General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 14, 2006, 02:12:00 PM

Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: Anonymous on February 14, 2006, 02:12:00 PM
An editorial on Mormons from a
> Santa Clarita, CA newspaper
> Editor:
> I have heard and seen enough! I have lived in the West all my life.
> I have worked around them. They have worked for me and I for them.
> When I was young, I dated their daughters. When I  got married they
> came to my wedding.  Now that I have daughters of my own, some of
> their boys have dated my daughters. I would be privileged if one of
> them were to be my son-in-law.
> I'm talking about the Mormons. They are some of the most honest,
> hard-working people I have ever known. They are spiritual, probably
> more than most other so-called
> religious people I have encountered. They study the Bible and teach
> from it as much as any Christian church ever has. They serve their
> religion without pay in every conceivable capacity. Not one of their
> leaders, teachers, counselors, Bishops or music directors receive
> one dime for the hours of labor they put in. The Mormons have a non-
> paid ministry- a  fact not generally known.
> I have heard many times from the pulpits of others how evil and
> non-Christian they are and that they will not go to heaven. I
> decided recently to attend one of their services near my home to see
> for myself.  What a surprise! What I heard and saw was just the
> opposite from what the religious ministers of the day were telling
> me. I found a very simple service with no fanfare. I found a people
> with a great sense of humor and a well-balanced spiritual side.
> There was no loud music. Just a simple service, with the members
> themselves giving the several short-sermons. They urge their youth
> to be morally clean and  live a good life. They teach the gospel of
> Christ, as they  understand it.
> The name of their church is "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-
> day Saints." Does that sound like a  non-Christian church to you? I
> asked them many questions about what they teach and why. I got
> answers that in most cases were from the New Testament.  Their ideas
> and doctrines did not seem too far fetched for my understanding.
> When I read their "Book of Mormon" I was also very surprised to find
> just the opposite from what I had been told I would find. Then I
> went to another church's pastor to ask him some of the same
> questions about doctrine.
> To my  surprise, when he found out that I was in some way
> investigating the Mormons, he became hostile. He referred to them as
> a non-Christian cult. I received what sounded to me  like evil
> propaganda against those people. He stated bluntly that they were
> not Christian and that they did not fit into  the Christian mold. He
> also told me that they don't really  believe the Bible. He gave me a
> pile of anti-Mormon literature.  He began to rant that the Mormons
> were not telling me the truth about what they stand for. He didn't
> want to hear anything  good about them.
> At first I was surprised and then again, I wasn't. I began to
> wonder. I have never known of a cult that supports the Boy Scouts of
> America. According to the Boy Scouts, over a third  of all the Boy
> Scout troops in the United States are Mormon.  What cult do you know
> of that has a welfare system second to none in this country? They
> have farms, canneries and cattle ranches to help take care of the
> unfortunate ones who might be down and out and in need of a little
> help. The Mormon Church has donated millions to welfare causes
> around the world without a word of credit. They have donated
> thousands to help re-build Baptist churches that were burned a few
> years ago. They have donated tons of medical supplies to countries
> ravaged by earthquakes. You never see them on TV begging for money.
> What cult do you know of that instills in its members to obey the
> law, pay their taxes, serve in the military if asked and be a good
> Christian by living high moral standards?
> Did you know that hundreds of thousands Mormon youth get up before
> high school starts in the morning to attend a religious training
> class? They have basketball and softball leagues and supervised
> youth dances every month. They are recruited by the
> FBI, the State Department and every police department in the
> country, because they are trustworthy. They are taught not to  drink
> nor take drugs. They are in the Secret Service - those who protect
> the President. They serve in high leadership positions from both
> parties in Congress and in the U.S. Senate, and have been governors
> of several states other than Utah. They serve with distinction and
> honor. If you have Mormons living near, you will probably find them
> to be your best friends and neighbors. They are Christians who try
> to live what they preach. They are not perfect and they are the
> first to admit this. I have known some of them who could not live
> their religion, just like many of us.
> The rhetoric which is spread around against them is nothing more
> than evil  propaganda founded in untruths. (Others) had successfully
> demonized them to the point that the general public has no idea what
> they actually believe and teach. If you really want to know the
> truth, go see for yourself. You, also, will be surprised. When I
> first moved here some 25 years ago there were five Mormon wards in
> Santa Clarita. Now there are 15.
> They must be doing something right.
> Paul Allen Santa Clarita, California
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: Anonymous on February 14, 2006, 02:19:00 PM
Santa Clarita, hmmm.  Isn't that where all the vampires are?  :eek:  :lol:
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: Anonymous on February 15, 2006, 09:01:00 AM
Sounds like any other account of how people get convinced into joining cults.

"Oh- those people seem SO nice and wonderful, I want to be just like them."

