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Helena Handbasket on October 02, 2005, 12:13:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-02 09:10:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ms. Basket,



The "What a dope" comment was for the anon poster who was on the "Did you ever think..." rant, not you.



Sorry..."


Ok ok... I wasn't sure... Moron comment withdrawn! :smile:

Now go get a name! It's not hard - surely you don't really think my name is Ms. Basket! :grin:
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 02, 2005, 12:20:00 PM
Just wanna butt in here edgewise...

Quote
"And how did you make the flying leap to isolating the kid? or a psychiatric emergency? I never came CLOSE to saying anything like that. I believe if you READ my post, you will see I said "therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child"."


Its TERRIBLY hard to tell the bagheads apart. I was assuming you were one of "program for everything" types, but even still, going to get some doc to push pills and force or pressure for 'therapy' isn't always the right thing to do.

And yes, program = isolation, and acting like its a psychiatric emergency and ironically creating one as part of the therapy.

Anyway... spending time, giving attention and affection, and making them feel good (wow, loving them, what a concept!) does just fine on its own. When I see parents talking about things they want for their kid and what is with their kid it reeks of someone ordering something at Burger King. "Oh yeah I'll have some self esteem w/ extra structure, emotional growth, achievement, excellence, aaaand special sauce".

Its THOSE types who I was LEAPING to conclusions at - because its REAL HARD to tell an anon from another anon if they dont even sign their posts with some tag at the end! You can get a name and still be anon, and we could distinguish you from the masses of asses out there. And yeah, they would throw their kid up somewhere to get the laundry-list of warm and fuzzy teen help industry buzzwords done to their kid and act like "self esteem" and "being pushed to excellence" are worthy reasons to incarcerate a child.

So, I apologize for misunderstanding... but I still think the first thing that mom should do is take the kid out and be a freaking mother and talk before LEAPING and putting her child with total strangers herself.

And PLEASE REGISTER! Ginger already knows your ip addresses, we never will, but we could still distinguish you from the other anons.

Hear me people: We now have to deal with another race - small and feeble when our fathers first met them, but now great and overbearing. Strangely enough they have a mind to till the soil and the love of possessions is a disease with them. These people have made many rules which the rich may break but the poor may not. They take their tithes from the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule.
Chief Sitting Bull, speaking at the Powder River Conference, 1877

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 02, 2005, 12:27:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-02 09:12:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"Quote:



Do you know anything good or bad about Auldern Academy. I need a good, very structured girls boarding school for my daughter, I need a place that she will succeed and be monitored and her have good wholesome fur while meeting some self esteem issues and being encouraged to excellence. Help   Lacey



You came to the conclusion that it was all a set up to start trouble based on these two grammatically incorrect sentences? Well two sentences, and a sentence fragment, but who is counting? Well techinically I am I suppose, but back to the orginal point that somehow you could just read this post and see a troll in the in disguise? The terminology would somehow lead you to believe that this is a troll?



What even based on the above information provided qualifies you to give the advice to take the kid out for ice cream? Where is the kid's medical history hidden in that post that would indicate you could summarily dismiss the poster's posted intentions to gain information on a safe placement for his/her child? Is is in the grammar, or is it in the font? Maybe just maybe its the mispelling of fun that helped you play Mr. FBI man and come up with a full profile of this dastardly bad bloke!



Perhaps your just full of shit, and you should give the person the benifit of the doubt next time, or look a little closer and you will see what you missed.



Myself I will stick with the Turkish Style Taco. I had one today in Itaewon the sleaziest part of Korea I have been to so far, but the food was excellent. However, I do believe I am going to have to get a blood test from contracting some wierd STD from just sitting on a stool.  :cry2:

Our country right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right.
--Carl Schurz, German-born U.S. general and U.S. senator

"

TSW, *WHAT* regular white-bread mini-van driving mom uses the vocabulary and terminology that anon poster did? Seriously, who the fuck do you know who talks that way?

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Do you know anything good or bad about Auldern Academy. I need a good, very structured girls boarding school for my daughter, I need a place that she will succeed and be monitored and her have good wholesome fur while meeting some self esteem issues and being encouraged to excellence. Help   Lacey


Am I alone here in thinking that sounds like hot-buttons and buzzwords out of a seminar or "words of the day" for the WWASPS sales department?

