Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: shaggys on October 01, 2010, 06:55:08 PM
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I saw many terrible abuses while incarcerated at Straight inc in the 80's. It is my understanding that many of these same practices still exist in one form or another in programs that are currently operating. I want to invite victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate. Apparently there are people who don't believe abuse happens in these places. Feel free to tell them about it here.
Me first. While incarcerated at Straight inc I saw children denied the privlege of sleeping. Newcomers would be kept awake for days on end sometimes to break them down mentally and physically. Just one of many many abuses I witnessed firsthand while I was there.
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The 1980's was a long time ago. The program you said you were at has been closed a long time. A relic in an industry that has grown and changed, improved and matured. I would share my experience of abuse, or me witnessing it, but I never experienced or witnessed abuse in any way, shape, or form. I was in the program in the decade of the 2000's, so perhaps this is evidence that in the prior two decades programs had changed, and improved. Also when I discuss being at the program with people, nobody uses the term incarcerate, or ever refers to abuse. It is my understanding that most programs today are safe, and that is a great example of why most of the posters here claiming they were abused are from programs in the 1970's and 1980's.
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I saw many kids denied proper food which lead to symptoms of malnutrition. It is my understanding that food deprivation is still a tactic used by abusive programs today. Seems things haven't really changed that much.
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1980:
Its a long time ago, no internet, no air bags, Ronald Reagan was still a Governor, Madonna was 22 years old. Imagine someone talking to you in 1980 and telling you how things were 30 years ago in 1950. You would say “Man you are old” STFU, The world has changed, Dude. Black people could not even vote then.
No offense Shaggys, its good that we all share our experiences but we should really be looking at the way programs are operating today. Not 30 or 60 years ago. Anne Boney was talking about kids having to eat rotten food. Today they provide several menus depending on if you are Vegan, Vegetarian, Wheat allergies etc. the food is good. The staff is better trained, etc.
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If what you say is true Whooter, then how do you explain situations like the Aaron Bacon tragedy?
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Today they provide several menus depending on if you are Vegan, Vegetarian, Wheat allergies etc. the food is good.
This is true, we were given the option of having a vegetarian meal. We got large portions and good food, the only complain I ever heard was from girls who were concerned they were gaining weight with all the good, and plentiful food that was served.
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The 1980's was a long time ago. The program you said you were at has been closed a long time. A relic in an industry that has grown and changed, improved and matured.
I keep seeing you and Whooter saying that, but I'm astounded at the similarities to Straight of the kids who are posting about fairly recent incarceration in one program or another.
The basics haven't changed from what I keep hearing. They've just changed their advertising, possibly using a PR firm or marketer to make it seem like it's not like it used to be. That's what all those glossy brochures are about.
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If what you say is true Whooter, then how do you explain situations like the Aaron Bacon tragedy?
Its an event, Shaggys. How do you explain the Columbine incident? Does that represent all of public schools?
If there were alot of kids dying in wilderness each year then I would agree with you. But there are not and we cannot take one event and hold it up as a standard or as something we should expect.
The industry has come a long way.
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I was in a program in the 2000s, I didn't see any rotten food, or abuse going on. I didn't see anything that is described here by the old time straight survivors going on in the program I went to. Even though it has earned its own forum here, I saw nothing that could be called abuse by anyone's definition. We were fed well, treated well and most kids there were grateful they had the opportunity to change and win back their family's trust. Instead of trying to portray your experience 30 years ago as comparable to today, you should listen to people like me who have been in the program relatively recently. Or Whooter who is the parent of a child in the program a lot more recently than you have been, you might learn something.
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The 1980's was a long time ago. The program you said you were at has been closed a long time. A relic in an industry that has grown and changed, improved and matured.
I keep seeing you and Whooter saying that, but I'm astounded at the similarities to Straight of the kids who are posting about fairly recent incarceration in one program or another.
The basics haven't changed from what I keep hearing. They've just changed their advertising, possibly using a PR firm or marketer to make it seem like it's not like it used to be. That's what all those glossy brochures are about.
But give credit where it is due, Anne. You dont read about kids being forced to eat food which is rotting in todays programs. I have mentioned the dietary menus they have today. Why not recognize the advances. Did kids get unmonitored phone calls in straight? Go white water rafting?
I am sure there are similarities, but we need to recognize the differences also.
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Back on topic, there are still many problems with abusive restraints. This is commonplace in wilderness camps like Eckerd and Three Springs.
But the programs are improving. Maybe not fast enough for most people, but they are moving in the right direction. Listen to the stories of the people from 1980 with the rotting food, cult like recruiting of entire families and neighbors. Being driven around to sleep in other peoples homes. Flapping their arms all day, wrapped up in duct tape and locked in cages at night and the lack of education.
The programs today are dramatically different. Yes they are similar, like todays cars are similar to the model "T". But we should look at how far they have come and recognize they are heading in the right direction.
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The topic is about programs abusing children, nothing else. Your sarcasm will not be tolerated in this thread by anyone. You can start your own thread about improvements in programs. If you fail to comply with the laws you'll face the consequences.
Joel, easy does it, One day at a time, pal. Programs have abused and helped. There are pieces to every pie.
Thanks
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The 1980's was a long time ago. The program you said you were at has been closed a long time. A relic in an industry that has grown and changed, improved and matured.
I keep seeing you and Whooter saying that, but I'm astounded at the similarities to Straight of the kids who are posting about fairly recent incarceration in one program or another.
The basics haven't changed from what I keep hearing. They've just changed their advertising, possibly using a PR firm or marketer to make it seem like it's not like it used to be. That's what all those glossy brochures are about.
But give credit where it is due, Anne. You dont read about kids being forced to eat food which is rotting in todays programs.
Yes I do.
I have mentioned the dietary menus they have today. Why not recognize the advances. Did kids get unmonitored phone calls in straight? Go white water rafting?
No, there were no unmonitored phone calls in Straight......just as I've read here and other websites, recently.
I am sure there are similarities, but we need to recognize the differences also.
I'm seeing quite a few similarities. Yes, there are some differences, but they're superficial. The few important differences are basically the same, i.e. LGATs and tough 'love'. Edited to add: That's what bothers me when I'm reading stories from other programs that could be written by me about Straight.
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If anything I tend to believe there are more kids abused by programs today than there were back in the 80s.
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But give credit where it is due, Anne. You dont read about kids being forced to eat food which is rotting in todays programs.
Yes I do.
Which program? I can tell you first hand several programs which do not. Academy at Swift River, Aspen Ranch, SUWS etc. These place serve healthy food. So we know for sure that improvements have occurred in the industry.
No, there were no unmonitored phone calls in Straight......just as I've read here and other websites, recently.
At ASR there are unmonitored phone calls, so we know that some programs have improved since straight, but maybe others still need to grow in that area.
I am sure there are similarities, but we need to recognize the differences also.
I'm seeing quite a few similarities. Yes, there are some differences, but they're superficial. The few important differences are basically the same, i.e. LGATs and tough 'love'. Edited to add: That's what bothers me when I'm reading stories from other programs that could be written by me about Straight.
So you consider unmonitored phone calls and healthy food superficial? Then why do you keep saying you were given rotten food and denied phone access if you feel they are not important?
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When I was in Straight inc I saw children forced to sleep in closets. Often times these were tiny apartment-style closets so the person would have to try to sleep sitting up cause there was not room to stretch out. Very uncomfortable and demeaning. This punishment led to further physical and mental exhaustion. It is my understanding that similar punishments are occuring in programs today.
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No phone access and rotten food were easily identifiable signs of how little the programs actually cared about those children. Not everyone can understand how LGAT treatment can be harmful, but everyone understands rotten food. This is palpable, verifiable abuse, which is a serious threat to their bottom line. I think the programs have now gotten smart enough to not leave themselves vulnerable in this area. They now limit their abuse to the variety that you have to experience, or be a psychologist, to understand. And it took me at least 20 years to be able to adequately put into words how abusive I felt this treatment was. So when todays youth finally find their voices, will their experiences be considered invalid?
