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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Daytop Village => Topic started by: Anonymous on June 04, 2006, 05:33:00 PM

Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on June 04, 2006, 05:33:00 PM
The word from the higher ups is Daytop is in financial trouble. Intakes have thus increased and the ADU's poplation has nearly doubled. Anyone who has left (ran off) is replaced by sometimes two new residents within 24 hours. It's been this way for months now.

F*ck Daytop
Title: Population increase
Post by: Troll Control on June 05, 2006, 01:36:00 PM
This hardly seems new to me.  When I worked there all that mattered was "asses in chairs" and "heads in beds."  We were over-pop'ed consistently by 50%.

If they are losing money and feeling the pinch the kids will suffer even worse.  That is a shame.
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on June 13, 2006, 02:58:00 PM
Daytop has been in financial peril for years. I can remember back in the 90's when they had all the staff scrambling to keep the beds full and had difficulty making their payroll. They used to hold out checks for days and some even had their checks bounce. Its incredible that they are still having problems but it is mostly due to the mismanagement of funds, usually by uneducated program directors with no clue as to how to manage multi million dollar budgets, and egos so sky high as to be unable to admit they need help. Funny but that's what they get on their high horse and preach to the masses to do.

Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic
for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has
happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to
the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail,
there will be anarchy throughout the world.

Daniel Webster

Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on June 25, 2006, 12:05:00 PM
Now they don't even kick out the residents that fight, smoke, bring in marijuana, or are just not complying with the program. They treaten to kick them out but they now realize its an empty threat. Apparently substance abuse at a substance abuse treatment center means a couple of hours on the chair and a talk.

F*ck Daytop
Title: Population Increase
Post by: Anonymous on September 17, 2006, 02:34:33 AM
Having recently worked for Daytop, you are right, they have no concept of how to manage funds, nor do they have the most effective people in the right positions. If you are not a part of the group, they will make it hard for you. I referred to it as drinking the KoolAid.They all want to feed their ego. They do not give a damn about the children. There have been drugs, sex, and fighting. Are not these "Cardinals"? No one gets kicked out because it is about the money..period. Staff have attempted to have relationships with the juvenilles who are in the care of Daytop. They are now trying to sell off California. From what I have heard, that program is worse than the programs back here. It was like being in a cult, even as an employee. It was a very weird and troubling experience. :cry:
Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on September 21, 2006, 11:41:34 AM
It's not surprising that they are trying sell off California, they already sold off Texas and Florida to Phoenix House.
Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on September 22, 2006, 04:06:51 PM
It sounds like you were fired from your employment at Daytop. I gues you are jealous that you were not that good at what you were trying to do. Maybe if you spend as much time on your counseling skills as you do on responding to peoples post you may be able to make some level of an impact. If you truly cared about the so called abuse and neglect that goes on, then Why have you not filed complaints or reported the Daytop program to DCA. I think you are just very insecure and feel like you failed. Of course Daytop has to be concerned with $. They can't help people without it. Maybe you should try and create and run a program yourself. If you know what's so wrong and can critize Daytop for waht they do then you should know how to run a more successful program. Remember Honesty is the best policy. You need to start being Honest with yourself.
Title: Honesty
Post by: odie on September 25, 2006, 08:22:06 AM
Now there's a word that is spoken daily at Daytop, but rarely practiced by its leaders. ::bwahaha::
Title: Re: The Truth
Post by: Troll Control on September 25, 2006, 08:26:42 AM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
It sounds like you were fired from your employment at Daytop. I gues you are jealous that you were not that good at what you were trying to do. Maybe if you spend as much time on your counseling skills as you do on responding to peoples post you may be able to make some level of an impact. If you truly cared about the so called abuse and neglect that goes on, then Why have you not filed complaints or reported the Daytop program to DCA. I think you are just very insecure and feel like you failed. Of course Daytop has to be concerned with $. They can't help people without it. Maybe you should try and create and run a program yourself. If you know what's so wrong and can critize Daytop for waht they do then you should know how to run a more successful program. Remember Honesty is the best policy. I want you to start being Honest with yourself.


Warning!  Warning!  You have just read program bullshit and projection.  Please wash your cerebral cortex accordingly.
Title: Re: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2006, 01:00:02 PM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
It sounds like you were fired from your employment at Daytop. I gues you are jealous that you were not that good at what you were trying to do. Maybe if you spend as much time on your counseling skills as you do on responding to peoples post you may be able to make some level of an impact. If you truly cared about the so called abuse and neglect that goes on, then Why have you not filed complaints or reported the Daytop program to DCA. I think you are just very insecure and feel like you failed. Of course Daytop has to be concerned with $. They can't help people without it. Maybe you should try and create and run a program yourself. If you know what's so wrong and can critize Daytop for waht they do then you should know how to run a more successful program. Remember Honesty is the best policy. I want you to start being Honest with yourself.

What exactly is the DCA? Daytop has been reported literally thousands of times but can afford anything thrown its way. Either they make a settlement with a complaintant or just cover it up.
Title: Truth
Post by: Anonymous on September 26, 2006, 04:13:43 PM
DCA= Department of Consumer Affairs. You can claim that they can handle anything thrown at them, but you can't say they help people. Not every program fits every person. Since Truth is your Username, maybe you should practice it. The Truth is, they try to help people. Not evryone gets help from this type of treatment. Instead of being so negative about what positive inpact the program has had on some you may want to advise truthfully and educate people about what does work wityhin the program. The Truth is they assist people with being Honest with themselves. They assist people to take responsibility for themselves. The Program does not change people, people change themselves. The Program (Daytop) can only guide them You get out of the Program (Daytop) ehat you put into it. I have seen hundreds of people that they could not help be referred out to other agencies for the appropriate care. The Truth is you know little about Daytop and Treatment.  :exclaim:
Title: Truth
Post by: odie on September 27, 2006, 07:52:44 AM
The truth is I know a whole lot about Daytop including a lot of their dirty laundry they don't want public. Pardon me for posting anonymously but it was in mistake.  Now you say that you have seen hundreds of people referred elsewhere by Daytop. That seems quite a small number considering how many intakes they have. I guess you must be one of those newbie staff members that haven't seen the light yet and I hope your do otherwise all your dreams will be crushed.
Title: Truth
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2006, 08:28:36 AM
Well Odie, Again you have it wrong. I 'm not a newbie. In fact I don't even work for Daytop. I did and although I did not agree with everything that Daytop did, I do know that they try to Help people. Does everyone agree with everything their employer does? The thousands of clients or residents that Daytop treats are spread out over a Large number of facilities. The large number comes from the fact that Daytop can and does help people. If your concerns are true, I would suggest you encourage people who need help to seek it. If you don't believe Daytop is appropriate for some individuals then you have a moral responsibility to suggest an agency that can help. You are very pre-occupied with bad rapping Daytop. If you feel your concerns are valid then you should express your bad experiences and also mention the good Daytop does. It is very easy to sit back and criticize an agency or Bad rap them. The fact is and you know it, Not every program works for everyone. Each person has individual needs. Those needs must be addressed. Daytop does address people?s needs, but can't help everyone. Remember that when a person is seeking help they need to get it. Telling people that Daytop only hurts people is wrong and you know it. Give both sides of the story. I know you have seen people do well at Daytop. They did well because the program works. In addition you should support people and encourage them, not try and minimize accomplishments of individuals and programs. Remember Honesty is the best policy.
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on September 27, 2006, 11:31:51 AM
Daytop's modality of treatment is outdated and while at one time it served its purpose it no longer does. Sure Daytop helped some people and I am a perfect example but it failed to evolve from its roots of archaic ritualistic bullshit. They attempt to turn people into robots and when the machines rebel they are ostracized. I was a victim of misguided loyalty until I finally saw the light and moved on. I will be eternally grateful for my Daytop experience only because it made me a better person after I left it, both personally and professionally.
Title: Truth
Post by: Anonymous on September 27, 2006, 03:49:57 PM
:D  :D  :D  :D  :D  I have to correct you again Odie. Daytop's modality is not outdated. It has evolved as addicts have evolved. I am very happy to hear some acknowledgement of success and I am very happy for your success. Daytop has modified treatment greatly. You may find it interesting that Daytop has been accredited by both JCAHO and CARF. I would suggest you research these boards of accreditation and look at the standards for accreditation. These boards are the ones who certify and accredit hospitals. They are thought to be the leading ethics and standard setters in the field of health and medicine.  If Daytop was as abusive or harmful as you suggest they would never gain accreditation. In fact some specific facilities have been recognized by various branches of government, medical institutions as well as scholars. I agree that at certain points in the past some of Daytop's tactics seemed outdated, But so did the field of substance abuse. With the proper funding and education to the field the tools used to treat addicts have progressed tremendously. Daytop does not create robots they help individuals become independent from substance abuse. I to am grateful for your experience. I am also sorry you had a bad experience. Some times things just don't fit. The truth is that people are helped at Daytop. As well as other programs. It would be great if anyone wanting help could get it. The field will continue to grow and I hope that Daytop and other programs will grow with it. Good Luck and I wish you continued success.
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on September 27, 2006, 04:01:48 PM
Daytop was and is very good at misrepresenting itself when it needs to. I knew they were seeking CARF accrededation but was unaware of JCAHO but that's really good to know because the best thing about JCAHO is that they do unannounced inspections. I will be communicating with them.
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on September 27, 2006, 04:11:50 PM
Now why am I not surprised that when I checked both organizations websites that neither list Daytop as being accredited? Because maybe truth be told you don't know what your talking about? :rofl:
Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2006, 09:00:54 AM
Odie, Odie, Odie, You are incorrect or have chosen to be DISHONEST... I know for a fact that Daytop is accredited. Daytop, NJ was the first long term inpatient program treating juveniles in the U.S. to receive JCAHO accreditation. I believe the year was 1994 0r 95. In fact they received the highest level of accreditation possible at that time. They were re-accredited in about 98 or 99. I could be wrong with the year, but I am pretty close. In late 2005 or early 2006, Daytop, NJ was awarded CARF accreditation. This accreditation (CARF) was chosen because most Insurance Company?s prefer it. Again Daytop was awarded the highest level of accreditation. I too Checked the CARF web site and Found that not only was one facility accredited, but both of Daytop, NJ residential programs. As well as the Outpatient programs. Now Odie, if you would like to check on this to, you can. Go to the Web site of CARF. Click program check or find CARF approved programs. You are looking for Behavioral Health (BC) - TC. You will find what you are looking for. Now Odie, I suggest you exhaust your energy becoming more knowledgeable in what really is going on. Daytop is Helping people. You seem be outdated and uneducated in your views. Daytop is a good program and not what you spew. The field of substance abuse treatment has changed greatly in the last 10 - 15 years as ahs Daytop. I suggest you seek help for your misguided feelings. Remember Honesty is the Best Policy.  :rofl:  :D  :P  :exclaim:
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on September 28, 2006, 11:41:08 AM
http://www.carf.org/consumer.aspx?Conte ... .html&ID=1 (http://www.carf.org/consumer.aspx?Content=Content/ConsumerServices/cs01en.html&ID=1)

http://www.jointcommission.org/ (http://www.jointcommission.org/)

Here are the link's to both websites. Daytop's so called accrededation can not be found on either. I have no reason to lie about how bad this place is. Funny you should use the Daytop in NJ for your example of its program excellence especially since that's where they had that priest that was molesting young boys. :roll:
Title: Population increase
Post by: Troll Control on September 28, 2006, 11:59:55 AM
Odie's right.  I followed your link to the search feature here:

http://www.carf.org/providers.aspx?content=search (http://www.carf.org/providers.aspx?content=search)

Daytop is not one of their providers.

