Post by: ROFLatYEW9375 on August 01, 2001, 08:10:33 PM
Sorry, seems someone's been sitting in MY chair..... And There She Is! ;-)
Post by: Elle on August 01, 2001, 10:20:10 PM
Close, it's Alberta Adolescent Recovery Center. But they call themselves the "AARC Angels". *vomit*
Elle.
Post by: FaceKhan on August 02, 2001, 01:57:38 AM
How will we know if laws banning these programs won't work if we don't try? Laws are certainly not the only solution or the best solution, but it was stupid laws like the age of majority system and institutionalized childhood that got our society into this mess, so perhaps some well thought out legislation can get us out.
Educational intitiatives will certainly be needed as well, teens need to know their rights, and parents and teens need to be aware of the dangerous scams and cults claiming to be adolescent mental health services. We need to keep track of the bad programs and try to shut them down, and we need to work with the good programs to make sure they stay that way.
In regards to enforcing existing laws, we should try to get the penalties raised for institutional abuse, and the statute of limitations extended.
Slavish discipline makes a slavish temper... If severity carry'd to the
highest pitch does prevail, and works a cure upon the present unruly
distemper, it often brings in the room of it a worse and more dangerous
disease, by breaking the mind; and then, in the place of a disorderly young
fellow, you have a low spirited moap'd creature, who, however with his
unnatural sobriety he may please silly people, who commend tame unactive
children, because they make no noise, nor give them any trouble; yet at
last, will probably prove as uncomfortable a thing to his friends, as he
will be all his life an useless thing to himself and others... Beating them,
and all other sorts of slavish and corporal punishments, are not the
discipline fit to be used in the education of those we would have wise,
good, and ingenuous men...
John Locke, 1692
Post by: FaceKhan on August 01, 2001, 04:36:26 AM
A girl jumped off of a 35ft high balcony to her death soon after her arrival at the Teen Help concentration camp in Jamaica , calling itself Tranquility Bay.
Check the JamaicaObserver.com and search for "Tranquility" for two articles relatively even sided and a parent's support letter for the school. Rocky Mountain News also has an article on the death at
along with another about an abusive Samoa program which appears to be affiliated with Cartisano, the inventor of the wildnerness therapy scam and how parents of a depressed teen rescued her from there.
Slavish discipline makes a slavish temper... If severity carry'd to the
highest pitch does prevail, and works a cure upon the present unruly
distemper, it often brings in the room of it a worse and more dangerous
disease, by breaking the mind; and then, in the place of a disorderly young
fellow, you have a low spirited moap'd creature, who, however with his
unnatural sobriety he may please silly people, who commend tame unactive
children, because they make no noise, nor give them any trouble; yet at
last, will probably prove as uncomfortable a thing to his friends, as he
will be all his life an useless thing to himself and others... Beating them,
and all other sorts of slavish and corporal punishments, are not the
discipline fit to be used in the education of those we would have wise,
good, and ingenuous men...
John Locke, 1692
Post by: ramprato on August 01, 2001, 12:10:01 PM
Thank you for bringing this to our attention......Great job!!
Ken
Post by: BostonBrave on June 01, 2001, 12:16:52 PM
The snatching of this girl from her home repeats the way Straight got its clients. It is a horrible tale, rendered all the more horrible by the assertion of Mr.Kay that he was"certain" that her death was not a suicide,and that the girl was merely trying to manipulate her parents into getting them to withdraw her from the program. An intentional jump from a thirty-five foot balcony looks like suicide to me,but I don't possess the omniscience of Mr. Kay.
How on Earth were these people able to take this girl,presumably an American, out of the country against her will? How could the authorities in Jamaica allow such a progam to exist in their nation? We must get to the bottom of this story.
Post by: Antigen on August 01, 2001, 05:56:25 PM
Couldn't
It scares the SHIT out of me that this can happen... right in the headlines... in front of God and everyone and the beat goes on.
-If there's a worse idea going than locking kids up for victimless crimes, it's probably locking them in close proximity to some tyrannical altruist bent on helping them even if it kills them.
Saving our Children from Drug Treatment Abuse
Post by: sullyceltic on August 01, 2001, 07:51:10 PM
i'm curious as to how you hear about this, facekhan.
i work in a pretty news-heavy environment in my line
of work and heard nothing of it. i even brought it up
to some of my co-workers and they seemed unphased
by it. perhaps todays shooting rampage in california is
"better" news. (remind me to get another job NOT IN THE
NEWS BUSINESS) what a sick industry this is....
but thanks for posting that!!! i was horrified to see all of
these cookie-cutter websites for all of these places that
are "out of the US". showing kids playing basketball, and
sitting in rooms together, laughing. GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
these are all run by power-hungry maniacs who profit from the torture of teenagers who probably smoked pot two or three times.
i have a hard time believing in God these days, but i know that i will be praying for the soul of Valerie Ann Heron tonight.
