Show Posts

This section allows you to view all posts made by this member. Note that you can only see posts made in areas you currently have access to.


Messages - 80's Guy

Pages: [1]
1
wtaylorg, it's great to hear you are doing well.

As I posted once before, you and I spent several days distributing flyers in the early 80's. Also, paraphrasing Cleveland, if there was anything real about my experience, it was getting to know people like you there, who in my book were more authentic than 99% of the others.

All I can say is, you missed nothing original all the years to follow '85, to the very end.
A few of us weathered the storm and decided to be unpopular, while we made decisions that went against "staff" simply because they continued to promote the old party line that a real education was "bullshit," unless you had a "calling" like certain members that seemed to come from a line of doctors or lawyers. Or better yet, according to the top dog, "if you had that unmistakable aura of a politician or some other high ranking member of society, then you should go to school, just don't forget who made you.? IMO so much of it was about imaginary "blue blood lineage.". . . if you know what I mean.

About the only element of goodness I have remaining from all those years are certain positive points in my life, which I do attribute to the experience, regardless of human flaws, great or small. However, I have had to work hard, and continue to, trying to shed the hardened, competitive, paranoid, insecure, stressed-out edge that environment so effectively promoted. I, despite the strong opinions of many individuals who post, do not hate or resent anyone there, but I do feel sorry for them because despite (as anon wrote above the "unusual closeness") almost all of my "friends" there hardly knew people like you or me at all. I hate to quote popular culture, but when it came to the relationship between that group and me, I am reminded of Madonna's song "Nobody Knows Me." The same is true for me not knowing them.

I would like to believe that if they had really listened to what they were preaching things would have ended radically different, but many of the ones preaching had tremendous egos, so what can we expect, right? The worst for me was feeling the loss of friends at the very end. Without getting too overdramatic, I spent several nights in tears wondering if the emptiness I had been left with would ever go away. I can forgive, but am aware that those in power knew that their selfish decisions would unravel a wave of pain for so many of my friends who were so blind to manipulation and deceit on the part of the leadership. It took me at least one year to start seeing the "clear as day writing on the wall." But it was beautiful to wake up one morning and feel really free. The irony is of course that I thank all the ones who brought it all down because they did us one hellofa lifetime favor. Thank You wherever you all ran to. Obviously, I do not believe my version is the absolute Truth, but the funny part is that it no longer has to be for me to be free.

I know of one case that, IMO, couldn't live without the "falsely imposed structure" and threw himself in what I would consider a religious cult, within one year of the experience. I, on the other hand, have not gotten over an uneasiness with being a part of any group.

For you it was leaving that lifted the fog. For me it took witnessing the final days, when all the key players had had enough time to settle in to a comfortable place, where they could really start playing games with peoples' lives and loyalties. The myth died for me when not soon after that, I realized I never really wanted to be there or even wanted to ever know most of those people. They were very different than who I was and how I wanted to live my life. Perhaps, like you, I should have had the guts to walk away a long time ago, but. . .no regrets at this point, just working on a new place I can call my own.

I have decided, in fact, that except for one or two people that were always transparent about their lives and did not try to manipulate me or the way I looked at them, I want very little to do with the people I knew from that era. Actually, for the first time I really am applying the saying, which they taught me: "We are not really good for each other, so you go along your way, and I will find the road to where I want to be . . ." Best Wishes and Good Luck On Your Journey.  ::rainbow::  ::rainbow::
  [ This Message was edited by: 80's Guy on 2005-09-23 08:48 ][ This Message was edited by: 80's Guy on 2005-09-23 09:06 ]

2
The Seed Discussion Forum / Why Did YOU Stay Away?
« on: September 23, 2005, 11:37:00 AM »
wtaylorg, it's great to hear you are doing well.

As I posted once before, you and I spent several days distributing flyers in the early 80's. Also, paraphrasing Cleveland, if there was anything real about my experience, it was getting to know people like you there, who in my book were more authentic than 99% of the others.