Same here:

http://jcsearch.jcaho.org/cgi-bin/MsmFi ... ERY=daytop (http://jcsearch.jcaho.org/cgi-bin/MsmFind.exe?RESMASK=MssResEN.msk&CFGNAME=MssFindEN.cfg&AND_ON=N&QUERY=daytop)

No Daytop.

Now, who's being dishonest again?
Title: The Truth Again
Post by: Anonymous on September 28, 2006, 03:10:52 PM
ODIE,  :flame:  You are Not trying to be truthful  :rofl: . Here are step by step directions. Follow and you will find what you are looking for. The truth is there you just need to look.

Step 1 ? go to this site.
http://www.carf.org/Consumer.aspx?Conte ... earch&ID=7 (http://www.carf.org/Consumer.aspx?Content=ConsumerSearch&ID=7)

Step 2: Click Behavioral Health on first drop down listed as: Filter programs by Customer Service Unit

Step 3: Click on Select a Program: scroll down to: BH Therapeutic Communities>

Step 4: On State: Scroll down to: NJ

Step5: Click on Search;

Last program listed on Page 1 and first Program listed on page 2 is Daytop Village of Mendham and Pittsgrove New Jersey.

I would also recommend using Google to search JCAHO, Daytop, NJ.
You can check the Daytop web site for this quote.
1997 the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations (JCAHO) awarded Daytop NJ accreditation with commendation. In the spring of 2001, Daytop NJ received a provisional license from the New Jersey Department of Education, to operate a private school for students with educational disabilities. This has made Daytop Preparatory School the first (and only) licensed approved private school for students with educational disabilities in New Jersey that is also committed to a long term substance abuse treatment program.

As you can see it does not take a lot to find accurate information. I do believe that an Ex-Priest who manipulated the system of Licensing as well as lied about his identity was working at the Daytop, NJ facility. In fact they were the ones who reported him. Daytop like many other programs and facilities that deal with kids are always faced with the fact that not every employee is trying to help people. Check any school, Hospital, Child care agency and you will find this. In Fact Odie, You can Google the local paper by Daytop, NJ. The Daily Record of Morris County New Jersey. In Order to do this. Go to Google and enter Daytop, NJ, Dailey Record. I am sure you will find what you are looking for.
Odie, you again are very very wrong in your information. It?s OK to accept that, It takes a true Man/ Woman to overcome their short comings. Again HONESTY is the Best POLICY. Good Look.
Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on September 29, 2006, 08:29:40 AM
You can check the Daytop web site for this quote.  Your kidding right? Find Truth in advertising by Daytop? OMFG that's like I'm gonna win the Powerball Jackpot tomorrow night. :lol:
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on September 29, 2006, 09:18:53 AM
Hmmm...I stand corrected. The CARF info wasn't there yesterday but is this morning. But the JCAHO site still doesn't show anything about Daytop being accredited by them so it is entirely possible that they were in 1997 but not today. As far as that priest lying about who he was all Daytop had to do was check his credentials and they would have found the truth. As far as them reporting him they were required by law to report it. But I am a little curious now as to why Daytop in New York isn't accredited by anyone considering that is their world headquarters and the location of the bulk of their facilities ::cheers::
Title: Truth
Post by: Anonymous on September 29, 2006, 12:24:01 PM
Well Odie, I am very happy to hear you admit when you are wrong. The information was on the site yesterday and has been since the Daytop Program was accredited. You are also correct when you mention that Daytop was JCAHO accredited in the past. They have allowed that accreditation to expire since they have chosen to go with CARF. This I have since learned. I do want to state that the quote from the Daytop web site was for year reference only. I was not going to argue the point without correct information. If you are interested in the facts, contact the JCAHO and establish the years of accreditation. On your other point about Daytop doing a credential check. You again assume Daytop is neglect in their efforts. You can Google the incident and find numerous links that will explain the whole story. The fact is Daytop not only did a credential check that showed the individual was licensed and in good standing with the state. They also did a background check and a reference check. All have been proven and all showed someone who at the time seemed above board. If you look, you will also find that the Prosecutors office involved in the case acknowledged that Daytop, Not the authorities were the ones who brought this information into light.
Odie, you exhaust allot of efforts looking to prove your point. Anyone can do that. The fact is and remains the Program does help people. As for the New York, CARF accreditation. You already know that Daytop, NY has roughly 10 -15 facilities. These must all be accredited at the same time. This takes years for each state to organize and facilitate. The point being made is that Daytop has evolved. SO should you. You can inquire about the CARF accreditation and Daytop, NY pursuit of it. It's happening. They are and have been in the process for a couple of years. I would imagine they will acquire it in the near future (I'm sure you will have a reason as to why they don't have it now), Odie, Times have changed. Get with it. You only tell a one sided view of one experience. You know that there is more to the story. But you should be Honest and you are not. There was also a previous post about Daytop selling off the Florida and Texas Facilities. Wrong again. Those states incorporated a Corrections based treatment model. Daytop chose to leave in order to keep the Integrity of the Daytop Program. They were not willing to allow the Corrections department to dictate treatment or determine how long a person must be in treatment (and in some cases return to jail). As for California, I?m sure there is more to the story. You have to try and see good in people and not assume they are trying to hurt people or that there is some master conspiracy taking place. Remember Odie, Honesty, Honesty, and Honesty. I wish you well.  :wink:  :idea:  :exclaim:  :wink:
Title: Population increase
Post by: Troll Control on September 29, 2006, 12:29:06 PM
Quote
Integrity of the Daytop Program

There is no such thing.  Next you're going to tell us that all the residents ride Unicorns to reentry.  Gimme a fucking break.  "Integrity" and "Daytop" don't belong in the same paragraph.[/quote]
Title: Truth
Post by: Anonymous on September 29, 2006, 04:09:49 PM
Some Do.  :rofl: They also overcome their problems. In fact I bet 1 or 2 even succeed. Even without Your  :evil: support.
Title: Re: Truth
Post by: odie on September 29, 2006, 05:21:07 PM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
Well Odie, I am very happy to hear you admit when you are wrong. The information was on the site yesterday and has been since the Daytop Program was accredited. You are also correct when you mention that Daytop was JCAHO accredited in the past.
Misleading Point #1They have allowed that accreditation to expire since they have chosen to go with CARF.
JCAHO has higher standards than CARF and Daytop could only hide their inadequecies for so long.
 This I have since learned. I do want to state that the quote from the Daytop web site was for year reference only. I was not going to argue the point without correct information. If you are interested in the facts, contact the JCAHO and establish the years of accreditation. On your other point about Daytop doing a credential check. You again assume Daytop is neglect in their efforts. You can Google the incident and find numerous links that will explain the whole story. The fact is Daytop not only did a credential check that showed the individual was licensed and in good standing with the state. They also did a background check and a reference check. All have been proven and all showed someone who at the time seemed above board.
Misleading Point # 2 If you look, you will also find that the Prosecutors office involved in the case acknowledged that Daytop, Not the authorities were the ones who brought this information into light. Federal Law required them to report child abuse. If they hadn't and one of those abused kids did they would have lost their license. It's a case of CYA.
Odie, you exhaust allot of efforts looking to prove your point. Anyone can do that.
Misleading Point # 3  The fact is and remains the Program does help people. I'd rather look at results like how many people that enter the program actually finish it as opposed to saying it helps people.
Misleading Point # 4 As for the New York, CARF accreditation. You already know that Daytop, NY has roughly 10 -15 facilities. These must all be accredited at the same time. This takes years for each state to organize and facilitate. The point being made is that Daytop has evolved. SO should you. You can inquire about the CARF accreditation and Daytop, NY pursuit of it. It's happening. They are and have been in the process for a couple of years. I would imagine they will acquire it in the near future (I'm sure you will have a reason as to why they don't have it now),
Daytop in NY started to try to be CARF accredited in 1997 and has yet to accomplish it. I can see a couple of years to get your shit together but 9? Gimme a break.
Misleading Point # 5 Odie, Times have changed. Get with it. You only tell a one sided view of one experience. You know that there is more to the story.
Yes I only tell the side that I experienced as an employee for ten years, I almost want to forget the atrocities I experienced as a resident.
But you should be Honest and you are not.
Misleading Pont #6 There was also a previous post about Daytop selling off the Florida and Texas Facilities. Wrong again. Those states incorporated a Corrections based treatment model. Daytop chose to leave in order to keep the Integrity of the Daytop Program. They were not willing to allow the Corrections department to dictate treatment or determine how long a person must be in treatment (and in some cases return to jail).
That was true in Florida but they surely didn't just give their properties to Phoenix House. You don't even wanna get into the Texas fiasco because your info is totally wrong.
 As for California, I?m sure there is more to the story. You have to try and see good in people and not assume they are trying to hurt people or that there is some master conspiracy taking place. Remember Odie, Honesty, Honesty, and Honesty. I wish you well.  :wink:  :idea:  :exclaim:  :wink:

