Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Deborah on December 09, 2005, 03:37:00 PM
-
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/ ... 14ef5.html (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA120805.01B.kerr_death.17c14ef5.html)
Autopsy shows boy, 12, at Kerr center suffocated
Web Posted: 12/08/2005 12:00 AM CST
Zeke MacCormack
Express-News Staff Writer
Autopsy findings released Wednesday attribute the weekend death of a Kerrville boy to suffocation while being restrained at Star Ranch, a
residential treatment center in Ingram.
An unidentified ranch staffer reportedly placed Christening "Mikie" Garcia, 12, in "a basket hold" as the emotionally disturbed youngster tried to bang his own head on the pavement.
Arms across his chest and hands held from behind by the staffer, Garcia stopped breathing Sunday evening and couldn't be revived, officials said.
Kerr County Justice of the Peace Bill Ragsdale is awaiting the results of toxicology tests on the boy, and investigations by state and local
authorities, before ruling on the manner of death.
The boy's parents could not be reached for comment.
A funeral service for him will be held at 9:30 a.m. Friday at Kerrville Funeral Home at 1121 Junction Highway.
Court records show Garcia had a history of banging his head. In January 2000, the state removed him and two other siblings from a household described as being in crisis.
At the time, the children's mother, Doris Garcia, now 40, moved out to escape what she called years of physical abuse by the father of her five kids, Innocencio Garcia, now 61.
Police had repeatedly responded to the Garcia home on complaints of domestic violence and runaway children, records show.
A Kerrville police officer, answering an assault complaint there on Dec. 13, 1999, said: "Violence is part of their everyday existence."
Doris and Innocencio Garcia relinquished their parental rights in 2004, records show.
An Oct. 18 report on the three Garcia children still in state custody states "Mikie" was placed at Star Ranch in August after having "serious behavior problems" at school and in a foster home.
"Star Ranch staff report that Mikie has had nine physical restraints in little over 30 days," the report filed in court records states. "He is
reported to be fighting, biting and fleeing."
On Sunday, authorities said, the boy was sent to "timeout" because of a violent outburst, then he banged his head on the ground.
"He had a troubled life and that (head banging) was one of the ways he got attention," said Rand Southard, director of Star Ranch, a private, nonprofit facility that opened in 1989.
[WAY HE GOT ATTENTION? Totally incompetent and has no business working with children]
State placements account for most of the clientele of 32 boys, 7 to 17 years old, with learning disabilities or emotional problems.
Southard said he's confident that the staffer, whom he described as "devastated" by Garcia's death, had followed guidelines.
"We're all upset that this happened," Southard said. "We desperately try to take care of the children in our care. This is a terrible accident."
Ragsdale said Travis County Medical Examiner Roberto Bayardo reported that the autopsy and on-scene circumstances led him to conclude "that the
decedent came to his death as a result of suffocation during physical restraint."
Forced restraint has been associated with at least 20 other deaths in Texas since 1990, according to an Austin watchdog group for psychiatric patients.
Lee Spiller of the Citizens Commission on Human Rights of Texas said such deaths seldom result in prosecution because - as in this situation - the
restraint is described as an effort to aid a troubled client.
"We'd rather see all the facilities be restraint-free," Spiller said Wednesday. "A restraint-free facility may or may not be practical, but I
would say the use of deadly force on small children is definitely impractical."
[email protected]
-
Oh my, that brings tears to my eyes. How tragic for this to have happened in the land of the Free. I hope parents wake up and realize this can happen to their son/daughter at any time without cause.
Parents, I beg you to think before you put your child in this situation. No child deserves a life sentence, especially after going through the abuse at home as well. Having your child die is a very real possibility in any facility. Yes, everyone dies. But these parents are ensuring if it does happen in a facility, their child will die a violent death. Please stop doing this to our children, Please.
-
These sick program supporters all contribute to these deaths. They continue the acceptance of unqualified retards caring for teens with special needs. They hire someone big enough to subdue them, which means also big enough to kill them. Poor kid. This just sucks. :sad:
-
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/ ... e62a7.html (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA120605.3B.death.cbe62a7.html)
6 Dec
The ranch, opened 16 years ago by nonprofit Star Programs Inc., has been investigated five times since Dec. 1, 2003, on allegations of abuse and/or neglect, including instances of inappropriate restraints and insufficient supervision, said Patrick Crimmins of the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services.
"Two of those were ruled out, three are pending," Crimmins said. "Any time a child dies, it is very sad and very unfortunate. We will investigate fully."
http://www.statesman.com/hp/content/met ... raint.html (http://www.statesman.com/hp/content/metro/stories/12/8restraint.html)
8 Dec
Christening "Mikie" Garcia had been placed in "time out" at Star Ranch on Sunday evening after refusing to take a shower but then began banging his head against the sidewalk and acting violently toward staff members, Kerr County Sheriff Rusty Hierholzer said.
Located in Ingram, just west of Kerrville, Star Ranch is a private, Christian nonprofit treatment center for boys ages 7 to 17 who have suffered severe emotional and physical abuse.
http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?wcd=18300 (http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?wcd=18300)
9 Dec
Two staff injured, one critical after roll-over while out buying ping-pong balls at 11:30pm.
Cody Wayne Young, 25, was transported to University Hospital in San Antonio by Critical Air Helicopter. The other staff members ? Ivy Seeds, 26, of Ingram and Justin Rumbo, 25, of Harlingen ? were reportedly released from hospital on Thursday.
http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?wcd=18299 (http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?wcd=18299)
9 Dec
The autopsy indicated a bruise on Garcia?s arm could have been caused by the restraint, and superficial marks on the boy?s head were consistent with banging his head on the sidewalk. When complete, the investigation will be presented to a Kerr County grand jury, Hierholzer said.
According to records filed in court this past September, Mikie Garcia?s 13-year-old brother lives in a foster home in a neighboring county and his 11-year-old sister lives in another Hill Country facility. All three children were recipients of multiple medications prescribed to combat behavioral and/or psychological issues.
Garcia?s death is devastating to Star Ranch?s staff, Southard said Wednesday. However, it won?t stop the program from continuing to try to fulfill its mission, he said.
?Colleen (his wife and Star Ranch co-founder) and I, and everyone out here, has to ask themselves are you willing to put this level of feeling and emotion in your job?? Southard said. ?Are you willing risk the relationship with another child? The answer for me right now is ?Yes.?
?We want to provide for the children that needs us,? he said. ?We?re constantly striving to make it better.?
-
That is just awful, it is such a tragedy for everyone involved, family, other kids at the school. We had a child in our community who was brain damaged by banging his head on the concrete floor at school as other class mates looked on. Nobody at the school was trained on how to handle the situation so they all stood around, one teacher tried to stop him but he was just too strong, very tramatic for the children to witness.
It sucks that we cant do more for these kids. The poor counselor will have to live with this the rest of his life, it is not clear from the article weather he was properly trained to handle the situation, proper restraint etc. but either way I am sure he is blaming himself.
There needs to be more training for staff and teachers to deal with these situations so that kids arent harming themselves. Its about time the state takes notice.
-
On 2005-12-09 19:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That is just awful, it is such a tragedy for everyone involved, family, other kids at the school. We had a child in our community who was brain damaged by banging his head on the concrete floor at school as other class mates looked on. Nobody at the school was trained on how to handle the situation so they all stood around, one teacher tried to stop him but he was just too strong, very tramatic for the children to witness.
It sucks that we cant do more for these kids. The poor counselor will have to live with this the rest of his life, it is not clear from the article weather he was properly trained to handle the situation, proper restraint etc. but either way I am sure he is blaming himself.
There needs to be more training for staff and teachers to deal with these situations so that kids arent harming themselves. Its about time the state takes notice.
"
One of the problems is that restraints are illegal in some states. Even though you are in a situation where you are trying to stop self abuse the only acceptable methods are the "Basket Hold" and a take down called the "floor hold". If the floor hold was used and the child is on their back it is easier to monitor how they are doing. The problem is you may need several people and this counselor may have been alone. Using a four or five point restraint system isnt typically acceptable in many state programs, even though it would have saved this boys life. Hopefully the state will take a hard look at itself and mandate training techniques if it turns out to be the issue. I hate hearing stories like that.
-
A few months of some judo or juujutsu would make it very safe, TSW. Hell, youre in korea, go find a school or the korean counterpart "Yudo".
I guarantee you someone with at least a year of practical experience who doesnt WANT to hurt a kid would not hurt that kid, or let them hurt themself. Untrained idiots or people who dont care or WANT to hurt them, will. When we talk to god, it's prayer. When god talks to us, it's schizophrenia.
--Lily Tomlin, American actress
-
On 2005-12-10 06:28:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"It has nothing to do with wanting to hurt a kid, or not wanting to hurt a kid. Their just is no way to completely eliminate the potential risk for injuries or death in a restraint. All the training in the world can not cope with the contigencies faced in real world situations that do not have the nice control atmosphere of a dojo.
In the real world restraints never seem to ever happen on a nice padded surface with people about to supervise the situation. Most of the time they take place on a nice concrete floor, or with your left kidney balanced on a sharp rock with some pissed off kid kicking you in the nuts.
Restraints never seem to go down with that textbook precision in training classes that have you break it down by the steps as you ease the youth to the nice padded floor, and carefully work through the motions to avoid injury. Never do you see a restraint take place where you have all the staff in world to help control the situation before it escalates out of hand.
This is coming from a person who single handedly performed over 200 standing, and prone restraints and only witnessed 5 major injuries during that time, and 4 of them were to myself. The one injury of significance was a broken collar bone that also resulted in me dislocating a finger.
Sorry Niles but practical experience tells me that their is just no way to do it safely, whether the person wants to hurt the kid, or even whether the person wants to prevent the kid from hurting themselves.
What is a committee? A group of the unwilling, picked from the unfit, to do the unnecessary.
-- Richard Harkness, The New York Times, 1960
"
Sorry TSW, but my bullshit radar is blaring and screaming. I understand what you mean about surfaces, supervision, and all, but the danger you describe is in blunt trama and results in broken bones. This kid suffocated. I've been in enough wrestling matches, real fights, and parental restraining situations (from both sides) to know that if someone lets a kid suffocate, they are either stupid or a murderer. You can tell when someone can't breath and you need to lighten up. It takes a pretty long time of not breathing to reach the point where someone cannot be revived. I'm not convinced there can be any valid excuse for suffocating a little kid to death.
-
If restraints are so inherently dangerous, perhaps they should be outlawed all together. There has been an unacceptable number of deaths. My contention, based on experience is that you can safely hold a small child who has lost it until they settle down; but you have to be ?very skilled? and possess a genuine caring, in order to restrain a person passed the age of 5 or 6 without causing injury to them or self. The obvious reason, because you can no longer ?hold? them. They are stronger and will fight harder to get out of a restraint, which feels like punishment.
The feelings that are propelling them into anger, rage, indignation could be channeled in a more constructive way. The stick suggestion was good. But to just ?put them down? is not therapeutic or helpful. Even if you shut the kid?s feelings down, they will ooze out at a later time, often passive aggressively. The anger is covering more vulnerable feelings of sadness and/or fear. This is basic knowledge and I don?t know why people who work with this population are not trained to view it that way. Humans are not maliciously violent by nature- particularly children. In these situations humor can go along way, but ultimately, if you do not genuinely care about the child, they KNOW it, and therefore will not let you in or be motivated to cooperate. I think programs know this too, and knowing that you can?t train staff to genuinely care, punishment is the only option, with all its inherent risks.
Starting with his refusal to take a shower. How could anyone view Time out as a solution or motivation? A refusal to shower should never end in death. Why was it more important to the staff that he shower than to the child? Was this a stand-off of wills? The adult demonstrating equally 'unreasonable' /?juvenile? behavior?
Kids in programs are highly likely to experience staff who are young and genuinely ignorant. They have a 3 or 4 step ?procedure? to follow and are not thinking about what?s really going on inside the kid. Black and white, no grey. No compromise. Just follow the rules or suffer the consequences. Too young to have children of their own and working off theories and practices they?ve learned in school or from the program. Some don?t even have schooling. Bottom line, I don?t think they are addressing kid?s real needs, don?t understand what?s under the child?s anger and how to address it, and do not possess genuine caring. So, the child is ?changed? or killed with punishment for not possessing the ability to suppress his feelings or cooperate in spite of them.
Also, restrained 9 times in a month. Might the environment be too confrontational to be therapeutic? How do rigid rules and harsh punishment help a child like this relax? Kids relax and become more cooperative when their real needs are being met.
Might his behavior have been at least in part caused by the chemical soup of drugs he was on? They obviously weren?t eliminating the feelings that dictated his behavior. It was exposed recently that foster kids in Tx were on as many as 14 psychiatric drugs- proving ground for TMAP. The main proponent of drugging stated in a hearing that drugs were necessary for this population because they came from a bad gene pool. Far too many in the industry actually feel disdain for these kids and therefore have no business working with them.
Over and over I see programs and foster parents professing to care, when their actual motivation is to profit off these distressed and disoriented kids, while trying to whip them into shape. Will they ever get it, that punishment doesn?t heal a scared or broken heart.
-
I couldnt have said it better. :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup: :tup:
-
MY SON WAS AT THE STAR RANCH AND HE HAS DEMONSTRATED THE RESTRAINT TECHNIQUES USED BY THE STAFF WHILE HE WAS THERE. HE CLAIMS THAT THEY LAY THE CHILDREN ON THEIR STOMACH WITH THEIR ARMS ACROSS THEIR CHEST AND THE STAFF MEMBER PRESSES DOWN ON THEIR BACK WITH THEIR KNEE. I HAVE TRIED TO TELL THIS TO THE SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT BUT THEY DON'T WANT TO TALK TO MY SON. THE OWNERS OF THE STAR RANCH ARE WELL KNOWN IN THIS SMALL TEXAS HILL COUNTRY COMMUNITY AND I HAVE A FEELING THAT NOTHING WILL COME OF THIS "INVESTIGATION". MY SON TOLD HIS STORY ON KSAT NEWS OUT OF SAN ANTONIO. I CONTACTED THE SHERIFFS DEPARTMENT AND THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY TURNS THEIR HEADS! THE RANCH, NOR THE POLICE ARE RELEASING THE NAME OF THE STAFF MEMBER THAT DID THIS. MY SON HAS GIVEN ME 4 NAMES OF STAFF MEMBERS THAT PRACTICED THIS TYPE OF RESTRAINT ON HIM WHILE HE WAS THERE. SOMEBODY HAS TO DO SOMETHING FOR THESE CHILDREN THAT ARE THERE. MOST OF THEM ARE PLACED BY CPS. THEY DO NOT HAVE MOMS AND DADS LOOKING AFTER THEM AND THEIR CASE WORKERS ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOB. I WOULD LOVE TO HEAR FROM PEOPLE OUT THERE WITH EXPERIENCE IN THE FIELD OF RTC'S. PLEASE E-MAIL ME OR POST TO THIS BOARD. I WILL CHECK IT DAILY. THANK YOU
-
Yep, Chase Moody died after being restrained improperly and his dad sued the outfit that ran the wilderness camp in Texas where he died.
It's tragic that children are at the mercy of untrained, under-educated staff who work at these RTC's and wilderness camps with little to no fear of being held accountable for the maltreatment (even death) of these kids.
No program is a safe program if children's safety comes last.
-
I would like to talk with you about this Star Ranch. Please email me at [email protected]
Best,
Jim
-
MADMOM - talk to ISAC and a lawyer before you email anyone. They might be a lawyer working for the program who will try to sue you for "slander" or some other troglodyte who might try to use what you say against you.
Its happened before...Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty until proven innocent.
--Robert A. Heinlen, American science-ficiton author
-
My son attended Star Ranch last summer. He had a really positive experience, following a year of extreme emotional outbursts and police intervention at school (he's 12 now). He has Asperger's Syndrome.
The staff at Star Ranch never physically restrained him, and took great care to help him learn to deal with his emotions. We were looking forward to sending him back for two weeks next year, BUT....so many factors; like, how do you really know, in a camp designed for children with behavioural difficulties, what the staff is trained to do (beyond what they tell and show you)? What SHOULD they have done with an aggressive boy who was harming himself? What about all the kids who have been helped at that camp? Not to mention the 10 years they've served kids in the residential center and school.
I don't know about anyone else, but not that many camps offer help to kids that aren't "the norm". My son had about -0- options for camp; but he went to Star Ranch, learned self-control and responsibility and independence, and was never punished. He had some restrictions on his time when he wouldn't cooperate.
He got to fish, swim, care for animals and learned new skills every day.
He came back a different, more mature and happier boy. So, now what?
Now we look for a new camp, I guess. It is really a tragedy for so many people, beginning with poor Christening.
Thanks for hearing my side.
-
On 2005-12-22 08:15:00, justamomintx wrote:
"My son attended Star Ranch last summer. He had a really positive experience, following a year of extreme emotional outbursts and police intervention at school (he's 12 now). He has Asperger's Syndrome.
The staff at Star Ranch never physically restrained him, and took great care to help him learn to deal with his emotions. We were looking forward to sending him back for two weeks next year, BUT....so many factors; like, how do you really know, in a camp designed for children with behavioural difficulties, what the staff is trained to do (beyond what they tell and show you)? What SHOULD they have done with an aggressive boy who was harming himself? What about all the kids who have been helped at that camp? Not to mention the 10 years they've served kids in the residential center and school.
I don't know about anyone else, but not that many camps offer help to kids that aren't "the norm". My son had about -0- options for camp; but he went to Star Ranch, learned self-control and responsibility and independence, and was never punished. He had some restrictions on his time when he wouldn't cooperate.
He got to fish, swim, care for animals and learned new skills every day.
He came back a different, more mature and happier boy. So, now what?
Now we look for a new camp, I guess. It is really a tragedy for so many people, beginning with poor Christening.
Thanks for hearing my side."
Well, consider yourself lucky. They have kid killers on staff there. You just got plain old lucky that your son was never restrained and didn't fall victim to an illegal restraint.
-
HAVE YOU SEEN ANY INFORMATION RELEASED ON THE "STAFFER" THAT DID THIS? THE NEWS SAID THAT HE WAS AN EMPLOYEE OF 7 YEARS WITH THEM. NOBODY IS WILLING TO RELEASE THE NAME. IF THERE IS A POLICE REPORT IS THAT NOT PUBLIC INFORMATION? SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT..... AND JUST THINK, THE OWNERS OF THE RANCH ARE ALL OVER THE TV STATING THAT THEY ARE SUPPORTING THE "STAFFER" THAT DID THIS... GREAT PLACE!
-
On 2005-12-22 08:53:00, MADMOM wrote:
"HAVE YOU SEEN ANY INFORMATION RELEASED ON THE "STAFFER" THAT DID THIS? THE NEWS SAID THAT HE WAS AN EMPLOYEE OF 7 YEARS WITH THEM. NOBODY IS WILLING TO RELEASE THE NAME. IF THERE IS A POLICE REPORT IS THAT NOT PUBLIC INFORMATION? SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT..... AND JUST THINK, THE OWNERS OF THE RANCH ARE ALL OVER THE TV STATING THAT THEY ARE SUPPORTING THE "STAFFER" THAT DID THIS... GREAT PLACE!"
I think whenever there is a tragic death, of any type, all the people involved and the ones who witnessed the event should be given support. Especially if you were directly involved.
-
Or maybe that kid should have been given support instead of being murdered. Just a thought.
-
On 2005-12-22 11:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Or maybe that kid should have been given support instead of being murdered. Just a thought. "
Oh thats awlful, no one said he was murdered. Where did you hear that? That couselor must feel bad enough as it is, you shouldnt say things like that.
-
Kid killers. Hmmm....I haven't seen anything from anyone else regarding the reason that boy was at Star Ranch in the first place. His father was a wife abuser and his mother abandoned her children (3 children, under 12). The boy was at Star Ranch because CPS could not place him in foster care. How many other children have gone through Star Ranch unharmed? It is NOT a boot camp, like many other facilities.
I am amazed at how Anonymous is so sure of the facts without further information.
I am waiting for the Grand Jury to convene and come to a decision. In the meantime I don't have all the facts. As far as considering myself lucky that my child wasn't killed at Star Ranch: I think that's a really harsh and mean thing to say.
-
That was my post, above, in response to another "Anonymous". Sorry.
-
I think that's a really harsh and mean thing to say.
::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::bangin::
-
On 2005-12-22 13:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-22 11:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Or maybe that kid should have been given support instead of being murdered. Just a thought. "
Oh thats awlful, no one said he was murdered. Where did you hear that? That couselor must feel bad enough as it is, you shouldnt say things like that."
hmmm... what is it again when one person kills another by gross negligence (like an illegal restraint hold - asphyxia)? oh yeah... negligent homicide.
They don't have murderers, they just have people who kill kids. :silly:
-
hmmm... what is it again when one person kills another by gross negligence (like an illegal restraint hold - asphyxia)? oh yeah... negligent homicide.
Are you making this up as you go along? gross negligence, illegal restraint You just writing words down from an old murder mystery novel?
Why not shot and thrown out of a 50 story window in Singapore after being kidnapped by the Iraqi mafia?
None of what you say has been mentioned by anyone associated with the event.
Check the first post on this thread, there is a link to the original article, I dont believe the investigation has been completed yet
-
I AM SURE THAT THERE ARE ALOT OF PEOPLE THAT WORK FOR AND EVEN THOSE THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE STAR RANCH THAT ARE FEELING VERY PROTECTIVE OF THEIR REPUTATION AS WELL AS THE CHILDREN THAT ARE STILL THERE....HOWEVER, THE TRUTH IS VERY CLEAR. THERE IS A DEAD CHILD. HE WAS NOT ABLE TO BREATH. HE WAS FRIGHTENED. HE WAS ON RISPERDAL, ZOLOFT, LITHIUM, IMIPRAMINE AND DEPAKOTE. HE WAS A CONFUSED LITTLE BOY. HE DID NOT WANT TO BE SEPERATED FROM HIS OLDER BROTHER AND HE CLEARLY SAID TO THE COURTS THAT HE DID NOT WANT TO BE ADOPTED. BUT HEY, LETS ALL FEEL SORRY FOR THE MYSTERY STAFF MEMBER THAT FELT LIKE HE WAS GOING TO TEACH THIS YOUNG MAN A THING OR TWO. THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR SUCH AN ACT OF CRUELTY. UNFORTUNATELY, THE MURDERER WILL BE THE ONLY ONE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. WHERE WAS HIS AD LITEM, MR. GREGORY RICHARDS (280 THOMPSON DRIVE SUITE B BOERNE, TX 78006)? HE WAS PAID BY THE COURTS TO REPRESENT THIS CHILD IN COURT. HE WAS SUPPOSE TO TELL THE COURTS IN THEIR LAST HEARING THAT MIKEY DID NOT WANT TO BE SEPERATED FROM HIS BROTHER. HE WAS MIKEYS ONLY VOICE IN THE COURT ROOM. WHERE WAS THE CASA REPRESENTATIVE (MARY JANE MCEWEN P.O. BOX 290965 KERRVILLE, TX 78029)? WHEN WAS HER LAST VISIT TO CHECK ON MIKEY? HOW MANY TIMES HAD SHE MET HIM. I WONDER IF ANYBODY EVER REALLY SAT DOWN (BESIDES A COUNSELOR OR PSYC. PAID BY MEDICAID) AND ASKED MIKEY WHAT HE LIKED TO DO? WHAT IS HIS FAVORITE NFL TEAM? DOES HE HAVE A CRUSH ON ANY GIRLS? WHAT IS HIS FAVORITE COLOR? OR JUST SIMPLY SAY TO HIM WITH A HUG "EVERYTHING WILL BE ALRIGHT".