Fucking idiots, adults falling for this shit get what they deserve -- but that's not enough, and they drag their kids through this shit with them -- and that is where the problem is. The kids grow up in a cult, and don't get to choose for themselves.

Yes, Mormonism is a cult. Anyone who has associated with those people know it is. (
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: try another castle on February 15, 2006, 03:43:00 PM
On 2006-02-14 11:19:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Santa Clarita, hmmm.  Isn't that where all the vampires are?  :eek:  :lol: "

Nope. That's Santa Cruz.

And it actually *was* the murder capital of the country for a while. Mainly because there was a serial killer residing there. (And no, it wasn't Edward Herrmann.)

And as someone who is a friend of an ex-mormon, he says that the culture is the absolute worst and most repressive environment, period. And that doesn't even count the polygamists. (Who are actually ostracized from the mormon church.)

"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."
-Trevor Goodchild
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-02-15 12:47 ]
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: bandit1978 on February 16, 2006, 11:01:00 PM
While I have (generally) found Mormons to be nice people, there is something which makes me question there ethics:

I was at Provo Canyon School in the 90's.  The Mormons came every Sunday and held services.  Mostly none of the girls there were Mormon, but we were encouraged (by PCS staff) to attend services (never mind the fact that my parents had been assured that PCS had NO religious affiliation).

Anyway, many girls ended up going to their services.  The Mormons would also come in on other days to meet with girls (individually).  

What I found most disturbing was the number of girls who actually CONVERTED and got BAPTIZED while at PCS.  Jewish girls, Catholic girls...

These girls' parents had no idea this was going on!  These parents entrusted their children to PCS, and PCS allowed these minor children to be converted and baptized and did not even notify nor obtain permission from their parents!   All this while insisting that PCS has no religious affiliations!
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: Anonymous on February 23, 2006, 02:57:00 PM
I'm Mormon.

Everyone is so quick to point fingers about something or another. When was the last time the Mormon church came out and attacked anyone or anything. You won't see it. Why you may ask? Because a church run by Jesus Christ himself through his Prophet and 12 Apostles does not need to. It speaks for itself.

Get off the whole cult thing, its old. I'm a free thinker who has read the bible more times than most preachers. Interesting that preachers are all out to get filthy lucre for their teaching. Last time I checked the church Christ established when he was on the earth was the opposite. They all worked for their own support, and they preached the gospel for FREE! Interesting that on every level its the same today. Coincidence?

If no one in the church recieves a penny and spends it all on building up others and giving it to those in need; what is it doing wrong. Be careful about bearing false witness against what you know so little about.
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: Anonymous on February 24, 2006, 07:01:00 AM
Hello there : )  To the person who posted right before me...

I wanted to comment on what I believe was your response to (RN) Megan Flynn's posting in regards to her experience of the Provo Canyon School.

I think it's commendable of you to want to defend the Mormons...that you really believe in the church and what it stands for.

I also believe that it is important to not lose sight of other people's feelings too and their viewpoints -on the same token.

I too once belonged to a religion I really believed in and defended-to the point where I stopped listening to other's concerns about the church. I became ignorant and unwittingly arrogant in regards to my beliefs at the time.

What I'm trying to say, is that -as humans we do want to protect our most cherish beliefs-but we mustn't lose sight that we should always seek out what really Is and try to cultivate an understanding/empathy as to why other people may feel a certain way and just maybe there is that possiblity that their feelings do contain some validity.  

You know-trying not to disregard other people's experiences and not allowing our own vision to be short-sighted so as to only want to see/believe what we want to see/believe.

The church I belonged to had been bashed too and I would often see people protesting-I would consider them "evil-not even wanting to engage in conversation with those people or even listen to them".

One day, however, I decided to hear their side of the story and I did my own research, rather than brand them as liars and wrongdoers-according to my own understanding.

 I found that there were some very sincere people who were hurt, wronged and disillusioned  and their feelings were valid -and that I shouldn't cast them as just being bad hearted, troublemakers and liars bearing false witness...  

-And I found that the church and it's members who I put so highly on the pedestal and whom I thought to be "perfect"...

Well I realized they really weren't -as sincere and insincere some were

...and those churches and their members all seem to claim to be the only way and God's only church -like everyone else.

 I've studied and attended many churches despite how bad they were talked about- I also came to know people who were hurt or disillusioned by their faiths and their churches....
You just never know so you have to check it out for yourself rather than just blindly accept things as being factual.

No one's perfect I know, but when we start holding the church and their facillitators as  infallible thats when many times, many innocent people start getting hurt.

No one wants to question the church or the ministers because they're considered to be God's chosen ones, His representatives... and infallible ...(not everyone saying Lord, Lord will enter God's kingdom)KJV Bible.

....and in the meantime-some of the church members or those who are seekers, become victims of hurtful things that no one wants to believe them about-(because they may find it impossible to find this in "God's house") only for the victim's spirit to be crushed...and their relationship with God -damaged-because they were not believed or taken seriously.  

