Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Anonymous on June 25, 2005, 07:54:00 PM
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IS it legal for the youth minister to kick kids out of the youth group or Band them for being late ?
He says they were hanging out at the store,kissing and smoking.Even if they were doing this, Do you think its going to help by kicking them out?!
:question:
:???:
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Of course its legal. Are you kidding?
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I expect they meant ethical.
Many things that are legal are not ethical - and this is one of those cases.
Sounds to me like the congregation needs to look around for a new youth minister. The youth minister is wrong to react that way and I hope the church pastor tells him so.
Keep in mind, some congregations are extremely legalistic and they do tend to cut people off and shun them if they think they are "wrong" abut most any church held doctrine.
If yours is one of these, you might want to consider looking around for one less like this.
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IS it legal for the youth minister to kick kids out of the youth group or Band them for being late ?
He says they were hanging out at the store,kissing and smoking.Even if they were doing this, Do you think its going to help by kicking them out?!
Its legal, because he is a representative of the church, I would recomend you go to the next church business meeting and appeal the decision to the church, I also recomend you go to the head pastor and apeal it, because he was way out of line.
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Feel that old tyme Christian lovin'.
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Ethicical really depends on the conversations before the banning. If the child proclaims to be a believer, but continues to chose rebellious behavior even after being confronted by one, then more than one brother/sister in Christ, and if the reason the child continues to come to youth is to be disruptive by continuously being late and/or devisive, then church discipline is appropriate.
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oops, should have proofed! Chose should have been choose!
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Am I understanding you correctly - it's OK for a minister or youth minister to kick a child? Is that in any state?
Can you lead me to the laws on this? Which states?
I can tell you one thing - if my kid were part of a Christian youth group and someone laid a hand on him, or a foot for that matter, there would be hell to pay!! (No pun intended.)
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//Ethicical really depends on the conversations before the banning. If the child proclaims to be a believer, but continues to chose rebellious behavior even after being confronted by one, then more than one brother/sister in Christ, and if the reason the child continues to come to youth is to be disruptive by continuously being late and/or devisive, then church discipline is appropriate.//
You have a point - but I would really rather not ever see a kid kicked out of a youth group. They need to try and reach out to these kids - even the disruptive ones. I'd say unless safety was an issue (and here it clearly isn't) then being excluded from such an important youth outreach is not an option. Keep in mind, we are talking about kids here. Its not the same as a seasoned Christian in open defiance of Christ. I feel very confident Jesus wants his wild, young sheep to be cared for - not thrown to the wolves.
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On 2005-06-26 09:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Am I understanding you correctly - it's OK for a minister or youth minister to kick a child? Is that in any state?
Can you lead me to the laws on this? Which states?
I can tell you one thing - if my kid were part of a Christian youth group and someone laid a hand on him, or a foot for that matter, there would be hell to pay!! (No pun intended.)
"
Who said anything about kicking... you need to read more closely.
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We had a kid in our youth group that was rebellious, disruptive, and many thought he was dangerous. He had no problem using foul language and interupting the teaching that was trying to happen. Our youth pastor and pastor met with this kid several times with and without the parents. Finally the parents were told that if he couldn't control himself in youth, then he needed to stay with the parents in church, or at home on youth nights. There is nothing wrong with asking the parents to gain control or stop bringing the kid to youth. When asked why he came, he said only to disrupt and cause problems for his parents. At least that part of him was honest.
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To begin, it is ok, legally not ethicly, for a youth minister to kick out a kid from group, now, if when you say kick out, you literally mean kick out, in physcial terms, then no, that is not ok, a youth leader is to be trusted with kids, and should never EVER, under any circumstances, touch a child.
We had a kid in our youth group that was rebellious, disruptive, and many thought he was dangerous. He had no problem using foul language and interupting the teaching that was trying to happen. Our youth pastor and pastor met with this kid several times with and without the parents. Finally the parents were told that if he couldn't control himself in youth, then he needed to stay with the parents in church, or at home on youth nights. There is nothing wrong with asking the parents to gain control or stop bringing the kid to youth. When asked why he came, he said only to disrupt and cause problems for his parents. At least that part of him was honest.
Now, here is the question, what is rebellious, does he question things? Does he back talk adults? Does he openly disobey? Rebellious is such a hard word to understand, but I believe if he is a threat to others in the youth group. Which is moat likely very hard to assertain, then he sould be removed, yet the child needs to learn about God some where, and I ask, once removed, where does one go? But anyway, I dont say a church that kicks a kid out is evil, but I do question their spirit of grace, mercy, and love.
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Thank yous guys very much.
:wave:
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I would figure that a kid who disrupts church to the point of being told to leave and stay gone is probably reacting against parental insistence that he/she go there.
Timoclea
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You might be right.
IF so, then they got what they wanted, tho its a shame they had to take such a route.
But what if they enjoy the youth group and want to remain part of it; and were booted only b/c some legalistic Pharisee saw them smoking and kissing outside the little store?
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If the church of your choice stinks, there are usually plenty of other churches that would be glad to have your spiritual business.
Many churches would think that the kid who was smoking and smooching would be the kid *most* in need of spiritual support in his life.
I guess it all depends on whether a particular church's purpose is to be a club for the people who think they're already saintly, or to provide spiritual help and support for those who (according to the behavior code of their religion) need to improve.
There's a difference between fellowship and attendance to hear options for better behavior--and to see examples of people who are living it.
But some churches find that beyond their members' capacity at their present level of spiritual growth. If their church is doing *something* to help the members be better people, I prefer not to judge them simply because they aren't managing to do *everything*.
It's a moment to lament that they haven't reached a higher stage in their spiritual growth, pray for them, and find another church.
That's a typically Wiccan response in how we look at our various Circles or Groves, and how we handle our people who are presently lacking in spiritual virtues we wish they had. I don't know how well it works for Christians, in practice.
If a particular Circle or Grove doesn't meet your spiritual needs, and you try and just can't work it out amongst yourselves, you find or make another one and pray for the growth of the people you have to leave to their own paths.
To provide that individualized support, our equivalent of churches tend to be small and have minimal infrastructure and budgets.
I can only speak from what I know.
Timoclea