Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: floridatreasure on February 23, 2006, 03:37:00 PM
-
I hope I am posting on the right form....
I am looking for anyone who can guide me on how to get my precious daughter out of a wilderness camp in florida.
Please, I have a daughter in the wilderness camp in Florida. I have been trying to get help with her situation for 8 months now, but I can not find anyone or any information on how to help her. It is breaking my heart to see her in the state she is in (emotionaly), she has been in there for 8 MONTHS!! Even though they said it would be for 4 months!! I didn't even want her in there at all!! They said that she will be in there from 14 to 24 months!! This is tearing her and myself apart. We were lied to and continue to be lied to. PLEASE, if someone could just guide me in what to do. I am so worried that my daughter is going to go to pieces. Please Help. my email is [email protected]
I Thank anyone who can help me in anyway.
_________________
missing my daughter
-
Uh, show up and say give me my kid?
Do you have custody? If so, call the cops.
If not, we need more information.
-
Oh If I could just Go get her...I would in a heartbeat....I am sorry, I just stay so upset over this and I have called, emailed,ect. her story so many times I just forgot some of the important things. She was court orderd, but it was supposed to be for a 30 day program. I do have sole custody of her. There is so much more but it is a long story. I know of 3 other kids that went back in front of the judge and had their time reduced, but I can't find out to get this done.It is so sad for what had happened to her to cause her to act out, but yet Nothing is being done to her Father. In the mean time my daughter is just starting to go to pieces.If anyone would like to know everything Please email me and I will be glad to explain. My Daughter had Never been in trouble before this mess. I was just plain Stupid and trusted & told my daughter to trust them!
Thank You for your response
-
I would suggest checking out the web site http://www.helpatanycost.com (http://www.helpatanycost.com) and contacting the author
-
Take a deep breath. Relax. Exhale.
Now, explain to us what happened? She was ordered there for 30 days, but it's been a lot longer then that, why?
-
Thank You...I hope you don't think I am crazy, but when I read your email I started crying, so please stay on here, but give me a few mins. tears are making it hard for me to type...I will tell you in a few mins. thank you for being concerned
-
take as long as you need, I am going for a walk with my doggies :smile:
-
I'd suggest you get an attorney to represent you and your child. If they told you 30 days and now it's turning into more than a year - you really need to get some legal advice right away. Go to a civil rights attorney. Has your daughter told you of any abuse at the facility? Physical, emotional, sexual abuse. Sometimes children don't tell parents what's really going on because they are afraid of retaliation. I want you to act fast. Good luck.
Moralizing, with the force of law or coercion, is a
far greater crime against the constitutional principles of our nation than unauthorized euphoria, regardless of the substance involved, be it chocolate or heroin.
--James
-
Thank You again, and I meant to say your post not email...It sounded nice and concerned, and I have ran into a lot of "sorry can not help..she committed the crime & now she has to pay" or hire a lawyer...and I have tried, but when all this happened I tried to get dcf to arrest my ex my daughters dad...needless to say he is gone from here, But Not arrested!! and lawyers don't want to work on payment plans.They don't belive my daughter!
My daughter was 14 1/2 years old when she started acting out, she was always proud that she was a virgin and wanted to stay that way untill marriage, but all of a sudden I started finding out that she was seeing a boy, now she was not allowed to date so I couldn't figure out how she was able to see any boy. She was homeschooled most of her life and her and I went to church, she was adopted at birth by myself and I have always told her she was my special gift from God and she still is. At 15 she tore her daddys truck with a hammer,flower pot & a brick. This was Not like her, she has always been a good girl and Not violent. When I tried to stop her she shoved me backwards. She was arrested put on probation. I talked to her over & over asking "What was going on with her...had anyone messed with her ..and I asked if her dad had ever touched her, she said no. A few weeks later she was washing dishes and her and her dad was arguing and he went toward her, she turned around and the pot she was washing caught his arm...he was Not hurt, but the police report was written up that she attacked him with a deadly weapon! I did not know that until we was standing in court and the judge read it. My daughter & myself looked at each other and tried to tell them that was Not true. It didn't matter they didn't listen. I agreed to a 30 day Christian program,(this program is Not Christian based or any faith based) because they said she could get 7 years!! This for a child that had Never been in any trouble! Once she was sentenced, about 2 or 3 weeks later they told me it was a 4 to 6 mos. program, but my daughter would not be in there that long. I cried, begged,pleaded but they said No. She needed to be in the program because of the sexual abuse. After about a month they said they knew kids and parents were lied to a lot about the time they would be in the program. Every time I tried to do something or to talk to them about her time ...her time gets longer. We were just told last week she will be in there for a least 12 to 14 mos. before they will even consider letting her go to the transition , which is another 6mos.. My Daughter is about to fall apart and so am I. I get to see her once every 6 weeks. My daughter gets nothing but good reports from there. she has completed her Master Treatment Plan, they state she is helpful, kind and tries to keep the peace in her group. There are other girls that have gotten their time reduced, some by getting their felony reduced to a misdemeanor, but I can't afford a lawyer unless it is on payment plan. I have FMS and have really gotten sick these last few months. I had started a cleaning service about a year and a half a go and some really big accounts, some of them were famous people, I was so proud of myself because I had always depended on the thing i was married to but since all this has happened to my baby girl I only have one , but important client left, I just was to sick to do the work so it is impossible to hire a lawyer
My Precious Daughter is in control of a place that I have No faith in, while her sorry father is somewhere in Florida living life up...I did have the boy that was with my daughter arrested. It was her father that was taking her out to get high, drunk, he would pick up this boy to be with my daughter get them high and so much more sick stuff, and he molested our Daughter!! That scum bag (I apologize for using slang words) has Never even been questioned! It tore my heart into when I found all of this out.
There is even more heartbreaking things, but I know this is already to long. If you are anyone can just guide me in what to do for
-
Thank You, and yes the emotional abuse is there! I wished you could read the letters,or see her but not only what she writes about, she is changing so much, and is falling to pieces,she tries to stay strong at camp so it won't go against her...every time she has opened up to them for help, they prolong her time, so now she just tries to hold everything in. She cries SO hard every 6 weeks when I get to be with her. It rips my heart out to know what all she has gone through and what she is going through, but they have both of us so scared to speak up anymore, because Every time we have...her time gets longer!I was even worried about posting on here..People that know my daughter states that she is really staying so stressed.This camp has a good reputation from what people have told me that I have tried to get to help, but I know I am not the only parent that fells this way, parents just don't want to make their kids be there any long than they have to be.And I feel like a lot of parents feel like that this place can help their kids, they just don't realize what mind games is played on their kids or they are like me they just don't know what to do. Most of the kids have been in trouble over & over( but I still don't think these wildnerness camps is the place for them) and a lot of them don't have a home to go to. Everyone I have talked to is really schocked that my daughter has not been in other programs or has not been in DCF.
If you know any lawyers here that will let me hire them on payment plans and that is not afraid to go up against this camp Please let me know, I have been trying for 8 1/2 mos.
-
one more thing, quite a few people have stated that they are being brainwashed, and this is true. I do not want to upset any one....so I will just put it this way,wether you are republican, democrat, independent it should not matter, but there it does. My daughter was given a very hard time over who I voted for..they speak out who they like and who they Hate, in a discussing group they had it came up who I voted for, they stated I was an idiot....they should not be allowed to give people a hard time over that, but they have. They have also told them to be independent from their parents, I don't think 14,15,16,17 year olds that are already scared, mixed up should be encouraged to move out on their own, I Know my daughter is not. They have told me that my daughter and myself are to close...I guess that is because I love my child with all my heart and I want to protect her. I hope I don't offend anyone, but they have said in front of me that sexual orientation does not matter, but to me it does. I already have a confused 16 year old, I just think they should keep that to themselves. There are other things ..much much more. Just about anything I believe in they don't and they have my daughter 24 hours a day!
-
I read your story, and I am so sorry. There are people that come on here from Florida, and will be able to point you in the right direction. It seems so weird, this whole story.........like something is missing? I can't make any sense out of why she'd be gone for so long, for doing so little?