Post by: Antigen on August 01, 2001, 09:29:52 PM
That came from the Rocky Mountain News out of Boulder, CO. If you load the url, you'll note that Columbine takes up a topic heading right under the weather in their permanent menu to the left.
Sometimes it seems like we're ALL in the program and almost noone has noticed.
-If there's a worse idea going than locking kids up for victimless crimes, it's probably locking them in close proximity to some tyrannical altruist bent on helping them even if it kills them.
Saving our Children from Drug Treatment Abuse
Post by: jetandra30 on August 01, 2001, 03:10:59 PM
That article was disturbing for a number of reasons. I can't believe the staff would be so cold to this tragic incident and still accuse the dead 17-year old girl as being "manipulative" and doing it "for attention" Valeriedied died pursuing one of the most worthy endeavors I know of: freedom.
Teen Help and Tranquillity Bay are criminal. I wish these stories would stir more public outrage. What was Valerie's crime?
Post by: FaceKhan on August 01, 2001, 03:52:54 PM
Well I generally check the various Treatment Abuse message boards for new posts, daily and this was on the We've been there board and on Intrepid Net Reporter.
Tranquility Bay and the rest of the Teen Help Archipelago (As in Gulag Archipelago) are probably the worst of the worst in treatment abuse today. Absolutely cult-like, lawyers hired by parents to keep their kids there, are often secretly retained by Teen Help as well. Apparently they do not seem to care that this represents a blatant conflict of interest and I know of one case where a lawyer, mother and Teen Help were sued by the Father of a boy who was sent with only his mother's consent and then a lawyer secretly retained by Teen Help, advised her to sue for custody to keep him there.
If it was a suicide, they drove her to it, if it was an escape attempt it was justified. I don't think anyone with even the last bit of reason left in them would presume that they would survive the fall though. I think it was a suicide, I think that girl got one look at that place and decided it was freedom or death. The State Dept rescued kids from a facility in Samoa, perhaps we can encourage them to do the same thing there.
3 things that will stop this once and for all:
1. Give minors the same rights as adults in resisting involuntary committment/placement
2. Integrate already ratified treaties on torture into our laws and ratify children's rights treaties.
3. Ammend Federal Law so that ANY American citizen abroad may request assistance in repatriation regardless of age, and State Dept. must provide such assistance. And that American Citizens must be able to freely contact the State dept to request repatriation assistance. Pass or Enforce existing laws that require that when children spend time abroad without their parents, relatives or legal guardians, that they notify the State Dept.
Slavish discipline makes a slavish temper... If severity carry'd to the
highest pitch does prevail, and works a cure upon the present unruly
distemper, it often brings in the room of it a worse and more dangerous
disease, by breaking the mind; and then, in the place of a disorderly young
fellow, you have a low spirited moap'd creature, who, however with his
unnatural sobriety he may please silly people, who commend tame unactive
children, because they make no noise, nor give them any trouble; yet at
last, will probably prove as uncomfortable a thing to his friends, as he
will be all his life an useless thing to himself and others... Beating them,
and all other sorts of slavish and corporal punishments, are not the
discipline fit to be used in the education of those we would have wise,
good, and ingenuous men...
John Locke, 1692
Post by: ramprato on August 01, 2001, 11:54:04 AM
Dear Mr. Kilzer,
My God, here we go again. I have to ask myself when reading your report the question of when will all the madness stop, yet it just continues and is going nowhere soon. Mr. Kilzer, did you ever wonder to yourself when preparing your story why all these compounds have to base themselves outside the U.S.?? I mean don't we have quite a bit of real estate available right here already without them having to build camps overseas?? Could it be that these places are trying to hide something like the way they treat these kids, could it be possible that cruel and unproven brainwashing methods might be placed on these kids to get them to "change" their behavior isolated from a family setting? Do you have any idea what being forced away from your family for years against your will does to somebody especially when you have not committed any crimes? I do, some 18 to 20 years later I still have nightmares from being in Straight Inc., because all those same things happened to me in there.