So the next time you try to spew the misguided truth first find out who you are trying to bullshit. :rofl:
Title: Truth
Post by: Anonymous on September 30, 2006, 07:23:24 AM
Odie, this is Beginning to get good. You can claim what ever you want, but you rarely have Facts. In each and every post you make, it seems like you are getting more desperate in your claims. The Truth can only be stretched so far. As for Daytop and accreditation, the Fact is that they have it, As for the bad employee, again it was taken care of. You Have gone from saying Daytop helps NO ONE. To Now saying well it helps some, You want to look at the number of people who enter compared to the number who finish. Well you will see tremendous difference in the numbers. As you will with every program, Therapy, Treatment Model. I ask you to define success and then we can begin to look at how Daytop compares. Now Odie, I don't understand this one. You claim to have been a resident who had a horrible experience, Then you were employed by the Daytop Program for 10 years. If things were so bad and you witnessed so many atrocities, Why Stay. I think you were fired or close to it. But you know what, Lets take each incident of poor treatment and look at it. Bring it on.
The issues you claim with Texas bring them on as well. This looks like it will be fun. You have to be honest Odie, You are only hurting yourself. Oh, lets deal with the Facts not your feelings or thoughts.  8) 8)
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on October 04, 2006, 10:37:25 AM
Why stay? That's an easy one....misguided loyalty. Close to being fires?..nope not even close. Texas? Well I got 2 words for you....Chappell Hill...now go back to your connections and ask if you should even try to fuck with me.
Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2006, 03:33:33 PM
Unfortunately Odie, I don't have any connections at Daytop. But let me say 10 years of misguided loyalty? That seems excessive, don't you think. If your experience was soooooo horrible as a resident why seek employment? As for Chapel Hill, enlighten me: :exclaim:  Now the fact remains that the Daytop program does help people. It is unfortunate whenever individuals believe they are more important then that, it does however happen. As with life you can't judge things on one or even a few poor experiences. The totality of the program is what counts. As the program grew and continues to grow, you will always have individuals who are not true to the cause. I to had many of a bad experience with individuals. At times I even questioned the purpose. But the fact is and I know its true Daytop helps people. Regardless of what you experienced in Texas, NY, NJ or Fl, I'm sure that you also experienced the Good. I know many of a good person who worked in Daytop Texas. You should inform people of the bad or wrongs as well as the Good the program does.
Title: Re: The Truth
Post by: Troll Control on October 04, 2006, 08:38:44 PM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
Unfortunately Odie, I don't have any connections at Daytop. But let me say 10 years of misguided loyalty? That seems excessive, don't you think. If your experience was soooooo horrible as a resident why seek employment? As for Chapel Hill, enlighten me: :exclaim:  Now the fact remains that the Daytop program does help people. It is unfortunate whenever individuals believe they are more important then that, it does however happen. As with life you can't judge things on one or even a few poor experiences. The totality of the program is what counts. As the program grew and continues to grow, you will always have individuals who are not true to the cause. I to had many of a bad experience with individuals. At times I even questioned the purpose. But the fact is and I know its true Daytop helps people. Regardless of what you experienced in Texas, NY, NJ or Fl, I'm sure that you also experienced the Good. I know many of a good person who worked in Daytop Texas. You should inform people of the bad or wrongs as well as the Good the program does.


i wonder if you have any idea how condescending and strange you sound.  you seem like a pretty creepy person trying to recruit other flakes.  "true to the cause"?  this alone shows how culty and strange daytop was and still is.  when i read your posts i feel like i need a shower.  you do a lot of condescending preaching (a daytop hallmark) and that only hurts whatever message you're trying to get across.  we call people like you "daytopians" - strange people who practice the opposite of what they preach.  not a good image at all for pimping a program.
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on October 05, 2006, 07:50:28 AM
Ahhh....no connections huh? I think you do and I just struck a big nerve with Chapell Hill. You knew so many people from Texas and Florida huh? Just name a few and who do they work for now?
Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on October 05, 2006, 08:38:56 AM
Preaching Ha, Well if thats what you call telling the truth so be it. It's amazing how people find it so easy to lie. That's the issue. Anyone can claim anything, you have to have facts. As for my connections at Daytop they don't exsist. In fact I only have contact with one or two people who I worked with in the 80's and 90's. Now for a few names, no problem - Mike G (deceased), Michele - who know's, Ed (deceased). I know Mike G. worked in both locations. SO explain.
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on October 06, 2006, 09:29:21 AM
Well I see you don't know very much. Mike G. was run out of Dallas and replaced by Michelle H. who now works for Phoenix House as a director. Shame about Ed C., he was one of the better guys Daytop had at the time. As far as Florida is concerned when Mike G hooked up with that pompous pontificator Ed H., they screwed things up so bad Daytop had little choice but to leave and all their top people stayed on and went to work for Phoenix House. Don't be fooled by their cover up story that they couldn't run things the Daytop way. Phoenix House took over and are still there.
Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2006, 12:28:26 PM
Odie, so you do actually have some credible information. At least partly. You are correct about Ed.S, He was a good man. As for Ed.H, I tend to agree with you about him being a pompous pontificator. You know I never personally liked. In fact I disagreed with his tone, behaviors and methods. I do however know you have incorrect information on Mike G. He was not run out of Texas at all. Unfortunately he was very sick. His health was the factor. Mike G. was a very good and caring Man.  He actually was very close with Ed.S and in some ways was a mentor to him.  As for Mike G. and Florida. He was sent to keep an eye on Florida. The powers that be were very concerned with Ed.H. Unfortunately Mike G. could not physically do it. He passed away in Ocala. Florida also was and still is a very corrections based state. The corrections department dictates the course of treatment and who enters and leaves. As for the staff who stayed. They were given the choice to pick up and leave Florida or stay on with Phoenix House.  Some went back to NY and some stayed. Very happy to hear that Michele is doing well. I always liked her and her husband.  SO again Odie, You fail to explain how the program is so bad. You also have not explained Chapel Hill.
Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on October 06, 2006, 12:34:50 PM
Quote
But the fact is and I know its true Daytop helps people


Could you please provide a link to the study or research on the efficacy of Daytop?
Title: Population increase
Post by: Troll Control on October 06, 2006, 01:11:24 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
But the fact is and I know its true Daytop helps people

Could you please provide a link to the study or research on the efficacy of Daytop?


I'd like to see that too.  The "Truth" likes to keep repeating that "Daytop helps" while asking for evidence of Odie's claims.  Truth, you haven't provided a single shred of evidence that Daytop actually does work (NO anecdotes, please.  Just scientific evidence like a longitudinal study).

I have a lot of experience with Daytop and I can't find anything "helpful" about it; from the abuse of residents to the deeply flawed "treatment model."

Please, stop preaching and start teaching.  Please post the results of clinical studies that prove Daytop's efficacy.

Thank you.
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on October 06, 2006, 03:02:18 PM
You will not find any positive findings research because no independent research has ever been done and "Honesty" knows it.What you may find is internal outcomes studies that will reflect like most programs the longer you stay, the longer you stay clean. On the other hand there is a boat load of independent research that shows how the archaic techniques used by TC's under the mask olf behavioral modification therapy is abusive, and in some forms illegal. Was I a part of this at one time? Indeed I was. When I rebelled against their tactics I was branded a malcontent. FinallyI gave up my fight and moved away. Abuse at Daytop wasn't just from staff to resident but also from senior staff to lower staff. I will niether forgive nor forget that. :wave:
Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on October 08, 2006, 06:36:20 AM
The  link to the study or research on the efficacy of Daytop is: http://wwf.fornits.com (http://wwf.fornits.com). My proof that Daytop works is Odie.
 I'm sure I could research Daytop and come back with a number of studies saying one thing or another, You will find something wrong with it. My only to question to you all is to define success?  Odie is living proof that daytop works as are a number of people who posted on this site. Odie, I'm still waiting for the info on Chapel Hill.
Title: Re: The Truth
Post by: Troll Control on October 10, 2006, 12:07:42 PM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
The  link to the study or research on the efficacy of Daytop is: http://wwf.fornits.com (http://wwf.fornits.com). My proof that Daytop works is Odie.
 I'm sure I could research Daytop and come back with a number of studies saying one thing or another, You will find something wrong with it. My only to question to you all is to define success?  Odie is living proof that daytop works as are a number of people who posted on this site. Odie, I'm still waiting for the info on Chapel Hill.


And you were supposedly employed there?  Yet you cannot even identify what a clinical trial is or if there was one performed in regard to Daytop?

You see, this is the problem with Daytop: uneducated, program grad hacks and quacks trying to provide "therapy" for residents.  Honesty, you don't belong anywhere near a client in any therapeutic capacity.

When you're asked for specific information, you pull the standard Daytop BS.  Show the research, or concede the point like an adult, Honesty.  You are a shining example of all that's WRONG with Daytop, not what's RIGHT.  Sheesh.
Title: Re: The Truth
Post by: odie on October 10, 2006, 03:52:41 PM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
The  link to the study or research on the efficacy of Daytop is: http://wwf.fornits.com (http://wwf.fornits.com). My proof that Daytop works is Odie.
 I'm sure I could research Daytop and come back with a number of studies saying one thing or another, You will find something wrong with it. My only to question to you all is to define success?  Odie is living proof that daytop works as are a number of people who posted on this site. Odie, I'm still waiting for the info on Chapel Hill.

No actually Odie is living proof that once you leave Daytop you can see it for what it really is.  I succeeded in life not because of Daytop but of all the hard work I did and continue to do. If you want to call warehousing people until they clean themselves up and look real good on the outside a measure of success then yes Daytop can work for some people, usually only the ones that are on death's doorstep to begin with as I was.
As far as Chappell Hill is concerned that was one of the bigger messes that Daytop got into. They opened that adolescent Texas facility in 1991 and lost their license in 1994. It had a wonderful history from hiring a wanted felon (child molestor), to a director that was caught lying on video tape at a community meeting about staff having firearms on the property. Then there were the many runaways that caused damage to neighbors' property including stealing the local Fire Chief's car. Oh and I'd be remiss to forget the assaults on kids by staff. All in all a place that Daytop would very much like to forget.
Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on October 16, 2006, 01:29:39 PM
Odie, I'm very happy for your continued success. No matter what the reason or method, is that you changed the fact is that you did. I'm also sure Daytop assisted in some way. That's the issue. You seem to have had some good experiences as well as bad. Both should be discussed. Yes, Daytop has made mistakes. No body denies that. The issue is that they try and do help people. I?m very sure that Daytop did not plan to go to Texas, New York, Florida or anywhere else with a master plan to hurt people. Just like in a hospital or other types of treatment, some individuals make poor decisions. The intent of the program is what?s important. When issues arise they must be addressed. The fact is Daytop has addressed them and has also made numerous changes to better the program. This you know and can?t deny. I believe the common practice to treat lepers was to place them in isolation; to treat mental illness was to hospitalize people or hide them away. Shock Therapy was at one time considered appropriate treatment.  