-
Thank You so much for this information... And please excuse how I responded to this...I just get so upset....I went to the 10 questions you should ask...Every one of them has some of the problems that tears me apart and makes me so mad, because every one I contact in the "system" to try and get help says " This is a wonderful program" and I say Bull!
question 1...I get to be with her every 6 weeks, she gets to come home for 3 days, but they have us see aftercare & probation officer, she has homework,she has to call every night, and they hold it over the kids head if they break rules or things aren't right they don't get to come home for the 3 days. We both were told when she was first put in there that if I needed to see her, if I just couldn't take it any more or if she couldn't I could call and come and see her...that is a Lie! My daughter just about had a complete breakdown...crying, almost fainted a few times, shaking...I called and asked if I could just come and give here a hug even though it is over a hour and a half drive one way to get there and I was told No.
question3...there is one girl in the group that is restrained all the time..she has spit in my daughters & other girls face, she calls them names. she tease my daughter about her father, this really hurts my daughter
# 4...No they don't have this...and one of their favorite statements is on how great the kids manipulating & no they don't have access to any hotline or phone.........
procedure that allows a child to complain to someone at a higher level of authority than the person who makes the usual treatment decisions about him, without fear of retaliation. If you hear something like "the children are always lying and manipulating" in response to a question like this, you want a different provider. Also, ask if there are state hotlines to which the child has access for complaints.
question 5....There should be a complaint procedure if a teen believes she's being punished unfairly, and levels should not be determined solely (or even primarily) by peers. This can simply become a popularity contest and unfairly penalize kids with poor social skills.......
this happens all the time they have their favorites , and because I have complained about being lied to about my daughters length of stay, and because my daughter wears a certain brand of clothes (not bad clothes) they tell her a lot she is spoiled and it is stupid for me to buy her expensive clothes...even though I have showed them I bought the clothes on clearance. My daughter won't even wear them any more because they gave her such a hard time, and the clothes are not expensive
question 6....You want a program that seeks medical attention immediately, regardless of cost and regardless of the possibility that the child may be "faking." It should err on the side of believing the kid, basically...My daughter has never been a sickly child until she was there for a while....I took her to our doctor while she was home on a home visit he ordered 2 MRI's they have yet taken her to get this done. They tell her her medical problems is because she is so stressed
question 7 ...they tell her she is spoiled, mommy's girl, tough it up when her knee was swollen, they put these girls down a lot. They told me that they make it as hard as they can on them in there so when they get out they can handle anything...They are not making my daughter tough, they are breaking her down
# 8
How long will my child need to be in treatment?
Here, you want to get a sense that the philosophy is to minimize time away from home and that there are clear rules about length of stay.
All that has been done about this one is Lies!!
#9 their down time is 1 hour in which they have to read & write their mail, rest, do school work
# 10 If a child comes in there on meds. they take them off.
question 4...No they don't have this...and one of their favorite statements is on how great the kids manipulating & no they don't have access to any hotline or phone!
procedure that allows a child to complain to someone at a higher level of authority than the person who makes the usual treatment decisions about him, without fear of retaliation. If you hear something like "the children are always lying and manipulating" in response to a question like this, you want a different provider. Also, ask if there are state hotlines to which the child has access for complaints.
-
No one can...This is one of the things that upsets me so much and drives everyone who knows my daughter crazy!!. Everyone ask the same thing Why is she in there for so long, but it is true...she had Never been in trouble before! I can send a copy of her court papers to anyone. One thing I found out After she was in there it is a long term place, not 30 days, 4 months or 6 months! And they said in front of me that they know many parents and kids are lied to about the lenth of time. Most are told 4 to 6 months. I truly think it is about the money thay get from the state and if they like you are not, because there is no time limit on it. Other than they can't keep a child past their 19 birthday.
Will this post stay on if someone does come on from Florida? I don't know to much about forms
Thank You
-
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... &forum=9&6 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=14061&forum=9&6)
-
floridatresure, who's PAYING for the program? If it's you try not sending them money and pleading poverty. She might then "graduate from the program" so fast it'd make your head spin.
An individual who should survive his physical death is beyond my comprehension, nor do I wish it; such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls.
--Albert Einstein
-
She just said it was money from the state.
-
I don't know where in FL you are, but it looks like the UF Levin College of Law has some advocacy programs that you may want to contact.
Call ALL of these, even if it looks like they can't help you on their pages. Trust me when I say that law students and professors are the most passionate about what they do. They won't be so jaded and tell you that there's nothing they can do to help. It says at the website that they can represent people in different circuits. Also, if they can't help you, ask them who can.
http://www.law.ufl.edu/centers/childlaw/ (http://www.law.ufl.edu/centers/childlaw/)
http://www.law.ufl.edu/centers/hawkins/ (http://www.law.ufl.edu/centers/hawkins/)
http://www.law.ufl.edu/centers/welfare/ (http://www.law.ufl.edu/centers/welfare/)
http://www.law.ufl.edu/centers/juvenile/ (http://www.law.ufl.edu/centers/juvenile/)
You also should contact your local ACLU.
http://www.aclufl.org/ (http://www.aclufl.org/)
Good luck. It's great to see a parent who is this concerned.
-
Also consider contacting Rep. Gus Barreiro, R-Miami Beach, who is calling for the closure of all Boot Camps following the death of Martin Lee Anderson. He?s also spoken out against other issues that negatively affect youth.
Even if he can?t help you immediately, he needs to know what?s happened to kids and parents in other Florida programs.
Good luck.
Gus Barreiro [email protected]
-
Floridatreasure, I've read your story. I would think your next call is to the court. Get a copy of the court order.
This is how I would do it: bring a copy of the court order with you when you pick up your daughter... like TOMORROW, wave it in their faces, and point out the line you will have HIGHLIGHTED that reads: THIRTY DAYS, and tell them that if they don't release her, you will come back with law enforcement.
And that should not be an idle threat. If that court order specifically STATES 30 days, then they are violating a law by keeping her, and the Sheriff's Department must abide the law. If they don't release her, call the cops.
What county are you in, BTW?
Disclaimer, I am not a lawyer, but my ex-husband's attorney (who lost) will vouch for the fact that ya don't wanna mess with me in a courtroom. :grin:Under the benign influence of our republican institutions, and the maintenance of peace with all nations whilst so many of them were engaged in bloody and wasteful wars, the fruits of a just policy were enjoyed in an unrivaled growth of our faculties and resources.
James Madison
[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2006-02-24 16:03 ]
-
Law and common sense aren't the same thing.
You have to save the money to pay a lawyer. If legal aid won't help you, and the ACLU won't help you, you've got to pay a lawyer.
How you usually make a prison or someplace release a prisoner they can't legally hold is you file a habeas corpus petition. This is a private facility, not a prison, and so I'm not sure of the legal issues. I'm not a lawyer, you need a lawyer.
If you're dirt poor, legal aid should be willing to file the petition for you or file asking for a hearing before a family court judge to revisit your daughter's status, since the initial order was for 30 days.
Point is, someone is going to have to into court and file the proper motions or the facility is just going to do whatever the hell they want as long as the state keeps paying them.
If you're poor, get legal aid. If you're not *that* poor, save the money.
Julie
-
You might also contact Cathy Corry at
Justice 4 Kids
http://www.justice4kids.org./ (http://www.justice4kids.org./)
Our children need your voice! If you have information regarding abuse, neglect, harassment, intimidation or discrimination of children in any state or local governmental institution, please contact justice4kids.org at
727-799-9762, or click Contact Us
If you wish to provide written testimony on "issues related to the care and treatment of youth by the Department of Juvenile Justice", contact Rep. Gus Barreiro's staff director, Jim DeBeaugrine 850-488-6204.
Click Justice Appropriations Committee 10/20/05 - Gus Barreiro, Chair to see video archive of Schembri testimony.
T Shirt Quote:
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and used against you!"
OR "will be labeled manipulation and used against you."
-
The state is paying for this..I would NOT pay them a dime
-
Thank you for this information, I will call enyone and everyone that I can to help get my daughter out of there.I worry what this is going to do to her for years to come. She is a precious daughter and I was a Fool to trust in them!!
