Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: Anonymous on December 19, 2005, 07:22:00 AM
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Looking for people who where grateful for the
time they spent at Spring Creek Lodge?
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like those people would post here? those people wouldn't even know about this place! the only people that know about this forum are people that are looking for the negative. And that too is okay. if I were a parent wanting to look into a school, I would want to find a place that posts the negative so I could weigh it with the positive posts from the referals and other sights. But just like you don't get negatives at strugglingteens, you won't get positives here....at least not for long because they get tired of being hammered and told how wrong their experiences are.
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They are not here because only a handful exist. They are typically RECENT graduates who are still under the spell. Find me someone who's been out over 5 years who says SCL was a good choice.
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i graduate from spring creek lodge 6 years ago and i am extremely grateful to the program for giving me my life back, and teaching me the tools that have enabled to me to be the sucessful person i am today
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On 2005-12-19 04:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Looking for people who where grateful for the
time they spent at Spring Creek Lodge?"
None here. Try back later.
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On 2005-12-19 07:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i graduate from spring creek lodge 6 years ago and i am extremely grateful to the program for giving me my life back, and teaching me the tools that have enabled to me to be the sucessful person i am today"
How convenient, anon, just after someone challenged this. Your lies are so aparent, it's laughable!
Since you were there six years ago, the same time as me, we should have experienced some similar events. What family were you in on lower levels and what dates were you there?
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not to mention that troll leaves out puntuation like this to avoid being caught as they same troll who spends everyday here lol
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On 2005-12-19 07:45:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i graduate from spring creek lodge 6 years ago and i am extremely grateful to the program for giving me my life back, and teaching me the tools that have enabled to me to be the sucessful person i am today"
How do I know you don't work there? I hear so many
bad things about this place. Someone very close to me is there now. It scares me. Is it as bad as all these people say. I don't expect him to love being there but I don't want to see him worse off when he gets home. It is so confusing and hard for real loving parents to know what to do and who to believe. Not all parents send there kids there to just get rid of them!! I believe his parents harts are in the right place. All I hear here is how parents don't care and just want to have someone else deal with there kids. I know for a fact this isn't true for the person I am talking about. I would be nice to hear something good. If you look at how many kids go through this school to how many complain. It would appear the school is helping more then not.
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On 2005-12-19 09:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
I would be nice to hear something good. If you look at how many kids go through this school to how many complain. It would appear the school is helping more then not."
where do you get that impression from? It appears to me there is a lot more bad reviews than good - unless you go to SCL personal website, which is all propaganda.
I think you should do a little more searching for the real truth - it's not hard to find. SO many horrible stories - it truly is unbelievable these places still exist.
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His parents were DUPED with shiny brochures, lies, and promises that will never be fulfilled, as are many parents unfamiliar with the program. YES, he will come back worse off - or he will come back a brainwashed programmie, and be worse off a few months down the line when he realizes what he went through.
If you are looking at fornits for statistics, you won't find them. It took me a couple years to find fornits, and that was after doing a lot of intensive searching online. Most kids want to forget about what happened, and move on with their life.
If you want to talk to MORE students/graduates who went there check out these myspace groups:
WWASP [anti]
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... A320996159 (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100087123&Mytoken=91F77F2D-11FC-9433-A11D600F335D7BA320996159)
[260 members]
ANTI WWASP
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... A320996159 (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100285438&Mytoken=91F77F2D-11FC-9433-A11D600F335D7BA320996159)
[308 members]
End Institutionalized Child Abuse
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... A320996159 (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=101131503&Mytoken=91F77F2D-11FC-9433-A11D600F335D7BA320996159)
[686 members]
And these are just a few. The info at these groups is very accurate, because those who post are fully accountable to the other students who went their also. This will confirm your deepest suspicions of this being a negative program.
Just because there are posts here saying WWASP is good doesn't mean it is true. WWASP employees, and others with a financial of emotional (still brainwashed and feeling guilty) motives for coming here and spreading program propoganda. Mostly, the program people come here to bash us. I suppose they find it fun, and reminds them of what its like at the program.
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It would appear the school is helping more then not.
This is because WWASP spends TONS of money on propoganda and suing those who want to spread the truth about this gulag.
See how it worked on you??
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On 2005-12-19 09:34:00, Anonymous wrote:
"His parents were DUPED with shiny brochures, lies, and promises that will never be fulfilled, as are many parents unfamiliar with the program. YES, he will come back worse off - or he will come back a brainwashed programmie, and be worse off a few months down the line when he realizes what he went through.
If you are looking at fornits for statistics, you won't find them. It took me a couple years to find fornits, and that was after doing a lot of intensive searching online. Most kids want to forget about what happened, and move on with their life.
If you want to talk to MORE students/graduates who went there check out these myspace groups:
WWASP [anti]
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... A320996159 (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100087123&Mytoken=91F77F2D-11FC-9433-A11D600F335D7BA320996159)
[260 members]
ANTI WWASP
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... A320996159 (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=100285438&Mytoken=91F77F2D-11FC-9433-A11D600F335D7BA320996159)
[308 members]
End Institutionalized Child Abuse
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fus ... A320996159 (http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=101131503&Mytoken=91F77F2D-11FC-9433-A11D600F335D7BA320996159)
[686 members]
And these are just a few. The info at these groups is very accurate, because those who post are fully accountable to the other students who went their also. This will confirm your deepest suspicions of this being a negative program.
Just because there are posts here saying WWASP is good doesn't mean it is true. WWASP employees, and others with a financial of emotional (still brainwashed and feeling guilty) motives for coming here and spreading program propoganda. Mostly, the program people come here to bash us. I suppose they find it fun, and reminds them of what its like at the program."
And there are many other anti-WWASP sites, and groups as well. No pro-WWASP groups yet... wonder why?
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I am staying away from there web site. I guess what I am looking at is how many kids go through this school in a year to how many I have read about. I am searching if I wasnt then I wouldn't be here. I seem to read about the same kids over and over agian.
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On 2005-12-19 09:36:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It would appear the school is helping more then not.
This is because WWASP spends TONS of money on propoganda and suing those who want to spread the truth about this gulag.
See how it worked on you??
"
It didn't work on me. See this is what I mean you sound like an angry person who may have went through a program and maybe you were more rebellious then most and couldn't brake from that.
If I am questioning it, then how has it worked?
I am just looking for answers. I am not the one who put him there I can't get him out. But I would like to know as much as I can to be here for him when he returns in June. It is hard to know who to believe. like you say people that work there post stuff here to make the school sound good how am I to know that the same kids aren't reposting as different people so the numbers look bigger.
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On 2005-12-19 10:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am staying away from there web site. I guess what I am looking at is how many kids go through this school in a year to how many I have read about. I am searching if I wasnt then I wouldn't be here. I seem to read about the same kids over and over agian. "
Good luck. There is no start or end time to the program, and everyone is scattered across the country. WWASP doesn't allow you to take any contact information of your friends with. Basically they just throw you back out into the world, and want nothing to do with you again... that is... unless you break your home contract and need to be re-enrolled.
A lot of people come here looking for statistics like you, it doesn't exist, and there is no real way of figuring it out for yourself. Only WWASP and it's employees could do this, for some reason they choose not to. Wonder why??
I guess the question is... how many torture stories do I want you to hear before you are convinced this isn't a good place for a kid to be? A dozen, a hundred, five hundred? Go to myspace groups, that's where the most are.
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that is... unless you break your home contract and need to be re-enrolled. ]
What is the home contract? What if you are 18 when you get out, is there still some sort of rules to follow?
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On 2005-12-19 10:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-12-19 10:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I am staying away from there web site. I guess what I am looking at is how many kids go through this school in a year to how many I have read about. I am searching if I wasnt then I wouldn't be here. I seem to read about the same kids over and over agian. "
Good luck. There is no start or end time to the program, and everyone is scattered across the country. WWASP doesn't allow you to take any contact information of your friends with. Basically they just throw you back out into the world, and want nothing to do with you again... that is... unless you break your home contract and need to be re-enrolled.
A lot of people come here looking for statistics like you, it doesn't exist, and there is no real way of figuring it out for yourself. Only WWASP and it's employees could do this, for some reason they choose not to. Wonder why??
I guess the question is... how many torture stories do I want you to hear before you are convinced this isn't a good place for a kid to be? A dozen, a hundred, five hundred? Go to myspace groups, that's where the most are."
My understanding is he turns 18 and will be leaving on his own in June. I wish you people would understand I didn't put him there nor can I get him out. I am just trying to learn all I can so I can be there for him when he gets out. Instead of being mad/mean please try to help. What do you think you needed or didn't get from friends or loved ones when you got out?
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I am not the one who put him there I can't get him out. But I would like to know as much as I can to be here for him when he returns in June.
Will he have "graduated" the program in June, or will he be leaving at 18? The length of time in the program makes a big difference, too.
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On 2005-12-19 10:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
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I am not the one who put him there I can't get him out. But I would like to know as much as I can to be here for him when he returns in June.
Will he have "graduated" the program in June, or will he be leaving at 18? The length of time in the program makes a big difference, too."
I am assuming he will be leaving at 18. He has only been there a few weeks. So I don't know what it takes to graduate from there. He has told his parents that he will be there for the ride but will leave when he is 18.
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It didn't work on me.
Then where did you come up with this?
It would appear the school is helping more then not.
It is not up to the people who were wronged to prove anything to anybody. We spend our time here telling people because we want to prevent more abuse, I have no other motive.
I just showed you over 1,000 people who belong to groups specifically anti-program, and anti-wwasp. Show me a group of people anywhere near that size of pro-program graduates/alumni or parents. None exist. Zero.
I'd say it appears the school is not helping anybody, other than the people making millions of dollars per year off it.
See this is what I mean you sound like an angry person who may have went through a program and maybe you were more rebellious then most and couldn't brake from that.
I sound mean? You obviously haven't encountered a program person yet. Not sure what the rest of that sentence means, and honestly I don't care. It's up to you to do the right thing, not I - you are being presented with information, it's your choice what to do with that information.
I am just looking for answers. I am not the one who put him there I can't get him out. But I would like to know as much as I can to be here for him when he returns in June. It is hard to know who to believe. like you say people that work there post stuff here to make the school sound good how am I to know that the same kids aren't reposting as different people so the numbers look bigger.
You should take everything posted on this board with a grain of salt, we could all the same person. Again, go to myspace and talk to the hundreds of kids there who have profiles and pictures, and maybe that will alleviate your doubts. Maybe not, again, that's up to you.