All I can say is, you missed nothing original all the years to follow '85, to the very end.
A few of us weathered the storm and decided to be unpopular, while we made decisions that went against "staff" simply because they continued to promote the old party line that a real education was "bullshit," unless you had a "calling" like certain members that seemed to come from a line of doctors or lawyers. Or better yet, according to the top dog, "if you had that unmistakable aura of a politician or some other high ranking member of society, then you should go to school, just don't forget who made you.? IMO so much of it was about imaginary "blue blood lineage.". . . if you know what I mean.  

About the only element of goodness I have remaining from all those years are certain positive points in my life, which I do attribute to the experience, regardless of human flaws, great or small. However, I have had to work hard, and continue to, trying to shed the hardened, competitive, paranoid, insecure, stressed-out edge that environment so effectively promoted. I, despite the strong opinions of many individuals who post, do not hate or resent anyone there, but I do feel sorry for them because despite (as anon wrote above the "unusual closeness") almost all of my "friends" there hardly knew people like you or me at all. I hate to quote popular culture, but when it came to the relationship between that group and me, I am reminded of Madonna's song "Nobody Knows Me." The same is true for me not knowing them.

I would like to believe that if they had really listened to what they were preaching things would have ended radically different, but many of the ones preaching had tremendous egos, so what can we expect, right? The worst for me was feeling the loss of friends at the very end. Without getting too overdramatic, I spent several nights in tears wondering if the emptiness I had been left with would ever go away. I can forgive, but am aware that those in power knew that their selfish decisions would unravel a wave of pain for so many of my friends who were so blind to manipulation and deceit on the part of the leadership. It took me at least one year to start seeing the "clear as day writing on the wall." But it was beautiful to wake up one morning and feel really free. The irony is of course that I thank all the ones who brought it all down because they did us one hellofa lifetime favor. Thank You wherever you all ran to. Obviously, I do not believe my version is the absolute Truth, but the funny part is that it no longer has to be for me to be free.

I know of one case that, IMO, couldn't live without the "falsely imposed structure" and threw himself in what I would consider a religious cult, within one year of the experience. I, on the other hand, have not gotten over an uneasiness with being a part of any group.

For you it was leaving that lifted the fog. For me it took witnessing the final days, when all the key players had had enough time to settle in to a comfortable place, where they could really start playing games with peoples' lives and loyalties. The myth died for me when not soon after that, I realized I never really wanted to be there or even wanted to ever know most of those people. They were very different than who I was and how I wanted to live my life. Perhaps, like you, I should have had the guts to walk away a long time ago, but. . .no regrets at this point, just working on a new place I can call my own.

I have decided, in fact, that except for one or two people that were always transparent about their lives and did not try to manipulate me or the way I looked at them, I want very little to do with the people I knew from that era. Actually, for the first time I really am applying the saying, which they taught me: "We are not really good for each other, so you go along your way, and I will find the road to where I want to be . . ."  Best Wishes and Good Luck On Your Journey.
 ::rainbow:: [ This Message was edited by: 80's Guy on 2005-09-23 08:48 ][ This Message was edited by: 80's Guy on 2005-09-23 09:06 ]

3
The Seed Discussion Forum / Need clarification of The Seed's early history
« on: September 20, 2005, 02:16:00 PM »
Antigen I don't understand why they did not let you in because I went in early 80's, yet I was only 17 and others were allowed in that had been to other programs. It really does not make sense to me why they would not let you in to the program, especially since they knew you from before and you had helped endlessly with sandwhiches, been to open meetings, had siblings that were respected Seed graduates, and had spent many of your earlier years around other seedlings.

For the Anon above, there were, after 1980 (not sure when exactly it stopped. I'm sure other trivia experts here will know since they spent a lot of time out to dinner with inner circle members), younger new ones coming in (i.e., 16, 15, 14, 13, etc.) I had to live in a host home with adults and an oldcomer and a newcomer (who had been in a few months more than I). Then, when I turned 18, I was moved to Cranbrook.

