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Messages - Blopa
Pages: [1]
1
« on: October 01, 2001, 07:56:13 PM »
Re: Struggling Teens made me sick to my stomach.
OK, suppose now that you have your own teens and they behave like my 17 years son does: smokes pot all the time every day, skips school, gets kicked out of schools, breaks curfew, screams insults at me, refuses to be drug tested, steals money from us, punches walls and windows, gets traffic tickets for doing 145 on a 65 mph hway, lies. What would you do? I honestly ask that question because I did place him in a 'facility' out of desperation. I can use your advice on how to help him get healthy and, ultimately, keep him alive and drug free (from cocaine, pot, alcohol, acid and ecstacy, all of which he did when he was out).
2
« on: October 01, 2001, 04:23:21 PM »
Re: You just don't get it do ya??.......
Ken, I do not doubt that what you describe is true to the program you 'attended' (Straight), but I clearly established some differences between what you and others describe as taking place in Straight that DOES NOT match what goes on on GT.
Do you know what goes on on GT?
You keep insisting (and you are right) of how horrible the practices of the place you know, are. But I am not talking about that place, since I have no direct knowledge of anything they did there. I am not talking about Straight.
I do see similarities. I also see fundamental differences precisely about the things I see you 'complaint' the most. Again, they do not lock people in isolation (alone or in groups), they do not sit on people hurting them, do do not deny anyone the use of the phone to call for help, they do not put them in ridiculous diets, they do not deprive them of food or sleep. All this differences I know first hand and that is why I can talk about it. They don't mean anything to you?
BTW you still do not offer an alternative treatement.
Ken, I am not interested in winning any argument with you, prove you wrong, etc. as I understand you are only trying to help me and my kid. It just surprises me that you refer to GT as if was a copy of Straight. You know Straight, you do not not GT and you ignore the differences I point out to you.
3
« on: October 01, 2001, 02:42:52 PM »
Re: Dear old uncle Joe
Thank you very much all for your interest in helping my son and I. I am not in anyway downplaying what you been through (and still are) and I know you do not have any secret agenda as you have nothing to win or lose by sharing on your traumatic experience. After clearly establishing that I will discuss the present situation that started this Topic. The first thing that comes to mind is that several of the most openly troubling practices of Straight are absent on the practice at GT: special diet, food and sleep deprivation, isolation (not access to Children and Family or police by phone), kids locked with key on bedrooms. Those I know to be true as I saw first hand while fostering out (visiting host family houses with the kids there). Other things I was told by kids and parents is that they do not sit on kids, they are never locked alone, they are not insulted, spited at or humiliated screaming at their faces, etc.
Another issue, central to the big picture, is the brain washing. In principle, I am personally against all forms of brain washing. The caveat is that my son (and probably most people with self-destructive behavior) have already been brain washed and that is why they are actively seeking to kill themselves (and others) by abusing drugs, breathing AC gases (freon?) and other toxics that are known to destroy brain cells and terminate their lives at different paces. Or by driving at very fast speed while high or drunk, etc.
So the starting point of this treatment is not a happy Kids that is having a safe life. We started with a kid that was way on his way to kill himself and maybe others. We did not chose to disrupt a life, our aim is to get him to stop killing himself. Now, it is not an easy job to have someone abandon his most precious and valued beliefs: the entire drug culture, self mutilation and destruction, complete contempt for all the rules (right or wrong) that make his existence in the community possible, his absolute repudiation for any advice or even possibility of having a normal life (work, earn a living, stay sober and do whatever you chose to do with your life within the boundaries of the law).
How do you change all that without washing the Kid's mind? I am speaking from my mind and for myself as no one in any of the treatment centers we visited (including GT) ever admitting to resorting to brain washing. But I think that some sort of serious re-programming of the mind (aka brain washing) would have to take place to make such a radical change in someone concepts, thinking process, feeling process, etc. I know that simply talking to that person does not suffice. We tried that, we used psychologists, psychiatrists, medication, outpatient therapy, church, gifts, contracts, treats, you names. While doing all these, our son kept running in the opposite direction at an increased speed, doing more drugs, hanging out with very dangerous characters, getting in fights, cursing and screaming at us, breaking things, closing his mind more and more.
