Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on April 03, 2005, 01:51:00 PM
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Sat, March 19, 2005
Drunken state didn't cause fatal accident
Jail term possible for fleeing woman
By KEVIN MARTIN, CALGARY SUN
Birthday celebrations for a city woman turned tragic when she drove drunk and killed a pedestrian, a court heard yesterday. But lawyers for both the prosecution and defence agreed Amy Leigh O'Flynn's impairment did not play a role in the death of Calgarian Ricky Vienneau.
Date: Thu Jul 15 17:10:17 2004
Subject: FATALITY/INJURY HIT & RUN COLLISION 04/07/08
From: Duty Inspector
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CITYBEAT - CITY OF CALGARY PRESS RELEASE
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As a result of an investigation conducted by the Calgary
Police Service Traffic Section, criminal charges have been
laid against the driver of the Hit & Run vehicle.
Charged is:
Amy Leigh O'Flynn, 24 years, of Calgary.
She has been charged with the following criminal offenses:
1) Hit and Run Causing Death
2) Hit and Run Causing Bodily Injury
3) Dangerous Driving Causing Death
4) Dangerous Driving Causing Bodily Injury
5) Impaired Driving Causing Death
6) Impaired Driving Causing Bodily Injury
The accused along with 3 passengers, 1 female and 2 males,
was proceeding westbound on 17th Avenue South in the 1100
Block West, when the collision occurred; the vehicle struck
the deceased victim Ricky Veinneau (27 years)and seriously
injured Ian Potter (26 years), whom has subsequently been
released from hospital.
The accused fled the scene without stopping, abandoning the
vehicle nearby. A witness had located the vehicle at the
corner of 15th Street and 19th Avenue in the Southwest. The
accused and another male were arrested later that morning.
The accused is currently in custody and will appear in court
later today or tomorrow morning.
Duty Inspector Luch Berti for Inspector Brian Whitelaw of the
Traffic Section.
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Why would it matter whether or not her drinking was the reason for the accident? If she was driving and she was drunk then she was drunk driving and should be charged for driving impaired.
What a horrible memory to have to live with. I have a friend who was hit at 50mph as a pedestrian. Ever since she told me her story I'm for more aware of pedestrians and I'm constantly looking around the road.
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How can she not be held responsible for Ricky's death if she was admittedly driving under the influence?? Dosn't that automatically negate everything else?? How can the justice sytem allow people to get away with this type of homicide??
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Only to the mind of a zealot who thinks all use is abuse and that substance abuse is the root of all evil. To a level headed person, the only thing that matters in deciding whether or not to charge someone is whether their behavior was or was not related to the harm done. Sometimes, an accident is just an accident, even when it happens to someone who makes choices with which you disagree.
All religions have been made by men.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
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On 2005-04-18 23:16:00, Antigen wrote:
"Only to the mind of a zealot who thinks all use is abuse and that substance abuse is the root of all evil. To a level headed person, the only thing that matters in deciding whether or not to charge someone is whether their behavior was or was not related to the harm done. Sometimes, an accident is just an accident, even when it happens to someone who makes choices with which you disagree.
All religions have been made by men.
--Napoleon Bonaparte, French emperor
"
I'm unclear what you mean. Is killing someone while driving drunk just an "accident"?
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Yes, sometimes it is. But, reding the article, I see that they are charging the driver. So what's your beef? Won't be happy unless they call out a firing squad at dawn? What if, and I know this is going to sound crazy to you, but what if the cops, prosecutor and judge actually know what they're doing? What if drunk driving would be an inapropriate charge in this case? What if, even though this gal did have a drink or maybe two at some time before the accident, what if that was not the cause of the accident?
But if you allow yourself to consider that, then you might have bad thoughts about maybe your past drug use having not been the cause of all of the problems, minor and major, you your entire extended family. You might even slip into old druggie thoughts to the effect that AARC/Stepcraft are not the solution to all of life's worries and troubles. Questioning the dogma to any degree at all might, indeed, lead to screwing up and being kicked out of AARC's good standing category. Scary, huh!
No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the sources of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.
Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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Well I suppose Miller Newton breaking a kid's leg in group is an "accident" as well. Cops did a bang up job on that score. but oh well, accidents happen. I had no idea you were so understanding and forgiving! I sure hope she takes another look at her drinking.
As far as AA "stepcraft" not being the answer to all life's worries, you are correct! I need to take responsibility and when I screw up I admit it and try to fix it. I don't go on behaving the same way and expecting things to go better.
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I'm not pro aarc or any other program but I believe that if someone was drunk driving they should be charged with it, and it may not have been the reason for the accident but it surely doesn't help.
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She has been charged with the following criminal offenses:
1) Hit and Run Causing Death
2) Hit and Run Causing Bodily Injury
3) Dangerous Driving Causing Death
4) Dangerous Driving Causing Bodily Injury
5) Impaired Driving Causing Death
6) Impaired Driving Causing Bodily Injury
Again, what more do you want? Slow death by water torture? And what would be the difference between impaired driving causing death/injury and drunk driving anyway?
I think that all right-thinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I'm certainly not! But I'm sick and tired of being told that I am!
-- Monty Python
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There IS a difference between accidentally hitting someone, and accidentally hitting someone and leaving them to die while you try to escape charges.
If they feel that her drinking didn't have anything to do with the accident or leaving the scene, then that's fine, but she should still be charged with driving impaired because that's what she did.
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But.... they did charge her... twice each for hit and run, dangerous driving and impaired driving.
What's the matter, can't you take yes for an answer? If quitting drugs means joining the war on terrorism, does this portend the fire bombing of Amsterdamn ?
--Felton Manifestation
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Wasn't your argument that she shouldn't be charged for impaired?
