Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 05, 2004, 11:10:00 PM
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It all comes down to 2 simple reasons:
There is no excuse for abuse.
Children are not property. They can not be traded, sold or given away under the guise of "helping families heal".
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Very well said, Anon. :tup:
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I guess they can be given away to child protective services or the juvenile justice system. now there's a better way!! Just go visit your child behind bars like you were going to the zoo. :rofl:
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On 2004-02-05 20:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I guess they can be given away to child protective services or the juvenile justice system. now there's a better way!! Just go visit your child behind bars like you were going to the zoo. :rofl: "
Yes, Anon, there are plenty of throwaway kids in the JJ system and foster care, thanks to fucked up parents such as yourself.
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Must be tough locking your kid up in an institutionalized program and throwng the key away until that kid learns to respect God, Family and Country. Poor parents, having to hire somebody to torment their kids into submission.
::mecry::
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Now your gettiing the picture!
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On 2004-02-05 21:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Now your gettiing the picture!"
No idiot, you are not getting the picture. Parents do not have the right to abuse the human rights and civil liberties of their own children.
Those that think they do are parents-from-hell.
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On 2004-02-05 20:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I guess they can be given away to child protective services or the juvenile justice system. now there's a better way!! Just go visit your child behind bars like you were going to the zoo. :rofl: "
Hey Program Parent - you should have used birth control while fornicating because you are obviously unfit to parent.
:rofl:
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On 2004-02-05 20:27:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"Very well said, Anon. :smokin:
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The world is a big bad place...People get chewed up and spit out all the time.
Get a helmet, and good luck :eek:
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Right Therion, all the more reason for parents to just say no to $pecialty $chools and Programs and locate a family therapist near or in their community that can help families heal without holding the poor kid hostage in the bottomless pit of some money-making program. Family therapy is the answer, not commercialized teen warehouses or these LGAT seminars that specialize in robbing kids of their individuality. Honestly, there is a better way but it can be difficult for parents to resist the temptation to buy into these SS hook, line and sinker. Especially when the other person on the line is pressuring them to do something before it's too late and their child isdeadorinjail. Only children who are suicidal or severally psychotic need to be institutionalized for their own safety and round the clock care and treatment. 90 days is the average according to behavioral healthcare professionals. Therapeutic boarding schools are a different breed and should NOT be confused with rudimentary behavior modification programs which can be very detrimental to a child with special needs.
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On 2004-02-05 20:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I guess they can be given away to child protective services or the juvenile justice system. now there's a better way!! Just go visit your child behind bars like you were going to the zoo. :rofl: "
Only in jail if the kid actually commits a *crime*.
And the *kid* has more rights in either jail *or* foster care than in these private prisons.
After all, it *is* about what's best for the *kid*, not what's best for the parents.
Isn't it?
Obviously not for you. You really are just that selfish. No wonder your kid's fucked up.
If I was as selfish as you, my kid would be fucked up, too, instead of over there cheerfully and happily doing her math schoolwork.
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I guess they can be given away to child protective services or the juvenile justice system. now there's a better way!! Just go visit your child behind bars like you were going to the zoo.
I wonder about anons like you, asshole. I wonder if you're:
a) A program parent
b) An employee for WWASP or similar death camp
c) Just some bored jerk-off who likes to troll these forums
Which is it? You're probably too much of a coward to even tell us this much...fuck you in advance.
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/BUMP :smokin: :grin:
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The Teen Help Industry is a magnet for unscrupulous profiteers, including so-called advocates who are capitalizing on the misfortune of others in a most immoral and possibly criminal fashion. While it does not surprise me that "everyone has their price", it is a sad day for children when they can not trust their own parents. Those of you who have betrayed the trust of your children can not imagine nor appreciate what it means to be a child left to fend for themselves in a program ruled by fear and intimidation. If you could, you would call your own children home and never, ever refer someone else's child into a program for any amount of money, fame or glory.
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THe Teen Help Industry is here because they aren't bound by insurance companies telling the parents what kind of help they can get and for how long. They are around because the parents are no longer willing to sedate or medicate their child and know healing occurs by taking on what they learn as a family because of these programs. THey know it's much harder than masking the symptoms with meds, but they do it because they love their child.
If there was an easy answer to all the breakdowns we wouldn't need to learn how to rebuild the family. Family IS family, not parents against teens, teens against parents in most of these programs and schools. It's the WHOLE family.
Mom and dad aren't sending junior off to get fixed. They are each doing their own work to bring the family back together. What don't some of you understand about that?
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Well, ya gotta love these program apologists. Always insisting that putting their child in a program is the key to bringing families back together again. Of course, no one really believes this, least of all the kid spending the better part of his/her adolescence helping their parents grow up.
:roll:
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On 2004-02-07 00:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well, ya gotta love these program apologists. Always insisting that putting their child in a program is the key to bringing families back together again. Of course, no one really believes this, least of all the kid spending the better part of his/her adolescence helping their parents grow up.
::bigsmilebounce:: ::rocker::
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On 2004-02-06 23:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"THe Teen Help Industry is here because they aren't bound by insurance companies telling the parents what kind of help they can get and for how long. They are around because the parents are no longer willing to sedate or medicate their child and know healing occurs by taking on what they learn as a family because of these programs. THey know it's much harder than masking the symptoms with meds, but they do it because they love their child.
If there was an easy answer to all the breakdowns we wouldn't need to learn how to rebuild the family. Family IS family, not parents against teens, teens against parents in most of these programs and schools. It's the WHOLE family.
Mom and dad aren't sending junior off to get fixed. They are each doing their own work to bring the family back together. What don't some of you understand about that? "
Do you really believe even half of the program jargon you spout?
"healing occurs" "taking on" "doing their own work"
"Bring[ing] a family back together" by shipping the kid several states away is like trying to bring a marriage back together by shipping the husband and wife several states away from each other.
Real, effective family therapy needs the family under the same roof.
It needs to be illegal to involuntarily commit a kid to residential treatment unless the kid has been convicted of a crime (and the incarceration period is proportional), or is actively suicidal, or is an immediate risk of violent harm to others, or is provably addicted to an illegal psychoactive drug.
Note that is *addicted*--not just showing signs of having used at some point.
I want what you and people like you do to kids to be *illegal*--because it's already unethical, IMO.
What don't *you* understand about *that*?
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If a kid is convicted of a crime don't they go to juvenile jail? Residential Treatment Centers aren't for kids who are convicted of a felony, as most won't accept them. What you listed as criteria for an admission is not what most of these places will accept. Leave that to inpatient treatment, then transfer to an RTC.
Another thing, someone said that 85% of high school students have tried drugs. Does that make it okay?
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I'm sure there's a lot of abuse going on out there, does that make it ok?