I do not think that we could just sit on the side hoping that he will get better by himself, as he was going to kill himself, possible others including us. It was impossible to talk with him about anything. He was deeply sad, even suicidal. He was stealing from us. This is the scene in most homes of troubled teenagers of the other parents we spoke with. So, with all honesty, what is there to do for a parent in this predicament? Is easy to blame the medicine at hand, but is there any other REALISTIC medicine? As ugly as it sounds, I think that you have to de-program and re-program the patient's mind to get them out of that rut. It sounds horrible, but what is the REALISTIC alternative. The person in on an accelerated path of self-destruction as thousands do die every year from this disease, drug abuse, suicide, etc. Talking won't do it since he would not listen, therapy as outpatient did not work either. Eckerd Youth Alternatives worked, but for a year or so. COPAC threw him out. La Amistad was a mad-house that he hated. South Miami Drug Rehab Center could not work with him. What else to try? Do I give up on him? And he is not seating still waiting for us to find a good solution, he is trying to kill himself with the drug use, etc. while we think and consider the alternatives. What will you do in such a case?
He will have to unlearn a lot of crap he learned, change his taste in music, friends, thought process, motivation, decency, etc. How in the world do you achieve all that?
I wish there was a pill he could take and get well, a book he could read or some magic words that someone can spell and make such fundamental changes as he needs to make to stay alive. Short of that, I think that some serious reprogramming of the mind would have to take place and I am surely no expert to judge and decide what it would entail. In the meantime I am glad he is safe and seems to be making progress.
Worse case, if he survives this treatment and will take him (as you say) 15 years to get right again, that implies that we will be alive 15 years from now, and that is good news. It certainly beats the alternative.
Those are my considerations at this time.
Regarding allegations of abuse (I just read your posting), no, I do not have anything more than allegations and it will be very easy to convince me otherwise: I you know any case that resulted on a conviction against GT, and you care to, please give me the case number, decision on the case, judge,etc. I will research such case/cases. So far I found none.
Thanks again. Edited by: Blopa at: 10/22/01 1:08:34 pm
4
« on: October 01, 2001, 10:09:28 AM »
Re: Growing Together of Lake Worth, Florida
Thank you all for your info, comments and concerns regarding the issue I brought up. I believe you and know that you have been traumatized and abused by those programs. Since I posted the initial message I did quite a bit of research into the specific program where my son is. There are many differences between what you honestly describe and GT and I think I made the mistake of 'guessing' early on that GT was a Straight or Straight-like program. I had the chance to talk to my son one on one and all his complaints where that he is not allowed to smoke cigarettes, that he does not like the food (he put 15 pounds and 2 pants sizes), that one night he was not allowed to bathe and wash his clothes because his oldcomer was tired and that he had no privacy while on the bathroom. He did not complaint of being sat on, being deprived of sleep, put on pbj diets, insulted and humiliated or any of the abuses I see reported on these postings. I spent time in one of the foster houses with 3 clients and their 'parents' and I saw first hand how they all related, I had time to play boardgames and chat at length with the clients. The kids had at all times the right to use the phone and call police if they wanted to, the program bedroom had an alarm but not a lock as they were not locked in. They had a very good second full meal (as the first dinner was served to them at GT before departing). I am not making this up, I have no affiliation or interest whatsoever in defending TG, this is the true observations that we (my wife and I) made. I avoid mentioning here that I actually 'like' a lot of the parents and staff as it is a very subjective and personal taste and I could be mislead by it. Again, maybe my mistake was to believe that this program was similar to what you all suffer through, but it does not look that way. If I ever get a different impression or experience I will post it as I can't possible condone abuse of any kind. Also GT has been open for over 15 years and presumably hundreds if not thousands of kids: we would see a lot more bad rap about 'them' in the net. I looked hard and all I saw was the opinion of one judge and one psychologist, nothing more. Compare that with all the postings here relating to these other places. At this point most everything I saw and heard about GT (not Straight) tells me that this is a good program and they do not torture or abuse kids in any way. I don't doubt that your experiences are real but they relate to other programs as far as I can tell, not GT. That is my believe at this point, if anything changes I will make sure I come back. Thank you all very much for your help and interest. Edited by: Blopa at: 10/21/01 7:15:52 am
5
« on: October 01, 2001, 04:38:51 PM »
Re: Get him out
I started this Topic asking for 'factual' info about GT. The fact that one kid once accused them of abuse does not appear to be conclusive that anything bad actually happens there. You see, we did not take my son there simply to get him out of our lives, we went to GT desperate looking for a solution, after other programs gave up on him. My son has been there for only a month and I saw things that I frankly do not understand (some really look ridiculous) but they do not seem 'bad' per se. I just read so much criticism (some very, very heavy) about these programs, that it made me wonder and I am seeking more informatioin. I wish I could also hear from 'success stories', of 7 stepers that completed and graduated the programs, but I don't know where to find them. I don't condone any form of humiliation, torture of brainwashing. Now: how do you deal (successfully) with the problems of drug use, terrible behavior, law breaking, lack of motivation, liying, stealing, etc.? Does anybody have an alternative that actually works? Sorry to ask, but, do we hear in this forum just the voices of people that failed in the program and are resentful as a result? I read hear some truly hear drenching stories that I am sure are legitimate and honest experiences of many; are there success stories to? How are the lifes of those that left those programs in disgust? Are you OK now, drug and crime free, etc.? If my questions seem to naive I am sorry, I am truly tring to find a solution for my son (an mine) problem. I am not a prude, moralist, or any crap like that, but I do have to address my son's problems with a realistic solution that will work. I appreciate any help anyone can give us.