YES, ANONYMOUS....THIS WAS A MURDER.
-
Murder. Do you think the people at Star Ranch planned to assasinate this one child? How does "MADMOM" have all this information?
I think she has a not-very-hidden agenda.
Did anyone else notice that the San Antonio paper used, as its expert, a quote from a Scientology anti-psychiatry group?
Interesting...
I just think ALL the information should come out. Not just a one-sided representation of what people WISH had happened or surmise happened. Actual facts.
-
On 2005-12-22 16:40:00, justamomintx wrote:
"Murder. Do you think the people at Star Ranch planned to assasinate this one child? How does "MADMOM" have all this information?
I think she has a not-very-hidden agenda.
Did anyone else notice that the San Antonio paper used, as its expert, a quote from a Scientology anti-psychiatry group?
Interesting...
I just think ALL the information should come out. Not just a one-sided representation of what people WISH had happened or surmise happened. Actual facts."
What does psychiatry have to do with suffocating a child to death? I'm confusede as to why you make this association.
Maybe they're just anti-kid-killing. That sounds fine to me.
-
ALRIGHT ANONYMOUS.... YOU GUESSED IT. I HAVE AN AGENDA AND I WILL BE HAPPY TO SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU. I OBTAINED THIS INFORMATION AT THE DISTRICT CLERKS OFFICE IN KERR COUNTY COURTHOUSE. IT WAS VERY EASY TO GET. THEY ARE ALL OPEN RECORDS. MY AGENDA IS TO SHUT DOWN ALL TREATMENT FACILITIES THAT USE DRUGS TO TREAT CHILDREN. I WANT EVERY PERSON ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ABUSE AND HARM THAT THESE CHILDREN GO THROUGH. I AM NOT SURE IF THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE ANY CLEARER... JUST LET ME KNOW AND I WILL BE HAPPY TO CLARIFY. AS FOR THE GROUP OUT OF AUSTIN THAT YOU WERE REFERING TO... SO WHAT IF THEY ARE AN ANTI PSYC ORGANIZATION. I WISH THERE WERE MORE OF THEM AROUND. MAYBE MIKEY WOULD STILL BE HERE. AND NO.... I DO NOT THINK THAT ANYBODY WOKE UP IN THE MORNING PLANNING ON KILLING A CHILD. THAT MY NEW FOUND FRIEND WOULD BE MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE. THIS WAS INFACT, NEGLEGENT HOMICIDE.
-
ALRIGHT ANONYMOUS.... YOU GUESSED IT. I HAVE AN AGENDA AND I WILL BE HAPPY TO SPELL IT OUT FOR YOU. I OBTAINED THIS INFORMATION AT THE DISTRICT CLERKS OFFICE IN KERR COUNTY COURTHOUSE. IT WAS VERY EASY TO GET. THEY ARE ALL OPEN RECORDS. MY AGENDA IS TO SHUT DOWN ALL TREATMENT FACILITIES THAT USE DRUGS TO TREAT CHILDREN. I WANT EVERY PERSON ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE ABUSE AND HARM THAT THESE CHILDREN GO THROUGH. I AM NOT SURE IF THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE ANY CLEARER... JUST LET ME KNOW AND I WILL BE HAPPY TO CLARIFY. AS FOR THE GROUP OUT OF AUSTIN THAT YOU WERE REFERING TO... SO WHAT IF THEY ARE AN ANTI PSYC ORGANIZATION. I WISH THERE WERE MORE OF THEM AROUND. MAYBE MIKEY WOULD STILL BE HERE. AND NO.... I DO NOT THINK THAT ANYBODY WOKE UP IN THE MORNING PLANNING ON KILLING A CHILD. THAT MY NEW FOUND FRIEND WOULD BE MURDER IN THE FIRST DEGREE. THIS WAS INFACT, NEGLEGENT HOMICIDE.
-
On 2005-12-22 14:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"hmmm... what is it again when one person kills another by gross negligence (like an illegal restraint hold - asphyxia)? oh yeah... negligent homicide.
Are you making this up as you go along? gross negligence, illegal restraint You just writing words down from an old murder mystery novel?
Why not shot and thrown out of a 50 story window in Singapore after being kidnapped by the Iraqi mafia?
None of what you say has been mentioned by anyone associated with the event.
Check the first post on this thread, there is a link to the original article, I dont believe the investigation has been completed yet
"
Wow. You are an ignorant individual.
" http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/ ... 14ef5.html (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA120805.01B.kerr_death.17c14ef5.html)
Autopsy shows boy, 12, at Kerr center suffocated
Web Posted: 12/08/2005 12:00 AM CST
Zeke MacCormack
Express-News Staff Writer
Autopsy findings released Wednesday attribute the weekend death of a Kerrville boy to suffocation while being restrained at Star Ranch, a
residential treatment center in Ingram.
An unidentified ranch staffer reportedly placed Christening "Mikie" Garcia, 12, in "a basket hold" as the emotionally disturbed youngster tried to bang his own head on the pavement.
Arms across his chest and hands held from behind by the staffer, Garcia stopped breathing Sunday evening and couldn't be revived, officials said."
BASKET RESTRAINTS ARE ILLEGAL AND ARE KNOWN TO CAUSE SUFFOCATION.
How much clearer can it be? They killed this child by improperly restraining him. Did you not read the article you referenced?
You're a warped sicko to defend people who abuse and kill children.
-
Mad Mom - I appreciate your passion and you've earned every bit of the anger you're feeling. Please though, its much easier to read your posts if they're not in all caps.
Thanks and welcome. :smile:
-
BASKET RESTRAINTS ARE ILLEGAL AND ARE KNOWN TO CAUSE SUFFOCATION.
How much clearer can it be? They killed this child by improperly restraining him. Did you not read the article you referenced?
You're a warped sicko to defend people who abuse and kill children.
I can tell you are the same anon as before because you continue to make it up as you go. Thank you for atleast reading the report and reposting the link, but saying Basket restraints are illegal.... I read the report again to give you the benefit of the doubt, sorry.
People in this country are innocent until proven guilty, there is already enough pain, a child dead, people feeling responsible, kids witnessing this horror. Then we have to put up with people like you who take joy in sensationalizing it all, pointing fingers, screaming murder.
You should be seeking the truth instead of the spot light, shame on you and MADMOM for prejudging.
Give the authorities some space and wait for the investigation to conclude
-
People are so willing to jump to conclusions to promote their own personal points of view. The Citizens Commission on Human Rights, a Scientology group, is not just anti-psychiatry. Like MadMom, it is against the use of psychotropic drugs in children.
So in a case like this, where a child has died, eventually the blame can be at least placed on the drugs and the course of treatment. The actual cause of death was directly related, however, to the basket hold. His behaviour, while possibly stemming in part from his drug regimen, was also due to his history: abuse and neglect. Abused and neglected children often act out.
I don't know, though, what else this faction would offer besides a treatment center like Star Ranch and besides the proven drug treatments. CPS didn't want this kid anymore. I'm not seeing much heat on that decision.
I do know that many children have received great benefit from some of these drugs, specifically related to depression. I would expect that a professional would be more likely to be able to capably analyze Mike's drug profile and determine whether it was acceptable. I know I don't have the training for that.
My point is the same as before: let's see the actual facts after the conclusion of the investigation before we blame the entire system.
-
Hey dont let them get to you, they try to rile people up with false info (hopeing you wont check on them), throw gas on the fire , makes them feel important. Let em talk, when the report comes out they will be gone or try to convince you the cops were paid off... I've seen their types before... Here is a quote I found in the local paper.......
The staffer performed a state-approved "basket hold restraint," in which a child's arms are held across the chest, after all other options were exhausted......
They still havent read the article past the first paragraph.
-
Anonymous... What association do you have with the Star Ranch? I am wondering why you are so protective of the facility. I am not as you say throwing gas onto a fire. I am however, going to continue to expose the cruelty that i know the children go through in RTC's. You are assuming that I am prejudging all of the staff at the Star Ranch. I am not. I am however judging the facts. The child died from the results of a restraint. If the basket hold was infact performed, as you and the "ranch" have reported, then why is he dead. The truth of the matter is that there is no safe restraint for a child. So what happen if the "investigation" is concluded and they rule his death and accident? How many "accidents" will it take before somebody listens. Anonymous...How would you suggest that this horrible situation be handled? Should the grand jury not "true bill" this? Should we all just move on? You tell me...
-
What association do you have with the Star Ranch? I am wondering why you are so protective of the facility.
No affiliation, just a concerned parent with a teen.
If the basket hold was infact performed, as you and the "ranch" have reported, then why is he dead
Not sure, could be medication the child was on, the counselor was improperly trained in the use of the basket hold, counselor did not follow proper procedure, the child had a lung condition etc.
So what happen if the "investigation" is concluded and they rule his death and accident?
Depends on the root cause of the accident, if it was a training issue, maybe set up state controlled certification training for restraints and recertify periodically. If the Basket Restraint is too high risk or has a high incidence of death maybe push to have it banned. Counselors would then need to be trained on how to handle that situation in the future, What hold would replace the Basket hold etc.
Anonymous...How would you suggest that this horrible situation be handled? Should the grand jury not "true bill" this? Should we all just move on? You tell me..."
The obvious answer to me would be to:
1. wait for the results of the investigation,
2. Determine root cause (i.e. poor training,lung condition, not following procedures etc.)
3. Push for a fix to correct the problem from reoccuring (i.e. training, better medical oversight, legal action against responsible parties etc.)
4. Monitor and follow-up to insure corrective action (the changes that were made)is/are effective.
I typically never suggest to just move on, especially if a life is at risk, but I do depend heavily on the authorities doing their job and giving them the space they need.
-
Well, I would love to think that your theory would work with the facts leading to a true investigation, but I have tried to get the investigator to talk to my son about his experiences when he was at the Star Ranch and they are just not interested. I contacted an officer Twiss by phone and she did not really want to talk to him. My son can show them how they restrain and he can tell them who did it to him. Why not talk to him? I do not have any faith that this is a true investigation, nor do i think that they will get a true bill. Are you from the Hill Country?
-
On 2005-12-22 20:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
but I do depend heavily on the authorities doing their job and giving them the space they need.
"
and therein lies one of the problems.
-
sorry... you lost me there. are you suggesting that my phone callis not giving them the space that they need? I am only asking that they do a complete investigation.
-
On 2005-12-22 20:16:00, MADMOM wrote:
"Well, I would love to think that your theory would work with the facts leading to a true investigation, but I have tried to get the investigator to talk to my son about his experiences when he was at the Star Ranch and they are just not interested. I contacted an officer Twiss by phone and she did not really want to talk to him. My son can show them how they restrain and he can tell them who did it to him. Why not talk to him? I do not have any faith that this is a true investigation, nor do i think that they will get a true bill. Are you from the Hill Country?"
Well I dont think they are out on a witch hunt. They probably have reviewed the hold that was used and will speak to witnesses at the scene and if the same hold was used on them etc.
They may not need your sons testimony because they have enough. If no one was talking or there were no witnesses they would probably welcome your sons input, but I wouldnt dismiss the investigation because they didnt interview your son, there could be a number of reasons.
-
On 2005-12-22 20:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-22 20:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
but I do depend heavily on the authorities doing their job and giving them the space they need.
"
and therein lies one of the problems."
Not sure I understand, there needs to be time to collect information,an hour, a day, a week. What do you suggest, not talking to anyone, just make a decision on your personal feelings that day?
-
I am very unclear about your need to protect this situation. I obviously disagree with you. the law has never protected these children. In fact the laws that are in place right now disregard them. I hope you are able to lay your head on your pillow at night and know that you are doing all that you can to help these helpless children....i know that I have not slept a night since I learned about Mikey. sweet dreams
-
On 2005-12-22 20:39:00, MADMOM wrote:
"I am very unclear about your need to protect this situation. I obviously disagree with you. the law has never protected these children. In fact the laws that are in place right now disregard them. I hope you are able to lay your head on your pillow at night and know that you are doing all that you can to help these helpless children....i know that I have not slept a night since I learned about Mikey. sweet dreams"
Its good that you are able to keep an open mind. Carrying torches and lynching people are not going to help our children. We need to monitor the decisions of our elected officals and put them on the next bus out of town if they are not protecting us.
-
On 2005-12-22 20:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
We need to monitor the decisions of our elected officals and put them on the next bus out of town if they are not protecting us."
In theory that sounds great but its rapidly becoming apparent to more and more of this country that money/dogma/politics speak long and loud in this country.
-
On 2005-12-22 21:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-22 20:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
We need to monitor the decisions of our elected officals and put them on the next bus out of town if they are not protecting us."
In theory that sounds great but its rapidly becoming apparent to more and more of this country that money/dogma/politics speak long and loud in this country."
So true, always had and always will, that why we need to go to the voting booth.
-
Oh yes, voting is where we should be putting our attention. Can you educate us on which candidate DOES NOT SUPPORT THE DRUGGING AND WAREHOUSING of foster kids? This issue goes far beyond local politics.
Here?s a little gas for the fire?..
Things are out of control in Tx in terms of foster kids being over-drugged and placed in RTCs or wilderness programs. A recent report revealed that a foster child was 5 TIMES more likely to be killed or injured in out of home placements.
So, why keep up the illusion? If the state and the programs they use, can not provide this population of kids needs, then perhaps they need to admit that and get out of the business of ?protecting? kids.
Here's a list of TV news clips that reveal how TMAP (Bush/Pharmaco's baby) was hatched in Texas. How much $$$ the drug companies gave the MH Dept in Tx to create TMAP, which would require providers to use their expensive drugs. (Like $8/pill vs .08/pill
*Just a mom- you, I, Madmom, and other Texans are paying for these drugs and RTCs for foster kids, and neither are providing their needs. Neither is capable. This young man alone, was on 5, and still no 'relief'. What's wrong with that picture? The level of ignorance amongst so-called 'helpers' astounds me beyond belief.
Kids in foster care (low income & kids of color) were the guinea pigs for TMAP. Some of their painful stories are included in the links. Texas taxpayers paid out $245 Million in 2004 for psych drugs for this group. Some kids on as many as 14- some that were not approved for use in children, some rx'd off-label.
Best to watch the investigative reports in the proper order.
http://keyetv.com/investigativevideo/ (http://keyetv.com/investigativevideo/)
5/5/04- Failing Texas Foster Children
7/23/04- Psychiatric Drugs
9/30/04- Drugs and Your Tax Dollars
11/4/04- Medicaid Fraud
11/17/04- Texas, Children and Drugs
11/24/04- Children and Antidepressants
3/1/05- Money, Influence and Mental Health
The last really exposes the fraud perpetrated by state MH Dept employees and drug companies. The spokesperson for the Dept would not go on camera, but sent a letter which contained a blatant lie which the reporter uncovers. How can this continue? Darn, I guess we just don't have the right elected officials.
Other informative links on the issue of Tx foster kids being placed in squalid programs.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#69923 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5052&forum=9#69923)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&mode=viewtopic&topic=7068&forum=9&start=0)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#59000 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=6408&forum=9&start=0#59000)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#57566 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5052&forum=9#57566)
The issue of over drugging these kids was addressed in a legislative hearing, in which a shrink who provides ?care? for this population of kids testified that multiple drugs were justified because foster kids came from a ?bad gene pool?.
http://www.house.state.tx.us/fx/av/comm ... 004a51.ram (http://www.house.state.tx.us/fx/av/committee78/41004a51.ram)
You can hear Burkett's testimony re: the bad gene pool comment by advancing to hour 6:22. His resignation was called for.
Truth: they can't love and nurture these kids, so the drug and warehouse them, out-of-sight, out-of-mind.
One thing that is clear to those of us who have been following these issue for many years is that these kids needs are not being met. They could start by paying the most responsible parent or relative what they are paying the drug companies and RTCs. Kids desire and need to be with people who genuinely care about them. Drugs and RTCs cure nothing. They have, too often, killed.
In terms of justice. I won?t hold my breath. Are you familiar with the restraint death of Chase Moody? Brown Schools didn?t like the Med Ex autopsy report and hired Bexar County Chief Medical Examiner Vincent DiMaio to concoct a different cause of death-- ?excited delirium?. In other words, he was responsible for his own death.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... art=0#5473 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=874&forum=9&start=0#5473)
And he was private pay, his father was an attorney, and had actually defended Brown against a restraint death in the past. The irony was uncanny.
You think they?re really going to ?investigate? this little guy?s death and bring justice for him. We can only hope. Historically speaking, you shouldn?t hold your breath either.
Are you remotely aware of how many restraint deaths ocur every year in RTCs- state and private? Read the Hartford Courant?s five-part expose "Deadly Restraint". And when you're done... thank CCHR. No other government agency or private organization has cared the least bit to track this information. Why? Will voting take care of that too. Why hasn't anyone else been interested or concerned? In the meantime, kids are dying unnecessarily.
We'll never know what actually happened that day, but based on historic events, I suspect the kid was provoked to distress, amplified by the drugs, and his punishment for refusing to shower was death by restraint. I have to second what Atomic Ant said- you know when a kid is not breathing. If you don't, you have no business caring for them, and certainly not using restraints.
-
Justamom,
There are no ?proven psych drug treatments? for children. I don?t know what you?re reading but you have been misinformed.
Second, are you aware of the ?black box? warning required for SSRIs? And the FDAs complacency in holding drug companies to ethical practices, namely releasing fraudulent research? Or that placebo works better than drugs for this age group?
You aren?t going to hear the actual ?facts? unless the responsible party happens to be a person of the highest integrity and gives an honest account. You will hear his/her rendition only, because Mikey is not here to tell his.
Chemical and physical restraints never have and never will ?heal? a broken heart.
"Acting out" due to abuse and a broken heart are not 'mental illnesses'. They don't require 'treatment'. Only love.
-
A partial list of boot camp victims
Some of them died after placed in a »full basket restraint«, lasting up to an hour and a half.
Michelle Sutton, dead at age 15, Summit Quest
Kristen Chase, dead at age 16, Challenger
Paul Choy, dead at age 16, Rite of Passage
Aaron Bacon, dead at age 16, Northstar
Dawnne Takeuchi, dead at age 18, VisionQuest
Lorenzo Johnson, dead at age 17, Arizona Boys Ranch
Carlos Ruiz, dead at age 13, VisionQuest
Mario Cano, dead at age 16, VisionQuest
John Vincent Garrison, dead at age 18, VisionQuest
Bernard Reefer, dead, VisionQuest
Robert Zimmerman, dead, VisionQuest
Charles Lucas, dead, VisionQuest
James Lamb, dead, VisionQuest
Tammy Edmiston, dead, VisionQuest
Leon Anger, dead, VisionQuest
Charles Collins, Jr., dead at age 15, Crossroads for Youth
Jamie Young, dead at age 13, Ramsey Canyon
John Avila, dead, Rocky Mountain Academy
Danny Lewis, dead at age 16, VisionQues
Nicholas Contreras, dead at age 16, Arizona Boys Ranch
Edith Campos, dead at age 15, Desert Hills
Matt Toppi, dead at age 17, Robert Land Academy
Chirs Brown, dead at age 16, Robert Land Academy
Eric David Schibley, dead at age 17, VisionQuest
Chad Andrew Frenza, dead at age 16, Polk County Boot Camp
Robert Doyle Erwin, dead at age 15, VisionQuest
Lyle Foodroy, dead, VisionQuest
Gina Score, dead at age 14, State Training School (South Dakota)
Bryan Dale Alexander, dead at age 18, Texas Correctional Services
Michael Wiltsie, dead at age 12, Eckert Youth Alternatives
Tristan Sovern, dead at age 16, Charter Behavioral Health System
Robert Rollins, dead at age 12, Devereaux School
Andrew McClain, dead at age 11, Elmcrest Psychiatric Hospital
Anthony Haynes, dead at age 14, American Buffalo Soldiers Boot Camp
Ian August, dead at age 14, Skyline Journey
Charles »Chase« Moody, dead at age 17, The Brown School (CEDU affiliated)
Roberto Reyes, dead at age 15, Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp
Travis Parker, dead at age13, Appalachian Wilderness Camp
...and counting.
Do a search on "basket restraint" and you'll quickly see it is not an approved restraint for child care workers and that it kills kids over and over and over again. Seriously, just google "basket restraint" and you'll see why it should be renamed "CASKET RESTRAINT."
Fucking sick child killers. "Act right or I'll restrain (kill) you." Scumbags.
-
Good morning. First, Deborah, thank you for all the informative links. I will be looking at and listening to them.
The reason I've even found this site and posted here is because I was looking for more information. I don't have all or even any of the answers. I need to learn more.
That said, I will explain that my son had serious issues and that is why he was at Star Ranch last year. We sent him and he had a good experience; that would not have happened at a regular summer camp. They just wouldn't have been able to deal with his behavior.
No, I don't have experience with CPS, or out of home placement, or dealing with law enforcement regarding the housing of my child. So I can't address any issues about that, and your links and information will help me understand that better. We've had to make our own decisions regarding medication, and have made those based on the best information we could find, and based on what was in our son's best interest.
I had trouble sleeping as well last night, thinking of this entire issue, and wanting to remain open minded. But I will admit to waking up a little cynical and jaded, and feeling a little less confident in my fellow man as regards how we care for our most needy.
I hope to learn more about this, and hopefully do something (however small) about it.