How do you know for sure he is coming home in June? Does he turn 18 in June? If you want more detailed information, you can't be so vague with your posts. Are you his parent, sibling, friend or what?
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My understanding is he turns 18 and will be leaving on his own in June. I wish you people would understand I didn't put him there nor can I get him out. I am just trying to learn all I can so I can be there for him when he gets out. Instead of being mad/mean please try to help. What do you think you needed or didn't get from friends or loved ones when you got out? "
Well, maybe you should try talking to the people who did put him there and help them to understand how important it is to get him out. Maybe you could help them to understand by showing them some of the sites posted previously.
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Here's some info on SCL:
http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.html#springcreek (http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.html#springcreek)
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If you want to know what it's like to be sent when you are 17.5 and looking forward to turning 18, read this BLOG:
http://springcreeklodgeexperience.blogspot.com/ (http://springcreeklodgeexperience.blogspot.com/)
It's a great first-person detailed account of SCL life, and what happens once you turn 18.
It's not as simple as just leaving at 18, although it might seem like that now.
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What do you think you needed or didn't get from friends or loved ones when you got out? "
Understanding, love, and forgiveness. Instead, I came home to a family I didn't know, who had been taken in by a program. I left within a week.
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On 2005-12-19 10:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It didn't work on me.
Then where did you come up with this?
It would appear the school is helping more then not.
It is not up to the people who were wronged to prove anything to anybody. We spend our time here telling people because we want to prevent more abuse, I have no other motive.
I just showed you over 1,000 people who belong to groups specifically anti-program, and anti-wwasp. Show me a group of people anywhere near that size of pro-program graduates/alumni or parents. None exist. Zero.
I'd say it appears the school is not helping anybody, other than the people making millions of dollars per year off it.
See this is what I mean you sound like an angry person who may have went through a program and maybe you were more rebellious then most and couldn't brake from that.
I sound mean? You obviously haven't encountered a program person yet. Not sure what the rest of that sentence means, and honestly I don't care. It's up to you to do the right thing, not I - you are being presented with information, it's your choice what to do with that information.
I am just looking for answers. I am not the one who put him there I can't get him out. But I would like to know as much as I can to be here for him when he returns in June. It is hard to know who to believe. like you say people that work there post stuff here to make the school sound good how am I to know that the same kids aren't reposting as different people so the numbers look bigger.
You should take everything posted on this board with a grain of salt, we could all the same person. Again, go to myspace and talk to the hundreds of kids there who have profiles and pictures, and maybe that will alleviate your doubts. Maybe not, again, that's up to you.
How do you know for sure he is coming home in June? Does he turn 18 in June? If you want more detailed information, you can't be so vague with your posts. Are you his parent, sibling, friend or what?
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I am a good friend!!! I feel like I am being attacked I barly had time to read anything you have givin me. He will be turning 18 in june.
Sorry I am having a hard time typing my feelings this is all new to me. I just want to be a good friend and be here for him when he gets out.
I can't get him out!! but yet i feel i am still being attached
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I don't mean to sound that way, I apoogize if I do. I am rarely cordial because program trolls come here and pretend to be nice. I have nothing against you, and don't mean to sound mean.
Read the springcreekexperienceblog and you'll understand more. YES YOU CAN HELP! After he turns 18, if he has to take his exit plan, he will definitely need help.
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I am a good friend!!! I feel like I am being attacked I barly had time to read anything you have givin me. He will be turning 18 in june.
Sorry I am having a hard time typing my feelings this is all new to me. I just want to be a good friend and be here for him when he gets out.
I can't get him out!! but yet i feel i am still being attached"
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It sounds like we are talking of the same person. He has alot of good friends who would like to do anything they could for him. If we are speaking of the same person, hopefully when/if he gets out in June, he will know we will all be there for him and help him in whatever way necessary. At this time, all we can do is hope for the best. Trust me, I am not attacking you. I think you must be a very good friend. Maybe you could talk to his family, perhaps they would listen to you.
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I don't know why my post turned colors? Oh well, I hope you can read it.
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Has to do with the quote tags not being quite right. :grin:
I know you can read it if you highlight it...
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On 2005-12-19 11:14:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Has to do with the quote tags not being quite right. :grin:
I know you can read it if you highlight it... "
Oh, thanks!
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On 2005-12-19 11:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
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I am a good friend!!! I feel like I am being attacked I barly had time to read anything you have givin me. He will be turning 18 in june.
Sorry I am having a hard time typing my feelings this is all new to me. I just want to be a good friend and be here for him when he gets out.
I can't get him out!! but yet i feel i am still being attached"
It sounds like we are talking of the same person. He has alot of good friends who would like to do anything they could for him. If we are speaking of the same person, hopefully when/if he gets out in June, he will know we will all be there for him and help him in whatever way necessary. At this time, all we can do is hope for the best. Trust me, I am not attacking you. I think you must be a very good friend. Maybe you could talk to his family, perhaps they would listen to you.
"
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His name is Brandon. We are from florida. Are we talking about the same person? His family has read alot of the info on the web. After he was put in. Now they are confused. I feel sorry for them they have people yelling at them bringing up stuff in the past. They are only making it worse. They really are good parents not the type to just send him off so they dont have to deal with him. I am hoping if these people who were playing with his mind and now are attaching his parents would just let them alone so they can deal with there feeling. Maybe they will go get him. I have to admit it is hard on the brain reading all this with all the emotions I feel. I can only guess it is worse on the parents afraid to make any more rash desions.
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His name is Brandon. We are from florida. Are we talking about the same person? His family has read alot of the info on the web. After he was put in. Now they are confused. I feel sorry for them they have people yelling at them bringing up stuff in the past. They are only making it worse. They really are good parents not the type to just send him off so they dont have to deal with him. I am hoping if these people who were playing with his mind and now are attaching his parents would just let them alone so they can deal with there feeling. Maybe they will go get him. I have to admit it is hard on the brain reading all this with all the emotions I feel. I can only guess it is worse on the parents afraid to make any more rash desions."
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No, I guess we are talking about two different people. The person I know went to many people for help and guidance, but they were unable to help him since his parents would not listen to him or talk to anyone. I'm sure this is a common story on here, since not very many kids go into this program voluntarily and there is alot of hard feelings between the parents and the kid and his friends. Good luck to your friend.
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On 2005-12-19 12:26:00, Anonymous wrote:
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His name is Brandon. We are from florida. Are we talking about the same person? His family has read alot of the info on the web. After he was put in. Now they are confused. I feel sorry for them they have people yelling at them bringing up stuff in the past. They are only making it worse. They really are good parents not the type to just send him off so they dont have to deal with him. I am hoping if these people who were playing with his mind and now are attaching his parents would just let them alone so they can deal with there feeling. Maybe they will go get him. I have to admit it is hard on the brain reading all this with all the emotions I feel. I can only guess it is worse on the parents afraid to make any more rash desions."
No, I guess we are talking about two different people. The person I know went to many people for help and guidance, but they were unable to help him since his parents would not listen to him or talk to anyone. I'm sure this is a common story on here, since not very many kids go into this program voluntarily and there is alot of hard feelings between the parents and the kid and his friends. Good luck to your friend."
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Are you talking about the kids Alex I read about in the spring creek lodge forum?
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All I hear is how this place is bad. Can anyone give me some alternative places to send him for help. If I had something like that to take back to his parents maybe that would help. Other then let him find his own way to make mistakes and learn on his own. This wouldn't be an option. His parents are really trying to give him the best skills to succeed in life. I need an alternative place where he can get help that isn't abusive like you say this place is.
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On 2005-12-20 06:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"All I hear is how this place is bad. Can anyone give me some alternative places to send him for help. If I had something like that to take back to his parents maybe that would help. Other then let him find his own way to make mistakes and learn on his own. This wouldn't be an option. His parents are really trying to give him the best skills to succeed in life. I need an alternative place where he can get help that isn't abusive like you say this place is."
There must be some local facilities in Florida that can help your friend. Why was he sent to SCL - what was he doing wrong? If it was for drugs, there are many outpatient treatment centers for kids that DO help. That is the problem my friend had, he was never given the chance to try intensive outpatient therapy. Unfortunately, if he doesn't want help, anything you do for him is not going to work. He will have to learn from his mistakes. Most of the time they do learn, sometimes it just takes a little longer than others! Most parents just don't understand that.
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On 2005-12-20 06:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-20 06:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"All I hear is how this place is bad. Can anyone give me some alternative places to send him for help. If I had something like that to take back to his parents maybe that would help. Other then let him find his own way to make mistakes and learn on his own. This wouldn't be an option. His parents are really trying to give him the best skills to succeed in life. I need an alternative place where he can get help that isn't abusive like you say this place is."
There must be some local facilities in Florida that can help your friend. Why was he sent to SCL - what was he doing wrong? If it was for drugs, there are many outpatient treatment centers for kids that DO help. That is the problem my friend had, he was never given the chance to try intensive outpatient therapy. Unfortunately, if he doesn't want help, anything you do for him is not going to work. He will have to learn from his mistakes. Most of the time they do learn, sometimes it just takes a little longer than others! Most parents just don't understand that."
I don't believe that his parents don't understand that. I feel they are afraid to find him dead or kill someone else. They are trying to avoid that. Yes it was drugs and a year of making very bad judgments and not taking responsibility's for it always blaming someone else.
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Well, I still believe they should be able to find local treatment facilities that could help him. If his parents are beginning to question what they have done, then it is time for them to get him out of there.
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His parents are really trying to give him the best skills to succeed in life.
I feel they are afraid to find him dead or kill someone else.
not taking responsibility's for it always blaming someone else.
You sure use a lot of program speak... makes ya wonder.
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On 2005-12-20 09:23:00, Anonymous wrote:
"His parents are really trying to give him the best skills to succeed in life.
I feel they are afraid to find him dead or kill someone else.
not taking responsibility's for it always blaming someone else.
You sure use a lot of program speak... makes ya wonder. "
I don't know what you mean by program speak you can wonder all you want. I am looking for somewhere for him. not out patient to easy for him to run to the people that are still doing the drugs before he is ready. If I was part of the program wouldn't I be saying he is where he needs to be? duh
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Is there such a place where they keep him but have family therapy on top of the drug issues
so he can re bond with his family. I tried looking but I am having a hard time finding anything?