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But back on the topic, when I was in LIFE it seemed like they would use any means available to break down the child's will. The foster home where they housed me had lots of animals, dogs, cats and horses. For some reason, I was the only person in the house who got bit by fleas. Hundreds of flea bites, I was obviously unusually sensitive to them for some reason. One might think that the program would have moved me to another house, one with no animals. Instead, they kept me in that house for months. I broke out in hives from stress, which they blamed on laundry detergent. They told us not to pop the pimples we all had on our faces from lack of sunlight and they would get huge and painful. They told us that popping pimples could give us brain damage, or kill us. I am not kidding. And of course the four point restraint on the benches and the five point restraint on the floor, both administered by other teens, are notoriously dangerous. One night I refused to write a "moral inventory", nothing to write, same thing happens every day. My punishment was no evening meal, which I accepted a little too easily I guess because my (fully grown adult) oldcomer decided that my shower that night would be ice cold. I refused to take a shower so he just picked me up in my underwear and threw me into the cold shower. That oldcomer was from El Paso, Texas. I think he later helped "Dr." Newton set up "Kids of El Paso". I'm sure he was one of the resident goons there too.
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I know during my incarceration at HLA whenever a parent or ed con day would come around the menu would suddenly drastically improve. When there weren't visitors rotten food was routine. Maybe Whooter John is basing his comments on his limited time actually spent visiting a program. All totaled it probably only comes out to a few days.
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All of that sounds like it was right out of the seed. No phone calls whatsoever. Lived for months on stale PB&J sandwiches. No tv (not even the news).No reading anything at all.When you got back to you oldcommers house at night, it was more "rapping",and if you noddedoff you got a swat upside of your noggin.12 hours a day and if you were lucky, you'd get 1 trip to the bathroom a day.You had to learn how to hold it. I saw one kid piss his pants after asking over and over again to use the bathroom. After he pissed himself,instead of getting him cleaned up, they stood him up in group, yelled and screamed at him for trying to get attention. I think that one way stuff like that could not happen today, would be to do as they do in jail. Everything is video recorded 24/7 no blind spots anywhere. In the old days of the seed and straight conditions varied from oldcommer to oldcommer. Remeber , you didn't live at the program 24 hours a day. Only 12. Some people had it easier than others. Some foster houses were living hell. I didn't last at home long enuogh at home to get my very own newcommer,(I had enough,and I split). But I know my parents would have spoilled them. At least they would have eatten better.These programs of yesterday and today have one thing in common, the bottom line. Spend as little as possible.
And it will always be the kids who suffer for it.
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I has not been in a program in the 1980's. I was not in one yesterday.
I guess that they have changed to some extend due to the existense of the Internet. In the old days they could fly under the radar even if they were nationwide because the graduates could not find eachother. How many have shared their most valuable teenage years with a peer group only to be shipped home without notice and without access to an aftercare group with knowledge of what is needed when graduates are meeting the real world again? Who could they reflect their experiences with? How were they supposed to see the big picture if that was the goal at all? It did include a higher risk of people reversing back into the same problems they faced before the program and with the extra risk of having to battle PTSD also. Was there an increased suicide risk? Yes, of course.
Today it is different. The program can deny the teenagers to name their hometown, but once they are home they can find some from their peer group in seconds on various community networks. Unanswered questions can be answered.
For the program the existence of the Internet means increased challenges. Parents who seek residential options can read what former participants write. In some cases they can find critical information on the Internet and of course they can find the Fornits wiki. In the old days it was different. It was shameful to have troubled teenagers and the newly introduced 3-strike laws, the new-started war against drugs and 21 year rule in relationship with alcohol meant fear among parents. The programs operated by mouth-to-mouth method combined with referral fees if you as parent could convince someone in your family or town that a program was good for their so-called troubled teenager.
They have to use a lot of ressources to defend their program or ignore it and continue with a lower enrollment . Look at a program like the Family Foundation School. They have started a blog defending their program. They acknowledge that their program was not quiet developed in the right way when they conducted a full scale test over a ten year or more period. Of course they state that they now are so much better. It is a question whether the parents believe them, but they are no longer talking of a second campus so maybe they have a long way to go before there are so many graduates out there that the general criticism die out.
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Admins please ask Whooter to stop derailing this thread with his BS. I have never asked for any consideration here whatsoever but this shit is getting crazy. This individual is as skilled a liar and manipulator as you will ever find anywhere. He is being allowed to trash this forum at will and I do not appreciate it. The topic here has been clearly stated. We are discussing abuse in treatment programs. I would expect the posts to be on topic or get deleted. thank you.
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I know during my incarceration at HLA whenever a parent or ed con day would come around the menu would suddenly drastically improve. When there weren't visitors rotten food was routine. Maybe Whooter John is basing his comments on his limited time actually spent visiting a program. All totaled it probably only comes out to a few days.
Robert you are sadly mistaken or misspoken, I am sorry but this is the bottom line, I personally know folks that went through the program from many different years and that was never one of there problems. Like I said you have someone right here who knows HLA very well from a periphery position.
Please keep to the facts of abuse, HLA has enough of them without any need of embellishment.
HLA, had plenty of problems, especially with Buchi.
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Actually I thought I was posting in the "Public school abuse thread" and responding to Joel who I thought was posting off topic (It turns out it was me) .... my apologies. I will delete my post.
Just for future reference if there is a rule violation, psy indicated that you can use the reporting process or email him directly instead of derailing a thread. Joel and Shaggys there is no need to muck up the thread with warnings and/or starting a fight.
I am trying to live by and adjust to the new rules and I made a mistake. Sorry.
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There is a kid age 17 that comes in my business here agood bit. I have got to know him pretty well now. Lets call him Chip. About a year ago Chip got into a bad crowd at school. Started puffin some weed with his baseball buddies and being rebellious with his parents. Pretty mild stuff really. He disapeared for about 6 months and showed back up saying he had attended a "survival program". He is now convinced that he is a drug addict and is currently relapsing. This kid Did Not have an addiction issue before he went away but he sure believes he has one now. I think it is abusive to brainwash a young person into believeing that they are a lifelong drug addict. It is very abusive.
I am going to find out which one of these "survival schools" Chip got sent to. I will keep you updated.
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There is a kid age 17 that comes in my business here agood bit. I have got to know him pretty well now. Lets call him Chip. About a year ago Chip got into a bad crowd at school. Started puffin some weed with his baseball buddies and being rebellious with his parents. Pretty mild stuff really. He disapeared for about 6 months and showed back up saying he had attended a "survival program". He is now convinced that he is a drug addict and is currently relapsing. This kid Did Not have an addiction issue before he went away but he sure believes he has one now. I think it is abusive to brainwash a young person into believeing that they are a lifelong drug addict. It is very abusive.
I am going to find out which one of these "survival schools" Chip got sent to. I will keep you updated.
Geesh, Shaggys, How do you know that this kid underwent brainwashing? Do you know what it takes to be truly brainwashed? Did this boy undergo complete isolation with a complete dependency on one person who controlled his every action for 6 months? Did he live in complete fear during this time? Was his identity completely broken down to the point that he wasnt himself anymore and was replaced with a new identity?
It could be that these survival people are so down to earth that they believe a person should not be a slave to anything except surviving and utilizing only what a person truly needs. He lived in a bubble for 6 months and now he wants to smoke pot again. He looked up to these guys who taught him things like he doesnt need to put anything in his body except nutrition to survive. They may have told him he should not become addictive to donuts, drugs and fast-food.
He is just a kid. They tend to take things very seriously sometimes. Just a thought.