Merry Christmas everybody.
-
Good morning, you must feel better after releasing all that info. Deborah, I am not disagreeing with you, I just approach it a little different than you, I havent taken on the drug companies, or the foster care system, welfare system or had time to change our system of voting or have researched every type of RTC. I am sure all that has happened as you say and much,much more. I have found that if you try to take on too much you get nothing done (just my personal experience) and you have taken on quite a bit.
We'll never know what actually happened that day, but based on historic events, I suspect the kid was provoked to distress, amplified by the drugs, and his punishment for refusing to shower was death by restraint. I have to second what Atomic Ant said- you know when a kid is not breathing. If you don't, you have no business caring for them, and certainly not using restraints
Seems like everyone wants to just jump in and start hanging people, some people have already made their stand and it wont matter what the results of the investigation are (unless it agrees with their prejudged preclusion). You mention one possible senerio and if that is true the punishment should follow, but I am not that type of person, I just cant help it, I need to hear from the people who witnessed the action and medical opinions etc. I dont have knowledge in forensics, basket holds, medicine interactions etc. I have never killed anyone so I wouldnt know what it feels like when someone stops breathing, especially if they are still kicking and fighting back etc. Very few people do have all those experiences, so we have to depend on each persons report and then a joint conclusion will follow. I dont see any other way. We need to put our own personal grevences and baggage aside and start doing something for the kids out there, like listening to what happened and push for changes so it doesnt happen again.
I do see your frustration, though, deborah. I have been there.
-
On 2005-12-23 05:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"A partial list of boot camp victims
Some of them died after placed in a »full basket restraint«, lasting up to an hour and a half.
Michelle Sutton, dead at age 15, Summit Quest
Kristen Chase, dead at age 16, Challenger
Paul Choy, dead at age 16, Rite of Passage
Aaron Bacon, dead at age 16, Northstar
Dawnne Takeuchi, dead at age 18, VisionQuest
Lorenzo Johnson, dead at age 17, Arizona Boys Ranch
Carlos Ruiz, dead at age 13, VisionQuest
Mario Cano, dead at age 16, VisionQuest
John Vincent Garrison, dead at age 18, VisionQuest
Bernard Reefer, dead, VisionQuest
Robert Zimmerman, dead, VisionQuest
Charles Lucas, dead, VisionQuest
James Lamb, dead, VisionQuest
Tammy Edmiston, dead, VisionQuest
Leon Anger, dead, VisionQuest
Charles Collins, Jr., dead at age 15, Crossroads for Youth
Jamie Young, dead at age 13, Ramsey Canyon
John Avila, dead, Rocky Mountain Academy
Danny Lewis, dead at age 16, VisionQues
Nicholas Contreras, dead at age 16, Arizona Boys Ranch
Edith Campos, dead at age 15, Desert Hills
Matt Toppi, dead at age 17, Robert Land Academy
Chirs Brown, dead at age 16, Robert Land Academy
Eric David Schibley, dead at age 17, VisionQuest
Chad Andrew Frenza, dead at age 16, Polk County Boot Camp
Robert Doyle Erwin, dead at age 15, VisionQuest
Lyle Foodroy, dead, VisionQuest
Gina Score, dead at age 14, State Training School (South Dakota)
Bryan Dale Alexander, dead at age 18, Texas Correctional Services
Michael Wiltsie, dead at age 12, Eckert Youth Alternatives
Tristan Sovern, dead at age 16, Charter Behavioral Health System
Robert Rollins, dead at age 12, Devereaux School
Andrew McClain, dead at age 11, Elmcrest Psychiatric Hospital
Anthony Haynes, dead at age 14, American Buffalo Soldiers Boot Camp
Ian August, dead at age 14, Skyline Journey
Charles »Chase« Moody, dead at age 17, The Brown School (CEDU affiliated)
Roberto Reyes, dead at age 15, Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp
Travis Parker, dead at age13, Appalachian Wilderness Camp
...and counting.
Do a search on "basket restraint" and you'll quickly see it is not an approved restraint for child care workers and that it kills kids over and over and over again. Seriously, just google "basket restraint" and you'll see why it should be renamed "CASKET RESTRAINT."
Fucking sick child killers. "Act right or I'll restrain (kill) you." Scumbags.
"
I did a search and it seems to be acceptable in some states but it does have a high risk of injury. What other methods are approved if a child is harming themselves? This must be looked at, before one method is terminated.
It is not apparent how many on your list were killed by restraint, is that info available? It would be helpful in making a case against restraints.
-
I'm speculating based on historical events, just as you've speculated that I 'must feel better after releasing all that info' and that I may have taken on too much and get nothing done.
It's like guessing the end of a movie when you've seen the same plot over and over.
Now if I were the one responsible for deciding the outcome, might be a different story.
My speculations/imaginings do not interfere with you waiting for the results of the investigation. By all means please do that.
Do I believe that the investigators and program owners are free of any speculation themselves?
No.
-
If you read all of the news articles and believe them then everything that could have been done for this poor child was done...his parents messed him up so bad that there was little that could have been done for him at this point. That is the criminal act - not the restraint.
What exactly was the counsler supposed to do when the kid started banging his head on the ground?
Pour a cup a tea and chat about his future plans...
What I don't understand is why was this child not in a hospital with as troubled as he was and being on the drug coctail that he was on --
My son also took risperdal and depkote for mis diagnoised Manic Depression -- he also was on ritilan and adderal for years -- at the time I thought the drugs were a god send -- I was wrong.
We never got to the root of his issues and to the part that I played in them... after all these years it took a good Wilderness Program Counsler to spot that something organically was going on with my son.
We arranged the appropriate battery of intellectual and phyc tests and low and behold found he had a very serious processing problem that stunted his ability to learn to decode language and made school a hellish place to be.
He has no Phonics skills -- imagine being in 2nd grade with no phonics skills -- you are everything from lazy to stupid to defiant -- then you start getting kicked out of class since the principles office is better than being humiliated in the class.
Better yet you start doing things to get you suspended -- then you don't have to be there at all... etc...etc...etc...
He was not Bi-Polar and while he does have ADHD he is currently on zero medication and is learning to deal with his issues in a RTC in New Mexico based on the PPC Model.
I worry so much about Foster care in this nation and the kids out there who don't have anyone looking after them and have been subjected to system and system that let them down...
The counsler was doing his job. Adrelinine was pumping though both of them and I'm sure the counsler was terrified as well...
This is just a damn shame no matter how you look at it...
-
Now if I were the one responsible for deciding the outcome, might be a different story.
Yes, I agree I wouldnt be sitting back and waiting. I would be driving for as much info as possible from as many experts as possible. I wish I had some say, its frustrating for me to be on the sidelines.
Like you I wish I had some say or control.
-
I would never even take this kinda of chance with my childs life. I will never understand why some parents think this could not, is not, will not be a possibility for their child, no matter which facility they choose.
We teach our children from the time they are born, "don't talk to strangers." Yet some parents just send their kid/s off to the hands of strangers, in the name of love. The irony just astounds me. No child is safe in the hands of any stranger.....No one will care for your child, like you can.....I'll just never understand.
-
On 2005-12-23 18:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I would never even take this kinda of chance with my childs life. I will never understand why some parents think this could not, is not, will not be a possibility for their child, no matter which facility they choose.
We teach our children from the time they are born, "don't talk to strangers." Yet some parents just send their kid/s off to the hands of strangers, in the name of love. The irony just astounds me. No child is safe in the hands of any stranger.....No one will care for your child, like you can.....I'll just never understand."
I was the same way, I could not comprehend ever sending my child away. But for some there is no other option to keep your child safe from themselves or others. You work with them love them, exhaust every avenue and still your child is putting themselves at risk and you feel they may never come home again and all you want is for them to be safe and live another day. At this point an RTC becomes an option. Maybe not WWASPs but a place which will keep them safe and allow them to continue to grow and get them back on track. You cant and I dont expect to convince anyone that they would feel this way unless they were in that situation themselves. Some of these places are a haven for kids who are at risk. Some, like everything else, dont need to be there at all.
-
Justamom,
I was so glad to read your post today. I wish that more people would at least attempt to see the truth behind this whole mess. I hope that you will start asking question, demand answers, and insist that the laws change. We will never be able to demand more transparancy with CPS, Foster Care Children, "Psyco" Psycs, and Rtc's abuse of children without numbers of voters bonding together. I encourage you to explore the truth and then I challenge you to take action.
-
THIS PLACE KILLS KIDS. BEWARE. :skull:
-
Bottom line here is these places Boot Camps, RTCs should all be shut down. Chrildren are being Killed! Vision Quist had over five children die in there care almost every year. Whats wrong with this world? Whats wrong these parernts? Do they think these stories are untrue. Do people really think these places help? Are people that Stupid that they can take a 50/50 chance there son or daughter will come out of one of these places Alive. I hate these places,and I hate the people that place these kids in these places. There lives are put at more risk then if they were out on the streets doing drugs. Most of the parents that send there kids to these places go to bed with a warm feeling inside at night thinking there child is safe, in good hands.Little do they know is that they too can still get that Dredful phone call in the middell of the night. We need to do something to help these kids. Someone has to STOP these kids from being MURDERED!
-
On 2005-12-28 22:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Bottom line here is these places Boot Camps, RTCs should all be shut down. Chrildren are being Killed! Vision Quist had over five children die in there care almost every year. Whats wrong with this world? Whats wrong these parernts? Do they think these stories are untrue. Do people really think these places help? Are people that Stupid that they can take a 50/50 chance there son or daughter will come out of one of these places Alive. I hate these places,and I hate the people that place these kids in these places. There lives are put at more risk then if they were out on the streets doing drugs. Most of the parents that send there kids to these places go to bed with a warm feeling inside at night thinking there child is safe, in good hands.Little do they know is that they too can still get that Dredful phone call in the middell of the night. We need to do something to help these kids. Someone has to STOP these kids from being MURDERED! "
I dont think it is accurate to condem all schools because of a few which have problems. There are some inner city schools which should be closed due to violence but I dont think we should advocate shutting down every school in America. Lets focus on the problem areas, it makes it easier to handle also.
Parents do and should sleep well knowing their child is safe and off the streets where they could be killed. I guess I would not place them in Vision quist (I ahve never heard of it) or any other school without first investigating it.
-
On 2005-12-28 22:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Bottom line here is these places Boot Camps, RTCs should all be shut down. Chrildren are being Killed! Vision Quist had over five children die in there care almost every year. Whats wrong with this world? Whats wrong these parernts? Do they think these stories are untrue. Do people really think these places help? Are people that Stupid that they can take a 50/50 chance there son or daughter will come out of one of these places Alive. I hate these places,and I hate the people that place these kids in these places. There lives are put at more risk then if they were out on the streets doing drugs. Most of the parents that send there kids to these places go to bed with a warm feeling inside at night thinking there child is safe, in good hands.Little do they know is that they too can still get that Dredful phone call in the middell of the night. We need to do something to help these kids. Someone has to STOP these kids from being MURDERED! "
First of all the kids at vision quest died in a car accident in which they drowned...Vision Quest has been shut down -- I believe....
Do you even have kids? I have a son in a treatment center and I sleep quite well -- thank you...
Much better than when he was using crack and meth and not coming home at night. I'll take his odds in a well run treatment center (many are not well run) over the street any day of the week.
When he is 18 he can choose for himself with my blessing -- until then it is my responsibility to at least attempt to intervene and offer him the chance to live long enough to make his own decisions.
It is much more irresponsible to not act -- Don't use the tired phrase that all these kids need is better parents and more love and more structure -- some of us have exausted every avenue and for once in our childrens lives they are making real progress --
I think it is critical to listen to your kids no matter what they are telling you both by thier words as well as their actions. My son tells me he is so thankful that we got him the help he could not get in a home setting.
There are good schools and good programs out there...it is our job to check them out and keep checking them out every minute our kids are there.
Don't think we just send them away and think someone is going to fix them -- that is not the case.
-
On 2005-12-29 11:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-28 22:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Bottom line here is these places Boot Camps, RTCs should all be shut down. Chrildren are being Killed! Vision Quist had over five children die in there care almost every year. Whats wrong with this world? Whats wrong these parernts? Do they think these stories are untrue. Do people really think these places help? Are people that Stupid that they can take a 50/50 chance there son or daughter will come out of one of these places Alive. I hate these places,and I hate the people that place these kids in these places. There lives are put at more risk then if they were out on the streets doing drugs. Most of the parents that send there kids to these places go to bed with a warm feeling inside at night thinking there child is safe, in good hands.Little do they know is that they too can still get that Dredful phone call in the middell of the night. We need to do something to help these kids. Someone has to STOP these kids from being MURDERED! "
First of all the kids at vision quest died in a car accident in which they drowned...Vision Quest has been shut down -- I believe....
Do you even have kids? I have a son in a treatment center and I sleep quite well -- thank you...
Much better than when he was using crack and meth and not coming home at night. I'll take his odds in a well run treatment center (many are not well run) over the street any day of the week.
When he is 18 he can choose for himself with my blessing -- until then it is my responsibility to at least attempt to intervene and offer him the chance to live long enough to make his own decisions.
It is much more irresponsible to not act -- Don't use the tired phrase that all these kids need is better parents and more love and more structure -- some of us have exausted every avenue and for once in our childrens lives they are making real progress --
I think it is critical to listen to your kids no matter what they are telling you both by thier words as well as their actions. My son tells me he is so thankful that we got him the help he could not get in a home setting.
There are good schools and good programs out there...it is our job to check them out and keep checking them out every minute our kids are there.
Don't think we just send them away and think someone is going to fix them -- that is not the case.
"
This thread is about a PARTICULAR program. This PARTICULAR program has a sad history of KILLING CHILDREN.
Now if your experience is with this program, then say so and talk about your experiences. If you are talking about a DIFFERENT program, you should try to find a/post a new thread about your program so you can avoid distracting from the focus on this PARTICULAR program's killing of children.
:skull: WARNING: THIS PLACE KILLS KIDS :skull:
-
This thread is about a PARTICULAR program. This PARTICULAR program has a sad history of KILLING CHILDREN
No, this thread was started in response to a death at Star Ranch in Tx. I didnt see anywhere a history of killing children talked about at this place, I think you are on the wrong thread.....
-
Actually, this whole thread has been about Star Ranch and the unfortunate death of a young man who was killed while in a restraint hold. Please stick to the topic.....
-
if the parents were trying to raise their kids, instead of getting information from a forum like this, then this discussion wouldn't be happening. It's amazing the people who sit on here during normal daylight hours, bitching, and advancing their knowledge and beliefs, but makes one wonder, what the hell are you doing? You not have a job or something? BTW, I'm retired.
-
On 2005-12-29 15:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"if the parents were trying to raise their kids, instead of getting information from a forum like this, then this discussion wouldn't be happening. It's amazing the people who sit on here during normal daylight hours, bitching, and advancing their knowledge and beliefs, but makes one wonder, what the hell are you doing? You not have a job or something? BTW, I'm retired. "
Retired from what? Life? You should be out doing something, helping out kids, other adults etc.
Dont judge others harshly because they are seeking help, you should be ashamed of yourself.
-
On 2005-12-10 10:41:00, AtomicAnt wrote:
"
On 2005-12-10 06:28:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"It has nothing to do with wanting to hurt a kid, or not wanting to hurt a kid. Their just is no way to completely eliminate the potential risk for injuries or death in a restraint. All the training in the world can not cope with the contigencies faced in real world situations that do not have the nice control atmosphere of a dojo.
In the real world restraints never seem to ever happen on a nice padded surface with people about to supervise the situation. Most of the time they take place on a nice concrete floor, or with your left kidney balanced on a sharp rock with some pissed off kid kicking you in the nuts.
Restraints never seem to go down with that textbook precision in training classes that have you break it down by the steps as you ease the youth to the nice padded floor, and carefully work through the motions to avoid injury. Never do you see a restraint take place where you have all the staff in world to help control the situation before it escalates out of hand.
This is coming from a person who single handedly performed over 200 standing, and prone restraints and only witnessed 5 major injuries during that time, and 4 of them were to myself. The one injury of significance was a broken collar bone that also resulted in me dislocating a finger.
Sorry Niles but practical experience tells me that their is just no way to do it safely, whether the person wants to hurt the kid, or even whether the person wants to prevent the kid from hurting themselves.
What is a committee? A group of the unwilling, picked from the unfit, to do the unnecessary.
-- Richard Harkness, The New York Times, 1960
"
Sorry TSW, but my bullshit radar is blaring and screaming. I understand what you mean about surfaces, supervision, and all, but the danger you describe is in blunt trama and results in broken bones. This kid suffocated. I've been in enough wrestling matches, real fights, and parental restraining situations (from both sides) to know that if someone lets a kid suffocate, they are either stupid or a murderer. You can tell when someone can't breath and I want you to lighten up. It takes a pretty long time of not breathing to reach the point where someone cannot be revived. I'm not convinced there can be any valid excuse for suffocating a little kid to death."
Same. GO DO SOME DAMN JUUJUTSU (or jiujitsu, however the hell they romanize it) OR JUDO! You definitely can, especially if youre bigger than the kid and outnumber him.
Unless its a full scale riot there is NO way you cant unsafely restrain a child without physically or psychologically hurting them, unless you just fucking want to, dont care if you do, and youre trained.Real criminals walk free every day to rape, rob, and murder again because the courts are so busy finding consensual criminals guilty of hurting no one but themselves.... To free cells for consensual criminals, real criminals are put on the street every day.
Peter McWilliams
-
Sorry TSW, but my bullshit radar is blaring and screaming. I understand what you mean about surfaces, supervision, and all, but the danger you describe is in blunt trama and results in broken bones. This kid suffocated. I've been in enough wrestling matches, real fights, and parental restraining situations (from both sides) to know that if someone lets a kid suffocate, they are either stupid or a murderer. You can tell when someone can't breath and I want you to lighten up. It takes a pretty long time of not breathing to reach the point where someone cannot be revived. I'm not convinced there can be any valid excuse for suffocating a little kid to death."
A restraining hold was used, it wasnt murder. If he wanted to kill the kid, why not hold his head under water or do it at night? Why do it in front of the whole school in the pool area?
Its hard to tell if a kid has stopped breathing when he is kicking, biting thrashing about. It is nice to speculate and all but that is all we are doing until the investigation is over.
-
On 2005-12-29 16:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Sorry TSW, but my bullshit radar is blaring and screaming. I understand what you mean about surfaces, supervision, and all, but the danger you describe is in blunt trama and results in broken bones. This kid suffocated. I've been in enough wrestling matches, real fights, and parental restraining situations (from both sides) to know that if someone lets a kid suffocate, they are either stupid or a murderer. You can tell when someone can't breath and I want you to lighten up. It takes a pretty long time of not breathing to reach the point where someone cannot be revived. I'm not convinced there can be any valid excuse for suffocating a little kid to death."
A restraining hold was used, it wasnt murder. If he wanted to kill the kid, why not hold his head under water or do it at night? Why do it in front of the whole school in the pool area?
Its hard to tell if a kid has stopped breathing when he is kicking, biting thrashing about. It is nice to speculate and all but that is all we are doing until the investigation is over.
"
************************************************
Maybe you should read the thread. Here is the thread-starter. As you can see from reading it, a child was killed by an employee of the facility. I'm not sure why you have such a hard time grasping that.
*************************************************
Deborah
Prolific contributor
Joined: 2002-08-19
Posts: 2539
From: Texas
Posted: 2005-12-09 12:37:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/ ... 14ef5.html (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA120805.01B.kerr_death.17c14ef5.html)
Autopsy shows boy, 12, at Kerr center suffocated
Web Posted: 12/08/2005 12:00 AM CST
Zeke MacCormack
Express-News Staff Writer
Autopsy findings released Wednesday attribute the weekend death of a Kerrville boy to suffocation while being restrained at Star Ranch, a
residential treatment center in Ingram.
An unidentified ranch staffer reportedly placed Christening "Mikie" Garcia, 12, in "a basket hold" as the emotionally disturbed youngster tried to bang his own head on the pavement.
Arms across his chest and hands held from behind by the staffer, Garcia stopped breathing Sunday evening and couldn't be revived, officials said.
Kerr County Justice of the Peace Bill Ragsdale is awaiting the results of toxicology tests on the boy, and investigations by state and local
authorities, before ruling on the manner of death.
The boy's parents could not be reached for comment.
A funeral service for him will be held at 9:30 a.m. Friday at Kerrville Funeral Home at 1121 Junction Highway.
Court records show Garcia had a history of banging his head. In January 2000, the state removed him and two other siblings from a household described as being in crisis.
At the time, the children's mother, Doris Garcia, now 40, moved out to escape what she called years of physical abuse by the father of her five kids, Innocencio Garcia, now 61.
Police had repeatedly responded to the Garcia home on complaints of domestic violence and runaway children, records show.
A Kerrville police officer, answering an assault complaint there on Dec. 13, 1999, said: "Violence is part of their everyday existence."
Doris and Innocencio Garcia relinquished their parental rights in 2004, records show.
An Oct. 18 report on the three Garcia children still in state custody states "Mikie" was placed at Star Ranch in August after having "serious behavior problems" at school and in a foster home.
"Star Ranch staff report that Mikie has had nine physical restraints in little over 30 days," the report filed in court records states. "He is
reported to be fighting, biting and fleeing."
On Sunday, authorities said, the boy was sent to "timeout" because of a violent outburst, then he banged his head on the ground.
"He had a troubled life and that (head banging) was one of the ways he got attention," said Rand Southard, director of Star Ranch, a private, nonprofit facility that opened in 1989.
[WAY HE GOT ATTENTION? Totally incompetent and has no business working with children]
State placements account for most of the clientele of 32 boys, 7 to 17 years old, with learning disabilities or emotional problems.
Southard said he's confident that the staffer, whom he described as "devastated" by Garcia's death, had followed guidelines.
"We're all upset that this happened," Southard said. "We desperately try to take care of the children in our care. This is a terrible accident."
Ragsdale said Travis County Medical Examiner Roberto Bayardo reported that the autopsy and on-scene circumstances led him to conclude "that the
decedent came to his death as a result of suffocation during physical restraint."
Forced restraint has been associated with at least 20 other deaths in Texas since 1990, according to an Austin watchdog group for psychiatric patients.
Lee Spiller of the Citizens Commission on Human Rights of Texas said such deaths seldom result in prosecution because - as in this situation - the
restraint is described as an effort to aid a troubled client.