Also, me going after "good wholesome fur" was me being a jackass. I dont really give a shit about mispeeling and bad grammer, but if I already think the person is trolling, a lawyer, someone from the program, etc then Im going to be less likely to contain myself.

There might be a chance she just talks weird, or was already in one of those madhouses as a child, or read a brocure and picked up the lingo, or whatever. It just felt very, very fishy and trollish.

Also, you might want to wear a dental-dam under your undies when you sit youre in some of the sleazy parts of down, or maybe some depends for adults? I THINK its waterproof, at least, and it could help with crotch-sweat if its real hot  :wink:

Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?"  Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown, _Peanuts_ [Charles Schulz]

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 02, 2005, 12:51:00 PM
For one, if I think someone is missing something, I at least state what it is.

For two, I DONT THINK ITS ACTUALLY A PARENT! I acted this way in the first place thinking it wasnt an actual parent, it wasnt my justification after the fact it was my REASON before I did it.

For THREE, if it IS a parent, what I'd suggest NOT KNOWING A DAMN THING (because she didnt SHARE anything) is to try to actually do something with the child her damn self and be a parent, because the only thing a program salesperson is going to say is "You have to send your child to us or they'll be deadinsaineorinjaaaaail"

You find me ONE program, ONE program that would ever say "nothing is wrong with your kid, shut up, get some help for your hypocondriac-by-proxy ass and give lil' Bobby a cookie" and I'll buy you a beer. The closest to that Ive EVER seen is a program stating theyre not a treatment center, and arent prepared/liable for certain meds, psychiatric shit, drug/detox, violence, etc, to cover their own ass should a parent ask why their child wasn't treated for it.

BTW, she wasn't asking for what you did, wilderness crap (with you there to prevent it from turning into another Paradice cove), she was suggesting a "structured boarding school" which could be juuust like Cross fuckin' Creek for all we know, and we dont even know that the child has any problems to begin with, just that the parent wants it for her kid.

So, wheres your standpoint? Whats this amazing hidden point that Im not seeing, PLEASE enlighten me! No there arent any black helicopters but the ONLY thing I can do is assume because like most Struggling PARENTS they say vague unsubstantiated shit themselves as justification for vague, unsubstantiated 'treatment' of their children, with a vauge, unsubstantiated goal (of making money as the ulterior one).

When she comes by and actually shares this herself, we'll see what this is a case of. But I think we wont be seeing her again, or shes gone to strugglingteens to be told by the stepford retards that you have to give your child over to strangers bla bla fuckin' blah.

Ministers say that they teach charity. That is natural. They live on hand-outs. All beggars teach that others should give.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer

[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-10-02 09:53 ]
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2005, 01:06:00 PM
"Oh mommy - nobody likes me cause I'm stupid and ugly and fat"

"There, there Sally darling, it's ok.  You are uglier than dirt, so we'll go take you to get a makeover!

Oh - and I think an ice cream would help.  But you are such a fat ass, maybe we should stop at the salad bar instead"

Brilliant!  I certainly hope you don't have kids or you grow up a little before you do.
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 02, 2005, 01:20:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-02 10:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

""Oh mommy - nobody likes me cause I'm stupid and ugly and fat"



"There, there Sally darling, it's ok.  You are uglier than dirt, so we'll go take you to get a makeover!



Oh - and I think an ice cream would help.  But you are such a fat ass, maybe we should stop at the salad bar instead"



Brilliant!  I certainly hope you don't have kids or you grow up a little before you do.



"


Brilliant! Your inductive logic and the implication I was trying to give are non-existant and went way over your head, respectively!

Ok, icecream and makeover might not work with someone who is lactose intolerant, vegan, or a fatass. SPIFFY. Some kids might like some things more than makeovers to do for fun, SPIFFY!

The point was to do something the child would really enjoy, because when youre having fun you dont feel so fucking shitty and depresed and forget about what made you feel so bad, and because it gives them a chance to open up and talk. Personally speaking, if I feel bad and a friend of family member or my GF gives me attention I feel better, is everyone else on earth so different?