I was illegally held against my will all that time, I was brainwashed, tortured mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and physically right along side of other kids in there who were abused too. Thousands of kids went through Straight Inc. and Straight Inc. almost got away with it, and of course they would by obviously being endorsed at the time by the Bushes, The Reagan's, Princess Di, but time caught up with them, and they had to close down due to mounting lawsuits of abuse. Now keep in mind that back then some twenty years ago, all the Straight Inc. locations were on U.S. soil. When Straight Inc. closed down, the cities with Straight Inc. locations, re-opened under different names by the same people who operated them so they would be "protected" against the lawsuits. Somewhere in these 20 years, a certain group of people (studying these "therapeutic communities", saw a money making opportunity in this sick ($$but profitable$$) method of torturing kids. Learning from the "mistakes" of Straight Inc., they thought it would be a good idea to open up these places in places outside the U.S. therefore not subject to American law, hence, now you have Tranquility Bay...and an ever-expanding industry of offshore Mind Rape Mills
The death of that poor girl sad as it is, doesn't surprise me at all. It was just a matter of time before something like this again was going to happen. When people are put into a situation like that, anybody's natural instinct would be to get away from their tormenters. It burns me up that some of the quotes in your article blame Valerie for her natural, God-given fear instinct, quotes like, "She may have been thinking, 'Well maybe I'll injure myself, hurt myself, and that way I can manipulate and get home,' " or, "My gut feeling is she was either doing it for attention or to escape," hell, Straight Inc. used those same phrases on us all those years ago when somebody would try to escape, apparently, somebody at Tranquility Bay was taking notes on Straight Inc. on what to say if contacted by a reporter, how to lie and make it the kid's fault. Of course, her parents can't sue the perpetrators for using methods of harsh conditions that killed their daughter at Tranquility Bay like under American law can they?
You also write the following, "Valerie's parents are divorced. A lawyer representing her family declined to comment.", could I please have the name of that attorney, I would at least like him to have access to our websites, may this will help him out.
We have listed Tranquility Bay as one of the compounds, or Mind Rape Mills that abuses children for a while now.
"outfits using similar treatment modalities", and you will see Paradise Cove and Tranquility Bay listed right there....
Thank you again for writing that informative piece of journalism. Please visit our site and this this ever-growing story the light it deserves.
Thank you sincerely,
***
Post by: Antigen on August 01, 2001, 06:45:10 PM
Jason, I have to disagree with you. Read up on the history of these programs and regulation. All of these abuses were already illegal centuries ago.
Think about how the altruistic regulators responded to the recent suicide at Alldredge. Did they hold accountable the adult who handed this kid a rope and a knife in response to a suicide attempt? Hell no, that idiot is still walking around torturing kids. Instead, they turned the regulators on them; demanding that properly certified and licensed sadists be employed by the program.
"Laws are like spider webs. If some poor weak creature comes up against them - it is caught. But the bigger one can break through and get away."
-- Solon; Greek philosopher - c.630-c.555 BC
The only solution to this particular problem is for people to come out from under the ether and realize that, yes, it's true, horrific as it may seem, some people who like to abuse others dress up in the costume of altruism.
"If you can't trust a cop, it only shows you've been paying attention." -- Crazy Mac
-If there's a worse idea going than locking kids up for victimless crimes, it's probably locking them in close proximity to some tyrannical altruist bent on helping them even if it kills them.
Saving our Children from Drug Treatment Abuse
Post by: sullyceltic on August 01, 2001, 06:45:34 PM
i am still just really bothered by this story.
it hits here hard because i know that it could have
been any of us.
i can think back to the group that i was in and all
of the kids that were suicidal. there were lots of them.
several from the group over the nearly two years
i was there went on to kill themselves after getting
out of the grasps of the "re"-program.
i have been thinking a lot about valerie ann.
this story/situation is just wrong from every angle.
i hate it i hate it i hate it!
i appreciate facekhan posting that. i have since obtained
the phone number of the families attorney and the
number of that former police officer who was involved
in the "4 a.m. abduction". the news outlet that i work for
is no CNN, but i'm going to see if i can bring this to
the people that get their news from us.
Post by: Elle on August 01, 2001, 11:31:12 PM
My parents were able to kidnap me and take me over a boarder. Turns out it's quite easy! Seems to me unless you're Drew Barrymore or Brittney Spears, you are unimportant when under 21. Rights? What are those? Go to your room.
Elle.
Post by: FaceKhan on August 01, 2001, 03:49:02 PM
Well, at least if the laws changed so that teens could get out of these places, then those teens who are able to escape temporaily or contact someone, could get out. I remember the story of one person at Tranquility Bay who managed to contact someone while being abducted and the government sued to get him out of there, but his parent's lawyer (who was also a program parent) managed to keep him from being pulled out of the program to testify. I am not sure what happened to him? Kids are in the unfortunate position of having to live with the people who they tried to sue.
You should not be locked up without a fair trial and anyplace where you can't physically walk out the door and leave is a lock-up.
There will always be cults that abuse kids, by changing the law we can at least state loud and clear that these programs are not rehab, or therapy, or schools, or hospitals. They are cults and scams, they are dangerous and illegal. Sure there are laws against child cruelty, kidnapping, assualt, false imprisonment, fraud. The laws only need to be tweaked a little so that they are more clear in this area.
