Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Seed Discussion Forum => Topic started by: GregFL on October 30, 2003, 09:08:00 PM

Title: totalism and the seed
Post by: GregFL on October 30, 2003, 09:08:00 PM
Recently Ginger posted this in another synanon based forum. Those that have studied a bit about cults and mind control are familiar with Dr. Lifton's criteria for thought reform. This is for those that have not... notice how every category fits what we went thru in the seed without exception:

Dr. Robert J. Lifton's Criteria for Thought Reform

Return to North Korea / Tangled Web home
Any ideology -- that is, any set of emotionally-charged convictions about men and his relationship to the natural or supernatural world -- may be carried by its adherents in a totalistic direction. But this is most likely to occur with those ideologies which are most sweeping in their content and most ambitious or messianic in their claim, whether a religious or political organization. And where totalism exists, a religion, or a political movement becomes little more than an exclusive cult.

Here you will find a set of criteria, eight psychological themes against which any environment may be judged. In combination, they create an atmosphere which may temporarily energize or exhilarate, but which at the same time pose the gravest of human threats.

(a brief outline)

The most basic feature is the control of human communication within an environment If the control is extremely intense, it becomes internalized control -- an attempt to manage an individual's inner communication Control over all a person sees, hears, reads, writes (information control) creates conflicts in respect to individual autonomy Groups express this in several ways: Group process, isolation from other people, psychological pressure, geographical distance or unavailable transportation, sometimes physical pressure Often a sequence of events, such as seminars, lectures, group encounters, which become increasingly intense and increasingly isolated, making it extremely difficult-- both physically and psychologically--for one to leave Sets up a sense of antagonism with the outside world; it's "us against them" Closely connected to the process of individual change (of personality)

MYSTICAL MANIPULATION (Planned spontaneity)
Extensive personal manipulation Seeks to promote specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that it appears to have arisen spontaneously from within the environment, while it actually has been orchestrated Totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative The "principles" (God-centered or otherwise) can be put forcibly and claimed exclusively, so that the cult and its beliefs become the only true path to salvation (or enlightenment) The individual then develops the psychology of the pawn, and participates actively in the manipulation of others The leader who becomes the center of the mystical manipulation (or the person in whose name it is done) can be sometimes more real than an abstract god and therefore attractive to cult members Legitimizes the deception used to recruit new members and/or raise funds, and the deception used on the "outside world"

The world becomes sharply divided into the pure and the impure, the absolutely good (the group/ideology) and the absolutely evil (everything outside the group) One must continually change or conform to the group "norm" Tendencies towards guilt and shame are used as emotional levers for the group's controlling and manipulative influences Once a person has experienced the totalist polarization of good/evil (black/white thinking), he has great difficulty in regaining a more balanced inner sensitivity to the complexities of human morality The radical separation of pure/impure is both within the environment (the group) and the individual Ties in with the process of confession -- one must confess when one is not conforming

Cultic confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself Sessions in which one confesses to one's sin are accompanied by patterns of criticism and self-criticism, generally transpiring within small groups with an active and dynamic thrust toward personal change Is an act of symbolic self-surrender Makes it virtually impossible to attain a reasonable balance between worth and humility A person confessing to various sins of pre-cultic existence can both believe in those sins and be covering over other ideas and feelings that s/he is either unaware of or reluctant to discuss Often a person will confess to lesser sins while holding on to other secrets (often criticisms/questions/doubts about the group/leaders that may cause them not to advance to a leadership position) "The more I accuse myself, the more I have a right to judge you"

The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic doctrine or ideology, holding it as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence Questioning or criticizing those basic assumptions is prohibited A reverence is demanded for the ideology/doctrine, the originators of the ideology/doctrine, the present bearers of the ideology/doctrine Offers considerable security to young people because it greatly simplifies the world and answers a contemporary need to combine a sacred set of dogmatic principles with a claim to a science embodying the truth about human behavior and human psychology

