Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: PFRR on June 18, 2006, 01:31:00 PM
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Hello -
Although people do not like the fact that programs are even in exhistance - the fact is they are. I am drafting a letter in the next week to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts EEC which is the licensing agency for all Residential and Group Care Facilitie in MA. I did this with Desisto after going to Court - etc. they were forced to license and instead of meeting standards chose to pack up and leave. I strongly feel that ASW meets the standards of having to license and meet standards. The problem I have is that I am seeking more evidence of this - they do administer restraint, medication, and take kids with special education needs as well. Alot of these kids are not publically funded where the statistics are not then available under the Freedom of Information Act.
If anyone has any information (substantial) regarding this program please email me directly at [email protected] with ASR in subject tag if you are a former student or parent with your name and dates you were or your child was there please and let me know if you or your child was:
On Medication while there, receiving Special Education Services, Restrained (if so type of method and by who staff other residents etc.), or anything relevent. Aslo if you had or your child has or had a diagnoses while there - under EEC definitions it is clear that Special Needs is a much broader definition than in education.
The bottom line is they are there, staying open, taking kids in and providing care 24 hours a day for these young people and should have to meet standards and have oversight as well. I am looking for clear evidence that the kids there or who have gone (the past maybe 3 - 5 years) meet the definition of Special Needs under EEC Regulations so they will have to license and meet standards at least - health, welfare, safety and appropriate service delivery are a priority if these places are to be in business.
I thank you in advance.
Andrea
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I work at ASR, and as a small response to your post, we do not ever do restraints. We are not trained to do so, and so do not. The police would be called immediately should there be a safety problem, and there has not been in over 3 years.
Most of our students are medicated, and we have consulting psychiatrists who oversee this process.
I would qualify all of our students as have special needs- that is why they have ended up at a therapeutic boarding school of course.
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On 2006-06-21 15:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I work at ASR, and as a small response to your post, we do not ever do restraints. We are not trained to do so, and so do not. The police would be called immediately should there be a safety problem, and there has not been in over 3 years.
Most of our students are medicated, and we have consulting psychiatrists who oversee this process.
I would qualify all of our students as have special needs- that is why they have ended up at a therapeutic boarding school of course."
Do they ever:
Put children in isolation?
Make them stare in the mirror for hours ?
Withhold food as punishment?
Are they allowed to write letters home?
Can they call home?
Can they go to the bathroom when they want?
Are they used as labor to repair the property?
Just for starters, It is nice to have some up to date first hand info. Thanks in advance.
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I am happy to engage in a honest conversation.
1) No, we do not ever put children in forced isolation. Occasionally students participate in voluntary solos for a couple of hours to reflect and work on writing assignments.
2) No, students are not forced to look into the mirror for hours. What would be the purpose of that?
3) We do not withhold food. We have a great food service called Sage that does an excellent job.
4) They are encouraged to write letter home frequently, and also are encourgaed to write to friends who will be positive influences when the students graduate.
5) They each have a scheduled call home at least once a week. Many of them also do conference calls with their counselors to help them address more sensitive issues with family members.
6) The bathrooms are available any time the kids or staff need to use them.
7) We have Work Projects on the weekends as a consequence for negative behavior. This includes doing chores such as gardening or cleaning as well as community service. It lasts 2 hours and the staff work with the kids. The kids are also assigned to crews and do 20 minutes of general cleaning each morning after breakfast. This involves cleaning the dining room, straightening up common areas- general cleaning to take care of our space. We have a maintenance team that does repairs and cleaning beyond basic chores that most kids would help with at home.
I hope this is helpful.
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On 2006-06-21 16:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
1) No, we do not ever put children in forced isolation. Occasionally students participate in voluntary solos for a couple of hours to reflect and work on writing assignments.
What do the writing assignments involve?
4) They are encouraged to write letter home frequently, and also are encourgaed to write to friends who will be positive influences when the students graduate.
Do the staff read the letters before they're sent home or to friends? Are the kids allowed to write to any extended family member they choose to?
5) They each have a scheduled call home at least once a week. Many of them also do conference calls with their counselors to help them address more sensitive issues with family members.
Do they have the opportunity to call more than once a week? Is the child permitted to have a private call with family or friends if they so desire?
7) We have Work Projects on the weekends as a consequence for negative behavior.
What types of negative behavior would bring about work projects?
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On 2006-06-21 16:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am happy to engage in a honest conversation.
1) No, we do not ever put children in forced isolation. Occasionally students participate in voluntary solos for a couple of hours to reflect and work on writing assignments.
2) No, students are not forced to look into the mirror for hours. What would be the purpose of that?
3) We do not withhold food. We have a great food service called Sage that does an excellent job.
4) They are encouraged to write letter home frequently, and also are encourgaed to write to friends who will be positive influences when the students graduate.
5) They each have a scheduled call home at least once a week. Many of them also do conference calls with their counselors to help them address more sensitive issues with family members.
6) The bathrooms are available any time the kids or staff need to use them.
7) We have Work Projects on the weekends as a consequence for negative behavior. This includes doing chores such as gardening or cleaning as well as community service. It lasts 2 hours and the staff work with the kids. The kids are also assigned to crews and do 20 minutes of general cleaning each morning after breakfast. This involves cleaning the dining room, straightening up common areas- general cleaning to take care of our space. We have a maintenance team that does repairs and cleaning beyond basic chores that most kids would help with at home.
I hope this is helpful."
Thank you, I hope you stick around. You might get hammered pretty hard here (try to hang in), not many people like honest feed back, here, if it shows any school in a positive light. I had a daughter there several years ago and would be interested to see how the program has progressed since. I will have more questions.
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If the writing assignments are a consequence for acting out, the assignments may focus on what they were feeling that led to their behavior, what were the results both negative and positive of their behavior, how did their behavior affect others...what can they try to do differently next time. Some writing assignments are given to help a student work thru an issue- like cutting, family relationships, insecurities. They are designed to help kids look at how they think, how they feel, and what they have do and can do differently in reaction to their feelings and thoughts.
The staff do read most incoming and outgoing mail. We have had parents tell kids they were adopted out of the blue, friends try to smuggle drugs in, very hurtful letters go back and forth. We work with both parents and kids to learn more effective communication styles. In most situatiosn kids can write to extended family members.
For similar reasons, kids are not permitted to have unsupervised calls until later in their program. Kids are able to discuss anything they want. We only redirect them if they become disrespectful. We have over 100 students which limits our ability to allow them to make more than 1-2 calls home per week.
Kids would earn work projects for many things- disrespect, for being consistently late to classes, or for breaking our sex, drug, or violence agreements. The idea is that when you take away from the community, you should do something positive to give back.
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Thank you for answering the questions. Who is right, it may get heated for you in here. I hope you stay also. We probably won't agree on much but if you can ignore the bullshit and just deal with people who are engaging in an actual dialogue we both may learn something.
On 2006-06-21 17:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
The staff do read most incoming and outgoing mail. We have had parents tell kids they were adopted out of the blue, friends try to smuggle drugs in, very hurtful letters go back and forth.
That tells me why you would monitor incoming mail, why the mail going from child to parent?
One of the things that bothered me the most when I was in (not ASR) was that I completely lost touch with what was going on outside of the school. I felt like I had no system of checks and balances when something didn't feel right. I was isolated and surrounded by people who all thought the exact same way. Dissent was not appreciated. I had no frame of reference anymore to what was normal. This is one of the many major problems I have with monitoring or censoring communication, especially between parent and child.
Do the kids have access to television or newspapers? No, not because I think not having TV is abusive (before all the assumption begin). What I'm asking is do they know what's going on in the outside world. I didn't. Missed two years of my life.
Do you use LGAT type seminars? (This may have been answered by Who before but I've been gone a while and can't remember).
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I appreciate the chance to have a good dialogue and will do my best to ignore people who are disrespectful. Thanks for the heads up.
Letters from kids to parents are read pretty thoroughly in the first part of the program because kids can be really hurtful and disrespectful. Most are very angry at their parents for sending them away or for situations at home. We try to support them and guide them as they begin to take these issues on and learn to trust their family again. We do not censor the letters for content unless they are really out of control- in that case we would teach the student about effective communication and try to help them re-write the letter in a more productive way.
I know that people here have said that staff could be abusing the kids and not allow kids a way to report it. I can only say that I would never work for a place that did this and that I trust my co-workers 100 percent.
I understand your comments about feeling isolated from the outside world. I do think that this tends to happen at ASR, despite our attempt not to allow it to. Kids do receive newspapers and magazines, and are allowed to watch some tv- including news, sports, and appropriate movies (no sex, drugs, violence). We often talk about current events in meetings to help the kids stay in contact with the "outside" world. They also have trips on weekends and during school breaks.
I do think it's easy to lose sight of what "normal" teens are doing and thinking. We challenge the students to be really self-reflective and take on an emotional maturity that many teens don't have. Their awarness of their emotions may make them feel a little isolated from their peers after graduation.
As far as there being one ASR mindset, certainly there is a great diversity among students and staff at ASR, which I think prevents there from being one belief system. Kids and staff challenge one another's thinking all the time and respectful sharing of opinions (negative and positive) are encouraged.
Honestly, I have only heard the term LGAT seminars here and don't know much about them. We have lifesteps which have changed a lot recently and are designed to be team building and trust building seminars. They used to be focused on taking kids deep into their pain in order to help them understand it and heal, and now they are about increasing self esteem and connection to others.
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So you've read some here.
How did you find Fornits?
What is your position with ASR?
Why has ASR refused to be licensed and monitored by the state all these years?
Any comments on this action?
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=9&7 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=15966&forum=9&7)
Is there any outside entity that ASR is required to report injuries, assaults, sexual inpropriaties, etc. to?
When did you stop taking kids 'deep into their pain"?
How was it decided that this form of experimental therapy was harmful and should be changed?
BTW, seminars that take kids deep into their pain, sounds very much like LGAT. You honestly have never heard of est, Lifespring?
In your opinion, what is beneficial about putting teens in a 'bubble' and pretending that sex, drugs, violence aren't part of their world? Seems that movies with those themes would be good catalysts for discussion.
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Your respect isn't worth two shits in a tin cup, programmie.
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I heard about fornits through co-workers.
I do not want to disclose my position at ASR.
ASR is a part of the Mohawk Regional school system and does comply with state regulations as a part of this school system. Also we are over a year into the accreditation process and are following all state and federal rules.
We are manadated by law to report allegations of abuse to the state. We report all injuries and such to Aspen and to the parents and any other parties we are required to. If there are assaults, they usually result in immediate expulsion.
As I said, I never heard of LGAT before reading about it here. Lifesteps were not changed because they were deemed harmful. They have changed because we have decided to become a more individualized program and take on that level of therapeutic work in individual sessions.
We do not pretend that sex, drugs, and violece aren't a part of their world. We take those issues on in a therapeutic manner and do occasionally show movies with those themes and then process them. The movies I was refering to showing were for entertainment- in which case we censor them to prevent kids from being triggered negatively when processing isn't possible.
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Thanks for the chance to have a good discussion here. Good night everyone.
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On 2006-06-21 19:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Thanks for the chance to have a good discussion here. Good night everyone."
You too, thank you for your candor tonight.
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I smell a set up job. Let see some proof that the anon is a legit employee. Since you are speaking so well of the school what will hurt you to step forward with your true identity?
NOT a thing.
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On 2006-06-21 17:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
I understand your comments about feeling isolated from the outside world. I do think that this tends to happen at ASR, despite our attempt not to allow it to. Kids do receive newspapers and magazines, and are allowed to watch some tv- including news, sports, and appropriate movies (no sex, drugs, violence). We often talk about current events in meetings to help the kids stay in contact with the "outside" world. They also have trips on weekends and during school breaks.
I do think it's easy to lose sight of what "normal" teens are doing and thinking. .
I think you underestimate what this can do to a person. Very often this doesn't go away for
years if at all. It makes relationships difficult to say the least. Especially with friends. Trusting anyone is out of the question due to the snitch culture created by peer counseling and therapeutic communities.
We challenge the students to be really self-reflective and take on an emotional maturity that many teens don't have
Why would you want to do that? Why accelerate that process?
Their awarness of their emotions may make them feel a little isolated from their peers after graduation.
Yeah, we were told it was a gift. Propoganda to try and make us feel somehow advantaged or superior when we felt nothing like that. We felt isolated and unsure.
Honestly, I have only heard the term LGAT seminars here and don't know much about them. We have lifesteps which have changed a lot recently and are designed to be team building and trust building seminars. They used to be focused on taking kids deep into their pain in order to help them understand it and heal, and now they are about increasing self esteem and connection to others."
How is this increase in self esteem accomplished? How does the lifesteps system work?
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On 2006-06-21 19:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
As I said, I never heard of LGAT before reading about it here. Lifesteps were not changed because they were deemed harmful. They have changed because we have decided to become a more individualized program and take on that level of therapeutic work in individual sessions.
Someone else who knows please correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the lifesteps based on Gilcrease's LGATs?
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If you are not willing to open identify yourself here please do so by emailing me directly at [email protected] I also would like you to clarify something all of the kids are special needs? Are they on medication as well? When you say special needs please describe without identifying any of the particular students, what you mean ie: diagnoses etc? I really appreciate your help - you are helping me to understand more clearly the populations that are served there.
Andrea
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It's TheWho. Under another name. Lying. AGAIN.
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"Letters from kids to parents are read pretty thoroughly in the first part of the program because kids can be really hurtful and disrespectful. Most are very angry at their parents for sending them away or for situations at home. We try to support them and guide them as they begin to take these issues on and learn to trust their family again. We do not censor the letters for content unless they are really out of control- in that case we would teach the student about effective communication and try to help them re-write the letter in a more productive way."
Do they learn to "trust" their family again because that family had done something (intensive family thereapy for instance) to deserve that trust? because without a clear understanding of WHY they don't trust their family they are just being set up for failure. They go and trust, open themselves up to that family when they go home and get retraumatized so to focus on the child trusting the family without exploring the reason for that distrust and a meaningful change on the part of everyone it is just bogus. In fact it is worse for the child because they no longer have the pretection of the defenses they have built up and some kids come from some pretty sick families.
If you don't censor for content why even read the mail at all?
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On 2006-06-21 22:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
""Letters from kids to parents are read pretty thoroughly in the first part of the program because kids can be really hurtful and disrespectful. Most are very angry at their parents for sending them away or for situations at home. We try to support them and guide them as they begin to take these issues on and learn to trust their family again. We do not censor the letters for content unless they are really out of control- in that case we would teach the student about effective communication and try to help them re-write the letter in a more productive way."
Do they learn to "trust" their family again because that family had done something (intensive family thereapy for instance) to deserve that trust? because without a clear understanding of WHY they don't trust their family they are just being set up for failure. They go and trust, open themselves up to that family when they go home and get retraumatized so to focus on the child trusting the family without exploring the reason for that distrust and a meaningful change on the part of everyone it is just bogus. In fact it is worse for the child because they no longer have the pretection of the defenses they have built up and some kids come from some pretty sick families.
If you don't censor for content why even read the mail at all? "
You do understand that reading mail to parents is illegal. Kids substantial liberty interests cannot be waived by a contract. What happens if a kid is being abused? You are not looking to protect anyone except your economic interest.
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On 2006-06-22 07:31:00, Badpuppy wrote:
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On 2006-06-21 22:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
""Letters from kids to parents are read pretty thoroughly in the first part of the program because kids can be really hurtful and disrespectful. Most are very angry at their parents for sending them away or for situations at home. We try to support them and guide them as they begin to take these issues on and learn to trust their family again. We do not censor the letters for content unless they are really out of control- in that case we would teach the student about effective communication and try to help them re-write the letter in a more productive way."
Do they learn to "trust" their family again because that family had done something (intensive family thereapy for instance) to deserve that trust? because without a clear understanding of WHY they don't trust their family they are just being set up for failure. They go and trust, open themselves up to that family when they go home and get retraumatized so to focus on the child trusting the family without exploring the reason for that distrust and a meaningful change on the part of everyone it is just bogus. In fact it is worse for the child because they no longer have the pretection of the defenses they have built up and some kids come from some pretty sick families.
If you don't censor for content why even read the mail at all? "
You do understand that reading mail to parents is illegal. Kids substantial liberty interests cannot be waived by a contract. What happens if a kid is being abused? You are not looking to protect anyone except your economic interest. "
I think the question of why they read the mail was answered. Personally, I am not familiar with the laws and whether it is legal or not to read a childs mail, I will see what I can find on this. As far as being abused goes, the child can just walk away (police station is less than 2 miles I believe) or they could call home.
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Who, what do you do for a living?
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All of my opinions about ASR aren't positive. Generally, however, I do firmly believe in the power of the work we do with families and in the skill and intentions of the staff. I have seen many many kids and their families make tremendous progress while at ASR and after graduation.
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On 2006-06-22 13:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"All of my opinions about ASR aren't positive. Generally, however, I do firmly believe in the power of the work we do with families and in the skill and intentions of the staff. I have seen many many kids and their families make tremendous progress while at ASR and after graduation."
What are some of the areas that you see as not so positive or need improvement. This is important to me to understand, it would be a great help.
Thanks
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On 2006-06-21 20:19:00, PFRR wrote:
"If you are not willing to open identify yourself here please do so by emailing me directly at [email protected] I also would like you to clarify something all of the kids are special needs? Are they on medication as well? When you say special needs please describe without identifying any of the particular students, what you mean ie: diagnoses etc? I really appreciate your help - you are helping me to understand more clearly the populations that are served there.