Slavish discipline makes a slavish temper... If severity carry'd to the
highest pitch does prevail, and works a cure upon the present unruly
distemper, it often brings in the room of it a worse and more dangerous
disease, by breaking the mind; and then, in the place of a disorderly young
fellow, you have a low spirited moap'd creature, who, however with his
unnatural sobriety he may please silly people, who commend tame unactive
children, because they make no noise, nor give them any trouble; yet at
last, will probably prove as uncomfortable a thing to his friends, as he
will be all his life an useless thing to himself and others... Beating them,
and all other sorts of slavish and corporal punishments, are not the
discipline fit to be used in the education of those we would have wise,
good, and ingenuous men...
John Locke, 1692
Post by: Elle on August 01, 2001, 04:32:40 AM
The thing is that I WAS illegally held. I was told that until I reached the age of 16 I couldnt' sign out and they had the right to keep me, but I learned later that it was bullshit. AARC's been doing that to kids for about a decade now, and it's an absolute complete lie, and the government knows because they're the ones that told me. One girl had a lawyer already, and he came to the center, found her and got her out. For the rest of us, most don't even know that they aren't legally aloud to be restrained and kept from leaving. The problem is finding a lawyer to represt us, when everyone is to scared to touch it.
Elle.
Post by: FaceKhan on August 01, 2001, 04:51:42 PM
What does AARC stand for?
Anyone know which state or federal laws say that you can leave. Please try to send me the text or the link. I was unaware there were laws that let people sign out of these programs even if they are under 18. If that is true, then it is a simple matter of getting better enforcment of these existing laws which can be a lot easier than getting new laws passed.
Slavish discipline makes a slavish temper... If severity carry'd to the
highest pitch does prevail, and works a cure upon the present unruly
distemper, it often brings in the room of it a worse and more dangerous
disease, by breaking the mind; and then, in the place of a disorderly young
fellow, you have a low spirited moap'd creature, who, however with his
unnatural sobriety he may please silly people, who commend tame unactive
children, because they make no noise, nor give them any trouble; yet at
last, will probably prove as uncomfortable a thing to his friends, as he
will be all his life an useless thing to himself and others... Beating them,
and all other sorts of slavish and corporal punishments, are not the
discipline fit to be used in the education of those we would have wise,
good, and ingenuous men...
John Locke, 1692
Post by: ROFLatYEW9375 on August 01, 2001, 06:39:11 PM
Alberta Addiction Recovery Center, I do believe. So Canadian law would apply.
In Florida at the time I was in Straight it was not legal for anyone to hold anyone over the age of 16 against their will without a court order. Of course, it's also illegal to use or threaten criminal charges in order to coerce someone into doing something. I think that's called blackmail. So every time one of these TOUGHLOVE idiots advises a parent to try and get their kid to hit them next time they have an argument so they can file criminal charges, it's a conspiracy to commit blackmail. It's done every day, right out in the open, though. And I'd bet dollars to donoughts you wouldn't be able to find a cop, DA or SA willing to persue those charges. Even when HRS got behind our efforts to stop the abuse at Straight, they lost the battle to the real authorities in Florida, the Republican Party. (not to be confused with Republican people)
The law is just not anywhere near as powerful or effective as people seem to believe it is. It's just words on paper and is open to the interpretation of whoever perceives themselves as the authorities.
The question most present in my mind is how in the world did we get into this mess in the first place? NIDA propagates most of the myths that make up a diagnosis of adolescent drug addiction. The DOE propagates most of the myths that make up a diagnosis like Oppositional Defiant Disorder (Drug me, teacher, cause I don't like you.)
People perceive their kids as standing in need of treatment or intervention because the presumed experts impose that belief through force of law. If a parent chooses to reject those notions, they find themselves at odds with the authorities who might very well declare them to be unfit parents by virtue of the fact that the disagree with the experts. Now, character and human nature being what they are, it's a whole lot easier for a parent to go along with the authorities and use all the leverage they can to get their kids to come along too than to stand against the authorities and likely lose the battle. So that's what most people do.
What you're proposing is that we bring in a different bunch of experts to impose a different set of beliefs through force of law. To my mind, government hasn't done a real impressive job of raising kids over the past 100+ years that we've been gradually giving them more and more authority to do so. Why should we expect them to any better job in future.
More importantly, even if we could get all of the agencies and the individuals who work for them 100% in-line with how you and I think things ought to be, how do you propose keeping them from being corrupted or copted by people who would regard such a state of affars as a total catastrophy?
I think a better solution is to promote critical thinking and debate on the wisdom of turning over the traditional role of family to force of law in the first place.
Please, Big Brother, don't threaten my kid with jail because you assume that the consensual activity that she's engaging in today might eventually lead to non-consensual, criminal behavior at some point in the future. You just leave it to me to raise kids who don't victimize anyone. If I fail, they'll have me to blame. Then who will I turn to when I'm old and senile?