 Now to address the question of clinical trials. Numerous studies have been done on both an Internal and external basis. You are correct in saying that the longer you stay in treatment the better the outcome. In fact that is what Daytop has been saying for years. I found numerous sites that back this information up (http://www.drugabuse.gov/ResearchReport ... fault.html (http://www.drugabuse.gov/ResearchReports/Therapeutic/default.html), http://www.substanceabusepolicy.com/content/1/1/3 (http://www.substanceabusepolicy.com/content/1/1/3), http://www.drugabuse.gov/pdf/monographs/144.pdf (http://www.drugabuse.gov/pdf/monographs/144.pdf). More can be listed, but I will not waste my time since no matter what they say; you, I?m sure will argue it. Oh, and yes, you can find numerous studies to counter these findings. The issue in the field is how to define success? This question must first be answered to achieve a true study of success.
Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on October 17, 2006, 09:07:56 AM
neither article can be found :question:
Title: Population increase
Post by: Troll Control on October 20, 2006, 11:12:07 AM
And neither has to do with Daytop.  My question:  After decades in "the business," why hasn't Daytop ever conducted a single, solitary study of their outcomes?  

My suspicion is because they keep no data and have no interest in exposing anything about themselves to public scrutiny.  They keep their mouths shut because if they don't there will be no denying that they are full of bologna, to put it nicely.
Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on October 20, 2006, 08:41:40 PM
Well if you have decades in the business then should know that in order for an outcome study to be proven accurate it must be conducted by an independent party. These articles speak directly to the TC Concept. Daytop has done many outcome studies that report very successful numbers. I know that quoting these will only solicit a response from YOU saying they are lying. So let's look at the whole picture. The reports that I listed speak about the TC concept and treatment method. The national average for positive outcomes is in the 34 - 39 percentile for success. Both the medical model and behavioral model are very similar in numbers. Daytop and for that matter TC's have a higher rate of success. These reports acknowledge that. The issue with outcomes and Substance abuse treatment is how to define success. If a person enters treatment and they had previously been committing crimes (Robbery, Theft etc) and using on a Dailey basis (Heroin, Cocaine). After treatment they remain Substance free for 5 - 10 years, are employed paying taxes and being productive. Then have a set back on marijuana 1 time. Are these people a failure. If they never commit a new crime and maintain some level of being responsible are they a failure. Mr. Know it all answer that. Give your description of success.
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on October 24, 2006, 09:26:42 AM
Quote from: ""Guest""
And neither has to do with Daytop.  My question:  After decades in "the business," why hasn't Daytop ever conducted a single, solitary study of their outcomes?  

My suspicion is because they keep no data and have no interest in exposing anything about themselves to public scrutiny.  They keep their mouths shut because if they don't there will be no denying that they are full of bologna, to put it nicely.

Daytop has conducted many internal studies of their outcomes but I highly doubt they will ever publish them. I just wonder how long it will be before anybody ever decides to look into how public funds are spent on useless treatments. I mean we are talking about tens of millions of dollars per year here.
Title: Truth
Post by: Anonymous on October 24, 2006, 02:45:15 PM
Odie, There you go again. The 10's of millions spend are why you can today continue to be dishonest. The money has helped many people.
Title: Re: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on October 24, 2006, 03:18:16 PM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
Well if you have decades in the business then should know that in order for an outcome study to be proven accurate it must be conducted by an independent party. These articles speak directly to the TC Concept. Daytop has done many outcome studies that report very successful numbers. .



Do you see any contradiction in your statement at all or are you really that dense?
Title: Population increase
Post by: Troll Control on October 24, 2006, 03:20:18 PM
This guy's an idiot.  I don't think he gets too much of anything at all...
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on October 24, 2006, 03:29:32 PM
I wonder where all that money goes anyways? How can a program that touts a 65% failure rate continue to exist? Why do unsuspecting donors continue to pour money into such a sham? Why is it that nobody has ever looked into exactly how these millions are spent? How could Daytop always be in financial peril? Over 40 years of smoke and mirrors has allowed this to happen. I wonder how they would do in a Medicaid audit? You know, the kind where they have to pay back money they have received when the paperwork is out of order. States are now paying private companies to audit these things and taking back millions each year. Maybe that's what is needed here. A good accounting of an outfit that preaches that on a daily basis.
Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on October 24, 2006, 03:38:08 PM
That's one of the things that finally got Miller Newton of Straight.  Medicaid fraud.

The short answer to your question about how these places continue to exist is that it appeals to both ends of the spectrum but for different reasons.  Conservatives like the get tough/tough love crap.  It gets votes when they go out and talk about how they're clamping down on juvenile crime.  Liberals think of it as an 'alternative' school.  They all hear bits and pieces and it sounds good (just like parents looking over the beautiful brochures) but never really look into what's really going on.  As long as they can stand up and claim they're 'doing something for kids', they don't really care.
Title: Truth
Post by: Anonymous on October 25, 2006, 08:25:35 AM
It's amazing how very desperate you are. First, you say the Daytop program does not work, Then you say they have a success rate, then you claim no research has been performed, Then you claim the research is not accurate, Then you say TC's are bogus, Then you claim no monitoring is performed, Then you say the monitoring that is performed is not accurate, Then you claim Medicaid fraud, Now you claim a political master plan of a cover up. What's next? The fact of the matter is YOU are desperate to prove YOUR view, which is WRONG. . It's sad that you?re so short sited.  The facts are the Facts. The TC concept and The Daytop program work. You need to come to terms with it.
Title: Re: Truth
Post by: Troll Control on October 25, 2006, 09:11:17 AM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
It's amazing how very desperate you are. First, you say the Daytop program does not work, Then you say they have a success rate, then you claim no research has been performed, Then you claim the research is not accurate, Then you say TC's are bogus, Then you claim no monitoring is performed, Then you say the monitoring that is performed is not accurate, Then you claim Medicaid fraud, Now you claim a political master plan of a cover up. What's next? The fact of the matter is YOU are desperate to prove YOUR view, which is WRONG. . It's sad that you?re so short sited.  The facts are the Facts. The TC concept and The Daytop program work. I want you to come to terms with it.


Show the RESEARCH.  Don't just sit here spewing the Daytop party line.  I worked there (as a classically educated, licensed professional) and I can tell you with certainty it does not work and the methods employed are, in fact, psychologically damaging.

If you have some evidence of efficacy, post it.  Otherwise button your lip.
Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on October 25, 2006, 12:46:32 PM
You are classically Outdated educated, licensed professional. Your posts are very far from the truth. I imagine you were fired from your employment with Daytop. Your call for research has been addressed and answered. Your claims are also personal not fact. Get over your hurt feelings and come to terms with the fact that you?re outdated.
Title: Re: The Truth
Post by: Troll Control on October 25, 2006, 01:00:18 PM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
You are classically Outdated educated, licensed professional. Your posts are very far from the truth. I imagine you were fired from your employment with Daytop. Your call for research has been addressed and answered. Your claims are also personal not fact. Get over your hurt feelings and come to terms with the fact that you?re outdated.


What the hell are you talking about?  The only one here who is completely uneducated, obtuse and "outdated" is you.  And, no, I was not fired from Daytop, I resigned over (and reported to the authorities) Daytop's criminal and abusive behavior surrounding its clients.

Once again, since you cannot prove anything you say, you resort to ad hominem fallacies (the sign of the truly mentally underprivileged).  I'm glad to debate the facts of the matter, but you don't seem to have any.  All you have is "Daytop works.  I'm proof."  Well, if that's the case, I'd prefer not to have Daytop "work" on anyone else if the end-product is only imbeciles.

Please, don't bother to respond with any more inanities.  Offer empirical evidence to support your position or just keep quiet.  Your mental acuity is near zero.
Title: Re: The Truth
Post by: Troll Control on October 25, 2006, 01:25:01 PM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
You are classically Outdated educated, licensed professional. Your posts are very far from the truth. I imagine you were fired from your employment with Daytop. Your call for research has been addressed and answered. Your claims are also personal not fact. Get over your hurt feelings and come to terms with the fact that you?re outdated.


Oh, boy.  This guy is really shot.  Another know-nothing junkie that seems to have had some serious brain damage.  Whew.
Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on October 25, 2006, 05:30:08 PM
It's amazing that when you are proven wrong it has to be because the person is a Junkie and doesn?t know what they are saying. I have proven my point. I will debate any point you want. You ask for facts and I'm the one giving them. Your so called resignation was likely offered to you because you have minimal insight, and your criminal allegations seem to have been unfounded. Now lets get to the facts. The program has existed for 40 years because it works. Through the years many have benefitted. Unfortunately some have not. If a person does not respond to some form of medical treatment does that mean that doctors don't know what they are doing? Of course not. You claim this and that, but have never proven anything. So lets start talking about the facts Mr.Dysfunction Junction.  Anyone can make claims, You have to prove them and you have not. :rofl:
Title: Re: The Truth
Post by: Troll Control on October 25, 2006, 06:35:57 PM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
It's amazing that when you are proven wrong it has to be because the person is a Junkie and doesn?t know what they are saying. I have proven my point. I will debate any point you want. You ask for facts and I'm the one giving them. Your so called resignation was likely offered to you because you have minimal insight, and your criminal allegations seem to have been unfounded. Now lets get to the facts. The program has existed for 40 years because it works. Through the years many have benefitted. Unfortunately some have not. If a person does not respond to some form of medical treatment does that mean that doctors don't know what they are doing? Of course not. You claim this and that, but have never proven anything. So lets start talking about the facts Mr.Dysfunction Junction.  Anyone can make claims, You have to prove them and you have not. :rofl:


All this guy is here for is to try to keep his superiority trip going.  He hasn't made a valid point, personally attacks people who point out the flaws in his logic, fails to cite anything other than "because I say so," and is generally just not that smart of a guy.  He's only here to try to talk down anyone who blows holes in his story (Odie and DJ so far) like they teach at Daytop where the main therapeutic "tool" is humiliation.

