Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

As a result of this forum I have been able to get in touch with a lot of old friends, create some new memories and have some fun with them. I even had a chance to talk to John Underwood and thank him for all he did for me and so many others. There are many of us out here that appriciate having our lives together and we know that no instiution is perfect. I am sorry that the Seed was not for everyone. Some people move on and deal with life. It was not easy, but at the Seed I learned to stop blaming others.

Merry Christmas to All.

I was wondering when someone would say something like that. I was thinking you all changed your mind about the Seed.

I remember that Ken was an old-timer when I was on my program. I two, hung on every word when he related because of his sincerity and determination to do the best with his life. He has always been one of my favorite role models at the Seed. I missed him when he and his brother moved up north. I will never forget when they came back and he talked about how they shared a job at an airport, I believe. Not only were they living up to the standards that were set for us at the Seed, but dealing with the world on their own, going to college and doing innovative things at their job.

Here's to Ken and all of the other great staff members and all that they did for us.

Re: Penny. She was black and sometimes Art would have her sing "People" at open meetings. She had a beautiful voice. I was really scared of her when I was on my program. I think she came down on some people really hard. I guess they deserved it. She seemed fair. She also had a funny side and a kind side. She came back to a get together not too many years before the Seed closed. She looked great.

I remember Cliff was leading a rap and digressed to tell a story about getting sent to do some shopping and Penny went with him. He said he felt really weird and getting "strange vibes" at the grocery store. He said that suddenly he looked at Penny and she looked at him and he said, "your are black", while at the same time she looked at him and said, "your white". We all laughed like crazy. He said the lesson was that after your are straight superficial shit is not important and in our minds.

It is really funny how we remember some things crystal clear and there are persons and long periods of time that we forget.

Anne could come down on people real hard, but she seemed nice. I was always scared shitless of saying something wrong and having staff come down on me. They never did. I felt I would have broke.

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My 9 year old daughter had another kid ask her if I was her grandfather the other day. WOW. I think I am still young at 53. My mother was 41 when I went into the Seed. Hard to believe.

I know that a lot of people hated those songs at the Seed, but I sang some of them to my daughter at bedtime and in the AM. I remembered that Robert would get into it in 74, "You got to get up every morning with a smile on your face.." My attitude really sucked after being sleep deprived and hearing that song.

However, I still feel that I would be much more messed up if I hadn't gone to the Seed and did all those silly things.

I too beleive that this forum has had a great impact and we all can learn from it. I disagree with some of the perspectives presented here, but I think I listen more to alternative positions on this forum than I do in any other part of my life when others have a different perspective than mine.

In reading through some old posts, I saw how supportive people have been to those in trouble or going through a tough time. Maybe that is something we all learned back then.

"It was the best of times and it was the worst of times"

It appears that some posts from January thru June got deleted. Should I be paranoid that mine got deleted?

Here it is again.

I had just been reading the Seed Forum for a while and when I was going to post something, it went down. There was some discussion of no interest in this forum. I am sure many others will hear about or eventually find this insightful, challenging, conflict-filled place.

I know there is not a lot of activity on this message board lately, but I wanted to share my own personal perspective. Just for me, if for nobody else.

 I felt terrible when I heard about those that came to the Seed that had problems that may have been beyond the Seed' s expertise.  I am thinking particularly of those that were too young to benefit and those that had issues that were not addressed such as abuse or molestation.  I do not want to make excuses, but in some circumstances young people or those with other difficulties were unable to get appropriate help or what they needed from anywhere else in the traditional mental health community.  I was taken to therapists, psychiatrists, a priest (he did not try an exorcism), court staff, etc.. It seems that a lot of people's problems may have been the result of the high standard set at the Seed. True, a high standard was set there, and it was difficult to live up to, but even after being in the Seed for a while, I personally thought that the best I would ever achieve in my life would be to be a full-time "pothead" only and a laborer in a factory.

My life now is truly rich (or am I deluding myself) and I truely know that I would not be where I am if not for the Seed.

For myself, the Seed and Art Barker took someone that was totally hopeless and put me on the path toward happiness.  When I first came to the Seed on State Road 84 in 1974 I had recently read a Psychology Today article about the brainwashing in prison camps.  I initially thought that the Seed was just like them.  Then I began to realize that the goal of the Seed's "brainwashing" was to get me to care about myself, respect myself, have courage in my convictions, etc.. Not the usual topics that brainwashers emphasize. I never felt that the goal was to do anything evil to me. I felt sincere caring from the others there. Yes, personalities got involved since it was a human endeavor and no one is perfect.  So with regard to the definition of brainwashing, it was against my will and it did change my mind from my previous belief system that I could never have changed on my own.  If that system had not been challenged at the level it had, I doubt that I would have ever accomplished anything in my life or be as happy as I am now.

 I once saw a girl come back into the program after graduating and being away from the Seed for a while.  She said that during her first time on the program she just learned to mimic the people at the Seed and never learned to internalize the values, attitudes and behaviors.  She chose to come back after she turned 18 in order to try to make the Seed beliefs a part of her life.  When she related that in the group, I saw several staff members shaking their head in agreement regarding her reasoning.  I never saw any of the negative behavior of staff that others on this message board recall. I will always be grateful that the Seed was in my life.  I appreciate everything that my oldcomers and staff did for me.

I just ran across an old address book from my time at the SR 84 Seed from 74 to 76.  I recall going to sing in the Orange Bowl with Pat P. from New Orleans.  I remember going to the state park on Sunrise and route A1A with a lot of people after I got off of my program.  Among them were Joe K. (who lived off of 84 and had a female cousin in the program), Guido C., Debbie M. (whose parents owned a preschool), Jim L., Laura G., Jerry J., Steve C.(from the Boca area?), Rick ? (from Miami was at TCC)  Orlando ?, Americo ?, and Tim J.. I remember going to TCC with other graduates, stopping after the meeting for ice cream, fishing in the Keys, playing tennis, bowling, movies, etc..  What a great time.

I lived with others Seed guys at Tropic Terrace Apartments.  Nick G. and his wife managed the apartments.  Jim P. also worked there.

Others from the group I remember include Rufus M, Janet C., Brian and Cathy C. (from Michigan and their brother came in later, then his son), Robin H., Marcelo M., Candy R., Camby C., Joe and Alfie S., Lee B, Oren ?, Seth S, Jeff M., Don M., Liz and Joan H., Hughie ?(that used to cut hair), Rose I., Kim L., Rick and Robin C., Maria C., Nestor B., Alan D., Beth F., 2 Carlos’ (one in the apartments in Miami and one off of Federal in N. Ft. Lauderdale) Alice H., Deb D., and Tim F. (Ohio), Delise S. (from Jacksonville) that married Mandy ?, Hank M., Skip ?

Thanks for this site. It has been a good experience for me, but I am truly sorry for what happened to some of the others.


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