6
« on: October 01, 2001, 07:10:19 PM »
Growing Together of Lake Worth, Florida
I am a parent of a teenage boy that abused every drug, was kicked out of school, stealed from us repeatedly and got in trouble with the police for minor ofenses. He had a very defiant attitutde with us also. As he kept failing drug tests and all the warnings and consequences did very little to improve his behavior or stop his growing, daily drug use, I sent him to Growing Together. I am interested in information about this place and program as I love my son and want to help him and not harm him. I will appreciate any factual info anybody can provide me.
Thanks!
7
« on: December 01, 2001, 06:37:35 PM »
It's me
I am Blopa (Pablo) and I wrote a much longer reply, but it 'blanked out' or disapeared when I was about to post it, maybe because I am not a registered user anymore. The story of the password is a long one: I was receiving emails constantly for unrelated issues, so I changed my email address at this forum. Now I can't log in anymore with my initial username.
I did not revisit this site for a while until I could make up my mind regarding my son's placement. Up to then I had nothing to contribute.
Nobody asked me to write anything, I did not get in trouble and I did not pull my son.
I am getting kids 3 and 4 times a week, I talk with them a lot, play with them, eat with them. I talk to other parents and with former 'clients', etc. Up to this point I think that this is a good program. There are several kids that leave the day they become 18 (so they can sign themselves out!), and others that chose to stay. There are kids that are droped of the program by staff because their parents do not participate. I witness all of this, nobody told me this things.
I guess that unlike cancer, the treatment and cure of drug addiction is still a 'practice' and not an exact science. But after 3 or 4 other treatment programs and years of counseling, this is the best alternative we know. Like others, my son was way on his way to kill himself with his life on the 'outside'; I doubt he would be alive today. The first thing I had to secure was his life, and that we accomplished. He appears to be working the program.
I see several differences between what I read was normal practice at those other programs and GT: there is no locking people in rooms, there are no special PBJ sandwich diets, no belt-looping (whatever that means), no sitting on top of kids, no spitting at one's face, kids can sign out at 18, kids can refuse treatment (I saw this many times) like not talk, refuse to take pills. All these could be fundamental differences that makes this program different from The Seed, etc.
I understand we are taking a risk, but we were not sitting by the fireplace one day and out of boredom decided to send our beloved son to a jail! We did this when life together became impossible, when his survival was at stake, when he was high and non-functional (like skipping school every other day), etc. I asked here and in other places: Do you have a valid alternative as a solution? and NOBODY came forward with a workable solution. "Talk to him", "Love him unconditionally" etc. are the kind of 'solutions' suggested to me. I did all that, it does not work by itself.
8
« on: November 01, 2001, 06:08:42 PM »
GT
After 3 months in the program, fostering kids and participating, we are very happy with GT and we do not see any glimpse of the abuses reportedly common at other programs. Thanks for your interest and input. Should we change our minds, we will re-visit this site and post it.
9
« on: November 01, 2001, 06:03:55 PM »
GT
After 3 months in the program, fostering kids and participating, we are very happy with GT and we do not see any glimpse of the abuses reportedly common at other programs. Thanks for your interest and input. Should we change our minds, we will re-visit this site and post it.
10
« on: October 01, 2001, 04:23:21 PM »
Re: You just don't get it do ya??.......
Ken, I do not doubt that what you describe is true to the program you 'attended' (Straight), but I clearly established some differences between what you and others describe as taking place in Straight that DOES NOT match what goes on on GT.
Do you know what goes on on GT?
You keep insisting (and you are right) of how horrible the practices of the place you know, are. But I am not talking about that place, since I have no direct knowledge of anything they did there. I am not talking about Straight.