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There is a kid age 17 that comes in my business here agood bit. I have got to know him pretty well now. Lets call him Chip. About a year ago Chip got into a bad crowd at school. Started puffin some weed with his baseball buddies and being rebellious with his parents. Pretty mild stuff really. He disapeared for about 6 months and showed back up saying he had attended a "survival program". He is now convinced that he is a drug addict and is currently relapsing. This kid Did Not have an addiction issue before he went away but he sure believes he has one now. I think it is abusive to brainwash a young person into believeing that they are a lifelong drug addict. It is very abusive.
I am going to find out which one of these "survival schools" Chip got sent to. I will keep you updated.
I would think we would need a whole lot more information then "Chip" coming into your place where you work and you having a psuedo relationship with him, then making a analysis of whether Chip has a problem and if he needed treatment.
No one is a life long drug addict (your words) he may have been told he had a problem with drugs. Being sent away for six months to learn about the bad affects of drugs is not exactly abuse. IMO
Six month program is also not abuse...if you compare to how long we went.
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When i was in Straight inc kids were confronted with verbal abuse of the harshest stuff imaginable. These confrontations would sometimes continue for hours. Inmates were forced to participate in the verbal assaults of other inmates. This activity was always directed by staff members. It is my understanding that these same methods are still being used in many teen treatment centers today.
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When i was in Straight inc kids were confronted with verbal abuse of the harshest stuff imaginable. These confrontations would sometimes continue for hours. Inmates were forced to participate in the verbal assaults of other inmates. This activity was always directed by staff members. It is my understanding that these same methods are still being used in many teen treatment centers today.
That is terrible, Shaggys, I couldn't imagine that happening today. There are so many rules against bullying now and the programs of today are much more transparent and even allow reporters and research analysts to spend months documenting the process kids go through inside your typical program. I can see why many posters here from the 1980's have a negative view on programs.
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That is terrible, Shaggys, I couldn't imagine that happening today. There are so many rules against bullying now and the programs of today are much more transparent and even allow reporters and research analysts to spend months documenting the process kids go through inside your typical program. I can see why many posters here from the 1980's have a negative view on programs
It's the same reason posters from the 90's and 2000's have the same view of the program. It's not negative John, it's honest. Nothing has changed, the same stuff happens. These places are all abusive. You only highlight your ignorance by avoiding the truth on these things you make money off of. You only further highlight that people who work in this industry like yourself don't care about how much kids are abused, just so long as they show up with a check.
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When i was in Straight inc kids were confronted with verbal abuse of the harshest stuff imaginable. These confrontations would sometimes continue for hours. Inmates were forced to participate in the verbal assaults of other inmates. This activity was always directed by staff members. It is my understanding that these same methods are still being used in many teen treatment centers today.
That is terrible, Shaggys, I couldn't imagine that happening today. There are so many rules against bullying now and the programs of today are much more transparent and even allow reporters and research analysts to spend months documenting the process kids go through inside your typical program. I can see why many posters here from the 1980's have a negative view on programs.
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The program I was in was marketed as a "kinder, gentler" version of Straight Inc. As was Pathway and Kids Helping Kids. We now know that there was no appreciable difference in the treatment methodology. This is an old lie that this industry has been telling for a long time. The only way to change someones behavior without their consent is by force or by completely controlling their information, both of which are inhumane and unethical.
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That is terrible, Shaggys, I couldn't imagine that happening today. There are so many rules against bullying now and the programs of today are much more transparent and even allow reporters and research analysts to spend months documenting the process kids go through inside your typical program. I can see why many posters here from the 1980's have a negative view on programs
It's the same reason posters from the 90's and 2000's have the same view of the program. It's not negative John, it's honest. Nothing has changed, the same stuff happens. These places are all abusive. You only highlight your ignorance by avoiding the truth on these things you make money off of. You only further highlight that people who work in this industry like yourself don't care about how much kids are abused, just so long as they show up with a check.
That is not true at all Robert, posters have not flocked here to tell you the programs of the 2000's have not changed. It has been a minuscule amount of people who have come here to share in comparison to the amount of people who have gone through these programs.
Yes there have been abuses from ill-trained and rouge staff members and this is unacceptable but to say it is just like it has always been is another fabrication on your part.
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That is not true at all Robert, posters have not flocked here to tell you the programs of the 2000's have not changed. It has been a minuscule amount of people who have come here to share in comparison to the amount of people who have gone through these programs.
Yes there have been abuses from ill-trained and rouge staff members and this is unacceptable but to say it is just like it has always been is another fabrication on your part.
Oh Danny, are you under some misguided impression that fornits is the only venue for abuse survivors to communicate? Your ignorance once again shines through. Even if it were the only venue the reports we have coming in are strikingly similar to the reports given from earlier decades. Thus proving that these programs have not changed.
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The program I was in was marketed as a "kinder, gentler" version of Straight Inc. As was Pathway and Kids Helping Kids. We now know that there was no appreciable difference in the treatment methodology. This is an old lie that this industry has been telling for a long time. The only way to change someones behavior without their consent is by force or by completely controlling their information, both of which are inhumane and unethical.
Well I am not sure I completely agree with you. You can take a child and expose them to therapy against their will with the hope they will see the benefit in it and utilize it to their advantage. Maybe they will connect with their therapist and start to look forward to hie or her visits
Kids can be successfully forced to change their behavior in the hopes that they adopt it as a new routine. At first they may follow the new behavior out of fear of being punished but after awhile (when they do it long enough) it just becomes part of their makeup or routine. This is not inhumane or unethical at all. It is a natural process that we all go through.
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Well I am not sure I completely agree with you. You can take a child and expose them to therapy against their will with the hope they will see the benefit in it and utilize it to their advantage. Maybe they will connect with their therapist and start to look forward to hie or her visits
Kids can be successfully forced to change their behavior in the hopes that they adopt it as a new routine. At first they may follow the new behavior out of fear of being punished but after awhile (when they do it long enough) it just becomes part of their makeup or routine. This is not inhumane or unethical at all. It is a natural process that we all go through
We all go through coercive ineffective therapy that does not work? Please, detail your experience for us. After that please cite a source that verifies not only the abusive theraputic model that programs use is effective, but that when it's is forced it can still work. I'll be waiting.
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We all go through coercive ineffective therapy that does not work?
I read back and didnt see this mentioned. I was responding to this statement:
The only way to change someones behavior without their consent is by force or by completely controlling their information, both of which are inhumane and unethical.
My post above outlines my argument that changing a childs' behavior without his/her consent can be done without the use of inhumane and unethical means.
For example take a child who is told he must start seeing a therapist. The child may resist at first but after a few sessions the child may connect with his/her therapist and actually enjoy and find benefit from therapy.
Take a child who is forced to attend school and sit in a class room and read. He may eventually find an interest or subject he likes, He may grow accustomed to the routine and start to attend school without being asked.
Take a child who is forced to make his bed each day bedfor he/she can leave their room in the morning. After several weeks the child may become accustomed to making his/her bed and do it automatically.
These same events can be accomplished utilizing unethical or inhumane methods. But they don't have to be, they can be accomplished as a natural progression of growing up and learning to adapt to certain behaviors. Just because they are forced upon the child doesn't make it inhumane or unethical.
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My apologies for the confusion. I was reponding to this comment in particular:
You can take a child and expose them to therapy against their will with the hope they will see the benefit in it and utilize it to their advantage.
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Whooter, we're not talking about making beds. These kids are SENT AWAY for years. All they know is that their parents have rejected them. And if they want their parents to accept them again they have to make themselves perfect in their parents eyes. How can you call this ethical?
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Whooter, we're not talking about making beds. These kids are SENT AWAY for years. All they know is that their parents have rejected them. And if they want their parents to accept them again they have to make themselves perfect in their parents eyes. How can you call this ethical?
Again , it all starts at home. WE NEED BETTER PARENTS. THAT'S HOW YOU GET BETTER KIDS!