All the girls I know liked icecream and makeovers... now obviously a guy woudlnt like that unless he was a little fruity... how about a burger joint and a trip to a movie or rent him a video game? Go do mini golf or go-karts? Sports? Sheesh! Use your imagination!

BTW - if you think that fat women dont like to eat icecream or get cosmetic shit done then I suggest you take your ass down to a neighborhood salon and see some of those fat  women that are damn fucking in love with their fat asses getting their hair and nails done, and call them ugly as dirt, ok? They're enjoying themselves and feeling good and thats what the whole damn point was.

Maybe they could slap some shit into you or tell you to grow up.

P.S. - how are you both so pedantic and stupid at the same time?

A student burst into his office.  "Professor Stigler, I don't believe I deserve this F you've given me."  To which Stigler replied, "I agree, but unfortunately it is the lowest grade the University will allow me to award."
--Professor Stigler

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 02, 2005, 01:34:00 PM
Yes, TSW, I dont know. It was all extremely vague and general, JUST like a lot of the kids getting sent off to WWASPS - vague, general indefensible (cant prove OR disprove) type of shit.

"I need to send my kid to a structured boarding school for self esteem to push her to excellence". Ok, yes, in the USA you are free to send your kid to some secured facility like that because you think she needs self esteem, but realistically speaking, how is that going to help a child? Ok youre gonna live here now and youre not free to go anywhere and you can only do what the school says, no friends, no freedom, bla bla bla.

But anyway, TSW, I got two bones to pick with you:

Quote
You not thinking its a parent is based on an assumption claiming that her treatment terminology marks her as a troll. The same kind of treatment terminology used by many other posters on fornits on a regular basis that are not considered trolls.

More than likely, shes not someone whose ben posting here a while! She came accross as someone who just got blown in with the wind that is Google (or some other search engine) who jumped in the thread asking for info on a program. Yeah, I do realize some people pick up those terms and use them, but most people STILL dont.

But regardless, why do you jump down my throat for being vague and general and not having facts when she did the same exact fucking thing? She just spills out a bunch of vague feel-good terminology, god damn at least she didnt say paragidm... and says becuase of that (such as SELF ESTEEM!!!1) she needs to send her kid off somewhere to get locked up for a long time. Wheres the standard there?

Quote
Even with a demonstrated line of evidence right in front of your eyes, again look harder it's right in front of you, and no I won't enlighten you as I would be depriving you of an excellent characeter building opprotunity. Use your super dooper decoder ring from your secret organization, and the truth will be made aware to yourself!


How about... I forget about this within the next 5 minutes and not ever give a damn?  ::both::

I dont play games of vagueness where the person on the other end can use it to put you in a double bind, or just jerk you around... ESPECIALLY after you gave me a mouthfull over vagueness and assumption.

Either say it, or expect me to give about as much of a fuck as I do now. I respect you but when you say crap like that the last thing Im going to do is ruminate over it like some Zen Koan. I dont care! I dont play those kind of 'grasshoppah' bullshit type things!

A celibate clergy is an especially good idea because it tends to suppress any hereditary propensity toward fanaticism.
--Carl Sagan, American astronomer and author

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 02, 2005, 01:45:00 PM
ASS-U-ME LOL!!!1one

There, did I take the pebble out of your hand?

Now yeah, guess what? Im assuming. MY point is that people throw children away into programs on the same ground, nothing but bullshit thats vague, general, unsubstantiated and 'horse crap'... but thats okay?

I cant say "watch out, its bullshit, why not share some details?" But oh she can throw a kid in a lockin facility just because she feels like it?

The real lesson here is that theres a big double standard and becuase you worked for the industry, while I have not (and its no secret that Im very much not liking any of it at all right now) thus youre more inclined to just trust what Mrs Tweedle-Dum said about her kid. BTW, the vagueness in what she said is HER FAULT, not mine! I didnt choose what she said, she did, go bitch her out for saying vague unsubstantiated horse crap about her kid.