I do see similarities. I also see fundamental differences precisely about the things I see you 'complaint' the most. Again, they do not lock people in isolation (alone or in groups), they do not sit on people hurting them, do do not deny anyone the use of the phone to call for help, they do not put them in ridiculous diets, they do not deprive them of food or sleep. All this differences I know first hand and that is why I can talk about it. They don't mean anything to you?
BTW you still do not offer an alternative treatement.
Ken, I am not interested in winning any argument with you, prove you wrong, etc. as I understand you are only trying to help me and my kid. It just surprises me that you refer to GT as if was a copy of Straight. You know Straight, you do not not GT and you ignore the differences I point out to you.
11
« on: October 01, 2001, 02:42:52 PM »
Re: Dear old uncle Joe
Thank you very much all for your interest in helping my son and I. I am not in anyway downplaying what you been through (and still are) and I know you do not have any secret agenda as you have nothing to win or lose by sharing on your traumatic experience. After clearly establishing that I will discuss the present situation that started this Topic. The first thing that comes to mind is that several of the most openly troubling practices of Straight are absent on the practice at GT: special diet, food and sleep deprivation, isolation (not access to Children and Family or police by phone), kids locked with key on bedrooms. Those I know to be true as I saw first hand while fostering out (visiting host family houses with the kids there). Other things I was told by kids and parents is that they do not sit on kids, they are never locked alone, they are not insulted, spited at or humiliated screaming at their faces, etc.
Another issue, central to the big picture, is the brain washing. In principle, I am personally against all forms of brain washing. The caveat is that my son (and probably most people with self-destructive behavior) have already been brain washed and that is why they are actively seeking to kill themselves (and others) by abusing drugs, breathing AC gases (freon?) and other toxics that are known to destroy brain cells and terminate their lives at different paces. Or by driving at very fast speed while high or drunk, etc.
So the starting point of this treatment is not a happy Kids that is having a safe life. We started with a kid that was way on his way to kill himself and maybe others. We did not chose to disrupt a life, our aim is to get him to stop killing himself. Now, it is not an easy job to have someone abandon his most precious and valued beliefs: the entire drug culture, self mutilation and destruction, complete contempt for all the rules (right or wrong) that make his existence in the community possible, his absolute repudiation for any advice or even possibility of having a normal life (work, earn a living, stay sober and do whatever you chose to do with your life within the boundaries of the law).
How do you change all that without washing the Kid's mind? I am speaking from my mind and for myself as no one in any of the treatment centers we visited (including GT) ever admitting to resorting to brain washing. But I think that some sort of serious re-programming of the mind (aka brain washing) would have to take place to make such a radical change in someone concepts, thinking process, feeling process, etc. I know that simply talking to that person does not suffice. We tried that, we used psychologists, psychiatrists, medication, outpatient therapy, church, gifts, contracts, treats, you names. While doing all these, our son kept running in the opposite direction at an increased speed, doing more drugs, hanging out with very dangerous characters, getting in fights, cursing and screaming at us, breaking things, closing his mind more and more.
I do not think that we could just sit on the side hoping that he will get better by himself, as he was going to kill himself, possible others including us. It was impossible to talk with him about anything. He was deeply sad, even suicidal. He was stealing from us. This is the scene in most homes of troubled teenagers of the other parents we spoke with. So, with all honesty, what is there to do for a parent in this predicament? Is easy to blame the medicine at hand, but is there any other REALISTIC medicine? As ugly as it sounds, I think that you have to de-program and re-program the patient's mind to get them out of that rut. It sounds horrible, but what is the REALISTIC alternative. The person in on an accelerated path of self-destruction as thousands do die every year from this disease, drug abuse, suicide, etc. Talking won't do it since he would not listen, therapy as outpatient did not work either. Eckerd Youth Alternatives worked, but for a year or so. COPAC threw him out. La Amistad was a mad-house that he hated. South Miami Drug Rehab Center could not work with him. What else to try? Do I give up on him? And he is not seating still waiting for us to find a good solution, he is trying to kill himself with the drug use, etc. while we think and consider the alternatives. What will you do in such a case?
He will have to unlearn a lot of crap he learned, change his taste in music, friends, thought process, motivation, decency, etc. How in the world do you achieve all that?
I wish there was a pill he could take and get well, a book he could read or some magic words that someone can spell and make such fundamental changes as he needs to make to stay alive. Short of that, I think that some serious reprogramming of the mind would have to take place and I am surely no expert to judge and decide what it would entail. In the meantime I am glad he is safe and seems to be making progress.
Worse case, if he survives this treatment and will take him (as you say) 15 years to get right again, that implies that we will be alive 15 years from now, and that is good news. It certainly beats the alternative.