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Again , it all starts at home. WE NEED BETTER PARENTS. THAT'S HOW YOU GET BETTER KIDS!
:tup:
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That is not true at all Robert, posters have not flocked here to tell you the programs of the 2000's have not changed. It has been a minuscule amount of people who have come here to share in comparison to the amount of people who have gone through these programs.
Yes there have been abuses from ill-trained and rouge staff members and this is unacceptable but to say it is just like it has always been is another fabrication on your part.
Oh Danny, are you under some misguided impression that fornits is the only venue for abuse survivors to communicate? Your ignorance once again shines through. Even if it were the only venue the reports we have coming in are strikingly similar to the reports given from earlier decades. Thus proving that these programs have not changed.
No Robert, you are wrong again. Of course everyone knows fornits does not stand alone, there are many venues but they are still minuscule in comparison to the population of children that went through programs recently. They are not reporting the same abuses or complaints of years gone by.
Please this is what I have been saying all along, post the proper facts don't embellish.
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Embellish what Danny? Be specific son, what exactly are you asking?
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Embellish what Danny? Be specific son, what exactly are you asking?
OK. How about 80% of what you write. Robert your acting like this is a new request most folks who enter into conversations with you end up asking you to stop embellishing.
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Embellishing what Danny? Youv'e got to be specific son. Post up a specific comment that I've made that you believe is an embellishment. Otherwise there isn't much to talk about and you're just bloviating.
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Whooter, we're not talking about making beds. These kids are SENT AWAY for years. All they know is that their parents have rejected them. And if they want their parents to accept them again they have to make themselves perfect in their parents eyes. How can you call this ethical?
Thats an entirely different question, Shadyacres. But I was responding to this:
The only way to change someones behavior without their consent is by force or by completely controlling their information, both of which are inhumane and unethical.
I felt I should address the inaccuracies as I saw them and post examples to support my thoughts.
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Whooter, we're not talking about making beds. These kids are SENT AWAY for years. All they know is that their parents have rejected them. And if they want their parents to accept them again they have to make themselves perfect in their parents eyes. How can you call this ethical?
Thats an entirely different question, Shadyacres. But I was responding to this:
The only way to change someones behavior without their consent is by force or by completely controlling their information, both of which are inhumane and unethical.
I felt I should address the inaccuracies as I saw them and post examples to support my thoughts.
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Yet that in essence is the program model you readily support from these programs.
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Embellishing what Danny? Youv'e got to be specific son. Post up a specific comment that I've made that you believe is an embellishment. Otherwise there isn't much to talk about and you're just bloviating.
Really, I'm sorry, I was under the impression this was your mastery, bloviating. Robert, I am very good at this game you like to play. Keep spinning.
I will be on your ass if you decide to blow wind. Till then, see ya.
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To get back on topic here...
I've gone into detail about my experiences in another thread. I attended Three Springs in 1997 and 1998.
But here is a quick list of the abuses that were most obviously against the law:
* Sexual abuse. My roommate was sexually abused by a staff member. I would pretend to be asleep when he would come in at night. Another girl was sexually abused by another staff member.
* Physical abuse. Kids were beaten, usually during the "restraint" process, since the physicality of the restraint worked well for covering it up as accidental. I was beaten as a direct consequence for reporting abuse, in an incident involving two staff members and one peer.
* Deprivation of food. Food at the group home was severely rationed, and we ran out on many occasions, with no possibility of getting other food until the next week. (Not even stale peanut butter sandwiches.)
For a more thorough list, here are a list of violations against the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child committed by Three Springs. (The full document can be found at http://http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/crc.htm.)
Article 9, Statement 3: States Parties shall respect the right of the child who is separated from one or both parents to maintain personal relations and direct contact with both parents on a regular basis, except if it is contrary to the child's best interests.
I was not permitted to speak to either of my parents upon admission to Three Springs. It was not in my best interests to have contact with my father other than by letter, but contact with my mother remained restricted.
Article 13, Statement 1: The child shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of the child's choice.
Noncom/bans is an infringement on this right. Freedom of expression is a right, freedom of choosing one’s own library books is a right, access to writing materials is a right: all of which were broken.
Article 14, Statement 1: States Parties shall respect the right of the child to freedom of thought, conscience and religion.
The only religion we had access to was monthly visits by a local church, who would lead worship songs. Our lack of freedom of thought has been discussed elsewhere on Fornits with more eloquence than I have on the subject.
Article 15, Statement 1: States Parties recognize the rights of the child to freedom of association and to freedom of peaceful assembly.
Noncom, again, violates this right.
Article 16, Statement 1 and 2: No child shall be subjected to arbitrary or unlawful interference with his or her privacy, family, or correspondence, nor to unlawful attacks on his or her honour and reputation. The child has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
Censorship of letters, hanging up the phone when “inappropriate/manipulative” things were said on the telephone, and being watched in the shower are all violations of this right.
Article 19, Statement 1: States Parties shall take all appropriate legislative, administrative, social and educational measures to protect the child from all forms of physical or mental violence, injury or abuse, neglect or negligent treatment, maltreatment or exploitation, including sexual abuse, while in the care of parent(s), legal guardian(s) or any other person who has the care of the child.
No matter how many times the staff supervisor was reported as physically abusing children, he was never suspended or fired. The lack of food in the group home was ongoing.
Article 20, Statement 1: A child temporarily or permanently deprived of his or her family environment, or in whose own best interests cannot be allowed to remain in that environment, shall be entitled to special protection and assistance provided by the State.
Because children who are no longer with their parents are considered a specially protected group, there should be more, not less, regulation of the institutions that house them. The lack of ability to report abuse without consequence violated this right.
Article 24, Statement 1: States Parties recognize the right of the child to the enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of health and to facilities for the treatment of illness and rehabilitation of health. States Parties shall strive to ensure that no child is deprived of his or her right of access to such health care services.
We did not have regular health care. Another girl who attended Three Springs with me needed an operation but did not receive it. She continues to suffer consequences of that medical neglect.
Article 25: States Parties recognize the right of a child who has been placed by the competent authorities for the purposes of care, protection or treatment of his or her physical or mental health, to a periodic review of the treatment provided to the child and all other circumstances relevant to his or her placement.
Some of the kids placed at Three Springs had been there for years without treatment review by an outside authority. I did not have contact with my social worker or lawyer even once during my time at Three Springs.
Article 27, Statement 1: States Parties recognize the right of every child to a standard of living adequate for the child's physical, mental, spiritual, moral and social development.
Lack of nutrition, physical and sexual abuse, little to no education, all violate this right.
Article 31, Statement 1: States Parties recognize the right of the child to rest and leisure, to engage in play and recreational activities appropriate to the age of the child and to participate freely in cultural life and the arts.
This one made me almost laugh. We had no television. We had no crafts. We had a small amount of “outside time.” We had no access to music. Cultural life and the arts? Are you kidding me?
Article 32, Statement 1: States Parties recognize the right of the child to be protected from economic exploitation and from performing any work that is likely to be hazardous or to interfere with the child's education, or to be harmful to the child's health or physical, mental, spiritual, moral or social development.
Cleaning up another person’s shit smeared all over the walls and floors of an isolation room with inadequate cleaning materials was certainly hazardous to our health.
Article 37b: (b) No child shall be deprived of his or her liberty unlawfully or arbitrarily. The arrest, detention or imprisonment of a child shall be in conformity with the law and shall be used only as a measure of last resort and for the shortest appropriate period of time;
For many children, our imprisonment in Three Springs was not a measure of last resort, and no one was there for the shortest appropriate period of time. Years in a locked treatment facility is not the shortest appropriate period of time for any adolescent who has not committed a crime.
Article 37c: (c) Every child deprived of liberty shall be treated with humanity and respect for the inherent dignity of the human person, and in a manner which takes into account the needs of persons of his or her age. In particular, every child deprived of liberty shall be separated from adults unless it is considered in the child's best interest not to do so and shall have the right to maintain contact with his or her family through correspondence and visits, save in exceptional circumstances;
Visits and correspondence were “privileges” that could be taken away, rather than rights that were upheld.