Hey, why dont YOU qualify, quantify, explain in a proof, etc, why a child needs to be kept in a secured 'boarding school' for self esteem issues and be pushed for excellence? Why the fuck cant a parent do that?

YOU are assuming that the child needs help and theres an actual problem, and that its an actual parent, unless either 1. you posted it anonymously yourself or 2. there is a correspondance Im not aware of.

P.S. - Wheres that program that would not take a child that was found to not really have anything wrong? Still lookin' fer one!

No citizen of a liberal and democratic nation profits from a victorious war.
--Ludwig von Mises

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Helena Handbasket on October 02, 2005, 01:54:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-02 10:39:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"Forget it all you want that is your problem not mine, or really what your saying is you looked and you just can't pick up on the obvious?


Why don't you just say what's so obvious - because I missed it too.  I have to agree - when I hear words like "structure" "self esteem" and "wholesome", I tend to cringe.

It's kinda like walking onto a used car lot, and you already know what's going to spew out of the face of the balding, badly dressed salesman walking your direction.  You brace yourself, as he shakes your hand, and lo and behold - here it comes... the windup, the pitch, and ZING - yep - it's  everything you've already heard.  

Are you saying you wouldn't pre-emptively strike down bullshit? Or do you just let it play out?

But we're not talking about cars here, we're talking about kids.  Living, breathing souls that are going to have to live with the crap their parents fall for.

What's obvious to me is that this woman is trying to wrap buzzwords around her kid, and the fact is that there are places out there that will not question the parent's motives.  If you're such a professional, why don't you question more?
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Helena Handbasket on October 02, 2005, 02:25:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-02 11:18:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"Becareful they wee little people might be watching you!...


Ok, so you're picking on presumptions of those who are also opposed to TBSs.  So what's your opinion of the OP, other than that she needs a remedial English class?
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 02, 2005, 02:33:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-02 11:18:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:

"Becareful they wee little people might be watching you!



First of all my arguement to date has had absolutely nothing to do with her decision to search for a structured boarding school for her child. No where have I said I think we need to start locking up kids for no apparent reason. I have certainly not started some crusade to enlighten the chipmunks of the forest on the benifits of programs everywhere. What I have contended with this whole time is your vague meanderings.



Your vagueness has everything to do with the fact that your asserting the poster is a troll based on terminology. No where have I brought in my opinions on her decision to seek out a structured boarding school for her child. If anything I have refrained from putting forward my opinion on that matter in the absence of information.



To date thus far in the contention of this issue I had made no comments into my opinion regarding the nature of the child's exact needs. This relates back to the issue of not knowing the exact details of the family's situation. For the majority of this issue I have questioned your wild speculations based on absolutely nothing.



My past record here for the most part has to encourage people to avoid sending their children to TBS style settings. I have used the insight I gained through my employment in the industry to make suggestions for those people who have asked. This has happened on numerous occasions, and on a couple of occasions its been suggested I make contact with parents over on Struggling Teens to provide information, and I have done just that.



My point that I have made again, and again in a very clear manner is that you have no idea what the story is about this woman, and her child, but yet your attempting to argue a position that you have no knowledge of. Even more amusing is now your starting to make assertions that somehow I am a predisposed to favoring programs. Perhaps holding onto reality just a little bit tighter is a thought to consider.



Try not to wander off the point to much next time.







The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie-deliberate, contrived, and dishonest-but the myth-persistent, persuasive, and unrealistic.
--John F. Kennedy, U.S. President

"


So, HOW many words to say you: "think Im a jackass for assuming shes not a legitimate parent"?

Thanks. Really, this was much more personally growthful than if we had avoided the M.A.D. flamewar.

I still think that the way she spoke was VERY, VERY fishy, and out of the norm. It did not strike me as a 'scared' parent, or a concerned one, just the bright-eyed (from all the glaze) tone of a parent wanting the McTherapy Deluxe combo (to go) for her kid.

If you disagree, thats fine, but its not like there isnt a long standing record of programmie parents here and abroad (struggling teens?) acting like buffoons, or people who are already drunk off of 'the punch' who talk that way.