Andrea"
I would call all of the kids "special needs" because they have been unable to remain in the mainstream education system. Many of them have diagnosis of ADHD, depression, ODD, OCD, PTSD, Bipolar,and some have experienced physical/sexual abuse, neglect, or loss as in death or adoption. These issues coupled with special learning needs to address their ADHD, NVLD, etc. has made it pretty impossible for most of our kids to be successful in a mainstream classroom. We have very small classes (4-10 kids) with teachers who have expereinec working with these issues. When they have dealt with these issues mediaccaly and emotionally, and have gained better relationships with their families and friends, most are able to go on to colleges or more mainstream schools. I would guess that 60% of our students are on meds for these diagnosis.
Thanks for not attacking me- I am enjoying answering your questions.
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On 2006-06-22 13:14:00, TheWho wrote:
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On 2006-06-22 13:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"All of my opinions about ASR aren't positive. Generally, however, I do firmly believe in the power of the work we do with families and in the skill and intentions of the staff. I have seen many many kids and their families make tremendous progress while at ASR and after graduation."
What are some of the areas that you see as not so positive or need improvement. This is important to me to understand, it would be a great help.
Thanks"
The staff turn over is huge. All the staff work very hard at their jobs and do excellent work, yet feel unappreciated by upper management and some are disgruntled about working for Aspen. Some of the positions are designed to be entry level, and many staff leave after a year to go to grad school. It's hard to get good training going when new people are always coming in. The decision makers travel a lot and don't have a good idea of what happens outside of their offices, during the evenings and on weekends. People get laid off occasionally, which makes everyone walk on egg shells. The academic department needs to be raised to a higher level, although I by no means think they do an insufficient job. Kids are bored on weekends and we could use more funding dedicated to increasing activities.
I do feel I need to qualify this by stating that none of these issues are creating a lack of safety or anything less than a great program. These are just some basic (and common in many companies I think) issues that I see. I wish they would improve.
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"We challenge the students to be really self-reflective and take on an emotional maturity that many teens don't have"
"Why would you want to do that? Why accelerate that process? "
We do it because we have to help them heal from traumas and the pain they carry individually and as a family. In the course of their therapy, they become more emotionally aware than the average teen. I think it must be hard for them to relate to some kids when they get home, although I wouldn't under-estimate all mainstream teens- there are certainly some very intelligent, mature, and insightful kids in the world who are able to develop great friendships with former ASR students.
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On 2006-06-22 13:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2006-06-22 13:14:00, TheWho wrote:
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On 2006-06-22 13:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"All of my opinions about ASR aren't positive. Generally, however, I do firmly believe in the power of the work we do with families and in the skill and intentions of the staff. I have seen many many kids and their families make tremendous progress while at ASR and after graduation."
What are some of the areas that you see as not so positive or need improvement. This is important to me to understand, it would be a great help.
Thanks"
The staff turn over is huge. All the staff work very hard at their jobs and do excellent work, yet feel unappreciated by upper management and some are disgruntled about working for Aspen. Some of the positions are designed to be entry level, and many staff leave after a year to go to grad school. It's hard to get good training going when new people are always coming in. The decision makers travel a lot and don't have a good idea of what happens outside of their offices, during the evenings and on weekends. People get laid off occasionally, which makes everyone walk on egg shells. The academic department needs to be raised to a higher level, although I by no means think they do an insufficient job. Kids are bored on weekends and we could use more funding dedicated to increasing activities.
I do feel I need to qualify this by stating that none of these issues are creating a lack of safety or anything less than a great program. These are just some basic (and common in many companies I think) issues that I see. I wish they would improve."
Thank you, The turn over seems to be an industry wide problem based on what I have read here and experienced with other parents from other programs.
I am surprised that the kids are bored on weekends, is this seasonal or year round?
Do kids basically feel safe there? Are there feelings of distress or afraid to speak out, disagree with staff?
How many kids attempt to run away per month? (my daughter tried it while she was there and was talked back)
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Just one more question, Who(re)...
While being sodomized, which do you prefer- vaseline or KY?? :lol:
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I had heard that ASR addressed the problem that some of the kids were having transitioning back to home life. I know this was a problem with my daughter. Has anything been done to address this over the past few years that you know of?
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Boredom on the weekends is definitely worse in the winter when we are cooped up, but we do offer ski/ snowboarding club, snow shoeing, crafts, use of our indoor athletic facilities and indoor climbing wall. In the summer we send kids outside a lot and try to have a lot of organized sports and activities. As I'm sure you know, it can be difficult to get teens excited about participating in group events- many complain and perfer to do their own thing. Once they are pushed to try something new, they often love it. So it's a bit of a push pull. If we had more money or bigger vans, we could get more kids off campus, volunteering, visiting museums and other cultural spots, bring more varied performers to ASR, etc.
We have not had a kid try to run away in at least 6 months. We are taking much "softer" kids than we did a few year back, and they are generally more compliant and less out of control. So they are more apt to talk things through with staff instead of trying to run. We do not confront as hard as we used to. We give kids more healthy outlets for their frustration than we used to.
I would say that most kids adapt well to our environment and are happy on a daily basis. I often see kids laughing and participating in fun events, yet then go into a phone call with their parents and talk about how much they hate ASR. I wish I had a videotape to show the parents that life at ASR is a pretty fun, very safe place. Once kids make it thru the halfway point, they usually can admit that they are making great friendships and love most of the staff. Of course, there are always a couple kids who cannot adapt and are abnormally unhappy at ASR, and usually they move onto other places before long.
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On 2006-06-22 15:02:00, TheWho wrote:
"I had heard that ASR addressed the problem that some of the kids were having transitioning back to home life. I know this was a problem with my daughter. Has anything been done to address this over the past few years that you know of?"
That is the number one reason why we have shifted to individualized care over the past year and a half. We know that some kids needed more help, more time before being able to make that transition home. Yet they were pushed thru the program because the completed each lifestep and family resolution. Now kids go at their own pace, not the schedule that is set upon enrollment. We are developing more family workshops to help assist with the transition and parents are invited to ASR much more frequently, as well as kids being allowed to go home on more "practice runs". There is a lot more to be done to address this issue, and I would say that it the #1 therapeutic priority right now.
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On 2006-06-22 15:02:00, TheWho wrote:
"I had heard that ASR addressed the problem that some of the kids were having transitioning back to home life. I know this was a problem with my daughter. Has anything been done to address this over the past few years that you know of?"
Do you mind telling what peer group your daughter was in? ASR has changed a lot, and that would help me understand what ASR was like when your family experienced it.
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On 2006-06-22 15:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2006-06-22 15:02:00, TheWho wrote:
"I had heard that ASR addressed the problem that some of the kids were having transitioning back to home life. I know this was a problem with my daughter. Has anything been done to address this over the past few years that you know of?"
Do you mind telling what peer group your daughter was in? ASR has changed a lot, and that would help me understand what ASR was like when your family experienced it."
It was during the time Dave Marcus was researching his book. I think it was Peer group 21, 22. Funny I used to know it off the top of my head, 21 I think.
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That was right around the tail end of ASR's heyday. It was quite a different school then than it is now.
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Just because you can use a proxy doesn't mean you get to talk to yourself, Who.
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On 2006-06-22 15:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That was right around the tail end of ASR's heyday. It was quite a different school then than it is now. "
I still get the news letters of how the kids are doing, new gym, new dorms, updated food services, how the graduates from different peer groups are doing in college/ life etc. (Its nice to hear the stories!)
Do you get any feed back on the ones that dont do well? Go back to the way they were? The ones that ASR could not help?
Are there any independent studies going on that you are aware of that are attempting to measure the effectiveness of the program? or any measurements that ASR is doing on post graduates?
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I talk to a lot of former students, some who are doing great, many who are in college to study psychology, and some who are not doing so well. A lot of kids go back into substance abuse. I think before a year ago, we did not do enough to address that issue. Some kids cannot seem to heal their relationships with their families, and still experience pretty severe loneliness. We hear a lot of stories about other kids through the kids who do stay in contact. Many of them go to the same schools after ASR- Dublin, White Mountain, etc. and stay in touch. Some kids totally bomb, but I would say that most take about a year to test themselves and then seem to look back with appreciation of what they accomplished at ASR. This is the impression I get from the kids who stay in touch with me.
I do not know what measurments are being done to quantify success. I would like to see statistics as well. I think it's been hard to get those numbers because it's hard to calculate healing and therapeutic progress. But not impossible, and it should be done.
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Some kids cannot seem to heal their relationships with their families, and still experience pretty severe loneliness. We hear a lot of stories about other kids through the kids who do stay in contact.
I am really sorry to hear this. I know that we really worked hard as a family, when my daughter was there and we all moved forward quite a bit , and still she was so far ahead of us and the other kids when it came to communication and maturity when she got home. I know she was frustrated with the old dynamics with her friends and some still at home. She demanded so much openness from everyone so quickly that she felt alone and disappointed when we finished our discussions. I use to be totally drained, but she was use to it. Like a rubber band she had to go out and experience everything she missed in one night practically. But after a short time we balanced out as a family. I think the biggest gift she walked away with from ASR are the tools and depth she has to deal with very stressful situations and life changes.
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Yea, right, WHO.
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Just because you still know how to use a proxy still doesn't mean you get to talk to yourself, Who.
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That seems like a story I've heard a lot. I think the success of each student is often very much correlated to the amount of work the family does and I am so glad to hear that you worked the program. That's why families are invited to ASR more frequently now- to help them keep up with the work the kids do and to make sure everyone understands that this is a family issue, not just the child's issue.
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You see if ASR was appropriatly licensed or even had a shred of knowledge reading the kids mail from the parents, allowing phone calls to and from parents only 1x a week if even (I have heard otherwise) is a violation of their civil rights. Yes they can open the envelope to see if their is contraband or such, due to health, welfare, and safety, but reading it. Hmmm sounds like the Protection and Advocacy Agency needs to get a call from me about this. And as far as them being able to walk out anytime and go to the Police Station hmm I wonder how often the PD is called there, sounds like a call to the Chief may be in order...
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On 2006-06-22 17:26:00, PFRR wrote:
"You see if ASR was appropriatly licensed or even had a shred of knowledge reading the kids mail from the parents, allowing phone calls to and from parents only 1x a week if even (I have heard otherwise) is a violation of their civil rights. Yes they can open the envelope to see if their is contraband or such, due to health, welfare, and safety, but reading it. Hmmm sounds like the Protection and Advocacy Agency needs to get a call from me about this. And as far as them being able to walk out anytime and go to the Police Station hmm I wonder how often the PD is called there, sounds like a call to the Chief may be in order..."
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
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On 2006-06-22 17:26:00, PFRR wrote:
"You see if ASR was appropriatly licensed or even had a shred of knowledge reading the kids mail from the parents, allowing phone calls to and from parents only 1x a week if even (I have heard otherwise) is a violation of their civil rights. Yes they can open the envelope to see if their is contraband or such, due to health, welfare, and safety, but reading it. Hmmm sounds like the Protection and Advocacy Agency needs to get a call from me about this. And as far as them being able to walk out anytime and go to the Police Station hmm I wonder how often the PD is called there, sounds like a call to the Chief may be in order..."
When we would try and report abuses the police would laugh at us, tell us we deserved whatever we got because we had caused our parents so many problems and would promptly 'escort' us back to the program.
Even if that had not been the case, the intense scrutiny, pressure and fear tactics keep most kids silent until they feel its safe.
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I highly encourage you all to call whomever you choose, research ASRs standards, call the policy, etc. I would too, if I was considering sending my child away from home.
But let me assure you, that we would have been shut down years ago if we were doing anything illegal.
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On 2006-06-22 15:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I talk to a lot of former students, some who are doing great, many who are in college to study psychology, and some who are not doing so well. A lot of kids go back into substance abuse.
Guess that blows the stats huh?
Some kids cannot seem to heal their relationships with their families, and still experience pretty severe loneliness.
Shocked, I'm SHOCKED I tell you!!! I wonder why on earth they would feel that way? :roll: :roll:
We hear a lot of stories about other kids through the kids who do stay in contact. Many of them go to the same schools after ASR- Dublin, White Mountain, etc. and stay in touch. Some kids totally bomb, but I would say that most take about a year to test themselves and then seem to look back with appreciation of what they accomplished at ASR.
And who's to say this isn't due to just growing up? Just think how much faster they'd have been able to get there if you hadn't fucked with 'em.
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On 2006-06-22 18:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I highly encourage you all to call whomever you choose, research ASRs standards, call the policy, etc. I would too, if I was considering sending my child away from home.
But let me assure you, that we would have been shut down years ago if we were doing anything illegal."
That's a load of shit. Programs stay open all the time, even when there have been deaths. There were reports, credible ones, of abuse at the place I was for over a decade and nothing was done. It took an even more extreme set of circumstances for anyone to do anything. Even then it wasn't the authorities shutting them down, they closed because of so much bad press from former clients getting out and talking.
The best place for your child is at home. Period.
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***But let me assure you, that we would have been shut down years ago if we were doing anything illegal.
Who would know? And who would shut them down? They aren't licensed. The state licensing authority can't even enter the property of a private corp.
I didn't get a satisfactory response for why ASR has refused to be licensed and monitored by the state. Why would you avoid state oversight?
You gave all the particulars regarding accreditation. So the academic aspect is montiored. No one's is monitoring the therapeutic aspect.
You mentioned that you report accidents, injuries, assaults to the appropriate entities. Who are they? What do they do with that information? Is it available to prospective parents?
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On 2006-06-22 20:21:00, Deborah wrote:
"***But let me assure you, that we would have been shut down years ago if we were doing anything illegal.
Who would know? And who would shut them down? They aren't licensed. The state licensing authority can't even enter the property of a private corp.
I didn't get a satisfactory response for why ASR has refused to be licensed and monitored by the state. Why would you avoid state oversight?
You gave all the particulars regarding accreditation. So the academic aspect is montiored. No one's is monitoring the therapeutic aspect.
You mentioned that you report accidents, injuries, assaults to the appropriate entities. Who are they? What do they do with that information? Is it available to prospective parents?"
the question 'why would you avoid state oversight' might be reconsidered as i cant imagine any organization wanting another unnecessary and possibly contradictory/conflicting regulation and review if they dont have to. especially if you dont see it doing any good
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That's understandable. Who wants a government agency breathing down their neck. Prohibiting you from censoring mail and phone calls, etc, etc.
No illusion, state oversight provides a minimum of protection, at best.
I imagine that parents "assume" that programs are monitored by the state. What facility that warehouses kids 24/7/365 isn't regulated? When they proclaim to be accredited a parent can misconsrue this to mean regulation.
It's fraud plain and simple to lie about services provided to avoid such regulation.
Until programs are regulated we will not have accurate data on deaths, injuries, assaults, sexual inpropriaties, etc.
It is what's best for the kids.
Can you show otherwise? How state oversight would not be in the kids best interest?
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Why would you avoid state oversight?
Deborah, no one wants others to come in and audit their systems or try to tell them what to do. I don?t know of any families that call DSS to come visit them on a monthly basis to check things out or Corporations inviting OSHA in to visit. It?s a pain in the butt, they need to schedule people to escort them around, file paperwork, take them out to lunch and with DSS it is time you could be spending with your family, take time off work etc.. Most feel there is no value added. Everyone feels, probable yourself included, they are dong the best job possible and don?t value oversight.
The individual states need to do the work and enforce oversight, you cant blame the schools for this.
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Most feel there is no value added. Everyone feels, probable yourself included, they are dong the best job possible and don?t value oversight.
The individual states need to do the work and enforce oversight, you cant blame the schools for this.
"
[/quote]
But is should not be about whether the schools or for profit compnies see it as adding value to the business. If the business is about the health safety and welfare of kids then this is what should come first. The only way to completely hold any company accoutable, particularly when there is a high volume of casualties is for some kids of adequately enforceable independent oversite.To say 'oh but the companies dont like it" is like saying "oh but my 6 year old does not like eating vegetables so I dont make her"
If the industry was serious about being able to prove its accoutability for parents its major players would be willing to submit to regulations and even actively help to make drafting suggestions, regardless of whether it added financial value to the industry because it would be willing to show an active comittment to the kids it is supposed to serve.
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http://old.valleyadvocate.com/articles/swiftriver.html (http://old.valleyadvocate.com/articles/swiftriver.html)
Excerpts:
In other cases, however, such programs may load additional stresses onto an already struggling young psyche.
That's what Dean Kent feels is happening far too often at ASR. Kent, a former employee of the school, is so concerned about the treatment of students at the academy that he has gone public with his fears, drawing the attention of the state Office of Child Care Services.
The state started looking closely at the school several months ago after Kent spoke out about things he'd seen and heard while working there. As a cook at ASR last year, Kent grew increasingly disturbed by the way the staff treated students: viewing them as manipulative and untrustworthy, shouting obscenities at them during so-called "communications sessions," holding all-night group therapy meetings that students seemed to dread, and severely restricting their communication with the outside world. And he saw bored students who seemed to be growing increasingly unhappy and agitated.
Eventually his concern turned to fear -- fear that the use of sleep deprivation, forced work and tough wilderness outings as behavior-modification tools amounted to emotional and physical abuse.
Other things worried Kent too. He noticed that the students were not allowed to make telephone calls, even calls to their parents, without a staff member listening, and that their incoming and outgoing mail was read. After he learned that a boy who had broken his collarbone had been forced to move heavy cans and jars and wipe down shelves in the kitchen as punishment for a trifling infraction just a week after being injured, Kent became so worried that he decided to contact the state Department of Social Services about the school's practices. DSS passed the information on to the state Office of Child Care Services, which sent an investigator, Eric Lieberman, to the academy.
Academy administrators told Lieberman it was true that students were denied sleep for 19 or 20 hours during the first Life Step session, called "The Truth." Staff and students might stay up all night, then break for a nap between 5 and 7 a.m., then continue the session until 2 the next afternoon, the administrators said. One administrator also acknowledged using profanity toward the students during communications sessions, and added, "Some days I have said things to students that I wish I did not say."