"We'd rather see all the facilities be restraint-free," Spiller said Wednesday. "A restraint-free facility may or may not be practical, but I
would say the use of deadly force on small children is definitely impractical."
-
Wake up people! Star Ranch, and All the other (schools) do the same things to these children. Restraint is Restraint Death is Death no matter where it happens. And it IS happening to these helpless kids.
-
Do you sleep better at night because your son is out of the way? How sure are you he s safe? And by the way about 25 children have died in Vision Quest through out the years, look it up yourself. Does it make feel good your son is away? Star Ranch is no deffernt then the rest. They all put the Fear of God in these kids. Is that help? Nobody here used the Tired phrase that the kids needs better parents. It seems to me you yourself have been told that before. Sometimes the truth hurts.
-
On 2005-12-29 18:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Do you sleep better at night because your son is out of the way? How sure are you he s safe? And by the way about 25 children have died in Vision Quest through out the years, look it up yourself. Does it make feel good your son is away? Star Ranch is no deffernt then the rest. They all put the Fear of God in these kids. Is that help? Nobody here used the Tired phrase that the kids needs better parents. It seems to me you yourself have been told that before. Sometimes the truth hurts."
How does vision quest fit into all of this, I thought this was about Star Ranch?
-
************************************************
Maybe you should read the thread. Here is the thread-starter. As you can see from reading it, a child was killed by an employee of the facility. I'm not sure why you have such a hard time grasping that.
*************************************************
Yes I understand completely but some people keep changing the subject to Vison Quest and murder. I dont see the connection, a child was killed during a restaint hold and the investigation is pending, why is this not clear?
Why not wait for the results? You junp to conclusions of conspiracies and murder, people who own the schools are killing kids. If they are really only focused on making money like you say, well wake up Murder and Death isnt good for any business, you cant argue it both ways.
-
It dosent matter where it happend, it happend. :evil:
-
>>>Its hard to tell if a kid has stopped breathing when he is kicking, biting thrashing about. It is nice to speculate and all but that is all we are doing until the investigation is over. <<<
I haven't seen that reported in the papers. Are you speculating, were you a witness, or an apologist?
-
On 2005-12-29 20:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
">>>Its hard to tell if a kid has stopped breathing when he is kicking, biting thrashing about. It is nice to speculate and all but that is all we are doing until the investigation is over. <<<
I haven't seen that reported in the papers. Are you speculating, were you a witness, or an apologist?
"
I am glade you got my point!!
-
On 2005-12-29 16:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
Its hard to tell if a kid has stopped breathing when he is kicking, biting thrashing about.
That's an odd thing to say. If he stopped breathing wouldn't that dictate that he would have stopped moving?
-
On 2005-12-30 06:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-29 16:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
Its hard to tell if a kid has stopped breathing when he is kicking, biting thrashing about.
That's an odd thing to say. If he stopped breathing wouldn't that dictate that he would have stopped moving?"
No -- Try holding your breath, you can still kick and thrash about for a few minutes or atleast sixty seconds.
-
Uh, if you're holding your breath are you breathing?
The kid stopped breathing. That fact shouldn't have escaped these 'couselors'. Period. If you're in intimate enough contact to be restraining the kid there is no way NOT to pick up on the fact that he stopped breathing. I'm not saying it was premeditated murder but how fucking negligent can you possibly get?
-
On 2005-12-30 08:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Uh, if you're holding your breath are you breathing?
The kid stopped breathing. That fact shouldn't have escaped these 'couselors'. Period. If you're in intimate enough contact to be restraining the kid there is no way NOT to pick up on the fact that he stopped breathing. I'm not saying it was premeditated murder but how fucking negligent can you possibly get?"
With all the adrenaline going, struggling etc. I think it could happen. I believe if the two were still it would be very noticable, I agree. But we were not there so we really dont know. All I am saying is that under certain circumstances I believe it is possible for the breathing to go unoticed. We will have to leave these details to the ones who were there.
-
On 2005-12-30 08:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
With all the adrenaline going, struggling etc. I think it could happen. I believe if the two were still it would be very noticable, I agree.
If the kid stopped breathing, which would mean he stopped struggling, why would the person doing the restraining continue to struggle with the kid? I hear what you're saying, but strongly disagree. No excuse for a kid dying from restraint.
-
It's enough of a red flag to keep all but the most ignorant parents away. Beware of murderous programs!
-
If the kid stopped breathing, which would mean he stopped struggling
I think what the guy said is the kid continued to struggle after he stopped breathing, which made it hard to notice that he had stopped breathing, because he was moving around so much.
Then after the kid passed out or whatever happened the counselor might have noticed he wasnt moving, this could be several minutes of not knowing he had stopped breathing at this point.
-
On 2005-12-30 08:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It's enough of a red flag to keep all but the most ignorant parents away. Beware of murderous programs!"
Yes, any place where a death occurs needs a second look.
-
Stands to reason that if a child is being restrained and can not breathe that he will fight harder right before he dies.
Seems a responsible person would release his hold if the kid's struggle for life escalated or spiked beyond safety, at the very minimum, ask the kid if he can breathe. If the kid doesn't respond, chances are good he can't and the hold should be released.
Restraint induces high stress and is too risky to be used on kids, particularly by young, inexperienced, and/or sadistic staff.
-
On 2005-12-30 08:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
I think what the guy said is the kid continued to struggle after he stopped breathing, which made it hard to notice that he had stopped breathing, because he was moving around so much.
Then after the kid passed out or whatever happened the counselor might have noticed he wasnt moving, this could be several minutes of not knowing he had stopped breathing at this point."
This makes absolutely no sense. How can he continue to struggle after he's no longer breathing? Unless you believe he was holding his breath and even then when the movement stopped, so should the restraint!!!! You don't stop breathing AND die simultaneously, it takes a few minutes after cessation of breathing. He would have been unconscious for a few minutes before he died. No movement, no restraint. Again, no excuse for this.
-
Stands to reason that if a child is being restrained and can not breathe that he will fight harder right before he dies
Exactly
Seems a responsible person would release his hold if the kid's struggle for life escalated or spiked beyond safety, at the very minimum, ask the kid if he can breathe. If the kid doesn't respond, chances are good he can't and the hold should be released.
So either the counselor wasnt trained properly or he was trying to kill the kid. Not sure dialog was an option, the kid was trying bang his skull on the ground.
Restraint induces high stress and is too risky to be used on kids, particularly by young, inexperienced, and/or sadistic staff.
I may agree, seems like a legal question for the courts to outlaw its use, but if they do then a replacement procedure needs to be determined to address someone who is harming themselves.
-
Stands to reason that if a child is being restrained and can not breathe that he will fight harder right before he dies
Exactly
Seems a responsible person would release his hold if the kid's struggle for life escalated or spiked beyond safety, at the very minimum, ask the kid if he can breathe. If the kid doesn't respond, chances are good he can't and the hold should be released.
So either the counselor wasnt trained properly or he was trying to kill the kid. Not sure dialog was an option, the kid was trying bang his skull on the ground.
Restraint induces high stress and is too risky to be used on kids, particularly by young, inexperienced, and/or sadistic staff.
I may agree, seems like a legal question for the courts to outlaw its use, but if they do then a replacement procedure needs to be determined to address someone who is harming themselves.
-
>>>>I think what the guy said is the kid continued to struggle after he stopped breathing, which made it hard to notice that he had stopped breathing, because he was moving around so much.<<<
Do you not read the contradiction in that statement?
If he knew the kid CONTINUED TO STRUGGLE AFTER HE STOPPED BREATHING then he KNEW HE WASN'T BREATHING before he died.
I understand the need to feel empathy for this so-called counselor, where's the empathy for the child who had the life squeeze out of him?
-
This makes absolutely no sense. How can he continue to struggle after he's no longer breathing? Unless you believe he was holding his breath and even then when the movement stopped, so should the restraint!!!! You don't stop breathing AND die simultaneously, it takes a few minutes after cessation of breathing. He would have been unconscious for a few minutes before he died. No movement, no restraint. Again, no excuse for this
Again, here is what might have transpired.
1) The child was restrained and at somepoint stopped breathing.
2) With all the adrenaline going the boy might have struggled a few minutes (while not breathing).
3) After a few minutes the boy may have collapsed or relaxed. The counselor would then take a moment to insure he wasnt faking just so he would release his hold, so he would try to start up dialog, notice no response and no breathing. Release his hold and try to get help etc.
But several minutes can go by at this point.
-
I understand the need to feel empathy for this so-called counselor, where's the empathy for the child who had the life squeeze out of him?
read some of the posts on page 1 and 2. Plenty of support for the child that died and his community has stepped forward also
-
On 2005-12-30 09:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
Again, here is what might have transpired.
1) The child was restrained and at somepoint stopped breathing.
2) With all the adrenaline going the boy might have struggled a few minutes (while not breathing).
3) After a few minutes the boy may have collapsed or relaxed. The counselor would then take a moment to insure he wasnt faking just so he would release his hold, so he would try to start up dialog, notice no response and no breathing. Release his hold and try to get help etc.
But several minutes can go by at this point.
"
Witness the astounding logical gymnastic feats, the height of delusion, the depths of self deception. :roll:
Damn, you sure go a long way to try and defend this. No matter how you slice it, this is wrong. I think quite a few would call it negligent homicide. I'm not saying the counselor meant to kill the kid, but shit, you've either got to be near brain dead or just a plain old fucking jerk off, power abusive asshole to NOT recognize that something was terribly, terribly wrong.
-
Damn, you sure go a long way to try and defend this. No matter how you slice it, this is wrong. I think quite a few would call it negligent homicide. I'm not saying the counselor meant to kill the kid, but shit, you've either got to be near brain dead or just a plain old fucking jerk off, power abusive asshole to NOT recognize that something was terribly, terribly wrong.
......or not properly trained. Neither one of us can conclude but only speculate based on a news article
-
On 2005-12-30 09:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
......or not properly trained. Neither one of us can conclude but only speculate based on a news article"
If they haven't been properly trained after the place received previous complaints regarding restraint, its criminal IMO. Why on earth would someone not properly trained in restraint be restraining someone? Why the fuck weren't they properly trained?
-
If I, as a parent, were to sit on my child at home until death occured, what do you think would happen to me?
-
http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?wcd=18247 (http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?wcd=18247)
Hierholzer said emergency medical personnel performed CPR on the boy in an attempt to revive him before taking him to Sid Peterson Memorial Hospital where he died.<<<<
Why did they wait for EMTs to do CPR? No one at Star Ranch trained in CPR? No lifeguard at the pool? Does it make sense that someone without CPR would be allowed to perform restraints, given the risk factor?
http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?wcd=18299 (http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?wcd=18299)
Travis County Medicial Examiner Dr. Roberto Bayardo has ruled that a 12-year-old Star Ranch resident died Sunday night from suffocation while being physically restrained by a staff member.<<<<
No sudden events like cardiac arrest or blood vessel damage, just suffocation.
http://www.kristv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4212909 (http://www.kristv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4212909)
The ranch has been investigated five times in the past two years for alleged abuse andr neglect. Two of the cases have been cleared, and three are pending.>>>
What?s the status on the ?house parent? who was critically injured in the car roll over, five days after the death?
http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?wcd=18300 (http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?wcd=18300)
-
On 2005-12-30 09:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If I, as a parent, were to sit on my child at home until death occured, what do you think would happen to me?
"
Not sure, depends on many factors, was he 19 years old and trying to kill you? or 3 years old. were you using proper restraint or placing a pillow over their face with intent to kill...etc.
-
Great deflection! :roll:
-
Why did they wait for EMTs to do CPR? No one at Star Ranch trained in CPR? No lifeguard at the pool? Does it make sense that someone without CPR would be allowed to perform restraints, given the risk factor?
Good question. See these are the questions we should be asking instead of trying to hang someone without the facts.
It may point to just that, a training issue which, if true, may force a law which would press all schools to comply with mandatory CPR training, Manatory that life guards be hired, etc.
The ranch has been investigated five times in the past two years for alleged abuse andr neglect. Two of the cases have been cleared, and three are pending.>>>
again, 40% of the cases have been cleared, 60% pending and 0% went against the school. They are the facts today, I agree they may change, but any institution which care for kids are going to be sued left and right.
What?s the status on the ?house parent? who was critically injured in the car roll over, five days after the death?
Not sure how this ties in with the restraint but I will take a look. Are you talking about seat belt restraints or air bags?
-
The ranch was opened 16 years ago by nonprofit Star Programs Inc. It has been investigated five times since Dec. 1, 2003, on allegations of abuse and/or neglect, including instances of inappropriate restraints and insufficient supervision, said Patrick Crimmins of the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services.<<<
http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/A ... A1V0A.html (http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D8EBA1V0A.html)
Inappropriate restraints? Insufficient supervision?
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/ ... fid=110730 (http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/Search_Texas_Child_Care/ppFacilityDetails.asp?ptype=RC&fid=110730)
Dec 03- Report- Results pending. Means it's being contested- in Administrative Review.
[For 2 years? What's the problem DFPS?]
Mar 03- Report- one violation found.
A staff person pulled a child by his ankles in an effort to get him to a time out area. The staff's actions indicate the staff failed to use disciplinary measures that were consistent with the facility's policy, that weren't physically damaging, and that there individualized to meet the child's needs.
11 Mar 03- Inspection- 10 violations found.
Keep in mind that three files were randomly selected to review. No ALL files were inspected.
One of the three children's records evaluated was lacking the outcomes of each of the child's prior placements.
One of the three records evaluated was lacking an evaluation of the effectiveness of specific behavior interventions used, as required in the treatment plan review.
One of the three records evaluated was lacking strategies to REDUCE THE NEED FOR BEHAVIOR INTERVENTIONS overall.
The restraint documentation that was reviewed did not include date and time offered to process or the date and time the processing occurred. Two of the restraints reviewed also lacked a description of the actual discussion that took place during the processing period.
The restraint orientation was reviewed and it does not address what THE CHILD MUST DO TO END RESTRAINT nor does it address WHEN THE USE OF A RESTRAINT MUST CEASE.
Upon evaluating restraint documentation from 1/22/04 it appeared by what was documented that the situation that initially prompted the staff to restrain the child DID NOT MEET THE CRITERIA OF AN EMERGENCY SITUATION.
The PRN order for restraints does not include consideration of POTENTIAL MEDICAL OR PSYCHIATRIC CONTRAINDICATIONS.
One of the three records I evaluated had a name of another child/person contained in the objective section of the treatment plan. This also indicates that this section (recreation) of this child's treatment plan was not reviewed. In this same record it had stated in the October treatment plan that this child should visit with his siblings during Christmas. On the February review this same statement was present in the treatment plan review. This should have been removed during the review process because Christmas had passed.
Two of the three records evaluated contained late or missing treatment plan reviews. One of the treatment plan reviews was a month late. The other treatment plan review was two months late.
One of the three children's records evaluated was lacking the child's religous information.
Apr 04- Report-Violations found, results pending.
Jun 04- Report-violation found.
Star Ranch staff failed to properly supervise residents while on an outing to a local recreational center.
Jul 04-Inspection- 3 violations found.
The facility restrooms in most of the cabins had a urine odor. It appeared that the restrooms were not being thoroughly cleaned.
House # 3 Restroom shower and Tub needed to be addressed as the shower lining was cracking and the tub needed to recaulking. In house #4 there was a metal wire hanging from the bottom of a top bunk bed. The rooms in this house (#4) were a bit dosorderly. On the non-contigous home the wall paper in the restroom is needing to be replaced, as there are several portions that are unglued to the wall. Also, In the restroom of this home the plate that is positioned between the shower wall and the cold knob is missing and needs to be replaced. There is a old cabinet in this home that has broken plexiglass exposed and should be repaired or removed.
There was food in the fridge and/or freezer of three of the five homes that was not covered and stored properly.
9 Dec 04- Inspection- Results pending.
27 Dec 04-Report- one violation found.
It was determined that a tray containing several bottles also had two plastic bottles of chocolate syrup that was molded and other containers that did not appear to be of safe quality.
Apr 05- Report- Results pending.
May 05- Report- one violation found.
There was NO RESTRAINT REVIEW for one child who had 4 restraints within 7 days as of 5/9/05.
Jun 05- Report- Results pending.
Sep 05- Inspection- Results pending.
6 Administrative reviews dating back to Mar 03, and results? The most recent in Sept. What could possibly take so long?
-
[wiggle,wiggle,squirm,punt] It may point to just that, a training issue which, if true, may force a law which would press all schools to comply with mandatory CPR training, Manatory that life guards be hired, etc.>>>>
Those laws already exist. If you are caring for children in Tx, whether in a home, center, or RTC; staff MUST be certified in CPR/ First Aid.
If you provide a pool, a lifeguard certified in CPR/ First Aid is mandatory.
A certified lifeguard must be on duty during facility-sponsored [water] activities. Certification must be documented in the personnel record of facility staff used as lifeguards.
And training must be updated every year.
That's the law.
Why didn't this staff give CPR to this child when he collapsed?
Why wasn't his refusal to obey a 'staff order' met with de-escalation?
Staff with current training in cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) must be available and accessible to children in care during all hours of operation. CPR training must be updated at least annually. Training must be conducted by a person certified to provide CPR training.
[Staff] training components [include]:
a. developing and maintaining an environment or milieu that supports positive constructive behaviors;
b. [assessing] causes of behaviors potentially harmful to self or others in children and adolescents including aspects of the environment or milieu;
c. [determining] early signs of behaviors that may become dangerous to [a child] or others;
(continued)
d. [understanding] strategies and techniques the child can use to avoid harmful behaviors;
e. teaching children to use the strategies and techniques to avoid harmful behavior and supporting the children?s efforts;
f. [learning] less-restrictive [intervention] strategies [for preventing] potentially harmful behaviors;
g. [learning] less-restrictive [intervention] strategies [for use] with oppositional children; and
h. [determining] strategies for [the] re-integration of children into the milieu after restraint or seclusion.
5. The remainder of the pre-service behavior intervention training for caregivers who are providing care in a home or facility whose policies allow for the use of any one type of restraint or seclusion must focus on the:
a. different roles and responsibilities of caregivers qualified in behavior intervention and caregivers who are not qualified in behavior intervention; and
b. safe implementation of the restraints and/or seclusion permitted by the rules in this chapter and by the child-care facility and/or child-placing agency?s policies and procedures.
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/ ... oc95294304 (http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/Child_Care_Standards_and_Regulations/MS-24H-March-2005.asp#_Toc95294304)
Further:
The evaluation must take place at each review of the child?s plan of service or treatment plan. The evaluation must focus on:
1. the frequency, patterns, and effectiveness of specific behavior interventions;
[9 restraints in 30 days... I'd say the intervention was not effective. Time to try something different.]
2. strategies to reduce the need for behavior interventions overall; and
3. specific strategies to reduce the need for use of personal, emergency medication, and/or mechanical restraint or seclusion, where applicable.
The psychiatrist or psychologist ordering personal restraint or the treatment team recommending personal restraint must first take into consideration any potential medical (including psychiatric) contraindications, including a child?s history of physical or sexual abuse. This consideration must be documented in the child?s records.
Orders and treatment team recommendations must include the circumstances under which the intervention may be used, instructions for observation of the child while in restraint, the behaviors that indicate the child is ready to be released from restraint, the number of times a child may be restrained in a seven-day period, and the amount of time the child may be restrained regardless of behaviors exhibited.
Only the minimal amount of reasonable and necessary physical force may be used to implement personal restraint. During any personal restraint, a caregiver qualified in behavior intervention must monitor the child?s breathing and other signs of physical distress and take appropriate action to ensure adequate respiration, circulation, and overall well-being. The caregiver monitoring the child should not be the same caregiver that is restraining the child. Appropriate action includes responding when a child indicates he cannot breathe.
Any personal restraint that employs a technique listed [below] is prohibited:
a. restraints that place a child face-down and place pressure on the child?s back;
b. restraints that obstruct the airways of the child or impair the breathing of the child;
c. restraints that obstruct the caregiver?s view of the child?s face; or
d. restraints that restrict the child?s ability to communicate.
Only a caregiver qualified in behavior intervention may apply personal restraint.
If an emergency health situation occurs during personal restraint, the child must be released immediately and treatment obtained.
As soon as possible after personal restraint is started, appropriate caregiver(s) must explain to the child in restraint the behaviors the child must exhibit to be released from the restraint or have the restraint reduced, and permit the child to make suggestions about what actions the caregiver(s) can take to help the child de-escalate.
If the child does not appear to understand what action he must take to be released from the restraint, the caregiver(s) must attempt to re-explain it every 15 minutes until understanding is reached or the child is released from restraint.
-
On 2005-12-30 11:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"[wiggle,wiggle,squirm,punt] It may point to just that, a training issue which, if true, may force a law which would press all schools to comply with mandatory CPR training, Manatory that life guards be hired, etc.>>>>
Those laws already exist. If you are caring for children in Tx, whether in a home, center, or RTC; staff MUST be certified in CPR/ First Aid.
If you provide a pool, a lifeguard certified in CPR/ First Aid is mandatory.
A certified lifeguard must be on duty during facility-sponsored [water] activities. Certification must be documented in the personnel record of facility staff used as lifeguards.
And training must be updated every year.
That's the law.
Why didn't this staff give CPR to this child when he collapsed?
Why wasn't his refusal to obey a 'staff order' met with de-escalation?
Staff with current training in cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) must be available and accessible to children in care during all hours of operation. CPR training must be updated at least annually. Training must be conducted by a person certified to provide CPR training.
[Staff] training components [include]:
a. developing and maintaining an environment or milieu that supports positive constructive behaviors;
b. [assessing] causes of behaviors potentially harmful to self or others in children and adolescents including aspects of the environment or milieu;
c. [determining] early signs of behaviors that may become dangerous to [a child] or others;
(continued)
d. [understanding] strategies and techniques the child can use to avoid harmful behaviors;
e. teaching children to use the strategies and techniques to avoid harmful behavior and supporting the children?s efforts;
f. [learning] less-restrictive [intervention] strategies [for preventing] potentially harmful behaviors;
g. [learning] less-restrictive [intervention] strategies [for use] with oppositional children; and
h. [determining] strategies for [the] re-integration of children into the milieu after restraint or seclusion.
5. The remainder of the pre-service behavior intervention training for caregivers who are providing care in a home or facility whose policies allow for the use of any one type of restraint or seclusion must focus on the:
a. different roles and responsibilities of caregivers qualified in behavior intervention and caregivers who are not qualified in behavior intervention; and
b. safe implementation of the restraints and/or seclusion permitted by the rules in this chapter and by the child-care facility and/or child-placing agency?s policies and procedures.