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What, kids try drugs? Have sex? Don't want to go to church on Sunday, anymore? Break Curfew Laws? Sneak out of the house (after helping themselves to a few bucks out of Mom's wallet)? Not good behavior, but what do you expect? These are teenagers, not adults. Taking risks, testing boundaries, that's what teens do. It's only after learning from their mistakes, that teens morph into responsible adults. Teens who don't do any of these things, obviously are the kind of kids most parents would love to have. But it's not realistic. Teens will be teens and the majority of them do these things, or least try. Using drugs, alcohol, having unsafe sex, ditching school and church, is not good for anybody. Parents who have a good relationship with their kids can usually get their kids back on the right track without the need for long-term placement. It's the parents who do not have a good relationship with their kids that are the prime candidates for these programs. Look at the statistics. These places are full of mostly white, well-to-do kids whose parents have lost control and are desperate to get it back.
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Now you listen here you...no kid of mine is gonna do that stuff and git away with it, no sir. I'll whip their little asses RAW first! There ain't nuthin' wrong with a little discipline... :rofl:
(Just kidding, BTW)
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Good shot, Froderick. Can I give it a try?
"Listen you spoiled, ungrateful kid ... I work my ass off to support you and your sister while your no-good dad is busy screwing his new wife who is not much older than you, by the way. You either play by my rules or you are going to a program, got it?"
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To Parents Considering Private Boarding Schools, CAVEAT EMPTOR (Buyer Beware).
Posted: 2004-02-06 12:26:00
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CEDU talked about changes; they made changes, then they went straight back to the old model. Why? Because the dim-wit CEDU staff revolted. If you send a child there, he or she will experience softer raps, softer propheets that are still straight out of hell mental torture and brainwashing. The clinical people don't run the show. In fact, they are a sideshow. I was part of it.
The SCHOOLS are overrun with high school drop out "counselors" and high school graduate "counselors", trained by uneducated people to practice dangerous clinical therapy such as Bio-Energetics, Gestalt Therapy and Reality Therapy who are abusive, hyperreligious maniacs, hungry for power, who have no ethics and enforce mental torture exactly like that given in chinese mind control camps as discussed by author Robert Lifton in "Thought Control and the Psychology of Totalism." Hell would be better than CEDU - Now Or Ever. It is in Idaho because Idaho is backward, racist, homophobic, anti-human rights, lost in the 1940's -- Child abuse, like in Utah, is covertly legal here. That is why all the worst schools go into business here and in Utah. We dont have Famous Potatoes. We have famous prison camps for children who have done nothing wrong, who have rich, lazy, narcisistic parernts who would rather make money than raise children. You know who you are. I am a Psychotherapist. Don't trust any private boarding school for teens - especially in Idaho.
*** Originally Posted by Antibody (See CEDU Forum)
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Remember, itis only the teenagers whose parents can afford private boarding school that get sen away. All other teenagers are allowed to tough out the rough years. Iwas one of those teenagers and so were my kids. My point is that we turned out great!!!!
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Good point Anon to which I would like to add that in my opinion, too many parents who can afford the hefty price tag attached to private programs equate the cost with QUALITY. Well, I got news for those parents. Try kicking the tires a little harder and taking a closer look under the hood of these expensive programs before you sign on the dotted sign.
:silly:
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On 2004-02-08 17:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Good point Anon to which I would like to add that in my opinion, too many parents who can afford the hefty price tag attached to private programs equate the cost with QUALITY. Well, I got news for those parents. Try kicking the tires a little harder and taking a closer look under the hood of these expensive programs before you sign on the dotted sign.
:silly: "
That is dotted line (not sign). Hopefully, ya'all figured that out and that sometimes, these posts have a way of writing themselves??? :rofl:
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Posted: 2004-02-08 19:18:00
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I've seen a *lot* of false negatives on bipolar diagnoses---the doctor sees the patient and thinks he's looking at something other than bipolar disorder for a long time until he finally sees a manic or hypomanic episode.
I've *never* seen a false positive diagnosis of bipolar disorder. It's genetic. If you have it at thirty, you had it at eight---it just wasn't recognized.
The reason psychiatrists are diagnosing bipolar disorder earlier is that more and more family and long-term data is available to assist them in knowing it when they see it in younger patients.
The reason it's important to medicate even young bipolars is because a growing body of evidence indicates that manic episodes do actual brain damage and worsen the disease in the patient---medicating the disease not only suppresses the symptoms, it prevents the condition from worsening.
If a kid has bipolar disorder, he/she should be medicated properly so that there *are* no highs and lows. If there are highs and lows, you call the doctor and he calls you back and adjusts your dose accordingly.
Inpatient treatment is NOT necessary merely to feed a bipolar patient his or her pills.
Mentally ill adults have the legal *right* to have their mental illness treated in the least restrictive setting that can provide effective treatment.
Institutionalizing a child for an illness that could be dealt with effectively in a less restrictive setting may, for now, be legal, but it's also absolutely immoral, unethical, and abusive.
There's no reason on earth to stick a bipolar who's stable on medication in an institution somewhere. It's a waste of money, and a vile waste of the child's childhood.
I do believe in Outpatient Commitment, where a patient who won't take his or her medication is involuntarily committed and restabilized and released until and unless he/she goes off his/her medication again. If the patient is habitually resistant to taking his/her medication, I do believe in inpatient commitment for that patient.
For bipolar teens stable on medication, institutionalization is unnecessary.
For bipolar teens who *need* inpatient treatment to stabilize them, I've seen *nothing* from the various programs to indicate their competence to be the facilities providing that treatment.
If *my* child needed inpatient care to stabilize her in such a situation, I would not trust anything but a *real* mental hospital or ward of a *real* hospital.
I certainly wouldn't trust any facility that also accepted kids whose problems were on the order of shoplifting, screwing around, smoking pot, skipping school, or vandalism.
Delinquents, nuts, and delinquents who are also nuts belong in separate facilities. A facility that tries to be all things to all people is unlikely to be providing appropriate care to any of them.
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Thanks Anon, this is very good information and I hope it helps parents to steer clear of programs and treatment modalities that are unsafe and ineffective. Urggggh. Why can't there be a moratorium imposed on the Teen Help Industry until these kinds of issues are resolved? Kids lives are on the line, you would think that would be enough to warrant a nation-wide clamp down on the industry.
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can i sue?
Posted: 2004-02-09 07:30:00
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This is a serious inquiry.
I want to know if there is any hope of settling a lawsuit against CEDU school.
I am not a money-grubber, just a concerned ex-student who wants to see CEDU take it where it hurts, their wallet.
Let me explain.
I attended CEDU high school, California for nearly three years.
The years in question were 1995-1997.
