Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: The Monsters on January 22, 2008, 05:55:13 PM
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this is a collection of letters we have sent to vaarious PV staff, it is not complete and wont be for a while.
As of yet we have had no return emails which tells us they get the point.
This is a letter we send to Bob Pegler.
Hello Pegler It's time for a fireside chat with the children of the lost. We have been keeping in touch with Petty but he seems to have vanioshed from the PV web page which to us means he merely is in charge no longer. But since all of us have such fond memories of you and your ropes course, we decided to speak directly to you now seeing how you have been at the Village since it admitted it's first cursed child. We have been keeping up to date with the village's past activities and we must say it's quite disgusting how you found the decendants of the Jones family to try and make a photo op using the manipulation of our currantly incarserated brothers and sisters. Disgusting, but oh so typical of you PV lot. Always using anything you can to promote just how much sunshine dust comes out of your ass, just like the icre cream socials, and the activities such as the one where you have the children clean up the used needles and condoms and other garbage from the disgusting river your hellhole resides on, just like the pittiful excuse of a graduation you hold just yards away from where the boys do back breaking work in the dead of summer for little but generaly no reward, the parents day where you try to pass off the Village in a school night type fashion, just like everything about PV. A fake, ugly facade. Also how you, BOB, wrote that awful rendition of how to know what to believe of what the media says of RTC's and to "know the facts" as you so bluntly put it. The last thing any of you want ANY parental unit to know is the facts. Lets cut to the chase Pegler. We are growing tired of your lies and justifications as to what the Village is and does. We also noticed how you have been calling forth your little alumni spawn (who sadly are our brain addled brothers and sisters) to come forth and post on youtube how you saved their lives. How they all seem so chipper and cheery. But we can't help but notice how poor Abigail was not up there. Poor Abigail's life is in shambles and she is convinced she is a drug addict despite the fact SHE NEVER WAS ONE. She has since sold her soul and body to an old man for publishing benfits to sell her book. Thanks Bob, you really helped there, and don't be modest and not take the credit... thats ALL you baby. She even claims it to be you that saved her. We also are aware of another manipulated brother of ours doing your dirty work, Dan Shepps being on the PV pay roll. Some of us from the past members of the Hawk Clan remember him coming and visiting trying to promote just how much PV helped him. It obviously has, since he seems to get a check cut to him whenever he makes an appearence. We know Bob, more then you ever thought and we are willing to share it with the world when the time is right.Whats better is now we have help from former employees of various other institutions such as three springs. We are holding a very good hand right now, care to fold? Be alert Pegler. We past patients are starting to understand what you did to us was highly illegal not to mention unethical. Are you ready for the consquences of your actions? We held a group vote and we all voted tumbs up to your punishment WE are grouping together, WE want retribution for the pain and suffering you have caused. We cannot sleep at night Bob, we have nightmares of returning. We cannot live normal lives all thanks to you. We are bitter and hateful creatures, just what you taught us to be, just what you told us we were, while you restrained us, and tied us to beds, and told us we deserved to be raped and got what we asked for, that we were to be kept in cold square rooms and locked under ground, to piss in a picher, and to scrub our laundry in the dead of winter outside with washboards, and that our families did not want us, all this and more we remember. We were monsters, we were uncontrolable teenage monsters. And now we are uncontrolable adult monsters.
Monsters of your creation. We are not failures of treatment. We are monsters of treatment. Our numbers are far greater then that of your successful Alumni. We outrank the numbers of the "cured", we outspeak your lap dogs and show ponies.
We do not forgive, we do not foget.
Because none of us alone are more cruel and hateful then all of us together
Hugs and Kisses
The Monsters
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I like it. I like it alot. More than Pegler likes getting off with digging into detainees sexual issues.
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Hello Jibby. We are the children you as a program abused and used for financial gain. We are the incarnation of hatred and spite. Our purpose is to shut down the village permanantly and then to move on to others like it and punish thoes responsible for countless ruined lives. We are the Monsters. Our cries were silenced, our tears swept away, our anguish mocked and our opinions discarded. We were molded in to the disgusting vengeful creatures that you see before you by the methods and practices you performed upon us. We are the seeds that you once sowed, and now has begun the reaping. As you told us all for countless years "Take accountability for your actions". The time has come for you to start practicing what thy preach. We know from certain members of our ranks that you were once a S.T.U. Lackey. You rose through the various titles of scum only to become a big top scum bag. Your "therapy", your "psychiatry" is an industry of destrucion and ruin. Out of 100 children you get your hands on 2 come out "cured". Thoes are not good odds Jibby, did you think us other 98 would forget? Did you think the other 98 would forgive? We havent. We can no longer be analyzed by you disgraceful excuses for therapists anymore. We have evolved beyond that and we are no longer subjected to your mind warping tricks, you can't cut the phone conference when the truth spits out. We have learned that much that you did to us and forced us to do at the village is highly illegal and extremely unethical. We are watchng Jibby. ALL of you.
We never forgive, we never forget.
Because none of us alone are as cruel and hateful as all of us together.
Hugs and kisses
The Monsters
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Remember Us? The countless faces you chucked in to S.T.U. like bags of garbage? We remember YOU Todd. We remember every smart ass response you gave us when we said "how long will we be here" or "we want to go home". How you grinned your dopey toothful smile and mocked us for our confusion and fear. Our question Todd is would you have treated your children the way you treated us? Would you send YOUR children to Peninsula Village? It's so easy to fuck with other peoples children we simply assume you fuck with yours too. When they do something right do you tell them it was the bare damn minimum and nothing to be proud of? When they do something wrong do you tell them how they will never function in society and it's no wonder that they are so messed up in the head? We bet you don't.
We are watching Roberts. We wonder... did Petty tell you about the letters we sent him before he left? Has Bob spoken to you about the letter we sent him? Have any of your current employees mentioned how we have photos of them "partying" and commiting felonies? Enjoying some leasurely bondage after work when just hours previously they partook in restarining a girl for three hours?
You are a group of sick people Roberts
But we are sicker, we are more cruel, we are MONSTERS.