The Office of Child Care Services' investigators found that the school had not been remiss in getting medical treatment for the student with the broken collarbone, but it did substantiate most of Kent's other concerns. It cited the school for "using behavior management techniques which subject students to verbal abuse, ridicule and humiliation, denial of sufficient sleep, and repetitive exercise as a response to an infraction of a rule."
OCCS also cited the school for monitoring students' telephone calls and mail. The agency said that the right to privacy in communications, even for juveniles, can be restricted only by court order -- for example, if a therapist believes that the teen's communication should be monitored, perhaps to support a young person through a crisis in relations with his or her family -- and then only temporarily.
The citation struck at another bone of contention between the state and ASR. A few months ago OCCS found itself at odds with ASR over whether the school needs to be licensed in Massachusetts as a treatment center, something College Health Enterprises had not done. ASR officials seemed to be having it both ways by enforcing rules usually associated withtreatment programs for people with emotional or behavioral disorders, but refusing to have the school licensed as a treatment center, which would give OCCS the right to oversee its operations. The disagreement is still unresolved, and has turned into a battle between lawyers for the state and the school.
Meanwhile, Kent was suspended from his job, and later fired, for calling the state and the press. Not content with firing him, school officials also had their lawyer, Northampton attorney Ed Etheredge, follow up the termination with a letter threatening Kent with possible libel action if he continued to speak.
In addition to declining to speak to the press, ASR officials seems to have become more defensive in recent months. When OCCS staff visited the school last month to discuss another complaint, school administrators refused to answer any questions and escorted the state officials off the property. At press time attorneys with the OCCS were trying to arrange a meeting to discuss differences between the school and the agency, which still maintains that ASR needs a license.
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There would be value if ASR and others were required to disclose in bold letters that they are not licensed and monitored by any state agency, and what that means. Like I said, I think parents assume they are licensed, or that "accreditation" includes monitoring of the experimental 'therapeutic' methods.
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Deborah,
i read through this post and this thread and i see others get mad when the programmies hold onto certain pices of information and do not let..beat the dead horse. but for that artlcle to held over the head of ASR is ridiculus. that article caused the first of many sweeps to be made of ASR concerning staff who had no business being the residential care business. but that was seven years ago and, with none of the same staff, you use it t condemn ASR. ASR has been changing and listening to people's concerns for years especially thelast 2 years when they completely new administration. they brought in a clinical director with no "emotional growth" experience to make changes into a more clinically sound program. And despite this you wave this 7 year article around....i would compare that to anyone still waving a nelson mandella banner. do not ask for people to talk and discuss things freely in this forum if this is what they get. i have never spoken up here and was enjoying this thread because there was a person from ASR taking a chance to speak up. to all the people who have this person to identify themselves in some way you are brave asking them to take a risk when you have nothing to lose yourselves.
an open minded individual
and so everyone knows i work in a related field so that is how i know about ASR
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On 2006-06-23 07:37:00, Deborah wrote:
"
There would be value if ASR and others were required to disclose in bold letters that they are not licensed and monitored by any state agency, and what that means. Like I said, I think parents assume they are licensed, or that "accreditation" includes monitoring of the experimental 'therapeutic' methods."
Yes, your right, which would work, if they were forced to do that. That would get the ball rolling, The parents would then add pressure to get the schools licensed and monitored. There needs to be some catalyst, like what you stated, to get it started.
Ever see those big banners on the side of companies ?ISO 9001 certified?? That is an extremely expensive and time consuming task for some companies, especially if they are small. The people they sell to (larger companies) are demanding they be certified in order to do business them.
If you talk to the people that have gone thru the process they will tell you they are a better company for it, but would have never done it on their own because of the expense and time it took and back then they felt they were doing a good enough job already, so they felt at the time why get certified?
The article you posted is very old compared to the ASR today or even 4 years ago. It did raise some eyebrows in its time though.
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What a crock of shit. 4 years, 7 years....
Bentz was there from 98 (when the article was written) - 03, Sept to be exact.
There are reports of degrading comments/ humiliation, etc going on as late as Aug 04
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=30#58816 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=30#58816)
03 Grad
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=60#75780 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=60#75780)
02 Grad
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=60#77264 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=60#77264)
"Clinical Director"? So they are attempting to operate more like a psychiatric facility now, or what?
Who is the CD?
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-06-23 08:36 ]
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On 2006-06-23 08:34:00, Deborah wrote:
"What a crock of shit. 4 years, 7 years....
Bentz was there from 98 (when the article was written) - 03, Sept to be exact.
There are reports of degrading comments/ humiliation, etc going on as late as Aug 04
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=30#58816 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=30#58816)
03 Grad
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=60#75780 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=60#75780)
02 Grad
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=60#77264 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=60#77264)
"Clinical Director"? So they are attempting to operate more like a psychiatric facility now, or what?
Who is the CD?
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-06-23 08:36 ]"
What is it with you? Why do you have to get so angry all the time? We are all talking about what we know and experienced. I havent seen anyone lashing out at you because of your believes or position, without provocation.
Its an old article, Deborah, no one is discrediting it, just pointing out that the school has grown and continues to since the article 7 years ago and even since I have been there 3-4 years ago. I think the point the poster was trying make was the new director isnt from another program or grown out of CEDU or some of the others that you say are bad. This should be a good thing, a different point of view.
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On 2006-06-23 08:34:00, Deborah wrote:
"What a crock of shit. 4 years, 7 years....
Bentz was there from 98 (when the article was written) - 03, Sept to be exact.
There are reports of degrading comments/ humiliation, etc going on as late as Aug 04
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=30#58816 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=30#58816)
03 Grad
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=60#75780 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=60#75780)
02 Grad
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=60#77264 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=2826&forum=9&start=60#77264)
"Clinical Director"? So they are attempting to operate more like a psychiatric facility now, or what?
Who is the CD?
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-06-23 08:36 ]"
This is the point, Who. Having not worked in the industry or really knowing anything at all about it you wouldn't know that this is the MO of these facilities.
They don't make fundamental changes. They change out some personnel, pin the problems on the recently shit-canned, hire new people and proclaim "We're moving forward," only nothing ever changes.
You were saying the same bullshit before, Who, deflecting concerns over Rudy BEntz by saying that there was a new team in place and imrovements were being made. Well, guess what? THAT team was all fucked up, they let them go, pinned the blame on them and hired a new team - all the while there are steady streams of reports of abuse/neglect/lack of true treatment.
But here you are saying the same thing again. It's a cycle. It's a pattern of behavior. The concept is flawed to its very core and plugging in new names doesn't change anything, just like with Rudy Bentz and Tim Brace. The changes are to shine on to unhappy customers that there is real change, but it's just cosmetic - and appearances are all that matter to desperate people.
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Seems you havent been keeping up (been away from the industry too long), you'll be quoting Rudy Bentz and Tim Brace 20 years from now and posting reports from the 90's to support your position.
Every year that goes by your position gets Weaker and Weaker, DJ. You should read from the beginning of this thread, to see what we are talking about before you jump in.
If you cant contribute, please, read and learn.
.............And be nice, mind your manners today.
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On 2006-06-23 11:38:00, TheWho wrote:
"Seems you havent been keeping up (been away from the industry too long), you'll be quoting Rudy Bentz and Tim Brace 20 years from now and posting reports from the 90's to support your position.
Every year that goes by your position gets Weaker and Weaker, DJ. You should read from the beginning of this thread, to see what we are talking about before you jump in.
If you cant contribute, please, read and learn.
.............And be nice, mind your manners today."
You're got real mental problems, Who. Bentz was there up until when, three years ago? And Brace after that? Two proven abusers from CEDU ran ASR until just a few years ago. Then they hired some new talking head and had to let him go for the same reasons.
C'mon, Who, you're tired rhetoric is lame and ineffective. Try as you might to change the history of ASR, you can't. It was founded by a child abuser and has been run by other child abusers since. It's all part of the same story. You don't have enough excuses to cover up the fact that ASR is a cookie-cutter model of of a failed system.
I can see why you're unemployable.
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On 2006-06-23 11:38:00, TheWho wrote:
"Seems you havent been keeping up (been away from the industry too long), you'll be quoting Rudy Bentz and Tim Brace 20 years from now and posting reports from the 90's to support your position.
Every year that goes by your position gets Weaker and Weaker, DJ. You should read from the beginning of this thread, to see what we are talking about before you jump in.
If you cant contribute, please, read and learn.
.............And be nice, mind your manners today."
ASR New Grad Mom
Posted: 2004-08-24 10:02:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also graduated from ASR very recently on August the 6th. And I can tell you right now that any kid who complained, their parents were manipulated right out of believing them. There was extreme emotional abuse there, and the only reason anyone's behavior was modified was because they were scared shitless of staying there longer or going to a worse program. We were so scared, your own friends turned against you and you couldnt trust them. The group sessions were awful. One of my friends who had issues with sleeping around was in group and the counselor in the room told her that she might as well keep a mattress tied to her back. Daily, I heard awful things about myself and everyday I was just so sad. Places like this are awful and they need to be stopped. ASR isnt even the worst of them but they all need to go.
Spin, lie and squirm all you want. The victims of this place are speaking up and telling the truth about things you would have no way of knowing. You're a shameless shill for the industry, Who.
Is this kid lying? Is his argument "outdated"?
Why should you care what happens to the kids there? The answer is that you don't, so why pretend to?
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On 2006-06-22 20:21:00, Deborah wrote:
"***But let me assure you, that we would have been shut down years ago if we were doing anything illegal.
Who would know? And who would shut them down? They aren't licensed. The state licensing authority can't even enter the property of a private corp.
I didn't get a satisfactory response for why ASR has refused to be licensed and monitored by the state. Why would you avoid state oversight?
You gave all the particulars regarding accreditation. So the academic aspect is montiored. No one's is monitoring the therapeutic aspect.
You mentioned that you report accidents, injuries, assaults to the appropriate entities. Who are they? What do they do with that information? Is it available to prospective parents?"
We are a member of the Massachusetts Boarding SChool association (I'm not sure of the exact title) who oversees us. Of course we have to follow all sorts of state and federal regulations. It's silly to think that anyone can just open up a school and run it with no oversight. That doesn't even make sense.
As far as reporting aciidents and such, I don't have specific information regarding that. That is not a part of my job.
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On 2006-06-23 06:18:00, Deborah wrote:
"
That's understandable. Who wants a government agency breathing down their neck. Prohibiting you from censoring mail and phone calls, etc, etc.
No illusion, state oversight provides a minimum of protection, at best.
I imagine that parents "assume" that programs are monitored by the state. What facility that warehouses kids 24/7/365 isn't regulated? When they proclaim to be accredited a parent can misconsrue this to mean regulation.
It's fraud plain and simple to lie about services provided to avoid such regulation.
Until programs are regulated we will not have accurate data on deaths, injuries, assaults, sexual inpropriaties, etc.
It is what's best for the kids.
Can you show otherwise? How state oversight would not be in the kids best interest?"
We do not claim to be accredited. We are in the accrediation process.
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On 2006-06-23 07:33:00, Deborah wrote:
"http://old.valleyadvocate.com/articles/swiftriver.html
Excerpts:
In other cases, however, such programs may load additional stresses onto an already struggling young psyche.
That's what Dean Kent feels is happening far too often at ASR. Kent, a former employee of the school, is so concerned about the treatment of students at the academy that he has gone public with his fears, drawing the attention of the state Office of Child Care Services.
The state started looking closely at the school several months ago after Kent spoke out about things he'd seen and heard while working there. As a cook at ASR last year, Kent grew increasingly disturbed by the way the staff treated students: viewing them as manipulative and untrustworthy, shouting obscenities at them during so-called "communications sessions," holding all-night group therapy meetings that students seemed to dread, and severely restricting their communication with the outside world. And he saw bored students who seemed to be growing increasingly unhappy and agitated.
Eventually his concern turned to fear -- fear that the use of sleep deprivation, forced work and tough wilderness outings as behavior-modification tools amounted to emotional and physical abuse.
Other things worried Kent too. He noticed that the students were not allowed to make telephone calls, even calls to their parents, without a staff member listening, and that their incoming and outgoing mail was read. After he learned that a boy who had broken his collarbone had been forced to move heavy cans and jars and wipe down shelves in the kitchen as punishment for a trifling infraction just a week after being injured, Kent became so worried that he decided to contact the state Department of Social Services about the school's practices. DSS passed the information on to the state Office of Child Care Services, which sent an investigator, Eric Lieberman, to the academy.
Academy administrators told Lieberman it was true that students were denied sleep for 19 or 20 hours during the first Life Step session, called "The Truth." Staff and students might stay up all night, then break for a nap between 5 and 7 a.m., then continue the session until 2 the next afternoon, the administrators said. One administrator also acknowledged using profanity toward the students during communications sessions, and added, "Some days I have said things to students that I wish I did not say."
The Office of Child Care Services' investigators found that the school had not been remiss in getting medical treatment for the student with the broken collarbone, but it did substantiate most of Kent's other concerns. It cited the school for "using behavior management techniques which subject students to verbal abuse, ridicule and humiliation, denial of sufficient sleep, and repetitive exercise as a response to an infraction of a rule."
OCCS also cited the school for monitoring students' telephone calls and mail. The agency said that the right to privacy in communications, even for juveniles, can be restricted only by court order -- for example, if a therapist believes that the teen's communication should be monitored, perhaps to support a young person through a crisis in relations with his or her family -- and then only temporarily.
The citation struck at another bone of contention between the state and ASR. A few months ago OCCS found itself at odds with ASR over whether the school needs to be licensed in Massachusetts as a treatment center, something College Health Enterprises had not done. ASR officials seemed to be having it both ways by enforcing rules usually associated withtreatment programs for people with emotional or behavioral disorders, but refusing to have the school licensed as a treatment center, which would give OCCS the right to oversee its operations. The disagreement is still unresolved, and has turned into a battle between lawyers for the state and the school.
Meanwhile, Kent was suspended from his job, and later fired, for calling the state and the press. Not content with firing him, school officials also had their lawyer, Northampton attorney Ed Etheredge, follow up the termination with a letter threatening Kent with possible libel action if he continued to speak.
In addition to declining to speak to the press, ASR officials seems to have become more defensive in recent months. When OCCS staff visited the school last month to discuss another complaint, school administrators refused to answer any questions and escorted the state officials off the property. At press time attorneys with the OCCS were trying to arrange a meeting to discuss differences between the school and the agency, which still maintains that ASR needs a license.
"
This article is from 1997 when Dean worked there for about 2 months. The school did shut down and repoened under a whole new administration. The school is an entirely different entity than it was 9 years ago.
-
We are a member of the Massachusetts Boarding SChool association (I'm not sure of the exact title) who oversees us. Of course we have to follow all sorts of state and federal regulations. It's silly to think that anyone can just open up a school and run it with no oversight. That doesn't even make sense.
Can you explain why you have teachers on staff working in classrooms that have no college degrees whatsoever? How about the fact that none of your teachers are licensed to teach?
THAT doesn't even make sense.
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This article is from 1997 when Dean worked there for about 2 months. The school did shut down and repoened under a whole new administration. The school is an entirely different entity than it was 9 years ago.
Yeah, under Rudy Bentz and later Tim Brace, two administrators well-known for their incompetence and abusiveness.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-06-23 12:29 ]
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WOW! I just went back and looked over their staff. They've turned over about 75% of the staff since we were last discussing the issue only two or three months ago.
Guess who stayed on though. That's right, the teachers with no degrees whatsoever and still not a single licensed or certified teacher on the staff - very sad commentary for the "Princeton" of the industry.
I also took a little time to look over the counseling staff. Huge turnover including the top guy who was the only licensed staff there - and he was replaced by an unlicensed staff.
Who's doing the "therapizing" with no licensed staff on board?
You're right, Who, things are changing there. There getting worse and worse and worse.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-06-23 12:28 ]
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(http://http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4517/donkeypunch6hz.gif)
DJ, how long will it take you to get sick of donkeypunching the same guy over and over? :roll:
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On 2006-06-23 11:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-06-22 20:21:00, Deborah wrote:
"***But let me assure you, that we would have been shut down years ago if we were doing anything illegal.
Who would know? And who would shut them down? They aren't licensed. The state licensing authority can't even enter the property of a private corp.
I didn't get a satisfactory response for why ASR has refused to be licensed and monitored by the state. Why would you avoid state oversight?
You gave all the particulars regarding accreditation. So the academic aspect is montiored. No one's is monitoring the therapeutic aspect.
You mentioned that you report accidents, injuries, assaults to the appropriate entities. Who are they? What do they do with that information? Is it available to prospective parents?"
We are a member of the Massachusetts Boarding SChool association (I'm not sure of the exact title) who oversees us. Of course we have to follow all sorts of state and federal regulations. It's silly to think that anyone can just open up a school and run it with no oversight. That doesn't even make sense.
As far as reporting aciidents and such, I don't have specific information regarding that. That is not a part of my job."
I apologize for the Dysfunction Junction interruptions. He is fornits ?Mental health professional?. The majority (1.5%) of the industry supports his views and his compassion for people comes through in his postings very clearly. His friends will soon follow with some very mature postings themselves, but try to hang in there for those of us who are listening,
Thanks again.
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Damn! Now that's an eye-opener.
Maybe you can pick up some of the slack and start setting the record straight after The Who makes up and then mangles the data, distorts the facts and outright lies about everything? It would be a help if I didn't have to carry the yoke alone...
Thanks in advance.
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The majority (1.5%) of the industry supports his views...
Can you provide the statistics that support this claim?