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i am some one who knows amy very well. i guess i cannot be surprised at the controversy of this topic. all i can say is that i have never met anyone who is more sorry for her actions. and she is more than ready to face any consequences that she may have to. all ihave to say to the people who judge, is that do you really now the whole story? what if it were you in that situtation. its hard to even imagine what you would do. people do strange things when put in these kinds of stressful situations.
i aslo think you should all know that the last thing amy wants is to get away with what happened. she would give her own life to get back the life lost.
dont you think that maybe her parents helped her in this situation and got her a great lawyer so that she wouldnt spend the rest of her life in jail. would you not want the same thing if it was your child?
i think in situtations like this people forget that there are always more than one side to every story.
maybe they say that her drinking wasnt the cause of the accident becauce the two men hit were also drunk and ran accross the road in the pitch black.
the media never says anything about that do they? they just want to point the finger at someone.
which in this case is very understandable due to the severity of the situations.
all i can say on amy's behalf is that her life is in a much different direction now and she remebers and regrets the accident everday.
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Has she looked at her drinking and is she sober?
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Is Amy associated with AARC?
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yes amy is associated with aarc. she signed herself on the day after the accident
and yes she is clean and sober and doing quite well actually
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Amy Is doing very well and just finished school. She has had her struggles as has a lot of the people from AARC but proves to knows that drinking or drugs is not the anwser any more. Every day Amy wakes up she knows what has happened and has to live with that. It was stated that the boys J-WALKING while drunk and at 3:00am was just one reason why the drinking was not the cause. The drinking impared her judgment at this point and that is what is being questioned.
What amy did was wrong and she knows that I think people shoudl look at there part in the situations that happen in their lives and they will see that they make bad judgement some times to.
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I am really pleased at her approach. She obviously knows she had a serious part to play in this tragedy. Everyone can have a bad day. I hope she does well. Staying sober will certainly help.
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I was a friend of rick's...I live in his hometown. All I have to say is, drinking and driving is what it is. You make the decision to drive knowing that it does in fact impair your judgement. Driving while impaired, was her bad judgement, no exceptions. Leaving the scene of a serious accident, is just plain stupid. Maybe Rick had a chance. Did she think about that? Did she think that he could be taking his last breath and earlier medical attention could have saved him? Instead, she thought of herself and fled like a coward. On behalf of Rick's family, Mother, Father, Sister and his son, whom he'll never see grow up, I just want to say..sure, everyone has a bad day, and everyone makes bad judgement sometimes, but you have to own up to the consequences of these actions. How could you just let someone die in the middle of the street? His family is torn apart, theyre absolutely devastated that they lost their son. And Rick had so much to live for. RIP Ricky
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The bottom line in this story is that the cab driver who SHOULD have driven Amy Leigh O'Flynn home in the early morning hours of July 8th, 2004 would not have hit and killed my little boy's father. Those of us who drive know how often pedestrians step out onto the road when they shouldn't, and let's face it, all of us who have ever walked anywhere know that "jay-walking" is the norm, NOT the exception. It was her responsibility to ensure that she was lucid and alert enough to react to the conditions drivers encounter everyday - pedestrians, night driving and rain. Had she been sober, then this could have been termed an accident (although had she been sober this likely would not have happened). This woman made a decision, and this decision was no accident. All red tape and BS put aside, Amy Leigh O'Flynn is guilty of numerous crimes here, both legally and morally, and in all honesty, neither the excuses, nor the pity-parties, and no amount of hiding behind "a substance abuse problem" can change the fact that Ricky is dead and she is responsible. It is an atrocious miscarriage of justice that she has not been found criminally culpable for Ricky's death. To refer to this situation as "a bad day" for the driver is as absurd and cold, as it is heartbreaking. Perhaps I feel this strongly because I saw his devastated family at his wake and funeral, and felt the emptiness that swallowed all of us who loved Rick. And if my opinion is tainted with anger, then it comes from the memories of those days, which began a year ago tomorrow, and from listening to my son ask about his father, who he will never see again. Ricky and his family deserved justice, and it was not delivered. The excuses need to stop.
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So what should her punishment be?? Seriously please don't just say how horrible she is, say what exactly she needs to do or what exactly needs to be done to her to give you some justice. I am all ears.
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I really don't know how to make myself more clear than I did. I did not, in my previous posting, and will not now, offer my personal opinion of this girl in this forum, as it does not change a thing. If your impression of my comment was that I was "saying how horrible she was" then I suggest you reread it. What I am maintaining is that her drunken state WAS the ultimate cause of Ricky's death. I am not interested in the technicalities that brought those lawyers to the conclusion that her condition was not a factor. We all know that drinking and driving slows a driver's reaction time etc etc. I doubt that I need to explain these facts to you. For some reason she got away with what is blatantly obvious to anyone who cares to take a look at this situation from an unbiased point of view. She is certainly not the first person to escape due punishment a court of law, as I am sure you know. If I had not cared so deeply for Rick, even if I had been a complete stranger to him, I would have the same opinion as I do now. As for her punishment, she should have been found guilty of the charges that they dropped, and she should have been sentenced accordingly. That's what I think. Plain and simple. But saying this doesn't change a thing, which is why I don't understand your response to my posting, or your questions. My comments were not intended to be a personal attack against this woman, I feel that they were truthful and factual. Frankly though, I am very unconcerned if I have offended you, because right now, on this particular day, and on every other July 8th for the rest of my life, all I feel is sadness. From everything I have heard about this case, which I have heard from people who talked to the lawyers, Amy did nothing from the second Ricky and Ian were hit except try to hide what she did and make excuses about why this happened. I realize that nothing can be changed now, as the charges have been dropped. I have neither the time, nor the inclination to explain what I feel is the obvious truth. Not today. The people, including my child, who were destroyed by this crime are not faceless to me, and the injustice that has been served here is as real as the heaviness in my heart when I remember Ricky's beautiful smile. As for Amy O'Flynn... she's a statistic.
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OK well I certainly see your side of it. I don't even want to say anything to upset you. But it just sounds from the posts here that she went through a treatment program and feels bad about what happened. And what could be better than that? I would rather have someone emotionally repent something like that than to have the government lock them up and have them think they did nothing wrong.