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You can't make someone quit using drugs, they have to WANT to quit. If you want him locked up somewhere, then I guess leave him at SCL, or better yet, Jail! He is not a child, you can't pick his friends for him. He needs to be accountable for his own decisions. Are they going to want to control what he does, who he sees when he is 20? 30? 40? Sometimes, you just have to let people make their mistakes and learn from them.
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On 2005-12-20 10:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Is there such a place where they keep him but have family therapy on top of the drug issues
so he can re bond with his family. I tried looking but I am having a hard time finding anything?"
Yea, its called inpatient rehabilitation treatment center. The same places that offer outpatient, usually offer inpatient. I had a very close friend who went through outpatient substance abuse treatment, continued in school, graduated, and is on to college. It does work, if the individual wants it to work. What makes you think your friend wouldn't succeed in outpatient treatment? Quit thinking for him and his family - let him think for himself.
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On 2005-12-20 10:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You can't make someone quit using drugs, they have to WANT to quit. If you want him locked up somewhere, then I guess leave him at SCL, or better yet, Jail! He is not a child, you can't pick his friends for him. He needs to be accountable for his own decisions. Are they going to want to control what he does, who he sees when he is 20? 30? 40? Sometimes, you just have to let people make their mistakes and learn from them. "
FIRST OF ALL AGAIN I AM NOT THE ONE WHO LOCKED HIM UP!!! SECONDLY EVERYONE MATURES AT A DIFFERENT RATE HE MAY BE 17 BUT HE HAS A LOT TO LEARN. WE SHOULD HELP OUR KIDS UNTIL THEY ARE READY. ARE YOU TELLING ME IF YOU HAVE KIDS? WHEN THEY ARE 18 IF THEY ARE READY OR NOT THEY ARE TO LEAVE YOUR HOUSE WITH YOU SAYING GOOD LUCK SINK OR SWIM. I THINK THAT IS SOOOO WRONG. MY KIDS CAN STAY HOME UNTIL THEY HAVE THE SKILLS AND JOB IT TAKES AS LONG AS THEY ARE RESPONSIBLE. MOST KIDS GRADUATE AT 18 AND ARE A FAR WAY FROM READY TO GO MAKE IT ON THERE OWN. IT SOUNDS LIKE TO ME YOU ARE A KID YOURSELF. SEEING YOU USED THE PHRASE CONTROL HIM. IT IS NOT CONTROL IT IS PARENTING. YOU NEVER STOP BEING A PARENT. YOU MAY NOT BE ABLE TO PICK THERE FRIENDS BUT YOU SHOULD TRY YOUR BEST TO STEER THEM IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
PART OF ME ALSO BELIEVES HE SHOULD BE SENT OUT ON HIS OWN TO LEARN BUT I CAN ALSO SEE A PARENTS POINT OF VIEW. YOU CAN JUST SEND HIM ON HIS WAY AND SAY WELL WHEN YOU DECIDE TO QUIT DOING DRUGS LET ME KNOW. THAT IS THE KIDS THAT END UP DEAD!! BECAUSE NOBODY CARED ENOUGH TO HELP.
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It sounds like they should have been trying to help him long before now - drug problems don't happen overnight, and usually not when the kid is 17/18 years old.
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First, unlock you caps. Its annoying and very difficult to read.
Second, I have kids. Yes, they can stay home after they turn 18 but it is NOT my job to dictate what he/she should or shouldn't do with their lives. Both of mine are over 18 and some of the years leading up to that milestone were pretty scary but trying to force them to adopt my POV is a waste of time. There is a reason why kids move out. There is a reason why they become a little nuts for a while. Its called cutting the apron strings, or finding their own autonomy. There is an incredibly fine line between parenting and control nowadays. Quite scary if you ask me. Most kids go through some sort of insane period for a while and most of them grow out of in on their own (even if they do scare the shit out of their parents while going thru said period). Parents need to stop trying to create these little carbon copies of themselves, or Stepford kids that adhere to the perceived 'norm'.
Of course I'll never stop being a parent, but I know where my limitations are and should be.
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On 2005-12-20 10:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-20 10:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Is there such a place where they keep him but have family therapy on top of the drug issues
so he can re bond with his family. I tried looking but I am having a hard time finding anything?"
Yea, its called inpatient rehabilitation treatment center. The same places that offer outpatient, usually offer inpatient. I had a very close friend who went through outpatient substance abuse treatment, continued in school, graduated, and is on to college. It does work, if the individual wants it to work. What makes you think your friend wouldn't succeed in outpatient treatment? Quit thinking for him and his family - let him think for himself."
MY BROTHER WENT THROUGH OUTPATIENT IT TOOK AN IN PATIENT PLACE TO HELP HIM. MOST DRUGS AND SOME FRIENDS MAKE IT HARD TO BE ABLE TO THINK FOR YOURSELF. WHEN HE WAS IN THE INPATIENT CENTER THEY HAD NO THERAPY FOR HIS FAMILY TO GO THROUGH WITH HIM. I BELIEVE HE ALSO NEEDS TO RE-BOND WITH HIS FAMILY HE IS AT A HARD AGE RIGHT NOW AND NOTHING GOOD CAN COME FROM WALKING AWAY FROM A LOVING FAMILY. I THINK HE HAS FAMILY ISSUES HE HASN'T WORKED OUT AND SHOULD. AS FAR AS THINKING FOR HIM HOW HE IS LOCKED UP HE HAS KNOW IDEA I AM ASKING QUESTIONS. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HIM GET THE HELP HE NEEDS AND IF THIS PLACE IS AS BAD AS YOU SAY THEN IT ISN'T WHAT HE NEEDS. IF I CAN FIND I GOOD PLACE MAYBE IS PARENTS WOULD MOVE HIM. SORRY IF NOBODY CARED TO HELP YOU WHEN YOU WERE IN THERE IF YOU WERE MAYBE YOU WOULDN'T BE SO ANGRY IF SOMEONE DID. SO I REALLY DON'T THINK HE WOULD CARE
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On 2005-12-20 10:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-20 10:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-12-20 10:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
IF I CAN FIND I GOOD PLACE MAYBE IS PARENTS WOULD MOVE HIM.
If his parents remove him then they would be admitting they made a horrible mistake - why would they do that?
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Please hit your caps key.
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On 2005-12-20 10:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
MY BROTHER WENT THROUGH OUTPATIENT IT TOOK AN IN PATIENT PLACE TO HELP HIM. MOST DRUGS AND SOME FRIENDS MAKE IT HARD TO BE ABLE TO THINK FOR YOURSELF. WHEN HE WAS IN THE INPATIENT CENTER THEY HAD NO THERAPY FOR HIS FAMILY TO GO THROUGH WITH HIM. I BELIEVE HE ALSO NEEDS TO RE-BOND WITH HIS FAMILY HE IS AT A HARD AGE RIGHT NOW AND NOTHING GOOD CAN COME FROM WALKING AWAY FROM A LOVING FAMILY. I THINK HE HAS FAMILY ISSUES HE HASN'T WORKED OUT AND SHOULD. AS FAR AS THINKING FOR HIM HOW HE IS LOCKED UP HE HAS KNOW IDEA I AM ASKING QUESTIONS. I WOULD LIKE TO SEE HIM GET THE HELP HE NEEDS AND IF THIS PLACE IS AS BAD AS YOU SAY THEN IT ISN'T WHAT HE NEEDS. IF I CAN FIND I GOOD PLACE MAYBE IS PARENTS WOULD MOVE HIM. SORRY IF NOBODY CARED TO HELP YOU WHEN YOU WERE IN THERE IF YOU WERE MAYBE YOU WOULDN'T BE SO ANGRY IF SOMEONE DID. SO I REALLY DON'T THINK HE WOULD CARE"
Please, the caps lock!!!
He's had about all the 'help' he can stand. Tell his parents to STOP HELPING cause its actually HURTING.
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On 2005-12-20 10:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"First, unlock you caps. Its annoying and very difficult to read.
Second, I have kids. Yes, they can stay home after they turn 18 but it is NOT my job to dictate what he/she should or shouldn't do with their lives. Both of mine are over 18 and some of the years leading up to that milestone were pretty scary but trying to force them to adopt my POV is a waste of time. There is a reason why kids move out. There is a reason why they become a little nuts for a while. Its called cutting the apron strings, or finding their own autonomy. There is an incredibly fine line between parenting and control nowadays. Quite scary if you ask me. Most kids go through some sort of insane period for a while and most of them grow out of in on their own (even if they do scare the shit out of their parents while going thru said period). Parents need to stop trying to create these little carbon copies of themselves, or Stepford kids that adhere to the perceived 'norm'.
Of course I'll never stop being a parent, but I know where my limitations are and should be."
I cant say what I will do when my kids hit that age. I hope I never have to make this decision. mine are young. All I do know is they are good parents. I know I had to learn for myself my parents didnt know what I was doing and still don't. I was the youngest I believe they gave up by the time they got to me. I can't tell his parents what to do it has to be there decision I was hoping to find out something I didnt know here like a family camp or something. There other 2 kids are older and have moved out I believe that is there limitations they are still there parents but they are now adults. I can't speak for them but I believe they try as long as they are under age and resposible for them. they dont try to control there lifes. Sorry about the caps I am at work and I have to use them. So they are always on.
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On 2005-12-20 10:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You can't make someone quit using drugs, they have to WANT to quit. If you want him locked up somewhere, then I guess leave him at SCL, or better yet, Jail! He is not a child, you can't pick his friends for him. He needs to be accountable for his own decisions. Are they going to want to control what he does, who he sees when he is 20? 30? 40? Sometimes, you just have to let people make their mistakes and learn from them. "
I completely agree. Especially after he leaves the program. You approach him with another one, and it might not go as expected.
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On 2005-12-20 11:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-12-20 10:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-20 10:29:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-12-20 10:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
IF I CAN FIND I GOOD PLACE MAYBE IS PARENTS WOULD MOVE HIM.
If his parents remove him then they would be admitting they made a horrible mistake - why would they do that?"
Because with i bet alot of parents they have learned more about this program from sites like this that makes them unsure if this is the place for him. and they do want what is best for him. a good person can admit when they are wrong. but at this point they are not sure.