Yeah...I didn't think so. You just made it up yesterday, so I guess today it's a proven fact. :lol:
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-06-23 12:39 ]
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WOW! I just went back and looked over their staff. They've turned over about 75% of the staff since we were last discussing the issue only two or three months ago.
Guess who stayed on though. That's right, the teachers with no degrees whatsoever and still not a single licensed or certified teacher on the staff - very sad commentary for the "Princeton" of the industry.
I also took a little time to look over the counseling staff. Huge turnover including the top guy who was the only licensed staff there - and he was replaced by an unlicensed staff.
Who's doing the "therapizing" with no licensed staff on board?
You're right, Who, things are changing there. There getting worse and worse and worse.
What kind of a joke reply to THAT is... ignoring it and instead turning and attacking DJ instead of actually addressing what he has to say?
Oh, wait, its TW, how dare we assume he acts responsibly.
DJ, youre getting nowhere fast even responding to him! The only winning move is not to play, because if he cant win, he'll argue instead of debate, and change the focus, attack you, or try to obfuscate or whittle it down to a "cant be wrong cant be right" waffling. Or, in this case, dig up old shit and attacking DJ in a passive-aggressive manner and all of fornits at the same time and patronizing him and apologizing for his 'interruptions'.
TW got owned, plain and simple, and this thread needs to be locked and TW banned, because hes either a troll or so mentally far gone hes acting as one anyway.
But, unfortunately, fornits is totally open and totally uncensored, so people feel compelled to answer this guys stupidty for the lurkers.
We just need a disclaimer put into all of TW's posts that shows all his bullshit, and the rebuttals, so we dont have to do this shit anymore, and actually go out and accomplish more than rebuking a programmed parent.
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TW got owned, plain and simple
Yeah, I own him currently, but I'm thinking of selling him. Of course, I'd have to housebreak him first. Nobody wants an un-housebroken pet program monkey these days...
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form what i can see there is no owning of anyone on this forum. you all hold facts tightly to your chests and do not let go of anything. there is no such thing as an open mind here. DJ, you worked at HLA so i believe you know what you are saying there since you are probably in touch with staff there but all you know of ASR is what you think happened because of your time spent with Rudy Bentz while you worked with him. i think the problem is that both sides are wrong and the truth lies in the middle. the programmies hold their stuff to be gold while the anti-program do the same....does anyone question that the information that is put out here, the stuff from inidividuals (at least) does come from a biased source. so i think people here need to stop being right and actually read what others are saying and seek understanding;. Andrea, who actually started this thread was doing that until everyone else stepped in and ruined it.
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On 2006-06-23 13:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"form what i can see there is no owning of anyone on this forum. you all hold facts tightly to your chests and do not let go of anything. there is no such thing as an open mind here. DJ, you worked at HLA so i believe you know what you are saying there since you are probably in touch with staff there but all you know of ASR is what you think happened because of your time spent with Rudy Bentz while you worked with him. i think the problem is that both sides are wrong and the truth lies in the middle. the programmies hold their stuff to be gold while the anti-program do the same....does anyone question that the information that is put out here, the stuff from inidividuals (at least) does come from a biased source. so i think people here need to stop being right and actually read what others are saying and seek understanding;. Andrea, who actually started this thread was doing that until everyone else stepped in and ruined it."
Good Point, you seem to have a touch for facilitating/mediating. There is a sharp divide here. Hope this gets us back on track.
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US?????
There is no "US" when it comes to your postings, WHO.
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you all hold facts tightly to your chests and do not let go of anything. there is no such thing as an open mind here.
:roll:
Thats because the facts are the fucking facts and you cant waffle around them in the real world like you can in a program's bubble-world or in some LGAT.
You can't whine about a lack of an "open mind" when it pertains to opening your mind to something thats false, or incorrect, or inherantly abusive.
However, such appeals (especially with an emotional element) are the hallmark of whats essentially brainwashing.
Anyway, Im sick of reiterating this shit. You're all beneath me and anyone else who can think straight and wont swallow the bullshit you feed them. Im not your kid and you have no power over me, and Im going to exercise my power of choice to ignore you and your nonsense.
DJ, Id strongly suggest you do the same. Ignore him and hell go away.
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On 2006-06-23 14:46:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"you all hold facts tightly to your chests and do not let go of anything. there is no such thing as an open mind here.
:roll:
Thats because the facts are the fucking facts and you cant waffle around them in the real world like you can in a program's bubble-world or in some LGAT.
You can't whine about a lack of an "open mind" when it pertains to opening your mind to something thats false, or incorrect, or inherantly abusive.
However, such appeals (especially with an emotional element) are the hallmark of whats essentially brainwashing.
Anyway, Im sick of reiterating this shit. You're all beneath me and anyone else who can think straight and wont swallow the bullshit you feed them. Im not your kid and you have no power over me, and Im going to exercise my power of choice to ignore you and your nonsense.
DJ, Id strongly suggest you do the same. Ignore him and hell go away. "
The problem I see with your statement, Niles, is we are discussing the facts here. You, on the other hand, havent provided anything for us to agree with or disagree with.
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My experience in disputes is that the truth rarely lies as close to the middle as the "somewhere in the middle" people claim it does.
In a dispute, there are three possibilities. Both sides are telling the truth and it's a misunderstanding, both sides are liars, or one side is telling the truth as best they can and the other side is flat lying and obscuring the truth as best they can.
People who habitually lie in disputes have a lot of life experiences where there's their story, and the other guy's story, and the truth is somewhere in the middle.
People who are habituatlly truthful but incredibly naive assume all the disputes they get into involve people who are also doing their best to be truthful. There aren't many people out there in the world who are this naive.
Most people who are habitually truthful have run into enough damned liars to know quite well that when there is a dispute, it is frequently absolutely not a case of the truth being somewhere in the middle.
My experience is that it is usually a good idea, when I meet someone who quotes the platitude of the truth being somewhere in the middle, to take that person's own stories with a very large grain of salt.
I wonder whether the "somewhere in the middle" people we're seeing in this thread are hopelessly naive, or habitual liars?
Julie
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Julie, you have forgotten the eternal quagmire of the hopelessly self-deluded.
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ASR was NEVER licensed and folks their is NO MA Boarding School Association that I know of. ASR IS NOT AND SHOULD BE LICENSED, WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG THAT THE THREAD HAS TO GO ON AND ON AND ON. IF THEY WERE DOING THE RIGHT THING OR INTENDING ON DOING IT THEY WOULD LICENSE. NO BIG DEAL RIGHT? DESISTO DIDN'T WANT TO LICENSE LOST IN COURT - COULDN'T HANDLE BASIC BASIC REGULATIONS, STANDARD, AND OVERSIGHT PACKED UP = LEFT AND IS RUNNING IN FLA WHERE LITTLE IF ANY REGS OR OVERSIGHT IS IN PLACE. SO DO TELL ME EXPECT LOCATION AND PEOPLE, WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ASR AND DESISTO - I THINK NOT MUCH. :flame:
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YAWN.......
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Andrea,
What do you know about the battle over licensing between lawyers for the state and ASR, as stated in the Valley Advocate article I posted.
What happened? Obviously, ASR was not required to license because they remain unlicensed. Do you know anyone at OCCS that might give an explanation for how that decision was made?
I'm glad you're finally putting some attention in ASRs direction.
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-06-23 21:00 ]
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BTW, whadda ya make of this Mar 05 ad from struggling teens.
March 05- Employment Ad at StrugglingTeens
SCHOOL NURSE- Provide medical and programmatic/psychological nursing care to students. Must have current state RN license and knowledge of psychotropic medications. MAB training and experience working with SEVERELY MENTALLY ILL patients is preferred.
RESIDENTIAL MENTORS- Supervise and interact with individual or grouped students to improve caring, socialization, and other life skills. Must have high school diploma or GED and at least of one year of experience in youth corrections, residential treatment, or other related environment. College level courses in Social Sciences preferred.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/employme ... river.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/employment/aeg-acadswiftriver.html)
Didn't the ASR spokesperson say they were taking milder kids. Maybe he meant "sedated" kids. What's MAB training?
Hey, and check out those "Mentors". Parents paying $5000 a month for college prep and their kid hanging out with someone with a GED and
a year in youth corrections.
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On 2006-06-23 22:21:00, Deborah wrote:
"
BTW, whadda ya make of this Mar 05 ad from struggling teens.
March 05- Employment Ad at StrugglingTeens
SCHOOL NURSE- Provide medical and programmatic/psychological nursing care to students. Must have current state RN license and knowledge of psychotropic medications. MAB training and experience working with SEVERELY MENTALLY ILL patients is preferred.
RESIDENTIAL MENTORS- Supervise and interact with individual or grouped students to improve caring, socialization, and other life skills. Must have high school diploma or GED and at least of one year of experience in youth corrections, residential treatment, or other related environment. College level courses in Social Sciences preferred.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/employme ... river.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/employment/aeg-acadswiftriver.html)
Didn't the ASR spokesperson say they were taking milder kids. Maybe he meant "sedated" kids. What's MAB training?
Hey, and check out those "Mentors". Parents paying $5000 a month for college prep and their kid hanging out with someone with a GED and
a year in youth corrections. "
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy:
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I had a new hire paperwork come across my desk, one time, looking for a person with demolition experience, my first response was ?What are we trying to blow up?. It turned out we needed him for his experience in handling, marking and procuring hazardous and dangerous substances.
So I suspect, since ASR doesn t have Severely mentally ill kids, they are looking for some of the other training the person may bring with her, like handling/dispensing med, maybe there is a different (more safe) process for handling meds for this group of kids that may benefit the kids at ASR.
Didn't the ASR spokesperson say they were taking milder kids. Maybe he meant "sedated" kids. What's MAB training?
No, the way I read it, is less violent. When my daughter attended they were no longer taking kids who where very violent, using knives etc on others. It seems like by stating they are taking softer kids they mean they have further extended this policy to include even less violent kids, acting out physically etc.
I am curious too on what MAB training is. Maybe the ASR person can help with that.
[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-06-24 05:05 ]
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MAB - Managing Aggressive Behavior ......Hmmmmm
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On 2006-06-23 08:10:00, TheWho wrote:
"
On 2006-06-23 07:37:00, Deborah wrote:
"
There would be value if ASR and others were required to disclose in bold letters that they are not licensed and monitored by any state agency, and what that means. Like I said, I think parents assume they are licensed, or that "accreditation" includes monitoring of the experimental 'therapeutic' methods."
Yes, your right, which would work, if they were forced to do that. That would get the ball rolling, The parents would then add pressure to get the schools licensed and monitored. There needs to be some catalyst, like what you stated, to get it started.
Ever see those big banners on the side of companies ?ISO 9001 certified?? That is an extremely expensive and time consuming task for some companies, especially if they are small. The people they sell to (larger companies) are demanding they be certified in order to do business them.
If you talk to the people that have gone thru the process they will tell you they are a better company for it, but would have never done it on their own because of the expense and time it took and back then they felt they were doing a good enough job already, so they felt at the time why get certified?
The article you posted is very old compared to the ASR today or even 4 years ago. It did raise some eyebrows in its time though.
"
This ISO analogy is a good reason NOT to trust a licensing process. I work for an ISO certified company. It's a long and expensive process, alright. It's done for PR purposes. The actual certification is a joke.
One employee informed me that employees had to take down phone number lists they had tacked onto their cubicle walls because they were 'non-standard.' When the inspectors/auditors left, they put them back up.
ISO requires procedures for everything. It is one thing to write a procedure and another to follow it. Another employee told me how he simply turned in a set of very outdated procedures. They were accepted.
I'm not impressed with ISO certification.
There are ways around the rules. Licensing of these facilities guarantees nothing. In a worst case, it simply legalizes the immoral process of breaking kids wills.
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ASR New Grad Mom
Posted: 2004-08-24 10:02:00
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I also graduated from ASR very recently on August the 6th. And I can tell you right now that any kid who complained, their parents were manipulated right out of believing them. There was extreme emotional abuse there, and the only reason anyone's behavior was modified was because they were scared shitless of staying there longer or going to a worse program. We were so scared, your own friends turned against you and you couldnt trust them. The group sessions were awful. One of my friends who had issues with sleeping around was in group and the counselor in the room told her that she might as well keep a mattress tied to her back. Daily, I heard awful things about myself and everyday I was just so sad. Places like this are awful and they need to be stopped. ASR isnt even the worst of them but they all need to go.
:nworthy:
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[/quote]
We are a member of the Massachusetts Boarding SChool association (I'm not sure of the exact title) who oversees us. Of course we have to follow all sorts of state and federal regulations. It's silly to think that anyone can just open up a school and run it with no oversight. That doesn't even make sense.
As far as reporting aciidents and such, I don't have specific information regarding that. That is not a part of my job."
[/quote][ This Message was edited by: PFRR on 2006-06-24 06:38 ]
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Listen I can't cut a quote and say what I need to say on the same thing - I will learn in the meantime again in CAPS. ASR WAS NOT REQUIRED TO LICENSE BECAUSE THEY LIED ABOUT THE TYPE OF KIDS THAT WERE THERE, AND YES I AM ON TOP OF THIS WITH THE LICENSING AGENCY. HEY DUMMY WHO CLAIMS TO WORK THERE THEIR IS NO MA ASSOCIATIONS OF BOARDING SCHOOLS - AND NO ASSOCIATION SETS STANDARDS, REGULATES, AND OVERSEES SO GET WITH THE PROGRAM. SCARES ME YOU CLAIM TO WORK WITH THIS VERY POPULATION AND STATE SUCH IDIOTIC THINGS OR EVEN MORE SO MAY BELIEVE THEM. WAKE UP! ASSOCIATION - PAY DUES, MEMBERS, ETC. OCCS IS NO LONGER IT IS AFFILIATED WITH EEC I HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION NOW TO GO BACK TO THE STATE - WHAT I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHAT PISSES ME OFF MORE THAN ANYTHING IS THAT THEY REFUSE TO LICENSE, DESISTO DID THE SAME THING, IF ASR IS FINE AND DOES WHAT THEY SAY THEY DO THEN JUST LICENSE. AS FAR AS LICENSING INSURING ANYTHING NO IT DOES NOT EVER - WHAT IT DOES INSURE THOUGH IS OVERSIGHT, REGULATIONS, AND THAT SOMEONE HAS SOMEPLACE TO GO TO FILE A COMPLAINT THAT WILL BE INVESTIGATED, AND ACTED UPON - RIGHT NOW ASR HAS NO OVERSIGHT AND PARENTS ONLY HAVE WHAT ASR SAYS TO RELY ON. SICK HUH BUT TRUE! BE CAREFUL BE REAL CAREFUL - SECONDLY IT IS NOT UP TO THE PARENTS TO LICENSE IT IS UP TO THE SCHOOL ITSELF. I AM REALLY GETTING SICK OF HAVING TO SAY THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN - ASR KNOWS WHAT THEY NEED TO DO - THEY CHOOSE NOT TO AND HIDE BEHIND THE KIDS THEY HAVE AS THEY ARE THEIR WITH NO IEPS OR DOCUMENTATION OF THEIR SPECIAL NEEDS IN SOME CASES.
MY TAKE AND I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN VERY PUBLIC ABOUT THIS IF YOU ARE GOING TO OPERATE OR EVEN ARE THINKING ABOUT IT IN MA LICENSE OR LEAVE. :wave:
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And as far as the poster who claims to work at ASR come public or email me directly at [email protected] and give a name. what are u afraid of? :???:
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Deb:
Exactly they lied about things - they are going to go in officially again, my first program unlicensed to go after was DeSisto and well you know that story they were ordered by the courts to license, couldn't handle the "right thing to do" packed up and left - and yes are in FLA under a different name, still same people where in FLA they just don't care. ASR is next on my list one at a time, these things cost the state a large amount of money, and the programs fight it to the hilt, I just can't understand how anyone can open their doors and do what they do and not want to adhere to oversight, standards, and support. You would think if they were the best they could be this would not be an issue. And the fight goes on... Hey no transporters are licensed to do business in MA that I can find and won't be if we keep up the fight as a matter of fact if I find out a transporter enters this state to remove a kid, I will report the parents and the transporter to the Child Welfare Agency.
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On 2006-06-24 06:53:00, PFRR wrote:
"Deb:
Exactly they lied about things - they are going to go in officially again, my first program unlicensed to go after was DeSisto and well you know that story they were ordered by the courts to license, couldn't handle the "right thing to do" packed up and left - and yes are in FLA under a different name, still same people where in FLA they just don't care. ASR is next on my list one at a time, these things cost the state a large amount of money, and the programs fight it to the hilt, I just can't understand how anyone can open their doors and do what they do and not want to adhere to oversight, standards, and support. You would think if they were the best they could be this would not be an issue. And the fight goes on... Hey no transporters are licensed to do business in MA that I can find and won't be if we keep up the fight as a matter of fact if I find out a transporter enters this state to remove a kid, I will report the parents and the transporter to the Child Welfare Agency. "
I dont think ASR takes kids under escort, maybe the person from ASR can let us know if this is true or not.
PFRR, Take the "CapsLock" off, I tEnD to skIp OvEr tHoSe, tHeY aRe tOuGh tO rEAd aNd tAkES aWhIlE tO gEt tHrOuGh.
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PFRR, leave the CAPS on...maybe that will run THE WHO off.
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Na, I'll just skip over them, no biggie, you can leave them on, if it helps and others seem to like it. Just giving my opinion.
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On 2006-06-24 10:37:00, TheWho wrote:
"Na, I'll just skip over them, no biggie, you can leave them on, if it helps and others seem to like it. Just giving my opinion."
Nobody likes it. It's so fucking hard to read.