Let's move on until Mr. Know-It-All brings some evidence for the nonsense he's promoting.  Evidence means everything, but his   personal attacks and speculation are transparent examples of how people who know nothing behave.  He's like a child.  I guess Daytop doesn't teach how to be a grown up.
Title: Honesty
Post by: odie on October 26, 2006, 08:31:34 AM
Honesty, if you have a moment of clear thinking today can you tell us what exactly your affiliation is or was with Daytop? I'm interested because I find it amusing that you now turn your attacks to DJ. He is the third person in this thread to identify themselves as a former employee of Daytop and you have chosen to accuse all three of us as being fired when that is far from the truth.
Title: Population increase
Post by: Troll Control on October 26, 2006, 08:50:46 AM
Unfortunately, that's the last refuge of those with no ability to articulate or support a rational, fact-based argument or position.  Watch any campaign commercial and you'll see what I mean.  

Next  :roll: "Honesty" :roll:  is going to be saying we "support providing the abortion pill to schoolgirls."
Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on October 26, 2006, 09:45:14 AM
Odie, You are correct. I did attack 3 separate individuals. I was inappropriate for doing so. I was angry. I assumed you were fired and based on what you say I was wrong. My affiliation was as an employee. I worked at Daytop for 13 or so years. As I stated before I did not agree with many things. I also did not feel I was treated fairly at some points. I chose to leave and pursue other things. This aside, the program did help many people. I know as you do that individuals were able to get clean and begin to lead a productive life. That's what is important. My only issue with most of the postings on this site is that both sides are not accurately portrayed. No the program does not work for some individuals, but it certainly does for others. That needs to be represented. The attacks are OK, but at least acknowledge the success. I read postings that portray only the negative. How about the individuals who are today clean and sober and being productive. Some want to say they did this despite Daytop. Totally incorrect. Yes, the individual was the one who changed. The program didn't. But the individual likely would not have unless they received guidance and support from the program. The intent of the agency is to help people. Amazingly they do. Not everyone but a lot of people. Instead of the Daytop bashing, give people other alternatives. If you so disagree with the Daytop program or the TC concept suggest something else or specific agencies that can help. I was asked to provide data and results. I did. No not specific to just Daytop, but the TC concept. Yes this can be dissected and anyone can find data that says the opposite. I also know as you do that Daytop has conducted numerous outcome studies. They show success, and Yes this can also be argued. Let's face it the program works. Not for everyone, but for some. That is what should be represented. Not lies and false statements. DJ, can quote whomever he/she wants. They can also claim whatever they want. But as soon as anyone argues the point they are either uneducated or mentally challenged and I have to argue that. Just because someone does not have a license or a advanced education does not mean they are less then anyone else. It's sad that someone who was allegedly helping people does not believe that they can change. In addition DJ never offers alternatives to help people. SO, I was wrong and I apologize for falsely accusing some individuals. The Truth is the gateway to freedom.
Title: Population increase
Post by: Troll Control on October 26, 2006, 09:58:06 AM
Quote
I also know as you do that Daytop has conducted numerous outcome studies.


Post the results or move on to the next topic.  Show evidence for your claims.  Your credibility is zero.  

First you slander poster after poster claiming they were "fired" that they're "angry" and "outdated."  The truth of the matter is that these things apply to you.  

You admit to projecting your anger on everyone else("puking" on them), admit you're angry and it wouldn't surprise me to know that it was actually you who had been fired.  Anyone who employs the Daytop methodology is necessarily "outdated"  (Synanon is dead and it's abusive  methods live on at Daytop.

So, stop projecting your own nonsense on others and support your (very, very weak) argument with data or be dismissed as a kook.
Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on November 08, 2006, 08:43:33 PM
says honesty,"You claim this and that, but have never proven anything. So lets start talking about the facts Mr.Dysfunction Junction. Anyone can make claims, You have to prove them and you have not. "

You assert that Daytop works.  You are a spokesperson for the object that is Daytop.  It is actually up to you to prove your side.  As a matter of fact, everybody else could just sit back and watch if they so chose, because they have no obligation to disprove efficacy of Daytop.  The obligation of proof is entirely on you.  You offer all your proof that the program is in fact efficient, and then discussion can begin from there.  First you have to prove it.  then y6ou have to defend your position against rational scrunity, and if you are not prepared to do this, you may as well just move on with your life.

0n a sidenote, I couldn't persanally care less, if you prove that some people find their sobriety through TC's or Daytop.

I would like to see you prove that Daytop is an overall benefit reguardless of whether a person continues to use drugs or not, to the majority of it's participants.

I would like to see it proven that a person leaves daytop with more honesty then they enterred, to steal from your name.

I would like to see it proven that people leave Daytop better off then they went in.

If it has an overall positive effect on it's participants, then it is good and to steal from Daytop terminology, valid.

If not, then it is bad and unnecessary.

I am not only interested in whatever benefits that may come from participating in a Daytop program, but also at what cost those benefits come.

Also, I would like to be told not what the principles of Daytop or a TC are, but why they work, and what their purpose is.  These explanations should either be sound and clearly logical, and obvious , so that anyone can understand them, or still sound and logical, but also backed by evidence.  

I would like to see this done without refraining to contradictions, mysterious dead end concepts, usage of words such as "babies", and dopefienes.  Everything should be backed with sound logic.  

You cannot do it, and this is because it is impossible to do.  I have seen counselors try a few times, 'til they would finally get too frustrated and go into emotional outbursts, and then attack the motive of the person who made the inquiry.

I say that the TC model is severly and disgustingly outdated, and your mind has to be knumb in quite a few places in order to practice it.

All the same anyone who wishes can join a TC or run around touting their benefits.  Hell you can build your own TC if you want, or jerk off to a statue of the monsignor.  None of it is of concern to me.  What bothers me is that teenager's are forcefully held in these places.  It would bother me to if adults were forcefull held in these places, but that does not happenned, as the rights of an adult are protected.

Later,
Paul St. Jophn
Title: wHAT A BUNCH OF NUTS
Post by: Anonymous on November 09, 2006, 11:27:10 PM
I have never seen so many people in need of therapy since i was a kid in daytop.  So miserable and sadly inappropriate.  i originally came to see about old friends and all i see is BS.  cut the crap grow up & find someone else to pick on punks, especially st john, u phony, learn how to spell, go back to school & therapy, you'd be better off, you are a fool. cut the crap & grow up u bunch of 5yr old babies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  In 1982 treatment sucked, but that was because i was a selfish punk, who needed to get a good ass kicking.  Treatment helped because it was better than jail or dying in the street, grow up & face the facts, there are many way worse places than DAYTOP, FOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLSSSS!!!!!!

Oh & by the way, I have a masters in social work, a license to practice social work, teach college and have over twenty years in the field.  Good luck jerks, go get laid or something!!
Title: Population increase
Post by: Troll Control on November 10, 2006, 06:12:45 AM
Quote
i was a selfish punk, who needed to get a good ass kicking.


and you still do.  inappropriateness?  spelling?  get laid?  jerks?

and you're a SOCIAL WORKER?  sure, buddy, sure.  you've been to as many college classes as my cat and you're probably not nearly as smart.

this poster is full of bologna (and probably crack and dope, too)!
Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on November 10, 2006, 02:49:08 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
Quote
i was a selfish punk, who needed to get a good ass kicking.

and you still do.  inappropriateness?  spelling?  get laid?  jerks?

and you're a SOCIAL WORKER?  sure, buddy, sure.  you've been to as many college classes as my cat and you're probably not nearly as smart.

this poster is full of bologna (and probably crack and dope, too)!
Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on November 13, 2006, 03:35:19 PM
who rattled your cage Paul?
Title: GO GET LAID
Post by: Anonymous on November 14, 2006, 08:51:58 PM
go get laid punk!
Title: plenty of dope & crack, what fool! You have injured me
Post by: Anonymous on November 14, 2006, 08:59:13 PM
sure. you've been to as many college classes as my cat and you're probably not nearly as smart.


Your cat was quite interesting, as for you get a life.  Is this what you have become, a hateful, small minded person?

Do this social worker (LMSW) a favor, one favor: GO GET LAID/lay off daytop!  You're acting worse than the people you say you dislike.  What is it with you, were you raped in daytop? please share.. It sounds like you did not make it to me, are really better than them? :exclaim: Give us a break, grow-up!  Go back to treatment, and if you weren't there than you should know, you really need........SEE YA
Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on November 15, 2006, 06:37:31 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
who rattled your cage Paul?



Nobody as of yet.  lol

I have not yet responded to 82
Title: I'll learn to spell when you learn to use 'Caps" proper
Post by: Anonymous on November 15, 2006, 07:07:33 PM
Okay.. Lets look at this post, although little here is even worth response:



Quote from: ""EIGHTY 2""
I have never seen so many people in need of therapy since i was a kid in daytop. So miserable and sadly inappropriate.  

 You say that the posters here are miserable.  What leads you to this conclusion?

You also say that the posters here are "sadly inappropriate". (lol)

Inappropriate to what?  We are in a message board- not a Daytop facility.  What exactly do you consider appropriate as you go on calling people miserable and babies?  Can you give some examples of where we are so sadly innappropriate as opposed to your highly classful remarks?


i originally came to see about old friends and all i see is BS.



  cut the crap grow up & find someone else to pick on punks,


lol.. we are punks and you are foaming at the mouth right now, but somehow we are sadly innappropriate.  You are obviously still thinking in the terms of a Daytop model which decrees what is appropriate and what is okay, with no reflecting upon reality. In other words, your ideas are sadly out of context, and I truly do mean sadly

especially st john, u phony, learn how to spell, go back to school & therapy, you'd be better off, you are a fool.