-
Thank you for your response,The court parpers does not state 30 days this is what I said I would agree to, then they said it was for 4 to 6 mos. I begged, cried, pleaded for them not to send her to this program for 4 months. When we went back to court a time limit was never stated.They court papers states "This child is hereby committed to the Department of Juvenile Justice for placement in moderate risk program. It states Conditional Release. The placement is for an indeterminate period but no longer that the child's 19th birthday, the maximum sentence allowed by law, Or until otherwise released and discharged, wich ever comes first"... there is a lot more wording in this paper , it also states "The court retains jurisdiction over discharge from commitment" "Participate in and complete counseling programs deemed appropriate"
"Child was committed to a moderate risk program with conditional release"
It was the Department of Juvenile Justice that we talked to mostly, to be honest we did not really know who all we was talking to until After we got all of the paper work After she went to court. I think I had stated before that not even the judge had said a time or date, everything is left up to the wilderness program When she will be released!They had told us she could be locked up for 7 years!! Or she could go to this Great program that is all about Helping her! But All along we was being told it would Only be for a short time! It wasn't untill after they (wilderness program)
had her there for over a Month that we found out that they was a long term program and she would be there for a while, But they was still saying my daughter would Not be there that long!!Then when I started questioning them and telling them that we was Lied to about her time being in there, her time kept getting longer!! They say that the girls have to complete a "Master Treatment Plan" before they can go to transions which is another 6 mos.. Well my daughter Has completed her Master Treatment Plan, and they just told her last week "Stop asking when you will be transfered, you will be here a least 13 to 14 mos. before we will even talk about you going to transions" I Truly thought she would have been out after a few months, and I didn't even want her in anyplace over 30 days! This has been a nightmare that Just won't end!! and I am so Very worried about my daughter. Each letter she writes me she just don't think she can hold on much longer. She has been getting sick a lot and they told her it was because she is so stressed!!I asked them didn't they worry about if a gril was pushed to far and had a complete breakdown, their reply to me was "Well this is the best place for this to happen" They Are the Reason she is falling apart!!
-
To Helena Handbasket ...I wish you was here, You are the type of person my daughter and I need right now.I used to be able to use my brain and no one had more fight in them than I did, but with all of the stress and with FMS my brain just doesn't work like it used to. I have prayed for God to just give me the strenth and to Please give me a clear head and to stop the "brain fog" (that is what people with FMS calls it when we just can't think clear) to be able to help my daughter, but the more stress I get under the worse it gets.Everytime I have tried anything by talking to anyone in the Juvenile justice system, my daughters time gets longer. I am to the point now where I don't trust anyone in the "system" and I did not want to get this way. I have always taught my daughter to do the right thing, beleive in our "system", I even encourged her to be totaly honest and to open up to the people at the wilderness camp and let them "Help" her...that was in the beginning.
-
Julie, Why I was asking about finding a lawyer that would take payments is because it will take longer to save up the money ...I then retain a lawyer, go through the courts, then get her released...I am not *dirt poor* I just don't have thousands of dollars...I want my precious baby girl home "8 months ago" she has been in there for 8 1/2 months!! I just thought there may be some one who knew how I could go about doing this on my own considering I don't have tousands of dollars & I am sure I am not the only parent out there that is in the same shape I am in.I think that is how a lot of these places keep these kids for so long...they are getting paid by the state and they know the parents can not afford to get a lawyer, and the legal aid has about a 8 month waiting list.
-
Thank You for this information I will contact justice 4 kids and Gus Barrelo, this place is called a "wilderness camp" they said not a boot camp, but what they do to these kids is the Same thing to me!
I love this;
T Shirt Quote:
"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted and used against you!"
OR "will be labeled manipulation and used against you."
This is SO true!
-
On 2006-02-26 08:30:00, floridatreasure wrote:
...They court papers states "This child is hereby committed to the Department of Juvenile Justice for placement in moderate risk program. It states Conditional Release. The placement is for an indeterminate period but no longer that the child's 19th birthday, the maximum sentence allowed by law, Or until otherwise released and discharged, wich ever comes first"... there is a lot more wording in this paper , it also states "The court retains jurisdiction over discharge from commitment" "Participate in and complete counseling programs deemed appropriate"
"Child was committed to a moderate risk program with conditional release"
FT, I think contacting Cathy Corry would be a good idea. Because, based on what you said the court document stated, they legally have the right to keep her until the program deems her worthy of discharge, and even then, the court is retaining jurisdiction over her until she is nineteen - meaning, that even if she graduates the program tomorrow, the county court still holds jurisdiction, and is legally able to make you two dance until her nineteenth birthday.
And I'm a little busy to quote piece by piece, but let me tell you about Juvenile Justice... I've worked with them, and I know that their decision basis is a computerized "expert system" (very rudimentary, imho), where they plug in vital statistics.... age, how many offenses... are the parents married, etc. This is literally akin to consulting an 8-ball!
It's sickening, and the stuff of B Movies, but it's true. Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.
--Winston Churchill
-
Thank You again, I have sent emails out to I think 4 different people or places today from information I have gotten from here. I am praying that someone contacts me back.
My daughter had no other offenses before all this happened. Her Dad and myself Was married until all of this happened, I have not heard from him since she was put in the camp.I am sure he is scared to try and contact me, as well as he should be. He knew that everything he did to her would come out! He is the one that should be locked up Not my Daughter!! When I pushed about him being arrested for what he did to her their response was "Well She is safe from him now" Excuse me but that is No reason Not to go after him, she wouldn't be in this nightmare if it wasn't for him.
Thank You again, for your help.
-
There are pepole out there that will go and get your little girl out of there for you and bring her home where she belongs.
-
That would be wonderful, but she is court ordered to be there. I wish it was that easy to have my precious daughter back home where she definitely belongs. I wished I had found this site Before she went to court, I would have fought tooth and nail. I was naive about the legal system, But if I can help Any other child from going through this I will by writing as many letters sending as many emails that I can, once I have my baby girl back in my arms and safe.
-
On 2006-02-26 12:12:00, floridatreasure wrote:
"Thank You again, I have sent emails out to I think 4 different people or places today from information I have gotten from here. I am praying that someone contacts me back.
My daughter had no other offenses before all this happened. Her Dad and myself Was married until all of this happened, I have not heard from him since she was put in the camp.I am sure he is scared to try and contact me, as well as he should be. He knew that everything he did to her would come out! He is the one that should be locked up Not my Daughter!! When I pushed about him being arrested for what he did to her their response was "Well She is safe from him now" Excuse me but that is No reason Not to go after him, she wouldn't be in this nightmare if it wasn't for him.
Thank You again, for your help.
"
FT... I admit, I've had a hard time following along - but if your husband - her father "did something to her", then that's known in law as a "mitigating circumstance". "Mitigating" means - a circumstance that she was IN that brought about her actions for the sake of her survival, or as an emotional result of the action that happened.
If it is a fact that she was molested - then you should follow the "Mitigating circumstances" path.
My opinions may have changed, but not the fact that I am right.
-- Ashleigh Brilliant
-
HH... but if your husband - her father "did something to her", then that's known in law as a "mitigating circumstance". "Mitigating" means - a circumstance that she was IN that brought about her actions for the sake of her survival, or as an emotional result of the action that happened.
If it is a fact that she was molested - then you should follow the "Mitigating circumstances" path
....That is what I thought,If I had known what had happened to her in the beginning I would have done a lot worse than beat his truck up!!
When I asked about this a while back I was told "She broke the law and she has to pay for that" and also "That this place is the best place for her, because she needs help to deal with what has happened and how to control herself even when things go wrong"
This is what the people at the wilderness camp and juv.justice told me.
I still think it comes down to the money they get from the state and the control over a child.
-
DISCLAIMER: I am not a lawyer. Nothing I say constitutes specific legal advice.
Okay, with the additional information about what it says on the legal papers, now I think I understand. Tell me if I've got it:
Your daughter was on probation for something else and a couple of weeks later got charged with assault with a deadly weapon.
If they were talking about 7 years, and she's 15, then they had to have at one point talked about charging her as an adult?
Okay, so anyway, they charged her as a juvenile, and she went to family court and got convicted either of assault with a deadly weapon or some lesser charge. Am I right so far?