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On 2006-06-24 11:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-06-24 10:37:00, TheWho wrote:
"Na, I'll just skip over them, no biggie, you can leave them on, if it helps and others seem to like it. Just giving my opinion."
Nobody likes it. It's so fucking hard to read."
Thank you, so thats 2 votes against using all caps.
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Voting for the caps. Don't really like caps, just want to vote agaist anything Who likes. What a jerk.
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On 2006-06-24 11:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Voting for the caps. Don't really like caps, just want to vote agaist anything Who likes. What a jerk."
Hey, I dislike him as much as you but all caps SUCKS!
However, I admire your dedication!! :wave:
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On 2006-06-23 11:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
This article is from 1997 when Dean worked there for about 2 months. The school did shut down and repoened under a whole new administration. The school is an entirely different entity than it was 9 years ago. "
Kent was there 6 months.
Kraft's article was published in May 98 and stated, "For (Dean) Kent, it seemed a natural move to take a job last July cooking meals for the staff at ASR.
The state started looking closely at the school several months ago after Kent spoke out about things he'd seen and heard while working there. As a cook at ASR last year, Kent grew increasingly disturbed by the way the staff treated students.
As ASR prepared for its fall session, Kent said, program leaders from Oregon gave the other locally recruited workers only one briefing.
Kent is an artist, and in the winter taught a course in mask-making in addition to his kitchen duties.
Kent said that when he left ASR in mid-January there were no science laboratories, no more than one or two computer work stations, and only a minimal library.
http://old.valleyadvocate.com/articles/swiftriver.html (http://old.valleyadvocate.com/articles/swiftriver.html)
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On 2006-06-24 12:06:00, Deborah wrote:
"
On 2006-06-23 11:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
This article is from 1997 when Dean worked there for about 2 months. The school did shut down and repoened under a whole new administration. The school is an entirely different entity than it was 9 years ago. "
Kent was there 6 months.
Kraft's article was published in May 98 and stated, "For (Dean) Kent, it seemed a natural move to take a job last July cooking meals for the staff at ASR.
The state started looking closely at the school several months ago after Kent spoke out about things he'd seen and heard while working there. As a cook at ASR last year, Kent grew increasingly disturbed by the way the staff treated students.
As ASR prepared for its fall session, Kent said, program leaders from Oregon gave the other locally recruited workers only one briefing.
Kent is an artist, and in the winter taught a course in mask-making in addition to his kitchen duties.
Kent said that when he left ASR in mid-January there were no science laboratories, no more than one or two computer work stations, and only a minimal library.
http://old.valleyadvocate.com/articles/swiftriver.html (http://old.valleyadvocate.com/articles/swiftriver.html)
"
Thanks Deborah, but the school has come a long ways in 8 years, whole new direction, administration etc.
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On 2006-06-24 12:12:00, TheWho wrote:
Thanks Deborah, but the school has come a long ways in 8 years, whole new direction, administration etc. "
You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
Did I get the saying right? Oh well, if not you get what I mean.
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On 2006-06-22 15:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Boredom on the weekends is definitely worse in the winter when we are cooped up, but we do offer ski/ snowboarding club, snow shoeing, crafts, use of our indoor athletic facilities and indoor climbing wall. In the summer we send kids outside a lot and try to have a lot of organized sports and activities. As I'm sure you know, it can be difficult to get teens excited about participating in group events- many complain and perfer to do their own thing. Once they are pushed to try something new, they often love it. So it's a bit of a push pull. If we had more money or bigger vans, we could get more kids off campus, volunteering, visiting museums and other cultural spots, bring more varied performers to ASR, etc.
We have not had a kid try to run away in at least 6 months. We are taking much "softer" kids than we did a few year back, and they are generally more compliant and less out of control. So they are more apt to talk things through with staff instead of trying to run. We do not confront as hard as we used to. We give kids more healthy outlets for their frustration than we used to.
I would say that most kids adapt well to our environment and are happy on a daily basis. I often see kids laughing and participating in fun events, yet then go into a phone call with their parents and talk about how much they hate ASR. I wish I had a videotape to show the parents that life at ASR is a pretty fun, very safe place. Once kids make it thru the halfway point, they usually can admit that they are making great friendships and love most of the staff. Of course, there are always a couple kids who cannot adapt and are abnormally unhappy at ASR, and usually they move onto other places before long."
[/quote
Your notion that kids are happy on daily basis is refuted by the test results in the Shapiro study. And BTW, the kids did not leave their or waive their first amendment rights because ASR does not have a fence. You say that ASR is taking softer kids. This assessment is based on exactly what? If they are softer why do they need to be in residential treatment?[ This Message was edited by: Badpuppy on 2006-06-24 15:07 ]
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BadPuppy, Let me step in and see if I can take a shot at answering some of these. Hopefully the ASR person will respond also.
Your notion that kids are happy on daily basis is refuted by the test results in the Shapiro study.
I think he/she is basing this on her observations on a daily bases as things are today, 2006.
And BTW, the kids did not leave their or waive their first amendment rights because ASR does not have a fence.
Agreed, but the fact that they don?t have any fences and they haven?t had anyone attempt to leave on their own (for 6 months) is an indication of how desperate they may or may not be to get out of there. This sort of plays into the next question:
You say that ASR is taking softer kids. This assessment is based on exactly what? If they are softer why do they need to be in residential treatment?[
They, ASR, use to take kids that had used knives to settle battles and/or were very aggressive and I believe what he/she means by softer is that the kids are less aggressive and the acceptance criteria for getting into ASR has changed and is more competitive. I don?t believe they take any kids by force.
It really seems like they are taking strides to improve their success rates. I wish there were more current studies so we could review the data.
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All right, let's cut the shit, shall we?
The whole business about kids not running away, kids not needing to be taken by force, no fences, is all probably true.
By limiting its intake to kids who can be controlled through intimidation and fear-by-authority, ASR paints itself as a "progressive" school, minimizes violence (and thereby prevents embarrassing news articles), and creates the illusion of the remotest sort of consent.
All by just taking the kids who won't fight back.
It's not something to be proud of, Who.
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Who is the Clinical Director?
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By limiting its intake to kids who can be controlled through intimidation and fear-by-authority
I didnt see where this was said? Every private school in the country has acceptance criteria that must be met in order to attend or be accepted. How can you single out one school and pretend to know how they screen their applicants
ASR paints itself as a "progressive" school, minimizes violence (and thereby prevents embarrassing news articles)
I think that is the point, why would a school want violence, especially if there are kids there who are very sensitive to it? Plus parents don?t want their kids exposed to other kids who are violent.
No business/school in the country wants violence and to end up on the 6 o?clock news, this isn?t unique to ASR.
and creates the illusion of the remotest sort of consent.
I don?t think they are trying to create an illusion of consent. Parents are well aware that some of the kids ran out of options that were working and had to make some hard choices, kids included. Most kids don?t want to be in any school, hell we had kids taking off from the school I attended. They were promptly kicked out and the same happens at ASR.
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hell we had kids taking off from the school I attended.
Obiter.
FUCKING.
Dicta.
(Translation: Words in passing. Refers to the aside that means more than it's supposed to.)
So you just needed to pass it on, eh? Is that what this is all about?
You can shit out all the bullshit about "out of options" and "hard choices" you want, Who; it doesn't work here. Haven't you learned that by now? It's nonsense. We know it's nonsense. YOU know it's nonsense. The parents reading this site have quickly found a lot of other options out of reflex instinct. They, too, know it's nonsense. There wasn't a real, rational reason you sent your daughter away, and you very well know it. That's why you're here, Who. Not to educate anyone. Not even to prosletyze for ASR. You're here to justify yourself. You're here to defend your ass getting shipped off, because otherwise you'd have to take a hard look at the brainwashing you received.
Does your daughter even talk to you anymore, I wonder? I'm guessing not. Either that or she makes polite conversation when appropriate, just to make sure she doesn't get taken out of your will.
You were a piece of shit when you started posting here, and a piece of shit you remain. In your entire one thousand, one hundred and forty-nine posts here, you have accomplished exactly nothing. Your decision was still unjustifiable, and you're still a mockery of a human being.
Now get the fuck off our forum.
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On 2006-06-24 16:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"hell we had kids taking off from the school I attended.
Obiter.
FUCKING.
Dicta.
(Translation: Words in passing. Refers to the aside that means more than it's supposed to.)
So you just needed to pass it on, eh? Is that what this is all about?
You can shit out all the bullshit about "out of options" and "hard choices" you want, Who; it doesn't work here. Haven't you learned that by now? It's nonsense. We know it's nonsense. YOU know it's nonsense. The parents reading this site have quickly found a lot of other options out of reflex instinct. They, too, know it's nonsense. There wasn't a real, rational reason you sent your daughter away, and you very well know it. That's why you're here, Who. Not to educate anyone. Not even to prosletyze for ASR. You're here to justify yourself. You're here to defend your ass getting shipped off, because otherwise you'd have to take a hard look at the brainwashing you received.
Does your daughter even talk to you anymore, I wonder? I'm guessing not. Either that or she makes polite conversation when appropriate, just to make sure she doesn't get taken out of your will.
You were a piece of shit when you started posting here, and a piece of shit you remain. In your entire one thousand, one hundred and forty-nine posts here, you have accomplished exactly nothing. Your decision was still unjustifiable, and you're still a mockery of a human being.
Now get the fuck off our forum."
You're here to defend your ass getting shipped off, because otherwise you'd have to take a hard look at the brainwashing you received.
I think you must have misread one of my posts, I never attended military school or a TBS. The school I was referring to was a parochial school. Interesting enough it did have a fence around it and the gate was closed all day except for lunch time. I could have been brain washed by the nuns there, but I doubt it.
Anyway, it is obvious that you dislike my position, opinions and are very closed minded. I think you are upset because I disagreed with you over the past few days and exposed some of your short comings and I am sorry about that but you really pushed it. You should check your facts the next time before you call someone else a liar.
But you are right, we are all here for a reason, but lets be civil and respect each others opinions and experiences. Because when you think about it that?s all they really are, there is no malice or intent to hurt.
Take the weekend, relax, cool down, Log back in on Monday and start fresh. The information that we are providing parents is helping them and their kids and we need both perspectives so keep it honest and moving forward, just calm down on the language a little it tends to side track the issues and put people off.
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I think you are upset because I disagreed with you over the past few days
I think you have no idea who the fuck I am.
And guess what? I'm right.
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On 2006-06-24 17:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I think you are upset because I disagreed with you over the past few days
I think you have no idea who the fuck I am.
And guess what? I'm right."
Of course you are, that?s the way it needs to be with you and you know what? It is okay.
New topic, new week. Lets focus on others, the kids and parents looking for help and guidance.
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There's no sense in pretending this argument has any validity or that there's anyone else reading this, Who. You can make as many proxy anonymi as you like. The parents reading this have already all left this thread and won't ever be sending their kids.
Or, for the kids, going to that or any other program. Handcuffing yourself to the bed works, but I strongly recommend locking your door at night, barricading it with heavy objects, and having a knife on your person at all times. Don't do the extended stab like you see in kung fu movies; rush towards the target and keep your blade clutched close to your chest. Only perform the stab when you're inches away.
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Who, again STFU you stupid ass.
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On 2006-06-24 16:24:00, TheWho wrote:
Most kids don?t want to be in any school,
Maybe most kids raised by YOU. I don't want to go to work, but I do. Most kids that don't want to go to school still do. A good many do want to go. Really, where do you come up with this shit?
hell we had kids taking off from the school I attended.
I took off from my high school all the time. I got a detention or suspension.
They were promptly kicked out and the same happens at ASR.
"
If a kid 'walks away' from ASR (not that I really believe they can) they're immediately kicked out?
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Who, AGAIN you are making statements that are not valid. MOST kids do like to go to school. It is the minority of children/kids who dislike going to school.
And, I am not surprised to know that YOU would know those that disliked school.
Again: STFU
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Who, I think you must be new here, since you seem to know nothing about the teen help industry.
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I know. It accounts for his believing that there is a need for programs such as this. THIS is how he views kids. What in the world would these parents DO without the precious programs? Gee, I wonder how anyone survived adolescence before the advent of them?
Adolescence is not a pathology you fucking idiot!
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Adolescence is not a pathology you fucking idiot!
With more idiots like WHO around, it's only a matter of time until it is though, if it already has not happened.
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Maybe most kids raised by YOU. I don't want to go to work, but I do. Most kids that don't want to go to school still do. A good many do want to go. Really, where do you come up with this shit?
I believe you probably go to work because you have to and kids go to school because they are told to. If given the option of staying home and getting a paycheck or a child staying home and playing a game boy etc. which would the 2 of you choose. If you don?t go to work or the child to school there are fairly severe consequences, going broke, losing your house, Child getting grounded, DSS taking your kid away etc.
I took off from my high school all the time. I got a detention or suspension.
I am sure each school is different. You could get away with it once, at my high school, but the second time you left school in the middle of the day or ran off, you were gone. Public schools, I believe is more flexible because they have to take everyone or at least most kids.
If a kid 'walks away' from ASR (not that I really believe they can) they're immediately kicked out?
This is what I was told and I will stand corrected if someone who knows the rules better can clarify this for us. I would be interested to know for sure, myself. I believe you are given a warning and if you continue to walk off or not participate in school etc. you get kicked out.
I do know they can walk off because my daughter did it, there is no question there.
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As for the big public high school here, if you miss classes 6 times, you automatically fail the course and have to retake it.
As for being kicked out of ASR for walking off,
(and it is very easy for any kid who wants to, no fences..),in some cases the kid is expelled. Many times, they are given a second chance. ANY student there knows these rules and it is one of the easiest ways to be kicked out if one wants to(other than breaking the sex, violence and drug agreements). ASR is NOT a lock-down facility.
Also, it is current policy not to accept escorted kids. They must walk in with their parents (albeit none are too happy about being sent to ANY program).
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Not a lock down? I didn't know that. So kids can go off-campus (sic) and visit their parents for the holidays? If they run they aren't caught and forced back to the facility, but instead, given a chance to talk to child protective services or law enforcement if they so request?
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Actually, they are allowed to visit with parents for the winter holidays. They are also allowed to request extra home visits for special occasions (for instance mine was just home for his sister's graduation).
I am assuming that your sarcastic comment was referring to walking off of campus WITHOUT permission from either the school OR their parents.Yes,the authoritues are called to ensure that the student is safe until either A- ASR allows them to return to the school or B- their parents come to retrieve them to home, wilderness (again) or a lockdown.
If they are NOT expelled, then it is the parents' decision as to where the kid goes from there- as they are legally responsible for them until they turn 18. Don't blame the school for what parents choose.
Again, should a kid want out of ASR, all they need do is walk away!
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On 2006-06-25 14:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Actually, they are allowed to visit with parents for the winter holidays. They are also allowed to request extra home visits for special occasions (for instance mine was just home for his sister's graduation).
I am assuming that your sarcastic comment was referring to walking off of campus WITHOUT permission from either the school OR their parents.Yes,the authoritues are called to ensure that the student is safe until either A- ASR allows them to return to the school or B- their parents come to retrieve them to home, wilderness (again) or a lockdown.
If they are NOT expelled, then it is the parents' decision as to where the kid goes from there- as they are legally responsible for them until they turn 18. Don't blame the school for what parents choose.
Again, should a kid want out of ASR, all they need do is walk away!"
Well alrighty then - start walking kids! Except where are they supposed to walk and what happens if their parents pull the proverbial "EXIT PLAN" on them? It's my way or the highway? Do they at least get a few bucks to catch a bus home or call a friend or relative?
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The phone company has an option, called calling COLLECT! The school is not out in the middle of nowhere- there are pay phones nearby.
Again, it is the parents decision what happens should a student choose to walk.
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Hopefully if the kids decides to walk, they can call a friend collect and have them come get 'em or wire them some money.
Sure beats the alternative.
Is this "walk free" policy posted in the kids' dorms, bathrooms, cafeterial, everywhere you'd expect to see such an important policy?
No panic locks on the doors? No motion detectors in the hallways? Wow.
Thanks!
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On 2006-06-25 14:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The phone company has an option, called calling COLLECT! The school is not out in the middle of nowhere- there are pay phones nearby.
Again, it is the parents decision what happens should a student choose to walk. "
So in other words, one kid might get some support from a parent, while another kid gets jack shit.
Yeah, that's some WALK FREE policy.
Who you kidding here program parent?
:smokin:
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It is called a therapeutic boarding school-
obviously meant for therapy and school
it is not JUVIE or a 24 hour lockdown center
you don't give the kids enough credit- of course they know that they are free to leave, legally speaking
You seem to be evading the issue that it is the parent's responsibility, not ASR's or the kids.
all I am saying is yes, they are free to walk,
whatever consequences that happen after that are not up to the school (unless of course the student chooses to stay). If you want out just WALK!
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Same as any other boarding school, what do you want? Scheduled buses?
He/She said they can leave anytime the kids want to or they can stay at school.
Simple, I dont know how they can do more.
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what a parent chooses to do support their kid or get jack-shit is the luck of the draw- you can choose your friends but not your parents
unless of course, the kid wants to go to court to be emancipated.............
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On 2006-06-25 14:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Same as any other boarding school, what do you want? Scheduled buses?
He/She said they can leave anytime the kids want to or they can stay at school.
Simple, I dont know how they can do more."
Sure, why can't the kid use the school van to be transported off the grounds by the school safely to the local bus station or airport? Hell, their parents paid enough for their therapuetic boarding, surely there's a slush fund somewhere.
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I'm sorely tempted to go to ASR with a megaphone and a bus.
"ATTENTION KIDS: IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE, GET THE FUCK ON BOARD!!"
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On 2006-06-25 15:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'm sorely tempted to go to ASR with a megaphone and a bus.