And you made us
Never Forgive, Never Forget
Because none of us alone are as cruel and hateful as all of us together.
Hugs and Kisses
The Monsters
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Out of 100 children you get your hands on 2 come out "cured". Thoes are not good odds Jibby, did you think us other 98 would forget? Did you think the other 98 would forgive? We haven’t…
A little curious, did you measure these results or is this just a figure of speech? Not a very good track record if that is an accurate outcome.
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ah yes the who, we have been expecting you.
It IS a figure of speech.
However if you were to take 100 kids who went to PV randomly
chances are only 2 will have claimed it "saved them"
Thats not based on statistics, thats based on reality.
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ah yes the who, we have been expecting you.
It IS a figure of speech.
However if you were to take 100 kids who went to PV randomly
chances are only 2 will have claimed it "saved them"
Thats not based on statistics, thats based on reality.
Well you contradicted yourself. If you selected 100 kids at random and measured the results then you would have data to support your claim. But we dont know because this was never done. You claim "On a gut feel" that 98% dont do well.
Just wanted to clear that up..other than that the letters look good TM.
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no, we know because WE ARE over 100 kids.
We share this name and take shifts monitering it as our shedules allow.
there is no guess work here.
WE are the numbers we spoke of.
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no, we know because WE ARE over 100 kids.
We share this name and take shifts monitering it as our shedules allow.
there is no guess work here.
WE are the numbers we spoke of.
so you are over 100 people...thats really nice and seems to be working well for you.... if I took 100 kids "at random" from PV we may find that 98 did well and 2 were not helped by it at all. Since this hasnt been done yet we just dont know at this point.
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ah yes who, leave it to you to try to discredit anything that is said. Frankly you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to how many of us truly despise PV. Your "passive agressive" tactics do not work on us. We learned long ago to pretty much ignore you type of people who try to make us feel as if we are wrong or just children. Save it for the kids still in your hellholish excuse for theraputic practices.
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ah yes who, leave it to you to try to discredit anything that is said. Frankly you dont know your ass from a hole in the ground when it comes to how many of us truly despise PV. Your "passive agressive" tactics do not work on us. We learned long ago to pretty much ignore you type of people who try to make us feel as if we are wrong or just children. Save it for the kids still in your hellholish excuse for theraputic practices.
Flip it around (just for grins)... if someone came along and stated that 98% of the kids going thru PV did very well I think many here would be looking for some type of study to back that up. If this was said of any school we would all be trying to get our head into it a little ....looking at how the data was collected and structured before we bought into it or disregarded it.
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first of all, PV is not a school. Secondly if it WAS the other way around and PV DID have a success rate of 98 kids out of 100 none of us would be here demanding the Head of Bob Pegler. So that statement is fucking irrelevent.
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first of all, PV is not a school. Secondly if it WAS the other way around and PV DID have a success rate of 98 kids out of 100 none of us would be here demanding the Head of Bob Pegler. So that statement is fucking irrelevent.
Of course you would!! you would still be here if you were part of the 2%. People do it all the time. You dont need to be part of the majority to kick up some dust and make a difference!
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no who, even if thoes 2 percent were not happy. They would not want to tear the place down so badly... Sure they would hate it... but not have enough desire to fully see it crumble.
because some of us have been to other centers before and after PV that we hated simply because we were stuck there, but we have no real desire to get rid of thoes ones or get revenge on past and present staff members... and why? because they do not folow the same practices that PV, and Three srpings, and Traqnuility Bay, and Island View, and Provo Canyon, and Oakly, and Fast Forward, or Aspen, or anything LIKE thoes programs do.
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The Monsters is right on.
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no who, even if thoes 2 percent were not happy. They would not want to tear the place down so badly... Sure they would hate it... but not have enough desire to fully see it crumble.
because some of us have been to other centers before and after PV that we hated simply because we were stuck there, but we have no real desire to get rid of thoes ones or get revenge on past and present staff members... and why? because they do not folow the same practices that PV, and Three srpings, and Traqnuility Bay, and Island View, and Provo Canyon, and Oakly, and Fast Forward, or Aspen, or anything LIKE thoes programs do.
My point is that you will not hate the place any more or less because you happen to be part of the majority. If only 2% of the kids hated it (yourself being part of the 2%). You wouldn’t hate it any more or less because you are in the minority. You hate it because of what happened to you and others not based on the outcome of a statistical study that was never done.
So you are pissed and many others are pissed also and you call yourselves “TheMonsters”.. that we do know. What we don’t know is what portion of all the graduates do you represent. 98% or 2%... probably somewhere in between would be my guess. But until a study is done we wont know for sure.
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what you fail to understand who is that up until very recently the reason no one has spoke out against the village is because so many kids who went thought nothing would come of it. PV has been open since 86 and so many kids that go think that after they get out there is nothing they can do to get peace. nd thats what the village banks on. Thats partly why they work so hard to break down our self confidence so that should we ever even THINK of what was done to us being wrong we would be too spineless and weak to even do anything. It's a power move. But the reality is more of us hate PV then like it. And now thst more info is coming to the lime light people will and ARE noticing the incredibly inhumane things places lik PV are doing. Times are changing and as such so are our perceptions as past residents. We are not weak and scared any more.
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what you fail to understand who is that up until very recently the reason no one has spoke out against the village is because so many kids who went thought nothing would come of it. PV has been open since 86 and so many kids that go think that after they get out there is nothing they can do to get peace. nd thats what the village banks on. Thats partly why they work so hard to break down our self confidence so that should we ever even THINK of what was done to us being wrong we would be too spineless and weak to even do anything. It's a power move. But the reality is more of us hate PV then like it. And now thst more info is coming to the lime light people will and ARE noticing the incredibly inhumane things places lik PV are doing. Times are changing and as such so are our perceptions as past residents. We are not weak and scared any more.
Thats great and you may be right. I am not arguing from any position..... I am always curious when people throw out statisitcs and I have a personal need to understand where the data is formed from.
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as you being a person that has been known quite simply to make shit up... questioning a fairly reasonable "statistic" is not something you should be doing.