The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliche (thought-stoppers) Repetitiously centered on all-encompassing jargon "The language of non-thought" Words are given new meanings -- the outside world does not use the words or phrases in the same way -- it becomes a "group" word or phrase

Every issue in one's life can be reduced to a single set of principles that have an inner coherence to the point that one can claim the experience of truth and feel it The pattern of doctrine over person occurs when there is a conflict between what one feels oneself experiencing and what the doctrine or ideology says one should experience If one questions the beliefs of the group or the leaders of the group, one is made to feel that there is something inherently wrong with them to even question -- it is always "turned around" on them and the questioner/criticizer is questioned rather than the questions answered directly The underlying assumption is that doctrine/ideology is ultimately more valid, true and real than any aspect of actual human character or human experience and one must subject one's experience to that "truth" The experience of contradiction can be immediately associated with guilt One is made to feel that doubts are reflections of one's own evil When doubt arises, conflicts become intense

Since the group has an absolute or totalist vision of truth, those who are not in the group are bound up in evil, are not enlightened, are not saved, and do not have the right to exist "Being verses nothingness" Impediments to legitimate being must be pushed away or destroyed One outside the group may always receive their right of existence by joining the group Fear manipulation -- if one leaves this group, one leaves God or loses their transformation, for something bad will happen to them The group is the "elite", outsiders are "of the world", "evil", "unenlightened", etc.

Excerpted from: Thought Reform And The Psychology of Totalism, Chapter 22, (Chapel Hill, 1989) & The Future of Immortality, Chapter 155 (New York 1987).