"ATTENTION KIDS: IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE, GET THE FUCK ON BOARD!!""
You could do that and you would probably leave pretty much empty. I am sure someone will be having a bad day and get on, though.
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It?s nice to get conformation from someone else, thank you ASR person. I have been mentioning this policy (and many others) for about a year, on and off and I don?t think anyone believed me. Most are use to places like straight which is much stricter. I really don?t expect anyone to come out and say ?wow, I didn?t know that, I guess all TBS and RTC are not all alike.? This guy, Niles, started to think independently about 6 months ago and he got blasted by most of the regulars here (which was too bad, he seems to be sharp) and quickly rescinded his position and got back in line.
But the information will serve the purpose of informing the people here that things are changing, not all schools are the same (There is hope after all) and that many kids are getting the help they need and deserve.
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On 2006-06-25 15:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'm sorely tempted to go to ASR with a megaphone and a bus.
"ATTENTION KIDS: IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE, GET THE FUCK ON BOARD!!""
::bigsmilebounce:: ::birthday:: ::blushing:: ::drummer:: ::bwahaha:: ::rocker::
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Sure, why can't the kid use the school van to be transported off the grounds by the school safely to the local bus station or airport? Hell, their parents paid enough for their therapuetic boarding, surely there's a slush fund somewhere.
Because they are responsible for them. Its really not a matter of transportation cost. If their parents are meeting them or agree that they can fly off to wherever, then I am sure this can be arranged.
Here is a different way to look at it. If a parent sent their kid to say an outward bound program or summer experience overseas etc. the kids can?t just decide we are going to walk away from the group and go home, if they are under aged. The parents would have to be notified and agree to allow them to fly home early and then they would be escorted to the airport etc. If they just ran off the local authorities would need to be notified. These are not decisions the schools or programs can make on their own. This applies to the TBS?s also.
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Last post was mine,
I like the "Little Drummer Guy" (emotocon) in the previous post, I have seen them around a lot lately and so far he is my favorite.
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On 2006-06-25 15:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'm sorely tempted to go to ASR with a megaphone and a bus.
"ATTENTION KIDS: IF YOU WANT TO LEAVE, GET THE FUCK ON BOARD!!""
Yeah, ride the FREEDOM BUS. Sounds good to me!
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Who, what's with all the "the last post was mine." You have a 1000++ posts here. QUIT TAKING UP SPACE!
Oh, and STFU.
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He forgets to log back in after he uses his proxies to pretend that he's more people than he is. Pathetic really.
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Yea, he does talk to himself a lot, among other things too, I suppose.
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I only log in when I am tell the truth.
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The last post was mine, Sorry again. Couldnt resist.
[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-06-25 19:48 ]
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On 2006-06-25 18:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Who, what's with all the "the last post was mine." You have a 1000++ posts here. QUIT TAKING UP SPACE!
Oh, and STFU."
And lay off the lengthy quotes too.
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On 2006-06-25 19:42:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-06-25 18:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Who, what's with all the "the last post was mine." You have a 1000++ posts here. QUIT TAKING UP SPACE!
Oh, and STFU."
And lay off the lengthy quotes too."
Which would they be?
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The Who wrote:
"It?s nice to get conformation from someone else[/b], thank you ASR person."
Oh, I bet that is nice for you, Who.
"CONFORMation"? Slip of the tongue, or fingers as it were? Too funny.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-06-26 04:44 ]
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On 2006-06-23 22:21:00, Deborah wrote:
"
BTW, whadda ya make of this Mar 05 ad from struggling teens.
March 05- Employment Ad at StrugglingTeens
SCHOOL NURSE- Provide medical and programmatic/psychological nursing care to students. Must have current state RN license and knowledge of psychotropic medications. MAB training and experience working with SEVERELY MENTALLY ILL patients is preferred.
RESIDENTIAL MENTORS- Supervise and interact with individual or grouped students to improve caring, socialization, and other life skills. Must have high school diploma or GED and at least of one year of experience in youth corrections, residential treatment, or other related environment. College level courses in Social Sciences preferred.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/employme ... river.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/employment/aeg-acadswiftriver.html)
Didn't the ASR spokesperson say they were taking milder kids. Maybe he meant "sedated" kids. What's MAB training?
Hey, and check out those "Mentors". Parents paying $5000 a month for college prep and their kid hanging out with someone with a GED and
a year in youth corrections. "
Niether of these are ads for ASR. Check the paper and the real ads are nothing like this. Check The Daily Hampshire Gazette.
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On 2006-06-24 06:47:00, PFRR wrote:
"And as far as the poster who claims to work at ASR come public or email me directly at [email protected] and give a name. what are u afraid of? :???: "
I'm not afraid of anything- just refusing to continue a conversation with someone who speaks so disrespectfully.
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***Niether of these are ads for ASR. Check the paper and the real ads are nothing like this. Check The Daily Hampshire Gazette.
Excuse me, but they are specifically for ASR.
ACADEMY AT SWIFT RIVER
CUMMINGTON, MASSACHUSETTS
Transforming lives. Helping troubled teens reach their full potential. It is our passion and our mission, and a calling like no other. As the industry leader in providing education services to youth and their families for the last two decades, Aspen Education Group's solid strength gives unparalleled support to its professional team so they in turn can provide help and hope to youth and families in need.
Located in Western Massachusetts, surrounded by the scenic Berkshire Mountains, the Academy at Swift River is a college preparatory therapeutic boarding school that specializes in working with adolescents ages 13-18 (Grades 9-12) having social, academic and familial difficulties. The Academy at Swift River combines cognitive and emotive approaches in order to allow children time for natural growth within the classroom, the family, the environment and themselves. The 15-month program also provides experiential community service experiences as part of the curriculum.
We currently seek the following professionals to join our team:
SCHOOL NURSE
Provide medical and programmatic/psychological nursing care to students. Must have current state RN license and knowledge of psychotropic medications. MAB training and experience working with severely mentally ill patients is preferred.
RESIDENTIAL MENTORS
Supervise and interact with individual or grouped students to improve caring, socialization, and other life skills. Must have high school diploma or GED and at least of one year of experience in youth corrections, residential treatment, or other related environment. College level courses in Social Sciences preferred.
For more information about Aspen Education Group,
visit our website at http://www.aspeneducation.com (http://www.aspeneducation.com).
To view up-to-date job listings for opportunities throughout the country and to apply for positions online, visit http://www.aegjobs.com (http://www.aegjobs.com).
For immediate consideration, forward your resume (noting position & ad code ST-AASR) to Armando Arredondo. Fax: 562-468-4407; or send email to http://www.strugglingteens.com/employme ... river.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/employment/aeg-acadswiftriver.html)
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These are pretty sad "qualifications" they're looking for...
With all the talk from ASR programmies one would be led to believe there are "improvements" happening there. In reality they've had about 75% turnover in the past 3 months and they're replacing the uneducated, untrained staff with more of the same.
There are still no licensed teachers, many without masters degrees and some with no degrees at all.
There are still unlicensed, undereducated counseling staff, some without masters degrees in any discipline.
This place looks like it's rolling straight downhill. All the red flags are there and the quality of the staff is lower than any public school or community shelter.
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Niether of these are ads for ASR. Check the paper and the real ads are nothing like this. Check The Daily Hampshire Gazette.
You are so FOS that it isn't funny. There are the ads and these are the incredibly low standards set by ASR.
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On 2006-06-21 16:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am happy to engage in a honest conversation.
1) No, we do not ever put children in forced isolation. Occasionally students participate in voluntary solos for a couple of hours to reflect and work on writing assignments.
2) No, students are not forced to look into the mirror for hours. What would be the purpose of that?
3) We do not withhold food. We have a great food service called Sage that does an excellent job.
4) They are encouraged to write letter home frequently, and also are encourgaed to write to friends who will be positive influences when the students graduate.
5) They each have a scheduled call home at least once a week. Many of them also do conference calls with their counselors to help them address more sensitive issues with family members.
6) The bathrooms are available any time the kids or staff need to use them.
7) We have Work Projects on the weekends as a consequence for negative behavior. This includes doing chores such as gardening or cleaning as well as community service. It lasts 2 hours and the staff work with the kids. The kids are also assigned to crews and do 20 minutes of general cleaning each morning after breakfast. This involves cleaning the dining room, straightening up common areas- general cleaning to take care of our space. We have a maintenance team that does repairs and cleaning beyond basic chores that most kids would help with at home.
I hope this is helpful."
From Valerie Shapiro's Study:
http://groups.colgate.edu/cjs/student_p ... hapiro.pdf (http://groups.colgate.edu/cjs/student_papers/2002/VShapiro.pdf)
Many other restrictions also exist, but with less severe consequences. For example, there is no borrowing of clothing, no retreating to the dorm rooms, no shirts without collars, no facial hair, no all black outfits, no wasting food, no frayed clothing, no eating outside of mealtime, no nail polish, no concert t-shirts, no feet on the furniture, no untied shoelaces, no hats indoors, no shorts with less than a five-inch inseam, no baggy clothing, no bare feet, no make-up, and no hemp or excessive jewelry. Violations are met with punishments such as: doing dishes, getting work projects on the weekends, reflective writing assignments, STARING AT YOURSELF IN THE MIRROR FOR EXTENSIVE PERIODS OF TIME, losing money at the school store, eating last, getting reading assignments, BEING PUT IN ISOLATION, mandating an ?older? student to escort a ?younger? throughout the day, sleeping on the floor in the night security office, a body search, or creating a written confessional list of your behavior violations and the violations of your peers.
Rewards for positive behaviors include: admittance to the Saturday nightmovie, writing home for a personal item such as a piece of sports equipment or a musical instrument, PERMISSION TO DIAL YOUR HOME PHONE NUMBER BY YOURSELF, more money in the school store, earning higher weekly trust rankings from the staff, more time without supervision, PERMISSION TO WRITE SIBLINGS AND EVENTUALLY THREE FRIENDS FROM HOME, the right to put photographs from home on the dorm walls, longer phone calls to parents, PERMISSION TO SEND AND RECEIVE YOUR LETTERS SEALED WITHOUT STAFF REVIEW, membership in activity clubs for snowboarding or theatre, all-star trips during the two weeks in between school semesters, earning 5 personal CDs, and becoming an enrollment aid for incoming students (which is a highly desired position as it involves missing class). See Appendix A for a more detailed description of the phases of treatment.
The kids at HLA weren't impressed with Sage Food Service. While an improvement, they complained about too much fried food.
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To Deborah,
I have a student currently enrolled and I am not sure where you got much of the information. If it was Shapiro's study from 2002, it is time to update your information
(wherever you got it from).
Yes, many of the things that you have mentioned are current (ex no facial hair). Other things like no jewelery is untrue. No, they may not wear jewelery in nose or belly piercings (this also is a rule at many schools). They may wear jewelery, just not in excess. It is true that no make-up is allowed. This is not some horrible punishment.
Allegations like sleeping on the floor at night at in an office or placing a student in isolation (or looking into a mirror) are ridiculous. The main infractions are breaking of the 3 major agreements, no sex, no violence and no drugs. As parents, we wholeheartly agree with this philosophy, as would any good parent in a program or not. As for minor infractions, writing assignments and early morning awakening, losing store money or the movie are not cruel. Kids in upper school can earn i-pods and trips on weekends to movies, bowling, canoeing, rock climbing, skiing etc.. are all offered to those who abide by the rules. It is like the real world in that privileges have to be earned. Along with that, there are consequences for negative behavior.
I HATE that posters on this website cite outdated and inaccurate data. Many things have changed for the better. So unless you have personal first hand knowledge, I suggest that you refrain from quoting information that you can't confirm.
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Most of the information on this site is quite outdated. Deborah in particular is good at citing outdated materials- even about schools that don't even exist anymore. This place is like a time warp- no program is allowed to change or develop. It is what it was......
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Stop lying, programmie. The allegations were true in the 90's, they were true in 2002, and they're true now.
"BUT YOU WEREN'T IN A PROGRAM RIGHT THIS SECOND!" doesn't fucking work.
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Gargling milk,
There is no need to swear to get your point across. Th only points of the anons t are making is that it is really unfair of you to close your mind to the possibilty that some of the programs have changed and are continuing to change for the better in 2006! We realize that you want them all to be shut down, but start working on reforming the systems at home that might be able to stop destructive behaviors before it gets far enough to warrant out of the home placement. Start with establishing AA/NA for adolescents. My son was turned off by adults uisng cocaine, heroin and ecstasy and couldn't relate. Therapists at home are totally unprepared or able to deal with the problems of troubled youths. If you can get support places at home, perhaps RTC's and TBS's won't be needed in the future. I urge you to find ways of getting more current info about programs today in the meantime.
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On 2006-06-27 20:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To Deborah,
I have a student currently enrolled and I am not sure where you got much of the information. If it was Shapiro's study from 2002, it is time to update your information
(wherever you got it from).
Yes, many of the things that you have mentioned are current (ex no facial hair). Other things like no jewelery is untrue. No, they may not wear jewelery in nose or belly piercings (this also is a rule at many schools). They may wear jewelery, just not in excess. It is true that no make-up is allowed. This is not some horrible punishment.
Allegations like sleeping on the floor at night at in an office or placing a student in isolation (or looking into a mirror) are ridiculous. The main infractions are breaking of the 3 major agreements, no sex, no violence and no drugs. As parents, we wholeheartly agree with this philosophy, as would any good parent in a program or not. As for minor infractions, writing assignments and early morning awakening, losing store money or the movie are not cruel. Kids in upper school can earn i-pods and trips on weekends to movies, bowling, canoeing, rock climbing, skiing etc.. are all offered to those who abide by the rules. It is like the real world in that privileges have to be earned. Along with that, there are consequences for negative behavior.
I HATE that posters on this website cite outdated and inaccurate data. Many things have changed for the better. So unless you have personal first hand knowledge, I suggest that you refrain from quoting information that you can't confirm."
How do you explain teachers with no degrees (current)? Counselors without masters degrees or licenses to practice (current)? Counselors with only undergraduate degrees not related to mental health services (current)? Residential mentors without even high school diplomas (current)? 10 years and counting of unaccredited academics (current)? Approximately 75% turnover in the last three months (current)?
It seems like ASR is changing, but for the worse. Aside from this disconcerting trend, it still uses the same program of coerced conformance and dangerous LGAT seminars ("workshops") run by inexperienced and uneducated staff.
There are just too many huge red flags flying full mast to justify your commentary, parent.
_________________
"Compassion is the basis of morality."
-Arnold Schopenhauer[ This Message was edited by: Dysfunction Junction on 2006-06-28 05:33 ]
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DJ,
As for therapist qualifications (which is the MAIN reason we chose ASR) our son's therapist has a BS in Science from UMAss,an MSW in Clinical SOcial WOrk from SMith and A post graduate fellowshhip at Harvard. In addition, she has lots of experieces counseling and educating both kids and adults.
I would think that this makes her quite qualified to counsel. I would also urge you to check out the other current therapists who also have good credentials.
As for the academics, a 75% turnover is due to the small number of teachers on staff, so the number looks worse than it is. One very qualified teache is on Maternity leave, and one is pursuing graduate school work in her field. Just a quick note, we personally did not choose ASR for the acdemics (I would have chosen a private school for that). His QPA and test scores are quite good and he will get into a good 4 year program next year.
As for the LGAT style seminars, if you read my posts, they have changed the format to make it more positive and self-esteem building over the past month or two. So yes, you do need to do some research in this department before passing judgement on current practices at ASR since 2002.
My only point is that it is unfair to group all TBS/RTC programs as abusive and uncaring, I can't speak for other programs but only first hand from our experience. There is no perfect school (at home or away).
-
Well Anon,
You can't have it both ways.
A debate went on here for days. There were pages of defense for the validity of that study. So, is the study invalid? Who has deemed it so?
Are you suggesting Shapiro fabricated the "allegations" (sleeping on the floor at night at in an office or placing a student in isolation, looking into a mirror). I agree, they are ridiculous, the allegations aren't. Those are very common techinues used in the industry.
Given that you don't live on campus with your child, you can't honestly say you know what's happening on a daily basis? The only one's with real first-hand experience are those who live it.
Please give your best shot at convincing myself and others that those things aren't happening now. How do you KNOW they aren't?
-
Given that you don't live on campus with your child, you can't honestly say you know what's happening on a daily basis? The only one's with real first-hand experience are those who live it.
Please give your best shot at convincing myself and others that those things aren't happening now. How do you KNOW they aren't? "
You don't live on campus, either. How are you so sure they ARE happening? Argument cuts both ways.
-
***So yes, you do need to do some research in this department before passing judgement on current practices at ASR since 2002.
What does your research show? What changes have occured since 2002?
-
On 2006-06-28 06:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"DJ,
As for therapist qualifications (which is the MAIN reason we chose ASR) our son's therapist has a BS in Science from UMAss,an MSW in Clinical SOcial WOrk from SMith and A post graduate fellowshhip at Harvard. In addition, she has lots of experieces counseling and educating both kids and adults.
I would think that this makes her quite qualified to counsel. I would also urge you to check out the other current therapists who also have good credentials.
As for the academics, a 75% turnover is due to the small number of teachers on staff, so the number looks worse than it is. One very qualified teache is on Maternity leave, and one is pursuing graduate school work in her field. Just a quick note, we personally did not choose ASR for the acdemics (I would have chosen a private school for that). His QPA and test scores are quite good and he will get into a good 4 year program next year.
As for the LGAT style seminars, if you read my posts, they have changed the format to make it more positive and self-esteem building over the past month or two. So yes, you do need to do some research in this department before passing judgement on current practices at ASR since 2002.