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From what I've read about PV, the place sounds like a horrible place for kids to be.
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as you being a person that has been known quite simply to make shit up... questioning a fairly reasonable "statistic" is not something you should be doing.
I think you just put yourself into the category (not I). Unless you back up the 98% statistic with a study. Then it seems you are the one making things up.
Shouldnt point fingers unless you got all your ducks in a row. (or some such saying!!).
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Do we need studies for everything?
Give me some first-hand accounts any day.
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the saying goes, "when you point a finger at someone you have three others pointing back"
And no, we ARE the number. Which you continuously continue to ignore for whatever purpose that may be.
You have claimed to be the parent of a "survivor" or something along thoes lines and we have heard other stories as well.
We don't know who you truly are, we don't know what your true motive is, but we know you are an enemy and you will be treated as such. To us you are no better then the current PV staff restraining a child as we speak.
Do not expect civil responses from us and do not expect us to be reasonable to you. In all actuality of things WE do not need to show YOU any type of proof. The law and the public need to know these things and they shall. You are a one trick pony trying to make things as difficult as you can by opening your mouth to spout off about nothing in particular. Nothing you say matters to us because you have made your stance. And your stance is in defense of these programs. No matter how many times you tell us these programs are a positive method we will not listen because it's not true, just like no matter how many times you tell a pickle it's a bicycle... it's still a fucking pickle.
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the saying goes, "when you point a finger at someone you have three others pointing back"
And no, we ARE the number. Which you continuously continue to ignore for whatever purpose that may be.
You have claimed to be the parent of a "survivor" or something along thoes lines and we have heard other stories as well.
We don't know who you truly are, we don't know what your true motive is, but we know you are an enemy and you will be treated as such. To us you are no better then the current PV staff restraining a child as we speak.
Do not expect civil responses from us and do not expect us to be reasonable to you. In all actuality of things WE do not need to show YOU any type of proof. The law and the public need to know these things and they shall. You are a one trick pony trying to make things as difficult as you can by opening your mouth to spout off about nothing in particular. Nothing you say matters to us because you have made your stance. And your stance is in defense of these programs. No matter how many times you tell us these programs are a positive method we will not listen because it's not true, just like no matter how many times you tell a pickle it's a bicycle... it's still a fucking pickle.
I am speaking on behalf of some the readers. There are many who claim they were helped by TBS's and others who say they were not. When someone mentions a specific success rate, of say 98%, then that typically indicates a measurement of some type has taken place.
Many readers, like myself, would be curious as to where you got that statistic from, so I posed the question myself.
I believe in exposing abusive and corrupt programs as well as giving credit to those who do well. But I also believe we should be factual and accurate with our accusations.
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as we said before, your opinion no longer matters.
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as we said before, your opinion no longer matters.
That is of no concern to me......I am not wild about yours either, but there are many other readers to consider.
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as we said before , you opinion no longer matters.
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as we said before , you opinion no longer matters.
98% of the readers disagree with you...
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as we said before , you opinion no longer matters.
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as we said before , you opinion no longer matters.
Tap, Tap, Tap.... you seem to be stuck. Send in one of the others.
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we figured you repeat your bullshit so often despite none of us caring so we decided to try the same route you do.
as we said before , you opinion no longer matters.
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we figured you repeat your bullshit so often despite none of us caring so we decided to try the same route you do.
as we said before , you opinion no longer matters.
Tap,Tap,Tap.... another defective one from the collective...... send in one more. Try selecting one from the 2% field.
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who, no one cares. You try to manipulate parents in to thinking it is ok to send kids to RTC's... It's not. They come here seeking answers, and so they shall get them. Maybe not to your liking but thats what you get when you fuck over hundreds of kids over a course of 12 years. Parents should stop sending children to RTC's and maybe try something called parenting. There was a time before RTC's for kids and things seemed fine then.
No one HERE, NOT ELSE WHERE BUT HERE. Cares nor wants your opinions soley because you back up these institutions. Go away.
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who, no one cares. You try to manipulate parents in to thinking it is ok to send kids to RTC's... It's not. They come here seeking answers, and so they shall get them. Maybe not to your liking but thats what you get when you fuck over hundreds of kids over a course of 12 years. Parents should stop sending children to RTC's and maybe try something called parenting. There was a time before RTC's for kids and things seemed fine then.
No one HERE, NOT ELSE WHERE BUT HERE. Cares nor wants your opinions soley because you back up these institutions. Go away.
Thats where you lose "The Monsters"...you think you are going to get parents to listen to you, but you cannot relate. Either you are not a parent yourself or have never been in a position of having to find help for a child in trouble. You can have fun spreading hatred towards PV and relating to other survivors, but you will never catch the ear of a parent. You ridicule and put them down... I dont, I understand how they feel... I have been there and can translate most of the crap you read here, you cant.
Focus on getting PV!! The parents dont want to hear your crap, I'll handle them.
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ha ha ha ha, WE are wrong? There have been numerous parents on ths site alone that said they had NO clue what was going on and/ or the practices were horrific.
Many of OUR parents also claimed they had no clue what was going on, one of our numbers was put on medication without their parents consent and nearly all thought PV was a "nice place" from the exterior.
Some of us HAVE children now. We're not all 17 years old like you obviously think we are and we can tell you we would never send our kids to an RTC. Chances are some of us are around your age. Keep in mind the village was opened in 86.
Don't tell us we do not have the perspective because obviously it is you how has never been to a program and delt with the obligations that go with it.
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ha ha ha ha, WE are wrong?
Yes you are. Stay focused on PV. You have no experience with parenting.
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thank you guest, duley noted, and ignored.
Like we said, some of us ARE parents and are still smart enough to figure out you don't send your kid to jail simply because YOU don't know what to do.
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We need studies.
Study 1.
How many TBS staff members are underpaid and underqualified.
Answer - the majority.
Study 2.
How many detrimental TBS staff members incestuosly move between schools and start new schools.
Answer - plenty.
Study 3.