I still must insist - WHO THE FUCK TALKS THAT WAY Except for... programmies, salespeople, trolls, or people who have been in a program? I really dont want to be an ass about this, but come the hell on  TSW. I have a point. The tone and vocabulary was way out of left field for the non-program norm and exactly what Id expect FROM a programmite.

History does not record anywhere or at any time a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unkonwn without help. But, like dandruff, most people do have a religion and spend time and money on it and seem to derive considerable pleasure from fiddling with it.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author

Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Nihilanthic on October 02, 2005, 04:17:00 PM
Being black and/or having a lisp is not a choice. How you speak IS! You pick up your vocabulary depending on who you hang around, and what you do.

Go listen to some frat boys talk, then go listen to teachers. They talk based on what who their friends/peers are and who theyre talking to.

Businessey people might say paradigm a lot. And yeah, people will use slang with whatever culture they identify with - regardless of race.

Now, considering those words are very much OUTSIDE of common useage except for a few groups, is it as safe assumption to make? Id think so.

I do realize it is an assumption, but it is all Im able to due in lieu of knowledge. And another thing is that when you have to guess, if you can make one with information available to estimate in lack of concrete knowledge, its better than nothing at all.

But hey, we do agree that TBS's are to be avoided and the woman was vague and nonspecific and severely lacking in any information. I just inferred the vagueness and the lingo to reflect something to do with the programs ALREADY - because thats how they talk!

This isn't talking with a lisp = gay, this is more like a man talking about his boyfriend = gay.

Revelation indeed had no weight with me.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2005-10-02 13:19 ]
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2005, 09:07:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-02 10:20:00, Nihilanthic wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-02 10:06:00, Anonymous wrote:


""Oh mommy - nobody likes me cause I'm stupid and ugly and fat"





"There, there Sally darling, it's ok.  You are uglier than dirt, so we'll go take you to get a makeover!





Oh - and I think an ice cream would help.  But you are such a fat ass, maybe we should stop at the salad bar instead"





Brilliant!  I certainly hope you don't have kids or you grow up a little before you do.





"




Brilliant! Your inductive logic and the implication I was trying to give are non-existant and went way over your head, respectively!



Ok, icecream and makeover might not work with someone who is lactose intolerant, vegan, or a fatass. SPIFFY. Some kids might like some things more than makeovers to do for fun, SPIFFY!



The point was to do something the child would really enjoy, because when youre having fun you dont feel so fucking shitty and depresed and forget about what made you feel so bad, and because it gives them a chance to open up and talk. Personally speaking, if I feel bad and a friend of family member or my GF gives me attention I feel better, is everyone else on earth so different?



All the girls I know liked icecream and makeovers... now obviously a guy woudlnt like that unless he was a little fruity... how about a burger joint and a trip to a movie or rent him a video game? Go do mini golf or go-karts? Sports? Sheesh! Use your imagination!



BTW - if you think that fat women dont like to eat icecream or get cosmetic shit done then I suggest you take your ass down to a neighborhood salon and see some of those fat  women that are damn fucking in love with their fat asses getting their hair and nails done, and call them ugly as dirt, ok? They're enjoying themselves and feeling good and thats what the whole damn point was.



Maybe they could slap some shit into you or tell you to grow up.



P.S. - how are you both so pedantic and stupid at the same time?

A student burst into his office.  "Professor Stigler, I don't believe I deserve this F you've given me."  To which Stigler replied, "I agree, but unfortunately it is the lowest grade the University will allow me to award."
--Professor Stigler

"


Lovely - I think this post sums up your *ahem* intelligence quite nicely.  Not to mention giving us a wonderful insight into your caring and sensitivity.

What an ass.
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Anonymous on October 02, 2005, 09:16:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-02 07:47:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-02 07:01:00, Anonymous wrote:


"
Quote


On 2005-10-02 06:07:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:



"
Quote









So that's your solution to low self-esteem?  Take her for a makeover and an ice cream?!?!?!?!















I think a huge point sailed right over your head. In this scenario of a girl-child with low self esteem - the kid gives a clue to the parent that she feels like she might be ugly, and the parent takes the reigns and involves themselves in that kids life in something directly aimed at the "I think I'm ugly" problem.  