Everything in moderation, including moderation.
Mark Twain

Title: totalism and the seed
Post by: marshall on November 17, 2003, 09:48:00 PM
I was ordered by the court to go to the seed or face 5 years in prison for selling  acid. I had already served 4 months in an adult prison at age 17.  I had a large collection of several hundred lp's when I went into the seed.  An oldcomer told me that all of my albums were old ties to my druggie past and I should get rid of them. For the first few months, I really tried to accept and believe in the seed ideology, so after some thought I decided he was right. I asked the oldcomer what I should do with them...figuring I should throw them away so that no-one else would become infected with this vile rock music. He offered to dispose of them for me.  A few months later, this oldcomer graduated his program and headed back home to new england. As I was saying my goodbye's, he opened his trunk to put in a suitcase. There in his trunk were every single one of my albums. He explained that they were only old ties to me, not to him. Lots of Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, Black Sabbath, etc.  
For the first 3 or 4 months I was gung-ho, really immersing myself into being the best seedling I could be and relating alot in group.  Afterall, with prison hanging over my head I had strong motivation for staying. I had never been one to blindly accept or believe and eventually I began to question certain aspects of the seed program.  I began to see certain flaws in the program, chinks in their beliefsystem...many of which greg and others have brought to light here. This caused considerable pain and conflict. I stopped relating in group and began to feel that I had to somehow fake my way through this ordeal in order to avoid prison.
I too sensed the cult-like qualities in the group...the unquestioning reverence for art and staff. We had raps on how we were all 'meant to be here' at the seed. As if 'we' were the chosen few...chosen to save the world. Definite messianic / megalomaniacal overtones.  Though speaking of loving everyone, a certain nasty hostility came out when staff spoke of 'druggie assholes'.  Ginger once said she and her druggie friends 'should have been lined up on a wall and shot.'  
We spoke of getting rid of our druggie images...but no one ever seemed to realize we were simply exchanging druggie images for equally fake 'straight' images. The girls had to cultivate a specific 'seedling' look in clothing  and guys had to have really short hair and no facial hair. Rock music was routinely trashed because it was the product of a 'bunch of druggie assholes' and we were encouraged to embrace frank sinatra and art's choice of music instead. Being 'straight' meant projecting very specific, seed-approved images.  
I spent over a year on the program. All during the program I kept hearing how I would look back upon my time at the seed as the happiest of my life.  I'm 45 now and I regard it instead as one of, if not THE worst time of my entire life.  Thanks for this forum.  It's helped to clarify issues that I've mulled over off & on for many decades.
Title: totalism and the seed
Post by: Anonymous on December 02, 2003, 12:43:00 AM
many kids not only gave up their image, they gave up their futures.  they sacraficed their famlies, not just their old ties.  art is the biggist ego maniac i have ever met in my life.  he didn,t save lives, he destroyed them. art lusted after many young girls at the seed.  i many witnessed art patting girls behinds in their bikinis on the beach in florida and always wonder how he could get away with such a criminal act.  many of these girls were under age.  art and michael jackson have a lot in common.
Title: Re: totalism and the seed
Post by: marshall on July 02, 2009, 10:32:58 AM
I watched an episode of Southpark last night (7/01/09) that brought the Seed and discussions here immediately to mind. Stan's dad went to a bar, got drunk and was driving home with kids in the car. He gets pulled over, arrested and ordered to attend AA by the court. At the AA meeting the rap is about how they are all powerless over alcohol. Think think think is plastered on posters on the wall. The 12 steps are posted in front. Stan's dad buys into the whole dogma and claims he has a disease called alcoholism and that he's powerless to stop drinking without the help of a miracle and God. Later in the show (which I highly recommend if you can catch it at some point) Stan keeps telling his dad that the whole powerlessness dogma is b.s., that he can quit if he wants on his own. Stan goes to AA group with his dad and points out that AA is like a religion. The leader of the rap asks Stan "don't you know what a 12 step program is?" To which Stan replies: "Yeah, and I know what a cult is too!". This whole program severely critisizes and questions the 12 step TC programs and powerlessness dogma while pointing out the obvious pseudo-relgious aspect of AA. It was a great show. Stan's dad says: But son, don't I need to completely stop drinking, not even a drop? Otherwise I'll be an alcoholic." Stan replies: "No, dad. You are not powerless. You like drinking. You don't have to stop drinking completely. Have a drink sometimes or even two. Just don't drink too much." Stan's dad finally concedes that his son is right. I'm sure my recount of the episode doesn't do it justice.
Title: Re: totalism and the seed
Post by: Anonymous on July 03, 2009, 12:07:41 AM
Really sad anyone  had to go through such horror, should be some way to return something to the souls that suffered this trauma.Wish there were a way to help all the souls today that suffer same nightmares today.
Title: Re: totalism and the seed
Post by: Anonymous on July 03, 2009, 05:58:24 AM
marshall. i am sorry as a child of 17. and yes, you were a child, that the court ordered you to jail or the seed.

two non-choices.

your album story proves what we all know.

they were all blood suckers, looking to take advantage of anyone, in any way they could, for any reason.

how hypocritical. the albums were tied to drugs for you, but not for the phoney, who ran off with them.

i remember i was a surfer kid.

i was actually sent to a psychiatrist because i still wanted to surf.

the psychiatrist, actually gave me a letter -- written permission to "permanently" surf.

i now live in japan.

i have to tell you, if i lived in florida, i would torment barker, and libby and all that i could find. i'd bury them in legal documents.

one think you guys and gals could do, is force the seed to submit to you, your seed records.

since it was a drug treatment facility, it falls under the category of medical treatment, and federal law requires those documents to be available for your entire life.

wouldn't you LOVE to see what they put in their individual reports? you are absolutely lawfully entitled to those documents.

its a BIG TIME crime to destroy those records.

you can file, have a fee waived in court, there would be service (notice to the criminal barker), it would be civil court. you would file an injunction forcing the seed to submit your medical records.

if they could not produce them. barker could, and should face criminal prosecution.


i believe those records have been destroyed. because truly those people were and are incompetent in all things.

talk about denial.