Article 37d: (d) Every child deprived of his or her liberty shall have the right to prompt access to legal and other appropriate assistance, as well as the right to challenge the legality of the deprivation of his or her liberty before a court or other competent, independent and impartial authority, and to a prompt decision on any such action.
I did not have the ability to contact my lawyer, as the communication restrictions were in place. Theoretically, if she had contacted me, I could have had uncensored communication with her, but that never happened. My inability to contact her violated this right.
Article 39: States Parties shall take all appropriate measures to promote physical and psychological recovery and social reintegration of a child victim of: any form of neglect, exploitation, or abuse; torture or any other form of cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment; or armed conflicts. Such recovery and reintegration shall take place in an environment which fosters the health, self-respect and dignity of the child.
Most of the children placed at Three Springs had already been victims of sexual violence, or physical violence or neglect in the home. For us to receive more abuse from the people that were supposed to be protecting us damaged so many of us. When children are abused by people who claim to be acting in the interests of psychology, they impede the future ability of those children to seek and receive appropriate psychological help. This is, to me, the saddest way our rights were violated.
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Apparently Danny is still impotent on being able to substaniate any of his claims. We should wish him luck and get back on topic till he sobers up.
Hedge's post is an accurate description of what programs are like today.
Do any of you pro child abuse posters feel that any of things Hedge mentioned aren't abusive?
Restricing food, censoring communication, "take downs" confrontational therapy. Is any of theraputic?
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Good news everyone! I found my program journal.
Let's dig in!
It hurts to see or hear other kids being physically and verbally abused for little or no reason by staff and junior staff alike. Today an apple was thrown so hard at a boy it exploded on contact. I laughed then, I feel terrible now. Abuse is extremely often. I have not experienced this personally, only observed.
I have not said anything about it to anyone and I am not sure what the policy is. I need someone to talk to about this who is not desensitized to it.
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Today is my fourth day. I am not used to this place and I hope I never am.
Thing that happened to other people today: A boy was wrestled to the ground by "fathers." A mattress was thrown on top of him. They took turns jumping up and down on him as hard as they could.
A boy was told by a "family" "father" that he could either be "crucified" or have his "ass kicked." Everybody went to watch as he was lifted into the air by his underpants. His face turned red and his eyes watered. He screamed. The higher ranking boys helped both fathers lift the back of his underwear over the post on the top bunk. When he failed to break through them the boys and the "fathers" pulled on his legs until he did. Thinking it was over, he began to walk away. The "family father" knocked him on the floor and grabbed his ankles. He was dragged back and forth across the length of the cabin (carpeted) several times. Everybody laughed.
A boy was punched in the stomach and kneed hard in the balls by a "family father".
A "family father" spent the day tripping and shoving our lines while we stood on solid ice.
I did not see this next event because I turned my head, I heard it, though...
A "Family father" picked up a block of ice and threatened the group with it - I don't remember why. A boy was singled out. He tried to cover himself I think. I saw the "father" throw the block and heard it make impact. Many laugh. I heard "I felt that one" and "I hope you weren't planning on having kids."
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The first time any of the fathers touched me was today. I think he was mostly just testing the waters. I'm different from most kids here. He asked if there were snow or ice where I came from and whether or not people there "knew how to balance". After watching him kick people over all day I knew what was coming. I balanced my weight onto both feet and braced myself. He put his hand on my shoulder and kicked my left leg into my right. I slid a few feet but did not trip or fall. I didn't move or say anything. The "father" backed off and said nothing. The other present "father" said "You know he's got a gun in his basket, right?" The one who shoved me has said little to me since then.
--Something that happened as I was writing:
A "family father" grabbed onto the top bunk, jumped and swung into the bottom bunk with his foot. The boy in the bunk yelped. The boy on the top bunk said "I think you should use two." The "father" took his advice and did the same move but with more force and both feet.
I really need someone to talk to. I have pleaded for a therapist, physician, or non-"father" staff member. Three separate people have promised to put me in contact with one of these but nothing has come of it.
People here quickly run out of things to do and so they start drama just to pass the time. Our family rep helps out with this by holding "group". I haven't figured out how often he does this but he always puts people on the spot about private issues that don't even matter. He gives the person he's put on the spot a very short amount of time to say something, then allows absolutely anybody to attack him. Five or six people may stand up to criticize the person and the family rep reminds him not to be offended because this is "feedback" and not insults.
Yesterday he forced a boy to stand up and talk about whether he liked his Christmas and then whether or not he loved the father he'd never met and barely knew. Of course he didn't enjoy his Christmas (he was here). He couldn't answer about his father, because he simply didn't know him well enough.
Several people then stood up to challenge his statements. Not only was I shocked that they stood up but frightened that some day soon I would be treated in the same manner. Was it too hard for them to understand why he wouldn't enjoy Christmas if he had to spend it in the program? Could a cabin full of boys with varying family situations not put themselves in his place when it came to uncertainty about love or closeness? Most of all, why the hell were they even there? That kind of question is for a private conversation with a therapist who understands people a little bit better. Whether he loves his father is nobody's business but his own, and nobody should be allowed to criticize him for not liking to be forced to share with immature boys who would tear him to shreds over anything he said.
The objections were that he didn't seem like he "really wants to share", personal offense was taken to his less than fantastic Christmas, his fondness for books, and his seeming inability to decide whether or not he "hated" his father for not being a part of his life. No rebuttal is allowed because this is "feedback" and not "unnecessary and ridiculous insults" - time. Last I checked he wasn't asking for feedback of any kind.
This happens every day to at least one person. Not enough happens in a day for anybody to have any real concerns.
Boy who is fingering and pulling his nipples and "mantits": "Hahaha yeah.. one time [a "family father] picked me up by them."
I have pages and pages of this stuff but I think this will be enough fun for now. Obviously I know a lot more about the program now. It's cute to see it through my innocent little eyes at the time. Can't go back to there again, can I? At one point all of this was actually shocking to me.
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Where were you detained? This place sounds horrible.
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Where were you detained? This place sounds horrible.
Spring Creek Lodge Academy
I don't think you can stuff a cabin full with 25 boys with emotional problems and 2 big ex-drug addict man children and be surprised when any of this happens. Of course, the contract my parents signed states the school is NOT responsible for staff behavior when the staff act outside of the stated rules. Beating up kids was basically just how they passed the time. They weren't trying to really hurt anyone - they just thought it was funny to run into a cabin with a meter stick, order everyone onto their bunks, and dole out the punishment. Same thing with the apples. A snack each night was part of the program. So they gave us the apples, but why just hand them out when you could throw them as hard as you are capable of at their heads? See if they can catch 'em! If not, well, better luck tomorrow. Dodged apples all over the walls? No problem, just make the kids clean it up.
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Spring Creek, wasn't that one of Whooters "safe and helpful" programs?
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Oops, sorry all. The three schools Whooter recommended as "safe and helpful" were;
Swift River Academy; http://cafety.org/index2.php?option=com ... f=1&id=279 (http://cafety.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=279)
Aspen Ranch; http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm)
School of Urban Wilderness Survival; http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/Suws.htm (http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/Suws.htm)
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Oops, sorry all. The three schools Whooter recommended as "safe and helpful" were;
Swift River Academy; http://cafety.org/index2.php?option=com ... f=1&id=279 (http://cafety.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=279)
Aspen Ranch; http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm)
School of Urban Wilderness Survival; http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/Suws.htm (http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/Suws.htm)
Thank you for posting this disturbing factual information about the so-called "safe" programs, Shadyacres.