During that time, I experience uncountable atrocities, abuses and brainwashings.
I completed the full program, including every single profeet they have to offer, finishing with their week-long summit workshop.
I graduated their program thanks to having a stubborn mother who ignored my constant tearful pleas to remove me from the program. She was under advisement from the staff to ignore all my requests, and dismiss my claims as lies. She continued to do so even after I advanced in the program and was no longer monitored on phone calls. She was lied to. Even today, when I tell her that everything I ever told her was true, and that I have nothing to gain by telling her that now, she goes white-faced and silent and tells me she does not want to talk about it.
During my stay at CEDU, I was placed on a "table restriction" for an entire month. This remains the longest restriction I have ever known anyone to have been on. I sat on a hard wooden bench, no cushioning, in the dining room to face the ridicule of my peers. Every night I got the hardest, dirtiest, nastiest washroom jobs possible. By day I labored in freezing conditions, clearing a "nature trail" a good four miles of deep woods trail blanketed by two feet of solid snow and ice. I did this even though it was the dead of winter and no one bothered to go on the trail. On another "work assignment", I dug a rain-trench and hauled rocks across campus by wheelbarrow (saving the school contracting fees to get it done professionally) in the hot summer sun while "good" kids got to lay on blankets on the grass, play guitar and eat candy and watch me work. To add insult to injury, while I walked by counselors would lean over the balcony and yell at me to move faster while kids laughed, watching me try to run with a wheelbarrow full of rocks. I hauled buckets of them to landscape a tiny, dirt-filled pavilion observable when walking into the dining hall, in preparation for parent visits, to help make things pretty. During this assignment I dislocated my wrist, and for weeks was unable to even lift my notebook for school. This did not stop them. Collapsing into bed that first night after dislocation, I was awake all night crying because I thought my wrist was broken. They ridiculed me when I reported it, refusing to stop making me work, also refusing me pain medication (thought I might like it, maybe)
During sporting events, I was forced into a swimming pool on a rainy, forty degree day. The water was so cold my leg cramped up and I couldn't walk without a limp for months. In fact for up to a year afterward, whenever I went for a walk the pain would return. Nevertheless, they continued to force me to train for their wilderness trip. "Training" consisted of forcibly running three miles, three times a week plus sprinting in the parking lot and up a seventy degree angled hill (the hill to the "non potable water supply" cedu students will know what I mean). The trip itself was two weeks of hell. I was forced to hike no less than ten miles a day for the first week. At the end of the first day, due to equipment malfunction, (cheap thirty year old frame packs can't distribute weight well) I reported that my feet were masses of blisters. I was told "pad em up, move em out", and had to walk on them while they burst unter my weight, causing excruciating pain. It felt like walking on hot coals all day. I was not allowed to rest them, let alone stop the trip. One of my friends accidentally spilled boiling water on his leg, causing second degree burns. He was not allowed to leave the trip either, let alone have the injuries medically treated. Within a couple days, his blistered legs were draining a large amount of foul-smelling, pus-like discharge. He still went untreated, having to clean the wounds in dirty, parasite-filled streams which we couldn't even drink without chemically treating. Staff did not care. Another trip I wasn't on had their packs mauled by bears in the night who ate most of their already meager food. During my four days of forced isolation on the trip, I was given water, a bag of granola and two cereal bars a day. I was not allowed to take any other food. I slept on the ground under a tarp with no sides, despite nearly stepping on a rattlesnake two days earlier. We were so deep in the wilderness that I observed a wild wolf drink from the stream a few feet from where I sat. A full-grown bear charged down the hill ten feet away from me, chasing what I never knew. Thank god he didn't see me, or I would be another casualty. I was later told we were constantly monitored by counselors, but I never saw them.
Due to my alleged noncompliance with the program, I had to repeat this wilderness event two more times. Most students only do it once, and consider it the hardest thing they ever do. I did it three times. At the end of each time, I had to complete a nine mile run on the desert sun with no rest stops. The third trip I refused, due to the masses of blisters on my feet. Returning to school, I had a table restriction waiting. On my longest restriction, I completed at least a hundred full pages, front and back, of "writing assignment", intense personal information that I had to leave on my table at all times. Several times I would return from work assignments to find untrained staff or students reading them without my permission. If the counselors thought they weren't personal enough, they would tear them out and throw them away and make me rewrite them. During raps I was screamed at in front of other students about my personal issues by both counselors and students. In fact, untrained, unschooled student peers were regularly allowed to assist in working with other students on emotional growth issues. To encourage this, students would get punished, by which I mean more work, if they did not confront at least two students per rap on meaningful issues during the first few months of stay.
Also because of my so-called noncompliance, which really meant I observed no signs of brainwashing yet, having not learned to do everything everyone told me without question, I was dropped not one but two peer groups, each time extending my potential stay by six months. I would have had to watch my friends graduate without me, but there were so many runaways that they had to combine all three peer groups into one just to have enough to keep them going. I was told they would keep doing this until I complied. When I observed that I would eventually become 18 and be allowed to leave, they countered that they would get my mom to sign a paper saying I was incompetent to be a legal adult. I don't even know if this is possible, but by then was so mentally exhausted I believed it. I was verbally abused, sworn at, physically threatened. Phone calls were monitored in case I told my parents what was really going on, and limited to fifteen minutes every two weeks. Letters were read before sent, and only allowed if they met standards, which meant they could not contain pleas to leave. This would be considered not working with the program. Incoming letters were opened without permission and read before I ever recieved them, any offending material removed. If any gifts were sent by sympathetic family members, they were confiscated and kept by staff. Letters were restricted to family members only. Sex was not allowed, smoking was not allowed, even by 18 year old adults. Nearly all forms of music were banned. Even naming a restricted band resulted in punishment. Severe dress codes were in effect, banning logos, any clothes with words on them, the color black, baggy clothes, suggestive clothes, jewelry, long hair in boys, hair dye, sideburns were limited, buzz-cuts, mohawks, shaved heads, all banned. Students recieved punishments for untucked shirts, unparted hair. This was supposed to mbe to help keep the focus on emotional growth and to not hide behind an image, but was just an exercise in conformity, to forcing kids to adapt to the counselors demands. Speech patterns, suspicious nicknames, hand gestures, anything that couold be consedered image-driven, was banned. I was once banned from the library because rather than spend time moitoring other students for signs of dissent, I liked to read. Alone. I was banned from being alone. To discourage revolt. students were routinrly banned specifically from anyone they formed a close friendship with. Any restriction (table, couch, pit, wherever) was met with automatic bans from younger levels of students who might be les brainwashed. I was once accused of excessive masturbating, and forced to ask an older student or staff's permission to escort me to the bathroom and monitor my activity. The reason for this was because I spent a lot of time in the bathroom in order to just be alone. I was ridiculed, known thereafter by my peers as the "bathroom escort masturbator". We were contstantly punished if we ate more than a