Of course, if she felt fat, you'd probably pass by the ice cream shoppe, and head for a salad bar, while chit-chatting about how to make low fat and low calorie less boring.







I think Niles was describing the first step in parental involvement.  Of course there's more to it than a makeover and ice cream.  But living a normal life while working these things out like normal people builds self esteem from within, not in some artifically crafted emo-dome.







Possibly the worst thing for this type of kid is to isolate them from the rest of the world, while they're worked over by a peer group whose very nature is to wear down self esteem, and rebuild in it the image OF The Program, which is generally incongruent with normal society.







What happens to the thin veneer of self esteem then?







 
Quote




I certainly hope that a poster with a child suffering for low self-esteem doesn't take your advice for a makeover and ice cream.  I hope they get the child therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child. What's your advice for a depressed child - take them to see a funny movie?










Why is it that the first thing you want to do is make a generic teen malady into psychiatric emergency?  EVERY TEEN AT SOME POINT Goes through self esteem problems, depression, anger, generalized pissiness.







What's your advice to a kid with zits?  Plastic Surgery?"







You certainly seemed to have read more into the simpleton advice that was there.  So I assume you think the "makeover and ice cream" is fantastic advice??  Oh wait, you are going to act as interpreter and tell us what Niles REALLY meant to say.





Gee - ever stop and think when you take a child who thinks they are ugly to get a "makeover", you are confirming in their mind that you think they ARE ugly and need a makeover???  Ever think that going to the salad bar with a kid that thinks they are fat may be reenforcing that thought?  Ever think that if the kid IS fat, it may (or may not be) a symptom of something else, and not just a love of Oreos?





And how did you make the flying leap to isolating the kid?  or a psychiatric emergency? I never came CLOSE to saying anything like that. I believe if you READ my post, you will see I said "therapy, counseling, or whatever is needed to help the child"."  





Amazing how you can twist Niles' words into something that sounds a little more reasonable (at least on the surfact), but take mine and twist them into something outlandish.

















"

Ever stop and think you're a fucking moron?  What a dope."


As opposed to your brilliant insight?  Did you have a point here?  If so, you forgot to make it.
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Three Springs Survivor on December 11, 2005, 06:10:00 PM
It was very important for me to read what your post.  During my experience at Three Springs Paint Rock Valley in the early 90's, I suffered through a lot of emotional and physical abuse.  To hear some one who worked in that Hell and feel regret about their participation means a lot to me.  I wish others would come out and speak about what happened.  A lot of us good "kids" need closure.

It has been 11 years since I was a resident and I still suffer nightmares.  Three Springs is a program that has the potential to churn out violent, anti social, anti authority sociopaths. It needs to be closed.
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Three Springs Survivor on December 11, 2005, 06:21:00 PM
Oh, and so that you know I am not some idiot trying to ruffle feathers around here, my ID at Three Springs was NR336.  I was in two seperate groups.  I was moved after running away with another resident in a counselors car. I remember a lot of staff and residents names.  I remember my campsites all too well.  I would like to share my story when the time is right.  I am not sure how I will be recieved in these forums.  I am just looking for support, an outlet, people like me.  I have been in several other programs listed in these forums.  All of them as a teenager.

I am doing much better in my life now.  I actually do work for a residential treatment facility in upstate NY today.
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Three Springs Survivor on December 13, 2005, 03:52:00 PM
What years were you working for them?  Do you have any idea who I am?
Title: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Three Springs Survivor on December 14, 2005, 11:19:00 AM
Ok, thats good.  I'm going to post a new thread called Three Springs Experience.  I would like you to read it and see how much worse it probably was before you worked their.  Any feedback you may have is welcome.
Title: Re: Three Springs Alumni
Post by: Oscar on January 24, 2021, 03:43:11 AM
Hey.....  Three springs caught my eye.  I graduated from Auldern Academy.  Did you have any contact with the people there?

Auldern Academy is now on "1000 places You don't want to be as a teenager"

818. Auldern Academy (https://1000placesudontwanttobe.wordpress.com/2020/12/26/818-auldern-academy/)