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/ ... oc95294304 (http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/Child_Care_Standards_and_Regulations/MS-24H-March-2005.asp#_Toc95294304)
Further:
The evaluation must take place at each review of the child?s plan of service or treatment plan. The evaluation must focus on:
1. the frequency, patterns, and effectiveness of specific behavior interventions;
[9 restraints in 30 days... I'd say the intervention was not effective. Time to try something different.]
2. strategies to reduce the need for behavior interventions overall; and
3. specific strategies to reduce the need for use of personal, emergency medication, and/or mechanical restraint or seclusion, where applicable.
The psychiatrist or psychologist ordering personal restraint or the treatment team recommending personal restraint must first take into consideration any potential medical (including psychiatric) contraindications, including a child?s history of physical or sexual abuse. This consideration must be documented in the child?s records.
Orders and treatment team recommendations must include the circumstances under which the intervention may be used, instructions for observation of the child while in restraint, the behaviors that indicate the child is ready to be released from restraint, the number of times a child may be restrained in a seven-day period, and the amount of time the child may be restrained regardless of behaviors exhibited.
Only the minimal amount of reasonable and necessary physical force may be used to implement personal restraint. During any personal restraint, a caregiver qualified in behavior intervention must monitor the child?s breathing and other signs of physical distress and take appropriate action to ensure adequate respiration, circulation, and overall well-being. The caregiver monitoring the child should not be the same caregiver that is restraining the child. Appropriate action includes responding when a child indicates he cannot breathe.
Any personal restraint that employs a technique listed [below] is prohibited:
a. restraints that place a child face-down and place pressure on the child?s back;
b. restraints that obstruct the airways of the child or impair the breathing of the child;
c. restraints that obstruct the caregiver?s view of the child?s face; or
d. restraints that restrict the child?s ability to communicate.
Only a caregiver qualified in behavior intervention may apply personal restraint.
If an emergency health situation occurs during personal restraint, the child must be released immediately and treatment obtained.
As soon as possible after personal restraint is started, appropriate caregiver(s) must explain to the child in restraint the behaviors the child must exhibit to be released from the restraint or have the restraint reduced, and permit the child to make suggestions about what actions the caregiver(s) can take to help the child de-escalate.
If the child does not appear to understand what action he must take to be released from the restraint, the caregiver(s) must attempt to re-explain it every 15 minutes until understanding is reached or the child is released from restraint.
"
uh-oh, look out. there really ARE laws to stop child killers from practicing their craft.
THIS PLACE KILLS KIDS :skull: :skull:
-
On 2005-12-30 11:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-30 11:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"[wiggle,wiggle,squirm,punt] It may point to just that, a training issue which, if true, may force a law which would press all schools to comply with mandatory CPR training, Manatory that life guards be hired, etc.>>>>
Those laws already exist. If you are caring for children in Tx, whether in a home, center, or RTC; staff MUST be certified in CPR/ First Aid.
If you provide a pool, a lifeguard certified in CPR/ First Aid is mandatory.
A certified lifeguard must be on duty during facility-sponsored [water] activities. Certification must be documented in the personnel record of facility staff used as lifeguards.
And training must be updated every year.
That's the law.
Why didn't this staff give CPR to this child when he collapsed?
Why wasn't his refusal to obey a 'staff order' met with de-escalation?
Staff with current training in cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) must be available and accessible to children in care during all hours of operation. CPR training must be updated at least annually. Training must be conducted by a person certified to provide CPR training.
[Staff] training components [include]:
a. developing and maintaining an environment or milieu that supports positive constructive behaviors;
b. [assessing] causes of behaviors potentially harmful to self or others in children and adolescents including aspects of the environment or milieu;
c. [determining] early signs of behaviors that may become dangerous to [a child] or others;
(continued)
d. [understanding] strategies and techniques the child can use to avoid harmful behaviors;
e. teaching children to use the strategies and techniques to avoid harmful behavior and supporting the children?s efforts;
f. [learning] less-restrictive [intervention] strategies [for preventing] potentially harmful behaviors;
g. [learning] less-restrictive [intervention] strategies [for use] with oppositional children; and
h. [determining] strategies for [the] re-integration of children into the milieu after restraint or seclusion.
5. The remainder of the pre-service behavior intervention training for caregivers who are providing care in a home or facility whose policies allow for the use of any one type of restraint or seclusion must focus on the:
a. different roles and responsibilities of caregivers qualified in behavior intervention and caregivers who are not qualified in behavior intervention; and
b. safe implementation of the restraints and/or seclusion permitted by the rules in this chapter and by the child-care facility and/or child-placing agency?s policies and procedures.
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/ ... oc95294304 (http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/Child_Care_Standards_and_Regulations/MS-24H-March-2005.asp#_Toc95294304)
Further:
The evaluation must take place at each review of the child?s plan of service or treatment plan. The evaluation must focus on:
1. the frequency, patterns, and effectiveness of specific behavior interventions;
[9 restraints in 30 days... I'd say the intervention was not effective. Time to try something different.]
2. strategies to reduce the need for behavior interventions overall; and
3. specific strategies to reduce the need for use of personal, emergency medication, and/or mechanical restraint or seclusion, where applicable.
The psychiatrist or psychologist ordering personal restraint or the treatment team recommending personal restraint must first take into consideration any potential medical (including psychiatric) contraindications, including a child?s history of physical or sexual abuse. This consideration must be documented in the child?s records.
Orders and treatment team recommendations must include the circumstances under which the intervention may be used, instructions for observation of the child while in restraint, the behaviors that indicate the child is ready to be released from restraint, the number of times a child may be restrained in a seven-day period, and the amount of time the child may be restrained regardless of behaviors exhibited.
Only the minimal amount of reasonable and necessary physical force may be used to implement personal restraint. During any personal restraint, a caregiver qualified in behavior intervention must monitor the child?s breathing and other signs of physical distress and take appropriate action to ensure adequate respiration, circulation, and overall well-being. The caregiver monitoring the child should not be the same caregiver that is restraining the child. Appropriate action includes responding when a child indicates he cannot breathe.
Any personal restraint that employs a technique listed [below] is prohibited:
a. restraints that place a child face-down and place pressure on the child?s back;
b. restraints that obstruct the airways of the child or impair the breathing of the child;
c. restraints that obstruct the caregiver?s view of the child?s face; or
d. restraints that restrict the child?s ability to communicate.
Only a caregiver qualified in behavior intervention may apply personal restraint.
If an emergency health situation occurs during personal restraint, the child must be released immediately and treatment obtained.
As soon as possible after personal restraint is started, appropriate caregiver(s) must explain to the child in restraint the behaviors the child must exhibit to be released from the restraint or have the restraint reduced, and permit the child to make suggestions about what actions the caregiver(s) can take to help the child de-escalate.
If the child does not appear to understand what action he must take to be released from the restraint, the caregiver(s) must attempt to re-explain it every 15 minutes until understanding is reached or the child is released from restraint.
"
uh-oh, look out. there really ARE laws to stop child killers from practicing their craft.
THIS PLACE KILLS KIDS :skull: :skull: "
If what you say is true the cuffs will go on any minute:
Lets wait and See
-
well, let's see if the Tx DFPS does their job. doesn't look good, given that there are previous reviews 'pending' for as long as two years. what's the hold up?
what happens when all the abusive hell holes are closed and the state has no where to place foster kids? might they have to wave the white flag and get out of the business of intervening in people's lives, under the guise of protecting and helping. har!!
-
On 2005-12-30 11:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
If what you say is true the cuffs will go on any minute:
Lets wait and See"
Uh huh. Sure. The place I was in went on abusing kids for years even though reports of abuse were rampant. Hell, a couple of kids actually received judgements against these creeps and still nothing was done. Not until boatloads of us started talking about what really went on behind closed doors did anyone even start to pay attention and shut it down. By that time the cancer had grown from one program in one state to many, many programs in various states around the country.
-
On 2005-12-30 14:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-30 11:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
If what you say is true the cuffs will go on any minute:
Lets wait and See"
Uh huh. Sure. The place I was in went on abusing kids for years even though reports of abuse were rampant. Hell, a couple of kids actually received judgements against these creeps and still nothing was done. Not until boatloads of us started talking about what really went on behind closed doors did anyone even start to pay attention and shut it down. By that time the cancer had grown from one program in one state to many, many programs in various states around the country."
Looks like you have your mind made up, so the results will not matter to you much. There are some of us who want to make a difference and implement some changes based on results of the investigation. It seems like there are other who just want to blindly shut down every school in America without giving thought to what will replace them.
-
well, let's see if the Tx DFPS does their job. doesn't look good, given that there are previous reviews 'pending' for as long as two years. what's the hold up?
I have heard the school has petitioned the courts to either set a court date or drop the charges. The school wants to move forward.
what happens when all the abusive hell holes are closed and the state has no where to place foster kids?
The good ones will still be open, which will creat a need and set an example for programs that work and those which dont work. The ones that dont work will go out of business eventually, the good ones will have to expand to respond to demand.
-
There are some of us who want to make a difference and implement some changes based on results of the investigation.>>>>
there are ample laws.
laws that can't be/ aren't enforced.
what new 'magical' law will you advocate for that might end the death of children under the guise of 'therapy'?
seriously, how do you propose to force programs to operate ethically.
what do you propose that might force the state to do the job they are sanctioned with?
you got a facility with numerous violations around illegal restraints, a kid is dead due to restraint, two year old 'pending' violations, and the state hasn't pulled the kids they placed there and will probably continue to place there.
hell, they shut down Woodside Trails for 'multiple violations' of regs... NO deaths.
is the state playing favorites????
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#57566 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5052&forum=9#57566)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&mode=viewtopic&topic=6984&forum=9&start=0)
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 88&forum=9 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=11088&forum=9)
-
On 2005-12-30 22:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"There are some of us who want to make a difference and implement some changes based on results of the investigation.>>>>
there are ample laws.
laws that can't be/ aren't enforced.
what new 'magical' law will you advocate for that might end the death of children under the guise of 'therapy'?
seriously, how do you propose to force programs to operate ethically.
what do you propose that might force the state to do the job they are sanctioned with?
you got a facility with numerous violations around illegal restraints, a kid is dead due to restraint, two year old 'pending' violations, and the state hasn't pulled the kids they placed there and will probably continue to place there.
hell, they shut down Woodside Trails for 'multiple violations' of regs... NO deaths.
is the state playing favorites????
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#57566 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5052&forum=9#57566)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&mode=viewtopic&topic=6984&forum=9&start=0)
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 88&forum=9 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=11088&forum=9)"
Its not clear what you propose to do. We have a school with pending violations that the school is pushing to get resolved and the state is dragging its feet. The school has been cleared in their past cases.
The schools clearly need to be improved and monitored. They should contnue to be monitored and improved forever, in my opinion.
The links you provided were for a different school, not sure what the intent was, I can only speculate (maybe same owners)?
If there are laws on the books that are being ignored then we should start there, maybe.
-
Different school? Nope.
http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/ ... fid=110730 (http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/Child_Care/Search_Texas_Child_Care/ppFacilityDetails.asp?ptype=RC&fid=110730)
Operation Details
You may click on the question mark image ( ) to view the Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) page.
Operation Number: 254498
Operation Type: Residential Treatment Center
Operation/Caregiver Name: STAR RANCH RTC
Location Address: 149 Camp Scenic Loop
INGRAM, TX 78025
Mailing Address: 149 CAMP SCENIC LOOP
INGRAM, TX 78025
Phone Number: 830-367-4868
County: KERR
Website Address: http://www.starranch.org (http://www.starranch.org)
Email Address: [email protected]
Administrator/Director Name: PAUL BROUSE
Type of Issuance: Full Permit
Issuance Date: 11/20/1993
Conditions on Permit: No
Days of Operation: N/A
Total Capacity: 36
Licensed to Serve Ages: 7 - 17
Scroll down for details of violations and pending decisions.
The intent is to show that this program has had some significant violations of regulations, and some specifically related to restraint. Parents should have access to this information, but frequently don't know how to find it. The link is accurate.
This should be brought to the DA's attention as well as the court.
What's your intent? Denial?
-
On 2005-12-31 09:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-30 22:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"There are some of us who want to make a difference and implement some changes based on results of the investigation.>>>>
there are ample laws.
laws that can't be/ aren't enforced.
what new 'magical' law will you advocate for that might end the death of children under the guise of 'therapy'?
seriously, how do you propose to force programs to operate ethically.
what do you propose that might force the state to do the job they are sanctioned with?
you got a facility with numerous violations around illegal restraints, a kid is dead due to restraint, two year old 'pending' violations, and the state hasn't pulled the kids they placed there and will probably continue to place there.
hell, they shut down Woodside Trails for 'multiple violations' of regs... NO deaths.
is the state playing favorites????
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#57566 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5052&forum=9#57566)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&mode=viewtopic&topic=6984&forum=9&start=0)
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 88&forum=9 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=11088&forum=9)"
Its not clear what you propose to do. We have a school with pending violations that the school is pushing to get resolved and the state is dragging its feet. The school has been cleared in their past cases.
The schools clearly need to be improved and monitored. They should contnue to be monitored and improved forever, in my opinion.
The links you provided were for a different school, not sure what the intent was, I can only speculate (maybe same owners)?
If there are laws on the books that are being ignored then we should start there, maybe."
Why do you call this place a "school"? It clearly is NOT a school. It's a RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTER where kids are warehoused, not educated.
-
What's your intent? Denial?
My intent is to discover what happened the day the boy died and what will be done to correct the cause in the future (once the cause is known).
There are those who want to point fingers prematurely, shoot the counselor, shut every school down etc.
Shutting schools down doesnt work, they just reopen someplace else.
Most schools have good intent, when it comes to the kids, but I believe without oversight and regulation the stock holders and/principles push for more and more profits each year and the kids needs may get overlooked in certain areas like training, hiring qualified people etc.
I truly believe if we identify the direct cause and work on correcting it we will do future kids a great service.
-
On 2005-12-31 10:32:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-31 09:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-30 22:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"There are some of us who want to make a difference and implement some changes based on results of the investigation.>>>>
there are ample laws.
laws that can't be/ aren't enforced.
what new 'magical' law will you advocate for that might end the death of children under the guise of 'therapy'?
seriously, how do you propose to force programs to operate ethically.
what do you propose that might force the state to do the job they are sanctioned with?
you got a facility with numerous violations around illegal restraints, a kid is dead due to restraint, two year old 'pending' violations, and the state hasn't pulled the kids they placed there and will probably continue to place there.
hell, they shut down Woodside Trails for 'multiple violations' of regs... NO deaths.
is the state playing favorites????
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... um=9#57566 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=5052&forum=9#57566)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?So ... =9&start=0 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=&mode=viewtopic&topic=6984&forum=9&start=0)
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 88&forum=9 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=11088&forum=9)"
Its not clear what you propose to do. We have a school with pending violations that the school is pushing to get resolved and the state is dragging its feet. The school has been cleared in their past cases.
The schools clearly need to be improved and monitored. They should contnue to be monitored and improved forever, in my opinion.
The links you provided were for a different school, not sure what the intent was, I can only speculate (maybe same owners)?
If there are laws on the books that are being ignored then we should start there, maybe."
Why do you call this place a "school"? It clearly is NOT a school. It's a RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTER where kids are warehoused, not educated."
That works --- remove the word ,School and insert RTC or Boarding School. It really applies to any institution which have kids or the elderly
-
On 2005-12-31 15:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What's your intent? Denial?
My intent is to discover what happened the day the boy died and what will be done to correct the cause in the future (once the cause is known).
There are those who want to point fingers prematurely, shoot the counselor, shut every school down etc.
Shutting schools down doesnt work, they just reopen someplace else.
Most schools have good intent, when it comes to the kids, but I believe without oversight and regulation the stock holders and/principles push for more and more profits each year and the kids needs may get overlooked in certain areas like training, hiring qualified people etc.
I truly believe if we identify the direct cause and work on correcting it we will do future kids a great service."
Once again, this place is NOT A SCHOOL. It is an RTC as indicated on their license.
Calling RTC's "schools" is part of the problem. Continuing to call it a school misrepresents its nature. These RTC's get a significant portion of their patients by falsely claiming to be "boarding schools" or "specialty schools" thereby hoodwinking parents into thinking that the place they sent their kid to is a "school."
By continuing to do so, even after being corrected several times and seeing their status on their DFPS license posted earlier, you perpetuate the problem. This is a common tactic of program supporters and makes your comments look even more suspect than they already do.
Calling Star Ranch a "school" is misleading, incorrect and specious. We don't need to wait for investigation results to tell this simple truth. What is your reason for insisting it is a school when it is clearly a psychiatric facility?
-
<<>>
Give it a rest. In your defense, perhaps you're new to this industry.
This any many other BM programs where kids have died were licensed with state oversight and were supposed to follow existing regulations.
While 'profit before people' (kids in this case) is common, this facility was required by law to ensure that its employees were properly trained and following procedures. If it's more than they can handle, then they should get out of the business.
>>>I truly believe if we identify the direct cause and work on correcting it we will do future kids a great service.<<<
The direct cause is known. Suffocation by restraint.
Work on correcting it?
If they can't train their employees to safely execute a restraint, how will they train them to care about the kids and practice de-escalation techniques. That is the solution- not replacing it with a different restraint.
You can't legislate genuine care and positive regard. Had this staff been following state regulations, the issue may never have escalated to the 'need' for restraint.
-
On 2005-12-31 16:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"<<>>
Give it a rest. In your defense, perhaps you're new to this industry.
This any many other BM programs where kids have died were licensed with state oversight and were supposed to follow existing regulations.
While 'profit before people' (kids in this case) is common, this facility was required by law to ensure that its employees were properly trained and following procedures. If it's more than they can handle, then they should get out of the business.
>>>I truly believe if we identify the direct cause and work on correcting it we will do future kids a great service.<<<
The direct cause is known. Suffocation by restraint.
Work on correcting it?
If they can't train their employees to safely execute a restraint, how will they train them to care about the kids and practice de-escalation techniques. That is the solution- not replacing it with a different restraint.
You can't legislate genuine care and positive regard. Had this staff been following state regulations, the issue may never have escalated to the 'need' for restraint.
"
Spot on. Nicely done.
-
Calling Star Ranch a "school" is misleading, incorrect and specious. We don't need to wait for investigation results to tell this simple truth. What is your reason for insisting it is a school when it is clearly a psychiatric facility?
Sorry I dont see the Damage done. Insert "RTC" where "School" is, it really applies to both, but that is trivial right now. It appears your intent here is to inform parents of the damage Star Ranch has done to kids by supplying past info, which is great.
I am more interested in applying change to make it safer for future children.
We don't need to wait for investigation results to tell this simple truth.
Very disturbing statement, (Smacks of 1950's KKK Mentality) shows you have closed your mind to learning any further details and the sign you are hold up to the parents will be soon outdated.
I would suggest, to further your cause, to apply present and future findings to you agenda, the parents will see right thru to your personal agenda eventually.
You need to be backed by facts or no one will listen
-
The direct cause is known. Suffocation by restraint.
Work on correcting it?
If they can't train their employees to safely execute a restraint, how will they train them to care about the kids and practice de-escalation techniques. That is the solution- not replacing it with a different restraint.
You can't legislate genuine care and positive regard. Had this staff been following state regulations, the issue may never have escalated to the 'need' for restraint.
If all this is true than the solution would seem to be "push to elliminate Restraints" and train them to care about the kids and practice de-escalation techniques maybe by state regulation , verifying training, state oversight in hiring etc.
But I think something could be done
-
On 2005-12-31 16:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Calling Star Ranch a "school" is misleading, incorrect and specious. We don't need to wait for investigation results to tell this simple truth. What is your reason for insisting it is a school when it is clearly a psychiatric facility?
Sorry I dont see the Damage done. Insert "RTC" where "School" is, it really applies to both, but that is trivial right now. It appears your intent here is to inform parents of the damage Star Ranch has done to kids by supplying past info, which is great.
I am more interested in applying change to make it safer for future children.
We don't need to wait for investigation results to tell this simple truth.
Very disturbing statement, (Smacks of 1950's KKK Mentality) shows you have closed your mind to learning any further details and the sign you are hold up to the parents will be soon outdated.
I would suggest, to further your cause, to apply present and future findings to you agenda, the parents will see right thru to your personal agenda eventually.
You need to be backed by facts or no one will listen"
WHAT? Are you kidding, dummy? I said we don't need an investigation to see the simple truth that Star Ranch IS NOT A SCHOOL. They are listed on their LICENSE as a RESIDENTIAL TREATMENT CENTER, you idiot. I'm KKK because I repeated what it says on THEIR OWN LICENSE?
Go back and read my post again, this time for comprehension instead of a stupid knee-jerk absurdity of a response.
Facts or no facts, it's crystal clear that you aren't listening to anybody but yourself. You, my ignorant friend, are looking dumber and dumber every time you post your twisted responses.
Now people who post PUBLICLY AVAILABLE BUSINESS INFORMATION and call it "the truth" are Kluckers? You take the cake.
-
We don't need to wait for investigation results to tell this simple truth
Okay I'll Bite, We are Talking about "Death due to Restraint at Star Ranch RTC" inwhich there is a pending investigation. Star Ranch has a few other pending against them which have gone unresolved for several years. There were people who made up their minds and didnt want to wait for an investigation........
....... then you jump in and tweek because I used the word school instead of RTC and accusations and state there is no need for an investigation. You really think we should take that as an investigation on whether or not it is a school or RTC? Thats smoke!!! It is what it is, there is nothing to investigate, like you said its on the web site. We can call it "Our Lady of the wicked agony academy" if you like, but calm down !!!!
You take a look at all the other statements made on this site and to get that excited over those two words makes me suspicious that you are a frigin Troll just getting us off subject.
-
If all this is true than the solution would seem to be "push to elliminate Restraints" and train them to care about the kids and practice de-escalation techniques maybe by state regulation , verifying training, state oversight in hiring etc. But I think something could be do<<<<
You're either an apologist attempting to divert others attention away from this, or genuinely ignorant.
I don't think you read the state regulations I posted.
State already discourages restraint except in EXTREME emergency, and requires that de-escalation should be used.
What's next???? There's no more 'something could be done's' to do.
BTW, who is the psych professional who approves the excessive use of restraint that appears to be happening at SR?