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I mean what could be better than that, besides of course if it didn't happen.... :cry:
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Whether or not she has "emotionally repented" for her crime is of little consequence to me. That is between her and God. Why do you act like it should be enough for her to simply state that she feels bad about what she has done? People feel sorry when they hit animals on the road too, this does not absolve her, it simply makes her human. Her getting away with this was a hard slap in the face to those who were waiting for justice for Ricky. People who are hurt by someone else's criminal actions need tangible justice for healing, not tears, and CERTAINLY NOT excuses. First it was a lie about a stolen vehicle, then when that didn't work it was bad friends, a so-called alcohol problem, a dark road, "J-walking"... COME ON. Even the victims were blamed for this. Amy O'Flynn apparently didn't value the safety and lives of innocent pedestrians as much as she valued the $20 it would have cost her to take a cab home. In fact, she was with 3 other people, so it would have cost less than that. It was the responsibility of the courts to try this woman and ensure that swift justice was delivered for this CRIME. Drinking and driving IS AGAINST THE LAW. She broke the law, and she should have been punished for that. She left a human being bleeding on the pavement. A person with dreams, a futur, a mother, father and sister who loved him, friends who loved him, and a little boy who is STILL waiting for him. If Ricky and Ian had been J-walking, so what? They were not the ones irresponsibly operating a motor vehicle, a weapon when used under the influence of alcohol!Is there something about that that you don't understand?? She was impaired, PERIOD. Perhaps had she been sober, she may still have hit him, but she may not have been going as fast, and perhaps he wouldn't have died. I could go on and on and on about the possibilities here, but they would all start with "IF she hadn't been DRUNK...". Had she been a man, without a family with money or influence, she would have gone to jail. I, since you seem to be curious, would rather see her locked up for what she did. Call me a facist if you will, I am unapologetic about my stance. The alligator tears shed while she attempted to excuse her behaviour and extort the simple truth here mean nothing to me. I'm sure that it is obvious here that my position is unwavering. To directly address your questions - a jail term befitting the coldness and selfishness of this hit and run would be better in my eyes, and I'm quite sure that my words echo the feelings of his family and friends, and Ian, who was a direct victim here too, and Derek, who had to witness his friends life leave his body that night on the pavement. There are no excuses. My prayers are with these people.
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I cannot believe the justice system today. You can be drunk, hit a pole, hit a moose, or even get pulled over by the police, and you get thrown in jail. Atleast where I come from anyway. But hit a human? Leave them to die? And get away with it? What kind of precedent are they setting? That it's OK to do these things as long as you say how bad you feel and become a spokesperson for some stupid substance control program? this doesnt make any sense to me. I don't know what those lawyers were thinking. I bet they werent thinking if it was THEIR child, THEIR friend, THEIR brother. His family deserves justice. They did not ask for a visit from the police announcing that their only son is dead. Killed by a drunk driver. The courts should have been all over this, charging her to the fullest extent of the law, making sure it never happens again. Now what are people going to think when they get behind the wheel drunk? That its OK to hit someone, and flee the scene so your alcohol level is lower if/when you get caught. (which is exactly what she was thinking) (cold and selfish)
Then say how 'bad' you feel about everything...and blah blah, get a slap on the wrist and walk. Amy, I guess you played your cards right, in your eyes anyway. You manipulated this situation like a true pro. How many more people will you kill in your lifetime? To say the least, I am a true believer of Karma, and someday that will find you Amy, ready or not.
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On 2005-07-08 15:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"OK well I certainly see your side of it. I don't even want to say anything to upset you. But it just sounds from the posts here that she went through a treatment program and feels bad about what happened. And what could be better than that? I would rather have someone emotionally repent something like that than to have the government lock them up and have them think they did nothing wrong. "
You honestly believe that salvation through stepcraft can sanctify wreckless homocide? "Oh, I'm so sorry, it wasn't me, the beer did it!"
The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.
--H.L. Mencken
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Well no...I mean the stepcraft part is unfortunate. It sounds like maybe she just ended up there because she felt bad and that's where she went. I'm just saying that, given the situation, which isn't much to begin with, what's the best way to deal with it? I would think having the person spend the rest of her life trying to make up for it would be the most anyone could ask. Putting her in jail won't make her feel bad, or try to change. You can't force people to be good. That's all I'm saying.
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Really, I totally understand where you're coming from though...I don't even know why I posted here.
Sorry...
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i just cant get over how many of you who dont know the whole story keep passing judment. have you all now become lawyers and judges? the poing of going to jail is to rehabilitate a person. maybe the judge realized that amy had taken the right steps in that process. maybe the judge was smart enough to realize that amy is of more use to the community with her story. her story will certainly make more people think about drinking and driving and when she goes to the schools to speak to kids, SHE is the one who WILL get them to listen. i know this may sound harsh but people can learn from being on the other side of a tragedy as well. maybe ricky had to die before the people would really understand the seriousness of drinking and driving. i know many many people who are friends of amy's, who will NEVER drink and drive again. and carry her message to thier friends and this message will carry and holds up very strongly. who better to carry this message than someone who has actually killed a person while under the influence.
and just for the record it wasnt amy's rich or influential parents that "got her off the charges".
amy worked her ass off to get her self out of the mess that was created. and she is facing serious consequences even though not in jail.
and a question about his son, if he was such a big part of his son's life, why did they live on opposite sides of the country from each other?? i hear the son just came into the picture when the mother realized she could get some insurance money
from the accident.