That violated her probation on the earlier charge, so she now has the two charges to deal with. Altogether, the maximum sentence for what she's found guilty of probably exceeds four years, so that would put her potentially there until she's 19. This is where I have a question:
What was the exact charge she was convicted on for hitting her father with the pan? It matters (a lot) whether it was assault with a deadly weapon or a lesser charge.
Instead of sentencing her to a particular amount of time in juvie, the judge court ordered her to this Program---in effect, he sentenced her to be there. His sentence was for an indefinite period of time, so she could be there until her 19th birthday.
It doesn't matter to the courts or the law how long you were willing for her to be gone---if she's sentenced, she's sentenced. And she has been. It doesn't matter (to the law) how long they told you she'd be there, since what they verbally told you or told you in writing doesn't have any legal weight next to that sentence from the judge.
What you have here is your child has been convicted of a crime and sentenced to jail---with this wilderness camp being the particular form of jail she was sent to.
If I got convicted of breaking into someone's house and got sentenced to 5 to 10 years, then I wouldn't know how long I was going to be in jail. I'd know I wouldn't be in jail any longer than 10 years, but when I actually got out would depend on if I could get any time off for good behavior or if I came up for parole and could talk the parole board into letting me go. Mostly parole boards let people go because the jail is crowded and they need the cell for more dangerous people who have done worse stuff more recently. We get told all sorts of fancy reasons, but overcrowding and the costliness of keeping people in jail is the real one.
Your child is in a very similar situation. She won't be in wilderness jail any longer than her 19th birthday. However, with "good behavior" and if they get enough kids in the wilderness jail that they're getting kindof crowded and need that "bed" for a new inmate, they may let her go home sooner.
With her already convicted, sentenced, and serving her time, usually at this point there isn't a whole lot a defense attorney can do.
Your daughter's honest to God best shot at coming home soonest is to not rock the boat and to learn to play their game and tell them what they want to hear. Hard truth? She needs to learn how to act and manipulate like a master.
The facility wants to keep the state happy. The state wants to keep the voters happy by looking like the juvenile justice system is doing a good job, cheap. The facility and state will want to kick loose some of these kids early. If your daughter is the best actress pretending to be a good little Stepford Teen, she'll be one of the top ones on the list to be kicked loose to come home.
But when she comes home will still be highly variable because it depends on how much crowding there is in the system generating pressure to turn people loose early.
For future reference, the time to mortgage your house and your firstborn grandchild to pay a good criminal defense attorney is before the court date.
As late as it is now, the more you rock the boat, the more you'll piss them off and the more likely it is that your daughter will be there until her 19th birthday.
I do not *want* all this to be true. I merely understand that it more than likely *is* true.
You should consult a good criminal defense attorney with experience in juvenile cases. You should have all your documentation gathered together when you meet with him to reduce how much time it takes him to go through it all. There might be something he can turn to your daughter's advantage.
You should listen to what your attorney says and follow his advice---even if that advice is totally what you don't want to hear.
He may well tell you that the only thing your daughter can do at this point is kiss lots of ass.
Like I said, I don't like telling you this. It sucks, and, as a mother, I can just imagine how you must feel.
Julie
-
Oh, by the way, don't even wait to save up the whole amount for a defense attorney to take your daughter's case all the way through an appeal or something. Start saving, but don't wait.
It will *probably* only cost you a few hundred dollars to have a defense attorney go over your daughter's case from stem to stern and tell you what, if anything, he could do for your daughter if you hired him.
Don't bother worrying about the whole retainer for the case at this point. Just retain the guy to find out if there's any hint of a possibility of a legal rabbit down there in the corners of the hat.
Julie
-
As hard as it is to hear this I Pray that it doesn't happen this way. There are a few other girls that their Mothers had a lawyer go back in front of a judge and get their daughters felony changed to a misdemeanor and they are getting out soon. The total time they will have spent in there is 1 year. My daughter has already been in there for 8 1/2 months. I tried to talk to one of the mothers to see how and who she used..Big mistake!
As far as my daughter's behavior in there all of the paperwork I get from there states how good she is doing, how polite she is, how she strives to keep peace in there, but yet they will give her a hard time about just about anything. From the brand of clothes I buy for her to her calling me Mommy, ect.
I hope this is what you need for the question (What was the exact charge she was convicted on for hitting her father with the pan? It matters (a lot) whether it was assault with a deadly weapon or a lesser charge. ....
Yes she was on probation for tearing her dad's truck up...it was 3F statue 806.13 criminal mischief, because of the amount of the damage, &.... 1M Battery statue 784.03 (I don't know what the 1M means).
Then the incident happened with her & her father & the pan.... She got charged with 1M Battery statue 784.045 (lal) on that ,and that violated her probation. She is in there on Violation of Probation Felony and it is to run Concurrent with both cases.
It was Not brought up in court about the 7 years, Juv.Justice told me that when I found out about it was supposed to be she would be in there for 4 to 6 mos. which was a lie, no one is there just for 4 to 6 months. Then when I got the court papers (after she was at the camp) I read it at the bottom of the first page. It states "The Maximum Sentence Allowed By Law Is 7 years, but it doesn't state that she was getting that. And at no time did anyone talk or mention to us that she could be tried as an adult. She has Never been in any trouble before.
It is hard to Find a Good lawyer that will have her best interest at heart and really fight for her. I called Florida Bar Ass. and got some phone # from them, But did not find a lawyer.
-
JULIE....I have called some lawyers but so far I haven't had any luck.It is So upsetting to me that it is so very hard to find a Good lawyer that will fight for my daughter....that is one reason I have been searching the web (and how I found this forum)
If you or any one esle out there knows a Lawyer that Really cares about the child and what is best for her in central fl. Please let me know...
Thank You
-
You really need to let the court know that her father has been molesting her, etc. This is why she did what she did to him and the car. She should not be punished for these acts.
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
-
On 2006-02-26 21:15:00, nite owl wrote:
"You really need to let the court know that her father has been molesting her, etc. This is why she did what she did to him and the car. She should not be punished for these acts. The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
"
I agree. People/children have been found "not at fault" because of abuses they had endured by their "victims" previous to an assult.
I personally know and worked for a women who 20 yrs ago slept w/ a gun because her husband abused her often late at night. One night he came home yelling and threatening her, but to his suprise she shot him dead from under the covers.. She took his body to the local dump and drove on to work at the local hospital...all charges were dropped due to "mitagating circumstances" due to the abuse she had suffered from him. This woman told me this when giving me advice about my own situation years ago. I checked it out, and it was all true. The documents still exist at the county courthouse. I think her point was for me to start documenting the abuse I was dealing with, incase....I ever needed the proof.
In NO way does your kids actions measure up to murder.... I say get on that "mitagating circumstances" wagon and ride it all the way to the judges doorstep. A child who is molested especially by a family member is almost above all laws, no matter their "crime". And a state who will not reconize the previous abuse, imo, is neglegent to the care and well-being of children. That could create a case against the State of Fla.
-
" You really need to let the court know that her father has been molesting her, etc. This is why she did what she did to him and the car. She should not be punished for these acts."
That is what I thought!! If I had known what had happened to her in the beginning I would have done a lot worse than beat his truck up!!
When I asked about this a while back I was told "She broke the law and she has to pay for that" and also "That this place is the best place for her, because she needs help to deal with what has happened and how to control herself even when things go wrong"
....This is what the people at the wilderness camp and juv.justice told me. I have not been able to get back in front of the judge, that is one of the things I was wanting to find out here....how can I get back in front of the judge?....
I still think it comes down to the money they get from the state and the control over a child.
-
Okay, so they didn't try her as an adult, the crimes just had a maximum of 7 years.
I'm not sure when you say you've had no luck getting a lawyer if you mean that you've talked to lawyers and they wouldn't take your case or that you can't find a criminal defense attorney that handles juvenile cases at all.
If the latter, then you can call your local Bar Association and ask for a referral to a criminal defense attorney that handles juvenile cases.
Timeliness matters a lot in legal proceedings, and the time to raise issues of molestation as a factor in self-defense is at trial, and the time to raise it as a mitigating factor is at the sentencing hearing.
If your daughter's defense attorney didn't raise it, then another attorney might be able to get in on the grounds that her counsel was incompetent.