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On 2005-12-20 11:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-12-20 10:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You can't make someone quit using drugs, they have to WANT to quit. If you want him locked up somewhere, then I guess leave him at SCL, or better yet, Jail! He is not a child, you can't pick his friends for him. He needs to be accountable for his own decisions. Are they going to want to control what he does, who he sees when he is 20? 30? 40? Sometimes, you just have to let people make their mistakes and learn from them. "
I completely agree. Especially after he leaves the program. You approach him with another one, and it might not go as expected."
Approach him with another what?
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On 2005-12-20 11:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
Approach him with another what?"
Program. Can you believe it??
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You said he had two older brothers that moved out, any younger siblings? I hope, if there is, the parents realize that the younger kids see what is happening and it will affect them, too.
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On 2005-12-20 11:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-12-20 11:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
Approach him with another what?"
Program. Can you believe it??"
If it was a program they were there with him also. I think that would show him they care to help him and themselves and are willing to give up there time and life to be a part of his life. All parent make mistakes and so do kids. wouldnt this kind of put them on the same level instead of him feeling like everyone is only coming down on him?
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On 2005-12-20 11:19:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You said he had two older brothers that moved out, any younger siblings? I hope, if there is, the parents realize that the younger kids see what is happening and it will affect them, too."
No younger kids thank god
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On 2005-12-20 11:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
If it was a program they were there with him also. I think that would show him they care to help him and themselves and are willing to give up there time and life to be a part of his life. All parent make mistakes and so do kids. wouldnt this kind of put them on the same level instead of him feeling like everyone is only coming down on him?"
Yeah, well theoretically that's what the programs would have you think. When you delve a little deeper into how they really work and how the 'change' the kids damn druggie ways you realize how completely controlling and sadistic it is. The kid is put under a microscope and any mistakes he makes are reacted to vehemently. The reactions of pro-program parents is what is more damaging, not the actual act of rebellion that the kid is engaging in (no, I'm not saying that rebellion doesn't have its dangers too, just not nearly as deep and lasting as the reactions to that rebellion).
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National Mental Health Association report on bootcamps.
http://www.nmha.org/children/justjuv/bootcamp.cfm (http://www.nmha.org/children/justjuv/bootcamp.cfm)
Are boot camps effective?
Boot camps do not reduce recidivism. Numerous studies of adult and juvenile boot camps have shown that graduates do no better in terms of recidivism than offenders who were incarcerated or, in some cases, than those sentenced to regular probation supervision. In fact, some researchers have found that boot camp graduates are more likely to be re-arrested or are re-arrested more quickly than other offenders.
Boot camps may not be cost effective. Although some boot camps enable jurisdictions to save money because youth serve shorter sentences, others have found that the extra costs of operating boot camps outweigh the benefits. For example, boot camps tend to be more labor intensive and more expensive to operate. If youth are sentenced to a boot camp when they could have been placed in probation or a community-based program, jurisdictions are actually losing money.
Experts agree that a confrontational approach is not appropriate. Most correctional and military experts agree that a confrontational model, employing tactics of intimidation and humiliation, is counterproductive for most youth in the juvenile justice system. The use of this kind of model has led to disturbing incidents of abuse. For youth of color (who represent the vast majority of the juveniles sentenced to boot camps)-as well as for youth with emotional, behavioral, or learning problems-degrading tactics may be particularly inappropriate and potentially damaging. The bullying style and aggressive interactions that characterize the boot camp environment fail to model the pro-social behavior and development of empathy that these youth really need to learn.
Positive changes demonstrated while in the program may not last when a youth returns to his community. Many adult and juvenile offenders sentenced to boot camps report that the program is helpful to them and they feel more positive about their futures. It is unclear, however, whether these attitudinal changes persist after youth leave the boot camp, or whether they are related to actual changes in behavior once a youth returns to his community. Without significant therapeutic intervention while in the program, as well as specialized aftercare following release, boot camp programs have been consistently unsuccessful in "rehabilitating" juvenile or adult offenders.
Boot camps are not a "quick fix." Most boot camps have high drop-out rates (as many as half fail to graduate in some programs), and staff in at least one juvenile program have expressed concern that too many youth lack the maturity and self-control to succeed in a military-style program. After leaving boot camp, youth are not prepared for productive lives in their communities. The Office of Justice Programs of the U.S. Department of Justice has suggested that, for boot camps to be effective, they must incorporate a full range of rehabilitative services and programs, including education, substance abuse treatment, individualized case management, and mental health care. Clearly, the idea of "shock incarceration" as a tough, low-cost alternative to more intensive juvenile justice programming has not been borne out by our 15 years of experience with boot camps across the country.
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this is the most fucked up thread ive seen...
quotes people... quotes
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To the friend:
You're doing the right thing getting all the information you can. You seem to have a pretty realistic take on what your friend's problems are, and how they might be addressed. Obviously your motivation has to do with genuine concern for him, rather than a need to be right about this.
Keep it up. Keep asking questions here and at other places. Keep lines of communication with his family open and honest. I have worked at three programs over the last eight years, and never saw any abuse at all. I've seen many kids do well, and some do just as poorly when they leave as when they got there.
The idea, I think, is to get them safe and get their attention so they can decide for themselves which direction to take,and the family can begin healing. Every program I know of is family intensive, and works with parents and siblings closely.
Are there some bad programs? I guess there may be, but I've seen only good ones---including Spring creek.
Troll? Maybe, but I can trust my own eyes and experience. If your friend's family is feeling uncertain, encourage them to call and to visit so they can trust their own eyes and experience. Of course, at that point, the good folks on this website will just call them brainwashed.
:roll:
The important thing is for the family and your friend to get what THEY think they need.
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Spring Creek IS an abusive facility as well as all other WWASP programs!! Don't fall for the misinformation campaign of an interested few. They will spin and spin and spin but the truth is out there. Go to myspace and research WWASP. There are over a thousands people who belong to anti-WWASP and anti-SCL and program groups. There is a reason. If you want your kid to be WORSE OFF send them to a program. You are sending them to a cult, an abusive cult. Why are there dozens and dozens of lawsuits filed by parents? Why are there websites like this that get thousands of posts per week? Why are there over a thousand people on myspace groups talking out against WWASP? Why specifically THIS program if it's so good. There is a reason. Use your common sense people, the truth is right in front of your face.
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i was at SCL for 10 1/2 months, if you sent your kid there... may god have mercy on your selfish soul...
(SCL) ::unhappy::
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It's hard for me to feel sorry for people that were in the hobbit at scl after being in isolation boxes in samoa. I was in both I guess that I would prefer the hobbit over what they did to us in Samoa. It's the lesser of two evils. Not saying either is good.
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What is the isolation box like? Sorry if someone already talked about this. I don't ever have a whole lot of time to read the entire thread.
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Liar liar
Spring Creek is NOT a good program. The academics for starters are a joke.The staff is uneducated and UNCREDENTIALED. Uneducated hicks.Parents pay a hell of alot of money for uneducated hicks.Abusive ones too.
If your goal is to warehouse a kid .Go to Spring Creek Lodge.
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I used to be staff at SCL. Ok, so I don't agree with the program or some of the things that I saw happen, but not everyone that works there is an "uneducated hick". I, like several others that worked there, do have a college education or are attending school.
Some of us were actually there for the kids and not the paycheck...trust me when I say it wasn't for the paycheck. The amount of work we were expected to do for the amount of pay just didn't balance out. I really liked my job...well I liked working with the kids. They were fantastic! Yeah they had problems, but then what teenager doesn't?? I loved my girls and tried my best to be a great Family Mom to them...even when I was getting verbal abuse up the ass! There are some great staff out there, but SCL never appreciates them. If you think the kids get treated like shit, try being a staff that doesn't go gung ho on the program 100%
or asks too many questions about policy.
Please don't generalize all the staff. I do have all my teeth....I don't have a shotgun rack in the back of my rig...And I'm not married to my cousin Bubba. :razz:
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On 2005-12-27 14:13:00, The Liger wrote:
"What is the isolation box like? Sorry if someone already talked about this. I don't ever have a whole lot of time to read the entire thread.
"
I want to know too! Was it like a coffin, or was it a small room. Seriously, I don't know because when I was in Isolation Room at CCM back in 1990 it was a small room with a bare floor on the first floor of the manor. This was in the very early stages of WWASP. It was funny, one time I was thrown in there, and the walls were made out of laminate partical board. I ripped down the inside wall, then kicked out the other one, and climbed out between the 2 x 4's. I remember the person on the other side being scared shitless of what I might do to them. I didn't hurt them though, I was laughing my ass off!!!!! But, I think times have changed!
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Well at the infamous Le tiarra facility in Samoa there were four cells in a row. They had dutch doors (doors that split in the middle so you can have the top open and the bottom closed) They usually left the entire door closed unless the kid was on suicide watch. The dimensions were around 3 feet wide by four feet deep. There was a 12x12in. window high up with rebar bars running through it and a layer of rabbitwire covering the outside. There was a small benchledge on the back wall but usually one was'nt allowed to sit on it because they oftentimes made you lay face down on the floor or if they somewhat liked you, you could sit indian style on the floor.There seemed to be a constant nauseating aroma of body odor. The floor smelled of urine and feces as persons detained were often denied bathroom privaledges if they had offended certain staff members. There were dried bits of feces upon occasion. Ants, cockroaches,spiders and crickets often made their way under the door as well as an occasional small gecko but mostly ants; they were the worst. They would strip you down to your underwear and make you lay facedown until they decided that you could leave.
They had plenty of restraints (handcuffs, shackles and duct tape) which they did'nt hesitate to use if they could find any excuse to do so. If you talked they would take great pleasure in silencing you. The cells were out of sight from the rest of the facility and staff members were free to beat kids mercilessly if they wanted to settle a score and they often did. They would even heap more consequences upon you if you did anything other than lay there in silence,, for example category 4 rule infractions were sometimes given for being out of control "verballly" This usually ended up tacking on more time. All for simply speaking. That alone could be reason enough for them to apply restraints and duct tape your mouth closed. I personally was roughed up by staff on several occasions and often heard others screaming as they were beaten. They would give you drinks of water twice a day and then a bowl of rice for dinner if you were behaving.
One boy who had a severe mental disorder, I'm no professional but I would guess schitzophrenia had a severe breakdown and was locked in one of the cells for 3 plus months talking to people who were'nt there which often brought the wrath of staff members down on him. He went in there a very big and strong boy and then came out at the end of his ordeal a frail shell and skeleton of what he had been. He was finally sent back to the U.S. after several months of living in a box. I guess they finally realized that the kid was really sick but not before they collected several months more tuition. Well that's the basic description of what it was like.