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If Amy's impaired driving wasn't the cause of Ricky's death or Ian's injury, then what the hell is she doing going around talking to kids about the "dangers of drinking and driving" for?? I think the people who will really "get them to listen" are the people who have actually paid a debt to society for a crime of this magnitude, not someone who has done nothing but make excuses for her crime. Putting her in jail for what she did would have been a far more powerful message to kids (and the community) than Amy O'Flynn on her "crusade" against drinking and driving, with all her empty words. Sorry, but you don't need to be a lawyer or a judge to see that she got away with murder. You can't get over what has been written in this forum recently? What do you find hard to get over?? That there were people hurt by this crime?? And for someone who is so quick to insist that other people do not know the whole story, you sure are quick to comment on things that you have no idea about. Does the fact that Ricky lived far away from his son mean that he has not lost here??? He still has to grow up without his father, now because he is dead as opposed to just living far away. Do you really believe that this will not affect him for the rest of his life?? His son did not just "come into the picture" recently, he's been there all along. You are commenting on a situation you really know nothing about, I guess in an effort to personally attack me, or punish me for what I have said. But the difference is that what I said was based on truth and facts(that Amy was drinking and driving and because of that Ricky is dead) not on rumors. For your information, the "insurance money" that you are talking about is money for Jacob to go to school, to be put in trust for him. And you know what? He deserves it. It's not his fault that his father is dead, and it's not his fault that his father lived far away from him either. What does that even have to do with any of this? You're a fine one to talk about people not knowing the whole story... Judge me if you want to, I didn't kill anyone. If my opinion on the matter has pissed you off, obviously a friend of Amy's, then I'm glad. I hope you tell her what I have said here, and what the other people who knew Rick have posted too. All the pettiness put aside, I will reiterate what I came to this forum to say - Ricky's family deserved justice that they did not receive. And if Amy and her friends needed someone to die in order to stop drinking and driving... well... I think that comment speaks for itself. Too bad the casualty in Amy's new "war on drinking and driving" wasn't one of the people in that car that night, one of the people who left the victims on the road, one injured and one dying. I wonder if you would sing a different tune if it was someone you cared about...
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i would just like to say simply that the accident was not entirely amy's fault. ricky and his friend were ALSO impared at the time and ran across a very well known busy street in the pitch black and in the rain. if it wasnt amy that hit them, it owuld have been the next car. the accident was going to happen whether or not amy was drunk. that is why the charges went they way they did and why amy did not go to jail. amy knows she did the wrong thing and that is why she is going to talk to kids about this. her words are far from empty. and she does take responsibility for her part in the accident. maybe you people should look at both sides of the story.
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Either Amy is really stupid, or really ignorant. Drinking and Driving is a crime. Leaving the scene of an accident is a crime. Will she tell kids that they should try to leave the scene, and ditch the car? and lie and say that it was stolen? Sorry, but her story was purposely orchestrated for her to walk outta it with no consequences. She never felt remorse, and still doesnt. Jailtime would have fit this situation...her 'words', probably would have more effect on people if they were spoken behind bars. Busy street?? Then arent there street lights? Im sure calgary has those...as for ricky and his friends being drunk, I would just like to clarify that drinking and walking....isnt a crime folks. Everyone knows drinking delays motor skills, grow the fuck up people. Keep your eyes on the road, not the bottle.
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OK, I can't resist....ever hear of Public Intoxication? Ever hear of Jay Walking? Crimes. Both of them.
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At least in the US. And the reason is probably similar...to keep people from getting hurt. People who get drunk and run across busy streets in the middle of the night are liable to get hurt. Add to that a drunk driver and you have yourself a big problem. But to say one party is more guilty than the other, and to say that she planned the whole thing? Ok let me get this straight...she planned out how she was gonna, rather than go to jail, spend the rest of her life teaching others about the dangers of drinking. THIS was her big plan?? Wow, maybe I should look into that as a career. It sounds like a load of fun. Of course-- who wants to go to jail. Any person with half a brain would try to stay out of prison. That doesn't make her evil.
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Ok, many different outlooks. Everything else put aside, she shouldnt have been drinking and driving, ricky shouldnt have run across a busy street...but who knows the real story? Maybe she hit them while they were on a sidewalk...maybe she was speeding...maybe, being intoxicated and all, forgot to put on her headlights..? couldnt these factors influence her decision to flee? Maybe jail inst in her future, but how could she live with the fact that she could have helped him? Maybe Rick would be still alive today if he would have had earlier medical attention. She really didnt give a shit about a dying person on the street. Nothing, no lawyers can change that fact.
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Did she do anything? Call the police anonymously? Let someone know somehow? I don't know all the details but just don't think she sounds all that lucky. Lucky would be if she just thought she didn't do anything wrong and lived the rest of her life with no regrets. Now that would piss me off. Maybe the government realized her remorse and her dedication to helping others, and decided that was better. Here's an interesting thought that I just had: Maybe she will actually save someone's life from giving back to the community by sharing her story and teaching people that they could make the same tragic mistake, and have to live with the guilt. Maybe leaving her out of jail is the more humane way to go. Just a thought.
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I would just like to repeat something that was said in an earlier reply, had Amy been a man, with no family and no money...I don't think I would have to tell you what would have happened. If she hadnt have been drunk, or even if she would have just stopped the car and helped, perhaps she would have deserved to not go to jail. Then maybe, this could have been classified as an accident. How many people have died from drunk drivers, how many families have gone without justice? Does the government really need to refresh that number by adding another example or 'scenerio'? The least the better right? Here's a scenerio, a young guy has some drinks at a bar and decides to use his feet to get home...leaving his car keys in his pocket...
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I think you are in your own prison, right now.
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This topic is clearly very heated and personal. I understand that in every day circumstances the friends and family of everyone involved in this accident don't usually talk and this forum may have provided a positive place for them to express themselves. I'd like to point out however that the internet is 1 way communication and words are often misinterpreted or not enough. Perhaps because people from both sides have gathered here, they could find a way to gather in "real life" as well.
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On 2005-07-26 16:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"OK, I can't resist....ever hear of Public Intoxication? Ever hear of Jay Walking? Crimes. Both of them."
"public intoxication"??? In case you didn't know, that's when someone is causing a disturbance while drunk in public. Sorry but walking home from a bar is not a crime... driving home drunk, however, is.
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oh my god thats a realy sad story!
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On 2005-11-29 12:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-07-26 16:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"OK, I can't resist....ever hear of Public Intoxication? Ever hear of Jay Walking? Crimes. Both of them."
"public intoxication"??? In case you didn't know, that's when someone is causing a disturbance while drunk in public. Sorry but walking home from a bar is not a crime... driving home drunk, however, is."
"public intoxication is not a "crime". Nor is Jay-walking. Neither is to be found in the Criminal Code of Canada. However, "intoxication" may be a DEFENCE in certain offences.
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On 2005-07-15 10:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i would just like to say simply that the accident was not entirely amy's fault. ricky and his friend were ALSO impared at the time and ran across a very well known busy street in the pitch black and in the rain. if it wasnt amy that hit them, it owuld have been the next car. the accident was going to happen whether or not amy was drunk. that is why the charges went they way they did and why amy did not go to jail. amy knows she did the wrong thing and that is why she is going to talk to kids about this. her words are far from empty. and she does take responsibility for her part in the accident. maybe you people should look at both sides of the story."