The thing is, right now your daughter is a convicted felon and her word that she was molested or your secondhand word that you believe her isn't worth much. Your lawyer could, maybe, get her interviewed by a psychiatrist to evaluate her and try to determine if she's been abused.
That's pretty iffy.
You may find it very hard to prove she was molested.
Julie
-
FT: I've always suspected, because of the people making policy in Florida over the past few years, that they were probably doing about the same thing in the public sector gulags as they've done to us kids in their private ones. They are some soulless bastards because they truly believe they're saving our children from the sorrow of being anything at all like us. They believe it just as much as the people who are throwing bomb laden virgins at our friends and soldiers believe what they do.
"Tough Love: Abuse of a type particularly enjoyable to the abuser, in that it combines the pleasures of sadism with those of self-righteousness. Commonly employed and widely admired in 12-step groups. "
--Chaz Bufe
I'll tell you what I told a guy at a protest a couple of weeks ago. It was open meeting night at a Straight spin off called Kids Helping Kids in Milford, Ohio. One of the parents walked up the drive to ask us what we were doing, why the protest. We gave him a flyer showing all the brush offs and shady business between the state licensing agency and some concerned former clients of Straight. Everybody's telling him "hey, man, this is a cult, you know it. Get your kid out..." things along those lines. He says it's his step son and he's only been there a week and a half. I told him he'd probably get in trouble for talking to us and that he'd better go in there, humor them, say just what they want to hear till he could get his boy. I hope that he did and I hope you do too.
Now, look at the very last paragraph of this page:
The infiltration of Operation PAR by Straight
http://www.thestraights.com/articles/operationpar.htm (http://www.thestraights.com/articles/operationpar.htm)
"In 1979 when drug store magnet Jack Eckerd wanted more GOP candidates elected to the state legislature he hired Jack Latvala and moved him to Pinellas County. Mel Sembler builds shopping centers for his good friend Jack Eckerd (now deceased). Another place Logan and his team sends wayward kids is to Eckerd Wilderness which was started by Jack Eckerd. "
Julie, do you begin to see why I'm not all a flutter with joy and excitement when I hear the state regulators are mounting up to save the day? Broward, and I would imagine some other counties contracts the local Sheriff's department to perform CYS calls. A call to CYS is a call to the prosecutor, plus the agency taking custody gets a bounty. A few years back, one of these fine officers got busted prostituting a 15yo girl to other officers down around the county line somewhere.
Now, I'n that special? It was of particular interest to me at the time because my teenaged daughter was hanging around some interesting people then. Local cops seemed to like that just fine, till they needed a witness against him. Then they became real interested in "helping" her with whatever problems they could conjure up for her.
Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize an undercover dictatorship. To restrict the art of healing to one class of men, and deny equal privilege to others, will be to constitute the Bastille of medical science. All such laws are un-American and despotic, and have no place in a Republic. The Constitution of this Republic should make special privilege for medical freedom as well as religious freedom.
--Abridged quote-Benjamin Rush, M.D., a signer of the Declaration of Independence
-
Ginger, I get it. I've always gotten it. Parts of the system have been and are extremely corrupt.
I just believe it's possible to, locally and for awhile, fix the system.
The system is like a junker of a car where there are always a bazillion things corroded and wrong with it. Parts of it are ugly--usually the ones most hidden from sight. It frequently breaks down completely. It always needs more parts replaced than you can afford. If you don't run it carefully, your brakes can fail or you can have a blowout on the highway and it can get you killed.
Still, you use it and replace as many parts as you can afford, the next most needed first, and you drive it very carefully, because it gets you from here to there and it's the only car you've got.
I know the system sucks, but trying to replace the worst broken parts and drive it is the quickest, surest, and most efficient way to get from here to there.
But yes, it's a rickety car and a lot of its parts are rusted, corroded, and corrupted. But it still runs and you can still steer it---the power steering is out, you just have to muscle it around.
If you haven't already, go read about the Battle of Athens, Tennessee.
It's possible to force the system back onto the road---at least for awhile.
Julie
-
What Im wondering is just how much worse will this get before you see violent protests :???: and considering how well armed BOTH sides would be in places like florida, Im not looking forwards to that.
Well, that and the media coverup... THAT would be a sight to behold in this day and age (internet, etc.)
BTW, Eudora, nobodys seen ya online in aim or yim, whats up?
-
Julie, I'd rather walk, thanks very much.
Niles, I've just been busy, that's all. Rebooted awhile back and never got around to running the chat clients. They're on now.
In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
--Martin Luther King
-
I was asked my opinion on this situation so here goes. The crucial piece is the court order. It is not unusual to see a child in the system get committed to the Dept. of Juvenile Justice until age 19. It is however very unusual to see a court order state that a child is commited to a particular placement for that time. While a child is in the Juvenile Justice system, they, not the parents are the legal guardians regardless of which parent had custody once they have been committed to a facility. One thing I would try to get though is a copy of your daughter's master treatment plan and all of its updates. The program must justify keeping her there in writing and that is where you will get answers.
To err is human; to forgive is simply not our policy.
-- MIT Assasination Club slogan
-
She has completed her master treatment plan. I have not gotten all of her updates from them, but they have stated she has finished her MTP.Is this important to the judge and djj?
-
If she has completed her Master Treatment Plan they must provide an updated revision otherwise there is no reason for her to still be there. I'd check with them once more and if you don't get a copy of the revision I want you to go back to the judge and let him know.
-
Last post is mine. Don't understand how I get logged out when I move from forun to forum.
When we talk to god, it's prayer. When god talks to us, it's schizophrenia.
--Lily Tomlin, American actress
-
I don't want to upset them, I am trying to keep the peace...Should I just call them and ask them for a update on her MTP? How do I get back in front of the judge? This is been one of my Big problems.
-
I guess setting up an appointment with her caseworker at the program may be the easiest way to get answers. Then they can tell you why your daughter is still there and what she is required to do in order to complete the program.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright
-
Hello Three Springs,
I am sorry I am just getting back to you, and Thank you for your concern. I had gotten pretty sick and down over all of this with my daughter. Also she is on her weekend homesday visit now, I have to take her back Monday. She just breaks down and cries so much, she said to me "Mom I just don't think I can hold on much longer, I feel like I am loosing my mind because of the mind games they are playing" My Daughter was a happy-go-lucky type of daughter, she had a smile that would light up a room when she walked into one, and now I see such sadness in her eyes, and she is so nervous.
As for your questions
Yes she was ordered by the court,
and no I haven't been back in front of the judge ....that has been what I have been trying to find out how to do..
If you can give me Any help in How can I see the judge Please let me know.
-
Send her to a friend and claim she ran away.
-
Run like fuck. Just take her and GO to someone you trust, preferably in another state. Worry about legalities later. The odds of the authorities catching up with you are slim to none (they have bigger things to worry about).
DON'T SIT HERE READING THIS! GO!!
-
(By the way, I'm a fictional character, and I'm responsible for the last two posts. Whether or not you choose to take my advice is up to you, as I don't really exist. Doesn't stop me from kicking programmie ass, though.)
-
Take her to a personal injury atty who works with a good psyche/medical team in another state to document the effects of the abuse. Stay there, don't come anywhere near Florida till it's time to testify against these lunatics. Even then, I'd keep your daughter out of their reach till at least her 18th birthday!
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-- Robert Heinlein
-
If you have not taken her back I am with the others - don't. Have you read about what happened to Martin Lee Anderson recently? And others like him? I know you are probably scared and intimidated by them. They are scary and intimidating people. But if you have any way to get out of the state with your daughter then why not do it, get to a lawyer and explain the situation, and go from there. How old is she? How long until she's 18? The damage they are doing to her could be irreversible if you continue to send her back. She will evenually blame you for taking her back there rather than do anything you could to protect her. At least that's how I would feel if I had told my mom that someone was abusing me and she kept taking me back. I don't care if they are the state, you are her mother, and it is your first responsibility to protect her - no one else is doing it, obviously. Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
-
WOW...I am Shaking, My heart is pounding.....and I am in tears right now.....after reading these post. I had to take her back...PLEASE understand I love her with all of my heart & I Want her Home with me SO Bad It rips my heart out to take her back......