 Oh goody !  I even get specail mention!  I know how to spell.  Most often,  I have very little time to write my posts.  I write them once, and in a mad hurry, and then post 'em.  I hope that most people can understand my posts reguardless of a mispelled word, or a word out of place.

You tell me " go back to therapy"..

You really are a dumbass, ain't ya?  Yup Daytop was great.  Therapy is a for all cure all, and we all need it as though it existed before humanity itself, as though it is an integral part of human existence.. just another way in which Daytop sucks everything out of a realitic context.  BTW, you have learned their trade well.


and your next almost random ranting, is that I am a fool.  Oh, that is great.  can you tell me how I am a fool, or why I am a fool?

or are you actually the fool?  I put this in the form of a question, but in actuality I know that you are a fool. :)  


 cut the crap & grow up u bunch of 5yr old babies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 You are on the right track!  Just yell that at me about 1,000 more times, and I think I will be cured, have a positive self-esteem, and never touch a drug so long as I live


 In 1982 treatment sucked, but that was because i was a selfish punk, who needed to get a good ass kicking.  


Sounds like an abused child who believes he's deserves his beatings.  Why not admit it here and now?  they crushed you.  They broke your spirit.  You didn t belive that when you went in there.  They convinced you of it.

and where you selfish or self interested?



Treatment helped because it was better than jail or dying in the street,

You seem to be saying that for everyone person who ever went into a Daytop facility, there were only three alternatives in life:

1) Daytop, or as you refer to it "treatment", or as I will refer to as "bad treatment"
2)Jail
3) Dying in the street

There could be no more false or ridiculous statement.  Hopefully you have enough of a brain left in your head that I do not need to explain this any further.



 grow up & face the facts, there are many way worse places than DAYTOP, FOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLSSSS!!!!!!


Sure there are.  So what?

Oh and please keep those exclamations of what we fools we all are coming.  i think that it is going to bring us all to positive growth experience very soon.  There is nothing like degrading comments to help the healing process.. Again, you have masterred their craft very well.  


Oh & by the way, I have a masters in social work, a license to practice social work, teach college and have over twenty years in the field

Oh and by the way, I don't give a shit.  Credentails don't do the job.  You wanna make points, make points, and then back them up.  A piece of paper on your wall does not make you any kind of all knowing athority to me, nor should it to anyone


.  Good luck jerks, go get laid or something!!

At least you are consistent.  You started the post out like a prick, and ended it on the same note


Paul St. John


Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on November 16, 2006, 04:01:48 PM
Good Day Mr. St. John,

   I claim the world is flat, elephants are pink, the holocaust never happened, I own the Brooklyn Bridge, and you are correct. Anyone can claim anything. Some have posted wild claims and we are supposed to accept this as fact. You can if you want. I argued and proved that Daytop and TC?s are effective. Research has been performed and the results were documented. That is what I was asked to do. Oh, yes you can find research that claims the opposite. The overall benefit is in the individuals who participated in the programs and are today productive individuals. Some have had set backs some have not. The principals are to be honest with yourself and others. Also take responsibility for your actions and decisions, Set goals and work towards accomplishing them, stay substance free, and try to help others. These are very logical and relevant. Many individuals who have posted on this site are the evidence of the programs success as well as there failure. You seem to enjoy lecturing to individuals about standards you set with regard to what is success. I have asked many people who have posted on this site to define success. No one has so I ask you to define it. In addition any individual who participates in treatment needs support and encouragement. MY argument is and has been that if people posting on this site disagree with the TC or Daytop programs then offer alternatives. I have yet to see anyone suggest a specific program or form of treatment. Again the issue is with alternatives. Daytop is one and they are effective in what they do. They have evolved and changed in many ways. This process of change is one that is ongoing. They are working to help people and that is what they are doing regardless of what you tend to spew in your postings. Why are you so negative and derogatory? Do you have some things you need to process? :roll:   :idea:  As for Eighty 8, don?t stop fighting for what you believe
 :flame:
Title: Population increase
Post by: Troll Control on November 16, 2006, 05:45:08 PM
Oh geez.  Now there's two of these dum-dums?  "Honesty" and "82" are two half-witted mouth-breathers.  It has nothing at all to do with Daytop.  They're just not very bright.  

"82" is a poser and a wanna-be.  He is not an LCSW.  He's not an L-anything.  He likes to pretend he is so that people who read his nonsensical (and oh-so-clinically-wrong) rants might give him a little more clout than they otherwise would or should.  But make no mistake; this guy has never seen the inside of an institution of higher learning.  

This is a simple story told exremely effectively by his abjectly poor impression of a professional with a degree.  He can't construct a sentence, much less a thought, in that drug-addled brain of his and yet he's attempting to pass himself off as intelligencia.  Riiiiight. "Honesty" has a bridge to sell you, "82."

What a couple of dopes.
Title: BEVERAGE BASE/Kool-aid
Post by: Anonymous on November 18, 2006, 01:03:29 AM
Your so deep! When I was drinking the purple beverage -base, (kool-aid) in the 80's, I watched sadly, as fools like you ran away.  Grow up & get help!  How can you be so stuck on promoting BS?

Here I sit alone & confused wondering what has happened, alone on this cold & unfeeling chair, asking myself why.......Please spare us the drama of cutting & pasting, I have to get to my GED class.

Eat some turkey & have fun, care about you/love ya! hows bout a reach out?
Title: Population increase
Post by: Troll Control on November 18, 2006, 07:52:46 AM
This guy is as sharp as a marble.
Title: Re: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on November 19, 2006, 04:17:43 PM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
Good Day Mr. St. John,


Good Day

   I claim the world is flat, elephants are pink, the holocaust never happened, I own the Brooklyn Bridge, and you are correct. Anyone can claim anything. Some have posted wild claims and we are supposed to accept this as fact. You can if you want. I argued and proved that Daytop and TC?s are effective. Research has been performed and the results were documented. That is what I was asked to do. Oh, yes you can find research that claims the opposite.

Okay, so in your own admission, we have coverred no ground yet, but you have a sloution to this, which is :



 The overall benefit is in the individuals who participated in the programs and are today productive individuals.

What I posed earlier is the idea that the program, in order to be considerred of value, should be of overall benefit to at least the majority of the individuals who have recieved the treatment model.  Do you agree here?  Cause to say that they overall benefit is in the productive individuals who made the program work is like saying put 100 people in a bad situation and if a few come out doing good, then it was an overall benefit, or as you phrased the few come out doing well contain the overall benefit.  It just doesn t sound like it makes any sense to me.  It may sound good at first glance, but I am not sure that it actually makes any sense?  Whatcha think?



 Some have had set backs some have not.



 The principals are to be honest with yourself and others. Also take responsibility for your actions and decisions, Set goals and work towards accomplishing them, stay substance free, and try to help others.


I did hear some of this in Daytop, but that's not really what was ever practiced.  One thing was said, and then contradicted almost moments later.  I can only speak from my own personal experience.  There really was no emphasis on self-honesty, because people were pften scared to say what they really felt or thought, and honesty without others, was not based on teaching a person reasons why this would be a good thing to do, but rather, was indoctrinated through a punishment/reward system, which I say is not growth, but rather molding, and an obstruction to growth.  I am trying to think and I really do not remeber much about setting goals either.  I do however remember people being told what their goals should be, and being told that they needed to work towards them, in order to no lo0nger be a dopefiene, and in order to be accepted.  There was a lot of guilt used in Daytop, and a lot of firts making a person feel bad for themselves, and then saying that Daytop had the solution to the problem that thye just created, and all you had to do was work hard towards applying such and such principles, none of which principles were the ones you mentioned. Helping others is a nice idea, but I am not so sure that it is necessarily a part of a treatment model.  Maybe I could be wrong about that, but either way, their type of help, was not the help I wanted from others, nor to give to others.  Their type of help was getting inside of someone's head and fucking with them, "For their own sake".  After enoiugh time in Daytop, all the member's began to take on a sort of omniscient attitude, learned from the counselors and senior members, which  and led them them to a conviction that they had some sort of specail knowledge that pressuposed reality, and that this specail knowledge allowed them to take wrong actions, for good results.  Hurting people does not actually hurting them, but moving up in the ranks of Daytop offerred, again a form of arrogance that detached from reality.  I am right because I say it, and therefore it must be right, because I have been through the daytop scene and have risen up and had growth therefore I am right.  they start to belive that their minds are not meant for thinking or identifying reality, but rather justifying and twisting, and they learn this from the counselors and higher members. they are finally sold on it, in order to avoid the painflu consequences, of not going along.  All of this is what sets the stage for them to think that thye can hurt somebody, and it is actually helping them, because they are above reality and society.  It is as much a cult as a cult can come.


On a secondary note, I was not asking you for your subjective idea of Daytop principles.  I was asking for their actual principles.. the ones that are consistently taught.  If you were a counselor, you should know them by the back of the hand.  I also asked for the treatment model.  I wonderred if you could define it.  I would hope so.  You parcticed it for over 13 years, which makes you an expert among experts.  I thin asked you if you can explain to me why it works.




 These are very logical and relevant.

 Many individuals who have posted on this site are the evidence of the programs success as well as there failure.

 Which is '82' an example of?

 You seem to enjoy lecturing to individuals about standards you set with regard to what is success. I have asked many people who have posted on this site to define success. No one has so I ask you to define it.


 Hmm..  I guess that I would say that success is the achievement of long-term through non-destructive means.  Of course, there are endless definitions that can fit under this.  It depends on the person.  What will make you happy?  


 In addition any individual who participates in treatment needs support and encouragement. MY argument is and has been that if people posting on this site disagree with the TC or Daytop programs then offer alternatives. I have yet to see anyone suggest a specific program or form of treatment. Again the issue is with alternatives.

 The issue is not with alternatives.  It never was.  The issue is waith Daytop.  I can offer alternatives.  they may work for some they may not, but again the issue is not alternatives.  If a new treatment for cancer comes out that actually kills people faster, I can state it and make it clear that this is the case, without first finding an actual cure for cancer.  It is a very silly statement you make about the issue being alternatives.  The name of this forum is 'Daytop Village', not 'daytop Village Alternatives'.


 Daytop is one and they are effective in what they do.

Daytop is an alternative to daytop?

Huh?



They have evolved and changed in many ways.

In order to continue to exist, they had to get rid of many of their more harsh methods.