Wow. thats gotta be the fucking stupidest thing ive read on this forum. Did you look into your crystal ball and see that the next car would have hit them if she hadnt??? How in the hell can you say that with any certainty? You must know something that everyone else doesnt. Too bad the rest of us arent fortune tellers like you, otherwise we might have the privilege of justifying this crime as inevitable like you have. Keep the fucking make believe to yourself, this was a real person who was killed and obviously there are people who loved him coming on this forum, so have some fucking respect and show some kindness and compassion unlike your loser aarc friend who should be in jail. They should have thrown the fucking book at her.
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I am someone who knew amy better than anyone at the time and as a person with the information I have, I can say with complete clarity and unbiasedness, they should've put her in jail. She was doing coke and drinking and smoking. To use a person crossing the street is a shameful and disgusting scapegoat. She ran away like a fucking coward. She let him die in the street like a goddamn alleycat. I'm sorry if that's harsh, and we all make mistakes, but she gets escape her punishment, travel, learn, love, LIVE. With out ANY recourse.
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If I had been put in jail for all the shitty, hurtful, vicious, senseless things that I did, I would never get out. judging Amy, or anyone else is not my job, and I sure wouldn't want it. Having some compassion for all those involved in this tragedy is what I will try and do, and be reminded that anyone, me included, can fall hard.
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have you ever killed anyone? left them in the street to die? if so, you should be in jail. here i am judging you like i do amy... no discrimination here. ya, ive done some fucked up shit in my day too, and your comment, probably aimed at having all of us 'self-righteous judgers' take a good hard look in the mirror and see that we make mistakes too, so we have no right to judge amy... blah blah blah is BULLSHIT. maybe youre lucky enough to take such a diplomatic stance because you have never had someone you loved plucked from your midst by a fucking asshole drunk driver. i have so i know how his family feels. your 'let he who has not sinned throw the first stone' position is likely one taken in ignorance. i bet your 'live and let live' attitude would crumble around you if you knew what it felt like, and if you believe that you wouldnt be judging the person who did this to someone you loved, then maybe youre the one who should take a good hard look in the mirror because you are deceiving yourself. your comment isnt insightful, it is, rather written with a complete lack of insight
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Actually I have lost several people due to anothers actions. Right now I feel bad for you because you are in pain. The only way I got through that kind of pain was working for years to forgive and try to prevent someone else going through it. We are so quick to judge, but I need to think what if the driver was my child, or brother, or parent or spouse. It can easily happen to any of us. It is not right,or fair.
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http://gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/story/5509 (http://gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/story/5509)
I bet this man will go to jail.
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i don't agree with your statement that it can easily happen to any one of us. many people do not drink and drive, and i would like to believe that most of us wouldn't leave a human being dying in the street and flee the scene of a serious accident. and a question... the several people that you supposedly lost at the hand of someone else... were the perpetrators punished for what they did? you might think you sound enlightened, but i think your full of shit.
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On 2005-12-12 07:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
" the several people that you supposedly lost at the hand of someone else... were the perpetrators punished for what they did? you might think you sound enlightened, but i think your full of shit. "
Punished? Not exactly. One friend's death sparked a series of revenge killings that included innocent people. The guy who killed my friend walked on a self defense argument. In the last ten years five people I know of have died and several more have been injured seriously, and all their friends and family live in fear. That is were hate, bitterness and rage have gotten us. I was just as self-righteous and enraged as you are, and it got me no place. Infact it could have gotten me killed and my family harmed. Enlightened? Hardly. Just surviving the best way I know how.
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sounds like you and/or your friends were or are involved in gang activity or something. statistically speaking, you know a whole lot of people who have died violently and apparently a lot more people living in fear of revenge etc etc. you live by the sword you die by the sword i guess. my dead loved one was just minding her own business driving home from shopping, when some drunk asshole on the highway killed her and the child she had with her. enraged? yup. im guilty. its not like i live my life crippled or consumed by my anger, but i can taste it again when i hear about drunk drivers and all their fucking excuses.
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On 2005-12-07 20:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am someone who knew amy better than anyone at the time and as a person with the information I have, I can say with complete clarity and unbiasedness, they should've put her in jail. She was doing coke and drinking and smoking. To use a person crossing the street is a shameful and disgusting scapegoat. She ran away like a fucking coward. She let him die in the street like a goddamn alleycat. I'm sorry if that's harsh, and we all make mistakes, but she gets escape her punishment, travel, learn, love, LIVE. With out ANY recourse."
I also knew Amy around the time of the accident and this is absolute fact. And the person who said that she is now clean and sober is simply lying. Amy may be off hard drugs now but she still drinks heavily. Even before her sentencing when she was dating a friend of mine, she wanted him to drive them home rather than calling a cab, even though they were both drunk. Sure, she may regret the accident. But actions speak louder than words. And if taking someone's life doesn't make a person change what's wrong in her life, that speaks volumes of that person.
I look at Amy's lifestyle back then, and her lifestyle today. Not much has changed. Has she learned her lesson? Not from what I see.
Amy, if you read this, you should get on your knees and thank God that you have the life you do. And with that, look at yourself. Do you like what you see? You've been given the second chance that Ricky never got. And you are wasting it. That kind of disrespect is beyond words.
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i am pretty sure that amy does get on her knees everyday and thank god for the life that she has.
she knows that she should have gone to jail. i am a student that heard amy's story when i went to the party program at the foot hills hosptital. when i heard at first that she had killed someone while drinking and driving, i thought she was a killer and should have gone to jail. after she was done sharing with my class i realized that she is now saving lives by telling hoer story to kids. because of her, i know that me and no one in my class will ever even think of drving drunk. i think all of you should leave the past in the past. she is making a difference today. life really sucks sometimes and people die everyday. thats life. all of you here wasting your time bad mouthing her should get a life. have you ever met her?? or seen the grief and shame she feels over the accident? she is doing the best she can with what has happend. the only way to true freedom from this is forgiveness from all sides of the story.