-
I understand what you're trying to say and in theory you may have a point, however, its difficult to trust "the system" when it comes to these places (can't really trust the system period but that's another discussion). These kids are already viewed as inherently flawed, devious, lying little shits so its very difficult to get anyone to even listen let alone take the allegations seriously. Parents, LE and gov't officials already have a predisposition with regards to these kids. These programs tell them that from day one. Add to that the $$$$ issue coming into play. Do some research into political contributions made by the owners and operators of these places. That's one more incentive to sweep things under the rug. Shit, in some towns in Utah RTCs, Behavior Mods, boot camps etc. are the major employers. It happens more often than you would imagine. Read this: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 150#160261 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12879&forum=44&start=150#160261)
That's just one example. There's more.
-
On 2005-12-31 16:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If all this is true than the solution would seem to be "push to elliminate Restraints" and train them to care about the kids and practice de-escalation techniques maybe by state regulation , verifying training, state oversight in hiring etc. But I think something could be do<<<<
You're either an apologist attempting to divert others attention away from this, or genuinely ignorant.
I don't think you read the state regulations I posted.
State already discourages restraint except in EXTREME emergency, and requires that de-escalation should be used.
What's next???? There's no more 'something could be done's' to do.
BTW, who is the psych professional who approves the excessive use of restraint that appears to be happening at SR?
"
???
-
On 2005-12-31 16:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I understand what you're trying to say and in theory you may have a point, however, its difficult to trust "the system" when it comes to these places (can't really trust the system period but that's another discussion). These kids are already viewed as inherently flawed, devious, lying little shits so its very difficult to get anyone to even listen let alone take the allegations seriously. Parents, LE and gov't officials already have a predisposition with regards to these kids. These programs tell them that from day one. Add to that the $$$$ issue coming into play. Do some research into political contributions made by the owners and operators of these places. That's one more incentive to sweep things under the rug. Shit, in some towns in Utah RTCs, Behavior Mods, boot camps etc. are the major employers. It happens more often than you would imagine. Read this: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 150#160261 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=12879&forum=44&start=150#160261)
That's just one example. There's more."
Well Thank you , I read your link and that is awlful. I would hope this isnt the norm and we can do something to change things. What is it that people are doing?
I suggested in another section that we try to change things and I got ripped apart. It seems like everyone is content on just being angry and yelling at parents who come here for help instead of trying to change things for future kids.
I firmly believe that some parents are going to look for advice on raising their kids, its only natural, well intended people look for advice on everything, its the uninformed who think they can go it alone. Especially if you dont have any support system or extended family to fall back on for advice you may see a need to seek advice professionally.
I have seen parents come on here for advice and receive: "You suck as parents for even considering getting help somewhere else, you should have been better parents"!!,, "Cant you read, its not a School its a RTC, you must be totally ignorant". "Let you daughter run away, the reason she wants to leave is because you stink as a parent"!!
Nobody seems to want to help others find a solution, just hatred and anger
-
On 2005-12-31 17:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
I suggested in another section that we try to change things and I got ripped apart. It seems like everyone is content on just being angry and yelling at parents who come here for help instead of trying to change things for future kids.
I firmly believe that some parents are going to look for advice on raising their kids, its only natural, well intended people look for advice on everything, its the uninformed who think they can go it alone. Especially if you dont have any support system or extended family to fall back on for advice you may see a need to seek advice professionally.
I have seen parents come on here for advice and receive: "You suck as parents for even considering getting help somewhere else, you should have been better parents"!!,, "Cant you read, its not a School its a RTC, you must be totally ignorant". "Let you daughter run away, the reason she wants to leave is because you stink as a parent"!!
Nobody seems to want to help others find a solution, just hatred and anger"
No, now that's not really true. I've been following that other thread. Yes, there have been some comments that like that, Sometimes anger and frustration get the better of people but there have also been some well thought out, well reasoned responses. I think most rational people can distinguish between them.
As to what to do, there are many schools of thought and no wrong answers. We all (survivors of these places) are different and deal with situations differently. If you don't like a particular form of activism or whatever you want to call it, fine, find your own niche. While I understand and share your frustration, its really not my place to tell anyone how to conduct themselves. I can make a suggestion, but if the the other person is dead set on doing it how they feel they need to then who am I to keep harping on them that they're wrong? I'll just do my own thing that I feel comfortable with.
Get out there! Do something...anything. Write congressmen, email trusted journalists with info that you have, start a message board, write a Letter to the Editor of your local paper....or Utah's. That is one strange state adn seem to have an inordinate amount of these schoools/RTCs/bootcamp/wilderness camp/emotional growth etc.
From the description of this forum "This is an uncensored, unmoderated forum where all viewpoints are both welcome and fair game for debate. It's a snap-shot of the Teen Help industry. Some days it's inspiring and heart-warming. Other day's it's pretty damned ugly. Enter at your own risk.
We've all been through a major mindfuck. Sometimes that comes out in the way that people respond around here but more often than not there is a valid point to what they're saying if you can get passed how they're saying it.
HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!! BE SAFE
::bigsmilebounce:: ::bigsmilebounce:: ::bigsmilebounce:: ::bwahaha2:: ::cheers:: ::cheers:: ::cheers:: ::cheers::
-
On 2005-12-31 17:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
I suggested in another section that we try to change things and I got ripped apart. It seems like everyone is content on just being angry and yelling at parents who come here for help instead of trying to change things for future kids.
I firmly believe that some parents are going to look for advice on raising their kids, its only natural, well intended people look for advice on everything, its the uninformed who think they can go it alone. Especially if you dont have any support system or extended family to fall back on for advice you may see a need to seek advice professionally.
I have seen parents come on here for advice and receive: "You suck as parents for even considering getting help somewhere else, you should have been better parents"!!,, "Cant you read, its not a School its a RTC, you must be totally ignorant". "Let you daughter run away, the reason she wants to leave is because you stink as a parent"!!
Nobody seems to want to help others find a solution, just hatred and anger"
Hehe... yeah we see this argument a lot from program trolls. Believe it or not, most of the posters here NO LONGER CARE if they offend parents or not. The 'solution' is to NOT SEND YOUR KID to the programs discussed here, that would be the simple solution to keeping your kid out of an abusive program, wouldn't ya say? Everything else is just gravy. So, NO, you cannot transfer responsibility to the posters here, that just doesn't fly. But we know program parents LOVE to transfer blame to everyone but themselves, so I'm sure we'll see many more posts such as yours.
-
I don't think they're a program troll, just new. Here is another reason why its difficult to trust the authorities. This story will be on Dateline NBC tonight.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10664038/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10664038/)
"A different kind of boot camp
In the Sonoran desert, suburban-soft Anthony experienced the particular joys of close order drill, calisthenics, and desert survival skills, always with a drill instructor by his side and a summer sun above.
Anthony and the others were treated like raw recruits? but not for anything like a modern army. Charles Long?s boot camp for wayward teens was not quite the same as others around the country. His was an imagined imitation of something right out of the 19th century ? the Buffalo soldiers.
Long?s idea at the beginning, a dozen years ago, was for men like him to celebrate or ?re-enact,? as he would say, the famed black cavalry of the old west. He even gave himself a rank and got everybody to call him ?colonel.?
And with their prancing horses, campaign hats, and cavalry uniforms, the Buffalo soldiers were a favorite attraction in local parades. They even performed as escorts for visiting dignitaries, like then-governor George Bush and retired general Colin Powell.
At one event in 1994, Powell asked Long to help troubled kids.
Long: When you get a general to ask me to do something like that, I took great pride in it.
To a former Marine like Long, General Powell?s suggestion felt more like an order. So Long expanded his Buffalo soldier program to include at-risk kids.
He wasn?t trained for such a thing, wasn?t a counselor or therapist, but that didn?t seem like an obstacle to Long, who had his own ideas about the value of psycho-therapy.
Long: So, you prescribe a child medication? Oh, it?s okay because it?s legal? He?s still taking a drug. So that?s more acceptable to you than if he?s taking cocaine, crack or smoking marijuana?
Long?s idea of therapy consisted of drill instructions and desert isolation.
Long: Not only do we have rattlesnakes out here, we have mountain lions out here. We have coyotes out here. And because of the problem of us not having a great amount of rainfall the last couple of years, we have bears out here. Going into the desert is an opportunity, in my opinion, to face your demons. Jesus went there. And you want to know why I go there? He went there.
That?s the other thing: Long is very clearly a sincere evangelical Christian who considers himself a ?soldier of the Lord.?
Morrison: What makes you a soldier of the Lord?
Long: In my opinion, I honestly believe, know, and can say, that by my faith in God, I?m here today.
So, Long built his boot camp not solely on military discipline but also on old testament principles.
Long: It?s called "not sparing the rod," is what it?s called.
Morrison: You beat them?
Long: No, sir. I do not beat children. No, sir. I have a paddle. Three strikes? And you?re subject to corporal punishment. But you don?t get corporal punishment by a paddle unless your parents have said, ?Oh yeah, go ahead,? and give them permission for that.
Morrison: Right, but you use a paddle?
Long: Yes, sir. And I?m the only one to do that.
Morrison: Sometimes are they chained together...
Long: We have extreme volatile situations at times, that one of the ways to help get a child to calm down is to restrain him.
Morrison: I?d love to know if there?s any body of evidence, anywhere, that says that the kind of program you?re running actually makes a positive difference in the lives of people.
Long: I have six young people in Iraq right now who literally started out in the Buffalo Soldiers as young people who were disrespectful. We have proved to the families who brought children to the Buffalo soldiers that going to the desert is a miracle worker.
One of Long?s most noted supporters was the local sheriff Joe Arpaio, a man who?d developed his own national reputation for tough love.
Joe Arpaio, local sheriff: I was impressed with his efforts to take care of kids, young kids, especially those that have problems.
In Sheriff Arpaio?s jails, inmates work in chain gangs are made to wear stripes and pink underwear, and some actually sleep in desert tents, much like Long?s Buffalo soldiers.
Arpaio: The kids seemed to really appreciate that program.
Arpaio and Long seemed a perfect match, the self-proclaimed ?toughest sheriff? in the land.
Arpaio would even attend Buffalo soldier graduation ceremonies. In appreciation, Long awarded the sheriff the ?Buffalo soldier humanitarian award.?
Of course there was one big difference between the two: Sheriff Arapio was dealing with convicted criminals, Charles Long with confused youngsters."
-
Child Protective services sends kids to Star Ranch, so they are really investigating themselves. My parents are foster parents for CPS.
-
I have not been online for a few days so I must say that it was nice to see so many posts added to this thread since I last checked.
Licensing handles the investigation. All RTC's are investigated by licensing. What most people don't realise is that most children in RTC's are placed by CPS. CPS and Licensing are both under the direction of TDFPS. That is the biggest concren that I have. There is no unbias investigation into Mikey's death. I live here in the Hill Country and am very aware of the law enforcement in this area. I do not believe that our DA will "really" try to get a true bill on this case. He hates a good fight. He really hates the media and will avoid it at all costs.
Is there anyone out there that lives in the Texas Hill Country and can contact me. Does anyone know any more about this investigation. Does anyone know the name of the "staffer" that did this. We all need to work together to ensure that the media does not let this case die down. How many more have to die before the law makers will listen and change the laws to protect them. I am thinking about holding a candle light vigil for Mikey the night before the Grand Jury meets. The next meeting in Kerr county on on the 9th. No body will tell me if this case is being presented. How do I find out. The district attorney's office will not talk. The sheriffs office will not tell me and the district clerks office claims they have no idea. So who the hell knows.
I am looking for help. Somebody out there knows the ins and outs of how something like this works. PLEASE HELP! post to this board and I will continue to check daily.
-
Ask a local reporter. If they can't put someone on it, talk to one and ask how he/she would go about finding this information out.
If there was an arrest, the police blotter *should be* public record. If you know what date the arrest was, or within a few days of it, you know what dates to check the blotter for.
Look at the descriptions to find the arrest you're looking for and from that you can try to get a copy of the police report. Again, a reporter can tell you what of this is public record in case the department doesn't want to cough up some info that they really have to cough up.
If there was an arrest, once you find out who, you can start looking at the grand jury dockets to find the name of the arrestee to find out if it's been sent to a grand jury or not.
Of course, you can't know if there have been additional arrests in the case other than right after the incident unless you can get someone to tell you--which apparently you can't.
The best way to get the info, of course, is to get a reporter to go talk to the family and find out what information the police have released to them.
What you guys really ought to do is start an official sounding newsrag like "Treatment Today" or "Teen Mental Health Reports" or something--you know, like the power companies make an official sounding "Citizens for the Environment" name for an interest group and buy ads in that name. Make it *not* sound like a survivor group, but just like a straight news rag.
Then put you guys that want to check this stuff out yourself on the roster of the webzine as "reporters"---"Hi, Mr. Officer, I'm a reporter from Teen Treatment Today, doing a story on the recent death of Joe Victim at Sleazebag RTC. Our readers are very interested in this case. We'd like to find out something about the state of the investigation. Is the investigation into Joe's death still open at this time? Was there an autopsy, and if so, has the coroner determined the cause of death? Have there been any arrests? Do you anticipate any? Have you identified any suspects or persons of interest?"
Geez, watch Greta and Geraldo and crib their interview questions. Practice sounding like a reporter, ask for a sit-down, bring a tape recorder and if they are't comfortable with you using it, have a pad and pen for backup. Have your questions written out in advance, but don't be afraid to use common sense to deviate from the format. If you get a sit-down interview with someone at the police department, dress like Geraldo or Greta.
Either get a reporter on it, or pump a reporter for as much information on how to find out as he'll give you. Offer to take him out and buy him lunch if he'll give you some tips and pointers.
Most people love to show off their professional expertise. If you call around to your local paper or news radio station(s), you can probably get *some* reporter to bite *at least* on the offer of a free lunch.
Julie
-
Side note of foster kids and caseworker visits.
Most States Can't Prove Foster Kid Visits
By KEVIN FREKING (Associated Press Writer)
From Associated Press
January 04, 2006 8:43 PM EST
WASHINGTON - Lacking proof from most of the states, federal officials are concerned that many foster children are not being visited regularly by case workers, according to a government report to be released Thursday.
Only 19 states plus the District of Columbia were able to produce computer-based reports detailing how often such visits occurred in fiscal 2003, according to the inspector general for the Department of Health and Human Services.
Seventeen of those states required at least monthly visits. Yet, five reported that less than half of their foster care children were visited that frequently. Another five states reported a visitation rate of 75 percent or less.
Most states said they lacked the resources to produce such a report, or they had not yet moved to a computer recordkeeping system. The federal government and state governments have spent $2.8 billion developing such systems since 1994.
"We're not surprised at what the inspector general found," said Wade Horn, HHS assistant secretary for children and families.
Horn said he shared concerns that states need to do a better job of tracking caseworker visits.
Child welfare experts say caseworker visits are among the most important tools states can use to protect foster children.
"The more frequently a child is visited in foster care, the better the outcome for that child," Horn said.
Nationally, about 500,000 children are in foster care, a number that has been declining in recent years, Horn said.
All states must comply with federal regulations to get federal funding for their foster care programs, but each state determines how services are provided. Forty-three states call for monthly visitation. The others set visitation standards ranging from weekly to quarterly.
The federal government can financially penalize those states that do not show improvement in key areas such as caseworker visits. So far, the Bush administration has resisted that approach.
"The goal of the (reviews) has not been to penalize states, but to work with them to improve the effectiveness of their child welfare systems," Horn said.
Horn said he was prepared to enact sanctions for those states that fail to improve.
"Our hope is that every state will show progress. They don't have to be perfect, but they have to show progress," Horn said.
Daniel Levinson, the HHS inspector general, recommended that the federal government promote the development of computer tracking systems. Such systems would improve states' abilities to ensure caseworkers visit foster children.
The federal government provides 75 percent of the funding for such automated systems, Horn said.
The IG's report noted that 44 states and the District of Columbia are in various stages of developing their computer systems, but six states have no such systems planned. The report did not name those states.
For the 31 states that could not produce a report, the IG's office repeated some reasons they were given.
"We don't have the manpower to generate reports," an unidentified official from New Mexico told the inspector general.
The IG's office found the following rates for monthly visitation in 2003:
Wyoming, 27 percent
West Virginia, 42 percent
Washington, D.C., 43 percent
Kentucky, 44 percent
New Hampshire, 49 percent
Nebraska, 50 percent
Tennessee, 53 percent
Arizona, 59 percent
Arkansas, 71 percent
Texas, 75 percent.
---
On the Net:
Administration for Children and Families: http://www.acf.hhs.gov (http://www.acf.hhs.gov)
HHS Office of Inspector General: http://oig.hhs.gov (http://oig.hhs.gov)
-
Thank you so much for your help. Unfortunately, I have been down that road. We have had media coverage in the San Antonio area. The Express News (newspaper) and all of the stations have covered the death. However they only covered it when the child was killed. It was a "hot topic" at the time. I have talked to the investigator on this case and she will not release any information. The case is under investigation and they will not release the "staffers" name. All that I have found out is that he has worked for the Star Ranch for the last 7 years. I have talked with the District Attorneys office and they will not tell me when this case is going to be presented to the grand jury. It is just not right that the name of the adult is not released. I know that he/she has not been arrested yet. I have gotten copies of the court records from the district clerks office and a copy of the autopsy report. Why is it that they are able to release the name of the child that is dead, but not the adult responsible. I do have the support of the media, and they are very interested, however, they have not been able to access a name either. Again, I appreciate your post, but I was wondering if you had any other thoughts. There has to be a way that this information is public. I am not familiar enough with the law to know. What I do know is that there is a dead child and the cause of death is clear. I will look forward to hearing from you. Is there a way that I could talk with you. I am really not a suspicious person, however, I am sure that one of the people posting to this thread is from the ranch. Again, thank you for your interest.
-
I've been away since Christmas so there are a lot of new posts. I am struck by a couple of things: how vehement some of the responses are, and how the most strongly worded responses are from Anonymous posters.
Some of these people keep missing an important point: that if this boy's parents had not abandoned him, he may never have been at Star Ranch. Their parental rights were stripped from them because of abuse and neglect. He was placed in foster care and could not stay becaue of his numerous emotional problems.
So the idea that everyone should shun treatment centers doesn't really address what should happen to children who have this type of special need.
I am furious that this boy was treated this way, but I also have experience with children with behavioural issues that act out and try to harm themselves. I also saw staffers at Star Ranch de-escalate that type of behaviour through talking, not requiring any type of restraint.
But my experience with Star Ranch was with the summer camp (1 week), not the RTC.
I've never been in a residential treatment center myself; it sounds like some of you have. That must have been hard.
But for some kids, it looks like it may be the only place left.
I am really tired of hearing "This place kills kids". ONE child died. I haven't seen or heard anything that indicates there is a child murderer on the rampage in Ingram.
-
On 2006-01-06 07:30:00, justamomintx wrote:
"I've been away since Christmas so there are a lot of new posts. I am struck by a couple of things: how vehement some of the responses are, and how the most strongly worded responses are from Anonymous posters.
Some of these people keep missing an important point: that if this boy's parents had not abandoned him, he may never have been at Star Ranch. Their parental rights were stripped from them because of abuse and neglect. He was placed in foster care and could not stay becaue of his numerous emotional problems.
So the idea that everyone should shun treatment centers doesn't really address what should happen to children who have this type of special need.
I am furious that this boy was treated this way, but I also have experience with children with behavioural issues that act out and try to harm themselves. I also saw staffers at Star Ranch de-escalate that type of behaviour through talking, not requiring any type of restraint.
But my experience with Star Ranch was with the summer camp (1 week), not the RTC.
I've never been in a residential treatment center myself; it sounds like some of you have. That must have been hard.
But for some kids, it looks like it may be the only place left.
I am really tired of hearing "This place kills kids". ONE child died. I haven't seen or heard anything that indicates there is a child murderer on the rampage in Ingram.
"
you keep missing the MOST IMPORTANT point. the staff at star ranch KILLED THIS KID for acting out.
don't try to compare a "summer camp" with an RTC. it's a shame that the summer camp staff are trained and the RTC staff isn't. end result: A DEAD KID. pretty high price to pay because the staff don't know how to do the job.
HOW MANY MORE WILL DIE AT THE HANDS OF UNTRAINED STAFF?
-
HOW MANY MORE WILL DIE AT THE HANDS OF UNTRAINED STAFF?
Hopefully none. If the counselor was untrained the place will have to answer questions and maybe things will start moving in the right direction and have people trained.
I think part of what Justamom was trying to say is there where alot of posts which were accusing the place of murder, abuse etc. based on the fact that a child died due to restraint, possibly by an untrained person. She witnessed something different at a summer camp. Typically the mentality in one part of the place carries over to other areas so it isnt too far fetched to think the place trains all their staff.
-
That is what happened for my son at the summer camp, run by the same organization. That's why I wrote in the first place; just to say that we had a positive experience.
I guess I just don't want to believe that there was a conspiracy to kill an abandoned, disturbed boy. I don't want to believe that this particular staff member "had it in" for this boy.
But I don't know; I wasn't there. And I guess anything is possible.
-
On 2006-01-06 10:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That is what happened for my son at the summer camp, run by the same organization. That's why I wrote in the first place; just to say that we had a positive experience.
I guess I just don't want to believe that there was a conspiracy to kill an abandoned, disturbed boy. I don't want to believe that this particular staff member "had it in" for this boy.
But I don't know; I wasn't there. And I guess anything is possible.
"
no, i don't believe there's any conspiracy either. what i do believe is that a person who had no business working with these kids (untrained) killed this poor child and somebody needs to answer for it.
having worked in the same type of RTC, i can say that for several years of employment, i never had to touch a child in any way to control the environment. restraint is unnecessary 99% of the time (i NEVER had to restrain a child) and if it becomes necessary, it can be dangerous if performed by untrained staff, ESPECIALLY the "basket restraint," which, in my state, is PROHIBITED BY LAW because it is a method that has a high probability of hurting or killing the child.
star ranch should have known this. they should have trained their staff to use SAFE restraint methods, if any were to be used at all. furthermore, the staff member has to be completely OBLIVIOUS to the nature of the situation if he failed to see that the child had STOPPED BREATHING. he also should have been certified to perform CPR, as required by law.
the bottom line is this: a kid is DEAD because an untrained/negligent staff member did not do his job properly, did not apply restraint properly and failed to perform CPR when he finally noticed the child was not breathing.
what does this amount to? NEGLIGENT HOMICIDE at worst INVOLUNTARY MANSLAUGHTER at best.