How many TBS's acknowledge their "for-profit" existence and the degree to which they have much in common with Scientology.
Answer- None of them.
Study 4.
How come no one within the TBS industry has ever attempted to:
- created an independent regulatory committe to keep the industry in check
- make practices transparent
- preserve civil liberties of teens
- held individuals and programs accountable for their crimes and unethical behavior
- publicly acknowledged the widespread use of cult based practices including:
- secrecy
- no communication with outside
- blind faith
- fear mongering (your child will die without this program)
- Made an effort to acknowledge or help kids abused by the industry
Answer - no one ever kills the goose that lays the golden eggs.
All of the memebers of The 3rd Reich were just in their cause until eveyone called bullshit
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I am a mother of two teenagers and I do listen. I searched the internet for answers (my 15 year DD is driving me crazy at the moment) and I found this site. I cannot stop reading - this is so horrible, what I read...I am desperate, but I would never ever send her away...my god, how could I?!? I sincerely hope, she will overcome this rebelious stage of her life, she will find her way - all the love I gave her in the previous years must be somewhere hidden deep in her heart..
As a parent, I cannot understand - why would anybody understand her needs better? Why would she be better far away from home? What a crazy idea?!? Let my daughter be restrained ?! by total strangers?!? What a crazy world we are living at..(sorry, excuse my English).
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Well Marie, ask people like The who and they would say it's the best thing he ever did.
To the children that end up going.... jail is more preferable.
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I am a mother of two teenagers and I do listen. I searched the internet for answers (my 15 year DD is driving me crazy at the moment) and I found this site. I cannot stop reading - this is so horrible, what I read...I am desperate, but I would never ever send her away...my god, how could I?!? I sincerely hope, she will overcome this rebelious stage of her life, she will find her way - all the love I gave her in the previous years must be somewhere hidden deep in her heart..
As a parent, I cannot understand - why would anybody understand her needs better? Why would she be better far away from home? What a crazy idea?!? Let my daughter be restrained ?! by total strangers?!? What a crazy world we are living at..(sorry, excuse my English).
Good luck Marie. Trying to work things out at home is the best option (keep working at it). But each situation is different. Some family issues cannot be resolved through local services and the parents need to get their children help outside of their area.
It is important that parents do their homework and not choose a solution which will put their child in harms way.
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Study 1.
How many TBS staff members are underpaid and underqualified.
Answer – The latest information available shows that approximately 28% of the Staff members are considered underpaid by their peers and people who hold similar positions outside the industry.
The qualifications of Staff within the industry has steadily risen over the past 2 decades. 20 years ago 30% were considered under qualified and the number has dropped below 8% based on numbers from 2006.
Study 2.
How many detrimental TBS staff members incestuosly move between schools and start new schools.
Answer – New schools are typically opened by people who have had experience from working in other schools. Over 90% of all businesses started were started by people who had previous experience in the field via working for someone else.
If you look at the public sector you will see that school teachers (as an example) will move from one school to another when moving to a different area because it is what they are trained to do. If you took a snap shot of the teaching industry you would see that an extreme minority of teachers leave a teaching position for another profession unless they had either furthered their education themselves or went into business with another family member. Most people move around within the same industry.
Study 3.
How many TBS's acknowledge their "for-profit" existence
They all do (by law). You need to take a look at their tax returns. This is something that all companies file for. Sometimes they advertise that they are “Non-profit” other times they do not depending on their marketing strategy and business model.
and the degree to which they have much in common with Scientology.
I have not seen this nor understand how this information would be presented if a school is affiliated with scientology.
Study 4.
How come no one within the TBS industry has ever attempted to:
- created an independent regulatory committe to keep the industry in check
There have been numerous attempts to set up an effective committee but agreements across the board kept the committee from fully forming each time. The automotive industry tried and failed several times to self regulate. What typically happens is the government steps in and sets the terms for regulation.
- make practices transparent
Most are
preserve civil liberties of teens
The schools that I am aware of preserve all civil liberties.
held individuals and programs accountable for their crimes and unethical behavior
Since the industry is unregulated, this falls on the individual schools to report crimes and behavior by their staff. Although, based on what we are seeing in the public sector (public schools) regulation, when imposed, will not make a huge effect in this area.
publicly acknowledged the widespread use of cult based practices including:
- secrecy
- no communication with outside
- blind faith
- fear mongering (your child will die without this program)
If a place is a cult, they are not going to advertise it as such. Most cults (or those considered cults by outsiders) will reject the labeling because of its negative stigmatism, so you will not see acknowledgement in this area. Most parents that I have spoken to would reject this type of environment for their children, this typically takes more commitment and energy than most families have to give.
Made an effort to acknowledge or help kids abused by the industry
This is more of a result of our society than anything else. The legal system has mucked things up so much that a person cant even apologize to another person anymore for mistakes made.
If someone slips and falls in your driveway…. “You cant call them to apologize anymore because that show admittance of guilt or negligence and could be used against you if they sue you (which too many do now a days)."
If Ford motor company wrote you a letter saying they were sorry for selling you a lemon their intention would be good in acknowledging their mistake but the letter could be used in court to sue them for millions. So it simply isn’t done.
All of the memebers of The 3rd Reich were just in their cause until eveyone called bullshit
No one really cared what they did as long as they kept it in Germany. They screwed up by trying to spread their evil too quickly.
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Shmoo, I think your comments would be better appreciated on the "Blonde Bo Peep Big Tits" thread. Keep your spam where it belongs, with the other bottom-feeding scum.
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100 letters, sent to one man, the right man, might be a very good start. I challenge you all to write Mr. Gregory Kutz a letter. Detail your experiences at the program/facility you were each in. Tell him of the abuses you each suffered. Tell him the names of the staff who meted out these abuses, the directors, anyone who turned a blind eye. The time has come to make our voices heard.