small amount of food, being accused of not letting others have their share, or "scarcity". If found guilty, plates would have to pass staff inspection. All the students were very thin, which was good for parents who liked to see improving body images, and mistook starvation for health. On parent visits, cooks would prepare more expenive and better quality food to promote the illuson we were eating well. On one occasion the entire school got food poisoning and spent two days suffering from uncontrollable vomiting and diarrhea, often at the same time, as well as severe dehydration to the point of delirium. I personally remember speding the night crying and confused, my entire dorm (and every other) literally taking turns in the bathroom puking and shitting. At one point I passed out on the toilet and had to be awakened by a roommate who needed the bathroom. My roommated would talk to themelves, laugh at nothing and sing songs at the top of their lungs all night. I remember discovering that my blanket was all balled up and crying out loud because in my confusion I did not know how to straighten it out. I could hear crying coming from other dorms. I know I cried out loud a lot of times. Immediately after supper that first night,the first one to get sick went to the doctor. When the doctor suspected the cause might be a food-borne organism, the student was returned to school. No further students were permitted to seek medical attention, even though 95% got life-threateningly sick. I could not keep down fluid, I just kept throwing it back up again. I should have gotten an IV, but they wouldn't allow it. To this day I am amazed no one died. The next morning, staff told everyone NOT TO DRINK THE WATER!! I remember crying because I wanted water so badly. The staff insisted that the illness was in the water, and no one was to drink it. They said a truck was to come with bottle water. It never did. I was given one can of seven-up, which I could not keep down. Most students were too weak to get out of bed. Still, staff continued to insist it was "something in the water", and that we were to tell that to our parents if they asked. In a couple of days, they declared the water "treated" and forgot the incident. No one ever came to investigate our water supply, which came from an isolated tank on campus and could have been easily tested. It wasn't. I know this because we were forced to limit out showers to five minutes per person per day, on grounds that we might deplete the water supply. Not taking one shower a day was grounds for punishment also. In addition to all these rules and restrictions, staff could make up new ones on a whim. One staff placed a student on work assignments for asking if he was gay. Another put a kid on a whole week of dishes for "disagreeing". Parents would come up on designated days for the whole school, or had to request a visit in advance so the pleace could be "prepared" for them. Events never offered otherwise were trotted out for parents. Counselors would smile and mess up students hair.
It was sickening. The parents would go through their own profeets, except they would take place in comfy resort hotels. I had the opportunity to observe a part of one on one occasion. It was nothing more than a baby meditation exercise where the parents "went back to childhood" together and were told everything was okay. Then they gave each other hugs. They didn't even have to experience sleep deprivation. Yet they were told that they too had experienced the profeet, so they could see what we went through and get to bond about it with us. On the other hand, we were told that if we thought we were going to fall asleep, we should stand behind our chairs to stay awake all night. Same thing? You decide.
All of this and so much more it would take a whole book to write it all happened directly to me. These are not just stories. The stories I heard, about CEDU, Ascent, RMA, Suws and other such places could fill a book of their own, but I can't account for their validity. These things I wrote about I can, because I experienced them personally.
So does anyone here think I have grounds to sue the school, or do you think they have some kind of legal loopholes in place to avoid it. See, even now I am still paranoid that they'll get the upper hand. For months after I graduated, I suffered nightly nightmares that I had been enrolled again, or had to start over. I woke from those sweating and in terror. I understood what vietnam vets mean by flashback. The whole thing felt like POW camp. If you ran away, they sent private escorts after you to track you down, cuff you and bring you back. One kid made it to Germany and was still found. Others disappeared and their parents never heard from them again. IF they were 18, their parents were encouraged to disown them and not support them in any way. I saw several parents tell their kid to their face they would do this.
If anyone knows anything about suing, wants to, is trying, has tried, please let me know.
If anyone remembers any of these incidents, or has stories from CEDU or other schools, let me know. I am writing a book on the subject and may include other people's stories.
If anyone just wants to commiserate, I am available.
My e-mail is [email protected]
P.S. to Mark Waitt, Alyx Thorson, Joe Csapo and Anthony Musso- if you are alive and read this, please write me. They never let me contact you.
Jake Hallam
survivor
R.I.P. Heather Woods
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Posted: 2004-02-09 23:09:00
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CEDU Settles Personal Injury, Fraud Claims
http://www.bonnercountydailybee.com/pag ... p?str=3541 (http://www.bonnercountydailybee.com/pages/news/news.asp?str=3541)
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(Quote: "If you ran away, they sent private escorts after you to track you down, cuff you and bring you back."(Quote)
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Comment:
REAL boarding schools do not send escorts (sic) to HUNT down kids. They call the police who will search for the child and when found, give the child an opportunity to explain what's going on and call their parents. Bounty hunters just go get them and bring the "runaway" back to the compound.
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Someone refresh my memory. Is Boundary County, Idaho, the place where Ruby Ridge happened?
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Yes, it is. Northwest Academy and Acent are located on the same ridge. Scary, don't you think.
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id RATHER be behind bars than in one of those schools...its kinda funny how for example a murderer gets phones calls and gets visits from FRIENDS and family but yet an innocent teenager CAN NOT!!
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On 2004-02-06 23:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
Mom and dad aren't sending junior off to get fixed. They are each doing their own work to bring the family back together. What don't some of you understand about that?
Are you sure we're the ones missing something here? Maybe you're not accutely aware of it, but most of the people you're debating w/ are over the hill veterans of this industry.
We've been shootin' the shit and comparing notes on various levels through these forums and in real life for a number of years now. One thing I think most of us would agree on is that this "treatment" modality that you hope will bring your family back together again has a sorry track record for doing that.
You want to know what your family reunion will look like in 20 years? Just spend some time reading over these fora. We've been there and back again and, in our experience, the Program definitely did not have a positive impact on our family relations!
The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture
is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin
to understand me?
--O'Brien to Winston Smith
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On 2004-02-07 12:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
Another thing, someone said that 85% of high school students have tried drugs. Does that make it okay?
85% roughly AND this has been the case since we started keeping track in the early `70's AND the "epidemic of heroin overdose and addiction" forseuthed by Bobby Dupont and National Families in Action has failed to materialize.
All that taken together constitutes pretty damned compelling evidence of illicit drugs being far and away less harmful than the screeching "What about the chiiiiiiiilllllllldddrrrreeeeennnnnnn!?!?!?" crowd wants us all to believe.
A student burst into his office. "Professor Stigler, I don't believe I deserve this F you've given me." To which Stigler replied, "I agree, but unfortunately it is the lowest grade the University will allow me to award."