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you know what??? you people amaze me! why dont you all just get a life of your own. you all sit here and judge like you really know what is going on. amy's life is nothing like what it used to be. not even close. she is sober and saving lives today by sharing her story today. she is grateful everyday for the outcome of this tradgedy. how would you feel if your life was put under the microscope??? especially by people who have no idea what they are talking about. back off!!!
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I found out about Ricky's passing over the past summer as I had lost contact with him, I went to Saint Mary's with Rick back in 1995 and am very sad to hear about his passing. Ricky was the most genuine and most caring person you could ever meet and to die the way he did makes me shake. By reading this forum, it is very appparent that Amy O'Flynn has gotten off of all serious charges which basically throws the justice system out window. Driving drunk and killing somebody is inexcusable, but driving drunk and fleeing the scence like a goddamn coward is unforgivable and inhumane. This girl basically got off with a slap on the wrist, and there was no justice served here if what people on this forum say is factual. I cannot imagine Ricky's family not getting the justice they deserve. Can anyone tell me if this case has been appealed and what charges if any were laid? Thanks. RIP Ricky, you are dearly missed.
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On 2005-12-19 19:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i am pretty sure that amy does get on her knees everyday and thank god for the life that she has.
she knows that she should have gone to jail. i am a student that heard amy's story when i went to the party program at the foot hills hosptital. when i heard at first that she had killed someone while drinking and driving, i thought she was a killer and should have gone to jail. after she was done sharing with my class i realized that she is now saving lives by telling hoer story to kids. because of her, i know that me and no one in my class will ever even think of drving drunk. i think all of you should leave the past in the past. she is making a difference today. life really sucks sometimes and people die everyday. thats life. all of you here wasting your time bad mouthing her should get a life. have you ever met her?? or seen the grief and shame she feels over the accident? she is doing the best she can with what has happend. the only way to true freedom from this is forgiveness from all sides of the story."
ok that sounds pretty bogus to me. i actually laughed when i read that. your a student who was helped by amy? and here you are just stumbling onto this forum (by coincidence im sure)? pe-lease!
you want to talk about forgiveness? did she ever apologize to the people who really matter in this tragedy? what about his family? and according to you, if someone writes in this forum they have no life? guess you should get one too. you are right though, people do die everyday... unfortunately it was the innocent person who died that day.
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THIS seriously makes me soooooo mad that she got away with murder.......I am from his hometown and I also know his sweet little boy!!!!!! It is sooo awful that she is getting up everyday and having that chance...and she took the life of an innocent person cause she selfishly got behind the wheel...cause of alcohol! SIck.....it is just sick...whoever made the decision for her not to have jailtime...I do not understand the reason behind it?? WHY??????????? Even ANY TIME in prison would be justice...like give her at least 5-10 years...SHE TOOK THE LIFE of a human!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A human being......and his family has to live with the sadness...the loss is unimaginable and May Allah (GOD) (subhanahu Wa T'Allah) reward them for their patience and make it easy on them. Ameen!...and his poor little boy.....who was given his father's starwars toy by his and the sweet little guy hold it sooooo carefully and with such pride cause it was his daddy's...and he holds it like a fragile piece of glass and whispers "careful it is soo special"........how heartbreaking!!!!!! It made me cry when I herared that! It just makes me wish this could be appealed!!!!!! And you know what I am gonna pray everyday that it happens......but what goes around comes around....NO MATTER what?? Going around talking to others about drinking and driving...HOW SICK! I don't care WHO it helps...it doesn't help who matters in this case......I can honestly say! I have never driven drunk...or impaired....or even after 1 sip of alcohol...(I no longer drink anything with alcohol!) it is sick...and to think she STILL drinks according to her friends on here......and I didn't keep from drinking and driving cause some "Girl that killed an innocent man" came to talk to me at school...so go on thinking you are doing something for society...is that what your parents tell you??????? They tell you maybe it had to happen to save the rest of the world from ever doing it again...I am sure if you were a male you would be in jail.......I wish you were in jail.......how can u live with yourself...even people who know you say you are still the same.......how CAN U live with yourself...............HOW????? Just HOWWWWWWW!?? DO you really wanna live with yourself?? She should be in jail...not enjoying life free...the family deserves wayyy more justice! It is a slap int he face...this was their son...if it was someone who killed YOU by drving drunk on his birthday cause he is a male...hmmmm I bet it would be a totally different story...but Maybe Allah (GOD)(subhana wa T'Allah) InshaAllah has something worse in store for you as you are obviously a kaffir (unbeliever) and it is sick! :???:
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On 2006-01-22 23:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
It just makes me wish this could be appealed!!!!!! And you know what I am gonna pray everyday that it happens......but what goes around comes around....NO MATTER what??
Well, my understanding is that the court of jurisdiction tried the case, found what they found and instituted what they thought was the best and most apropriate sanctions. But you're right, what goes around does tend to come back around. Maybe you'll get your wish when you stand accused and, instead of relying on evidence, they'll just do to you whatever the most emotionally distraught wittness against you wants done.
When we are pleading with foreign governments to stop the flow of cocaine, it is the height of hypocrisy for the US to export tobacco. Years from now, our nation will look back on this application of free trade policy and find it scandalous.
1989 testimony before the US Trade Representative,September 1989
--Surgeon General, Everett Koop
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On 2006-01-23 10:59:00, Eudora (fka ~ Antigen) wrote:
"
On 2006-01-22 23:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
It just makes me wish this could be appealed!!!!!! And you know what I am gonna pray everyday that it happens......but what goes around comes around....NO MATTER what??
Well, my understanding is that the court of jurisdiction tried the case, found what they found and instituted what they thought was the best and most apropriate sanctions. But you're right, what goes around does tend to come back around. Maybe you'll get your wish when you stand accused and, instead of relying on evidence, they'll just do to you whatever the most emotionally distraught wittness against you wants done.
When we are pleading with foreign governments to stop the flow of cocaine, it is the height of hypocrisy for the US to export tobacco. Years from now, our nation will look back on this application of free trade policy and find it scandalous.