When I was involved in the bible  ministry I came across many people who were completely turned off from God and religion because of this.

 Anyhow-if you object to what Ms/Mrs Flynn had to say about her experience...I was wondering if you do me a huge favor?!...

Was wondering if you could provide a more direct response/rebuttal as to why you believe what she says is false -If you could comment specifically on the statements she made-if you feel them to be false and why...Please? It would very much be appreciated!

Do some INVESTIGATION on your own on what she's claiming.  Ask yourself-"Were you present when she was there"-can you accurately say she is bearing false witness?  

The statement that was made that That the Mormon church never attacks others beliefs... is not very relevant-it's really skirting the issues presented by this woman...With all due respect.

Again-Can you instead specifically address some of the concerns she brought up-because obviously they are real to her : )

In doing so and not just assuming she's bearing false witness and that the church members can't do wrong at all(...WE ALL SIN and FALL SHORT-KJV Bible)

-Could it be that by doing this- this will give you an opportunity to bear ACCURATE witness as to what really happened and what is really true and what isn't...rather than only saying that "You never see the Mormons attacking others beliefs" or however it was worded(refer to last post given)

Again, if you can please address her issues before branding her as one bearing false witness.... and not viewing her or others with "concerns" as haters...  I

Sometimes cultivating empathy for what the other person's experience is- may cause one to experience enlightenment or a complete shift in perception-

Sorry because lengthy and if this may sound all preachy-like and redundit....

-I'm new at this and within time maybe-I'll become more refined in how I express myself :smile:

Yours Truly,

Amy Braddock
Los Angeles, California
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: Anonymous on February 24, 2006, 07:36:00 AM
Hello-it's me again. I read over my message again and wanted to say that I hope what I typed wasn't offensive to the person who is a Mormon who posted before me.  *For him:If so-please forgive me. Is what not meant to come off rude.

And The post was not totally directed on you-but others who may write in.  I just really would love to have some feedback from you (as well as from others) on some of the comments or accusations made...

Thank you kindly... :smile:

Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: Jeff_Berryman on February 24, 2006, 11:12:00 AM
"When was the last time the Mormons attacked anyone or anything?"

Well, after moving to Utah they used to rain wagon trains disguised as indians.

Every religion goes through a whacko phase in its early days where they burn heretics had have schisms and so on.  Mormonism was no exception.  Utah was a very nasty dictatorship for a time.  I wouldn't classify it as a cult, because it's too well established for that.  (Time and number is the ONLY difference between a religion and a cult.)

My department chairman at FSU was a Mormon Bishop and Stake President, and he was one of the finest human beings I ever knew.  Then again, I sat through many hours of depositions with WWASP's owner, its CEO, and its lawyers, so I've seen the other side of the coin.  I suspect they're much nicer people in places where they are a minority.

In the final analysis, all religion consists of three things:  Santa Clause, the Boogey Man, and The Emperor's New Clothes (Google the story if you don't know it.  It would take too long to explain)

In order to gain power and control, they promise great rewards (If you're not good Santa Clause won't bring you anything for Christmas.)  They threaten dire consequences (If you don't go to sleep the Boogey Man is going to come and get you,)  And in time, peer pressure from those around you causes you to conform to the party line whether you believe it or not.  (Only one little boy had the nerve to say "The Emperor is naked!")  

Well, everyone outgrows Santa Clause and the Boogey Man sooner or later, and I think the human race will outgrow religion as we know it before much more time passes.  Good riddance.
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: Anonymous on February 24, 2006, 04:25:00 PM
When they took over our country buttwipe. You can't tell me it's a rightious group of people. They're not saints. That's why, and I want them to go to hell where those hypocrites belong. Why dont'cha go worship the "Black Pope" like the rest of all those assholes at the vatican.
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: bandit1978 on February 24, 2006, 09:50:00 PM
I am not faulting the actual missionaries who visited Provo Canyon School (well, not for the most part).

I AM faulting Provo Canyon School, for misrepresenting themselves (my parents expressely wanted to send me to a facility of no religious teachings or persuasion, which PCS assured them of).  

I am also faulting PCS for permitting their under-age charges to convert and get baptized, without any sort of parental notification.  I mean, this was a place where you could not even go from one room to another without asking a staff member for permission.  

This is how many of the girls started out attending Mormon services-  during the day, the girls who were being punished were made to stand for 25 minutes at a time, staring straight ahead.  

I believe this is called a "stress position".  

Well, these girls were told that if they agreed to attend the Mormon service, they would not only be excused from that hour or two of standing, they would also receive "credit" for that time, same as if they had actually "worked it off" in the stress position.

Plus, the Mormon missionaries were actually kind and loving, (just the opposite of PCS staff), so OF COURSE the girls were going to choose to attend services!  