[ This Message was edited by: 80's Guy on 2005-09-20 11:47 ]

4
The Seed Discussion Forum / Trusting My Better Judgment
« on: September 10, 2005, 10:42:00 PM »
In my opinion, JU, you are correct in stating that The Seed was a personal experience and that I was not the only one affected. As a contributor to this forum, I disagree, however, that the attention here is on the negative.  First of all, for over 20 years I lived around The Seed and ?embraced? the group, both the good as well as the bad. On this point, your proclamation that we should recognize, moreover focus, on the positive is contradictory since you left the Seed after a confrontation with L, where you recognized that not all was fair in Shangri-La.  

My question to you JU: ?Why leave the group after only 6 years to never return based on human flaws that you recognized in L. and A.?  After all, if you were so aware that the ?dream? was what really counted and not individual personalities/modalities, then why not take on the attitude, like so many of us did, that being grateful was the number one priority??

I was told off by L., A,, and a few other people, more than several times in 20+ years. Sometimes, I knew that it was not fair, but I still kept thinking about the positive, not the negative, so I stayed.  Why? Above the fear of leaving, I saw my time at The Seed as a journey with friends, who I did feel were like brothers and sisters for many, many years. The Seed was all I really knew from ages 17-38.

Where I also disagree with you is that because I ?talk? about myself in this forum (something I learned at The Seed), I do not think of others in my life. This forum JU is a very small slice of my life, and if I do choose to focus on issues--positive, negative, or both--that is a right I claim, just as you claimed your right to think independently, many years ago, by walking out the door after realizing that L. and A. were making it clear to you that ?Art is The Seed.? As you said, they would have it no other way. I see that you exerted your independent thought, a freedom that all of us are entitled to. It is this very freedom which you claimed that night that I have the right to claim over and over again to this day in regards to my experiences at The Seed for over 20 years.

As others have mentioned, the interrelations at the Seed were complex, and I was emotionally tied as a product of a much deeper bond, I assure you, than someone who was around for only six years could ever imagine, especially because the ?bond? in the 80?s and 90?s was so much tighter than the 70?s. You seem to miss the point that after so many years of participating in the group, I demand and claim the right to explore and question the reasons for things at The Seed since they so intimately impacted who I am today.

Perhaps, you do not realize how much I really do get it, JU. Despite peer pressure, I take full responsibility for my decision to stay at The Seed all those years, but I refuse to ignore that it is my God given right to question others as I question myself and as you questioned a long time ago. The truth is that many of us were not as ?empowered? by A. as you and a few other key staff members were to the point where you felt you had the right to question. For some of us it took longer to assert our true opinions about issues that were impacting our lives.  

Yes, there was a lot of good, but there were also plenty of decisions based on greed, power, conceit?the full spectrum of human flaws. The funny part of all this is that I hold no grudges toward staff or anyone else associated with The Seed, most of all you.

The part I think you have difficulty with is that, speaking for MYSELF, even though I have grown to hold no resentments about selfish decisions that impacted the collapse of the group and ultimately cost me almost all of my friendships since we were asked to choose a side, between L. and A., I still love everyone I came in contact with at The Seed. This part of the drama you did not have to live, JU, since a long time ago you chose to think for YOURSELF. And frankly, I don?t blame you. I just hope someday you recognize that the epiphany you experienced that final night is the same freedom that others have had to claim along the way. I really believe that if you take time to look closely and listen carefully you might find that our experiences are not only about ourselves, but the bigger picture of a place some of us so personally called home.  ::rainbow::  [ This Message was edited by: 80's Guy on 2005-09-10 19:42 ]

5
The Seed Discussion Forum / Note to John Underwood
« on: August 08, 2005, 04:02:00 PM »
I haven't posted for several weeks, but I think it would be appropriate since I have been hearing the name JU from the time I was 17 years old, but never had the pleasure of meeting the person. This way I can read his posts and at least get a better idea of what he was/is like through his own words versus the second hand memories that I heard about him for over 20 years. I still remember hearing his name sprinkled in raps, often his name would emerge as part of some oldtimer's nostalgic picture of the "old days." I never heard anything negative about him, perhaps certan inner circle members knew about the confrontation between L. and JU, but it was never public group knowledge from 1980-2000+.