Three Springs, Endora Please email me at [email protected] as soon as you can.
Three Springs I have a lot of questions to ask you!!
I hope everyone else understands why I am asking TS & E to email me privately.....I AM SCARED to Death right now....BUT I want to Thank each and everyone of you for your support ...advice...and concern...
-
To Everyone....My Daughter read all of the post while she was home and it really touched her how many people cared enough to write a post. She read them over and over, it really made her feel good that everyone is concerened and she wanted me to Thank everyone of you. She was going to post, but we had to go to her doctor and a bunch of other places, our time just ran out.
So I am Thanking you all from Both of us
PLEASE keep her in your prayers that things goes good and she is home REAL soon
-
Thank You TS....Any help will be great
-
TS would you mind sending me your msn screenname again, I tried the one you sent to me, but it came back to me at my email address
Thanks,
-
:flame: Everyone Please excuse me if I am ranting right now..But if I don't say something to people that I know will understand how I feel I think I will explode!! I have not posted to much info lately out of fear of my post getting to the "wrong" people, BUT right now I can not contain myself. I have tried to do everything the right way and the safe way for the beneficent of my Precious Daughter...but they have gone to far this time!!
My daughter had 2 medical conditions occur ... her personal doctor ( which she seen on her homesday)had her limited to very little movement and had her on pain meds. and also she had to go to the hospital this past home visit because of a injury to her leg. They(hospital) had her on 7 days rest with pain meds and antibiotic meds. she was told in writing to rest for 7 days and to keep the wounds clean and dry. Her personal Doctor told her in writing .."no bending, squatting, excess walking, not to lift anything over 15lbs. , no kneeling. These restrictions is for 3 months...The orders from the hospital was for 7 days ..rest, not walking and to keep the leg clean and dry, to take her meds. WELL I just got a letter from my Precious child.....They (camp) took her off of her meds the FIRST day she was back.(she is in PAIN and needs her meds!) has had her walking everywhere, had her sitting all day ..the second day she was back they didn't get to take showers, so she could NOT clean her wound, the hospital wrote in Big letters about her keeping it clean and dry and to have 7 days rest!! Now that is 2 different doctors two different situations and these people don't have to follow ANYTHING either doctor says, & they can take her meds away!! This is SO WRONG. My daughter goes through Enough HELL down there...HOw can they disregard Everything 2 different doctors has ordered!!!> Please Someone Anyone explain this to me!
Her personal doctor had MRI's done on her spine and knee....she has moderate facet joint degenerative changes at L4-5, mild facet joint degenerative at L5-S1 (Bone Spurs), also fluid in the suprapatellar bursa in her knee, now mind you she had NONE of this Before she went to "camp"...but Yet they can do this....to her by taking away her meds and making her do everything that 2 different doctors said she COULD NOT DO!!!
Thank You for letting me rage on here...The thought of my baby Suffering more and more is Killing ME!
-
Hi TS, I am not sure what a troll is...like I said I am new to posting on forums, but Thank You for knowing I am the Real deal. Trust me there is SO much more I want to say but am just to worried about it hurting my efforts and my daughter.
THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart for not going back to that place, Please give me time to get my baby girl home safe and in my arms and I will Give you any info you want. I know I am taking a BIG chance by posting this much info on the forum tonight, but knowing what they are doing Right now to my Precious Daughter ..if I don't express just some of what I am feeling I don't think I will hold up, my hands are shaking so bad right now!! I used to be a Very strong woman, but they have beat me down in so many ways with my daughter, and they know they have that almighty control...just like this latest mess...they are letting her suffer in Pain just to mess with her and knowing they are getting away with it...for Now!!!
:flame:
-
On 2006-03-25 22:47:00, floridatreasure wrote:
"Hi TS, I am not sure what a troll is...like I said I am new to posting on forums, but Thank You for knowing I am the Real deal. Trust me there is SO much more I want to say but am just to worried about it hurting my efforts and my daughter.
THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart for not going back to that place, Please give me time to get my baby girl home safe and in my arms and I will Give you any info you want. I know I am taking a BIG chance by posting this much info on the forum tonight, but knowing what they are doing Right now to my Precious Daughter ..if I don't express just some of what I am feeling I don't think I will hold up, my hands are shaking so bad right now!! I used to be a Very strong woman, but they have beat me down in so many ways with my daughter, and they know they have that almighty control...just like this latest mess...they are letting her suffer in Pain just to mess with her and knowing they are getting away with it...for Now!!!
:flame:
"
But when I read your posts I cant help but hear your thick southern accent.
-
The prison or equivalent screwing with your kid's medical care is the kind of thing you get a lawyer and sue their asses over.
I'm not a lawyer, see your lawyer.
Having a case doesn't always mean you should sue.
What you're talking about would be something your lawyer would call "cruel and unusual punishment."
Get a sympathetic judge, either initially or on appeal, and you might get traction with the claim.
But do it quickly. A huge fraction of good cases that lose, lose because of timeliness issues in the filing of the cases or of various motions/paperwork involved with the cases.
Get a lawyer *now* and take his advice.
Julie
-
We are going to our 2nd lawyer Monday at 4:00p.m.
Yes I am going to talk to him about what is going on with her medical...just about everyone here that knows her (daughter) wants me to sue them...but all I want is my precious Baby Girl home where I can take care of her.
How DARE them to stop her meds. and make her be in More Pain!!! Good Lord I am Mad that they are making my baby girl walk around in pain and it is cold tonight which makes it worse! Haven't they caused her enough pain in her heart and soul!! :flame:
-
residents are supposed to have unrestricted access to a child abuse hotline.
They Don't have use of any kind to a hotline, and even if they did they are to afraid to use it!
My daughter is terrified to talk to anyone Even the lawyer, she is scared they will keep her longer and make it even harder on her there!
If your daughter was taken off her meds by the camp nurse, then well.. that my dear.. is child abuse.
The nurse took her off of her meds. I have called there everyday since I took her back on Monday and No One told me she was off of her meds.!! God this is so darn hard to deal with :flame:
-
But when I read your posts I cant help but hear your thick southern accent
Yep, You are right, but how can you tell?
-
Get a sympathetic judge, either initially or on appeal, and you might get traction with the claim.
We have no choice in the judge, we go back in front to the same judge and he is Not sympathetic....from what I understand he totally supports the wilderness camp.
-
On 2006-03-26 00:19:00, floridatreasure wrote:
"But when I read your posts I cant help but hear your thick southern accent
Yep, You are right, but how can you tell?
"
Well,I used to live near Brooksville,and I know the neighborhood quite well where the Eckerd Camp is located,near the Bellamy Brothers Ranch.Id be willing to bet you come from that area of Florida.
-
Hello Everyone, I am not from either area. I am in a very small town in Lake County. :smile:
Is anyone on here willing to write me through email...No ID... what their experiences was like in a wilderness camp or how they feel about these places...the reason I am asking is to take it to the lawyer, so he can here from others what these places are all about. Around here people really don't know nor do they understand how these places are. I would like for them to know I am not the only one who feels the way we do about these places, nor am I just an upset Mommy that wants her daughter home. Just about anyone I talk to truly does not know just how these places are. This is the first time this lawyer has taken on this camp. Any help by your words will be appreciated. I would just like for him to hear from others that TRULY knows these places.
TS if you could add anything it would be great.
This may sound crazy, But you have to understand where I live. It will only be for the lawyer, even if he will read them, but I think he will....
I am not asking for anyones personal info.
Thank You,
P/S I go back to the lawyer Thursday
_________________
missing my daughter[ This Message was edited by: floridatreasure on 2006-03-28 20:15 ][ This Message was edited by: floridatreasure on 2006-03-28 21:05 ]
-
Im a licensed professional.
Email me and I will do what I can.
I weild a considerable amount of influence over Eckerd Wilderness Camp.
-
On 2006-03-29 02:04:00, HelenPetermann wrote:
"Im a licensed professional.
Email me and I will do what I can.
I weild a considerable amount of influence over Eckerd Wilderness Camp."
This is definitely true in Palatka, and quite possibly throughout Putnam county! :rofl: All religion is dumb. It's one big story they're feeding you so you'll behave on Earth. If there is a god, then he's a prick.