It is well known that the Aspen Education Group programs are some of the worst in operation. Their facility Mount Bachelor Academy was shut down for systemic child abuse last year by Oregon DHS authorities. Aspen has had many abuse problems and several negligent deaths at their facilities (e.g. Sagewalk - shut down after killing a child last year). Parents would do well to avoid AEG programs which are proven to be abusive and deadly.
Not sure why anyone would call those programs "safe." Maybe the recommender has a financial interest in those dangerous programs? Anybody know?
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Oops, sorry all. The three schools Whooter recommended as "safe and helpful" were;
Swift River Academy; http://cafety.org/index2.php?option=com ... f=1&id=279 (http://cafety.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=279)
Aspen Ranch; http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm)
School of Urban Wilderness Survival; http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/Suws.htm (http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/Suws.htm)
Thanks ShadyAcres, I didnt think I had mentioned Spring Creek. but I could find where I had posted the original list. Swift River I have personal knowledge of. The others I posted from info I have received elsewhere.
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Some facts about ASR (Swift River):
It (OCCS) cited the school for "using behavior management techniques which subject students to verbal abuse, ridicule and humiliation, denial of sufficient sleep, and repetitive exercise as a response to an infraction of a rule."
OCCS also cited the school for monitoring students' telephone calls and mail. The agency said that the right to privacy in communications, even for juveniles, can be restricted only by court order -- for example, if a therapist believes that the teen's communication should be monitored, perhaps to support a young person through a crisis in relations with his or her family -- and then only temporarily.
The citation struck at another bone of contention between the state and ASR. A few months ago OCCS found itself at odds with ASR over whether the school needs to be licensed in Massachusetts as a treatment center, something College Health Enterprises had not done. ASR officials seemed to be having it both ways by enforcing rules usually associated withtreatment programs for people with emotional or behavioral disorders, but refusing to have the school licensed as a treatment center
Wow. Unlicensed, abusive, neglectful, illegal curtailing of communication and censorship of US mail, etc ...Sounds exactly like Straight and all the other old school abuse factories. Nothing ever changes in this industry.
Swift River looks like the typical Aspen "teen abuse center" according to the documentation.
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Some facts about ASR (Swift River):
It (OCCS) cited the school for "using behavior management techniques which subject students to verbal abuse, ridicule and humiliation, denial of sufficient sleep, and repetitive exercise as a response to an infraction of a rule."
OCCS also cited the school for monitoring students' telephone calls and mail. The agency said that the right to privacy in communications, even for juveniles, can be restricted only by court order -- for example, if a therapist believes that the teen's communication should be monitored, perhaps to support a young person through a crisis in relations with his or her family -- and then only temporarily.
The citation struck at another bone of contention between the state and ASR. A few months ago OCCS found itself at odds with ASR over whether the school needs to be licensed in Massachusetts as a treatment center, something College Health Enterprises had not done. ASR officials seemed to be having it both ways by enforcing rules usually associated withtreatment programs for people with emotional or behavioral disorders, but refusing to have the school licensed as a treatment center
Wow. Unlicensed, abusive, neglectful, illegal curtailing of communication and censorship of US mail, etc ...Sounds exactly like Straight and all the other old school abuse factories. Nothing ever changes in this industry.
Swift River looks like the typical Aspen "teen abuse center" according to the documentation.
It makes it easier for us readers if you provide links. Not sure where this comes from or what period of time you are speaking from.
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It's an article about ASR. I'm sure any reader would have no trouble finding it. It has been posted here and elsewhere dozens of times.
ASR is just like the old school, abusive, unlicensed facilities upon which it was based, according to the article. It says ASR was cited by state authorities for depriving kids of food and sleep and for using abusive behavior modification techniques as well as denying them communication with family and illegally withholding their US mail, which is a crime. It also says ASR is an unlicesned treatment center.
Pretty ugly depiction, huh? I was shocked, too. That poster who said this was a "good, safe" program must not have read the reports or maybe doesn't understand that what ASR does is illegal.
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Oops, sorry all. The three schools Whooter recommended as "safe and helpful" were;
Swift River Academy; http://cafety.org/index2.php?option=com ... f=1&id=279 (http://cafety.org/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=279)
Aspen Ranch; http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm (http://www.heal-online.org/aspenranch.htm)
School of Urban Wilderness Survival; http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/Suws.htm (http://www.secretprisonsforteens.dk/US/Suws.htm)
Thank you for posting this disturbing factual information about the so-called "safe" programs, Shadyacres.
It is well known that the Aspen Education Group programs are some of the worst in operation. Their facility Mount Bachelor Academy was shut down for systemic child abuse last year by Oregon DHS authorities. Aspen has had many abuse problems and several negligent deaths at their facilities (e.g. Sagewalk - shut down after killing a child last year). Parents would do well to avoid AEG programs which are proven to be abusive and deadly.
Not sure why anyone would call those programs "safe." Maybe the recommender has a financial interest in those dangerous programs? Anybody know?
Who and what are we basing this factual information on, one poster.
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Did you not see the links in Shadyacres' post? You can start there and there's lots of other information re: Aspen Education all over the web. Just do a search on "Aspen Education" and "abuse." You'll get lots of articles and reports showing that ASR and other Aspen programs are still using the same methods as Straight and CEDU (both closed for abuse) to name a few.
After you read up please let us know what you find about the abuses at Aspen Education facilities. There's a lot out there, but maybe you will find someting new. It seems like they are either getting charged with abuse or killing some poor kid every few months, according to the documentation already available.
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Who and what are we basing this factual information on, one poster.
Ummmm, from the post directly above yours. Were you dropped on your head as a chid?
Their facility Mount Bachelor Academy was shut down for systemic child abuse last year by Oregon DHS authorities. Aspen has had many abuse problems and several negligent deaths at their facilities (e.g. Sagewalk - shut down after killing a child last year).
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As a result of an intensive onsite investigation and audit of the school the OCCS reverses all previous statements and stands behind the Academy at Swift Rivers’ high standards of education and continuing cooperation with the State of Massachusetts and is in good standing. The Academy of Swift River is a fully accredited institution with an astounding record of placing 100% of its graduates at the college of their choice.
We could only hope that our public school system could duplicate their process and effort in providing the assistance and dedication to young people as they do.
Wow, Thats a big turn around. The OCCS fouond that sometimes it is better to review the school first hand instead of relying on hearsay. Its always good to look at the timelines, bad reviews can be deceptive.
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Wierd, I just did a Google search on the previous poster's "quotation" of OCCS and there was only one hit - the post he just wrote. Sadly, this poster felt the need to make up "evidence" in the absence of being able to refute what several investigations have shown.
Why is this poster fabricating information like this? He must have a financial stake in Aspen Education because that whole statement he just posted is pure fiction.
Lying doesn't help your cause. It only proves you have no facts upon which to base a valid argument. That's a pretty desperate move, IMHO.
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Who and what are we basing this factual information on, one poster.
Ummmm, from the post directly above yours. Were you dropped on your head as a chid?
Their facility Mount Bachelor Academy was shut down for systemic child abuse last year by Oregon DHS authorities. Aspen has had many abuse problems and several negligent deaths at their facilities (e.g. Sagewalk - shut down after killing a child last year).
I was talking about Thomas C, report. I thought Slim Shadys comments were in response to that.
I, was dropped on my head, ya noticed, awwwwwwwwwwww..blushing!!! :-[
Now, what the hell is your problem. :whip: :wall:......pick one????? :rofl:
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Who and what are we basing this factual information on, one poster.
Ummmm, from the post directly above yours. Were you dropped on your head as a chid?
Their facility Mount Bachelor Academy was shut down for systemic child abuse last year by Oregon DHS authorities. Aspen has had many abuse problems and several negligent deaths at their facilities (e.g. Sagewalk - shut down after killing a child last year).
I was talking about Thomas C, report. I thought Slim Shadys comments were in response to that.