As I have posted in previous posts, I walked into that group in 1980. I was associated with that group much longer than JU or many others as I stayed for over 20 years, until the day it closed and beyond. . .up to the final days that ended in the "great dramatic divide," where followers were pulled between AB's army or LK's army. Of course, the "apocalyptic event" exploded a la White House Inner Circle style,(like everything else in that group), where first the privileged (JU would have probably been one of them had he "stuck it out" as some of us more ignorant idiots did for so many years) were informed of issues the group was having and then later the lower ranks would get the handmedown version of the great tragedy. The lower ranks were kept as outsiders, actually staff hoped they would not find out what was coming down. The lower ranks got to find out bits and pieces as the story mounted to a volcano. I personally was told, "there are problems at the s--d," but never was I told "the truth about some of these problems is that we caused them because we should have been honest a long time ago and now we have to cover our asses."

Bottom line the key persons on both sides (and there were several key players) forgot the first and most important rule" or "never learned it". . .you know the one about HONESTY, so they also forgot to have the decency to fill-in all the lower rank people, such as myself, about the problems at the s--d. To this day, not one of them has ever apologized for a truly hurting situation that they created out of selfishness and greed.  

I was a graduate but never on staff, though many times close to the inner circle, not a part of it. . my story goes on for over 20 years, not just 6 of my post-adolescent years. In my opinion, JU to his credit, got out when he realized that L. was on her way up (she did, after, all reign unquestionably to the end). I must say I do respect JU for at least he recognized the inevitable truth that all were not created equal witin the walls of st. rd. 84. . . especially cause that was only the beginning. Basically, many of us, if not about 90+% of the people that stuck around through the 80's, 90's, and beginning 2000, lived in complete obedience not only to AB, but to L. There was no questioning L. about anything at any time. If she said jump, we definately jumped, for many, many, many years, not just 6.  

It would have been interesting, however, to see how long JU would have stayed had he gone along and allowed L. to truly dominate as she did for over 20 years. Would he have still not lost sight of the so-called dream, which by the way any virtues that I was exposed to in that group certainly exist, and more so, in major religions and smaller groups of people that promote brotherhood, courage, friendship, and love. Unfortunately, many there had there eye on much more than these virtues.

JU is right. He knew better and did not stick around for the era of where one or two were destined and blessed to become lawyers and doctors, but not others, several were destined and blessed to be married, but not others, some were destined and blessed to be business people, but not others. . .Others should keep a very low profile becuase you are pretty much invisible to those in power, so stay out of the way, and someone will let you know when things are different.

I personally remember feeling trapped within people who did not understand me . . .I remember many of them laughed at being gay, when I and a few others (some stayed tightly in the closet)were coming to terms with who we were. . i remember being told at 17 "Oh, don't worry about being gay, we can all relate to being gay before we came in. . .it's no big deal. . .it will go away, concentrate on the important stuff. . .what's being said in the group." And then 20 years went by and I had repressed everything so deep that it has been in the last several years of my life that I feel free to be who I really am inside--true to me. Also. the constant anxiety and paranoia has stopped, the cramps in my stomach from years of living in fear of when would I be told off for being so full of shit, for fantasizing, daydreaming, wanting so much more and so many different goals than the boring, unmotivating options staff offered anytime I had to listen to their advise on what to do with my life. Thank God I stopped listening. Ultimately, I did do my own thing in terms of career and ignored staff's blatant disapproval (or was it jealousy) of how how high and how far I could shine for me. The funny part about it is that I always made sure to thank them every step of the way. . but that was not enough for them.  