Gregory D. Kutz
Managing Director Forensic Audits and Special Investigations
U.S. Government Accountability Office
441 G Street NW, Room LM
Washington, D.C. 20548
202-512-6722
[email protected]
Thanks,
~hurrikayne
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100 letters, sent to one man, the right man, might be a very good start. I challenge you all to write Mr. Gregory Kutz a letter. Detail your experiences at the program/facility you were each in. Tell him of the abuses you each suffered. Tell him the names of the staff who meted out these abuses, the directors, anyone who turned a blind eye. The time has come to make our voices heard.
Gregory D. Kutz
Managing Director Forensic Audits and Special Investigations
U.S. Government Accountability Office
441 G Street NW, Room LM
Washington, D.C. 20548
202-512-6722
[email protected]
Thanks,
~hurrikayne
There you go !! Thats what I am talking about. Its time to name names and put the blame squarely on those who abused. The phrase "The whole industry is at fault" is getting old, doesnt work and lacks credibility....
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they call you names because you are a petualant prat.
wake up who you are filled with granduer, you portray your self as some kind of bloody saint and constantly tell kids that went through hell and high water at these centers that they never did.
To people like us getting told "you never went" is like telling a purple heart, congressional medel of honor awarded soldier from vietnam that he had no corage and left his freinds to die. It's insulting and fucking bogus and not for a person LIKE YOU regeardless of what ever ties you have to the industry to be saying.
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they call you names because you are a petualant prat.
wake up who you are filled with granduer, you portray your self as some kind of bloody saint and constantly tell kids that went through hell and high water at these centers that they never did.
To people like us getting told "you never went" is like telling a purple heart, congressional medel of honor awarded soldier from vietnam that he had no corage and left his freinds to die. It's insulting and fucking bogus and not for a person LIKE YOU regeardless of what ever ties you have to the industry to be saying.
You must be confusing me with someone else. Do you have a link to the post where I said that?
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um, yes actualy... one of our members claimed you one said it to them as a guest once, as did dish duty, and a variety of other people. Just because YOU like to forget the bullshit that excrements from your mouth does not mean WE do.
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um, yes actualy... one of our members claimed you one said it to them as a guest once, as did dish duty, and a variety of other people. Just because YOU like to forget the bullshit that excrements from your mouth does not mean WE do.
Thats the problem with memberships you never can rely on everyone to be honest, a few bad ones can leave the rest hanging. Try standing up for yourselve once in awhile, see what it like.
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so you discredit what one of our own claims?
sorry who but we have found that you cannot be trusted at all.
because u can't remember it or don't want to remember it, or think it never happened DOES NOT MEAN THATS HOW IT WENT DOWN.
You paint yourself to be an innocent victim of circumstance.
Regardless if you truly are a parent who had no clue how to raise a child with out someone their to force them in to obedience or simply a person who fishes parents in to sending their kids away... your still a schmuck.
Your a schmuck for having a kid and paying someone to fuck with it and/or you are a schmuck for trying to convince other parents to send them away because they dont know how to be a parent.
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Nice try.
The reason the who claims he never said this is because the who is a revolving door of corporate slaves from Aspen and they don't have the combined brainpower to talk their way out of a paper bag.
http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?topic=24456.15 (http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?topic=24456.15)
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See the text in red for accuasation specific material.
Christmas
« Reply #118 on: December 18, 2007, 08:30:50 AM » Quote Modify Remove
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Damage Control Soldier
1. You’rere an odd bird. You’rere a fornits junkie and claim to be a ASR parent. The time spent here would indicate that you’rere financially vested in the TBS industry. Either way you’rere spinning your wheels here.
2. You frequently tell people to read up and do research. Until you do research on the long term effects of these places you’reve got no right to open your mouth. You want to open your mouth No thanks, not here. Go find your own sandbox where you can play Dr. Phil with all your other Oprah watching, can’ret think for themselves drones.
3. You best take your jabs. You asked for em you get em. For you to promote TBS’res and not spend any of your time addressing the long-term effects damage (intentional or unintentional) of the industry is laughable. Your digging your own grave “ don’ret put it on us.
4. For the family with 1 ˜bad kid’re out of 5 ? There are plenty of better options than a TBS. Do you know where the special Olympics came from? Kennedy guilt. They sent the bad apple Kennedy sister to the ward and they lobotomized her. They don’ret sleep well at night because they drank the lobotomy kool aid back then and finally realized it was wrong. One day you will realize this TBS shit is just as wrong.
Christmas
« Reply #119 on: December 18, 2007, 09:03:40 AM » Quote
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Quote from: "dishdutyfugitive"
Damage Control Soldier
1. You’rere an odd bird. You’rere a fornits junkie and claim to be a ASR parent. The time spent here would indicate that you’rere financially vested in the TBS industry. Either way you’rere spinning your wheels here.
You claim to be a person who attended a program and if you cannot recognize that the industry is improving everyday then I believe you are spinning your wheels.
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2. You frequently tell people to read up and do research. Until you do research on the long term effects of these places you’reve got no right to open your mouth. You want to open your mouth No thanks, not here. Go find your own sandbox where you can play Dr. Phil with all your other Oprah watching, can’ret think for themselves drones.
I am living the long term effects, my daughter is an example of the long term effects. It appears you are the one who has not kept up with the industry.
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3. You best take your jabs. You asked for em you get em. For you to promote TBS’res and not spend any of your time addressing the long-term effects damage (intentional or unintentional) of the industry is laughable. Your digging your own grave “ don’ret put it on us.
Nah, not my style to name call. I have on occasion but its not pretty. Someday you will wake up and see that TBS’res are the answer that many kids need. Stop living in the past and look at some of the models of the future.
Sure we could all be blinded like you. I could point to a car accident along the highway and say œSee, car safety hasn’ret improved in 50 years
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Here you go Dish. This is a better copy and I added the link.
If you are going to go around disrespecting people you should be prepared to get a little back your way without belly aching.
Here we go again with the www.myhondasucks.com (http://www.myhondasucks.com)
I claim to be a CEDU grad? I'll smack you upside the dome with my 2x2x1 graduation scrapbook you brownshirt.
You’re a fornits junkie and claim to be a ASR parent.
Thanks for the enlightening discourse. I've wasted my last breath with you.