THE KID IS DEAD. HE AIN'T COMING BACK, and some of you people want to blame HIM for his own death. that is ABSURD and SHAMEFUL.
-
I do not think that someone conspired to kill Mikey. Actually, I don't think that anyone on this thread thinks that. I am not sure if any of you have read my earlier posts, but I want to let you all know that I have personal experience with The Star Ranch and their staff. My son was in the RTC program last year. When we heard on the news stations about Mikey Garcia's death, we had no intentions of him finding out. He is doing so well since we took him off of all of his meds that I was concerned about a set back. A little boy should never hear about something that horrible. Regardless, he was up late one night an they showed it on the late news and he found out. Since that time he has told us alot of unfortunate things that we were never ready to hear. However, we have tried to talk to the investigator handling this and she is just simply not interested. We have started other balls rolling and I will not let my son's voice go unheard. Star Ranch is infact a very bad place. One childs death is the same as 10. I know that not everyone will agree, however, that is my opinion and I stand firmly on it.
I also wanted to share something with all of you. They have not released the "staffers" name, But in a recent interview with KSAT 12 news in San Antonio, Rand Southard (co-owner) of the Ranch emphatically denied what my son was claiming and said that they do not practice this type of restraint and never did. HE LIED. I went through my son's records and they clearly state the type of restraints they do practice and the do infact list on his Master Treatment Plan a prone restraint, which is what my son experienced. Yes that is right, face down with their knee in his back. I just wished my son had told me back then that they were doing that. Mr. Southard also stated "this staff member was well trained, he/she has been in our employ for the last 7 years." So please don't assume that this person had no experience. They had 7 years of it. I also found on the front cover of the Master Treatment Plan a list of all of the names of the employees at the Star Ranch during my sons 3 months there. Anyone care to see a copy? I will be more than happy to share it with you, but I only want poeple that are willing to help. How do we know hwo has been there for 7 years. I think the media should expose their name just like they exposed Mikeys. The public needs to know. They keep saying that it is under investigation......when it is concluded they will present it to the grand jury. I would bet that they will never let us know when it is being presented. Any suggestions? Let me know and I am more than willing to give anyone this information if they are able to help.
-
the bottom line is this: a kid is DEAD because an untrained/negligent staff member did not do his job properly, did not apply restraint properly and failed to perform CPR when he finally noticed the child was not breathing.
But who is to blame? untrained and negligent are two different things.
If the counselor was not trained properly he cant be to blamed. The RTC or the people who trained him improperly are to blame.
If he was trained properly and just failed to do his job then he is at fault.
But as of now we just dont know.
-
On 2006-01-06 16:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"the bottom line is this: a kid is DEAD because an untrained/negligent staff member did not do his job properly, did not apply restraint properly and failed to perform CPR when he finally noticed the child was not breathing.
But who is to blame? untrained and negligent are two different things.
If the counselor was not trained properly he cant be to blamed. The RTC or the people who trained him improperly are to blame.
If he was trained properly and just failed to do his job then he is at fault.
But as of now we just dont know."
untrained staff, negligent facility.
or
trained negligent staff, negligent facility.
it ain't that deep, lady.
-
untrained staff, negligent facility.
or
trained negligent staff, negligent Staff Member.
it ain't that deep, lady.
I think this is what you meant.
-
no, i meant what i said. if the staff was trained and negligent, then the facility is negligent in the eys of the law for not providing proper oversight. they are ultimately responsible for the negligent actions of their employees.
the employee and the facility are JOINTLY AND SEVERALLY LIABLE.
-
***Some of these people keep missing an important point: that if this boy's parents had not abandoned him, he may never have been at Star Ranch. Their parental rights were stripped from them because of abuse and neglect. He was placed in foster care and could not stay becaue of his numerous emotional problems. ***
?Abandoned? and ?rights stripped from them? are not synonymous. The kids were taken by those who would like to think that they can provide better. His family?s obvious distress does not justify what happened to him at Star Ranch.
The details of what was happening in the home were sketchy, but it was well known by the authorities that the father was violent. Why was he never removed from the home and ordered to take anger management classes? Is that only available after someone has been sent to prison for murder?
Two kids in RTCs and one in foster home. What?s that, about $400+ per day? Plus $500-1000+ per month for Mikey?s drugs alone. That?s a hell of a lot of resource, that if put to good use might have kept this family together.
Instead, the state removes the kids, splits them up, and denies them the right to see their parents or each other. Inhumane and cruel. Instead of putting resource into the ?family?, they put it into over priced drugs and RTCs- which can NEVER take the place of family. I?ve seen numerous documentaries which show that things have to be horrendously bad before kids prefer to live away from their parents. What they would appreciate is someone helping their parents get their shit together.
I don?t know what the state?s argument is for this course of action vs something more humane, but it clearly does not work, is not in the kids best interest, and is not the best use of our tax dollars.
***So the idea that everyone should shun treatment centers doesn't really address what should happen to children who have this type of special need. ***
I?ve outlined how I think it should be handled, but short of that; give all the resource that?s funneled to drug companies, foster parents, and RTCs to the parents, or a fit relative or friend. Anyone other than a stranger, who has a vested interest in the kids and keeping them together. I don?t have the current rates, but recently the state paid foster parents 2-4 times more than welfare mothers. What kind of sense does that make? Particularly when foster kids in TX are 5 times more likely to be injured or killed in out-of-home placements?
***I also saw staffers at Star Ranch de-escalate that type of behaviour through talking, not requiring any type of restraint. ***
You had a one-week peek at the summer camp program. Did your son co-mingle with state placed kids? Did your kid have the same staff or fresh staff brought in for the summer? Did your son stay in one of the filthy dorms mentioned in the violations report? Or do private pay have better accomodations? There's a very good chance that you're comparing apples and oranges.
What did they say to the child during the de-escalation? Did you give Star Ranch permission to restrain your child if they deemed it necessary?
***I am really tired of hearing "This place kills kids". ONE child died.***
And some of us are r-e-a-l-l-y tired of hearing how staff had no choice but to squeeze the life out of an ?unruly? child.
I?m still waiting for a response to why the staff member didn't give Mikey CPR before EMS arrived? Could've saved his life. Any thought on that?
-
JOINTLY
Thank you , that was my point. The Staffer is responsible only if he was Trained and failed to use his training !!! The Corporation (what ever it happens to be) is always responsible for its employees actions , up to a point.
-
I?m still waiting for a response to why the staff member didn't give Mikey CPR before EMS arrived? Could've saved his life. Any thought on that?
I think we are all waiting for answers to many questions of what happened that day and it is impossible to judge anyone until that information comes forward.
-
I would be very interested in copies of your information. I would like to help.
-
On 2006-01-06 18:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"JOINTLY
Thank you , that was my point. The Staffer is responsible only if he was Trained and failed to use his training !!! The Corporation (what ever it happens to be) is always responsible for its employees actions , up to a point."
I completely disagree. I have had three years of Hapkido and two years of Taikwondo. Hapkido deals with a lot of the joint locks typically used to restrain people; law enforcement and facilities have cribbed a lot of the techniques they use from Hapkido.
When you lay hands on a child, or an adult patient who is mentally incompetent, you are responsible for knowing what the hell you are doing and not hurting that person.
You are especially responsible if you accept money for work where you know you may be expected to lay hands on children or mentally incompetent adults.
Martial arts studios do not hide in deep dark alleys. Proper training in how to physically control someone without hurting them is more than available.
If you accept such a job, you are effing responsible.
Any sane adult is absolutely responsible for what they do and the results when they lay hands on a child or a mentally incompetent adult.
Sometimes people get hurt or even killed in self-defense situations where the attacker is using lethal forc.
[Most common legal definition of lethal force: force that is right then immediately about to kill or seriously injure the person defending themselves (or defending someone else). It includes force strong enough to break bones, for example.]
I'm not talking about that.
I'm talking about the restraint of an hysterical or enraged person who is using less than lethal force.
If you use lethal force, and excessively forceful restraint *is* lethal force, against someone who isn't using lethal force against you, you are absolutely responsible for what you do to that other person.
"I wasn't properly trained" is no damned excuse.
Proper training is readily available from multiple private sources all over the place. Any judo master or multi-dan black belt, any hapkido master or multi-dan black belt, can teach you fairly easily how to avoid killing another human being, large or small, when you restrain them. Black belts in these arts are a dime a dozen in any decent sized city, and anyone who won't take a greyhound out for a week to get a short course of tips doesn't have any business working in a job where they might have to restrain someone.
The common excuse used is something along the lines that the people who take these jobs don't get paid much and are too stupid to know they are dangerous to the lives of their charges.
Ignorance of the risk doesn't protect stupid people who punch someone straight in the chest, or the wrong place on the head, in a bar fight and kill the other guy. Taking a job where you have to physically lay hands on people is just like getting in a bar fight---by making that choice, you assume the risk for the damage you do.
Not trained right is no damned excuse.
If you take such a job, it is your responsibility to find out about the risk and deal with them regardless of whether your employer is negligent or not.
The employer's negligence is no excuse for the employee's negligence.
If I take a job driving a semi and the company I drive for doesn't make sure I have a commercial driver's license or can drive a semi safely, and I run over a compact car on the interstate and kill the occupants, I'm going up for vehicular homicide, because it was *my responsibility* as part of taking up that activity to ensure I did so *safely*.
Stupidity is no excuse for killing somebody.
Julie
-
If I take a job driving a semi and the company I drive for doesn't make sure I have a commercial driver's license or can drive a semi safely, and I run over a compact car on the interstate and kill the occupants, I'm going up for vehicular homicide, because it was *my responsibility* as part of taking up that activity to ensure I did so *safely*.
Stupidity is no excuse for killing somebody.
Julie
Julie I have to totally disagree. If I take a job with Ford motor company putting wheels on cars and I say "I know what I am doing, I dont need training or a friend of mine taught me how to do this" And I dont put the wheels on properly and they fall off and people die. Who is responsible?
Can Ford say "Hell -- I thought he was trained, its not our fault!"
Do you think the people will sue the guy making $25 an hour with a life savings of $5,000? Should he have paid someone to train him, prior to taking the job? Should the families of the dead people blame Ford or the poor guy who is out of a job because they said he should have taken a course on tire installation prior to accepting the job?
Bottom line is "Ford would be responsible to ensure the guy was trained, either by testing or certificate or some other means" if someone dies its Fords fault.
Back to the restaint hold:
It is reasonable to believe that the staff person thought he was trained to handle the situation. Maybe he saw the hold performed on TV and thought that was good enough. Maybe his brother in-law showed him how to do it (improperly) but he believed him.
Maybe The School should have Tested him?
-
"
If I take a job driving a semi and the company I drive for doesn't make sure I have a commercial driver's license or can drive a semi safely, and I run over a compact car on the interstate and kill the occupants, I'm going up for vehicular homicide, because it was *my responsibility* as part of taking up that activity to ensure I did so *safely*.
Stupidity is no excuse for killing somebody.
Julie
I have to speak up here because this is something I know a lot about professionally. I have been involved with the transportation industry for over twenty years including involvement with risk management. The trucking company is required to make sure its drivers not only have valid licenses, but valid insurance as well. And, the trucking company can (and usually is) named as a codefendent in any case where someone sues the driver for harm or damages.
Who gets sued is usually more a function of who has the deep pockets than it is one of who has the first line fault. One company I worked for was fined 500,000 dollars because an employee, in violation of company policy and acting on his own, brok the law. He received his own sentence, as well, but the company was held responsible for the employee's actions.
[ This Message was edited by: AtomicAnt on 2006-01-08 21:53 ]
-
Perhaps this was seizure related - the constant head banging could have been seizure related rather than behavior related. Perhaps he was having seizures. I remember a child who always wore a helmet because she would bang her head because she had seizures all of the time as a result of being physically abused as a baby. Since this child probably was abused by his parents a seizure disorder should have been considered rather than a behavior problem.
Who would believe that a democratic government would pursue for eight decades a failed policy that produced tens of millions of victims and trillions of dollars of illicit profits for drug dealers, cost taxpayers hundreds of billions of dollars, increased crime and destroyed inner cities, fostered widespread corruption and violations of human rights - and all with no success in achieving the stated and unattainable objective of a drug free America?
--Milton Friedman, winner of 1976 Nobel Memorial Prize for economic science
-
I do not dispute that the facility is responsible, financially definitely, criminally perhaps, for the behavior of their employees.
My point is that the employee is *also* responsible.
Putting a tire on a car is qualitatively different from laying forcible hands on another human being, or becoming a truck driver, or a train conductor.
Joint and several liability. They have joint and several liability and they deserve (IMO) to have joint and several liability.
Julie
-
On 2006-01-08 07:53:00, justamomintx wrote:
"I would be very interested in copies of your information. I would like to help.
"
justamomintx, thank you for your interest. I really appreciate it. Do you live near the Hill Country and how can you help? I remember you said that your son was there in a summer camp. Not sure if you would have the same paperwork that we had but my son was there in the RTC for three months. Did you have any papterwork on restraints and the techniques they uses? I am really interest in your input on the information that you got.
-
On 2006-01-09 12:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I do not dispute that the facility is responsible, financially definitely, criminally perhaps, for the behavior of their employees.
My point is that the employee is *also* responsible.
Putting a tire on a car is qualitatively different from laying forcible hands on another human being, or becoming a truck driver, or a train conductor.
Joint and several liability. They have joint and several liability and they deserve (IMO) to have joint and several liability.
Julie"
I think we can agree here. everyone needs to be accountable for their actions and what their intent was.
If the couselor was trying to save this boy from hurting himself or had planned to kill him, this needs to be determined.
If the counselor was trying to kill this boy (premeditated), the program will probably not be held responsible, there is nothing they could have done unless he had a history of violence etc. that the school knew about and ignored.
If it is a training issue and the counselor was trying to save the boys life then the program will probably be held responsible.
It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
-
This is very sad about this little boy. However, I had a relative child at the ranch and he was restrain by the same individual and his airway cut off. The person that was doing the restraint was a young house parent stating that the child was "faking". Nothing was done. And yes the child was also a head banger! This house parent is large in size as well.... I would not recommend an RTC to any child nor would I recommend CPS. CPS knew of this situation and did nothing....What a shame these children have to go through because of lack of training.....
-
There is a difference between house parent and counselor.....Have you ever been to Star Ranch and noticed how young these house parents are? I have! Overall it is a sad situation.
-
Star Ranch should not be the only ones responsible here. Think of the CPS Caseworkers who place children there knowing that this place has problems. Severe Problems. I have said many times about situations that are going on to a CPS caseworker and her reply is that I would not be satisified no matter where I place this child. However the problems that I addressed to the caseworker was inappropriate clothing that this child was wearing. A therapist outside of Star Ranch indicated that this was not a good sign. The smell of order from the bathroom, you could smell from the minute you open the cabin door. No wonder the child did not want to shower! My child was placed there and I fought tooth and nail to get the child back into my custody by hiring a lawyer. CPS sucks big time! Why do the taxpayers have to pay for such service....Rick Perry needs to do more!
-
I take it that you live in the Hill Country as well.... We were there also..... When was your child there? CPS actually thinks Star Ranch is a wonderful place... so does Hill Country CASA. As for Rick Perry.... Have you read the Comptrollers Report called the The Forgotten Child? It is a wonderful report and it totally exploits CPS and Little Ricky. Texas does a very poor job with the children in foster care.
-
I saw a news clip that had Rand Southard on stating that the "staff member" had worked there for 7 years and was well trained. That would make him at least 25. Most of the employees at Star Ranch are going to school at Schriner. I would love to know the name of the person that did this. Anyone know when this is going to the grand jury? I just wonder if it will be presented by Bruce Curry. Anyone know the CPS Case workers that were in the last two hearing they had for Mikey? I would love to have more information....great news story. We would love to keep this in the media and keep it alive.... we just need leads.........annonymous is great, we understand.... just get something posted out here and I will continue to check this site and look into any leads you throw out. Thank you
-
Sorry, this post lost
No charges in Garcia death
By Gerard MacCrossan
The Daily Times
Published February 18, 2006
A Star Ranch employee won?t face criminal charges in connection with the December death of 12-year-old Christening ?Mikie? Garcia.
Kerr County Sheriff Rusty Hierholzer said Friday afternoon that the 216th Judicial District Grand Jury no-billed the 28-year-old man, who restrained Garcia in a ?basket hold? before the boy lost consciousness and later died. The counselor no longer works at Star Ranch, a spokesman said.
In Garcia?s autopsy, Travis County Medical Examiner Roberto Boyardo ruled the 12-year-old?s death was cause by suffocation as a result of physical restraint. Garcia had been a resident at Star Ranch since August, where he was placed by the Texas Department of Protective and Regulatory Services.
The 12-year-old had been a ward of the state since January 2000 when he and three siblings were removed from their Kerrville family home. Parental rights were severed by the courts in 2004.
A Star Ranch spokesman said Friday that the ranch?s leadership is grateful for the way in which Kerr County Sheriff?s Department conducted the investigation and for the decision reached by the grand jury.
[ :tup: Don't ya know it!]
?We are grateful for the prayers,? the spokesman said. ?A lot of people have been very concerned for Star Ranch.?
[ This Message was edited by: Deborah on 2006-02-20 06:17 ]
-
:???: This makes me sick. I know Cedrick Humphrey. He was a Residential Coordinator at the Ranch. This is truely a sickening story. I can't believe it. Whats worse is that there is nothing that anyone can do. I am going to get a copy of the investigation and I will report back with what it says. Keep checking this site for information. I am truely concerned about how something like this could happen and they just let him and the Ranch walk away with no charges.
-
Having read the postings since Mikie's death and knowing the Travis Co. Medical Examiners Office I think people in Kerr Co. should know the "Truth".
Mikie's body arrived at the Travis Co. ME's office at 7:45 a.m., the autopsy was began at 9:10 a.m. and his body left the morgue at 10:45 a.m.
The Chief ME Bayardo performed the autopsy, had the autopsy report (3 pages) typed, signed, mail and billed by 5:00 p.m. the same day. All this was done before the Toxicology Samples were even delivered for testing.
Now if this were not enough, Bayardo signed and delivered to JP Ragsdale two different cause of death findings both signed and dated 12-5-05. One said Mikie died of "Cardiac Arrythmia" following physical restrain, the second said Mikie died of "Suffocation during physical restrain. Neither of these death findings is an amendment to the other. Both are signed as a final finding.
JP Ragsdale chose only to release the suffocation findings to the press, but this is not to say your local newspapers were unaware of this fact. I emailed both papers the autopsy report and related documents prior to the end of December 05.
In the suffocation finding JP Ragsdale released to the press, the conclusion is contradicted by other findings in the autopsy report. In suffocation the brain is injured by lack of oxygen. If Mikie had a pulse and did not officially died until 2 hours later, then he should have had swelling of the brain. The autopsy report does not note any.
When the Toxicology Report came back two weeks after the autopsy reports final finding it showed Mikie was on two different anti-depressants and a drug prescribed for schizophrenia, which I am unaware he was ever diagnosised with. The levels of the schizoprenia drug in Mikie's system is described as "High Therapeutic Levels" in the Toxicology Report. This drug (Quetiapine) has numerous serious side effects including Cardiac Arrythmia.
In the Investigators Report it notes medical staff at Sid Pederson said it "Felt as if the decedents throat was flat". This could not be the case if Mikie was restrained in a "basket hold" as reported by staff at the Star Ranch.
The above are just some of the facts that have been with held from the public about what really happened to Mikie. I suggest the readers of the local papers demand the truth be published so they can make an informed decision on who they want to vote for in the comming elections.
Remember, You need the truth to correct a problem.
-
On MAY 12, CPS removed all of their children from Star due to a near drowning. The contract has been canceled from what I heard.
-
http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?e ... 11df8e4bdb (http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?ewcd=35db1311df8e4bdb)
Boy nearly drowns in local creek
By Gerard MacCrossan
The Daily Times
Published May 9, 2006
A 12-year-old San Antonio boy was in critical condition Monday after being swept away Saturday in Johnson Creek. The boy was in a group of four Star Ranch residents on a bike ride with a houseparent when the accident occurred, said spokesman Dave Vinyard.
Sheriff Rusty Hierholzer said Monday that the boy, who has not been named, was wading in the creek. Star Ranch employee Lisa Marie Mariana went into the creek after him as he was swept away by water moving downstream toward the Bluff Trail Road low- water crossing.
The current also carried Mariana downstream against the bridge, where she was pulled out by Donald Ehlers, who lives upstream from the property.
Ehlers said the boys were playing and riding their bikes through a shallow-water crossing for about 20 minutes before the accident occurred.
?It was a two-inch rain, and the water came up after the rain,? he said. ?I don?t know why they let those kids down there.?
According to Ehlers, the creek flows through culverts under the low-water crossing. He said he heard the kids screaming and ran out of the house toward them, while dialing 911 on a portable phone.
He pulled Mariana out of the culvert where she was stuck. He said she was very disoriented. The boy was found about 600 yards downstream, Ehlers said.
Hierholzer said the boy was in the water for more than 10 minutes before rescuers pulled him out. He was taken first to Sid Peterson Memorial Hospital, then was transported to Methodist Children?s Hospital in San Antonio.
Vinyard said he doesn?t believe there was any misconduct by the houseparent.
?I think it was purely an accident,? he said.
Hierholzer urged area residents to take particular care around rivers and creeks in the area.
?The recent rains have made the rivers and creeks in the area very dangerous places to swim or wade, especially near bridges or other places where undercurrents exist,? he said. ?While they give a calm appearance, there can be very dangerous undercurrents, and we are urging everyone to use extreme caution if they intend to spend time in natural bodies of water.?
The incident is being investigated by the sheriff?s office in conjunction with Texas Parks and Wildlife Department.
The incident is the latest in a series of difficult situations faced by Star Ranch, which provides residential treatment for learning disabled and abused boys. In December, a 12-year-old died after being placed in a restraining hold by an employee. A grand jury cleared the employee of criminal wrongdoing.
Another boy required hospital treatment recently after being stabbed by another resident. The injured boy?s family did not press charges, law enforcement officials said.
http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?e ... bdc408be42 (http://web.dailytimes.com/story.lasso?ewcd=4a47dabdc408be42)
State pulls 19 from Star Ranch
By Gerard MacCrossan
The Daily Times
Published May 13, 2006
Star Ranch had only three children left in care Friday evening following the state?s decision to cancel its contract with the West Kerr residential treatment facility.
Star Ranch spokesman Dave Vinyard said 19 children, placed by Texas Department of Family and Protective Services, were taken away Friday morning.