Sadly, I guess I was one of the weaker ones (back then), unlike JU who had the courage to stand up to them way back when he was only there for six years. I COULD NOT FIND THE STRENGTH AT 17 AND BEYOND TO STAND UP TO THEM BECAUSE I WAS AFRAID THAT IF I WENT AGAINST THEM I WOULD SHATTER MY PARENTS' HEARTS WHO HAD PAID IN 1980 WHATEVER THEY COULD TO MAKE ME STARIGHT -- BOTH SEXUALLY AND DRUG WISE. JU did not invest 2 decades of his life into a group that really did not, at least, post 80's know what true love really was. Snitching, humiliating, discriminating, and certainly very good at trying to "read people like a book" for the purpose of power playing and conquering. Yes, there were some good things about the 20 plus years I was there. If I did not reconcile the good with the bad, I would be totally empty inside because I cannot erase all those years and the emotional and psychological impression they had on me. I do recognize, however, that the perspectives of soemone who was on staff for 6 years are very different than someone who really did grow up at The Seed. Unfortuantely, I was also sheltered way beyond JU and only started to gain real independence after it all fell  apart.  I do not resent JU or any other person who worked at that place simply because I do beleive that they thought what they were involved in was right. I still wonder how my life might have been different if I had had the courage that JU describes. . .instead i really just waited whether it was in the warehouse or back on Andrew's house for the last and final round.

6
Obviously, I cannot speak for anyone else, but speaking for myself, I could not agree with you more Cleveland. The authentic growth that I should have made all those years, I have started to really make in the past three years of my life. Luckily, there were many areas of my life in which I did not stop growing at a younger age, such as my career (despite others' attempt to detour me). On one hand, there is something tragically sad about the idea to have waited all these years, but on the other, these have been the best years of my life. I wish I could say the same for living in the midst of group people, but unfortunately I cannot becuase I was not free.

One lesson I have learned, however, is to try to listen better to my heart. For instance, I felt deep inside, when I was 17, that I was allowing them to steal my creativitiy and passion for life. I almost lost these two preciousattributes completely, but Thank God my stubborness kicked in many times during those years and I hung on to what I had gained in my most natural setting before others tried to mold me in the image of "the revolution."

7
I can tell you how I was able to begin "getting over it" (for lack of a better term). First, my education saved my ass. I am so grateful to my sister who literally almost forced me to take a college class, in about 1985, when I decided to move away from the seed for the first time and only time (only for 6 months). During the time that I decided to move away and go to school, I was treated as a suspect character. Anytime I visited the group while I lived away from them, staff certainly helped me feel like I was screwed up for deciding to do my own thing. I visited the beach outings on the weekends or simply tried to come into the group, and it never failed that they would make me feel as if I was doing somthing terribly wrong, when in fact, I was waking up to the world in one of the most powerful ways, which was for the first time starting to realize that I was an intelligent, creative nad passionate human being that loved learning, despite staff's attempts to keep me from not wanting to go to school. As we all know knowledge is power, and they were sure scared of anyone getting even a bit of that power. It was only when I decided to come back 6 months later, that I was treated better, but staff and art were not thrilled (and they showed it to me in their cold looks and shoulders) with the idea that I had decided to continue in school and was actually doing well in college. I returned to the seed because I was afraid to make it out there on my own. Also, I could not get rid of the pit in my stomach that constantly haunted me as if I had been a traitor to staff and art. At the time I did not associate the stomach cramps with cult withdrawl syndrome, but after reading Combatting Mind Control by Hassan http://www.freedomofmind.com, years later, I realized it was the psychlogical effects of group withdrawl that I was suffering. I thought my body was telling me that I had done the wrong thing by moving away from the seed. Although  I re-committed myself for the long haul, I never stopped going to school since I knew that it was the only thing they could not touch and at least I was gaining freedom in the pricay of my own mind. I later went through graduate school, and they gve up on trying to onvince me that an education was a waste of time. So my sister opened the doors for something I was really unprepared to understand when I was younger since I believed the line in the group that school was not important and only a few "select seed kids" who just "knew" what they were meant to be, ususally a doctor, lawyer, or President of the U.S. should go to school since a liberal education was a worth nothing and it usually was a way of becoming "an intelelctual idiot like so many assholes out there." Although I was trapped in their ignorant ways for many years, I must admit that when everything crumbled I knew who I was because I realized that for a long time I had been able to see through them , not them through me, I was justa always scared to take a real close look at how much help they needed to improve who they were as human beings. I guess there is soemthing to say for learning to think critically as a result of reading and writing. There are more ways that I began to "get over it," but I would say that my education has been one of the most important tools for overcoming the drama of "uneducated" people.