I, was dropped on my head, ya noticed, awwwwwwwwwwww..blushing!!! :-[
Now, what the hell is your problem. :whip: :wall:......pick one????? :rofl:
I was put in Straight for two fucking years. :twofinger:
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Interesting...Danny, you asked me for sources when they were already posted, but this other guy "Whooter" just posted a completely fabricated "OCCS statement" and you didn't even ask him to account for its origin, which is his own head, BTW. I thought Danny was "anti abusive program" but he he supports the fallacious postings of "Whooter" who just openly lies.
In reading through "Whooter"'s posts, it seems like he has quite the reputation here for being "a liar" and having "financial ties to Aspen Education Group," as I suspected he did. Did you know he was just making up stuff to cover for abusive programs, Danny? Where's the accountability for these lies? Shouldn't Fornits hold his feet to the fire for making up these ficticious "reports"?
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Who and what are we basing this factual information on, one poster.
Ummmm, from the post directly above yours. Were you dropped on your head as a chid?
Their facility Mount Bachelor Academy was shut down for systemic child abuse last year by Oregon DHS authorities. Aspen has had many abuse problems and several negligent deaths at their facilities (e.g. Sagewalk - shut down after killing a child last year).
I was talking about Thomas C, report. I thought Slim Shadys comments were in response to that.
I, was dropped on my head, ya noticed, awwwwwwwwwwww..blushing!!! :-[
Now, what the hell is your problem. :whip: :wall:......pick one????? :rofl:
I was put in Straight for two fucking years. :twofinger:
Yeah, your still the head cheer leader and valedictorian 30 years later, Straight is not your problem Anne.
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Wierd, I just did a Google search on the previous poster's "quotation" of OCCS and there was only one hit - the post he just wrote. Sadly, this poster felt the need to make up "evidence" in the absence of being able to refute what several investigations have shown.
Why is this poster fabricating information like this? He must have a financial stake in Aspen Education because that whole statement he just posted is pure fiction.
Lying doesn't help your cause. It only proves you have no facts upon which to base a valid argument. That's a pretty desperate move, IMHO.
I couldnt find this one either, maybe it is the OCCS or something. Hmmm...
It (OCCS) cited the school for "using behavior management techniques which subject students to verbal abuse, ridicule and humiliation, denial of sufficient sleep, and repetitive exercise as a response to an infraction of a rule."
OCCS also cited the school for monitoring students' telephone calls and mail. The agency said that the right to privacy in communications, even for juveniles, can be restricted only by court order -- for example, if a therapist believes that the teen's communication should be monitored, perhaps to support a young person through a crisis in relations with his or her family -- and then only temporarily.
The citation struck at another bone of contention between the state and ASR. A few months ago OCCS found itself at odds with ASR over whether the school needs to be licensed in Massachusetts as a treatment center, something College Health Enterprises had not done. ASR officials seemed to be having it both ways by enforcing rules usually associated withtreatment programs for people with emotional or behavioral disorders, but refusing to have the school licensed as a treatment center
But from the wording I would assume they are in the same thread and together they make sense:
As a result of an intensive onsite investigation and audit of the school the OCCS reverses all previous statements and stands behind the Academy at Swift Rivers’ high standards of education and continuing cooperation with the State of Massachusetts and is in good standing. The Academy of Swift River is a fully accredited institution with an astounding record of placing 100% of its graduates at the college of their choice.
We could only hope that our public school system could duplicate their process and effort in providing the assistance and dedication to young people as they do.
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No, you just made that statement up. Why would you lie like that to promote child abuse?
The article I quoted was already sourced in this thread by Shadyacres ( I quoted directly from his citation) and none of what you wrote was in it. In fact, nothing you wrote exists on the internet anywhere except your post. Why did you fabricate that false information about ASR?
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Who and what are we basing this factual information on, one poster.
Ummmm, from the post directly above yours. Were you dropped on your head as a chid?
Their facility Mount Bachelor Academy was shut down for systemic child abuse last year by Oregon DHS authorities. Aspen has had many abuse problems and several negligent deaths at their facilities (e.g. Sagewalk - shut down after killing a child last year).
I was talking about Thomas C, report. I thought Slim Shadys comments were in response to that.
I, was dropped on my head, ya noticed, awwwwwwwwwwww..blushing!!! :-[
Now, what the hell is your problem. :whip: :wall:......pick one????? :rofl:
I was put in Straight for two fucking years. :twofinger:
Yeah, your still the head cheer leader and valedictorian 30 years later, Straight is not your problem Anne.
No, I just don't want anyone else to go thru what I had to endure.
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When I was in a program, kids were prevented from having any contact whatsoever with their families until the staff approved of it. Some kids went months and even years without having an unmonitored conversation with their parents. I consider this to be very abusive. It is my understanding that similar methods are used in many teen treatment facilities today.
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When I was in a program, kids were prevented from having any contact whatsoever with their families until the staff approved of it. Some kids went months and even years without having an unmonitored conversation with their parents. I consider this to be very abusive. It is my understanding that similar methods are used in many teen treatment facilities today.
Yes, this is how it was in my program and every other I've heard of. The first phone call took at least 3 months and a graduation to "level 3", which required attending at least 1 Lifesprings-style seminar. All of them were monitored, of course, and disconnected if students were to practice any "manipulation". They lasted 15 minutes and took place every two months to once a week on upper levels. Of course, any time you did a level drop it would mean a loss in phone priveleges as well until you could earn those points back. A very clever system for denying communication. "Really, it's just so they can focus on the program instead of trying to manipulate you into getting out." You can break someone's will in 3 months easily under those conditions.
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When I was in a program, kids were prevented from having any contact whatsoever with their families until the staff approved of it. Some kids went months and even years without having an unmonitored conversation with their parents. I consider this to be very abusive. It is my understanding that similar methods are used in many teen treatment facilities today.
I remember that there was one kid who didn’t have any contact with his father at all. It turned out that his father was abusive towards him. They tried working with the father, I guess, but it didn’t work too well.
I think sometimes not being able to see certain friends or family members is done for a good reason. I am not saying this is the case with your experience, but I just happen to remember that when I read your post. The same goes for receiving letters and packages.
At ASR the kids went thru a wilderness program and had no contact with their families until they reached the main campus. The family contact was not held out as a reward. It occurred every week while the child was on campus.
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So according to Whoot the kids in programs are denied contact with their families to prevent them from being abused by their family members? What?
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So according to Whoot the kids in programs are denied contact with their families to prevent them from being abused by their family members? What?
Well, Shaggys, you seem to following some other posters passion to misrepresent what I say.
Lets say that a child has been abused by their Uncle Chucky. This child has been placed into a program and is undergoing therapy and this information comes to light. It may be suggested that contact with this family member should be suspended.
I dont think cutting off communication with this family member would be abusive to the child, in fact it would be abusive to allow this child contact with the Uncle. Think along the same lines as friends sending in packages. I think we can all agree that as a minimum the packages should be searched or opened in front of staff.
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And what if a child feels the need to report abuse to their parents, but program staff will not allow it. Isn't that in itself abusive? If these programs truly had nothing to hide they would allow open communication between parents and children.
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And what if a child feels the need to report abuse to their parents, but program staff will not allow it. Isn't that in itself abusive? If these programs truly had nothing to hide they would allow open communication between parents and children.
Programs do allow open communication between parents and child. There is typically at least one parent or family member that the child can speak to on a weekly basis.
There is a misconception circulating here on fornits that programs don't allow this communication. but it is not true.
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And what if a child feels the need to report abuse to their parents, but program staff will not allow it. Isn't that in itself abusive? If these programs truly had nothing to hide they would allow open communication between parents and children.
Programs do allow open communication between parents and child. There is typically at least one parent or family member that the child can speak to on a weekly basis.
There is a misconception circulating here on fornits that programs don't allow this communication. but it is not true.