--Professor Stigler
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Mr. Hallam, you have my deepest respect and admiration. Thanks for all the detail. I don't know how you managed it, but you seem to have made it through without losing your mind at all.
Your telling of the story illustrates something I think is very important. There are some notable differences between the CEDU model and the Seed/Straight model.
For one, our parents were more directly involved in the Program. There were weekly or twice weekly open meetings; on 2nd phase of the program (couple of months in, usually) we'd either go home to live with our parents (who also had to meet certain criteria to be allowed to have us home) under Program rules and w/ higher phase Program clients to surveil and enforce the Program.
Our days were filled with endless rap sessions where we sat in straight rows of hard chairs, boys on one side of the room, girls on the other with a wide aisle between and facing staff at the front of the room. Work details were usually light work, like taking out trash, preparing meals, cleaning bathrooms. Usually, these "responsibilities" were handed out as rewards for compliance. In fact, there were levels between new newcomer and 2nd phase. Newcomers w/ talk got a 5 minute monitored conversation with their parents after open meeting. Newcomers w/ T&R (talk and responsibilities) could walk to the bathroom and food line w/o an oldcomer holding onto the back of their pants and could do some of these chores under direct, eyeball supervision of an oldcomer.
But the similarities in those essential elements of Program seem to have remained remarkably intact over the course of 3 decades and half a continent.
Straightlings, Seedlings and most KoNJ ppl will recognize the following.
On 2004-02-09 21:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
Even naming a restricted band resulted in punishment.
Ditto. Also, you couldn't use the term "man" slang. I believe "No druggie slang" was a stated rule, repeated at least twice a day at Rules Rap. And you couldn't use the "you" pronoun, only "I".
Severe dress codes were in effect, banning logos, any clothes with words on them, the color black, baggy clothes, suggestive clothes, jewelry, long hair in boys, hair dye, sideburns were limited, buzz-cuts, mohawks, shaved heads, all banned.
Ok, it my day, it was no tight jeans, no concert T-Shirts (Seed) no shirts with writing on them (Straight... except, of course, for those stooopid Izon LaCross golf shirts) No jewelry, except for a watch for 3rd phase and up (third phase was school or work) No long hair on boys, girls had to wear barrettes. Oh, and no flip-flops. Never did really understand that one.
Students recieved punishments for untucked shirts, unparted hair.
And, of course, any fashion detail not covered in the stated rules was subject to confrontation and conjecture by any staffer, parent, other client or the whole group. No one dared wear black, I don't think.
This was supposed to mbe to help keep the focus on emotional growth and to not hide behind an image, ...
Again, verbatim!
but was just an exercise in conformity, to forcing kids to adapt to the counselors demands. Speech patterns, suspicious nicknames, hand gestures, anything that couold be consedered image-driven, was banned. I was once banned from the library because rather than spend time moitoring other students for signs of dissent, I liked to read. Alone. I was banned from being alone. To discourage revolt. students were routinrly banned specifically from anyone they formed a close friendship with.
No cliquing. Also, without stating it outright, being alone was prohibited except when staff would order someone isolated in a "timeout" room. There were rules about never taking your eyes off a newcomer, and oldcomers nearly always had newcomers. There were rules about how many time a day or week you must call another client--"Dime Therapy", they called it. In order to advance through 4th phase, you had to spend your days off on "permissions". Permission were planned field trips into the real world in the company of other clients and at least one parent. They were compulsory and they had to be requested a week in advance in triplicate and approved (or not, usually w/o explanation) by Sr. Staff. No other activity was ever permitted. Parents would get confronted in parents' group after open meeting for stopping for gas w/ a phaser in the car (even their own kid) w/o checking it out w/ staff.
Any restriction (table, couch, pit, wherever) was met with automatic bans from younger levels of students who might be les brainwashed.
No newcomers talking to newcomers. One could become a "newcomer" again by edict of staff for anything or nothing. I've seen people started over from 4th phase (i.e. pretty damned close to the door) for having a "hard face" (absent that blissful, empty headed grin that became part of our uniform) and for refusing to divulge what staff deemed their real thoughts when confronted about it.
I was once accused of excessive masturbating, and forced to ask an older student or staff's permission to escort me to the bathroom and monitor my activity. The reason for this was because I spent a lot of time in the bathroom in order to just be alone. I was ridiculed, known thereafter by my peers as the "bathroom escort masturbator".
I can easily envision you (whatever you look like) being escorted to the guys' bathroom by an oldcomer in the warehouse on Cattleman Rd in Sarasota Florida. Same shit, different corporate logo.
Welcome to the club. I bet you do hook up w/ the necessary witnesses, legal talent and all the rest to bring suit. Please do bug your lawyer for any info that we can publish here and/or elsewhere.There lives more faith, in honest doubt,
Believe me, than in half the creeds.
Alfred Lord Tennyson
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I've always had a problem with people that get pets and then just disregard them when they no longer are pleasing to them.. for me getting a pet is a commitment for life - even for the ugly wart covered later years when then need lots of care and compassion...
how much more valuable are children? - even with their warts and imperfections- and how about our own?
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On 2004-02-05 20:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It all comes down to 2 simple reasons:
There is no excuse for abuse.
Children are not property. They can not be traded, sold or given away under the guise of "helping families heal".
"
All these bible-thumping teen helpers who think they have a "calling" to straighten out wayward teens should take a lesson from LOVING THEM TO DEATH. This is the legacy of your gospel of ignorance and denial.
http://outside.away.com/magazine/1095/10f_deth.html (http://outside.away.com/magazine/1095/10f_deth.html)
:flame:
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What ever happen to Cartisano? Has he been held accountable for his actions?
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~Parents who have a good relationship with their kids can usually get their kids back on the right track without the need for long-term placement. It's the parents who do not have a good relationship with their kids that are the prime candidates for these programs. ~
True. Absolutely. *But* when a kid gets into the kinds of problems drug use brings about, the previously good relationship goes bad. Quickly. Its not the parents fault.
~Remember, itis only the teenagers whose parents can afford private boarding school that get sen away. All other teenagers are allowed to tough out the rough years. Iwas one of those teenagers and so were my kids. My point is that we turned out great!!!!~
Good for you guys. I happen to have survived a lot of teenage indiscretions as well. Most of my friends did too. But some didn?t. Some died and some are in prison. I have a couple first cousins who are homeless street people thanks to drug addiction and no funds to pay for rehab. They?ve had the standard two weeks here and a month there - but it takes long term intervention to turn the tide on a problem this serious, and the money wasn?t there. Its really is so sad. One has pretty much vanished. No one has any idea where he is or if he?s still alive. The other is herd from on occasion, tho few and far between. He showed up for GranMa?s funeral. He was filthy and stunk very badly and looked so sad and ashamed. He is such a sweet guy. Smart, good natured and soft hearted; but seriously strung out.