8
The Seed Discussion Forum / The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« on: June 21, 2005, 10:59:00 PM »
thanks Anon. If ur comfortable tell us a little more about u.

9
The Seed Discussion Forum / The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« on: June 21, 2005, 10:47:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-06-20 10:59:00, Stripe wrote:


On 2005-06-20 09:51:00,
I think it's tragically ironic that the programmers who demanded honesty are thoroughly incapable of demonstrating such traits in the REAL world.
Maybe we give them far too much credit for character traits they are simply incapable of possessing or understanding.  Maybe we expect too much because our journeys have taught us lessons about this past that the programers could never understand.  When life gets  difficult, it is much easier to leave the painful things unsaid and unacknowledged.  But easy does not equate with right.  Hey! That sure is one big-ass white elephant in the room, don't you think?





I agree completely with Stripe. Honesty was a one way streeet at that place, and it was not just staff or higher up's who were allowed to preserve their silence. Many who were held in high regard by those in power were awarded the luxury of silence when it came to personal mistakes that had negatively affected other people in ways that went way beyond any mistakes I was confessing in the group.

It was amazing how we were kept in our place by the same people that were SILENT about their own shortcomings. It was only after being forced to admit or look like a total fool that they coughed up the censored version of, "Well, I haven't been perfect either." Of course, that is better than saying nothing at all when you and the few followers you have left are staring at the same "white elephant" in the same small room.  

There is no way that those people (who essentially were strangers as far as I am concerned today) ever took the time to stop talking--to listen--about themselves and got to know me inside. Instead, they knew how to blow their own horns, but ironically, as Stripe said, many of them were incapable of using some of the new agey ideas they professed to  :wave: find concrete solutions to their real problems, in the REAL world  :wave: . If they had been able to find effective answers that would have solved (as other humnan beings have to solve on a daily basis) the serious issues that were bringing that group to an end (after all, they were as close as "family"). However, they did not have the tools ncessary to really solve real problems as informed, intelligent human beings.  They could not function as balanced, independent thinkers that make decisions based on THE TRUTH. Plain and simple, they cannot be HONEST IN THE REAL WORLD--supposedly, THE FIRST AND MOST IMPORTANT RULE. The results are individuals, who are skewed in their thinking and refuse to deal with the real problems that they have helped to create.


Many, if not almost all of those people, that I wasted(?) so many years of my life with have little to say beyond a superficial smile because anything beyond that is considered a "problem" that is "better left unsaid." And as far as I am concerened, it is they who needed real help, perhaps real counseling or therapy to learn how to deal with everyday isssues, such as problems in marriages, friendships, relationships, career, etc. Just as I have needed in my life and maybe someday I will find myself in a place where I can benefit from real help. Instead decisions at that place were made based on FEAR, INSECURITY, GREED, and POWER.

By the way, all of these are emotions thast I have felt and acted on many times in my own life, but have had to either confess to in front of a crowded warehouse full of strangers (as Greg put it)or learned to deal with them falling on my face over and over again. But I am no longer afraid of feeling because I realize more than ever that the "happiness" I claimed to feel for all those years was really a numbing of authentic feelings: I forgot what it was to really feel: hurt, loneliness, regret, passion, shame, embarassment, love, selfishness, etc, . . Because I was taught for many years that all of these were inferior to something called "happiness," which looked like a fearful smile plastered on my face, wondering when would be the next time I was going to be told that I was not good enough.