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I'm speechless. I read things like that, and I want to cry. Thank you for taking the time to inform us.
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No crying necessary. I just wish that I could meet a couple of those staff in a dark alley someday.
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sounds like you belonged in that room
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On 2005-12-28 11:26:00, CCM girl 1989 wrote:
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On 2005-12-27 14:13:00, The Liger wrote:
"What is the isolation box like? Sorry if someone already talked about this. I don't ever have a whole lot of time to read the entire thread.
"
I want to know too! Was it like a coffin, or was it a small room. Seriously, I don't know because when I was in Isolation Room at CCM back in 1990 it was a small room with a bare floor on the first floor of the manor. This was in the very early stages of WWASP. It was funny, one time I was thrown in there, and the walls were made out of laminate partical board. I ripped down the inside wall, then kicked out the other one, and climbed out between the 2 x 4's. I remember the person on the other side being scared shitless of what I might do to them. I didn't hurt them though, I was laughing my ass off!!!!! But, I think times have changed!"
sounds like you belonged in that room. or one that was padded.
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On 2006-01-03 03:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"sounds like you belonged in that room"
move on troll. :wave:
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sounds like you belonged in that room. or one that was padded.
remember troll you already tried baiting with this one-liner? sorry... wont work, maybe you should get a life instead... good luck with that. :wave:
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On 2005-12-30 13:52:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No crying necessary. I just wish that I could meet a couple of those staff in a dark alley someday."
We can always hope.
:skull: :skull: :skull: :skull: :skull:
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Troll lol That is why it is hard to believe you people. I am not a troll. but whatever makes you feel good. :smokin:
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::fuckoff::
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On 2006-01-03 03:43:00, Anonymous wrote:
I want to know too! Was it like a coffin, or was it a small room. Seriously, I don't know because when I was in Isolation Room at CCM back in 1990 it was a small room with a bare floor on the first floor of the manor. This was in the very early stages of WWASP. It was funny, one time I was thrown in there, and the walls were made out of laminate partical board. I ripped down the inside wall, then kicked out the other one, and climbed out between the 2 x 4's. I remember the person on the other side being scared shitless of what I might do to them. I didn't hurt them though, I was laughing my ass off!!!!! But, I think times have changed!"
sounds like you belonged in that room. or one that was padded."
Why would you say that? Sounds like she had a sane response to being locked up in a box. Damn you people are judgemental.
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sounds like you belonged in that room. or one that was padded."
I agree with the above poster, this is an absolute horrible things to say and you should be ashamed of yourself. There is no excuse to make light of the hell-on-Earth some kids have gone through, absolutely none.
I would never wish this treatment on my worst enemy. I could not live with myself if I did.
And WWASP uses it to 'help teens'?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE!?! :???:
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The same type of attitude some adults on here have towards people being abused is, sadly, the same one they have when their kids tell them what's happened. They speak as if whatever the teens have done (having sex, talking back, running away, breaking a program rule) is some sort of justification for using torture as a form of delayed and extended punishment. You're the same types who would've made good Nazis or joined in on the Abu Ghraib abuse.
I was at a program where we stood demerits, facing the wall without moving or talking, no radio or background noise permitted, for 25 minute increments each. About half the facility would get an average of 2-3 daily for minor offenses. Once we asked the staff to stand just one demerit, just once, to see what it was like. Only one woman took us up on the offer, she couldn't make it through, she cried, and she actually began to talk to us for the more minor offenses (stray hair stuck in shower drain) rather than give out demerits every time a minor infraction occurred.
As an adult, I hope to instill compassion and forgiveness in my own children. Let he who is perfect cast the first stone.
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On 2006-01-03 18:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"The same type of attitude some adults on here have towards people being abused is, sadly, the same one they have when their kids tell them what's happened. They speak as if whatever the teens have done (having sex, talking back, running away, breaking a program rule) is some sort of justification for using torture as a form of delayed and extended punishment. You're the same types who would've made good Nazis or joined in on the Abu Ghraib abuse.
I was at a program where we stood demerits, facing the wall without moving or talking, no radio or background noise permitted, for 25 minute increments each. About half the facility would get an average of 2-3 daily for minor offenses. Once we asked the staff to stand just one demerit, just once, to see what it was like. Only one woman took us up on the offer, she couldn't make it through, she cried, and she actually began to talk to us for the more minor offenses (stray hair stuck in shower drain) rather than give out demerits every time a minor infraction occurred.
As an adult, I hope to instill compassion and forgiveness in my own children. Let he who is perfect cast the first stone."
Ive ALWAYS wondered why people could do this to others and not even have the thought of thinking what it would be like to go through it themselves!
But hey, when youve had such stories as one of the Kays saying you HAVE to break down the childs will and make them feel hopeless (anyone got that quote?) or that BS parent who said it was GOOD when her child had to hae his nose to a wall in a stress position and how vthe staffer talked to teh kid and they "laughed about it" they demonstrate their lack of thinking ability. :roll: Nobody writes curriculum for self-determined spiritual individuals and expects to sell it in the public school market.
John Taylor Gatto
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I was at scl in 2001 and 2002... a long time ago now. in retrospect i am not quite sure how i feel. personally i dont agree with many of the programs practices, but at the same time I miss the place. I visit every so often, and I honestly have a soft spot for the place in my heart. times have changed tho, and from what I see when i go back and visit, the place is looser, which in my opinion makes for less bonding and stuff. i dunno, i guess im glad i went there. i was actually happy. but at the time i just wanted to get home. to be honest, id go back as a student to 2001 in a heartbeat.
-Mike O'Brien
I am not denying that abuse goes on sometimes at SCL tho. there is shit that happens, that shouldn't. But for me, i enjoyed myself :smile:
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"looser" = "less bonding and stuff"? So, bonding only comes from suffering and torment? "Daddy says I love you with his belt" comes to mind.
And you miss a place that you dont deny being abusive? :???:
You spoken to a therapist? Im sure youve heard of stockholm syndrome by now, but this just besmirks of being brainwashed. It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2006-01-03 21:20 ]
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i dont agree with many of the programs practices
I am not denying that abuse goes on sometimes at SCL tho.
You really don't think there is somehwere better for parents to send their kids who need 'help' or treatment or whatever? Sure some of us made some good friends while we were there... I did too. But come on, would you actually suggest this place to other people? It's nothing but a scam... they wharehouse teens for money. That's it. Add some humiliation and fear tactics and you got 'behavior mod' I guess. Oh well- obviously I DONT support WWASP or SCL... but to each his own. GOod luck with your future.
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i didnt read all of your message because it appears there was a miscommunication. i didnt get beat, i know others who did. there is nothing you can argue with me about as it is my statement about how i felt. im not saying anything about the moral code followed at SCL. all i am stating is i enjoyed myself and was happy. as far as the bonding and stuff goes...to make it a little more clear: i think if people go through hard shit together, they become close. this doesnt mean abuse per say, simply tougher rules. I could be wrong, it's just my opinion. But I'm glad i could clear up your misunderstanding -MO
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also, i am not condoning any practices of SCL, up until like 2 years ago i was very resentful of SCL. now i look at it not in terms of my personal feelings towards scl or what goes on there, but simply my personal happiness which i had there. im not suggesting anyone send there kid there. im not saying that it "saved my life" im just saying, i had many adventures, trials, fun times, met interesting and close friends, etc..." if anyone wants to try an argue it serves no point, as i most likely agree with you on many things concerning wwasp. to assume otherwise is a rediculous stance to take.
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i didnt read all of your message
Likewise! :lol:
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What happened with this persons "friend". Did his parents pull him out, or is he still locked up at SCL? Just wondering what, if anything, has been done for him.
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He is still there.
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Sorry to hear that you were unable to get through to his parents. Keep him in your prayers, and hope that he is able to leave when he turns 18.
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It appears he is doing as good as expected. He has not lost any points and is now the bunk leader or whatever they call it. He has almost 1000 points. They said he is very intelligent and has not been a problem at all. He is a respectful kid so I pray he will not have any problems.
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Sounds like he is doing what he needs to do. How does the point system work, do you need so many in order to graduate, get special privileges? Have you been able to communicate with him at all?
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i didnt read all of your message because it appears there was a miscommunication. i didnt get beat, i know others who did. there is nothing you can argue with me about as it is my statement about how i felt.
You're what the layperson would call "brainwashed" bub. Thats like saying you disagree with Al Quaida, but still liked having tea and crumpets with Bin Laden.
im not saying anything about the moral code followed at SCL. all i am stating is i enjoyed myself and was happy. as far as the bonding and stuff goes...to make it a little more clear: i think if people go through hard shit together, they become close. this doesnt mean abuse per say, simply tougher rules. I could be wrong, it's just my opinion. But I'm glad i could clear up your misunderstanding -MO"
Thats a nonsense opinion! You dont have to traumatize or otherwise make people suffer and commiserate to bring together friendship or just regular bonding. There are ways to do it without undue suffering and the emotional (or physical) scarring that goes with it.
"First, do no harm". Theres no need to do it with this suffering unless you just buy into such a mentality. Does this mean parents should beat all of their children and let them try to console eachother to build togetherness?
Youre obviously a traumatized, influenced individual, or a troll. In the former case Id seriously suggest you get therapy and stop believing the shit put in your head by the seminars.
In the latter case, well, go hide under that bridge you came out from under.
In either case, I pray to god you're not a parent.[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2006-01-04 13:02 ]
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On 2006-01-04 13:00:00, Nihilanthic wrote:
"i didnt read all of your message because it appears there was a miscommunication. i didnt get beat, i know others who did. there is nothing you can argue with me about as it is my statement about how i felt.
You're what the layperson would call "brainwashed" bub. Thats like saying you disagree with Al Quaida, but still liked having tea and crumpets with Bin Laden.
im not saying anything about the moral code followed at SCL. all i am stating is i enjoyed myself and was happy. as far as the bonding and stuff goes...to make it a little more clear: i think if people go through hard shit together, they become close. this doesnt mean abuse per say, simply tougher rules. I could be wrong, it's just my opinion. But I'm glad i could clear up your misunderstanding -MO"
Thats a nonsense opinion! You dont have to traumatize or otherwise make people suffer and commiserate to bring together friendship or just regular bonding. There are ways to do it without undue suffering and the emotional (or physical) scarring that goes with it.
"First, do no harm". Theres no need to do it with this suffering unless you just buy into such a mentality. Does this mean parents should beat all of their children and let them try to console eachother to build togetherness?