1989 testimony before the US Trade Representative,September 1989
--Surgeon General, Everett Koop
"
whatever. i dont think thats exactly what he/she was saying. your not so subtle sarcasm (what you probably have mistaken for intelligence) is misplaced and insensitive. its very naive to assume that just because she was not held accountable for this death in the courtroom that there must have been 'evidence' supporting the courts decision. things like that happen, but it certainly doesnt mean that she is not guilty. she was drinking and driving. how about this: maybe when your friend or family member is killed by a drunk driver and they arent charged for the crime, youll understand what it feels like to be emotionally charged and distraught. so lets see what part of my comment you are going to ridicule...
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she was drinking and driving. how about this: maybe when your friend or family member is killed by a drunk driver and they arent charged for the crime, youll understand what it feels like to be emotionally charged and distraught. so lets see what part of my comment you are going to ridicule...
Well put!!!!! I have to totally agree with this statement. SHE WAS DRINKING and DRIVING and kiiiiiiiiiiiiiiilllllllllllllllled a person!!!!!!!! HOW DENSE can u be to not understand that! DRINKING + DRIVING = MURDERER !! How can THAT not be understood...MURDERER! How can u/she live with herself?????? Can she really?? Maybe time will cover her crime...BUT what is underneath will never go away...and I hope it haunts her forever and I am sure it will. So no matter what all got her away with nothing...she was the one...driving drunk...KNEW she did something horrible...LEFT the scene of a MURDER...pretended (LIAR) that her car was STOLEN.....that shows what an awful person who doesn't deserve to be free that she is.... SICKENING........so What part of THAT do you not understand...who cares what any evidence was...SHE KILLED A PERSON DRIVING DRUNK...that is against the LAW! TO save 20bucks.....sickening...I just can't stress how much it is soo unfair and SICK...just give the family and people who care about what happened...some justice...go to the police...confess and say I want you to do your time...what you ACTUALLY deserve!!!!! WHILE that sweet little boy never has the chance to ever be held by his father...and his family never has another chance to hold their son! Turn yourself in to prison..cause what u r doing with this "lectures" is actually making yourself look soooooo BAD! YOU will always be associated with MURDERING a HUMAN BEING...always..this will follow you til death...try having your children or SON for that matter find out that their mother was a murderer of someone else's DADDY...and they were too young to have the chance...wait until your son turns 27 and then look at him and think of him being ripped from your arms.........JUST do yourself and everyone justice.......who cares about what life YOU have to live...JUST give them justice....after you get out..you can live your life...BUT for now...you should be taken care of in PRISON!.......
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Also.................
After doing your time and what you deserve...at least it can maybe be let go a little...but you GOT away with MURDER......you deserve prison!
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drinking and driving blah blah blah...drunk or sober...hitting a human is one thing, fleeing the accident and lie and say your car was stolen? ur going to hell amy, whether u like it or not. i wish she could look into his sons eyes...this is real people. take a look, what if this was your son, or brother, or father?
http://www.elhatton.com/English/obit_de ... it_id=7834 (http://www.elhatton.com/English/obit_details.asp?obit_id=7834)
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Still thinking about you everyday Rick. We love you.
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I know Amy and she does not have any remorse for her actions. She is still a drunk and addict who until she sobers up will not understand what it's like to love, care or take responsibility. It was stated that she shouldn't be judged, well why does she puts herself in situations where she is prone to being judged? It's going to take more than a dry out center to clean her up!
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first of all I dont beleve those people who posted about how upset they are about Ricky really know Ricky, unless Ricky also went to the AARC. Is that so?
amy was a detainee before she got into the accident?
Otherwise, why would his freinds be posting on this very very very website about abusive programs?
Can you imagine what is being done to Amy in AARC over this constantly told how terrible she is for killing this guy, like not at a normal level , but as a constant mental torture? (unless she gets on Vause's good side)
there is gonna be nothing left of this girl
also was she a detainee before she got into the accident or after?
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Ricky did not go through AARC and these people ar ehis friends. I think all of its tragic. I know Amy will have her judgment day whether its here or somewhere else.
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I really don't understand the comment about not knowing Rick because he didn't go through AARC ... What does that have to do with anything?? Anyway thanks to all those who show their support and offer sympathy ... and to those who talk just to hear themselves .... please don't.
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I really don't understand the comment about not knowing Rick because he didn't go through AARC ... What does that have to do with anything?? Anyway thanks to all those who show their support and offer sympathy ... and to those who talk just to hear themselves .... please don't.
i bring this up becasue this is a "survior of aarc forum" and I dont understand why "freinds" of rick wuold post here and doubt that they are really "freinds". Its weird that all these suposed freinds come here to post. This is a pretty obscure and specified forum. Doing so is like going to the "lets stop the fulun gong chinese torture camp" survivor forum and posting about how someone who ended up there was really bad and that they should get worse. You are missing the point of the forum.
This topic is better suited for a miscarrage of justice forum or something- if thats how ya feel
A further reason I doubt that many of the posters here are ricks "freinds" is that AARC cultists are complete and total nutjobs. They routinely lie cheat, torture and certainly are not above posing as "freinds" of RIcks to specifically torment Amy, to prostelysize that as she was drinking all tragedys automatically spring from there- even if they are found legally not to, to paint her as as a crazy evil addict who they are now going to save", and simply because they lie as general principle. This seems especaially true when they bring names up like "miller Newton" as people outside this weird world of gulug cults are not gonna know that name.
However, if you really are interested in seeing AMy really really suffer, rest assured she is in the right place. Want her to be a husk of human being when she gets out? never be quite right? walk around in a haze of shame and confusion for the next 10 years of life? Freind, your gonna do better with a couple years at the AARC then 5 in state pen. Shes totally gonna suffer for the rest of her life for what has been ruled by the state as an accident. Congratulations!
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Look, when this particular discussion about Rick's death started, AARC wasn't even really being brought up as a discussion point ... I didn't even realize that this forum was for AARC survivors until you posted it. All I know is that when I serached for an article about Rick's death 2 years ago I was brought to this site where I found some people defending Amy and blaming Rick. AARC site or not, I'm not about to ignore that just because I was never affected by AARC and its seemingly messed up approach to counselling.