I saw my son heading down that road. I had come into some money. Are you saying I should have let him go his ?merry way? and hoped for the best?
If so, then I disagree. I wish the One teen program didn't exist; and those that are like it; but that there is a true need for teen rehab programs is in my mind beyond doubt.
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I have started a campaign to help the Teen Help Industry. You guys are my poster boys. You are the reason why there are teen help programs. This country is scared to death of people like you, and this is why they are doing what they can to help the up and coming generation.
You may be beyond help (I would debate that you are not) and many people see you as the next Jeffrey Dalhmeir, or the next Scott Patterson. You are scaring people into going to drastic levels to help the next generation.
Everytime you write your vile on this forum you give more reason to for those behind the Teen Help Industry to continue to grow and expand. You give parents more reason to send their son or daughter to a program because they certainly dont want their child to turn out to be like you!
Keep up the good work poster boy!
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On 2004-03-29 08:49:00, Word of Wisdom wrote:
"I have started a campaign to help the Teen Help Industry. You guys are my poster boys. You are the reason why there are teen help programs. This country is scared to death of people like you, and this is why they are doing what they can to help the up and coming generation.
You may be beyond help (I would debate that you are not) and many people see you as the next Jeffrey Dalhmeir, or the next Scott Patterson. You are scaring people into going to drastic levels to help the next generation.
Everytime you write your vile on this forum you give more reason to for those behind the Teen Help Industry to continue to grow and expand. You give parents more reason to send their son or daughter to a program because they certainly dont want their child to turn out to be like you!
Keep up the good work poster boy!"
Can the "teen help" industry come up with a program that would successfully teach you to spell and use proper grammar?
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According to this news article, back in the late 90's early 2000, Carisano was apparently involved with 2 now-defunct programs in the South Pacific.
http://www.starbulletin.com/1999/09/29/ ... .html#jump (http://www.starbulletin.com/1999/09/29/news/story2.html#jump)
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On 2004-03-29 08:20:00, Anonymous wrote:
"~Parents who have a good relationship with their kids can usually get their kids back on the right track without the need for long-term placement. It's the parents who do not have a good relationship with their kids that are the prime candidates for these programs. ~
True. Absolutely. *But* when a kid gets into the kinds of problems drug use brings about, the previously good relationship goes bad. Quickly. Its not the parents fault.
~Remember, itis only the teenagers whose parents can afford private boarding school that get sen away. All other teenagers are allowed to tough out the rough years. Iwas one of those teenagers and so were my kids. My point is that we turned out great!!!!~
Good for you guys. I happen to have survived a lot of teenage indiscretions as well. Most of my friends did too. But some didn?t. Some died and some are in prison. I have a couple first cousins who are homeless street people thanks to drug addiction and no funds to pay for rehab. They?ve had the standard two weeks here and a month there - but it takes long term intervention to turn the tide on a problem this serious, and the money wasn?t there. Its really is so sad. One has pretty much vanished. No one has any idea where he is or if he?s still alive. The other is herd from on occasion, tho few and far between. He showed up for GranMa?s funeral. He was filthy and stunk very badly and looked so sad and ashamed. He is such a sweet guy. Smart, good natured and soft hearted; but seriously strung out.
I saw my son heading down that road. I had come into some money. Are you saying I should have let him go his ?merry way? and hoped for the best?
If so, then I disagree. I wish the One teen program didn't exist; and those that are like it; but that there is a true need for teen rehab programs is in my mind beyond doubt."
God Damn It, Karen .... quit posting as Anon. What are you afraid of, getting sued for spreading your gospel of ignorance and denial?
:rofl:
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You need to whip their fucking asses in the name of the Lord, dammit!
_________________
Honk if you take it up the ass for Jesus!
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Yes, Karen needs to start claiming her posts instead of pretending she is not part of the Troubled Parents R Us Industry.
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***They call the police who will search for the child and when found, give the child an opportunity to explain what's going on and call their parents. Bounty hunters just go get them and bring the "runaway" back to the compound.***
That would be nice, but since so many of these warehouses are in podunk towns, they have special arrangements with local law enforcement. They have convinced them that the teens are lying manipulators and if found should be brought back immediately.
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They ARE lying manipulators. They're on DRUGS. Hello... :roll:
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On 2004-03-29 11:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
Good for you guys. I happen to have survived a lot of teenage indiscretions as well. Most of my friends did too. But some didn?t. Some died and some are in prison.
The same can be said of Program kids, only backward. Some of the people I knew in The Seed and Straight made it through w/o a lot of serious problems. Most didn't. Most still have nightmares, frigid relations w/ their families of origin and other problems. Of course, I'm only talking about the ones who are alive and not in prison these days.
Those poor suckers who didn't get blessed help from the Program have not had those problems.
A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace.
James Madison, The Federalist No. 46
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But Ginger; you were in the worst of the worst. Beyond belife bad.
Even bad programs aren't that bad.
There Are good programs. . .
And if there were real consequences to operating a bad program, there'd be a lot less of them. . .
As I recall, you weren't ever really in trouble; but lets pretend you where; Do you not think it possible, had you been in a different setting; a good program; you might not have the stories of alumni coming to such a bad end; and you might be greatful for the help you got?
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A fellow anon writes:
>>> Karen .... quit posting as Anon. What are you afraid of, getting sued<<<
Well Pal, you gotta lot a room ta tawk.
But Yes,
And, you know who to thank.
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i went to CEDU and i totally agree of 12 group member we have only 5 left the rest killed themselves after graduationg CEDU. CEDU is hell
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um i ran from cedu and i never drank or did drugs i was adopted and a shit head with a bad fucking mouth so dont talk about shit u know nothing about and bounty hunter came to get me and shakled me like a common criminal you fuck head it was horrible and i did nothing u moron
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can i sue?
Posted: 2004-02-09 07:30:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is a serious inquiry.
I want to know if there is any hope of settling a lawsuit against CEDU school.
I am not a money-grubber, just a concerned ex-student who wants to see CEDU take it where it hurts, their wallet.
Let me explain.
I attended CEDU high school, California for nearly three years.
The years in question were 1995-1997.
During that time, I experience uncountable atrocities, abuses and brainwashings.
I completed the full program, including every single profeet they have to offer, finishing with their week-long summit workshop.
I graduated their program thanks to having a stubborn mother who ignored my constant tearful pleas to remove me from the program. She was under advisement from the staff to ignore all my requests, and dismiss my claims as lies. She continued to do so even after I advanced in the program and was no longer monitored on phone calls. She was lied to. Even today, when I tell her that everything I ever told her was true, and that I have nothing to gain by telling her that now, she goes white-faced and silent and tells me she does not want to talk about it.
During my stay at CEDU, I was placed on a "table restriction" for an entire month. This remains the longest restriction I have ever known anyone to have been on. I sat on a hard wooden bench, no cushioning, in the dining room to face the ridicule of my peers. Every night I got the hardest, dirtiest, nastiest washroom jobs possible. By day I labored in freezing conditions, clearing a "nature trail" a good four miles of deep woods trail blanketed by two feet of solid snow and ice. I did this even though it was the dead of winter and no one bothered to go on the trail. On another "work assignment", I dug a rain-trench and hauled rocks across campus by wheelbarrow (saving the school contracting fees to get it done professionally) in the hot summer sun while "good" kids got to lay on blankets on the grass, play guitar and eat candy and watch me work. To add insult to injury, while I walked by counselors would lean over the balcony and yell at me to move faster while kids laughed, watching me try to run with a wheelbarrow full of rocks. I hauled buckets of them to landscape a tiny, dirt-filled pavilion observable when walking into the dining hall, in preparation for parent visits, to help make things pretty. During this assignment I dislocated my wrist, and for weeks was unable to even lift my notebook for school. This did not stop them. Collapsing into bed that first night after dislocation, I was awake all night crying because I thought my wrist was broken. They ridiculed me when I reported it, refusing to stop making me work, also refusing me pain medication (thought I might like it, maybe)
During sporting events, I was forced into a swimming pool on a rainy, forty degree day. The water was so cold my leg cramped up and I couldn't walk without a limp for months. In fact for up to a year afterward, whenever I went for a walk the pain would return. Nevertheless, they continued to force me to train for their wilderness trip. "Training" consisted of forcibly running three miles, three times a week plus sprinting in the parking lot and up a seventy degree angled hill (the hill to the "non potable water supply" cedu students will know what I mean). The trip itself was two weeks of hell. I was forced to hike no less than ten miles a day for the first week. At the end of the first day, due to equipment malfunction, (cheap thirty year old frame packs can't distribute weight well) I reported that my feet were masses of blisters. I was told "pad em up, move em out", and had to walk on them while they burst unter my weight, causing excruciating pain. It felt like walking on hot coals all day. I was not allowed to rest them, let alone stop the trip. One of my friends accidentally spilled boiling water on his leg, causing second degree burns. He was not allowed to leave the trip either, let alone have the injuries medically treated. Within a couple days, his blistered legs were draining a large amount of foul-smelling, pus-like discharge. He still went untreated, having to clean the wounds in dirty, parasite-filled streams which we couldn't even drink without chemically treating. Staff did not care. Another trip I wasn't on had their packs mauled by bears in the night who ate most of their already meager food. During my four days of forced isolation on the trip, I was given water, a bag of granola and two cereal bars a day. I was not allowed to take any other food. I slept on the ground under a tarp with no sides, despite nearly stepping on a rattlesnake two days earlier. We were so deep in the wilderness that I observed a wild wolf drink from the stream a few feet from where I sat. A full-grown bear charged down the hill ten feet away from me, chasing what I never knew. Thank god he didn't see me, or I would be another casualty. I was later told we were constantly monitored by counselors, but I never saw them.
Due to my alleged noncompliance with the program, I had to repeat this wilderness event two more times. Most students only do it once, and consider it the hardest thing they ever do. I did it three times. At the end of each time, I had to complete a nine mile run on the desert sun with no rest stops. The third trip I refused, due to the masses of blisters on my feet. Returning to school, I had a table restriction waiting. On my longest restriction, I completed at least a hundred full pages, front and back, of "writing assignment", intense personal information that I had to leave on my table at all times. Several times I would return from work assignments to find untrained staff or students reading them without my permission. If the counselors thought they weren't personal enough, they would tear them out and throw them away and make me rewrite them. During raps I was screamed at in front of other students about my personal issues by both counselors and students. In fact, untrained, unschooled student peers were regularly allowed to assist in working with other students on emotional growth issues. To encourage this, students would get punished, by which I mean more work, if they did not confront at least two students per rap on meaningful issues during the first few months of stay.
Also because of my so-called noncompliance, which really meant I observed no signs of brainwashing yet, having not learned to do everything everyone told me without question, I was dropped not one but two peer groups, each time extending my potential stay by six months. I would have had to watch my friends graduate without me, but there were so many runaways that they had to combine all three peer groups into one just to have enough to keep them going. I was told they would keep doing this until I complied. When I observed that I would eventually become 18 and be allowed to leave, they countered that they would get my mom to sign a paper saying I was incompetent to be a legal adult. I don't even know if this is possible, but by then was so mentally exhausted I believed it. I was verbally abused, sworn at, physically threatened. Phone calls were monitored in case I told my parents what was really going on, and limited to fifteen minutes every two weeks. Letters were read before sent, and only allowed if they met standards, which meant they could not contain pleas to leave. This would be considered not working with the program. Incoming letters were opened without permission and read before I ever recieved them, any offending material removed. If any gifts were sent by sympathetic family members, they were confiscated and kept by staff. Letters were restricted to family members only. Sex was not allowed, smoking was not allowed, even by 18 year old adults. Nearly all forms of music were banned. Even naming a restricted band resulted in punishment. Severe dress codes were in effect, banning logos, any clothes with words on them, the color black, baggy clothes, suggestive clothes, jewelry, long hair in boys, hair dye, sideburns were limited, buzz-cuts, mohawks, shaved heads, all banned. Students recieved punishments for untucked shirts, unparted hair. This was supposed to mbe to help keep the focus on emotional growth and to not hide behind an image, but was just an exercise in conformity, to forcing kids to adapt to the counselors demands. Speech patterns, suspicious nicknames, hand gestures, anything that couold be consedered image-driven, was banned. I was once banned from the library because rather than spend time moitoring other students for signs of dissent, I liked to read. Alone. I was banned from being alone. To discourage revolt. students were routinrly banned specifically from anyone they formed a close friendship with. Any restriction (table, couch, pit, wherever) was met with automatic bans from younger levels of students who might be les brainwashed. I was once accused of excessive masturbating, and forced to ask an older student or staff's permission to escort me to the bathroom and monitor my activity. The reason for this was because I spent a lot of time in the bathroom in order to just be alone. I was ridiculed, known thereafter by my peers as the "bathroom escort masturbator". We were contstantly punished if we ate more than a small amount of food, being accused of not letting others have their share, or "scarcity". If found guilty, plates would have to pass staff inspection. All the students were very thin, which was good for parents who liked to see improving body images, and mistook starvation for health. On parent visits, cooks would prepare more expenive and better quality food to promote the illuson we were eating well. On one occasion the entire school got food poisoning and spent two days suffering from uncontrollable vomiting and diarrhea, often at the same time, as well as severe dehydration to the point of delirium. I personally remember speding the night crying and confused, my entire dorm (and every other) literally taking turns in the bathroom puking and shitting. At one point I passed out on the toilet and had to be awakened by a roommate who needed the bathroom. My roommated would talk to themelves, laugh at nothing and sing songs at the top of their lungs all night. I remember discovering that my blanket was all balled up and crying out loud because in my confusion I did not know how to straighten it out. I could hear crying coming from other dorms. I know I cried out loud a lot of times. Immediately after supper that first night,the first one to get sick went to the doctor. When the doctor suspected the cause might be a food-borne organism, the student was returned to school. No further students were permitted to seek medical attention, even though 95% got life-threateningly sick. I could not keep down fluid, I just kept throwing it back up again. I should have gotten an IV, but they wouldn't allow it. To this day I am amazed no one died. The next morning, staff told everyone NOT TO DRINK THE WATER!! I remember crying because I wanted water so badly. The staff insisted that the illness was in the water, and no one was to drink it. They said a truck was to come with bottle water. It never did. I was given one can of seven-up, which I could not keep down. Most students were too weak to get out of bed. Still, staff continued to insist it was "something in the water", and that we were to tell that to our parents if they asked. In a couple of days, they declared the water "treated" and forgot the incident. No one ever came to investigate our water supply, which came from an isolated tank on campus and could have been easily tested. It wasn't. I know this because we were forced to limit out showers to five minutes per person per day, on grounds that we might deplete the water supply. Not taking one shower a day was grounds for punishment also. In addition to all these rules and restrictions, staff could make up new ones on a whim. One staff placed a student on work assignments for asking if he was gay. Another put a kid on a whole week of dishes for "disagreeing". Parents would come up on designated days for the whole school, or had to request a visit in advance so the pleace could be "prepared" for them. Events never offered otherwise were trotted out for parents. Counselors would smile and mess up students hair.