I claim to be an ASR parent? … you ingrate…you dare to question me, my man!! Why, Why I will strangle you within inches of your life with my ASR scarf... I will saddle you with the task of reading thousands of thank you letters from former students….. You are a shockingly backward rapscallion ....you will be forced to choose from the ASR Vegan menu for 1 week……. You are an unconscionably ill-mannered barbarian , and a dastardly, foul-smelling festering boil on the butt of humanity….I shall personally see to it that you are tasked with dispensing the popcorn during movie night, and you shall endure a personal bag without butter!!! …. You are nothing but a whoreson mandrake…..I will hire an escort service to forcibly take you into town to shop at the mall.
Dam you, you bootless swag-bellied flap-dragon………I shall alter your self esteem utilizing my handy flint and limestone… Thou caluminous folly-fallen clack-dish!....I will brow beat you with endless photos of children attending the college of their choice…. You are a conspicuously incorrigible pervert and a catatonic, gossip-mongering offense to all of good taste and decency. ….. I shall personally force you to swim laps in the ASR pool, with the filter turned off!!....
You are buttock-rimming proof that evolution can go in reverse. ….I will seat you at the bow during ASR’s white water rafting trip….. all You men! You beasts! That quench the fire of your pernicious rage!" I will force thee to wax your own skis.
http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=3vh41iqvbib67laa310i2lu2p0&topic=24456.msg301507#msg301507 (http://http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=3vh41iqvbib67laa310i2lu2p0&topic=24456.msg301507#msg301507)
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THe reason I get so agitated with Whooligan is because it appears to me that he likes to make every thread surround him. One way or another he becomes the subject when frankly I dont give a shit. I care about the cause here. The cause of ending institutionla child abuse. Im sickened more so by the fact that he thinks of himself as to be superior and far more important than the victims. Not only is it pure self indulgence, but it makes me fucking sick. THATS WHY. Thats my opinion. For a man to think that his "fame on fornits" is far more important, than the kids suffering, whom have suffered, and who are still suffering or no longer alive because of the scum sucking Troubled Teen Industry is damn repulsive. Maybe if when you (WHO) become one who has been victimized so severely, then come post and become fuckin famous or whatever it is you want, until then, draw your needed attention somewhere else.
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Here you go Dish. This is a better copy and I added the link.
If you are going to go around disrespecting people you should be prepared to get a little back your way without belly aching.
Here we go again with the www.myhondasucks.com (http://www.myhondasucks.com)
I claim to be a CEDU grad? I'll smack you upside the dome with my 2x2x1 graduation scrapbook you brownshirt.
You’re a fornits junkie and claim to be a ASR parent.
Thanks for the enlightening discourse. I've wasted my last breath with you.
I claim to be an ASR parent? … you ingrate…you dare to question me, my man!! Why, Why I will strangle you within inches of your life with my ASR scarf... I will saddle you with the task of reading thousands of thank you letters from former students….. You are a shockingly backward rapscallion ....you will be forced to choose from the ASR Vegan menu for 1 week……. You are an unconscionably ill-mannered barbarian , and a dastardly, foul-smelling festering boil on the butt of humanity….I shall personally see to it that you are tasked with dispensing the popcorn during movie night, and you shall endure a personal bag without butter!!! …. You are nothing but a whoreson mandrake…..I will hire an escort service to forcibly take you into town to shop at the mall.
Dam you, you bootless swag-bellied flap-dragon………I shall alter your self esteem utilizing my handy flint and limestone… Thou caluminous folly-fallen clack-dish!....I will brow beat you with endless photos of children attending the college of their choice…. You are a conspicuously incorrigible pervert and a catatonic, gossip-mongering offense to all of good taste and decency. ….. I shall personally force you to swim laps in the ASR pool, with the filter turned off!!....
You are buttock-rimming proof that evolution can go in reverse. ….I will seat you at the bow during ASR’s white water rafting trip….. all You men! You beasts! That quench the fire of your pernicious rage!" I will force thee to wax your own skis.
http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=3vh41iqvbib67laa310i2lu2p0&topic=24456.msg301507#msg301507 (http://http://fornits.com/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=3vh41iqvbib67laa310i2lu2p0&topic=24456.msg301507#msg301507)
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LOL are you british? You sound a little like my uncle Skimmy. You make my day Mr. Who
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THe reason I get so agitated with Whooligan is because it appears to me that he likes to make every thread surround him. One way or another he becomes the subject when frankly I dont give a shit. I care about the cause here. The cause of ending institutionla child abuse.
This has been my main cause also. Many here tend to forget that because I don’t agree with the direction they are taking the cause. I don’t believe the entire industry is abusive where many here do.
Im sickened more so by the fact that he thinks of himself as to be superior and far more important than the victims.
Actually, SFNL, it is just the opposite. I have been watching parents getting insulted, ridiculed and chased away (for years) and when I stepped in and defended them or myself or speak out we all hear the cry…”why do you come on here and disrespect a survivor, TheWho?, don’t you have a conscience”? Everyone here says it like you are so superior than everyone else here. I have always found that to be very odd to say the least.
Not only is it pure self indulgence, but it makes me fucking sick. THATS WHY. Thats my opinion. For a man to think that his "fame on fornits" is far more important, than the kids suffering, whom have suffered, and who are still suffering or no longer alive because of the scum sucking Troubled Teen Industry is damn repulsive. Maybe if when you (WHO) become one who has been victimized so severely, then come post and become fuckin famous or whatever it is you want, until then, draw your needed attention somewhere else.
I am not giving myself attention.. everyone else is. I am here to speak openly about my opinions and experience in the industry. There are many people who are interested. If I am attacked for speaking openly then yes I will respond, but if I was looking to become famous fornits would not be my first choice to get exposure.
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I am not giving myself attention.. everyone else is. I am here to speak openly about my opinions and experience in the industry. There are many people who are interested. If I am attacked for speaking openly then yes I will respond, but if I was looking to become famous fornits would not be my first choice to get exposure.