In a letter to Executive Director Rand Southard dated Friday, DFPS cited the death of Christening Garcia last December when he was restrained by a staff member and the near drowning last Saturday of another boy as cause for canceling the contract. The youth involved in the drowning incident, who has not been identified, remains in critical condition at Methodist Children?s Hospital in San Antonio, Vinyard said.
?It?s a very traumatic day for Star Ranch,? Vinyard said. ?Emotionally, it?s a rough place. Those boys didn?t want to leave. Some had been there for years. It was their home and family.?
Star Ranch was founded in 1989 as a summer camp by Rand and Colleen Southard to help children with emotional challenges and learning disabilities. The facility grew to incorporate a year-round residential treatment center, child placement agency and charter school.
?The decision is based on the frequency of serious incidents occurring at Star Ranch RTC and the failure of Star Ranch to maintain the safety of the DFPS children in care,? the letter stated.
DFPS spokesman Patrick Crimmins said Friday that Star Ranch had been under increased scrutiny by the state agency following Garcia?s death.
?We haven?t placed any new children there since the death,? he said. ?We did step up monitoring and were watching them closely and keeping in frequent contact with them.?
But it was the accident last week that triggered the decision to end the state contract.
I think it was the incident that convinced us there seemed to be a pattern of inadequate supervision,? Crimmins said. New placements had been found for all 19 boys by late Friday, he added.
Southard met with DFPS officials Friday when they came to remove the boys.
?Of course DFPS has the right to do this,? Southard said in a written statement. ?We disagree with the decision, and the agency acknowledges that these incidents are unrelated. We just wish we had more opportunity to prepare the boys for another traumatic incident in their lives.?
Vinyard said Star Ranch staff members remain committed to the work in which they are engaged. Rand Southard and the management staff have plans to implement residential home and school facilities for privately placed boys. Those plans are on-going, he said.
According to Crimmins, Star Ranch?s state license to operate a residential treatment center remains in place, but it still is under investigation by the licensing authority. The summer camp is regulated separately by the Texas Department of State Health Services, he said.
Gerard MacCrossan may be reached at gerard.maccrossan(at)dailytimes.com.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/state/14570828.htm (http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/state/14570828.htm)
Earlier this month, a 12-year-old Star Ranch resident almost drowned during a bicycle trip along the Guadalupe River. The boy, who wasn't identified, remains hospitalized.
A grand jury found no criminal conduct in Mikie's death and the state placed the facility on probation.
State officials say a follow-up investigation found the ranch didn't comply with rules regarding use of restraints that impair breathing. Records also show the ranch wasn't meeting requirements on training and supervision for staff, said Patrick Crimmins, Family and Protective Services spokesman.
Although the state relocated 19 boys from the ranch, the facility still has three private clients, said Star Ranch spokesman Dave Vineyard.
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/ ... d803f.html (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA051306.06B.star_ranch.34d803f.html)
Ranch officials say he was placed in "a basket hold" ? held from behind by his hands with his arms crossing his chest ? to stop him from banging his head on the ground.
A grand jury heard evidence in February and found no criminal conduct, officials said.
Crimmins provided records that indicate the agency's follow-up investigation found the ranch was out of compliance with state rules on adherence to written intervention policies, on maintaining adequate staff supervision and training and on using restraints that impair breathing, among others.
http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4899569&nav=1TjD (http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=4899569&nav=1TjD)
Ranch officials say the boy was in a basket hold to stop him from banging his head on the ground. They called the death a "terrible accident."
-
What would anyone like to know? I was a high up at Star Ranch and with Star Programs. I know most involved and have first hand knowledge of The Southards. I have not worked for them in 9 years but still know them personally. Most of what I have read on these postings is false. Most of you truly do not know what you are talking about when you speak to the character of the founders of Star Ranch. I know it is up setting to hear of a child being killed due to a restraint or at the hands of someone paid to care for the child. Without a doubt it is a tragedy but you speak as though he did it with the intent to kill him. I do understand your feelings as I have also seen the stories on Dateline and other news shows about children being killed in RTC's. This one is just different for me because I know the heart and soul behind the Southards. You won?t find a couple more loving and caring, without a doubt. Most of you have never and will never fully comprehend the extent of abuse these children have been subjected to at the hands of their own parents or family members. Most of the children at Star Ranch will never function normally in society as a result of the atrocious abuse they endured. In many circumstances CPS had investigated the child?s home numerous times and continued to leave the child in the home to endure more abuse. I have read a file where the State of Texas investigated 17 times from the time the child was a young infant and did not remove him until he was 7. Now he is a destroyed child, never to function in society. Hiring staff to adequately care for these children is a challenge. But I knew the staffer involved in the restraint and he was a great employee. Not an aggressive person at all, not a monster. The State admittedly pays the RTC only 80% of what it financially takes to care for that child, so the RTC is left to seek donations for the remainder or find people to work for less money. Are you willing to work with children who are very aggressive, act out on a by minute basis, get spit on, have your personal items destroyed, get cursed out for low wages??? I think all who bash the RTC should go get a job at one and see how cut and dry you think it will be then.
-
Your prediction for ?these kids? is dismal- ?will never function normally in society as a result of the atrocious abuse they endured.?
When you hold that expectation, how can you possibly ?help?? How could the kids possibly progress?
Is that justification for more abuse?
So, what IS Star Ranch? A holding facility until they screw up bad enough to go to CYA?
If you can?t take the heat, get out of the kitchen. If the state won?t pay to have these kids cared for ?well?, it?s not in the kids best interest for Star to decrease quality and hire people who are willing to work for little pay. 80%.... 50%.... of cost, what?s that got to do with what these kids need- which is more than warm bodies. And if the money's not there to do it right, find another line of work.
Ultimately, Star is responsible for training their employees. I will never be convinced that an adult can?t ?hold? a child until they have regained composure, without killing them. Even if this young man (most of their employees appeared to be 20something males) had not received adequate training, one would think that this would be common sense. And, perhaps these young males with excess testosterone, lack much common sense. Is it such a good idea to put them in charge of severely distressed kids? What in their lives has prepared them for such a daunting task? Three days...Two weeks, of program 'training'.
With kids 5 times more likely to be killed or injured in out-of-home placements, I?d prefer to see my tax dollars going to assist families who often abuse due to dire financial circumstances,
and/or to parent training. At least in Tx, and in spite of the ?attrocious abuse?, kids seem to have a better chance of surviving childhood at home.
You interested in posting what you believe to be false?.
-
I live in the Hill Country and also know the Southards.... I personally do not agree with you. There is no "good" RTC and anyone that supports them is, in my opinion, wrong. I have been to the Star Ranch and I left with horrible feelings. No child should be in RTC, even the ones that are difficult. I hope our State Government opens their eyes to the cruilty and abuse that they are placing these children in. I would rather see all RTC's shut down that see another child die in the embrace of "Christian Love", because as you know.... that is what they call it....
-
Star Ranch ordered closed following the death of another child- Michael Ortega
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... &forum=9&0 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=15959&forum=9&0)
-
mad mom you think your child is telling you the truth but you really have no idea how did you child end up in this RTC? that would obviously be your fault for not taking care of him or neglecting him i just think its crazy that you could show so much interest in who was responsible for the death? were you there? did you witness anything? let the court system work itself out and you can just sit back and watch you really have no imput on what happened or what took place! you really should shut your mouth take a couple advil for the hangout that you probably have from a drinking problem and go to hell!!
-
My current science teacher used to work there.
-
It is good to see folks passionate about child safety.
-
I have yet to see a program dealing with severe populations that can be %100 restraint free. It has been posted that they exist. I would like to see the information on the program and the population they serve.
-
:lol:
What about the programs that don't want to be restraint free? Wait.. wtf do I care?
Good bad.. makes no different. I'm the motherfucker with the flame thrower and I say burn em all down.
-
Goatflavor, what behaviors at the Austin School for the Deaf would cause students to require restraints?
Would you mind naming the RTCs that you worked for in Texas?
You have worked in this industry since you were age 18? Was this type of employment how you payed your way through college and Graduate Studies?
-
you know those deaf kids.. fucking out of control little monsters.. they be signing like maniacs.. coming right at you with an extended middle finger.
-
Where is there an example of kids that hurt themselves and others getting their needs met without ever using restraint? The second you train people to do it there will always be danger.
I don't get the relevance of how i payed for my education.
There are deaf children with behavior disorders the same way there are children with behavior disorders in other places.
-
Schools that use restraint often abuse it, I suspect that it's no different in your case Goat. You won't admit it until a kid dies, state won't care until a kid dies. Look at the latest restraint related death of Isaiah Simmons at Bowling Brook (http://http://isaccorp.org/deaths.asp) or check out the 23 deaths in 11 months thread. It's pathetic that some folks try to past restraint off as a necessary evil or even a benevolent service. When a child dies these folks(are you one) don't even apologise they just cover their asses like cowards
-
I suspect much myself. It does not make it relevant. I have been around folks who have spent decades doing research, training, and being trained on how to descalate any potential situation. It may only be 5% of the time that anything physical happens in their presence, but it is still dangerous. Any time you are talking about holding someone that does not want to be held it is dangerous. Any time you are talking about a group of kids that will spit, hit, punch, or kick it is dangerous. So what do you do? You don"t serve these kids needs?
-
Show me a group serving real needs without ever having to restrain. I am all for it. Show it to me. I have looked. I want it as much as anybody can.
-
Ok, so they *need restraint... You're just providing a noble service, right? If they happen to die or suffer mental/emotional damage that's just the price of doing business, collateral damage.. If a person happens to die would you accept responsibility and lock yourself in the clank?
Don't try to color your "service recipients" as out of control head cases that can only be kept safe if restrained. I've seen every kind of abuser justify their actions by using this tactic, disgusting. Perhaps if you were to treat these people who *need restraint like human beings they wouldn't be so angry and combative. The only danger around these kids are people, with your think, who only wish to control them and not understand them. Your path is not one with the best interest for the child in mind, your path is one of least resistance... The easiest and most convenient
-
It's true, restraint is needed on a rare occasion to protect someone from hurting themselves or others.
The problem with restraint in the industry is that it is used too frequently. It's not always used for safety, but for punishment and convenience. Also used to establish authority. Kids are 'baited'. Illegal restraints are used. De-escalation is not even attempted. Poorly trained, sadistic, and/or young adults performing the restraints. They often have 3 or 4 adults on a small child. The restraint is held too long. Staff ignore the child when they say they can't breath, you know, "faking". Some programs lie about their use of restraint.
Restraints can be accomplished without blocking the airway and killing a kid. How is it an adult (or several usually) can't restrain a child safely, when it becomes absolutely necessary?
Here's a real simply option
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 650#237650 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=237650#237650)
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=120211#120211 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=120211#120211)
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=119744#119744 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=119744#119744)
InterMountain was supposed to go restraint/seclusion free. Might check and see how it's going.
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.ph ... 294#165294 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=165294#165294)
Google around. I know there are others.
Contact APRAIS
http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=53648#53648 (http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=53648#53648)
-
Thank you for attempting to answer my question instead of blindly attacking the character of someone you know nothing about.
I have seen the good, bad, and ugly
I have seen it misused and misguided
I have also seen situations where children's safety was on the line
and it was needed
the bottom line is support
child care in texas is grossly under supported
-
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent ... 052b6.html (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/081708dnmetdrugdoctors.45052b6.html)
Some Texas foster kids' doctors have ties to drug firms
11:20 AM CDT on Sunday, August 17, 2008
By EMILY RAMSHAW / The Dallas Morning News
http://www.gwenolsen.com (http://www.gwenolsen.com). "I saw firsthand several circumstances where my minimization of side effects or misinforming a physician had actually resulted in the patient being damaged and/or killed."
Ms. Olsen, who could not be reached for comment, came forward after her 20-year-old niece who had been taking Paxil committed suicide, according to published reports - first attempting to hang herself from a ceiling fan, then setting herself on fire.
How it works
All children entering Texas' foster care system get a routine health screening, and any who show symptoms of mental illness receive psychiatric evaluations. Until this year, the doctors who performed those exams were chosen by individual foster parents, caseworkers or the directors of residential treatment providers - the only stipulation being that they accepted patients on Medicaid.
Child-welfare watchdogs say these doctors, many of whom were in private practice or affiliated with private mental hospitals, operated for years with little oversight. Short on time and swamped with patients, some rarely spent more than a few minutes with their foster patients, they said, and relied on drugs instead of more time-consuming behavioral therapy.
Often, children missed doctors' appointments and doses of medicine - the result of poor record-keeping as they were shuttled between foster families and facilities.
In April, the state implemented a new health care system for foster children, one that makes appointments and selects doctors for them using a standardized list. Under the new program, any children with diagnoses other than minor depression or attention deficit hyperactivity disorder must be seen by a child psychiatrist. The system also keeps track of all the children's medical records, creating a "continuity of care."
Despite the heightened regulations, however, many of the doctors on the list are the same as were seeing many foster children before.
Texas health officials acknowledge past problems with foster children being overmedicated. A scathing 2004 report by the state comptroller found hundreds of foster kids as young as 3 were being given psychiatric drugs; one older child had 14 prescriptions for 11 different medications, at a monthly cost of more than $1,000.
But state health officials say that since 2005, they've made significant strides, reducing the share of kids taking psychiatric medicine from 38 percent to 32 percent. They've also whittled the number of 3-year-olds on mind-altering drugs by more than 25 percent and reduced the number of juveniles on five or more drugs by 20 percent, according to state data.
Prescriptions still common
Experts say the raw numbers are still high. In fiscal year 2007, nearly 15,000 of the 40,000 Texas children in state custody were prescribed at least one behavioral drug, costing the state $37.9 million.
It's hard to tell how this compares with the broader population; there are few national studies documenting the number of children on psychiatric drugs. In a 2006 analysis of more than 2 million patients served by Medco Health Solutions, a pharmacy benefit manager, 4.3 percent of children under 19 were on an ADHD drug, and 2.4 percent were on an antidepressant. Less than 1 percent were taking antipsychotic drugs, which are considered the most powerful.
Of the top five drugs most often prescribed to Texas foster children in 2007, two psychotropic drugs - Risperdal and Seroquel - were not approved for use in juveniles. Risperdal, an antipsychotic, has since been approved.
Many adult drugs are commonly prescribed to juveniles without federal approval, and not just foster kids. But some that have been proved perfectly safe in adults have had dangerous effects on children, including hallucinations and suicidal tendencies that have led to so-called black box warnings on drug labels.
And even drugs approved for use in children, while effective in treating mental illness, can have serious side effects, including twitching and tremors, muscle stiffness, severe exhaustion and excessive weight gain. Some studies have found that placebos are as effective as certain psychiatric drugs at treating juvenile depression, raising questions about the usefulness of the drugs in the first place.
Despite doctors' relationships with drug companies, there's no evidence that clinical trials have ever been run on foster children in Texas. The most prominent case of experimentation on foster children occurred in New York City in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when the city's child welfare administration enrolled hundreds of kids in AIDS drug trials.
The trials, which proved highly successful and dramatically reduced pediatric AIDS deaths, still sparked outrage years later over allegations that the children were enrolled without proper consent.
"It makes me wonder what real safeguards there are here to protect foster children in Texas from being involved in clinical trials," Jack Downey, president and CEO of the Children's Shelter of San Antonio, said of the Texas doctors' drug company relationships. "Whether any wrong is being done or not, there's certainly the perception" that doctors are benefiting from the foster care prescriptions.
Ties to companies
The News' review of the top-prescribing psychiatrists and clinics turned up many with financial relationships with pharmaceutical companies. Among these connections:
.An El Paso psychiatrist who prescribed psychiatric drugs to nearly 300 foster kids between 2002 and 2005 won nearly $150,000 in research funding from Pfizer and Eli Lilly, according to the Web site of the university he is affiliated with. He was also a guest lecturer for an AstraZeneca-sponsored conference at a California beach resort, according to the conference's brochure. He did not return repeated phone calls to his office.
.A Houston psychiatrist who prescribed psychiatric drugs to 490 foster children since 2002 has helped run ADHD, depression and schizophrenia clinical trials. His research facility has received funding from Eli Lilly, Glaxo SmithKline and Janssen, according to the facility's Web site. He did not return phone calls, and his assistant said he no longer works with foster children.
.A Houston doctor has given talks at Eli Lilly-funded events, held teleconferences for Eli Lilly sales representatives, and has pitched one of the company's drugs in speeches, according to her practice Web site. She has prescribed drugs to nearly 150 foster children. She did not return phone calls seeking comment.
Psychiatrists who work with foster children and for drug companies say one doesn't influence the other. Dr. Giancarlo Ferruzzi, a San Antonio psychiatrist who treats foster children and has consulted for at least five pharmaceutical firms, said professional relationships with drug companies have no effect on his prescribing patterns. And, he said, he frequently relies on drugs from companies he's never worked for; anything else "would be a dereliction of duty."
As a psychiatrist who treats children in foster care and also conducts clinical trials for new drugs, Dr. Carlos Guerra of Houston works with lots of pharmaceutical companies.
"But I don't sit there and think, 'Hey, a Concerta rep came in today,' " he said. "There is more data out for the newer drugs, which makes doctors more likely to use them. That's why it appears there's something unethical going on with the drug companies when there's not."
Fighting for her son
Mary Kitchens was in the next room when her autistic 8-year-old dropped a lighted candle onto her bed and was unable to communicate what he'd done. After the house burned and Ms. Kitchens depleted her other children's college funds to put Evan in a private psychiatric hospital, the state took custody of her son, telling Ms. Kitchens the second-grader was a danger to his family.
The piles of leftover drugs in Ms. Kitchens' carefully appointed Bandera home tell the rest of the story. Seroquel. Lithium. Depakote. Losartan. Trileptal. Risperdal. Concerta.
"You name it," Ms. Kitchens said wearily, her voice breaking with each drug's name. "He was given three times the amount given to adult patients. Each of these drugs was given to us by a child psychiatrist."
In foster care in a residential treatment center, Evan, who was not treated by doctors discussed in this report, grew progressively worse. He ballooned from a size 8 to a size 14 - a side effect of many psychiatric drugs. His eyes crossed, and he convulsed with tremors. He had nightmares and panic attacks and hallucinated that bats were chasing him.
Ms. Kitchens, horrified that she'd ever agreed to turn over her son, took out a loan and hired an experienced attorney. On her 40th birthday, she brought Evan home, carefully weaning him off all but one of the medications. Evan's behavior is far from perfect, Ms. Kitchens says, but he's safe and he's happy.
"He was supposed to be in state care, but nobody was looking after Evan but me," said Ms. Kitchens, watching the boy, now 12, wriggling on the kitchen floor with Puppy, his dachshund. "Now my kids don't take medications. I won't ever trust doctors again."
Are drugs needed?
Brett Ferguson, a Kerrville attorney who has represented the interests of foster children, said many in-custody diagnoses seem unwarranted. Almost every child he has represented has been placed on a psychiatric drug while in state care, Mr. Ferguson said, even for minor behavioral problems. Some were so drowsy with medication that they could hardly communicate, he said, and caseworkers refused his requests to reduce their dosages.
"The state takes a child that is upset, crying, yelling and screaming because they've just been taken from their families and, with all those symptoms, prescribes them medication," Mr. Ferguson said. "They think that if the child is unruly, it's easier to deal with them by medicating them than by counseling."
One former operator of a foster treatment center, who spoke only on condition of anonymity for fear of damaging his business relationship with the state, said that half of the children at his facility "could've done with less" psychiatric medication or none at all - and that many were already "zombies" by the time they arrived.
"It's a medical model. We didn't have any other options," said the operator, who acknowledged that sometimes doctors didn't even spend 10 minutes with a child before prescribing a drug. "I always questioned, 'If they didn't need them out there in the real world, why do they need them in here?' But I wasn't about to go against the doctor's orders."
Curbing this kind of overmedication has been a priority, said Darrell Azar, communications manager for the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services. So far in 2008, nearly 22 percent of all Texas foster children have been prescribed psychiatric drugs for more than 60 days, down from 26 percent in 2005.
The percentage is expected to keep dropping - the result of the new health management program and a review this fall of the state's drug procedures for children in foster care.
"We're a lot more confident today that children who don't need these medications aren't getting them," Mr. Azar said.
AT A GLANCE: MOST COMMON DRUGS
Of the top five psychotropic drugs most commonly prescribed to Texas foster children in fiscal year 2007, four cost more than $100 per prescription, and two cost more than $200 per prescription - some of the most expensive drugs given to foster kids. The following five drugs alone accounted for half of the $37.9 million the state spent on psychiatric drugs for foster children in 2007:
RITALIN
Company: Novartis
What it treats: Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, or ADHD
Foster children who took it in 2007: 4,439
Total cost: $3.4 million
RISPERDAL
Company: Janssen
What it treats: Autism, schizophrenia
Foster children who took it in 2007: 3,753
Total cost: $6 million
CLONIDINE
Company: Now a generic
What it treats: ADHD
Foster children who took it in fiscal year 2007: 3,450
Total cost: $215,500
SEROQUEL
Company: AstraZeneca
What it treats: Schizophrenia and psychotic disorders
Foster children who took it in FY2007: 3,418
Total cost: $6.5 million
ADDERALL
Company: Shire
What it treats: ADHD
Foster children who took it in FY2007: 3,169
Total cost: $2.6 million
SOURCES: Department of Family and Protective Services, Texas Health and Human Services Commission
OUR METHODOLOGY
The Dallas Morning News researched this report by starting with a list of all Texas doctors, psychiatrists or clinics that have received state Medicaid payments since 2002 for prescribing mind-altering drugs to children in state foster care.
Focusing on the 300 doctors who have filed more than 200 Medicaid claims since 2002 for prescribing psychiatric drugs to children in foster care, a reporter found that 25 had close ties to drug companies - meaning they had received consulting contracts, grants or other substantial funding. Two dozen more had minor affiliations, receiving small grants, speaker's fees or other honoraria. This information was found by:
.Scanning the "financial disclosure" section of hundreds of studies published in medical journals
.Searching university Web sites for lists of pharmaceutical grants awarded to researchers
.Reviewing records of pharmaceutical drug trials for the names of doctors and clinics running the experiments
.Obtaining programs and fliers from drug company-sponsored conferences and lectures, which featured some of these Texas doctors as guest speakers
The News tried to contact all 15 of the doctors mentioned in today's package. Five returned phone calls. The major drug companies mentioned in the series were also asked to respond, though most did not.