Youre obviously a traumatized, influenced individual, or a troll. In the former case Id seriously suggest you get therapy and stop believing the shit put in your head by the seminars.
In the latter case, well, go hide under that bridge you came out from under.
In either case, I pray to god you're not a parent.[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2006-01-04 13:02 ]"
And just what qualifications do YOU have to tell this person that what they think is wrong and that they need therapy? or that they are brainwashed?
He states that HE wasn't abuse, that HE enjoyed his experience. HE felt that tough rules - not abuse - enforced a sense of bonding.
You weren't there. You aren't him. You didn't experience what he did. Who the hell are you to make judgements about him and tell him he is brainwashed and needs therapy?
"What the layperson would call" Ah, and just what would you consider yourself? A trained expert?
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I agree, there is absolutely no reason to bash this poster, it's obvious he is being truthful about his experience.
Sometimes one must read between the lines, so to speak. Sure, you bond with your other students at SCL. I did too, everyone does, unless they are too young or socially an outcast. Surely the bonding is a sign of the trauma, comparing this to other situations; war is one of the most bonding experiences most would agree. It is also the most traumatic.
Yes, abuse occurs at SCL. As a parent, are you willing to gamble with your child's well-being? I sure wouldn't be.
On 2006-01-03 22:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i didnt read all of your message because it appears there was a miscommunication. i didnt get beat, i know others who did. there is nothing you can argue with me about as it is my statement about how i felt. im not saying anything about the moral code followed at SCL. all i am stating is i enjoyed myself and was happy. as far as the bonding and stuff goes...to make it a little more clear: i think if people go through hard shit together, they become close. this doesnt mean abuse per say, simply tougher rules. I could be wrong, it's just my opinion. But I'm glad i could clear up your misunderstanding -MO"
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On 2006-01-03 20:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I was at scl in 2001 and 2002... a long time ago now. in retrospect i am not quite sure how i feel. personally i dont agree with many of the programs practices, but at the same time I miss the place. I visit every so often, and I honestly have a soft spot for the place in my heart. times have changed tho, and from what I see when i go back and visit, the place is looser, which in my opinion makes for less bonding and stuff. i dunno, i guess im glad i went there. i was actually happy. but at the time i just wanted to get home. to be honest, id go back as a student to 2001 in a heartbeat.
-Mike O'Brien
I am not denying that abuse goes on sometimes at SCL tho. there is shit that happens, that shouldn't. But for me, i enjoyed myself :smile:
"
Thanks it makes me feel better that if he is respectful to adult and follows what he is suppose to do chances are he will not be physical injured. by nature he is respectful to adults and should for the most part keep to himself.
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Thanks it makes me feel better that if he is respectful to adult and follows what he is suppose to do chances are he will not be physical injured. by nature he is respectful to adults and should for the most part keep to himself.
You really need to get a username. You post all this forum refering to someone as 'he' and the rest of us have no clue who you are talking about.
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His name is Brandon. If you read back to page 2 or 3. A good friend of mine
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And just what qualifications do YOU have to tell this person that what they think is wrong and that they need therapy? or that they are brainwashed?
He states that HE wasn't abuse, that HE enjoyed his experience. HE felt that tough rules - not abuse - enforced a sense of bonding.
You weren't there. You aren't him. You didn't experience what he did. Who the hell are you to make judgements about him and tell him he is brainwashed and needs therapy?
"What the layperson would call" Ah, and just what would you consider yourself? A trained expert?
For one, he never contested abuse happened.
For two, even a cursory examination of the psychological impacts of "program treatment" based on what PSYCHOLOGISTS WHO WENT THROUGH IT THEMSELVES SAID would explain my stance on this.
Furthermore, "non-abusive" suffering/bullshit/WHATEVER to create 'bonding' is nonsensical. What is and what is not pertinant, reasonable and salient harshness and unpleasantness, and what is too far?
Where the hell did the idea of forcing people to endure bullshit to make them bond with eachother come from anyway? Its nonsense. Who the hell thinks "well lets throw a bunch of strangers together, make them suffer, and then theyll bond and personally grow and stuff" besides him? Does he speak with these people now? Is he friends with them? Does leaning to commiserate with other people you suffered with (within the rules of the program, of course :roll: ) prepare him for how to bond with regular friends, a lover, family, and job relationships? How well would it fly for him to make up some contrived suffering and "things to overcome" and push psychological buttons on his friends to make them "bond" with him? Program bullshit doesnt relate very well to the REAL world we live in out here.
"bonding and stuff" PUHLEEZE. I dont have a whole lot of patience for such clearly weak individuals. It pisses me off, and guess what? You cant throw me in OP or take me down a level or try to single me out in some bullshit seminar over it either. Hell, you dont even have an identity of your own! Speaks volumes, dunnit?
Jesus christ... what sort of model of therapy is "kidnap strangers, put them together, keep them in captivity, and psychologically stress them until they break down and keep them under the influence of strict rules and regulations with severe punishments for not conforming to create attachment and need for affection, love and friendship from the program and the other teenagers there because they were cutout from the outside world, even their families"?
Sounds a LOT like a cult. But oh well, you or some other deaduvidiual with a bag on his head will try to change the topic now :lol: The government is much more interested in preserving the purity of its ideology than it is in allowing patients to get effective medicine.
-- Ethan B. Russo, neurologist at Western Montana Clinic
[ This Message was edited by: Nihilanthic on 2006-01-06 07:43 ]
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On 2006-01-03 03:39:00, Anonymous wrote:
"sounds like you belonged in that room"
I would love to see how you would've held up in that room and any feelings of resentment after walking in those shoes.
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On 2005-12-19 05:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"They are not here because only a handful exist. They are typically RECENT graduates who are still under the spell. Find me someone who's been out over 5 years who says SCL was a good choice."
Acutally I am here bc I wanted to know what kind of garbage is out there. I am not a recent grad, I graduated over 5 years ago and I would send my kids there if I felt it was nessary. And to whatever idot posted that there are only a handfull.. you a horibally mistaken. I staffed alot once I got home and I am still in contact with a lot of kids that went there and we all feel the same way. If you don;t know what you are talking about then keep your mouth shut!!!
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Put up or shut up. Tell us your story, what facility you went to, and why you considered it helpful if you want anyone to take you seriously. People who have negative take the time to do this, and you have nothing else to say but a few crude remarks. For all we know, you work for WWASP.
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I staffed alot once I got home and I am still in contact with a lot of kids that went there and we all feel the same way. If you don;t know what you are talking about then keep your mouth shut!!!
I wonder why there is over 600 kids in various anti-WWASP myspace groups, a relatively recent phenomenon while any pro-WWASP groups have yet to be created. Same for this site, tbfight.com, and various others. No pro-WWASP alumni sites. I wonder why?
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If you don;t know what you are talking about then keep your mouth shut!
Meaning anyone who disagrees with you, has no right to speak?
Oh, that's right. We need permission and can only say positive stuff. Right.[ This Message was edited by: AtomicAnt on 2006-01-28 15:53 ]
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I probably wouldn't say I'm grateful for my time spent there at all - but I don't regret it. If I hadn't been there I woulda gotten worse and worse - I even relapsed after the program but not on any of my problem drugs - I still say away from them. It helped me realize that I am not invinceable and bad things can happen to me. I had no concept of that as a teen. Also - the ability to be blatantly honest with my mom and work out our problems is something I am definitely grateful for. Before getting arrested and being sent to SCL I hadn't spoken to my mom in almost a year. We had a really bad falling out. I was in a bad situation in general and I never would've gotten out without something to help me realize that. I don't agree with everything they do at all, and I often worry that I am permenantly messed up by those seminars, but I had no sense of self worth or dignity before going there and I attribute that positive change to the program.
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when did you graduate or get out of SCL?
what family were you in?
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On 2006-01-28 11:03:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I staffed alot once I got home and I am still in contact with a lot of kids that went there and we all feel the same way. If you don;t know what you are talking about then keep your mouth shut!!!
I wonder why there is over 600 kids in various anti-WWASP myspace groups, a relatively recent phenomenon while any pro-WWASP groups have yet to be created. Same for this site, tbfight.com, and various others. No pro-WWASP alumni sites. I wonder why?"
Part of that might have to do with WWASPS intentionally discouraging anyone having any contact with other programmies and during the program not letting you share contact information.
So, obviously, if they bought into the program, theyre told "no" and accept it.
As far as the reason youre alluding to... :silly: My initial response was to sue her for defamation of character, but then I realized that I had no character.
-- Charles Barkley, on hearing Tonya Harding proclaim herself "the Charles Barkley of figure skating"
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[/quote]
Acutally I am here bc I wanted to know what kind of garbage is out there. I am not a recent grad, I graduated over 5 years ago and I would send my kids there if I felt it was nessary. And to whatever idot posted that there are only a handfull.. you a horibally mistaken. I staffed alot once I got home and I am still in contact with a lot of kids that went there and we all feel the same way. If you don;t know what you are talking about then keep your mouth shut!!!"
[/quote]
graduated over five years ago...staffed there...yet you still can't spell...pathetic.
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No wonder these places havent been closed down yet. You all are to busy fighting with each other about who had the worse experience or who is lying than doing something. Venting is a great cathardic experience but it doesnt get much accomplished in this world. Makes me wonder if most of you are still teenagers in your head--did SCL break you down that much? Did they twist you all into being so hateful and jaded or was that part of the reason your folks sent you away? I think some people forget that their parents are to blame too...........
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On 2006-03-20 16:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"No wonder these places havent been closed down yet. You all are to busy fighting with each other about who had the worse experience or who is lying than doing something. Venting is a great cathardic experience but it doesnt get much accomplished in this world. Makes me wonder if most of you are still teenagers in your head--did SCL break you down that much? Did they twist you all into being so hateful and jaded or was that part of the reason your folks sent you away? I think some people forget that their parents are to blame too..........."
You are seeing the product of WWASPS. PTSD, anger issues, all for the bargain price of 4 grand per month for 2 years. Know any parents that are interested? If you were treated like shit and abused in a program would you not be angry about it? I dont think anyone is trying to accomplish anything other than figure out what happened to them and why.
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Many, many, many children & teens are abused everyday and not in private institutions like SCL. Most of them grow up thinking its a normal behavior to treat people like shit. Its hard to feel sorry for kids with folks who can spend 4k a month at these programs; try living in a poor rural family with angry parents----more abuse than what you all went through.