Those are my considerations at this time.
Regarding allegations of abuse (I just read your posting), no, I do not have anything more than allegations and it will be very easy to convince me otherwise: I you know any case that resulted on a conviction against GT, and you care to, please give me the case number, decision on the case, judge,etc. I will research such case/cases. So far I found none.
Thanks again. Edited by: Blopa at: 10/22/01 1:08:34 pm
12
« on: October 01, 2001, 10:09:28 AM »
Re: Growing Together of Lake Worth, Florida
Thank you all for your info, comments and concerns regarding the issue I brought up. I believe you and know that you have been traumatized and abused by those programs. Since I posted the initial message I did quite a bit of research into the specific program where my son is. There are many differences between what you honestly describe and GT and I think I made the mistake of 'guessing' early on that GT was a Straight or Straight-like program. I had the chance to talk to my son one on one and all his complaints where that he is not allowed to smoke cigarettes, that he does not like the food (he put 15 pounds and 2 pants sizes), that one night he was not allowed to bathe and wash his clothes because his oldcomer was tired and that he had no privacy while on the bathroom. He did not complaint of being sat on, being deprived of sleep, put on pbj diets, insulted and humiliated or any of the abuses I see reported on these postings. I spent time in one of the foster houses with 3 clients and their 'parents' and I saw first hand how they all related, I had time to play boardgames and chat at length with the clients. The kids had at all times the right to use the phone and call police if they wanted to, the program bedroom had an alarm but not a lock as they were not locked in. They had a very good second full meal (as the first dinner was served to them at GT before departing). I am not making this up, I have no affiliation or interest whatsoever in defending TG, this is the true observations that we (my wife and I) made. I avoid mentioning here that I actually 'like' a lot of the parents and staff as it is a very subjective and personal taste and I could be mislead by it. Again, maybe my mistake was to believe that this program was similar to what you all suffer through, but it does not look that way. If I ever get a different impression or experience I will post it as I can't possible condone abuse of any kind. Also GT has been open for over 15 years and presumably hundreds if not thousands of kids: we would see a lot more bad rap about 'them' in the net. I looked hard and all I saw was the opinion of one judge and one psychologist, nothing more. Compare that with all the postings here relating to these other places. At this point most everything I saw and heard about GT (not Straight) tells me that this is a good program and they do not torture or abuse kids in any way. I don't doubt that your experiences are real but they relate to other programs as far as I can tell, not GT. That is my believe at this point, if anything changes I will make sure I come back. Thank you all very much for your help and interest. Edited by: Blopa at: 10/21/01 7:15:52 am
13
« on: October 01, 2001, 04:38:51 PM »
Re: Get him out
I started this Topic asking for 'factual' info about GT. The fact that one kid once accused them of abuse does not appear to be conclusive that anything bad actually happens there. You see, we did not take my son there simply to get him out of our lives, we went to GT desperate looking for a solution, after other programs gave up on him. My son has been there for only a month and I saw things that I frankly do not understand (some really look ridiculous) but they do not seem 'bad' per se. I just read so much criticism (some very, very heavy) about these programs, that it made me wonder and I am seeking more informatioin. I wish I could also hear from 'success stories', of 7 stepers that completed and graduated the programs, but I don't know where to find them. I don't condone any form of humiliation, torture of brainwashing. Now: how do you deal (successfully) with the problems of drug use, terrible behavior, law breaking, lack of motivation, liying, stealing, etc.? Does anybody have an alternative that actually works? Sorry to ask, but, do we hear in this forum just the voices of people that failed in the program and are resentful as a result? I read hear some truly hear drenching stories that I am sure are legitimate and honest experiences of many; are there success stories to? How are the lifes of those that left those programs in disgust? Are you OK now, drug and crime free, etc.? If my questions seem to naive I am sorry, I am truly tring to find a solution for my son (an mine) problem. I am not a prude, moralist, or any crap like that, but I do have to address my son's problems with a realistic solution that will work. I appreciate any help anyone can give us.
14
« on: October 01, 2001, 07:10:19 PM »
Growing Together of Lake Worth, Florida
I am a parent of a teenage boy that abused every drug, was kicked out of school, stealed from us repeatedly and got in trouble with the police for minor ofenses. He had a very defiant attitutde with us also. As he kept failing drug tests and all the warnings and consequences did very little to improve his behavior or stop his growing, daily drug use, I sent him to Growing Together. I am interested in information about this place and program as I love my son and want to help him and not harm him. I will appreciate any factual info anybody can provide me.
Thanks!
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