--Howard Stern, American radio personality
-
Hello Licensed Professional, I don't have your email address...and I sent you a private message, but I have not heard back from you
-
On 2006-03-31 18:35:00, floridatreasure wrote:
"Hello Licensed Professional, I don't have your email address...and I sent you a private message, but I have not heard back from you
"
Shes a troll. Lots of people can do that online.
Trolls basically do shit for, well, shits and giggles, or to get rises out of people, or becuase of their sense of humor.
Some have a good one, such as DashBillions?. This person, however, is not - this troll is trying to make fun of Helen Peterman, who ran a splinter group from STRAIGHT inc. called "LIFE".
HelenaHandbasket was in LIFE back in 84. Peterman isnt the kind of person Id trust a hamster with, but this is all beside the point, because its just some stupid joker making posts about recieving ejaculation into her nose :roll:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... 59&forum=7 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=14659&forum=7)
-
On 2006-03-31 18:35:00, floridatreasure wrote:
"Hello Licensed Professional, I don't have your email address...and I sent you a private message, but I have not heard back from you
"
FT, "Helen Petermann" shown here is probably not the REAL Helen Petermann who ran a program called LIFE back in the '80s. Gotta watch out for trolls, babe.
You can lead a camel to water but you can't make it stink (any more than it already does)
-- Job
-
On 2006-04-01 18:52:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"TrOLLS WHERE WHERE WHERE???????
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-- George Carlin
"
Under the bridge, TSW... it's a 5 dollar toll.... both ways. Legalizing drugs is far from a panacea for all the distress caused by drugs, but it will eliminate most of the profit and corruption from the drug trade.
--Nobel laureate, Gary S. Becker
_________________
Where are we going, and what are we doing in this handbasket??
------
[ This Message was edited by: Helena Handbasket on 2006-04-01 19:06 ]
-
On 2006-04-01 19:31:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"5 dollah long time or 5 dollah short time?All religions have been made by men.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
"
Just one way, guy :smile:That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism.
--Thomas Henry Huxley, English biologist
-
On 2006-04-01 19:38:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Well screw it I am gonna make like an illegal cherry picker and swim the damn river. It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
Thomas Jefferson
"
uh-uh-uh... we got cherry pickers on your cherry picker! :rofl: If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.
Voltaire
-
Hello Everyone, I am learning....I guess I am just to trusting or should I say I Try to belive in people to much. It is a shame that we go to a place where we think people understand the pain & the anger you & your child are going through and we reach out for Great advice, help, or just to talk to people who have gone through what my Daughter and myself are going through now ,and then to have someone like that come on here and get my hopes up and have me waiting and waiting for a response. It seems like they would have better things to do than to mess with people and their emotions, BUT The GREAT people on here out number the ones like that person so much. This place has saved my sanity .. I THANK Each and Everyone of you that has taken the time out of your lives to respond by posting and given me such great sites to click on(and learn) and great advice.... and to the Wonderful ones that has emailed me and given me some Great help,advice, compassion and a True sense of caring for my Precious Daughter and myself. It feels so comforting to have someone to reach out to that Does Understand how heartbreaking these situations are. There are some Amazing people on here, and Boy has my eyes been opened up to what Really does go on in these(wilderness camps & boot camps), and Anyone and Everyone that will listen to me I am telling them and giving them sites to go to and read about these places(the camps). Big Smile..people really are starting to turn around when they see me coming, because they know I have read something new (well new to me) ....I am only kidding....they don't really run from me.....But I do tell Everyone to check out this site and some other sites that I have learned about from here.
I THANK Each one of you for All of your help....
-
BRAKE HER OUT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :tup:
-
Break her out might work better in this context....
:lol:
-
:question: what do you mean :question:
-
FloridTreasure, glad to hear from you. Hope your daughter is home by now or very soon. Glad you found some worthwhile people and useful resources here. But don't take the trolling too personally. Helen Peterman is so well known around here, I'm guessing they just didn't consider that you'd take that seriously. Just a fopaux, not vicious move.
But never mind all that. Thank YOU for listening to your gut, seeing through the malarkey and helping to raise a hew and cry. Whenever someone comes around on this issue and joins the faithful opposition, another angel gets their wings. Or kitten is spared, if you don't like the God reference. But I don't care much for cats. I think those Florida lizards are pertty cool, though... and who could hate them?
So, ok, another cool florida lizard wins his daring gambit, being the last to race accross the steaming sidewalk right between the bike tires w/o losing his nerve or his tail. Naturally, he gets the female too. So thanks, Florida Treasure, from all of us as well as those cool lizards.
Seriously. Just cause I'm being silly doesn't mean I don't care. I really do sleep better the more people see and understand our problem here. That's one less kid who will suffer in silence with their parents turned against them, plus anyone you influence. I deeply apreciate it more than I can tell you and at least as much as anything we've done for you.
If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for a reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist
-
Thank you so much Endora and TS, She is not home Yet, we go to court tomorrow morning at 11:00a.m.. I am still very concerned, because of a lot of different reasons, they (the camp) just do not want her released. But with the MRI's I just don't see how they can make her stay....As for an Angel getting her wings...I Do believe in God and the power of prayer, so if any of you believe the same way Please say a prayer that she gets to come home tomorrow.
I am always rushing the little lizards out of the way before they do get stepped on or smushed by someone or something. :smile: I have them everywhere around my house (outside) , but every now and then one or two will very bravely come into my house and I scoop them up and put them back outside. They are so funny to watch when they extend their neck and look at you and just set there and watch you watch them. I think they know they are cute.. :smile:
Oh I do talk to EVERYONE that will listen to me about this site and the Great knowledge a person can learn by taking the time to read different post. I have printed out information from different links and passed it out to people and asked them to pass it on to other people. MORE people truly Need to know just what these camps are about. Some one asked me the other day "Well do you feel like there are any kids that need to be in any of these camps" and I said NO!! Granted there are kids out there that can really do some bad things...but for the most part I believe that the majority of these kids are going to come out a lot worse off than they were to begin with, I believe their getting hurt (emotionally) & (physically) and are getting so much more confused by these places. I know that it takes a Very well trained person to deal with kids mixed up behaviors ...and that they DON'T get in these places. I think it is Wrong to use the tactics that is used. If we as parents was to do these things we would be carted off to jail!!!
I wished Every parent out there in private or public sector would know all of the stuff I have learned from here and from my Daughters experiences before they ever agreed to even a 30 day placement place. So I THANK You ALL for all of your wonderful help. I have a pretty big mouth when it is something I believe in and I DO believe everyone Should know and it should be on every page that says "Teen Help" when someone does a search of these places...I know it cant be...BUT it should be instead of having to search and search and search, and still have a hard time finding out the "truth" pages. It took me months to find you all.
Every one Please keep us in your Prayers and thoughts tomorrow morning. Thank You All
-
Hello Everyone, My Precious Baby Girl ::bigsmilebounce:: ::bigsmilebounce::
Thank You All for all of your support...
-
Fantastic!!!!!!!!!!! I'm soo happy for you and her both!!
::bigsmilebounce:: ::rocker:: :grin:
Can you give any details? I'm really so happy to hear this. I've wondered about how things were going and have followed as much as I could. Way to go Mom for having the guts to stand up to these people and do what's right for your daughter!!"
-
As soon as she is home with me I will give ALL of the details!! And BOY there are some Good ones ::bangin:: ::argue:: I can NOT wait until I get to tell you all what all happened in court....I am just playing it safe until my BABY GIRL is Back safe in my arms....
-
Congratulations! I can't wait to hear all the details.
-
On 2006-04-13 12:17:00, floridatreasure wrote:
I wished I could go right now, but I have to wait until the court gets all of the paper work faxed over to the camp.
I am just playing it safe until my BABY GIRL is Back safe in my arms....
Smart move. Sorry I prematurely asked for the details.
-
On 2006-04-13 12:17:00, floridatreasure wrote:
I wished I could go right now, but I have to wait until the court gets all of the paper work faxed over to the camp.
Wonder why they didn't say you could have just gone to the place with the originals and demanded your daughter? Good to hear about the 24 hours though, hope the camp doesn't take the opportunity to throw a wrench into things.