My only point is that it is unfair to group all TBS/RTC programs as abusive and uncaring, I can't speak for other programs but only first hand from our experience. There is no perfect school (at home or away).
"
I actually was talking about counselors, not therapists. There are zero licensed counselors and many with substandard education or none at all.
As to the teachers, there are at least two on staff with no degrees whatsoever. How can this be happening? How can someone be qualified to teach without even having a degree? Did you ever have a highschool teacher with no more education than you had at the time? It's absurd to defend this.
75% turnover rate was for all staff, not just teachers.
As for the seminars, they have zero therapeutic value. The very premise they are based upon is ineffective and damaging. Making some changes to the tone/format may help reduce damage, but hardly increases effectiveness.
So, what we're talking about is the people who mange your child's life on a day to day basis. People with no degrees and no qualifications in many cases. For the money being spent, why can't your child have access to quality care and education?
-
Deborah,
Of course I don't live on campus, but we are up there quite frequently in between our resolutions. ACtually, I have been up there on "regular days". I also have a network of other parents who do the same. We all check in on all of the kids we know. I usually take kids aside and talk to them, how is it going, any messages to their parents etc. So, I get updates from people other than staff. We also get 2 phone calls a week from our son, And lastly, when he was home last month AND this month, we had a heart-to-heart talk about ASR and how he is treated. We have always been close in that way and he assures me that he is not being mistreated.
My only point is that I have more up-to-date knowledge about the day to day goings on. I am constantly e-mailing his therapist, and the academic director and they are very repsonsive. I may disagree with petty little issues but I am always e-mailed back immediately.
The only way to know for sure how students are being treated, is to plant a spy there to report back, since obviously you won't believe what you are hearing. I have no reason to lie or defend ASR. There are policies I don't agree with and I do make it clear. I seriously doubt that you will believe anything that I have to say. Keep this is mind, I have entrusted my most precious gift to ASR, something that I wouldn't take lightly. The boy that was home 2 weeks ago is a boy that I haven't seen in many,many years. If you are a parent, then hopefully you can understand that I would NEVER send my son to a place that I felt uncomfortable with, Hope this helps give you my perspective, I am not here to cause trouble, just to present a side that I am familar with.
AS for the 2002 study, you know as well as I do that a lot can change in 4 years. Also, I am sure that you have read Dave Marcus' book which was published in 2002. The administration has deifinetly changed (for the better). Also, ASR has a staff person hired soley to follw-up on all ASR students, post ASR. That report should be ready soon.
-
Shapiro's study was posted at ST as a reference as recently as two months ago.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 5288.shtml (http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/article_5288.shtml)
They made no mention that the information was outdated or inaccurate, or that any changes had been made at ASR.
No I haven't read Marcus's book but it was discussed here, ad nauseum. I have read excerpts online and find it interesting that a world affairs journalist is now promoting himself as a parenting expert.
This critique was particularly interesting:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib ... teens.html (http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050227/news_lz1v27teens.html)
*Families arrive at the Academy at Swift River so ready to get their unruly child out of the house that few ask for statistics demonstrating a successful track record.
Good thing. The school, located in a former dairy, is run by a for-profit company and does not compile such figures.
*One day, a student has an apparent breakthrough in therapy. Soon after, she's having sex with a classmate in the bathroom.
*One unorthodox punishment is to withhold spices ? including salt ? from students' food.
*Swift River revolves around ritual, yet the staff struggles, and sometimes fails, to keep order. The intensity of the work leads to burnout. One beloved teacher is later spotted by a former student working in a New York deli.
*The only misfit in this well-crafted book is the title: It's unclear what it takes to pull these kids through. Counselors acknowledge some would outgrow their problems without Swift River. And one kid who absorbs all the nurturing Swift River can provide still ends up dead of an overdose.
TheWho never could tell me the source Marcus cited which might support his fear mongering "Skyrocketing Suicide Rate" comment. Might you be able to provide that information?
If you have more up to date information, then share what specifically has changed.
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Hi Deborah,
I will check in the Dave Marcus book later on today and let you know if anything comes up (again this info if from 2001).
I can dispell the witholding of spices, particularly salt. I think that rumor was when ASR had the wilderness component. Salt is necessary physiologically, and it helps prevent dehydration. I have seen that the kids get a gatorade-like drink at meals. I have eaten there many times since August and the food is good. Sage has improved nutrition by marking foods as red, yellow and green and there is always a salad bar, vegetarian selection and usually a deli bar. Fresh fruit is ALWAYS available 24/7, as is the drink dispensor of juices etc.
I can't think where the rumor of sleeping in the janitor's room came from. I think the best thing that happened was the administartion overhaul (esp getting rid of the Benzs'). I did contact Dave Marcus before we sent our son, and he was honest that ASR had positives and certainly its share of negatives (as ALL schools will do).
I will be more than happy to answer any questions that you may have. I am honest and when parents call me for references, I give cons along with pros. My major complaint (and I have voiced this many times, is that the kids seem bored on the weekends. A new residential suoervisor was recently hired to remedy this and it seems much better now. This was primarilly in the winter, so now that it is nice outside, it is much better. My son is into basketball and goes into town to scrimmage against another team weekly. I also am impressed with the psychiatrists and nursing on site (from 7am-10pm)and at night 7 days a week. A nurse is always on call. I also like the drug abuse counsleor who is ther full-time. It was the only TBS we looked at that had one.
Deborah, I know that I sound like a program parent, but I am being totally honest about what I have seen. I have no alterior motives other than loving my son and doing what we feel was needed in our particular case. Please feel free to ask any questions that I can help you with!
Again, thanks for not bashing me. We are on the same side in that we want what is best for our kids.
-
On 2006-06-28 07:35:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2006-06-28 06:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"DJ,
As for therapist qualifications (which is the MAIN reason we chose ASR) our son's therapist has a BS in Science from UMAss,an MSW in Clinical SOcial WOrk from SMith and A post graduate fellowshhip at Harvard. In addition, she has lots of experieces counseling and educating both kids and adults.
I would think that this makes her quite qualified to counsel. I would also urge you to check out the other current therapists who also have good credentials.
As for the academics, a 75% turnover is due to the small number of teachers on staff, so the number looks worse than it is. One very qualified teache is on Maternity leave, and one is pursuing graduate school work in her field. Just a quick note, we personally did not choose ASR for the acdemics (I would have chosen a private school for that). His QPA and test scores are quite good and he will get into a good 4 year program next year.
As for the LGAT style seminars, if you read my posts, they have changed the format to make it more positive and self-esteem building over the past month or two. So yes, you do need to do some research in this department before passing judgement on current practices at ASR since 2002.
My only point is that it is unfair to group all TBS/RTC programs as abusive and uncaring, I can't speak for other programs but only first hand from our experience. There is no perfect school (at home or away).
"
I actually was talking about counselors, not therapists. There are zero licensed counselors and many with substandard education or none at all.
As to the teachers, there are at least two on staff with no degrees whatsoever. How can this be happening? How can someone be qualified to teach without even having a degree? Did you ever have a highschool teacher with no more education than you had at the time? It's absurd to defend this.
75% turnover rate was for all staff, not just teachers.
As for the seminars, they have zero therapeutic value. The very premise they are based upon is ineffective and damaging. Making some changes to the tone/format may help reduce damage, but hardly increases effectiveness.
So, what we're talking about is the people who mange your child's life on a day to day basis. People with no degrees and no qualifications in many cases. For the money being spent, why can't your child have access to quality care and education?
"
Parent, I see you skipped over these facts. Can you address these items, please?
-
***I can dispell the witholding of spices, particularly salt. I think that rumor was when ASR had the wilderness component. Salt is necessary physiologically, and it helps prevent dehydration.
What rumor? It apparently was stated in Marcus?s book. And yes, why would they deny salt as punishment in a wilderness program where dehydration is a problem. It?s a common practice in WPs and several kids have died dehydration? I think that knowledge has been common for hundreds, if not thousands, of years.
If Shapiro and Marcus's works are outdated and inaccurate, why are they consistently posted to support ASR? Do you refer those potential parents to these works?
Re: food and Sage Food Service- here?s an analysis of what they served at HLA. A staff member accused an 04 grad of lying about the lack of quality and vegetarian options.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=75#85408 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5722&forum=9&start=75#85408)
Does it matter that fruit and drinks are available 24/7? I read that no food was allowed outside the cafeteria, and there was no eating between meals.
Sleeping on the floor of the night security?s office wasn?t a rumor. It was stated, as I quoted, in Shapiro?s study. This is another common practice in programs.
I?m not sure you will be happy to answer questions. I?ve asked you several that you?ve avoided. You could start with outlining the old techniques and what they were replaced with. And why this occurred.
***I also am impressed with the psychiatrists and nursing on site (from 7am-10pm)and at night 7 days a week.
Two psych are listed- Cohen and Newman, both listed as ?consulting?. That usually implies they aren?t there on a daily basis. I don?t see a drug abuse counselor listed. Newman?s bio states he?s there two days a week, and Cohen sees kids throughout the week.
***I also like the drug abuse counsleor who is ther full-time. It was the only TBS we looked at that had one.
I don?t see a drug abuse counselor listed. Who is it?
And to revisit the Wilderness issue. Here?s what I?ve read:
Jan 2003 New 3-week ?Transition Program? directly following completion of ?Passages Wilderness Phase?.
Jeremy McGeorge, who has returned to campus as a science teacher, will also spearhead their new Transition Program
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... heard.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives///////////2003/2/feb03seennheard.html)
Oct 2003- No More Wilderness: Base Camp/Orientation ?Passages? Wilderness phase- While maintaining its core principles, it will be integrated into the ?Crossroads Program?, creating an 8-week program, mostly outdoors during the day, housed indoors at night, with its students primarily interacting with Upper School Peer Mentors and staff. Through a merit system, students can integrate into the main campus as early as three and a half weeks into the program and counseling staff will now begin working with their Peer Group during Passages. For the last two years the Passages program has been directed by Jim Markham, who has an MA in Counseling and Music Therapy at The Naropa Institute in Boulder, Colorado. The Crossroads Director is Jeremy McGeorge, who has a BA degree in psychology from the University of Arizona and a BS degree in biology from Northern Arizona University.
http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives ... heard.html (http://www.strugglingteens.com/archives///////////2003/11/nov03seennheard.html)
So, they?re outdoors all day and sleep in dorms at night. That?s an improvement, but apparently the ?core principles? (policies) were maintained, which might include denying salt.
Jim Markham nor Jeremy McGeorge are listed as staff.
And, while you?re here, someone said that ASR had hired a Clinical Director two years ago. Might you know who that is?
We may be on the same side in terms of wanting what?s best for kids, but I don?t know that we will agree on what?s best.
-
I will try to address many of your questions now, but my daughter has a guitar lesson soon. I don't know who or why people keep quoting studies and info from 2001/02. I guess because that is all that is formally published for now. I will need to skim Marcus' book and Shapiro's article to try to find what policies,staff etc has changed. Most staff changes I believe is for the better.This applies as well to policy changes.
let's see where to begin. The cafeteria is directly attached to the dining room and is always open. The kids hang there, play board games, cards, crafts, read and can do homework there, so they do have access to fruit/drinks at all times.
AS for sleeping in the security office at night- I have NEVER heard of this, but I will ask my son when I get a chance.
The current staff should be on the website:
The drug counsleor is Mike Valuski and he is awesome. Someone new has also joined him (an't remember his name).
The clinical director is Frank Barolomeo (and he has vey good credentials).
Jeremey McGeorge is no longer there. He is at King George now.
Dr. Cohen and Dr. Newman are there 3 days a week, with another professional named Richard Champoux (who is younger and the kids relate well to him) who is there one day a week.
The wilderness component was replaced by a program called Passages (usually 4 weeks or so). The name was just changed to Pathways (not sure of the differences). The kids don't go to academics as they work on transitioning the kids slowly into the program. The kids eat and sleep with the other students. Wilderness is not required, but is preferred. Pathways works on some of the work done in wc.
The trip to Costa Rica is no longer. The capstone was replaced with a program to Transition the kids to post-ASR plans which was a component that was really needed (a major plus).
AS you can see, there is nothing secret that I am witholding. It will take me some time to list the differences from 2001-present. It is a shame that Fornits is going by old info. No wonder you guys think it is such a terrible place.
It is OK for us to want what's best for the kids and I don't expect that we will agree on every point. I am trying to help sort out the truth from fallicy or just plain outdated info.
-
On 2006-06-28 08:56:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2006-06-28 07:35:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2006-06-28 06:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"DJ,
As for therapist qualifications (which is the MAIN reason we chose ASR) our son's therapist has a BS in Science from UMAss,an MSW in Clinical SOcial WOrk from SMith and A post graduate fellowshhip at Harvard. In addition, she has lots of experieces counseling and educating both kids and adults.
I would think that this makes her quite qualified to counsel. I would also urge you to check out the other current therapists who also have good credentials.
As for the academics, a 75% turnover is due to the small number of teachers on staff, so the number looks worse than it is. One very qualified teache is on Maternity leave, and one is pursuing graduate school work in her field. Just a quick note, we personally did not choose ASR for the acdemics (I would have chosen a private school for that). His QPA and test scores are quite good and he will get into a good 4 year program next year.
As for the LGAT style seminars, if you read my posts, they have changed the format to make it more positive and self-esteem building over the past month or two. So yes, you do need to do some research in this department before passing judgement on current practices at ASR since 2002.
My only point is that it is unfair to group all TBS/RTC programs as abusive and uncaring, I can't speak for other programs but only first hand from our experience. There is no perfect school (at home or away).
"
I actually was talking about counselors, not therapists. There are zero licensed counselors and many with substandard education or none at all.
As to the teachers, there are at least two on staff with no degrees whatsoever. How can this be happening? How can someone be qualified to teach without even having a degree? Did you ever have a highschool teacher with no more education than you had at the time? It's absurd to defend this.
75% turnover rate was for all staff, not just teachers.
As for the seminars, they have zero therapeutic value. The very premise they are based upon is ineffective and damaging. Making some changes to the tone/format may help reduce damage, but hardly increases effectiveness.
So, what we're talking about is the people who mange your child's life on a day to day basis. People with no degrees and no qualifications in many cases. For the money being spent, why can't your child have access to quality care and education?
"
Parent, I see you skipped over these facts. Can you address these items, please?
"
Uh, you skipped these points again. It's nice that you address the fluff points like consulting therapists and food service, but these are the people responsible for your kid all day every day.
Teachers - very poor. So poor that they would be barred from every single public school in the nation. Some with no degrees whatsoever.
Counselors - equally poor. So poor that not a single one would be allowed to see clients privately or in any licensed facility. Some with no degrees, most without masters, all without licenses. These are the people who run groups and deal with the kids' issues every day - a frightening thought.
WHY IS STAFF SO LOW-RENT WHEN YOU PAY TOP DOLLAR?
-
DJ,
I will reply to your questions when I have more time. Just curious, but does Fornits grill every program parent about all of the TBS/RTC's.
I see that you are being respectful and mature about this, but realize I am not paid by Aspen or ASR. I am just trying to explain what I can to dispel fact from old info from rumor. No program is perfect, we all agree on that point. See if any of my answer to Deborah's questions are any help to you.
PS I am not going to add fuel or info to help Andrea shut file a report. ASR is one of the better programs. They are working on getting licensed and from I understand takes time. For now, there first priority and as it should be is taking care of our kids and I am confident that they are doing a good job.
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On 2006-06-28 12:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"DJ,
I will reply to your questions when I have more time. Just curious, but does Fornits grill every program parent about all of the TBS/RTC's.
I see that you are being respectful and mature about this, but realize I am not paid by Aspen or ASR. I am just trying to explain what I can to dispel fact from old info from rumor. No program is perfect, we all agree on that point. See if any of my answer to Deborah's questions are any help to you.
PS I am not going to add fuel or info to help Andrea shut file a report. ASR is one of the better programs. They are working on getting licensed and from I understand takes time. For now, there first priority and as it should be is taking care of our kids and I am confident that they are doing a good job."
Yeah, parents do tend to get grilled. It's a hot kitchen here.
I appreciate your answering questions to the best of your ability. I sincerely do. It's a service to all.
I do, however, fundamentally disagree with your assessment. I have no confidence that the kids are safe from physical and psychological harm. I know unregulated, unmonitored programs are safe-havens for sadists, child molesters and people generally unfit to serve children in other modaliites, like private practice or licensed treatment centers. I have seen this first hand many, many times.
What is of grave concern to me is that most ASR parents say "academics isn't really a concern" but "treatment" is. What you are saying is that ASR is in fact not a "school" (no licensed or credentialed teachers, unaccredited academics), but rather a "treatment center." As such, it is incumbent upon them to provide safe, effective treatment to their patients. It has been made abundantly clear through their methodology, hiring of completely unqualified staff and coercive, restrictive environment that they are not achieving this end.
So, if they are not delivering quality care through licensed professionals that stands up to scientific scrutiny and is measurable in it's success, they are failing miserably as both a school and a treatment center.
I am just amazed sometimes that people pay so much for the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel treatment with no track record of quantifiable success (not that paying less would make it any more acceptable, but the sheer pricetag should spur some investigation into measurable success).
-
Parents especially tend to get grilled when, well, they're not really parents.
Brrring brrring! I call lying programmie troll.
-
You know what Gurgling Milk Death Penatly?
You attitude sucks and personally, I am sick of it. I was having a meaningful conversation with both Deborah and DJ
to try to answer some questions about ASR. It is guys like you frustrate the hell out of me on this forum. I wash my hands of trying to have any meaningful conversations with you anymore on this forum. Like the WHO, who was smart enough to leave, I am too. I don't need or deserve your abuse. Let me know when you decide to grow up! In the meantime-shut up.
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On 2006-06-28 17:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You know what Gurgling Milk Death Penatly?
You attitude sucks and personally, I am sick of it. I was having a meaningful conversation with both Deborah and DJ
to try to answer some questions about ASR. It is guys like you frustrate the hell out of me on this forum. I wash my hands of trying to have any meaningful conversations with you anymore on this forum. Like the WHO, who was smart enough to leave, I am too. I don't need or deserve your abuse. Let me know when you decide to grow up! In the meantime-shut up."
Does this look like a fucking program to you, idiot? Do I look like I take orders from you? You're just pissed that someone called your bluff. I assure you, your unreality was in the back of both Deb's and DJ's minds; they just were polite enough not to mention it. Guess what, I'm not.
And you do deserve my abuse. You deserve more abuse than I can give. You deserve even more abuse than I can think up. You openly defend, through pure denial, nothing short of child abuse, bizarre, perverted "therapy", and Soviet-style "psychiatric" incarceration that was supposed to have ended with the Cold War. The only thing that should be done to you to stop the pain is a .45 to the back of the head, to put you out of our misery.
And hopefully The Who left this plane of existence, as well.
-
I call b.s. also on this being a parent...it's pretty obvious. I love the way that they always slip in "ASR is one of the better programs"
Ed con or program employee is my call.
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On 2006-06-27 20:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To Deborah,
I have a student currently enrolled and blah blah blah
I HATE that posters on this website cite outdated and inaccurate data. blah blah blah"
hate?
hate is a pretty strong word.
don't you guys still teach "I'm usually not upset for the reason I think I am"?
oh...and nice admission that things have changed in the last couple months :roll: ...all that does is tell us that you admit that you were WRONG 2 months ago...but I....
jeeze...you're not even worth my time...like the who...
you also are the proud recipient of...
(http://http://evilallianceracing.com/ipw-web/gallery/albums/album105/ass_clown_award.jpg)
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***I don't know who or why people keep quoting studies and info from 2001/02.
Because another parent brought them into the discussion.
***The kids hang there, play board games, cards, crafts, read and can do homework there, so they do have access to fruit/drinks at all times.
So, you?re saying that they have access to fruit/drinks anytime? You make it sound like summer camp. If I was so inclined I could post numerous links outlining the rigorous, structured schedule, with little down time. I got the impression that wasn?t much ?hangin? time.
***The clinical director is Frank Barolomeo (and he has vey good credentials).
Jeremey McGeorge is no longer there. He is at King George now.
Was Frank hired two years ago?
***AS you can see, there is nothing secret that I am witholding.
No, I?m not sure of that. I think you?re sharing what you think you know, what you?ve been told, what you want to believe.
***I am trying to help sort out the truth from fallicy or just plain outdated info.
I hear that, and I?m not sure a ?parent? is qualified to answer technical questions, but what the hey.
-
I think that it is funny that now they are trying to dismiss studies that are 5 years old. A long time ago they tried to discredit the original Straight/Ceduites as being 20-30 years ago...then it was the ones that were 10 years ago (what could they possibly know :roll: ) Then it's 5 years ago and now...even mentioning themselves :roll: so they have conveniently found a way to dismiss even the newest graduates complaints because "things have changed" :roll:
not to mention...by the "programmies" timeline...and per their information...if things in fact have "improved" :roll: in recent months...then admittedly there must have been something regarding the LGAT's that needed changing due to the overexposure here and other sites...so then theWho's "supposed" daughter (questionable as her existence might be)...would have attended during a time when BAD THERAPY was being administered yet he/she still backs it.
You program schills/ed cons/parents seeking referral fees etc. are blindly misguided into thinking that you are dealing with a bunch of young punks on this site that cannot see through all of your contradictory and vague statements and answers.
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ding dong, you're wrong. You wanted updated info. I was trying to help. Call me a parent programee.
I am NOT an ed-con or an employee.
It is clear that you you are not interested in my opinion of what is curerently going on. If
G-d forbid the program wants to change for the better (and yes there were studies done, you blast them. They cannot do right by you guys. Why does everything have to have an alterior motive with you guys.
And don't twist around the words regarding therapist vs counselors- the counselors ARE the therapists with damn good credentials. The head residential mentor who deals with life during the afternoon and evening are also qualified. Some of the mentors are not overly qualified. ANd as for the academics being a joke, they most certainly are not! Will he go to Harvard from here, no, he woudn't from any program. Is he learning, absolutely! Some of the seasoned, qualified teachers have left for variuous reasons unrelated to the job. Academics are important at ASR- could they better absolutely. But they are working on this as well.Between your fault in LGAT,s, staff compentency, academic compentency, food and consequences you attack everything at one time. Rome wasn't biult in a day. I was here to help, not get blasted. I didn't realize that Deborah or DJ didn't believe me either. Thanks for bring so open minded and remiding me that we are here solely for amusement and to be abused. Adious
-
"I hear that, and I?m not sure a ?parent? is qualified to answer technical questions, but what the hey."
Oh, but you are qualified? Are only disgruntled parents qualified to speak on this subject?
Also, studies and programs techniques go stale. In the medical industry, scientists are continuously improving life-saving equipment to save people. Pacemakers are better this year than they were last year. My Father's pacemaker is last year's model- he's living a great life with last year's model but doesn't find it necessary to rip it out and put in the new model.
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To the anonymous ASR poster: Don't let them chase you away. Turn a deaf ear (blind eye :smile:) to their rantings and attacks and say what I want you to say. It's important to keep balance here- not that 99% of parents truly seeking advice about programs take them seriously. Your positive stories do offer hope to a few.
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On 2006-06-29 07:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To the anonymous ASR poster: Don't let them chase you away. Turn a deaf ear (blind eye :smile:) to their rantings and attacks and say what I want you to say. It's important to keep balance here- not that 99% of parents truly seeking advice about programs take them seriously. Your positive stories do offer hope to a few. "
Interesting, I wrote "say what you want to say" and my post was mysteriously edited to read "say what I want you to say". In any case, your experiences are valuable to a few around here. But, I don't blame you for leaving.
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On 2006-06-29 07:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"ding dong, you're wrong. You wanted updated info. I was trying to help. Call me a parent programee.
I am NOT an ed-con or an employee.
It is clear that you you are not interested in my opinion of what is curerently going on. If
G-d forbid the program wants to change for the better (and yes there were studies done, you blast them. They cannot do right by you guys. Why does everything have to have an alterior motive with you guys.
And don't twist around the words regarding therapist vs counselors- the counselors ARE the therapists with damn good credentials. The head residential mentor who deals with life during the afternoon and evening are also qualified. Some of the mentors are not overly qualified. ANd as for the academics being a joke, they most certainly are not! Will he go to Harvard from here, no, he woudn't from any program. Is he learning, absolutely! Some of the seasoned, qualified teachers have left for variuous reasons unrelated to the job. Academics are important at ASR- could they better absolutely. But they are working on this as well.Between your fault in LGAT,s, staff compentency, academic compentency, food and consequences you attack everything at one time. Rome wasn't biult in a day. I was here to help, not get blasted. I didn't realize that Deborah or DJ didn't believe me either. Thanks for bring so open minded and remiding me that we are here solely for amusement and to be abused. Adious"
The "counselors" are the "therapists"? Hmmm... Not according to their website. If this is so, then ASR is certainly operating outside of the law because there are at least two counselors with no degree at all and not a single one of them is licensed to provide services. This is very troubling.
Of course Rome wasn't built in a day, but ASR has been open for ten years operating outside the spirit and letter of the law. This is a problem. For years ASR and its supporters have been saying "we're changing for the better." However, there are still no licensed or credentialed teachers, with some having no education whatsoever and no licensed counselors, some of whom have no degree whatsoever, much less "damn good credentials." Every single one of these people would be legally barred from hanging a shingle in the real world. What benchmark are you using to determine that they are "damn good"? That just doesn't float.
So, I do appreciate your input, but it doesn't seem to jive with reality.
As for your leaving, that's your choice. I will also note that I haven't been rude, treated you shabbily or otherwise been out of line in any way. You do share a common characteristsic with other program supporters: you are unable to support your opinion with facts. When you challenged with a rational, fact-based analysis of your assertions, you cut and run while blaming others for your actions ("I didn't come here to get blasted!"). Nobody is "blasting" you. We have legitimate concerns about ASR ans you have provided no evidence that those concerns are not valid. In fact, you have shown those concerns to be valid and ongoing currently.
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On 2006-06-29 07:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
""I hear that, and I?m not sure a ?parent? is qualified to answer technical questions, but what the hey."
Oh, but you are qualified? Are only disgruntled parents qualified to speak on this subject?
Also, studies and programs techniques go stale."
I would like for you to note and admit that I have not made any personal claims about ASR. Every comment I make is based on what Aspen has written, what Shapiro and Marcus wrote, and comments of survivors.
What I hear from the person that is supposed to be a parent expert is, "I think", "I'll have to check", "they just changed that", "I'll have to read that", "other's vocabulary offends me, so I'm out of here".
I think it's interesting that program parents are so easily offended by words written in a forum. How quick they are to run away when things aren't to their liking. It makes sense that parenting teens would be difficult (impossible) for them, and why programs are appealing. They lump everyone together and slam the forum as a whole.
Your perogative to stay or leave. But one thing you can count on, you can't control others. If the program was worth a grain of salt it would have taught you that.
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DJ,
They are blasting her and every parent who unsuspectingly comes here and tries to speak to the goodness of ASR or any program for that matter. YOU might not be blasting her but your cronies are. Before TSW got his head up his butt he used to discredit the foolishness of Luke/Paul, etc. I don't see you doing that.
I really do think you want ASR to be a bad place to prove your point. I doubt you truly care about the kids that are there now as long as you are "right."
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On 2006-06-29 08:53:00, wild fig wrote:
"DJ,
They are blasting her and every parent who unsuspectingly comes here and tries to speak to the goodness of ASR or any program for that matter. YOU might not be blasting her but your cronies are. Before TSW got his head up his butt he used to discredit the foolishness of Luke/Paul, etc. I don't see you doing that.
I really do think you want ASR to be a bad place to prove your point. I doubt you truly care about the kids that are there now as long as you are "right." "
Well, you're wrong.
Those kids should not be there. It is an inappropriate environment with piss-poor staff for teachers and counselors. Anyone with half a brain can see this and make the same conclusions. Counselors and teachers with no dgrees whatsover is outrageous and a complete slap in the face to the kids that are warehoused in that subpar environment.
I don't waste my time responding to people who detract from the discussion - I'm humoring you just this once - so going around "discrediting" other poster's "foolishness" is not an objective of mine. If others want to do it, that's fine, too.
Now, back to the subject of Wild Fig. Your opinion means little due to the fact that you are duplicitous. If you can't be honest about your posts and multiple identities/stories, you can't be taken seriously.
So, until you clean up your own back yard, your thoughts don't much matter to me.
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On 2006-06-29 08:53:00, wild fig wrote:
"DJ,
They are blasting her and every parent who unsuspectingly comes here and tries to speak to the goodness of ASR or any program for that matter. YOU might not be blasting her but your cronies are. Before TSW got his head up his butt he used to discredit the foolishness of Luke/Paul, etc. I don't see you doing that.
I really do think you want ASR to be a bad place to prove your point. I doubt you truly care about the kids that are there now as long as you are "right." "
Excuse me Fig, but SO WHAT? Do you believe that there aren't program supporters "blasting" survivors straight out or anonymously?
This is about the time I would like to have all programmies anon posts linked to a user name and/or assigned to one. I'm sure you'd like that, fig.
TheWho did his share until he got outed. Ottawa5 and her sidekicks, Karen, all guilty of the same.
I think you all need to be outed.
You can go over to ST and play the pretentious little game of "We're better than the scum at Fornits", but the fact remains, some of you are as "junenile and immature" as you claim those here to be.
A pathetic bunch of helpless victims. Victims of your kids, victims of words that offend you, victim of "blasting". Every outspoken advocate here has at one time or another been bashed, slandered, harrassed, threatened with slap suits, you name it. Use the scroll button, grow another layer of skin and stop the incessant whining and complaining.
If I ran this forum, all of ya'lls posts would be strung together. A "consequence" for your elistist, pretentious, decpetive "behaviors".
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I'm not posting to get a response from you. What a coincidence, your thoughts mean absolutely nothing to me as well. It's hard for anyone to take you seriously when you make broad, sweeping assumptions.
Your argument is a lot like this:
DJ: Cancer kills.
Parent: I had skin cancer once, it was removed and now I'm well.
DJ: All the studies say that cancer kills, you are wrong.
Parent: But the Dr. says I'm fine, I just have to watch my sun exposure.
DJ: Your Dr. is a quack. If he were a real Dr. he would tell you that cancer kills you ignoramous.
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Deborah,
I don't go to Struggling Teens- that's not why I'm here.
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On 2006-06-29 09:39:00, wild fig wrote:
"I'm not posting to get a response from you. What a coincidence, your thoughts mean absolutely nothing to me as well. It's hard for anyone to take you seriously when you make broad, sweeping assumptions.
Your argument is a lot like this:
DJ: Cancer kills.
Parent: I had skin cancer once, it was removed and now I'm well.
DJ: All the studies say that cancer kills, you are wrong.
Parent: But the Dr. says I'm fine, I just have to watch my sun exposure.
DJ: Your Dr. is a quack. If he were a real Dr. he would tell you that cancer kills you ignoramous."
Want me to let everyone know what your story is like, Fig? Hmmm?
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Playing program intimidation games again DJ. HLA taught you well.
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On 2006-06-29 09:50:00, wild fig wrote:
"Playing program intimidation games again DJ. HLA taught you well.
"
I'm just asking a simple question. If you feel intimidated, there must be some substance to it.
Glad to know you see that programs DO intimidate kids.
Now, let's clean up your mess, shall we, Wild Fig? Or should I say Broken Fig? Or Wild Leg?
At least I don't hide behind multiple identities and tell a half-dozen different stories. There is something to be said for people who tell the truth and own their words. At least you know where we stand! Why won't you own yours, Broken/Fig/Wild/Leg?
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On 2006-06-28 11:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
I don't know who or why people keep quoting studies and info from 2001/02.
Mostly because the huge ASR supporter The Who was always touting that as proof that ASR was effective and safe.
What do you say now Who? He may not be posting but I guarantee he's reading! :wave:
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I'd like to know why there isn't more "stringing together" of the programmies posts...hell...string together the survivors posts also.
That way we will get a better idea of how many are truly on each side.
I have often wondered why Ginger doesn't do this more frequently :???:
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That is why some of the threads are moderated and some are not. When Ginger decides that everyone must have a login (and only one login), then evrybody will be forced to be accountable for what they say. Until, it's a free for all.
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On 2006-06-29 09:39:00, wild fig wrote:
"I'm not posting to get a response from you. What a coincidence, your thoughts mean absolutely nothing to me as well. It's hard for anyone to take you seriously when you make broad, sweeping assumptions.
Your argument is a lot like this:
DJ: Cancer kills.
Parent: I had skin cancer once, it was removed and now I'm well.
DJ: All the studies say that cancer kills, you are wrong.
Parent: But the Dr. says I'm fine, I just have to watch my sun exposure.
DJ: Your Dr. is a quack. If he were a real Dr. he would tell you that cancer kills you ignoramous."
Actually, it's more like this:
Programmie: You have skin cancer!!
Sane person: It's a mole.
Programmie: No! I have a diploma I got online and so I KNOW ABOUT THIS! It's SKIN CANCER!
Sane person: I've had this mole for ten years. It's just a mole.
Programmie: You're not a professional like me, you don't know anything! Here, pour this lye on your skin. That will cure it! Only fifty thousand dollars!
Sane person: Um, I'm not paying you fifty thousand dollars, and I'm sure as shit not pouring lye on my skin. That will burn it off. Idiot.
Programmie: The pain is just the skin cancer using MANIPULATION! It's important that you get this treated right now! We have a whole lot of different brands of lye- hey, what's that in your hand?
BLAM!
Sane person: Someone call the garbageman.
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On 2006-06-29 12:31:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I'd like to know why there isn't more "stringing together" of the programmies posts...hell...string together the survivors posts also.
That way we will get a better idea of how many are truly on each side.
I have often wondered why Ginger doesn't do this more frequently :???: "
maybe so people focus on the content of posts instead of who is saying it.
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Last poster is quite correct. The programmies' stupidity and autocontradictions speak for themselves. Although it WOULD be nice to keep a chart of Who's proxies so we know when he's talking to himself again.
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On 2006-06-29 09:58:00, Dysfunction Junction wrote:
"
On 2006-06-29 09:50:00, wild fig wrote:
"Playing program intimidation games again DJ. HLA taught you well.
"
I'm just asking a simple question. If you feel intimidated, there must be some substance to it.
Glad to know you see that programs DO intimidate kids.
Now, let's clean up your mess, shall we, Wild Fig? Or should I say Broken Fig? Or Wild Leg?
At least I don't hide behind multiple identities and tell a half-dozen different stories. There is something to be said for people who tell the truth and own their words. At least you know where we stand! Why won't you own yours, Broken/Fig/Wild/Leg?
"
disappeared again, huh fig? looks like somebody has your number...
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On 2006-06-28 05:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Gargling milk,
Therapists at home are totally unprepared or able to deal with the problems of troubled youths.
"
You say this based on what? This is what they do for a living. And you do have an investment in poselytizing for the school. It is at the very least, called cognitive dissonance.
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On 2006-06-29 16:07:00, Milk Gargling Death Penalty wrote:
"Last poster is quite correct. The programmies' stupidity and autocontradictions speak for themselves. Although it WOULD be nice to keep a chart of Who's proxies so we know when he's talking to himself again."
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: