Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

My oldcomer tried to kill himself right after he graduated his program. He hadn't gone back to using drugs or hanging with his old friends or any of the usual seed-defined behaviours that might have caused one on their program to get started over.

Instead of slashing his wrists, one night he simply veered his car into the left lane and into an oncoming truck. He readily admitted that this was no accident, bur rather an attempted suicide. Amazingly, he survived this head-on collision on a highway near miami.

I think this sort of thing is much more common than many might believe among seed graduates. Since it reflected badly upon the seed, such cases were not spoken of openly.

I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that this policy simply changed over time. Lots of things did this. I was on the program from april 76 to april 77. I heard the same thing about payment that robin described. However, when I called a few years later, this policy had apparently changed. There was no misunderstanding. Libby was very clear on the point.

Lots of groups start out with good intentions and high ideals only to lose their way at some point. I recall looking at newspaper clippings on the wall in staff's office when I spent the night 'guarding the seed' on 84. There were pictures and articles about the seed from the early days. In one picture, there were lots of guys with long hair and not just on the front row. The dress code also looked pretty liberal. I was especially surprised by one article that stated that most seed kids were of the opinion that pot should be legalized!

This point of view was anathema by the time I was in. Art repeatedly made this plain and sharply criticized Jimmy Carter (who was running for president) for being for decriminalizing marijuana. To read that seed kids would tell a newspaper reporter that they supported legalizing pot was amazing. If we'd said something like that it would have been grounds for a big 'telling you where you're at' stand up or maybe even a reason to start your program over.

The same with guys with long hair or dressing in such a way that was not acceptable to staff. This all changed over the years. I was able to profit from the 'deconditioning' part of the seed. My issue was and is with the 'reconditioning' part. We dropped druggie images and adopted specific seed images. We didn't care what our druggie friends thought of us...but cared enormously what art, staff and fellow seedlings thought. It was still acceptance.

Being straight came to be identical with acting in certain prescribed ways. Having certain hair cuts, clothes. We were to avoid using specific druggie code words but were encouraged to use approved seed lingo. We were told to be ourselves, but their reprogramming resulted in cookie cutter people lacking in individuality to a great degree. There was a certain degree of awareness that resulted from all of this. But even this was a warped sort of awareness. I was always very mindful of any actions or thoughts that might be at odds with the 'party line' of the seed. Living in a totalitarian state, one is also very 'aware' of not saying or doing anything that would put you in the gulag or cause you to be an outcaste. Unfortunately, questioning the seed ideology was strongly discouraged and this itself tended to limit real growth. Luckily, I was eventually able to see and make use of the good while discarding the bad or useless. If the seed had stayed closer to it's AA roots without all the cultic trappings, I would likely consider it a positive experience to this day. From my pov now, the negatives outweighed the positives.

Reading minds? Yeah, I had forgotten about that. Does anyone remember art and staff talking about being able to see colored auras around people? I often saw auras BEFORE I went to the seed. Acid tends to do that. :silly:  

A couple of years after I graduated my program, a friend wanted to put her son into the seed. She was in her late fifties and a single working mother. Her 14 year old son was having lots of attitude problems, minor trouble with the law, drinking and smoking some pot. She knew about the seed from my experience and asked me to call them about putting her son on the program. The only problem was money. She was a factory worker with very limited means. I assured her that money woudn't be an issue. (I had yet to sort out my own feelings about the seed and still had a rosey view of the program in many ways) Surely the seed wouldn't disqualify anyone for lack of funds.

 I called and spoke with Libby. I explained my friends situation fully and suggested that she would be able to make a down payment and then make payments for her son to enter the program. I was shocked by Libby's response. Libby flatly refused to take her son without full payment up front. I think it was $5,000 at that time. There was no way this lady could get that kind of money.

Looking back, I consider this fortunate for her son. He grew up, married, had kids, quit drugs and rarely even drinks a beer. But this really caused me to further question the seed. It seems that money was a primary motivation.

29 years ago next april 5.

Are you sure the guy you are thinking of was named Clay? It sure sounds a lot like Cliff. John U. married a gal named Pam, who was also staff.

I've had lots of seed nightmares over the years too. The worst one was the night several months ago when I first discovered this forum. Reading all the posts here caused nightmares about seed and seed staff all night long. I woke up exhausted and shaken. Brought back bad memories I suppose.

I was ordered by the court to go to the seed or face 5 years in prison for selling  acid. I had already served 4 months in an adult prison at age 17.  I had a large collection of several hundred lp's when I went into the seed.  An oldcomer told me that all of my albums were old ties to my druggie past and I should get rid of them. For the first few months, I really tried to accept and believe in the seed ideology, so after some thought I decided he was right. I asked the oldcomer what I should do with them...figuring I should throw them away so that no-one else would become infected with this vile rock music. He offered to dispose of them for me.  A few months later, this oldcomer graduated his program and headed back home to new england. As I was saying my goodbye's, he opened his trunk to put in a suitcase. There in his trunk were every single one of my albums. He explained that they were only old ties to me, not to him. Lots of Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, etc.  
For the first 3 or 4 months I was gung-ho, really immersing myself into being the best seedling I could be and relating alot in group.  Afterall, with prison hanging over my head I had strong motivation for staying. I had never been one to blindly accept or believe and eventually I began to question certain aspects of the seed program.  I began to see certain flaws in the program, chinks in their beliefsystem...many of which greg and others have brought to light here. This caused considerable pain and conflict. I stopped relating in group and began to feel that I had to somehow fake my way through this ordeal in order to avoid prison.
I too sensed the cult-like qualities in the group...the unquestioning reverence for art and staff. We had raps on how we were all 'meant to be here' at the seed. As if 'we' were the chosen few...chosen to save the world. Definite messianic / megalomaniacal overtones.  Though speaking of loving everyone, a certain nasty hostility came out when staff spoke of 'druggie assholes'.  Ginger once said she and her druggie friends 'should have been lined up on a wall and shot.'  
We spoke of getting rid of our druggie images...but no one ever seemed to realize we were simply exchanging druggie images for equally fake 'straight' images. The girls had to cultivate a specific 'seedling' look in clothing  and guys had to have really short hair and no facial hair. Rock music was routinely trashed because it was the product of a 'bunch of druggie assholes' and we were encouraged to embrace frank sinatra and art's choice of music instead. Being 'straight' meant projecting very specific, seed-approved images.  
I spent over a year on the program. All during the program I kept hearing how I would look back upon my time at the seed as the happiest of my life.  I'm 45 now and I regard it instead as one of, if not THE worst time of my entire life.  Thanks for this forum.  It's helped to clarify issues that I've mulled over off & on for many decades.