You're here because you think we're easy marks. The kind of bullshit you spout doesn't fly in the real world so you spend hours each day here mixing it up with the "ingrates" and "disgruntled, angry druggies who obviously didn't use the tools the program gave us" because you know its easy for people to dismiss us because we've already been labeled by your beloved programs as "troubled". Pretty pathetic when you stop and think about it. Hell, its understandable why survivors would spend a lot of time here, but him?? Puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze!! ::rolly eyes::
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I am not giving myself attention.. everyone else is. I am here to speak openly about my opinions and experience in the industry. There are many people who are interested. If I am attacked for speaking openly then yes I will respond, but if I was looking to become famous fornits would not be my first choice to get exposure.
You're here because you think we're easy marks. The kind of bullshit you spout doesn't fly in the real world so you spend hours each day here mixing it up with the "ingrates" and "disgruntled, angry druggies who obviously didn't use the tools the program gave us" because you know its easy for people to dismiss us because we've already been labeled by your beloved programs as "troubled". Pretty pathetic when you stop and think about it. Hell, its understandable why survivors would spend a lot of time here, but him?? Puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze!! ::rolly eyes::
AGREED!!! thank you ANNe
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I am not giving myself attention.. everyone else is. I am here to speak openly about my opinions and experience in the industry. There are many people who are interested. If I am attacked for speaking openly then yes I will respond, but if I was looking to become famous fornits would not be my first choice to get exposure.
You're here because you think we're easy marks. The kind of bullshit you spout doesn't fly in the real world so you spend hours each day here mixing it up with the "ingrates" and "disgruntled, angry druggies who obviously didn't use the tools the program gave us" because you know its easy for people to dismiss us because we've already been labeled by your beloved programs as "troubled". Pretty pathetic when you stop and think about it. Hell, its understandable why survivors would spend a lot of time here, but him?? Puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze!! ::rolly eyes::
What I typically do (if someone annoys me that much) is just skip over their posts,dont even read them. Try it, Anne. it works great!!
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I am not giving myself attention.. everyone else is. I am here to speak openly about my opinions and experience in the industry. There are many people who are interested. If I am attacked for speaking openly then yes I will respond, but if I was looking to become famous fornits would not be my first choice to get exposure.
You're here because you think we're easy marks. The kind of bullshit you spout doesn't fly in the real world so you spend hours each day here mixing it up with the "ingrates" and "disgruntled, angry druggies who obviously didn't use the tools the program gave us" because you know its easy for people to dismiss us because we've already been labeled by your beloved programs as "troubled". Pretty pathetic when you stop and think about it. Hell, its understandable why survivors would spend a lot of time here, but him?? Puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze!! ::rolly eyes::
What I typically do (if someone annoys me that much) is just skip over their posts,dont even read them. Try it, Anne. it works great!!
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Reading comprehension problems persist, hmm? Or is it just you putting words in my mouth again? Where in that post did you see me write anything about being annoyed?
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Reading comprehension problems persist, hmm? Or is it just you putting words in my mouth again? Where in that post did you see me write anything about being annoyed?
I think it is right before the post where you claim I stated that I work for the industry or maybe the one before you said I thought you were all Druggies. Check those 2 first.
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Reading comprehension problems persist, hmm? Or is it just you putting words in my mouth again? Where in that post did you see me write anything about being annoyed?
I think it is right before the post where you claim I stated that I work for the industry or maybe the one before you said I thought you were all Druggies. Check those 2 first.
So its the comprehension you're having a problem with. I said I was paraphrasing and lumping most pro-programs people together.
Jees Who. They offer adult remedial reading classes.
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Reading comprehension problems persist, hmm? Or is it just you putting words in my mouth again? Where in that post did you see me write anything about being annoyed?
I think it is right before the post where you claim I stated that I work for the industry or maybe the one before you said I thought you were all Druggies. Check those 2 first.
So its the comprehension you're having a problem with. I said I was paraphrasing and lumping most pro-programs people together.
Jees Who. They offer adult remedial reading classes.
I will take that as you cant find them.... dont want you to waste your time.
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I will take that as you cant find them.... dont want you to waste your time.
Aww, still having problems?? Maybe the remedial classes would be too advanced for you.
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If we all don't know shit. And you know so much tell us....
Why did Brett Carey and Rea Kreider leave ASR?
Couldn't possibly be because it's all 1 big Incestuous warped profit mill?
Brett Carey and Rea Kreider
RMA (1986 - 1993)
to
Mount Bachelor Academy (1993 - 1996)
to
ASR (1996 - 200?)
to
??? Crash and burn probably.
Does ASR tell parents the truth about their history?
Do Brett and Rea ever tell anyone but their inner circle how they really feel?
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Does ASR tell parents the truth about their history?
Actually they do. On our first visit we were told how ASR came about and how it didn’t do well the first year or two…their model wasn’t very effective..kids were accepted which shouldn’t have been and they let some staff go. I think they actually closed down for a short time.
All the staff seemed very open about their past and how they came to part of ASR.
Do Brett and Rea ever tell anyone but their inner circle how they really feel?
I vaguely remember Brett but not Rea. As to who they are confidential with about how they feel I really cant speak to.
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House of cards
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House of cards
Boy, no shit. Its amazing that after all these years they still do the same shit, employ the same fucked up tactics and in many cases (not unlike the Cath church) just shuffle staff from program to program. Straight used to close down and reopen the same day, with the same staff, under a new name.
same shit, different wrapper.
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House of cards
Boy, no shit. Its amazing that after all these years they still do the same shit, employ the same fucked up tactics and in many cases (not unlike the Cath church) just shuffle staff from program to program. Straight used to close down and reopen the same day, with the same staff, under a new name.
same shit, different wrapper.
This goes way back..... many industries shut down periodically to shuffle the deck, so to speak. Public schools started doing this in the 1800's. They shut down during the summer months (or the fall if it was harvest time). They would take advantage of this time to make improvements on their model, let staff go and give them time to rehire etc.... most teachers which were let go would travel to another town or city and start teaching there... this goes for any profession.. if you are a welder and you leave one company chances are you will move to another place as a welder also because it is what you like to do!!