they are the druggy assholes, the losers of society, the pariahs, that preyed on little boys and girls.


i requested my records from libby, she ignored me.

i left her my phone number and email info.

i left messages so many times. i know it was disturbing to her.

my sister called her and libby hung up and immediately changed her voice message to a man.

when i personally talked to libby she was stuttering and speechless.

in their heart of heartless hearts. i believe they know they were fuck ups.

but like the CIA that has never done anything good for this country.

they just keep on fucking up.

the seed - indeed.
Title: Re: totalism and the seed
Post by: Anonymous on July 03, 2009, 12:02:04 PM
Well I would like to Fuck up a few lives, I would start with Art Barker, and then Libby, and go down the list of fools pretending to run a drug rehab, when all they were doing is  taking funds and living off of scared souls, I will say it over and over, it is still a CRIME that these people are out free walking around and have never been brought into a court room. Why this is  I have not a clue, for the courts are fool of shit and this is just another piece of shit  that need be brought to a trial.
Title: Re: totalism and the seed
Post by: Anonymous on July 03, 2009, 06:03:12 PM
Stack...What does fool of shit mean?  I guess if anyone would know - I'm asking the right person...
Title: Re: totalism and the seed
Post by: Anonymous on July 04, 2009, 12:48:26 AM
fool of shit.


its either a grammatical error or a great play on words.

i choose the "ladder"
Title: Re: totalism and the seed
Post by: Anonymous on July 04, 2009, 03:26:19 PM
I am the one who should answer what fool of shit is, I posted that,  that whole place was one big fool of shit Place, and it sucked ass being a prisoner there.
Title: Re: totalism and the seed
Post by: Cyndeelouwho on July 04, 2009, 08:15:36 PM
The real druggies were the ones who we called staff. They were court ordered in lieu of prison.
Kind of like letting Charles Manson come over to clean your house with Susan Atkins et al.
They were neither trained or educated in any matters except how to score dope .
I learned more about sex, drugs and petty crimes in the seed, then I ever knew before being forced into that gulag.
As a footnote, I am neither in jail, in a mental hospital or dead.
All those things were guareented to me if I did not complete the program.
I think we all know that the third option happens to all of us, don't know anyone that can beat that rap.
I would like to see any of the former seed staff started over a few times and stood up and called some of the things I was called.
I may get some pleasure seeing them cry but I don't think I have it in me to harm them.
The real harm is living with the knowledge of their crimes against humanity.
And my mom allowed it to happen.
She still doesn't acknowledge the rape and torture that occured for over a year to her 16 year old daughter, her 14 year old son and her 13 year old daughter.
Very sad.
It is mandatory to close those doors forever and stop abusing children.
Help to shut down gulags operating under the guise of drug rehabs.
Title: Re: totalism and the seed
Post by: Cyndeelouwho on July 04, 2009, 08:22:33 PM
art barker has nothing in common at all with Michael Jackson, Michael Jackson was a contributing and talented member of the human race.

art barker is a poser that used government money and lied to parents about his qualifications and manically envisioned himself a do gooder

he was a con artist , thief, scammer, cigarette smoking, porcine, squat, phoney who manipulated the system when he couldn't find enough warm bodies to fill his hell hole and lied to familes about the facade called the seed, indeed

Michael Jackson was the victim of media harassment and tried his best all his life to entertain and give back to the world

Do not roll them up in the same doobey, please

The are oil and vinegar, night and day, peace and war
Title: Re: totalism and the seed
Post by: Anonymous on July 04, 2009, 11:15:19 PM
I hate the fact that there are places still out there imprisoning children, it really does make one not rest well knowing others are still being tortured as I was, I was only 13 years old, I hear there are  much younger cases, how sad, I was lucky I was a strong soul, what about the poor souls who still cry out for help and get none, this hurts me so much, what about the souls that are too weak and can not hold on, breaking ones spirits is like killing to me,how does one  stop the pain?