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On 2006-03-31 13:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Many, many, many children & teens are abused everyday and not in private institutions like SCL. Most of them grow up thinking its a normal behavior to treat people like shit. Its hard to feel sorry for kids with folks who can spend 4k a month at these programs; try living in a poor rural family with angry parents----more abuse than what you all went through. "
I can understand what you mean. But, atleast someone isn't making money off your misery.
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On 2006-03-31 13:05:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Many, many, many children & teens are abused everyday and not in private institutions like SCL. Most of them grow up thinking its a normal behavior to treat people like shit. Its hard to feel sorry for kids with folks who can spend 4k a month at these programs; try living in a poor rural family with angry parents----more abuse than what you all went through. "
Yeah.... real tough there... trolling anonymnously. :wstupid: ::troll::
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money isnt everything........trolling?
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Hahahahahaha.......You guys sure have a trained eye to see b.s. like that! You are so right.
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i went to SCL jan 99 to dec 2000 and it saved my life. i know if it wasnt for it i would be dead or pregnant. my name is chelsea chilcoat and me and my dad still stay in touch with programs- seminars, landre foundation, ect. if anyone positive needs to email me feel free [email protected]
once again it saved my life and my brother's (he went to jamaica)
chelsea
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Hook, line and sinker.
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What you argued was that the ends justified the means. You see Chelsea, torture has no accpetance in civilized society. If your program had an ounce of integrity it would give you the credit, not the program. If it had an ounce of integrity it would have provided you with certified teachers, not "self paced study" And if the program had an ounce of itegrity it wouldn't advertise with pictures that were not of the facilities.
And if you got pregnant and had to put the kid up for adoption, you would be giving some couple the greatest gift possible. Forever, they would thank you in their prayers.
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Badpuppy,
I totally agree with you, and I could not have said it better!
CCM girl 1989
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On 2006-04-01 19:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i went to SCL jan 99 to dec 2000 and it saved my life. i know if it wasnt for it i would be dead or pregnant. my name is chelsea chilcoat and me and my dad still stay in touch with programs- seminars, landre foundation, ect. if anyone positive needs to email me feel free [email protected]
once again it saved my life and my brother's (he went to jamaica)
chelsea"
I've been pregnant. It's not a fate worth incarceration. And I doubt you would be pregnant at the moment without SCL---pregnancy only lasts 9 months at a whack, you know.
"I would be dead"---No, usually not. Wild sex is not normally fatal.
When I was pregnant, there were times kneeling to the porcelan god when I almost wished I was dead, but if I could do it again, I would.
Of course "my brother went to Jamaica" -- Wow! Two "would be dead" kids in one family? I deeply doubt it.
Two gullible, cult-brainwashed parents in one family---much more likely.
One obnoxious troll---most likely of all.
Julie
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I don't know why Julie's post reminds me of that Mastercard commercial! They way her post ties it all together in the end..........priceless!
I don't know if you all have seen the spoof on Mastercard's commercial, or not?
If you have a second check it out....it's funny!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 41&pl=true (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8308962544653504641&pl=true)
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On 2006-04-01 19:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i went to SCL jan 99 to dec 2000 and it saved my life. i know if it wasnt for it i would be dead or pregnant. my name is chelsea chilcoat and me and my dad still stay in touch with programs- seminars, landre foundation, ect. if anyone positive needs to email me feel free [email protected]
once again it saved my life and my brother's (he went to jamaica)
chelsea"
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :wave:
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On 2006-04-02 12:46:00, Badpuppy wrote:
"What you argued was that the ends justified the means. You see Chelsea, torture has no accpetance in civilized society. If your program had an ounce of integrity it would give you the credit, not the program. If it had an ounce of integrity it would have provided you with certified teachers, not "self paced study" And if the program had an ounce of itegrity it wouldn't advertise with pictures that were not of the facilities.
And if you got pregnant and had to put the kid up for adoption, you would be giving some couple the greatest gift possible. Forever, they would thank you in their prayers. "
Torture? Oh, horse****.
:rofl:
And for a list of the certified teachers---at least five of whom have MA's or better---go to the state board website. As far as giving Chelsea credit, this girl kicks butt, and she knows it without anyone rattling on about it. She knows she's the one that made things happen.
:wave:
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So far the pro-wwasps myspace group has about 20-30 members (including one dog). The anti-WWASPS groups have well over a thousand and growing everyday. I think the truth is plain to see to even the most skeptical at this point. Why should a parent take a 20 out of a 1000 chance their kid will be safe and make it through with a good attitude? That's what, a whopping two percent chance of success?! I sure wouldn't entrust my child to WWASPS with those kind of odds. Even if you want to use one of these unregulated programs for whatever reason, WWASPS is the bottom of the barrel, it is surprising to me everytime I see a new one open up. If I was a scam artist and had no issues with harming children (no morals) I would open up a program and become rich. Seriously.
Black markets will always be with us. But they will recede in importance when our public morality is consistent with our private one.
Eric Schlosser, Reefer Madness
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On 2006-04-04 11:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-04-02 12:46:00, Badpuppy wrote:
"What you argued was that the ends justified the means. You see Chelsea, torture has no accpetance in civilized society. If your program had an ounce of integrity it would give you the credit, not the program. If it had an ounce of integrity it would have provided you with certified teachers, not "self paced study" And if the program had an ounce of itegrity it wouldn't advertise with pictures that were not of the facilities.
And if you got pregnant and had to put the kid up for adoption, you would be giving some couple the greatest gift possible. Forever, they would thank you in their prayers. "
Torture? Oh, horse****.
:rofl:
And for a list of the certified teachers---at least five of whom have MA's or better---go to the state board website. As far as giving Chelsea credit, this girl kicks butt, and she knows it without anyone rattling on about it. She knows she's the one that made things happen.
:wave: "
I was tortured at WWASPS. Why do you find that so funny?
The schooling at SCL is a joke. Luckily I was only there for a short while before I turned 18 and had finished the majority of my high school education. The kids who spend a significant amount of time there, will be at a serious intellectual disadvantage when they leave. The longer they stay the worse the disadvantage. Not just intellectually, but also socially.
You cannot take one example of a student who feels the benifitted and apply it to everyone else. Yes, there is a small minority of those who will praise the program. The overwhelming majority would disagree, strongly.
I was there in 2000-2001 and there were no teachers that were certified, if they were the state needs to raise it standards. Just locals who babysat the kids as they all worked independently on their own. Remember the class ranges in ages from 12-18. Hard to teach a class like that, and they provide zero one on one tutoring or anything like that.
If you believe what WWASPS puts on it website, I've got a bridge to sell you. They give parents brochures and information with pictures that are not even of the facility they are sending their kid to. They lie. They profit. Kids suffer. Black markets will always be with us. But they will recede in importance when our public morality is consistent with our private one.
Eric Schlosser, Reefer Madness
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Yes, I remember self-paced studies. I remember having the work book, and you put all answers on a seperate page. I also remember them putting me on some really stong anti-depressants.........then me forgetting to put things on paper........then writing all over the work books. I got in trouble, but honestly it was the medication, I didn't mean to do that!
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Reading that Chelsea believes the program "saved her life" and prevented her from becoming pregnant makes me want to cry.How sad.This girl young gril has lost her self respect to a cult.
You would have been ok anyway.
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Yeah, I remember when we would take our "tests", which would count for a full school credit, the teacher would mark the wrong answers, then hand us back the test to show us which ones we got wrong. Then we could take it back to our desk and then when we felt like it, return to the front and retake the same test. The same multiple choice and true/false test. You could take a test without reading anything, memorize your wrong answers and keep guessing until you got it right! I used to sleep behind a book almost everyday.
We should make a t-shirt something like...
"What I learned at WWASPS -- how to sleep while looking awake 101"
I am serious, unless your kid is a retard, they will find the schooling at WWASPS quite simple and useless. All they provide is "busy work" for kids to complete, not an education. If they have a learning disability, it would be putting them at an EXTREME disadvantage in the future. I can't imagine a parent putting their kid at SCL for the academic program... but who knows, they lie about everything else too. Parents, beware the sting of WWASPS!!
PS: who names themselves WWASPS?? Talk about truth in advertising!
(http://http://www.calvin.utvinternet.com/cjwp/images/articles/wildlife/wasp.jpg) Step 1. We came to understand that the government is powerless over people's private use of drugs and that the War on Drugs was making the government's life unmanageable.
--Scott Tillinghast
[ This Message was edited by: Exit Plan on 2006-04-04 17:22 ]
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On 2006-04-04 12:14:00, Exit Plan wrote:
"
On 2006-04-04 11:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-04-02 12:46:00, Badpuppy wrote:
"What you argued was that the ends justified the means. You see Chelsea, torture has no accpetance in civilized society. If your program had an ounce of integrity it would give you the credit, not the program. If it had an ounce of integrity it would have provided you with certified teachers, not "self paced study" And if the program had an ounce of itegrity it wouldn't advertise with pictures that were not of the facilities.
And if you got pregnant and had to put the kid up for adoption, you would be giving some couple the greatest gift possible. Forever, they would thank you in their prayers. "
Torture? Oh, horse****.
:rofl:
And for a list of the certified teachers---at least five of whom have MA's or better---go to the state board website. As far as giving Chelsea credit, this girl kicks butt, and she knows it without anyone rattling on about it. She knows she's the one that made things happen.
:wave: "
I was tortured at WWASPS. Why do you find that so funny?
The schooling at SCL is a joke. Luckily I was only there for a short while before I turned 18 and had finished the majority of my high school education. The kids who spend a significant amount of time there, will be at a serious intellectual disadvantage when they leave. The longer they stay the worse the disadvantage. Not just intellectually, but also socially.
You cannot take one example of a student who feels the benifitted and apply it to everyone else. Yes, there is a small minority of those who will praise the program. The overwhelming majority would disagree, strongly.
I was there in 2000-2001 and there were no teachers that were certified, if they were the state needs to raise it standards. Just locals who babysat the kids as they all worked independently on their own. Remember the class ranges in ages from 12-18. Hard to teach a class like that, and they provide zero one on one tutoring or anything like that.
If you believe what WWASPS puts on it website, I've got a bridge to sell you. They give parents brochures and information with pictures that are not even of the facility they are sending their kid to. They lie. They profit. Kids suffer. Black markets will always be with us. But they will recede in importance when our public morality is consistent with our private one.
