Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

I saw a thing about getting to heaven the other night.  They interviewed various scholars and religous leaders about heaven and how to get there.

I was struck by the fact that the evangelical and the suicide bomber were the only ones who thought they had the "only way" and that everyone else was going to hell.

Just an observation.

I made conscious choices to be the way I was, but then got caught up in it, and felt pretty trapped.  

I had the raging monster thing going on, and Crazy Johnny was a bit too close to home for me.  THe Seed was a "time out" and a "do over" for some stuff, so as I said before, I came out better than I went in.  I was forced to confront a few demons and work those things out.  

I don't believe Art and Co started with the intent to form a cult, but I think it took on those aspects due to the lack of an alternative view.  It does't make it any less real, but for some of us that aspect is more significant than for others.  I went thru this a lot in my own mind in the days after I left, from anger to confusion, to self doubt and back again.  I have come to accept my own feelings and my experience as a given, some positive and some negative - I survived and I'm normal now (I think).

We all measure our own experience on the same yardstick - positive vs negative.  I myself was terrified of fucking up and being started over right up until the day I left.  

After I wrecked my car I was right back to feeling pretty much trapped there (what happened to Barry B (right next to the impact I think), and the brothers from Newbern?).  In theory I could leave at any time.




Happy holidays Merry Christmas and such

Johnny G

THere was a period where the Seed was trying to retain people, as the newcomer rate was pretty slow - and everyone was from some distance away.

In my case the only people I knew outside the program didn't have a lot to offer (I was working at JT Reese, stay cool roofing, construction).  So the easiest thing to do was to stick around - also the rhetoric encouraged that.  I think if I had stayed in Cleveland I would have gone home after I graduated.  My mother came to hate Art Barker about a weekafter I moved to Ft. Lauderdale so I think I would have pretty much disappeared.

I think the Seed gave me the opportunity to get out of the mess I had gotten myself in - one can second guess the prison dead or crazy bit but I gotta say I came out better than I went in.  

As far as being around as long as I was, as mentioned above, the program encouraged that.  I also had set a goal of not fucking up for 5 years and leaving under my own power(5 years seemed to be a milestone - and the folks I initally viewed as more together had been around that long).
 
I accomplished that and left very shortly thereafter - I did feel like I left in the nick of time; A Staff member had mentioned spending more time in the group after a conversation I had with a female seed kid got reported up the ladder.

I was fortunate to be around for the period after the open meetings and before the football games at the beach.  That was a good (but short lived) time when there was a definite break in the routine and control - went mud boggin' in Jeffs truck (cracked the windshield with my head) and got stuck up to the axles.  Twisted a few wrenches, did some fishing, had fun.

I also think it eased the transition quite a bit that I worked away from other seedlings, so I could be myself at work (someone noticed that I was happiest on Monday morning and almost bummed out on Friday afternoon)

Once the football games started I was lucky to be able to "watch the house" most of the time.

I worked my leaving in with a visit home so I could work things out in a more timely manner, came back a week early, got my stuff one afternoon and moved to Coconut Grove.  I wasn't really interested in what the Seed thought of my decision.

It took me a couple years to get adjusted to the freedom and the social aspect of life, I felt like Rip van Winkle.

These are the ingredients for the police state - lack public dissent against the "leadership" everyone (except a few "true believers) has doubts or knows the prevailing view to be bullshit however...

Anyone who questions the status quo is immediately shouted down or worse. Everyone is pulled in to participate in the punishment of the unfortunate dissenter, thereby showing their loyalty.  This prevents any cohesion among the opposition and reinforces the aloneness of the dissenter, and strength of the group.  

The easy path is to not stick out, mouth the party line when spoken to, put the radio by the door so the secret police can hear you listening to the furhers speech.

As said earlier, this is what keeps the group going, the signs and steps are immaterial;  Fear and peer pressure are the main ingredients.  You are either with us or against us, seeling or a druggie...

I think what makes stepcraft survivors different is that we have participated in the Asch experiment writ large, and know what we (and others)are capable of in that situation.  

After a while on the program, the ideals of loyalty, honesty, integrity, and character start to seem pretty hollow as you realize what you are and are not capable of while sitting in the group watching someone you thought was your friend get humiliated in front of the world - and you look like you want join in (you have your hand up, don't you?)  

The sad thing is how many of us felt the same, but were afraid to express it.

We are conditioned thru a year of pre school, a year of kindergarden, 12 years of school, the church (most any church wil do) to listen to the authority (the teacher, staff member, boss) to do as we are told, the authority has the answer - not you.  this creates good little citezens and workers.  

And you thought school was here to teach you to read.

It sounds so simple but how many are really willing to exercise free will when it might hurt?

I recall all of the taboos, then the talent show!!  As mentioned in another thread,  "Holy Shit now what do I think?"  

Although I must have been sufficiently out of the gutter to be allowed to be able to be around the girls apartments while working on their cars, unsupervised.  Which was a mixed blessing, back to the gutter!

The whole "condom in the back of Arts car" event just seemed to twist the knife.  

The football games were disturbing to me on several levels - that could probably be a thread to itself, but I managed to draw the "watch the house" duty in my later days, which probably was best for all concerned.

I spent some time talking to a seed girl at work and that got back to me via the staff in a not pleasant way, reinforcing the taboo.  I left before the repercussions of that could fully manifest;

On the outside, I was pretty clueless how to deal with the whole dating thing, sex etc.  made a few bad choices, I wasn't in high school any more. I got involved with a rape survivor, who had a lot of fear and other issues - underneath it all a sweetheart, which gave me another set of issues to deal with  (guilt for being male).

Then I made the whole thing worse by running off to college at 25.  I got over the gutter/guilt connection pretty soon therafter - I also worked with a rape survivor group at college.

I met my wife at a beer and sandwich place in school

When I was invited to a reunion/dinner/talent show/open meeting event years later (I forget the whole title of the thing) it seemed that half the group was married - (I had my soon to be wife with me - an outsider, I still don't know how that happened).  That was pretty surreal!

I left before the rash of marriages, I guess one had happend before that, but it seemed a lone data point.

it seems I am rambling so I will quit and post this.

JG