Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Bagelnosh employee. There may have been other seedlings that worked there before me, but only one was there when I started. The guy's name finally popped into mind. Since his last name is so....unusual...I'll give that. The guy's name was Horney. When I quit, I referred another seedling and they hired him. He was a tall, blonde quiet man...don't remember the name...yet.

Oldcomer. His first name was Don. From miami (technically hialeah). Lost touch with him in the mid 80's. Last I talked with him, he was happily married and working at a tofu factory in n.y. state.

No, F.L., I don't recall the scuba lessons. Since I was 17 when I first started the program I lived with foster families until after I turned 18. So it may have been before I lived at the apts. And no, didn't work at mother butler's. I remember several seedlings worked there though. I did work at Bagel Nosh for a few months. I remember the general atmosphere at the guy's apartments was much different than any of the foster families that I stayed with. It was much looser or easy going. For example, we commonly 'rocked-out' and listened to any music that we wanted to with no criticism....even around newcomers. Lakes mall had several theaters, right?

Raps. I've always wondered why some hippy words were ok to use at the seed and others weren't. Man, like, chick (seems very sexist). And robert seemed to get away with using even more racey or 'cool' language. I suspect this again goes back to what art considered ok. I recall art using some beatnik era lingo. He was always saying something was a gas.

But cool...that was a definite no no. Along with far-out, right-on or out of sight (this was early 70's). Music by all those mafioso, alcohol-drinking and pot smoking jazz and swing musicians was ok...because art liked it. Music by led zeppelin or pink floyd was not ok...a bunch of druggie assholes...is the way libby described led zeppelin when someone requested that a guy playing guitar in the group play stairway to heaven. I remember the guilt I felt the first time I put on some headphones and listened to Yes while an oldcomer. Listening to non-approved rock was 'rocking out'...like thinking non-approved thoughts was 'getting into your head' or philosophizing or if you questioned the inconsistency of any seed concept..you were just analyzing. All standard mind-control techniques. Thinking back on it, I'm not even sure that staff would have denied that it was all brainwashing or mindcontrol. It was too obvious. I think they just figured it was for a higher purpose...the ends justify the means.

Anon, not sure if this was directed toward me. If so; Crimes... that's a hard one. Jaywalking maybe? I was stopped for speeding twice in the pst 30 years too. Drugs...caffeine (sorry mormons) and very occasional alcohol. I bought a 12 pack of beer about 3 months ago and have 4 left. A glass, maybe 2 of wine with dinner once or twice per week. I did smoke pot once about 11 years ago just out of curiosity. I found much of what I was looking for via drugs by taking up meditation. A practice the seed discouraged.

It has nothing to do with taking responsibility. The girl was older than I. She was from atlanta and had used way more drugs including taking acid many times. I didn't sell it to her (that was to a classmate) she asked me for it. Of course I am responsible, and she was also responsible. We were both kids. How many of us sold drugs or gave them to our friends? How many of us got caught and served time for it? Did I deserve prison more than those who didn't get caught? Am I more accountable or responsible because I did?

I have not smoked cigarettes since I was 19. I am against their use. I think they are harmful and responsible for more disease and death than all illegal drugs combined. But I do not think they should be made illegal. I don't think those using or selling them should be imprisoned. (The head of the DEA made a statement a few years ago to John Stossel of ABC suggesting that he thought it was just a matter of time before tobacco becomes illegal) How many of us have given a cigarette to a friend? Shouldn't we also be held responsible for this?

Many of the people I love smoke. I do not want them to be imprisoned either. Nor would I wish for them to be subjected to a seed-like program to break their habit. My feelings about drugs are the same. The way to deal with the issue is not imprisonment or coercive mind control. I was wrong to give her acid but the government was even more wrong (imo) for throwing a kid into prison for it.

Cliff (staff member) once stated that it (our higher power) could be that 'lightbulb' over there. I clearly recall this because Robert (another staff member) later angrily disagreed with that statement. A rare thing in itself, since staff never seemed to disagree on anything of significance.

In fairness, I think cliff's point was that you didn't have to conform to some specific idea of god or diety. That you could believe in allah or yahweh or brahma, etc. The seed wasn't trying to impose a particular religion on members. The seed itself became a sort of defacto religion for many however.

I would simply try to be a friend to that person and listen to his concerns with an open heart  The serious trouble that I was in was of a legal sort. If I were living during the prohibition years and had been arrested for selling bathtub gin or illegal whiskey it would have been a similar type of trouble. I use no illegal drugs but I am opposed to the nation's drug laws. Prohibition does not work and creates more harm in it's attempt to alleviate drug use. I don't know that I needed any specific help other than being allowed to be a typical teenager, testing limits, rebeling and growing up without being subjected to adult prison and a mind control cult at 17. My best guess is that I would have outgrown my fascination with drugs...just as I've witnessed countless other teens pass thru this phase to go on to live happy, productive lives.