None of this is unique to the TT industry.
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House of cards
Boy, no shit. Its amazing that after all these years they still do the same shit, employ the same fucked up tactics and in many cases (not unlike the Cath church) just shuffle staff from program to program. Straight used to close down and reopen the same day, with the same staff, under a new name.
same shit, different wrapper.
This goes way back..... many industries shut down periodically to shuffle the deck, so to speak. Public schools started doing this in the 1800's. They shut down during the summer months (or the fall if it was harvest time). They would take advantage of this time to make improvements on their model, let staff go and give them time to rehire etc.... most teachers which were let go would travel to another town or city and start teaching there... this goes for any profession.. if you are a welder and you leave one company chances are you will move to another place as a welder also because it is what you like to do!!
None of this is unique to the TT industry.
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If you're a welder and you realize that your company is using outdated and dangerous metals that will lead to cracks and breaks down the road, you scrap your plan and begin completely anew. You don't use the very same metal that has been proven to be inadequate and dangerous just because you tweak it a little, subtract some elements and add others.
The ENTIRE BASIS OF PROGRAMS would need to be changed and that won't happen because it wouldn't "work" then. Yes, programs "work" in the sense that they scare and terrify kids into changing their behaviors temporarily and superficially, but we all know how that ends up. Program parents are always talking about these miraculous changes that occur in their precious little snowflakes after being in a program....and I agree.....there ARE very definite changes. Whether or not that's a good thing and HOW THEY ACCOMPLISH this change is what's in question.
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If you're a welder and you realize that your company is using outdated and dangerous metals that will lead to cracks and breaks down the road, you scrap your plan and begin completely anew. You don't use the very same metal that has been proven to be inadequate and dangerous just because you tweak it a little, subtract some elements and add others.
Exactly, but you only get rid of the metal that is bad. While you are shut down you can take that opportunity to improve the process so that your end product is improved also
The ENTIRE BASIS OF PROGRAMS would need to be changed and that won't happen because it wouldn't "work" then. Yes, programs "work" in the sense that they scare and terrify kids into changing their behaviors temporarily and superficially, but we all know how that ends up. Program parents are always talking about these miraculous changes that occur in their precious little snowflakes after being in a program....and I agree.....there ARE very definite changes. Whether or not that's a good thing and HOW THEY ACCOMPLISH this change is what's in question.
No it doesn’t need to be completely changed. The key is to provide a safe and secure environment so that the children can grow and mature naturally. If you force change or the kids don’t buy into it then it will not be a permanent change and the child will not be helped.
Remember that these changes need to occur in a least restrictive environment and a safe environment which is what is provided by many of these schools. Sometimes schools need to make many changes to get to this point others never get there and will close down eventually.
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Exactly, but you only get rid of the metal that is bad. While you are shut down you can take that opportunity to improve the process so that your end product is improved also
And in this case, ALL the metal is bad. The very basics of it. You can't dress it up, you can't tone it down. You can't add a few things here, subtract a few things there. It is FUCKED from the start. It needs to be scrapped. Period.
No it doesn’t need to be completely changed.
It sure does since the very basics and fundamentals are taken directly from known abusive cults.
The key is to provide a safe and secure environment so that the children can grow and mature naturally. If you force change or the kids don’t buy into it then it will not be a permanent change and the child will not be helped.
Exactly why programs will never work. You can't force or coerce "treatment" on someone WITHOUT doing damage. First, do no harm.
Remember that these changes need to occur in a least restrictive environment and a safe environment which is what is provided by many of these schools.
Bullshit. They are entirely restrictive. They won't even allow kids to speak to their families freely. The forced confessions in group settings are used against them if they express the desire to leave. Exit Plans take care of the rest. The kids know that if they don't agree to complete the program that they'll either be sent someplace worse, won't be allowed back in to hte home and will be virtually ostracized from their families.
Sometimes schools need to make many changes to get to this point others never get there and will close down eventually.
These places are NOT schools. They're behavior modification facilities.
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Exactly why programs will never work. You can't force or coerce "treatment" on someone WITHOUT doing damage. First, do no harm.
The programs that you are familiar with. I am not speaking about them.
Bullshit. They are entirely restrictive. They won't even allow kids to speak to their families freely. The forced confessions in group settings are used against them if they express the desire to leave. Exit Plans take care of the rest. The kids know that if they don't agree to complete the program that they'll either be sent someplace worse, won't be allowed back in to hte home and will be virtually ostracized from their families.
See, this doesn’t remotely apply. I spoke to my daughter every week and more often if there was a problem. The environment was designed to make them feel safe, least restrictive, so that they could grow. I have read all the stories here on fornits as you have and this is where you are getting your opinions… I was there you were not.
These places are NOT schools. They're behavior modification facilities.
Again this shows you don’t know what you are talking about.
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"The key is to provide a safe and secure environment so that the children can grow and mature naturally. If you force change or the kids don’t buy into it then it will not be a permanent change and the child will not be helped."
That's odd the who said there are families that raise 2+ kids.
And sometimes 1 of the kids doesn't turn out good (like the other siblings) and needs a place like ASR.
Well, if the parent's raised at least 1 good kid can't we assume they grew up in a safe and secure household?
I think his specific numbers were a family with 1 bad kid out of 5 kids in the family.
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"The key is to provide a safe and secure environment so that the children can grow and mature naturally. If you force change or the kids don’t buy into it then it will not be a permanent change and the child will not be helped."
That's odd the who said there are families that raise 2+ kids.
And sometimes 1 of the kids doesn't turn out good (like the other siblings) and needs a place like ASR.
Well, if the parent's raised at least 1 good kid can't we assume they grew up in a safe and secure household?
I think his specific numbers were a family with 1 bad kid out of 5 kids in the family.
There could be many other factors also... The child may benefit from a highly structured environment, which he/she may not get at home... the child may benefit from the therapeutic model and therapy that is offered... the change in environment and not having the exposure to friends which could be a bad influence.... a neighbor or extended family member etc.....
The safe and secure environment is only a piece of it.
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