 This process of change is one that is ongoing. They are working to help people and that is what they are doing regardless of what you tend to spew in your postings.

spew...spew...spew

I have no problem with them maintaining that stance, and continuing to do it, so long as they only help those that come to them looking for it.  

... and I feel sorry for those who do

Hopefully some will do research first, and maybe come upon this site and perhaps see my spewings, and the other spewings and rantings here, and by that would be making a mire educated and informed decision.  I thinnk that that is more helpful to people, then Daytop could ever be.





 Why are you so negative and derogatory? Do you have some things I want you to process? :roll:   :idea:

Huh?


Is this the part where you get frustrated.. lol :)  


 As for Eighty 8, don?t stop fighting for what you believe

He's not even making sense, and you know it.  He is making a fool of himself.  Why would you encourage him?  Is this a form of help too?

Paul St. John


 :flame:
Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on November 20, 2006, 09:18:55 AM
I see you have difficulty being open. You project your frustration. I have no issue debating the facts. I apologize for a typo in my last post, when I stated ?Why are you so negative and derogatory? Do you have some things I want you to process??   I wanted to say did you have some things you wanted to process. Yes the issue is alternatives. As you say and I agree people are welcome to not agree with or have continued poor thoughts of Daytop or any TC. Yes they should post them and explain why they feel this way. At the same time they have a responsibility to give alternatives. I don?t, nor does anyone else have to agree. I may not agree with someone?s recommendation, but that does not make it wrong. I have never claimed to be an expert. So please don?t put words in my mouth. I don?t think I have all the answers either. I do have an issue with posters making false statements. Daytop is not for everyone! Nobody has ever claimed this. Daytop is and has always been a voluntary program. Regardless of why someone chooses or was sent to Daytop they have the option to leave. They also must deal with the consequences the decision to leave. It?s not Daytop?s fault if those consequences are not good.

One thing was said, and then contradicted almost moments later. I can only speak from my own personal experience. There really was no emphasis on self-honesty, because people were pften scared to say what they really felt or thought, and honesty without others, was not based on teaching a person reasons why this would be a good thing to do, but rather, was indoctrinated through a punishment/reward system, which I say is not growth, but rather molding, and an obstruction to growth. I am trying to think and I really do not remeber much about setting goals either. I do however remember people being told what their goals should be, and being told that they needed to work towards them, in order to no lo0nger be a dopefiene, and in order to be accepted.

I?m sorry you missed the boat. Daytop always stressed the need for self- honesty and they still do. In order to be honest with yourself you may have to hear things you don?t like or that are difficult. If you gave in to your own fears that again is not Daytop?s fault. It is possible that at the time you were not ready to face the facts. As for Goals, Daytop did set goals for people and yes it was to get away from the dopefiene lifestyle. Once that was accomplished Daytop would encourage individuals to set and works towards whatever goals they set. At times individuals set un-realistic goals, and yes the staff would work with them to change these goals. It is not realistic for individuals to think that they can play for professional sports team if they can?t swing a bat or throw a ball. In addition it would be highly unlikely for a 40 year old male to get a contract for a professional sports team.

  What I posed earlier is the idea that the program, in order to be considerred of value, should be of overall benefit to at least the majority of the individuals who have recieved the treatment model. Do you agree here? Cause to say that they overall benefit is in the productive individuals who made the program work is like saying put 100 people in a bad situation and if a few come out doing good, then it was an overall benefit, or as you phrased the few come out doing well contain the overall benefit. It just doesn t sound like it makes any sense to me. It may sound good at first glance, but I am not sure that it actually makes any sense? Whatcha think?

This is a complex question. If an agency was getting referrals for heart patients and they are only equipped to deal with lung issues then the majority of the patients would fail in terms of positive outcomes. So the answer is not that easy. I do agree however that the majority of individuals sent to agency should benefit in some way. The problem I have and maybe you can answer it is How do you define success? It?s not easy. I don?t have an answer for it. I do believe that this is where the major debate comes in. But the fact is individuals do benefit from Daytop and the TC model.

As for Eighty 8, don?t stop fighting for what you believe

He's not even making sense, and you know it. He is making a fool of himself. Why would you encourage him? Is this a form of help too? He does make sense. You just don?t agree with him. That does not make him wrong.
Title: Re: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on November 21, 2006, 08:33:08 PM
Quote from: ""Honesty""
I see you have difficulty being open. You project your frustration.


How do you see this?  In other words, what are you talking about?  Honestly, what do you mean?

Anyhow, I don't see this as being about me.  




 I have no issue debating the facts. I apologize for a typo in my last post, when I stated ?Why are you so negative and derogatory? Do you have some things I want you to process??   I wanted to say did you have some things you wanted to process.

No need to aplogise.  As 82 has pointed out, I make many typos myself.


Yes the issue is alternatives.

No.  It isn't

As you say and I agree people are welcome to not agree with or have continued poor thoughts of Daytop or any TC. Yes they should post them and explain why they feel this way. At the same time they have a responsibility to give alternatives.

A responsibility to whom, and for what reason?   Here is a perfect alternative: "Don't go to Daytop"







I don?t, nor does anyone else have to agree. I may not agree with someone?s recommendation, but that does not make it wrong.


No.. It is simply wrong if it is wrong


 I have never claimed to be an expert. So please don?t put words in my mouth.

I am not putting words in your mouth.  I am stating ,myself, that you are an expert on the Daytop model of treatment, and if not, you should be.

If you are to counsel people through a certain paradigm, you should be an expert at it.  If you have been doing it for thirteen years, then you are a senior expert.  I asked you to define the Daytop model of treatment.  That is all.  You practiced it professionally.  you should at least know what it is .. No?




I don?t think I have all the answers either. I do have an issue with posters making false statements. Daytop is not for everyone! Nobody has ever claimed this. Daytop is and has always been a voluntary program. Regardless of why someone chooses or was sent to Daytop they have the option to leave. They also must deal with the consequences the decision to leave. It?s not Daytop?s fault if those consequences are not good.

I think I knew only a handful who wanted to be there

One thing was said, and then contradicted almost moments later. I can only speak from my own personal experience. There really was no emphasis on self-honesty, because people were pften scared to say what they really felt or thought, and honesty without others, was not based on teaching a person reasons why this would be a good thing to do, but rather, was indoctrinated through a punishment/reward system, which I say is not growth, but rather molding, and an obstruction to growth. I am trying to think and I really do not remeber much about setting goals either. I do however remember people being told what their goals should be, and being told that they needed to work towards them, in order to no lo0nger be a dopefiene, and in order to be accepted.

I?m sorry you missed the boat.

Myself and most others, I suppose

Daytop always stressed the need for self- honesty and they still do.

daytop ruined people.  There was very little self involved at all.  they showed you which parts of yourself were acceptable or not

In order to be honest with yourself you may have to hear things you don?t like or that are difficult.

Buddy, in my experience, you would hear hundreds of things from hundreds of different people each claiming to know what is going on inside, and each acting like a second rate psychologist and trying to sound smart.  they couldn't even get their stories straight.  

 If you gave in to your own fears that again is not Daytop?s fault.

I had fears then.  I have fears now.  I have never met a person who does not.  I can tell you this, though.  I gave in to my fears less then any person in the place at my time there.  The majority of the people there feared the program, feared the counselors, and feared the other participants.  That again is not my fault, so stop trying to turn shit around on me.  This is exactly what they did in Daytop.

 It is possible that at the time you were not ready to face the facts.

 Thinking about my Daytop experience, and what I seen there on a daily basis, it is hard for me to even beleive that I just read that statement


As for Goals, Daytop did set goals for people and yes it was to get away from the dopefiene lifestyle.

away from a dopefeine lifestyle and into a cult- like lifestyle

 Once that was accomplished Daytop would encourage individuals to set and works towards whatever goals they set. At times individuals set un-realistic goals, and yes the staff would work with them to change these goals. It is not realistic for individuals to think that they can play for professional sports team if they can?t swing a bat or throw a ball. In addition it would be highly unlikely for a 40 year old male to get a contract for a professional sports team.

  What I posed earlier is the idea that the program, in order to be considerred of value, should be of overall benefit to at least the majority of the individuals who have recieved the treatment model. Do you agree here? Cause to say that they overall benefit is in the productive individuals who made the program work is like saying put 100 people in a bad situation and if a few come out doing good, then it was an overall benefit, or as you phrased the few come out doing well contain the overall benefit. It just doesn t sound like it makes any sense to me. It may sound good at first glance, but I am not sure that it actually makes any sense? Whatcha think?

This is a complex question. If an agency was getting referrals for heart patients and they are only equipped to deal with lung issues then the majority of the patients would fail in terms of positive outcomes. So the answer is not that easy. I do agree however that the majority of individuals sent to agency should benefit in some way.

in an overall way?

The problem I have and maybe you can answer it is How do you define success? It?s not easy. I don?t have an answer for it.

You should come out a happier and saner person.  that is success, or at least just as happy and sane, but no longer with a drug problem

 I do believe that this is where the major debate comes in. But the fact is individuals do benefit from Daytop and the TC model.


I say that it is outdated, and harmful.  Perhaps, it could help some people maybe, but those would only be people coming from a very dark and destructive place.

As for Eighty 8, don?t stop fighting for what you believe

He's not even making sense, and you know it. He is making a fool of himself. Why would you encourage him? Is this a form of help too?


He does make sense. You just don?t agree with him. That does not make him wrong.

He's wrong because he is wrong.  Are you to agree with him that everyone here are fools, and babies, or that a person needs to lie and claim to be a psychologist with years experince just to get a point accross.  While he calls everybody else babies, his posts, for the most, read like a child's temper tantrum.


Paul St. John

Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on November 22, 2006, 01:20:29 AM
He's wrong because he is wrong. Are you to agree with him that everyone here are fools, and babies, or that a person needs to lie and claim to be a psychologist with years experince just to get a point accross. While he calls everybody else babies, his posts, for the most, read like a child's temper tantrum.