It was sickening. The parents would go through their own profeets, except they would take place in comfy resort hotels. I had the opportunity to observe a part of one on one occasion. It was nothing more than a baby meditation exercise where the parents "went back to childhood" together and were told everything was okay. Then they gave each other hugs. They didn't even have to experience sleep deprivation. Yet they were told that they too had experienced the profeet, so they could see what we went through and get to bond about it with us. On the other hand, we were told that if we thought we were going to fall asleep, we should stand behind our chairs to stay awake all night. Same thing? You decide.
All of this and so much more it would take a whole book to write it all happened directly to me. These are not just stories. The stories I heard, about CEDU, Ascent, RMA, Suws and other such places could fill a book of their own, but I can't account for their validity. These things I wrote about I can, because I experienced them personally.
So does anyone here think I have grounds to sue the school, or do you think they have some kind of legal loopholes in place to avoid it. See, even now I am still paranoid that they'll get the upper hand. For months after I graduated, I suffered nightly nightmares that I had been enrolled again, or had to start over. I woke from those sweating and in terror. I understood what vietnam vets mean by flashback. The whole thing felt like POW camp. If you ran away, they sent private escorts after you to track you down, cuff you and bring you back. One kid made it to Germany and was still found. Others disappeared and their parents never heard from them again. IF they were 18, their parents were encouraged to disown them and not support them in any way. I saw several parents tell their kid to their face they would do this.
If anyone knows anything about suing, wants to, is trying, has tried, please let me know.
If anyone remembers any of these incidents, or has stories from CEDU or other schools, let me know. I am writing a book on the subject and may include other people's stories.
If anyone just wants to commiserate, I am available.
My e-mail is [email protected]
P.S. to Mark Waitt, Alyx Thorson, Joe Csapo and Anthony Musso- if you are alive and read this, please write me. They never let me contact you.
Jake Hallam
survivor
R.I.P. Heather Woods
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one of those people who got spit out
was a little girl who commited suicide after Ced still too young to drive, Must have left the house to see her freinds 3 dozen times in her entire life. Kiidnapping little kids and torturing them for a year with the assistance of cops and politicians is hardly something that is an inevitbale fact of life.
Its quite easy to go through life without being kidnapped and tortured by insane cults
This is the utterly unecessary and easily avoided murder of innocent helpless creatures and this blase attitude (however unintentional dishonours them)
yes lets sue Ill contact u guys soon
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But Ginger; you were in the worst of the worst. Beyond belife bad.
Even bad programs aren't that bad.
There Are good programs. . .
And if there were real consequences to operating a bad program, there'd be a lot less of them. . .
As I recall, you weren't ever really in trouble; but lets pretend you where; Do you not think it possible, had you been in a different setting; a good program; you might not have the stories of alumni coming to such a bad end; and you might be greatful for the help you got?
Nice vacuously fallacious load of shit there...
No, really. I can't find a nice way to describe what a load of crap there is. Relativistic nonsense like "even bad programs are not that bad?"
Huh?
There is no such thing as a good program! A 'program' is a place that takes kids because their parents pay the program money, not becuase they need anything... they don't treat them either, just make them complete a level-system and emotional growth nonsense, and spit out a stepford kid.
Actual therapy is OFFERED, not forced, and only when necessary... not because an ed-CON and someone with more money than brains said so.
All of this talk of forced help is a load of shit. No program is set up to handle someone who needs to be put somewhere to protect them self from them self or from others (note how programs end to kick those kids out... or in WWASPS case send them to Jamaica?) so that argument falls on its face anyway... as does the whole "exit plan". Funny how the argument makes a 180* about face when the kid has rights again, and its about loving/respecting/appreciating the parent, not the kid needing a damn thing, huh?
Can the sophistry, buddy. Bullshit is bullshit no matter how hard you try to polish it.
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BUMP
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bump
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The teen hurt industry should be abolished simply because teens need the flexibility to work through the difficulties of adolescence so they can become "real" adults -- and not become Stepford-kids or Stepford-adults.
Our country has enough sheep. The world at large has enough sheep. Our founding fathers were not sheep...and neither are the modern-day visionaries who keep us in the game. They are not just bricks in the wall.
"Hey, teacher, leave them kids alone."
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If all you see is sheep, become a herder...
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If all you see is sheep, become a herder...
Over-rated job.
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Perhaps "sheep" is a bit harsh, but I don't know what else to call people who accept the status quo, always follow their leaders and never rock the boat.
I never wanted to be a shepherd any more than I wanted to be a sheep.
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bump
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If all you see is sheep, become a herder...
Over-rated job.
:rofl:
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(http://http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b385/JosephJoeyJoe/Picard.gif)
Yo' this is how we roll in St. Louis.
Kid steps up we cut him down.