Listen, if the discussions about Rick started on this site is it really so hard to believe that his family and friends who miss him and love him are going to want to weigh in on them?
Our intentions were never to insult or intrude on your forum, only to defend someone that we love and I still don't see why you get the right to belittle our comments by implying that we don't know him ... you have to think of the big picture not just the fact that it's an AARC forum. I
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OK, I can't resist....ever hear of Public Intoxication? Ever hear of Jay Walking? Crimes. Both of them.
You certainly are an idiot.......it's apples and oranges. J-Walking and hit and run, drinking and driving. Think about it smart guy. You can't even begin to think of what something like this does to your life untill it happens to you. IDP
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Many curious aspects to this story. Having spent a good deal of my youth as a passenger in vehicles blazing down country roads with folks drinking at the wheel, I don't look on driving while drinking as a hallmark of evil. It isn't too bright, and can result in tragedy, but the act itself is no more inherently evil than speeding or talking on a cell phone, or writing sheet music, all acts I have observed drivers performing. This event was a tragedy for all concerned, from driver to victims. With the exception of Vause. How did this person with no credentials whatsoever take custody of O'Flynn, a 24-year old adult, as part of her sentence? The unmitigated gall of the Executive Director of AARC, who had already "graduated" O'Flynn from his programming, assuming responsibility for rehabilitating her, is disgraceful. This very sad event served as just another boost to his view of himself as above the law, and above the rest of society. And now he owns her ass.
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Its laughable to say that this was as much a tragedy for the driver as it was for the deceased. Amy chose to drink and drive, you chose to be a passenger with those who had been drinking and driving, Rick did not choose to get run over while crossing the street!!
I do agree that it's not evil, it's not like she got into her car that night with the intent to mow someone down on her way home, and I'm sure that if she could change it she would. But she did consciously choose to drink and drive and, a little closer to the evil side, she chose to leave him in the street to die ... she's still living, where's the tragedy there??
I know, I know, Vause is her tragic ending. But the courts didn't actually sentence her to be under his custody. Unless I am gravely mistaken she was sentenced to live at her parents house with the exception of school,work,church. But I guess it dosn't matter how she got there, she's apparently there. And yes it is tragic that this man allegedy chooses to abuse and brainwash these poor people but again she has a choice dosn't she?? Choose to be straonger than him, at least she has a chance ... Rick dosn't.
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Did not say that it was as much a tragedy, so your post doesn't have a point. My personal opinion is that the entire case was strange. Colin Jones was just convicted for running overand killing a young woman in Calgary, then fleeing. O'Flynn did the same thing, albeit the victim of O'Flynn was jay-walking, whereas Jones' victim was in a crosswalk. Both drivers were impaired, both left their victims to die to avoid the consequences. Jones is off to jail for two plus years, O'Flynn was turned over to Vause. My point was that Vause was given control of a person who should have been dealt with, for better or worse, in the same fashion as others who committed the same crime. I was not defending O'Flynn in any way. I am very sorry for your loss, as you were obviously close to O'Flynn's victim.
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well the way i understand it, amy wasn't turned over to vause by the courts at all. she checked herself into this apparently fucked up rehab facility immediately after her crime had been committed... probably as part of her "poor me with my drinking/drug problem, it wasnt my fault that someone died because im an asshole" defense. dean vause and aarc were a punishment she inflicted on herself to incite pity and create an illusion of insight, remorse and repentance. and ive been told that she wasnt there very long. her actions speak loud and clear as to the type of person she is... she hit them, she took off, she lied to the police saying her car was stolen, and then when she couldnt hide what shed done anymore, she played the system by going to "rehab". and people fucking j-walk all the time, infact, many people walk in the almighty cross walk out of turn as well. a few white lines drawn on the road make no difference. the point is the fucking DRIVER should be able to see straight while behind the wheel.
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Again, not sure where you're going with this. This is a forum related to AARC. As to the white lines on the street, that's where you cross. Vehicles are expected to stop at these points to allow pedestrians to cross. Nobody argued that leaving the scene wasn't a shitty thing to do. A judge determined that the driver's impaired state didn't cause the death. What that has to do with AARC, I'm still not clear on.
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Well, it seems to me that she was charged with impaired causing death but wasn't that withdrawn with a plea bargain? If so, it wasn't the judge who decided. This raises a number of possibilities:
1. Smart defense lawyer who was able to capitalize on AARC's reputation for having an 85% success rate with addicts like Any.
2. Prosecutor who knew had been persuaded by the evidence of witnesses that Amy had no chance of avoiding the accident even if sober.
3. A combination of the above two.
Whatever, it seems to me the prosecutor made the judgment call and withdrew the crucial charge. Perhaps that is what should be questioned. You will never get any answers on that score, especially not in Alberta. Unless there's a whistle-blower, that is.
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Anyone have any updates on the killer??? Anything happened to her? Killed herself? Gone crazy in a mental institute? Overdosed? Jail!??
Take Care
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unfortunately she didnt kill herself
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unfortunately she didnt kill herself
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Is Amy O'Flynn incarcerated for a lengthy period as she ought to be. Ricky's family will get justice one day if not as karma is such a real thing. Any update on the murderer?
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I know this is a dead horse but the reason she didn't see him (I was told by someone in the car) is because she was leaning down to do a line of coke. Alcohol is not the only reason she was so fucked up that night.
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I heard that she was speeding because she had kidnapped the Lindbergh baby.
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I have known Ricky and his family since I was 6. We were in the same class,Sunday school class,School bus, and University. I was at Ricky's wake and I had a good long talk with his Mom. She was very forgiving towards Amy. Her strength was inspiring. These are really good people that have no vengeance in their hearts.
In my opinion, Amy should have gotten at least 10 years without the possibility of ever getting a driver's licence again. It's sucks that Ricky was such a good kid/man and he was struck by such a manipulative, evil retch like Amy. She and Ricky are polar oposites. Ricky may have mistakenly crossed the street and maybe
Amy was drunk. The cause of the accident isn't important. What the bitch did after the fact is what makes her a piece of trash.
Amy, I hope you have a long miserable life. Love you Ricky!