Your ranting & raving is very calm!  Yeah, ok who is drinking the cool-aid now.  You seem to sit for hours finding ways to rip people up.  Is this your web site?  Who are you to judge everyone?  Babies & fools can't let go of uncomfortable experiences, they sit with there finger up there ass crying.  Sound familiar.  The only reason why people challenge you is because your rude.  You doubt that I am a social worker, and..We're not in a group, your not one of my clients, your a miserable asshole that is demeaning, rude and a know it all!  You deserve to have people talk to you like shit, that's how you treat most of the people you reply to.  If I would have been pleasant & open to discussion, yet indifferent to your position or view would we be peers, or possibly friends, I doubt it.  Everyone who got something out of Daytop & changed there lives, drank the cool-aid right?  Only bad people like Daytop, right?  All people who went through daytop have little education, never left, are brainwashed, are involved in a cult, are evil, work at hurting people not helping them.....right?

Wrong!  

Go ahead now throw "your tantrum".
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on November 22, 2006, 02:05:52 PM
Paul, if that's really you I was just wondering why you aren't signing in and using the guest entrance?
Title: The Truth
Post by: Anonymous on November 22, 2006, 05:52:47 PM
SO, Odie You do still check in from time to time. I thought we lost you.  :P
Title: Re: BEVERAGE BASE/Kool-aid
Post by: Paul St. John on November 22, 2006, 07:55:52 PM
Quote from: ""Eighty 2""
Your so deep! When I was drinking the purple beverage -base, (kool-aid) in the 80's, I watched sadly, as fools like you ran away.  Grow up & get help!  How can you be so stuck on promoting BS?

Here I sit alone & confused wondering what has happened, alone on this cold & unfeeling chair, asking myself why.......Please spare us the drama of cutting & pasting, I have to get to my GED class.

Eat some turkey & have fun, care about you/love ya! hows bout a reach out?




I am assuming you are talking to me as per your reference to " cut and paste drama" (lol), but as I told you earlier,  You can be rest assured that I will always let you know when a response is coming from me.  the preceding post that your was in response to was not from me.

Paul St. John
Title: Population increase
Post by: Paul St. John on November 22, 2006, 08:38:53 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
He's wrong because he is wrong. Are you to agree with him that everyone here are fools, and babies, or that a person needs to lie and claim to be a psychologist with years experince just to get a point accross. While he calls everybody else babies, his posts, for the most, read like a child's temper tantrum.

Your ranting & raving is very calm!  Yeah, ok who is drinking the cool-aid now.





 LMAO!  I don't even know what you are talking about, nor have I ever said that you were at any point drinking kool-aid.  I don't even understand this consistent refernce to kool aid.  What does kool aid have to do with anything...


but Great Point!  :roll:  



 You seem to sit for hours finding ways to rip people up.

Lmao, again.  Sorry man.. I don't have that type of time, nor inclination.  I am simply a hell of a lot more intelligent then you, and don't like hurting people.  

  Is this your web site?  Who are you to judge everyone?


"Who are you to judge everyone?", says the man(and I use the term, "man" loosely) who has in one paragraph judged every single person who writes in this forum fools, and five year old babies, who need to get therapy, and go back to school.  this in spite that the majority of people here already have a far higher education level then you, and still we do not see it your way.  I judge you to be the type of person, that thinks that if he just does things that everyone else tells him or even that he may decide on his own, everything will be okay, and that all other parts of reality will fall away.  I would say that school and therapy would be to you what Jesus and the bible are to an extremist born again.

 Babies & fools can't let go of uncomfortable experiences, they sit with there finger up there ass crying.

 I think you met " 'their' ass .  See I am taking your advice and learning to spell.  

A person has a choice with what the do in life.  they can hold onto something  'til it kills them.  they can let it go.  they can also speak out about it.  My guess is that y0ou have more repressions about daytop then anyone here, and that you do not have the mentality to be aware of them.  Of course I could be wrong.




 Sound familiar.  The only reason why people challenge you is because your rude.  You doubt that I am a social worker, and..We're not in a group, your not one of my clients, your a miserable asshole that is demeaning, rude and a know it all!  You deserve to have people talk to you like shit, that's how you treat most of the people you reply to.  If I would have been pleasant & open to discussion, yet indifferent to your position or view would we be peers, or possibly friends, I doubt it.

thus far, 'honesty', and I have been carrying on a very civilized conversation.

And again, man, you have declared war on and insulted every single person who posts in this forum.

As you say that I am miserable, demeaning, rude, and a know it all, feel free to read anyone of YOUR posts.  there is absolutly no limits to the extent to which you are rude, demeaning, and a know it all, and to me that, I may add, projects misery.

I admit I am not perfect.  i know few who are, but you consistantly act like a dick, while 'honesty' eggs you on.  



 Everyone who got something out of Daytop & changed there lives, drank the cool-aid right?

Again, I have no clue what you are talking about.  I 've never known kool aid to be the determining factor ofanyone's life, and I guess I'm just not in on the inside joke. Personally, I don't think I could make much use of it anyway.

 Only bad people like Daytop, right?

I never actually said that.  I wonder if you are the guy, who wrote that post looking for friends, and got the response " whatever idiot"

If so, I did not write that, nor did I approve it.  


  All people who went through daytop have little education,

I never said that, either.  I honestly do not know where you are coming up with all of this.  there were many very well educated people in Daytop.  I do not consider that the issue.  Education is not a safeguard against anything necessarily.  As a matter of fact, the education system for youths, emphasises conformity in many ways, and often is one of the foot holds, that is used in Daytop to push the process further.   Religion is another. .. and I have also realised that the program works much better on Christains then on jews, which I guess makes sense, as it was designed by a monsignor


and just to go a bit further, I would like to state this, and hope that somebody actually gets it:

Reguardless of what a counselors intention may or may not be, Daytop utilises a person's pre-existing irrationalities, to get what they want, which whe the picture result is a good thing or not, can only make a person worse.  You cannot fix a problem by making it worse.  

I do not think that drugs are the problem.  I beleive that irrationalities are the problem, and hard core drug usage is one of the many manifestations of these irrationalities.  

I say that if the irrationalities are dealt with, the drug problem and most likely many other problems will fall away as a matter of course.  daytop does not think like this.  They beleive that their mission is so good and so important that any expediency is just as well.  After all without them we would end up dead, on the streets or in jail.

They utilise your irrationalities and deepen them.  they deepen and the root cause of the drug problem in order to get rid of it.  They use the same problems of the person that get them into drugs to get them off, but there will always be a negative side-effect worse then the original problem.  Every time!




 never left,

I never said this either, but it is sometimes true, metaphorically speaking


 are brainwashed,

often in a manner of speaking

are involved in a cult,

was previously involved in a place that can best be defined as a cult - yes.

are evil,

Occasionally.  

but generally speaking man.  I do not make a habit of attacking people who fall victim to daytop.  though I resented them at the time, massively.  i now usually lean more towards the side of feeling a bit bad for them

.. but now if they start attacking me, then yes i am looking to kick some ass back


 work at hurting people not helping them.....right?

unfortunatly "yes".  i am not saying that that is what all of them are attempting to do.  Some are doing their best according to the only philosophy they have.  It just doesn't work, because there philosophy is wrong, harmful, and destructive, because it has no regard whatsoever for reality.  It is more like a superstition.

Wrong!  

 "Wrong!"

Wow.  That's a great point.  You have me rethinking my whole outlook.  You may get a bit further, not just with me, but with anyone and anything, if you actually explained some of you conclusions, rather just exclaiming them like an emotional child.



Go ahead now throw "your tantrum".


  Consider it thrown

Paul St. John

 
Title: Population increase
Post by: Paul St. John on November 22, 2006, 08:40:46 PM
Quote from: ""odie""
Paul, if that's really you I was just wondering why you aren't signing in and using the guest entrance?


It's me Odie .. How are ya?
Title: Population increase
Post by: odie on November 27, 2006, 08:26:00 AM
I'm doing great Paul, the further I get away from that cesspool called Daytop the better I become. I just questioned if that was you posting or someone using your style of writing in here.
Title: Population increase
Post by: Anonymous on November 27, 2006, 08:37:47 PM
Quote from: ""odie""
I'm doing great Paul, the further I get away from that cesspool called Daytop the better I become.

-- Glad to hear it :)

 I just questioned if that was you posting or someone using your style of writing in here.

--LOL!  I hope that I am not so easily mimiced..

Peace,
Paul St. John

oh and this is me.  i just forget to sign in sometimes.
Title: READ THIS!
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 07:42:39 PM
Quote from: ""Guest""
The word from the higher ups is Daytop is in financial trouble. Intakes have thus increased and the ADU's poplation has nearly doubled. Anyone who has left (ran off) is replaced by sometimes two new residents within 24 hours. It's been this way for months now.



F*ck Daytop



YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT WHAT DAYTOP IS IN. IF YOU HAD HALF A BRAIN, THEN YOU WOULD KNOW THAT ALL THEIR CLINICAL STAFF WERE GIVEN HUGE RAISES. MAYBE YOU ARE THE ONE ON THE BALLS OF YOUR ASS!!!!
Title: Re: READ THIS!
Post by: Anonymous on October 03, 2007, 08:09:03 PM
Quote from: ""DaytopsBest""
Quote from: ""Guest""
The word from the higher ups is Daytop is in financial trouble. Intakes have thus increased and the ADU's poplation has nearly doubled. Anyone who has left (ran off) is replaced by sometimes two new residents within 24 hours. It's been this way for months now.



F*ck Daytop


YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT WHAT DAYTOP IS IN. IF YOU HAD HALF A BRAIN, THEN YOU WOULD KNOW THAT ALL THEIR CLINICAL STAFF WERE GIVEN HUGE RAISES. MAYBE YOU ARE THE ONE ON THE BALLS OF YOUR ASS!!!!



Daytop's best?  Yep.. That sounds about right :)

Paul
Title: Re: READ THIS!
Post by: odie on October 09, 2007, 01:56:35 PM
"YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT WHAT DAYTOP IS IN. IF YOU HAD HALF A BRAIN, THEN YOU WOULD KNOW THAT ALL THEIR CLINICAL STAFF WERE GIVEN HUGE RAISES. MAYBE YOU ARE THE ONE ON THE BALLS OF YOUR ASS!!!!"

Yep, I hear they make 12 bucks an hour now! Oh I wonder if this poor fool realizes that cost of living raises are put in all renewed contracts but Daytop hasn't passed it on in years. So what he thinks is a huge raise is really just the interest that Daytop has been taking in for years.