Eric Schlosser, Reefer Madness
"
Perhaps in the midst of your distress at being tortured, you had the presence of mind to inquire about the teachers' certification. All that angst must have caused you to miss the twelve teachers who have been here since before you arrived---including myself.
Stop exaggerating; if you genuinely had an awful time at SCL, offer ideas for improvement and keep it honest.
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On 2006-04-04 17:20:00, Exit Plan wrote:
PS: who names themselves WWASPS?? Talk about truth in advertising!
White Anglo Saxon Protestants who think God has ordered them to dominate the world. The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.
-- Bertrand Russell
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Perhaps in the midst of your distress at being tortured, you had the presence of mind to inquire about the teachers' certification. All that angst must have caused you to miss the twelve teachers who have been here since before you arrived---including myself.
Stop exaggerating; if you genuinely had an awful time at SCL, offer ideas for improvement and keep it honest.
If you were certified teachers, why did you not teach?
Improvements: Direct parents to seek professional help. Better treatment options already exist, no reason to reinvent the wheel. SCL is simply the bargain version, in every sense. God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.
--Voltaire (1694-1778)
_________________
http://http://www.springcreeklodgeexperience.blogspot.com | http://http://www.isaccorp.org | http://http://www.teenliberty.org |
http://http://www.tbfight.com | http://http://www.antiwwasp.com | http://http://www.pianofinders.com/es/breakingthesecrecy.htm |[ This Message was edited by: Exit Plan on 2006-04-04 19:59 ]
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Perhaps in the midst of your distress at being tortured, you had the presence of mind to inquire about the teachers' certification. All that angst must have caused you to miss the twelve teachers who have been here since before you arrived---including myself.
Stop exaggerating; if you genuinely had an awful time at SCL, offer ideas for improvement and keep it honest.
tor-ture (t-rchr) n.
1. Infliction of severe physical pain as a means of punishment or coercion.
So long as the hobbit, or any form of isolation exists at SCL, torture will continue. I have been at many psych hospitals, and I have experienced the difference of being placed in isolation in a professional environment, and SCL.
In the hospitals, a kid is placed in isolation only if they are endangering themselves, or others. There are strict regulations, time limits, video cameras, etc.
At SCL, they utilize isolation as punishment. You say the wrong thing to staff, you get sent to isolation for a few days. If you don't cry enough for Gilrease, and "choose out" you spend a few nights in isolation. This is true for a variety of "Cat 5's" and other offenses. Running gets you a stay in isolation. In isolation you recceive a severely lacking diet (only two meals a day, banana and plain bagel for breakfast, tortilla, spoonful of black beans, and handful of lettuce for dinner, toiletry cup for water). No access to clean toilet facilities (portapotty with 50 foot 'walk of shame') for your entire stay. A shower only every three days. The staff are completely isolated and physical violence commonly occurs. It is freezing in winter, you are only allowed one layer, and only a sleeping bag at night. It was freezing, it literally hurt my body as I tried to sleep. Sleeping on a hardwood plank hurts. Kids with mental disorders (girls pulling hair out, boy banging head against wall) spend too much time in isolation, when they should be sent to a professional medical environment. Spending a week straight in a space no bigger than a vanity bathroom hurts your body.
This is, by definition, torture. SCL put us in an extremely uncomfortable physical environment, which abuse commonly occured (I was restrained several times while in the hobbit for no reason, but they find a reason anyways) to ensure our compliance. This is coercion, based on physical and psychological pain. Is this treatment?
Yes, you are right, I had no idea if the teachers were credentialed or not. That was not my point, my meaning was that even if they were qualified, they didn't teach. I don't know if this was your choice or SCL policy, I have no personal animosity towards you. I am not angry, I am sharing my own experience with the only audience who understands. I wish you guys could have actually taught us like normal teachers, and interacted with us. Our class was completely silent all day, my brain went into neutral while there, as I am sure many others do.
From my experience, the entire program is designed to ensure compliance, utilizing whatever means necessary. I no longer think the lack of proper facilities, educational tools, licensed professionals, etc. is a mistake. I think it's all part of the plan, which is for the higher-ups to get rich and richer, without care for those of us entangled in it's mess.
I don't really have any advice for parents seeking alternatives to these programs. All I am hear to say is I was treated like shit at SCL, and came out ten times worse psychologically than when I went in. I still have issues from that place, and I was only there seven months. I can only imagine what is was like for those locked up for years and treated badly.
I have been completely honest, I have nothing to hide. I'll take your word for it I was wrong about the teacher credentials, I hope you are in a place where you can utilize your ability now. The wretchedness of religion is at once an expression and a protest against real wretchedness. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the feeling of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of unspiritual conditions. It is the opium of the people.
--Karl Marx, German economist and political philosopher
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http://http://www.springcreeklodgeexperience.blogspot.com | http://http://www.isaccorp.org | http://http://www.teenliberty.org |
http://http://www.tbfight.com | http://http://www.antiwwasp.com | http://http://www.pianofinders.com/es/breakingthesecrecy.htm |[ This Message was edited by: Exit Plan on 2006-04-04 19:45 ]
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A lot of physical abuse occured while in worksheets too. Whenever I was in worksheets the staff was this young, couldn't have been more than 22, program graduate, who absolutely hated working worksheets. There was this one kid in my family who basically lived in the hobbit and worksheets, he never left. He was barely human, looking in his eyes was scary. It was like lights were on, but nobody was home. He shouldn't have been kept at SCL. He was the punching bag as far as I could tell. It was crazy. He just took it, never stood up for himself, it was like he just wasn't even there. He would do stupid shit all the time and get in trouble in worksheets, and that young staff would bang his head down on the hardwood desk, slam him to the ground and press his elbows into him, all kinds of gnarly shit. This kid would just keep getting up, even though he knew he would get "restrained". I don't know why he kept doing it, I can only guess he had just lost it. Why was he kept at SCL?
When I was up in the hobbit, they brought a girl into the cell next to me because she couldn't stop pulling her hair out. Since I got out I have researched this, and it is a psychological disorder. She was in the hobbit for a day or two waiting for transport to high impact. (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term=high+impact&addterms=phrase&forum=all&search_username=&sortby=p.post_time+desc&searchboth=both&submit=Search) Another kid I shared my hobbit cell with, a rastafarian fellow, was awaiting transfer to tranquility bay (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/search.php?term=tranquility+bay&addterms=phrase&forum=all&search_username=&sortby=p.post_time+desc&searchboth=both&submit=Search) while his parents worked out his passport. He was a smart guy, wish I could remember his name. He was sent away because he had a strong mind, and resisted the seminars and program.
I saw and experienced physical and psychological abuse while at SCL. I can only imagine what I didn't see, I have read horrible stories, in which mine pales in comparison. TB, High Impact, Samoa, those are all in another category all their own as far as physical torture, we've all seen the evidence.
We had a 12 year old in our family, a 12 year old! In a lower level family made up of mostly 15-17 year old, agressive boys. Five years isn't much difference as adults, but at that age, it's a different world. We were treated as if we were cattle in a factory. No individual treatment at all. Mass help, come one, come all, no matter what your ills, we can solve 'em!! Sounds familiar, kind of like a snake oil salesman.
The nature of the program breeds psychological harm, violence and abuse. I don't have any suggestions, because I don't feel any of it is worth saving. That's my opinion, based on my experience.Everything that people say to you is personal. Whether it is constructive criticism or not will determine whether it cam from and asshole or not.
----Bill Warbis
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http://http://www.springcreeklodgeexperience.blogspot.com | http://http://www.isaccorp.org | http://http://www.teenliberty.org |
http://http://www.tbfight.com | http://http://www.antiwwasp.com | http://http://www.pianofinders.com/es/breakingthesecrecy.htm |[ This Message was edited by: Exit Plan on 2006-04-04 19:56 ]
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On 2006-04-04 12:05:00, Exit Plan wrote:
"So far the pro-wwasps myspace group has about 20-30 members (including one dog).
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Yeah, but if you read the postings, many of those 20 members say they did not have a good experience. They just are not allowed to elaborate, or the moderator will delete their posts and ban them. At best, some are neutral, meaning that they hated WWASP but acknowledge that they made great friendships with their peers.
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I am not sure why the teachers don't actually teach? I guess you could say there is a couple reasons. WWASP will try to tell you it's because kids are coming and going at different times. I am surprised they don't take advantage of telling parents if they don't leave Suzy there she will not get her full credits for completing the quarter.
Doing these workbooks are a cinch. WWASP can tell parents how great Suzy is doing. Suzy is stoked probably because she doesn't even have to try to get straight A's, where as before she did.
It doesn't matter that everyone is different ages. Please, I attended another program in Utah that had only 100 girls and we did just fine. When we combined the boys and girls together we had a couple hundred. It was a much more realistic enviroment then how WWASP does it.
WWASP takes the easy way out because it makes them look good. Not only that but it keeps them in control. They like being in control. I am sure it would be more difficult to control these young kids minds if they had them in a real school enviroment.
As far as the pro-wwasp group goes....it's moderated to the max. If you say anything that's not positive about WWASP you get banned. I was a little pissed about it in the beginning just because they were all over are anti-wwasp groups spewing crap, and we allowed them to stick around. Who cares though, as long as people realize who makes up this group.
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Tell me is it self paced study?
Do you punish kids in a freezing isolation called the hobbit?
Is solitary confinement in a freezing cell torture?
Are the pictures on the brochures an accurate reflection of the facility?
Is mail to the parents read, monitored, or censored? If true that would violate the constitutional rights of residents.
Are residents taught that the program saved their lives?
Are kids put in charge of giving punishments to other kids?
Do you think it is a good practice to have emotionally disturbed kids punishing other kids?
Are kids ever beaten, or are the survivors fabricating their experiences?
Oh, and Chelsea, she's got it so going on! Why does she say the program saved her from death. If she is so well put together she wouldn't need a program.
Why does she view potential pregnancy as a reason to justify torture?
It is such a great thing that her brother is in tranquility bay, getting saved by Pepper Spray Kay.
Chelsea is just dripping with insight. And that self-paced study has Harvard sending out a search party. Possibly the keys to her wild success lie in her natural genius. I am astounded by her sophistication and grasp of intellectual subtilties. I believe we should mandate a WWASP eduction for every congressperson that recieved funds from WWASP coffers. If that legislation was actualized I have a premonition WWASP schools would be shut in a hurry