I have no resentments, but I refuse to beleive that there is anything wrong with expecting truth from people, on all sides, regarding a significant period of my life when I was also there for them for a "very long, long ride."

10
Synanon / Where are the Synanon Ex-Members?
« on: June 21, 2005, 12:01:00 AM »
I have read several of the books on Synanon, and they have not totally satisfied my curiosity on the way of life at Synanon. I am especially interested in the connection between Synanon and The Seed. I was a part of The Seed for many years and am interested in anyone who attended Synanonn to tell his or her story here, so we can start comparing notes on these two programs.

As a result of this forum, I have grown tremendously. Please post your Synanon stories,so all of us here can benefit from what many consider to be "The Grand Daddy of Therapeutic Communities." Tell us what life was like for you at Synanon. . .Thanks for your contributions.

[ This Message was edited by: 80's Guy on 2005-06-20 21:05 ]




SYNANON Charles Dederich  Synanon
The People Business  The Game Trip
Santa Monica beach Synanon rattlesnake Paradise, Inc.  


 
experience stories splitees[ This Message was edited by: 80's Guy on 2005-06-21 22:06 ]

11
The Seed Discussion Forum / The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« on: June 20, 2005, 08:51:00 AM »
Quote
I doubt we'll ever get much more detail. I'm sure it's all very painful and confusing to those involved. But it's still a valid question. After all, the principal characters involved certainly never had any respect for our privacy. Two way street, friends. We're just returing the favor; trying to keep you straight



I could not agreee more with Antigen's  and Stripe's quotes above. The saddest part of the story is that the principal parties have decided to live a lie rather than truly humble themselves as all of us had to plenty of times in their presence. When it comes to their own "sh-t" it is much too sacred for them to ask for forgiveness or, God forbid, forgive others. Stripe is right on the money: their silence of never wanting to speak the truth to those in the lower ranks, such as myself, caused me to lose almost all of a lifetime of friendships. . ."These are the greatest friends you will ever have or can ever ask for."  Remember that quote? The principal parties really did not care about the bonds that they themselves had helped me to create for years. When it came time to saving face as opposed to admitting and helping all to continue their lives and cultivated friendships, they promoted cutting ties and loyalties with all those opposed. Wow, thanks for at least having the decency to let me know you were going to pull the rug under me after 20 years and that now you expect me to cut ties with the very friends you for so many years let me know you had so much respect for and as a matter of fact, I should look up to these friends of mine and respect them because they are, after all, better, greater, and wiser souls than me. The principal parties sure waved the flag for many people, making sure they were held up as the "examples" of stregth, fortitude, courage, success, and riches, but when it came time to tear them down, boy people started coming down those pedestals on a high speed elevator.  

But it's O.K. From now on, I'd rather go at it alone or with friends that are much more comfortable showing me real feelings, not just a programmed smile that is criticizing and questioning my every move in relation to how I feel about THEM. [ This Message was edited by: 80's Guy on 2005-06-20 06:00 ]

12
The Seed Discussion Forum / The Great Mystery of the Final Days
« on: June 20, 2005, 08:18:00 AM »
Quote

The silence of the old guard, I suspect, comes from one of two places:



It's yet another control game with puppet-speakers doing the dirty work of creating shame and doubt in those who would ask questions and demand answers.  



OR



The old guard does not possess the moral fortitude and personal intergrity necessary to step up to plate and accept responsiblity for the good and the bad that came from their actions.



Gee, Anon, if you are such a seed buff and supporter, how come the rule about making amends doesn't apply in this case?
[ This Message was edited by: Stripe on 2005-06-19 19:17 ]"

Pages: [1]