-
That is ok....Oh I want to tell everything now...I am so excited..but I just have to wait until she is HOME ...Boy that word sure has a different meaning now "HOME"
-
Don't scare me wrench could they through into it....the judge ordered her release...PLEASE explain is there something they could do to stop her release?????
-
On 2006-04-13 12:37:00, floridatreasure wrote:
"Don't scare me wrench could they through into it....the judge ordered her release...PLEASE explain is there something they could do to stop her release?????"
I don't think so, especially since this was done through the courts in the first place. I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to scare you. Honestly I don't think they can do anything under your circumstances. There have been cases where joint custodial parents have fought about whether or not to pull a kid and when the decision went the way of the parent in favor of pulling the kid, the other parent and staff would either move the kid or come up with a bullshit injunction. I don't think that will happen in your case. Sorry if my paranoia frightened you.
-
I'm so indescribably happy for you
Well done to all concerned.
On 2006-04-13 12:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-04-13 12:37:00, floridatreasure wrote:
"Don't scare me wrench could they through into it....the judge ordered her release...PLEASE explain is there something they could do to stop her release?????"
I don't think so, especially since this was done through the courts in the first place. I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to scare you. Honestly I don't think they can do anything under your circumstances. There have been cases where joint custodial parents have fought about whether or not to pull a kid and when the decision went the way of the parent in favor of pulling the kid, the other parent and staff would either move the kid or come up with a bullshit injunction. I don't think that will happen in your case. Sorry if my paranoia frightened you."
You see, that's the bit that people like me specialise in.[ This Message was edited by: MightyAardvark on 2006-04-13 12:50 ]
-
Excellent.
Just... excellent.
It can be done, people! Give your daughter all our regards from everyone at Fornits, Treasure.
-
:smile:
-
You may think you have gotten away this time,but next time,you'll see!
I NEVER GO AWAY!
Im going to get you next time,and your little dog too!
-
YAY! The good side wins!
Fornits becames a stronger voice every day
Hope today is as wonderful as can be for you and your daughter, Florida treasure
-
On 2006-04-14 00:28:00, Anonymous wrote:
"YAY! The good side wins!
Fornits becames a stronger voice every day
Hope today is as wonderful as can be for you and your daughter, Florida treasure"
Speaking of a stronger voice, why not let her speak if she wants to? We'd all like to hear it.
And more than a few websites would love to have her story as a warning for others.
-
Hello "Helen Petermann" I DON'T Think I have gotten away this time!! As far as the NEXT time ...well unless you all make up MORE lies there WON'T be a NEXT Time!!!! I just found out that you all are concerned or Worried enough about me to actually read my post...Well I am glad you all are, because.. EVERYTHING.. that has been said and what All is going to BE said is the TOTAL TRUTH,... but you all know that don't you!! A lot of "THE TRUTH" came out in court!!!
As far as "the next time you are going to get me and my little dog too"....WELL do you mean my daughter's lawyer or my daughter?
It is funny I am just a loving Mother and I am not afraid to have my name on here(under profile)...but you (and I think I know who you are) hide behind a name with no information on yourself. :flame: BUT make NO mistake when it comes to my Precious Daughter I am worse than a mother lion as far as protecting her & fighting for her :flame: .....I WILL fight to my LAST breath to keep her safe and Home where she BELONGS!!! You all Hate it when a Mother speaks the TRUTH and stands UP for HER child. We have been lied to way to many times over the last 10 1/2 months!!! Even today!!
So if you are NOT ashamed of who you are or Worried about your place of employment then why not put your info on the profile part of this site!!.. Just make SURE what ever lies you try and come up with to "GET ME NEXT TIME" will hold up, and with the 2 lawyers(yes I said 2) I don't think anything you can say will stick( because they ARE lies)!! I have been a GOOD MOTHER and I have NOTHING to hide...can you say the same?????
-
Florida Treasure, the HelenPetermann username is a troll. It's a prank on the real Helen Petermann. Here are some links:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#18413 (http:// Ace is the Place
It's a prank, but not on you. So, what happened? How is your daughter?
With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
-
On 2006-04-15 00:30:00, Eudora wrote:
"Florida Treasure, the HelenPetermann username is a troll. It's a prank on the real Helen Petermann. Here are some links:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=0#18413 (http:// Ace is the Place
It's a prank, but not on you. So, what happened? How is your daughter?
With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
"
Its TRUE.
I never apologise,but I should now.
The HELEN PETERMANN prank is not directed at you,but consider this:
The things you replied to the "fake Helen Petermann" WERE your true feelings,and the REAL Helen Peterman has left a trail of victims that reaches to the moon and back,but has been able to hide away from being held accountable for it.
I hope the "fake Helen Peterman" has insulted you enough that if you ever meet the REAL Helen Petermann,you will be so angry that you pull all of her hair out!
Sorry.
-
Anon, you rock!
:nworthy: Great empires cannot subsist without great armies, and liberty
cannot subsist with them.
--Cato
-
Hi Anon, Oh I would!! :grin:
Thank you for letting me know...also I wanted to post this on this forum so no one thinks I have forgotten to get back and tell what all has happened....
Hi Everyone, I have not forgotten to write you all......There is so much I do want to tell......BUT it may take me a little while....Please understand I WANT TO TELL ALL and Will ....there are sanctions on my daughter and They (the camp)Do read this site! They had it pulled up when they called her(daughter) in to their office and questioned her about my posting. I am waiting on the court transcript, and for my lawyer to tell me when it is ok to Talk about Everything ....You all have been SOOOOOO supportive for me in private emails and by posting. So Please understand ..there is a Reason I am not writing right now....TRUST me I am Not all talk....I want something done!! And as far as the camp reading this site....This next part is for the camp, I am Glad that I have had the chance to entertain you all,(the camp)...But Make NO mistake about it I Will be talking as soon as I can.....so( camp) Keep watching!!!
I just did not realized this site was SOOOO popular
-
Id like to announce to them Ill be in florida sooner than later and Ill gladly be a big fat free, white, and 21 year old thorn in their side should they continue this bullshit.
:rofl: I guess they want us to feel sorry for them now?
-
What the fuck is going on here?
Is she still physically in there even AFTER the court order?
Because that's starting to sound like a reason to go kick some ASS.
-
I think Luke misread. They were questioning her earlier. Damn disturbing.
Hey programmie assholes, if you're reading this: You deserve to die for what you've done. I'm not kidding. It's only that it's not legal to kill you that you aren't dead.
-
look. Understand this before you go trotsing off thinking you can just talk a prosecutor or judge into letting your daughter out. I want you to bury your head in some books. Firstly I want you to go down to your local libray and in the law section have a librarian help you look up your state constitution. This is very important because juvenile law is NOT criminal law. Though many states are implementing "get tough" laws they still must abide by their constitution AND the U.S. Constitution. I want you to look up such landmark U.S. Supreme court cases as In re Winship and In re Gualt which were cases that implemented due process to juveniles. Thus, giving them rights such as right to an attourney. Constitutionally your daughter has the right to appeal, and the right to be provided an appeal attorney. You MUST get an attorney. Bottom line. No excuses. I am a law student and am currently studing juvenile law, i am not yet an attorney but trust me cases like this have been beatten before and this case is a lawers and a reporters dream. Try getting the press involved it is a sneaky tactic but it will force appeals court to review your case.
-
Another thing to remember a juvenile detention center is most ofter civilian owened and govermentally funded. They can do nothing! about this posting or anything else and if they do read this (i just want you all to know that your facility can be shut down) and will if they continue to Harass you and your daughter. remember the press is your friend. Write your local anchor man today.
-
Niles, are you moving to florida? I'm moving to Jacksonville.
-
Hhat I want to know is this:
Is florida treasure's daughter home yet or is there a need to force the issue?
-
FT's daughter IS home, :wave: from what I underdstand she is on house detention for now. FT is waiting until she gets information from her lawyer before she can post again.
-
On 2006-04-19 23:27:00, bandit1978 wrote:
"Niles, are you moving to florida? I'm moving to Jacksonville."
Prolly around Naples... and prolly around late summer/fall :grin: