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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Our son's way of "helping" was to point out what percentage of kids got to go home and say, "Dude. You're going to a program!"

I am not going to discuss my son's issues and therapy on this forum. I will ask him if he would be willing to post, but he is out of the country right now.  No offense, but he simply isn't interested in these issues.  It just isn't something he even thinks about. He spent two years at a regular prep boarding school and is now in college. All of this has faded out of range.

I can confirm that he was one of the most resistant kids they had seen. Remember-he almost killed the escorts and resisted all the Carbrook therapy.  At home, when he went to a psychiatrist to be evaluated, he insulted the guy and stole the sign from his door.

He figured out after a few weeks at wilderness that his actions at home weren't working for him or anyone else and that he needed a "time out".   2N has a waiting list much of the time, so there was no need to convince us or him that he needed to be there.  

Sorry- but I do believe in consequences and some coercion. I always have- it's part of life- but I was not good at enforcing consequences.   I wanted to protect him and keep him happy, and it wasn't the right thing.

Anne- I talked to my son about all this last week.  I am a lawyer and I am good at being objective.  I have no interest in defending programs per se-  I just want to provide input here.  I have never received any money (in fact, I think Carlbrook would have paid me to NOT tell anyone my son had been there) for a referral.  
I am not putting my spin on anything.  I am holding back a little here because it is a public forum and I have been burned before.

I feel that you are doing yourselves a disservice if you really want to reach parents.  You are wrong in saying that every aspect of every program is bad and abusive.  There are good parts to some programs.  Perhaps the bad outweighs.  That is a legitimate belief. i am giving you factual information and the opinions of myself and my son.  Also, I have talked to perhaps  30 kids who have been to 2N.  No one had anything but praise for that particular program. These are kids who had different feelings about their next programs- some loved C-brook and some hated it (as well as non-Carlbrook programs).  ALL felt that they benefitted from Second Nature.

If you want to help parents and get rid of bad programs, you have to take a close look at what the good parts are and figure out how those tools can be used in a different setting.  I am trying to give you this information.  My son is an exception in many ways- I realize that.  He was not a typical teen and had some unique talents and issues.  

I am not an adversary to you.  I'm really not.  It is very frustrating for me to post here, and I am wondering why I am doing it.  I much prefer the one on one dialogue which I have had with psy and others.  I feel that there is less room for misinterpretation that way.

Anne, if you want to use what I am saying to prove the point that every aspect of wilderness and TBS is bad, go for it.  I don't think that is your best "play" though.  I am willing to be a resource and answer questions fairly and accurately.  I have NO need to look at anything through a filter.  My son is 20 years old and in college.  I don't have a horse in the race.

This is a Carlbrook thread, not a Second Nature thread.  
I was posting because I was asked for some information.  I tried to give it and my purpose is not to argue and defend.  I simply am not going to do that here.  I will be glad to answer PMs if you want more detail about my son's situation or the program.  It is impossible to convey the full nature of the experience to someone who has not been to this particular program or met these therapists (this re: Second Nature).  I can assure you that my son is not holding anything back and even at one point asked me if I would lend money to the single mother of one of his Dallas friends so that the boy could go to 2N.  

1.  There is no affiliation between Carbrook, 2N and any escort service.  2N sends a few kids to Carlbrook (C-brook is very selective about who they accept and most kids don't fit the profile) but more to other programs or RTCs.  Carlbrook does send some kids BACK to 2N, but usually Georgia or some of the other wilderness programs in the SE closer to C-brook.  The escorts did not work at 2N.

2.  2N can work with a variety of issues because there are a number of different groups and therapists.  The group you are in is not a random assignment.

3. The test report on my son drew no conclusion about programs and did not mention any. It was a very professional assessment and we have been told by several unrelated medical and mental health professionals that it is one of the most comprehensive, well-written reports they have ever seen.

4.  I did not say the whole point of wilderness was to take away privileges and make the kid appreciate what he had at home.  That is incorrect.  The strength of wilderness is that the distractions of the home environment (music, friends, drugs etc., family, cars) are removed.  It is just the kids, nature and the therapists.  My son came away from there wanting to do a long solo camping trip.  They do have to earn privileges (eating utensils etc) by fulfilling requirements. I am not going to go into public detail about my son working with the difficult boy, but it was effective for both kids.



5. Impact letters-  I guess you had to be there.  It worked.  The kids did not feel coerced.  They weren't reading these in church or at school.  They were reading them to a group of peers with whom they were establishing a bond.  The parents were helped with the letters- they were not filled with accusations and blame.   They were factual and effective.  The kids replies to parents were not censored (I assure you of that- our first letter from son read, "Do not believe anything the therapist Devan tells you. They just want to keep kids here long so they can make money.")  

6. Solos- lots of safety precautions- staff checked on the kids and brought them food.  They were not sent out on solo until they were willing and ready.  It was something the kids WANTED to do.

7.  2N was not at all based on humiliation or breaking down.  It is based on building up self esteem.

Niles-   You aren't going to like this, but my son deserved to lose all those things at that particular time.  He agrees with that.  He lost the right to have them.  That's what a "consequence" is all about.  Wilderness was a consequence as well as a therapeutic opportunity.

This was 3 1/2 years ago.  I will write tomorrow what I can remember about the day to day structure of the program.  I know the head therapist was in the field with the group two days a week.  The support (field) staff was good-  no, they did not have advanced degrees, but my son thought most of them were pretty good.  They had pretty basic food, but it was varied.  The groups were single sex.  They hiked pretty far each day but had some days off from hiking.  They learned a lot about the flora and fauna of the region and the stars etc.  They had phases they had to work through.  They were required to write a letter home every week which got faxed to us.  They had to read their impact letters that we (parents) wrote out loud to the group.  These were very telling because the story thekid had presented to the group was quite a bit different than what the parents revealed in the letter.  Staff was in constant touch with the head therapist throughout the week for updates and changes to the kid's program and assignments.  They did several solos.  I think my son did a 2 or 3 day solo during his second stint.  He liked it.  He read a lot and wrote a lot.  They could have cameras and he took pictures.  He was in a group with some pretty bad kids (some with real social problems) because of the thing with the escorts and some of them really tested his tolerance level.  Working with one of them actually became one of his assignments.  We didn't get a civil letter for about a month or 6 weeks.  We spent a couple hours a week on the phone with the therapists.  We could call the field office for info at any time.  They were good with necessary meds (asthma, Advil etc).   A PhD psychologist administered a battery of clinical tests out in the field and wrote a report which was extremely comprehensive.  
During the last week we had a couple of phone conversations with our son on the satellite phone.  He was not told when he was leaving, but he had to agree to the next placement before he could leave.  We went for his transition and spent the night in the field with him and the other kids/parents who were leaving.  We did some therapy sessions both in group and alone with our son and the therapist and our son cooked us dinner at our campsite.  
That's all for now.

Second Nature- Utah.

Carlbrook has the appearance of a nice southern prep school. The boys wear ties to class.  The academics are fairly strong- the best of any TBS. The kids go on to good colleges. The academic faculty tends to think the emotional growth part is bs.  It was a teacher who mentored my son and encouraged him to try to get out of Carlbrook and go to a regular prep boarding school.  There are some fields for sports and a basketball court and a decent weight room.  There is now a new dining hall which is supposed to be nice.  The days are structured like a regular school, but with group therapy in the afternoon. (not every day).  There is some community service work. The commons building is really nice- there is an art room and a lot of kids have musical instruments.  
There are boys and girls and they do interact.  They are not permitted to have romantic relationships, but they do.  If someone thinks a couple is getting too close, they get put on bans with each other and are not allowed to speak.
It is the closest thing to a regular boarding school I could find.  It wasn't close enough for my son- no computer, no cell phone, too much therapy and no real sports.