Just another way that PCS manipulates parents and children.
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: vosney on March 09, 2006, 12:20:00 AM
i went there in 88 -89,  that school sucked bigtime...they said i could have a home visit if i graduated, isaid yes, so they sent a therapist home with me, his name was larry... iran away as soon as i got home and never went back. i did about 2 yrs. there. 2 wks. of which was in the rubber room. one of my best friends was  i did many i.p.s there. sometimes not going outside for weeks.
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: CCM girl 1989 on March 09, 2006, 10:44:00 AM
Years ago we were managers in the same company and I was visiting his Central Utah Area. We were having a nice lunch when his cell phone rang. He spent the next ten minutes reaming out a ward leader in his stake. When he finally hung up he looked at me and (presuming that I was a fellow TBM) said:

"This guy's not church broken yet" (nodding to his phone)

"Church broken?" I asked.

He then asked if knew much about horses, which I didn't. He explained how a mustang in the wild has a mind of its own and lives by its in-born instincts and will. He explained how you can break the horse's will and teach it who is in charge. Repetition, giving and withholding affection, punishment, restraint, and isolation from other untamed horses - all were necessary.

You can teach a horse to do unnatural things like putting up with the sound of a gun, or going near a fire, he said. It's just a matter of breaking their will and teaching them that they don't have a right to their own feelings and natural instincts.

"It's a matter of showing the horse who will ALWAYS be in charge." He finally said. And he stressed ALWAYS.

Church members were no different than horses to this man. Then I realized that he was no different that most other ranking leaders in the church, the others just don't put things so bluntly. -- Or so accurately.

The great issue is who finally takes charge of the member's will - and keeps if forever. Do you obey them? Or do you obey yourself? Ultimately there can only be ONE master of your will. So, do you break or not?

I managed not to go to church the next Sunday. And I haven't gone back since.

Is there anyone here who has studied the human will and knows how it gets taken? It's a frightening subject. How many different tactics does the church use? How can you get your will back? This SP acted like you lose it forever!

I found this on that ex-mormon site. I thought it was interesting.
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: Anonymous on March 09, 2006, 12:04:00 PM
The Lord God Himself has to break your will. Only He can do this if you love HIM.
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: Mochiko on March 09, 2006, 03:14:00 PM
0_o should breaking someone's will even be considered in choosing/being a part of a religion? Shouldn't it be a matter of personal choice and free will?
I have nothing against mormons, but I disagree with any religion that forces you to do anything you don't want to do or accept something you don't agree with.
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: Roy on March 09, 2006, 03:20:00 PM
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: BuzzKill on March 09, 2006, 03:31:00 PM
///The Lord God Himself has to break your will. Only He can do this if you love HIM.///

I disagree with this. I'd say God loves you - and when you realize this, you *surender* your will to His - b/c you love Him.

This is safe to do, b/c He Loves you and knows you, and so, if you walk in His will for you, you will have the best possible peace and satifaction with your life.

But its not at all a matter of God breaking your will. He will not do that. What you give to God must be volentary - weather it is offering to the poor, or your force of will.

Horses. I wish more people understood, they are  much better mounts when they are doing what you ask b/c they trust you - not b/c they fear you.
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: Roy on March 09, 2006, 03:42:00 PM
Mormonism is a tyrannical cult. They believe they will become Gods. They believe their underwear protects them from illness and injury. They subugate women. The don't allow followere to read or think freely. I have worked for Mormons past and present --- Help me!!!!!!

In the three contaxts I experienced working with them they bugged my phones, listened in on private conversations, demanded absolute obedience to their world view and were and are generally dogmatic, dictatorial and unforgiving.

They have the highest rate of marital infidelity and sex addiction in the the nation. They lie, decieve and cheat with reckless abandon, then they turn around and shame or shun you for saying "damn" or "hell."

I am currently working for a mormon company. My phone is bugged with a tape recorder on the line. I am not allowed to make business contacts outside the office. I have to tell them and let them do it. My bosses sneak around and listen to employee conversations. I have to pretend I believe in their conservative treatment philosophy and instead of providing counseling make people conform to mormon social norms, conform to society, and insist they be good sheep and follow future Gods in lockstep. They are ignorant of their profession and have no idea what they are doing. If you dare prove they are wrong about anything, redirect or correct them in any way you end up in a inquisition like human resourse meeting. Then they turn aroung and ask why dont you talk to them. Yet taking to them about anything is guarenteed to elicit punishment.

You can have your mormons, and as far as I'm concerned jam them up your tight ass.
Title: Not everyone hates Mormons....
Post by: bandit1978 on November 14, 2011, 06:56:27 PM
These stories explain a lot about the attitudes of the staff at Provo Canyon School.  

Roy-  what kind of work to do you?