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Fifteen minutes a week with the "counselor" sitting right next to them to do what Whooter does here, spin. The "counselors" are right there to hear everything they say to their parents. The child's abusers are right there, while the child is trying to explain the abuse to his parents, poking holes in everything the child says and attacking the child's credibility. Then of course, when the "counselor" assures the parent that there is no "abuse" and the parent goes home, then the living hell that has become the child's life gets even worse. Open communication? I think not.
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And what if a child feels the need to report abuse to their parents, but program staff will not allow it. Isn't that in itself abusive? If these programs truly had nothing to hide they would allow open communication between parents and children.
Programs do allow open communication between parents and child. There is typically at least one parent or family member that the child can speak to on a weekly basis.
There is a misconception circulating here on fornits that programs don't allow this communication. but it is not true.
Fifteen minutes a week with the "counselor" sitting right next to them to do what Whooter does here, spin. The "counselors" are right there to hear everything they say to their parents. The child's abusers are right there, while the child is trying to explain the abuse to his parents, poking holes in everything the child says and attacking the child's credibility. Then of course, when the "counselor" assures the parent that there is no "abuse" and the parent goes home, then the living hell that has become the child's life gets even worse. Open communication? I think not.
:notworthy: :tup: :tup:
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And what if a child feels the need to report abuse to their parents, but program staff will not allow it. Isn't that in itself abusive? If these programs truly had nothing to hide they would allow open communication between parents and children.
Programs do allow open communication between parents and child. There is typically at least one parent or family member that the child can speak to on a weekly basis.
There is a misconception circulating here on fornits that programs don't allow this communication. but it is not true.
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Fifteen minutes a week with the "counselor" sitting right next to them to do what Whooter does here, spin. The "counselors" are right there to hear everything they say to their parents. The child's abusers are right there, while the child is trying to explain the abuse to his parents, poking holes in everything the child says and attacking the child's credibility. Then of course, when the "counselor" assures the parent that there is no "abuse" and the parent goes home, then the living hell that has become the child's life gets even worse. Open communication? I think not.
I would agree with you that if that did occur then it would not be considered open communication. What I am referring to is the child being able to speak to their parents privately and have a back and forth without staff involved. This is the experience that I have seen in programs. Those program which restrict a childs phones conversation (as you described) would not be considered open communication in my opinion.
What typically works is if the parents speak up during their periodic meetings with school staff and indicate that they would like certain changes made to the program. Eventually the program will get the message as it did in our case at ASR when we asked for changes to be made.
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I would agree with you that if that did occur then it would not be considered open communication. What I am referring to is the child being able to speak to their parents privately and have a back and forth without staff involved. This is the experience that I have seen in programs. Those program which restrict a childs phones conversation (as you described) would not be considered open communication in my opinion.
What typically works is if the parents speak up during their periodic meetings with school staff and indicate that they would like certain changes made to the program. Eventually the program will get the message as it did in our case at ASR when we asked for changes to be made.
The experience you have seen in programs? No John, you have no experience in programs. At least until you start being honest that is. That's got to really burn you up. You know you actually would be able to speak from a place of experience if only you could tell the truth about who you are. Until then you can't. Unless of course you want to try and claim that in the half an hour you spent on the guided tour at your make believe daughters program that they somehow allowed you witness kids private phone calls.
The fact of the matter is that the policy in these programs is that all communication between parent and child is restricted, and it is abusive.
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Shady's description of calls were the same for CEDU. Except it was every two weeks. Phones were locked in an office; a staff member sat beside you. You were not free to talk openly.If you even said something slightly negative, you'd never make that mistake again.
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Shady's description of calls were the same for CEDU. Except it was every two weeks. Phones were locked in an office; a staff member sat beside you. You were not free to talk openly.If you even said something slightly negative, you'd never make that mistake again.
It would be great if we could get all that behind us. I dont think CEDU will be around very much longer unless they start allowing more open communication with the family like many of the other programs do. I wouldnt judge all programs based on your experience at CEDU, just like we cant compare todays programs with the process they used at programs like straight.
On a positive note communication has greatly improved over the past 30 years so at least these places are heading in the right direction. They may not be moving fast enough, I agree, but they are improving.
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In what ways John? We've already proven the communication policy hasn't changed at all between HLA 14 years ago, and RC today.
So what's changed?
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Shady's description of calls were the same for CEDU. Except it was every two weeks. Phones were locked in an office; a staff member sat beside you. You were not free to talk openly.If you even said something slightly negative, you'd never make that mistake again.
I haven't seen this censoring of communication described yet in the thread "How Was Compliance Gained?" Would you mind coming over to that thread and detailing how the communication was controlled as a means of controlling you?
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I saw many terrible abuses while incarcerated at Straight inc in the 80's. It is my understanding that many of these same practices still exist in one form or another in programs that are currently operating. I want to invite victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate. Apparently there are people who don't believe abuse happens in these places. Feel free to tell them about it here.
Me first. While incarcerated at Straight inc I saw children denied the privlege of sleeping. Newcomers would be kept awake for days on end sometimes to break them down mentally and physically. Just one of many many abuses I witnessed firsthand while I was there.
Folks lets give this thread another shot. Shaggy has invited victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate. That is the topic and not program improvements.
It would also be helpful to the readers if the poster would provide a time period to the abuses that you saw and the name of the program. This way we can see if the practices still affect children in programs today.
i.e. Straight 1978.
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I saw many terrible abuses while incarcerated at Straight inc in the 80's. It is my understanding that many of these same practices still exist in one form or another in programs that are currently operating. I want to invite victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate. Apparently there are people who don't believe abuse happens in these places. Feel free to tell them about it here.
Me first. While incarcerated at Straight inc I saw children denied the privlege of sleeping. Newcomers would be kept awake for days on end sometimes to break them down mentally and physically. Just one of many many abuses I witnessed firsthand while I was there.
Folks lets give this thread another shot. Shaggy has invited victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate. That is the topic and not program improvements.
It would also be helpful to the readers if the poster would provide a time period to the abuses that you saw and the name of the program. This way we can see if the practices still affect children in programs today.
How?
i.e. Straight 1978.
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I do not see your logic. Do you mean that because my experience in an abusive program happened 25 years ago, today's programs cannot possibly be abusive? Please explain this.
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I saw many terrible abuses while incarcerated at Straight inc in the 80's. It is my understanding that many of these same practices still exist in one form or another in programs that are currently operating. I want to invite victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate. Apparently there are people who don't believe abuse happens in these places. Feel free to tell them about it here.
Me first. While incarcerated at Straight inc I saw children denied the privlege of sleeping. Newcomers would be kept awake for days on end sometimes to break them down mentally and physically. Just one of many many abuses I witnessed firsthand while I was there.
Folks lets give this thread another shot. Shaggy has invited victims of abuse to post something about abuse they personally endured or abuse they saw perpetrated on another inmate. That is the topic and not program improvements.
It would also be helpful to the readers if the poster would provide a time period to the abuses that you saw and the name of the program. This way we can see if the practices still affect children in programs today.
How?
i.e. Straight 1978.
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I do not see your logic. Do you mean that because my experience in an abusive program happened 25 years ago, today's programs cannot possibly be abusive? Please explain this.
Not at all Shady, I didnt mean that. Shaggy indicated that he wanted everyone to share their experiences and said that he thought many of these practices still occurred today. If we put a time stamp on the individual experiences we could see when they occurred. If we compare the experiences of long ago with those of today we can help answer shaggys question of whether these practices still occur today or not and/or compare similarities.
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Lets say that 5 posters post that they were placed in isolation for violating a major rule. If there were no time stamps then we really wouldn’t know if these practices still occur today.
Lets say that the time stamps indicate the following:
1) 1978
2) 1982
3) 1998
4) 2007
5) 1981
We could conclude that this specific practice is still in use today (as late as 2007) and would satisfy Shaggys original statement. Without the time stamp we may never know if these practices are current or not. Do you see what I mean? I think it would help.
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